July 30, 2025 • 43 mins
In this episode of the Profitable Painter Podcast, host Daniel Honan (CPA and former painting business owner) sits down with Russell Peach, founder of Peach Painting, to uncover the strategies behind scaling a painting business from $500K to a projected $7M in revenue.
Russell shares his incredible journey, from starting with full-home remodels to niching down into commercial painting, and finally pivoting to residential painting, where he achieved explosive growth. Learn how he:
- Transitioned from commercial to residential painting and why it was a game-changer.
- Scaled rapidly by focusing on systems, marketing (like Facebook ads), and hiring the right people.
- Maintained high profit margins (65%+ gross profit) while growing revenue.
- Structured his team with incentives to drive performance in sales, operations, and customer satisfaction.
- Overcame challenges like cash flow, labor shortages, and inconsistent workloads.
Whether you're a painting contractor looking to scale, struggling with profitability, or just starting out, this episode is packed with actionable insights to help you build a more profitable and sustainable business.
đź“Ś Key Takeaways:
âś… Why niching down into residential painting unlocked massive growth.
âś… How to balance speed-to-lead marketing with profitability.
âś… The importance of incentivizing your team to align with business goals.
âś… Lessons from losing money early on, and how Russell bounced back stronger.
FREE WEBINAR ALERT: Want to stop overpaying in taxes? Join our free webinar: “Making More Money and Saving on Taxes: Bookkeeping for Painters” happening August 5th. Save your spot here: https://bookkeepingforpainters.com/WebinarÂ
On August 5th 2025, I’m hosting a free, live webinar revealing:
✅ How to pay way less in taxes—legally
âś… The simple ratio top painting businesses use to grow profits fast
âś… What the top 20% of painters are doing differently
Go to BookkeepingForPainters.com/Webinar to register now!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Profitable Painter Podcast.
The mission of this podcast issimple to help you navigate the
financial and tax aspects ofstarting, running and scaling a
professional painting business,from the brushes and ladders to
the spreadsheets and balancesheets.
We've got you covered.
But before we dive in, a quickword of caution.
While we strive to provideaccurate and up-to-date
financial and tax information,nothing you hear on this podcast
(00:22):
should be considered asfinancial advice specifically
for you or your business.
We're here to share generalknowledge and experiences, not
to replace the tailored adviceyou get from a professional
financial advisor or taxconsultant.
We strongly recommend youseeking individualized advice
before making any significantfinancial decision.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Welcome to the Profitable Painter Podcast, the
show where painting contractorslearn how to boost profits, cut
taxes and build a business thatworks for them.
I'm your host, Daniel Honan,CPA and former painting business
owner, and your guide tomastering the numbers that drive
success.
So let's dive in and make yourbusiness more profitable, one
episode at a time.
Super excited today to speakwith Russell Peach over at Peach
(01:04):
Painting.
Welcome to the podcast, Russell.
How's it going?
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Yeah, Daniel, Everything's going great.
Man Appreciate you having me onthe pod.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
I'm excited to dive into things.
You've built an incrediblebusiness over there in Tampa Bay
, florida, just down the roadfrom me.
I'm in Orlando, but I'm excitedto get into things.
Just to give people kind ofcontext how did you get started
in the painting industry andwhat's been your journey along
the way with, like, some majormilestones?
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Yeah, for sure, definitely I'll tell you the
whole startup.
So this year, in a couplemonths, that'll be September.
Well, september this year I'llbe hitting 10 years in business,
my first seven years I was well.
My first two years I was doingfull home remodels and swinging
the hammer, doing sub floors,doing some roofing stuff, custom
(01:51):
cabinetry, and the company wascalled Peach Maintenance at the
time.
Then just wasn't sustainable.
It was really hard hiring,training people.
So we ended up I learned how topaint through one contractor I
was just getting I was being asubcontractor for everybody
learned how to paint and I'mlike man, I love this.
It's just one thing I canactually hire people, that I
(02:13):
don't have to pay 30, 40 bucksan hour to know how to fully
rehab a house.
So it seemed like a moresustainable, scalable way just
offering one service.
So we ended up refocusing, justniching down just on painting.
We were doing commercialapartments, so interior turns
Ended up taking that up to about200 apartments a month, which
(02:36):
was pretty good for the time.
But it was less than half amillion about $400,000 or
$500,000 a year and kind of keptit flatline there.
Always wanted to break in.
The residential paintingindustry Didn't know podcasts
like this or conferences likePCA Expos all existed, so didn't
know how to break into it, butI ended up learning about it.
That was about, I'd say, aboutthree years ago and dove deep
(02:59):
into residential painting.
Ended up burning the boats,jumped completely off board at
all my commercial accounts andjumped right into residential
painting.
So now we're just doinginterior painting, exterior
painting and cabinet painting asof now.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Awesome.
So basically, you kind of startout trying to do a lot of
different things, found out thatthat's hard.
So let me focus on one thing.
And so you're focusing onpainting, doing the commercial
side, doing apartment repaintsand then a few years ago found
out about what you can make inthe residential repaint side, so
(03:39):
got into that, focused on thatdoing interior and exterior and
cabinets and got rid of all thecommercial and just focused on
residential and from there Imean you've blown up in terms of
revenue.
You mentioned in the third yearyou were doing the third year
of business, which was aboutseven years ago.
You were doing about four tofive hundred thousand in revenue
(04:00):
.
What was it looking like now,since you've shifted focus into
residential?
Yeah well good question.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
It was actually up to about year six, year seven,
that I was only doing about$400,000 to $500,000.
So year seven to 10, the firstyear after that first year we
jumped into residential.
We doubled up.
I think we hit like right abouta million bucks the first year
of residential painting.
Next year we only had like a.
We grew only to like 1.5million Next year, which was
(04:30):
last year we only did about twoand a half million.
Now this year we've alreadysurpassed our full last year's
revenue.
So we're hoping to hit 7million this year.
Just on the painting side, Ialso have a flooring company
that we're trying to hit $2million on.
We're a little bit behind ourgoals now but it's still quarter
three.
We still have two more quartersto catch up, but I'll be happy
with $6 million out of thepainting company this year.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
That's awesome.
So huge amount of growth overthe last three years.
I mean you're $1 million to$1.5 to $2.5 to $ to six or
maybe even 7 million this yearprojected.
So that's amazing.
That sounds like a lot of work,but I love how you you seem to
(05:15):
be learning quickly, like youdid a couple of years not
focusing on any particularservice, narrowed down onto
painting.
That was working okay, workingbetter.
But then you're like foundcommercial uh, I'm sorry, found
residential niche and thenstarted niching just on
residential and then that'sreally where things took off.
I guess, um, what attracted youto residential?
(05:40):
What was it that, uh, drew youto getting away from commercial
and getting into residential?
Speaker 3 (05:47):
Yeah.
So I love this question becauseyou know I get asked this a lot
and like just to backtrack.
I know you said you know wefound out that what we can make
off of residential.
It was a little bit about that,but I would say our margins
were 65 to 70% gross profit oncommercial.
So we were making good margins.
Just the top line revenuewasn't what we wanted it to be.
(06:10):
So the reason that we reallydove deep into residential is
our commercial was not able, weweren't able to build out a
calendar for four weeks, sixweeks it was.
It took a special person to beable, or a special painter to be
able, to profitably paintapartments.
You have to blow and go.
It's hard work.
(06:30):
You got to be in and out andthe the labor force is just
shrunk entirely to find thosespecial people.
So we jumped into residentialbecause we can build out not
only our calendar four, six,eight out but also now our labor
force went from here to justcompletely 10x, being able to
(06:50):
find people that are able topaint houses.
So between that then, of course, now we're able to book more
jobs, take on more crews.
All equals more profitabilityas well.
Now the gross profit marginssometimes are less than what we
were doing, but instead of doing$500 jobs, we're doing a $5,000
(07:11):
job, so it kind of all balancesout in a general sense.
So that's all really whatattracted me, and just being
able to scale the team a lotfurther.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Okay, so it sounds like your constraint when you
were doing commercial, thebottleneck in your business, the
constraint in your business wasyour labor.
Like you couldn't find theright people to do the work well
enough, profitably enough toactually grow past much, past
500,000.
Is that right?
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Yeah, that's right.
Secondary to that is, you know,we didn't have guaranteed work
all the time, because somemonths we would do 200
apartments and the next monthwe'll have 120 apartments.
Now that's 80 jobs.
That's a huge delta.
Sometimes we would have, youknow, sometimes even 200, 250
apartments in a month and wehave 10, 15 painting crews that
(08:03):
really want to work only for us,and at the time, of course, you
just want to have peopleworking directly for you, only
for you, and not just gettingwork from everywhere, because we
scheduled them out with such ashort timeline.
But so we'll have 10 or 15 crewsone month and the next month
we'll only have 120 apartmentsto paint.
Now we have 10 or 15 people onstandby, but we can only use six
(08:26):
people.
So now we keep that six people.
Then the rest of the peoplethat were relying on us for work
, they have to go find worksomewhere else.
Now the following month comesin and you, you're back to 200
plus apartments, but theyalready found a job with someone
else.
So now I'm back to the drawingboard.
So it was just such a very,such a variable that the the
amount of work that we had whatwasn't scale, so it was a
(08:50):
mixture between the two, thoughGotcha.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
So it was like almost like you would swing back and
forth between not having enoughpeople but then not, but then
not having enough work, or youknow you didn't have enough job
flow, enough leads coming in forthe commercial side, so the
acquisition was for for leadswas that, it just wasn't as
(09:12):
dependable.
