March 25, 2025 • 58 mins
In this episode of Printing's Alive, Jennifer McConnell from Royal Out West discusses her role and the company's innovative printing services, including sustainable sugar sheet paper. She highlights effective marketing strategies and PrintForward's training program, debunking the myth that print is dead. Jennifer explores Royal Out West's growth, investments in equipment, and staff development. She shares advice for women in the industry, discusses company culture, and reflects on family business dynamics. Jennifer emphasizes self-awareness, overcoming adversity, and the power of belief and support, encouraging listener engagement.
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(00:08):
Hey, all.
We're back with another edition of Printing'sAlive, where we talk everything print.
So today, we have a guest, special guest,always a special guest.
Anyone who comes on my podcast is special.
We have Jennifer McConnell from Royal Out West.
How are you, Jennifer?
I'm good, Warren.
How are you?
(00:29):
Great.
Thanks.
So Royal is the new name, but they were knownfor or since 1932 as Royal Printers.
Nothing to do with the Queen or The UK, justlike the name Royal.
I will tell you that from what I know, Royal isa fourth generation printing company, which I
think is pretty awesome today, because I don'tknow that they go that run that far and deep.
(00:51):
And we have two of the siblings running it,brother and sister.
So I'm just gonna turn to you, Jennifer.
And what do you
wanna tell me about Royal?
You know, I've been in the industry, just hitmy twenty year anniversary, and I've been with
Royal now for a little bit over a year.
(01:12):
And I haven't worked at a ton of companies inthe industry.
I'd say four or five really good ones if I hadto give my opinion on that.
But Royal has definitely been something else.
It's the first place that I've been able towork at and feel like I'm really in my element
(01:32):
and doing the things that I'm meant to do.
And so I feel very seen by our President andVice President, Bryce and Chelsea Gieshin.
They seemed to see something in me that maybeothers couldn't.
And so I just feel like coming in here everyday isn't like coming to work.
(01:54):
It's just coming to my other family, as cheesyas that sounds.
But yeah, I love working here.
They're a great family.
They're very supportive and very decent, humblehuman beings.
So, oh my God, I almost wanna cry.
No, in nice way.
(02:16):
Yeah.
Number one, just to hear everything you saidabout you and, you know, being seen and feeling
good about that, because everyone should beseen, everyone should feel good everywhere they
work.
And it's not so cheesy when you say the familything because the reality is we all spend more
time, it doesn't matter what industry, businessyou're in, but you always end up spending,
unless you're working from home, but you end upspending more time working with the people at
(02:40):
work.
So to feel like they're a family is amazing.
When I had my company and we were, you know, alot of people strong, nothing made me happier
than just seeing everybody and working togetherand everyone getting along and feeling family
and you know, the partying afterwards, becauseit just can't all be work and no play.
But that's really what makes it great whenpeople wanna go to work, because people that go
(03:03):
to work are looking out for the people at workand what's going on, right?
Where do your best ideas come from?
The people at work.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Collaboration.
When feel part of the team.
So that's really good.
What does Royal specialize in or what standsout at Royal?
Why should anybody want to, sorry, why shouldanyone want to look at Royal, aside from the
(03:26):
color purple on the website, which
is awesome.
Because I'm here.
Are
End podcast, end of podcast.
We've done it all.
That's great.
We're a commodity printer.
So we do a lot of your really
I the word commodity.
I know, but it is what we are.
(03:47):
And so we're the necessity, right?
I've worked at companies where they're doing alot of really high end, fancy boutique work and
stuff like that.
And that was really exciting and reallychallenging, but it's hard to get a lot of
those projects.
(04:07):
And so sometimes, you'd be working on oneproject for six months and I'm the type of
person that likes to complete things.
And so when something takes six months tocomplete, it can get a little stressful for me.
So, you know, we do a lot of your stationery,laser checks, business forms, that sort of
(04:28):
thing.
But we do a lot of book printing here as well.
I think what makes us stand out more thananyone else in the industry, especially in
Canada, is that we're the only Canadian printerusing the commercial grade of our sugar sheet.
So it's completely tree free.
It's made from the gas, which is a byproduct ofthe sugar refinement process from sugarcane.
(04:54):
And so we focus a lot of our sustainabilityaround how many trees are saved, CO2 not
emitted from processing trees, bringing trees,hauling them around the country on trucks.
We bring our paper up by ship.
So it's pretty interesting to see and weprovide our customers data on all that if they
(05:18):
want to have that as a part of theirsustainability plan as well.
Is the sheet edible?
Can you put it I
mean, I think all paper is edible.
I've definitely eaten my fair share of paper.
Sometimes you just it's the only way to shutup, you know?
Just put some paper in your mouth and stop theconversation.
(05:39):
Absolutely.
With environmentally good ink.
Yep.
So okay.
So I I personally don't know from sugar gradepaper.
Mhmm.
I've known from stone paper, elephant shitpaper, regular Oh, dung?
Yeah.
It's out of Thailand.
(05:59):
Okay.
Which I had a friends, a couple friends a bunchof years ago had invested in some elephant
dung, and they were making paper with it.
Okay.
So, you know, that and huts.
You can make a hut with a dung as well ifyou're in Africa.
Yeah.
But, so with the paper, so, you know, alwayslike new things.
So where does it come?
Well, I'll come and ask you a couple questionsand then I'll just stop and you can answer them
(06:22):
all.
Like, when did you get into it and where didyou find it?
Where does it come from and what do you use itfor?
Yeah.
So Royal actually invested in a weed sheetyears ago and they just found that it wasn't
actually enough for them on sustainabilityconsiderations.
(06:43):
There's a lot more details around that that I'mnot really familiar with.
But when they did start getting into the sugarsheet, they found that it was just a true
representation of what sustainability reallymeans.
You're using something that's already beingcreated anyways.
Sugarcane is quick to grow so you're not havingto wait decades for something to become viable
(07:07):
to use, which was great.
And the stocks that we purchase are, you know,all your typical print stocks.
So you have your coated, uncoated, text andcover weights.
We have a natural as well.
And we use it for the majority of the printingthat we do.
Our staple.
That's all sugar grade for coated, uncoated,for Yep.
(07:30):
No trees.
I guess I guess you're not gonna tell us whereyou get it because then everyone can.
Let me ask you a question.
Just Do you have a deal with whoever that ifother printers that weren't competing with you
in the same market wanted it, can come to youto get it?
I believe we are exclusive in Canada.
We don't offer it for sale to other printerscurrently.
(07:53):
But, you know, if any other printer wanted tobuy out some work here, I don't think we'd be
opposed to that.
Cool.
Would you sell the raw material to a printer onthe East Coast maybe?
That's not a me question.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
For the That's for the owners to answer.
Right.
Okay.
Well, just figured if you were helped to sellthe paper, you made more paper, you get a
(08:16):
better price, you make some money off the otherperson.
Why not?
Right?
And how do you market that, or do you?
So one thing that Royal is working on right nowis building a more structured marketing
campaign.
We haven't done a ton of overt sales andmarketing.
(08:40):
We've just been a company that is here,reliable to its customers, contract work,
repeat work, that sort of thing.
And so some of the conversations we've beenhaving lately are they've just been around how
much we could actually grow our business byactively selling and marketing what we have.
(09:00):
So I'd say those are in very early stages.
But we just did our rebrand in November.
And we did a really awesome marketing video togo with that, which is on our website.
I think it's pretty cool.
We're all very proud of it.
And so hopefully more to come like that.
(09:20):
I'm cheating.
I'm watching the video.
Are you?
No.
I just put it on.
There's no sound.
There's no sound.
Well, gotta have the sound.
No.
Well, I know, I'm talking to you in theheadphones, but I'm I'm I'm actually I'll just
compliment you.
The place looks rather nice and clean.
Is it like that all the time or is it like thatbecause of the video?
(09:41):
I try.
I think most of my staff know that I'm not afan of unnecessary mess or clutter.
So we've got a pretty lean crew right now andthey do a pretty good job of doing maintenance
and cleanup and stuff like that.
So they keep their areas pretty clean.
(10:01):
No.
It's good.
I I used to have it that, like, every Mondaymorning was maintenance day.
All the presses went down, everything to beclean.
I even wanted it at one point to have everybodyworking in the plant to wear white so that when
people would come in, it would look almostpharma like.
Yeah.
Right?
And then it would hopefully give everyone theimpression that we were really good and
conscientious of everything.
(10:22):
And they have a lot of companies in Europe orGermany where they're kind of dressed in white,
but I don't think white goes well in NorthAmerica in the printing industry or the people
that work in it.
They're like, No, not happening.
Lasts for about five seconds.
Yeah, but for a short period, I thought thatwas pretty cool.
I mean, I loved having people come into theplant and giving plant tours and I couldn't
(10:46):
show or talk enough about print and the processto people who have no idea.
Yeah.
Because I always felt when you Well, actually Ithink about it like this.
You know, someone mentions a car to you thatyou've never seen, a Volkswagen, a new
Volkswagen, whatever, Jetta.
And then all of a sudden you see it on theroad, and then every day after that, you
(11:07):
see it.
See it everywhere, yeah.
Right?
It's like, how many cars did they sell?
So I kind of think the same way with print.
Yeah.
I talk enough to people who don't know enoughabout print or don't think about print because
it's not their priority.
If I talk enough about it, if I point stuff outto them, then I'm hoping every day they're
going to think something print.
Yeah.
That's awesome.
(11:27):
Think we need more of that.
We have a program.
PrintForward has a program called PELT.
It's a print entry level training, and we'rejust about to go into our fifth cohort.
It's fully government funded.
And one of the I guess last year, our reps withthe government, the gentleman that manages the
(11:52):
program, and also our reps, so the one thatdeals with me on the day to day, they wanted to
come to Royal and sit down with some of our keystakeholders and previous students of the
program.
And they came in and they were so excited afterthis meeting.
They're like, we had no idea.
(12:12):
We didn't know print was an essential service.
We didn't know print was so big.
And it's like, yeah, that's the problem.
That's the problem.
So, you know, with the program, we're trying toutilize that to get people more excited and
interested in print as a career, even if theydidn't necessarily feel like they have the
(12:36):
skills for it.
Or, you know, rather than everybody filteringthrough the graphic design field, we wanted to
open up something that would introduce them toevery single area of print and just give them a
little bit of a taste of each thing.
And in Ontario, they're actually wanting toadopt the program there as well.
(12:57):
So OPIA has decided that they want to pick itup and start doing it in Ontario.
And we hope that it spreads across theprovinces until we can manage to do something
bigger, which, you know, is definitely on myradar.
And if I keep going over the next twenty yearsthe way I have the last five years, I think
(13:20):
we'll be able to achieve something pretty good.
So I don't have twenty years left just becauseI wanna go fishing.
But I would offer up my time and to help inanything that you guys do or create to promote
print.
Awesome.
Part of my reason for doing the podcastPrinting's Alive and why I changed the name of
(13:40):
it to be like the book and the original movie.
Maybe a sequel is gonna come, maybe not.
But a for branding purposes because everyoneknows printing's alive.
But you know, I I kind of feel like a lot ofpeople don't.
Everyone says Prince dead.
When they say Prince dead, they're thinking ofthis, they're thinking of stationary, they're
(14:02):
thinking of business cards, even though there'splenty of business cards being printed.
If you speak to Vista print, that's one oftheir main specialties.
Newspapers, Like, so when when they say printsdead, those are the things that have kind of
went away.
Stationery,
newspapers We're saying because
and and sorry, and some magazines.
We print so much of that here, and yet, youknow, we've got newspapers showing up on our
(14:27):
doorstep every single day.
And I think I think people can say whateverthey want.
