December 3, 2024 • 54 mins
Discover how heart rate variability (HRV) can transform your health and longevity with Dr. Torkil Færø, physician and author of The Pulse Cure. Learn how wearable tech like Garmin, Whoop, and Oura can help optimize fitness, recovery, and stress management.
Dr. Færø shares actionable insights on smarter training methods like Zone 2 training, the impact of diet on HRV, and the importance of whole foods. Plus, get a sneak peek at his upcoming book on sun exposure.
Join us to explore the future of wellness and the power of HRV in living a healthier, longer life.
Connect with Dr. Færø:
https://www.instagram.com/dr.torkil/
https://pulskuren.no/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to the Primal Foundations podcast.
I'm your host, tony Pascola.
We will dive into what Ibelieve are the four central
foundations you need for ahealthy lifestyle Strength,
nutrition, movement and recovery.
Get ready to unlock your pathto optimal health and enjoy the
episode.
Today's guest is Torkel Farrell.
(00:27):
Torkel is a Norwegian physicianand author of the bestseller
the Pulse Cure, which focuses onheart rate variability and the
correlation to health.
Torkel, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Tony, it's great to be here.
It's wonderful to have you on.
I'm excited and intrigued totalk about some heart rate
variability.
Are you coming to us fromNorway this morning?
Speaker 2 (00:48):
That's right, that's right.
So here is almost evening time.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
It's almost evening, it's about eight in the morning
out in Chicago.
Here All right.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Yeah, it's cool that we can talk and there's no delay
in as we were talking anddiscussing just a fantastic tool
to be able to do this.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Yeah, yeah, it's been great and I'm sure, with you
know, promoting the book andreaching different audiences is
and this is what I love to dothe podcast, because it's like a
grassroots version of you knowgetting some information out
that some people might not evenhave access to and then for the
listeners, can you, can you giveus some background on how you
found yourself in medicine andwhat was your motivation to
write the Pulse Cure?
Speaker 2 (01:29):
How I found myself in medicine.
That was actually to be able totravel the world and see the
world, because in Norway you canwork part-time, you can take
two weeks here and two weeksthere and work and then go off
traveling.
So my initial motivation behindbecoming a doctor was actually
to see the world and to have afree life.
You know, but 10 years ago myfather died, and he died from a
(01:55):
well lifestyle related diseasethat that most diseases are
these days, and I could see thatif I continued my lifestyle
because I've done all themistakes in my own book I would
probably not live to see 80years old, and I would want to
live as long as possible.
So then I understood I have tochange my lifestyle around
(02:16):
totally.
And as I did that, I found outthat using heart rate
variability, using the rhythm ofthe heart, can guide you
towards the right choices,because when you do the right
choices it will improve yourheart rate variability, and if
you do the wrong choices that Iwas a master at, you will also
(02:37):
see that in your heart ratevariability, and so it's a
magnificent tool.
You know that probably you andmost of your listeners will
already have on their wrist, andthey may not be aware of the
possibility that exists in usingthe heart rate to monitor your
lifestyle.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
And then, for those that are unfamiliar with the
book the Pulse Cure, can youexplain what HRV is and why
that's a good metric for health?
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Yeah, so my book, the Pulse Cure, which has been a
bestseller in Norway now forclose to two years, is a book on
the best strategies forlifestyle and, combined with
using the variables to guide itand heart rate variability, will
(03:28):
see how your autonomic nervoussystem works, how your stress
balance, if it's good enough, ifit's sustainable and compatible
with health over time.
So we need to stress and we needto put loads on our body, you
know, to become stronger andmore fit, but we also need to
stress and we need to put loadson our body, you know, to become
stronger and more fit, but wealso need to recover properly
(03:49):
and many athletes and manypeople in general they are
under-recovered.
There's not enough focus on thedown state, on relaxing, on
sleeping, on recovering afterexercise or after life stress in
total.
And the way the heartbeat canshow that and reveal the state
(04:11):
of our stress balance is that ifwe are in the relaxed mode,
then the heart rate will have avariation between the heartbeats
.
When we breathe in and there'smore oxygen in the lungs, the
heart rate will go up a littlebit, and when we breathe out and
there's less oxygen in thelungs, the heart will allow
(04:31):
itself, so to speak, to relax alittle bit.
Measured in milliseconds,hardly detectable, but if you're
in a really calm mode you canfeel it yourself with your pulse
and your corroded artery.
But if you're in the stressstate, then your heart will beat
like a metronome, regardless ofyour breathing in or out.
It will just beat at a verysteady pace.
(04:52):
And this is how the wearablescan detect your stress balance
and measure it in the moment andthroughout the day and night,
while you're busy living yourlife, and it can tell you so
much about the load on yoursystem, your ability to have a
flexible nervous system to beable to calm down and also to
(05:13):
stress when you need to we hearall the times of like we were
talking about my garmin earlier.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
You know there's different wearables that you're
hearing the who, whoop, aura,things like that.
Which brand or style do yourecommend for people?
Is it specific, like athletesshould kind of get this, or this
is good for just average people?
Speaker 2 (05:37):
I think for most people, garmin watches are the
best, like the one you have.
Your version is a bit old, sothere's a lot of new things
about it that is, uh, hasimproved a lot.
Your watch is probably four orfive years old, I'll guess, and
so garmin, for most people, isby far the best choice and also
the the cheaper option often.
(05:59):
But you can also use the whoopband, as you mentioned mentioned
, and the Aura Ring, and theApple Watch and almost all of
the modern smartwatches willhave some kind of system that
will tell you about your stressbalance.
But Garmin is by far the bestone as it will show you the
stress level in the moment andthroughout the day in very
(06:23):
useful graphs.
But it also depends, you know.
Garment is the best to kind ofmicromanage your stress levels.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
If you just want to have like glimpses into your,
the state of your physiology,then it might be a whoop band or
or a ring will be good enoughand for do you recommend for
athletes that they have, ifthey're doing training, let's
say like endurance endeavors,the chest strap, because I know
a lot of people recommend havingthe chest strap versus yes,
(06:56):
this does also do that, you know, on the wrist, but is there a
difference if you're working outof your heart rate variability?
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Yeah, the chest strap .
If you do some vigorousactivity, you know, like running
or tennis or racket sports orwhatever, then it's best to have
the chest strap absolutely.
But often I forget it and thenI can see that at least my new
garmin watch will will be dopretty much the same job, but
(07:23):
you're more certain to have theright result with a chest strap.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
HRV.
What number is a good numberfor somebody, and does that
differ between male and female?
Speaker 2 (07:38):
There will be minor differences between male and
female.
It's not so it will not be suchMaybe one or two, three
milliseconds in a difference onon the averages, and there's
kind of a 50 percent geneticcomponent to it.
So you shouldn't really compareyour HRV to anyone else's
because it will not necessarilylike if you have a low one that
(08:02):
you could consider having like25 milliseconds, which would be
normally considered a low onefor your age.
Then another person that mayhave 50 or 60 could have exactly
the same objective health levelbecause of this genetic
component.
The most important thing is tofind out how good can you get
(08:24):
your heart rate variabilityunder the perfect circumstances
and just compare yourself toyourself, really Okay.
And I would say we talked aboutthe chest strap and the most
important thing for athletes.
They often focus too much ontheir heart rate during training
, but I would say that the mostimportant thing is how your
(08:45):
heart rate reacts after thesession.
That will tell you more abouthow well you tolerated that
session than the heart rate initself or even your resting
heart rate.
You could, you could have thesame resting heart rate at night
, you know.
Say that you have, for example,45 in the resting heart rate.
But your heart rate variability, as a measure of whether you
(09:06):
are over trained or not, can canbe kind of double or or half
the value you know.
So it's um.
I often say it's like watchingyour heart rate with a
magnifying glass.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
So so the heart rate variability will tell you so
much more for an athlete yeah,and you you've talked about this
before of almost like gamifying, or gamification of your life
and in your training yeah, yeah,absolutely.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
So.
It becomes kind of a game whereyou suddenly have a like a
dashboard to your own physiology, just like you have in your car
.
You know, and, uh, and you haveall these different things.
You know that, uh, thattechnology can get out of your
movement, from your pulse, fromyour sleep, from your
temperature and all of this anduse artificial intelligence and
(09:50):
can tell you so much more, andit will just probably just you
know escalate in the comingyears as well.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
You know when we go into the doctor's office, you
know the traditional methods ofassessing.
You're looking at, you know ablood pressure or just a?
You're just beats per minute.
You know on the monitor Is HRVsuperior, not?
Are they all kind of the same,giving you kind of the same
exact idea?
Speaker 2 (10:20):
I would say that HRV is superior.
Or, of course, if you have a badblood pressure, if your blood
pressure is too high, it mayabsolutely be more dangerous,
but it would also.
I don't think that you wouldhave a high blood pressure
without also having a low HRV,so those would be connected in
(10:43):
somewhat.
But the good thing about heartrate variability is that you
have this number on your wrist,available at all times, and you
have it.
You know, not the doctor.
You don't have to wait and paythe doctor to see the results.
You have them on your wrist atall times.
So you have the control and yourheart rate variability will
(11:03):
tell you a lot about your riskof contracting any kind of
disease, any kind of lifestyledisease.
That includes heart disease andcancer and autoimmune diseases
and so many other diseases thatwe struggle with.
So if you have a good heartrate variability that is a sign
that your immune system isworking smoothly and that you
(11:25):
have a good physiology then yourrisk of getting a disease is a
lot less.
You know, as you probably know,that just if you're exercising
a certain amount a week, youreduce your chances of getting
cancer and heart disease.
You know by a lot.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
That number that's attached to me it gives.
It's also empowering right.
If I, if this is the numberthat I'm looking for, I'm going
to be doing my day to daylooking at that number and also,
like we, we talk aboutpreventive care, a lot and
lifestyle choices.
Like you were mentioning,there's a lot of diseases that
are caused by just lifestyle ingeneral.
(12:03):
Going into that, let's justtalk about, you know, physical
activity at first.
You know what types of physicalactivity or training should we
be doing to improve our HRV?
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Well, the optimal for longevity.
That seems to be record sports.
I don't know the reason forthat.
It's probably that it involvesa lot of you know, speed, you
know changing directions,cooperating with another person,
obviously, and that is bothkind of explosive.
