Episode 44: Building a Fitness Community with Lauren Zallis

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
and welcome to an episode of the primal
foundations podcast, where wetalk strength, movement,
nutrition and recovery.
Our guest today is lauren zelis, aka the duchess of bells.
That's right, lauren is theopera operator and owner of
shift performance.
Chicago's only kettlebell gymand she is a strong only

(00:23):
kettlebell gym and she is aStrong First Kettlebell 1
instructor, certified MentalPerformance Consultant,
corrective and PerformanceExercise Specialist, licensed
Professional Counselor and HeadVarsity Girl Soccer Coach at Oak
Park River Forest High School.
You do it all.

Speaker 2 (00:43):
What do they say?
Master of all trades or jack ofall trades, master of none?
I guess it's a lot of labels,yeah.

Speaker 1 (00:51):
Holding a lot of hats , you know, but I'm excited to
get you on the podcast.
We've been trying to get you onfor a while and now we're in
the studio, which is awesome.
I know it's intimidating in thestudio, which is awesome, I
know it's intimidating.
Uh, I want to start off by kindof giving some background about
how we met, which it was acrazy weaving thing of how we

(01:12):
met.
I don't know if you want tostart it off yeah, fate, uh,
yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:16):
So I worked as a coach at chicago primal gym,
which is formerly chicago's onlykettlebell gym, and it had to
have been what?
2015 wow, yeah 2016 I think umyou remember oh yeah, yeah, um,
and so I would just have randomcoaching hours on the floor.

(01:37):
I remember seeing you there,but like only interacting in
kind of like a coach athletecapacity right with group
training, and then paths crossedagain because you're at Latin.

Speaker 1 (01:49):
Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 (01:50):
And you needed somebody to fill in for a
paternal leave.

Speaker 1 (01:56):
Was that it?
Yeah, we had a paternity leaveand I had to fill in for a
physical education teacher andI'm the department chair and I'm
just looking through resumestrying to figure out.
Right, we got to hire somebodyas uh did I apply for that?

Speaker 2 (02:09):
was that online?
Did I submit my application?

Speaker 1 (02:11):
you had to uh.

Speaker 2 (02:14):
I forgot if it was like a reach out or whatever.

Speaker 1 (02:16):
Yeah, so no, yeah, I saw.
I saw the name and I'm lookingat it and I go, I like, I feel
like I know this name and all Idid.
The first thing I did was justGoogle Lauren Zalas.
And all of a sudden, you justsee a one-arm swing with a bell
like this and a big picture.
I go, oh yeah, I'm going to tryto hire her for sure I remember
that.
Yeah, so I looked over yourresume.
You had a knockout resume andthen I ended up reaching out to

(02:39):
you interviewing and then we hadyou stay on or come on to the
team teaching PE classes, whichwe loved having you, and then
you actually stayed on longerafter the fact.

Speaker 2 (02:51):
Trying to just get the position grounded.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:54):
You did an awesome job and it's just so crazy, as
we were talking in the officeand everything, you're like oh
yeah, I run workout classes outof where was it at again oh the,
it was formerly like a crossfitgym island cross.

Speaker 2 (03:10):
Yes, yeah and it it emptied out into like goose
island was only on the firstfloor and then I rented space
from somebody who's like therenter primary renter of the
second floor and I was justtrying to like hustle up a
business.
At that point it was like I Ihad a semi-set schedule and then
it was like as the businesskept getting more members, it

(03:33):
just like the schedule became alittle bit more like diversified
and a little bit more permanentyeah yeah.
So it was there, yeah, and youstarted coaching some classes
for me at that place when Ineeded a break.

Speaker 1 (03:45):
Yeah, I was.
I always think the dynamic islike cause I was your boss for a
little bit.
Yep, but then you were my bossfor a little bit too, and I was
just like, oh, this is supercool.
You're like, do you want tocoach some bells?
I'm like, hell yeah, I want tocoach bells.

Speaker 2 (04:03):
It's also.

Speaker 1 (04:04):
Me too.

Speaker 2 (04:04):
Yeah, okay, it's such a weird, I don't know it's, the
structure is hard when you getto something like that Cause
you've had so many relationshipsis like yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:15):
So but yeah, it was just a crazy thing.
And now you're, you're launched, you've launched your own own
gym and everything which isamazing we outgrew the space
that I was renting from her and,uh god, yeah.
So now we're at a space onlincoln in north center, so
awesome yeah um, I want to kindof go take a little bit of a

(04:37):
step back to your athleticcareer and your background of,
like, what sports were youplaying?
How did you get into fitnessyou know kind of getting into
before you started becoming likea trainer.

Speaker 2 (04:48):
Buckle up, buckle up people this one's gonna be a
long, long-winded answer therewe go.

Speaker 1 (04:52):
We might run out of tape um, okay, played soccer.

Speaker 2 (04:57):
I started playing soccer when I was seven and it
was the one sport.
That there's this big thing nowwhere parents are trying to
diversify their kids' sports andthey want to, I only wanted to
play soccer ever.
So from I remember, from sevenyears old on, the first time I
stepped on a soccer field.
It was just this like smalllittle rec league in Tulsa,

(05:20):
oklahoma, and a littleseven-year-old, lauren, went out
and played for the first timeand I remember coming off the
field and being like I love this, like I can't get enough of
this, and so therein began thejourney into soccer.
And so, like I said, I triedother sports but I never felt

(05:42):
competent would probably be agood word.
It never felt like it's natural.
So played soccer, played club,eventually got a scholarship to
play at Northern ArizonaUniversity.

Speaker 1 (05:53):
All right.

Speaker 2 (05:53):
So Division I school.
Between eighth grade and mysenior year of college, I had
six knee surgeries.

Speaker 1 (06:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (06:08):
So I understand the importance of diversifying your
activity now because, I feellike a lot of my injuries could
have come from overuse and a lotof my journey and I'll get into
this is hindsight has been20-20 for me and I'll get into
this as hindsight has been 2020for me.
So it's almost like after Ihave the experience, then I have

(06:29):
this like learning epiphanyabout the experience and that
learning epiphany kind of helpsme guide my athletes, exercisers
, the people that I work withnow.
So a lot of the experience thatI've had has helped kind of
carve out what I want my gym tobe like or what kind of uh

(06:52):
counselor I want to be.
So ultimately, I tore my firstACL in eighth grade, um, and
then I had three surgeries on myright knee between eighth grade
and my sophomore year of highschool and I never wanted to
stop playing Like I.
I just there's something in methat was just like the passion
for the sport.
People talk about flow andsometimes you can achieve it in

(07:16):
meditation.
That's probably the closestthing that I've ever experienced
to soccer, where you just getin this state where, like
nothing else matters, you couldhave the worst day in the world
you could have.
You know, I remember it didn'tmatter homework, breakups,
friend things, family things,whatever I could get on the
soccer field and I could losemyself and whatever you know.

(07:37):
It was like just this perfectlittle universe that nothing
else mattered but the game Right.
So three surgeries on my rightknee from eighth grade,
sophomore year, and then um gotinto college no injuries.
Between my sophomore year ofhigh school and then my
sophomore year of college I toremy other ACL and it was like
surgery, rehab, get back to thefield, but nobody was pressuring

(08:00):
me, nobody was rushing rushingme, but like I just wanted to
play so much that it was like Iwill as soon as I can get back
on the field, like put me incoach, right?
Um.
So tore my other acl mysophomore year of college and
then had two subsequent likesmaller tissue surgeries my
junior and senior year and then,uh, my senior year.

(08:22):
My injury was so early on thatI could have taken a red shirt
and played a fifth year and Iremember my body just responding
to me in that I was going totry for it.
And the end of my senior year,my body responding and just
being like I don't know thatthis is a good long term
solution because things keephappening Right, so you might

(08:43):
love it.
Long-term solution becausethings keep happening.
Right, so you might love it.
You might not like mentally bedone with it, but physically
your body's telling you to likeslow down and, um, I had to
start listening because I wasliterally breaking down, right,
so, um, enter in.
I wanted to pursue, uh, sportspsychology, uh, selfishly,
because I wanted to understand,like, how to cope with that.

(09:08):
Like my, my body is a 21 yearold, not being able to do the
thing I want to do.

Speaker 1 (09:13):
Your identity.
Yes, your identity is soccer,so rolled in there.

Speaker 2 (09:17):
Yeah, and like, like I said, I was so into it that
like that's it's how I made alot of my friends.
It's how I, my family, movedaround a couple of times between
, um uh running joke, my family,we've never lived in a house
for longer for five than fiveyears.
And so, um, when I was six, wemoved.

(09:38):
When I was eight, we moved whenI was 13, we moved and these
are like big moves across thecountry.
Iived in Tulsa, lived inSeattle, lived in Chicago, and
so it made me friends, it mademe feel secure, it was like
something that I felt like justmy foundation was in it and I
knew that, no matter what, likeI'd have teammates that were

(09:58):
friends and yeah, so it was just, it rolled into every part of
my identity.
Um, and so losing that is uh,it's kind of shocking and
jarring and probably one of thefirst like real big transitions
for me.
Where it was, it was like hard,it was like depressing.
So, um, yeah, trying to figureout the mental side of that

(10:21):
pushed me into sports psychology.
Um, and then that's a great,that's a great attribute to have
when you own your own gym,because a lot of times, private
clients, group sessions, evenpeople, when they start moving
their bodies.
You know you release energy andyou know you get moving and
things surface for people, andso to be able to understand that

(10:45):
and understand the mental andemotional side of it was, I
think, a pretty cool thing.