But, you know, if you ask Kelly Malazi, we needto stop saying that, and we need to stop giving
those people any kind of credit because theydon't know what they're talking about.
Well, that's why printing's alive, right?
(14:47):
It's my quest to go out there and to pushpeople and to remind people about print.
You know, when I think print, I say it all thetime.
Number one, the world cannot function withoutprint.
Correct.
Everyone could say what they want, but theworld goes nowhere.
(15:07):
Trump will not be able to adjust his tariffsbecause you gotta send out a notice.
If you're not printing, you can't send out thenotice, right?
And then if there was no print, how would he doall of his executive orders?
But all kidding aside, aside from that, printis one of the largest industries out there.
And everybody wakes up, or I would likeeveryone to wake up.
(15:28):
The minute you wake up, I'd like you to thinkprint, okay?
You crawl in, you crawl, you wake up, firstthing you do is you look over on your night
table and you probably have books stacked.
Books you haven't read even, so things to do.
You go into the bathroom and all your productsare in packaging and papers.
If you're taking medication, the instructionsheets are on the instruction sheets.
I just made a double, whatever, error there,but you print the instruction sheets.
(15:51):
You go in the kitchen, your food andeverything, there's packages, instructions.
Leave your house, your car, there's this.
On the way to the hospital, street signage,this signage, that sign, everything everywhere.
So it's not possible to say print's dead.
People who say print's dead, you're morons.
And I don't wanna insult you, but if I am, toobad.
Right?
Yeah.
We have more trees growing now than we ever hadin in areas.
(16:14):
Mhmm.
Right?
So yeah, so no, print is not dead.
And actually, I think if I'm correct, andpeople can correct me if I'm not because they
always do, but I think it was like the techcompanies that started print is dead way back
when the whole online thing was started.
Right?
Like an Apple and a Microsoft.
Yeah.
In the meantime, for all those guys sayingprint is dead, I remember AOL sent out more
(16:36):
disc cassettes to get you to join than I'veever seen even at a music store.
What are those, Warren?
Oh, those are going back in the old days.
And, hang on.
I have a desk in the other room where thedrawer where I keep, you know, relics.
Play a floppy disk?
Floppy disks and side quests and, all thoseother things.
(16:56):
Yeah.
So, yeah, no, print is not dead.
As a matter of fact, sign you know, signage ishuge.
Mhmm.
Labels is huge.
Mhmm.
Big market now, direct to fabric, printedapparel.
Yeah.
Right?
Direct to to to garment, the fabric,promotional items.
It's all printed.
Everything's printed.
It's You
(17:17):
know, we're we're very proud of our labeldivision here, and we're excited, you know, to
see how Royal is going to continue to evolveover the next few years as we get new equipment
and start to maximize the space we have.
We've got a couple of buildings kind ofsandwiched together in this nice little
property.
It looks tiny from the outside, but then youcome in and you just it's this labyrinth of,
(17:41):
you know, space where we can do printmanufacturing.
So it's pretty exciting.
I joined the team at a really cool time andjust really curious and anxious and also not
wanting to hurry the process, you know, justwant to enjoy the process.
But we got a lot to do.
(18:04):
No, it's Listen, I love print.
I think it's great, you know?
And if the companies are in good positions,I'll say financially and human resource wise,
there's nothing better than investigating a newproject or buying some new equipment.
Yeah.
And putting it out there.
I always wanna stress though, to every printowner, to everyone in a company, if you're
(18:28):
looking at new equipment, if you're buying newequipment, it is so exciting.
It is so much fun.
I used to love it.
Couple mistakes that I made back then, learnedthe hard way.
You really need to evaluate what you're doing.
You really need to make sure that youunderstand what you're doing, that you
understand what the machine costs.
No.
I mean, what it really costs after it's in yourdoor.
(18:50):
Right?
I think that's a huge mistake that people make,making sure that you have the right people to
manage it and run it.
Do you have the customers that are gonna useit?
You cannot build it and they will come anymore.
Yeah.
Times have really changed from that for sure.
Right, but how excited are the people when youtell them that you're doing something new or
(19:11):
you're bringing in new Yeah.
You know, we've got some stuff on the horizonhere.
And, you know, we're just waiting for somethings to finalize.
And then we can properly share with our teamand with the world what's going on.
But there's a lot of work to be done in themeantime.
And a big part of that, especially with, youknow, this being my first couple of years here,
(19:36):
is just focusing on, you know, getting thingsto where they're at my baseline, right?
So however things were done before, okay,great.
But this is how I like things.
And we have staff here that are very good atwhat they do and have a lot of pride in what
they do.
So when someone like me comes along who'sreally supportive in them, like, oh, you need
(20:00):
this?
Okay, sure.
Oh, you need that?
Okay, great.
Oh, you need an hour to do maintenance?
Yes, please take it.
Because I've been in those environments whereyou just push, push, push, push, push, and
everything kind of falls apart.
And then you're down for three days because youdidn't, you know, take the time ahead of time,
so to speak.
So we've got a really good environment here.
(20:23):
We've got a good culture.
We've got people who and this is one thingabout the industry that I love more than
anything is we have a lot of people here whoare willing to teach.
You know, one of the biggest, like when Istarted in the industry back in 02/2005, I was
(20:44):
working for my dad at a print shop in WhiteRock.
And I didn't know anything, like nothing.
And even though I grew up in it, so to speak, Ihad seen the big web presses at Quebecor or
McLean Hunter when I was little, you know, andmy dad had shown me some little, you know,
(21:05):
registration marks on a newspaper and explainedthat to me, but that was it.
So when I came in, had no knowledge onsubstrates.
I had no knowledge on the different styles ofprinting, offset, digital, that kind of stuff.
I had no knowledge of anything.
And all of a sudden, I started meeting peoplein the industry that, you know, have been
(21:28):
around for a long time are still around, youknow, a couple have retired, but they would
just come in and, oh, you're new.
And it was like, And you know, I could ask anyquestion that I wanted and they would just talk
to me as long as I needed and tell meeverything that I needed.
And I learned so much in the first, I'll sayten years, because there's a lot to learn.
(21:54):
And, you know, in this industry, you don'tlearn anything overnight.
And not unless you made a mistake.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I remember one company I made a it was about a$10,000 mistake.
And the owner said, wow, that sucks.
What did you learn from it?
And I was like, you're not going to make me paythat.
(22:16):
He said, is the cost of doing business and itis what it is.
I was You're
not allowed to make you pay.
Yeah.
Like, I remember just feeling so terrified, andhe said, I bet you you'll never make that
mistake again.
Couldn't even tell you what it is now, but
It doesn't matter.
I love that about the guy, and I don't evenknow him because us two had big mistakes,
(22:41):
$10.20, $40,000 mistakes.
I don't wanna think about too many of them.
Yeah.
But really, what do you say to anybody otherthan, like, what did you learn?
I hope you learned, And you're looking out.
And that's the cost of learning, unfortunately.
Know?
Owners who flip out on people probably don'tkeep the people that long.
Yeah.
(23:01):
Definitely.
So, yeah, built lots of relationships that youknow, I still work with sometimes daily in the
industry today.
Being a part of Print Forward has been probablyone of the most fulfilling parts of my career
and getting to build relationships with peopleat other companies.
(23:22):
Because if you're not a part of theassociation, what happens is you tend to be in
your organization and that's it.
You're sheltered, right?
You don't get to experience a lot.
You don't get to learn a lot.
You just learn whatever's right in front ofyou.
So I'm biting my tongue.
I know.
Because you're, no, no, no.
(23:44):
You're killing me because you're saying all thegood stuff.
Yeah.
Right?
All the good stuff, the associations.
I speak with so many of them and so many ofthem have some good members and so many of them
could use more members.
Good members.
All members.
I was always a member of every association.
(24:05):
Right?
Only because I was looking for travel and to goto as many meetings as possible.
But I was a member of every association.
I was a member of peer groups.
I made sure to surround myself wherever therewas people smarter than me, better than me,
even older than me.
Yeah.
Because I wanted to learn from them now.
Yeah.
Right?
And I think there's a lot of companies with alot of older owners, older than me.
(24:32):
Yeah.
I say that with a smile.
But for all those old owners, old companiesthat aren't members of associations because you
think you know better, why don't you join?
But not for you.
Join for your employees.
Join so that you could introduce them to theassociations.
Give them the websites.
Give them the passwords.
Let them sign up for the newsletters, get themin the juice of what's happening in the
(24:54):
industry.
I always wanted to give out subscriptions tomagazines and leave them in the lobby and let
people see things.
Mhmm.
Because when you get stuck into your day to dayand the and the the the blinders are on, you
don't know.
When you know what's going on in the industry,when you see things or, you know, if you're an
owner listening, send a couple people to alocal show if you have to.
Encourage them to go.
(25:15):
I just, I don't think, you know, you got me onthis tiring rant now.
Like I don't think we do enough to promoteprint.
I don't think
we promote enough print within ourorganizations.
I don't think we promote the importance ofprint, right?
A lot of old owners on their company websiteshave printing presses and old equipment.
Get rid of it, okay?
Because young people are looking, that's notwhat they wanna see.
(25:37):
They wanna see the faces in your company.
They wanna read about the solutions.
They wanna know how you're gonna help them.
Yeah.
You really have to change up the messaging as awhole, you know, for the most part.
You're in a niche, you're doing something, goodluck, keep it, go and do.
Most niches don't last forever anyways.
But wow, but the associations, great.
(26:00):
The people in the company, what's the agegroup?
It varies.
We have some people, maybe like five or six orseven or eight, maybe about a quarter of our
staff are 50.
(26:20):
And then everyone else is 50.
We might have a few in the mid to late 20s.
Oh, cool.
So it ranges for sure, and we all have variouslevels.
I'm looking away because I'm literally lookingat our office staff right now.
(26:42):
But we have different levels of experience.
We all come from different places within theindustry, outside of the industry.
And I think what we tend to focus on more hereis not so much what the person brings
experience wise, but what they bring inpersonality and drive, willingness to learn
(27:03):
personality, you know, do they fit the culturethat we really want to have here, which is very
much a supportive team player solution focusedculture.
Wow.
That's pretty cool.
Very cool.
Sounds like I wanna come work for your company.
I don't know if I can handle that kind ofenergy every day, Warren.
(27:26):
You know what?
I don't know if I can't handle my energy everyday, if you wanna be honest.
So you've been in you've been in the industryfor many years, as you said.
We don't we don't I don't have to go back onthe numbers.
You're in a pretty serious position now kindarunning the company and operations.
Yeah.
As a woman in a in a what was an old maledominated industry Mhmm.
(27:52):
Boys club, How is it for you?
How was it?
And how did it start?
Maybe I should answer it in a different order.
How did it start?
How was it?
And how is it today?
If you could look back and, you know, compare alittle bit.
I don't know if there were probably some likemultiple contributing factors that maybe made
(28:19):
things a little bit easier for me than I thinkit has been for some women.
Number one, when I started, I started workingfor my dad who is very protective, but he was
also very good at just coaching me and tellingme what to look out for.
And from day one told me, Don't take any shitfrom these guys.
(28:44):
Just don't.
And so I've had, yeah, that was probably thebest advice he ever gave me.
And I struggled for a period of time where Iand this probably goes back to childhood stuff,
but I struggled for a period of time where Iwasn't feeling heard.
(29:07):
And so I was pushing extra hard.
I was one of those, I hate to say it, but I wasone of those women that was like extra just to
compensate.
And I'm very grateful for the work that I didto get beyond that so that I could learn when
to just shut up, when to ask questions, andwhen is a good time to put my opinion into the
(29:28):
conversation.