(12:34):
And then it's also enduranceand so on technique, you know
coordination.
So racquet sport seems to bethe best one for health and
longevity.
But for hrv I would say thatwould be probably any endurance,
uh, sport you know, like likerunning, like cardio, like high
intensity training and so on,and and anything is a lot better
(12:58):
than nothing, and you don't.
The worst thing is to be in thatlowest 25% of VO2 max, because
we can also probably compare itto the VO2 max.
It's probably a better numberto watch than the heart rate
variability number in itself.
So to have among the lowest VO2max levels that you can also
(13:19):
get from your Garmin, you know,and an Apple watch and so on, to
be in the lowest quarter, thelowest 25%, that is, those are
the ones who get sick.
Once you get to the 50% andmore, then it doesn't really
matter so much whether you're onthe 50% or among the 5% best
VO2 max.
The difference in health leveland longevity is not so big, so
(13:44):
you don't really have tostruggle very hard and use 10
hours a week to improve your VO2max to live longer.
You may, of course, do it torun faster and win the game, you
know, but for longevity, beingthere in the middle is good
enough, I would say.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
I've also heard about racket sports and squash and
tennis and how those arecorrelated with some of the one
of the best options for beinghealthy for lifespan.
But I think it is because youknow you do a little bit of
sprinting and you recover alittle bit, and then you sprint
a little bit, then you recoverand you're also out there.
(14:23):
It's something you're going todo a lot.
You're going to do it becauseyou're having fun as well.
We always like think of fitnessand training as like it's got
to be this intense, like reallyhard workout or exercising, but
it could just be fun.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Yeah, actually, you know, tennis would obviously be
more fun also.
And you have this, as you say,you sprint and then you pause,
and then there's a lot of pauses, and actually the best tennis
players are the ones who canlower their heart rate between
the balls so that they areexperts at calming themselves
down, you know, before the nextstrike, or whatever you call it
(15:02):
in tennis next strike orwhatever you call it in tennis
how much?
Speaker 1 (15:08):
because I know when, when people see these numbers
and they people can really getinto data and and the metrics of
things and they start to addmore to their lifestyle and
their day-to-day, you know howmuch working out is is too much.
Because I feel like there is anopposite end to this where
people are actually overdoing it.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Yeah, absolutely, and they may not necessarily overdo
it, but they would underrecover.
So I think that is a is moreprecise to say that.
But normally exercising morethan you know seven to 10 hours
a week is often connected toworse outcomes than not training
(15:47):
at all.
You may be training too much,it may be too hard a load on
your heart and on your system.
We don't have a physiology thatis constructed for those kind
of loads.
Really, really, if we put thesevariables on hunter gatherer
societies that still exist today, we see that they are in
moderate activity two or threehours a day.
(16:10):
They're walking maybe 15 000 to20 000 steps and occasionally
in between them they are arereally pushing their, their
forces, but most of the time isin moderate.
So actually there would be.
I think I'm rarely impressed bythe longevity of former athletes
(16:31):
.
It's not like when you seetheir obituaries that you think,
well, wow, he or she lived along life.
You know it's more often theopposite, that you're kind of
surprised that they didn't reach70 or 75 or whatever.
And from my clinical experience, the ones that live the longest
they have not been exercising,they have just been moving.
(16:52):
Naturally they have beenoutside, maybe gardening,
walking, maybe living in such aplace that they would need to
move.
Naturally, they've been eatingreal food you, you know and
having good relationships, andand these things that are are
more often connected tolongevity and the good health.
So it's not necessarily so thatthe more you push yourself and
(17:16):
the more you exercise, thebetter health will be the
outcome and I like how you hitthe other points of like
relationships.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Like this is a it's not just about the working out
we're going to get into somenutrition as well but that
holistic approach to health andwell-being versus I'm just going
to go to be going to the gymand that's going to take care of
all of my problems and withthat recovery we talked about a
little bit earlier.
You know, when my watch tellsme and that's why I get I don't
(17:46):
really know what to believe ofthe watch.
I know it's probably telling methe right things, but I'll do a
workout like a run four miles,five, whatever it might be and
then the recovery will show upat when I click the end button
and it'll say recovery 48 hours.
And I was like 48 hours I feltgood on that run.
Is that something that?
Is that just in the moment thatthe watch is calculating and
(18:09):
making an assumption, or is it?
Speaker 2 (18:11):
like from the whole day.
Yeah, yeah it.
It may be related.
So if you had a tough workoutthe day before, you know, that
maybe gave you 36 hours and youhave the next session before
those 36 hours, it will add, youknow, maybe 10 hours from the
previous workout.
So that may be one of thereasons why we would be
(18:32):
surprised, because it still keptkind of 10 hours from the day
before you know and added on tothis one session.
But often it will be very hardto find out when you go over the
lactic acid threshold.
You will not necessarily feel it, but you know and that is why
athletes you know need to takethe finger test you know to
(18:55):
check for lactic acid, becauseit's hard to know and once you
go into that lactic acidthreshold you need a lot more
recovery.
So that may also be one of theexplanation why you are
surprised, because you werepushing it into zone three or
into zone four without reallyfeeling it, because you felt so
good, pushing yourself so hardthat you you will have a lot of
(19:19):
lactic acid will need a lot ofrecovery time after that.
For example, when I did the VO2max test, you know you're just
running as hard as you can,maybe six or eight minutes, you
know, on the treadmill from whenyou start until you're finished
it's six to eight minutes, andI got 96 hours of recovery time
(19:40):
and I really felt that as well.
I felt like I had a flu forseveral days, and if I would run
in zone two, for example, forone and a half hour, I would
probably get less than 20 hoursof recovery time.
So it's that last highintensity part of it that will
(20:01):
give you this really extra timeand it is not necessarily worth
it, you know, and that is whythe best athletes often have 80%
of their exercise in zone twoand then maybe 20% in the more
high intensity zone.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
One of the things that I've covered on the podcast
is that some instructors,master instructors, come on and
one of the things isanti-glycolytic training, where
you know you'll start to developthat lactic acid but giving it
the time it your body needs toclear it before your next
(20:39):
activity or your next session,uh, which is a different way of
training in the states thatpeople are used to.
People are used to highintensity interval training.
Going to these group classesget like smashing it and they,
they feel that they've done agood job if they're on the floor
(20:59):
like panting, you know yeah,that's right and yeah, it's not
necessarily.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Yeah, not necessarily , not necessarily the best way.
And particularly if they have ahard, you know, stressful life,
if they have a stressful job,they have a family life that
demands a lot of them, and thenthey think that, okay, I only
have two hours a week toexercise so I need to go all in
and maximize, uh, you know, theeffort and that is not
(21:26):
necessarily compatible with withgood health overall and most
people I think there's atendency among ambitious people
to to overdo it.
I think so, and and the watcheswill then tell you.
You know the new garmin watches.
They have a training readiness,so they will give you an
estimate of how well preparedyou are for this day to to push
(21:49):
yourself.
And I can easily find that thatthat is a good measurement,
because when I have a lowtraining readiness and I can do
just for experimenting, I dothis exactly the same run, more
or less the same speed and heartrate, and I can see that after
the the session, the heart rate,if I have a low training
readiness for some, whateverreason, then my heart rate will
(22:12):
be higher the rest of the daythan if I had a good training
readiness and that I was wellrested and recovered before I
did the exercise.
So I would look even more tohow the heart rate reacts after
the session than during thesession.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Have you ever heard of the Mathedon method at all?
No, not really.
Phil Mathedone, he, he kind ofkind of coined this little
formula.
I I started to use it a littlebit after, like I've done
endurance events, iron man, andI used it a little bit at for my
iron man and that's that'shelped me.
(22:51):
But before I was doing somemarathon training I did not use
the method.
But it's basically, you know,not going over your maximum
aerobic function threshold of sothey basically putting at like
take 180, you know, minus yourage, like say for 30, that's 150
beats per minute and you andyou can't go over that and you
(23:15):
stay at that.
You know, if you're doing longruns I easily can pick up the
pace and feel good and go, butI'll go above the one 50.
And so you, you force people tostay lower and so in in time
that they stay at that heartrate.
You know which they feel likethey're not going very fast, but
(23:36):
over time you will actuallydevelop more speed and more
endurance but your heart ratewill stay the same.
That's kind of like the generalyeah, um, idea of it.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Yeah, yeah, that is what I've done.
I'm going to run the new yorkmarathon now in november and
I've been doing exactly that,just slowly, slowly exercising
more, and I can run faster andlonger at the same heart rate.
So that's been my experimentfor the exercise.
(24:08):
I would be curious to know yourVO2 max.
I have a VO2 max of 46, whichis excellent, like excellent for
my age.
The garmin was safe.
So so many people.
If they have a low vo2 max andthey decide to, okay, I'm gonna
start exercising now, I'm gonnastart a new life.
But if you then have a vo2 maxdown to maybe 30 32, you cannot
(24:33):
tolerate much before you go intoabove the threshold and you're
full of lactic acid and you feelsick and demotivated and want
to quit, you know.
So I think a lot of personaltrainers underestimate the
intensity that people with a lowvo2 max can tolerate without
(24:54):
getting into the, to the lacticacid.
And and the garmin watches willtell you after a session how
much anaerobic and how muchaerobic load you put on yourself
, and the aim then often wouldbe to have a good load on the
aerobic side and as little aspossible on the anaerobic side,
(25:15):
which which would release thelactic acid.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
So yeah, cuz anaerobic you're, you're that's,
that's your full clip, likeyour full sprinting.
At that point you know, with,with.
You know we want to take careof physical activity, make sure
we recovered, making sure we'resmart about that and not
overtraining.
But what role does diet play inoptimizing HRV?
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Yeah, the diet is also very important and a lot of
people find out from theirwatches and devices that if they
eat junk food or they eat, youknow, crisps or chips, or eat
crisps or chips or Dunkin'Donuts and all kinds of poor
nutritional value food that itwill also stress your system.
(26:04):
A lot of people will find outthat eating bakery goods like
bread and buns and all of thesekind of things will also create
stress on your system, that itwill raise your heart rate and
you will use some of your energyhandling this kind of food that
you, your body and yourintestines don't really tolerate
(26:25):
well.
