August 6, 2025 • 43 mins
In this episode, Daniel sits down with Matthew Johnson, a successful painting business owner from Louisiana, to explore his incredible journey, from picking up a brush as a teenager to building a multi-million-dollar company. Matthew shares candid insights on overcoming challenges, the importance of coaching and core values, and how to create a thriving team culture. Whether you're just starting out or looking to take your business to the next level, this conversation is packed with actionable advice and hard-earned wisdom.
Tune in to discover:
- How Matthew scaled his business from solo painter to a team-driven operation.
- The critical role of coaching and investing in the right systems.
- Strategies for building a strong company culture and making tough decisions.
- Why focus and intentionality are key to solving business bottlenecks.
Subscribe now and make your painting business more profitable, one episode at a time!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Profitable Painter Podcast.
The mission of this podcast issimple to help you navigate the
financial and tax aspects ofstarting, running and scaling a
professional painting business,from the brushes and ladders to
the spreadsheets and balancesheets.
We've got you covered.
But before we dive in, a quickword of caution.
While we strive to provideaccurate and up-to-date
financial and tax information,nothing you hear on this podcast
(00:22):
should be considered asfinancial advice specifically
and tax information.
Nothing you hear on thispodcast should be considered as
financial advice specificallyfor you or your business.
We're here to share generalknowledge and experiences, not
to replace the tailored adviceyou get from a professional
financial advisor or taxconsultant.
We strongly recommend youseeking individualized advice
before making any significantfinancial decisions.
(00:48):
Welcome to the ProfitablePainter Podcast, the show where
painting contractors learn howto boost profits, cut taxes and
build a business that works forthem.
I'm your host, daniel Honan,cpa, former painting business
owner, and your guide tomastering the numbers that drive
success.
So let's dive in and make yourbusiness more profitable, one
episode at a time.
Today, I am super excited totalk with Matthew Johnson out of
(01:09):
Louisiana.
He's built an amazing businessover there, so we're going to
dive into things with him today.
Welcome to the podcast, matthew.
How's it going?
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Thanks, man, appreciate it.
Things going pretty well downhere.
That's getting a little toastyoutside, but that's a perfect,
perfect time of the year forexterior painting, so we're
staying busy.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Yeah, whenever I think of Louisiana, I mean I
live in Orlando, so, like theweather's always, you know, hot
here, which I don't mind, butLouisiana, man, it's just a
different level of humiditythere.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Dude, you're preaching to the choir.
It's like when you step out ofthe New Orleans Louis Armstrong
Airport.
I've had people say it's likeyou have a hot, wet blanket over
you, like immediately.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Yeah, it brings me back to I was in the military
Fort Polk Louisiana.
I was there for a while and the, the weather and the mud it was
just it was.
It was intense for a whilethere.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
I was gonna say.
I was gonna say like, uh, yeah,fort polk, I actually went over
there, we actually looked atsome projects over there.
Like that is in the middle ofnowhere.
Yes, it's like there's nothing.
There's nothing over there.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Yeah, out in the middle of the woods Cool.
Well, I'm excited to dive intothings today, matthew.
So could you kind of givelisteners a perspective of where
you're coming from?
How did you get started in thepainting industry?
What's your journey been like?
What are some major milestonesthat you've hit along the way?
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Yeah, what have what's your journey been like?
What are some major milestonesthat you've hit along the way?
Yeah, so, um, I've obviouslyborn and raised here in baton
rouge, louisiana, right outsidenew orleans.
Uh, that's the easiest way tokind of help people locate us,
you know, in their mind.
Uh, baton rouge, uh, it's avery large metropolitan area for
louis.
Basically, from the time I was ateenager, my family, my
(03:10):
upbringing, I grew up in churchChristian background,
faith-based.
My dad was in full-timeministry.
He was a minister.
We grew up in that type ofhousehold.
I was homeschooled.
I come from a big family.
I have six sisters, no brothers.
So that was cool, that was afun little upbringing.
(03:31):
Early on we did a lot of worklike renovations, remodels,
things like that, because wetransitioned.
We didn't just move houses Iwas about 14.
We moved houses and we movedchurches.
I was about 14.
(03:59):
We moved houses and we movedchurches and we were brush and
roller, get to work, dummy.
So that was my introduction tothe painting industry was like
get to work and I naturally justkind of picked it up.
My very first job like actualjob that I got paid for was kind
of a funny story.
(04:19):
We're sitting at a little localrestaurant here in Livingston.
Livingston is technically wherewe live.
It's right outside of BatonRouge.
We're sitting here and MissGerilyn Taylor, she walked up to
the table.
She's like do y'all knowanybody that paints?
And my dad just looks at me andgoes he does.
And I'm like no, I don't.
So I was like what are youtalking about, dad?
(04:39):
I was like I've never, you know.
So I made a whopping $500 on myfirst job ever at 15.
I mean, I thought I couldretire man, like I had made my
$500.
I was like, man, I'm set.
I'm set for life.
I was good man.
So I just kind of did it on theside in high school, just
through the years in high school, didn't know what I really
(05:02):
wanted to do with my lifeobviously what 18-year-old does.
But at 18, around the 2016 flood, like Baton Rouge, this whole
area I don't know if you'refamiliar with that catastrophe,
but like the flood down here in2016, it was just horrible, just
devastating.
(05:23):
Thousands of homes justcompletely flooded and ruined.
So it was a boom in theconstruction industry there,
obviously, with painters androofers and sheetrock draw
wallers.
So it was just a huge boomthere in 2016.
I myself, personally, I justprinted out little business
cards that said Matthew Johnson,225-363.
(05:43):
I'm not going to put my phonenumber out, but anyway.
But just went out and handedthose cards out and I myself I
painted like eight houses duringthat time.
So my introduction to thepainting industry was very
hands-on, very school of hardknocks, and that's not even what
I wanted to do, like I reallydidn't know what I wanted to do.
(06:03):
I thought I really didn't knowwhat I wanted to do.
I thought I was going to gointo like communications, maybe
like broadcasting or somethinglike that.
You know I got the hair to doit, you know.
So you know, but the smile, youknow the smile and the hair to
do that.
But I thought I was going to gointo something like that.
I went to college for onesemester, worked the normal job
(06:25):
for four months at Hobby Lobbyit was literally the worst four
months of my life.
So worked a regular job, wentto college for a whole semester
and said screw all that notdoing that, and so I decided to
start my painting businessbecause I figured that was the
only thing I was good at at thattime.
So you know, maybe I'll just dothis little painting business
(06:47):
thing for a little while andthen move on to the next thing.
So that was when I was 19 andI'll be 27 at the end of this
year.
So seven years later, here weare.
So, yeah.
So from there, 2020 is where Ireally like formed the LLC,
(07:09):
started hiring people, reallystarted to go hard it wasn't
just me anymore.
Like I started hiring people,getting crews started to you
know, got a marketing guy,started to put some things
together and like I kind of raninto different people like
bookkeeping for painters, appcAcademy for Professional
Painting Contractors, paintingBusiness Pro with Eric Barstow.