And I think there's so much more strength inthat, and I feel a lot more respect from, you
know, my peers and colleagues and suppliers andcustomers, because I'm not arguing just for the
sake of arguing.
You know, I really want the person on the otherend of the conversation to feel heard and
(29:48):
supported.
And if I have a point that needs to be made,I'll make the point and do everything that I
can to kind of guide that person to gettingthere with me.
You know, it's not about ramming my point downanybody's throat.
But I think with the relationships that I builtearly on with some of the more veteran people
(30:11):
in the industry, I'll say veteran, not old.
Ancient, olders.
Yeah, they didn't shelter me.
They protected me.
They looked out for me.
They stood up for me.
And, you know, I was really truly grateful forthat.
But if you were to ask them, they would tellyou that I earned it 100%.
(30:34):
And just being kind and being respectful toeverybody and treating everyone like a human
being goes a long way.
And I've had my fair share of fights withcustomers and it happens.
We learn from it.
And sometimes you just get somebody who's anasshole and there's nothing you can do about
(30:54):
it.
Hopefully customers learn from the fightsometimes.
Right?
I would hope so.
But I think a big part of it is there werecompanies that I worked at where basically
every company that I worked at, aside from mydad, and I say this with love, I think it was
(31:17):
hard for my parents to see my potential becausethey were my parents, right?
And so they were putting a lot of like, Oh, youneed to do this, you need to do this, you need
to do this.
And they weren't really paying attention to whoI was as a person.
It's not their fault.
I think it literally is just because they're myparents and they see me as their little baby
(31:38):
who, you know, just doesn't know anything inthe world, right?
You're way too nice.
Love my Either
like you had a good life or you had a reallygood therapist because you're saying all the
good stuff, right?
By the way, we all are good therapists.
Lauren, I became a therapist, and I'm not evenlying.
(31:58):
That's how much therapy I've had.
But essentially, every employer that I was withafter that, you know, I was the type of person
I'd go in at the bottom just answering thephones.
And then very quickly, I would get as far up inthe company as I could because, you know, I'd
like to take on responsibility.
I wasn't afraid to ask questions or makedecisions and make mistakes.
(32:21):
And I'm very much a person who wants everythingto be done right.
And, you know, not make mistakes over and overand over again.
We make a mistake once, okay, I'm going to askeverybody questions to figure out why the hell
this happened, and then it's it's not going tohappen again.
And so I've had a very natural progression inmy career as far as the types of jobs that I
(32:45):
was doing.
And so coming here just seemed like a reallygood fit.
And it was borderline.
I was prepared, I wasn't prepared.
I'm just like, you know what?
I just got to trust in myself and trust thatI'll have good And I did.
And I can't really say other than the oddperson here or there that might mansplain
(33:08):
something to me or, you know, over explainsomething that it's like, okay, you know what?
I'm just going to listen because clearly youneed to hear your own voice right now and we'll
be done with this conversation soon.
So having patience has gotten me through a lotof it.
Oh, for sure.
Remember going to someone's office and they hada no mansplaining plaque on the wall when you
(33:32):
walked in.
Was a women it was an office filled with justwomen.
Yeah.
You know?
It was probably the only office I ever wentinto, I was like
don't know how you Sign language.
It was sign language.
It was like, my god, we need get out of here.
Oh my gosh.
But but it yeah.
But it no.
But it's good.
But you know what?
Honestly, you're like a breath of fresh air.
(33:54):
Thank you.
Because you you you you've even with thetherapy stuff, we all have therapists.
No.
But you you you seem to have, like, whateveryou've been through and you've seen and you
learnt, you've done, just the way you'retalking about it is just so au naturale and
it's just flowing and you're not even thinkingtwice.
And I just know from when your people havenormal conversations, it's really what they
believe.
(34:14):
There's no, Right?
It's not pre pre thought out in advance andalmost I'm not gonna say perfect.
Nothing's imperfect, but it sounds pretty damngood.
You know, the course.
And I'm sure in the in the line, there's been alot of bleeps up and down.
Yeah.
But I think for people listening, it's almost,I'll just say it's encouraging to know that as
(34:36):
you go through life and there's so much shitgoing on in life and stress and whatever, that
you can come out when you prioritize yourthings, you know, in the order you want to
live, that
we sound like you.
I honestly think that it's important for theyounger generation to know that, you know, take
care of yourself.
(34:57):
You know, that there's nobody likes a martyr.
And as much as I might put myself last attimes, I'm definitely going to make up for it
the next day.
You know, if I'm putting in a lot of long hoursor something, I'm going to take a couple
afternoons and go home early.
The most important thing is that peoplerecognize we all have opportunities to make
(35:19):
something really special out of our career.
You have to make sure you're in the rightplace.
If you're not in a place where you feelsupported and seen by your leadership, get out.
Just go find something else.
Yeah.
So I'm gonna I'm gonna touch on something.
I forget the I'm trying to remember theperson's name.
It's a Vancouver fella.
I don't even wanna look it up, but I think it'sDavid Skidmore, Skidmore.
(35:44):
He created, he started at one-eight hundred IGOT JUNK.
Okay.
I don't remember his name and now that I'mdoing this, it's awful, but I'm going, I'm
typing in here on the computer founderone-eight hundred got junk.
Only because I really don't want to, I don'twanna Brian Scudamore, I knew it.
(36:04):
I didn't wanna, you know Have the wrong name.
Yeah, I just wanna give him the credit that Iwanna give him.
So I remember when you talk about people, Iremember seeing him at a, I believe it was an
entrepreneur organization event because I alsoused to belong to different organizations with
business people to learn.
And he was in there and he was talking about, Ifound it really interesting.
(36:27):
He was talking about the employees you have,and he was talking about knowing who doesn't
belong in your company.
Yeah.
And he was talking about, if you know that andyou don't do anything and you leave them there,
you're doing like a double injustice.
Yeah.
First, first, you are doing an injustice forthat person.
(36:49):
Yep.
Because if you keep someone there who's not inthat good for that position, you're holding
them back for expanding their life and growing.
Then at the same time, if you keep them, you'reyou're hurting company life because it's not
the right person.
And when he was talking about that, I was kindalike, oh my god, oh my god.
(37:11):
You You start putting yourself in thosethoughts and you start remembering.
And then he told a story which actually was apretty amazing story, and I'll repeat it for
what I can remember, maybe leave out some ofthe little details.
But he basically he had a this was anothertopic I could talk with people.
He had a mentor.
Mhmm.
And one day he's talking to his mentor.
He's talking about some people.
(37:32):
And the mentor asked him a question about somepeople and people that belong or don't belong,
and he brought up this person's name.
And they had the conversation, and he said toBrian, okay.
Now that we're talking about it, when are yougonna let him go?
Mhmm.
And Brian, you know, was if I remembercorrectly again, was like, well, maybe on a
it's this is Monday now.
(37:53):
Right?
Thursday, Friday.
You know, Fridays aren't good to let people go.
Mondays aren't good to let people go.
And his mentor was like, well, what abouttomorrow?
Yeah.
And Brian was like, well, tomorrow.
Right?
Because we'll do that.
Right?
Yeah.
And he he had to commit to his mentor to do it.
(38:13):
And when the next day came about and he calledthe fella into the office and they sat down and
they were having a conversation.
And I don't remember the whole conversation,but the long and short of the conversation was
Brian was telling him that he had to let himgo, that he wasn't the right person for the
company.
And by keeping him, you know, that it wasn'tthe right thing for him.
(38:37):
And the fellow said to him, you know, I've beenstressing for a long time because I know I
wasn't the right person and I was waiting forthe foot to come down and knock me out.
Yeah.
And Brian was taken aback because he neverthought about it that way.
The employee was taken aback from theconversation with Brian.
(38:59):
He mentioned that like they had a cry festtogether because it was an emotional moment.
And then Brian actually went on to being amentor of his.
And that guy went on to build a really coolbusiness.
Yeah.
Right?
And I just remember the fact that this couldhave been ten years ago, twelve years ago, I
don't even give or take, but it stuck out in myhead like that, about how we are responsible
(39:24):
for people that work for us in more ways thanwe could imagine.
Yeah.
And that how we should be thinking about themand their growth in, you know, where they go
and what they do.
I had someone working for me for five, sixyears, seven years, and three or four times he
came to me to leave some to go somewhere else,and I talked him out of it.
(39:45):
But I actually talked him out of it not becauseI needed him.
I did.
But I talked him out of it because I reallydidn't believe that it was the right job for
him Yeah.
Knowing him.
And then the sixth time he came to me overwhatever, I'm like, dude, you gotta take that
job.
I will never ever ever get you there.
(40:05):
I can't.
I'm actually jealous that you're going.
I said, because I'm stuck here.
Yeah.
You know?
Being an owner really makes you a prisoner tooat the same time.
I mean, there's a lot of perks, but the theprison side of things is a little tougher.
And he he went off to to do what he's doing,and I'm watching him as he's, you know, went
from what he was doing to what he's doing, andI can't smile.
(40:27):
I almost feel like I have a kid out there who'sgrown up.
Yeah.
And and I feel really good about the hold back.
Again, not for the company, but more for him.
And then the and then the let go.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Right?
Well, and I I think a lot of people don'tnecessarily see themselves in accurate lights,
(40:48):
right?
We have our insecurities, we have our limitingbeliefs and all that stuff.
And that's where some of my mentors have donethe most impact for me is they've told me how
they see me.
And eventually I started to believe them.
And that's when my confidence really started tobuild.
And like what you just said, the only reason Ididn't stay on and take over the family
(41:12):
business, so to speak, I didn't feel that I wasgrowing in the way that I felt I should be
growing.
It didn't feel in alignment.
I felt very stuck.
I felt very boxed in.
And even though I left to go work at somethingoutside of print, I came back to it when my dad
sold the company because the people that hadbought it had left another company and created
(41:37):
an opening there.
And I've had other companies reach out and askif I was interested in buying.
And I'm just like, no, no, not in your life.
Because as much as I love this industry, and Ilove my career path and everything else, it's
(41:58):
always a choice.
And I want it to remain a choice.
I don't ever want to feel like I am stuck againbecause a feeling.
Yeah, Terrible feeling.
Listen, I have ownership mentality.
I will run this company as if it's my own.
But at the end of the day, when I walk out thatdoor, I can let it all go and leave it behind
because it's not mine.
(42:18):
Yeah, no, listen, ownership is not foreveryone.
If it was for everyone, there'd be no employeesat companies, right?
Totally.
You have to have a thick lined stomach to be anowner.
And it doesn't matter what level, what sizeyou're at, because it's all relative to you and
(42:41):
the size you're at and what you're doing.
And when your line of credit is maxed out at300 or 3,000,000, it's the same sick feeling in
your stomach.
Yeah.
Right?
And there's a lot to take and hats off to allthe entrepreneurs and owners who do it out
there and hats off to everyone else who doesit.
Yeah.
Really what I think is great and you know, Ithink people could actually learn from you and
(43:04):
everything that you've kind of been saying.
I have people working for me too, like owners,right?
Happy not to sign a check, happy not to dealwith HR, happy not to worry about it in future
investment.
Yeah.
But happy to be in charge and happy to telleveryone where they work and proud of it.
Yeah.
I think it honestly makes me a better leaderbecause I know what my threshold is.
(43:28):
I know what my limitations are.
What, you know, level of comfort I can operatewithin without having to go and get permission
or things like that.
And so that level of autonomy allows me to justreally focus on the support of the staff and
not worry so much about the big picture things.
(43:49):
Everything that I'm doing contributes to bigpicture.
But when you can really just focus on what isright in front of you and just get it done, I
feel like there's a lot more freedom in that.
Well, it's kind of like think big, act small.
