June 1, 2025 • 58 mins
Dr. Ankur Verma, an emergency medicine specialist from New Delhi and host of The DESI EM Project podcast, shares his compelling journey from a carb-heavy Indian diet to embracing a carnivore lifestyle after facing severe metabolic health issues. By adopting a meat-based diet, he reversed his own metabolic syndrome and witnessed remarkable health improvements in others, including his uncle's reversal of 25 years of diabetes. Dr. Verma challenges conventional nutritional wisdom by emphasizing the importance of biomarkers like triglyceride-to-HDL ratio and homocysteine levels over traditional cholesterol metrics. Through his podcast, he delves into topics such as emergency medicine, nutrition, and the influence of pharmaceutical interests on medical education, advocating for a root-cause approach to health. Follow his insights on Instagram @thecarnivore.ep
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Today's guest is Dr Ankar Verma.
He's an emergency medicalspecialist based in New Delhi,
india, known for his advocacy ofthe carnivore diet and his
focus on metabolic health.
He's the creator and host ofthe very successful podcast Desi
EM Project Ankar.
Welcome to the PramoFoundation's podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Thank you so much, Tony.
Man, I'm so happy that wefinally got to talk together
after months of, you know, goingback and forth with the timings
.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Yes, yes, we've been going back and forth a little
bit.
You know we scheduled one dayand I messed up the timings and
I was like he's like, yeah,we're on, I'm like we're on
right now, back and forth.
But I appreciate yourflexibility and finally making
this happen and talk to offcamera about all of your stuff.
(00:49):
You've been doing your podcastand promoting the carnivore diet
and I love talking aboutpeople's stories and all the
messaging that you're puttingout there.
But for our listeners I kind ofwant to talk about your
upbringing, because it's kind ofa piece of it is your journey
of the cultural background ofNew Delhi and like nutritional
choices that are kind ofassociated with that culture and
(01:11):
growing up in New Delhi.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Yeah, I mean, I was.
I was always a meat eater.
I always enjoyed, you know,chicken, mutton and fish and all
that.
That's what my family alsotells me.
You know, when I was growing upgrowing up, you know, even at
like two years or something whenI would walk around I would
start salivating.
When there would be chicken ormutton or something made at home
, I would go into the kitchenand you know I'll cluck like a
(01:34):
chicken that I wanted to havesome chicken.
You know.
Just make some hand movements,I want some fish.
That's what I've heard.
And uh, whenever we used to gofor parties at families,
especially my grandparents'place, you know they would have
like a wonderful meat dish madespecially just for me and there
would be another dish made forthe rest of the family.
So that's how much I alwaysloved meat.
But you know, growing up notjust in New Delhi or North India
(01:57):
, you know, anywhere in India welove our carbohydrates and that
was always there, you know.
I mean, if you look at thebreakfast choices all all across
india, so in north india it'susually once it got westernized
obviously there were cereals andsandwiches and stuff.
But if you go more indian,there's like aloo parathas,
which is like, well, you knowthese, uh, what should I say?
(02:21):
Uh, potatoes stuffed in thesesort of rotis, right?
And then they cook that on panswith oils and ghee and stuff,
and then there'll be somethinglike chole patore and pav bhaji,
which is all carbohydrates,like breads and a lot of
(02:41):
chickpeas and potatoes.
You go south, you have, youknow, idlis and dosas and sambar
vadas, all of that.
It's all made of rice and othercarbohydrates.
You go to the west, you havesomething called poha and
theplas and stuff, which isagain all carbohydrate.
And you go to the east, theyhave, you know, a few other
dishes.
So that's how the Indianbreakfast starts off, right.
(03:02):
And once people thought, sothat's how the Indian breakfast
starts off, right.
And once people thought let'shave something healthy, they'd
get onto fruits, you know, forbreakfast and think that that's
a nice light dish to have earlyin the morning, not realizing
that in like two or three hoursthey'll start eating more and,
you know, want to have some moremeals.
So you know, through my years,obviously I was having all my
meat and my eggs and everything,but obviously carbohydrate did
(03:26):
happen.
But I would have, I would havemy big share of mutton or
chicken, for sure, but then thatwould be accompanied with, you
know, rice or rotis or naans.
And you know, most of the time,most of the weeks, I would
definitely have meat, like maybefive or six times a week.
But then, if I have 21 meals ina week, five or six times a week
, but then if I have 21 meals ina week, five or six times is
not enough, especially when it'saccompanied with all of these
(03:48):
carbohydrates, right?
So, uh, and then, obviously,junk food did happen, like you
know, all the pizzas and theburgers and, uh, the chips and
the nachos and soft drinks,everything through college, even
through school, you know icecreams and everything.
All of that, obviously, I meanI traveled around the world, I
(04:12):
used to love the AmericanCoca-Cola and the Frosties and
all of that.
So you know, I mean, when Iused to go there, I would have
tons of that.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
So you know, all of that happened through the years
till one fine day I woke uphappened through the years, uh,
uh, till one fine day I woke upnow growing up, like in america,
we had the food pyramid.
That was when I was growing up.
That was a big thing.
You know your breads, your rice, your carbohydrates for like
that big chunk of that pyramid.
And then we transitioned inamerica to the my plate, which
(04:40):
is like basically half of it isgoing to be vegetables and the
another quarter of it's going tobe carbohydrates, other other
complex carbohydrates or simplecarbs, and then you're going to
have, like this, one littlesliver of any type of red meat
or protein or whatever it may be.
Growing up, was that somethingthat was like in school.
Was that kind of preached likethis is how you eat, or you guys
(05:02):
have something different?
Speaker 2 (05:04):
no, no, I don't think it was ever preached in school.
I remember when I went toschool we were allowed to carry
our own meat.
You know we had options forhome lunch and school lunch.
School lunch would always bevegetarian, but if you're
getting home lunch, you couldget whatever you want.
That was back then.
You know, more than 30 yearsback.
Now, most of the schools allowonly school lunches, which are
(05:27):
all vegetarian, because there'sa lot of uh propaganda behind
that.
But uh, yeah, I mean, growing upwe didn't know much about the
pyramids.
Like I said, I I mean I camefrom a family that enjoyed
eating meat.
You know, uh, all it was withcarbohydrates, but we, we never
shunned meat.
We knew that it's important forus and you know it's what gets
(05:49):
us some nutrients, even if wedid not know what nutrients
properly.
But then, growing up, that wasnot an issue.
Only recently, I think, therehas been more talk about the
food plate, which has, you know,been advocated by the Indian
Council of Medical Research,which is the exact same, like
the plate in the UK or the foodpyramid in the US.
(06:09):
It's all taken from there.
It's the same.
I mean the food plate.
You should have your cerealsand grains and legumes and
lentils, fruits, vegetables andif there's any little thing left
, have some eggs or maybe somedairy and maybe a little bit of
lean meat, specifically whitemeat.
So yeah, I mean it's justcopy-paste from other countries,
right?
And what the ICMR doesn'trealize is this is what India
(06:32):
eats.
We've been eating that foryears, the same plate, you know,
and we're still very sick,right?
So I mean they don't, and theyalways blame it only on
westernization and that junkfood came in and all that, but
it's not.
I mean, diabetes in India hasbeen documented for centuries,
(06:54):
right, since 600 BC.
So, and you know, I mean therehave been diseases before, just
that it wasn't getting diagnosed, obviously because medical
science was not that updated andwas not that advanced at that
time.
But yeah, I mean, even if youhave documentation of diabetes
from 600 PC, you've got to thinkabout it, yeah, why that was
(07:16):
happening.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
And you know you're going through school.
You got to make a career choiceand you chose you know medical
field.
What made you get into that?
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Yeah, it's an interesting story.
I mean, only one of my uncleswas a cardiologist from my
family, so that was the onlydoctor we had in the family and
he was practicing in the UK, soobviously I didn't have too much
of an influence from him, but Iknew that he's there.
And I think when I was inschool, in class 9th or 10th, we
were supposed to write anobituary for ourselves, you know
(07:47):
, looking into the future.
That was like a homework orsomething and that's like what,
27, 28 years back or somethinglike that, and I wrote about a
world famous neurosurgeon whodies and you know an Richard
regarding that, and that was in,I think, class 9, and probably
(08:08):
that planted a seed in my brainbecause from class 10 or 11
we're supposed to choose ourstreams and so I chose biology
and medicine after that.
That's what I can think of.
I don't know why just thathomework actually influenced me
in some way to go ahead and tryand become a doctor.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
So yeah, and here I am that's so cool because I'm a
my my main profession is aphysical education teacher in
the states in chicago, and uh,it's cool.
Like you always hear the onething where a kid picks up
something up in a class, in aproject and that just kind of
like piques their interest andthey just run with it and it
(08:50):
just becomes their own.
You know, now you're goingthrough medical school, you're
getting all this training.
You know, where?
Where does this carnivore diethappen?
Where?
What makes you make this shift?
Speaker 2 (09:03):
yeah, this carnivore diet happened 15 years after I
passed out, you know.
So, yeah, I mean, I became adoctor in 2006.
And in 2021, you know, with allthe COVID and all going on I
realized my triglycerides hadhit 600, right, and my
triglyceride to HDL ratio was 16.
(09:24):
That's abysmal.
I knew about metabolic syndrome, but not in the way I know
about it now.
But, yeah, I mean, I knew mytriglycerides were high because
of my carbohydrate intakes,right, and so I started to work
on that.
I immediately shut off all junkfood and processed sugars.
I actually removed a lot ofdals and rotis and all that and
(09:47):
I cut down my rice intake, but Iwas still doing rice.
So, you know, sort of like alow carb, keto kind of a thing,
I increased my meat.
I actually avoided a little bitof red meat in the start, just,
you know, just to see whathappens.
You know, and.
But but then I started doing myresearch into nutrition because
I figured that as a doctor, Ididn't know much about nutrition
, and and, and I knew none of mycolleagues were going to guide
(10:10):
me through nutrition, because nodoctors are trained in
nutrition, right, and obviouslyI was on instagram and and, and
I saw I, I did my keto and andand low carb for about six
months.
I I lost a bunch of weight butI still had inflammation, and
that I can definitely vouch forwhen I look at photographs back.
It took me like about fivemonths to lose like 22 or 23
(10:35):
kilos.
You know, once I went low carband I used to always exercise
right, so it took me just fivemonths or six months to lose 22,
kilos.
But then I started doing my youknow due diligence.
I started researching intonutrition.
I started reading a lot, of lotmore books.
I went back into mybiochemistry and physiology
textbooks from like 25 yearsback and uh, I I came across so
(10:59):
that that was like about a yearand a half or something like
that, till 2023 april, whensomebody sent me paul saladino's
reel when he was still acarnivore, and uh, and then it
made a lot of sense to me, youknow.
And then I started doing moreresearch into it.
I started doing my.
I mean, my podcast was alreadygoing on.
I started getting more guestsonto it.
I read through all the papersthat are there, you know, uh,
(11:22):
thousands of them be it aboutlipids or nutrition or animal
based foods, plant-based and uh,you know bioavailable nutrients
, biodigestible nutrients,whatever there is.
You know everything, thepropaganda and everything,
everything anthropology, uh.
And obviously I was reading mytextbooks again and you know it
just made a lot of sense to meand I was like this is something
(11:45):
that's not been done right byus and to us as doctors also,
because I reversed a lot ofthings.
You know, I reversed mymetabolic syndrome, I reversed
esophagitis, I reversed bladdercontrol, libido, a lot of things
you know and we get to realizethese things once these symptoms
also disappear.
So a lot of things you know andwe get to realize these things
(12:07):
once these symptoms alsodisappear.
You know my heartburn,gastritis, acidity, gerd
symptoms, all of theseabsolutely it had become a norm
for me to pop in an antacidafter dinner every night,
thinking, ok, fine, this is thecourse of life.
You know that was.
I was also put on someantihypertensives and statins in
the first four or five months.
Some antihypertensives andstatins in the first four or
five months once I had diagnosedmyself with metabolic syndrome,
(12:29):
but then I shut them off myselfand my BP is absolutely fine.
I'm okay with my cholesterollevels being high.
You know, my triglycerides arenow 90 and my TG2 ratio is about
0.901, something like that from16.
So so I went into full-blowncarnival.
I saw a lot of difference.
I helped out my family, myuncle, my late uncle actually.
(12:53):
He was a diabetic for 25 yearsand he was asked to go on to
insulin last year January youknow and for dialysis.
He was diagnosed with a renaltumor at that time and that
renal tumor was obviouslybecause he had uncontrolled
diabetes.
And we had a discussion, toldhim okay, fine, give me two
(13:14):
months, don't do insulin anddialysis, let's see.
And he went full on carnivoreand in two months his HBA once
he came down from 7.5 to 4, hissugars were absolutely fine, his
blood pressure was fine.
His doctor actually wrote onhis prescription, recovered from
diabetes and hypertension anddoes not require any more
medications.
I got his doctor to write thatWow, this hadn't happened for 25
(13:36):
years because he was told tokeep an HbA1c of 7, which is a
good control, take hismedications and cover it with
carbohydrates.
Obviously I mean he's no more,unfortunately, but he fought
through it, even on Carnivore.
And he started doing metabolictherapy for his cancer.
