March 11, 2025 • 43 mins
In this episode of Printing's Alive, Deborah Corn and Kelly Mallozzi discuss the transformative journey of Girls Who Print and the advantages of its nonprofit status. The conversation highlights the importance of mentorship in addressing the workforce crisis and tackling unconscious and gender biases in the printing industry. They share future plans to enhance inclusivity and the role of the industry in attracting talent, including the relationship with FESPA. The episode explores strategies for global expansion, member engagement, and challenging industry norms. Deborah and Kelly emphasize the value of vocational training, the need for positive work environments, and the celebration of pride and community within the print industry.
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(00:09):
Hey.
Welcome back to another podcast, PrintingsAlive.
The podcast where we talk everything printglobal, and I mean anything from paper, cement,
glasses, electronics.
I don't care.
Anyways, we're moving on.
Today, we have a really special group.
We have Girls Who Print.
Welcome, ladies.
Hello, Warren.
(00:30):
Hello.
Hello.
And, the reason we have Girls Who Print ontoday is I thought would be a great idea to
introduce the group because the group has justwent through a change.
They've gone from, I don't know what they were,an association of business or something, to a
nonprofit.
The nonprofit just makes it more, puts it outthere, makes it more reachable for everybody,
(00:54):
and then at the same time, Girls Who Print cannow define and tell you exactly what they're
doing because they have a mandate, they have amission, they have a board, they have,
everything else that a nonprofit has.
So, welcome, Deborah.
Welcome, Kelly.
Thank you so much, Warren, for having us.
Really appreciate it.
Thanks, Warren.
Pleasure's all mine.
So, which one of you wants to go first,Deborah?
(01:17):
And, tell us a little bit about Girls Who Printand it going nonprofit.
Sure.
Thanks so much.
Prior to this year, Girls Who Print is andremains the largest network of women in the
printing industry with more than 11,500,participants.
(01:37):
And it was imperative for us to to your mostexcellent point that, becoming a nonprofit
would enable us to really have missions thatare transparent, that are things that people,
and and companies can get behind.
And, also, of course, being a nonprofit meansif you're in The United States, these are
(02:02):
considered charitable donations.
So whether you're you, are a member or youwanna sponsor, if you're if you pay through
United States, it is considered a charitabledonation, which was actually important to a lot
of companies out there, in the sense that theyhad a justification for supporting the the the
(02:22):
movement, and it was more difficult when themoney was going into the print media center
bank account because that was, Girls Who Printwas under the, Printiverse umbrella.
So now with it pulled out, it is a separateentity.
There is a board, as you said.
There is an advisory board.
(02:44):
There's three directors.
I am, you know, bound by the bylaws, and theway we operate and function.
And it has really, elevated our mission in thesense that it is more formalized, and that
turned into us because we needed funding in adifferent way.
(03:07):
We developed a comprehensive membership programand platform to give people a reason to join
us.
Now I wanna say that whether or not you becomea member of Girls Who Print, I mean, we we hope
you do because that helps us fund everythingthat we do.
However and and there's benefits for forjoining, of course.
(03:28):
But Kelly and I will never stop doing thingsout in the open.
There is going to be everything we do of thebig stuff is always out in the open, and the
members will have a little more access with Askthe Experts and some skill building, workshops
and, white papers and research that normallypeople would not have access to, and that's
(03:55):
through the generosity of our sponsors.
But at the heart of all of it is our mentorshipprogram, and Kelly, is the newly minted vice
president and program director of Girls WhoPrint.
So if you don't mind, I'll pass it off to herto explain, all about the programs and
especially our vibrant and successful mentoringprogram.
(04:19):
Well, I have a question first, though.
You said there's 11,000 people that are part ofGirls Who Print.
Do we know how many women there are in theprinting industry?
No.
They can't help.
That women women globally, I believe the Ibelieve globally the stat is 32% of the entire
(04:41):
global industry is comprised of women in nomatter what their no matter what their role is.
Okay.
K.
That's good.
Good.
So the
third leadership roles are are less than that.
Definitely.
And, you know, we see we see mentorship as acrucial a crucial cornerstone of what we're
offering largely, because mentorship is aboutlived experience, and it's about guidance, and
(05:05):
it's about lifting each other up.
Right?
And I don't know of any mentoring relationshipwhere the mentor gets just as much as the
mentee does.
They're incredibly important relationships.
Many of the matches that we've made have lastedfive, six, seven years now.
I I talked to one mentor who actually flew tomeet her mentee in person.
(05:26):
People have helped people navigate getting jobinterviews.
It's tactical work that's happening, becauseyou're not gonna find too many printing
companies in The United States or maybeanywhere that have formalized mentoring
programs.
There may there may be some.
But you're not gonna you're sorry.
You're not gonna just everyone's aware.
You're not gonna find a lot of that in a lot ofindustries.
(05:48):
That's right.
Right.
That's not true.
Because we single ourselves out all the time.
It's a it's an issue everywhere.
It really it really is.
That's so that's such a good point.
But we also know, and I'm sure this is notunique to the printing industry either, but we
have a massive workforce crisis happening inthis country.
I don't know of any printer.
(06:09):
I don't know of any printer.
Again, I don't wanna always center this aroundThe United States, but in our experience,
everybody is stare staring down the barrel ofmassive retirements.
Right?
And so we see girls who print being a crucialelement to formalizing and forming
relationships with the educators and thestudents in this country and the students
(06:32):
everywhere.
There's some great colleges in Canada thatwe're working with too, because we need to show
the students that they have a vibrant, viablefuture in the industry, that it is that it is a
great industry, that it's a very technologicalindustry, that it is a crucial part of the
marketing supply chain.
(06:52):
Right?
And so every conversation I have, because Ihave many, many conversations every day with
potential mentors and potential mentees andeducators, that this is a this is a very kind
of intertwined kind of experience right now.
And without Girls Who Print, I don't know howwomen are gonna get to the role of of realizing
(07:15):
50% of the leadership positions in this countrybecause we are nowhere near it.
We make up 50% of the workforce, but we do notmake up 50% of the leadership.
So this is a work of generations.
Right?
But we've been doing it very consistently forgoing into my goodness.
It's almost twenty years, you know, and it'sit's just incredibly important.
(07:36):
And everybody has a voice here.
Warren, you've been incredibly supportive.
And one of the reasons that we wanna talk toyou about this is to hear your viewpoint on on
a man's role in helping to empower and lift upwomen.
I mean, we all have a role to play.
Right?
Yeah.
So, when you mentioned, you know, 50% of theworkforce, I don't wanna look I don't wanna
(08:00):
lose sight of every company should want thebest person regardless of their gender in that
position.
Like, because you need the best skills ifyou're gonna go ahead, but you should be
promoting and pushing everyone and not haveanyone being held back.
If I talk about print, the women I knew workingin print were always just better with details
(08:23):
and more careful and watch it.
No.
Like, those are important things.
Get off the press.
You know?
Who wants paper cuts anyways?
But get off the press and you get it to finishand you get into quality control, you get into,
whatever it is.
There was a little bit more attention todetail.
I noticed, my company, my head shipping person,you're gonna laugh, it used to be my nanny.
(08:45):
When we didn't when when when kids got to thepoint we didn't need somebody in the house,
offered her a job at my place, and, she came inand just doing some bindery and helping.
And the next thing you know, she's running theshipping department.
How good was that?
I wanna say something now that I think is areal teachable moment if it's,
(09:09):
Go over it.
Okay.
So what you just communicated is actuallyunconscious bias in in in a lot of ways.
And what I would like to say to everybodylistening is when you need a press operator
Right.
Don't just think that a guy would be better,suited for it because you believe a woman is
(09:34):
better suited for the management side of thingsor however you wanna.
I'm not suggesting you said that.
I mean, but it is it is this is this is thething.
We've been socialized to to think this, andit's the first way we think it of things, of of
what a traditional what a man's role in acompany is, what a woman's role in a company
(09:59):
is, what a woman's role, in a in in a familyis, what a man's role in a family is.
I'm just saying that we we grow up that way.
It doesn't make it wrong that you think thisway, but what I'm suggesting is that when
you're looking for the best person for the job,which we agree is the way to do it, Don't
(10:22):
discount people So because of they might be awoman running a press.
You know, like, let's
say, let me let me re
Go ahead, please.
Sorry.
Let me just rephrase that because I get whatyou're saying.
In my case, when I made reference to the pressperson, I don't know many women at all who are
ready to lift 56 inch press sheets every dayall day.
(10:43):
I'm not saying there aren't some.
Correct.
But there are certain things.
What I was gonna say to you.
Like, if you wanna work at FedEx or UPS is arequirement that you have to lift be able to
lift lift a certain amount
of tape.