Mhmm.
Right?
So you take care of all the different areas,the people, and the company, and do it the
right way.
And on the outside, everyone's impression isthat you're doing, you know, you're doing it
(44:13):
the right way, and they don't have to knowwhat's going on on the inside.
Yeah.
But that's the best way.
And so what would you say, like, the culture inthe company?
Most people, like it's a loaded question, butmost people like each They don't.
They're happy to hang together.
I've seen so seen so many, and I'm askingbecause I've seen so many different companies
where they are together or people come
(44:35):
in and
do their thing and then they can't wait to getout and don't talk.
I'd say we very much are like church and state.
So I think outside of work, we don't really getinvolved with each other too much.
And I've seen it happen the other way as well.
And I think it just depends on the people,right?
(44:56):
And I think because we have such a variance inages and lifestyles, we have people who are
parents, not parents, different stages ofparenting.
It makes it hard for us to be able to socializeoutside of work.
But within the company, I think we all getalong really well.
We all know some aspects of our personal life.
(45:19):
I'm definitely an oversharer, so I'm surepeople know lots of things about me.
That's from the therapy session.
Yeah.
It's a good way to connect with your staff.
But yeah, I think overall, we're verysupportive, right?
And we all just want the company to do well.
(45:39):
We're all similar mindsets of like, you know,this needs to be done right.
And, you know, communication, I think, could bebetter in certain areas, but it's way better
here than, you know, what I've seen in otherplaces industry.
It's pretty cool.
And so let me ask you the two owners, thebrother and the sister, the sister and the
(46:02):
brother.
I don't want anyone to be offended.
I don't know who's older, who's younger.
I know.
Me and my brother, well, it's always the olderone first, me.
Right?
How are they?
Like, let me do it's it's I'm I'm asking, like,families.
But as two people as they're running thebusiness, they get along.
They're good.
The people below them are good.
Because I've seen a lot of family businesswhere it's not so enjoyable to work, Yeah.
(46:26):
I'm laughing because they are siblings, youknow, and sometimes that comes out.
But they grew up in this company and so theyhave the awareness.
It's not like nepotism where they just come inand daddy's like, Here you go.
(46:46):
They've earned their place in ownership hereand they are very hyper focused on all of the
details.
Like I can go to them about absolutely anythingand have a really great conversation.
We can figure out a plan on how to moveforward.
They are just genuinely really good humanbeings.
(47:10):
And I know what else to say.
It is the first time I've had bosses that areyounger than me, but it doesn't feel like that.
A lot of the time, they're very mature.
How much younger?
So what are they, 17?
I mean,
you don't look that they're in their mid-30s.
So I'm in my early 40s and it's very, theyalmost feel like my siblings sometimes, but
(47:38):
it's just like, it's a give and take, right?
Like they support me and I try to support themjust as much because I have to remember that
they brought me in for a specific reason,right?
And a big part of that is my experience.
And so I'm not afraid to say things thatsometimes need to be said.
And there's just a lot of trust and a reallygood rapport between the three of us.
(48:06):
I'll say four because our IT director who isconsidered upper management as well, we meet
every week, Tuesday afternoons, and it justblows my mind how much shit we get done every
week.
I think we're a pretty cool dream team.
I was just sitting here and I'm just thinkinglike, oh my god, I think I wanna work in that
company.
Because you make everything sound so I'm notsaying not perfect.
(48:30):
It makes you It's not perfect.
No, my God.
Nothing's perfect.
No, but you make it sound from a that it wouldyou make it sound like it's like the right
cultural environment because everybody's doingthe right thing.
Yeah.
Right?
It's healthy.
Family, family, not family, caring, concerned,helping, teaching, sharing.
(48:51):
Yeah.
Really, that's like what life's about.
I mean, I started a bunch of years ago.
Okay.
Maybe not that many years ago.
Just how could I make life simpler?
How could I argue with less people?
Doesn't mean I'm starting the argument.
I'm just saying either other people.
How do we just dial everything down a little?
Because really, we're all on this planet forthe same reason.
(49:12):
Right?
Like, one is to be born and the other is todie.
But in between, right, it's how long are wegonna live?
We wanna live a good life.
We wanna live a comfortable life.
Comfortable life meaning not money, but notbeing sick, being healthy, doing things,
getting some experiences, and then making somemoney.
And I'm kind of saying like, Oh my God, I wannado everything as best I can.
I wanna minimize my misery and aggravation.
(49:35):
It doesn't matter where it is.
Work, home, friends.
I think what a lot of people don't get is life,literally life's purpose is the human
experience.
If we start doing things isolation and pushinghumans away and creating conflict, there's no
(49:55):
right way or wrong way to live.
Yeah, there's a wrong way to live.
Don't be a dick and don't push the people awaythat are trying to create this human
experience.
Because when you actually care about the peoplethat you're engaging with, and if they care
about you, life is 10 times easier, a hundredtimes more enjoyable, and everybody's just in a
(50:19):
better place.
You know, whenever shit goes down, there's allthese cliches that come out and no one wants to
hear them, but they're all pretty true.
But the simple one that I really like to liveby and preach all the time, even I say it to
myself, even when I rage a little becausesomebody sets me off is really you treat people
(50:40):
the way you wanna be treated.
Yeah.
Right?
And if you believe in karma and things goaround, come around, it will.
Now, for me, it never comes around as fast as Iwant it to.
But I still feel better knowing I'm treatingmost people with kindness in the way that I
(51:01):
want to be treated.
I just find I go through life.
When I figured that out a while ago, I just gothrough life just a little easier with less
complexity.
Because you're not always stepping to get outof your way.
The other thing in life that I learned, whichwas a pretty big experience is to wear smaller
(51:21):
shoes because they're easier to take out ofyour mouth when they get stuck.
Right?
It's a, I wear ladies shoes now, but
Oh my God.
Sometimes my brain keeps moving and my mouthisn't fast enough to close the lips to stop it.
Yeah, yeah.
So the fast action thing is just the shoe inthe mouth and then people get the picture.
(51:45):
Yeah.
But it's but it's great.
Wow.
All all I could say is what an enlighteningconversation and thank you.
No.
Because usually, I don't leave these I don'thave these conversations with a lot of people.
I'm gonna look for more people like you becausethe other conversations are not so fun.
Aw, thank Well, there's no negativity here.
There's no talking.
Was pretty much all upbeat.
(52:06):
Yeah.
And we're gonna talk again on this, but that isexactly the way everyone should be to some
degree, I think to help move our industryforward in the right direction with young
people, with women.
I won't go into any other diversities becausethere's big issues out there in the world.
(52:29):
So I won't piss anybody off.
There's a lot of them.
Yeah, especially with diversity.
But I wanna piss anybody off.
And at the end of the day, if we all cutourselves, I don't even need to use pronouns or
genders or any of that.
I do it this way.
When we cut ourselves, we all bleed red, we'rehumans.
Yeah.
And I think we need to go back to being humanfirst and then go in the other direction you
(52:52):
wanna go on.
Yeah.
Like you gotta be nice to everybody else.
That's right.
Right?
I agree.
That's the end of it.
So I'm gonna call this a wrap, but we can go onand we will go on because there's so many notes
that I made and I don't usually make notes, butI won't show you in case you could read them.
My writing is kind of like mother said shouldhave been a doctor because I scribble and I
(53:12):
probably won't be able to read them after.
But before we go and I cut you, anything youwant anybody listening to know that you didn't
already tell them?
That I haven't already said?
No.
You can say it again if you want.
It was all good.
Yeah.
Honestly, just like that cliche, live your bestlife.
(53:33):
Honestly, just pay attention.
Pay attention to what makes you feel good, whatdoesn't make you feel good, and do something
about it.
Know?
We tend to stick in certain situations thatcreate fear and anxiety and all these other
things.
Think about why, why are you doing that?
I actually just, quick story, I was not happydoing a certain role at a company that I was
(53:57):
in, and I thought, you know what, screw it.
I will live off my credit card for a month if Ihave to.
I have enough faith in myself that I will findsomething.
I cannot do this role another moment.
It makes me literally just want to die.
And just had that faith in myself and faith inthe universe, as they say, I don't know how
(54:31):
long I might have been doing that and thenstruggling with anxiety and depression and
going on antidepressants and doing all theseunnecessary things because I was afraid to
believe in myself.
So I'd say if anyone is struggling and likefeels stuck and doesn't know what to do, call
me, call Warren.
We'll help you figure it out.
(54:53):
You call me, you're paying.
You call me, you're paying because I invest inmy Oh, do it free with up.
Five minutes.
Yeah, it's not the fifty minute session, right?
No.
But yeah, but no, it's so true.
Know what?
I mean, we're gonna, I'm gonna go on, but Ifind myself even talking with people I know
don't always, if I could give, if I could sharea life experience where I hurt at one point,
(55:15):
because everything's hurt pain and then Yeah.
Oh my God, it's always so good.
I mean, listen, I'll just touch I had a, andI've said in the past, but I lost my business
in 2019 after twenty seven years of building itand losing And even that's a, it was a shit
story how it happened and a president and apartner and a whatever, leave that go.
But right after that, sixty days after thatended mother died, sixty days after that
(55:39):
mother-in-law passed.
I'm gonna take the summer off and just chillafter twenty seven years and some motherfucker
stole my ranger boat and trailer.
That was the worst thing that happened to me in2019.
They stole my boat and trailer.
Then I'm gonna do Warren two point zero, COVIDrolls in.
Yeah.
And we go into lockdown.
Girl, I'm with eight years, she decides toleave.
So I had eighteen months of getting beat up.
(56:00):
Ex wife who, I hate the word ex because we'regreat together, more like brother sister, but
she recommends it amazing.
Well no, we're like, because we parent ourkids.
Yeah.
We speak every day and there's nothing elseother than Yeah.
Yeah, no, no, we're like best friends.
Actually great.
And she recommended a life coach who to thisday I'm still using.
(56:21):
Yeah.
And I'll just tell you, because you said theword belief, But the first thing that I learnt
was, our thoughts become our beliefs, ourbeliefs become our habits.
Yeah.
And then our habits become our actions.
Yep.
So whenever you're starting off and there'ssomething in your head, you just have to ask
yourself, is that true?
Right.
If it's not true, move on to something else.
Yep.
And wasn't easy, even though I just said itreal quickly in a minute, wasn't But once I got
(56:47):
the hang of it, my stress level became 67%better.
That question, what do I know to be true?
Is life changing, very life changing.
Because you can have that conversation withyourself.
We all know.
We all know the truth.
We just don't think about it naturally becausewe're human and trauma just kind of takes on a
(57:12):
life of its Right.
Our brain is there to cause us trauma.
That's right.
That's right.
So asking the question, what do I know to betrue?
Is definitely like that hand that just pullsyou out of the the shit, so to speak.
So I recommend it to anybody.
Absolutely.
So you can call Jennifer for free advice.
(57:33):
You can call me for paid advice.
It'd be my pleasure to help you.
And I go full sixty minutes, not fifty minuteslike a therapist, because I'm not a trained
therapist.
And I want you to have your money's worth.
Anyways, all the, it's all good, it's all real,and all kidding aside, I really, I just have to
say thank you to you because everything yousaid was like, felt from the heart was true.
(57:57):
Just, made, you warned me and you made me smilebecause it's just- Thanks Warren.
You can't disguise real.
Yeah.
Right?
Definitely.
Thank who's listening, and I hope you got thisfar where you just heard me thank Jennifer for
coming on, you know, I'd like to know what youthought about the episode.
And I always again appreciate you listening.
(58:19):
If anybody has anyone that wants, knows anyonethat wants to be on, if you wanna be on, if
you've got something great to talk about, ifyou don't wanna be on, but you have a great
topic, always reach out to me.