The first pet actually showed,or the second pet actually
(13:58):
showed reversal of some of themeds.
And then he went to some otheroncologists also who put him on
some oral medications and allthat.
But yeah, I mean, besides that,a lot of other my of my friends
and family went carnivore.
They've reversed a lot ofsyndromes, you know infertility,
non-alcoholic, fatty liver,pcos, hypertension,
hypothyroidism.
I'm actually reversingosteoporosis and rheumatoid
(14:21):
arthritis in a couple of mypatients.
So yeah, I mean, carnivoresreally help.
It is the way to go.
It's basically what I feel ispeople are sick because of lack
of essential nutrientsbioavailable and biodigestible
essential nutrients andoverabundance of anti-nutrients.
That's what a plant-based dietdoes to you.
That's what the vegetarian diet, the standard Indian vegetarian
(14:43):
diet, actually does to you.
Right, you're having so much ofcarbohydrates and lectins and
phytates and oxalates andphytoestrogens all of these, you
know, and they're causing somuch of harm.
And I actually you know, opine,that exogenous carbohydrates
should be an anti-nutrient, youknow.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
So yeah, and that's what I feel, and I'm seeing that
in my patients every day.
You know, people don't realizelike we're.
We're so prone to jumping ontothe next pill or a shot or what
it, whatever it is, uh, but justlooking down back at what we're
actually putting in our bodiesis huge.
And with that insulin piece,you know, uh, what is it?
(15:40):
One in every four might even behigher.
At this point, I think it mightbe like over half now of people
are being diagnosed with typetwo diabetes, right, and just
masking the problem, just say,hey, here's your pump, here's
your insulin, continue to eathow you want to.
Insulin is expensive.
Everything is like really justpushed up on doctors and again,
(16:02):
like you mentioned, like not alot of doctors are trained in
nutrition and again, doctors aredoing the best that they can.
But just I look back at youknow some doctors that are like,
hey, I'm doing all of this work, I'm prescribing insulin,
statins, whatever, but yet mypatients are still sick.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Yeah, absolutely they are going to be.
Yeah, for sure.
So I spoke to a few people whoworked in the pharma company my
good friend from school, ekta,and Shashi Khan from India and,
I think, selena, if I'm notwrong, and all of them have
worked in pharmas with diabetesand statins and I had one
(16:45):
question for them Did any ofyour board of directors actually
say we need to cure thesediseases, so we stop selling
less medication?
They're like no ways, no ways.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
It's a big machine.
It's a big machine and I thinkdoctors don't realize that.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
See, I mean, it's like you correctly mentioned,
it's not their fault.
But then you know, it's likeyou correctly mentioned, it's
not their fault.
But then you know,disillusionment actually leads
to enlightenment.
A wise man once said right, Iknow I've been disillusioned and
I know that I've seen thematrix.
Why?
Because a lot of my patientsnot all my patients who come in
have complications of metabolicsyndromes or complications of
(17:21):
the medications that they're on.
But somebody has to ask thequestion what are we doing as
doctors, even as me as anemergency physician?
You know I'm going to save alife in that moment of time,
right?
So somebody comes in with aheart attack right, that's a
complication of a metabolicsyndrome.
Right, you've come in with that.
I save you at that time.
Put you on some medications,get a stent, put.
All of that happens Like 90% ofthe times.
(17:42):
You're going to be a purevegetarian who does not eat eggs
or meat or anything, right?
You discharge on medications asper guidelines, fair enough.
But you are also told continuethe food that you're eating.
Well, you were actually eatingthat.
Did a cardiologist speak to you?
Why did you have this?
Why did you have a heart attack?
You're a non-smoker, you don'tdrink and you're a pure
(18:04):
vegetarian.
You were not supposed to have aheart attack.
You're a non-smoker, you don'tdrink and you're a pure
vegetarian.
You were not supposed to have aheart attack.
Your lipid profiles are normal,right, but it still happened,
right.
And nobody looks at thetriglyceride to HG ratios.
So I mean and we've actuallyopened up retrospective data,
we're looking at the prospectivedata from my department, we've
(18:25):
huge 50-bedded emergency.
We get a lot of heart attackpatients, a lot of strokes, a
lot of cancers, diabeticketoacidosis, ketoacidosis not
ketosis, but ketoacidosis theones that people actually fear
and should, uh.
So you know, uh, that's adiabetes complication again.
And we're looking at what theyeat.
You know this is not just afood frequency questionnaire
that we're doing.
This is food preference, allright.
(18:46):
So we're not asking you howmany times a week to eat
broccoli or spinach.
We're asking you are you avegetarian?
Are you a vegan?
Are you an omnivore?
Are you a pescatarian?
Are you an omnivore?
If you're an omnivore orpescatarian, yes, we do some
food frequencies.
Then, in the sense, howfrequently do you eat?
And most of the times we getthe same answer either on
Sundays or on special occasions.
(19:07):
So 65, 70% of the population isvegetarian.
They're not getting essentialnutrients and they're getting
abundance of anti-nutrients.
And I kid you not I don't knowif you saw my latest content or
not I mean, we're doing aprospective study on heart
attack patients that are cominginto my emergency.
Every one of them had a high TGto HDL ratio Every one and
(19:31):
they're micronutrient deficient.
Almost about 75 or 80 percentof them had b12 deficiency and
or barring three or four out ofthese 70 patients that I have
collected till now, all of themhave high homocysteine levels.
It's like a direct uh, you know.
It causes injuries to yourarteries, it destroys your
(19:54):
glycocalyx uh, it leads tocoagulation of the blood, can
cause thromboembolism and isknown to cause cardiovascular
diseases.
Right, but nobody's looking atthat.
Because to reduce yourhomocysteine, you need to bring
up your B12 levels naturally.
You know I've got a fewpatients where they've taken
supplements.
Their B12 levels went into likethousands, but their
(20:14):
homocysteine was still high andyou need b12 to bring it down.
Right, but the but the syntheticbeetles not doing that.
The natural ones are doing that.
When you're eating the rightfoods, your homocysteines are
settling down, but we're notlooking at that.
Why we're still putting you onstatins.
Why?
But your cholesterol level wasfine.
You want to finish off your ldl, or I mean it used to be a
(20:36):
hundred, now they say 70.
One of my cardiologistsactually told me okay, fine, so
you've got a 15% plug, it'snothing, nothing to be worried
about.
But if your LDL is above 70,try and get below 50 by taking
statins.
I'm like, no ways, I'm not.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
You're all fired up.
I love it.
It's like when people seesomebody that's overweight,
they're like there's no way thatthey're nutrient deficient,
there's no but, but they are,but they are and that, and
people don't realize that.
And also, like you said, hey,we save lives right then and
there, in that moment, and evenlike hospital food.
(21:13):
That's the thing is like we get, we get them.
You know, you say peoplecardiac arrest, whatever it may
be, and then they're gonna eatthe same stuff.
My dad I was my dad and mystepfather both had triple.
One of them had a quadruplebypass.
And then what he was eating andboth of them were eating in the
hospital to recover and thedietary like guidelines that
(21:36):
they gave them for after theyhad their bypass.
I was like oatmeal and orangejuice really like that, yeah,
yeah rubbish exactly, and that'sa big thing too.
So you talk about a lot of timeslike, hey, a good start is just
no sugar or no juices yeah,yeah, so that's what I've done.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
In my own department.
Anybody who orders coffee fromthe barista be it a doctor, a
nurse or a patient or theirfamily the guy from the barista
knows that he can't get thecoffee with sugars into my
department, but with extrasugars, you know, and if
somebody has a problem they'rerouted to me and that they get
like a small nutrition 101 fromme.
I'm like no ways in mydepartment you want to have some
(22:15):
sugar.
You go up to the person.
You have sugar.
It's not coming inside mydepartment.
It's not Even for the F&B, youknow, for the patients who you
know overcrowded in mydepartment and then you know
they're boarding in my ED forlong periods of time.
They need food, right.
So they've been instructed veryclearly no fruit juices for
anyone.
They're going to get servedcarbs anyways, like rice and
(22:38):
lentils and stuff like that.
But then the good thing is, ifI have spoken to a few patients
I'm like do you eat egg?
They're like yeah, okay, fine,don't worry, I'll get you eggs
Instead of the rice and lentils.
We're going to tell the FNBserve them eggs, at least take
that.
And then obviously they get alittle talk from me and you know
, maybe plants a seed, you know.
(22:58):
So I'm trying to plant as manyseeds as possible.
You know, maybe one of themwill grow into a tree, but yeah,
so the FNB is strict orders notto send any fruit juices.
My patients are told by me notto give, not to get any fruit
juices from anywhere, by me notto give, not to get any fruit
juices from anywhere.
(23:18):
So so that's a start hope.
You know, hopefully it catcheson people who know me when, if
they get admitted into thehospital for something or or the
other, their fnb is controlledby me so they get full-on
carnivore.
When, when they're admitted,people who are, who are known to
me, you know.
So the fnb and the dietitiansknow okay, fine, this patient is
, uh, known to dr ronco.
Okay, fine, we're supposed toserve only eggs, chicken and
(23:41):
fish.
You know, they don't get redmeat.
It's a little expensive for thehospital, but at least they get
these three cooked in key orbutter and I mean it's you're.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
You're a trailblazer right like has anybody in your
hospital given you pushback, orare people across other
departments like kind ofstarting to adopt this?
Speaker 2 (24:02):
So the first adoptions happened in my own
department, at the head of mydepartment.
He went carnivore, he reversedhis pre-diabetes and
hypertension, all of that, andhe's now a big advocate and and
and propagates carnivore In hisfriends and families and even in
my department and outsidedepartments.
And people have seen changes,right.
I mean, I've been working inthis hospital since the past 10
(24:24):
years, right.
So all the specialties haveseen my changes.
They're bound to ask how did youlose so much of weight?
What's happening?
So I tell them and they're like, oh, I can't do this and that's
your mindset, but do you knowanything about nutrition?
We actually do not, right.
And then they get a little talkfrom me and I ask them a few
(24:45):
questions about their ownpractices also, like, do you
think this is healthy for ourpatients to be on like 15
medications when we know most ofit can be reversed now, yeah,
but you know, I mean they havetheir point of view too that
it's all there in the guidelines.
I mean, in today's world oflitigations, you need one person
to tell that patient brother,this is what the guideline is.
(25:06):
Your doctor didn't give youthese things.
He's trying to kill you and you, you know you'll be served.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
Wow, and I mean you said, like people are looking at
you because you had this bigbody transformation.
You're saying 22 kilos like fit, almost 50 pounds, right for
the people in America that don'tknow.
Yeah, yeah, that's.
It's amazing, you know, andgetting people to start to
realize this and and it's tough,and you know, I appreciate
(25:36):
doctors like you because you aregoing against the grain and not
everybody's going to be a partof that.
But, and oh, this is what thismedical book says, but the
results speak for themselves.
You know that's it's a hugething, it's a big leap of faith
for you and for other people's.
You know, in your, you knowhospital, around families,
everything, yeah absolutely.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
And you know, nobody actually likes to mess with
emergency physicians becausewe're mavericks, you know we go
out with guns blazing, you knowfor our patients and we're like
we're all for patient advocacyand all of that.
So you know it's very difficultfor them to counter us when we
start asking questions.
Usually we're just quiet and wedo our jobs and you know we
call you in.
Okay, fine, this is a patientfor you and all of that.
(26:17):
We've done this, this, this,this, all of that.
But they know if we startasking questions people will
have to hide.
So you know, not too manypeople actually try and question
me about this Because, again, Imean they've seen the changes,
they've seen all that.
I mean I've asked myneurologists that.
You know you guys don't do lipidprofiles.
(26:38):
Lipid profiles are notmandatory as per guidelines.
They're not mandatory as perguidelines for heart attack
patients or for strokes.
Yet those guidelines ask you toprescribe statins to lower the
cholesterol.
What if a patient asks you whatwas my cholesterol level before
you started off this medication?
Was it high or was it low?
(27:00):
Have you even checked beforegiving me a medication to lower
something?
You want to lower it, that's upto you.
But have you documented thefact that it was high?
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Yeah, that's.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
I have no answer to that.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Right, that leads me to this.
Next, and this is the one thingI want to talk about too is one
like specific biomarkers, kindof talked off arrows, like I
love talking to somebody who's adoctor because you know, when
people talk to me I'm like I cangive you my story, I can give
you a hundred other people'sstories that it's changed their
life to trying to go into acarnivore diet and adopting this
(27:36):
.
But cholesterol is always a bigone, right.
So kind of talk about you knowwhat's high, what's not high,
what is a good mark for that,and you mentioned some profiles,
but what are some you knowbiomarkers that people should be
really asking their doctors for?
Speaker 2 (27:52):
Yeah, I think I believe.
First of all of all for the forthe lipid profile, since
cholesterol is such a worrisometopic for a lot of people.
Don't worry about yourcholesterol levels.
Your body's making it.
Your body wants to make itright.
Your brain's made ofcholesterol.
Your nerve sheets are made ofcholesterol.
Your thyroid, your bile, yourtestosterone, estrogen,
progesterone, cortisol all ofthese are made of cholesterol.
(28:13):
Right, your cell membranes aremade of cholesterol.