And if you
do that, and if you want to do that, you shouldbe considered if you're the best person for the
(11:03):
position.
I I don't believe we are having an argument ordebate here at all.
Oh, not yet.
Wrong for saying that.
I just wanted to point out that it's statementslike that that are just accepted, and and we
move on from it because we're used to theseconversations.
So so just and we'll get off the topic becausewherever we'll go.
(11:26):
But, you know, the fact that I and this isanother little issue.
The fact that I said it the way that I did withno meaning that you were referencing when you
bring up that meaning, it's very possible oh,me.
I'm good, but the hair on the back of my neckcould go up because I sense that I feel that
there's a a thing coming Correct.
When there isn't.
So we all have to be careful
(11:48):
Yes.
Of what we say and how we say it.
Right.
And I really appreciate that you said that,which is why I was very careful before I
started before I brought it up.
But I couldn't let the moment go by becausethen I would be agreeing with what you were
saying.
Yeah.
No.
No.
That's cool.
And by the way, it's not that I don't.
There is something to the hunter gatherer thingabout, the the traits of human beings.
(12:12):
And I do agree that if you want you know, ifyou're looking for the person in your company
to just, here's this thing, go get it, you'reprobably better off sending a gentleman to do
that.
If you want someone to look at everything, makesense of it, come up with a strategic plan for
the company to win Right.
That's that's a Well, listen.
If there's if there's a strong woman who that'swhat she wants to do, she could be in the mix
(12:37):
of fighting for the job.
Of course.
I'm I'm just thinking in terms of, you know,just simple basic things because it is what it
is in some areas of strength.
Right?
And whatnot.
But what you just illustrated to everybody outthere is that you were able to put those hairs
on the back of your neck down for a moment andtake a breath and listen to what was
(13:02):
communicated, and then you can make yourassessments about if you wanna take that on or
not.
But it it was it was really great teachingmoment for everybody out there because you
didn't take it.
You didn't even though you immediately feltdefensive, you didn't act on it, and you
allowed for the space just to have theconversation.
(13:26):
It's not that you're wrong and I'm right.
There's there's nothing in there.
The at the end, the result should be the best,to your point, the best person for the for the
position.
It's just the unconscious bias that is notintentional in most cases only has men
(13:46):
interviewing for certain jobs and would welcomewomen to interview for certain jobs.
Yeah.
And that that'll be, you know, that'll be overtime.
Listen, I had I had somebody the other day, notin print, and it's kinda just funny, but I have
a I'm chatting with a friend who's workingsomewhere and she's killing it.
Like, I mean, she's killing it.
And there's other salespeople there, a couplegentlemen and like the top management they ride
(14:09):
her.
And and she called and said what do I do?
And I said well you just you know, I said justbe straight put it on the line but don't stand
down.
And I and I and I and I said, doing what you'redoing.
I said, I'm sure if you were more manly, theywouldn't give you the same thing, you know.
And and so for me, you know, first of all, whenyou guys allowed men and I went and joined, I
(14:31):
thought it was the right thing to do for thesimple reason of this.
And and everything in my first of all, let mejust back up.
I make jokes all the time.
I make man jokes.
I make female jokes.
I'm a joker, and, the times we live in, I don'treally give a shit.
I'm back in the days of Lenny Bruce.
And when it really was humor, George Carlin,Richard Pryor, and whatever.
(14:51):
Right?
And that's what it is.
To me, it's only humor.
So anyone who says anything to me after aboutit is not interested.
But I was happy to join because I'm alwayshappy to know and I'm happy to learn.
But a a changing point in the man woman thingcame for me when I had a daughter because
(15:11):
everybody I talked to and and what I said tothe person yesterday was because I don't wanna
tell everybody to do what to do and, you know,and I suggested to them that when they're
talking with their other counterparts, I saidto I said ask one of them, how he would react
if his daughter came home and told him the samestory where she's killing it the best in the
(15:32):
company and all they keep doing is wanna knowwhy she came in late.
And no one ever asked me why I'm late.
Right?
I think it's really important that we think ofthis in terms of the amount of time it's gonna
take.
Right?
We've done some we've done a lot of researchand seen that we we you can predict that women
(15:53):
will not reach career trajectory parity until2050 or something like this.
Right?
And the three of us, we can all agree are genx.
Right?
So, Deborah, you brought up some really awesomepoints about the fact that from the moment we
were born, we were taught certain things aboutwhat it was to be a female just like Warren was
taught things about, you know, what it was tobe a a boy and a man in the world.
(16:15):
And I think what I celebrate is I have two gengen z's and two gen alphas in my house.
We don't utter the phrase man up.
Right?
We don't we don't utter the phrase you throwlike a girl.
Right?
So we know that younger generations are beingraised with a different lens, a different
viewpoint in a different lived experience.
(16:35):
And so for those of us, for those of youwatching this who are running companies and
thinking about this and all going, we got toget more Gen Z in here now.
It is to shore up our behaviors and how wetreat people, our hiring practices, our
onboarding practices, our training, everythingnot to accommodate them, but to welcome them.
(17:01):
Right?
And to say that we are going to be better asorganizations when we have young people, we're
gonna be better as organizations when we havemultiple viewpoints, multiple voices, multiple
brains.
Right?
We just did a whole we just did a whole podcastearlier today about neurodivergence.
And and this is the work of girls who print isvisibility and its workforce development, and
(17:27):
it is leading by example to to show that toyour point, Warren, about your friend, women
are killing it at work women.
We know that there are female CEOs, there arefemales heading organizations.
There are women in tremendous positions ofpower in this country.
And for us, it's to amplify those voices andmultiply that.
(17:48):
Right?
That's that's what we're trying
to do.
I know a lot of guys who wanna be stay at homedads.
Right?
And we just we've we've been we've beendiscriminated against.
We've been put in a place where
With paternity leave too.
%.
Right?
We fight for your right for for that as aswell.
Yeah.
That's such a
Never mind never mind that.
(18:08):
Yeah.
I you know, I want the partner to go out and doeverything.
Yeah.
Open the door.
You know, I'll make dinner.
No.
I'm just kidding with some of that stuff.
But but not really.
Yeah.
I actually, am friends with a a father of twochildren, and he is a single dad.
And he he has to make the same accommodationsthat mostly you hear women having to make at
(18:29):
work about travel schedules and work schedulesand when they can be online and when they can't
be online.
And it was, it was actually eye opening for mebecause I thought, oh, that he probably doesn't
have any of the of the obstacles, and they werethe exact same obstacles.
So somehow that made me, you know, think thatwe have more people to bring to the table.
(18:55):
And certainly, at this point, you know,regarding men, coming to girls who print, there
will always be a few things that will be womenonly.
There'll be a couple of forms that are womenonly, and there may be a couple of
There should be.
And there will also be exclusive content forour gentlemen allies and exclusive forms for
(19:19):
our gentlemen allies.
So everybody has what what has been deemed asafe space, which just means you whatever the
the group will accept, you're allowed to, youknow, communicate with each other within the
boundaries of that that group's decorum.
Right?
But to not we must move forward together,especially since, you know, some of these
(19:44):
management styles that have been moreoppressive to everybody, I I mean, everybody,
go out the door when the boomers and the genx's are are out.
The millennials are more open to, to, havingmore people at the table because that that's
the way that they grew up or they saw what theGen Xers did, and they were like, we don't want
(20:06):
any part of that.
So I'm a little hopeful that we are at a cuspof things changing as more of the millennials I
don't know.
That should be interesting to to see.
What what do you
think about that?
I don't I don't even like the fact thateverybody's labeled with something because
they're walking in with predetermined if thatif that person walking in is not a Gen Zer and
(20:30):
we're calling them Gen Z'ers, it's no differentthan calling anybody else another name because
they're offended and they're already feelingnot comfortable because they've been labeled.
A label's a label.
Good, bad, I'm just saying.
Right?
But I think we're at a good time now, you know,women in print and just changing print in
general even for younger people because we arein such need of people coming in that, you
(20:55):
know, I joke that the front of a press now isnot the old days.
The front of the press looks like a video game.
Right?
Your pressman, you don't really get that dirtybecause more of the new presses have the
canisters for the ink and not scooping.
Press what I say?
Pressman Men.
Whatever.
Press person.
Call him whatever.
(21:15):
And and by the way, that stuff is just becauseit's been so long.
But when I look at my son and how where hedoes, he doesn't say he what he's he's pretty
clear on stuff.
And when I say certain things, he calls me outon it just because he grew up not talking that
way.
People have to forget some of the older people.
(21:35):
It's not about meaning it.
It's just about, the flow of words and the waythat it's all listen, my father at the office
used to say, hey.
Hello dear to the receptionist.
Yeah.