I am always happy to talk to everybody.
So I will sign off with Warren Werbitt,printing's alive and I love print.
See you next time.
Thanks, Jennifer.
(58:39):
Thank you.
Hey, all.
We're back with another edition of Printing'sAlive, where we talk everything print.
So today, we have a guest, special guest,always a special guest.
Anyone who comes on my podcast is special.
We have Jennifer McConnell from Royal Out West.
How are you, Jennifer?
I'm good, Warren.
How are you?
(00:29):
Great.
Thanks.
So Royal is the new name, but they were knownfor or since 1932 as Royal Printers.
Nothing to do with the Queen or The UK, justlike the name Royal.
I will tell you that from what I know, Royal isa fourth generation printing company, which I
think is pretty awesome today, because I don'tknow that they go that run that far and deep.
(00:51):
And we have two of the siblings running it,brother and sister.
So I'm just gonna turn to you, Jennifer.
And what do you
wanna tell me about Royal?
You know, I've been in the industry, just hitmy twenty year anniversary, and I've been with
Royal now for a little bit over a year.
(01:12):
And I haven't worked at a ton of companies inthe industry.
I'd say four or five really good ones if I hadto give my opinion on that.
But Royal has definitely been something else.
It's the first place that I've been able towork at and feel like I'm really in my element
(01:32):
and doing the things that I'm meant to do.
And so I feel very seen by our President andVice President, Bryce and Chelsea Gieshin.
They seemed to see something in me that maybeothers couldn't.
And so I just feel like coming in here everyday isn't like coming to work.
(01:54):
It's just coming to my other family, as cheesyas that sounds.
But yeah, I love working here.
They're a great family.
They're very supportive and very decent, humblehuman beings.
So, oh my God, I almost wanna cry.
No, in nice way.
(02:16):
Yeah.
Number one, just to hear everything you saidabout you and, you know, being seen and feeling
good about that, because everyone should beseen, everyone should feel good everywhere they
work.
And it's not so cheesy when you say the familything because the reality is we all spend more
time, it doesn't matter what industry, businessyou're in, but you always end up spending,
unless you're working from home, but you end upspending more time working with the people at
(02:40):
work.
So to feel like they're a family is amazing.
When I had my company and we were, you know, alot of people strong, nothing made me happier
than just seeing everybody and working togetherand everyone getting along and feeling family
and you know, the partying afterwards, becauseit just can't all be work and no play.
But that's really what makes it great whenpeople wanna go to work, because people that go
(03:03):
to work are looking out for the people at workand what's going on, right?
Where do your best ideas come from?
The people at work.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Collaboration.
When feel part of the team.
So that's really good.
What does Royal specialize in or what standsout at Royal?
Why should anybody want to, sorry, why shouldanyone want to look at Royal, aside from the
(03:26):
color purple on the website, which
is awesome.
Because I'm here.
Are
End podcast, end of podcast.
We've done it all.
That's great.
We're a commodity printer.
So we do a lot of your really
I the word commodity.
I know, but it is what we are.
(03:47):
And so we're the necessity, right?
I've worked at companies where they're doing alot of really high end, fancy boutique work and
stuff like that.
And that was really exciting and reallychallenging, but it's hard to get a lot of
those projects.
(04:07):
And so sometimes, you'd be working on oneproject for six months and I'm the type of
person that likes to complete things.
And so when something takes six months tocomplete, it can get a little stressful for me.
So, you know, we do a lot of your stationery,laser checks, business forms, that sort of
(04:28):
thing.
But we do a lot of book printing here as well.
I think what makes us stand out more thananyone else in the industry, especially in
Canada, is that we're the only Canadian printerusing the commercial grade of our sugar sheet.
So it's completely tree free.
It's made from the gas, which is a byproduct ofthe sugar refinement process from sugarcane.
(04:54):
And so we focus a lot of our sustainabilityaround how many trees are saved, CO2 not
emitted from processing trees, bringing trees,hauling them around the country on trucks.
We bring our paper up by ship.
So it's pretty interesting to see and weprovide our customers data on all that if they
(05:18):
want to have that as a part of theirsustainability plan as well.
Is the sheet edible?
Can you put it I
mean, I think all paper is edible.
I've definitely eaten my fair share of paper.
Sometimes you just it's the only way to shutup, you know?
Just put some paper in your mouth and stop theconversation.
(05:39):
Absolutely.
With environmentally good ink.
Yep.
So okay.
So I I personally don't know from sugar gradepaper.
Mhmm.
I've known from stone paper, elephant shitpaper, regular Oh, dung?
Yeah.
It's out of Thailand.
(05:59):
Okay.
Which I had a friends, a couple friends a bunchof years ago had invested in some elephant
dung, and they were making paper with it.
Okay.
So, you know, that and huts.
You can make a hut with a dung as well ifyou're in Africa.
Yeah.
But, so with the paper, so, you know, alwayslike new things.
So where does it come?
Well, I'll come and ask you a couple questionsand then I'll just stop and you can answer them
(06:22):
all.
Like, when did you get into it and where didyou find it?
Where does it come from and what do you use itfor?
Yeah.
So Royal actually invested in a weed sheetyears ago and they just found that it wasn't
actually enough for them on sustainabilityconsiderations.
(06:43):
There's a lot more details around that that I'mnot really familiar with.
But when they did start getting into the sugarsheet, they found that it was just a true
representation of what sustainability reallymeans.
You're using something that's already beingcreated anyways.
Sugarcane is quick to grow so you're not havingto wait decades for something to become viable
(07:07):
to use, which was great.
And the stocks that we purchase are, you know,all your typical print stocks.
So you have your coated, uncoated, text andcover weights.
We have a natural as well.
And we use it for the majority of the printingthat we do.
Our staple.
That's all sugar grade for coated, uncoated,for Yep.
(07:30):
No trees.
I guess I guess you're not gonna tell us whereyou get it because then everyone can.
Let me ask you a question.
Just Do you have a deal with whoever that ifother printers that weren't competing with you
in the same market wanted it, can come to youto get it?
I believe we are exclusive in Canada.
We don't offer it for sale to other printerscurrently.
(07:53):
But, you know, if any other printer wanted tobuy out some work here, I don't think we'd be
opposed to that.
Cool.
Would you sell the raw material to a printer onthe East Coast maybe?
That's not a me question.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
For the That's for the owners to answer.
Right.
Okay.
Well, just figured if you were helped to sellthe paper, you made more paper, you get a
(08:16):
better price, you make some money off the otherperson.
Why not?
Right?
And how do you market that, or do you?
So one thing that Royal is working on right nowis building a more structured marketing
campaign.
We haven't done a ton of overt sales andmarketing.
(08:40):
We've just been a company that is here,reliable to its customers, contract work,
repeat work, that sort of thing.
And so some of the conversations we've beenhaving lately are they've just been around how
much we could actually grow our business byactively selling and marketing what we have.
(09:00):
So I'd say those are in very early stages.
But we just did our rebrand in November.
And we did a really awesome marketing video togo with that, which is on our website.
I think it's pretty cool.
We're all very proud of it.
And so hopefully more to come like that.
(09:20):
I'm cheating.
I'm watching the video.
Are you?
No.
I just put it on.
There's no sound.
There's no sound.
Well, gotta have the sound.
No.
Well, I know, I'm talking to you in theheadphones, but I'm I'm I'm actually I'll just
compliment you.
The place looks rather nice and clean.
Is it like that all the time or is it like thatbecause of the video?
(09:41):
I try.
I think most of my staff know that I'm not afan of unnecessary mess or clutter.
So we've got a pretty lean crew right now andthey do a pretty good job of doing maintenance
and cleanup and stuff like that.
So they keep their areas pretty clean.
(10:01):
No.
It's good.
I I used to have it that, like, every Mondaymorning was maintenance day.
All the presses went down, everything to beclean.
I even wanted it at one point to have everybodyworking in the plant to wear white so that when
people would come in, it would look almostpharma like.
Yeah.
Right?
And then it would hopefully give everyone theimpression that we were really good and
conscientious of everything.
(10:22):
And they have a lot of companies in Europe orGermany where they're kind of dressed in white,
but I don't think white goes well in NorthAmerica in the printing industry or the people
that work in it.
They're like, No, not happening.
Lasts for about five seconds.
Yeah, but for a short period, I thought thatwas pretty cool.
I mean, I loved having people come into theplant and giving plant tours and I couldn't
(10:46):
show or talk enough about print and the processto people who have no idea.
Yeah.
Because I always felt when you Well, actually Ithink about it like this.
You know, someone mentions a car to you thatyou've never seen, a Volkswagen, a new
Volkswagen, whatever, Jetta.
And then all of a sudden you see it on theroad, and then every day after that, you
(11:07):
see it.
See it everywhere, yeah.
Right?
It's like, how many cars did they sell?
So I kind of think the same way with print.
Yeah.
I talk enough to people who don't know enoughabout print or don't think about print because
it's not their priority.
If I talk enough about it, if I point stuff outto them, then I'm hoping every day they're
going to think something print.
Yeah.
That's awesome.
(11:27):
Think we need more of that.
We have a program.
PrintForward has a program called PELT.
It's a print entry level training, and we'rejust about to go into our fifth cohort.
It's fully government funded.
And one of the I guess last year, our reps withthe government, the gentleman that manages the
(11:52):
program, and also our reps, so the one thatdeals with me on the day to day, they wanted to
come to Royal and sit down with some of our keystakeholders and previous students of the
program.
And they came in and they were so excited afterthis meeting.
They're like, we had no idea.
(12:12):
We didn't know print was an essential service.
We didn't know print was so big.
And it's like, yeah, that's the problem.
That's the problem.
So, you know, with the program, we're trying toutilize that to get people more excited and
interested in print as a career, even if theydidn't necessarily feel like they have the
(12:36):
skills for it.
Or, you know, rather than everybody filteringthrough the graphic design field, we wanted to
open up something that would introduce them toevery single area of print and just give them a
little bit of a taste of each thing.
And in Ontario, they're actually wanting toadopt the program there as well.
(12:57):
So OPIA has decided that they want to pick itup and start doing it in Ontario.
And we hope that it spreads across theprovinces until we can manage to do something
bigger, which, you know, is definitely on myradar.
And if I keep going over the next twenty yearsthe way I have the last five years, I think
(13:20):
we'll be able to achieve something pretty good.
So I don't have twenty years left just becauseI wanna go fishing.
But I would offer up my time and to help inanything that you guys do or create to promote
print.
Awesome.
Part of my reason for doing the podcastPrinting's Alive and why I changed the name of
(13:40):
it to be like the book and the original movie.
Maybe a sequel is gonna come, maybe not.
But a for branding purposes because everyoneknows printing's alive.
But you know, I I kind of feel like a lot ofpeople don't.
Everyone says Prince dead.
When they say Prince dead, they're thinking ofthis, they're thinking of stationary, they're
(14:02):
thinking of business cards, even though there'splenty of business cards being printed.
If you speak to Vista print, that's one oftheir main specialties.
Newspapers, Like, so when when they say printsdead, those are the things that have kind of
went away.
Stationery,
newspapers We're saying because
and and sorry, and some magazines.
We print so much of that here, and yet, youknow, we've got newspapers showing up on our
(14:27):
doorstep every single day.
And I think I think people can say whateverthey want.
But, you know, if you ask Kelly Malazi, we needto stop saying that, and we need to stop giving
those people any kind of credit because theydon't know what they're talking about.
Well, that's why printing's alive, right?
(14:47):
It's my quest to go out there and to pushpeople and to remind people about print.