Mother's milk has so much ofcholesterol and saturated fats
and proteins, so you need that.
You don't want to stop it.
A lot of my vegetarians actuallyvegetarian patients have low
cholesterol levels.
Why?
Because there's somethingcalled plant sterols, which
actually can mimic cholesteroland provide a negative feedback
(28:36):
mechanism and they reduce thelittle bit of absorption of
saturated fats from your dietaryintakes.
So a lot of them actually havevery low cholesterol levels.
But what is important is thatall of them have, like I
mentioned before, hightriglyceride and HDL ratios.
So the HDL is low, thetriglycerides are high and the
(28:59):
ratios are high.
That ratio should be less than2, ideally less than 1.5, right?
All my patients have more than2, more than 4, more than 6, all
of that.
So if you're doing a lipidprofile, check your triglyceride
and HDL, and people still don'tknow about it because most of
the labs won't market for youtriglyceride to HDL ratio.
You've got to calculate ityourself, so you do that.
(29:22):
You can get your HbA1c fastingand post-trandial insulin levels
, not sugar levels.
You can get a random bloodsugar, no problem, or fasting
blood sugar.
A lot of people have normalfasting blood sugar and normal
A1C, but very high insulinlevels means that you've become
diabetic.
(29:42):
I mean, there's just a littlebit of time left for you to
start having major symptoms, soyou're basically developing
insulin resistance.
So that's an important test.
I also go for the thyroidprofile, not just the TSH, but
the T3, t4, tsh and theantibodies right, the TPO and
(30:04):
the TG, thyroglobulin andthyroxine peroxidase antibodies.
So those are important becausea lot of people have subclinical
Hashimoto's thyroiditis, whichis an autoimmune disorder.
A lot of people have uhsubclinical hashimoto's
thyroiditis, which is anautoimmune disorder, uh a form
of hypothyroidism.
And a lot of the food itemsthat we eat, uh especially how
you oxalate high fetalphytoestrogens, the ones which
(30:26):
disrupt our hormones uh you know, uh can, can cause this, can
lead to this.
Even you know fluoridetoothpaste and any any other.
Uh, you know, water with a lotof fluoride can actually block
iodine uptake also, so that allof these can lead to this.
So, you know, I get a fullthyroid profile done, iron
profile, b12, homocysteine,cortisol levels, vitamin d all
(30:50):
of these are important.
These are the ones that Iusually focus on, and a little
bit of liver functions.
Yes, to diagnose fatty liver,but again, before the markers
get deranged, I also ask mypatients to get an abdominal MRI
done to check out theirvisceral fat.
And, you know, once I show thatto them, it strikes them.
(31:12):
There's so much fat insidewhich is, you know, choking
their organs and they've allbeen directly associated with
every damn disease that you canthink of.
So, yeah, that's one.
I get some fibro scans of theliver done, if people really
want to get it done, which willgive you an indication of how
much fatty liver do you have,and most of them are
(31:33):
non-alcoholic fatty livers.
Most of the liver transplantsthese days are happening to
non-alcoholic fatty liverdisease, right, and people don't
realize that.
You know, even the radiologists.
Most of them don't even reporta grade one fatty liver,
thinking that's all becomenormal.
It's not.
Grade one will go on to gradetwo and grade three and then
lead to cirrhosis when itbecomes irreversible, that's
(31:54):
when you need the transplants.
When you can stop it at gradeone and reverse it, why not Do
that?
So yeah, so these are some ofthe basic profiles that I get
done.
I don't know if I might havemessed up something, but I have
a whole list that the patientsget done.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
Yeah, a lot of the times I mean, I've went in I try
to go to a checkup once a year,just blood work, whatever, and
I got to ask for a lot of stuff.
You know, I've got to ask for alot of things and they're like,
well, you know you don't needthat, you're too young.
And I'm like, oh, like, can youjust, you know, I would like my
, you know, a one C.
I would like, uh, you know, I,I kind of want to get a CAC
(32:31):
score pretty soon here and justtry to like find these different
things.
Cause I was in a position wherearguably the best shape I've
ever been in, you know,endurance racing, and I was just
kind of lean but I was doing itall carnivore and I felt
amazing, I felt great and I wentin just to get a checkup, blood
work.
Oh, like, your cholesterol ispretty high.
(32:52):
I was like, okay, didn't ask meand I apologize for all the
listeners that probably heardthe story a bunch of times for
me but didn't ask me about mynutrition, didn't ask me about,
you know, my workout routine,didn't ask me about my lifestyle
, just said we're going to getyou on some statins.
I'm like, uh, I'm, I'm okay,I'm good.
They're like oh, okay, checkthis.
(33:13):
Cool, and I could just tellthey were going down the list.
And then they're like do youwant to take your flu shot today
?
It doesn't seem like you tookone.
I'm like I'm okay.
They're like okay, all right,see you later.
That was it.
That was the whole conversationthey had with me.
It was like take statins, no,okay, all right, cross that off.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
All right.
See, I think the curriculumsneed to change.
Also, you can't blame all ofthem, you know, because that's
what they've been taught, youknow, I mean.
But the only thing is, peopledo need to wake up, they need to
question what they're doing,and that's how I teach my
residents.
Also, you know there was thisreally cool website called the
Skeptic's Guide to EmergencyMedicine, long time back.
(33:53):
You know this physician fromCanada, ken Mill.
He had started that off.
And you know this physicianfrom Canada, ken Mill.
He had started that off and youknow, I mean, he would break
down evidences in emergencymedicine, what was coming out
and all that you know, and howto be skeptical about everything
.
And you know he had thistagline always be skeptical of
everything.
Even if you've read it on thiswebsite.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
I think I mean that's how you learn.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
If you're skeptical, you know you inquisitive you.
If you're skeptical, you knowyou inquisitive, you ask more
questions and then if somebodyelse doesn't answer, you find
the answers yourself.
Why not?
Even I tell people, even mypatients, that you know I've
done all the research that Icould and I'm still doing that
and I still follow it.
And it's not just about readingone randomized controlled trial
.
That's not it.
(34:33):
You know you need to read thebiochemistries, the physiologies
, the anthropology, the history,so many things, the metabolism
and all of that and the diseases, and even prospective
observational studies can bereally powerful, because even
case reports and anecdotes canbe very powerful.
(34:53):
Because that's where thequestion starts from why did
this happen to me?
Does it happen to somebody else?
We're looking for it.
You know you'll find something,or you'll find something that
that matches, uh, the wholesubset, right.
So you know, but read, makeyour own inferences.
You know we're putting out the,the information that we believe
should be there for everybody.
(35:14):
You know, because there's been alot of propaganda, there's been
a lot of myths, there's been alot of dogmas regarding
nutrition.
You know, I mean popeyethinking or, you know, spreading
the lies that spinach is thebest food for iron, you know,
and I used to believe that.
I used to obviously believethat.
Now I know that's.
That's the the worstinformation you could give out,
(35:37):
right?
So it's been going on for somany decades.
But I'd still tell my patients,my clients do your own research
, Don't believe me blindly andthen come out with your
influences.
If you want to believe me, thenfollow what I'm asking you.
Give me at least six or sevenmonths.
See how you're doing and thenit becomes a lifestyle.
After that you don't need me.
I'll be there for SOS, you know.
(36:00):
I mean I'll be there, obviously.
But you know, stick with theplan for like six months.
See how you do.
You'll see the differences.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
When you talked about the.
You know be skeptical, right?
You know question things.
I was lucky enough to have DrOvedia.
I'm not sure if you're familiarwith Dr Ovedia.
I'm not sure if you're familiarwith Dr Ovedia.
Yeah, he came on, we werechatting and one of the things
that he we talked about is kindof like quotes or sayings, like
(36:27):
in the medical profession is youknow, half of the things that
you learn in medical school willbe proven wrong by the time you
retire.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
I mean I tell that to myresidents again.
I mean not tell that to myresidents again.
I mean not just for that, butyou know something like the most
typical symptoms that you readin your textbook that this is
the classic textbookpresentation of probably a heart
attack would be the leastcommon symptom you'll see in
(36:54):
real life.
That'll be the rarest symptom.
They'll come with vaguesymptoms and they'll end up with
a heart attack.
You know you end up diagnosingwith a heart attack.
So you know things like that.
You know when you have textbookpresentations they're actually
the rarest.
That's why they're calledtextbook presentations.
They're not the most commonones.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
And when you spoke about the thyroid too, my mother
had her thyroid removed yearsago, years ago and I've just
recently not recently, but overthe few years, just she knows
what I've been doing I've had mybattles with weight and things
like that and I've gotten to thepoint where I feel really great
.
My body composition is great.
(37:33):
I had belferitis in my eyes.
That was like crazy because Iwas vegan for a while.
I've cured all those autoimmunethings.
It's been life-changing andwonderful.
My mom is now just starting tohave some hand issues and she's
kind of carnivore, but notreally.
She's just eating more meat,which is a step in the right
(37:55):
direction.
But she's at the point rightnow where they don't know what's
happening with her hands.
It's been a little bit of anissue.
So and they're talking about,like it could be, this
autoimmune thing.
I'm like my we gotta, I thinkwe gotta go a little strict.
I go, she goes.
Tony, I was just going to tellyou that I really want to go
full blown carnivore.
I'm like, let's try it out.
(38:15):
What's the, what's the worstthat happens if we're in the
same spot as we are today, okay,so be it, but let's give 30, 45
, 90 days and see what happensversus.
You know, she's a fear of likelosing the you know, the ability
to move her hands and like, hey, let's give this a try, because
the doctors are kind of baffledright now but yeah, that's
(38:36):
awesome, man, that's, that's,that's like a rockstar move for
people that listen to you, thatwant to, you know, put their
their big toe in this carnivorepool.
You know, how do you get peopleto start out like is it, hey, we
need to go full-blown carnivoreor what's some advice that
(38:56):
people like?
I'm thinking about this, I'mhearing all these things.
I might have some of theseissues that they're talking
about.
How do you get people to takethe first steps?
Speaker 2 (39:04):
yeah.
So I mean, first of all, I tryand break as many myths as as
possible.
I first answer their ownquestions and, uh, with, with
credible sources, and then I askthem to do the metabolic
profiles and once I have that,you know, that picture is clear
to them.
You know, I let them know.
Okay, find your B12 deficientand you've got high homocysteine
(39:26):
levels.
You're getting somenon-alcoholic fatty liver, your
TSH is a little on the higherside, so you're getting
hypothyroid.
Your cholesterol levels are low, so your cholesterol levels are
low.
Your thyroid is also going toget affected, right?
So you know, your hormones aregoing up and down, your
triglycerides are creeping up,your HDL is going down.
All of that is there, right,and some of them obviously the
people who actually do approachme are omnivores, right, I mean,
(39:49):
they do enjoy the meat, butthey don't eat enough and they
eat a lot of other stuff alongwith it, right?
So it's not that difficult forthem to convert, except, you
know, I mean, obviously, uh,some of them have issues like
autoimmunity and all, and theyusually think it's going to be a
quick fix.
It's going to be, like you know, in a week or 10 days.
They must have heard somestories and you know, I mean,
(40:10):
some people do have that uh kindof a response to carnivore
where, like you know, in 10 days, two weeks, they they get
relieved of most of the symptoms.
But all my patients I tell themthat don't expect the same
thing to happen to everybody.
It all depends on how muchwe've abused our own bodies.
What all have we eaten?
Some of them, if they've beenlike pure vegetarians.
(40:30):
I've had only one or two.
I've had two patients actuallywho've gone full-blown carnivore
and they've never eaten meatsbefore, which is fantastic, and
they've never eaten meats before, you know, which is fantastic,
and they're doing really well.
One of them has rheumatoidarthritis and she hasn't had a
flare-up in like months probably.
The other one was vegetarianbecause of religious reasons and
her husband is an omnivore andthey settled in Goa and she's
(40:56):
like you know, I want to starteating meat.
And they settle and go and thenshe's like you know, I want to
start eating meat.
I was like wow, cause that I'mnot going to say what religion
she has, I don't want anybacklash, but yeah, I mean, you
know they're quite strict aboutvegetarianism, so I'm really
happy and she's doing reallywell.
You know.
I mean she had a lot of IBS andgut issues and anxiety and, you
know, skin issues and all ofthat, and and she knew that she
(41:19):
would get flared up whenever shewould eat foods which are the
ones allowed in her religion,you know, and once she went
full-on carnival.
She's doing so much better, soI'm really happy.
So, yeah, there's some people Iease into it.
Uh, there's some people I'mlike, you know, to go cold
turkey and let's see, I meanthere are some with fibromyalgia
, you know they wake up with alot of pains, they don't sleep
properly, and these are the oneswho actually see really quick
(41:43):
reversal in like three or fourdays.
I've got one who's like 170kilos, that's like what 350 or
400 pounds or something likethat.
I've told him that you know,let's, you know you need to
challenge yourself.
I've taken up the challenge,we'll get you fixed up.
So, yeah, he's lost about fiveor six kilos till now in like
two months, which is okay, notbad, yeah, yeah, and his wife is
(42:04):
helping him, supporting him anddoing it along with him and she
lost like a bunch of 15 kilos,yeah, yeah we in my experience
and and again, there's alwaysthere's gonna be naysayers out
there.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
But just from the people I've talked to and again
me I was former vegetarian for afew years too I see this more,
and this is just my personalperspective on this carnivore
(42:40):
and staying versus.