Speaker 1 (10:51):
So if, if you can look back at you, know your
younger years, as you'restarting, as you've gone through
, like specializing in you knowsports psychology, and you can
look back at yourself at thatage when you were starting to
lose that identity as a soccerplayer, what advice would you
give yourself?

Speaker 2 (11:09):
Man, that's a great question, tough one right, yeah
yeah, totally.
I would probably say that thisis one part of you.

(11:32):
This is not the whole part ofyou, and there are going to be
different parts of you as youjourney through your life that
are going to come up, that aregoing to surprise you.
You know there are going to bethings that you learn about
yourself.
Another one I love cooking,right, so, and really like the
nutrition piece falls into thefitness piece as well, but like

(11:55):
that's something that I identifywith now, like I love, like
that is a hobby that I love, andso, like you will face or you
will find different things thatadd to you, right, and so it
might feel like all your eggsare in one basket at the time
because you have such a.

(12:16):
You know, me at 34, almostforgot my age 34 has more lived
experience than me at 18, whichyou know has a much more limited
view of the world and limitedexperience, right.
So it feels like everything atthat time because you can't see

(12:36):
the future.
But there will be other thingsthat you experience and like
parts of yourself that you willbegin to identify with that are
surprising or new, you know.
So, um, yeah, don't feel likethat Once that's gone.

Speaker 1 (12:50):
That was the only part of you, so yeah, and where
does your mindset or methodologyof training start to kind of
veer off into this?
You know functional kettlebelltraining.

Speaker 2 (13:05):
Totally Okay.
I believe that when I was incollege they didn't train like
the mobility piece of it.
So a lot of lifts we were doingand by no means are these bad
lifts, I think there aredifferent lifts that have their,
uh, their time and their placeand their purpose, Right.

(13:25):
So we were doing a lot ofbarbell power lifts.
So a lot of clean snatches,front squats, um, and bench
press, which I disagree with ina soccer capacity, Like I mean
you know, maybe I'm getting agood stiff arm every once in a
while, but, like um, so themovements that I felt like I was
training with weren't superfunctional and, uh, they were

(13:50):
explosive and they were powerful, but they didn't involve a lot
of variety like rotation,lateral movement, change of
direction, and maybe when wewere conditioning there was, you
know, sprints, change ofdirection, stuff, um, but one of
the things that I felt like was, um, as my training career

(14:11):
advanced, or my coaching careeradvanced in in the physical body
, um, I started learning aboutthings like hip cars, right or
so we're talking about beingable to identify, or like, how a
joint has a very like, what ismy range of motion at my head
and what is my potential for therange of motion and then how

(14:34):
much control do I have over thatrange of motion.
Things like that aren't taughtat the.
They could be now, when I wasplaying, in my personal
experience, we weren't taughtabout, like, the mobility side
of it as much, and so it waslike putting a lot of weight on
your back and trying to lift asmuch as you could.

(14:55):
Um, but not learning about like, should I be moving that much?
Can my body tolerate that much?
Um, something very small coreengagement, right, we talk about
like tilting of the pelvis andelevation depression of the rib
cage.
So, like I didn't know, until Iwas done with 24 years old, I

(15:16):
remember learning this I didn'tknow how to engage my core.
I just always thought it waslike you know and I don't know,
like how I'm doing that, but I'mjust doing it Like nobody
taught me the small fundamentalthings that are so important to
movement.
And so when I started learning,like oh wow, these small things

(15:38):
actually add up to how you movein a much larger capacity, like
that wasn't taught then.
But as I learned it, I was likeif I would have known that then
maybe I could have preventedsome of my injuries, maybe I
would have lifted smarter, maybeI would have moved better,
maybe I would have recoveredfaster if I had these tools.

(15:59):
So it was kind of like, oh wow,I know this now.
If I would have known it, thenmaybe it would have been
different.
And I don't regret any of that,for, you know, I think
everybody in my sphere was doingthe best they could with the
knowledge that they had.
But, like now, I see some ofthese things as being
fundamental to how we move.

(16:21):
And so, really, my gym now Imean kettlebells are awesome and
they're so functional becauseyou can move with them in so
many different planes of motionyou can.
There are so many differentfocal points.
You can get power, you can getendurance, you can get.
You know, what have you I justwant people to have longevity in

(16:42):
their movement because,honestly, that's what I'm
striving for is longevity andalso, I would say, with that,
becoming aware of their own body, because when you start to
generate these moments ofawareness and the kettlebell is
a great tool to do that becauseof how technical, it can be um,
yeah, that's, that's soempowering I think with.

Speaker 1 (17:03):
I think this is really good to hear, especially
if there's coaches listening tothis, if there's young athletes
listening to this too.
It's really cool looking in acollege weight room on Instagram
, right, when everybody'sstanding around and they're
doing these big barbell cleansand everybody's going crazy.
But I'm looking at the cleansand I'm just like that, don't

(17:26):
look right.

Speaker 2 (17:28):
So true.

Speaker 1 (17:30):
It's like and I tell this to everybody, especially
now that I'm like working withmore youth athletes it's like
I'll see them squat on a barbellor do something.
And I'm like they're like, yeah, I did it.
I was like well, if your goalis to get the weight from here
to here, yes, you achieved that.
You did it.
Great, it didn't look good, butyou did it.

(17:51):
And some of those barbell lifts, especially the Olympic ones,
like people spend their entirecareers like as an Olympic
lifter to master a few skills.
Yes, and you're like a freshmanor sophomore in college never
did before.

Speaker 2 (18:06):
All right, clean it up, let's go well and you want
to like the social media piecetoo.
Like it looks cool, that's whatyou're after, that's what
you're motivated by, and like,um, but the the tiny details of
that.
Like you can't.
If I'm doing like a front squat, you know you're not gonna.
I'm not gonna be cuing you onhow to hold like.
You know you're not gonna.
I'm not gonna be cuing you onhow to hold.

(18:26):
Like in the video You're notseeing how somebody's like
maintaining their core tensionor like, yeah, there are just so
many little things.
And also the fitness industry,too, is like I.
There is this interplay of youwant to build a business and you
want to service more members.

(18:48):
But does more membersnecessarily equate to quality
service?
Because if I'm getting moremembers in and less eyes on
those members, like am I goingto be able to really give people
the individual attention thatthey need in order to feel

(19:10):
what's going on in their body?
And then?
So I also think like, oh, it'sso.
That is one of the most um,difficult things as a small
business owner is like you wantthe capacity to grow, but you
want to do it the right.
Like you want the capacity togrow, but you want to do it the
right way and you don't want tolose your values in that.
And I think, like at those big,like if you see a big college

(19:35):
weight room or whatever, um, youknow, unless you have like very
specialized and individualizedcoaches for certain sports and
things like that, like a lot ofthose people are working crazy
hours, they have a lot of teams,they have a lot of bodies.
They have a lot of people and Ican't imagine that having, I

(19:56):
mean, I don't know how big afootball team is, but like 60
players on a football team thatare all on the same training
program yeah, that is like, andthen good coaches will find ways
to give people cues andindividualize it.
But it is hard, you know, likethere's this contradiction
between growth and numbers andlike also individualizing.
So, yeah, maintaining yourvalues and knowing what's

(20:18):
important.

Speaker 1 (20:19):
That is a struggle for me, even as, yeah, I worked
my way through on a gym Ifyou're lucky enough to be like,
uh, you know, university,alabama, michigan, and you can
have four or five or sixstrength coaches, just for the
football team, that's one.

Speaker 2 (20:35):
That's the way to do it.
Great that's awesome.

Speaker 1 (20:37):
and then they got ipads on there and they're on
the, on the racks and they canlike like, here's my program,
here's where my percentages are,and people do it right for sure
.
But then you have those smallerdivision one or division three,
teams or schools that will haveone strength coach for the
tennis, the rowers, the everyone, and that's very difficult.

Speaker 2 (20:58):
We had one strength coach and maybe, like that
strength coach had twoassistants and so if you and I
was at a division one school,like that's nuts, so yeah, it's.
And like I said, no, no fault.
I think they're doing the bestthey can, you know, with what
they have but, yeah.

Speaker 1 (21:17):
Yeah, so you start finding bells.
And how did you even like findkettlebells?

Speaker 2 (21:21):
Oh, this is a good question.
Um, so, uh, I worked while Iwas going to grad school for
sports psychology.
I actually worked in Equinoxand I was like the grunt of the
Equinox, so I was like thelowest one on the totem pole.
They're like come in 20 hours aweek towel service, hand them
out to members, try and buildyour business that way, like

(21:44):
we'll try and filter in people,you know what.
And it was a good experiencebecause, uh, at the place I was
at in particular, they did areally good job of like coaches,
education.
So there were a lot ofworkshops where I got to like
dig into, you know, differentelements of fitness and things
like that and learn from thepeople that were co-workers.
And so I had that experience.

(22:08):
And then when I graduated fromgrad school so it was kind of
the thing that was like pat inmy pockets right while I was in
grad school and then when Igraduated, somebody reached out
to me I can't remember who.
I wish I remember who, becausethis is a good life move.
But, um, and they said, hey,there's a training studio on the
North shore, it's calledredefine fitness.

