April 17, 2024 • 34 mins
Prepare to be transported through time as we sit down with John Busick, a masterful lineage painter and innovator at the helm of Kunst Painting and Workglue. Through our rich conversation, we guarantee you'll uncover the golden threads that weave together a painting dynasty spanning from the 1800s to an era where brushes meet bytes. John's story isn't just about painting; it's an odyssey of tradition merging with technology, where the values of yesterday become the success stories of today. As we navigate his journey, you'll be equipped with the wisdom of integrating core principles with the Entrepreneurial Operating System (EOS) to create a canvas of productivity and growth.
Dive headfirst into the convergence of artistry and efficiency with Work Glue, John's groundbreaking solution to the labyrinth of managing a thriving painting business. Imagine a world where each customer interaction is a stroke of genius, every project flows as smoothly as fresh paint, and your business's financial health radiates with the sheen of well-applied varnish. We'll walk you through the essentials of optimizing labor and material costs, the secret sauce to maintaining impressive gross profit margins, and how the right systems—like Workglue—can transform your painting business from a scatterplot of tasks to a masterpiece of management. Don't just listen—immerse yourself in the craft of business acumen as painted by a true virtuoso.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the profitable painter podcast.
The mission of this podcast issimple To help you navigate the
financial and tax aspects ofstarting, running and scaling a
professional painting businessFrom the brushes and ladders to
the spreadsheets and balancesheets.
We've got you covered.
But before we dive in, a quickword of caution While we strive
to provide accurate andup-to-date financial and tax
(00:20):
information, nothing you hear onthis podcast should be
considered as financial advicespecifically for you or your
business.
We're here to share generalknowledge and experiences, not
to replace the tailored adviceyou get from a professional
financial advisor or taxconsultant.
We strongly recommend youseeking individualized advice
before making any significantfinancial decisions.
(00:41):
This is Daniel, the founder ofBookkeeping for Painters, and
today I'm here with John Busek.
John Busek is a fifth generationpainter and third generation
owner of Koontz Painting, apremier residential and
commercial painting companylocated in Sound Raphael,
california.
John is obsessed with systems,workflows and customer service.
(01:02):
He is Workglue's visionaryleader and CEO of his third
generation family paintingcompany.
John originally saw Workglue asa simple solution to run his
staff of 30 plus painters.
It was such a game changer.
He wanted to help otherbusiness owners reap the
benefits of more time out of theoffice.
(01:22):
Hence Workglue was born.
Today, john continues to beWorkglue's biggest advocate for
simplicity, key features anddeveloping new partners.
John lives just outside of SanFrancisco, california, with his
wife and two sons.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Welcome to the podcast, John.
Awesome Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Absolutely glad to have you.
Super excited to get into yourbackground John, a fifth
generation painter.
That's pretty amazing.
What's the story behind that?
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Story goes back deep.
Apparently we're not very smartpeople because we just can't
get out of it.
But I'm just kidding Happy tobe here.
Story goes back in the late1800s.
My great-great-greatgrandfather was immigrating from
Germany to New York and headedwest.
(02:17):
His first job was actuallypainting rail cars that classic
black.
He was painting the rail carsas they moved west, eventually
landed in San Francisco andbecame a painter and a grainer
there.
His two sons actually startedmanufacturing paint.
We were originally amanufacturing company.
(02:37):
They grew it to about 11 storesup and down the state had a
huge factory in downtown SanFrancisco.
Unfortunately in the 1930s orso the main factory burned down.
They lost everything.
At that point they didn't haveinsurance.
Back then my grandfather cameback from the Korean War.
(02:59):
He and his twin brothersstarted to paint contracting.
Since then we've been out andabout doing a paint and
residential and commercial herein Marin County in San Francisco
as well.
We've recently expanded northup to Napa and Sonoma counties.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
You must have a huge amount of knowledge in the
family on painting.
You went from manufacturing andnow you're running three
generations of the paintingbusiness, which is amazing.
What are some of the key thingsthat you've learned, either
from your own experience orpassed down from your family, in
(03:46):
terms of systems, workflows andcustomer service?
I know those, I think, are thepillars that have probably
shaped your company's success.
What are some of the key thingsthat you've learned?
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Yeah, that's a great question.
I'm super grateful.
Fortunate, I realize that a lotof people that are out there
starting their own business inthe painting industry really
struggling out there sometimesto find jobs, find employees and
such.
So I inherited a establishedbusiness.
(04:22):
That said, there are otherchallenges that come with that.
That's a lot of people saybusiness is messy and not easy.
So, no matter what stage you'rein, some of the things I've
learned over time and beenpassed down to me that is one of
our core values over here is tobasically do what you say
(04:43):
you're going to do and youshould be fine at the end of the
day.
As long as you do what you sayyou're going to do and take care
of people.
At the end of the day, goodpeople, good business, good
clients will find you and stickwith you.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
And I know you mentioned core values.
So is that something that youguys have in your business that
you try to really attract andemployees like in the traction?
I don't know if you're familiarwith traction, that EOS system
Is that something that you guysemploy in the business or?
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Honey, you mentioned that.
Daniel, we are actually in theprocess of taking a deep dive in
EOS.
We've hired a EOS coach.
That's kind of meeting with ourmanagement team, and we're
going through all that.
But taking a step back, mygrandfather was a pioneer.
He sat on the national boardfor PDCA back in the day in the
(05:44):
50s and 60s In fact.
I just went to the national PCAconference and they had some
old photos sitting there, and Isaw my grandfather sitting at
one of those tables, and thatwas just pretty cool for me to
look at those pictures back thenand see him.
My point to bring that upduring the core values, though,
(06:05):
is they didn't call him corevalues back then, but he
certainly had him, and he waskind of a pioneer with With that
business thinking.
So we've always had these.
He called him key principleswhen.
When I grew up, that's what hehad kind of listed in our shop,
and 3 of those key principlesare now our core core values,
(06:26):
which we call so We've alwayshad them.
Now they're just coming to theforefront and we're managing the
business Around those corevalues.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Okay, a lot of folks, you know, at least when I was
younger, when someone would saycore values, my eyes would kind
of glaze over and I didn'treally understand how they could
be Useful or or powerful in thebusiness.
What, what things have you, Iguess?
What results have you seenusing core values In the
(07:00):
business, and and how do youactually Make sure your team is
on board with those core values?
Speaker 2 (07:10):
I don't think that ever ends.
That's a constant Massage, thatfinding different ways to Bring
those to the forefront.
We start every meeting anddiscuss our core values in
different ways.
A lot of times it's through astory or something that happened
during the week is saysomething went, something went
(07:32):
south on a job and how wecorrected it and maybe used one
of those core values to you know.