I have yet to hear again for me, somebody go that was like I'm
carnivore and then didn't youknow, didn't enjoy it, Didn't
feel the results, Didn't youknow?
Just it was didn't work forthem and they're like you know
what?
I'm going to go vegan.
I haven't heard anybody thatI've spoken to that are like,
yeah, I was carnivore and youknow what, Didn't agree with it,
(43:03):
it I went back to vegan or I'mvegan.
Now, off of that, I just seemore vegans, more vegetarians,
even the people in the ketospace, low carb space, trying
carnivore and absolutely lovingit.
So there, there is this shiftand there's this grassroots
movement with information goingout there and just people trying
it yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (43:15):
I mean, uh, it's the same with me.
I've not seen or heard ofanybody who went from carnivore
to vegan.
But yeah, I've interviewed alot of vegan turned carnivores
and they've been on my podcastquite a few of them, you know
there's James, there's Laura, Ihad a few others recently.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
Yeah, so it never works the other way around and
you know, speaking of gettingthe message out there in the
stories, the Desi EM project,right, that's one.
Podcasting is a big overtaking.
You know of just like a lot ofdifferent things and you've had
like kind of the who's who ofcarnivore people on your podcast
, right, how has thatcontributed to either your inner
(43:56):
circle or people in India,Because you have a huge
following?
Speaker 2 (44:01):
Yeah, I like to believe that people have started
following it quite a bit.
So, I mean, I started this offin 2021.
It was basically the Desi EMproject stands for the Desi
Emergency Medicine Project, andDesi is why Indians are called
Desis in the US, right?
So, yeah, that's why it wasDesi EM project, and it was
basically to bust a lot of mythsand dogmas regarding emergency
(44:22):
medicine.
Like you know, when to come tothe ED, when not to come to the
emergency department, what isemergency medicine all about?
You know some clinical stuffregarding some drugs that we use
, like ketamine and stuff likethat.
And then, once I realized thatemergency medicine is so closely
related to metabolic syndromesand metabolic health, I'm trying
(44:43):
to amalgamate the two of them.
Like I mentioned before, exceptfor the trauma patients coming
in unless and until they haveknown comorbid conditions, all
my patients have complicationsof metabolic syndromes and
metabolic dysfunctions.
Or they're coming in withcomplications of the medications
they're on for those samesyndromes and metabolic
dysfunctions, right, or they'recoming in with complications of
the medications they're on forthose same syndromes and
dysfunctions.
(45:03):
And so emergency medicine has abig role to play in trying to
dispel the myths and, you know,let people know what exactly the
facts are.
Why are you sick?
Have that conversation?
Because emergency medicine isknown for patient advocacy.
If a surgeon doesn't want totake a patient to the OR, we're
the ones.
Like you know, god damn it.
(45:24):
This patient requires a surgery.
Right now I'm shipping thepatient to the OR.
That way we're like that andthen we can actually do this.
I tell everybody that I've seenthe matrix.
It's time you guys see thematrix, especially in some of
the conferences that I go to foremergency medicine.
I'm like you know, we guys aredoing a really good job of
saving lives in that moment oftime, like I mentioned before.
(45:45):
But what about that?
Are they actually getting saved?
Are they actually surviving forlong?
We know we might not be therewhen they come back the second
time.
Why should they come back thesecond time?
They shouldn't.
So we're not doing our jobs.
How many doctors can proudlysay that my opity numbers have
gone down because my patientsdon't need me anymore, because
I've cured their syndromes andthey do not require medications?
Speaker 1 (46:08):
no, zero yeah, you might add some years to their
life.
Right in the moment you savethem.
You're going to add some yearsto life.
But we're going to talk aboutquality of years because you
were asking earlier, like whyare they on 15 different
medications?
Like what is your quality oflife Ten years down the road if
you don't change anything?
You're just focused on I'mgoing to take these medications
(46:41):
of that and be able to livequality life and be of service
and of purpose.
You know, versus how manypeople do we see that?
You know can't walk, can't moveum, all of these things and
they can't contribute anymore tosociety because of health
issues.
Speaker 2 (46:50):
Yeah, absolutely so.
That's what my my podcast isall about.
I'm going to start off awebsite soon it's under
construction, uh, uh which willhave links to the podcast and,
you know, some articles andstuff, and call the contact
address or an email If peoplewant to get in touch and get a
(47:12):
carnival consultant.
That's all of that's going tobe on the website soon, so let's
hope that starts off.
Speaker 1 (47:17):
I mentioned, you had the who's who and I like to
anybody that's podcasting, Ialways ask this question of like
, what's one episode or guestthat you had on?
That was like a life-changingmoment.
I've had a few where I've, likeyou know, asked questions and I
got like these aha, you canname one or a few that have been
on your podcast.
Speaker 2 (47:35):
That's like wow, oh yeah yeah, I had quite a few wow
ones, you know.
So, anthony chafee, I've hadhim twice.
Both of them were brilliant.
Uh, sally norton, you know theoxalate queen.
Sean baker, the king ofcarnival, you know, uh, he was
fantastic.
And I had some really awesome.
Uh, you know nuggets from seanamistle Fat he's so full of
(48:00):
energy and he's a Whistle Fatexpert.
Zoe Harcombe, she wasabsolutely brilliant.
Gary Fetke, from Australia Imean, he was sued for a long
time and he came out of that.
Dr Robert Kills, lisa Wiedemannthese guys were amazing.
I mean OBGYN and he's doingsuch a brilliant job.
Lisa Wiedemann, these guys wereamazing.
I mean you know OBGYN and he'sdoing such a brilliant job.
(48:21):
And Lisa Wiedemann is anophthalmologist who's also a
carnivore.
She's been a long-termcarnivore for like 15 years.
And two really dynamic ones Ilove is Professor Bart Kay.
He's like this powerhouse ofknowledge.
You know, he's been a professorfor like 20 years and he's
taught exercise, physiology,anatomy, cardiovascular
(48:44):
pathologies and all of that.
He's published a lot.
And Eddie Gokey he's a young,dynamic guy.
He's reversing Ehlers-DanlosSyndrome through Carnival and
he's such a sharp mind I meanthe way he speaks.
He's already authored a book.
Basically, he was doing a lotof research into biochemistry
(49:07):
and metabolism and he wrotepapers and when he looked at it
he was like you know, this is alot of material and he compiled
it all into a book.
It's called Contraindicatedfantastic.
So, yeah, I mean I've had, Imean it's been.
So I learned a lot of therandall cycle from eddie.
I mean he's like 20 yearsyounger to me probably and he
and he taught that to me and itwas just fantastic.
(49:28):
So, uh, a lot of uh, brightminds, a lot of others who've,
you know, who've been through alot of disease through their
veganism or vegetarianism.
Mimi morgan, she was one who was71 years old.
Reversing 14 syndromes at 71years of age, including
parkinson's syndrome, issomething that which is
(49:51):
mind-blowing, absolutelymind-blowing.
Yeah, I, she had Dupuytren'scontracture, rheumatoid
arthritis, parkinson's, she hada stroke, she had MRSA.
Her WBC counts had fallen downto almost zero, you know,
because of all the antibioticsand the infections that she had
had A lot of things, you know.
And then she, at the age of 67,she started going carnival 67.
(50:14):
And by 71, she was off allmedications.
I never seen anybody take thedoses of medications that she
had for parkinson's that highdollar, that higher dose and all
came off, which is amazing.
And she walks out, she liftsweight.
Somebody who suffered fromparkinson's lifts weights at the
age of 71.
Speaker 1 (50:31):
Imagine that, yeah I'm a big, I'm big advocate of
strength training.
I think, again, it doesn't haveto be oh, we got to put on 400
pounds or 200 kilos on the bar,but I think any type of
resistance training and buildingmuscle is one of the best
things you can do, in tandemwith a good nutrition background
(50:53):
and making sure that you'rereally cutting the junk.
And there's going to be peoplethat don't agree with carnivore.
There's going to be people thatlove carnivore.
I think, at the end of the day,we need to get back to eating
real food, right Stuff that'spackaged, ultra processed,
highly palatable.
It's just not good for us and Ithink you know a lot of
(51:13):
countries are now.
Either they have bans orwhatever.
The States is starting, china,the United States is making a
little bit of shift.
It's slow, but I think they'rejust looking at like, wow, kids
are sick, middle-aged people aresick, elderly are sick.
It's like there has to be a wehave to change.
We have to change and nutritionis something to look at.
(51:36):
Lifestyle is a big piece aswell, but I just think
everything you're doing isawesome, and I told you as well,
like I love talking to doctorsbecause I can speak till I'm
blue in the face, but you knowjust the amount of research
you've done and you know reallyhow to go into those white
papers too.
Where I'm not, you know I've.
I did in school, but I'm not asvast as some of you guys.
(51:58):
Like you guys are just diggingto the white papers and really
pull out the information intandem of speaking to people and
getting stories.
I love everything you're doing.
Speaker 2 (52:07):
Yeah, even about you know evidences and papers and
all.
It's not like everybody canread papers, but you know I've
had the experience.
I've published 42 papers, be itfrom case to post to case
series, to randomized controlstudies, prospective studies,
retrospective studies.
So I know how to go throughresearch.
You know I can make my owninferences right.
So you know, for those whothink that I don't know how to
(52:29):
read, you know I'll let you knowthat I do know how to read
because I've published myself.
And once you start publishingit's not that you know I go
around publishing anything.
Yes, I've had some case reportswhich got published, which I
wasn't expecting to getpublished.
Yeah, that was earlier on in mycareer.
But you know I've published alot of research.
I published a lot of caseseries, prospective observation,
(52:50):
observational studies, and onceyou're publishing, you know you
actually read a lot of otherpapers.
Know, and just my training, youknow emergency medicine is the
most evidence-based uh branch ofmedicine.
You know we use a lot ofevidence space uh for that.
So you know we know how to getinto that.
But again, for nutrition,there's no good evidence which
(53:12):
can prove causation and causeand effect for anything it can.
Right, it's always got to be anassociation and a correlation.
And then you correlate thatwith the biochemistry, the
physiology and the metabolismsand metabolic functions and all
the enzymatic processes andthink, okay, fine, this is
associated with this.
(53:32):
This is what these things.
You know this is how it goesthrough in your body, so this
might be causing this.
You know that's how you're.
This is how it goes through inyour body, so this might be
causing this.
You know that's how you'resupposed to work it around.
It's impossible to do arandomized control study which
is well controlled to proveanimal versus plant causing this
or that.
Speaker 1 (53:50):
It's not possible yeah, and you spoke about um.
You know the website's going tobe taken off, things like that.
What's in the future for youAny big engagements or other
projects that are happening foryou?
Speaker 2 (54:04):
Yeah, I mean I'm working on my carnival consults.
People do get in touch with meon my Instagram for that.
Obviously, through my website,they'll get more information.
That's something in thepipeline.
I'm planning to do somethinglike a retreat, a carnival
retreat, in India, because I'mpretty sure that's something in
the pipeline.
I'm planning to do somethinglike a retreat, a carnival
retreat, in India, because I'mpretty sure that's not that's
never been done here Stillworking out the logistics and
(54:26):
the funding for that, how it'sgoing to work out.
So yeah, let's see.
I mean I have a few friendswho've actually, you know,
chipped in with their graymatters, with ideas and stuff.
But yeah, let's see how thatworks.
So I'm taking it slow.
Obviously, I'm trying to raiseas much awareness as possible
(54:46):
through my social media, even onLinkedIn.
So I put a lot of my podcastson LinkedIn because there's a
whole professional network overthere.
So a lot of doctors areactually going through what I'm
talking about, or what my guestsare talking about, and I'm
hoping that, you know it sparksa conversation somewhere.
You know, because you know, asa doctor, I can't touch 1.4
(55:10):
billion people in India.
Right, you need many touchpoints and that's required.
So I mean, these are some ofthe plans that I have.
Let's see how it works out.
Speaker 1 (55:15):
I think that's people are are now.
They're going for experiencesand talking to doctors too.
I don't I have had melissa beon.
She did like this carnivoreconversations, uh whole thing in
australia.
As we're speaking right now, Iknow it's going to air after the
fact everybody's at meat stockright now.
Um, I, I wanted to go.
(55:35):
I just can't go this weekend,but I said next year that I'm
going to go.
But I mean, a retreat in Indiawould be super cool.
That'd be awesome.
Well, ankur, thank you so much.
I appreciate you taking thetime and I'm glad we finally got
this locked down.
What is a spot that you can beconnected with, with people if
they want to reach out?
Speaker 2 (55:56):
Thanks so much for having me, tony.
Tony man, it was an absoluteblast that I had.
It was really awesome talkingto you and if people want to
connect with me, I'm most activeon my instagram, uh, where I am
the carnivoreep emergencyphysician, so the carnivoreep,
you can dm me or follow me there.
I mean mean I'll help you out.
(56:16):
I have my carnival consults.
Through that, people get intouch with me and hopefully the
website comes up soon.