That will create aninflammation in your body and,
instead of the immune systemkind of repairing your muscles
and building yourself stronger,it has to deal with this
inflammation that is created inyour in your system.
So I think for an athlete, it'svery important to pay attention
(26:46):
to your diet and to you know,eat real food, food that your
great grandmother wouldrecognize as food, foods that
don't need any label to tell youwhat it is or any advice on
this contains vitamin D.
The real good food withnutritional value doesn't have
(27:08):
any label on it.
So that would be important, andit would also be important to
have a restricted feeding windowso that you don't eat too late
in the day, maybe that you stopeating, maybe two or three hours
before you go to bed, so thatyour intestinal system gets
enough time to recover, becauseit's a very vulnerable system.
(27:31):
It's like one cell from thecontents of your intestines into
the bloodstream.
So if you eat poor food thatcreates inflammation, it's like
having an open wound in yourstomach, in your gut, that will
sap you of your forces that youwould rather want to have to
(27:52):
recover better and buildyourself stronger.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
Lots of the conversations that we have on
the on this podcast, this mainlymost people are.
Uh, come to this one for like,um you know, a primal diet which
is consisting of, like you know, animal meats, right, animal
fats but we also talk about likeum.
I've had just recently dr billschindler.
He he's a great guy.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
Yeah, I know him.
Yeah, I met him in Oslo.
He's a great guy.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Oh, amazing yeah he's wonderful and things that we
talk about on here is really oneget connected to your food,
which is important, and reallyunderstanding where it's coming
from, of trying to really avoidultra-processed, highly
palatable foods, because theyare addicting, over-consuming
(28:41):
and they're just they recap it,like you were saying the
inflammation piece.
Most of these illnesses thatwe're dealing with is just
chronic inflammation over andover again.
But getting down to thosesingle ingredients and those
whole foods is gonna be.
I think it's really hard forpeople to wrap themselves around
, because our landscape of foodhas changed dramatically.
(29:05):
We don't know where our foodcomes from.
We get it from packages and wethink that's where food comes
from.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Yeah, yeah.
And to find that real food youknow it's quite a challenge in
the stores, yeah, so yeah, likeEat Like a Human.
You know it's quite a challengein the stores, yeah, so yeah,
like eat like a human.
You know the Bill Schindlerbook, so it's a great advice.
Yeah, and the good thing aboutthe wearables, and then
particularly Garmin, because tomicromanage this you would need
(29:31):
a Garmin that you can see thatcertain kind of foods will
stress your system and thatcould be a surprise.
It could also be for me.
Like chili is like.
That will be just like alcohol.
So if there's some chili in thefood, I may not even, you know,
taste it as spicy, it's just inthe food and then my stress
(29:52):
levels will be super highthroughout the night and I will
wake up the next morning with ahangover just from the chili,
from chili.
From chili, yeah, so a lot ofpeople get there, and I've heard
lots of other people as well,and, of course, even before I
had a wearable, I would eatchili, and I would, of course,
never think.
You know, when I wake up, youknow at 8, 9 o'clock, that how I
(30:18):
feel would have any connectionto what I ate.
You know 12 hours before so,but just when you, when you see
the results, you immediatelyunderstand that wow, oh, my
heart rate went up from 60 to 75.
You know what's happening hereand then you can understand then
, of course, that okay, it's,it's, it's a chili.
Once it happens, you knowseveral times, you know, you
understand the commondenominator of what happened.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
You mentioned alcohol .
Has alcohol affected?
Does it affect HRV in like asmall quantity we're talking
like one glass, because a lot ofpeople use that as kind of the
de-stressor of the night, likeI'll have a glass of wine or two
at night or is itover-consuming alcohol that
(31:02):
really messes with the HRV?
Speaker 2 (31:04):
Yeah, both, yeah, both, and I used to think that
as well.
Because in the alcohol you willfeel calm.
Of course, that is why so manypeople use it.
But the problem comes when thealcohol is converted into
acetaldehyde in your body, andacetaldehyde is very toxic, so
it has to be prioritized overanything else, including then,
(31:25):
of course, recovery, you know,and muscle building and whatever
.
So I can see that when you havethe wearable, that my stress
level, or maybe six, seven hoursthroughout the night is as high
as if I'm standing having alecture in front of 200 people.
So the body, when you feelterrible, you know, after a
(31:46):
party, it's not just the feeling, your body has been super
stressed throughout the night.
Um, and according to whoop thattracks their users, um, it
takes five days after you'vebeen out drinking until you're
back again at full recovery.
So then, if you drink two timesa week, you know you, you will
never be knowing your optimalperformance.
(32:09):
So so for an athlete to spendenergy on alcohol would be a
very, very poor choice.
So the best athletes, theydon't drink any alcohol.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
Yeah, I went through a phase where, you know, I
actually cut out alcoholcompletely and I've cut back
over the years and tried to kindof minimize it.
But the one thing I did Ioriginally wanted to do 30 days
no alcohol, no wine, no beer, nonothing.
I felt so good that I kicked itto 60 days.
(32:45):
So I did 60 days of no alcohol.
And the one thing is somethingI want to talk about as well as
my sleep.
I am a terrible sleeper.
I just really hard for me toget down.
I've tried a bunch of differentthings to do, but the one thing
is when I absolutely tookalcohol out, I like was like a
sack of potatoes on the bed andI would just call it sleep in my
(33:07):
recovery.
Is there any any thing?
I we all know that sleep isimportant, but is there anything
that you do in particular knowof people to optimize their
sleep?
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Yeah, to optimize the sleep is the most important
thing.
It's also the first chapter inmy book, the Pulse Cure, because
it's kind of the foundation ofeverything else.
Once you sleep well, you getenough, you know, you feel
better and it's easier to makethe good choices and to go out
running.
You know.
If you've been don't feelrefreshed and had a poor night
(33:42):
of sleep, you know it.
You don't want to do theexercise, you don't want to eat
the right things, you take thethe not so smart choice.
So, and to sleep?
The optimal way to sleep is togo to bed and wake up at the
same time, more or less everyday, within maybe a half an hour
window.
That you have a good sleepconsistency that's one of the
(34:03):
most important things.
And also then that you cantrack on your wearable that your
sleep is actually restorative.
And for it to be restorativeyou need to not have eaten late.
You need to not have trainedExercise hard late in the
evening.
You should not exercise hardmaybe three or four hours before
you go to bed, because then itwill disturb the sleep.
(34:26):
You should not have hadcaffeine after maybe noon at the
same day.
So that will be very individual.
Some will tolerate it betterthan others, but most people
will react to it by not gettingoptimal sleep.
And then also, you need to winddown.
(34:47):
The last one or two hoursbefore you go to sleep, dim the
lights, have a cool bedroom notcold, but quite cool.
That will improve therestorative effect of it.
Yeah, that is some of the advicethat I would that I need to do
to to sleep as well as possible.
(35:08):
Yeah, that's super important,and you will need seven to eight
hours of sleep, and missing thesleep is not only uncomfortable
or leads to you underperforming, but it's downright dangerous,
and if you sleep less than sixhours compared to more than
seven, you double your risk ofcancer, according to matthew
walker, who has written theexcellent book why we sleep.
(35:30):
So it's actually dangerous notto to sleep properly.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
Yeah, wow, I, I gotta get more sleep.
I feel like I'm I'm like, ifI'm lucky, I get six, and that's
just me.
But uh, the coffee afterafternoon, uh, that's, that's a
tough one for me.
I am a a coffee fiend, so I'llhave it.
I've had a cup already in themorning.
I'll probably have a cup, uh,right after this podcast, uh.
(35:57):
But yeah, it's, it's, it's just, it's habitual.
I have it.
Maybe I just got to get to thedecaf and then maybe wean myself
off it.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
Yeah, that's what I do.
I do the decaf.
You know, if there's somethingafternoon, then I would do a
decaf, yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
Yeah, I would always joke with people if they get
decaf and I'm like why are yougetting coffee if you're just
getting decaf?
Speaker 2 (36:18):
but yeah, it's useful , it's better better sleep.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely and one of the
stories.
I was listening to one of thepodcasts that you're on and one
of the stories and we weretalking about stress, but also
like lifestyle stresses andhappiness, and you were kind of
giving this uh example of yourum, because you were with
doctors without borders and youwere in some areas that were
like war-torn countries and oneof the things you mentioned was
(36:42):
like you looked around, you seethat people that kind of had
nothing seem to be the happiest,and then you look at other
areas of the world that haveabundance and they seem to be
very unhappy.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
Yeah, yeah, that's a weird thing, you know.
Know, in our society today, wehave as much as any generation
before us, you know, with allkind of luxuries and and things,
that if you went back 100 years, people would be just amazed at
what we have.
And still a lot of people areunsatisfied, they are looking
(37:20):
for what they don't have, andand they are comparing
themselves to others, you know,on social media and so on, and
and uh.
So when I went to angola, whichjust had been through a war you
know, this is now almost 30years ago uh, I was expecting to
see very sad people, you know,uh, and but when I came there,
(37:42):
and and in the years before Igot there, half the population
had died in this war, and andthey were so full of life, you
know, so full of happiness, oftogetherness, of feeling meaning
, you know.
And, of course, being outside,doing manual work, sleeping when
it's the night time, you know,at that time, and and also
(38:04):
having this good mood, you know,dancing in the streets, you
know.
The children, although they ateminimally, you know, we're still
very energetic, you know, ofcourse, except for the worst
ones that were in the hospitalwhere I worked, where three
children died every day more orless from starvation, from
malaria, from pneumonia and soon.
(38:26):
But still, in those conditions,I saw a joy and the joy of life
that I, well had not seen.
And the biggest shock for mewas coming home and seeing the
sad, sullen faces on people andreading everybody complaining
(38:48):
about things.
So that was kind of a surpriseto me and triggered me into
finding out oh, how can we livebetter even if we have it all?
How can we learn from then toenjoy life and and to see, look
at what we have and and not onlybe focused on what we don't
have, you know?
So, um, I don't really know thereasons for that, but the people
(39:11):
are much more lonely, much moreto themselves, and our modern
lifestyle is kind of exactly theopposite from what we are
developed for.
You know, we live inside mostof the time.
97 percent of the time we spendinside, we eat food that we're
not supposed to eat.