(07:30):
Eventually, I got hooked upwith Brian Diamond I don't know
if you know Brian Diamond withContractor Life Academy, but got
hooked up with him about in2023.
Um, but got hooked up with himabout in 2023.
Um, so that those are like theprograms and like the different
um communities that I came intouch with Um and so those were
(07:53):
all helpful.
Um, those those differentthings there, um.
But essentially 2020, we didabout 200,000 in sales, which I
thought was crazy.
Like I just thought that waslike, oh my God, this is
unbelievable, did about andthat's our first year and that
was 2020, that was COVID and Itechnically didn't get
completely like full-fledgedstarted until March.
(08:15):
So we technically did 200K inlike nine months.
So it wasn't.
It's not not terrible.
I mean, dude, I'm 21 years old,20 years old at the time.
It was kind of crazy.
So yeah, 2021, having abusiness, starting a business
like that.
2021, we did $800,000 in sales.
(08:39):
And then 2022, we did a million.
2023, we dipped a little bit.
We did right under a million, Ithink, because I got sick.
I was literally sick for liketwo months, like I had mono was
hospitalized for like a week.
It was like it was terrible,terrible, terrible time,
terrible time in the business, alot of.
(09:00):
I could tell you a whole storywith that.
But then, 2024, I started toreally assemble our team.
So I have a operations managerover production, a project
manager, a marketing coordinator, which is a sales rep.
Our marketing coordinatorstarted to build the sales team
and now I have a clientexperience specialist which is
(09:21):
our lead handler.
So, 2024, we did 1.2, 1.1.
And then this year we're ontrack to do 1.5, 1.8 this year
as right now, just because wehad a really weird month in
April where it was just abysmalwith sales and we were
transitioning through somedifferent hires so I was
(09:43):
switching some things up.
But yeah, our trajectory, wewere kind of transitioning
through some different hires, soI was kind of switching some
things up, um, but yeah, ourtrajectory, we were at a run
rate of like two million forthis year.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Nice, that's awesome.
That's a pretty incrediblejourney, and so it sounds like
you're starting to get thingsdialed in for as far as those
key positions.
So you said you had a right.
Now you have a project manager.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Ops manager, salesperson and then a lead
handler.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
Okay, and the lead handler is basically what type
of outbound are you doing?
Outbound marketing?
Or like door-to-door, orFacebook ads, like?
What type of?
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Yeah, so I'll work with Ricky at Homeowner
Marketers.
Work with him.
He does all of our Facebook adsand our Google SEO.
So, like our majority of ourleads other than our brand
ambassador program and like ourreferral program, majority of
our leads come from Google andFacebook.
(10:50):
Right now we don't we reallyhaven't diversified our
marketing channels yet.
We're just really trying todial in the team right now and
just financials and the team,and then we'll start to
diversify a little bit.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Gotcha.
So your lead handler's doingthe speed to lead for those
Facebook and just making surethat the inbound calls are
getting answered, and then yourops is managing the crews and
then salespersons closing thedeals, right, yeah, okay,
awesome.
So you have a pretty goodsounds like you have a pretty
good team set up, you know, andyou're on track to do 1.8
(11:26):
million this year, which isamazing, yeah, so tell me about
how you went from, you know,basically just painting houses
on your own, just by yourself,to building what sounds like a
pretty great team and you'realmost on the verge of doing
(11:48):
multiple millions.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Yeah, that transition was pretty difficult.
If I'm going to be completelytransparent and honest, there
was a lot of hiccups, a lot oflearning curve.
Um, if I could go back, I'llsay it like this If I could go
back, I would have invested moremoney in things that really
made a difference in thebusiness.
(12:11):
Um, like, maybe taken not justthe Painting Business Pro basic
course, but like get somecoaching, really get things set
up, maybe like BreakthroughAcademy, or find somebody like
Brian Diamond a lot sooner andget that coaching, that business
coaching.
If I could go back, if I couldgo back, I would have invested
(12:32):
money and time into stuff thatreally made a difference, rather
than stuff that I thought, oh,I'm going to try this little
marketing thing, oh, I'm goingto get the vehicle wrap, oh, I'm
going to go do this.
Or oh, I'm going to try thisand oh, I'm going to All that
stuff.
Really, they weretime-consuming activities but
they weren't revenue-generatingactivities.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Yeah, no, I think that's a I'm sorry, go ahead.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
No, and that's where the transition finally started
to happen.
In the last year or two iswhere I started to let go and
put the right people in place.
Sometimes you have to take riskin business.
You have to take that risk oflike okay, I don't have to pay
anybody if I just do this taskmyself, but you're eating all
(13:17):
your time up.
You're never going to build thebusiness or be able to work on
the business and create systemsand processes and documentation
in the business.
Something as simple as an SOPfor onboarding a new salesperson
, even if it's just a Google Doc, even if it's just something as
simple as that.
Like you don't even havesomething like that in place, oh
, I'll just train them and showthem around and show them the
(13:39):
thing and let them shadow me,and that's not a documented
process.
I mean, that's just somethingas simple as that.
That like you don't know thator think that way your first
year in business, you're justtrying to think you're just
shooting from the hip, justslinging jobs and trying to get
money and win jobs and you'redesperate, you know.
(14:00):
So it's just a hard transitionand I think people underestimate
how long that takes sometimes,and maybe it took way too long
for me.
Maybe I really was a dummy andjust couldn't figure things out.
But that stuff, those stepstake way longer than people make
it seem.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Yeah, and I loved what you said about you wish you
did coaching sooner, becausebefore you really had someone to
kind of run through things withyou that had been there before
and done the same things thatyou're trying to do.
Before that you were doing kindof whatever the shiny new
(14:41):
object was, you know, oh, thisis a, this is a hack that I can
implement into my business andthat that should, and you're
just like 100 shiny objects andjust getting your attention
diverted, it sounded like.
But you didn't have somebody tokind of guide you through like,
hey, here, here's where youreally need to put your focus
and not worry about all theseyou know shiny objects.
(15:01):
You know, start with this focuson this, finish that and then
move to this thing.
So I think it sounds like onceyou got that going, that kind of
accelerated your learning butalso the growth of your business
.
Is that fair to say?
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Yeah for sure, that was huge.
Just trying to transition fromthat and unfortunately, the only
way to solve that problem thatlack of experience and
understanding.
There's a gap.
There's a knowledge gap from aguy that's a year one and a guy
(15:39):
that's a year 15.
There's a huge knowledge gapthere.
The only way you can bridgethat gap is a paywall of hey,
let me pay for your time so youcan give me your expertise and
guidance.
And it's worth that investmentbecause think about it, even if
it's $5,000 a month, if that$5,000 a month can create
(16:02):
$150,000 worth of revenue.
I mean, come on, I mean that'spretty simple math there.
But guys are afraid to do thatbecause they're saying, oh,
that's eating into my margin,pay yourself a little bit less
and you're going to be able topay yourself a lot more, a lot
sooner in the big picture.