It's going to be thetecemprojectcom, so once it's
live, it's going to be on myInstagram and my other socials.
I am on X, but not very active.
Linkedin, you can find me as DrAnkur Verma here, and Facebook
(56:38):
here.
Speaker 1 (56:39):
I'll put that all in the show notes.
We'll get those links in thereand once again, thanks for
coming on and thanks foreverybody listening to another
episode of the PrimalFoundations podcast.
Today's guest is Dr Ankar Verma.
He's an emergency medicalspecialist based in New Delhi,
india, known for his advocacy ofthe carnivore diet and his
focus on metabolic health.
He's the creator and host ofthe very successful podcast Desi
EM Project Ankar.
Welcome to the PramoFoundation's podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Thank you so much, Tony.
Man, I'm so happy that wefinally got to talk together
after months of, you know, goingback and forth with the timings
.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Yes, yes, we've been going back and forth a little
bit.
You know we scheduled one dayand I messed up the timings and
I was like he's like, yeah,we're on, I'm like we're on
right now, back and forth.
But I appreciate yourflexibility and finally making
this happen and talk to offcamera about all of your stuff.
(00:49):
You've been doing your podcastand promoting the carnivore diet
and I love talking aboutpeople's stories and all the
messaging that you're puttingout there.
But for our listeners I kind ofwant to talk about your
upbringing, because it's kind ofa piece of it is your journey
of the cultural background ofNew Delhi and like nutritional
choices that are kind ofassociated with that culture and
(01:11):
growing up in New Delhi.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Yeah, I mean, I was.
I was always a meat eater.
I always enjoyed, you know,chicken, mutton and fish and all
that.
That's what my family alsotells me.
You know, when I was growing upgrowing up, you know, even at
like two years or something whenI would walk around I would
start salivating.
When there would be chicken ormutton or something made at home
, I would go into the kitchenand you know I'll cluck like a
(01:34):
chicken that I wanted to havesome chicken.
You know.
Just make some hand movements,I want some fish.
That's what I've heard.
And uh, whenever we used to gofor parties at families,
especially my grandparents'place, you know they would have
like a wonderful meat dish madespecially just for me and there
would be another dish made forthe rest of the family.
So that's how much I alwaysloved meat.
But you know, growing up notjust in New Delhi or North India
(01:57):
, you know, anywhere in India welove our carbohydrates and that
was always there, you know.
I mean, if you look at thebreakfast choices all all across
india, so in north india it'susually once it got westernized
obviously there were cereals andsandwiches and stuff.
But if you go more indian,there's like aloo parathas,
which is like, well, you knowthese, uh, what should I say?
(02:21):
Uh, potatoes stuffed in thesesort of rotis, right?
And then they cook that on panswith oils and ghee and stuff,
and then there'll be somethinglike chole patore and pav bhaji,
which is all carbohydrates,like breads and a lot of
(02:41):
chickpeas and potatoes.
You go south, you have, youknow, idlis and dosas and sambar
vadas, all of that.
It's all made of rice and othercarbohydrates.
You go to the west, you havesomething called poha and
theplas and stuff, which isagain all carbohydrate.
And you go to the east, theyhave, you know, a few other
dishes.
So that's how the Indianbreakfast starts off, right.
(03:02):
And once people thought, sothat's how the Indian breakfast
starts off, right.
And once people thought let'shave something healthy, they'd
get onto fruits, you know, forbreakfast and think that that's
a nice light dish to have earlyin the morning, not realizing
that in like two or three hoursthey'll start eating more and,
you know, want to have some moremeals.
So you know, through my years,obviously I was having all my
meat and my eggs and everything,but obviously carbohydrate did
(03:26):
happen.
But I would have, I would havemy big share of mutton or
chicken, for sure, but then thatwould be accompanied with, you
know, rice or rotis or naans.
And you know, most of the time,most of the weeks, I would
definitely have meat, like maybefive or six times a week.
But then, if I have 21 meals ina week, five or six times a week
, but then if I have 21 meals ina week, five or six times is
not enough, especially when it'saccompanied with all of these
(03:48):
carbohydrates, right?
So, uh, and then, obviously,junk food did happen, like you
know, all the pizzas and theburgers and, uh, the chips and
the nachos and soft drinks,everything through college, even
through school, you know icecreams and everything.
All of that, obviously, I meanI traveled around the world, I
(04:12):
used to love the AmericanCoca-Cola and the Frosties and
all of that.
So you know, I mean, when Iused to go there, I would have
tons of that.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
So you know, all of that happened through the years
till one fine day I woke uphappened through the years, uh,
uh, till one fine day I woke upnow growing up, like in america,
we had the food pyramid.
That was when I was growing up.
That was a big thing.
You know your breads, your rice, your carbohydrates for like
that big chunk of that pyramid.
And then we transitioned inamerica to the my plate, which
(04:40):
is like basically half of it isgoing to be vegetables and the
another quarter of it's going tobe carbohydrates, other other
complex carbohydrates or simplecarbs, and then you're going to
have, like this, one littlesliver of any type of red meat
or protein or whatever it may be.
Growing up, was that somethingthat was like in school.
Was that kind of preached likethis is how you eat, or you guys
(05:02):
have something different?
Speaker 2 (05:04):
no, no, I don't think it was ever preached in school.
I remember when I went toschool we were allowed to carry
our own meat.
You know we had options forhome lunch and school lunch.
School lunch would always bevegetarian, but if you're
getting home lunch, you couldget whatever you want.
That was back then.
You know, more than 30 yearsback.
Now, most of the schools allowonly school lunches, which are
(05:27):
all vegetarian, because there'sa lot of uh propaganda behind
that.
But uh, yeah, I mean, growing upwe didn't know much about the
pyramids.
Like I said, I I mean I camefrom a family that enjoyed
eating meat.
You know, uh, all it was withcarbohydrates, but we, we never
shunned meat.
We knew that it's important forus and you know it's what gets
(05:49):
us some nutrients, even if wedid not know what nutrients
properly.
But then, growing up, that wasnot an issue.
Only recently, I think, therehas been more talk about the
food plate, which has, you know,been advocated by the Indian
Council of Medical Research,which is the exact same, like
the plate in the UK or the foodpyramid in the US.
(06:09):
It's all taken from there.
It's the same.
I mean the food plate.
You should have your cerealsand grains and legumes and
lentils, fruits, vegetables andif there's any little thing left
, have some eggs or maybe somedairy and maybe a little bit of
lean meat, specifically whitemeat.
So yeah, I mean it's justcopy-paste from other countries,
right?
And what the ICMR doesn'trealize is this is what India
(06:32):
eats.
We've been eating that foryears, the same plate, you know,
and we're still very sick,right?
So I mean they don't, and theyalways blame it only on
westernization and that junkfood came in and all that, but
it's not.
I mean, diabetes in India hasbeen documented for centuries,
(06:54):
right, since 600 BC.
So, and you know, I mean therehave been diseases before, just
that it wasn't getting diagnosed, obviously because medical
science was not that updated andwas not that advanced at that
time.
But yeah, I mean, even if youhave documentation of diabetes
from 600 PC, you've got to thinkabout it, yeah, why that was
(07:16):
happening.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
And you know you're going through school.
You got to make a career choiceand you chose you know medical
field.
What made you get into that?
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Yeah, it's an interesting story.
I mean, only one of my uncleswas a cardiologist from my
family, so that was the onlydoctor we had in the family and
he was practicing in the UK, soobviously I didn't have too much
of an influence from him, but Iknew that he's there.
And I think when I was inschool, in class 9th or 10th, we
were supposed to write anobituary for ourselves, you know
(07:47):
, looking into the future.
That was like a homework orsomething and that's like what,
27, 28 years back or somethinglike that, and I wrote about a
world famous neurosurgeon whodies and you know an Richard
regarding that, and that was in,I think, class 9, and probably
(08:08):
that planted a seed in my brainbecause from class 10 or 11
we're supposed to choose ourstreams and so I chose biology
and medicine after that.
That's what I can think of.
I don't know why just thathomework actually influenced me
in some way to go ahead and tryand become a doctor.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
So yeah, and here I am that's so cool because I'm a
my my main profession is aphysical education teacher in
the states in chicago, and uh,it's cool.
Like you always hear the onething where a kid picks up
something up in a class, in aproject and that just kind of
like piques their interest andthey just run with it and it
(08:50):
just becomes their own.
You know, now you're goingthrough medical school, you're
getting all this training.
You know, where?
Where does this carnivore diethappen?
Where?
What makes you make this shift?
Speaker 2 (09:03):
yeah, this carnivore diet happened 15 years after I
passed out, you know.
So, yeah, I mean, I became adoctor in 2006.
And in 2021, you know, with allthe COVID and all going on I
realized my triglycerides hadhit 600, right, and my
triglyceride to HDL ratio was 16.
(09:24):
That's abysmal.
I knew about metabolic syndrome, but not in the way I know
about it now.
But, yeah, I mean, I knew mytriglycerides were high because
of my carbohydrate intakes,right, and so I started to work
on that.
I immediately shut off all junkfood and processed sugars.
I actually removed a lot ofdals and rotis and all that and
(09:47):
I cut down my rice intake, but Iwas still doing rice.
So, you know, sort of like alow carb, keto kind of a thing,
I increased my meat.
I actually avoided a little bitof red meat in the start, just,
you know, just to see whathappens.
You know, and.
But but then I started doing myresearch into nutrition because
I figured that as a doctor, Ididn't know much about nutrition
, and and, and I knew none of mycolleagues were going to guide
(10:10):
me through nutrition, because nodoctors are trained in
nutrition, right, and obviouslyI was on instagram and and, and
I saw I, I did my keto and andand low carb for about six
months.
I I lost a bunch of weight butI still had inflammation, and
that I can definitely vouch forwhen I look at photographs back.
It took me like about fivemonths to lose like 22 or 23
(10:35):
kilos.
You know, once I went low carband I used to always exercise
right, so it took me just fivemonths or six months to lose 22,
kilos.
But then I started doing my youknow due diligence.
I started researching intonutrition.
I started reading a lot, of lotmore books.
I went back into mybiochemistry and physiology
textbooks from like 25 yearsback and uh, I I came across so
(10:59):
that that was like about a yearand a half or something like
that, till 2023 april, whensomebody sent me paul saladino's
reel when he was still acarnivore, and uh, and then it
made a lot of sense to me, youknow.
And then I started doing moreresearch into it.
I started doing my.
I mean, my podcast was alreadygoing on.
I started getting more guestsonto it.
I read through all the papersthat are there, you know, uh,
(11:22):
thousands of them be it aboutlipids or nutrition or animal
based foods, plant-based and uh,you know bioavailable nutrients
, biodigestible nutrients,whatever there is.
You know everything, thepropaganda and everything,
everything anthropology, uh.
And obviously I was reading mytextbooks again and you know it
just made a lot of sense to meand I was like this is something
(11:45):
that's not been done right byus and to us as doctors also,
because I reversed a lot ofthings.
You know, I reversed mymetabolic syndrome, I reversed
esophagitis, I reversed bladdercontrol, libido, a lot of things
you know and we get to realizethese things once these symptoms
also disappear.
So a lot of things you know andwe get to realize these things
(12:07):
once these symptoms alsodisappear.
You know my heartburn,gastritis, acidity, gerd
symptoms, all of theseabsolutely it had become a norm
for me to pop in an antacidafter dinner every night,
thinking, ok, fine, this is thecourse of life.
You know that was.
I was also put on someantihypertensives and statins in
the first four or five months.
Some antihypertensives andstatins in the first four or
five months once I had diagnosedmyself with metabolic syndrome,
(12:29):
but then I shut them off myselfand my BP is absolutely fine.
I'm okay with my cholesterollevels being high.
You know, my triglycerides arenow 90 and my TG2 ratio is about
0.901, something like that from16.
So so I went into full-blowncarnival.
I saw a lot of difference.
I helped out my family, myuncle, my late uncle actually.
(12:53):
He was a diabetic for 25 yearsand he was asked to go on to
insulin last year January youknow and for dialysis.
He was diagnosed with a renaltumor at that time and that
renal tumor was obviouslybecause he had uncontrolled
diabetes.
And we had a discussion, toldhim okay, fine, give me two
(13:14):
months, don't do insulin anddialysis, let's see.
And he went full on carnivoreand in two months his HBA once
he came down from 7.5 to 4, hissugars were absolutely fine, his
blood pressure was fine.
His doctor actually wrote onhis prescription, recovered from
diabetes and hypertension anddoes not require any more
medications.
I got his doctor to write thatWow, this hadn't happened for 25
(13:36):
years because he was told tokeep an HbA1c of 7, which is a
good control, take hismedications and cover it with
carbohydrates.
Obviously I mean he's no more,unfortunately, but he fought
through it, even on Carnivore.
And he started doing metabolictherapy for his cancer.
The first pet actually showed,or the second pet actually
(13:58):
showed reversal of some of themeds.
And then he went to some otheroncologists also who put him on
some oral medications and allthat.
But yeah, I mean, besides that,a lot of other my of my friends
and family went carnivore.
They've reversed a lot ofsyndromes, you know infertility,
non-alcoholic, fatty liver,pcos, hypertension,
hypothyroidism.