You know, when I think print, I say it all thetime.
Number one, the world cannot function withoutprint.
Correct.
Everyone could say what they want, but theworld goes nowhere.
(15:07):
Trump will not be able to adjust his tariffsbecause you gotta send out a notice.
If you're not printing, you can't send out thenotice, right?
And then if there was no print, how would he doall of his executive orders?
But all kidding aside, aside from that, printis one of the largest industries out there.
And everybody wakes up, or I would likeeveryone to wake up.
(15:28):
The minute you wake up, I'd like you to thinkprint, okay?
You crawl in, you crawl, you wake up, firstthing you do is you look over on your night
table and you probably have books stacked.
Books you haven't read even, so things to do.
You go into the bathroom and all your productsare in packaging and papers.
If you're taking medication, the instructionsheets are on the instruction sheets.
I just made a double, whatever, error there,but you print the instruction sheets.
(15:51):
You go in the kitchen, your food andeverything, there's packages, instructions.
Leave your house, your car, there's this.
On the way to the hospital, street signage,this signage, that sign, everything everywhere.
So it's not possible to say print's dead.
People who say print's dead, you're morons.
And I don't wanna insult you, but if I am, toobad.
Right?
Yeah.
We have more trees growing now than we ever hadin in areas.
(16:14):
Mhmm.
Right?
So yeah, so no, print is not dead.
And actually, I think if I'm correct, andpeople can correct me if I'm not because they
always do, but I think it was like the techcompanies that started print is dead way back
when the whole online thing was started.
Right?
Like an Apple and a Microsoft.
Yeah.
In the meantime, for all those guys sayingprint is dead, I remember AOL sent out more
(16:36):
disc cassettes to get you to join than I'veever seen even at a music store.
What are those, Warren?
Oh, those are going back in the old days.
And, hang on.
I have a desk in the other room where thedrawer where I keep, you know, relics.
Play a floppy disk?
Floppy disks and side quests and, all thoseother things.
(16:56):
Yeah.
So, yeah, no, print is not dead.
As a matter of fact, sign you know, signage ishuge.
Mhmm.
Labels is huge.
Mhmm.
Big market now, direct to fabric, printedapparel.
Yeah.
Right?
Direct to to to garment, the fabric,promotional items.
It's all printed.
Everything's printed.
It's You
(17:17):
know, we're we're very proud of our labeldivision here, and we're excited, you know, to
see how Royal is going to continue to evolveover the next few years as we get new equipment
and start to maximize the space we have.
We've got a couple of buildings kind ofsandwiched together in this nice little
property.
It looks tiny from the outside, but then youcome in and you just it's this labyrinth of,
(17:41):
you know, space where we can do printmanufacturing.
So it's pretty exciting.
I joined the team at a really cool time andjust really curious and anxious and also not
wanting to hurry the process, you know, justwant to enjoy the process.
But we got a lot to do.
(18:04):
No, it's Listen, I love print.
I think it's great, you know?
And if the companies are in good positions,I'll say financially and human resource wise,
there's nothing better than investigating a newproject or buying some new equipment.
Yeah.
And putting it out there.
I always wanna stress though, to every printowner, to everyone in a company, if you're
(18:28):
looking at new equipment, if you're buying newequipment, it is so exciting.
It is so much fun.
I used to love it.
Couple mistakes that I made back then, learnedthe hard way.
You really need to evaluate what you're doing.
You really need to make sure that youunderstand what you're doing, that you
understand what the machine costs.
No.
I mean, what it really costs after it's in yourdoor.
(18:50):
Right?
I think that's a huge mistake that people make,making sure that you have the right people to
manage it and run it.
Do you have the customers that are gonna useit?
You cannot build it and they will come anymore.
Yeah.
Times have really changed from that for sure.
Right, but how excited are the people when youtell them that you're doing something new or
(19:11):
you're bringing in new Yeah.
You know, we've got some stuff on the horizonhere.
And, you know, we're just waiting for somethings to finalize.
And then we can properly share with our teamand with the world what's going on.
But there's a lot of work to be done in themeantime.
And a big part of that, especially with, youknow, this being my first couple of years here,
(19:36):
is just focusing on, you know, getting thingsto where they're at my baseline, right?
So however things were done before, okay,great.
But this is how I like things.
And we have staff here that are very good atwhat they do and have a lot of pride in what
they do.
So when someone like me comes along who'sreally supportive in them, like, oh, you need
(20:00):
this?
Okay, sure.
Oh, you need that?
Okay, great.
Oh, you need an hour to do maintenance?
Yes, please take it.
Because I've been in those environments whereyou just push, push, push, push, push, and
everything kind of falls apart.
And then you're down for three days because youdidn't, you know, take the time ahead of time,
so to speak.
So we've got a really good environment here.
(20:23):
We've got a good culture.
We've got people who and this is one thingabout the industry that I love more than
anything is we have a lot of people here whoare willing to teach.
You know, one of the biggest, like when Istarted in the industry back in 02/2005, I was
(20:44):
working for my dad at a print shop in WhiteRock.
And I didn't know anything, like nothing.
And even though I grew up in it, so to speak, Ihad seen the big web presses at Quebecor or
McLean Hunter when I was little, you know, andmy dad had shown me some little, you know,
(21:05):
registration marks on a newspaper and explainedthat to me, but that was it.
So when I came in, had no knowledge onsubstrates.
I had no knowledge on the different styles ofprinting, offset, digital, that kind of stuff.
I had no knowledge of anything.
And all of a sudden, I started meeting peoplein the industry that, you know, have been
(21:28):
around for a long time are still around, youknow, a couple have retired, but they would
just come in and, oh, you're new.
And it was like, And you know, I could ask anyquestion that I wanted and they would just talk
to me as long as I needed and tell meeverything that I needed.
And I learned so much in the first, I'll sayten years, because there's a lot to learn.
(21:54):
And, you know, in this industry, you don'tlearn anything overnight.
And not unless you made a mistake.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I remember one company I made a it was about a$10,000 mistake.
And the owner said, wow, that sucks.
What did you learn from it?
And I was like, you're not going to make me paythat.
(22:16):
He said, is the cost of doing business and itis what it is.
I was You're
not allowed to make you pay.
Yeah.
Like, I remember just feeling so terrified, andhe said, I bet you you'll never make that
mistake again.
Couldn't even tell you what it is now, but
It doesn't matter.
I love that about the guy, and I don't evenknow him because us two had big mistakes,
(22:41):
$10.20, $40,000 mistakes.
I don't wanna think about too many of them.
Yeah.
But really, what do you say to anybody otherthan, like, what did you learn?
I hope you learned, And you're looking out.
And that's the cost of learning, unfortunately.
Know?
Owners who flip out on people probably don'tkeep the people that long.
Yeah.
(23:01):
Definitely.
So, yeah, built lots of relationships that youknow, I still work with sometimes daily in the
industry today.
Being a part of Print Forward has been probablyone of the most fulfilling parts of my career
and getting to build relationships with peopleat other companies.
(23:22):
Because if you're not a part of theassociation, what happens is you tend to be in
your organization and that's it.
You're sheltered, right?
You don't get to experience a lot.
You don't get to learn a lot.
You just learn whatever's right in front ofyou.
So I'm biting my tongue.
I know.
Because you're, no, no, no.
(23:44):
You're killing me because you're saying all thegood stuff.
Yeah.
Right?
All the good stuff, the associations.
I speak with so many of them and so many ofthem have some good members and so many of them
could use more members.
Good members.
All members.
I was always a member of every association.
(24:05):
Right?
Only because I was looking for travel and to goto as many meetings as possible.
But I was a member of every association.
I was a member of peer groups.
I made sure to surround myself wherever therewas people smarter than me, better than me,
even older than me.
Yeah.
Because I wanted to learn from them now.
Yeah.
Right?
And I think there's a lot of companies with alot of older owners, older than me.
(24:32):
Yeah.
I say that with a smile.
But for all those old owners, old companiesthat aren't members of associations because you
think you know better, why don't you join?
But not for you.
Join for your employees.
Join so that you could introduce them to theassociations.
Give them the websites.
Give them the passwords.
Let them sign up for the newsletters, get themin the juice of what's happening in the
(24:54):
industry.
I always wanted to give out subscriptions tomagazines and leave them in the lobby and let
people see things.
Mhmm.
Because when you get stuck into your day to dayand the and the the the blinders are on, you
don't know.
When you know what's going on in the industry,when you see things or, you know, if you're an
owner listening, send a couple people to alocal show if you have to.
Encourage them to go.
(25:15):
I just, I don't think, you know, you got me onthis tiring rant now.
Like I don't think we do enough to promoteprint.
I don't think
we promote enough print within ourorganizations.
I don't think we promote the importance ofprint, right?
A lot of old owners on their company websiteshave printing presses and old equipment.
Get rid of it, okay?
Because young people are looking, that's notwhat they wanna see.
(25:37):
They wanna see the faces in your company.
They wanna read about the solutions.
They wanna know how you're gonna help them.
Yeah.
You really have to change up the messaging as awhole, you know, for the most part.
You're in a niche, you're doing something, goodluck, keep it, go and do.
Most niches don't last forever anyways.
But wow, but the associations, great.
(26:00):
The people in the company, what's the agegroup?
It varies.
We have some people, maybe like five or six orseven or eight, maybe about a quarter of our
staff are 50.
(26:20):
And then everyone else is 50.
We might have a few in the mid to late 20s.
Oh, cool.
So it ranges for sure, and we all have variouslevels.
I'm looking away because I'm literally lookingat our office staff right now.
(26:42):
But we have different levels of experience.
We all come from different places within theindustry, outside of the industry.
And I think what we tend to focus on more hereis not so much what the person brings
experience wise, but what they bring inpersonality and drive, willingness to learn
(27:03):
personality, you know, do they fit the culturethat we really want to have here, which is very
much a supportive team player solution focusedculture.
Wow.
That's pretty cool.
Very cool.
Sounds like I wanna come work for your company.
I don't know if I can handle that kind ofenergy every day, Warren.
(27:26):
You know what?
I don't know if I can't handle my energy everyday, if you wanna be honest.
So you've been in you've been in the industryfor many years, as you said.
We don't we don't I don't have to go back onthe numbers.
You're in a pretty serious position now kindarunning the company and operations.
Yeah.
As a woman in a in a what was an old maledominated industry Mhmm.
(27:52):
Boys club, How is it for you?
How was it?
And how did it start?
Maybe I should answer it in a different order.
How did it start?
How was it?
And how is it today?
If you could look back and, you know, compare alittle bit.
I don't know if there were probably some likemultiple contributing factors that maybe made
(28:19):
things a little bit easier for me than I thinkit has been for some women.
Number one, when I started, I started workingfor my dad who is very protective, but he was
also very good at just coaching me and tellingme what to look out for.
And from day one told me, Don't take any shitfrom these guys.
(28:44):
Just don't.
And so I've had, yeah, that was probably thebest advice he ever gave me.
And I struggled for a period of time where Iand this probably goes back to childhood stuff,
but I struggled for a period of time where Iwasn't feeling heard.
(29:07):
And so I was pushing extra hard.
I was one of those, I hate to say it, but I wasone of those women that was like extra just to
compensate.
And I'm very grateful for the work that I didto get beyond that so that I could learn when
to just shut up, when to ask questions, andwhen is a good time to put my opinion into the
(29:28):
conversation.
And I think there's so much more strength inthat, and I feel a lot more respect from, you
know, my peers and colleagues and suppliers andcustomers, because I'm not arguing just for the
sake of arguing.
You know, I really want the person on the otherend of the conversation to feel heard and
(29:48):
supported.