It sounds like.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
Yeah, well, because it was all it's all relationship
.
You can't really run PPC, youcan't run Facebook ads for stuff
like this.
And then when you get in withthe community, you want to be
the only contractor for paintingthat they use.
You don't want them to usethree different painters because
sooner or later they're goingto start liking this other
painter more.
He'll have more availability.
Next thing, you know thataccount is gone.
So when you get a full accountyou want every single paint job
(09:38):
that they, that they have tooffer.
So it's like I could go try toget more apartment communities
this month and it might help methis month, but the next month I
won't have enough crew membersand vice versa.
So it's always a.
It was.
It was really tough, unlessyou're, unless, like right now,
I could probably go back to itand I could probably use some of
my residential painting crewsin the commercial, but it's just
, it's too much of a headacheand too much management now.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
So Gotcha, okay, and so then you're like all right,
well, residential is cool, causeI can, I can use, you know,
paid ads or different marketingto more reliably get consistent
work and then I can have a morestable workforce and that that
also might be a little bit lessdemanding.
(10:22):
Is that right?
Cause you were mentioning justthe, the, the, to hit the
margins you need in commercial,or at least the commercial you
were doing.
You had to do it so fast thatit was hard to find skilled
enough workers to execute thatlevel of work.
And so residential, not asfocused on speed.
So was the thinking like, like,when I can get more consistent,
(10:43):
uh lead flow just based off ofpaid ads, and then also I can
maybe find labor a little biteasier, it's more stable, is
that?
Was that the thinking there?
Speaker 3 (10:54):
Oh, absolutely, yeah that.
And then just making sure thatone month that we're not just
the, the cashflow you know,you're, you're a CPA and I'm
sure it's frustrating to see acompany up here riding high on
their deposits and the nextmonth they're down bottom and
then just up and down that graph.
So we wanted to just at leastbe straight lined and then going
up on the graph, betweeneverything you said plus that,
(11:19):
absolutely.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
And the cash flow, because I'm assuming your
payment schedules for commercialweren't the best.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
Man 60 days, 90 days.
It was met whenever they feltlike it basically is what we
call it.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
That's rough.
Yeah, that's tough.
A lot of folks that are inresidential now they're thinking
, man, I wish I had somecommercial.
But then they get into it andthey're like, oh, this sucks.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
You know I don't have any money.
Yeah, I think that some peoplethink that it's all sunshine and
rainbows.
They see the six figurecontracts and then they don't
realize you bite more than youcan chew.
It can literally put you out ofbusiness.
There's other ways to leverageit.
A lot of people don't knowabout lines of credits or
getting a loan for your AR, sothere's other ways to do it.
(12:08):
But back then I had no ideaabout lines of credits or
nothing like that.
So I was straight bootstrappingeverything and I'm 20 years old
18 years old and I'm justpaying my guys and I don't even
have any money to even pay forfood for myself.
I'm just paying my guys and Igot like six figures out
accounts receivables.
(12:28):
I know I'll get it one day, butI don't have it now.
So it was really tough and justreally volatile.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Yes, yeah, definitely .
Something we see a lot is youreally have to have really good
financials where you understandhow much money you've made,
because the cash flow is sosporadic.
You have to have really goodfinancials where you understand
your how much money you've made,because, because the cash flow
is so sporadic, um, you have tohave really good financials
accrual based accountingbasically and then have that
line of credit or factoring yourinvoices, uh, some sort of plan
(12:55):
, backup plan if you run out ofcash.
But it seems like the mostsuccessful painting businesses
that do commercial they'reactually doing residential 60%,
50, 60% of the time to help themwith the cashflow Cause.
Residential side you take a 50%deposit and you get a lot of
cash out front and that can helplike kind of save you on the
(13:17):
commercial side because you haveyour payment schedules are so
bad but the residential cashflowis so good.
So some folks like to balancethe two where they're doing 50%
residential, 50% commercial orsomething like that.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
But yeah, there's ways now to that.
That I know now.
But it really depends on like.
There's a few things that Iwant to say on that, because it
depends on, like, your scarcitymode.
If you're like scarcity and youscared to negotiate terms with,
with whatever contractor orwhatever property management
group you're working for, you'reprobably going to say, hey, net
(13:53):
30.
Ok, no problem, I need the workand I want to keep my guys busy
.
I'll take it.
And then, deep down in the backof your head, you might be like
, oh, I don't know if I haveenough money, but I'll figure it
out, you know.
But now we're going to bestarting to dip heavily into
commercial by the end of thisyear, within this this quarter
or quarter four, and definitelyin 2026.
And a big part of our focus isgoing to be just, we don't need
(14:15):
the work.
We have so much work on ourother side of the company.
So if, whatever contracts we'redoing, we're going to be
negotiating terms, 25% upfrontdraw, schedules, etc.
Which is going to help cashflow as well.
So there's different ways.
But if I needed the workabsolutely needed, it didn't
have anything else I'd say, hey,pay me whatever.
Net 30, net 60, great Got tokeep the business alive.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Now that's a great point.
You're stable on theresidential side, so you're kind
of using that as leverage tonegotiate with your commercial
projects to like don't, don'treally need it because I could
get it, you know can get work onthe residential side.
But if you want to work with us, 25 down and and, uh, you know
they can, they can pay or not,not pay, but it's up, you know,
(15:00):
because you have that otheroption, just doing residential,
you're in a stronger position tonegotiate.
So I love that yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
And the second part too.
I see a lot of the othersuccessful commercial painting
contractors just doing massivecommercial like doing 20, 30, 40
million dollars a year whereusually cash flow is not the at
that point Cash flow is theeasiest.
It's all people problems,management problems, leadership
crews the easiest, it's allpeople problems, management
problems, leadership crews.
(15:27):
So it's either.
So it's tough when you're goingfrom like zero to five million
or so trying to jump into thatcommercial game unless you're
heavily negotiating terms.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Awesome, love it, okay, cool.
So let's talk about making thetransition to residential.
You grew very quickly.
Your first year in residential,you were at $1 million in
revenue and this you know.
A few years later, you'reprojected to hit $6 million.
So that sounds like a lot ofwork, a lot of pain.
(15:57):
What are some of the biggestchallenges that you faced during
this period last few years ofscaling that quickly?
Speaker 3 (16:06):
Biggest challenges is time, because 24 hours a day is
not enough, it seems like.
But no, the number one issue isgoing to be people and of
course you know, if you'resomebody like me, you have an
open heart and you want to givepeople benefits of doubt or you
want to trust more than maybeyou should.
So put a lot of eggs and put alot of trust into certain people
(16:28):
.
So maybe they're the rightpeople in the wrong seat, maybe
they're the you know the wrongseat, right person.
But either way, I think the thepeople has been the biggest
thing.
Systems is another part of it,of course, when you're just
falling on your face andwhatever I learned in my lesson
here.
I lost money on this job, butI'll fix the system, make sure
(16:50):
it doesn't happen again.
But something that helped mewith systems and just the
massive growth has been a lot ofcoaches.
I've spent so much money oncoaches to help us compress time
, but I'd say at this stage ofbusiness, it's just a lot of
coaches.
They've spent so much money oncoaches to help us compress time
, but I'd say at this stage ofbusiness, it's just a people
game now.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
And what do you consider this stage?
What kind of level is justpeople problems?
Speaker 3 (17:13):
Yeah, I'd say probably 5 million plus 5
million plus.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Okay, so it sounds like the biggest challenges from
going from you know, basicallystarting in residential you did
first year a million to about 6million Now.
The biggest challenges youfaced so far has been people and
in systems.
Did you face the systems issuesfirst and then now it's more of
(17:38):
a people issue, or was it viceversa?
Speaker 3 (17:41):
Yeah, yeah, that's a great point.
Yeah, that was the first thingthat I was facing is all systems
, and then it just snowballedinto the people with the systems
.
Like revamping a sales system,you know it takes a lot of long
time, takes a lot of money, alot of effort into rolling it
out Project management system,getting the right crews, whole
office back end of things,accounting, you know,
(18:02):
appointment setting, teams, allof that.
That's just getting the rightstructures, the right system.
Build out our SOPs and makingsure that we're overseeing it.
You have the manager over eachpart of the company to just
oversee, make sure everybody'sdoing what they're doing, and
then you slowly find out thatmaybe I put the wrong manager in
this seat, and then it goesinto into the people problem.
(18:22):
Basically, yeah, but are youwearing a lot of hats at the
same time while you're startingit up, though?
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Yeah, Are you a fan of traction the EOS?
Speaker 3 (18:35):
We're not running an EOS model.
I'd like to.
We just been in such massivegrowth spurt that I just you
know, that's a whole other thing, but I'd like to get to that
point though.
My cousin is actually an EOSinstructor.
Like he goes in and implementsEOS to a lot of different
companies.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Okay, You're using some of the terminology.
So I thought, maybe because,like people, are in the right
seats.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
That's a common thing that they say but yeah, okay,
I've read bits and pieces of it,but just haven't been an
implementer.
I'm a strong visionary, but myimplementation skills definitely
need to be polished, so that'swhy I know where my, where my
focus is, where my strong suitsare, and I fill the seats on
where my weak, weak spots areyeah, so let's talk about the
systems.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
I guess, guess you know, getting you know you were
starting from no residentialexperience to running a million
dollar residential paintingbusiness in the first year got
(19:44):
such great results apparentlythat really were the results, or
really drove the results ofwhat happened in the first year
or two in residential.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
Yeah, absolutely so.