I'm actually reversingosteoporosis and rheumatoid
(14:21):
arthritis in a couple of mypatients.
So yeah, I mean, carnivoresreally help.
It is the way to go.
It's basically what I feel ispeople are sick because of lack
of essential nutrientsbioavailable and biodigestible
essential nutrients andoverabundance of anti-nutrients.
That's what a plant-based dietdoes to you.
That's what the vegetarian diet, the standard Indian vegetarian
(14:43):
diet, actually does to you.
Right, you're having so much ofcarbohydrates and lectins and
phytates and oxalates andphytoestrogens all of these, you
know, and they're causing somuch of harm.
And I actually you know, opine,that exogenous carbohydrates
should be an anti-nutrient, youknow.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
So yeah, and that's what I feel, and I'm seeing that
in my patients every day.
You know, people don't realizelike we're.
We're so prone to jumping ontothe next pill or a shot or what
it, whatever it is, uh, but justlooking down back at what we're
actually putting in our bodiesis huge.
And with that insulin piece,you know, uh, what is it?
(15:40):
One in every four might even behigher.
At this point, I think it mightbe like over half now of people
are being diagnosed with typetwo diabetes, right, and just
masking the problem, just say,hey, here's your pump, here's
your insulin, continue to eathow you want to.
Insulin is expensive.
Everything is like really justpushed up on doctors and again,
(16:02):
like you mentioned, like not alot of doctors are trained in
nutrition and again, doctors aredoing the best that they can.
But just I look back at youknow some doctors that are like,
hey, I'm doing all of this work, I'm prescribing insulin,
statins, whatever, but yet mypatients are still sick.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Yeah, absolutely they are going to be.
Yeah, for sure.
So I spoke to a few people whoworked in the pharma company my
good friend from school, ekta,and Shashi Khan from India and,
I think, selena, if I'm notwrong, and all of them have
worked in pharmas with diabetesand statins and I had one
(16:45):
question for them Did any ofyour board of directors actually
say we need to cure thesediseases, so we stop selling
less medication?
They're like no ways, no ways.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
It's a big machine.
It's a big machine and I thinkdoctors don't realize that.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
See, I mean, it's like you correctly mentioned,
it's not their fault.
But then you know, it's likeyou correctly mentioned, it's
not their fault.
But then you know,disillusionment actually leads
to enlightenment.
A wise man once said right, Iknow I've been disillusioned and
I know that I've seen thematrix.
Why?
Because a lot of my patientsnot all my patients who come in
have complications of metabolicsyndromes or complications of
(17:21):
the medications that they're on.
But somebody has to ask thequestion what are we doing as
doctors, even as me as anemergency physician?
You know I'm going to save alife in that moment of time,
right?
So somebody comes in with aheart attack right, that's a
complication of a metabolicsyndrome.
Right, you've come in with that.
I save you at that time.
Put you on some medications,get a stent, put.
All of that happens Like 90% ofthe times.
(17:42):
You're going to be a purevegetarian who does not eat eggs
or meat or anything, right?
You discharge on medications asper guidelines, fair enough.
But you are also told continuethe food that you're eating.
Well, you were actually eatingthat.
Did a cardiologist speak to you?
Why did you have this?
Why did you have a heart attack?
You're a non-smoker, you don'tdrink and you're a pure
(18:04):
vegetarian.
You were not supposed to have aheart attack.
You're a non-smoker, you don'tdrink and you're a pure
vegetarian.
You were not supposed to have aheart attack.
Your lipid profiles are normal,right, but it still happened,
right.
And nobody looks at thetriglyceride to HG ratios.
So I mean and we've actuallyopened up retrospective data,
we're looking at the prospectivedata from my department, we've
(18:25):
huge 50-bedded emergency.
We get a lot of heart attackpatients, a lot of strokes, a
lot of cancers, diabeticketoacidosis, ketoacidosis not
ketosis, but ketoacidosis theones that people actually fear
and should, uh.
So you know, uh, that's adiabetes complication again.
And we're looking at what theyeat.
You know this is not just afood frequency questionnaire
that we're doing.
This is food preference, allright.
(18:46):
So we're not asking you howmany times a week to eat
broccoli or spinach.
We're asking you are you avegetarian?
Are you a vegan?
Are you an omnivore?
Are you a pescatarian?
Are you an omnivore?
If you're an omnivore orpescatarian, yes, we do some
food frequencies.
Then, in the sense, howfrequently do you eat?
And most of the times we getthe same answer either on
Sundays or on special occasions.
(19:07):
So 65, 70% of the population isvegetarian.
They're not getting essentialnutrients and they're getting
abundance of anti-nutrients.
And I kid you not I don't knowif you saw my latest content or
not I mean, we're doing aprospective study on heart
attack patients that are cominginto my emergency.
Every one of them had a high TGto HDL ratio Every one and
(19:31):
they're micronutrient deficient.
Almost about 75 or 80 percentof them had b12 deficiency and
or barring three or four out ofthese 70 patients that I have
collected till now, all of themhave high homocysteine levels.
It's like a direct uh, you know.
It causes injuries to yourarteries, it destroys your
(19:54):
glycocalyx uh, it leads tocoagulation of the blood, can
cause thromboembolism and isknown to cause cardiovascular
diseases.
Right, but nobody's looking atthat.
Because to reduce yourhomocysteine, you need to bring
up your B12 levels naturally.
You know I've got a fewpatients where they've taken
supplements.
Their B12 levels went into likethousands, but their
(20:14):
homocysteine was still high andyou need b12 to bring it down.
Right, but the but the syntheticbeetles not doing that.
The natural ones are doing that.
When you're eating the rightfoods, your homocysteines are
settling down, but we're notlooking at that.
Why we're still putting you onstatins.
Why?
But your cholesterol level wasfine.
You want to finish off your ldl, or I mean it used to be a
(20:36):
hundred, now they say 70.
One of my cardiologistsactually told me okay, fine, so
you've got a 15% plug, it'snothing, nothing to be worried
about.
But if your LDL is above 70,try and get below 50 by taking
statins.
I'm like, no ways, I'm not.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
You're all fired up.
I love it.
It's like when people seesomebody that's overweight,
they're like there's no way thatthey're nutrient deficient,
there's no but, but they are,but they are and that, and
people don't realize that.
And also, like you said, hey,we save lives right then and
there, in that moment, and evenlike hospital food.
(21:13):
That's the thing is like we get, we get them.
You know, you say peoplecardiac arrest, whatever it may
be, and then they're gonna eatthe same stuff.
My dad I was my dad and mystepfather both had triple.
One of them had a quadruplebypass.
And then what he was eating andboth of them were eating in the
hospital to recover and thedietary like guidelines that
(21:36):
they gave them for after theyhad their bypass.
I was like oatmeal and orangejuice really like that, yeah,
yeah rubbish exactly, and that'sa big thing too.
So you talk about a lot of timeslike, hey, a good start is just
no sugar or no juices yeah,yeah, so that's what I've done.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
In my own department.
Anybody who orders coffee fromthe barista be it a doctor, a
nurse or a patient or theirfamily the guy from the barista
knows that he can't get thecoffee with sugars into my
department, but with extrasugars, you know, and if
somebody has a problem they'rerouted to me and that they get
like a small nutrition 101 fromme.
I'm like no ways in mydepartment you want to have some
(22:15):
sugar.
You go up to the person.
You have sugar.
It's not coming inside mydepartment.
It's not Even for the F&B, youknow, for the patients who you
know overcrowded in mydepartment and then you know
they're boarding in my ED forlong periods of time.
They need food, right.
So they've been instructed veryclearly no fruit juices for
anyone.
They're going to get servedcarbs anyways, like rice and
(22:38):
lentils and stuff like that.
But then the good thing is, ifI have spoken to a few patients
I'm like do you eat egg?
They're like yeah, okay, fine,don't worry, I'll get you eggs
Instead of the rice and lentils.
We're going to tell the FNBserve them eggs, at least take
that.
And then obviously they get alittle talk from me and you know
, maybe plants a seed, you know.
(22:58):
So I'm trying to plant as manyseeds as possible.
You know, maybe one of themwill grow into a tree, but yeah,
so the FNB is strict orders notto send any fruit juices.
My patients are told by me notto give, not to get any fruit
juices from anywhere, by me notto give, not to get any fruit
juices from anywhere.
(23:18):
So so that's a start hope.
You know, hopefully it catcheson people who know me when, if
they get admitted into thehospital for something or or the
other, their fnb is controlledby me so they get full-on
carnivore.
When, when they're admitted,people who are, who are known to
me, you know.
So the fnb and the dietitiansknow okay, fine, this patient is
, uh, known to dr ronco.
Okay, fine, we're supposed toserve only eggs, chicken and
(23:41):
fish.
You know, they don't get redmeat.
It's a little expensive for thehospital, but at least they get
these three cooked in key orbutter and I mean it's you're.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
You're a trailblazer right like has anybody in your
hospital given you pushback, orare people across other
departments like kind ofstarting to adopt this?
Speaker 2 (24:02):
So the first adoptions happened in my own
department, at the head of mydepartment.
He went carnivore, he reversedhis pre-diabetes and
hypertension, all of that, andhe's now a big advocate and and
and propagates carnivore In hisfriends and families and even in
my department and outsidedepartments.
And people have seen changes,right.
I mean, I've been working inthis hospital since the past 10
(24:24):
years, right.
So all the specialties haveseen my changes.
They're bound to ask how did youlose so much of weight?
What's happening?
So I tell them and they're like, oh, I can't do this and that's
your mindset, but do you knowanything about nutrition?
We actually do not, right.
And then they get a little talkfrom me and I ask them a few
(24:45):
questions about their ownpractices also, like, do you
think this is healthy for ourpatients to be on like 15
medications when we know most ofit can be reversed now, yeah,
but you know, I mean they havetheir point of view too that
it's all there in the guidelines.
I mean, in today's world oflitigations, you need one person
to tell that patient brother,this is what the guideline is.
(25:06):
Your doctor didn't give youthese things.
He's trying to kill you and you, you know you'll be served.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
Wow, and I mean you said, like people are looking at
you because you had this bigbody transformation.
You're saying 22 kilos like fit, almost 50 pounds, right for
the people in America that don'tknow.
Yeah, yeah, that's.
It's amazing, you know, andgetting people to start to
realize this and and it's tough,and you know, I appreciate
(25:36):
doctors like you because you aregoing against the grain and not
everybody's going to be a partof that.
But, and oh, this is what thismedical book says, but the
results speak for themselves.
You know that's it's a hugething, it's a big leap of faith
for you and for other people's.
You know, in your, you knowhospital, around families,
everything, yeah absolutely.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
And you know, nobody actually likes to mess with
emergency physicians becausewe're mavericks, you know we go
out with guns blazing, you knowfor our patients and we're like
we're all for patient advocacyand all of that.
So you know it's very difficultfor them to counter us when we
start asking questions.
Usually we're just quiet and wedo our jobs and you know we
call you in.
Okay, fine, this is a patientfor you and all of that.
(26:17):
We've done this, this, this,this, all of that.
But they know if we startasking questions people will
have to hide.
So you know, not too manypeople actually try and question
me about this Because, again, Imean they've seen the changes,
they've seen all that.
I mean I've asked myneurologists that.
You know you guys don't do lipidprofiles.
(26:38):
Lipid profiles are notmandatory as per guidelines.
They're not mandatory as perguidelines for heart attack
patients or for strokes.
Yet those guidelines ask you toprescribe statins to lower the
cholesterol.
What if a patient asks you whatwas my cholesterol level before
you started off this medication?
Was it high or was it low?
(27:00):
Have you even checked beforegiving me a medication to lower
something?
You want to lower it, that's upto you.
But have you documented thefact that it was high?
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Yeah, that's.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
I have no answer to that.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Right, that leads me to this.
Next, and this is the one thingI want to talk about too is one
like specific biomarkers, kindof talked off arrows, like I
love talking to somebody who's adoctor because you know, when
people talk to me I'm like I cangive you my story, I can give
you a hundred other people'sstories that it's changed their
life to trying to go into acarnivore diet and adopting this
(27:36):
.
But cholesterol is always a bigone, right.
So kind of talk about you knowwhat's high, what's not high,
what is a good mark for that,and you mentioned some profiles,
but what are some you knowbiomarkers that people should be
really asking their doctors for?
Speaker 2 (27:52):
Yeah, I think I believe.
First of all of all for the forthe lipid profile, since
cholesterol is such a worrisometopic for a lot of people.
Don't worry about yourcholesterol levels.
Your body's making it.
Your body wants to make itright.
Your brain's made ofcholesterol.
Your nerve sheets are made ofcholesterol.
Your thyroid, your bile, yourtestosterone, estrogen,
progesterone, cortisol all ofthese are made of cholesterol.
(28:13):
Right, your cell membranes aremade of cholesterol.
Mother's milk has so much ofcholesterol and saturated fats
and proteins, so you need that.
You don't want to stop it.
A lot of my vegetarians actuallyvegetarian patients have low
cholesterol levels.
Why?
Because there's somethingcalled plant sterols, which
actually can mimic cholesteroland provide a negative feedback
(28:36):
mechanism and they reduce thelittle bit of absorption of
saturated fats from your dietaryintakes.