And if I have a point that needs to be made,I'll make the point and do everything that I
can to kind of guide that person to gettingthere with me.
You know, it's not about ramming my point downanybody's throat.
But I think with the relationships that I builtearly on with some of the more veteran people
(30:11):
in the industry, I'll say veteran, not old.
Ancient, olders.
Yeah, they didn't shelter me.
They protected me.
They looked out for me.
They stood up for me.
And, you know, I was really truly grateful forthat.
But if you were to ask them, they would tellyou that I earned it 100%.
(30:34):
And just being kind and being respectful toeverybody and treating everyone like a human
being goes a long way.
And I've had my fair share of fights withcustomers and it happens.
We learn from it.
And sometimes you just get somebody who's anasshole and there's nothing you can do about
(30:54):
it.
Hopefully customers learn from the fightsometimes.
Right?
I would hope so.
But I think a big part of it is there werecompanies that I worked at where basically
every company that I worked at, aside from mydad, and I say this with love, I think it was
(31:17):
hard for my parents to see my potential becausethey were my parents, right?
And so they were putting a lot of like, Oh, youneed to do this, you need to do this, you need
to do this.
And they weren't really paying attention to whoI was as a person.
It's not their fault.
I think it literally is just because they're myparents and they see me as their little baby
(31:38):
who, you know, just doesn't know anything inthe world, right?
You're way too nice.
Love my Either
like you had a good life or you had a reallygood therapist because you're saying all the
good stuff, right?
By the way, we all are good therapists.
Lauren, I became a therapist, and I'm not evenlying.
(31:58):
That's how much therapy I've had.
But essentially, every employer that I was withafter that, you know, I was the type of person
I'd go in at the bottom just answering thephones.
And then very quickly, I would get as far up inthe company as I could because, you know, I'd
like to take on responsibility.
I wasn't afraid to ask questions or makedecisions and make mistakes.
(32:21):
And I'm very much a person who wants everythingto be done right.
And, you know, not make mistakes over and overand over again.
We make a mistake once, okay, I'm going to askeverybody questions to figure out why the hell
this happened, and then it's it's not going tohappen again.
And so I've had a very natural progression inmy career as far as the types of jobs that I
(32:45):
was doing.
And so coming here just seemed like a reallygood fit.
And it was borderline.
I was prepared, I wasn't prepared.
I'm just like, you know what?
I just got to trust in myself and trust thatI'll have good And I did.
And I can't really say other than the oddperson here or there that might mansplain
(33:08):
something to me or, you know, over explainsomething that it's like, okay, you know what?
I'm just going to listen because clearly youneed to hear your own voice right now and we'll
be done with this conversation soon.
So having patience has gotten me through a lotof it.
Oh, for sure.
Remember going to someone's office and they hada no mansplaining plaque on the wall when you
(33:32):
walked in.
Was a women it was an office filled with justwomen.
Yeah.
You know?
It was probably the only office I ever wentinto, I was like
don't know how you Sign language.
It was sign language.
It was like, my god, we need get out of here.
Oh my gosh.
But but it yeah.
But it no.
But it's good.
But you know what?
Honestly, you're like a breath of fresh air.
(33:54):
Thank you.
Because you you you you've even with thetherapy stuff, we all have therapists.
No.
But you you you seem to have, like, whateveryou've been through and you've seen and you
learnt, you've done, just the way you'retalking about it is just so au naturale and
it's just flowing and you're not even thinkingtwice.
And I just know from when your people havenormal conversations, it's really what they
believe.
(34:14):
There's no, Right?
It's not pre pre thought out in advance andalmost I'm not gonna say perfect.
Nothing's imperfect, but it sounds pretty damngood.
You know, the course.
And I'm sure in the in the line, there's been alot of bleeps up and down.
Yeah.
But I think for people listening, it's almost,I'll just say it's encouraging to know that as
(34:36):
you go through life and there's so much shitgoing on in life and stress and whatever, that
you can come out when you prioritize yourthings, you know, in the order you want to
live, that
we sound like you.
I honestly think that it's important for theyounger generation to know that, you know, take
care of yourself.
(34:57):
You know, that there's nobody likes a martyr.
And as much as I might put myself last attimes, I'm definitely going to make up for it
the next day.
You know, if I'm putting in a lot of long hoursor something, I'm going to take a couple
afternoons and go home early.
The most important thing is that peoplerecognize we all have opportunities to make
(35:19):
something really special out of our career.
You have to make sure you're in the rightplace.
If you're not in a place where you feelsupported and seen by your leadership, get out.
Just go find something else.
Yeah.
So I'm gonna I'm gonna touch on something.
I forget the I'm trying to remember theperson's name.
It's a Vancouver fella.
I don't even wanna look it up, but I think it'sDavid Skidmore, Skidmore.
(35:44):
He created, he started at one-eight hundred IGOT JUNK.
Okay.
I don't remember his name and now that I'mdoing this, it's awful, but I'm going, I'm
typing in here on the computer founderone-eight hundred got junk.
Only because I really don't want to, I don'twanna Brian Scudamore, I knew it.
(36:04):
I didn't wanna, you know Have the wrong name.
Yeah, I just wanna give him the credit that Iwanna give him.
So I remember when you talk about people, Iremember seeing him at a, I believe it was an
entrepreneur organization event because I alsoused to belong to different organizations with
business people to learn.
And he was in there and he was talking about, Ifound it really interesting.
(36:27):
He was talking about the employees you have,and he was talking about knowing who doesn't
belong in your company.
Yeah.
And he was talking about, if you know that andyou don't do anything and you leave them there,
you're doing like a double injustice.
Yeah.
First, first, you are doing an injustice forthat person.
(36:49):
Yep.
Because if you keep someone there who's not inthat good for that position, you're holding
them back for expanding their life and growing.
Then at the same time, if you keep them, you'reyou're hurting company life because it's not
the right person.
And when he was talking about that, I was kindalike, oh my god, oh my god.
(37:11):
You You start putting yourself in thosethoughts and you start remembering.
And then he told a story which actually was apretty amazing story, and I'll repeat it for
what I can remember, maybe leave out some ofthe little details.
But he basically he had a this was anothertopic I could talk with people.
He had a mentor.
Mhmm.
And one day he's talking to his mentor.
He's talking about some people.
(37:32):
And the mentor asked him a question about somepeople and people that belong or don't belong,
and he brought up this person's name.
And they had the conversation, and he said toBrian, okay.
Now that we're talking about it, when are yougonna let him go?
Mhmm.
And Brian, you know, was if I remembercorrectly again, was like, well, maybe on a
it's this is Monday now.
(37:53):
Right?
Thursday, Friday.
You know, Fridays aren't good to let people go.
Mondays aren't good to let people go.
And his mentor was like, well, what abouttomorrow?
Yeah.
And Brian was like, well, tomorrow.
Right?
Because we'll do that.
Right?
Yeah.
And he he had to commit to his mentor to do it.
(38:13):
And when the next day came about and he calledthe fella into the office and they sat down and
they were having a conversation.
And I don't remember the whole conversation,but the long and short of the conversation was
Brian was telling him that he had to let himgo, that he wasn't the right person for the
company.
And by keeping him, you know, that it wasn'tthe right thing for him.
(38:37):
And the fellow said to him, you know, I've beenstressing for a long time because I know I
wasn't the right person and I was waiting forthe foot to come down and knock me out.
Yeah.
And Brian was taken aback because he neverthought about it that way.
The employee was taken aback from theconversation with Brian.
(38:59):
He mentioned that like they had a cry festtogether because it was an emotional moment.
And then Brian actually went on to being amentor of his.
And that guy went on to build a really coolbusiness.
Yeah.
Right?
And I just remember the fact that this couldhave been ten years ago, twelve years ago, I
don't even give or take, but it stuck out in myhead like that, about how we are responsible
(39:24):
for people that work for us in more ways thanwe could imagine.
Yeah.
And that how we should be thinking about themand their growth in, you know, where they go
and what they do.
I had someone working for me for five, sixyears, seven years, and three or four times he
came to me to leave some to go somewhere else,and I talked him out of it.
(39:45):
But I actually talked him out of it not becauseI needed him.
I did.
But I talked him out of it because I reallydidn't believe that it was the right job for
him Yeah.
Knowing him.
And then the sixth time he came to me overwhatever, I'm like, dude, you gotta take that
job.
I will never ever ever get you there.
(40:05):
I can't.
I'm actually jealous that you're going.
I said, because I'm stuck here.
Yeah.
You know?
Being an owner really makes you a prisoner tooat the same time.
I mean, there's a lot of perks, but the theprison side of things is a little tougher.
And he he went off to to do what he's doing,and I'm watching him as he's, you know, went
from what he was doing to what he's doing, andI can't smile.
(40:27):
I almost feel like I have a kid out there who'sgrown up.
Yeah.
And and I feel really good about the hold back.
Again, not for the company, but more for him.
And then the and then the let go.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Right?
Well, and I I think a lot of people don'tnecessarily see themselves in accurate lights,
(40:48):
right?
We have our insecurities, we have our limitingbeliefs and all that stuff.
And that's where some of my mentors have donethe most impact for me is they've told me how
they see me.
And eventually I started to believe them.
And that's when my confidence really started tobuild.
And like what you just said, the only reason Ididn't stay on and take over the family
(41:12):
business, so to speak, I didn't feel that I wasgrowing in the way that I felt I should be
growing.
It didn't feel in alignment.
I felt very stuck.
I felt very boxed in.
And even though I left to go work at somethingoutside of print, I came back to it when my dad
sold the company because the people that hadbought it had left another company and created
(41:37):
an opening there.
And I've had other companies reach out and askif I was interested in buying.
And I'm just like, no, no, not in your life.
Because as much as I love this industry, and Ilove my career path and everything else, it's
(41:58):
always a choice.
And I want it to remain a choice.
I don't ever want to feel like I am stuck againbecause a feeling.
Yeah, Terrible feeling.
Listen, I have ownership mentality.
I will run this company as if it's my own.
But at the end of the day, when I walk out thatdoor, I can let it all go and leave it behind
because it's not mine.
(42:18):
Yeah, no, listen, ownership is not foreveryone.
If it was for everyone, there'd be no employeesat companies, right?
Totally.
You have to have a thick lined stomach to be anowner.
And it doesn't matter what level, what sizeyou're at, because it's all relative to you and
(42:41):
the size you're at and what you're doing.
And when your line of credit is maxed out at300 or 3,000,000, it's the same sick feeling in
your stomach.
Yeah.
Right?
And there's a lot to take and hats off to allthe entrepreneurs and owners who do it out
there and hats off to everyone else who doesit.
Yeah.
Really what I think is great and you know, Ithink people could actually learn from you and
(43:04):
everything that you've kind of been saying.
I have people working for me too, like owners,right?
Happy not to sign a check, happy not to dealwith HR, happy not to worry about it in future
investment.
Yeah.
But happy to be in charge and happy to telleveryone where they work and proud of it.
Yeah.
I think it honestly makes me a better leaderbecause I know what my threshold is.
(43:28):
I know what my limitations are.
What, you know, level of comfort I can operatewithin without having to go and get permission
or things like that.
And so that level of autonomy allows me to justreally focus on the support of the staff and
not worry so much about the big picture things.
(43:49):
Everything that I'm doing contributes to bigpicture.
But when you can really just focus on what isright in front of you and just get it done, I
feel like there's a lot more freedom in that.
Well, it's kind of like think big, act small.
Mhmm.
Right?
So you take care of all the different areas,the people, and the company, and do it the
right way.
And on the outside, everyone's impression isthat you're doing, you know, you're doing it
(44:13):
the right way, and they don't have to knowwhat's going on on the inside.
Yeah.