One of them is do what we saywe're going to do.
So you know we screwed up on X,y, z and we fixed it by telling
the customer we were going tofix it and we followed through
on that.
So I think it's something thatyou constantly need to Keep your
(07:55):
finger on and bring it to theforefront, and through
storytelling, I think, is howyou avoid kind of the glossy,
especially so some of your Newemployees grasp what you're
really talking about.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
Yeah, and imagine it would.
It would help with decisionmaking at the lower level when,
when they know what the corevalue is, do what you say you're
going to do they don't have theask permission.
You know they, they know whatwhat your take is on that and so
you know if the sales personmistakenly said you know we'll
paint that for free or that'sincluded, you know, in the quote
(08:32):
, but it wasn't put on the quote.
You know, maybe that's can besolved at the lowest level when
the production manager knowslike, hey, we said we're going
to do this, so let's go aheadand follow through and do it,
even though it might, you know,monetarily hurt the business,
but we want to follow throughwith what we said.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean we're, we're looking forcustomers for life.
Some are our crew leaders andproduction managers know that
that is.
That is absolutely thedirection that we want.
That autonomy, that decisionmaking.
You know it's, it's part of themarketing budget.
To be honest, you do a good job.
(09:10):
What better dollars are spenton marketing than taking care of
customers so they become repeatand referral?
Speaker 1 (09:16):
So yes, absolutely yeah, that's a great point.
A lot of people don't think oftheir customers as recurring you
know Revenue in this business.
Anyway, they, you know they'revery focused on getting the
customer and then producing thework, but then after that is
(09:38):
kind of not.
You know, now it's the nextgetting the next customer, so
not a lot of attention is ispaid on hey, this is a customer
that we're going to keep overthe you know their lifetime or
however long they'll be in thearea.
So that seems like that's adeliberate strategy on your part
(09:58):
.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Yeah, absolutely We've.
I'm going back to your originalquestion.
We inherited that mentality.
68% of our businesses repeatreferral.
So it's a heavy, heavy portionof our business and we want to
continue that because theclosing rate on those, as you
(10:19):
know is, Is much, much higherand a lot easier.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
So what programs do you have in place to make sure
customers are reactivated orturn into customers again?
Speaker 2 (10:39):
What do you mean?
Are you talking SOPs?
Are you talking software?
What are you talking about?
Speaker 1 (10:49):
You mentioned that we take care of our customers so
that they come back to us later.
Do you have a system to reachout to them periodically to see
if they need help, like a directmail or email?
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Yeah, we use.
You can use any one of them,but we chose constant contact.
We also have our customerdatabase.
I know we're talking about ithere but we use work glue for
that, for our customer database,and spit that off.
There's different categories ofhow we track people within
there and they become a referralclient at that point and that
(11:29):
list gets exported to constantcontact and that's how we
continue that path.
There's other areas to market.
To existing customers Say it'sa residential repaint that you
finish so you can mark a datewithin the system that we've
created and follow up two yearslater, a year later, and say,
hey, reaching out, probably agood idea that we do a power
(11:51):
wash maintenance check on yourproperty.
It's been two years XYZ.
So we kind of put a monthlylist together based on finished
date of that repaint and kind ofhit those lists as going
forward.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Okay, so you have a life cycle kind of planned out
for like an exterior repaint.
You know that two years fromnow we should be reaching out to
them to do a pressure wash, andso they're like in a constant
contact workflow that follows upwith them.
You know, two years from thatpoint, or make sure that we send
(12:31):
off that.
So that's kind of built intothe system where you have
different milestones to reachout to folks.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Yeah, exactly, most of it's trigger and status of
the customer.
That's how we kind of track it.
There's multiple ways to setthat up.
I hire smart people much morethan me to handle that.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
But that's awesome.
You mentioned work glue.
How did work glue come about?
I know I've read in thebeginning about your bio.
Basically, you built work glueto solve problems that you had
in your current business, socould you go through, I guess,
(13:14):
what those problems were, whatwas the work glue fixing and how
did that actually come about?
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Good question.
When I came into the office soI was.
I went off to college, did thecorporate world thing realized
that wasn't really my.
My speed was.
I wasn't built for that myfather offered me the
opportunity to come back intothe family business, so I did
that, and prior to being able tocome into the office, though,
(13:40):
he forced me to work in thefield.
Excuse me, in working in thefield as a crew leader, learn
from the bottom up basically howoperations worked and such Well
as I was going through thatprocess about a year and a half
in our office, manager of 15years, who essentially was every
(14:01):
SOP on the back end, went outovernight with a career ending
illness, and I was brought intothe office overnight and had to
figure out all the systems.
We didn't use very muchtechnology back then this is in
the early 2000s, still veryheavily Microsoft based and then
(14:22):
we decided I started chippingaway at things.
I needed a CRM, I neededtimekeeping system, I needed
payroll system, accounting, youknow all the buckets that you
need to kind of fill to run thebusiness.
I started doing all these oneoff apps out there, so before I
knew it, I was logging intoeight different apps and it
became cumbersome, difficult tomanage my business.
(14:45):
Nothing really sank.
It was kind of double entry,quadruple entry.
So I met a software developerthrough a friend and here
locally in the Bay Area and Iwas kind of telling him exactly
what I needed to kind of pairthese few things.
So he built some custom stufffor me and I had a little, you
(15:07):
know, kind of a littlehodgepodge system.
That was married and I was at aPDCA event and a residential
forum and some other paintingcontractors saw what I was
logging into and looking at mybusiness from the computer and
they were like hey, what is that?
And I kind of showed them.
They actually forced me to comeup and do a little presentation
(15:27):
and half the room was like howdo I get that, you know?
So before I knew it I called mysoftware guy.
I had no intention of gettinginto the software world but I
said I think we might havesomething here.
So that's how Workloo was born.
We brought on a few earlyadopters and some investment and
really kind of grew the productand I actually was just using
(15:52):
it and a lot of people, a lot ofcontractors over the years
since then have really builtWorkloo together.
So it's built based on thecontractor's perspective, which
is a really neat thing, becauseI think that's a different
perspective when it comes tosoftware today.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
So yeah, that's the.
That's always the best.
Software is where the founderbuilt it to solve his own issues
, so that's it's alwaysrefreshing to, instead of like
an outsider trying to figure out, like, what's going on.
And so, like, for example,paint scout, they, you know they
(16:30):
were solving their issue withestimating and so they created
paints, paint scout, which Ithink paint scout and work.
We work pretty well together,if I'm not mistaken.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Correct, yeah, yeah, john and I over there we kick
things back and forth.
