October 17, 2025 • 32 mins
Struggling to scale past the half-million mark with a small team? In this insightful episode of the Profitable Painter Podcast, we sit down with Micah from Wild Fox Painting in Colorado.
He started his company from scratch in 2018 and has systematically scaled it to nearly $500K with just 2.5 people—and is on track to hit $1M. He reveals the power of niching down, creating hyper-efficient processes, and building a team that delivers exceptional quality and client experiences.
You’ll learn how to:
- Niche Down for Profit & Efficiency: Why focusing exclusively on interior work—and even creating a niche service like door refinishing—can skyrocket your revenue and streamline your operations.
- Build a Laser-Focused Team: How task-organizing your crew and leveraging their strengths (like using tape for perfect lines) allows you to produce high-quality work faster than the competition.
- Master Your Metrics: Micah’s simple method for breaking down annual revenue goals into weekly targets, so you always know if you’re on track and when to push for more work.
- The "Female Painter" Advantage: How building a team that is often perceived as cleaner, quieter, and less intimidating can become a unique selling proposition that wins over clients, especially for interior jobs.
- Create Systems That Scale: The operational hacks—from doing all cabinet and door work in a warehouse to a "clean-as-you-go" mentality—that save hours on every job.
- Set Yearly Goals That You Crush: How Micah has consistently exceeded or doubled his goals every single year since starting, by intentionally scaling at his own pace.
If you’re ready to work smarter, not just harder, and build a more profitable and efficient painting business, this episode is packed with actionable insights.
Hit SUBSCRIBE for more weekly strategies on mastering your numbers, boosting profits, and building a business that works for you
For being a loyal listener, I want to send you a copy of my new book Profitable Painter. Inside, I’ll show you the exact frameworks that have helped painting businesses save big on taxes, increase profits, and scale with confidence
Head over to profitablepaintercpa.com/book and grab your copy today. Don’t wait — this is my gift to you for being part of the Profitable Painter community.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Welcome to the Profitable Painter Podcast.
The mission of this podcast issimple.
To help you navigate thefinancial and tax aspects of
starting, running, and stealinga professional painting
business, from the brushes andladders to the spreadsheets and
balance sheets, we've got youcovered.
But before we dive in, a quickword of caution.
(00:21):
Nothing easier on this podcastshould be considered as
financial advice, specificallyfor you or your business.
We're here to share generalknowledge and experiences, not
to replace detailed advice youget from a professional
financial advisor or taxconsultant.
We strongly recommend youseeking individualized advice
before making any significantfinancial decision.
SPEAKER_02 (00:42):
Welcome to the Profitable Painter Podcast, the
show where painting contractorslearn how to boost profits, cut
taxes, and build a business thatworks for them.
I'm your host, Daniel Honan,CPA, former painting business
owner, and your guide tomastering the numbers that drive
success.
So let's dive in and make yourbusiness more profitable one
episode at a time.
I'm super excited today to bespeaking with Micah out of
Colorado.
(01:03):
He has a really cool business,uh, Wild Fox Painting.
And so I'd like to welcome youto the podcast.
Micah, how's it going?
It's great.
Thank you.
I'm excited to be here.
Yeah, man.
Um, so could you just to givelisteners an idea of where
you're coming from, when did youget started in the painting
industry and what's been yourjourney along the way?
SPEAKER_00 (01:21):
Yeah.
So um I've been painting since Iwas a kid.
My dad owned a you know cabinetbuilding shop.
So I painted for him, I did astain for him, kind of had that
hands-on since I was you knowfive years old.
Um, I think through high school,I ended up working with a local
painter.
So I did a lot of exteriorpainting um through high school
and then went into web design.
(01:42):
So my background is actuallysoftware.
And then uh September 2016 or2018, excuse me, um, I went out
and started my own paintingcompany again.
And yeah, I kind of was sick ofthe digital world and wanted to
get back on the trades andpainting made the most sense.
So, yeah, September 2018, I twoo'clock in the morning, I
started the company and had awebsite up that day, and I've
(02:04):
been busy ever since.
So nice.
SPEAKER_02 (02:07):
So you were pretty well embedded in the trains from
an early age, and then you kindof went and did something
completely different.
Uh, what what what drew you backinto the the trades?
SPEAKER_00 (02:19):
Um, I'd been working kind of full time for a company
doing doing design um and plusfreelance on site as well, and
the company kind of gotdestroyed through a bad article.
Um, and I just I kind of lost myjob essentially.
And so that was kind of for thatwas the last week of January
when that kind of happened of2018.
And I just I took six months.
(02:39):
I'm just like, what do I want todo?
Um, I wasn't feeling verycreative anymore.
I was kind of sick of being acomputer all the time.
And yeah, literally middle ofthe night, I was like, you know
what?
There's a brand new SharonWilliams going in down the
street.
Um, I had a friend that just waslooking for a painter.
Um, another friend was lookingfor a painter, and it just kind
of all made sense.
It was kind of a low startupcost because I was kind of
(03:01):
running out of money at thatpoint.
So I hadn't found what I wantedto do.
I knew I didn't want to work forsomebody, so you know, kind of
uh had to be my own company, hadto have my hours and something
at low startup cost, low skillkind of you know involvement.
And yeah, just the next day Ijust started that company and
kind of one of the bestdecisions I've made, to be
(03:22):
honest.
SPEAKER_02 (03:22):
So yeah.
So what what's the journey likebeen like since you started the
business in 2008?
You know, why has it been thebest decision that you've made?
SPEAKER_00 (03:32):
Um it's uh it's allowed me to be flexible,
right?
I mean, you you kind of go onyour own to have your your
freedom, right?
Which you end up working, youknow, 68, 60 to 80 hours a week
instead of 40, like you wouldwith the normal job.
But um, it still gives you thatfreedom.
So I can, you know, if I haveto, I could go pick up my kids,
or I can take them to a doctorappointment, or I could take a
(03:52):
day off if I really need to.
Um, but it's just everythingthat I planned.
Because I before I started thecompany, I I had mapped out
exactly what my ideal job was.
And so painting fit all of that.
And then once I startedpainting, I knew as a solo
painter, I couldn't take on hugejobs.
(04:13):
I knew I didn't want to doexterior.
So we've only done interior upuntil this year.
Um, and so I set these yearlygoals, both kind of financial
and just growth-wise.
I know I don't want to be a hugecompany necessarily.
Um, so each year I just I setthese new goals and I would
break them or double them.
And you know, just every yearsince then I've done that and
I've basically broke everyrecord every each year as I've
(04:35):
been growing and scaling.
I've kind of been scaling slowlyon purpose.
Um and yeah, looking to kind oftake it to that next step this
next next year or two.
SPEAKER_02 (04:47):
That's awesome.
So I so before you even startedthe business, you kind of mapped
out what do I like to do andwhat your ideal job would look
like.
And starting a painting businesswas like checking all the boxes
there.
SPEAKER_00 (05:00):
Yep.
Yeah, it was yeah, like lowstartup cost, it was you know,
low, no education to kind of getup to speed, um, low kind of
material expenses.
You know, I didn't I didn't wantto go out and buy a bunch of
tools and things like that, juststuff that I had.
Um, again, back to the freedom,just I could kind of work my own
hours, uh, could be my own boss.
(05:21):
I knew how to do it immediately.
I had a vehicle where I could,you know, hold the stuff that I
needed.
And yeah, I knew I could makemoney.
Um, and from the interiorperspective at that time of the
season, too, you know, Septemberis pretty late in the season.
I knew that exterior was goingto be kind of drying up as we
get into the winter months.
So I just I knew that you knowmy my cleanliness and my detail
(05:45):
and attention to detail justreally I could really excel in
interior and get work rightaway.
And that kind of proved to bealmost exactly as I expected it
to be.