(22:29):
Um, it's in Wilmette.
Uh, I think you'd be a good fitfor it.
They're looking for a coach.
Do you want to do you want togo?
So I was like I'll interviewfor sure.
So I went up there and, uh,ended up staying there for three
years and they really valuedfunctional fitness.
Your body is the thing thatyou're moving against gravity.
So it was more.

(22:50):
It was getting closer to thething that I wanted to work with
, or the elements of fitnessthat I was embracing in my own
body Right, and so I did privatesessions.
I did small group sessions.
Their group classes were likeno bigger than six.
It was a grind.
I am telling you, 50 to 60 hourweeks, but that's like 50 to 60

(23:13):
FaceTime with clients.
And so when, like when you'rein the fitness industry, an hour
is an hour of like FaceTimewith that person.
So like you have 50 of those aweek.
That's not like the program,including programming for people
.
So I was grinding right and Iwas.

(23:36):
It was like my first big personjob, you know, like out of
school, whatever Enough to paythe bills, live independently.
I was feeling really good aboutmyself, but the hours I was
putting in were like burning meout, so much so that, like I
remember when I would takevacations, like Christmas or
whatever.
I would take my first day offand immediately the next day

(24:00):
after I rested I would get sickbecause my body was just like go
, go, go, go go.
Then, when I had time to rest,it was, like you know, the
floodgates opened, right.
So, uh, three years of that andI was like, oh, I don't know,
should I keep going with this?
It was I was pushing myself atthe time.
Also, I had gotten back intosoccer after school.

(24:23):
So, like I was learning moreabout fitness, I was trying to
do my own like rehab.
I was, you know, looking atthings.
I'd torn an ACL in my right legagain that I never got fixed
after college.
So, yeah, I was rehabbingmyself.
I started playing morerecreationally, just for fun,

(24:48):
rehabbing myself.
I started playing morerecreationally, just for fun, um
, and one of my buddies at thetime was like, uh, hey, like
there's an opportunity for youto play semi-pro.
Chicago's creating Chicago cityis creating the semi-pro team.
Would you want to try out?
I'm like there's that side ofme, you know, knocking on the
door again Like, hey, you lovethis yeah and um and again.

(25:10):
like this is after my body.
I didn't want to keep playingcollege because my body kept
sending me the message of likeNope, you got to pump the brakes
, but that ego was like get ityou know, like you, want this,
do this.
So, um, you know like you wantthis, do this, so enter in.
I wanted a person who wouldtrain me for being ready for

(25:31):
that experience.
Okay, so I had reached out to aclassmate that I had, whose
husband at the time owned or wasa co-owner of Chicago Primal
Gym, and so ultimately I sawthis, you know, coach Grant
Anderson and I, you know, Istarted training with him to get

(25:57):
stronger for trying out for asemi-pro team.
So, yeah, so I'm working thesecrazy hours.
I want this coach to like getme ready for soccer.
And he starts training me withkettlebells and I was like, what
am I doing?

(26:17):
This is like how trainingshould be.
I left sessions withkettlebells feeling like I get
better than when I walked in.
My body was moving better, itfelt like things were flowing.
I, I just I would leave feelingworked but also not in pain,

(26:41):
which was new for me, Cause,like strength training before,
with my joints, with my knees,it was like, oh, I'm a little
achy.
Pedal bells were the thing.

Speaker 1 (26:51):
How many people can say that as they walk out of the
gym in certain places, thatthey feel better when they leave
, which is an anomaly, becausemost gyms are like, if you're
not on the floor, dying at theend.
It wasn't a good class.

Speaker 2 (27:05):
And you and me both know that once you get in the
mindset of I have to feel like Ijust killed myself in that
class, when you get in thatmindset and that's what your
expectation becomes for what agood workout is.
You are not affiliating yourworkout with how you feel and
like where you're feeling thingsin your body.

(27:25):
You're just affiliatingatingyour workout with how you feel
in it, like where you're feelingthings in your body.
You're just affiliating a goodworkout with like oh, I blasted
myself, you know, and that's notwhat people need a hundred
percent of the time, Like sure,there's a time and a place for
it, but if that's your traininga hundred percent of the time, I
would venture to say you'retraining incorrectly and you
should check engine light shouldbe going on, you know.

(27:47):
So yeah, kettlebells wereleaving me feeling better when I
left them, when I walked in,and I was noticing it
significantly on the soccerfield, with no ACL in one leg.
So like I was noticing thedifferences in an injured state

(28:07):
and imagine what the differencescould be if you were like
healthy body, you know, like notprevious surgeries, whatever.
So I was amazed at what thatwas giving my body and I like
looked at this other gym that Iwas at and I was like, oh my God
, shit, I know better now.
So I got to do better.

(28:28):
I got to change the way I'mtraining because like this is it
, Like this is, and, yeah, thisis, this is where it's at so,
fast forward, started playing alittle bit of semi-pro I owe a
lot of that to kettlebells andmy experience in training with
Grant and I left my other gymbecause I was like kettlebells

(28:56):
are where I need to be.
This is, this is amazing.
So they had a position open upat Chicago Primal Gym and then
it was much nicer than 50 or 60hour weeks.
It was like a normal let's go40 hour work week.
Only 20 hours of that were onthe floor.
The other 20 were like all theother things that you know

(29:16):
coaches do at the gym.
And so, yeah, it like almostbrought like more balance to my
life instead of these like hugeups and downs.
It was just like, oh, okay,Like kettlebells are finding me
balance in like both the sport Iwant to play and in the work
that I want to do.

Speaker 1 (29:35):
Yeah, it's like every trainer goes through kind of
this whole thing.
It's like I need to get clients, I need to get as many you know
touch points as I can, but youfind out very like, very fast,
like wow, I can't sustain thisanymore.
And then this is why a lot ofpeople just leave training to do
burnout for sure, yeah, yeah,yep.

(29:55):
Now you've uh, you've gotteninto kettlebells.
You start working at a gym.
You know we go through a wholeyou know COVID thing gym
shutting down.
Gyms are.
You know, everything's virtualand this and that, and we start
to kind of come out of this andnow you have this idea of, like
I want to create shiftperformance, the Chicago's only

(30:19):
kettlebell gym.
You know, at this point, andyou know why, did you feel like
this is the?
I know that you said a lot ofthe things about kettlebells,
but like, why put two feet downon this niche?
Um, and you think that this isgoing to work in the city?

Speaker 2 (30:34):
oh, I've been trying to get out of the training
industry for years, like um.
Being in the training industrywas not like my end game when I
started, so first I was a PEteacher then In Arizona, right?

Speaker 1 (30:50):
Yeah, yeah, I remember your resume.
Yeah, flag staff Arizona, right.

Speaker 2 (30:57):
Yeah.
And so then after that, withthe mentals, like the sports
psych stuff, the psychologicalside of things, that was the
route I really wanted to pursue,because I felt that I had like

(31:23):
lived in this physical body,that I'm learning it really well
and I'm understanding it reallywell, but the the psychological
part was always felt like maybemore of a challenge, like I
didn't understand enough.
So I was always really curiousabout it and I wanted to keep
pursuing it and learning aboutit.
So I really was pushing to gointo sports psychology and I I

(31:46):
was pushing to go that way.
And then it was like, oh, butyou're going to be at, uh, you
know, chicago primal gym andyou're going to be a coach there
.
And I loved that and like, uh,I had a good foundation there.
And then it was like COVIDhappened Jim started shutting
down.
And then it was like I, I wantto go the sports psychology

(32:09):
route, but the opportunityhonestly for training people was
so like it was almost like itjust like landed in my lap and
it was like take this, likethere are so many people right
now who don't have access togyms or to kettlebells
specifically in gyms, and youhave, you know, a network of

(32:31):
people who are looking to getback to training in person.
Why wouldn't you do this?

Speaker 1 (32:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (32:37):
So it like wasn't my number one passion, but it was
something I was still passionateabout.
So yeah, it was.
It wasn't scary, like I knewthat upon making the decision
that I would have at least 25 to30 people off the top of my

(32:57):
head that would train with me.
And so COVID was really like abranching out point for me where
it was like, all right, just doit Like you've had, you've
acquired, you were at.
You know your background isjust do it Like you've had,
you've acquired, you were at.
You know your background is inphysical education.
Like you've you've done all theclasswork for that.
You've trained it in Equinox.

(33:17):
You trained at a small, youknow gym on the North shore.
You trained at CPG.
Like you, you've coached allthese places and you've seen all
these different modalities ofbusiness and how different
people ran their business andthe different levels.
And I got I.
It was awesome, cause I got tosee like there wasn't one way
that worked, there were lots ofdifferent things that worked.
And so, from each place I wasat, I could pick and choose.

(33:40):
Like I like this, I don't likethis, I would change that, I do
want to do that.
And so by the time I was likeokay, I got the people like I
just need to find a place, let'sgo.
And so that place in the GooseIsland CrossFit that building
teammate former teammate fromthe semi-pro team she was the
one who was primary renter ofthe space and so once she said I

(34:03):
could sub-rent from her,sub-lease from her I was like
all right, it's on, just make aschedule and go.
And actually the I was like allright, it's on, just make a
schedule and go.
And actually the ironic partabout this is I actually, when I
was doing most of the work,like the groundwork of the
website and putting thingstogether, I had COVID.
So it was like there were liketwo or three weeks where I was
like isolated in bed and Icouldn't move and whatever.