Well, that's what's going on.
One day she was one day she's okay.
The next day she's ready to sue.
The guy's 80 years old.
What do you think he was doing?
Right?
Like, it's been like that for years.
(21:56):
Anyways, my point is now is a good time foreverybody and for companies to embrace, just
doing it right, men and women, because we needyounger people.
So it doesn't matter what specific job it is,we have to dress it up, we have to make it
look, you know, engaging, encouraging,educational.
(22:19):
The folders today, you're not folding andputting pieces of paper under to get your
thickness of the fold.
You're pushing a button with 300 presets forpaper and design and template.
So anybody could run or more people can run,folders if you're mechanically inclined because
it still takes something.
Right?
And that's, like, for every job.
(22:40):
So we should be promoting agree.
Yeah.
We should be promoting to everybody now, in theindustry.
And I think the industry itself, like, leaveout women for a moment.
The industry itself has issues, and it's evengot issues because it can attract younger men.
Correct.
Right?
So we're making so we're making it twice ashard.
(23:02):
So we should all just come together to attractpeople.
Yes.
And we know there are people doing this reallywell.
Right?
So we know we know two things.
We know there are dozens, if not hundreds, ifnot thousands of young people getting ready to
graduate with print management degrees, graphicarts degrees, business degrees.
Right?
(23:22):
Let's not put too much tunnel vision on this.
We should be talking to kids in businessschools.
Right?
People that are interested in marketing, thosekinds of things.
So we know that's a truth.
We also know that a very, very small percentageof companies have robust specific internship
programs, but it's a minuscule.
It's a tiny little number.
(23:42):
So the disconnect between these kids coming outand the people that are ready to receive them,
again, that's where we see girls who print inother organizations, you know, playing a very
crucial role in making those connections.
The associations are doing a good job of this.
But, yes, we all the industry, Warren, you'reabsolutely right.
The industry has a responsibility here, and wedon't we don't really have, like, a governing
(24:08):
body of our industry in this country.
I don't know.
I mean, I think that they must be doing it inother countries because I just saw a post from
a UK company that has
a very robust apprenticeship program.
The the the Europeans do they love they do havetheir apprenticeships.
That but you just hit upon something really,really important, which is why I think that
(24:31):
Girls Who Print is such an importantorganization because we are independent.
The other organizations are all part ofsomething else.
They're an offshoot of of a specific segment ofthe industry, or they are run by organizations
that have vested interest in in, you know,helping their their own membership, and there's
(24:52):
nothing wrong with those things.
But the only neutral thing out there isactually Girls Who Print, and we we will direct
people to the correct organization if they'relooking for specific help in wide format or
specific help in flexography.
You know, they're or they're in Australia.
There's a robust women's organization there.
(25:13):
So we we have to, you know, be citizens of theworld and which is one of the reasons why, you
know, the regional organizations of Girls WhoPrint are so important.
And, we're actually going to I'm gonna give youan exclusive on your podcast, Warren.
Yay.
We are, finalizing a very solid relationshipwith the FESPA Federation, to work with them
(25:41):
and support all the women in, around the worldthat participate at FESPA events and with the
individual organizations within the regions andthe companies.
And, we are we will be launching our our GirlsWho Print Europe at, the upcoming, global FESPA
coming up.
(26:01):
We're also gonna have events in Hunkler.
So the international community is also comingto the table.
Girls who print has always been global, but Ithey are stepping up in in more ways than I can
even tell you now.
There's a girls who print Japan that runsindependently because none of us speak
Japanese, unfortunately.
(26:22):
And, we did we actually got up and we did apresentation at 01:00 in the morning, for for
they had a girls who print event.
And they we we understand that as Americans, wehave a we have a, a limited view of the world
and and how things work individual.
(26:43):
I know.
I know.
As a Canadian, I just wanna tell you that Iagree with you.
Yes.
We understand that, fully.
And, so we're not trying to go into Italy orJapan and say, this is the way you need to do
things.
We're here to say, how can we help you supportyour local community?
We always will take care of the the biggestthings, the Gozo Buen Day, the International
(27:07):
Women's Conference.
Not that they couldn't have their own.
They could if they wanted to.
But what I'm saying is that we all have to dothis together globally in the industry.
And, you know, welcoming students and and menis definitely part of why we believe that,
(27:28):
there are many options out there to jointhings, but I would just,
you
know, implore people to just take a look andsee if it's something, you know, that you or
your peers or your colleagues or yourconnections benefit from and and, you know,
support programs that actually don't havevested interests in them.
(27:51):
So I'm gonna make a a suggestion for whoever'slistening.
If you're a print owner, and I don't care ifyou're a man or a woman, you should join, Girls
Who Print.
You should get the logo, and it should sayproud member on your website.
For the simple and I'm by the way, I am notspeaking because I am so righteous in buying
(28:12):
everything.
This is strictly from a hiring position, right,marketing position.
You should have the logo on the website.
If there are other women that are lookingaround and they see that, that will give you a
jump up over the next person.
Right?
And then, of course, you have to live by whatyou say, which is also another good thing.
If you have a wife or a daughter, I'm sure shecould help you.
(28:35):
But I think the more people that sign on andshow it, right, and whether they come to every
meeting or not or they should have well,there's women in the company.
If you're gonna if you're an owner and you'regonna join for the logo to have on the website,
that's great.
Make sure that you take one or two in from thecompany and tie them in so they represent you
there.
Right?
(28:55):
And I think that that is that is a first startto everybody and jumping on.
And by the way, to the to the owners out there,you know what?
I don't know what the cost is for a company$2.03, $4.05, $6.07, 800, a thousand dollars.
Don't tell me you can't afford it.
You make bigger mistakes and you may and youspend stupid money.
(29:16):
So spend a few hundred dollars, spend whateverit is, and just make the effort to show that
you care.
Even if you don't, make the effort to show youcare for the people that work for your company
first.
Yeah.
It's so
telling it straight.
It and it is straight, and I appreciate itbecause coming from you, I mean, anybody who
listens to you knows you're not saying thingsjust to say them.
(29:39):
Like, I don't say things just to say them.
Then there's you know?
So I really appreciate and respect what whathow you're communicating this for to everybody,
and I really do thank you because we needpeople like you to help us because it as in our
little exchange that we had before, if it it itcould go in any different direction.
(30:05):
And we don't wanna become lecturing people, andwe're not the we're not the the word police.
Made a joke there, but I didn't.
I held back.
I bit my tongue.
I'm just saying we're not the word police.
We're not we're not trying to focus on words.
All we're trying to say is that the only word Iwanna focus on is unconscious.
(30:26):
We understand that in most cases, myselfincluded, are making decisions based upon my
life experience.
Whether it's true or not, I formulated someopinion about it.
And it's only when I'm challenged on why do youthink that way that I think back and I don't
(30:48):
know.
You know?
And I'll give you an example for printing.
When I was working in advertising agencies, Ihad a you're gonna you're not gonna be happy
when I say this.
I had printers that I work with on, let's say,commercial print stuff, and then I had a wide
format printer that I work with on wide format.
Did I ever ask my commercial printers if theyhad wide format equipment or my wide format
(31:13):
printer if they had commercial equipment?
No.
Because we didn't think that way back then.
I'm getting the wide format from the wideformat and the commercial from the commercial,
and that's
the way it is.
That way.
People weren't doing it all.
Exactly.
So that's the way I thought it was untilsomeone said, you know, we can do it all.
And I was like, what?
What do you mean?
(31:35):
You could do it all.
Yes.
We started investing in wide format equipment.
Now and what did I do?
I wanted to be where I could do the most thingsin one place with one PO to rule them all.
Because you're not running around.
Exactly.
And that's the way we think about girls whoprint.
Whether you're a paid member or a free member,whether you're a sponsor or just somebody who's
(31:58):
benefiting from our programming, we still havethe good of the industry as our the mission
want critical is make the industry moreattractive to everybody where whether it's
students or people in your community lookingfor work or I I work with a, I'm on the
(32:19):
advisory board for something called five keysthat helps people who were in jail come come
out and and get jobs, and skills.
And, there's one of the people on the board hadgotten trouble, got into trouble when he was
younger, And now, he learned skills through thefive keys.
(32:40):
And now not only does he own his ownconstruction company, but he's hiring the the
people from the program.
And they have a print program there, and theyhave, other other things that are are, let's
say, you know, manuals manual skills that youcan learn.
You can learn how to print on a printing press.
You can learn how to use the cutting machineand things like that.
(33:03):
So and you can learn how to be a prepressperson because, some of some of the, people in
those these programs also work behindcomputers.
So there is a wealth of people to work in theprinting industry if we sort of let go some of
these preconceived notions, including anycollege degree.