But that's the best way.
And so what would you say, like, the culture inthe company?
Most people, like it's a loaded question, butmost people like each They don't.
They're happy to hang together.
I've seen so seen so many, and I'm askingbecause I've seen so many different companies
where they are together or people come
(44:35):
in and
do their thing and then they can't wait to getout and don't talk.
I'd say we very much are like church and state.
So I think outside of work, we don't really getinvolved with each other too much.
And I've seen it happen the other way as well.
And I think it just depends on the people,right?
(44:56):
And I think because we have such a variance inages and lifestyles, we have people who are
parents, not parents, different stages ofparenting.
It makes it hard for us to be able to socializeoutside of work.
But within the company, I think we all getalong really well.
We all know some aspects of our personal life.
(45:19):
I'm definitely an oversharer, so I'm surepeople know lots of things about me.
That's from the therapy session.
Yeah.
It's a good way to connect with your staff.
But yeah, I think overall, we're verysupportive, right?
And we all just want the company to do well.
(45:39):
We're all similar mindsets of like, you know,this needs to be done right.
And, you know, communication, I think, could bebetter in certain areas, but it's way better
here than, you know, what I've seen in otherplaces industry.
It's pretty cool.
And so let me ask you the two owners, thebrother and the sister, the sister and the
(46:02):
brother.
I don't want anyone to be offended.
I don't know who's older, who's younger.
I know.
Me and my brother, well, it's always the olderone first, me.
Right?
How are they?
Like, let me do it's it's I'm I'm asking, like,families.
But as two people as they're running thebusiness, they get along.
They're good.
The people below them are good.
Because I've seen a lot of family businesswhere it's not so enjoyable to work, Yeah.
(46:26):
I'm laughing because they are siblings, youknow, and sometimes that comes out.
But they grew up in this company and so theyhave the awareness.
It's not like nepotism where they just come inand daddy's like, Here you go.
(46:46):
They've earned their place in ownership hereand they are very hyper focused on all of the
details.
Like I can go to them about absolutely anythingand have a really great conversation.
We can figure out a plan on how to moveforward.
They are just genuinely really good humanbeings.
(47:10):
And I know what else to say.
It is the first time I've had bosses that areyounger than me, but it doesn't feel like that.
A lot of the time, they're very mature.
How much younger?
So what are they, 17?
I mean,
you don't look that they're in their mid-30s.
So I'm in my early 40s and it's very, theyalmost feel like my siblings sometimes, but
(47:38):
it's just like, it's a give and take, right?
Like they support me and I try to support themjust as much because I have to remember that
they brought me in for a specific reason,right?
And a big part of that is my experience.
And so I'm not afraid to say things thatsometimes need to be said.
And there's just a lot of trust and a reallygood rapport between the three of us.
(48:06):
I'll say four because our IT director who isconsidered upper management as well, we meet
every week, Tuesday afternoons, and it justblows my mind how much shit we get done every
week.
I think we're a pretty cool dream team.
I was just sitting here and I'm just thinkinglike, oh my god, I think I wanna work in that
company.
Because you make everything sound so I'm notsaying not perfect.
(48:30):
It makes you It's not perfect.
No, my God.
Nothing's perfect.
No, but you make it sound from a that it wouldyou make it sound like it's like the right
cultural environment because everybody's doingthe right thing.
Yeah.
Right?
It's healthy.
Family, family, not family, caring, concerned,helping, teaching, sharing.
(48:51):
Yeah.
Really, that's like what life's about.
I mean, I started a bunch of years ago.
Okay.
Maybe not that many years ago.
Just how could I make life simpler?
How could I argue with less people?
Doesn't mean I'm starting the argument.
I'm just saying either other people.
How do we just dial everything down a little?
Because really, we're all on this planet forthe same reason.
(49:12):
Right?
Like, one is to be born and the other is todie.
But in between, right, it's how long are wegonna live?
We wanna live a good life.
We wanna live a comfortable life.
Comfortable life meaning not money, but notbeing sick, being healthy, doing things,
getting some experiences, and then making somemoney.
And I'm kind of saying like, Oh my God, I wannado everything as best I can.
I wanna minimize my misery and aggravation.
(49:35):
It doesn't matter where it is.
Work, home, friends.
I think what a lot of people don't get is life,literally life's purpose is the human
experience.
If we start doing things isolation and pushinghumans away and creating conflict, there's no
(49:55):
right way or wrong way to live.
Yeah, there's a wrong way to live.
Don't be a dick and don't push the people awaythat are trying to create this human
experience.
Because when you actually care about the peoplethat you're engaging with, and if they care
about you, life is 10 times easier, a hundredtimes more enjoyable, and everybody's just in a
(50:19):
better place.
You know, whenever shit goes down, there's allthese cliches that come out and no one wants to
hear them, but they're all pretty true.
But the simple one that I really like to liveby and preach all the time, even I say it to
myself, even when I rage a little becausesomebody sets me off is really you treat people
(50:40):
the way you wanna be treated.
Yeah.
Right?
And if you believe in karma and things goaround, come around, it will.
Now, for me, it never comes around as fast as Iwant it to.
But I still feel better knowing I'm treatingmost people with kindness in the way that I
(51:01):
want to be treated.
I just find I go through life.
When I figured that out a while ago, I just gothrough life just a little easier with less
complexity.
Because you're not always stepping to get outof your way.
The other thing in life that I learned, whichwas a pretty big experience is to wear smaller
(51:21):
shoes because they're easier to take out ofyour mouth when they get stuck.
Right?
It's a, I wear ladies shoes now, but
Oh my God.
Sometimes my brain keeps moving and my mouthisn't fast enough to close the lips to stop it.
Yeah, yeah.
So the fast action thing is just the shoe inthe mouth and then people get the picture.
(51:45):
Yeah.
But it's but it's great.
Wow.
All all I could say is what an enlighteningconversation and thank you.
No.
Because usually, I don't leave these I don'thave these conversations with a lot of people.
I'm gonna look for more people like you becausethe other conversations are not so fun.
Aw, thank Well, there's no negativity here.
There's no talking.
Was pretty much all upbeat.
(52:06):
Yeah.
And we're gonna talk again on this, but that isexactly the way everyone should be to some
degree, I think to help move our industryforward in the right direction with young
people, with women.
I won't go into any other diversities becausethere's big issues out there in the world.
(52:29):
So I won't piss anybody off.
There's a lot of them.
Yeah, especially with diversity.
But I wanna piss anybody off.
And at the end of the day, if we all cutourselves, I don't even need to use pronouns or
genders or any of that.
I do it this way.
When we cut ourselves, we all bleed red, we'rehumans.
Yeah.
And I think we need to go back to being humanfirst and then go in the other direction you
(52:52):
wanna go on.
Yeah.
Like you gotta be nice to everybody else.
That's right.
Right?
I agree.
That's the end of it.
So I'm gonna call this a wrap, but we can go onand we will go on because there's so many notes
that I made and I don't usually make notes, butI won't show you in case you could read them.
My writing is kind of like mother said shouldhave been a doctor because I scribble and I
(53:12):
probably won't be able to read them after.
But before we go and I cut you, anything youwant anybody listening to know that you didn't
already tell them?
That I haven't already said?
No.
You can say it again if you want.
It was all good.
Yeah.
Honestly, just like that cliche, live your bestlife.
(53:33):
Honestly, just pay attention.
Pay attention to what makes you feel good, whatdoesn't make you feel good, and do something
about it.
Know?
We tend to stick in certain situations thatcreate fear and anxiety and all these other
things.
Think about why, why are you doing that?
I actually just, quick story, I was not happydoing a certain role at a company that I was
(53:57):
in, and I thought, you know what, screw it.
I will live off my credit card for a month if Ihave to.
I have enough faith in myself that I will findsomething.
I cannot do this role another moment.
It makes me literally just want to die.
And just had that faith in myself and faith inthe universe, as they say, I don't know how
(54:31):
long I might have been doing that and thenstruggling with anxiety and depression and
going on antidepressants and doing all theseunnecessary things because I was afraid to
believe in myself.
So I'd say if anyone is struggling and likefeels stuck and doesn't know what to do, call
me, call Warren.
We'll help you figure it out.
(54:53):
You call me, you're paying.
You call me, you're paying because I invest inmy Oh, do it free with up.
Five minutes.
Yeah, it's not the fifty minute session, right?
No.
But yeah, but no, it's so true.
Know what?
I mean, we're gonna, I'm gonna go on, but Ifind myself even talking with people I know
don't always, if I could give, if I could sharea life experience where I hurt at one point,
(55:15):
because everything's hurt pain and then Yeah.
Oh my God, it's always so good.
I mean, listen, I'll just touch I had a, andI've said in the past, but I lost my business
in 2019 after twenty seven years of building itand losing And even that's a, it was a shit
story how it happened and a president and apartner and a whatever, leave that go.
But right after that, sixty days after thatended mother died, sixty days after that
(55:39):
mother-in-law passed.
I'm gonna take the summer off and just chillafter twenty seven years and some motherfucker
stole my ranger boat and trailer.
That was the worst thing that happened to me in2019.
They stole my boat and trailer.
Then I'm gonna do Warren two point zero, COVIDrolls in.
Yeah.
And we go into lockdown.
Girl, I'm with eight years, she decides toleave.
So I had eighteen months of getting beat up.
(56:00):
Ex wife who, I hate the word ex because we'regreat together, more like brother sister, but
she recommends it amazing.
Well no, we're like, because we parent ourkids.
Yeah.
We speak every day and there's nothing elseother than Yeah.
Yeah, no, no, we're like best friends.
Actually great.
And she recommended a life coach who to thisday I'm still using.
(56:21):
Yeah.
And I'll just tell you, because you said theword belief, But the first thing that I learnt
was, our thoughts become our beliefs, ourbeliefs become our habits.
Yeah.
And then our habits become our actions.
Yep.
So whenever you're starting off and there'ssomething in your head, you just have to ask
yourself, is that true?
Right.
If it's not true, move on to something else.
Yep.
And wasn't easy, even though I just said itreal quickly in a minute, wasn't But once I got
(56:47):
the hang of it, my stress level became 67%better.
That question, what do I know to be true?
Is life changing, very life changing.
Because you can have that conversation withyourself.
We all know.
We all know the truth.
We just don't think about it naturally becausewe're human and trauma just kind of takes on a
(57:12):
life of its Right.
Our brain is there to cause us trauma.
That's right.
That's right.
So asking the question, what do I know to betrue?
Is definitely like that hand that just pullsyou out of the the shit, so to speak.
So I recommend it to anybody.
Absolutely.
So you can call Jennifer for free advice.
(57:33):
You can call me for paid advice.
It'd be my pleasure to help you.
And I go full sixty minutes, not fifty minuteslike a therapist, because I'm not a trained
therapist.
And I want you to have your money's worth.
Anyways, all the, it's all good, it's all real,and all kidding aside, I really, I just have to
say thank you to you because everything yousaid was like, felt from the heart was true.
(57:57):
Just, made, you warned me and you made me smilebecause it's just- Thanks Warren.
You can't disguise real.
Yeah.
Right?
Definitely.
Thank who's listening, and I hope you got thisfar where you just heard me thank Jennifer for
coming on, you know, I'd like to know what youthought about the episode.
And I always again appreciate you listening.
(58:19):
If anybody has anyone that wants, knows anyonethat wants to be on, if you wanna be on, if
you've got something great to talk about, ifyou don't wanna be on, but you have a great
topic, always reach out to me.
I am always happy to talk to everybody.
So I will sign off with Warren Werbitt,printing's alive and I love print.
See you next time.
Thanks, Jennifer.
(58:39):
Thank you.
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