In the big picture there, guysare afraid to spend that money.
(16:25):
They're afraid to invest thatbecause they feel I'll just
figure that out.
No, you're not.
You think you can, even ifyou've got a degree.
I have, you've.
I have five years of salesexperience at the dealership and
I've got this.
And I've got this experienceand I've been a painter for 30
years.
A painter and a business ownerare two different things.
I got news for you.
(16:45):
It's just so, it's something.
If I had to go back to my20-year-old self, I would say,
hey, that $10,000 that you havesaved up, hire a coach, go to
Breakthrough Academy, go findsomebody like Brian Diamond.
Hey, go, blah, blah, blah, gofind a really good yada, yada,
(17:09):
yada and learn these things andset the business up right and
figure it out a lot quicker, alot sooner.
And the other piece of advicethat I would tell people too is
be okay with making harddecisions and quick decisions.
Be okay and learn to be okaywith making very hard decisions
(17:34):
and having hard conversations.
Be okay with making very harddecisions and having hard
conversations.
I can't tell you how many timesI was slow to fire somebody, or
I was slow to get rid ofsomebody, or I was slow to make
a change in the business, or Iwas slow to bite the bullet on
something, or I was slow to havethat hard conversation with
(17:55):
somebody.
You can't be afraid.
You can't be afraid of thatbeing in business.
You're in a high-risk,high-reward arena where you're
going to have some hardconversations and they're not
going to be fun.
You're going to have some harddecisions to make and you got to
make them fast, or you're goingto pay in the nose for it.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Yeah, yeah, that's a great point.
I mean, as the business owneryou're really that is your job
you should be making those,identifying what are the hard
decisions and making them asquickly as possible, because
those are usually, you know, noone else in your organization is
going to make them for you,they're not going to have those
hard conversations and they'renot going to make those hard
decisions.
Hard conversations, or andthey're not, they're not gonna
make those hard decisions.
(18:36):
So the and as you grow, theyusually get harder and harder.
It doesn't get easier.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Yeah, Because you realize that it's going to add a
lot to your plate and you knowthat it's going to be difficult
and it's.
It's going to be hard andthere's going to be that
transition period of like, okay,I've got to replace this person
, or I've got to replace thisthing, or I've got to pay for
this thing.
But what opportunity cost?
What is it costing you inopportunities?
What's it costing If you've gota sales guy that you're giving
(19:09):
him 10, 15 appointments a weekbut he's converting two of them?
What's it costing?
You might as well go run theappointments yourself while
you're looking for a new personthat will actually go convert
40% of those jobs rather thantwo of them.
You know, like what are youcosting yourself?
(19:29):
Like you might as well go runthem.
Why are you going to paysomebody else?
Pay yourself that commission Ifthey're not going to close.
Get rid of them.
Start looking for a new personand while you're looking for a
new person and you're puttingtogether a better system and a
better training and a betteronboarding for the new person or
the new hire, go sell some jobs.
Like guys get stuck in theirhead like, oh, I can't go back,
(19:51):
Like I can't go back.
Sometimes you have to.
Like, oh, I can't go back.
Like I can't go back.
Sometimes you have to.
Sometimes you've got to go backto the drawing board and retool
and restructure because maybeyou, as the business owner, you
(20:13):
haven't evolved to a point foryour team to evolve to a point
that you need them to be at.
So you're still here and youwant them here, but you've got
to go up here so that they canthen be here where you needed
them to be.
Yeah, You've got to evolveyourself.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
Yep, yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
And one of the things youmentioned earlier was you've got
to learn to let go and you'vegot to put the people in the
right place.
You know, you got to learn tolet go and you got to put the
people in the right place, andit sounds like you've had to
have a lot of learning in this,this realm, and you've had to
have those hard conversations.
But could you just talk alittle bit more about letting go
(20:45):
, putting people in the rightplace?
What does that look like foryou and your company?
Speaker 2 (20:50):
So, um, we kind of have a mindset that I adopted
from Brian Diamond at CLAContractor Life Academy.
Working with Brian these lastfew years, I've actually got
like a culture kind ofestablished now Our core values.
I've got five core values thatwe've established and we try to
(21:11):
live by at Swift.
Basically, one of the phrasesthat we say is build, don't
break and I stole that frombrian, but it's build, don't
break.
Um, often we can look at, wecan look at conversations, hard
conversations, and all we'redoing is breaking.
It's just negative.
(21:33):
But there's a way that you couldgo about it and say, hey, I, I
really like what you've beendoing, you've really put in a
lot of hard work.
But here's what I'm seeingMaybe we could clean some things
up.
Blah, blah, blah, blah.
And I know that's stupid,simple, but you really don't
think about it in the heat ofthe moment when you're upset, or
you see they didn't send aproposal out, or you see that
(21:55):
they haven't been leaving theirnotes in the CRM, or you see
that they haven't been followingprotocol, or you fill in the
blank, and so in the heat ofthose moments, you have to
remember and put yourself hey,this is a crucial conversation.
And I need to remember build,don't break.
Is what I'm about to say goingto build them up or is this just
(22:18):
going to break them down?
Is this going to create theright atmosphere and culture
moving forward?
And so those crucialconversations and there's a book
Crucial Conversations.
You're probably familiar withit.
I'd say any CEO or any businessowner should read that, because
when you start having a teamand you start putting together a
(22:39):
team and you start having teammeetings and you're in the
office and you've got a staffand you're handling departments
sales to production, productionback to sales so all these
departments, you've got to makethese transitions and these
channels smooth and connectedand they all have the same
vision and goal in mind, butthey need to all be on the same
(23:03):
page.
And so that's difficult whenyou're not coming to the
conversation the right way, andoften you have to be willing to
put people in their place, butyou can't do it in a harsh way.
You can't do it.
You're literally going to breakand destroy rather than build
up if you're not careful.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
So for core values.
So is one of your core valuesbuild, don't break.
Is that one of them?
Speaker 2 (23:34):
That's basically one of the phrases or statements we
use.
Ours are ownership, integrity,excellence, connection and
communication okay, and so whatdo you?
Speaker 1 (23:51):
because when I first learned about core values years
ago, I didn't quite understandwhat the purpose of them.
I was like, did you just put abunch of fancy words on a piece
of paper and yeah, so those are.
So what?
What are core values actuallydoing for your, your company and
and how does actually impactwhat you guys do on a day-to-day
(24:13):
basis?
Speaker 2 (24:14):
So, basically, what you have to do is and it's hard
to do it with people thatalready work for you because
they're going to say what typeof bull crap are you on right
now, Like, what's all this newstuff about?
Build, don't break, no problems, only solutions.
Communication is everything.
Excellence in the details.
(24:35):
Because on those five words,the five pillars, I have like a
phrase.
Like there's a phrase that goeswith that Excuses, ownership
over excuses, so ownership likethat, but ownership over excuses
.
So it's different things.