Most people move too little.
(39:33):
You don't get enough sunshine,we don't get enough nature, we
don't challenge our bodiesenough to build ourselves
stronger.
So most people not you, ofcourse I can see, but most
people do.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
I'm trying, but everything you just listed is
free.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
It's free.
It's free so it's available toeverybody, and it's um so uh.
It's when you get sick that itstarts to get expensive, and and
then it starts to depend onyour wallet if you get the best
treatment or not.
So so the best thing would beto avoid getting sick, of course
, and and we can do that.
(40:14):
So if you do these things, youknow, make sure that you sleep,
make sure that you sleep enough,make sure that you move enough,
that you have some ways ofmanaging stress, that you drink
the minimal amount of alcohol,that you eat real food and you
have good relationships, then,according to an American study
(40:45):
from veterans, you can live 24years longer if you do all these
right things.
So there's not just a couple ofyears or two, two, three years
that are at stake, it's decadeswe're talking.
And that's also with my ownexperience.
You know, I've been working asa doctor for 26 years.
I've had more than 100,000consultations, and I can see
this clearly that if you do theright choices in these areas,
(41:07):
then your chances of getting to90 years old is quite good.
And if you don't do thesethings, if you do the opposite,
you drink a lot, you don't move,you don't sleep well enough and
all of these things, and youeat crap food.
Uh, then you would be lucky topass 70 years old.
Speaker 1 (41:23):
So, um, so I I can see that this difference is real
yeah, and it's also this, thisquality of life too, because I I
talk with other people, that'sbeen in the podcast and it's you
might be getting.
You might make it to 80 or 90,but what are those years looking
(41:43):
like A lot of people do couldmake it to 80 or 90, but they
lots of medications, uh, lots ofhospital visits.
I know my parents right now.
Uh, my father just turned 70.
You know he had a triple bypass.
My mom had her thyroid takenout.
She's almost 70 and lots ofmedication on.
That's her lifestyle now,because of all of the years that
(42:07):
they didn't do those things.
And you mentioned something aswell I tell people you're like
it's really expensive to getsick, you know, and and it's I
tell people when they're, whenthey give me the, because I'll
be a, train other people andclients, I, you know, I really
just, you know, don't have timeto work out at all and I was
(42:28):
like, if you don't have time towork out at all or like, take
your life in your own hands,then you ain't, you don't have
time to get sick, then yeah,that's gonna be a bad thing.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and that that time
that you're saving there will,you will be subtracted at the
other end of your, your life byby, uh, by a factor of something
.
Yeah, so, uh, so it's uh.
And those 24 years I must alsosay is that if you do these
things from you are 40 years old, you know so and and so there,
(43:00):
and even if you start changingyour lifestyle when you're 60,
there's I think it was 16 or 18years that you will live longer.
So you would, essentially, ifyou, even if you had a poor
lifestyle until you're 60, youcould kind of double your
remaining lifetime if you startusing and changing your
(43:21):
lifestyle.
And I know because I did that.
You know I used to weigh 40pounds more than I do today.
I used to not exercise at all.
I used to drink alcohol more orless every day, not caring
about sleep, food, anything, soso until my father died then, 10
years ago, then I understood Ihave to change everything around
.
So it's possible.
(43:43):
And of course, it's motivatingwhen you can see from your
wearables that you can see theresult in real time.
Then it gets more motivating todo the cold plunges, for
example.
To do the fasting when you seethat the effect is good on your
heart rate variability.
To do the fasting when you seethat the effect is good on your
heart rate variability.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
You know, and with the wearables do you see, you
know, just kind of in yourexperience, you see the future
of healthcare kind of evolving,you know.
Do you think HRV monitoringcould be in more of a mainstream
practice with healthcare?
Speaker 2 (44:14):
Yeah, yeah, I'm sure it's already happening at a
massive scale in Norway.
I'm not sure how it is in theUS, but I think in Scandinavia
people are taking control oftheir health.
You know, to see these numbersyou have to be able to, to track
(44:37):
it, to measure it to yourself.
So it's kind of a major shift,then, from the power being in
the doctor's hands and thehealth care system's hands and
into your own hands literally,and from after you get sick
until avoid getting sick in thefirst place.
So, and now we know also somuch more about it and that
there is money to be made, youknow the problem in the health
(44:59):
care system is that there's toomuch money in sick people.
You know, like your parents, youknow there's too much money in
having sick people on lifelongmedications for 20-30 years.
You know, maybe a multiple alot of them would have five, six
, six, seven, eight differentmedications.
And now the good thing aboutthese wearables is that there is
(45:24):
money to be made to help peopleavoid getting sick.
And that's quite upliftingbecause you need to follow the
money.
There needs to be somefinancial money to be made on
healthy people.
So that, I think, is one of thebig changers in this.
Speaker 1 (45:44):
I.
It was years ago this has hadto be like 10 years ago where we
had insurance through my,through my job, and they did
this program and they don't doit anymore.
But you, if you had I think itwas fitbit at the time, if you
had a fitbit and it might havebeen even apple watch as well
(46:05):
but you can connect it to yourinsurance and they can see, like
all of the activity that you'redoing in your heart or whatever
.
And if you were healthy, youactually paid less and and I was
like that, yeah, I'm like that,I'm doing the work now, like
it's I'm making.
You know, I'm I'm actuallycontributing to not causing the
healthcare system to be overrunby people and so I'm kind of
(46:29):
getting rewarded for that and Ithought that was cool.
And then they changed it overand it didn't.
I don't know why they did that,but they don't have that
anymore anymore.
But I think some people stillhold that to today and, um, it's
, what is it for?
We were talking about anotherpodcast 4.8 trillion dollars in
the united states of what we pay, uh, yearly on health care yeah
(46:51):
, yeah it's.
Speaker 2 (46:52):
I think it's the one of the most expensive health
care systems in the world andyou're not getting the results
from it.
Oh, it's, uh, yeah, and ofcourse, of course.
And this system, so it's likethat a system that makes money
on solving a problem willmaintain the problem that it's
(47:13):
the solution to, you know.
So it's kind of an unconscious,but you know, mechanism in
these systems.
So it will stay that way untilthere's more money to be made,
you know, and keeping peoplehealthy.
So take care of it now.
(47:34):
Of course, you would save themoney on the insurance by doing
those steps on the Fitbit, butyou will save years of your life
.
You know, with experiences andlife on the planet, you know
that's probably worth more thanmoney.
Speaker 1 (47:48):
Yeah, absolutely.
And lastly, is there anythingthat you're currently working on
or some future projects comingup that you're excited about?
Speaker 2 (48:01):
some future projects coming up that you're excited
about.
Yeah, right now I'm finishingmy book in Norwegian, though, so
if it gets translated intoEnglish I don't know but it's
about rest.
The rest cure is about how toimprove your ability to rest and
to do the recovery work,because that seems to be the
hardest thing for people.
So it's kind of more like adeep dive into the rest part of
(48:22):
the pulse cure.
That chapter in the pulse cureis probably like 15 pages, you
know, and now it's kind of 150pages on that subject.
Speaker 1 (48:32):
Yeah, that's cool, I think, like you said, I feel
like rest and just play ingeneral, you know, is we don't
get enough of that.
We're too focused on theday-to-day, our works, our jobs,
getting here, getting there,you know, and then when we get
home we watch Netflix or we geton the couch and we get too
(48:53):
comfortable with that.
But devoting the time to likereally rest, recover but also
play Any other future projectsyou're thinking of or events
coming up for you?
Speaker 2 (49:07):
Yeah, well, I will, of course, run the New York
Marathon soon, so I'm excited tosee New York and see how that
will be.
And then I'm also actually goingto start.
Just in a new book, it's aboutthe sun, because the sun
exposure, the sun, has got a badrap you know for for being
dangerous, but it seems that wehave forgotten to look at the
(49:29):
positive sides of of the energyfrom the sun that is,
cooperating with our skin, withour hormones, and improving our
function.
Of course, you know we, we are aspecies developed under the sun
for millions of years and andwe have learned to use the
energy from the sun.
You know it's electromagneticenergy.
(49:50):
You know, entering our cells,that half of the sun energy is
infrared light that willpenetrate maybe five, six, seven
centimeters into our bodies anddoing a lot of good work.
So the the price of scaringpeople about melanoma and the
(50:11):
reason why we try to stay out ofthe sun has also a huge price,
you know.
So we don't get the benefitseither from the sun.
So and now the research is veryclear on that that that is so
much heart disease that comesfrom the lack of of sun actually
.
So so I'm really lookingforward to start that project
(50:34):
and to dive into the all themisconceptions about sun,
sunshine and the dangers ofsunshine and the lack of
exploration of the benefits.
Speaker 1 (50:43):
Those both sound awesome.
I do want to have a quickfollow-up to that, just out of
curiosity.
You know a lot of places thatare health, wellness studios,
fitness places, are nowinstalling infrared lights,
infrared saunas.
Is that a comparable in termsof benefits or it's kind of like
(51:05):
a cash cow of like a fancything?
That kind of works.
Speaker 2 (51:10):
No, it should work.
Yeah, I need to go into thesubject more, but it seems to
work.
Yeah, so it's the same sameenergy, some energy uh race, you
know, and the same uhfrequencies that they use, that
is from the, from the sun, sunrays.
So it should be uh, should beuseful, you know, and and you
(51:34):
can see also that the researchcan show that the mitochondria
work better with the infraredexposure.
Speaker 1 (51:45):
Awesome, that's super interesting, so I'm going to be
excited.
Hopefully these next two booksget translated to English so I
can take a read at them.
But, torkel, thank you so much.
Where can people find you viasocial media or website?
I'm on social media.
I'm Dr Torkel.
Thank you so much.
Where can people find you viasocial media or website?
Speaker 2 (52:01):
I'm on social media.
I'm Dr Torkel.
I'm drtorkel and of course, mybook is on Amazon and also an
audio book for people who liketo listen to books.
And we also have a websitecalled thepulsecurecom, where
you can see.
I have a free one-hour lecturethere where I can tell you and
(52:24):
show you how you can use yourGarmin watch to micromanage your
stress and identify the kind ofenergy thieves that you maybe
was not aware of.
Speaker 1 (52:33):
Awesome.
Thank you, man.
I appreciate you.