And I didn't want to doexterior.
You know, I did exterior when Iwas younger.
You've got HOAs out here, so youhave to deal with that.
You've got weather, you've got,you know, 40 foot on a ladder
and on a hill on gravel.
I just I didn't want to do dealwith that, first of all.
(06:08):
Plus, just you know, from asafety perspective, I you know,
I'm kind of feeling too old tobe up too high on the ladder
anymore and and be in that thatdangerous of a situation by
myself.
Yeah.
Um just made sense and I coulddo it year-round and just kind
of been growing that ever since.
SPEAKER_02 (06:25):
Okay, yeah, makes sense.
So you're focusing on interiorand and cabinets, uh, and I've
seen some of your stuff on onTikTok with with the cabinet
refinishing.
Um and uh and so that's beenyour kind of your niche is is
interior, it sounds like.
SPEAKER_00 (06:43):
Yeah, so since since I started, yeah, the whole thing
was interior for sure.
And then I was just kind ofdoing cabinets, but I was doing
them in my garage, and I just Ididn't feel like I was getting
the quality I wanted.
Um my wife is getting upsetbecause I was taking over the
garage every other week, right?
And so I kind of put cabinets onthe side.
I'm like, I'm not gonna docabinets again until I can get a
warehouse.
Um, so I just we literallyfocused on interior jobs only
(07:05):
and only just painting, like notdoing staining, not doing faux
finishing, just you know,straight, we're gonna paint it,
it's gonna be done.
Um, and that's been that way upuntil I think 2022 or 2023 is
when I got the warehouse.
So then we started you knowreally focusing on cabinets and
like, okay, what process to dopaint cabinets, what's the best
(07:25):
paint we can use?
Because I want to do high-endcabinet painting.
I don't want to just do kind ofblow and go, you know, low-end
quality cabinet painting.
I wanted something that was justreally specialized because I've
got the warehouse, so we cantake the proper time, we can do
the proper prep compared to allmy competitors who you know
they're doing it on site,they're taking over a client's
garage.
So now we did interior, we didcabinets, and then 2024.
(07:50):
Um, I had a client reach outabout some interior doors, and
so we painted those quick andgot them off, and I realized
they're kind of a high profitmargin and just they were easy
to do in the warehouse.
So I started running ads in 2024for doors, and we ended up doing
600 interior doors last year inthe warehouse.
So, you know, it's kind of thissmall little niche that I found
(08:12):
that really isn't profitable ifyou do it on site.
So, you know, do it by hand oruh do it in someone's garage.
It's it's more effort than it isto actually, you know, to get
paid.
Whereas if I can take them off,just bring them here.
We can do again full prep likewe would cabinets.
We can do nice spray coats, um,we can patch stuff, keep the
dust here.
Um, so we did a big push oninterior doors last year, and we
(08:35):
did yeah, over 600 off site.
And then cabinets were justreally kind of rolling, and you
know, we had a good cabinetprocess, interiors, and now this
year I finally brought onsomeone, and now we're doing
full exterior and commercialwork as well.
So he manages that wholedepartment, and I kind of still
personally focus on the interiorside, and so we're kind of kind
of ramping up exterior and andwe'll really push it next year.
(08:57):
That's awesome.
SPEAKER_02 (08:59):
That's uh I think that's a I haven't heard of that
niche before.
Like you're just doing likeinterior door like refinishing,
which kind of makes sensebecause usually the door is
completely like the front dooris like completely different
than a lot of the rest of thehouse.
Um and so and and and and that'slike the focal point too, where
(09:20):
people want that front door tolook really good, and and often
just making that look reallygood can just elevate the whole
uh look of your house.
SPEAKER_00 (09:30):
So it's not even just front doors, it's all all
interior doors, right?
So your bedroom doors, which isnice too, because you know,
every house has 15 to 30 doors.
So you can kind of grab them allor grab half them at a time.
I can work on them you know atmidnight.
If you know if I'm runningbehind or something, I can you
know I can do it in thewarehouse and just do it
whenever I have a free moment orspray a quick coat and then go
(09:53):
off and do something else.
So it's just it's a nice fillerkind of service that just was
way more successful than I wouldhave ever imagined it to be.
Um this year's been slower onthat.
I don't know if my ads justaren't working as well, but it's
it's been fine because we'vebeen busy with elsewhere on
other stuff.
But it's just kind of a kind ofa cool thing that people, a
resident doesn't really thinkabout either.
(10:14):
It's like they don't think aboutdoors as being, oh, I could just
only paint the doors, right?
They they think it's either thewhole house and the doors, or
it's just you know, you don't dothe doors at all.
So my ads, when people see them,they're like, oh, I guess I
could just paint the doors.
So now I'm kind of pushing like,you know, refresh your white
doors, or hey, let's go with anaccent color, like a black, um,
(10:34):
be really bold and do somecolorful doors, you know, like
teal or brown or orangey orsomething, something different
with doors, because there's kindof a fun, it could be a fun
accent throughout your wholehouse without really spending a
lot of money, um, versus like anaccent wall, which is kind of
going out, um, which are beingreplaced by beachy walls now,
kind of like your wall with theyou know the boards on the back.
(10:56):
Um, so it's it's just kind of acool little service that I kind
of fell into accidentally.
SPEAKER_02 (11:02):
Yeah, that's that's really interesting.
Um you mentioned you had yearlygoals that you've every year
going back to 2018, you'veeither uh exceeded or you broke
it or doubled it.
Um but at the same time you'resaying you're trying to scale
slowly on purpose.
Um that was funny.
(11:24):
But uh can you give us an ideaof like where obviously you
started from zero in 2018?
Where where have you gone interms of revenue over the last
you know six, seven years?
SPEAKER_00 (11:34):
Yeah, so um my first year, my gross is what we can
gross in a month now, prettymuch.
So, you know, we went frombasically 12, is that 12x if you
did if that's right.
Um, so yeah, but if we have areally good month, we're
basically grossing what Igrossed my entire first year,
uh, which is pretty wild.
(11:55):
Um and right now it's it'sreally just two of us, kind of
two and a half of us on theinterior.
So, you know, we're doing almosthalf a million dollars each year
now, um, with basically two anda half, really just two people,
and now kind of two and a halfas I'm bringing on a new person
to kind of get her up to speed.
Um, so be able to do that withsuch a small team, yeah, pretty
(12:17):
impressive.
And yeah, to kind of still meetthose goals or exceed those
goals is you know really, reallyencouraging.
And you know, it's I think youneed to have those goals.
Um, something that really helpedme.
I think I started that in 20,either 2020 or 23 or 2024, I
started just really trackingeach kind of each week and each
(12:38):
month as far as revenue andexpenses go.
So in my Excel document, I haveeach month laid out and then
each week laid out within eachof those columns, right?
And so week one, week two, weekthree, week four.
Well, if if my goal is say 40grand a month, then come week
(12:58):
two, if I'm$10,000 behind whereI think I should be to reach
that goal, I know I can try andget more leads, or maybe I price
stuff a little bit higher or alittle bit lower, and you know,
maybe I'll go lower to try andwin more work.
Um, or if I'm ahead of schedule,then oh, that one bat, you know,
that one bathroom that's when Iwants painted, I could take that
to generate that little bit ofextra income.
(13:19):
I'm not gonna make a lot ofmoney on it, but it's not gonna
be a waste of time.
It's gonna help me get to mygoal.
So if by breaking it down kindof per week, I really know where
I'm at as far as reaching mygoals.
Anything above, you know, my myminimum is just icing on the
cake at that point.
Um, so a lot of people don'treally think that way.
I think they think more weeklyor more monthly.
(13:43):
Um, maybe some don't even thinkyou know per year, right?
They're just like, oh, what's myend-of-year numbers and kind of
go on?