(33:26):
Not everybody has access to college.
I don't care who you are.
Not at any
dropped out of college.
I couldn't sit there.
I was going, you know And
that's that's another thing.
We were talking about we did a podcast thismorning with Sarah Hannesen.
She's a product productivity coach, and we weretalking about neurodiversity and that it's
something that has to be recognized.
(33:46):
If you have a great employee and they'refidgeting or something, they're not the weird
guy, you know, like, may you know?
I'm just I'm just How many people
how many people ask their doctor, whatpercentage they graduated when they got their
degree?
None.
Right?
(34:06):
None.
Some some of those doctors have to finish atthe bottom of the class.
Right.
I'm just I just It just You know, so you don'tneed to know everything all the time.
It doesn't mean a good person with a goodlearning is good.
By the way, that's why that's why at mycompany, we used to do all these psychological
(34:29):
tests for certain positions, a, to make sure wehad the right person and, you know, b, to make
sure we didn't have we didn't bring in thewrong person.
You bring in the wrong person, everybodyalready knows it.
There's no secrets.
Yeah.
But listen.
Our industry is not known for being, so muchforward thinking as a norm that people spend
(34:51):
money in certain areas.
Like, people say to me, why would you spend$1,800 on a test?
Well, you have a guy come in for twelve weeks,it's $12.13 grand.
What's another 1,800 to find out if he's theright guy or not?
Plus whatever he sees or she sees, all around.
Right?
You gotta you gotta make smart decisions.
Smart decisions are smart decisions.
(35:13):
Yeah.
And that might be removing a college degree asa requirement to fill out an application.
Could be that simple.
You could open up the doors to a million peoplewho'd be fantastic.
You know, I I know you're you're in inMontreal, so I and French is the official
(35:33):
language there.
Right?
So it's not?
I thought French is you know?
I'm sure you speak French.
I don't talk politics.
I don't think I'm talking politics.
Am I talking to your
politics.
Okay.
My apologies.
We just know that when you
look at my show, the
the French Canadian
be a French version of this podcast.
Okay.
But, I'm I'm assuming that if there's a printshop looking for workers that there's ads in
(35:59):
French and there's ads in English, or there hasto be both.
Right?
Well, okay.
We're not gonna go into it, but they're Frenchonly.
You're not allowed English ads, but that's awhole other story.
Listen.
Right here in Montreal, we have, RosemountTechnology, center, which is a vocational
training.
I used to have them in once or twice a yearwith their class to give a tour.
(36:22):
Right?
And and the class was filled with men and withwomen, and I break it into three groups, just
total groups.
I didn't break out the sexes, and we'd havedifferent people including myself and give the
tour.
And at the end of the day or at the end of thetour, we come in.
Everybody would get a portfolio, a little bitof information on the company because I was
interested, you know I wanted them to beinterested in the company to call back.
(36:44):
And then the other thing was I gave them theportfolio because I said to them all, hey.
Go home and give this to your parents.
If any of them are in a print position, like,have them call me.
I mean, I'm always selling, but theyappreciated it.
The school appreciated it, and then it wasamazing when you would get a callback from one
or two people if they could do a stash in yourplace.
And if you hire someone for a stash, like, whywouldn't you hire them for whatever minimum
(37:05):
wage is after just to start and let them go
What's a stache?
Give them an opportunity to to excel.
What what's a stache?
Three weeks of, I don't know what you wouldcall it.
Oh, like on the job sharing or, like, jobshadowing?
Okay.
Call it a stage.
Call it a stache.
It's, you you take basically work for three,four weeks without getting paid because it goes
(37:26):
towards your schooling and the experience.
Rotate through different businesses, I bet you,in that time frame.
That's cool.
Yeah.
Or they pick one, but whatever.
It's along the way of just giving people anopportunity to be in the place, see what goes
in, work it.
You don't really put them in a big, big, giantposition because you can't, but it's just the
opportunity just to bring them in.
(37:46):
And and a lot of those people are a lot ofpeople that come from other countries as well,
but that doesn't matter.
Right?
It just to me, people are people.
You need to get a job done.
Everybody should be able to work together.
You wanna build up as many strong hands aspossible.
Right?
It's not about the sex, but getting the jobdone, and you wanna be fair to everybody.
(38:08):
Life life is just so loaded with stress andbullshit.
And today, the world is in such an uneasyplace.
Forget whatever side or whatever you believe orthink.
It's just nobody could talk to anybody normallywithout having, you know, digging their opinion
in with their heels.
Wix doesn't make it easy.
(38:29):
So we get away from that.
We go to work, and at work, we gotta make itfun.
We gotta make it enjoyable.
We gotta make it for what everybody wants andand do it kinda just like that.
You know?
Yeah.
How many, how many members would you like tohave?
11,000.
Like, realistically.
Aye?
Unfortunately, I don't have realism is not inmy is
(38:54):
Never was.
When it comes to when it comes to things thingslike this, I mean, we we've already exceeded
our immediate goal of a hundred members withinthe the first two weeks.
So, that was that was done.
As a matter of fact, I have to, the firsthundred members were founding members, but I
(39:14):
looked past when it was a hundred.
So now we're we're gonna up it to a 50 just sowe can have that.
Here's the last person moment.
Right.
So thank you.
If anyone's listening who joins, includingWarren, thank you so much for already
supporting our mission.
We are, right now, heavily planning andplotting for the rest of the year, to make
(39:36):
every minute, and ev that you spend with GirlsWho Print meaningful and valuable for the time
exchange.
And conversations like this are really, youknow, what gets them started.
So thank you so much, Warren, for for lettingus, you know, be a guest on your podcast today.
And if there's anything we can do for you or ifanyone out there wants to join Girls Who
(40:00):
Prints, Girls Who Print dot net.
And, just, again, thank you so much for forthis platform to to share.
And, while you're helping us with our allyship,I will help you, with, you know, you said you
don't have an audience for podcast.
I don't necessarily believe that's true.
(40:22):
But anything I can do
I don't count.
I don't count.
Anything I can do to help that, grow for you,you know that you have my support, for that.
So we didn't discuss this, but, like, and weknow we don't discount print, but can you give
me a code for the podcast for men?
I'm discriminating and rightfully so.
(40:43):
I wanna get them to join.
So maybe and I don't know what it's gonna be,but it'll be something.
I'll put it there, and I'll promote it after.
Absolutely.
If you heard about if you heard about it on mypodcast, join and, you know, support the
support support Girls Who Print and support theindustry and support women in general.
Support your mother.
(41:04):
Support your daughter.
Support your granddaughter.
How's that?
I love it.
It's, it it doesn't get any better than that.
Oh my god.
I could've made so many jokes.
I didn't, so I'm already trying to change.
You know?
My tongue has holes in it from my teeth.
But, well, you know, I don't want anyone tothink I'm so, like, you know, perfect because
(41:24):
I'm not.
But, anyways wow.
So you know what?
I'm I'm happy that you guys showed up today.
I'm always happy when anyone shows
up tomorrow.
Two I'm gonna give you two a little kind ofmoments clashing moment.
The first time I ever met you face to face,Warren, was in the printer verse.
And, Deborah, I fangirled all over him becauseI love name
(41:46):
is Flash.
The 02/2009 I love printing video that youmade, Warren.
I still watch it, and I still love it.
Some of the best people I know in my life arein from this industry, and we are you the three
of us here on this are here because we freakingcare.
Right?
We're if you strip everything else away, we arehere because we care a lot.
(42:09):
And so I wanna thank the two of you.
Warren, it means a lot to us to give us thisplatform, and we are extremely appreciative,
and we will pay it back in droves throughWhatever.
You know what?
You you you pay it back because you do what youdo.
And if everybody just does what they do, itdoesn't have to be for any reason other than
(42:29):
the right reason, then then then that's whatit's good.
I mean, and listen, love print.
I hope to be able to find some good customersthat wanna pay for some help because we are in
a cheap industry.
But the bottom line is, and I say it all thetime, the world does not function without
print, packaging, anything.
Anything.
And anyone who wants to argue with me, pleasedo.
I haven't had an argument in a long time.
(42:50):
So if you own who we are as an industry, we arenot a commodity.
Right?
I hate that word commodity, but we are in thebest industry in the world.
We make the world run.
We make everybody's lives better.
So own it, be proud of it, be happy about it,and just, like, that's why that's why the
podcast called Printing's Alive.
I just made that up, but it sounds pretty good.
(43:12):
Love it.
We love it.
Anyway, so I'm gonna thank both of you.
And, to everybody who made it to the end, I'malways grateful if you've made it to the end.
I know it's a hard one.
I try to make it to the end of all the podcastsI listen to, but I I'm so grateful that you
even tuned in.