It's hard to do it with peoplethat already work for you when
(24:58):
you try to make that transitionand you say, hey guys, because
what I did was I just insertedit.
I just said, hey guys, justwanted to share.
We already have the heart ofthese things at Swift, we
already kind of have the heartof this, but I really want to
(25:18):
implement it and make it a partof how we do things here, how we
communicate with each other,how we communicate with our
clients, how we operate witheach other, how we treat each
other.
I think this is reallyimportant for us because I think
this will help establish somethings that will help us grow
and build something positivetogether, because I never want
to build an environment where wecan't grow and we can't talk to
(25:40):
each other, where we can'tcommunicate with each other,
where we can't be honest witheach other and open with each
other.
I'm going to keep you guysaccountable to these core values
, but you know what I need y'allto do for me.
I need y'all to be willing tokeep me accountable too.
And, of course, build don'tbreak, because I am the boss,
but build, don't break.
(26:01):
And so whenever we come to theconversation that way I've
already seen the transition mysales guy's coming to me in a
different way.
He's not coming to me fussingand complaining and being
negative.
He's coming to the conversationknowing that I'm going to come
to the conversation in apositive way, because it
basically lets everybody take abreath and not have so much
(26:24):
tension or realize that thingsare going to be handled a
certain way.
They're not going to be handledWait, why did you not do that
man?
Come on, man.
Way.
They're not going to be handled.
Wait, why did you not do thatman?
Come on, man.
That's not bill, don't break,that's right, you know.
And then if I don't perform,they could say well, boss, you
know.
Hey, you know ownership overexcuses.
No problems, only solutions.
(26:44):
You know, you're right, you'reright, you're right, so it's so.
It's basically really justcoming forth with it.
Now.
It's easier with new hires.
You just show them hey, here's,you know.
During the onboarding processyou're like, hey, you know,
here's some of our core valuesand this is how we weave them
into our communication, becauseevery sop that I create, uh,
(27:06):
chat, gpt is my best friend, uh,but every sop that I create in
the instructions, chat alreadyknows our core values.
It knows this is how we buildthese things out With this in
mind.
Build this out and what thislooks like.
Our meeting agendas, ourcadences, our messaging, our
(27:31):
templates, our template text,our emails, our debriefs
everything has those fivepillars in mind.
And so, whether you'retransitioning and making a hard
transition with the team thatyou already have, or you're
doing it with new hires, whichit's easier to do with new hires
(27:53):
you just got to implement it,you just got to put it in and
say, hey, this is it, this iswhat we do now.
This is hey, I was on some bullcrap before and I was trying to
figure it out myself, but Ihope you guys are willing to
come along with me on this newjourney of elevating and
evolving so that the businessand the entity can grow.
(28:14):
If the entity and the businesscan grow, the only way it can do
that is if the head honchodecides to elevate and grow.
Because the business isn'tgoing to do it by itself, I've
got to uplift it along with theteam.
So I've got to bring you guysup to my level, for instance, my
operations manager andproduction manager.
They were like Matthew, wedon't know what you're doing.
(28:37):
Like this was just like twoweeks ago.
We don't know what you're doing.
Like what's?
You're kind of leaving us inthe dust here.
You're kind of leaving us inthe dark here.
I'm like what's going on?
You're making all these changesand you're doing all these
things, but I don't know whatthe heck's going on.
Like what are you?
Like what are we doing?
Like what's the plan?
What's the vision?
Like what's going on?
Like you gotta let us help you,we gotta key us in on this
(28:59):
stuff.
Like we don't know orunderstand.
We don't understand.
We want to understand.
Now.
Good team members and good hires, people that you may, if they
care, they want to understand,they want to have clarity on oh,
this is why we're doing that,because us, as business owners,
like, oh, we're just doing itand that's how we're going to do
(29:19):
it.
No, you got to give anunderstanding.
It's almost like children, likeyou got to give your children a
why, so they understand whyit's important and why it
matters, why it matters, why itmakes an impact, why it matters,
why it makes an impact, why itmakes a difference.
Because they're just going tosee your staff is just going to
think of it as stupid.
They're going to this is stupid, like we're doing just fine,
(29:39):
we're doing the thing.
We're doing business already.
What's all this bull crap?
What's all this mess?
This is just a bunch of hoopla.
This is what's.
But it means something.
It really does make adifference.
Because, as a young businessowner, I'm seeing all these guys
talking about mindset, mindset,this, and I just rolled my eyes
at it.
A lot Like what you did withthe core value thing.
(30:01):
I don't get it.
I mean I don't know, but whenyou're on the flip side of it
and you're on the other side ofit, you're like, dang, why
didn't I have that before?
I should have had this.
I should have had these thingsestablished a long time ago and
that's where the biggercompanies and the companies that
grow and build a good team,they have that stuff and it
seems lame, it seems like abunch of bull.
(30:23):
You know what?
It seems like a bunch of bull,crap and a bunch of you know,
but it's really important, likeit really does make an impact.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
It really does make a difference not just in your
team, but in yourself.
Yeah, one of the things.
So your core values are almostlike your brand board.
you know those brand boardswhere it has like all your
colors for your logo and yourwebsite and all that stuff.
Your core values are basicallylike it sounds like your brand
board for your processes andyour website and all that stuff.
Your core values are basicallylike it sounds like your brand
board for your processes andyour, the culture of your team.
It's kind of like here are theingredients for how we're going
(31:02):
to do operations and that'sgoing to basically communicate
the brand.
The community communicate thebrand similar to how your your
brand board communicates thelike how your brand looks.
The core values communicate howyour brand actually comes
across in the actions, thebehaviors of the organization
(31:22):
and people.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Yeah, and it's.
It's, I would say, and not justbecause I'm saying all this.
Everything that I'm telling you, I've learned from experience,
but also learned from a coachand Brian.
Um, these everything that I'mtelling you I've learned from
experience, but also learnedfrom a coach, from Brian.
These are things that I havelearned and I have paid for this
knowledge.
I've paid for this knowledgeand you can either pay for it
(31:44):
with your time or you can payfor it with your money.
The knowledge, because there isa knowledge gap.
And, daniel, you've built a verysuccessful business and have a
full-fledged team.
Even from the time that I'vewatched you and from the time
I've observed, like it was justyou and maybe some vas or
something you know five, sixyears ago, but like, oh my god,
(32:05):
like you've boomed, you've grownand exploded where it's.
Like you're just nationallyrecognized and partnered up with
all these big guys and thesejuggernauts in the painting
industry.
But you, you know just as wellas me, like I know you have a
coach, I know you have somementor, some coach or some
program that you're taking to toget you to that point.
(32:25):
You didn't just do that on yourown.
No offense, I mean not thatyou're not capable, but you
wouldn't have done it in thisshort of time.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Right, absolutely.
Yeah, having a coach isindispensable.
I mean, if you look at my P&L,my training and education line
item, it's just ridiculous Spenta lot of money on it, but it
comes back, like you mentionedearlier, comes back as a return
on investment many times over.