(34:24):
So I was like I can just likebuild everything now.
So like it's weird how likecertain situations or scenarios
happen in the world that likelead to so like I was settled
and I couldn't do anything and Iwas sick.
So I was like all right, well,like if I'm gonna sit around,
maybe I'll sit around and likestart uploading things for like
how I want the gym to look andwhatever.

(34:45):
So, and then it just like ithappened.
And now we're like three yearsinto it.
I I still have these momentswhere I'm like I get to wake up
and do something that is so fun,and not only that, but see
people that I, I genuinely loveevery person that comes to the

(35:05):
gym and, like I, it's so likecrazy to me.

Speaker 1 (35:10):
I, yeah, I'm very lucky, yeah I always remember
the uh the article that came outand I think it was it was
either gq or men's health whereit was like the great uh
kettlebell shortage, the greatkettlebell shortage of 2020,
because you're right, like theopportunity, like a lot of if

(35:30):
you had your already, like ifyou're in the space and you were
already doing like virtualprogramming and virtual stuff,
like you were going gangbusters,like it just so happened
because everybody just went tothe gym, yeah, um, but then
people are getting.
You know, working from home, Ihave a kettlebell, I'm able to
work out, I don't have to goanywhere, it saves me time yeah

(35:51):
and I feel better and I movebetter, which is great.
So that whole shift, shift seewhat I did there.
That whole shift changed thegame for a lot of people,
businesses and gyms inparticular.
But how?
But there's a lot of gyms thatlike just didn't make it or just

(36:12):
decided we're going to shutdown, or what have you.
So now the opportunity comes by.
Now here's my question to youlike starting a business is hard
, especially like a fitnessspace.
Like you're competing againstbox gyms, crossfit, orange
Theories, all this stuff.
You know what were some of thechallenges that you had.
Starting a brick and mortarlocation?

Speaker 2 (36:34):
oh, okay, this first location, and I say first
because there will be anotherone.
I guarantee we'll do anotherone you heard it.
You heard it here um, I, uh, Igot so sick when it was going on

(36:55):
because of how stressed I was.
Like I, I, man, it was so manychallenges.
So, um, first it's like thewhole idea of um, so first it's

(37:15):
like the whole idea of.
There's a thought of Am I goingto, can I afford this?
Like, can I make ends meet?
And if nobody showed uptomorrow, what would I do?
Nobody showed up tomorrow, whatwould I do?
Like it's just a natural fearresponse of, like signing a

(37:35):
lease One.
Finding a space in the city ofChicago is very challenging If
you're ever going to open upyour own brick and mortar like
single location and you're notpart of a, you know, larger
company.
That I mean.
Finding a space that isconducive to a gym.
A lot of people don't want tobe neighbors with a gym.
A lot of landlords feel likeit's a liability to have a gym

(37:58):
in there because it's not.
You know, we've got a potterypainting studio next door, like
that's pleasant.
You know, there's always likenice, relaxing, music playing
and people are, you know, likecolors and relaxing and whatever
.
And like a gym is, you know, Ithink sometimes people think
liability, risk, whatever.
So one it's about finding alandlord that and love my

(38:20):
landlord where I'm at now, andso that's a challenge.
Integrating the space into whatyou want it to be is a
challenge, because a lot ofplaces that you look at I didn't
look at places that wereformerly gyms.
I looked at places that justhad, like, open spaces, because
you need a lot of, you know,area for kettlebells.

(38:41):
You're swinging weights around,so I didn't want things that
were closed off in lots of rooms, I just wanted big open space
and, ultimately, the build outfor the space, holy cow.
One it's a huge financialinvestment.
Two, like I don't know if youyou do know you've had

(39:04):
remodeling done before it nevergoes according to planner, on
time or within budget.
It never goes according toplanner, on time or within
budget.

Speaker 1 (39:10):
There's always something that goes wrong
Totally.

Speaker 2 (39:14):
So, like I, it was like the timing of you know, as
we transition from one space tothe other, the timing of, like,
the rent ending here and the youknow rent starting here, and
all my clients are they going tofollow me to this location?
And what if there's an extra xamount of money that needs to be

(39:34):
put put down?
And then are people gonna showup?
And so you, just you have alaundry list of things to worry
about.
But, like you, if you'reconvicted in the thing that
you're trying to bring people, I, I have a, an advisory board,
um, three people that I trust somuch and know things about

(39:56):
marketing and business that Inever learned because I'm a body
person.
Right, I'm not a, I'm not abusiness person.
I have no education in business, actually and I remember one
person on my board.
I was like, should I do this?
Like am I ready?
And he was like you don't haveto do anything.
You could, you could just donothing, like you could keep

(40:20):
things the way they are.
And when he said that to me, Iwas it like sparked something.
I was like, oh, I actually wantto do more.
Oh, I actually want to do more.
So the desire for wanting thatspace of my own and that next
step outweighed the fear that Ihad.
Even though the fear was great,the desire was greater, right?

(40:41):
So, um, yeah, yeah, I can keepgoing with other fears If you
need more than that.

Speaker 1 (40:48):
That was the top of the cake I'll never forget well,
because I remember like youwere still kind of working um at
the school with me, as likeyou're kind of making the
transition and we were talkingabout things in the build out,
and then like all of the stuffyou were talking about of like
yeah, I gotta get this done, Igotta get, uh, you know, the
floor's got to be pulled out andthe turf and this and that, and

(41:11):
I will never forget this is afunny story.
We're not going to mentionnames.
You already know where I'mgoing with this.
I'm not going to mention names.
The first day of classes I walkin and like I've seen the space
and it's cool, but we haven't,like you know, coached any
classes or whatever.
First day classes was likewhatever day.
And I walked in just to likesee everybody and check it out

(41:31):
and and I look at the corner ofone of the walls and it's got a
huge dead net and there'sdrywall on the floor and I'm
sitting there.
I'm like what is going on?
What happened?
Like I don't.
I'm like I'm thinking is thebuilding settling, like what's
going on?
And apparently somebody decidedto just drop something a
kettlebell on a handle and itjust took a chunk out of the

(41:55):
corner, and that's chunk day onetony.

Speaker 2 (42:00):
Tony walks in and he's like, oh my god, what
happened?

Speaker 1 (42:03):
I was like too soon yeah, yeah, I don't want to talk
about it.
I don't want to talk about it,but there's, there's those
things with buildings in likehaving you know, like all, like,
all right, where's?
I mean, you've moved the desklike three times.
You know.
We've moved the bells from theturf because, like it just
didn't really work out and we'rejust cutting turf, like why
don't we just put them on theother side of the?

Speaker 2 (42:25):
gym, where there's better space to utilize the.
That is another thing I'venoticed about the gym and this
is a big like psychologicalpiece as well.
Your environment matters, likefrom from the location of the
bells to the location of thefront desk, the.

(42:48):
Any athlete that has been ahigh level athlete their coach
will tell you what the detailsmatter, right?
So when you're like an elitelevel athlete, it's not huge.
You know differences in talentthat separate people.
It's how you manage your sleep,how well your your nutrition

(43:10):
profile, your recovery.
Are you doing your mobility onthe days to like flush out your
little things?
It's like the little thingsthat matter and that as a coach
and business owner, the way itseems like such a small thing
but it is such a big dealbecause that front desk Okay,

(43:34):
originally the placement of thefront desk when you walked in
the gym you walked in the frontdoor and then the desk was like
over here, right, and it waslike facing the front door at a
weird angle.

Speaker 1 (43:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (43:45):
Why didn't I like that the front desk should be in
front of the front door?
Why didn't I like that thefront desk should be in front of
the front door so when peoplewalk in, you can greet them by
name and say hey Susie, hey Joe,hi.
How are you doing todayRecognizing somebody by their
name when they walk into thespace, so that they feel like

(44:13):
into the space, so that theyfeel like, whoa, they remember
me here, they know me here, andwow, I really love the feeling
of that.
And when you're about to enterin into a mindful place of your
body or your workout, to knowthat the person that's leading
you has remembered your name,you has remembered your name,

(44:35):
knows how you move like,remembers that you had a first
date with you know somebody youmet online last week.

Speaker 1 (44:38):
How'd it go?
Yeah, totally.

Speaker 2 (44:39):
When you make those connections and people feel how
much you care, then when youcoach them, there's an emotional
component, a trust component, arapport component that I am
convinced.
I mean I can't give you.
I mean I could give you proofbased off of the way that
members are retained at the gym.

(45:00):
But like I can't give you.
Like you know, I haven't done astudy on it, but like that
emotional piece and again partof the sports psychology program
leads into, I think, a betterworkout for the member and so,
like, where the desk is placedmatters, where the bells are
placed matters right, becauseit's creating a flow of how we

(45:25):
use the space.

Speaker 1 (45:26):
So, yeah, oh yeah, yeah, there's one thing space.
So, yeah, details, oh yeah.
Yeah, there's one thing.
I've always taken this and I'vealways tried to um, this is
like more of like an educationalpiece with, like young athletes
in schools, but like evenyesterday I did the exact same
thing.
Uh, learn like classroommanagement, right and connection
and score test scores and allthat stuff.