The first one is probablywasn't the most sustainable and
it probably wasn't the mostscalable, but it was our old
sales system that we wererunning and I was always a fan
of.
If you can get the work Ialready have all these years of
experience in painting, but,granted, it's a different type
of painting, but painting ispainting.
(20:09):
So if I can just wear anotherhat and if I could sell it, and
then if I can also projectmanage it, I can hire the people
, we'll make it happen basically.
So I wasn't so focused on thePM side of things as it was just
on the sales.
So CRM sales and then, ofcourse, marketing, because with
no marketing, no leads, youcan't sell.
You can be the best salesperson, have the best sales system,
(20:30):
but if you don't get anyopportunity it doesn't even
matter.
So between sales and marketing,and then those were probably
the number one focus that firstyear yeah, what was your primary
acquisition uh channel formarketing in the first year to?
yeah, first year we were onlyfacebook.
(20:51):
It was probably 99 facebook.
The rest was just like eitherreferral, which was non-existent
because we're a brand newbusiness, or google, which was
non-existent because, again,we're a brand new business yeah,
that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
And so you went for the like outbound marketing from
from the start, which a lot offolks don't do and, uh, you know
, because they usually are doingthe repeat and referral slow
growth approach, which is, uh,the benefit of those is that
it's slow growth approach, whichis uh, the benefit of those is
that it's usually less expensivemarketing, but it's just slower
growth.
But you went for, okay, I'mgoing to go, I'm going to find
(21:27):
people to sign up and so that isbenefit is, you know, fast
growth.
The downside is that it's moreexpensive to to do that for
marketing, but it can stillobviously work.
So what, what?
What did you have a fear onCause some folks have fear, like
putting so much money into themarketing, and I guess, what
(21:48):
gave you the confidence and what?
What were the numbers lookinglike when you were starting to
put you know a lot of money intoFacebook ads to to get the
sales going?
Speaker 3 (21:56):
Yeah, so there's a few things I want to say on that
, and absolutely so.
The fear was non-existent forme.
I was 22, 23 years old, and Inosedived.
I bought into another businessbecause my commercial painting
business was just self-runningand I lost a massive amount of
money at a very young age,massive amount of money at a
(22:17):
very young age.
So I already I'm not gun shyanymore.
I already, I already took thathit.
I already knew what it feltlike and guess what?
I knew what it took to bounceback and I knew what it took.
I know where I'm at now.
Like that happened back then,but look where I'm at now.
So why would I think about whatif it doesn't work?
Because what if it does?
And I've always in the what ifit does, though you know, it's
(22:39):
always a glass half full, kindof thing.
So the next thing is that I'm aspeed to lead guy.
A lot of people will say, sure,it costs more money.
You got to spend five, 10,right now we're spending over 20
grand a month just on Facebookalone, facebook and Instagram.
But back then, you know, maybefive grand a month, four grand a
month, and I would argue that,yeah, it does cost more.
(23:03):
Yeah, it does cost morefinancially, the actual monetary
exchange.
But what is really morevaluable?
Is your time more valuable oris it going to be the monetary,
actual cash?
I would say your time is.
We don't know when our last dayon earth is going to be.
So maximize every moment thatyou have and speed things up.
(23:23):
So I'm just that.
That's how I am with everythingand, granted, it's not, some of
the things I do are just insaneand crazy, and a CPA like you
would probably be like Russ.
What are you even thinkingright now?
And I'm fine with thoseconversations.
It's all in my head and it's a,it's a vision that I have and
it always finds a way to getright back on track.
(23:44):
But that's always my idea withit.
I would rather spend money thanspend time, and a big part of
it.
I know that some people mightbe listening and be like man, I
just don't have the money, andit's totally understandable.
Not everybody has the money.
I was.
I wasn't born with money.
I bought my own first car.
I started a landscapingbusiness when I was 12 years old
(24:07):
.
I was always self-made.
I don't have any parents' moneyor anything.
It's completely me.
So I understand.
It's not like I.
You know I came into it withhandouts.
But what I what did help me isI had a strong commercial
painting business before Ijumped into residential, so that
fueled the fire intoresidential.
I was taking the money from thecommercial account, dumping it
into Facebook marketing, dumpingit into a sales coach, into
(24:29):
CRMs and ways to get systems tohelp me speed the lead there.
But if I didn't have that, I'dbe knocking doors, I'd be
putting out yard signs aroundtown, door hangers, cold calling
whoever walking into businesses.
There's any ways to beaggressive and just, and if you
can't spend the money there,there's a lot of other ways to
be aggressive and still speed upyour growth.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Yeah, that's awesome.
I love what you said, whereit's like we're talking about
the fear You're, you're like, uh, you know what's the worst.
Like, uh, you know what's theworst, you know what's the worst
that could happen if I put abunch of money into the
marketing and it doesn't work.
I mean, you know I learned, Iprobably learned something, but
it's you know, so a lot of thefear.
If you just dig a little bitdeeper, it's like what's the
(25:11):
worst that's really gonna happen.
You know there's some money,you probably learn some stuff
and probably do it better nexttime.
So I love that.
And then talking about you know, spending money instead of time
, so kind of digging into thedetails a little bit there, for
what your marketing spend waslooking like.
(25:33):
What do you do and this was awhile ago so you might not quite
remember but what were youspending on Facebook to actually
get a customer in the door?
Speaker 3 (25:47):
To be honest, my my backend.
I had no idea.
I just know that if I'm at orbelow 10% cost of marketing I'm
a happy guy.
But I never tracked cost peracquisition back then.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Okay, well, that's that's useful Cause if you just
know your average job size, likelike it was $5,000, then it's
probably $500, you know for whatyou're spending on marketing,
so which you know that thatthat's a great cause.
I mean, um, and I knew you wererunning really high margins and
commercial Did you.
(26:18):
Were you able to maintain thosehigh margins and residential as
well?
Cause you said it was like 65%gross profit on a commercial?
Did you maintain those marginsand residential?
Speaker 3 (26:29):
No.
So I was.
I was strategic with it.
I wanted to go in with makingless money at 40% gross profit,
45% gross profit, whatever tobuild the team.
How can I build the system?
So it goes back to what we weresaying of what's the worst that
can happen.
What if it works?
There's no losses, there's onlylessons.
(26:50):
So right now, my first year ofbusiness, I want to take as many
lessons as I can.
I'll sell jobs at a lesser costso I can build the crew and
I'll take my quote, unquotelosses or lessons from the crew
leads Cause I was running W2painters at that time from the
crew leads, from these new, fromthese new painters that we
(27:11):
bring on board board anybodyelse that's on the team.
I'll take my lessons.
I just need the opportunity.
You can't learn.
Everything sounds good intheory.
You can read these books, youcan go to seminars, conferences
Everything sounds good in theory, but it doesn't mean anything
if you don't do it and you don'timplement it into your own
business.
So I just need as muchopportunity as possible.
(27:31):
Now, fast forward.
That was 40, 45% gross profit.
Fast forward now.
Now we're back to about 60, 65.
I think last month we finishedout like 63% overall gross
profit on painting.
So we don't usually sell below60% gross profit now.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
That's awesome.
That is top tier gross profit.
There's 63%.
There's only been a handful oftimes where folks are hitting,
you know, 60, 65%.
So that that's awesome.
You're definitely in the toptier there.
(28:09):
So, but it sounds like youstarted with 45% gross profit
margins just getting into it,just so that you can learn how
to do things, how to execute,getting those jobs in.
And then, as you move throughthe last few years, you've been
just getting better and better,improving gross profit, and now
you're at 63% gross profit,which is awesome.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
Yeah, go ahead.
Yeah, but you know what DanielLike back then.
I mean there's jobs that I tookon 20% gross profit.
There's jobs that I lost moneyon or just broke even on.
I didn't care.
I was the project manager, Iwas the sales guy, I was doing
the office paperwork, I dideverything.
So it was my time.
I wasn't paying for people.
So if I just need to get a jobon calendar, if I have a crew, I
(28:57):
need to keep them busy and Ineed to learn everything.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
So I didn't even care if I broke even, basically, so
just to sorry, to cut you off,but like it did not matter at
that point, it just we had toget the opportunity.
Yeah, yeah, and um, that makessense.
I mean you're learning and uh,and just, you're basically
you're, you're trying toaccelerate things.
Right, you didn't want to wasteyour time, so you're pulling
forward those leads into nowgetting that quick growth and
(29:20):
learning as you go as quickly aspossible so that you could
accelerate faster.
So it makes sense from whatyou're saying.
And one of the things that weoften look at is, as you're
scaling so quickly, becauseyou're at $1 million, you're at
$1.5, then $2.5, now $6, is thegross profit to customer
(29:42):
acquisition cost ratio fivepercent.
And then customer acquisitionwas the ten percent for
marketing spend plus which youwere doing, the sales initially,
which usually a salesperson islike seven or eight percent of
what they close.
So your, um, your customer,your gross profit, a customer
(30:04):
acquisition cost sound like itwas just under three to one,
right around three to one ratio,which is like the minimum for
for scaling quickly.
And then, but now, since you'vekind of built the systems,
built the people you know, builtthe reputation.
Now your, your, your grossprofit at customer acquisition
cost is probably like six to one, since your gross profit so
(30:28):
higher, maybe even higher.
So it's just really cool to seehow you've you know so quickly
like learned, implemented andjust built an amazing business.
So kudos to you foraccomplishing that.
It's just amazing.
Yeah, no, I appreciate that.