So, yeah, I'm right there withyou.
(32:52):
One of the other things youmentioned was when you're
talking to your team, you alwayssay, like, what the why behind
it.
And it reminded me of in themilitary whenever you had to
write an order to tell soldiersto do something, or even just a
verbal order that you give them.
You always have to give themthe task and intent.
(33:14):
So two things you always haveto communicate is the task of
what you want them to do andalso the intent.
And the intent is basically thewhy.
What are you trying toaccomplish?
So if you just tell somebody,hey, go move those sticks from
point A to point B, they mightdo it, but then if they don't
(33:36):
understand the intent behind whyyou told them to move the
sticks, it might get lost whensomething changes.
So providing that task andintent really helps people to
understand.
Like, okay, well, if somethingyou know, he wants me to move
these sticks over here becausewe're trying to build a house,
and so we're.
We're putting wood in this area, and so we, you know.
(33:59):
But if the location of the homechanges, maybe I should move it
over there instead of over hereso well, it gives context,
gives context and clarity.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
Yeah, yeah, I like that task, task and intent.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
Yes, and and I think there was, I can't remember is
there was this company, I can'tremember who, which company it
was, but basically you alwayshad to put the why of.
Whenever you told somebody todo something else, you had to
put the why behind it, otherwiseit was a fireable offense.
(34:35):
You literally could get firedif you did not put the why
behind a task that you askedsomebody to do something.
So they took it prettyseriously.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
Well, yeah, I think as business owners, we can get
caught up in our own ways andmaybe a little bit prideful or
feel like it's too much energyto explain, like how much more,
a little bit more time investedin a conversation and giving
instructions or giving clarityor giving a clear path on what
(35:07):
you want done.
You've got to give clarity tothat, because it's like.
This is why Because I literallysaw my operations manager and
my production manager as theywere sitting on my left side and
on my right side here.
I saw the light bulbs go off onboth of them really around the
same time where the light bulbwent off and I could see the
(35:29):
gears going in their head oflike oh okay, because all I did
in that conversation.
They're like well, we're nottrying to come down on you, boss
, and we're not trying to breakyou, we're trying to.
I said no, no, no, no.
I said exactly what I've beenimplementing and trying to
change and shift in the business.
You guys just exemplified itand you didn't even realize you
(35:50):
were doing it and so I'veaccomplished my goal.
And they're like what?
And I was like no, I wantedy'all, I want the reason why we
have these meetings and thesecadences, and the reason why
I've been speaking to y'all inthis way is so that you guys
would speak to me the same wayand we would communicate the
same way.
(36:11):
So what y'all just did was nota problem and I didn't need.
I hope y'all realize y'alldon't need to be afraid or
scared or worried to have thattype of conversation with me.
We need to have that kind ofconversation and I said and I
apologize that you guys feltlike you couldn't come to me
before.
Yeah, and so it's like, andthat right there, as the owner,
(36:34):
I was taking ownership andimplementing one of the core
values, just taking full-fledgedownership yes, no, that's
awesome.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
Um, it sounds like you you're really building in
culture, like intentionallybuilding culture, because
culture is going to be there,regardless whether you are
intentionally building it.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
Well, that's the scary thing is you could
accidentally be building aculture that sucks.
It's just terrible.
Everybody's got a stinkyattitude, or everybody's afraid
to talk to you, or everybody'safraid to bring something to you
or tell you something, and likethey start cutting corners and
(37:19):
skipping steps and not doingthings the right way, because
they're afraid, because they'reworried, or they don't
understand, or they don't haveclarity, or they don't even know
what the heck they're doing orhow they're supposed to be doing
it.
Because there's no why has beengiven the?
Why hasn't been given theunderstanding?
Or how to do things or how toapproach things has not been
given?
The why has it been given theunderstanding?
Uh, or how to do things or howto approach things has not been
given.
And whose job is that?
(37:40):
It's not their job, it's yours,like it's your company.
You've got to build the cultureintentionally or you're going
to build somethingunintentionally that you have to
fix or that you've got to dealwith.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
Yep, yeah, it's.
It is a it's kind of a netculture, is like an abstract
thing, but it definitely hasvery concrete impacts on your
business.
So it's it's great to hear thatyou've really crafted that,
that culture in your businessand it sounds like it's working
because you've, you know, nearlydoubled the business you know
in the last couple of years.
And it sounds like it's workingbecause you've, you know,
nearly doubled the business youknow in the last couple years.
It sounds like, just from, youknow, getting that, getting that
(38:21):
coaching, so accelerating yourlearning and implementing uh to
grow your business very quickly.
So kudos to you for that.
Thank you, um cool, you've beensuper gracious with your time.
Do you have any ask of theaudience or any final thoughts
that you'd like to leave withthe audience, who you know,
(38:44):
other painting business ownerswho are trying to grow their
business to the next level?
Any final thoughts for them?
Speaker 2 (38:50):
Yeah, I would be very careful on adopting just one
ideology, because and what Imean by that is this there's a
lot of programs out there,there's a lot of coaches out
there, there's a lot ofdifferent paths and structures
and different things out there.
Either stick to one or take apiece of each one and create
(39:14):
your own, because what willhappen is you'll be trying to
implement this person's system,this person's system, this
person's system, and trying to.
You've either got to take justa piece like hey, appc, their
production stuff is amazing.
I'm going to take that.
Hey, brian sells stuff Amazing.
I'm going to take that.
Hey, brian sells stuff Amazing.
I'm going to take that.
(39:35):
Hey, painting Business Progetting started.
They're starting Building WorthFoundation that's great.
Their commercial stuff that'sgreat.
If I had to give people advice,either pick one and stick with
it, or, if you have the means todo it, take each one, go to
this camp, go to this camp, goto this community, learn this
(39:57):
and go step by step to fix eachproblem in your business, one by
one, because either most peoplethis is their livelihood or
they're either about to getstarted or they already started,
and so you can only go task bytask.
You can only go one problem ata time.
Because what I learned was,yeah, you can kind of fix
(40:20):
different departments and dodifferent things, but it's
literally focus on this task,get it done.
Hey, my sales sucks.
Let me focus on sales.
Let me hire a coach.
Let me go to seventh level withJeremy Miner.
Whatever, whatever salesideology you want to go with,
(40:42):
pick one and one that you knowworks and go with that, because
again, you can get so confusedand so overwhelmed with all the
different programs and all thedifferent systems and all the
different.
Either pick one and stick withit and do that system and you
can make it your own or takebits and pieces from everybody.
(41:02):
Um, because it's just reallydifficult when you're trying to
adopt a whole system fromsomebody and it's just you got
to make it your own.
Period Number one.
But that would be my advice,and I know that might be a
little bit confusing, but I hopethere's some clarity with that.
(41:25):
I hope there's some somethingsomebody can glean from that,
because that's something I'vehad to learn as well.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
Yeah, no, I mean, I think it makes sense, Because
one of the things that I likeabout that is you know, there's
so much information out there,but focus is the key in focusing
on the right things,specifically Because you can get
distracted.