You know I know it's late inNorway right now, but I
appreciate you coming on to thepodcast and thanks for everybody
listening to another episode ofthe Primal Foundations podcast.
Thank you all for joining us.
If you enjoyed this episode,don't forget to subscribe, like
and share.
(52:54):
See you all next time on thePrimal Foundations podcast.
Welcome to the Primal Foundations podcast.
I'm your host, tony Pascola.
We will dive into what Ibelieve are the four central
foundations you need for ahealthy lifestyle Strength,
nutrition, movement and recovery.
Get ready to unlock your pathto optimal health and enjoy the
episode.
Today's guest is Torkel Farrell.
(00:27):
Torkel is a Norwegian physicianand author of the bestseller
the Pulse Cure, which focuses onheart rate variability and the
correlation to health.
Torkel, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Tony, it's great to be here.
It's wonderful to have you on.
I'm excited and intrigued totalk about some heart rate
variability.
Are you coming to us fromNorway this morning?
Speaker 2 (00:48):
That's right, that's right.
So here is almost evening time.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
It's almost evening, it's about eight in the morning
out in Chicago.
Here All right.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Yeah, it's cool that we can talk and there's no delay
in as we were talking anddiscussing just a fantastic tool
to be able to do this.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Yeah, yeah, it's been great and I'm sure, with you
know, promoting the book andreaching different audiences is
and this is what I love to dothe podcast, because it's like a
grassroots version of you knowgetting some information out
that some people might not evenhave access to and then for the
listeners, can you, can you giveus some background on how you
found yourself in medicine andwhat was your motivation to
write the Pulse Cure?
Speaker 2 (01:29):
How I found myself in medicine.
That was actually to be able totravel the world and see the
world, because in Norway you canwork part-time, you can take
two weeks here and two weeksthere and work and then go off
traveling.
So my initial motivation behindbecoming a doctor was actually
to see the world and to have afree life.
You know, but 10 years ago myfather died, and he died from a
(01:55):
well lifestyle related diseasethat that most diseases are
these days, and I could see thatif I continued my lifestyle
because I've done all themistakes in my own book I would
probably not live to see 80years old, and I would want to
live as long as possible.
So then I understood I have tochange my lifestyle around
(02:16):
totally.
And as I did that, I found outthat using heart rate
variability, using the rhythm ofthe heart, can guide you
towards the right choices,because when you do the right
choices it will improve yourheart rate variability, and if
you do the wrong choices that Iwas a master at, you will also
(02:37):
see that in your heart ratevariability, and so it's a
magnificent tool.
You know that probably you andmost of your listeners will
already have on their wrist, andthey may not be aware of the
possibility that exists in usingthe heart rate to monitor your
lifestyle.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
And then, for those that are unfamiliar with the
book the Pulse Cure, can youexplain what HRV is and why
that's a good metric for health?
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Yeah, so my book, the Pulse Cure, which has been a
bestseller in Norway now forclose to two years, is a book on
the best strategies forlifestyle and, combined with
using the variables to guide itand heart rate variability, will
(03:28):
see how your autonomic nervoussystem works, how your stress
balance, if it's good enough, ifit's sustainable and compatible
with health over time.
So we need to stress and we needto put loads on our body, you
know, to become stronger andmore fit, but we also need to
stress and we need to put loadson our body, you know, to become
stronger and more fit, but wealso need to recover properly
(03:49):
and many athletes and manypeople in general they are
under-recovered.
There's not enough focus on thedown state, on relaxing, on
sleeping, on recovering afterexercise or after life stress in
total.
And the way the heartbeat canshow that and reveal the state
(04:11):
of our stress balance is that ifwe are in the relaxed mode,
then the heart rate will have avariation between the heartbeats
.
When we breathe in and there'smore oxygen in the lungs, the
heart rate will go up a littlebit, and when we breathe out and
there's less oxygen in thelungs, the heart will allow
(04:31):
itself, so to speak, to relax alittle bit.
Measured in milliseconds,hardly detectable, but if you're
in a really calm mode you canfeel it yourself with your pulse
and your corroded artery.
But if you're in the stressstate, then your heart will beat
like a metronome, regardless ofyour breathing in or out.
It will just beat at a verysteady pace.
(04:52):
And this is how the wearablescan detect your stress balance
and measure it in the moment andthroughout the day and night,
while you're busy living yourlife, and it can tell you so
much about the load on yoursystem, your ability to have a
flexible nervous system to beable to calm down and also to
(05:13):
stress when you need to we hearall the times of like we were
talking about my garmin earlier.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
You know there's different wearables that you're
hearing the who, whoop, aura,things like that.
Which brand or style do yourecommend for people?
Is it specific, like athletesshould kind of get this, or this
is good for just average people?
Speaker 2 (05:37):
I think for most people, garmin watches are the
best, like the one you have.
Your version is a bit old, sothere's a lot of new things
about it that is, uh, hasimproved a lot.
Your watch is probably four orfive years old, I'll guess, and
so garmin, for most people, isby far the best choice and also
the the cheaper option often.
(05:59):
But you can also use the whoopband, as you mentioned mentioned
, and the Aura Ring, and theApple Watch and almost all of
the modern smartwatches willhave some kind of system that
will tell you about your stressbalance.
But Garmin is by far the bestone as it will show you the
stress level in the moment andthroughout the day in very
(06:23):
useful graphs.
But it also depends, you know.
Garment is the best to kind ofmicromanage your stress levels.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
If you just want to have like glimpses into your,
the state of your physiology,then it might be a whoop band or
or a ring will be good enoughand for do you recommend for
athletes that they have, ifthey're doing training, let's
say like endurance endeavors,the chest strap, because I know
a lot of people recommend havingthe chest strap versus yes,
(06:56):
this does also do that, you know, on the wrist, but is there a
difference if you're working outof your heart rate variability?
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Yeah, the chest strap .
If you do some vigorousactivity, you know, like running
or tennis or racket sports orwhatever, then it's best to have
the chest strap absolutely.
But often I forget it and thenI can see that at least my new
garmin watch will will be dopretty much the same job, but
(07:23):
you're more certain to have theright result with a chest strap.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
HRV.
What number is a good numberfor somebody, and does that
differ between male and female?
Speaker 2 (07:38):
There will be minor differences between male and
female.
It's not so it will not be suchMaybe one or two, three
milliseconds in a difference onon the averages, and there's
kind of a 50 percent geneticcomponent to it.
So you shouldn't really compareyour HRV to anyone else's
because it will not necessarilylike if you have a low one that
(08:02):
you could consider having like25 milliseconds, which would be
normally considered a low onefor your age.
Then another person that mayhave 50 or 60 could have exactly
the same objective health levelbecause of this genetic
component.
The most important thing is tofind out how good can you get
(08:24):
your heart rate variabilityunder the perfect circumstances
and just compare yourself toyourself, really Okay.
And I would say we talked aboutthe chest strap and the most
important thing for athletes.
They often focus too much ontheir heart rate during training
, but I would say that the mostimportant thing is how your
(08:45):
heart rate reacts after thesession.
That will tell you more abouthow well you tolerated that
session than the heart rate initself or even your resting
heart rate.
You could, you could have thesame resting heart rate at night
, you know.
Say that you have, for example,45 in the resting heart rate.
But your heart rate variability, as a measure of whether you
(09:06):
are over trained or not, can canbe kind of double or or half
the value you know.
So it's um.
I often say it's like watchingyour heart rate with a
magnifying glass.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
So so the heart rate variability will tell you so
much more for an athlete yeah,and you you've talked about this
before of almost like gamifying, or gamification of your life
and in your training yeah, yeah,absolutely.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
So.
It becomes kind of a game whereyou suddenly have a like a
dashboard to your own physiology, just like you have in your car
.
You know, and, uh, and you haveall these different things.
You know that, uh, thattechnology can get out of your
movement, from your pulse, fromyour sleep, from your
temperature and all of this anduse artificial intelligence and
(09:50):
can tell you so much more, andit will just probably just you
know escalate in the comingyears as well.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
You know when we go into the doctor's office, you
know the traditional methods ofassessing.
You're looking at, you know ablood pressure or just a?
You're just beats per minute.
You know on the monitor Is HRVsuperior, not?
Are they all kind of the same,giving you kind of the same
exact idea?
Speaker 2 (10:20):
I would say that HRV is superior.
Or, of course, if you have a badblood pressure, if your blood
pressure is too high, it mayabsolutely be more dangerous,
but it would also.
I don't think that you wouldhave a high blood pressure
without also having a low HRV,so those would be connected in
(10:43):
somewhat.
But the good thing about heartrate variability is that you
have this number on your wrist,available at all times, and you
have it.
You know, not the doctor.
You don't have to wait and paythe doctor to see the results.
You have them on your wrist atall times.
So you have the control and yourheart rate variability will
(11:03):
tell you a lot about your riskof contracting any kind of
disease, any kind of lifestyledisease.
That includes heart disease andcancer and autoimmune diseases
and so many other diseases thatwe struggle with.
So if you have a good heartrate variability that is a sign
that your immune system isworking smoothly and that you
(11:25):
have a good physiology then yourrisk of getting a disease is a
lot less.
You know, as you probably know,that just if you're exercising
a certain amount a week, youreduce your chances of getting
cancer and heart disease.
You know by a lot.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
That number that's attached to me it gives.
It's also empowering right.
If I, if this is the numberthat I'm looking for, I'm going
to be doing my day to daylooking at that number and also,
like we, we talk aboutpreventive care, a lot and
lifestyle choices.
Like you were mentioning,there's a lot of diseases that
are caused by just lifestyle ingeneral.
(12:03):
Going into that, let's justtalk about, you know, physical
activity at first.
You know what types of physicalactivity or training should we
be doing to improve our HRV?
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Well, the optimal for longevity.
That seems to be record sports.
I don't know the reason forthat.
It's probably that it involvesa lot of you know, speed, you
know changing directions,cooperating with another person,
obviously, and that is bothkind of explosive.
(12:34):
And then it's also enduranceand so on technique, you know
coordination.
So racquet sport seems to bethe best one for health and
longevity.
But for hrv I would say thatwould be probably any endurance,
uh, sport you know, like likerunning, like cardio, like high
intensity training and so on,and and anything is a lot better
(12:58):
than nothing, and you don't.