So a lot of them actually havevery low cholesterol levels.
But what is important is thatall of them have, like I
mentioned before, hightriglyceride and HDL ratios.
So the HDL is low, thetriglycerides are high and the
(28:59):
ratios are high.
That ratio should be less than2, ideally less than 1.5, right?
All my patients have more than2, more than 4, more than 6, all
of that.
So if you're doing a lipidprofile, check your triglyceride
and HDL, and people still don'tknow about it because most of
the labs won't market for youtriglyceride to HDL ratio.
You've got to calculate ityourself, so you do that.
(29:22):
You can get your HbA1c fastingand post-trandial insulin levels
, not sugar levels.
You can get a random bloodsugar, no problem, or fasting
blood sugar.
A lot of people have normalfasting blood sugar and normal
A1C, but very high insulinlevels means that you've become
diabetic.
(29:42):
I mean, there's just a littlebit of time left for you to
start having major symptoms, soyou're basically developing
insulin resistance.
So that's an important test.
I also go for the thyroidprofile, not just the TSH, but
the T3, t4, tsh and theantibodies right, the TPO and
(30:04):
the TG, thyroglobulin andthyroxine peroxidase antibodies.
So those are important becausea lot of people have subclinical
Hashimoto's thyroiditis, whichis an autoimmune disorder.
A lot of people have uhsubclinical hashimoto's
thyroiditis, which is anautoimmune disorder, uh a form
of hypothyroidism.
And a lot of the food itemsthat we eat, uh especially how
you oxalate high fetalphytoestrogens, the ones which
(30:26):
disrupt our hormones uh you know, uh can, can cause this, can
lead to this.
Even you know fluoridetoothpaste and any any other.
Uh, you know, water with a lotof fluoride can actually block
iodine uptake also, so that allof these can lead to this.
So, you know, I get a fullthyroid profile done, iron
profile, b12, homocysteine,cortisol levels, vitamin d all
(30:50):
of these are important.
These are the ones that Iusually focus on, and a little
bit of liver functions.
Yes, to diagnose fatty liver,but again, before the markers
get deranged, I also ask mypatients to get an abdominal MRI
done to check out theirvisceral fat.
And, you know, once I show thatto them, it strikes them.
(31:12):
There's so much fat insidewhich is, you know, choking
their organs and they've allbeen directly associated with
every damn disease that you canthink of.
So, yeah, that's one.
I get some fibro scans of theliver done, if people really
want to get it done, which willgive you an indication of how
much fatty liver do you have,and most of them are
(31:33):
non-alcoholic fatty livers.
Most of the liver transplantsthese days are happening to
non-alcoholic fatty liverdisease, right, and people don't
realize that.
You know, even the radiologists.
Most of them don't even reporta grade one fatty liver,
thinking that's all becomenormal.
It's not.
Grade one will go on to gradetwo and grade three and then
lead to cirrhosis when itbecomes irreversible, that's
(31:54):
when you need the transplants.
When you can stop it at gradeone and reverse it, why not Do
that?
So yeah, so these are some ofthe basic profiles that I get
done.
I don't know if I might havemessed up something, but I have
a whole list that the patientsget done.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
Yeah, a lot of the times I mean, I've went in I try
to go to a checkup once a year,just blood work, whatever, and
I got to ask for a lot of stuff.
You know, I've got to ask for alot of things and they're like,
well, you know you don't needthat, you're too young.
And I'm like, oh, like, can youjust, you know, I would like my
, you know, a one C.
I would like, uh, you know, I,I kind of want to get a CAC
(32:31):
score pretty soon here and justtry to like find these different
things.
Cause I was in a position wherearguably the best shape I've
ever been in, you know,endurance racing, and I was just
kind of lean but I was doing itall carnivore and I felt
amazing, I felt great and I wentin just to get a checkup, blood
work.
Oh, like, your cholesterol ispretty high.
(32:52):
I was like, okay, didn't ask meand I apologize for all the
listeners that probably heardthe story a bunch of times for
me but didn't ask me about mynutrition, didn't ask me about,
you know, my workout routine,didn't ask me about my lifestyle
, just said we're going to getyou on some statins.
I'm like, uh, I'm, I'm okay,I'm good.
They're like oh, okay, checkthis.
(33:13):
Cool, and I could just tellthey were going down the list.
And then they're like do youwant to take your flu shot today
?
It doesn't seem like you tookone.
I'm like I'm okay.
They're like okay, all right,see you later.
That was it.
That was the whole conversationthey had with me.
It was like take statins, no,okay, all right, cross that off.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
All right.
See, I think the curriculumsneed to change.
Also, you can't blame all ofthem, you know, because that's
what they've been taught, youknow, I mean.
But the only thing is, peopledo need to wake up, they need to
question what they're doing,and that's how I teach my
residents.
Also, you know there was thisreally cool website called the
Skeptic's Guide to EmergencyMedicine, long time back.
(33:53):
You know this physician fromCanada, ken Mill.
He had started that off.
And you know this physicianfrom Canada, ken Mill.
He had started that off and youknow, I mean, he would break
down evidences in emergencymedicine, what was coming out
and all that you know, and howto be skeptical about everything
.
And you know he had thistagline always be skeptical of
everything.
Even if you've read it on thiswebsite.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
I think I mean that's how you learn.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
If you're skeptical, you know you inquisitive you.
If you're skeptical, you knowyou inquisitive, you ask more
questions and then if somebodyelse doesn't answer, you find
the answers yourself.
Why not?
Even I tell people, even mypatients, that you know I've
done all the research that Icould and I'm still doing that
and I still follow it.
And it's not just about readingone randomized controlled trial
.
That's not it.
(34:33):
You know you need to read thebiochemistries, the physiologies
, the anthropology, the history,so many things, the metabolism
and all of that and the diseases, and even prospective
observational studies can bereally powerful, because even
case reports and anecdotes canbe very powerful.
(34:53):
Because that's where thequestion starts from why did
this happen to me?
Does it happen to somebody else?
We're looking for it.
You know you'll find something,or you'll find something that
that matches, uh, the wholesubset, right.
So you know, but read, makeyour own inferences.
You know we're putting out the,the information that we believe
should be there for everybody.
(35:14):
You know, because there's been alot of propaganda, there's been
a lot of myths, there's been alot of dogmas regarding
nutrition.
You know, I mean popeyethinking or, you know, spreading
the lies that spinach is thebest food for iron, you know,
and I used to believe that.
I used to obviously believethat.
Now I know that's.
That's the the worstinformation you could give out,
(35:37):
right?
So it's been going on for somany decades.
But I'd still tell my patients,my clients do your own research
, Don't believe me blindly andthen come out with your
influences.
If you want to believe me, thenfollow what I'm asking you.
Give me at least six or sevenmonths.
See how you're doing and thenit becomes a lifestyle.
After that you don't need me.
I'll be there for SOS, you know.
(36:00):
I mean I'll be there, obviously.
But you know, stick with theplan for like six months.
See how you do.
You'll see the differences.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
When you talked about the.
You know be skeptical, right?
You know question things.
I was lucky enough to have DrOvedia.
I'm not sure if you're familiarwith Dr Ovedia.
I'm not sure if you're familiarwith Dr Ovedia.
Yeah, he came on, we werechatting and one of the things
that he we talked about is kindof like quotes or sayings, like
(36:27):
in the medical profession is youknow, half of the things that
you learn in medical school willbe proven wrong by the time you
retire.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
I mean I tell that to myresidents again.
I mean not tell that to myresidents again.
I mean not just for that, butyou know something like the most
typical symptoms that you readin your textbook that this is
the classic textbookpresentation of probably a heart
attack would be the leastcommon symptom you'll see in
(36:54):
real life.
That'll be the rarest symptom.
They'll come with vaguesymptoms and they'll end up with
a heart attack.
You know you end up diagnosingwith a heart attack.
So you know things like that.
You know when you have textbookpresentations they're actually
the rarest.
That's why they're calledtextbook presentations.
They're not the most commonones.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
And when you spoke about the thyroid too, my mother
had her thyroid removed yearsago, years ago and I've just
recently not recently, but overthe few years, just she knows
what I've been doing I've had mybattles with weight and things
like that and I've gotten to thepoint where I feel really great
.
My body composition is great.
(37:33):
I had belferitis in my eyes.
That was like crazy because Iwas vegan for a while.
I've cured all those autoimmunethings.
It's been life-changing andwonderful.
My mom is now just starting tohave some hand issues and she's
kind of carnivore, but notreally.
She's just eating more meat,which is a step in the right
(37:55):
direction.
But she's at the point rightnow where they don't know what's
happening with her hands.
It's been a little bit of anissue.
So and they're talking about,like it could be, this
autoimmune thing.
I'm like my we gotta, I thinkwe gotta go a little strict.
I go, she goes.
Tony, I was just going to tellyou that I really want to go
full blown carnivore.
I'm like, let's try it out.
(38:15):
What's the, what's the worstthat happens if we're in the
same spot as we are today, okay,so be it, but let's give 30, 45
, 90 days and see what happensversus.
You know, she's a fear of likelosing the you know, the ability
to move her hands and like, hey, let's give this a try, because
the doctors are kind of baffledright now but yeah, that's
(38:36):
awesome, man, that's, that's,that's like a rockstar move for
people that listen to you, thatwant to, you know, put their
their big toe in this carnivorepool.
You know, how do you get peopleto start out like is it, hey, we
need to go full-blown carnivoreor what's some advice that
(38:56):
people like?
I'm thinking about this, I'mhearing all these things.
I might have some of theseissues that they're talking
about.
How do you get people to takethe first steps?
Speaker 2 (39:04):
yeah.
So I mean, first of all, I tryand break as many myths as as
possible.
I first answer their ownquestions and, uh, with, with
credible sources, and then I askthem to do the metabolic
profiles and once I have that,you know, that picture is clear
to them.
You know, I let them know.
Okay, find your B12 deficientand you've got high homocysteine
(39:26):
levels.
You're getting somenon-alcoholic fatty liver, your
TSH is a little on the higherside, so you're getting
hypothyroid.
Your cholesterol levels are low, so your cholesterol levels are
low.
Your thyroid is also going toget affected, right?
So you know, your hormones aregoing up and down, your
triglycerides are creeping up,your HDL is going down.
All of that is there, right,and some of them obviously the
people who actually do approachme are omnivores, right, I mean,
(39:49):
they do enjoy the meat, butthey don't eat enough and they
eat a lot of other stuff alongwith it, right?
So it's not that difficult forthem to convert, except, you
know, I mean, obviously, uh,some of them have issues like
autoimmunity and all, and theyusually think it's going to be a
quick fix.
It's going to be, like you know, in a week or 10 days.
They must have heard somestories and you know, I mean,
(40:10):
some people do have that uh kindof a response to carnivore
where, like you know, in 10 days, two weeks, they they get
relieved of most of the symptoms.
But all my patients I tell themthat don't expect the same
thing to happen to everybody.
It all depends on how muchwe've abused our own bodies.
What all have we eaten?
Some of them, if they've beenlike pure vegetarians.
(40:30):
I've had only one or two.
I've had two patients actuallywho've gone full-blown carnivore
and they've never eaten meatsbefore, which is fantastic, and
they've never eaten meats before, you know, which is fantastic,
and they're doing really well.
One of them has rheumatoidarthritis and she hasn't had a
flare-up in like months probably.
The other one was vegetarianbecause of religious reasons and
her husband is an omnivore andthey settled in Goa and she's
(40:56):
like you know, I want to starteating meat.
And they settle and go and thenshe's like you know, I want to
start eating meat.
I was like wow, cause that I'mnot going to say what religion
she has, I don't want anybacklash, but yeah, I mean, you
know they're quite strict aboutvegetarianism, so I'm really
happy and she's doing reallywell.
You know.
I mean she had a lot of IBS andgut issues and anxiety and, you
know, skin issues and all ofthat, and and she knew that she
(41:19):
would get flared up whenever shewould eat foods which are the
ones allowed in her religion,you know, and once she went
full-on carnival.
She's doing so much better, soI'm really happy.
So, yeah, there's some people Iease into it.
Uh, there's some people I'mlike, you know, to go cold
turkey and let's see, I meanthere are some with fibromyalgia
, you know they wake up with alot of pains, they don't sleep
properly, and these are the oneswho actually see really quick
(41:43):
reversal in like three or fourdays.
I've got one who's like 170kilos, that's like what 350 or
400 pounds or something likethat.
I've told him that you know,let's, you know you need to
challenge yourself.
I've taken up the challenge,we'll get you fixed up.
So, yeah, he's lost about fiveor six kilos till now in like
two months, which is okay, notbad, yeah, yeah, and his wife is
(42:04):
helping him, supporting him anddoing it along with him and she
lost like a bunch of 15 kilos,yeah, yeah we in my experience
and and again, there's alwaysthere's gonna be naysayers out
there.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
But just from the people I've talked to and again
me I was former vegetarian for afew years too I see this more,
and this is just my personalperspective on this carnivore
(42:40):
and staying versus.
I have yet to hear again for me, somebody go that was like I'm
carnivore and then didn't youknow, didn't enjoy it, Didn't
feel the results, Didn't youknow?