(45:48):
They go up when the teachers goto the kids games no, yeah, I
believe it that's so cool,somebody actually looked at that
yes, oh, yeah.
So like if I have theopportunities to like go to
their game.
Like yesterday I stayed for theseventh game, I stayed for a
little bit the eighth grade game, just like when I want to see
them play in a different andit's a different thing.

(46:09):
Yeah, but they know that I'minvested in how they do.
Yeah, on the court, off thecourt, in class, outside of
class, like that is a is a waybetter, like I have more buy-in
from them and the athletes thanthan anything I do.
It's not even like how I teach.
It's like show up to.
Can you show up to my game?
Showing up, just and just andgo like ask me, that's so cool

(46:31):
yeah, 100 and that's what you'redoing with your people.
It's like you're asking themquestions.
You know them outside of thegym, inside the gym, and that's
building the community which ispeople like strive for.
That's what they want.
They want to go to a place theyfeel safe, they feel heard.
They you know where I am.
The old whole cheers likeeverybody knows my name.
Yeah, exactly, cue, the musictime, uh, but I want to talk

(46:54):
about this too, that becauseit's it's very unique.
So you're the.
It's called shift performance,uh, and, and shift is all
capitals and it's an acronym.
Can you talk about why younamed it this, why this acronym,
and how does that, like youknow, shape the experience of
the clients?

Speaker 2 (47:12):
Yeah, um.
So shift is an acronym for sethigher intentions for training.
Um, we touched on this a littlebit earlier.
One um group training can bevery random.
So, like I know, um, crossfithas like wads workout of the day
, right, so you go in, there's aworkout on the board, you have

(47:34):
to achieve 100 of this, 75 ofthat, 50 of this, 25 of this,
and then, like dude, run a mile,whatever you know.
Like there's like a numbersgame, right and um, before you
mentioned, like the kid who'sdoing the squat.
Well, well, you got the barfrom here to here, but did you
do it the right way?

Speaker 1 (47:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:55):
When the workout is focused on achieving a number or
an end goal, you're not focusedon the process, and so your
body is.
It's like it wants to get tothat end result with the lowest
utilization of energy possible,like we just want to do the task

(48:17):
right.
We just want to get it done.
And as a coach, I struggle withthat because I think a lot of
that mindset of do it get itdone, do it get it done led to
my injuries.
I, and like I, if, if you can'tbe in your body when you're

(48:40):
training, um, what's the purpose?
Like you know what I'm sayingand so, uh, for me, set higher
intentions for training is likewe work off of a program.
It's not a random workout ofthe day.
We're building towardssomething right.
And not only that, but like oneof the elements of my gym is

(49:07):
people have to take twointroductory classes before they
filter into group classes.
Right, why would I havesomebody do that?
Well, they learn the swing andthe get up, which are two
foundational movements for thegym.
They're so technical.
If you didn't know kettlebellsand you walked into a group

(49:29):
class and they're like okay,we're going to do a get up on
each side today and then you'regoing to do 20 swings and we're
going to keep repeating that foryou know however many minutes
and you didn't know those things.
Like you would feel so isolated.
You feel it's almost like thestereotype of the kid who gets
picked last in gym class.
You're like isolated, you're byyourself, you don't feel good.

(49:49):
You know that.
Like goes against everycommunity vibe that I'm trying
to create.
So spend a little extra timewith a person who's new.
Teach them the technique.
I say two classes.
One class, we focus exclusivelyon the swing.
One class we focus exclusivelyon the get up right on the swing

(50:13):
.
One class we focus exclusivelyon the get up right, and so you
have the individualized trainingthat then you take with you
into the group setting right, um, so yeah, and that set higher
intentions for training.
Like I don't want people to comeinto my gym and check out and
be like just tell me what to do,you know.
Just tell, just choose myweights for me.

(50:34):
Like I want people to come inand I want them to feel love and
I want them to feel support andI want them to like, go in and
then I want them to know whatlight means for them and I want
them to feel where they feellight, whatever we're doing.
Press squat, you know, you nameit in your body.
And then I, you know I wantthem to learn, I want them to

(50:57):
use it as an opportunity to getin touch with and in tune with,
probably because I felt like Iwanted to do that at some point
with my body and I felt likewhen I had the opportunity, I
had already like hadconsequences from not doing that
.
So, yeah, well, like reallyboils back to one thing I I for

(51:20):
a long time was really really umupset with myself and my body
that like it couldn't do thethings that I wanted it to do,
like I couldn't play soccer inthe way that I wanted to.
And like now I look back atthat and I'm like, literally,
lauren, I was just laying thegroundwork for what you do today

(51:42):
and why you're so passionateabout it.
And you can't see that whenyou're like, when you're in the
shit, you can't see.
Sometimes you can't see throughto the other side and you don't
know why and you don't have anexplanation and things feel like
super overwhelming.
But like I had that experience.
So now, like I, I can learnfrom it and hopefully I can help

(52:02):
other people's experiences bedifferent or better or you know
whatever you know, whatever, uh.

Speaker 1 (52:15):
So, yeah, it's, it's a lot of care too that I'm
hearing, because how many gymshave, like you have to take a
foundational class beforethey're like what, I want to
sign up for this gym, like letme do the thing, let me do it,
but it's, it's smart, like it'ssmart, it's the right thing to
do, especially when you'regetting super technical with
bells I don't care Bells,barbell, whatever it may be.
Yeah, like throw, I mean,because group classes are very

(52:38):
hard to instruct in.
And I think, like group class,like people that teach group
classes, like we all teach groupclasses, like that's a skill
set where you got to be able tomanage the space, manage the
time, but also give the feedbackthat people need.
And you're going to have totoggle between this one person
with this and this one personwith that, but saying, hey, like

(52:58):
we really want you to likesucceed in the classes.
You need to take thesefoundational classes, but I'm an
athlete Like great, you'restill taking them.
Yeah, you know that taking them.

Speaker 2 (53:16):
Yeah, you know, that's important.
I can't tell you how many timesI've come across people who are
like you know they'll sign upfor a class and I'll reach out
to them and I'll be like, hey,you know, just so you know I'm
not going to say you can't cometo this class, but we strongly
suggest that you do these twointro classes.
First, how familiar are you withthe swing and the get up, yeah,
and a lot of people are like,oh, no, I'm good, I got it Right
.
And then they get into classand they're like, oh, this is
maybe I don't got it, you know,uh, and and not to anybody's

(53:39):
fault, but like you just don'tknow what you don't know, like
you probably haven't know,obviously, the way they teach,
and so, yeah, it's eye-openingfor a lot of people.

Speaker 1 (54:02):
And that's the next thing I want to get into is do
you feel, whether it's inChicago land area or just in
general, like this uptick ofpeople who are preferring bells
and coming to you specificallybecause, like you, have a
kettlebell gym?

Speaker 2 (54:13):
yes, uh, I would say people specifically, especially
over the last year, since, uh,you know, year and a half, since
we've been at the space onlincoln, people will search
kettlebell gym and that's howthey find us.
I always try and ask people you, you know, what were you
looking for?
Were you looking for any placewhere you're looking for?

(54:34):
And all the people we getkettlebells specifically.
So now I would like to figureout, like, if I'm going to work

(54:56):
with them on my own, like I wantto be safe when I do them.
So a lot of people I feel rightnow that are drawn to the gym
are drawn to the kettlebellportion of it.
But and I don't know this forsure, but I do feel like the
bigger box gyms, like theyappeal more towards people with
kettlebell, like I feel likekettlebells are trying to be
integrated more in those spaces.

Speaker 1 (55:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (55:17):
I mean.

Speaker 1 (55:18):
I don't know.
The last time I was at one.
Yeah, I think I think you'reright.
I think because when you seethe movements done right,
they're flashy, they look great,just like a barbell lift, just
like anything else.

Speaker 2 (55:29):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:30):
But you mentioned earlier like we're both strong
first instructors and there's astandard there you have to
actually go in for yourcertification and perform the
movements properly to show I cando this and I can teach it.
Yep, you know, you gotta talkthe talk, walk the walk, yeah,
everything yeah.
And like it just so happenslike, if you look at all, like a
majority of the coaches thathave been on this podcast are

(55:51):
like all strong first, because Ifeel and not to say they all
have been, but like a majority,because I feel it's like a gold
standard, like these are very,very tight standards that we
want you to hit and we want tomake sure that you can do the
movements and not only that youhave to recertify.
So if you're going to continueto hold this certification like
you got to continue to do it.

Speaker 2 (56:12):
And also, too, there's an element my experience
with people that are in thatcommunity.
There's, because you investmore time into the learning and
more time into the actuallyhaving to perform what you've
learned and tested like a veryhigh level.
Because you spend more timewith it, you find people who are

(56:33):
like very like-minded to you.
But also there's like a passionand an empathy, because a lot
of the people that want to learnthose things feel so strongly
about it they want to otherpeople.

Speaker 1 (56:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (56:47):
And so there's this like also natural, um, uh, pull
towards, uh, I guess empathy forothers would be a good, but
then, within the community, likeyou feel, coaches wanting to
network with each other, and notin a, not even in a business
sense, just like let's gettogether and share this

(57:09):
kettlebell swing thing we knowhow to do, you know and like
we've done it a number of times,just like work out together,
work out with a group of peoplewho are certified in that way,
and there's no end goal otherthan to just like be together
and swing bells and connect, andwhatever you happen to connect
on, it ends up being great.