The worst thing is to be in thatlowest 25% of VO2 max, because
we can also probably compare itto the VO2 max.
It's probably a better numberto watch than the heart rate
variability number in itself.
So to have among the lowest VO2max levels that you can also
(13:19):
get from your Garmin, you know,and an Apple watch and so on, to
be in the lowest quarter, thelowest 25%, that is, those are
the ones who get sick.
Once you get to the 50% andmore, then it doesn't really
matter so much whether you're onthe 50% or among the 5% best
VO2 max.
The difference in health leveland longevity is not so big, so
(13:44):
you don't really have tostruggle very hard and use 10
hours a week to improve your VO2max to live longer.
You may, of course, do it torun faster and win the game, you
know, but for longevity, beingthere in the middle is good
enough, I would say.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
I've also heard about racket sports and squash and
tennis and how those arecorrelated with some of the one
of the best options for beinghealthy for lifespan.
But I think it is because youknow you do a little bit of
sprinting and you recover alittle bit, and then you sprint
a little bit, then you recoverand you're also out there.
(14:23):
It's something you're going todo a lot.
You're going to do it becauseyou're having fun as well.
We always like think of fitnessand training as like it's got
to be this intense, like reallyhard workout or exercising, but
it could just be fun.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Yeah, actually, you know, tennis would obviously be
more fun also.
And you have this, as you say,you sprint and then you pause,
and then there's a lot of pauses, and actually the best tennis
players are the ones who canlower their heart rate between
the balls so that they areexperts at calming themselves
down, you know, before the nextstrike, or whatever you call it
(15:02):
in tennis next strike orwhatever you call it in tennis
how much?
Speaker 1 (15:08):
because I know when, when people see these numbers
and they people can really getinto data and and the metrics of
things and they start to addmore to their lifestyle and
their day-to-day, you know howmuch working out is is too much.
Because I feel like there is anopposite end to this where
people are actually overdoing it.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Yeah, absolutely, and they may not necessarily overdo
it, but they would underrecover.
So I think that is a is moreprecise to say that.
But normally exercising morethan you know seven to 10 hours
a week is often connected toworse outcomes than not training
(15:47):
at all.
You may be training too much,it may be too hard a load on
your heart and on your system.
We don't have a physiology thatis constructed for those kind
of loads.
Really, really, if we put thesevariables on hunter gatherer
societies that still exist today, we see that they are in
moderate activity two or threehours a day.
(16:10):
They're walking maybe 15 000 to20 000 steps and occasionally
in between them they are arereally pushing their, their
forces, but most of the time isin moderate.
So actually there would be.
I think I'm rarely impressed bythe longevity of former athletes
(16:31):
.
It's not like when you seetheir obituaries that you think,
well, wow, he or she lived along life.
You know it's more often theopposite, that you're kind of
surprised that they didn't reach70 or 75 or whatever.
And from my clinical experience, the ones that live the longest
they have not been exercising,they have just been moving.
(16:52):
Naturally they have beenoutside, maybe gardening,
walking, maybe living in such aplace that they would need to
move.
Naturally, they've been eatingreal food you, you know and
having good relationships, andand these things that are are
more often connected tolongevity and the good health.
So it's not necessarily so thatthe more you push yourself and
(17:16):
the more you exercise, thebetter health will be the
outcome and I like how you hitthe other points of like
relationships.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Like this is a it's not just about the working out
we're going to get into somenutrition as well but that
holistic approach to health andwell-being versus I'm just going
to go to be going to the gymand that's going to take care of
all of my problems and withthat recovery we talked about a
little bit earlier.
You know, when my watch tellsme and that's why I get I don't
(17:46):
really know what to believe ofthe watch.
I know it's probably telling methe right things, but I'll do a
workout like a run four miles,five, whatever it might be and
then the recovery will show upat when I click the end button
and it'll say recovery 48 hours.
And I was like 48 hours I feltgood on that run.
Is that something that?
Is that just in the moment thatthe watch is calculating and
(18:09):
making an assumption, or is it?
Speaker 2 (18:11):
like from the whole day.
Yeah, yeah it.
It may be related.
So if you had a tough workoutthe day before, you know, that
maybe gave you 36 hours and youhave the next session before
those 36 hours, it will add, youknow, maybe 10 hours from the
previous workout.
So that may be one of thereasons why we would be
(18:32):
surprised, because it still keptkind of 10 hours from the day
before you know and added on tothis one session.
But often it will be very hardto find out when you go over the
lactic acid threshold.
You will not necessarily feel it, but you know and that is why
athletes you know need to takethe finger test you know to
(18:55):
check for lactic acid, becauseit's hard to know and once you
go into that lactic acidthreshold you need a lot more
recovery.
So that may also be one of theexplanation why you are
surprised, because you werepushing it into zone three or
into zone four without reallyfeeling it, because you felt so
good, pushing yourself so hardthat you you will have a lot of
(19:19):
lactic acid will need a lot ofrecovery time after that.
For example, when I did the VO2max test, you know you're just
running as hard as you can,maybe six or eight minutes, you
know, on the treadmill from whenyou start until you're finished
it's six to eight minutes, andI got 96 hours of recovery time
(19:40):
and I really felt that as well.
I felt like I had a flu forseveral days, and if I would run
in zone two, for example, forone and a half hour, I would
probably get less than 20 hoursof recovery time.
So it's that last highintensity part of it that will
(20:01):
give you this really extra timeand it is not necessarily worth
it, you know, and that is whythe best athletes often have 80%
of their exercise in zone twoand then maybe 20% in the more
high intensity zone.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
One of the things that I've covered on the podcast
is that some instructors,master instructors, come on and
one of the things isanti-glycolytic training, where
you know you'll start to developthat lactic acid but giving it
the time it your body needs toclear it before your next
(20:39):
activity or your next session,uh, which is a different way of
training in the states thatpeople are used to.
People are used to highintensity interval training.
Going to these group classesget like smashing it and they,
they feel that they've done agood job if they're on the floor
(20:59):
like panting, you know yeah,that's right and yeah, it's not
necessarily.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Yeah, not necessarily , not necessarily the best way.
And particularly if they have ahard, you know, stressful life,
if they have a stressful job,they have a family life that
demands a lot of them, and thenthey think that, okay, I only
have two hours a week toexercise so I need to go all in
and maximize, uh, you know, theeffort and that is not
(21:26):
necessarily compatible with withgood health overall and most
people I think there's atendency among ambitious people
to to overdo it.
I think so, and and the watcheswill then tell you.
You know the new garmin watches.
They have a training readiness,so they will give you an
estimate of how well preparedyou are for this day to to push
(21:49):
yourself.
And I can easily find that thatthat is a good measurement,
because when I have a lowtraining readiness and I can do
just for experimenting, I dothis exactly the same run, more
or less the same speed and heartrate, and I can see that after
the the session, the heart rate,if I have a low training
readiness for some, whateverreason, then my heart rate will
(22:12):
be higher the rest of the daythan if I had a good training
readiness and that I was wellrested and recovered before I
did the exercise.
So I would look even more tohow the heart rate reacts after
the session than during thesession.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Have you ever heard of the Mathedon method at all?
No, not really.
Phil Mathedone, he, he kind ofkind of coined this little
formula.
I I started to use it a littlebit after, like I've done
endurance events, iron man, andI used it a little bit at for my
iron man and that's that'shelped me.
(22:51):
But before I was doing somemarathon training I did not use
the method.
But it's basically, you know,not going over your maximum
aerobic function threshold of sothey basically putting at like
take 180, you know, minus yourage, like say for 30, that's 150
beats per minute and you andyou can't go over that and you
(23:15):
stay at that.
You know, if you're doing longruns I easily can pick up the
pace and feel good and go, butI'll go above the one 50.
And so you, you force people tostay lower and so in in time
that they stay at that heartrate.
You know which they feel likethey're not going very fast, but
(23:36):
over time you will actuallydevelop more speed and more
endurance but your heart ratewill stay the same.
That's kind of like the generalyeah, um, idea of it.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Yeah, yeah, that is what I've done.
I'm going to run the new yorkmarathon now in november and
I've been doing exactly that,just slowly, slowly exercising
more, and I can run faster andlonger at the same heart rate.
So that's been my experimentfor the exercise.
(24:08):
I would be curious to know yourVO2 max.
I have a VO2 max of 46, whichis excellent, like excellent for
my age.
The garmin was safe.
So so many people.
If they have a low vo2 max andthey decide to, okay, I'm gonna
start exercising now, I'm gonnastart a new life.
But if you then have a vo2 maxdown to maybe 30 32, you cannot
(24:33):
tolerate much before you go intoabove the threshold and you're
full of lactic acid and you feelsick and demotivated and want
to quit, you know.
So I think a lot of personaltrainers underestimate the
intensity that people with a lowvo2 max can tolerate without
(24:54):
getting into the, to the lacticacid.
And and the garmin watches willtell you after a session how
much anaerobic and how muchaerobic load you put on yourself
, and the aim then often wouldbe to have a good load on the
aerobic side and as little aspossible on the anaerobic side,
(25:15):
which which would release thelactic acid.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
So yeah, cuz anaerobic you're, you're that's,
that's your full clip, likeyour full sprinting.
At that point you know, with,with.
You know we want to take careof physical activity, make sure
we recovered, making sure we'resmart about that and not
overtraining.
But what role does diet play inoptimizing HRV?
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Yeah, the diet is also very important and a lot of
people find out from theirwatches and devices that if they
eat junk food or they eat, youknow, crisps or chips, or eat
crisps or chips or Dunkin'Donuts and all kinds of poor
nutritional value food that itwill also stress your system.
(26:04):
A lot of people will find outthat eating bakery goods like
bread and buns and all of thesekind of things will also create
stress on your system, that itwill raise your heart rate and
you will use some of your energyhandling this kind of food that
you, your body and yourintestines don't really tolerate
(26:25):
well.
That will create aninflammation in your body and,
instead of the immune systemkind of repairing your muscles
and building yourself stronger,it has to deal with this
inflammation that is created inyour in your system.
So I think for an athlete, it'svery important to pay attention
(26:46):
to your diet and to you know,eat real food, food that your
great grandmother wouldrecognize as food, foods that
don't need any label to tell youwhat it is or any advice on
this contains vitamin D.