They're a great product, verycompany.
Workloo does not do estimating.
We directly sync with back andforth with paint scout, so it's
kind of a good little mirrorback and forth, a little merge,
as well as QuickBooks online andthat's kind of where you guys
(17:00):
come in.
So it's from A to Z throughthose three systems.
Obviously you have some oneoffs here and there and that's
where Zapier comes into playtoday.
Yeah, essentially what Workloodoes, what it solves today's
problems, your biggest bucketsit's a project management system
(17:21):
.
So it starts off when you closethe deal.
It becomes a job and at thatpoint you start scheduling
either employees or subs inthere, start tracking different
costs, make expenses.
Within that you'recommunicating in Workloo from
the office to the field.
We have a mobile app that allthe field crews or subs can use
(17:43):
and they get all the details ofthe project, find out what
they're doing, when, so on andso forth.
And from there, so you'rescheduling your employees,
you're scheduling the job itself.
So there's two differentschedules that a lot of people
forget to think about.
You have your employees thatyou're scheduling, or subs, and
then you have the actual jobschedule, which is in the future
(18:04):
date, right, so I'm doing Danny, I'm doing your house in
September.
I need to get that on theschedule.
I don't know who's there yet,but I'm plugging it on there, so
Workloo helps you with that.
And then there's a bunch ofother bells and whistles in
between that help you manage theproject from A to Z.
Once it closes out, it syncswith QuickBooks Online so you
(18:26):
can bill it and track, changeorders and stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
That's awesome.
So since you've been workingwith Workloo because it's been
you guys have been in businessfor what?
Speaker 2 (18:40):
10 years for a little while right, realistically,
probably since 2017 is when wereally really launched.
So 10 years moving at it, yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
So what have you seen in terms of numbers, because
I'm sure you have a lot of datain Workloo.
What does a healthy paintingbusiness look like in terms of
how much should they be payingfor labor or materials and that
kind of thing?
Speaker 2 (19:07):
It depends.
I mean, a commercial businessversus a residential is going to
be a little bit different.
But if you're primarilyresidential you're anywhere from
, I see, 25 to 35% labor is kindof a healthy business.
Around 10 to 15% material andsundries are in there.
That's kind of the typical.
(19:29):
Obviously, material is going togo up.
On the commercial side Labormight drop a little bit more
because you're offsetting thatwith, maybe, equipment that
you're renting or anything likethat or assets you might
purchase and build back.
But yeah, that tends to be thesweet spot for labor.
One thing that I also do trackin my company is sundries and
(19:57):
inventory, so that kind of syncsup.
So when you bill out sundrieswe do some larger projects.
So sundries do come into play.
When you're ordering rolls androlls and rolls of tape, those
do add up.
But on the average residentialproject it's probably not even
worth tracking almost becauseit's taken too much time to
(20:17):
track.
That tends to be the big bucketsfor me for what I'm seeing.
We could get probably prettyinto the weeds, but most people
probably don't want to hear metalk about that.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
For labor.
You said 25% to 35% for directlabor on the job side, the crews
on the job side right, that'swhat we're talking about there,
correct, okay?
So I think some peoplelistening might be like, wow,
that's not a lot at all, becauseI've seen folks pay 50% to
labor.
So, basically, from what you'veseen, healthy painting
(21:00):
businesses, basically theirlabor is 1 fourth of the revenue
, 1 fourth to 1 third of therevenue that they bring in,
which is Correct 33%, I think isthe average, even if you jumped
up to 37, I think you'rehealthy.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
But if you're in the 50% labor range, that does a
tough gross profit margin to beworking with.
Don't get me wrong.
Ours does increase during thewinter time to keep our guys
busy, so we tend to knock thatGP down.
A healthy GP that I'm seeingtoday excuse me, a healthy GP
(21:41):
that I'm seeing is anywherearound 40 to 50%.
Is the healthy range that I seereally successful painting
companies hitting some up to 60%.
Something below that for me inmy perspective, since I run a
painting business, is A littledangerous.
(22:03):
There's not much room for air.
So something to be considering,Think about.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Yeah, that makes complete sense and it does
reflect what I see as well.
Like 40% is the minimum grossprofit, like after paying for
direct labor, direct materials.
40% needs to be a minimum,hopefully not shooting for 40%,
because that's like kind of thatthe average, but 50% is usually
(22:29):
at least a starting target andthen as you grow and everything,
maybe even getting that up to55 or maybe even 60% for some
folks, that's yeah, thatdefinitely reflects what I've
seen for sure.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
And it also depends on your you know supply and
demand current economy.
Like we were trying to hit 60%for the last few years because
there were such good years thatyou couldn't get to everything,
so you wanted to bid things alittle bit higher and take the
premium.
But now that it's slowlyshifted a little bit, now we're
shooting for 55, 50.
(23:05):
So it kind of depends on themarket as well.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
What things have you used in your business to get
your gross profit to hit, youknow, 55 or 60% gross profit?
What things have youimplemented in the business,
whether it's systems or softwareor whatever?
Speaker 2 (23:23):
it is.
Yeah, I think it's.
You can use whatever systemsyou want, as long as you.
I think a great starting pointis a system SOPs.
If you're into standardoperating procedures, those
things are something that you'rea repeatable process.
You want to get those on inwriting.
You want to get everyonefollowing the same standard
operating procedure because thenit's repeatable.
(23:48):
A perfect example for us ischecklists.
We use checklists withinWorkloo and while people are out
on their mobile app.
In the field we have standardoperating procedures for
checklists.
Say, we're starting your houseto paint your house, daniel, our
crew leader knows to meet withyou.
He's a checklist on his appthat he clicks each button and
writes a note.
Met with owner.
(24:08):
Owner's expectations are XYZ.
Next question where should weput our job shop right?
The stuff we're bringing onsite Location takes a picture of
that, puts it in the checklist.
So it just makes that crewleader follow the questions that
we want them answered on dayone Did we find any scratch
(24:31):
glass, any broken materials,anything like that?
They take the picture and putit in on the checklist.
So we kind of have thatdocumented before we even get
started.
Another one checklist that wehave is the closeout process.
So how, how?
I want that to roll everysingle time so we don't skip a
step.
So I don't personally, as theowner or project manager, have
(24:52):
to be on site and make sure thatstuff gets done.
So that's a, that's kind of anexample how we use it.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Yeah, that's, that's awesome.
So basically, they're usingworkload to go through step by
step for each project.
They have a checklist theyfollow and then they notate,
check it off, notate what theydid, or would take a picture of
of the, of where they're storingthe tools in between.