Where me, I'm breaking it downalmost daily now and even
weekly, just so I know, okay,here's where I'm at.
I can I need a little bit morework, I need a little bit less
work, or I'm okay if I have lesswork, you know, things like
that.
And it's just it really kind ofmotivates you to you know get
(14:06):
more work or know that you'reokay, or you know, things like
that.
So yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (14:10):
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
Uh so basically you take the ifyou're shooting for 500,000, you
break that down into 52 weeks,and so you gotta hit you know
around 9,500 in production perweek to to hit that, but at the
same time, you also gotta sell9,500 uh as well.
(14:33):
Do you break it?
Do you also um do you have itbroken down like how many
estimates that you need to beapproximately doing to hit that
sales goal of$9,500 per per weekas well?
SPEAKER_00 (14:47):
Um, I think probably technically I have that.
I don't I wouldn't say Inecessarily go off of that
because each every job is sodifferent.
Um I have a I have a kind of awin rate that I focus on more.
So you know, my my goal win rateis about 38% of the estimates
that I do.
And right now I'm about 45% forthis year, which is kind of kind
(15:08):
of unusual.
Um so I think it's more thatway.
Um, and again, like if I knowI'm a thousand dollars behind,
you know, I can take thatsmaller job and it'll get me to
that number a little bit closer,and you know, things like that.
SPEAKER_02 (15:24):
So well, 45% close rate's still really good.
SPEAKER_00 (15:28):
It's really high.
Uh yeah.
My first year was like 65%.
I'm like, okay, I need to raisemy rates a little bit.
SPEAKER_02 (15:33):
So yeah, there you go.
Exactly.
Yeah, that's that's a goodobservation.
Um so you mentioned you have uhlike two and a half members on
the team.
Is that right?
SPEAKER_00 (15:47):
Yeah, so I've got my one full-time who he's doing all
the commercial side, so that'sbasically where he focuses.
And then I have a full-time uhgal who works for me.
She's been with me for a fewyears now.
And then one of her friendswanted to come on, kind of learn
the trade.
So she's been working out withus kind of part-time, 1099, to
(16:08):
kind of get her up to speed, andthen we'll look at bringing
around full-time, you know,probably next year sometime.
And just yeah, so I'll have twokind of two interior full-time,
my one exterior full-time, andthen myself, and between the
four of us, we we can do quite abit of work.
Um, we'll and we have subs forour exterior, so we kind of
that's more of a submodel than Xtier, interior is more of a
(16:29):
full-time model.
And then I have another, I hadanother full-time person, but
she was just in the caraccident, so she's out for a
while, possibly indefinitely.
So kind of two have things off.
But um, so it's supposed to beabout, yeah, kind of an extra
full-time person, but we're downa little bit right now.
Gotcha.
Okay.
We're kind of going into slowseason, so I'm kind of okay with
(16:51):
that.
We'll just kind of get throughslow season, then we'll ramp up
again next year.
SPEAKER_02 (16:55):
So okay.
So four four full-timeequivalent.
Essentially, yeah.
Yeah, okay.
And and then you're with thosethat four folks, um, you can
produce uh half a milliondollars about.
SPEAKER_00 (17:10):
Yeah, and that's and then I think next year will be
way more than that because we wekind of got a late start on the
exterior side.
So we just kind of we've beendoing kind of one job a week on
the exterior side, where nextyear I think we'll be like more
at three or four a week.
So it's really gonna once we getthat system really going and and
advertising properly for that,we'll we'll probably be closer
(17:30):
to a million next year, I wouldthink.
So nice.
SPEAKER_02 (17:35):
Yeah, and so do you think uh because usually it's
like a hundred thousand dollarsper per painter is kind of like
the rough guideline, so you'redefinitely above that uh with
the other thing.
I'm way above that, yeah.
I would say uh so do youattribute that efficiency with
just because you're laserfocused on interior, so you guys
(17:57):
are just super efficient withlike doing those processes, or
is it something else?
SPEAKER_00 (18:02):
I think it's both.
I think the fact that we a thatwe're such a small team, we just
have to be efficient.
Um two, yeah, since we for solong we only focus on interiors,
we could just really get good atour processes.
Um, whereas if you have asub-team, like they have their
own and that's always random,they always have new people
coming on.
So having a full-time team thatworks together consistently, we
(18:26):
just know who's gonna do what,who's better at what, here's how
we prep it.
Um, and so like we can my leadpainter and I, we can walk into
a like a cabinet job and noteven talk about it, and just
we'll have it prepped in youknow three hours because we just
know who's gonna do what, howhow we need to prep it.
Um, same with the house.
We can just walk into the houseand grab the tape and start
(18:48):
start rolling and just talk andstart going.
Um, but yeah, the process is isbig.
I don't really have an outlinenecessarily.
It's like in a document, but umas we scale, we'll have to do
that.
But you know, we really focusedon on the detail and like we
tape almost everything.
So all our woodwork gets tapedoff, the floors get taped off.
(19:10):
Um it's just it's faster.
I know a lot of painters youknow on Facebook groups kind of
complain about, oh, you're not areal painter if you use tape.
Well, if you want to be 10%slower than me and you know take
longer to do it, that's yourproblem, not mine.
It's you know, it's a sellingpoint for me to use tape.
I can have cleaner lines.
Um, it's way faster, in myopinion.
Yeah, you spend a bit more onpaint, but now I can have that
(19:32):
$15 an hour person doing aperfect line versus hiring that
40-hour painter who's gonna sitthere on the floor and you know,
cut that edge in twice and thatceiling in twice.
You know, taping it is just wayfaster than you can mini-roll it
and have it done really quick.
Um, so that that was a hugespeed boost once we switched to
just taping everything off andusing mini-rollers, you know, in
(19:55):
90% of the areas and large incorners and stuff, and then and
even like door frames, we'lltape off door frames, we can
just roll right up that doorframe around windowsills.
Um, we still kind of cut in thetop edge most of the time.
Um, but once in a while we'llkind of tape that too.
But it's just a little bitharder to tape the top edge, in
my opinion.
Um, but yeah, the taping hasjust really made us way more
(20:16):
efficient, way more consistentin quality, right?
So we we always know it's gonnabe a straight line, we know it's
gonna be perfect.
And again, I don't have to havethat 40 an hour painter cutting
in that edge twice to make aperfect line.
I can have you know$15 an hourperson like then my kids doing
it, you know, that kind ofthing.
SPEAKER_02 (20:33):
So yeah, no, it makes a lot of sense.
And as you mentioned, probably alot easier to scale that that
process than to find, you know,especially, you know, if if you
can't find uh that that thatpainter that's gonna be able to
(20:53):
cut, you know, in an amazing wayand everything, if you can just
have a process that compensatesfor that, where you can put Joe
off the street, train him on theprocess, and then he can do have
the same cutting lines withoutactually having to cut just
using tape.
That makes a lot of sense.
SPEAKER_00 (21:09):
And we have a highly textured walls out here.
I don't know what your guys'walls are like, they're smooth
or textured, but so you know,with an eggshell, or not
eggshell, but like an orangepeel kind of texture, you're
going over that edge four orfive times to get work it into
that texture and and get itgood.
So if it's a smooth wall, that'sone thing, you know, it's a
little bit easier to cut thatin, but you know, cutting in
(21:32):
that edge by hand on texture isjust it's slow and tedious,
especially on new new texture,because it's just it's so thick
and so dense that it's just it'salmost impossible to at a point.
So yeah, if you can just rollit, it's way easier to get the
paint in there and way faster.
So yeah, that makes sense.
SPEAKER_02 (21:48):
The other thing you mentioned was when you your team
goes to the job site, youalready each person knows what
they're gonna do.
So it sounds like you have kindof like you know, Tom does the
trim and the doors, or like doyou guys have a task organized
like that where the team knowsthey're doing a certain thing on
(22:11):
a house, whatever house it is?