Speaker 3 (30:47):
But it kind of has to be at that point too, because
the only way for somebody likeat 5 million plus or trying to
hit eight figures et ceterabecause, remember, we're running
a flooring business too and Imight hit 2 million, maybe a
million and a half 2 million, 2million is our actual goal for
flooring and to be able to havepeople in key leadership spots
(31:09):
we have to be able to pay themwell if they're going to be the
rock stars that we need.
So right now we have a directorof operations, we have an
operations manager role that'skind of taken over the director
of ops role, we have two PMs andwe have four people in our
office and, of course, our fullsales team.
(31:30):
So we have to be able to sellat more profitable amounts to be
able to pay these people whatthey're worth.
Otherwise we're just gonna havesubpar leadership and people
that are not standing by ourvision and not delivering the
top level of excellence that allof our clients deserve and what
we promise them during oursales presentation.
(31:52):
So that's, you know, 40, 45%gross profit.
I know Jason Phillips he's mymain mentor with sales he argues
heavily against the 40 to 50%gross profit.
You know, bucket that peopletry to be in, because he has
such a strong leadership team.
(32:12):
And that's why I'd implementedin my head why I pay my people
as as best as we can pay them.
Um, because it all starts fromthe sale gross profit.
We can.
We can pay them as much as we,as much as they're worth.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
Yeah, so talking about people.
So what are some of the keyrules as as you've grown from 1
million to 6 million?
What are some of the key roles?
As you've grown from 1 millionto 6 million?
What are some of the key rolesthat you've been able to put in
place, that you've really justopened up your growth?
Sure.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
So office manager.
She handles all of our expenses, all of our payroll.
She does like all of ourQuickBooks and kind of a
bookkeeper as well.
We have three people in ourcall center that are just making
and taking calls all day, everyday.
That's for new leads or inboundcalls, our clients calling the
office, etc.
(33:03):
Then we have right now we havelike a.
He's a hybrid between, like anoperations manager and a project
manager, but he's soon going tobe just an ops manager where
he'll oversee everything, all ofthe all of the production, and
then we're going to kind of getrid of that director of
operations role.
Then we had a sales manager forthe first, I think, five months
(33:26):
of 2025, and, um, it was amutual, mutual thing that we we
brought him back down to sales,uh, to sales.
So now I'm I'm acting as salesmanager and while while being
the business owner, of course.
And then I think right now wehave four sales reps me, uh,
we're bringing on a fifth andsixth sales rep next month and,
(33:46):
yeah, that's that's mainly the,the positions we're bringing on.
Actually, another, anotherproject manager.
So we have two project managersplus bringing on another one
next week, which he'll be ahybrid between a project
coordinator and a projectmanager, and then all of our
production, where we're ahundred percent subcontractor
based.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Gotcha, do you, do you have like compensate,
because the compensationpackages are can often really
drive performance.
Do you have any things thatyou've learned on compensating
team members, whether it's thesalesperson or the production
manager or whoever that thatyou've learned that's really
worked, or the things you'velearned that's not worked?
Speaker 3 (34:28):
Yeah Well, what doesn't work is to keep pushing
your team to perform at a highlevel and get as much
profitability and and notcompensate them at all for it.
Learn that a little bit, um, orjust throwing random bonuses
here and there, cause it's, it'sall feeling based.
That's that didn't work.
That was my story of my lifefor a while.
Just hey, this guy's been doinggreat here's.
(34:50):
Here's 200 bucks.
Hey, here's.
You know you've been crushingit for a while here's 500 bucks,
but it's not there's.
No, it's all feelings based.
So now we're rolling into, ofcourse, a percentage of change
or, like I'll go with projectmanagement, percentage of change
orders.
Then we have a cumulativemonthly goals for project
(35:11):
managers and then operationsmanager, because the operations
manager needs to make sure allof his PMs are meeting or
exceeding budget.
So we have a cost.
We give them a cost on everyjob and as long as he, you know,
meets that cost or falls belowthat cost, we'll combine all of
the jobs within one month andgive him X amount, whether it's
(35:32):
$500, $1,000, $2,000 bonuses ifhe meets his goal, because some
jobs, understandably, we mighthave a $1,500 cost on it, but
there's no way we can havesomebody do that job.
So he has to produce it for$1,800.
So he'll be over budget there.
But then the next job might bethe same cost $1,500.
And he knows he can save acouple hundred bucks, be at
(35:54):
$1,200 right there and they bothlevel out with each other.
So we do that within a wholemonth.
So that's the PM and then theops manager will both get
similar rewards for that, plus acertain amount percentage for
change orders.
Now for our sales we have ifthey break X amount of sales
dollars sold in a month or Xamount in a year, they'll.
(36:17):
The monthly will be just onelump sum bonus, but the yearly,
once they break like a millionand a half, they'll get an extra
percentage.
Break two and a half million,they'll get an extra percentage.
So on and so forth.
Our call center we have a fewdifferent goals.
They make a bonus, small bonusfor every single appointment
that they set.
And then they make a small.
(36:40):
It's not really that small butthey make a bonus.
We're around 50 to 52% set rate.
If they break 60% set rate in amonth, I give them a decent
bonus and if they break 70%,then we give them a really good
bonus.
So it's incentivizing them tostrategize, mastermind and come
up with the best strategies,even if our SOPs.
(37:00):
There's ways that we can tweakthem, because we always want
them to tweak our SOPs.
So if you find a better way todo something, you just let us
know, implement it, test it out,and if it gets us closer to our
goals, then great.
You're going to be compensatedaccordingly for it.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
It's awesome.
So it sounds like pretty muchmost of your team isn't.
Uh, you've set up bonusstructures that incentivize them
to hit your goals.
Yep, um.
And so for the productionmanager, basically if they are
at or with or below the cost ofservices for all the projects
overall for the month, whetherthat's, you know, cost of
(37:39):
services or you know 35, ifyou're hitting for 65 or 65
gross profit margin or 60 costof services for a 60 gross
profit margin, whatever yourtarget is, if they hit that or
go below it, then they get abonus for that month.
Then for the salespeople, theyhave certain targets, bonuses
for if they hit their salesgoals for the month and also for
(38:01):
the year.
And then call center, they areincentivized for each
appointment setting it, but alsooverall set rate to incentivize
the team to improve theprocesses.
So yeah, okay, oh, that's likeokay, that's that's awesome,
cause you're kind of like youknow gross profits important, so
(38:23):
you have the productionmanagers protecting that.
Um, obviously you want to keepdriving sales, so you get the
salespeople incentivized thatway and you're also helping with
the sales.
Uh, incentivizing the set rate,because you improve your set
rate by a few percentage points.
That's going to have hugeresults on your revenue because
(38:44):
you set 10 more appointments permonth.
That's going to be X amount ofextra money coming in on the top
line revenue for thesalespeople.
So, and and so you're.
You're basically incentivizingthe team to hit those, those
revenue goals, thoseprofitability goals.
Do you have any more that Iforgot about?
(39:04):
On, operation.
Speaker 3 (39:06):
So one is going to be collecting payment on time at
the final walkthrough.
So the problem that we wererunning into is we were running
so many jobs.
We have a project managerrunning 15, 20 jobs a week and
he got touch-ups at this job,touch-ups at that job, touch-ups
at that job.
Ultimately, we have a crazyamount out on accounts
(39:27):
receivable that just needs smallthings here and there for us to
receive final payment.
So our crews are upset.
They're not getting paidbecause they need to go back and
touch it up Me.
I'm looking at our P&L and I'mlike what's going on over here,
we're not collecting.
So rolling this out, anotherincentive for them to collect at
the final walk and then,secondary, to get a five-star
(39:52):
review at the final completionand then the five-star review
will kind of go into NPS, whichis net promoter score when the
project's completed.
That'll be more of anoperations manager incentive to
make sure that it's above, Ithink, like 90%, 95%.
Nps is what we're looking for.
I don't remember the exactnumber that we have in the SOP,
(40:13):
but basically just to make surethat we're delivering the top
tier experience that we're knownfor and that we're trying to
give.
So those are the other twoincentives I forgot about on the
ops side.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
I love it.
Yeah, collecting payments ontime, making sure that cashflow
stays good Cause if you don'thave cash, you don't have a
business so that's superimportant.
And then, obviously, customerexperience.
So I think you're hitting likeall the you've incentivized the
team with bonuses on like prettymuch all the key things that
(40:45):
you want in your business.
You want revenue, you want cash, you want to be profitable and
you want happy customers.
Speaker 3 (40:53):
I mean, if you have those things in business, yeah,
you know, the biggest thing isthat I just want them to have
the opportunity to, almost in ageneral sense, write their own
check.
You know, self-generate yourown leads.
You get extra couple percentagepoints for self-generating your
own leads.
So just go pound the pavementall day.
You can write your own check,you know, and then all these
other incentives just write yourown check, basically.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
Yeah, that's awesome Cool.
Well, hey Russell, you, you'vebeen super generous with your
time.
I've learned a lot.
I think this has been supervaluable for the, for the
audience.
Do you have any last thoughtsor ask of the audience before we
let you go today?
Speaker 3 (41:30):
No man I just you know I appreciate anybody, you
know listening.
I love giving back to theindustry any way possible.
I'm not sitting here, I don'tsell anything to the industry or
anything, I just love to hop in.
I go to conferences all thetime and just mastermind groups.
I'm in a lot of group chats sothere's always masterminding
with other business owners.
So you ever want to hit me up,ask any questions, feel free to
(41:53):
do so.
Facebook is a little bit toughto get ahold of me.