(25:20):
You know when they're going tocome back next, and so you can
you can.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
You can build custom checklist however many you want,
a whatever stage or project,and it's pretty open source so
you can kind of build that.
Another thing that we do isdaily job logs.
The crew leaders responsible toput in at the end of the day,
take pictures and and most ofthem use like the voice
microphone on the phone and talkinto it about explaining what
(25:45):
they got accomplished for thatday and what their plan is for
tomorrow and any issues thatcame up on that day they're
supposed to report and anyinjuries or anything like that
accidents or injuries.
So we capture that every daycomes in.
We have a daily job log reportthat we look at that the end of
the day or the early nextmorning.
So that way our crews are setup, have everything they need
(26:10):
and we continue to checkprogress.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
Okay.
So basically you're you'repreventing issues that you know
we're leaning forward, usingthat checklist to prevent issues
which would make things moreefficient.
Move makes for things, mootworks more smoothly.
And then you have those end ofjob, end of day job reports
which kind of make sure thatwe're ready for the next day.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
It sounds like Exactly and for, since a large
percentage of our business isrepeat, a lot of times we access
those job logs, going back andsaying, hey, you know, 656 years
down the road, how did we setup that scaffolding, how did we
set up the ladder work?
And we quickly can look atthose pictures back from the
(26:56):
previous project the next timewe go.
Same with managing colors andall that.
Like everything gets uploadedinto the system.
So we're much more efficient.
We're not matching colors a lot, we keep the formulas on file.
Another thing that, outside ofsoftware, that keeps us
efficient is we do weekly crewleader meetings.
(27:21):
So crew leaders report backwhere they're at on the project.
Paint Scout does a phenomenaljob of creating the estimate and
the work order at the same time.
So people know how many hoursare estimated on this project
and exactly what they're doing,with photos to boot.
So we provide those with ourcrew leaders and hold them
(27:41):
accountable.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
So they get the budget hours with everything
that was put in the proposal andtheir work order and then each
week you're reviewing okay, howdid we do on this job so far?
Or maybe it's done already.
And you're reviewing okay, youwere budgeted for this, what
actually happened.
And then you're saying, okay,what went wrong and what went
right?
Is that kind of what's going onthere?
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Exactly and we're not perfect.
Some guys slip up.
Some guys are better thanothers that reporting.
One thing we really are good atand people like yourself
appreciate that at the end ofthe month is we're on top of job
costing.
So we know exactly where we'reat on every single job, down to
(28:27):
every material receipt.
So that process really quick.
You can make it pretty slick.
Say, juan goes to the paintstore, picks up a five gallons
of paint.
The receipt comes in the email.
It automatically goes intoQuickBooks online.
We sync with QuickBooks.
That pulls into WorkLoose sothe guy out the field knows
(28:49):
exactly what they've spent onmaterial and labor at that
second.
So today's world is prettyfascinating.
It's pretty exciting in thepainting business in terms of
leveraging technology if you doit right, and it really helps
improve efficiency.
That I've learned.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
Do you reward your crews if they come in under
budget or anything like that?
Speaker 2 (29:12):
So we have a performance bonus system that
there's kind of five checks forevery job we track for the crew
leader.
Is the customer happy?
It's yes or no?
These are all not subjective,these are just yes or no
questions.
Did they get the job logs infor every single day, yes or no?
Were they under 10% underbudget on hours, yes or no?
(29:37):
And did they get the customerfeedback?
Did they get the?
We have a form that we give thecustomer.
It's got customer report card.
Did they get a nine or 10 onthat?
And then the last one is didthey hit their production hours,
budgeted production hours forthe month as a whole Meaning,
(30:00):
did they work, say they have 80hours for two weeks?
Did they work the full 80 ordid they not work the full 80?
Speaker 1 (30:08):
Okay, and that nine or 10, is that the net promoter
score system Correct?
Yeah, pretty much.
Okay, awesome.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
So they have those five things that they need to
hit and if they do, so if youfollow EOS, that is their number
right, those are their KPIsthat they're trying to hit.
My production manager isrequired to hit a certain GP
based on all that.
So if we're doing our job onthe estimating side at a certain
(30:38):
gross profit margin, that we'rebidding and holding our
production managers accountableto those numbers, and he's
hitting those numbers and thecrew's hitting those numbers.
All of us are hitting ournumber that we're trying to
follow.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
So everyone's moving in the same direction and is
there.
So they get like a bonus eachmonth If they quarter.
We do a quarterly bonus.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
All of those add up to five points per job.
So if you're hitting yourpoints every month, you can earn
up to 5% of your W2 per quarter.
Nice.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Okay, that's good, all right.
So what kind of futuredevelopments does Workloo have
going, because I know you guysare constantly improving the
software, because I knowPayneScout, I think, was added
in the last year or so and youhave integrations with Zapier
(31:36):
set up.
Is there anything else, newfeatures or developments coming
down the pike?
Speaker 2 (31:42):
Yeah, we have a few payroll developments happening,
payroll syncs with a fewdifferent companies, direct
syncs that are gonna be prettyrobust and pretty exciting on
that end in terms of HR.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
The mobile app the hours like syncing hours to
payroll.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Syncing hours, vacation time, sick pay there's
a whole list of other stuffthat's gonna happen over time.
And entering an employee onetime and it syncs back and forth
.
You don't have to enter it inmultiple areas.
The other one that we justreleased.
It actually it's prettyexciting.
Our mobile app just had a hugeupdate so now you can access
(32:24):
documents and photos within thefrom the field.
So once you can make certaindocuments public to the company
or whoever as a user is orcertain kind of hidden.
So there's two categories therefor the guys out in the field
Now they can pull up any scopeof work documents schedule.
You know, maybe a designer senta PDF schedule.
(32:45):
You can upload that intoWorkBow and the guys in the
field can access that Simplestuff like that.
The mobile app also justupdated the timekeeping piece to
where now there's multiplelayers.
You can enter the cost codesand stuff like that if you track
cost codes so you can take itin the extra deep layer on that.
(33:06):
So it's constantly improving.
We always have improvementsrolling.
Our improvements withPaintScout continue to roll out
as well.
As they improve, we improve andvice versa.
Same with QuickBooks online.
Quickbooks continues into.
It continues to produce betterand better APIs out there, so
(33:28):
their API is constantlyimproving, and so do we.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
What should folks do if they're interested in
reaching out to you or tointerested in using WorkLU in
their own business?
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Yeah, Phil.
You can always email me,johnjohn at workluecom, or you
can go to the website workluecomand all you need to do is click
on schedule a free demo ortraining and that will set you
up immediately and you can findout and do a little tour and go
from there.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
Awesome, yeah, and I highly recommend WorkLU.