Speaker 1 (57:29):
And that's the thing.
I just feel like there's enoughbusiness for everybody.
There's enough business foreverybody like yes, but the
connections that I feel like ifwe look at all of like the
kettlebell instructors like andthat strong first map, if you go
onto the thing like, half ofthem are like affiliated with
shift or we know them personallyon the map and I think that I

(57:52):
think we're becoming like ahotbed for kettlebells, which is
, you know, kudos to you,because you know you're pushing
that you want your people to bestrong for certified and again,
strong first.
I would always say like it'salways a gold standard.
Rkc is great too.
They go hand in hand.
It's just like the divide ofthe two but, um, but I think
that it's something that we allfeel like.

(58:13):
We can all go to each other'sworkshops.
We can all like get togetherand like there's no ego, no,
like we can all like I'll coachone with like a group, and then
somebody will pick something up,yeah, and then somebody else
will coach one day and I'll belike, oh my God, I like how you
did that, yes, and there's justlike it's not like my way is
right, you know.

Speaker 2 (58:31):
Totally.
I like how you say there'senough for everybody, because I
feel like that's true and like Ithink for me personally it's
this like psychological, like bein your body, you know, feel
like warm and fuzzy kind ofthing that I try to integrate

(58:52):
into it.
But for somebody else it couldbe like I want to work with
athletes and make them moreexplosive and they have their
way of making the exact samemovements, but the way they
coach it like special to thatand so like it's almost like it
allows for each person'spersonality to like flourish

(59:15):
with the coaching.
And I think that like differentpeople, so like I might I even
see this at the gym there arecertain people who I feel like
will always gravitate towards myclasses because they like the
way that I coach.
You will get the same thing fromyou coaching a class and you

(59:36):
will have people who prefer togo to your classes because they
feel more connected to you and Idon't care where they're
getting or who they're gettingtheir service from.
I just want them to have theknowledge to like be movers for
life and to be like confidentmovers and know what they're
feeling in their body.
So like doesn't matter if it'sme or you or you know, whoever

(01:00:00):
down the street like, yeah,we're, the end game is the same
yeah better, safer movers thatare healthier and happier, you
know building strong, resilientpeople yes, yes, that's
healthier and happier, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:00:11):
Building strong, resilient people yes, yes,
that's awesome.
And another thing that I wantto talk about, because you
mentioned, like the programmingpiece of I want them to know
what a heavy bell is.
I want them to know a lightbell and I've seen the
programming, like I've coachedthe programming, I've seen it
like the grand schemes and Ithink the beauty and lies in
kettlebells, because the jumpsof bell sizes are are, you know,

(01:00:36):
you got like a four kilo jumpor even some of them are an
eight kilo jump.
Yeah, just big, yeah.
But can you kind of talk aboutlike mastery before of like like
intensity stuff?

Speaker 2 (01:00:48):
yeah, absolutely, well, one to that point I can
have a um.
So the bells at the gym rangefrom eight kilograms up to 56
kilograms 56 kilos so that's awide range, very wide range, and

(01:01:08):
in at the lower weights in twokilogram increments, building up
, and at the middle weights four, and at the bigger ones eight,
right, so I can have a, withswings and get-ups are so
universal, because a kettlebellswing is full of power, right,
and you've got the aerobicconditioning that comes with it,

(01:01:29):
versus a get up is a little bitmore endurance, mobility.
You have to be able to get intothese different positions with
your sweeps and your stands andwhatnot, so I can have my.
I believe my oldest client atthe gym right now is 77, 76, 77.

(01:01:50):
I can have her work out in thesame class as a 23 year old and
the reason I can do that isbecause she has gone through the
fundamental elements oflearning how to do the swing and
the get up safely with weightthat is appropriate to her right

(01:02:13):
, and so has he.
And he might be, you know,exercising with uh whatever k
over here and she might beexercising with a whatever k
over here, like your, your age,like you can.
You can encompass so many peoplebecause it's so variable on the

(01:02:38):
weight, right.
So light to a 77 year old mightbe different than light to a 23
year old, and and heavy mightbe different to, you know, one
person versus the other, but ifthey both come in and have the
foundation of where you'resupposed to feel the movement,

(01:02:58):
what you're supposed to feel inthe movement, good, solid
coaching.
Then they can start to discern,okay, what is my light, what is
my moderate, what is my heavy,what is my very heavy.
And then you can run a classwhere you're saying, okay, we're
going to be doing you knowlight, get up, followed by 10
swings, and then they both canbenefit.

(01:03:19):
So, uh, yeah, I mean a hundredpercent, that's, yeah, it's
super cool.

Speaker 1 (01:03:26):
I, I've.
I've gone to CrossFit.
I've been a member of certainCrossFit's.
I'm not throwing CrossFit underthe bus by any means.
Crossfit's cool if you want todo a lot of different things and
get good at things and have acommunity again.
I don't feel I need to bepanting on the floor.
It's pretty funny.

(01:03:46):
I've gone to some CrossFit'sand everybody's on the floor at
the end of the workout and I'mstill up and I'm like good job,
good job, good job, because I Isaw the prescribed, like I saw
what that was.
I mean, I'm all for doing hardshit yeah, I'm all for it, but
not every day.
Yeah, not every day.

Speaker 2 (01:04:04):
And um, that's a person who works with middle
school kids on the regular.

Speaker 1 (01:04:07):
That's saying that oh , yeah, um, and I I would love
when they would be like reallyfocusing on lifts, and then they
would just put on the chain,those little change plates or
the micro plates on.
Yeah, and it's like all right,we're going for a pr from last
week by like a half pound andI'm like what, why?

(01:04:30):
Like why?
What's the purpose?
What's what's the?
purpose intention yes, and I'mlike are you really getting
better?
Like if you keep doing that andI and I preach this a lot and
this will be like a reoccurringtheme in all, like podcasts that
I do but this linearprogression of keep going up and
up and up is just like yourbody's gonna break down, like
your, your ligaments can't likeif you keep just going up
there's and up is just like yourbody's going to break down,

(01:04:51):
like your, your ligaments can'tlike if you keep just going up,
there's going to be a wall youhit that you can't push through.
You have to like master thelift and get good at the skill
before you go up.
And the kettlebells, because ofthe jumps it's like built in.
Like if I want to do a 32k, getup, yeah, I gotta do the 28 and

(01:05:11):
I have to do it well and I haveto master it before I go up and
that in itself is its ownprogression.
Yeah, and I love that because Ican.
Maybe I can work for, like youknow, five reps, you know
singles left and right with that28 and get really good and then
I might be able to PR with my32 one time Totally, but then I

(01:05:33):
still I don't.
32 is not my new bell, that'snot my working bell, correct,
and I think that I love that andI love that in the programming
that you guys have, that it's,it's built in.
There's a purpose.
You have dated like differentdays are for different things.
Yeah, things and an overarchinggoal.

Speaker 2 (01:05:51):
So this year we also have a in the program that you
see on each day we have, because, let's be real, like life does
not look like this, like youhave these right.
So let's say I got a really badnight's sleep, um, not really

(01:06:12):
feeling myself, maybe reallystressed, and I go to the gym in
the morning and I see this likebehemoth of a workout that I
have to do, even withkettlebells, like even from a
kettlebell standpoint, likesometimes the workouts are like
you know, like, oh, okay, allright, uh, that's a heavy day.
Um, we've now integrated a cardon our slides.

(01:06:33):
That's uh, if you need morerecovery time today, so one,
it's getting people to check inwith, like, where are you at
today?
How did you sleep, how doesyour body feel?
Because if you go into aworkout, your body's not feeling
great and then you're trying todo that extra two and a half
pounds on each side or whatever.

(01:06:54):
I mean that's not going to,that's not going to end, what,
what, like that's not going toserve you, you know.
And if the point is to get agood workout, and then you could
even go into like, what is agood workout for me?

Speaker 1 (01:07:06):
It's a great point.

Speaker 2 (01:07:07):
The definition of a good workout is not increasing
my weight every time, it'sincreasing my body awareness.
And you know, it could change.
Like Monday, it could be likeyeah, I want to get my heart
rate up, I want to sweat, youknow and you know.
And then a couple weeks laterit could be like no, I really

(01:07:30):
want to start like getting maybelike a heavier getup or
something like that.
I don't, I don't know, it canbe fluid, right, and so on this
recovery card, if you walk inand you're like man, I'm not
feeling it today, it's an optionwhere it induces more space for
you to recover between yoursets or for you to grab lighter

(01:07:50):
bells.
And I feel like a lot of peoplewhen they walk into a gym, they
don't think about what does mybody need right now?
What is it saying to me?
They think about like, get itdone, and so, yeah, one of the
things we're integrating thisyear is like hey, need more
recovery time, follow done.
And so, yeah, one of the thingswe're integrating this year is
like hey, need more recoverytime, follow this card.
Um, because different.
And again, it's like one of themost challenging parts of like

(01:08:12):
group training yeah, noteverybody's going to be in crush
it mode.
You know, maybe 80% are right,um, but that doesn't have to be
your journey if you've, you know, had X, y and Z happen.
So yeah, trying to integratethings like that now too.

Speaker 1 (01:08:30):
Yeah, it gives it, gives them the autonomy, right.
If I'm feeling good, if I'm ata hundred percent today, I'm
going to give you that.
But if I'm feeling like 65, I'm, and it's the culture in your
gym that it's.
It's okay.
It's not like you're slack,like nobody looks at a person,
like, oh man, you must've, likeyou had be stressed out.