It just my messenger is alwaysflooded.
So I'm Russell Peach onFacebook, peach the Painter on
Instagram, so you ever have anyquestions.
Concerns I just love helping theindustry.
I didn't have a mentor, Ididn't have coaches the first
seven years of business, if webacktrack to that.
So if I can just help anybodyin the industry, it's just a
(42:14):
personal fulfillment thing thatI just love to do because I
never had that when I wasgrowing up, so happy to feel
free to reach out, happy to giveany insights.
But, daniel, I reallyappreciate you having me here
and definitely I was glad I wasable to drop some gems here.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
Yeah, no, it was great.
I really appreciate you,Russell, and you definitely have
.
Uh, I always see you at theevents and it's always great to
see you and you always have somegreat insights to provide.
So, um, I'm super excited thatyou came on the podcast and, for
all the listeners, uh, we'llsee you next week.
Welcome to the Profitable Painter Podcast.
The mission of this podcast issimple to help you navigate the
financial and tax aspects ofstarting, running and scaling a
professional painting business,from the brushes and ladders to
the spreadsheets and balancesheets.
We've got you covered.
But before we dive in, a quickword of caution.
While we strive to provideaccurate and up-to-date
financial and tax information,nothing you hear on this podcast
(00:22):
should be considered asfinancial advice specifically
for you or your business.
We're here to share generalknowledge and experiences, not
to replace the tailored adviceyou get from a professional
financial advisor or taxconsultant.
We strongly recommend youseeking individualized advice
before making any significantfinancial decision.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Welcome to the Profitable Painter Podcast, the
show where painting contractorslearn how to boost profits, cut
taxes and build a business thatworks for them.
I'm your host, Daniel Honan,CPA and former painting business
owner, and your guide tomastering the numbers that drive
success.
So let's dive in and make yourbusiness more profitable, one
episode at a time.
Super excited today to speakwith Russell Peach over at Peach
(01:04):
Painting.
Welcome to the podcast, Russell.
How's it going?
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Yeah, Daniel, Everything's going great.
Man Appreciate you having me onthe pod.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
I'm excited to dive into things.
You've built an incrediblebusiness over there in Tampa Bay
, florida, just down the roadfrom me.
I'm in Orlando, but I'm excitedto get into things.
Just to give people kind ofcontext how did you get started
in the painting industry andwhat's been your journey along
the way with, like, some majormilestones?
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Yeah, for sure, definitely I'll tell you the
whole startup.
So this year, in a couplemonths, that'll be September.
Well, september this year I'llbe hitting 10 years in business,
my first seven years I was well.
My first two years I was doingfull home remodels and swinging
the hammer, doing sub floors,doing some roofing stuff, custom
(01:51):
cabinetry, and the company wascalled Peach Maintenance at the
time.
Then just wasn't sustainable.
It was really hard hiring,training people.
So we ended up I learned how topaint through one contractor I
was just getting I was being asubcontractor for everybody
learned how to paint and I'mlike man, I love this.
It's just one thing I canactually hire people, that I
(02:13):
don't have to pay 30, 40 bucksan hour to know how to fully
rehab a house.
So it seemed like a moresustainable, scalable way just
offering one service.
So we ended up refocusing, justniching down just on painting.
We were doing commercialapartments, so interior turns
Ended up taking that up to about200 apartments a month, which
(02:36):
was pretty good for the time.
But it was less than half amillion about $400,000 or
$500,000 a year and kind of keptit flatline there.
Always wanted to break in.
The residential paintingindustry Didn't know podcasts
like this or conferences likePCA Expos all existed, so didn't
know how to break into it, butI ended up learning about it.
That was about, I'd say, aboutthree years ago and dove deep
(02:59):
into residential painting.
Ended up burning the boats,jumped completely off board at
all my commercial accounts andjumped right into residential
painting.
So now we're just doinginterior painting, exterior
painting and cabinet painting asof now.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Awesome.
So basically, you kind of startout trying to do a lot of
different things, found out thatthat's hard.
So let me focus on one thing.
And so you're focusing onpainting, doing the commercial
side, doing apartment repaintsand then a few years ago found
out about what you can make inthe residential repaint side, so
(03:39):
got into that, focused on thatdoing interior and exterior and
cabinets and got rid of all thecommercial and just focused on
residential and from there Imean you've blown up in terms of
revenue.
You mentioned in the third yearyou were doing the third year
of business, which was aboutseven years ago.
You were doing about four tofive hundred thousand in revenue
(04:00):
.
What was it looking like now,since you've shifted focus into
residential?
Yeah well good question.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
It was actually up to about year six, year seven,
that I was only doing about$400,000 to $500,000.
So year seven to 10, the firstyear after that first year we
jumped into residential.
We doubled up.
I think we hit like right abouta million bucks the first year
of residential painting.
Next year we only had like a.
We grew only to like 1.5million Next year, which was
(04:30):
last year we only did about twoand a half million.
Now this year we've alreadysurpassed our full last year's
revenue.
So we're hoping to hit 7million this year.
Just on the painting side, Ialso have a flooring company
that we're trying to hit $2million on.
We're a little bit behind ourgoals now but it's still quarter
three.
We still have two more quartersto catch up, but I'll be happy
with $6 million out of thepainting company this year.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
That's awesome.
So huge amount of growth overthe last three years.
I mean you're $1 million to$1.5 to $2.5 to $ to six or
maybe even 7 million this yearprojected.
So that's amazing.
That sounds like a lot of work,but I love how you you seem to
(05:15):
be learning quickly, like youdid a couple of years not
focusing on any particularservice, narrowed down onto
painting.
That was working okay, workingbetter.
But then you're like foundcommercial uh, I'm sorry, found
residential niche and thenstarted niching just on
residential and then that'sreally where things took off.
I guess, um, what attracted youto residential?
(05:40):
What was it that, uh, drew youto getting away from commercial
and getting into residential?
Speaker 3 (05:47):
Yeah.
So I love this question becauseyou know I get asked this a lot
and like just to backtrack.
I know you said you know wefound out that what we can make
off of residential.
It was a little bit about that,but I would say our margins
were 65 to 70% gross profit oncommercial.
So we were making good margins.
Just the top line revenuewasn't what we wanted it to be.
(06:10):
So the reason that we reallydove deep into residential is
our commercial was not able, weweren't able to build out a
calendar for four weeks, sixweeks it was.
It took a special person to beable, or a special painter to be
able, to profitably paintapartments.
You have to blow and go.
It's hard work.
(06:30):
You got to be in and out andthe the labor force is just
shrunk entirely to find thosespecial people.
So we jumped into residentialbecause we can build out not
only our calendar four, six,eight out but also now our labor
force went from here to justcompletely 10x, being able to
(06:50):
find people that are able topaint houses.
So between that then, of course, now we're able to book more
jobs, take on more crews.
All equals more profitabilityas well.
Now the gross profit marginssometimes are less than what we
were doing, but instead of doing$500 jobs, we're doing a $5,000
(07:11):
job, so it kind of all balancesout in a general sense.
So that's all really whatattracted me, and just being
able to scale the team a lotfurther.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Okay, so it sounds like your constraint when you
were doing commercial, thebottleneck in your business, the
constraint in your business wasyour labor.
Like you couldn't find theright people to do the work well
enough, profitably enough toactually grow past much, past
500,000.
Is that right?
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Yeah, that's right.
Secondary to that is, you know,we didn't have guaranteed work
all the time, because somemonths we would do 200
apartments and the next monthwe'll have 120 apartments.
Now that's 80 jobs.
That's a huge delta.
Sometimes we would have, youknow, sometimes even 200, 250
apartments in a month and wehave 10, 15 painting crews that
(08:03):
really want to work only for us,and at the time, of course, you
just want to have peopleworking directly for you, only
for you, and not just gettingwork from everywhere, because we
scheduled them out with such ashort timeline.
But so we'll have 10 or 15 crewsone month and the next month
we'll only have 120 apartmentsto paint.
Now we have 10 or 15 people onstandby, but we can only use six
(08:26):
people.
So now we keep that six people.
Then the rest of the peoplethat were relying on us for work
, they have to go find worksomewhere else.
Now the following month comesin and you, you're back to 200
plus apartments, but theyalready found a job with someone
else.
So now I'm back to the drawingboard.
So it was just such a very,such a variable that the the
amount of work that we had whatwasn't scale, so it was a
(08:50):
mixture between the two, thoughGotcha.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
So it was like almost like you would swing back and
forth between not having enoughpeople but then not, but then
not having enough work, or youknow you didn't have enough job
flow, enough leads coming in forthe commercial side, so the
acquisition was for for leadswas that, it just wasn't as
(09:12):
dependable.
It sounds like.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
Yeah, well, because it was all it's all relationship
.
You can't really run PPC, youcan't run Facebook ads for stuff
like this.
And then when you get in withthe community, you want to be
the only contractor for paintingthat they use.
You don't want them to usethree different painters because
sooner or later they're goingto start liking this other
painter more.
He'll have more availability.
Next thing, you know thataccount is gone.
So when you get a full accountyou want every single paint job
(09:38):
that they, that they have tooffer.
So it's like I could go try toget more apartment communities
this month and it might help methis month, but the next month I
won't have enough crew membersand vice versa.
So it's always a.
It was.
It was really tough, unlessyou're, unless, like right now,
I could probably go back to itand I could probably use some of
my residential painting crewsin the commercial, but it's just
, it's too much of a headacheand too much management now.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
So Gotcha, okay, and so then you're like all right,
well, residential is cool, causeI can, I can use, you know,
paid ads or different marketingto more reliably get consistent
work and then I can have a morestable workforce and that that
also might be a little bit lessdemanding.