We have several clients thatuse you guys and they love the,
like you said, the way itintegrates with PaintScout and
then also QuickBooks online andit keeps their business running.
So definitely highly recommendyou check out WorkLU if you
haven't already, and with thatwe'll wrap things up here.
(34:20):
Love to hear your thoughts andthe Grow your Painting Business
Facebook group.
If you're not already a member,feel free to go to Facebook,
type in Grow your PaintingBusiness and join the group, ask
questions about WorkLU and giveany feedback on future podcasts
.
Love to hear from you and withthat we will see you next week.
Welcome to the profitable painter podcast.
The mission of this podcast issimple To help you navigate the
financial and tax aspects ofstarting, running and scaling a
professional painting businessFrom the brushes and ladders to
the spreadsheets and balancesheets.
We've got you covered.
But before we dive in, a quickword of caution While we strive
to provide accurate andup-to-date financial and tax
(00:20):
information, nothing you hear onthis podcast should be
considered as financial advicespecifically for you or your
business.
We're here to share generalknowledge and experiences, not
to replace the tailored adviceyou get from a professional
financial advisor or taxconsultant.
We strongly recommend youseeking individualized advice
before making any significantfinancial decisions.
(00:41):
This is Daniel, the founder ofBookkeeping for Painters, and
today I'm here with John Busek.
John Busek is a fifth generationpainter and third generation
owner of Koontz Painting, apremier residential and
commercial painting companylocated in Sound Raphael,
california.
John is obsessed with systems,workflows and customer service.
(01:02):
He is Workglue's visionaryleader and CEO of his third
generation family paintingcompany.
John originally saw Workglue asa simple solution to run his
staff of 30 plus painters.
It was such a game changer.
He wanted to help otherbusiness owners reap the
benefits of more time out of theoffice.
(01:22):
Hence Workglue was born.
Today, john continues to beWorkglue's biggest advocate for
simplicity, key features anddeveloping new partners.
John lives just outside of SanFrancisco, california, with his
wife and two sons.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Welcome to the podcast, John.
Awesome Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Absolutely glad to have you.
Super excited to get into yourbackground John, a fifth
generation painter.
That's pretty amazing.
What's the story behind that?
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Story goes back deep.
Apparently we're not very smartpeople because we just can't
get out of it.
But I'm just kidding Happy tobe here.
Story goes back in the late1800s.
My great-great-greatgrandfather was immigrating from
Germany to New York and headedwest.
(02:17):
His first job was actuallypainting rail cars that classic
black.
He was painting the rail carsas they moved west, eventually
landed in San Francisco andbecame a painter and a grainer
there.
His two sons actually startedmanufacturing paint.
We were originally amanufacturing company.
(02:37):
They grew it to about 11 storesup and down the state had a
huge factory in downtown SanFrancisco.
Unfortunately in the 1930s orso the main factory burned down.
They lost everything.
At that point they didn't haveinsurance.
Back then my grandfather cameback from the Korean War.
(02:59):
He and his twin brothersstarted to paint contracting.
Since then we've been out andabout doing a paint and
residential and commercial herein Marin County in San Francisco
as well.
We've recently expanded northup to Napa and Sonoma counties.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
You must have a huge amount of knowledge in the
family on painting.
You went from manufacturing andnow you're running three
generations of the paintingbusiness, which is amazing.
What are some of the key thingsthat you've learned, either
from your own experience orpassed down from your family, in
(03:46):
terms of systems, workflows andcustomer service?
I know those, I think, are thepillars that have probably
shaped your company's success.
What are some of the key thingsthat you've learned?
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Yeah, that's a great question.
I'm super grateful.
Fortunate, I realize that a lotof people that are out there
starting their own business inthe painting industry really
struggling out there sometimesto find jobs, find employees and
such.
So I inherited a establishedbusiness.
(04:22):
That said, there are otherchallenges that come with that.
That's a lot of people saybusiness is messy and not easy.
So, no matter what stage you'rein, some of the things I've
learned over time and beenpassed down to me that is one of
our core values over here is tobasically do what you say
(04:43):
you're going to do and youshould be fine at the end of the
day.
As long as you do what you sayyou're going to do and take care
of people.
At the end of the day, goodpeople, good business, good
clients will find you and stickwith you.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
And I know you mentioned core values.
So is that something that youguys have in your business that
you try to really attract andemployees like in the traction?
I don't know if you're familiarwith traction, that EOS system
Is that something that you guysemploy in the business or?
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Honey, you mentioned that.
Daniel, we are actually in theprocess of taking a deep dive in
EOS.
We've hired a EOS coach.
That's kind of meeting with ourmanagement team, and we're
going through all that.
But taking a step back, mygrandfather was a pioneer.
He sat on the national boardfor PDCA back in the day in the
(05:44):
50s and 60s In fact.
I just went to the national PCAconference and they had some
old photos sitting there, and Isaw my grandfather sitting at
one of those tables, and thatwas just pretty cool for me to
look at those pictures back thenand see him.
My point to bring that upduring the core values, though,
(06:05):
is they didn't call him corevalues back then, but he
certainly had him, and he waskind of a pioneer with With that
business thinking.
So we've always had these.
He called him key principleswhen.
When I grew up, that's what hehad kind of listed in our shop,
and 3 of those key principlesare now our core core values,
(06:26):
which we call so We've alwayshad them.
Now they're just coming to theforefront and we're managing the
business Around those corevalues.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Okay, a lot of folks, you know, at least when I was
younger, when someone would saycore values, my eyes would kind
of glaze over and I didn'treally understand how they could
be Useful or or powerful in thebusiness.
What, what things have you, Iguess?
What results have you seenusing core values In the
(07:00):
business, and and how do youactually Make sure your team is
on board with those core values?
Speaker 2 (07:10):
I don't think that ever ends.
That's a constant Massage, thatfinding different ways to Bring
those to the forefront.
We start every meeting anddiscuss our core values in
different ways.
A lot of times it's through astory or something that happened
during the week is saysomething went, something went
(07:32):
south on a job and how wecorrected it and maybe used one
of those core values to you know.
One of them is do what we saywe're going to do.
So you know we screwed up on X,y, z and we fixed it by telling
the customer we were going tofix it and we followed through
on that.
So I think it's something thatyou constantly need to Keep your
(07:55):
finger on and bring it to theforefront, and through
storytelling, I think, is howyou avoid kind of the glossy,
especially so some of your Newemployees grasp what you're
really talking about.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
Yeah, and imagine it would.
It would help with decisionmaking at the lower level when,
when they know what the corevalue is, do what you say you're
going to do they don't have theask permission.