The real good food withnutritional value doesn't have
(27:08):
any label on it.
So that would be important, andit would also be important to
have a restricted feeding windowso that you don't eat too late
in the day, maybe that you stopeating, maybe two or three hours
before you go to bed, so thatyour intestinal system gets
enough time to recover, becauseit's a very vulnerable system.
(27:31):
It's like one cell from thecontents of your intestines into
the bloodstream.
So if you eat poor food thatcreates inflammation, it's like
having an open wound in yourstomach, in your gut, that will
sap you of your forces that youwould rather want to have to
(27:52):
recover better and buildyourself stronger.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
Lots of the conversations that we have on
the on this podcast, this mainlymost people are.
Uh, come to this one for like,um you know, a primal diet which
is consisting of, like you know, animal meats, right, animal
fats but we also talk about likeum.
I've had just recently dr billschindler.
He he's a great guy.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
Yeah, I know him.
Yeah, I met him in Oslo.
He's a great guy.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Oh, amazing yeah he's wonderful and things that we
talk about on here is really oneget connected to your food,
which is important, and reallyunderstanding where it's coming
from, of trying to really avoidultra-processed, highly
palatable foods, because theyare addicting, over-consuming
(28:41):
and they're just they recap it,like you were saying the
inflammation piece.
Most of these illnesses thatwe're dealing with is just
chronic inflammation over andover again.
But getting down to thosesingle ingredients and those
whole foods is gonna be.
I think it's really hard forpeople to wrap themselves around
, because our landscape of foodhas changed dramatically.
(29:05):
We don't know where our foodcomes from.
We get it from packages and wethink that's where food comes
from.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Yeah, yeah.
And to find that real food youknow it's quite a challenge in
the stores, yeah, so yeah, likeEat Like a Human.
You know it's quite a challengein the stores, yeah, so yeah,
like eat like a human.
You know the Bill Schindlerbook, so it's a great advice.
Yeah, and the good thing aboutthe wearables, and then
particularly Garmin, because tomicromanage this you would need
(29:31):
a Garmin that you can see thatcertain kind of foods will
stress your system and thatcould be a surprise.
It could also be for me.
Like chili is like.
That will be just like alcohol.
So if there's some chili in thefood, I may not even, you know,
taste it as spicy, it's just inthe food and then my stress
(29:52):
levels will be super highthroughout the night and I will
wake up the next morning with ahangover just from the chili,
from chili.
From chili, yeah, so a lot ofpeople get there, and I've heard
lots of other people as well,and, of course, even before I
had a wearable, I would eatchili, and I would, of course,
never think.
You know, when I wake up, youknow at 8, 9 o'clock, that how I
(30:18):
feel would have any connectionto what I ate.
You know 12 hours before so,but just when you, when you see
the results, you immediatelyunderstand that wow, oh, my
heart rate went up from 60 to 75.
You know what's happening hereand then you can understand then
, of course, that okay, it's,it's, it's a chili.
Once it happens, you knowseveral times, you know, you
understand the commondenominator of what happened.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
You mentioned alcohol .
Has alcohol affected?
Does it affect HRV in like asmall quantity we're talking
like one glass, because a lot ofpeople use that as kind of the
de-stressor of the night, likeI'll have a glass of wine or two
at night or is itover-consuming alcohol that
(31:02):
really messes with the HRV?
Speaker 2 (31:04):
Yeah, both, yeah, both, and I used to think that
as well.
Because in the alcohol you willfeel calm.
Of course, that is why so manypeople use it.
But the problem comes when thealcohol is converted into
acetaldehyde in your body, andacetaldehyde is very toxic, so
it has to be prioritized overanything else, including then,
(31:25):
of course, recovery, you know,and muscle building and whatever
.
So I can see that when you havethe wearable, that my stress
level, or maybe six, seven hoursthroughout the night is as high
as if I'm standing having alecture in front of 200 people.
So the body, when you feelterrible, you know, after a
(31:46):
party, it's not just the feeling, your body has been super
stressed throughout the night.
Um, and according to whoop thattracks their users, um, it
takes five days after you'vebeen out drinking until you're
back again at full recovery.
So then, if you drink two timesa week, you know you, you will
never be knowing your optimalperformance.
(32:09):
So so for an athlete to spendenergy on alcohol would be a
very, very poor choice.
So the best athletes, theydon't drink any alcohol.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
Yeah, I went through a phase where, you know, I
actually cut out alcoholcompletely and I've cut back
over the years and tried to kindof minimize it.
But the one thing I did Ioriginally wanted to do 30 days
no alcohol, no wine, no beer, nonothing.
I felt so good that I kicked itto 60 days.
(32:45):
So I did 60 days of no alcohol.
And the one thing is somethingI want to talk about as well as
my sleep.
I am a terrible sleeper.
I just really hard for me toget down.
I've tried a bunch of differentthings to do, but the one thing
is when I absolutely tookalcohol out, I like was like a
sack of potatoes on the bed andI would just call it sleep in my
(33:07):
recovery.
Is there any any thing?
I we all know that sleep isimportant, but is there anything
that you do in particular knowof people to optimize their
sleep?
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Yeah, to optimize the sleep is the most important
thing.
It's also the first chapter inmy book, the Pulse Cure, because
it's kind of the foundation ofeverything else.
Once you sleep well, you getenough, you know, you feel
better and it's easier to makethe good choices and to go out
running.
You know.
If you've been don't feelrefreshed and had a poor night
(33:42):
of sleep, you know it.
You don't want to do theexercise, you don't want to eat
the right things, you take thethe not so smart choice.
So, and to sleep?
The optimal way to sleep is togo to bed and wake up at the
same time, more or less everyday, within maybe a half an hour
window.
That you have a good sleepconsistency that's one of the
(34:03):
most important things.
And also then that you cantrack on your wearable that your
sleep is actually restorative.
And for it to be restorativeyou need to not have eaten late.
You need to not have trainedExercise hard late in the
evening.
You should not exercise hardmaybe three or four hours before
you go to bed, because then itwill disturb the sleep.
(34:26):
You should not have hadcaffeine after maybe noon at the
same day.
So that will be very individual.
Some will tolerate it betterthan others, but most people
will react to it by not gettingoptimal sleep.
And then also, you need to winddown.
(34:47):
The last one or two hoursbefore you go to sleep, dim the
lights, have a cool bedroom notcold, but quite cool.
That will improve therestorative effect of it.
Yeah, that is some of the advicethat I would that I need to do
to to sleep as well as possible.
(35:08):
Yeah, that's super important,and you will need seven to eight
hours of sleep, and missing thesleep is not only uncomfortable
or leads to you underperforming, but it's downright dangerous,
and if you sleep less than sixhours compared to more than
seven, you double your risk ofcancer, according to matthew
walker, who has written theexcellent book why we sleep.
(35:30):
So it's actually dangerous notto to sleep properly.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
Yeah, wow, I, I gotta get more sleep.
I feel like I'm I'm like, ifI'm lucky, I get six, and that's
just me.
But uh, the coffee afterafternoon, uh, that's, that's a
tough one for me.
I am a a coffee fiend, so I'llhave it.
I've had a cup already in themorning.
I'll probably have a cup, uh,right after this podcast, uh.
(35:57):
But yeah, it's, it's, it's just, it's habitual.
I have it.
Maybe I just got to get to thedecaf and then maybe wean myself
off it.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
Yeah, that's what I do.
I do the decaf.
You know, if there's somethingafternoon, then I would do a
decaf, yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
Yeah, I would always joke with people if they get
decaf and I'm like why are yougetting coffee if you're just
getting decaf?
Speaker 2 (36:18):
but yeah, it's useful , it's better better sleep.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely and one of the
stories.
I was listening to one of thepodcasts that you're on and one
of the stories and we weretalking about stress, but also
like lifestyle stresses andhappiness, and you were kind of
giving this uh example of yourum, because you were with
doctors without borders and youwere in some areas that were
like war-torn countries and oneof the things you mentioned was
(36:42):
like you looked around, you seethat people that kind of had
nothing seem to be the happiest,and then you look at other
areas of the world that haveabundance and they seem to be
very unhappy.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
Yeah, yeah, that's a weird thing, you know.
Know, in our society today, wehave as much as any generation
before us, you know, with allkind of luxuries and and things,
that if you went back 100 years, people would be just amazed at
what we have.
And still a lot of people areunsatisfied, they are looking
(37:20):
for what they don't have, andand they are comparing
themselves to others, you know,on social media and so on, and
and uh.
So when I went to angola, whichjust had been through a war you
know, this is now almost 30years ago uh, I was expecting to
see very sad people, you know,uh, and but when I came there,
(37:42):
and and in the years before Igot there, half the population
had died in this war, and andthey were so full of life, you
know, so full of happiness, oftogetherness, of feeling meaning
, you know.
And, of course, being outside,doing manual work, sleeping when
it's the night time, you know,at that time, and and also
(38:04):
having this good mood, you know,dancing in the streets, you
know.
The children, although they ateminimally, you know, we're still
very energetic, you know, ofcourse, except for the worst
ones that were in the hospitalwhere I worked, where three
children died every day more orless from starvation, from
malaria, from pneumonia and soon.
(38:26):
But still, in those conditions,I saw a joy and the joy of life
that I, well had not seen.
And the biggest shock for mewas coming home and seeing the
sad, sullen faces on people andreading everybody complaining
(38:48):
about things.
So that was kind of a surpriseto me and triggered me into
finding out oh, how can we livebetter even if we have it all?
How can we learn from then toenjoy life and and to see, look
at what we have and and not onlybe focused on what we don't
have, you know?
So, um, I don't really know thereasons for that, but the people
(39:11):
are much more lonely, much moreto themselves, and our modern
lifestyle is kind of exactly theopposite from what we are
developed for.
You know, we live inside mostof the time.
97 percent of the time we spendinside, we eat food that we're
not supposed to eat.
Most people move too little.
(39:33):
You don't get enough sunshine,we don't get enough nature, we
don't challenge our bodiesenough to build ourselves
stronger.
So most people not you, ofcourse I can see, but most
people do.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
I'm trying, but everything you just listed is
free.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
It's free.
It's free so it's available toeverybody, and it's um so uh.