Anything I could do for you, if you wanna hearsomething, a topic, if you know someone who
wants to be on and say something, just reachout to me.
(43:32):
Let me know.
This is gonna be on every week, the podcast,and, I just wanna promote print.
So, everybody, you guys, girls, thank you.
Everybody else, thank you, and we'll see you onthe next one.
Hey.
Welcome back to another podcast, PrintingsAlive.
The podcast where we talk everything printglobal, and I mean anything from paper, cement,
glasses, electronics.
I don't care.
Anyways, we're moving on.
Today, we have a really special group.
We have Girls Who Print.
Welcome, ladies.
Hello, Warren.
(00:30):
Hello.
Hello.
And, the reason we have Girls Who Print ontoday is I thought would be a great idea to
introduce the group because the group has justwent through a change.
They've gone from, I don't know what they were,an association of business or something, to a
nonprofit.
The nonprofit just makes it more, puts it outthere, makes it more reachable for everybody,
(00:54):
and then at the same time, Girls Who Print cannow define and tell you exactly what they're
doing because they have a mandate, they have amission, they have a board, they have,
everything else that a nonprofit has.
So, welcome, Deborah.
Welcome, Kelly.
Thank you so much, Warren, for having us.
Really appreciate it.
Thanks, Warren.
Pleasure's all mine.
So, which one of you wants to go first,Deborah?
(01:17):
And, tell us a little bit about Girls Who Printand it going nonprofit.
Sure.
Thanks so much.
Prior to this year, Girls Who Print is andremains the largest network of women in the
printing industry with more than 11,500,participants.
(01:37):
And it was imperative for us to to your mostexcellent point that, becoming a nonprofit
would enable us to really have missions thatare transparent, that are things that people,
and and companies can get behind.
And, also, of course, being a nonprofit meansif you're in The United States, these are
(02:02):
considered charitable donations.
So whether you're you, are a member or youwanna sponsor, if you're if you pay through
United States, it is considered a charitabledonation, which was actually important to a lot
of companies out there, in the sense that theyhad a justification for supporting the the the
(02:22):
movement, and it was more difficult when themoney was going into the print media center
bank account because that was, Girls Who Printwas under the, Printiverse umbrella.
So now with it pulled out, it is a separateentity.
There is a board, as you said.
There is an advisory board.
(02:44):
There's three directors.
I am, you know, bound by the bylaws, and theway we operate and function.
And it has really, elevated our mission in thesense that it is more formalized, and that
turned into us because we needed funding in adifferent way.
(03:07):
We developed a comprehensive membership programand platform to give people a reason to join
us.
Now I wanna say that whether or not you becomea member of Girls Who Print, I mean, we we hope
you do because that helps us fund everythingthat we do.
However and and there's benefits for forjoining, of course.
(03:28):
But Kelly and I will never stop doing thingsout in the open.
There is going to be everything we do of thebig stuff is always out in the open, and the
members will have a little more access with Askthe Experts and some skill building, workshops
and, white papers and research that normallypeople would not have access to, and that's
(03:55):
through the generosity of our sponsors.
But at the heart of all of it is our mentorshipprogram, and Kelly, is the newly minted vice
president and program director of Girls WhoPrint.
So if you don't mind, I'll pass it off to herto explain, all about the programs and
especially our vibrant and successful mentoringprogram.
(04:19):
Well, I have a question first, though.
You said there's 11,000 people that are part ofGirls Who Print.
Do we know how many women there are in theprinting industry?
No.
They can't help.
That women women globally, I believe the Ibelieve globally the stat is 32% of the entire
(04:41):
global industry is comprised of women in nomatter what their no matter what their role is.
Okay.
K.
That's good.
Good.
So the
third leadership roles are are less than that.
Definitely.
And, you know, we see we see mentorship as acrucial a crucial cornerstone of what we're
offering largely, because mentorship is aboutlived experience, and it's about guidance, and
(05:05):
it's about lifting each other up.
Right?
And I don't know of any mentoring relationshipwhere the mentor gets just as much as the
mentee does.
They're incredibly important relationships.
Many of the matches that we've made have lastedfive, six, seven years now.
I I talked to one mentor who actually flew tomeet her mentee in person.
(05:26):
People have helped people navigate getting jobinterviews.
It's tactical work that's happening, becauseyou're not gonna find too many printing
companies in The United States or maybeanywhere that have formalized mentoring
programs.
There may there may be some.
But you're not gonna you're sorry.
You're not gonna just everyone's aware.
You're not gonna find a lot of that in a lot ofindustries.
(05:48):
That's right.
Right.
That's not true.
Because we single ourselves out all the time.
It's a it's an issue everywhere.
It really it really is.
That's so that's such a good point.
But we also know, and I'm sure this is notunique to the printing industry either, but we
have a massive workforce crisis happening inthis country.
I don't know of any printer.
(06:09):
I don't know of any printer.
Again, I don't wanna always center this aroundThe United States, but in our experience,
everybody is stare staring down the barrel ofmassive retirements.
Right?
And so we see girls who print being a crucialelement to formalizing and forming
relationships with the educators and thestudents in this country and the students
(06:32):
everywhere.
There's some great colleges in Canada thatwe're working with too, because we need to show
the students that they have a vibrant, viablefuture in the industry, that it is that it is a
great industry, that it's a very technologicalindustry, that it is a crucial part of the
marketing supply chain.
(06:52):
Right?
And so every conversation I have, because Ihave many, many conversations every day with
potential mentors and potential mentees andeducators, that this is a this is a very kind
of intertwined kind of experience right now.
And without Girls Who Print, I don't know howwomen are gonna get to the role of of realizing
(07:15):
50% of the leadership positions in this countrybecause we are nowhere near it.
We make up 50% of the workforce, but we do notmake up 50% of the leadership.
So this is a work of generations.
Right?
But we've been doing it very consistently forgoing into my goodness.
It's almost twenty years, you know, and it'sit's just incredibly important.
(07:36):
And everybody has a voice here.
Warren, you've been incredibly supportive.
And one of the reasons that we wanna talk toyou about this is to hear your viewpoint on on
a man's role in helping to empower and lift upwomen.
I mean, we all have a role to play.
Right?
Yeah.
So, when you mentioned, you know, 50% of theworkforce, I don't wanna look I don't wanna
(08:00):
lose sight of every company should want thebest person regardless of their gender in that
position.
Like, because you need the best skills ifyou're gonna go ahead, but you should be
promoting and pushing everyone and not haveanyone being held back.
If I talk about print, the women I knew workingin print were always just better with details
(08:23):
and more careful and watch it.
No.
Like, those are important things.
Get off the press.
You know?
Who wants paper cuts anyways?
But get off the press and you get it to finishand you get into quality control, you get into,
whatever it is.
There was a little bit more attention todetail.
I noticed, my company, my head shipping person,you're gonna laugh, it used to be my nanny.
(08:45):
When we didn't when when when kids got to thepoint we didn't need somebody in the house,
offered her a job at my place, and, she came inand just doing some bindery and helping.
And the next thing you know, she's running theshipping department.
How good was that?
I wanna say something now that I think is areal teachable moment if it's,
(09:09):
Go over it.
Okay.
So what you just communicated is actuallyunconscious bias in in in a lot of ways.
And what I would like to say to everybodylistening is when you need a press operator
Right.
Don't just think that a guy would be better,suited for it because you believe a woman is
(09:34):
better suited for the management side of thingsor however you wanna.
I'm not suggesting you said that.
I mean, but it is it is this is this is thething.
We've been socialized to to think this, andit's the first way we think it of things, of of
what a traditional what a man's role in acompany is, what a woman's role in a company
(09:59):
is, what a woman's role, in a in in a familyis, what a man's role in a family is.
I'm just saying that we we grow up that way.
It doesn't make it wrong that you think thisway, but what I'm suggesting is that when
you're looking for the best person for the job,which we agree is the way to do it, Don't
(10:22):
discount people So because of they might be awoman running a press.
You know, like, let's
say, let me let me re
Go ahead, please.
Sorry.
Let me just rephrase that because I get whatyou're saying.
In my case, when I made reference to the pressperson, I don't know many women at all who are
ready to lift 56 inch press sheets every dayall day.
(10:43):
I'm not saying there aren't some.
Correct.
But there are certain things.
What I was gonna say to you.
Like, if you wanna work at FedEx or UPS is arequirement that you have to lift be able to
lift lift a certain amount
of tape.
And if you
do that, and if you want to do that, you shouldbe considered if you're the best person for the
(11:03):
position.
I I don't believe we are having an argument ordebate here at all.
Oh, not yet.
Wrong for saying that.
I just wanted to point out that it's statementslike that that are just accepted, and and we
move on from it because we're used to theseconversations.