You know they, they know whatwhat your take is on that and so
you know if the sales personmistakenly said you know we'll
paint that for free or that'sincluded, you know, in the quote
(08:32):
, but it wasn't put on the quote.
You know, maybe that's can besolved at the lowest level when
the production manager knowslike, hey, we said we're going
to do this, so let's go aheadand follow through and do it,
even though it might, you know,monetarily hurt the business,
but we want to follow throughwith what we said.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean we're, we're looking forcustomers for life.
Some are our crew leaders andproduction managers know that
that is.
That is absolutely thedirection that we want.
That autonomy, that decisionmaking.
You know it's, it's part of themarketing budget.
To be honest, you do a good job.
(09:10):
What better dollars are spenton marketing than taking care of
customers so they become repeatand referral?
Speaker 1 (09:16):
So yes, absolutely yeah, that's a great point.
A lot of people don't think oftheir customers as recurring you
know Revenue in this business.
Anyway, they, you know they'revery focused on getting the
customer and then producing thework, but then after that is
(09:38):
kind of not.
You know, now it's the nextgetting the next customer, so
not a lot of attention is ispaid on hey, this is a customer
that we're going to keep overthe you know their lifetime or
however long they'll be in thearea.
So that seems like that's adeliberate strategy on your part
(09:58):
.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Yeah, absolutely We've.
I'm going back to your originalquestion.
We inherited that mentality.
68% of our businesses repeatreferral.
So it's a heavy, heavy portionof our business and we want to
continue that because theclosing rate on those, as you
(10:19):
know is, Is much, much higherand a lot easier.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
So what programs do you have in place to make sure
customers are reactivated orturn into customers again?
Speaker 2 (10:39):
What do you mean?
Are you talking SOPs?
Are you talking software?
What are you talking about?
Speaker 1 (10:49):
You mentioned that we take care of our customers so
that they come back to us later.
Do you have a system to reachout to them periodically to see
if they need help, like a directmail or email?
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Yeah, we use.
You can use any one of them,but we chose constant contact.
We also have our customerdatabase.
I know we're talking about ithere but we use work glue for
that, for our customer database,and spit that off.
There's different categories ofhow we track people within
there and they become a referralclient at that point and that
(11:29):
list gets exported to constantcontact and that's how we
continue that path.
There's other areas to market.
To existing customers Say it'sa residential repaint that you
finish so you can mark a datewithin the system that we've
created and follow up two yearslater, a year later, and say,
hey, reaching out, probably agood idea that we do a power
(11:51):
wash maintenance check on yourproperty.
It's been two years XYZ.
So we kind of put a monthlylist together based on finished
date of that repaint and kind ofhit those lists as going
forward.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Okay, so you have a life cycle kind of planned out
for like an exterior repaint.
You know that two years fromnow we should be reaching out to
them to do a pressure wash, andso they're like in a constant
contact workflow that follows upwith them.
You know, two years from thatpoint, or make sure that we send
(12:31):
off that.
So that's kind of built intothe system where you have
different milestones to reachout to folks.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Yeah, exactly, most of it's trigger and status of
the customer.
That's how we kind of track it.
There's multiple ways to setthat up.
I hire smart people much morethan me to handle that.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
But that's awesome.
You mentioned work glue.
How did work glue come about?
I know I've read in thebeginning about your bio.
Basically, you built work glueto solve problems that you had
in your current business, socould you go through, I guess,
(13:14):
what those problems were, whatwas the work glue fixing and how
did that actually come about?
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Good question.
When I came into the office soI was.
I went off to college, did thecorporate world thing realized
that wasn't really my.
My speed was.
I wasn't built for that myfather offered me the
opportunity to come back intothe family business, so I did
that, and prior to being able tocome into the office, though,
(13:40):
he forced me to work in thefield.
Excuse me, in working in thefield as a crew leader, learn
from the bottom up basically howoperations worked and such Well
as I was going through thatprocess about a year and a half
in our office, manager of 15years, who essentially was every
(14:01):
SOP on the back end, went outovernight with a career ending
illness, and I was brought intothe office overnight and had to
figure out all the systems.
We didn't use very muchtechnology back then this is in
the early 2000s, still veryheavily Microsoft based and then
(14:22):
we decided I started chippingaway at things.
I needed a CRM, I neededtimekeeping system, I needed
payroll system, accounting, youknow all the buckets that you
need to kind of fill to run thebusiness.
I started doing all these oneoff apps out there, so before I
knew it, I was logging intoeight different apps and it
became cumbersome, difficult tomanage my business.
(14:45):
Nothing really sank.
It was kind of double entry,quadruple entry.
So I met a software developerthrough a friend and here
locally in the Bay Area and Iwas kind of telling him exactly
what I needed to kind of pairthese few things.
So he built some custom stufffor me and I had a little, you
(15:07):
know, kind of a littlehodgepodge system.
That was married and I was at aPDCA event and a residential
forum and some other paintingcontractors saw what I was
logging into and looking at mybusiness from the computer and
they were like hey, what is that?
And I kind of showed them.
They actually forced me to comeup and do a little presentation
(15:27):
and half the room was like howdo I get that, you know?
So before I knew it I called mysoftware guy.
I had no intention of gettinginto the software world but I
said I think we might havesomething here.
So that's how Workloo was born.
We brought on a few earlyadopters and some investment and
really kind of grew the productand I actually was just using
(15:52):
it and a lot of people, a lot ofcontractors over the years
since then have really builtWorkloo together.
So it's built based on thecontractor's perspective, which
is a really neat thing, becauseI think that's a different
perspective when it comes tosoftware today.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
So yeah, that's the.
That's always the best.
Software is where the founderbuilt it to solve his own issues
, so that's it's alwaysrefreshing to, instead of like
an outsider trying to figure out, like, what's going on.
And so, like, for example,paint scout, they, you know they
(16:30):
were solving their issue withestimating and so they created
paints, paint scout, which Ithink paint scout and work.
We work pretty well together,if I'm not mistaken.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Correct, yeah, yeah, john and I over there we kick
things back and forth.
They're a great product, verycompany.
Workloo does not do estimating.
We directly sync with back andforth with paint scout, so it's
kind of a good little mirrorback and forth, a little merge,
as well as QuickBooks online andthat's kind of where you guys
(17:00):
come in.
So it's from A to Z throughthose three systems.
Obviously you have some oneoffs here and there and that's
where Zapier comes into playtoday.
Yeah, essentially what Workloodoes, what it solves today's
problems, your biggest bucketsit's a project management system
(17:21):
.
So it starts off when you closethe deal.