(10:22):
Is that right?
Cause you were mentioning justthe, the, the, to hit the
margins you need in commercial,or at least the commercial you
were doing.
You had to do it so fast thatit was hard to find skilled
enough workers to execute thatlevel of work.
And so residential, not asfocused on speed.
So was the thinking like, like,when I can get more consistent,
(10:43):
uh lead flow just based off ofpaid ads, and then also I can
maybe find labor a little biteasier, it's more stable, is
that?
Was that the thinking there?
Speaker 3 (10:54):
Oh, absolutely, yeah that.
And then just making sure thatone month that we're not just
the, the cashflow you know,you're, you're a CPA and I'm
sure it's frustrating to see acompany up here riding high on
their deposits and the nextmonth they're down bottom and
then just up and down that graph.
So we wanted to just at leastbe straight lined and then going
up on the graph, betweeneverything you said plus that,
(11:19):
absolutely.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
And the cash flow, because I'm assuming your
payment schedules for commercialweren't the best.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
Man 60 days, 90 days.
It was met whenever they feltlike it basically is what we
call it.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
That's rough.
Yeah, that's tough.
A lot of folks that are inresidential now they're thinking
, man, I wish I had somecommercial.
But then they get into it andthey're like, oh, this sucks.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
You know I don't have any money.
Yeah, I think that some peoplethink that it's all sunshine and
rainbows.
They see the six figurecontracts and then they don't
realize you bite more than youcan chew.
It can literally put you out ofbusiness.
There's other ways to leverageit.
A lot of people don't knowabout lines of credits or
getting a loan for your AR, sothere's other ways to do it.
(12:08):
But back then I had no ideaabout lines of credits or
nothing like that.
So I was straight bootstrappingeverything and I'm 20 years old
18 years old and I'm justpaying my guys and I don't even
have any money to even pay forfood for myself.
I'm just paying my guys and Igot like six figures out
accounts receivables.
(12:28):
I know I'll get it one day, butI don't have it now.
So it was really tough and justreally volatile.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Yes, yeah, definitely .
Something we see a lot is youreally have to have really good
financials where you understandhow much money you've made,
because the cash flow is sosporadic.
You have to have really goodfinancials where you understand
your how much money you've made,because, because the cash flow
is so sporadic, um, you have tohave really good financials
accrual based accountingbasically and then have that
line of credit or factoring yourinvoices, uh, some sort of plan
(12:55):
, backup plan if you run out ofcash.
But it seems like the mostsuccessful painting businesses
that do commercial they'reactually doing residential 60%,
50, 60% of the time to help themwith the cashflow Cause.
Residential side you take a 50%deposit and you get a lot of
cash out front and that can helplike kind of save you on the
(13:17):
commercial side because you haveyour payment schedules are so
bad but the residential cashflowis so good.
So some folks like to balancethe two where they're doing 50%
residential, 50% commercial orsomething like that.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
But yeah, there's ways now to that.
That I know now.
But it really depends on like.
There's a few things that Iwant to say on that, because it
depends on, like, your scarcitymode.
If you're like scarcity and youscared to negotiate terms with,
with whatever contractor orwhatever property management
group you're working for, you'reprobably going to say, hey, net
(13:53):
30.
Ok, no problem, I need the workand I want to keep my guys busy
.
I'll take it.
And then, deep down in the backof your head, you might be like
, oh, I don't know if I haveenough money, but I'll figure it
out, you know.
But now we're going to bestarting to dip heavily into
commercial by the end of thisyear, within this this quarter
or quarter four, and definitelyin 2026.
And a big part of our focus isgoing to be just, we don't need
(14:15):
the work.
We have so much work on ourother side of the company.
So if, whatever contracts we'redoing, we're going to be
negotiating terms, 25% upfrontdraw, schedules, etc.
Which is going to help cashflow as well.
So there's different ways.
But if I needed the workabsolutely needed, it didn't
have anything else I'd say, hey,pay me whatever.
Net 30, net 60, great Got tokeep the business alive.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Now that's a great point.
You're stable on theresidential side, so you're kind
of using that as leverage tonegotiate with your commercial
projects to like don't, don'treally need it because I could
get it, you know can get work onthe residential side.
But if you want to work with us, 25 down and and, uh, you know
they can, they can pay or not,not pay, but it's up, you know,
(15:00):
because you have that otheroption, just doing residential,
you're in a stronger position tonegotiate.
So I love that yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
And the second part too.
I see a lot of the othersuccessful commercial painting
contractors just doing massivecommercial like doing 20, 30, 40
million dollars a year whereusually cash flow is not the at
that point Cash flow is theeasiest.
It's all people problems,management problems, leadership
crews the easiest, it's allpeople problems, management
problems, leadership crews.
(15:27):
So it's either.
So it's tough when you're goingfrom like zero to five million
or so trying to jump into thatcommercial game unless you're
heavily negotiating terms.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Awesome, love it, okay, cool.
So let's talk about making thetransition to residential.
You grew very quickly.
Your first year in residential,you were at $1 million in
revenue and this you know.
A few years later, you'reprojected to hit $6 million.
So that sounds like a lot ofwork, a lot of pain.
(15:57):
What are some of the biggestchallenges that you faced during
this period last few years ofscaling that quickly?
Speaker 3 (16:06):
Biggest challenges is time, because 24 hours a day is
not enough, it seems like.
But no, the number one issue isgoing to be people and of
course you know, if you'resomebody like me, you have an
open heart and you want to givepeople benefits of doubt or you
want to trust more than maybeyou should.
So put a lot of eggs and put alot of trust into certain people
(16:28):
.
So maybe they're the rightpeople in the wrong seat, maybe
they're the you know the wrongseat, right person.
But either way, I think the thepeople has been the biggest
thing.
Systems is another part of it,of course, when you're just
falling on your face andwhatever I learned in my lesson
here.
I lost money on this job, butI'll fix the system, make sure
(16:50):
it doesn't happen again.
But something that helped mewith systems and just the
massive growth has been a lot ofcoaches.
I've spent so much money oncoaches to help us compress time
, but I'd say at this stage ofbusiness, it's just a lot of
coaches.
They've spent so much money oncoaches to help us compress time
, but I'd say at this stage ofbusiness, it's just a people
game now.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
And what do you consider this stage?
What kind of level is justpeople problems?
Speaker 3 (17:13):
Yeah, I'd say probably 5 million plus 5
million plus.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Okay, so it sounds like the biggest challenges from
going from you know, basicallystarting in residential you did
first year a million to about 6million Now.
The biggest challenges youfaced so far has been people and
in systems.
Did you face the systems issuesfirst and then now it's more of
(17:38):
a people issue, or was it viceversa?
Speaker 3 (17:41):
Yeah, yeah, that's a great point.
Yeah, that was the first thingthat I was facing is all systems
, and then it just snowballedinto the people with the systems
.
Like revamping a sales system,you know it takes a lot of long
time, takes a lot of money, alot of effort into rolling it
out Project management system,getting the right crews, whole
office back end of things,accounting, you know,
(18:02):
appointment setting, teams, allof that.
That's just getting the rightstructures, the right system.
Build out our SOPs and makingsure that we're overseeing it.
You have the manager over eachpart of the company to just
oversee, make sure everybody'sdoing what they're doing, and
then you slowly find out thatmaybe I put the wrong manager in
this seat, and then it goesinto into the people problem.
(18:22):
Basically, yeah, but are youwearing a lot of hats at the
same time while you're startingit up, though?
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Yeah, Are you a fan of traction the EOS?
Speaker 3 (18:35):
We're not running an EOS model.
I'd like to.
We just been in such massivegrowth spurt that I just you
know, that's a whole other thing, but I'd like to get to that
point though.
My cousin is actually an EOSinstructor.
Like he goes in and implementsEOS to a lot of different
companies.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Okay, You're using some of the terminology.
So I thought, maybe because,like people, are in the right
seats.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
That's a common thing that they say but yeah, okay,
I've read bits and pieces of it,but just haven't been an
implementer.
I'm a strong visionary, but myimplementation skills definitely
need to be polished, so that'swhy I know where my, where my
focus is, where my strong suitsare, and I fill the seats on
where my weak, weak spots areyeah, so let's talk about the
systems.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
I guess, guess you know, getting you know you were
starting from no residentialexperience to running a million
dollar residential paintingbusiness in the first year got
(19:44):
such great results apparentlythat really were the results, or
really drove the results ofwhat happened in the first year
or two in residential.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
Yeah, absolutely so.
The first one is probablywasn't the most sustainable and
it probably wasn't the mostscalable, but it was our old
sales system that we wererunning and I was always a fan
of.
If you can get the work Ialready have all these years of
experience in painting, but,granted, it's a different type
of painting, but painting ispainting.
(20:09):
So if I can just wear anotherhat and if I could sell it, and
then if I can also projectmanage it, I can hire the people
, we'll make it happen basically.
So I wasn't so focused on thePM side of things as it was just
on the sales.
So CRM sales and then, ofcourse, marketing, because with
no marketing, no leads, youcan't sell.
You can be the best salesperson, have the best sales system,
(20:30):
but if you don't get anyopportunity it doesn't even
matter.
So between sales and marketing,and then those were probably
the number one focus that firstyear yeah, what was your primary
acquisition uh channel formarketing in the first year to?
yeah, first year we were onlyfacebook.