SPEAKER_00 (22:12):
Yeah, I mean it's kind of unofficial just because
you know we're so small still.
Once we get bigger, we'll haveto have more, like you're
specifically doing this.
But you know, me and my leadpainter, when we when we were on
an interior job, we bothprepped.
So we both know, okay, we'lljust kind of be in the middle as
far as the prep goes and tapingstuff off.
Um, she's really good at trimwork, so she's you know, she's a
(22:33):
little bit shorter than I andsmaller than I'm, so she's
usually sit on the floor or kindof work on that, you know, work
on that kind of tedious stuff.
So she's really good at at trimwork.
I'm better at brushwork, so I Ialmost once prep's done, I
pretty much just start doingthat top edge, um, start cutting
that in.
And then once she's done withtrim, she'll just start rolling
the walls or the ceilings orwhatever we have, whatever else
(22:54):
we have.
Um, and then we kind of justmeet in the middle, and it just,
you know, that works with two orthree people because you kind of
just you know what needs to getdone.
And but yeah, as we scale, we'llhave to have more kind of okay.
You're gonna focus on this, I'mgonna focus on that.
We'll kind of meet in the middleagain.
And and every job is different,right?
So, you know, as far as drytime, maybe maybe they want
(23:15):
their master bedroom done thatday so they can, you know, kind
of have their bedroom back.
So now you're now you goteveryone in one room kind of get
everything done versus well,we'll do trim today, we'll do
walls tomorrow, we'll do, youknow, so it's just depends on
the job.
But for the most part, yeah,right now we can pretty much
walk in and just here's whatwe're doing, here's the rooms
we're doing it in, and get towork.
(23:37):
So it's pretty quick.
SPEAKER_02 (23:38):
Yeah.
Well, that that definitelysounds like it contributes to
how you're able to produce, youknow, so much revenue for for
the the the small team that youhave is that you know, you the
process with taping, and then itsounds like your your team knows
what they're good at and theythey focus on those things.
SPEAKER_00 (23:58):
And I think that's critical.
I think getting people to do thesame thing over and over and
over, they just get so good atit and they find their own
efficiencies versus yeah, okay,today I'm gonna tape, tomorrow
I'm gonna roll, tomorrow I'mgonna brush.
Like let them do one thing for along time and get good at that.
We still want to meet in themiddle, but like get them good
at that one thing.
And some people kind ofnaturally like one thing.
(24:21):
So let them let them be good atthat, that they like to do.
And the other thing too is we'revery, very clean and organized,
right?
So we don't just go around anddrop all the trash on the floor
and then come back and pick itup at the end.
Like we're always alwaysthrowing stuff away, have a bag
of trash kind of all the time,finish roll of tape, just throw
in the trash.
You know, a lot of painters,especially extra painters, will
(24:44):
just you know, throw it on theground and end of the job,
they'll walk around and pickstuff up.
Well, it's just that's notefficient.
If you're walking that way andyou happen to see them, just
grab it, right?
So those little efficienciesseem small, but when you
multiply it times you know 200jobs a year, 100 jobs a year,
that adds up prettysignificantly.
Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (25:02):
Yeah, so you you're basically you're not only
niching with your you know, justdoing interior painting.
And I know you add cabinets uhand the doors thing, but you're
pretty much just doing you know,interior painting.
Because a lot of painters, youpainting businesses, they're
doing pretty much anythingcoatings, interior, exterior,
you know, whatever, uh whateverpeople need, but you're you're
(25:25):
focused on interior, so thatkind of gives you a leg up on
efficiency because your team isseeing the same type of projects
over and over again.
But not only that, you're alsobreaking down even further where
your team members are very goodat a specific part of the
interior, like the trim or thedoors or whatever, because
they're kind of tasked organizedto do that because that's what
(25:47):
they're good at.
So you're getting like multipleum kind of niching uh
efficiencies there.
SPEAKER_00 (25:57):
Yep, and um I was gonna say like most of my team
members on the interim have beenfemale too.
So I don't know if that's partof it as well.
They're just kind of naturallycleaner, they're naturally
quieter, you know, even onsites, just you know, they're
not blurring music everywhereand just kind of organized in a
(26:18):
different way.
Um problem with females a lot oftimes is they're really short,
so it kind of pulls me back inon some high stuff.
But um, but yeah, I think it'sjust the clients are happier, I
think.
You know, if a if a femalepainter walks in, they seem to
kind of just relax a little bit.
Right.
Um and even though you couldhave the nicest man painter, you
(26:41):
know, come in and paint, butwomen, because a lot of times
it's you know, the woman willreach out and then I'll follow
up and the man will kind ofrespond, right?
And then you go meet with themin person, and the man answers
the door, and then his, oh,here's my wife, talk to her
about the project, right?
So it gets handed off to thewife most of the time.
SPEAKER_02 (26:59):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (27:00):
So to be able to have that kind of female
connection between the painterand you know the homeowner, it
seems insignificant, but I'vehad numerous clients like, oh,
your team was amazing, you know,they were quiet, they were
clean, they were professional,um, they were super sweet,
right?
You don't hear that about a mantypically like, oh, they're so
sweet and so kind, and just youknow, here's a tip, you know.
(27:22):
So it's it makes a bigdifference, and yeah, yeah,
women, women painters are great.
So yeah, it might be.
SPEAKER_02 (27:31):
It just makes complete sense.
Like you're especially becauseyou're focused on interior, and
so you're you have folks cominginto your home, can be a little
bit invasive or feel that way.
But if if it's a woman, they'rejust more it's less
intimidating, you know.
A bunch of guys like you don'tknow, uh, you know, it's just
(27:53):
gonna feel way different, likeyou, like you're saying.
So I think that makes a lot ofsense, especially when you're
focused on interior, if you canprovide that that just different
atmosphere and differentexperience.
Um and I think that's gonna bethat that that's huge.
I think a really good insight.
And I if you can actually scalethat model uh of an experience,
(28:15):
I think that would be huge foryour business.
SPEAKER_00 (28:17):
And I think back to the efficiency, the cleaning,
the being clean, we're not goingthrough and scraping splatter
off the floor for two hours atthe end of the job, like a lot
of other painters do.
It's like just be clean to startwith, have your hands clean.
Like any painter that has justpaint all over their hands all
the time and their brushespaint, like I hate that.
Like, why are you so messy?
Everything you touch is gonnaget a smudge on it, or it's
(28:40):
gonna be a paint on it.
So it's just being clean and andorganized is huge.
And no one no one does that.
It's weird to me.
SPEAKER_02 (28:48):
Yeah, no, definitely, definitely makes
sense.
Cool.
Well, uh, so you've been supergenerous with your time.
I I really appreciate it, Micah.
Um for for folks that arelistening, what what you know
advice would you have or anyfinal thoughts or asks of the
(29:08):
audience?
Um, maybe they're trying to growtheir business, maybe they feel
like they need to niche downbecause they're getting pulled
in you know 20 differentdirections, and maybe the model
that you have sounds uhinteresting.
Any final thoughts on um onrunning a painting business and
making it more efficient?
SPEAKER_00 (29:27):
Yeah, I would say especially new companies that
are small companies that want tokind of focus on quality,
definitely you know, niche down,focus on kind of that one that
you can do a lot of things, butall your marketing should be
geared towards one specificthing that you know you can do
100% of the time, every timeperfectly.
And that's you know, make thatyour primary focus and see if
(29:49):
you can even break that downfurther, right?
Like we did interior painterpainting.
Well, we broke that down tointerior doors, even.
So if you can find that smallthing that you can just do every
time.
It's profitable, you know, focuson that, you know, as as much as
you can from a marketingperspective.
Um, and then I think from uh youknow, just be clean, be
(30:11):
organized, be efficient.