(01:08:55):
You must've, like you know,went really hard yesterday.
Or like you got a new baby andyou haven't slept in four days.
Right, so that culture is so.
It's so important.
Um, you know, versus, I'm goingto kick the music up as high as
it goes and we are going to belike redlining and just getting
after it yeah, yeah.
And if everybody's doing that.
Have your energy drink next toyou, also your Celsius.

(01:09:15):
If everybody's doing that, Imean I don't care anymore, I
don't give a shit.
I'll be the first one in likeworkouts, like I've gone to gyms
where it's like, all right,we're doing a hundred burpees
over bar or something, and Iwould walk straight up to the
person and in my younger daysI'd be like, yeah, I'm doing
that, I'm going to crush it, I'mgoing to finish first.
Yeah, now I'm like, hey, coach,I'm not doing that, like I am

(01:09:42):
not doing that.
And then most of the coachesare like, all right, cool, like
they know.
In their head they're like,yeah, that's a lot of work.
I'm like, I'm not doing that.
And it takes.
And it takes a lot from theculture, it takes a lot from the
person, of being educated, likeeducating the clients, like to
identify, like when it's OK topush, when it's OK to bring it

(01:10:03):
back.
But that's the one thing I loveabout and I'm trying not to be
biased because I coach there.

Speaker 2 (01:10:09):
Sure, yeah, keep going, tony, yeah, yeah yeah,
keep selling it, shift over onthe corner.

Speaker 1 (01:10:14):
No, but I think it's important to like highlight.
I mean I think there's a lot ofgyms that do things very, very
well.

Speaker 2 (01:10:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:10:22):
I've seen it done well.
I've seen it done really bad.
You know, we're just again thatwhole of like coaches are, you
know, giving them the hip hop,hip hop, whatever speech?
Like getting everybody jackedup and then like being like,
come on, you got it, you got it.
And just screaming across theroom yeah, that doesn't.
I don't think that translatesinto those long-term goals of

(01:10:42):
like I want to be physically fitfor a lifespan and I want to be
able to accomplish the thingsin life and the tasks in life,
and that's what I feel like alot of good coaches purpose are.
Is like can you do the thingsthat life demands of you and are
you resilient, are you strong?
Are you metabolically healthy?
Like that that I have.

(01:11:03):
No, we haven't even talkedabout aesthetics Like that's the
back burner, that's just abyproduct of doing those things.

Speaker 2 (01:11:10):
Yeah, yeah, I've heard kettlebell training Also.
I really love this comparisoncompared to martial arts, where
it's like you don't do themartial art for like anything
other than the technique, likeit is the art of learning the

(01:11:31):
movement.
That is what makes it up Right.
And I feel the same way aboutkettlebells it's like it's the
art of learning the movement.
And then the exercise part, thecalorie burn, the aerobic
conditioning, that just comes.
Yeah, you know, exercise part,the calorie burn, the aerobic
conditioning that just comes,you know.
So it it really reframes themindset of um exercise to

(01:11:55):
developing a skill.
And because I fully want, Iwant people to like if you leave
my gym and you move, or ifyou're just there for a short
period of time, take the skillwith you wherever you go, you
move, or if you're just therefor a short period of time, take
the skill with you wherever yougo.
You know, like, take the skillof knowing your body, take the

(01:12:18):
skill of knowing the bell um andand bring that with you.
That's like, ultimately, whatwe're trying to do.
So, yeah, it just when youreframe it to learning and
developing a skill and then theexercise is just like a
byproduct of yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:12:29):
I love the martial arts piece because, like, if the
, if you meet like really highlevel martial artists or MMA or
whatever, like maybe not like aConor McGregor, like that's a
personality or whatever, but inthe majority of people that are
like, that's why I love likecombat of sports, like wrestling
, jujitsu.
If, when people meet like thehigh level people there, they

(01:12:51):
always say how wow, they're sonice, they're some of the most
dangerous people on the planetearth, they're so nice.
Yeah, well, because they, theydidn't do the.
The sport to beat people uplike that's not the goal, it's
the, it's the pursuit ofathletic excellence, it's the
pursuit of getting better inskill.

(01:13:12):
Yeah, and you like, you don'thave to demonstrate, like you
can beat people up like you knowwhat I mean.
Like they're just the nicestpeople in the world.
They could kick your ass right,it's so sweet.
What's the yeah, what's the uh,the strong first thing.
I've heard it a bunch of timeslike be is like, be as strong as
you look.
Right, we want you to be asstrong as you look like I heard
that, but that's cool.
Yeah, like you know we want tobe, you want to be able to walk

(01:13:36):
in confidently and do the thingslike and move well and and be
resilient.
But the thing is like if you,like, are care about aesthetics,
you can be like two percentbody fat be shredded, but like
yeah, your muscles might bepopping up, but like can you do
the things you can't do thethings you know.

(01:13:56):
Yeah, yeah, yeah uh, one of thelast things I want to get into
is like the difference of likecoaching, especially like as a
female coach.
Um, you know your relationshipsand with that like psychology
background of like coaching,especially like as a female
coach.
You know your relationships andwith that like psychology
background of like relationshipsand or the the style of
coaching like male and femaleclients.

Speaker 2 (01:14:16):
Oh, God Oof, I, I feel that I am one person with
one lived experience that, andso when I, when I speak about
this, I might have experiencesthat fall in stereotypical, you

(01:14:37):
know, fashion, like with what westereotype as being female and
what we stereotype as being male.
So I've, I've coached both, likeon a uh, in a gym setting and
in a soccer setting, both malesand females.
Um, I, I try and maintain likewho I am and my authentic

(01:15:00):
authenticity and just like myvalues, no matter where I'm at,
no matter who it is.
You know, um, there are innatedifferences.
I feel like that happen and I,I, man, narrowing it down to
like, let's say, a capacity of agym, I find that, um, gym, I

(01:15:26):
find that sometimes, I, god, Ieven hate saying it because I
don't want, I don't want tooffend anybody and I know that,
like, talking about genderedthings is very like we like to
put things in boxes and we liketo label things as being male
and female and whatever.
And, um, you know, I, my maleclients, let me put it that way

(01:15:50):
tend to be the ones that I feellike it's harder to detach the
ego from the lift.
And that is just my personalexperience.
I'm not saying that'severybody's experience.

Speaker 1 (01:16:02):
I have that too.
I see that too.

Speaker 2 (01:16:05):
And and um, it happens in soccer as well, Like
when I, when I coach boys, egowill sometimes get in the way.
Okay, so in a soccer setting,uh, ego will sometimes get in
the way of letting feedback bereceived, because now I know
this and I don't, I don't needhelp you know, do you feel

(01:16:27):
that's because, like, if there'sthat toggle between, like if
they're getting feedback from amale coach or a female coach?
I think I'm still too young inmy career to know, especially
with coaching boys in soccer.
So I felt that from some of myplayers uh, recently, not all

(01:16:48):
and but also like when Iexperienced something like that.
Or I feel that I'm wondering ifI'm projecting my insecurities
of being inferior because I'mfemale on to that situation.
So it could, it could very wellbe like a male female thing, or
it could be me seeing thesituation as that and like I

(01:17:11):
have an insecurity, a personalinsecurity of like how is this
person receiving me Becausethey're a man and I'm a woman?
Right, that's a.
That's a real thing that existsfor me.
You know, when I, when I coach,it more so happens in the
soccer world than in thetraining world, and I don't know
if it's because I've been umtraining longer than I've been

(01:17:34):
coaching, like specific highlevel teams in soccer, but, um,
when I'm in the weight room room, I find that my feedback is

(01:17:56):
accepted.
I feel that my feedback isaccepted, but it's like the push
to show strength.
It's not about what I'm sayingto them, but the ability to like
turn that part down, to dosomething that serves your body
better is more trying, I think,with with men that in my
experience, um with women, um,there's uh, a real like

(01:18:18):
emotional and empathic dynamic.
For me that is different.
Emotional and empathic dynamicfor me that is different.
So in a soccer sense, sometimesit's very hard because there's,
in a high school level, a realfear, high school soccer I'm
talking about.
There's a real fear of notbeing liked by your teammates or

(01:18:49):
maybe being too good at a sportfor standing up for what the
group doesn't believe.
Like if the group thinks I'msimplifying this to a huge
degree but if the group thinksthis color is red but I see it
as blue and I'm gonna speak outand say that like I'm, I'm not
gonna speak out and say thatit's blue, I'm just gonna say
that it's red, even thoughthat's not how I see it.

Speaker 1 (01:19:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:19:05):
So I see with the girls a lot of times them sort
of like letting the socialdynamics control how great
they're willing to be, becausethey want to be liked rather
than to the performance, yeah,the performance versus something

(01:19:26):
, confidently, oh yeah.
Um, in the gym setting um, man,uh, I, I would say generally
with women they don't, and it'sa confidence thing as well.
They don't know how, how strongthey are, they don't.

(01:19:46):
It's the confidence to be ableto lift heavier.
And they're like, oh, I'venever, I've never touched that
bell, I'm not gonna, I'm not, II don't think I'm strong enough
to swing that and I'm like, ohyeah, you are, for sure you are,
and I wouldn't tell you likeyou were ready for it, you know,
if you weren't ready.
So I would say, if I had togroup together and categorize

(01:20:09):
male ego, female confidence, andso that's a dynamic that I see.
Again, I don't want to shedthat, that is a blanket
experience.
I understand that.
I also want to recognize thatnot everybody identifies as male
or female, so there might belike a trans group that feels
left out of that.
Understand that.