(20:51):
It was probably 99 facebook.
The rest was just like eitherreferral, which was non-existent
because we're a brand newbusiness, or google, which was
non-existent because, again,we're a brand new business yeah,
that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
And so you went for the like outbound marketing from
from the start, which a lot offolks don't do and, uh, you know
, because they usually are doingthe repeat and referral slow
growth approach, which is, uh,the benefit of those is that
it's slow growth approach, whichis uh, the benefit of those is
that it's usually less expensivemarketing, but it's just slower
growth.
But you went for, okay, I'mgoing to go, I'm going to find
(21:27):
people to sign up and so that isbenefit is, you know, fast
growth.
The downside is that it's moreexpensive to to do that for
marketing, but it can stillobviously work.
So what, what?
What did you have a fear onCause some folks have fear, like
putting so much money into themarketing, and I guess, what
(21:48):
gave you the confidence and what?
What were the numbers lookinglike when you were starting to
put you know a lot of money intoFacebook ads to to get the
sales going?
Speaker 3 (21:56):
Yeah, so there's a few things I want to say on that
, and absolutely so.
The fear was non-existent forme.
I was 22, 23 years old, and Inosedived.
I bought into another businessbecause my commercial painting
business was just self-runningand I lost a massive amount of
money at a very young age,massive amount of money at a
(22:17):
very young age.
So I already I'm not gun shyanymore.
I already, I already took thathit.
I already knew what it feltlike and guess what?
I knew what it took to bounceback and I knew what it took.
I know where I'm at now.
Like that happened back then,but look where I'm at now.
So why would I think about whatif it doesn't work?
Because what if it does?
And I've always in the what ifit does, though you know, it's
(22:39):
always a glass half full, kindof thing.
So the next thing is that I'm aspeed to lead guy.
A lot of people will say, sure,it costs more money.
You got to spend five, 10,right now we're spending over 20
grand a month just on Facebookalone, facebook and Instagram.
But back then, you know, maybefive grand a month, four grand a
month, and I would argue that,yeah, it does cost more.
(23:03):
Yeah, it does cost morefinancially, the actual monetary
exchange.
But what is really morevaluable?
Is your time more valuable oris it going to be the monetary,
actual cash?
I would say your time is.
We don't know when our last dayon earth is going to be.
So maximize every moment thatyou have and speed things up.
(23:23):
So I'm just that.
That's how I am with everythingand, granted, it's not, some of
the things I do are just insaneand crazy, and a CPA like you
would probably be like Russ.
What are you even thinkingright now?
And I'm fine with thoseconversations.
It's all in my head and it's a,it's a vision that I have and
it always finds a way to getright back on track.
(23:44):
But that's always my idea withit.
I would rather spend money thanspend time, and a big part of
it.
I know that some people mightbe listening and be like man, I
just don't have the money, andit's totally understandable.
Not everybody has the money.
I was.
I wasn't born with money.
I bought my own first car.
I started a landscapingbusiness when I was 12 years old
(24:07):
.
I was always self-made.
I don't have any parents' moneyor anything.
It's completely me.
So I understand.
It's not like I.
You know I came into it withhandouts.
But what I what did help me isI had a strong commercial
painting business before Ijumped into residential, so that
fueled the fire intoresidential.
I was taking the money from thecommercial account, dumping it
into Facebook marketing, dumpingit into a sales coach, into
(24:29):
CRMs and ways to get systems tohelp me speed the lead there.
But if I didn't have that, I'dbe knocking doors, I'd be
putting out yard signs aroundtown, door hangers, cold calling
whoever walking into businesses.
There's any ways to beaggressive and just, and if you
can't spend the money there,there's a lot of other ways to
be aggressive and still speed upyour growth.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Yeah, that's awesome.
I love what you said, whereit's like we're talking about
the fear You're, you're like, uh, you know what's the worst.
Like, uh, you know what's theworst, you know what's the worst
that could happen if I put abunch of money into the
marketing and it doesn't work.
I mean, you know I learned, Iprobably learned something, but
it's you know, so a lot of thefear.
If you just dig a little bitdeeper, it's like what's the
(25:11):
worst that's really gonna happen.
You know there's some money,you probably learn some stuff
and probably do it better nexttime.
So I love that.
And then talking about you know, spending money instead of time
, so kind of digging into thedetails a little bit there, for
what your marketing spend waslooking like.
(25:33):
What do you do and this was awhile ago so you might not quite
remember but what were youspending on Facebook to actually
get a customer in the door?
Speaker 3 (25:47):
To be honest, my my backend.
I had no idea.
I just know that if I'm at orbelow 10% cost of marketing I'm
a happy guy.
But I never tracked cost peracquisition back then.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Okay, well, that's that's useful Cause if you just
know your average job size, likelike it was $5,000, then it's
probably $500, you know for whatyou're spending on marketing,
so which you know that thatthat's a great cause.
I mean, um, and I knew you wererunning really high margins and
commercial Did you.
(26:18):
Were you able to maintain thosehigh margins and residential as
well?
Cause you said it was like 65%gross profit on a commercial?
Did you maintain those marginsand residential?
Speaker 3 (26:29):
No.
So I was.
I was strategic with it.
I wanted to go in with makingless money at 40% gross profit,
45% gross profit, whatever tobuild the team.
How can I build the system?
So it goes back to what we weresaying of what's the worst that
can happen.
What if it works?
There's no losses, there's onlylessons.
(26:50):
So right now, my first year ofbusiness, I want to take as many
lessons as I can.
I'll sell jobs at a lesser costso I can build the crew and
I'll take my quote, unquotelosses or lessons from the crew
leads Cause I was running W2painters at that time from the
crew leads, from these new, fromthese new painters that we
(27:11):
bring on board board anybodyelse that's on the team.
I'll take my lessons.
I just need the opportunity.
You can't learn.
Everything sounds good intheory.
You can read these books, youcan go to seminars, conferences
Everything sounds good in theory, but it doesn't mean anything
if you don't do it and you don'timplement it into your own
business.
So I just need as muchopportunity as possible.
(27:31):
Now, fast forward.
That was 40, 45% gross profit.
Fast forward now.
Now we're back to about 60, 65.
I think last month we finishedout like 63% overall gross
profit on painting.
So we don't usually sell below60% gross profit now.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
That's awesome.
That is top tier gross profit.
There's 63%.
There's only been a handful oftimes where folks are hitting,
you know, 60, 65%.
So that that's awesome.
You're definitely in the toptier there.
(28:09):
So, but it sounds like youstarted with 45% gross profit
margins just getting into it,just so that you can learn how
to do things, how to execute,getting those jobs in.
And then, as you move throughthe last few years, you've been
just getting better and better,improving gross profit, and now
you're at 63% gross profit,which is awesome.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
Yeah, go ahead.
Yeah, but you know what DanielLike back then.
I mean there's jobs that I tookon 20% gross profit.
There's jobs that I lost moneyon or just broke even on.
I didn't care.
I was the project manager, Iwas the sales guy, I was doing
the office paperwork, I dideverything.
So it was my time.
I wasn't paying for people.
So if I just need to get a jobon calendar, if I have a crew, I
(28:57):
need to keep them busy and Ineed to learn everything.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
So I didn't even care if I broke even, basically, so
just to sorry, to cut you off,but like it did not matter at
that point, it just we had toget the opportunity.
Yeah, yeah, and um, that makessense.
I mean you're learning and uh,and just, you're basically
you're, you're trying toaccelerate things.
Right, you didn't want to wasteyour time, so you're pulling
forward those leads into nowgetting that quick growth and
(29:20):
learning as you go as quickly aspossible so that you could
accelerate faster.
So it makes sense from whatyou're saying.
And one of the things that weoften look at is, as you're
scaling so quickly, becauseyou're at $1 million, you're at
$1.5, then $2.5, now $6, is thegross profit to customer
(29:42):
acquisition cost ratio fivepercent.
And then customer acquisitionwas the ten percent for
marketing spend plus which youwere doing, the sales initially,
which usually a salesperson islike seven or eight percent of
what they close.
So your, um, your customer,your gross profit, a customer
(30:04):
acquisition cost sound like itwas just under three to one,
right around three to one ratio,which is like the minimum for
for scaling quickly.
And then, but now, since you'vekind of built the systems,
built the people you know, builtthe reputation.
Now your, your, your grossprofit at customer acquisition
cost is probably like six to one, since your gross profit so
(30:28):
higher, maybe even higher.
So it's just really cool to seehow you've you know so quickly
like learned, implemented andjust built an amazing business.
So kudos to you foraccomplishing that.
It's just amazing.
Yeah, no, I appreciate that.
Speaker 3 (30:47):
But it kind of has to be at that point too, because
the only way for somebody likeat 5 million plus or trying to
hit eight figures et ceterabecause, remember, we're running
a flooring business too and Imight hit 2 million, maybe a
million and a half 2 million, 2million is our actual goal for
flooring and to be able to havepeople in key leadership spots
(31:09):
we have to be able to pay themwell if they're going to be the
rock stars that we need.
So right now we have a directorof operations, we have an
operations manager role that'skind of taken over the director
of ops role, we have two PMs andwe have four people in our
office and, of course, our fullsales team.
(31:30):
So we have to be able to sellat more profitable amounts to be
able to pay these people whatthey're worth.
Otherwise we're just gonna havesubpar leadership and people
that are not standing by ourvision and not delivering the
top level of excellence that allof our clients deserve and what
we promise them during oursales presentation.
(31:52):
So that's, you know, 40, 45%gross profit.