So so just and we'll get off the topic becausewherever we'll go.
(11:26):
But, you know, the fact that I and this isanother little issue.
The fact that I said it the way that I did withno meaning that you were referencing when you
bring up that meaning, it's very possible oh,me.
I'm good, but the hair on the back of my neckcould go up because I sense that I feel that
there's a a thing coming Correct.
When there isn't.
So we all have to be careful
(11:48):
Yes.
Of what we say and how we say it.
Right.
And I really appreciate that you said that,which is why I was very careful before I
started before I brought it up.
But I couldn't let the moment go by becausethen I would be agreeing with what you were
saying.
Yeah.
No.
No.
That's cool.
And by the way, it's not that I don't.
There is something to the hunter gatherer thingabout, the the traits of human beings.
(12:12):
And I do agree that if you want you know, ifyou're looking for the person in your company
to just, here's this thing, go get it, you'reprobably better off sending a gentleman to do
that.
If you want someone to look at everything, makesense of it, come up with a strategic plan for
the company to win Right.
That's that's a Well, listen.
If there's if there's a strong woman who that'swhat she wants to do, she could be in the mix
(12:37):
of fighting for the job.
Of course.
I'm I'm just thinking in terms of, you know,just simple basic things because it is what it
is in some areas of strength.
Right?
And whatnot.
But what you just illustrated to everybody outthere is that you were able to put those hairs
on the back of your neck down for a moment andtake a breath and listen to what was
(13:02):
communicated, and then you can make yourassessments about if you wanna take that on or
not.
But it it was it was really great teachingmoment for everybody out there because you
didn't take it.
You didn't even though you immediately feltdefensive, you didn't act on it, and you
allowed for the space just to have theconversation.
(13:26):
It's not that you're wrong and I'm right.
There's there's nothing in there.
The at the end, the result should be the best,to your point, the best person for the for the
position.
It's just the unconscious bias that is notintentional in most cases only has men
(13:46):
interviewing for certain jobs and would welcomewomen to interview for certain jobs.
Yeah.
And that that'll be, you know, that'll be overtime.
Listen, I had I had somebody the other day, notin print, and it's kinda just funny, but I have
a I'm chatting with a friend who's workingsomewhere and she's killing it.
Like, I mean, she's killing it.
And there's other salespeople there, a couplegentlemen and like the top management they ride
(14:09):
her.
And and she called and said what do I do?
And I said well you just you know, I said justbe straight put it on the line but don't stand
down.
And I and I and I and I said, doing what you'redoing.
I said, I'm sure if you were more manly, theywouldn't give you the same thing, you know.
And and so for me, you know, first of all, whenyou guys allowed men and I went and joined, I
(14:31):
thought it was the right thing to do for thesimple reason of this.
And and everything in my first of all, let mejust back up.
I make jokes all the time.
I make man jokes.
I make female jokes.
I'm a joker, and, the times we live in, I don'treally give a shit.
I'm back in the days of Lenny Bruce.
And when it really was humor, George Carlin,Richard Pryor, and whatever.
(14:51):
Right?
And that's what it is.
To me, it's only humor.
So anyone who says anything to me after aboutit is not interested.
But I was happy to join because I'm alwayshappy to know and I'm happy to learn.
But a a changing point in the man woman thingcame for me when I had a daughter because
(15:11):
everybody I talked to and and what I said tothe person yesterday was because I don't wanna
tell everybody to do what to do and, you know,and I suggested to them that when they're
talking with their other counterparts, I saidto I said ask one of them, how he would react
if his daughter came home and told him the samestory where she's killing it the best in the
(15:32):
company and all they keep doing is wanna knowwhy she came in late.
And no one ever asked me why I'm late.
Right?
I think it's really important that we think ofthis in terms of the amount of time it's gonna
take.
Right?
We've done some we've done a lot of researchand seen that we we you can predict that women
(15:53):
will not reach career trajectory parity until2050 or something like this.
Right?
And the three of us, we can all agree are genx.
Right?
So, Deborah, you brought up some really awesomepoints about the fact that from the moment we
were born, we were taught certain things aboutwhat it was to be a female just like Warren was
taught things about, you know, what it was tobe a a boy and a man in the world.
(16:15):
And I think what I celebrate is I have two gengen z's and two gen alphas in my house.
We don't utter the phrase man up.
Right?
We don't we don't utter the phrase you throwlike a girl.
Right?
So we know that younger generations are beingraised with a different lens, a different
viewpoint in a different lived experience.
(16:35):
And so for those of us, for those of youwatching this who are running companies and
thinking about this and all going, we got toget more Gen Z in here now.
It is to shore up our behaviors and how wetreat people, our hiring practices, our
onboarding practices, our training, everythingnot to accommodate them, but to welcome them.
(17:01):
Right?
And to say that we are going to be better asorganizations when we have young people, we're
gonna be better as organizations when we havemultiple viewpoints, multiple voices, multiple
brains.
Right?
We just did a whole we just did a whole podcastearlier today about neurodivergence.
And and this is the work of girls who print isvisibility and its workforce development, and
(17:27):
it is leading by example to to show that toyour point, Warren, about your friend, women
are killing it at work women.
We know that there are female CEOs, there arefemales heading organizations.
There are women in tremendous positions ofpower in this country.
And for us, it's to amplify those voices andmultiply that.
(17:48):
Right?
That's that's what we're trying
to do.
I know a lot of guys who wanna be stay at homedads.
Right?
And we just we've we've been we've beendiscriminated against.
We've been put in a place where
With paternity leave too.
%.
Right?
We fight for your right for for that as aswell.
Yeah.
That's such a
Never mind never mind that.
(18:08):
Yeah.
I you know, I want the partner to go out and doeverything.
Yeah.
Open the door.
You know, I'll make dinner.
No.
I'm just kidding with some of that stuff.
But but not really.
Yeah.
I actually, am friends with a a father of twochildren, and he is a single dad.
And he he has to make the same accommodationsthat mostly you hear women having to make at
(18:29):
work about travel schedules and work schedulesand when they can be online and when they can't
be online.
And it was, it was actually eye opening for mebecause I thought, oh, that he probably doesn't
have any of the of the obstacles, and they werethe exact same obstacles.
So somehow that made me, you know, think thatwe have more people to bring to the table.
(18:55):
And certainly, at this point, you know,regarding men, coming to girls who print, there
will always be a few things that will be womenonly.
There'll be a couple of forms that are womenonly, and there may be a couple of
There should be.
And there will also be exclusive content forour gentlemen allies and exclusive forms for
(19:19):
our gentlemen allies.
So everybody has what what has been deemed asafe space, which just means you whatever the
the group will accept, you're allowed to, youknow, communicate with each other within the
boundaries of that that group's decorum.
Right?
But to not we must move forward together,especially since, you know, some of these
(19:44):
management styles that have been moreoppressive to everybody, I I mean, everybody,
go out the door when the boomers and the genx's are are out.
The millennials are more open to, to, havingmore people at the table because that that's
the way that they grew up or they saw what theGen Xers did, and they were like, we don't want
(20:06):
any part of that.
So I'm a little hopeful that we are at a cuspof things changing as more of the millennials I
don't know.
That should be interesting to to see.
What what do you
think about that?
I don't I don't even like the fact thateverybody's labeled with something because
they're walking in with predetermined if thatif that person walking in is not a Gen Zer and
(20:30):
we're calling them Gen Z'ers, it's no differentthan calling anybody else another name because
they're offended and they're already feelingnot comfortable because they've been labeled.
A label's a label.
Good, bad, I'm just saying.
Right?
But I think we're at a good time now, you know,women in print and just changing print in
general even for younger people because we arein such need of people coming in that, you
(20:55):
know, I joke that the front of a press now isnot the old days.
The front of the press looks like a video game.
Right?
Your pressman, you don't really get that dirtybecause more of the new presses have the
canisters for the ink and not scooping.
Press what I say?
Pressman Men.
Whatever.
Press person.
Call him whatever.
(21:15):
And and by the way, that stuff is just becauseit's been so long.
But when I look at my son and how where hedoes, he doesn't say he what he's he's pretty
clear on stuff.
And when I say certain things, he calls me outon it just because he grew up not talking that
way.
People have to forget some of the older people.
(21:35):
It's not about meaning it.
It's just about, the flow of words and the waythat it's all listen, my father at the office
used to say, hey.
Hello dear to the receptionist.
Yeah.
Well, that's what's going on.
One day she was one day she's okay.
The next day she's ready to sue.
The guy's 80 years old.
What do you think he was doing?
Right?
Like, it's been like that for years.
(21:56):
Anyways, my point is now is a good time foreverybody and for companies to embrace, just
doing it right, men and women, because we needyounger people.