It becomes a job and at thatpoint you start scheduling
either employees or subs inthere, start tracking different
costs, make expenses.
Within that you'recommunicating in Workloo from
the office to the field.
We have a mobile app that allthe field crews or subs can use
(17:43):
and they get all the details ofthe project, find out what
they're doing, when, so on andso forth.
And from there, so you'rescheduling your employees,
you're scheduling the job itself.
So there's two differentschedules that a lot of people
forget to think about.
You have your employees thatyou're scheduling, or subs, and
then you have the actual jobschedule, which is in the future
(18:04):
date, right, so I'm doing Danny, I'm doing your house in
September.
I need to get that on theschedule.
I don't know who's there yet,but I'm plugging it on there, so
Workloo helps you with that.
And then there's a bunch ofother bells and whistles in
between that help you manage theproject from A to Z.
Once it closes out, it syncswith QuickBooks Online so you
(18:26):
can bill it and track, changeorders and stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
That's awesome.
So since you've been workingwith Workloo because it's been
you guys have been in businessfor what?
Speaker 2 (18:40):
10 years for a little while right, realistically,
probably since 2017 is when wereally really launched.
So 10 years moving at it, yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
So what have you seen in terms of numbers, because
I'm sure you have a lot of datain Workloo.
What does a healthy paintingbusiness look like in terms of
how much should they be payingfor labor or materials and that
kind of thing?
Speaker 2 (19:07):
It depends.
I mean, a commercial businessversus a residential is going to
be a little bit different.
But if you're primarilyresidential you're anywhere from
, I see, 25 to 35% labor is kindof a healthy business.
Around 10 to 15% material andsundries are in there.
That's kind of the typical.
(19:29):
Obviously, material is going togo up.
On the commercial side Labormight drop a little bit more
because you're offsetting thatwith, maybe, equipment that
you're renting or anything likethat or assets you might
purchase and build back.
But yeah, that tends to be thesweet spot for labor.
One thing that I also do trackin my company is sundries and
(19:57):
inventory, so that kind of syncsup.
So when you bill out sundrieswe do some larger projects.
So sundries do come into play.
When you're ordering rolls androlls and rolls of tape, those
do add up.
But on the average residentialproject it's probably not even
worth tracking almost becauseit's taken too much time to
(20:17):
track.
That tends to be the big bucketsfor me for what I'm seeing.
We could get probably prettyinto the weeds, but most people
probably don't want to hear metalk about that.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
For labor.
You said 25% to 35% for directlabor on the job side, the crews
on the job side right, that'swhat we're talking about there,
correct, okay?
So I think some peoplelistening might be like, wow,
that's not a lot at all, becauseI've seen folks pay 50% to
labor.
So, basically, from what you'veseen, healthy painting
(21:00):
businesses, basically theirlabor is 1 fourth of the revenue
, 1 fourth to 1 third of therevenue that they bring in,
which is Correct 33%, I think isthe average, even if you jumped
up to 37, I think you'rehealthy.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
But if you're in the 50% labor range, that does a
tough gross profit margin to beworking with.
Don't get me wrong.
Ours does increase during thewinter time to keep our guys
busy, so we tend to knock thatGP down.
A healthy GP that I'm seeingtoday excuse me, a healthy GP
(21:41):
that I'm seeing is anywherearound 40 to 50%.
Is the healthy range that I seereally successful painting
companies hitting some up to 60%.
Something below that for me inmy perspective, since I run a
painting business, is A littledangerous.
(22:03):
There's not much room for air.
So something to be considering,Think about.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Yeah, that makes complete sense and it does
reflect what I see as well.
Like 40% is the minimum grossprofit, like after paying for
direct labor, direct materials.
40% needs to be a minimum,hopefully not shooting for 40%,
because that's like kind of thatthe average, but 50% is usually
(22:29):
at least a starting target andthen as you grow and everything,
maybe even getting that up to55 or maybe even 60% for some
folks, that's yeah, thatdefinitely reflects what I've
seen for sure.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
And it also depends on your you know supply and
demand current economy.
Like we were trying to hit 60%for the last few years because
there were such good years thatyou couldn't get to everything,
so you wanted to bid things alittle bit higher and take the
premium.
But now that it's slowlyshifted a little bit, now we're
shooting for 55, 50.
(23:05):
So it kind of depends on themarket as well.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
What things have you used in your business to get
your gross profit to hit, youknow, 55 or 60% gross profit?
What things have youimplemented in the business,
whether it's systems or softwareor whatever?
Speaker 2 (23:23):
it is.
Yeah, I think it's.
You can use whatever systemsyou want, as long as you.
I think a great starting pointis a system SOPs.
If you're into standardoperating procedures, those
things are something that you'rea repeatable process.
You want to get those on inwriting.
You want to get everyonefollowing the same standard
operating procedure because thenit's repeatable.
(23:48):
A perfect example for us ischecklists.
We use checklists withinWorkloo and while people are out
on their mobile app.
In the field we have standardoperating procedures for
checklists.
Say, we're starting your houseto paint your house, daniel, our
crew leader knows to meet withyou.
He's a checklist on his appthat he clicks each button and
writes a note.
Met with owner.
(24:08):
Owner's expectations are XYZ.
Next question where should weput our job shop right?
The stuff we're bringing onsite Location takes a picture of
that, puts it in the checklist.
So it just makes that crewleader follow the questions that
we want them answered on dayone Did we find any scratch
(24:31):
glass, any broken materials,anything like that?
They take the picture and putit in on the checklist.
So we kind of have thatdocumented before we even get
started.
Another one checklist that wehave is the closeout process.
So how, how?
I want that to roll everysingle time so we don't skip a
step.
So I don't personally, as theowner or project manager, have
(24:52):
to be on site and make sure thatstuff gets done.
So that's a, that's kind of anexample how we use it.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Yeah, that's, that's awesome.
So basically, they're usingworkload to go through step by
step for each project.
They have a checklist theyfollow and then they notate,
check it off, notate what theydid, or would take a picture of
of the, of where they're storingthe tools in between.
(25:20):
You know when they're going tocome back next, and so you can
you can.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
You can build custom checklist however many you want,
a whatever stage or project,and it's pretty open source so
you can kind of build that.
Another thing that we do isdaily job logs.
The crew leaders responsible toput in at the end of the day,
take pictures and and most ofthem use like the voice
microphone on the phone and talkinto it about explaining what
(25:45):
they got accomplished for thatday and what their plan is for
tomorrow and any issues thatcame up on that day they're
supposed to report and anyinjuries or anything like that
accidents or injuries.
So we capture that every daycomes in.
We have a daily job log reportthat we look at that the end of
the day or the early nextmorning.