Um, and then I guess what I'mlooking for personally is I'm
kind of to the peak of what Iknow from a scaling of business,
right?
Like I've this is the biggestI've been.
This is you know, everything'srunning smoothly, but what's
that next step?
Um, you know, who's the whowhat's that next hire?
So I'm kind of looking for justa mentor in the painting
(30:32):
industry or you know, even kindof any business that's gone to
that next level of okay, nowwe've got a secretary, now we've
got project managers, we've got,you know, what's that next big
leap while maintaining quality?
So I'm looking for a mentor inthat regard.
If you know anyone like that umis willing to talk to me.
Um trying to think what else.
Yeah, it's kind of about it.
(30:53):
Just be good at what you do andrespect what you do and respect
people's homes, and you don'thave to do everything.
SPEAKER_02 (30:59):
So makes a lot of sense.
All right.
I really appreciate it, Micah.
And for the audience and thelisteners, with that, we will
see you next week.
Welcome to the Profitable Painter Podcast.
The mission of this podcast issimple.
To help you navigate thefinancial and tax aspects of
starting, running, and stealinga professional painting
business, from the brushes andladders to the spreadsheets and
balance sheets, we've got youcovered.
But before we dive in, a quickword of caution.
(00:21):
Nothing easier on this podcastshould be considered as
financial advice, specificallyfor you or your business.
We're here to share generalknowledge and experiences, not
to replace detailed advice youget from a professional
financial advisor or taxconsultant.
We strongly recommend youseeking individualized advice
before making any significantfinancial decision.
SPEAKER_02 (00:42):
Welcome to the Profitable Painter Podcast, the
show where painting contractorslearn how to boost profits, cut
taxes, and build a business thatworks for them.
I'm your host, Daniel Honan,CPA, former painting business
owner, and your guide tomastering the numbers that drive
success.
So let's dive in and make yourbusiness more profitable one
episode at a time.
I'm super excited today to bespeaking with Micah out of
Colorado.
(01:03):
He has a really cool business,uh, Wild Fox Painting.
And so I'd like to welcome youto the podcast.
Micah, how's it going?
It's great.
Thank you.
I'm excited to be here.
Yeah, man.
Um, so could you just to givelisteners an idea of where
you're coming from, when did youget started in the painting
industry and what's been yourjourney along the way?
SPEAKER_00 (01:21):
Yeah.
So um I've been painting since Iwas a kid.
My dad owned a you know cabinetbuilding shop.
So I painted for him, I did astain for him, kind of had that
hands-on since I was you knowfive years old.
Um, I think through high school,I ended up working with a local
painter.
So I did a lot of exteriorpainting um through high school
and then went into web design.
(01:42):
So my background is actuallysoftware.
And then uh September 2016 or2018, excuse me, um, I went out
and started my own paintingcompany again.
And yeah, I kind of was sick ofthe digital world and wanted to
get back on the trades andpainting made the most sense.
So, yeah, September 2018, I twoo'clock in the morning, I
started the company and had awebsite up that day, and I've
(02:04):
been busy ever since.
So nice.
SPEAKER_02 (02:07):
So you were pretty well embedded in the trains from
an early age, and then you kindof went and did something
completely different.
Uh, what what what drew you backinto the the trades?
SPEAKER_00 (02:19):
Um, I'd been working kind of full time for a company
doing doing design um and plusfreelance on site as well, and
the company kind of gotdestroyed through a bad article.
Um, and I just I kind of lost myjob essentially.
And so that was kind of for thatwas the last week of January
when that kind of happened of2018.
And I just I took six months.
(02:39):
I'm just like, what do I want todo?
Um, I wasn't feeling verycreative anymore.
I was kind of sick of being acomputer all the time.
And yeah, literally middle ofthe night, I was like, you know
what?
There's a brand new SharonWilliams going in down the
street.
Um, I had a friend that just waslooking for a painter.
Um, another friend was lookingfor a painter, and it just kind
of all made sense.
It was kind of a low startupcost because I was kind of
(03:01):
running out of money at thatpoint.
So I hadn't found what I wantedto do.
I knew I didn't want to work forsomebody, so you know, kind of
uh had to be my own company, hadto have my hours and something
at low startup cost, low skillkind of you know involvement.
And yeah, just the next day Ijust started that company and
kind of one of the bestdecisions I've made, to be
(03:22):
honest.
SPEAKER_02 (03:22):
So yeah.
So what what's the journey likebeen like since you started the
business in 2008?
You know, why has it been thebest decision that you've made?
SPEAKER_00 (03:32):
Um it's uh it's allowed me to be flexible,
right?
I mean, you you kind of go onyour own to have your your
freedom, right?
Which you end up working, youknow, 68, 60 to 80 hours a week
instead of 40, like you wouldwith the normal job.
But um, it still gives you thatfreedom.
So I can, you know, if I haveto, I could go pick up my kids,
or I can take them to a doctorappointment, or I could take a
(03:52):
day off if I really need to.
Um, but it's just everythingthat I planned.
Because I before I started thecompany, I I had mapped out
exactly what my ideal job was.
And so painting fit all of that.
And then once I startedpainting, I knew as a solo
painter, I couldn't take on hugejobs.
(04:13):
I knew I didn't want to doexterior.
So we've only done interior upuntil this year.
Um, and so I set these yearlygoals, both kind of financial
and just growth-wise.
I know I don't want to be a hugecompany necessarily.
Um, so each year I just I setthese new goals and I would
break them or double them.
And you know, just every yearsince then I've done that and
I've basically broke everyrecord every each year as I've
(04:35):
been growing and scaling.
I've kind of been scaling slowlyon purpose.
Um and yeah, looking to kind oftake it to that next step this
next next year or two.
SPEAKER_02 (04:47):
That's awesome.
So I so before you even startedthe business, you kind of mapped
out what do I like to do andwhat your ideal job would look
like.
And starting a painting businesswas like checking all the boxes
there.
SPEAKER_00 (05:00):
Yep.
Yeah, it was yeah, like lowstartup cost, it was you know,
low, no education to kind of getup to speed, um, low kind of
material expenses.
You know, I didn't I didn't wantto go out and buy a bunch of
tools and things like that, juststuff that I had.
Um, again, back to the freedom,just I could kind of work my own
hours, uh, could be my own boss.
(05:21):
I knew how to do it immediately.
I had a vehicle where I could,you know, hold the stuff that I
needed.
And yeah, I knew I could makemoney.
Um, and from the interiorperspective at that time of the
season, too, you know, Septemberis pretty late in the season.
I knew that exterior was goingto be kind of drying up as we
get into the winter months.
So I just I knew that you knowmy my cleanliness and my detail
(05:45):
and attention to detail justreally I could really excel in
interior and get work rightaway.
And that kind of proved to bealmost exactly as I expected it
to be.
And I didn't want to doexterior.
You know, I did exterior when Iwas younger.
You've got HOAs out here, so youhave to deal with that.
You've got weather, you've got,you know, 40 foot on a ladder
and on a hill on gravel.
I just I didn't want to do dealwith that, first of all.
(06:08):
Plus, just you know, from asafety perspective, I you know,
I'm kind of feeling too old tobe up too high on the ladder
anymore and and be in that thatdangerous of a situation by
myself.
Yeah.
Um just made sense and I coulddo it year-round and just kind
of been growing that ever since.
SPEAKER_02 (06:25):
Okay, yeah, makes sense.
So you're focusing on interiorand and cabinets, uh, and I've
seen some of your stuff on onTikTok with with the cabinet
refinishing.
Um and uh and so that's beenyour kind of your niche is is
interior, it sounds like.
SPEAKER_00 (06:43):
Yeah, so since since I started, yeah, the whole thing
was interior for sure.