But if you figuring out whatthe main bottleneck in your
(41:55):
business is like, if it's sale,sales or whatever, focus on the
sales process, you know, figureout either, like you said, go
find somebody that's really goodat sales, that that can teach
you a system, because you don't,you don't have to create
anything running a paintingbusiness, like everything's out
there to learn, and so there'sno, you don't.
(42:20):
You don't need to innovate toomuch on you know.
Be, you can be creative on theway you put things together, but
not necessarily like innovating.
You know you don't have to.
You could, but becauseeverybody's pretty much figured
these things out already.
So if you're, if your sales isyour issue, go out and find,
like you said, a salesperson ora sales system that works and
implement that and focus on thatuntil it's fixed and then find
(42:41):
the next bottleneck, becausethere's going to always be
another one after that.
But really try to identify whatis the most important thing to
focus on, find the resources tofix it and then focus on it
until it's fixed and then moveon to the next thing.
So I think that makes a lot ofsense to me.
Cool, well, I really appreciateyour time.
I feel like we could have, youknow, another three hour
(43:01):
conversation, but I want to berespectful of your time.
Matthew, you know I reallyappreciate your time For all our
listeners.
With that, we will see you nextweek.
Welcome to the Profitable Painter Podcast.
The mission of this podcast issimple to help you navigate the
financial and tax aspects ofstarting, running and scaling a
professional painting business,from the brushes and ladders to
the spreadsheets and balancesheets.
We've got you covered.
But before we dive in, a quickword of caution.
While we strive to provideaccurate and up-to-date
financial and tax information,nothing you hear on this podcast
(00:22):
should be considered asfinancial advice specifically
and tax information.
Nothing you hear on thispodcast should be considered as
financial advice specificallyfor you or your business.
We're here to share generalknowledge and experiences, not
to replace the tailored adviceyou get from a professional
financial advisor or taxconsultant.
We strongly recommend youseeking individualized advice
before making any significantfinancial decisions.
(00:48):
Welcome to the ProfitablePainter Podcast, the show where
painting contractors learn howto boost profits, cut taxes and
build a business that works forthem.
I'm your host, daniel Honan,cpa, former painting business
owner, and your guide tomastering the numbers that drive
success.
So let's dive in and make yourbusiness more profitable, one
episode at a time.
Today, I am super excited totalk with Matthew Johnson out of
(01:09):
Louisiana.
He's built an amazing businessover there, so we're going to
dive into things with him today.
Welcome to the podcast, matthew.
How's it going?
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Thanks, man, appreciate it.
Things going pretty well downhere.
That's getting a little toastyoutside, but that's a perfect,
perfect time of the year forexterior painting, so we're
staying busy.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Yeah, whenever I think of Louisiana, I mean I
live in Orlando, so, like theweather's always, you know, hot
here, which I don't mind, butLouisiana, man, it's just a
different level of humiditythere.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Dude, you're preaching to the choir.
It's like when you step out ofthe New Orleans Louis Armstrong
Airport.
I've had people say it's likeyou have a hot, wet blanket over
you, like immediately.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Yeah, it brings me back to I was in the military
Fort Polk Louisiana.
I was there for a while and the, the weather and the mud it was
just it was.
It was intense for a whilethere.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
I was gonna say.
I was gonna say like, uh, yeah,fort polk, I actually went over
there, we actually looked atsome projects over there.
Like that is in the middle ofnowhere.
Yes, it's like there's nothing.
There's nothing over there.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Yeah, out in the middle of the woods Cool.
Well, I'm excited to dive intothings today, matthew.
So could you kind of givelisteners a perspective of where
you're coming from?
How did you get started in thepainting industry?
What's your journey been like?
What are some major milestonesthat you've hit along the way?
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Yeah, what have what's your journey been like?
What are some major milestonesthat you've hit along the way?
Yeah, so, um, I've obviouslyborn and raised here in baton
rouge, louisiana, right outsidenew orleans.
Uh, that's the easiest way tokind of help people locate us,
you know, in their mind.
Uh, baton rouge, uh, it's avery large metropolitan area for
louis.
Basically, from the time I was ateenager, my family, my
(03:10):
upbringing, I grew up in churchChristian background,
faith-based.
My dad was in full-timeministry.
He was a minister.
We grew up in that type ofhousehold.
I was homeschooled.
I come from a big family.
I have six sisters, no brothers.
So that was cool, that was afun little upbringing.
(03:31):
Early on we did a lot of worklike renovations, remodels,
things like that, because wetransitioned.
We didn't just move houses Iwas about 14.
We moved houses and we movedchurches.
I was about 14.
(03:59):
We moved houses and we movedchurches and we were brush and
roller, get to work, dummy.
So that was my introduction tothe painting industry was like
get to work and I naturally justkind of picked it up.
My very first job like actualjob that I got paid for was kind
of a funny story.
(04:19):
We're sitting at a little localrestaurant here in Livingston.
Livingston is technically wherewe live.
It's right outside of BatonRouge.
We're sitting here and MissGerilyn Taylor, she walked up to
the table.
She's like do y'all knowanybody that paints?
And my dad just looks at me andgoes he does.
And I'm like no, I don't.
So I was like what are youtalking about, dad?
(04:39):
I was like I've never, you know.
So I made a whopping $500 on myfirst job ever at 15.
I mean, I thought I couldretire man, like I had made my
$500.
I was like, man, I'm set.
I'm set for life.
I was good man.
So I just kind of did it on theside in high school, just
through the years in high school, didn't know what I really
(05:02):
wanted to do with my lifeobviously what 18-year-old does.
But at 18, around the 2016 flood, like Baton Rouge, this whole
area I don't know if you'refamiliar with that catastrophe,
but like the flood down here in2016, it was just horrible, just
devastating.
(05:23):
Thousands of homes justcompletely flooded and ruined.
So it was a boom in theconstruction industry there,
obviously, with painters androofers and sheetrock draw
wallers.
So it was just a huge boomthere in 2016.
I myself, personally, I justprinted out little business
cards that said Matthew Johnson,225-363.
(05:43):
I'm not going to put my phonenumber out, but anyway.
But just went out and handedthose cards out and I myself I
painted like eight houses duringthat time.
So my introduction to thepainting industry was very
hands-on, very school of hardknocks, and that's not even what
I wanted to do, like I reallydidn't know what I wanted to do.
(06:03):
I thought I really didn't knowwhat I wanted to do.
I thought I was going to gointo like communications, maybe
like broadcasting or somethinglike that.
You know I got the hair to doit, you know.
So you know, but the smile, youknow the smile and the hair to
do that.
But I thought I was going to gointo something like that.
I went to college for onesemester, worked the normal job
(06:25):
for four months at Hobby Lobbyit was literally the worst four
months of my life.
So worked a regular job, wentto college for a whole semester
and said screw all that notdoing that, and so I decided to
start my painting businessbecause I figured that was the
only thing I was good at at thattime.