So that way our crews are setup, have everything they need
(26:10):
and we continue to checkprogress.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
Okay.
So basically you're you'repreventing issues that you know
we're leaning forward, usingthat checklist to prevent issues
which would make things moreefficient.
Move makes for things, mootworks more smoothly.
And then you have those end ofjob, end of day job reports
which kind of make sure thatwe're ready for the next day.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
It sounds like Exactly and for, since a large
percentage of our business isrepeat, a lot of times we access
those job logs, going back andsaying, hey, you know, 656 years
down the road, how did we setup that scaffolding, how did we
set up the ladder work?
And we quickly can look atthose pictures back from the
(26:56):
previous project the next timewe go.
Same with managing colors andall that.
Like everything gets uploadedinto the system.
So we're much more efficient.
We're not matching colors a lot, we keep the formulas on file.
Another thing that, outside ofsoftware, that keeps us
efficient is we do weekly crewleader meetings.
(27:21):
So crew leaders report backwhere they're at on the project.
Paint Scout does a phenomenaljob of creating the estimate and
the work order at the same time.
So people know how many hoursare estimated on this project
and exactly what they're doing,with photos to boot.
So we provide those with ourcrew leaders and hold them
(27:41):
accountable.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
So they get the budget hours with everything
that was put in the proposal andtheir work order and then each
week you're reviewing okay, howdid we do on this job so far?
Or maybe it's done already.
And you're reviewing okay, youwere budgeted for this, what
actually happened.
And then you're saying, okay,what went wrong and what went
right?
Is that kind of what's going onthere?
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Exactly and we're not perfect.
Some guys slip up.
Some guys are better thanothers that reporting.
One thing we really are good atand people like yourself
appreciate that at the end ofthe month is we're on top of job
costing.
So we know exactly where we'reat on every single job, down to
(28:27):
every material receipt.
So that process really quick.
You can make it pretty slick.
Say, juan goes to the paintstore, picks up a five gallons
of paint.
The receipt comes in the email.
It automatically goes intoQuickBooks online.
We sync with QuickBooks.
That pulls into WorkLoose sothe guy out the field knows
(28:49):
exactly what they've spent onmaterial and labor at that
second.
So today's world is prettyfascinating.
It's pretty exciting in thepainting business in terms of
leveraging technology if you doit right, and it really helps
improve efficiency.
That I've learned.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
Do you reward your crews if they come in under
budget or anything like that?
Speaker 2 (29:12):
So we have a performance bonus system that
there's kind of five checks forevery job we track for the crew
leader.
Is the customer happy?
It's yes or no?
These are all not subjective,these are just yes or no
questions.
Did they get the job logs infor every single day, yes or no?
Were they under 10% underbudget on hours, yes or no?
(29:37):
And did they get the customerfeedback?
Did they get the?
We have a form that we give thecustomer.
It's got customer report card.
Did they get a nine or 10 onthat?
And then the last one is didthey hit their production hours,
budgeted production hours forthe month as a whole Meaning,
(30:00):
did they work, say they have 80hours for two weeks?
Did they work the full 80 ordid they not work the full 80?
Speaker 1 (30:08):
Okay, and that nine or 10, is that the net promoter
score system Correct?
Yeah, pretty much.
Okay, awesome.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
So they have those five things that they need to
hit and if they do, so if youfollow EOS, that is their number
right, those are their KPIsthat they're trying to hit.
My production manager isrequired to hit a certain GP
based on all that.
So if we're doing our job onthe estimating side at a certain
(30:38):
gross profit margin, that we'rebidding and holding our
production managers accountableto those numbers, and he's
hitting those numbers and thecrew's hitting those numbers.
All of us are hitting ournumber that we're trying to
follow.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
So everyone's moving in the same direction and is
there.
So they get like a bonus eachmonth If they quarter.
We do a quarterly bonus.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
All of those add up to five points per job.
So if you're hitting yourpoints every month, you can earn
up to 5% of your W2 per quarter.
Nice.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Okay, that's good, all right.
So what kind of futuredevelopments does Workloo have
going, because I know you guysare constantly improving the
software, because I knowPayneScout, I think, was added
in the last year or so and youhave integrations with Zapier
(31:36):
set up.
Is there anything else, newfeatures or developments coming
down the pike?
Speaker 2 (31:42):
Yeah, we have a few payroll developments happening,
payroll syncs with a fewdifferent companies, direct
syncs that are gonna be prettyrobust and pretty exciting on
that end in terms of HR.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
The mobile app the hours like syncing hours to
payroll.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Syncing hours, vacation time, sick pay there's
a whole list of other stuffthat's gonna happen over time.
And entering an employee onetime and it syncs back and forth
.
You don't have to enter it inmultiple areas.
The other one that we justreleased.
It actually it's prettyexciting.
Our mobile app just had a hugeupdate so now you can access
(32:24):
documents and photos within thefrom the field.
So once you can make certaindocuments public to the company
or whoever as a user is orcertain kind of hidden.
So there's two categories therefor the guys out in the field
Now they can pull up any scopeof work documents schedule.
You know, maybe a designer senta PDF schedule.
(32:45):
You can upload that intoWorkBow and the guys in the
field can access that Simplestuff like that.
The mobile app also justupdated the timekeeping piece to
where now there's multiplelayers.
You can enter the cost codesand stuff like that if you track
cost codes so you can take itin the extra deep layer on that.
(33:06):
So it's constantly improving.
We always have improvementsrolling.
Our improvements withPaintScout continue to roll out
as well.
As they improve, we improve andvice versa.
Same with QuickBooks online.
Quickbooks continues into.
It continues to produce betterand better APIs out there, so
(33:28):
their API is constantlyimproving, and so do we.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
What should folks do if they're interested in
reaching out to you or tointerested in using WorkLU in
their own business?
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Yeah, Phil.
You can always email me,johnjohn at workluecom, or you
can go to the website workluecomand all you need to do is click
on schedule a free demo ortraining and that will set you
up immediately and you can findout and do a little tour and go
from there.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
Awesome, yeah, and I highly recommend WorkLU.
We have several clients thatuse you guys and they love the,
like you said, the way itintegrates with PaintScout and
then also QuickBooks online andit keeps their business running.
So definitely highly recommendyou check out WorkLU if you
haven't already, and with thatwe'll wrap things up here.
(34:20):
Love to hear your thoughts andthe Grow your Painting Business
Facebook group.
If you're not already a member,feel free to go to Facebook,
type in Grow your PaintingBusiness and join the group, ask
questions about WorkLU and giveany feedback on future podcasts
.
Love to hear from you and withthat we will see you next week.
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