Just it was didn't work forthem and they're like you know
what?
I'm going to go vegan.
I haven't heard anybody thatI've spoken to that are like,
yeah, I was carnivore and youknow what, Didn't agree with it,
(43:03):
it I went back to vegan or I'mvegan.
Now, off of that, I just seemore vegans, more vegetarians,
even the people in the ketospace, low carb space, trying
carnivore and absolutely lovingit.
So there, there is this shiftand there's this grassroots
movement with information goingout there and just people trying
it yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (43:15):
I mean, uh, it's the same with me.
I've not seen or heard ofanybody who went from carnivore
to vegan.
But yeah, I've interviewed alot of vegan turned carnivores
and they've been on my podcastquite a few of them, you know
there's James, there's Laura, Ihad a few others recently.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
Yeah, so it never works the other way around and
you know, speaking of gettingthe message out there in the
stories, the Desi EM project,right, that's one.
Podcasting is a big overtaking.
You know of just like a lot ofdifferent things and you've had
like kind of the who's who ofcarnivore people on your podcast
, right, how has thatcontributed to either your inner
(43:56):
circle or people in India,Because you have a huge
following?
Speaker 2 (44:01):
Yeah, I like to believe that people have started
following it quite a bit.
So, I mean, I started this offin 2021.
It was basically the Desi EMproject stands for the Desi
Emergency Medicine Project, andDesi is why Indians are called
Desis in the US, right?
So, yeah, that's why it wasDesi EM project, and it was
basically to bust a lot of mythsand dogmas regarding emergency
(44:22):
medicine.
Like you know, when to come tothe ED, when not to come to the
emergency department, what isemergency medicine all about?
You know some clinical stuffregarding some drugs that we use
, like ketamine and stuff likethat.
And then, once I realized thatemergency medicine is so closely
related to metabolic syndromesand metabolic health, I'm trying
(44:43):
to amalgamate the two of them.
Like I mentioned before, exceptfor the trauma patients coming
in unless and until they haveknown comorbid conditions, all
my patients have complicationsof metabolic syndromes and
metabolic dysfunctions.
Or they're coming in withcomplications of the medications
they're on for those samesyndromes and metabolic
dysfunctions, right, or they'recoming in with complications of
the medications they're on forthose same syndromes and
dysfunctions.
(45:03):
And so emergency medicine has abig role to play in trying to
dispel the myths and, you know,let people know what exactly the
facts are.
Why are you sick?
Have that conversation?
Because emergency medicine isknown for patient advocacy.
If a surgeon doesn't want totake a patient to the OR, we're
the ones.
Like you know, god damn it.
(45:24):
This patient requires a surgery.
Right now I'm shipping thepatient to the OR.
That way we're like that andthen we can actually do this.
I tell everybody that I've seenthe matrix.
It's time you guys see thematrix, especially in some of
the conferences that I go to foremergency medicine.
I'm like you know, we guys aredoing a really good job of
saving lives in that moment oftime, like I mentioned before.
(45:45):
But what about that?
Are they actually getting saved?
Are they actually surviving forlong?
We know we might not be therewhen they come back the second
time.
Why should they come back thesecond time?
They shouldn't.
So we're not doing our jobs.
How many doctors can proudlysay that my opity numbers have
gone down because my patientsdon't need me anymore, because
I've cured their syndromes andthey do not require medications?
Speaker 1 (46:08):
no, zero yeah, you might add some years to their
life.
Right in the moment you savethem.
You're going to add some yearsto life.
But we're going to talk aboutquality of years because you
were asking earlier, like whyare they on 15 different
medications?
Like what is your quality oflife Ten years down the road if
you don't change anything?
You're just focused on I'mgoing to take these medications
(46:41):
of that and be able to livequality life and be of service
and of purpose.
You know, versus how manypeople do we see that?
You know can't walk, can't moveum, all of these things and
they can't contribute anymore tosociety because of health
issues.
Speaker 2 (46:50):
Yeah, absolutely so.
That's what my my podcast isall about.
I'm going to start off awebsite soon it's under
construction, uh, uh which willhave links to the podcast and,
you know, some articles andstuff, and call the contact
address or an email If peoplewant to get in touch and get a
(47:12):
carnival consultant.
That's all of that's going tobe on the website soon, so let's
hope that starts off.
Speaker 1 (47:17):
I mentioned, you had the who's who and I like to
anybody that's podcasting, Ialways ask this question of like
, what's one episode or guestthat you had on?
That was like a life-changingmoment.
I've had a few where I've, likeyou know, asked questions and I
got like these aha, you canname one or a few that have been
on your podcast.
Speaker 2 (47:35):
That's like wow, oh yeah yeah, I had quite a few wow
ones, you know.
So, anthony chafee, I've hadhim twice.
Both of them were brilliant.
Uh, sally norton, you know theoxalate queen.
Sean baker, the king ofcarnival, you know, uh, he was
fantastic.
And I had some really awesome.
Uh, you know nuggets from seanamistle Fat he's so full of
(48:00):
energy and he's a Whistle Fatexpert.
Zoe Harcombe, she wasabsolutely brilliant.
Gary Fetke, from Australia Imean, he was sued for a long
time and he came out of that.
Dr Robert Kills, lisa Wiedemannthese guys were amazing.
I mean OBGYN and he's doingsuch a brilliant job.
Lisa Wiedemann, these guys wereamazing.
I mean you know OBGYN and he'sdoing such a brilliant job.
(48:21):
And Lisa Wiedemann is anophthalmologist who's also a
carnivore.
She's been a long-termcarnivore for like 15 years.
And two really dynamic ones Ilove is Professor Bart Kay.
He's like this powerhouse ofknowledge.
You know, he's been a professorfor like 20 years and he's
taught exercise, physiology,anatomy, cardiovascular
(48:44):
pathologies and all of that.
He's published a lot.
And Eddie Gokey he's a young,dynamic guy.
He's reversing Ehlers-DanlosSyndrome through Carnival and
he's such a sharp mind I meanthe way he speaks.
He's already authored a book.
Basically, he was doing a lotof research into biochemistry
(49:07):
and metabolism and he wrotepapers and when he looked at it
he was like you know, this is alot of material and he compiled
it all into a book.
It's called Contraindicatedfantastic.
So, yeah, I mean I've had, Imean it's been.
So I learned a lot of therandall cycle from eddie.
I mean he's like 20 yearsyounger to me probably and he
and he taught that to me and itwas just fantastic.
(49:28):
So, uh, a lot of uh, brightminds, a lot of others who've,
you know, who've been through alot of disease through their
veganism or vegetarianism.
Mimi morgan, she was one who was71 years old.
Reversing 14 syndromes at 71years of age, including
parkinson's syndrome, issomething that which is
(49:51):
mind-blowing, absolutelymind-blowing.
Yeah, I, she had Dupuytren'scontracture, rheumatoid
arthritis, parkinson's, she hada stroke, she had MRSA.
Her WBC counts had fallen downto almost zero, you know,
because of all the antibioticsand the infections that she had
had A lot of things, you know.
And then she, at the age of 67,she started going carnival 67.
(50:14):
And by 71, she was off allmedications.
I never seen anybody take thedoses of medications that she
had for parkinson's that highdollar, that higher dose and all
came off, which is amazing.
And she walks out, she liftsweight.
Somebody who suffered fromparkinson's lifts weights at the
age of 71.
Speaker 1 (50:31):
Imagine that, yeah I'm a big, I'm big advocate of
strength training.
I think, again, it doesn't haveto be oh, we got to put on 400
pounds or 200 kilos on the bar,but I think any type of
resistance training and buildingmuscle is one of the best
things you can do, in tandemwith a good nutrition background
(50:53):
and making sure that you'rereally cutting the junk.
And there's going to be peoplethat don't agree with carnivore.
There's going to be people thatlove carnivore.
I think, at the end of the day,we need to get back to eating
real food, right Stuff that'spackaged, ultra processed,
highly palatable.
It's just not good for us and Ithink you know a lot of
(51:13):
countries are now.
Either they have bans orwhatever.
The States is starting, china,the United States is making a
little bit of shift.
It's slow, but I think they'rejust looking at like, wow, kids
are sick, middle-aged people aresick, elderly are sick.
It's like there has to be a wehave to change.
We have to change and nutritionis something to look at.
(51:36):
Lifestyle is a big piece aswell, but I just think
everything you're doing isawesome, and I told you as well,
like I love talking to doctorsbecause I can speak till I'm
blue in the face, but you knowjust the amount of research
you've done and you know reallyhow to go into those white
papers too.
Where I'm not, you know I've.
I did in school, but I'm not asvast as some of you guys.
(51:58):
Like you guys are just diggingto the white papers and really
pull out the information intandem of speaking to people and
getting stories.
I love everything you're doing.
Speaker 2 (52:07):
Yeah, even about you know evidences and papers and
all.
It's not like everybody canread papers, but you know I've
had the experience.
I've published 42 papers, be itfrom case to post to case
series, to randomized controlstudies, prospective studies,
retrospective studies.
So I know how to go throughresearch.
You know I can make my owninferences right.
So you know, for those whothink that I don't know how to
(52:29):
read, you know I'll let you knowthat I do know how to read
because I've published myself.
And once you start publishingit's not that you know I go
around publishing anything.
Yes, I've had some case reportswhich got published, which I
wasn't expecting to getpublished.
Yeah, that was earlier on in mycareer.
But you know I've published alot of research.
I published a lot of caseseries, prospective observation,
(52:50):
observational studies, and onceyou're publishing, you know you
actually read a lot of otherpapers.
Know, and just my training, youknow emergency medicine is the
most evidence-based uh branch ofmedicine.
You know we use a lot ofevidence space uh for that.
So you know we know how to getinto that.
But again, for nutrition,there's no good evidence which
(53:12):
can prove causation and causeand effect for anything it can.
Right, it's always got to be anassociation and a correlation.
And then you correlate thatwith the biochemistry, the
physiology and the metabolismsand metabolic functions and all
the enzymatic processes andthink, okay, fine, this is
associated with this.
(53:32):
This is what these things.
You know this is how it goesthrough in your body, so this
might be causing this.
You know that's how you're.
This is how it goes through inyour body, so this might be
causing this.
You know that's how you'resupposed to work it around.
It's impossible to do arandomized control study which
is well controlled to proveanimal versus plant causing this
or that.
Speaker 1 (53:50):
It's not possible yeah, and you spoke about um.
You know the website's going tobe taken off, things like that.
What's in the future for youAny big engagements or other
projects that are happening foryou?
Speaker 2 (54:04):
Yeah, I mean I'm working on my carnival consults.
People do get in touch with meon my Instagram for that.
Obviously, through my website,they'll get more information.
That's something in thepipeline.
I'm planning to do somethinglike a retreat, a carnival
retreat, in India, because I'mpretty sure that's something in
the pipeline.
I'm planning to do somethinglike a retreat, a carnival
retreat, in India, because I'mpretty sure that's not that's
never been done here Stillworking out the logistics and
(54:26):
the funding for that, how it'sgoing to work out.
So yeah, let's see.
I mean I have a few friendswho've actually, you know,
chipped in with their graymatters, with ideas and stuff.
But yeah, let's see how thatworks.
So I'm taking it slow.
Obviously, I'm trying to raiseas much awareness as possible
(54:46):
through my social media, even onLinkedIn.
So I put a lot of my podcastson LinkedIn because there's a
whole professional network overthere.
So a lot of doctors areactually going through what I'm
talking about, or what my guestsare talking about, and I'm
hoping that, you know it sparksa conversation somewhere.
You know, because you know, asa doctor, I can't touch 1.4
(55:10):
billion people in India.
Right, you need many touchpoints and that's required.
So I mean, these are some ofthe plans that I have.
Let's see how it works out.
Speaker 1 (55:15):
I think that's people are are now.
They're going for experiencesand talking to doctors too.
I don't I have had melissa beon.
She did like this carnivoreconversations, uh whole thing in
australia.
As we're speaking right now, Iknow it's going to air after the
fact everybody's at meat stockright now.
Um, I, I wanted to go.
(55:35):
I just can't go this weekend,but I said next year that I'm
going to go.
But I mean, a retreat in Indiawould be super cool.
That'd be awesome.
Well, ankur, thank you so much.
I appreciate you taking thetime and I'm glad we finally got
this locked down.
What is a spot that you can beconnected with, with people if
they want to reach out?
Speaker 2 (55:56):
Thanks so much for having me, tony.
Tony man, it was an absoluteblast that I had.
It was really awesome talkingto you and if people want to
connect with me, I'm most activeon my instagram, uh, where I am
the carnivoreep emergencyphysician, so the carnivoreep,
you can dm me or follow me there.
I mean mean I'll help you out.
(56:16):
I have my carnival consults.
Through that, people get intouch with me and hopefully the
website comes up soon.
It's going to be thetecemprojectcom, so once it's
live, it's going to be on myInstagram and my other socials.
I am on X, but not very active.
Linkedin, you can find me as DrAnkur Verma here, and Facebook
(56:38):
here.
Speaker 1 (56:39):
I'll put that all in the show notes.
We'll get those links in thereand once again, thanks for
coming on and thanks foreverybody listening to another
episode of the PrimalFoundations podcast.
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