So you know, maybe I'll just dothis little painting business
(06:47):
thing for a little while andthen move on to the next thing.
So that was when I was 19 andI'll be 27 at the end of this
year.
So seven years later, here weare.
So, yeah.
So from there, 2020 is where Ireally like formed the LLC,
(07:09):
started hiring people, reallystarted to go hard it wasn't
just me anymore.
Like I started hiring people,getting crews started to you
know, got a marketing guy,started to put some things
together and like I kind of raninto different people like
bookkeeping for painters, appcAcademy for Professional
Painting Contractors, paintingBusiness Pro with Eric Barstow.
(07:30):
Eventually, I got hooked upwith Brian Diamond I don't know
if you know Brian Diamond withContractor Life Academy, but got
hooked up with him about in2023.
Um, but got hooked up with himabout in 2023.
Um, so that those are like theprograms and like the different
um communities that I came intouch with Um and so those were
(07:53):
all helpful.
Um, those those differentthings there, um.
But essentially 2020, we didabout 200,000 in sales, which I
thought was crazy.
Like I just thought that waslike, oh my God, this is
unbelievable, did about andthat's our first year and that
was 2020, that was COVID and Itechnically didn't get
completely like full-fledgedstarted until March.
(08:15):
So we technically did 200K inlike nine months.
So it wasn't.
It's not not terrible.
I mean, dude, I'm 21 years old,20 years old at the time.
It was kind of crazy.
So yeah, 2021, having abusiness, starting a business
like that.
2021, we did $800,000 in sales.
(08:39):
And then 2022, we did a million.
2023, we dipped a little bit.
We did right under a million, Ithink, because I got sick.
I was literally sick for liketwo months, like I had mono was
hospitalized for like a week.
It was like it was terrible,terrible, terrible time,
terrible time in the business, alot of.
(09:00):
I could tell you a whole storywith that.
But then, 2024, I started toreally assemble our team.
So I have a operations managerover production, a project
manager, a marketing coordinator, which is a sales rep.
Our marketing coordinatorstarted to build the sales team
and now I have a clientexperience specialist which is
(09:21):
our lead handler.
So, 2024, we did 1.2, 1.1.
And then this year we're ontrack to do 1.5, 1.8 this year
as right now, just because wehad a really weird month in
April where it was just abysmalwith sales and we were
transitioning through somedifferent hires so I was
(09:43):
switching some things up.
But yeah, our trajectory, wewere kind of transitioning
through some different hires, soI was kind of switching some
things up, um, but yeah, ourtrajectory, we were at a run
rate of like two million forthis year.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Nice, that's awesome.
That's a pretty incrediblejourney, and so it sounds like
you're starting to get thingsdialed in for as far as those
key positions.
So you said you had a right.
Now you have a project manager.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Ops manager, salesperson and then a lead
handler.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
Okay, and the lead handler is basically what type
of outbound are you doing?
Outbound marketing?
Or like door-to-door, orFacebook ads, like?
What type of?
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Yeah, so I'll work with Ricky at Homeowner
Marketers.
Work with him.
He does all of our Facebook adsand our Google SEO.
So, like our majority of ourleads other than our brand
ambassador program and like ourreferral program, majority of
our leads come from Google andFacebook.
(10:50):
Right now we don't we reallyhaven't diversified our
marketing channels yet.
We're just really trying todial in the team right now and
just financials and the team,and then we'll start to
diversify a little bit.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Gotcha.
So your lead handler's doingthe speed to lead for those
Facebook and just making surethat the inbound calls are
getting answered, and then yourops is managing the crews and
then salespersons closing thedeals, right, yeah, okay,
awesome.
So you have a pretty goodsounds like you have a pretty
good team set up, you know, andyou're on track to do 1.8
(11:26):
million this year, which isamazing, yeah, so tell me about
how you went from, you know,basically just painting houses
on your own, just by yourself,to building what sounds like a
pretty great team and you'realmost on the verge of doing
(11:48):
multiple millions.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Yeah, that transition was pretty difficult.
If I'm going to be completelytransparent and honest, there
was a lot of hiccups, a lot oflearning curve.
Um, if I could go back, I'llsay it like this If I could go
back, I would have invested moremoney in things that really
made a difference in thebusiness.
(12:11):
Um, like, maybe taken not justthe Painting Business Pro basic
course, but like get somecoaching, really get things set
up, maybe like BreakthroughAcademy, or find somebody like
Brian Diamond a lot sooner andget that coaching, that business
coaching.
If I could go back, if I couldgo back, I would have invested
(12:32):
money and time into stuff thatreally made a difference, rather
than stuff that I thought, oh,I'm going to try this little
marketing thing, oh, I'm goingto get the vehicle wrap, oh, I'm
going to go do this.
Or oh, I'm going to try thisand oh, I'm going to All that
stuff.
Really, they weretime-consuming activities but
they weren't revenue-generatingactivities.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Yeah, no, I think that's a I'm sorry, go ahead.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
No, and that's where the transition finally started
to happen.
In the last year or two iswhere I started to let go and
put the right people in place.
Sometimes you have to take riskin business.
You have to take that risk oflike okay, I don't have to pay
anybody if I just do this taskmyself, but you're eating all
(13:17):
your time up.
You're never going to build thebusiness or be able to work on
the business and create systemsand processes and documentation
in the business.
Something as simple as an SOPfor onboarding a new salesperson
, even if it's just a Google Doc, even if it's just something as
simple as that.
Like you don't even havesomething like that in place, oh
, I'll just train them and showthem around and show them the
(13:39):
thing and let them shadow me,and that's not a documented
process.
I mean, that's just somethingas simple as that.
That like you don't know thator think that way your first
year in business, you're justtrying to think you're just
shooting from the hip, justslinging jobs and trying to get
money and win jobs and you'redesperate, you know.
(14:00):
So it's just a hard transitionand I think people underestimate
how long that takes sometimes,and maybe it took way too long
for me.
Maybe I really was a dummy andjust couldn't figure things out.
But that stuff, those stepstake way longer than people make
it seem.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Yeah, and I loved what you said about you wish you
did coaching sooner, becausebefore you really had someone to
kind of run through things withyou that had been there before
and done the same things thatyou're trying to do.
Before that you were doing kindof whatever the shiny new
(14:41):
object was, you know, oh, thisis a, this is a hack that I can
implement into my business andthat that should, and you're
just like 100 shiny objects andjust getting your attention
diverted, it sounded like.
But you didn't have somebody tokind of guide you through like,
hey, here, here's where youreally need to put your focus
and not worry about all theseyou know shiny objects.
(15:01):
You know, start with this focuson this, finish that and then
move to this thing.
So I think it sounds like onceyou got that going, that kind of
accelerated your learning butalso the growth of your business
.
Is that fair to say?
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Yeah for sure, that was huge.
Just trying to transition fromthat and unfortunately, the only
way to solve that problem thatlack of experience and
understanding.
There's a gap.