And then I was just kind ofdoing cabinets, but I was doing
them in my garage, and I just Ididn't feel like I was getting
the quality I wanted.
Um my wife is getting upsetbecause I was taking over the
garage every other week, right?
And so I kind of put cabinets onthe side.
I'm like, I'm not gonna docabinets again until I can get a
warehouse.
Um, so I just we literallyfocused on interior jobs only
(07:05):
and only just painting, like notdoing staining, not doing faux
finishing, just you know,straight, we're gonna paint it,
it's gonna be done.
Um, and that's been that way upuntil I think 2022 or 2023 is
when I got the warehouse.
So then we started you knowreally focusing on cabinets and
like, okay, what process to dopaint cabinets, what's the best
(07:25):
paint we can use?
Because I want to do high-endcabinet painting.
I don't want to just do kind ofblow and go, you know, low-end
quality cabinet painting.
I wanted something that was justreally specialized because I've
got the warehouse, so we cantake the proper time, we can do
the proper prep compared to allmy competitors who you know
they're doing it on site,they're taking over a client's
garage.
So now we did interior, we didcabinets, and then 2024.
(07:50):
Um, I had a client reach outabout some interior doors, and
so we painted those quick andgot them off, and I realized
they're kind of a high profitmargin and just they were easy
to do in the warehouse.
So I started running ads in 2024for doors, and we ended up doing
600 interior doors last year inthe warehouse.
So, you know, it's kind of thissmall little niche that I found
(08:12):
that really isn't profitable ifyou do it on site.
So, you know, do it by hand oruh do it in someone's garage.
It's it's more effort than it isto actually, you know, to get
paid.
Whereas if I can take them off,just bring them here.
We can do again full prep likewe would cabinets.
We can do nice spray coats, um,we can patch stuff, keep the
dust here.
Um, so we did a big push oninterior doors last year, and we
(08:35):
did yeah, over 600 off site.
And then cabinets were justreally kind of rolling, and you
know, we had a good cabinetprocess, interiors, and now this
year I finally brought onsomeone, and now we're doing
full exterior and commercialwork as well.
So he manages that wholedepartment, and I kind of still
personally focus on the interiorside, and so we're kind of kind
of ramping up exterior and andwe'll really push it next year.
(08:57):
That's awesome.
SPEAKER_02 (08:59):
That's uh I think that's a I haven't heard of that
niche before.
Like you're just doing likeinterior door like refinishing,
which kind of makes sensebecause usually the door is
completely like the front dooris like completely different
than a lot of the rest of thehouse.
Um and so and and and and that'slike the focal point too, where
(09:20):
people want that front door tolook really good, and and often
just making that look reallygood can just elevate the whole
uh look of your house.
SPEAKER_00 (09:30):
So it's not even just front doors, it's all all
interior doors, right?
So your bedroom doors, which isnice too, because you know,
every house has 15 to 30 doors.
So you can kind of grab them allor grab half them at a time.
I can work on them you know atmidnight.
If you know if I'm runningbehind or something, I can you
know I can do it in thewarehouse and just do it
whenever I have a free moment orspray a quick coat and then go
(09:53):
off and do something else.
So it's just it's a nice fillerkind of service that just was
way more successful than I wouldhave ever imagined it to be.
Um this year's been slower onthat.
I don't know if my ads justaren't working as well, but it's
it's been fine because we'vebeen busy with elsewhere on
other stuff.
But it's just kind of a kind ofa cool thing that people, a
resident doesn't really thinkabout either.
(10:14):
It's like they don't think aboutdoors as being, oh, I could just
only paint the doors, right?
They they think it's either thewhole house and the doors, or
it's just you know, you don't dothe doors at all.
So my ads, when people see them,they're like, oh, I guess I
could just paint the doors.
So now I'm kind of pushing like,you know, refresh your white
doors, or hey, let's go with anaccent color, like a black, um,
(10:34):
be really bold and do somecolorful doors, you know, like
teal or brown or orangey orsomething, something different
with doors, because there's kindof a fun, it could be a fun
accent throughout your wholehouse without really spending a
lot of money, um, versus like anaccent wall, which is kind of
going out, um, which are beingreplaced by beachy walls now,
kind of like your wall with theyou know the boards on the back.
(10:56):
Um, so it's it's just kind of acool little service that I kind
of fell into accidentally.
SPEAKER_02 (11:02):
Yeah, that's that's really interesting.
Um you mentioned you had yearlygoals that you've every year
going back to 2018, you'veeither uh exceeded or you broke
it or doubled it.
Um but at the same time you'resaying you're trying to scale
slowly on purpose.
Um that was funny.
(11:24):
But uh can you give us an ideaof like where obviously you
started from zero in 2018?
Where where have you gone interms of revenue over the last
you know six, seven years?
SPEAKER_00 (11:34):
Yeah, so um my first year, my gross is what we can
gross in a month now, prettymuch.
So, you know, we went frombasically 12, is that 12x if you
did if that's right.
Um, so yeah, but if we have areally good month, we're
basically grossing what Igrossed my entire first year,
uh, which is pretty wild.
(11:55):
Um and right now it's it'sreally just two of us, kind of
two and a half of us on theinterior.
So, you know, we're doing almosthalf a million dollars each year
now, um, with basically two anda half, really just two people,
and now kind of two and a halfas I'm bringing on a new person
to kind of get her up to speed.
Um, so be able to do that withsuch a small team, yeah, pretty
(12:17):
impressive.
And yeah, to kind of still meetthose goals or exceed those
goals is you know really, reallyencouraging.
And you know, it's I think youneed to have those goals.
Um, something that really helpedme.
I think I started that in 20,either 2020 or 23 or 2024, I
started just really trackingeach kind of each week and each
(12:38):
month as far as revenue andexpenses go.
So in my Excel document, I haveeach month laid out and then
each week laid out within eachof those columns, right?
And so week one, week two, weekthree, week four.
Well, if if my goal is say 40grand a month, then come week
(12:58):
two, if I'm$10,000 behind whereI think I should be to reach
that goal, I know I can try andget more leads, or maybe I price
stuff a little bit higher or alittle bit lower, and you know,
maybe I'll go lower to try andwin more work.
Um, or if I'm ahead of schedule,then oh, that one bat, you know,
that one bathroom that's when Iwants painted, I could take that
to generate that little bit ofextra income.
(13:19):
I'm not gonna make a lot ofmoney on it, but it's not gonna
be a waste of time.
It's gonna help me get to mygoal.
So if by breaking it down kindof per week, I really know where
I'm at as far as reaching mygoals.
Anything above, you know, my myminimum is just icing on the
cake at that point.
Um, so a lot of people don'treally think that way.
I think they think more weeklyor more monthly.
(13:43):
Um, maybe some don't even thinkyou know per year, right?
They're just like, oh, what's myend-of-year numbers and kind of
go on?
Where me, I'm breaking it downalmost daily now and even
weekly, just so I know, okay,here's where I'm at.
I can I need a little bit morework, I need a little bit less
work, or I'm okay if I have lesswork, you know, things like
that.
And it's just it really kind ofmotivates you to you know get
(14:06):
more work or know that you'reokay, or you know, things like
that.
So yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (14:10):
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
Uh so basically you take the ifyou're shooting for 500,000, you
break that down into 52 weeks,and so you gotta hit you know
around 9,500 in production perweek to to hit that, but at the
same time, you also gotta sell9,500 uh as well.
(14:33):
Do you break it?
Do you also um do you have itbroken down like how many
estimates that you need to beapproximately doing to hit that
sales goal of$9,500 per per weekas well?
SPEAKER_00 (14:47):
Um, I think probably technically I have that.
I don't I wouldn't say Inecessarily go off of that
because each every job is sodifferent.
Um I have a I have a kind of awin rate that I focus on more.