So it doesn't matter what specific job it is,we have to dress it up, we have to make it
look, you know, engaging, encouraging,educational.
(22:19):
The folders today, you're not folding andputting pieces of paper under to get your
thickness of the fold.
You're pushing a button with 300 presets forpaper and design and template.
So anybody could run or more people can run,folders if you're mechanically inclined because
it still takes something.
Right?
And that's, like, for every job.
(22:40):
So we should be promoting agree.
Yeah.
We should be promoting to everybody now, in theindustry.
And I think the industry itself, like, leaveout women for a moment.
The industry itself has issues, and it's evengot issues because it can attract younger men.
Correct.
Right?
So we're making so we're making it twice ashard.
(23:02):
So we should all just come together to attractpeople.
Yes.
And we know there are people doing this reallywell.
Right?
So we know we know two things.
We know there are dozens, if not hundreds, ifnot thousands of young people getting ready to
graduate with print management degrees, graphicarts degrees, business degrees.
Right?
(23:22):
Let's not put too much tunnel vision on this.
We should be talking to kids in businessschools.
Right?
People that are interested in marketing, thosekinds of things.
So we know that's a truth.
We also know that a very, very small percentageof companies have robust specific internship
programs, but it's a minuscule.
It's a tiny little number.
(23:42):
So the disconnect between these kids coming outand the people that are ready to receive them,
again, that's where we see girls who print inother organizations, you know, playing a very
crucial role in making those connections.
The associations are doing a good job of this.
But, yes, we all the industry, Warren, you'reabsolutely right.
The industry has a responsibility here, and wedon't we don't really have, like, a governing
(24:08):
body of our industry in this country.
I don't know.
I mean, I think that they must be doing it inother countries because I just saw a post from
a UK company that has
a very robust apprenticeship program.
The the the Europeans do they love they do havetheir apprenticeships.
That but you just hit upon something really,really important, which is why I think that
(24:31):
Girls Who Print is such an importantorganization because we are independent.
The other organizations are all part ofsomething else.
They're an offshoot of of a specific segment ofthe industry, or they are run by organizations
that have vested interest in in, you know,helping their their own membership, and there's
(24:52):
nothing wrong with those things.
But the only neutral thing out there isactually Girls Who Print, and we we will direct
people to the correct organization if they'relooking for specific help in wide format or
specific help in flexography.
You know, they're or they're in Australia.
There's a robust women's organization there.
(25:13):
So we we have to, you know, be citizens of theworld and which is one of the reasons why, you
know, the regional organizations of Girls WhoPrint are so important.
And, we're actually going to I'm gonna give youan exclusive on your podcast, Warren.
Yay.
We are, finalizing a very solid relationshipwith the FESPA Federation, to work with them
(25:41):
and support all the women in, around the worldthat participate at FESPA events and with the
individual organizations within the regions andthe companies.
And, we are we will be launching our our GirlsWho Print Europe at, the upcoming, global FESPA
coming up.
(26:01):
We're also gonna have events in Hunkler.
So the international community is also comingto the table.
Girls who print has always been global, but Ithey are stepping up in in more ways than I can
even tell you now.
There's a girls who print Japan that runsindependently because none of us speak
Japanese, unfortunately.
(26:22):
And, we did we actually got up and we did apresentation at 01:00 in the morning, for for
they had a girls who print event.
And they we we understand that as Americans, wehave a we have a, a limited view of the world
and and how things work individual.
(26:43):
I know.
I know.
As a Canadian, I just wanna tell you that Iagree with you.
Yes.
We understand that, fully.
And, so we're not trying to go into Italy orJapan and say, this is the way you need to do
things.
We're here to say, how can we help you supportyour local community?
We always will take care of the the biggestthings, the Gozo Buen Day, the International
(27:07):
Women's Conference.
Not that they couldn't have their own.
They could if they wanted to.
But what I'm saying is that we all have to dothis together globally in the industry.
And, you know, welcoming students and and menis definitely part of why we believe that,
(27:28):
there are many options out there to jointhings, but I would just,
you
know, implore people to just take a look andsee if it's something, you know, that you or
your peers or your colleagues or yourconnections benefit from and and, you know,
support programs that actually don't havevested interests in them.
(27:51):
So I'm gonna make a a suggestion for whoever'slistening.
If you're a print owner, and I don't care ifyou're a man or a woman, you should join, Girls
Who Print.
You should get the logo, and it should sayproud member on your website.
For the simple and I'm by the way, I am notspeaking because I am so righteous in buying
(28:12):
everything.
This is strictly from a hiring position, right,marketing position.
You should have the logo on the website.
If there are other women that are lookingaround and they see that, that will give you a
jump up over the next person.
Right?
And then, of course, you have to live by whatyou say, which is also another good thing.
If you have a wife or a daughter, I'm sure shecould help you.
(28:35):
But I think the more people that sign on andshow it, right, and whether they come to every
meeting or not or they should have well,there's women in the company.
If you're gonna if you're an owner and you'regonna join for the logo to have on the website,
that's great.
Make sure that you take one or two in from thecompany and tie them in so they represent you
there.
Right?
(28:55):
And I think that that is that is a first startto everybody and jumping on.
And by the way, to the to the owners out there,you know what?
I don't know what the cost is for a company$2.03, $4.05, $6.07, 800, a thousand dollars.
Don't tell me you can't afford it.
You make bigger mistakes and you may and youspend stupid money.
(29:16):
So spend a few hundred dollars, spend whateverit is, and just make the effort to show that
you care.
Even if you don't, make the effort to show youcare for the people that work for your company
first.
Yeah.
It's so
telling it straight.
It and it is straight, and I appreciate itbecause coming from you, I mean, anybody who
listens to you knows you're not saying thingsjust to say them.
(29:39):
Like, I don't say things just to say them.
Then there's you know?
So I really appreciate and respect what whathow you're communicating this for to everybody,
and I really do thank you because we needpeople like you to help us because it as in our
little exchange that we had before, if it it itcould go in any different direction.
(30:05):
And we don't wanna become lecturing people, andwe're not the we're not the the word police.
Made a joke there, but I didn't.
I held back.
I bit my tongue.
I'm just saying we're not the word police.
We're not we're not trying to focus on words.
All we're trying to say is that the only word Iwanna focus on is unconscious.
(30:26):
We understand that in most cases, myselfincluded, are making decisions based upon my
life experience.
Whether it's true or not, I formulated someopinion about it.
And it's only when I'm challenged on why do youthink that way that I think back and I don't
(30:48):
know.
You know?
And I'll give you an example for printing.
When I was working in advertising agencies, Ihad a you're gonna you're not gonna be happy
when I say this.
I had printers that I work with on, let's say,commercial print stuff, and then I had a wide
format printer that I work with on wide format.
Did I ever ask my commercial printers if theyhad wide format equipment or my wide format
(31:13):
printer if they had commercial equipment?
No.
Because we didn't think that way back then.
I'm getting the wide format from the wideformat and the commercial from the commercial,
and that's
the way it is.
That way.
People weren't doing it all.
Exactly.
So that's the way I thought it was untilsomeone said, you know, we can do it all.
And I was like, what?
What do you mean?
(31:35):
You could do it all.
Yes.
We started investing in wide format equipment.
Now and what did I do?
I wanted to be where I could do the most thingsin one place with one PO to rule them all.
Because you're not running around.
Exactly.
And that's the way we think about girls whoprint.
Whether you're a paid member or a free member,whether you're a sponsor or just somebody who's
(31:58):
benefiting from our programming, we still havethe good of the industry as our the mission
want critical is make the industry moreattractive to everybody where whether it's
students or people in your community lookingfor work or I I work with a, I'm on the
(32:19):
advisory board for something called five keysthat helps people who were in jail come come
out and and get jobs, and skills.
And, there's one of the people on the board hadgotten trouble, got into trouble when he was
younger, And now, he learned skills through thefive keys.
(32:40):
And now not only does he own his ownconstruction company, but he's hiring the the
people from the program.
And they have a print program there, and theyhave, other other things that are are, let's
say, you know, manuals manual skills that youcan learn.
You can learn how to print on a printing press.
You can learn how to use the cutting machineand things like that.
(33:03):
So and you can learn how to be a prepressperson because, some of some of the, people in
those these programs also work behindcomputers.
So there is a wealth of people to work in theprinting industry if we sort of let go some of
these preconceived notions, including anycollege degree.
(33:26):
Not everybody has access to college.
I don't care who you are.
Not at any
dropped out of college.
I couldn't sit there.
I was going, you know And
that's that's another thing.
We were talking about we did a podcast thismorning with Sarah Hannesen.
She's a product productivity coach, and we weretalking about neurodiversity and that it's
something that has to be recognized.