Speaker 1 (01:20:25):
I also want to recognize that not everybody
identifies as male or female, sothere might be like a you know
trans group that feels left outof that.

Speaker 2 (01:20:30):
I and I actually have not, uh, had, uh, you know um,
an experience in working withsomebody who maybe doesn't
identify with a you know theythem.
So it would be hard to say forthat, and I don't want people to
feel left out.
So yeah, it's just a stickytime.

Speaker 1 (01:20:47):
No, it is, and I but I think it's important to kind
of talk about, to like identifythose things, because I mean,
these are lived experiences,like when you said the thing
about the males.
My lived experience is somewhatsimilar but just some different
like variations of that.
You know.
The female one would be like Iwould come over and be like I'm

(01:21:07):
swapping your belts for you orI'm swapping the weights for
what, and I'm like you are abadass mofo, like you need to be
doing this yeah, yeah get theheavier stuff.
yeah, um, my.
I feel that I, especially if Ihave a client or inside of group
classes that is a formerathlete who's like in shape,

(01:21:28):
whatever it's like, I wouldsuggest things, my feedback is
only taken seriously if theyknow that I can do the thing or
more.
That's my opinion and this isagain, this is my living
experience because you'll getlike oh, so like, what's your,
what's your, what's your?
Again, this is, guys, I'm justsaying like in general, like in

(01:21:50):
the space of like ego.
Oh yeah, I I mean, I was theretoo, I had ego too like, oh,
what's your, uh, what's your?
Get up, yeah, can you do the 56?
Yes, I'm like I've never triedthe 56.
Do you think you could do it?
I'm like maybe.
Yeah, I don't, I'm not, I don'tthink I'm gonna try, though.
Yeah, I'm like maybe.

Speaker 2 (01:22:04):
Yeah, I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:22:04):
I don't think I'm going to try, though.
I'm like, and they're like, oh,blah, blah, this and that.
I'm like they're like, well,what's your, can you do the 48?
I'm like I've done the 48.
They're like, oh, you could dothe 48.
And I was just like then theylike respect me more because
they know I can do the thing,and it's just like how did we
get here.
Right and I'm like, and first ofall, like you're six foot, I'm

(01:22:26):
five, nothing but, um, you know,and that's where I get a lot of
the well, could you do this way?
And then that, and if only, ifI can do it and I can
demonstrate, I feel like I getmore of that, um, that, that
feedback, that is more respect,receptive to those clients.
But again, it is a thing whereI think, females that I've been

(01:22:47):
interacting with, I'm alwayslike you can do better, like you
can go heavier, like you gotthis, and that's the piece that
that you have to navigate andit's hard as a coach.

Speaker 2 (01:22:58):
Also thanks for sharing that, because I don't
think I've ever really askedthat to anybody before.
So to like hear that on theother side is uh, it's just
interesting and uh, because youcan feel really I, I can feel
very isolated in my experience,you know, to like I don't know.

(01:23:23):
Is it me, you know?
Is it me, I don't know?
Is it me, you know?
Is it me that they don't trust?
So to hear that from anothercoach's perspective is actually
pretty profound.
The part that you said about thewhat was it?
The?
Can you lift the whatever?

(01:23:44):
And then, if you can, then I'llgive you my respect.
Yeah, that part to me when Istarted coaching was always a
piece I had in the back of mymind like they're looking for
that.
I think that's faded over timeis my values have integrated

(01:24:09):
differently into training and Iused to be very worried about
that.
But now I'm like the productthat I'm delivering is not
guaranteeing you a heavier PR.
The product I'm delivering isyou getting to know your body
better, and so that's oneinteresting element.
The other have you heard thehot take that every PR is an ego

(01:24:32):
lift?

Speaker 1 (01:24:32):
We're doing a hot take hot takes.

Speaker 2 (01:24:34):
Have you heard that every PR is an ego lift?
It could be, I guess, maybeIsn't that interesting Like, if
you think about it, I, I knowthat that's a, it's like a, but
if you think about it, I, I knowthat that's a, it's like a, but
if you think about it, reallylike, all you're doing is
proving to yourself that you cando something, yeah, do
something heavier than you didbefore yeah maybe there's a

(01:24:55):
purpose for it.
Like maybe you're training forsomething right.

Speaker 1 (01:24:59):
Like maybe you're training for like the iron
maiden or the you know whateverlike beast tamer yeah, but I
just thought it was interestingsomething to chew on no, no,
yeah, I think like, and prs alsodon't have to look like prs of
weight, it can be prs of skill,right like I love that right

(01:25:23):
like I can do I?
I find myself when I really like, if I'm like regressing a
little bit, like how slow, likeright now I like I'm doing a lot
of barbell stuff, yeah, andit's like how slow and technical
can my back squat be for fiveat like a moderate weight?
Awesome, yeah, that's mywhatever.

(01:25:45):
And I'm like I really don'tfeel like I want to build right
now.
I just want to get better atthe lift and just like take my
time with it.
Uh, that's my PR sometimes.

Speaker 2 (01:25:54):
We need to like.

Speaker 1 (01:25:56):
people need to have access to more information, like
that Well, if they go to thePrimal Foundations podcast, they
have access to all thisinformation and a wonderful
guest, no, but this is important.
I think these are the thingsthat.
And then you asked me what isyour end goal?
As we're walking in here,what's your end goal of this
podcast?
I'm like I don't really have anend goal.
It's like I'm going to talk topeople and talk to doctors,

(01:26:20):
trainers, nutritionists,whatever of of things that I
think are important, that havehelped me, like, find my path in
life, of like being moreconfident, right, um,
understanding my relationshipwith food, understanding like
what it is to be strong, what?
What is the purpose of that?
Why do I want to do that inlife?
And that is like the goal ofthis.

(01:26:40):
So, like everything you'respeaking, right, this is like
you might get like four peopleor a thousand people, but like
if you could just get one ofthem to be like you know what,
that makes sense to me, that's awin game changer.

Speaker 2 (01:26:52):
It is a game changer.

Speaker 1 (01:26:53):
Uh, in our last minutes here, what is what's the
future?
I know you just said, you knowyou dropped a little bit of a
nugget, like we're opening upanother location, uh, but what
is like?
Where do you want the shift togo?

Speaker 2 (01:27:07):
uh, and like future aspirations okay, I struggle
with this question a lot.
Um, I I know that thiscommunity is something very
special.
Um, I would love to expand sothat more people can feel a part

(01:27:31):
of a community like that.
So I have thoughts like that.
I still have a deep love forcoaching soccer.
So if you're to ask me rightnow and this could change by
tomorrow but if you're to ask meright now to have a space that
had a field but also, I think,like a training area

(01:27:54):
specifically for you know,kettlebell based stuff, like
kind of what shift does rightnow and then recovery, like that
would be a trifecta for me tojust like have all of all of
that in one area the intentionof like bringing like better

(01:28:14):
training to people.
I feel like my, my communitythat exists is the.
The primary demographic is like30 to 50 year old.
Primary demographic is like 30to 50 year old, um, and I think
it's like 65 female, 35 male, um, but I don't have a lot of
athletes that I work with unlessI'm coaching soccer.

(01:28:36):
So it'd be cool to have a spacewhere you could have like the
vibe of community but also likethere could be attention to
athletes in a different settingthere where they're learning
about their body at a youngerage.
Like that would be really coolfor me.
And then, obviously, just like,if there was ever an

(01:28:57):
opportunity to work with teams,that would be cool.
And yeah, then like and when Isay recovery, I mean like a
coffee bar would be nice there,but also like, uh, I think
infrared saunas are really coolareas that, like you know, cold
plunges, you name it like.
There's so many fun andinteresting components of

(01:29:18):
recovery.
But, just like I'm, I envisionthis like space, like a bigger
space than what exists right now.
So, uh, that's like a yeah,kind of like a next step.
But, uh, I don't want to movefar away from soccer, I want to
stay coaching.
That too, and if sportspsychology knocks on my door,
I'm ready for it.
So, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:29:37):
That's all.
I mean, that's all good stuff.
I'm I'm looking forward howshift shifts into like, and it
shifts and evolves into somedifferent things and you know
I'm rooting for you every stepof the way and, yeah, I
appreciate you, you know, comingon the podcast and you're
you're a great coach, greatperson, a great friend oh so

(01:29:58):
thanks, so, but, um, yeah, letthe people know how do they get
ahold of you, uh, whether thatmay be Instagram website.

Speaker 2 (01:30:07):
Yeah, so uh, my Instagram handle is shift by
bells, b, e, l, L, z, so myinitials are LZ.
Well, change to LW after I gotmarried, but people used to call
me, yeah, yeah, um love you,gabby.
Yeah, wifey, um, love you Uh.
So, uh, shift by bells onInstagram, uh, or you know um,

(01:30:31):
you can always just stop by thegym.
We're at 3851 North Lincoln inChicago, so if you're local, um,
we have a website.
You can access us.
Uh, at set higher intentionscom.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:30:44):
Awesome.
So, yeah, well, thanks forcoming in and thanks for
everybody listening to anotherepisode of the Primal
Foundations podcast.

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