So you know, my my goal win rateis about 38% of the estimates
that I do.
And right now I'm about 45% forthis year, which is kind of kind
(15:08):
of unusual.
Um so I think it's more thatway.
Um, and again, like if I knowI'm a thousand dollars behind,
you know, I can take thatsmaller job and it'll get me to
that number a little bit closer,and you know, things like that.
SPEAKER_02 (15:24):
So well, 45% close rate's still really good.
SPEAKER_00 (15:28):
It's really high.
Uh yeah.
My first year was like 65%.
I'm like, okay, I need to raisemy rates a little bit.
SPEAKER_02 (15:33):
So yeah, there you go.
Exactly.
Yeah, that's that's a goodobservation.
Um so you mentioned you have uhlike two and a half members on
the team.
Is that right?
SPEAKER_00 (15:47):
Yeah, so I've got my one full-time who he's doing all
the commercial side, so that'sbasically where he focuses.
And then I have a full-time uhgal who works for me.
She's been with me for a fewyears now.
And then one of her friendswanted to come on, kind of learn
the trade.
So she's been working out withus kind of part-time, 1099, to
(16:08):
kind of get her up to speed, andthen we'll look at bringing
around full-time, you know,probably next year sometime.
And just yeah, so I'll have twokind of two interior full-time,
my one exterior full-time, andthen myself, and between the
four of us, we we can do quite abit of work.
Um, we'll and we have subs forour exterior, so we kind of
that's more of a submodel than Xtier, interior is more of a
(16:29):
full-time model.
And then I have another, I hadanother full-time person, but
she was just in the caraccident, so she's out for a
while, possibly indefinitely.
So kind of two have things off.
But um, so it's supposed to beabout, yeah, kind of an extra
full-time person, but we're downa little bit right now.
Gotcha.
Okay.
We're kind of going into slowseason, so I'm kind of okay with
(16:51):
that.
We'll just kind of get throughslow season, then we'll ramp up
again next year.
SPEAKER_02 (16:55):
So okay.
So four four full-timeequivalent.
Essentially, yeah.
Yeah, okay.
And and then you're with thosethat four folks, um, you can
produce uh half a milliondollars about.
SPEAKER_00 (17:10):
Yeah, and that's and then I think next year will be
way more than that because we wekind of got a late start on the
exterior side.
So we just kind of we've beendoing kind of one job a week on
the exterior side, where nextyear I think we'll be like more
at three or four a week.
So it's really gonna once we getthat system really going and and
advertising properly for that,we'll we'll probably be closer
(17:30):
to a million next year, I wouldthink.
So nice.
SPEAKER_02 (17:35):
Yeah, and so do you think uh because usually it's
like a hundred thousand dollarsper per painter is kind of like
the rough guideline, so you'redefinitely above that uh with
the other thing.
I'm way above that, yeah.
I would say uh so do youattribute that efficiency with
just because you're laserfocused on interior, so you guys
(17:57):
are just super efficient withlike doing those processes, or
is it something else?
SPEAKER_00 (18:02):
I think it's both.
I think the fact that we a thatwe're such a small team, we just
have to be efficient.
Um two, yeah, since we for solong we only focus on interiors,
we could just really get good atour processes.
Um, whereas if you have asub-team, like they have their
own and that's always random,they always have new people
coming on.
So having a full-time team thatworks together consistently, we
(18:26):
just know who's gonna do what,who's better at what, here's how
we prep it.
Um, and so like we can my leadpainter and I, we can walk into
a like a cabinet job and noteven talk about it, and just
we'll have it prepped in youknow three hours because we just
know who's gonna do what, howhow we need to prep it.
Um, same with the house.
We can just walk into the houseand grab the tape and start
(18:48):
start rolling and just talk andstart going.
Um, but yeah, the process is isbig.
I don't really have an outlinenecessarily.
It's like in a document, but umas we scale, we'll have to do
that.
But you know, we really focusedon on the detail and like we
tape almost everything.
So all our woodwork gets tapedoff, the floors get taped off.
(19:10):
Um it's just it's faster.
I know a lot of painters youknow on Facebook groups kind of
complain about, oh, you're not areal painter if you use tape.
Well, if you want to be 10%slower than me and you know take
longer to do it, that's yourproblem, not mine.
It's you know, it's a sellingpoint for me to use tape.
I can have cleaner lines.
Um, it's way faster, in myopinion.
Yeah, you spend a bit more onpaint, but now I can have that
(19:32):
$15 an hour person doing aperfect line versus hiring that
40-hour painter who's gonna sitthere on the floor and you know,
cut that edge in twice and thatceiling in twice.
You know, taping it is just wayfaster than you can mini-roll it
and have it done really quick.
Um, so that that was a hugespeed boost once we switched to
just taping everything off andusing mini-rollers, you know, in
(19:55):
90% of the areas and large incorners and stuff, and then and
even like door frames, we'lltape off door frames, we can
just roll right up that doorframe around windowsills.
Um, we still kind of cut in thetop edge most of the time.
Um, but once in a while we'llkind of tape that too.
But it's just a little bitharder to tape the top edge, in
my opinion.
Um, but yeah, the taping hasjust really made us way more
(20:16):
efficient, way more consistentin quality, right?
So we we always know it's gonnabe a straight line, we know it's
gonna be perfect.
And again, I don't have to havethat 40 an hour painter cutting
in that edge twice to make aperfect line.
I can have you know$15 an hourperson like then my kids doing
it, you know, that kind ofthing.
SPEAKER_02 (20:33):
So yeah, no, it makes a lot of sense.
And as you mentioned, probably alot easier to scale that that
process than to find, you know,especially, you know, if if you
can't find uh that that thatpainter that's gonna be able to
(20:53):
cut, you know, in an amazing wayand everything, if you can just
have a process that compensatesfor that, where you can put Joe
off the street, train him on theprocess, and then he can do have
the same cutting lines withoutactually having to cut just
using tape.
That makes a lot of sense.
SPEAKER_00 (21:09):
And we have a highly textured walls out here.
I don't know what your guys'walls are like, they're smooth
or textured, but so you know,with an eggshell, or not
eggshell, but like an orangepeel kind of texture, you're
going over that edge four orfive times to get work it into
that texture and and get itgood.
So if it's a smooth wall, that'sone thing, you know, it's a
little bit easier to cut thatin, but you know, cutting in
(21:32):
that edge by hand on texture isjust it's slow and tedious,
especially on new new texture,because it's just it's so thick
and so dense that it's just it'salmost impossible to at a point.
So yeah, if you can just rollit, it's way easier to get the
paint in there and way faster.
So yeah, that makes sense.
SPEAKER_02 (21:48):
The other thing you mentioned was when you your team
goes to the job site, youalready each person knows what
they're gonna do.
So it sounds like you have kindof like you know, Tom does the
trim and the doors, or like doyou guys have a task organized
like that where the team knowsthey're doing a certain thing on
(22:11):
a house, whatever house it is?
SPEAKER_00 (22:12):
Yeah, I mean it's kind of unofficial just because
you know we're so small still.
Once we get bigger, we'll haveto have more, like you're
specifically doing this.
But you know, me and my leadpainter, when we when we were on
an interior job, we bothprepped.
So we both know, okay, we'lljust kind of be in the middle as
far as the prep goes and tapingstuff off.
Um, she's really good at trimwork, so she's you know, she's a
(22:33):
little bit shorter than I andsmaller than I'm, so she's
usually sit on the floor or kindof work on that, you know, work
on that kind of tedious stuff.
So she's really good at at trimwork.
I'm better at brushwork, so I Ialmost once prep's done, I
pretty much just start doingthat top edge, um, start cutting
that in.
And then once she's done withtrim, she'll just start rolling
the walls or the ceilings orwhatever we have, whatever else
(22:54):
we have.