(33:46):
If you have a great employee and they'refidgeting or something, they're not the weird
guy, you know, like, may you know?
I'm just I'm just How many people
how many people ask their doctor, whatpercentage they graduated when they got their
degree?
None.
Right?
(34:06):
None.
Some some of those doctors have to finish atthe bottom of the class.
Right.
I'm just I just It just You know, so you don'tneed to know everything all the time.
It doesn't mean a good person with a goodlearning is good.
By the way, that's why that's why at mycompany, we used to do all these psychological
(34:29):
tests for certain positions, a, to make sure wehad the right person and, you know, b, to make
sure we didn't have we didn't bring in thewrong person.
You bring in the wrong person, everybodyalready knows it.
There's no secrets.
Yeah.
But listen.
Our industry is not known for being, so muchforward thinking as a norm that people spend
(34:51):
money in certain areas.
Like, people say to me, why would you spend$1,800 on a test?
Well, you have a guy come in for twelve weeks,it's $12.13 grand.
What's another 1,800 to find out if he's theright guy or not?
Plus whatever he sees or she sees, all around.
Right?
You gotta you gotta make smart decisions.
Smart decisions are smart decisions.
(35:13):
Yeah.
And that might be removing a college degree asa requirement to fill out an application.
Could be that simple.
You could open up the doors to a million peoplewho'd be fantastic.
You know, I I know you're you're in inMontreal, so I and French is the official
(35:33):
language there.
Right?
So it's not?
I thought French is you know?
I'm sure you speak French.
I don't talk politics.
I don't think I'm talking politics.
Am I talking to your
politics.
Okay.
My apologies.
We just know that when you
look at my show, the
the French Canadian
be a French version of this podcast.
Okay.
But, I'm I'm assuming that if there's a printshop looking for workers that there's ads in
(35:59):
French and there's ads in English, or there hasto be both.
Right?
Well, okay.
We're not gonna go into it, but they're Frenchonly.
You're not allowed English ads, but that's awhole other story.
Listen.
Right here in Montreal, we have, RosemountTechnology, center, which is a vocational
training.
I used to have them in once or twice a yearwith their class to give a tour.
(36:22):
Right?
And and the class was filled with men and withwomen, and I break it into three groups, just
total groups.
I didn't break out the sexes, and we'd havedifferent people including myself and give the
tour.
And at the end of the day or at the end of thetour, we come in.
Everybody would get a portfolio, a little bitof information on the company because I was
interested, you know I wanted them to beinterested in the company to call back.
(36:44):
And then the other thing was I gave them theportfolio because I said to them all, hey.
Go home and give this to your parents.
If any of them are in a print position, like,have them call me.
I mean, I'm always selling, but theyappreciated it.
The school appreciated it, and then it wasamazing when you would get a callback from one
or two people if they could do a stash in yourplace.
And if you hire someone for a stash, like, whywouldn't you hire them for whatever minimum
(37:05):
wage is after just to start and let them go
What's a stache?
Give them an opportunity to to excel.
What what's a stache?
Three weeks of, I don't know what you wouldcall it.
Oh, like on the job sharing or, like, jobshadowing?
Okay.
Call it a stage.
Call it a stache.
It's, you you take basically work for three,four weeks without getting paid because it goes
(37:26):
towards your schooling and the experience.
Rotate through different businesses, I bet you,in that time frame.
That's cool.
Yeah.
Or they pick one, but whatever.
It's along the way of just giving people anopportunity to be in the place, see what goes
in, work it.
You don't really put them in a big, big, giantposition because you can't, but it's just the
opportunity just to bring them in.
(37:46):
And and a lot of those people are a lot ofpeople that come from other countries as well,
but that doesn't matter.
Right?
It just to me, people are people.
You need to get a job done.
Everybody should be able to work together.
You wanna build up as many strong hands aspossible.
Right?
It's not about the sex, but getting the jobdone, and you wanna be fair to everybody.
(38:08):
Life life is just so loaded with stress andbullshit.
And today, the world is in such an uneasyplace.
Forget whatever side or whatever you believe orthink.
It's just nobody could talk to anybody normallywithout having, you know, digging their opinion
in with their heels.
Wix doesn't make it easy.
(38:29):
So we get away from that.
We go to work, and at work, we gotta make itfun.
We gotta make it enjoyable.
We gotta make it for what everybody wants andand do it kinda just like that.
You know?
Yeah.
How many, how many members would you like tohave?
11,000.
Like, realistically.
Aye?
Unfortunately, I don't have realism is not inmy is
(38:54):
Never was.
When it comes to when it comes to things thingslike this, I mean, we we've already exceeded
our immediate goal of a hundred members withinthe the first two weeks.
So, that was that was done.
As a matter of fact, I have to, the firsthundred members were founding members, but I
(39:14):
looked past when it was a hundred.
So now we're we're gonna up it to a 50 just sowe can have that.
Here's the last person moment.
Right.
So thank you.
If anyone's listening who joins, includingWarren, thank you so much for already
supporting our mission.
We are, right now, heavily planning andplotting for the rest of the year, to make
(39:36):
every minute, and ev that you spend with GirlsWho Print meaningful and valuable for the time
exchange.
And conversations like this are really, youknow, what gets them started.
So thank you so much, Warren, for for lettingus, you know, be a guest on your podcast today.
And if there's anything we can do for you or ifanyone out there wants to join Girls Who
(40:00):
Prints, Girls Who Print dot net.
And, just, again, thank you so much for forthis platform to to share.
And, while you're helping us with our allyship,I will help you, with, you know, you said you
don't have an audience for podcast.
I don't necessarily believe that's true.
(40:22):
But anything I can do
I don't count.
I don't count.
Anything I can do to help that, grow for you,you know that you have my support, for that.
So we didn't discuss this, but, like, and weknow we don't discount print, but can you give
me a code for the podcast for men?
I'm discriminating and rightfully so.
(40:43):
I wanna get them to join.
So maybe and I don't know what it's gonna be,but it'll be something.
I'll put it there, and I'll promote it after.
Absolutely.
If you heard about if you heard about it on mypodcast, join and, you know, support the
support support Girls Who Print and support theindustry and support women in general.
Support your mother.
(41:04):
Support your daughter.
Support your granddaughter.
How's that?
I love it.
It's, it it doesn't get any better than that.
Oh my god.
I could've made so many jokes.
I didn't, so I'm already trying to change.
You know?
My tongue has holes in it from my teeth.
But, well, you know, I don't want anyone tothink I'm so, like, you know, perfect because
(41:24):
I'm not.
But, anyways wow.
So you know what?
I'm I'm happy that you guys showed up today.
I'm always happy when anyone shows
up tomorrow.
Two I'm gonna give you two a little kind ofmoments clashing moment.
The first time I ever met you face to face,Warren, was in the printer verse.
And, Deborah, I fangirled all over him becauseI love name
(41:46):
is Flash.
The 02/2009 I love printing video that youmade, Warren.
I still watch it, and I still love it.
Some of the best people I know in my life arein from this industry, and we are you the three
of us here on this are here because we freakingcare.
Right?
We're if you strip everything else away, we arehere because we care a lot.
(42:09):
And so I wanna thank the two of you.
Warren, it means a lot to us to give us thisplatform, and we are extremely appreciative,
and we will pay it back in droves throughWhatever.
You know what?
You you you pay it back because you do what youdo.
And if everybody just does what they do, itdoesn't have to be for any reason other than
(42:29):
the right reason, then then then that's whatit's good.
I mean, and listen, love print.
I hope to be able to find some good customersthat wanna pay for some help because we are in
a cheap industry.
But the bottom line is, and I say it all thetime, the world does not function without
print, packaging, anything.
Anything.
And anyone who wants to argue with me, pleasedo.
I haven't had an argument in a long time.
(42:50):
So if you own who we are as an industry, we arenot a commodity.
Right?
I hate that word commodity, but we are in thebest industry in the world.
We make the world run.
We make everybody's lives better.
So own it, be proud of it, be happy about it,and just, like, that's why that's why the
podcast called Printing's Alive.
I just made that up, but it sounds pretty good.
(43:12):
Love it.
We love it.
Anyway, so I'm gonna thank both of you.
And, to everybody who made it to the end, I'malways grateful if you've made it to the end.
I know it's a hard one.
I try to make it to the end of all the podcastsI listen to, but I I'm so grateful that you
even tuned in.
Anything I could do for you, if you wanna hearsomething, a topic, if you know someone who
wants to be on and say something, just reachout to me.
(43:32):
Let me know.
This is gonna be on every week, the podcast,and, I just wanna promote print.
So, everybody, you guys, girls, thank you.
Everybody else, thank you, and we'll see you onthe next one.
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