I know Jason Phillips he's mymain mentor with sales he argues
heavily against the 40 to 50%gross profit.
You know, bucket that peopletry to be in, because he has
such a strong leadership team.
(32:12):
And that's why I'd implementedin my head why I pay my people
as as best as we can pay them.
Um, because it all starts fromthe sale gross profit.
We can.
We can pay them as much as we,as much as they're worth.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
Yeah, so talking about people.
So what are some of the keyrules as as you've grown from 1
million to 6 million?
What are some of the key roles?
As you've grown from 1 millionto 6 million?
What are some of the key rolesthat you've been able to put in
place, that you've really justopened up your growth?
Sure.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
So office manager.
She handles all of our expenses, all of our payroll.
She does like all of ourQuickBooks and kind of a
bookkeeper as well.
We have three people in ourcall center that are just making
and taking calls all day, everyday.
That's for new leads or inboundcalls, our clients calling the
office, etc.
(33:03):
Then we have right now we havelike a.
He's a hybrid between, like anoperations manager and a project
manager, but he's soon going tobe just an ops manager where
he'll oversee everything, all ofthe all of the production, and
then we're going to kind of getrid of that director of
operations role.
Then we had a sales manager forthe first, I think, five months
(33:26):
of 2025, and, um, it was amutual, mutual thing that we we
brought him back down to sales,uh, to sales.
So now I'm I'm acting as salesmanager and while while being
the business owner, of course.
And then I think right now wehave four sales reps me, uh,
we're bringing on a fifth andsixth sales rep next month and,
(33:46):
yeah, that's that's mainly the,the positions we're bringing on.
Actually, another, anotherproject manager.
So we have two project managersplus bringing on another one
next week, which he'll be ahybrid between a project
coordinator and a projectmanager, and then all of our
production, where we're ahundred percent subcontractor
based.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Gotcha, do you, do you have like compensate,
because the compensationpackages are can often really
drive performance.
Do you have any things thatyou've learned on compensating
team members, whether it's thesalesperson or the production
manager or whoever that thatyou've learned that's really
worked, or the things you'velearned that's not worked?
Speaker 3 (34:28):
Yeah Well, what doesn't work is to keep pushing
your team to perform at a highlevel and get as much
profitability and and notcompensate them at all for it.
Learn that a little bit, um, orjust throwing random bonuses
here and there, cause it's, it'sall feeling based.
That's that didn't work.
That was my story of my lifefor a while.
Just hey, this guy's been doinggreat here's.
(34:50):
Here's 200 bucks.
Hey, here's.
You know you've been crushingit for a while here's 500 bucks,
but it's not there's.
No, it's all feelings based.
So now we're rolling into, ofcourse, a percentage of change
or, like I'll go with projectmanagement, percentage of change
orders.
Then we have a cumulativemonthly goals for project
(35:11):
managers and then operationsmanager, because the operations
manager needs to make sure allof his PMs are meeting or
exceeding budget.
So we have a cost.
We give them a cost on everyjob and as long as he, you know,
meets that cost or falls belowthat cost, we'll combine all of
the jobs within one month andgive him X amount, whether it's
(35:32):
$500, $1,000, $2,000 bonuses ifhe meets his goal, because some
jobs, understandably, we mighthave a $1,500 cost on it, but
there's no way we can havesomebody do that job.
So he has to produce it for$1,800.
So he'll be over budget there.
But then the next job might bethe same cost $1,500.
And he knows he can save acouple hundred bucks, be at
(35:54):
$1,200 right there and they bothlevel out with each other.
So we do that within a wholemonth.
So that's the PM and then theops manager will both get
similar rewards for that, plus acertain amount percentage for
change orders.
Now for our sales we have ifthey break X amount of sales
dollars sold in a month or Xamount in a year, they'll.
(36:17):
The monthly will be just onelump sum bonus, but the yearly,
once they break like a millionand a half, they'll get an extra
percentage.
Break two and a half million,they'll get an extra percentage.
So on and so forth.
Our call center we have a fewdifferent goals.
They make a bonus, small bonusfor every single appointment
that they set.
And then they make a small.
(36:40):
It's not really that small butthey make a bonus.
We're around 50 to 52% set rate.
If they break 60% set rate in amonth, I give them a decent
bonus and if they break 70%,then we give them a really good
bonus.
So it's incentivizing them tostrategize, mastermind and come
up with the best strategies,even if our SOPs.
(37:00):
There's ways that we can tweakthem, because we always want
them to tweak our SOPs.
So if you find a better way todo something, you just let us
know, implement it, test it out,and if it gets us closer to our
goals, then great.
You're going to be compensatedaccordingly for it.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
It's awesome.
So it sounds like pretty muchmost of your team isn't.
Uh, you've set up bonusstructures that incentivize them
to hit your goals.
Yep, um.
And so for the productionmanager, basically if they are
at or with or below the cost ofservices for all the projects
overall for the month, whetherthat's, you know, cost of
(37:39):
services or you know 35, ifyou're hitting for 65 or 65
gross profit margin or 60 costof services for a 60 gross
profit margin, whatever yourtarget is, if they hit that or
go below it, then they get abonus for that month.
Then for the salespeople, theyhave certain targets, bonuses
for if they hit their salesgoals for the month and also for
(38:01):
the year.
And then call center, they areincentivized for each
appointment setting it, but alsooverall set rate to incentivize
the team to improve theprocesses.
So yeah, okay, oh, that's likeokay, that's that's awesome,
cause you're kind of like youknow gross profits important, so
(38:23):
you have the productionmanagers protecting that.
Um, obviously you want to keepdriving sales, so you get the
salespeople incentivized thatway and you're also helping with
the sales.
Uh, incentivizing the set rate,because you improve your set
rate by a few percentage points.
That's going to have hugeresults on your revenue because
(38:44):
you set 10 more appointments permonth.
That's going to be X amount ofextra money coming in on the top
line revenue for thesalespeople.
So, and and so you're.
You're basically incentivizingthe team to hit those, those
revenue goals, thoseprofitability goals.
Do you have any more that Iforgot about?
(39:04):
On, operation.
Speaker 3 (39:06):
So one is going to be collecting payment on time at
the final walkthrough.
So the problem that we wererunning into is we were running
so many jobs.
We have a project managerrunning 15, 20 jobs a week and
he got touch-ups at this job,touch-ups at that job, touch-ups
at that job.
Ultimately, we have a crazyamount out on accounts
(39:27):
receivable that just needs smallthings here and there for us to
receive final payment.
So our crews are upset.
They're not getting paidbecause they need to go back and
touch it up Me.
I'm looking at our P&L and I'mlike what's going on over here,
we're not collecting.
So rolling this out, anotherincentive for them to collect at
the final walk and then,secondary, to get a five-star
(39:52):
review at the final completionand then the five-star review
will kind of go into NPS, whichis net promoter score when the
project's completed.
That'll be more of anoperations manager incentive to
make sure that it's above, Ithink, like 90%, 95%.
Nps is what we're looking for.
I don't remember the exactnumber that we have in the SOP,
(40:13):
but basically just to make surethat we're delivering the top
tier experience that we're knownfor and that we're trying to
give.
So those are the other twoincentives I forgot about on the
ops side.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
I love it.
Yeah, collecting payments ontime, making sure that cashflow
stays good Cause if you don'thave cash, you don't have a
business so that's superimportant.
And then, obviously, customerexperience.
So I think you're hitting likeall the you've incentivized the
team with bonuses on like prettymuch all the key things that
(40:45):
you want in your business.
You want revenue, you want cash, you want to be profitable and
you want happy customers.
Speaker 3 (40:53):
I mean, if you have those things in business, yeah,
you know, the biggest thing isthat I just want them to have
the opportunity to, almost in ageneral sense, write their own
check.
You know, self-generate yourown leads.
You get extra couple percentagepoints for self-generating your
own leads.
So just go pound the pavementall day.
You can write your own check,you know, and then all these
other incentives just write yourown check, basically.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
Yeah, that's awesome Cool.
Well, hey Russell, you, you'vebeen super generous with your
time.
I've learned a lot.
I think this has been supervaluable for the, for the
audience.
Do you have any last thoughtsor ask of the audience before we
let you go today?
Speaker 3 (41:30):
No man I just you know I appreciate anybody, you
know listening.
I love giving back to theindustry any way possible.
I'm not sitting here, I don'tsell anything to the industry or
anything, I just love to hop in.
I go to conferences all thetime and just mastermind groups.
I'm in a lot of group chats sothere's always masterminding
with other business owners.
So you ever want to hit me up,ask any questions, feel free to
(41:53):
do so.
Facebook is a little bit toughto get ahold of me.
It just my messenger is alwaysflooded.
So I'm Russell Peach onFacebook, peach the Painter on
Instagram, so you ever have anyquestions.
Concerns I just love helping theindustry.
I didn't have a mentor, Ididn't have coaches the first
seven years of business, if webacktrack to that.
So if I can just help anybodyin the industry, it's just a
(42:14):
personal fulfillment thing thatI just love to do because I
never had that when I wasgrowing up, so happy to feel
free to reach out, happy to giveany insights.
But, daniel, I reallyappreciate you having me here
and definitely I was glad I wasable to drop some gems here.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
Yeah, no, it was great.
I really appreciate you,Russell, and you definitely have
.
Uh, I always see you at theevents and it's always great to
see you and you always have somegreat insights to provide.
So, um, I'm super excited thatyou came on the podcast and, for
all the listeners, uh, we'llsee you next week.
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