Um, and then we kind of justmeet in the middle, and it just,
you know, that works with two orthree people because you kind of
just you know what needs to getdone.
And but yeah, as we scale, we'llhave to have more kind of okay.
You're gonna focus on this, I'mgonna focus on that.
We'll kind of meet in the middleagain.
And and every job is different,right?
So, you know, as far as drytime, maybe maybe they want
(23:15):
their master bedroom done thatday so they can, you know, kind
of have their bedroom back.
So now you're now you goteveryone in one room kind of get
everything done versus well,we'll do trim today, we'll do
walls tomorrow, we'll do, youknow, so it's just depends on
the job.
But for the most part, yeah,right now we can pretty much
walk in and just here's whatwe're doing, here's the rooms
we're doing it in, and get towork.
(23:37):
So it's pretty quick.
SPEAKER_02 (23:38):
Yeah.
Well, that that definitelysounds like it contributes to
how you're able to produce, youknow, so much revenue for for
the the the small team that youhave is that you know, you the
process with taping, and then itsounds like your your team knows
what they're good at and theythey focus on those things.
SPEAKER_00 (23:58):
And I think that's critical.
I think getting people to do thesame thing over and over and
over, they just get so good atit and they find their own
efficiencies versus yeah, okay,today I'm gonna tape, tomorrow
I'm gonna roll, tomorrow I'mgonna brush.
Like let them do one thing for along time and get good at that.
We still want to meet in themiddle, but like get them good
at that one thing.
And some people kind ofnaturally like one thing.
(24:21):
So let them let them be good atthat, that they like to do.
And the other thing too is we'revery, very clean and organized,
right?
So we don't just go around anddrop all the trash on the floor
and then come back and pick itup at the end.
Like we're always alwaysthrowing stuff away, have a bag
of trash kind of all the time,finish roll of tape, just throw
in the trash.
You know, a lot of painters,especially extra painters, will
(24:44):
just you know, throw it on theground and end of the job,
they'll walk around and pickstuff up.
Well, it's just that's notefficient.
If you're walking that way andyou happen to see them, just
grab it, right?
So those little efficienciesseem small, but when you
multiply it times you know 200jobs a year, 100 jobs a year,
that adds up prettysignificantly.
Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (25:02):
Yeah, so you you're basically you're not only
niching with your you know, justdoing interior painting.
And I know you add cabinets uhand the doors thing, but you're
pretty much just doing you know,interior painting.
Because a lot of painters, youpainting businesses, they're
doing pretty much anythingcoatings, interior, exterior,
you know, whatever, uh whateverpeople need, but you're you're
(25:25):
focused on interior, so thatkind of gives you a leg up on
efficiency because your team isseeing the same type of projects
over and over again.
But not only that, you're alsobreaking down even further where
your team members are very goodat a specific part of the
interior, like the trim or thedoors or whatever, because
they're kind of tasked organizedto do that because that's what
(25:47):
they're good at.
So you're getting like multipleum kind of niching uh
efficiencies there.
SPEAKER_00 (25:57):
Yep, and um I was gonna say like most of my team
members on the interim have beenfemale too.
So I don't know if that's partof it as well.
They're just kind of naturallycleaner, they're naturally
quieter, you know, even onsites, just you know, they're
not blurring music everywhereand just kind of organized in a
(26:18):
different way.
Um problem with females a lot oftimes is they're really short,
so it kind of pulls me back inon some high stuff.
But um, but yeah, I think it'sjust the clients are happier, I
think.
You know, if a if a femalepainter walks in, they seem to
kind of just relax a little bit.
Right.
Um and even though you couldhave the nicest man painter, you
(26:41):
know, come in and paint, butwomen, because a lot of times
it's you know, the woman willreach out and then I'll follow
up and the man will kind ofrespond, right?
And then you go meet with themin person, and the man answers
the door, and then his, oh,here's my wife, talk to her
about the project, right?
So it gets handed off to thewife most of the time.
SPEAKER_02 (26:59):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (27:00):
So to be able to have that kind of female
connection between the painterand you know the homeowner, it
seems insignificant, but I'vehad numerous clients like, oh,
your team was amazing, you know,they were quiet, they were
clean, they were professional,um, they were super sweet,
right?
You don't hear that about a mantypically like, oh, they're so
sweet and so kind, and just youknow, here's a tip, you know.
(27:22):
So it's it makes a bigdifference, and yeah, yeah,
women, women painters are great.
So yeah, it might be.
SPEAKER_02 (27:31):
It just makes complete sense.
Like you're especially becauseyou're focused on interior, and
so you're you have folks cominginto your home, can be a little
bit invasive or feel that way.
But if if it's a woman, they'rejust more it's less
intimidating, you know.
A bunch of guys like you don'tknow, uh, you know, it's just
(27:53):
gonna feel way different, likeyou, like you're saying.
So I think that makes a lot ofsense, especially when you're
focused on interior, if you canprovide that that just different
atmosphere and differentexperience.
Um and I think that's gonna bethat that that's huge.
I think a really good insight.
And I if you can actually scalethat model uh of an experience,
(28:15):
I think that would be huge foryour business.
SPEAKER_00 (28:17):
And I think back to the efficiency, the cleaning,
the being clean, we're not goingthrough and scraping splatter
off the floor for two hours atthe end of the job, like a lot
of other painters do.
It's like just be clean to startwith, have your hands clean.
Like any painter that has justpaint all over their hands all
the time and their brushespaint, like I hate that.
Like, why are you so messy?
Everything you touch is gonnaget a smudge on it, or it's
(28:40):
gonna be a paint on it.
So it's just being clean and andorganized is huge.
And no one no one does that.
It's weird to me.
SPEAKER_02 (28:48):
Yeah, no, definitely, definitely makes
sense.
Cool.
Well, uh, so you've been supergenerous with your time.
I I really appreciate it, Micah.
Um for for folks that arelistening, what what you know
advice would you have or anyfinal thoughts or asks of the
(29:08):
audience?
Um, maybe they're trying to growtheir business, maybe they feel
like they need to niche downbecause they're getting pulled
in you know 20 differentdirections, and maybe the model
that you have sounds uhinteresting.
Any final thoughts on um onrunning a painting business and
making it more efficient?
SPEAKER_00 (29:27):
Yeah, I would say especially new companies that
are small companies that want tokind of focus on quality,
definitely you know, niche down,focus on kind of that one that
you can do a lot of things, butall your marketing should be
geared towards one specificthing that you know you can do
100% of the time, every timeperfectly.
And that's you know, make thatyour primary focus and see if
(29:49):
you can even break that downfurther, right?
Like we did interior painterpainting.
Well, we broke that down tointerior doors, even.
So if you can find that smallthing that you can just do every
time.
It's profitable, you know, focuson that, you know, as as much as
you can from a marketingperspective.
Um, and then I think from uh youknow, just be clean, be
(30:11):
organized, be efficient.
Um, and then I guess what I'mlooking for personally is I'm
kind of to the peak of what Iknow from a scaling of business,
right?
Like I've this is the biggestI've been.
This is you know, everything'srunning smoothly, but what's
that next step?
Um, you know, who's the whowhat's that next hire?
So I'm kind of looking for justa mentor in the painting
(30:32):
industry or you know, even kindof any business that's gone to
that next level of okay, nowwe've got a secretary, now we've
got project managers, we've got,you know, what's that next big
leap while maintaining quality?
So I'm looking for a mentor inthat regard.
If you know anyone like that umis willing to talk to me.
Um trying to think what else.
Yeah, it's kind of about it.
(30:53):
Just be good at what you do andrespect what you do and respect
people's homes, and you don'thave to do everything.
SPEAKER_02 (30:59):
So makes a lot of sense.
All right.
I really appreciate it, Micah.
And for the audience and thelisteners, with that, we will
see you next week.
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