It's when you get sick that itstarts to get expensive, and and
then it starts to depend onyour wallet if you get the best
treatment or not.
So so the best thing would beto avoid getting sick, of course
, and and we can do that.
(40:14):
So if you do these things, youknow, make sure that you sleep,
make sure that you sleep enough,make sure that you move enough,
that you have some ways ofmanaging stress, that you drink
the minimal amount of alcohol,that you eat real food and you
have good relationships, then,according to an American study
(40:45):
from veterans, you can live 24years longer if you do all these
right things.
So there's not just a couple ofyears or two, two, three years
that are at stake, it's decadeswe're talking.
And that's also with my ownexperience.
You know, I've been working asa doctor for 26 years.
I've had more than 100,000consultations, and I can see
this clearly that if you do theright choices in these areas,
(41:07):
then your chances of getting to90 years old is quite good.
And if you don't do thesethings, if you do the opposite,
you drink a lot, you don't move,you don't sleep well enough and
all of these things, and youeat crap food.
Uh, then you would be lucky topass 70 years old.
Speaker 1 (41:23):
So, um, so I I can see that this difference is real
yeah, and it's also this, thisquality of life too, because I I
talk with other people, that'sbeen in the podcast and it's you
might be getting.
You might make it to 80 or 90,but what are those years looking
(41:43):
like A lot of people do couldmake it to 80 or 90, but they
lots of medications, uh, lots ofhospital visits.
I know my parents right now.
Uh, my father just turned 70.
You know he had a triple bypass.
My mom had her thyroid takenout.
She's almost 70 and lots ofmedication on.
That's her lifestyle now,because of all of the years that
(42:07):
they didn't do those things.
And you mentioned something aswell I tell people you're like
it's really expensive to getsick, you know, and and it's I
tell people when they're, whenthey give me the, because I'll
be a, train other people andclients, I, you know, I really
just, you know, don't have timeto work out at all and I was
(42:28):
like, if you don't have time towork out at all or like, take
your life in your own hands,then you ain't, you don't have
time to get sick, then yeah,that's gonna be a bad thing.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and that that time
that you're saving there will,you will be subtracted at the
other end of your, your life byby, uh, by a factor of something
.
Yeah, so, uh, so it's uh.
And those 24 years I must alsosay is that if you do these
things from you are 40 years old, you know so and and so there,
(43:00):
and even if you start changingyour lifestyle when you're 60,
there's I think it was 16 or 18years that you will live longer.
So you would, essentially, ifyou, even if you had a poor
lifestyle until you're 60, youcould kind of double your
remaining lifetime if you startusing and changing your
(43:21):
lifestyle.
And I know because I did that.
You know I used to weigh 40pounds more than I do today.
I used to not exercise at all.
I used to drink alcohol more orless every day, not caring
about sleep, food, anything, soso until my father died then, 10
years ago, then I understood Ihave to change everything around
.
So it's possible.
(43:43):
And of course, it's motivatingwhen you can see from your
wearables that you can see theresult in real time.
Then it gets more motivating todo the cold plunges, for
example.
To do the fasting when you seethat the effect is good on your
heart rate variability.
To do the fasting when you seethat the effect is good on your
heart rate variability.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
You know, and with the wearables do you see, you
know, just kind of in yourexperience, you see the future
of healthcare kind of evolving,you know.
Do you think HRV monitoringcould be in more of a mainstream
practice with healthcare?
Speaker 2 (44:14):
Yeah, yeah, I'm sure it's already happening at a
massive scale in Norway.
I'm not sure how it is in theUS, but I think in Scandinavia
people are taking control oftheir health.
You know, to see these numbersyou have to be able to, to track
(44:37):
it, to measure it to yourself.
So it's kind of a major shift,then, from the power being in
the doctor's hands and thehealth care system's hands and
into your own hands literally,and from after you get sick
until avoid getting sick in thefirst place.
So, and now we know also somuch more about it and that
there is money to be made, youknow the problem in the health
(44:59):
care system is that there's toomuch money in sick people.
You know, like your parents, youknow there's too much money in
having sick people on lifelongmedications for 20-30 years.
You know, maybe a multiple alot of them would have five, six
, six, seven, eight differentmedications.
And now the good thing aboutthese wearables is that there is
(45:24):
money to be made to help peopleavoid getting sick.
And that's quite upliftingbecause you need to follow the
money.
There needs to be somefinancial money to be made on
healthy people.
So that, I think, is one of thebig changers in this.
Speaker 1 (45:44):
I.
It was years ago this has hadto be like 10 years ago where we
had insurance through my,through my job, and they did
this program and they don't doit anymore.
But you, if you had I think itwas fitbit at the time, if you
had a fitbit and it might havebeen even apple watch as well
(46:05):
but you can connect it to yourinsurance and they can see, like
all of the activity that you'redoing in your heart or whatever
.
And if you were healthy, youactually paid less and and I was
like that, yeah, I'm like that,I'm doing the work now, like
it's I'm making.
You know, I'm I'm actuallycontributing to not causing the
healthcare system to be overrunby people and so I'm kind of
(46:29):
getting rewarded for that and Ithought that was cool.
And then they changed it overand it didn't.
I don't know why they did that,but they don't have that
anymore anymore.
But I think some people stillhold that to today and, um, it's
, what is it for?
We were talking about anotherpodcast 4.8 trillion dollars in
the united states of what we pay, uh, yearly on health care yeah
(46:51):
, yeah it's.
Speaker 2 (46:52):
I think it's the one of the most expensive health
care systems in the world andyou're not getting the results
from it.
Oh, it's, uh, yeah, and ofcourse, of course.
And this system, so it's likethat a system that makes money
on solving a problem willmaintain the problem that it's
(47:13):
the solution to, you know.
So it's kind of an unconscious,but you know, mechanism in
these systems.
So it will stay that way untilthere's more money to be made,
you know, and keeping peoplehealthy.
So take care of it now.
(47:34):
Of course, you would save themoney on the insurance by doing
those steps on the Fitbit, butyou will save years of your life
.
You know, with experiences andlife on the planet, you know
that's probably worth more thanmoney.
Speaker 1 (47:48):
Yeah, absolutely.
And lastly, is there anythingthat you're currently working on
or some future projects comingup that you're excited about?
Speaker 2 (48:01):
some future projects coming up that you're excited
about.
Yeah, right now I'm finishingmy book in Norwegian, though, so
if it gets translated intoEnglish I don't know but it's
about rest.
The rest cure is about how toimprove your ability to rest and
to do the recovery work,because that seems to be the
hardest thing for people.
So it's kind of more like adeep dive into the rest part of
(48:22):
the pulse cure.
That chapter in the pulse cureis probably like 15 pages, you
know, and now it's kind of 150pages on that subject.
Speaker 1 (48:32):
Yeah, that's cool, I think, like you said, I feel
like rest and just play ingeneral, you know, is we don't
get enough of that.
We're too focused on theday-to-day, our works, our jobs,
getting here, getting there,you know, and then when we get
home we watch Netflix or we geton the couch and we get too
(48:53):
comfortable with that.
But devoting the time to likereally rest, recover but also
play Any other future projectsyou're thinking of or events
coming up for you?
Speaker 2 (49:07):
Yeah, well, I will, of course, run the New York
Marathon soon, so I'm excited tosee New York and see how that
will be.
And then I'm also actually goingto start.
Just in a new book, it's aboutthe sun, because the sun
exposure, the sun, has got a badrap you know for for being
dangerous, but it seems that wehave forgotten to look at the
(49:29):
positive sides of of the energyfrom the sun that is,
cooperating with our skin, withour hormones, and improving our
function.
Of course, you know we, we are aspecies developed under the sun
for millions of years and andwe have learned to use the
energy from the sun.
You know it's electromagneticenergy.
(49:50):
You know, entering our cells,that half of the sun energy is
infrared light that willpenetrate maybe five, six, seven
centimeters into our bodies anddoing a lot of good work.
So the the price of scaringpeople about melanoma and the
(50:11):
reason why we try to stay out ofthe sun has also a huge price,
you know.
So we don't get the benefitseither from the sun.
So and now the research is veryclear on that that that is so
much heart disease that comesfrom the lack of of sun actually
.
So so I'm really lookingforward to start that project
(50:34):
and to dive into the all themisconceptions about sun,
sunshine and the dangers ofsunshine and the lack of
exploration of the benefits.
Speaker 1 (50:43):
Those both sound awesome.
I do want to have a quickfollow-up to that, just out of
curiosity.
You know a lot of places thatare health, wellness studios,
fitness places, are nowinstalling infrared lights,
infrared saunas.
Is that a comparable in termsof benefits or it's kind of like
(51:05):
a cash cow of like a fancything?
That kind of works.
Speaker 2 (51:10):
No, it should work.
Yeah, I need to go into thesubject more, but it seems to
work.
Yeah, so it's the same sameenergy, some energy uh race, you
know, and the same uhfrequencies that they use, that
is from the, from the sun, sunrays.
So it should be uh, should beuseful, you know, and and you
(51:34):
can see also that the researchcan show that the mitochondria
work better with the infraredexposure.
Speaker 1 (51:45):
Awesome, that's super interesting, so I'm going to be
excited.
Hopefully these next two booksget translated to English so I
can take a read at them.
But, torkel, thank you so much.
Where can people find you viasocial media or website?
I'm on social media.
I'm Dr Torkel.
Thank you so much.
Where can people find you viasocial media or website?
Speaker 2 (52:01):
I'm on social media.
I'm Dr Torkel.
I'm drtorkel and of course, mybook is on Amazon and also an
audio book for people who liketo listen to books.
And we also have a websitecalled thepulsecurecom, where
you can see.
I have a free one-hour lecturethere where I can tell you and
(52:24):
show you how you can use yourGarmin watch to micromanage your
stress and identify the kind ofenergy thieves that you maybe
was not aware of.
Speaker 1 (52:33):
Awesome.
Thank you, man.
I appreciate you.
You know I know it's late inNorway right now, but I
appreciate you coming on to thepodcast and thanks for everybody
listening to another episode ofthe Primal Foundations podcast.
Thank you all for joining us.
If you enjoyed this episode,don't forget to subscribe, like
and share.
(52:54):
See you all next time on thePrimal Foundations podcast.
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