There's a knowledge gap from aguy that's a year one and a guy
(15:39):
that's a year 15.
There's a huge knowledge gapthere.
The only way you can bridgethat gap is a paywall of hey,
let me pay for your time so youcan give me your expertise and
guidance.
And it's worth that investmentbecause think about it, even if
it's $5,000 a month, if that$5,000 a month can create
(16:02):
$150,000 worth of revenue.
I mean, come on, I mean that'spretty simple math there.
But guys are afraid to do thatbecause they're saying, oh,
that's eating into my margin,pay yourself a little bit less
and you're going to be able topay yourself a lot more, a lot
sooner in the big picture.
In the big picture there, guysare afraid to spend that money.
(16:25):
They're afraid to invest thatbecause they feel I'll just
figure that out.
No, you're not.
You think you can, even ifyou've got a degree.
I have, you've.
I have five years of salesexperience at the dealership and
I've got this.
And I've got this experienceand I've been a painter for 30
years.
A painter and a business ownerare two different things.
I got news for you.
(16:45):
It's just so, it's something.
If I had to go back to my20-year-old self, I would say,
hey, that $10,000 that you havesaved up, hire a coach, go to
Breakthrough Academy, go findsomebody like Brian Diamond.
Hey, go, blah, blah, blah, gofind a really good yada, yada,
(17:09):
yada and learn these things andset the business up right and
figure it out a lot quicker, alot sooner.
And the other piece of advicethat I would tell people too is
be okay with making harddecisions and quick decisions.
Be okay and learn to be okaywith making very hard decisions
(17:34):
and having hard conversations.
Be okay with making very harddecisions and having hard
conversations.
I can't tell you how many timesI was slow to fire somebody, or
I was slow to get rid ofsomebody, or I was slow to make
a change in the business, or Iwas slow to bite the bullet on
something, or I was slow to havethat hard conversation with
(17:55):
somebody.
You can't be afraid.
You can't be afraid of thatbeing in business.
You're in a high-risk,high-reward arena where you're
going to have some hardconversations and they're not
going to be fun.
You're going to have some harddecisions to make and you got to
make them fast, or you're goingto pay in the nose for it.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Yeah, yeah, that's a great point.
I mean, as the business owneryou're really that is your job
you should be making those,identifying what are the hard
decisions and making them asquickly as possible, because
those are usually, you know, noone else in your organization is
going to make them for you,they're not going to have those
hard conversations and they'renot going to make those hard
decisions.
Hard conversations, or andthey're not, they're not gonna
make those hard decisions.
(18:36):
So the and as you grow, theyusually get harder and harder.
It doesn't get easier.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Yeah, Because you realize that it's going to add a
lot to your plate and you knowthat it's going to be difficult
and it's.
It's going to be hard andthere's going to be that
transition period of like, okay,I've got to replace this person
, or I've got to replace thisthing, or I've got to pay for
this thing.
But what opportunity cost?
What is it costing you inopportunities?
What's it costing If you've gota sales guy that you're giving
(19:09):
him 10, 15 appointments a weekbut he's converting two of them?
What's it costing?
You might as well go run theappointments yourself while
you're looking for a new personthat will actually go convert
40% of those jobs rather thantwo of them.
You know, like what are youcosting yourself?
(19:29):
Like you might as well go runthem.
Why are you going to paysomebody else?
Pay yourself that commission Ifthey're not going to close.
Get rid of them.
Start looking for a new personand while you're looking for a
new person and you're puttingtogether a better system and a
better training and a betteronboarding for the new person or
the new hire, go sell some jobs.
Like guys get stuck in theirhead like, oh, I can't go back,
(19:51):
Like I can't go back.
Sometimes you have to.
Like, oh, I can't go back.
Like I can't go back.
Sometimes you have to.
Sometimes you've got to go backto the drawing board and retool
and restructure because maybeyou, as the business owner, you
(20:13):
haven't evolved to a point foryour team to evolve to a point
that you need them to be at.
So you're still here and youwant them here, but you've got
to go up here so that they canthen be here where you needed
them to be.
Yeah, You've got to evolveyourself.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
Yep, yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
And one of the things youmentioned earlier was you've got
to learn to let go and you'vegot to put the people in the
right place.
You know, you got to learn tolet go and you got to put the
people in the right place, andit sounds like you've had to
have a lot of learning in this,this realm, and you've had to
have those hard conversations.
But could you just talk alittle bit more about letting go
(20:45):
, putting people in the rightplace?
What does that look like foryou and your company?
Speaker 2 (20:50):
So, um, we kind of have a mindset that I adopted
from Brian Diamond at CLAContractor Life Academy.
Working with Brian these lastfew years, I've actually got
like a culture kind ofestablished now Our core values.
I've got five core values thatwe've established and we try to
(21:11):
live by at Swift.
Basically, one of the phrasesthat we say is build, don't
break and I stole that frombrian, but it's build, don't
break.
Um, often we can look at, wecan look at conversations, hard
conversations, and all we'redoing is breaking.
It's just negative.
(21:33):
But there's a way that you couldgo about it and say, hey, I, I
really like what you've beendoing, you've really put in a
lot of hard work.
But here's what I'm seeingMaybe we could clean some things
up.
Blah, blah, blah, blah.
And I know that's stupid,simple, but you really don't
think about it in the heat ofthe moment when you're upset, or
you see they didn't send aproposal out, or you see that
(21:55):
they haven't been leaving theirnotes in the CRM, or you see
that they haven't been followingprotocol, or you fill in the
blank, and so in the heat ofthose moments, you have to
remember and put yourself hey,this is a crucial conversation.
And I need to remember build,don't break.
Is what I'm about to say goingto build them up or is this just
(22:18):
going to break them down?
Is this going to create theright atmosphere and culture
moving forward?
And so those crucialconversations and there's a book
Crucial Conversations.
You're probably familiar withit.
I'd say any CEO or any businessowner should read that, because
when you start having a teamand you start putting together a
(22:39):
team and you start having teammeetings and you're in the
office and you've got a staffand you're handling departments
sales to production, productionback to sales so all these
departments, you've got to makethese transitions and these
channels smooth and connectedand they all have the same
vision and goal in mind, butthey need to all be on the same
(23:03):
page.
And so that's difficult whenyou're not coming to the
conversation the right way, andoften you have to be willing to
put people in their place, butyou can't do it in a harsh way.
You can't do it.
You're literally going to breakand destroy rather than build
up if you're not careful.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
So for core values.
So is one of your core valuesbuild, don't break.
Is that one of them?
Speaker 2 (23:34):
That's basically one of the phrases or statements we
use.
Ours are ownership, integrity,excellence, connection and
communication okay, and so whatdo you?
Speaker 1 (23:51):
because when I first learned about core values years
ago, I didn't quite understandwhat the purpose of them.
I was like, did you just put abunch of fancy words on a piece
of paper and yeah, so those are.
So what?
What are core values actuallydoing for your, your company and
and how does actually impactwhat you guys do on a day-to-day
(24:13):
basis?
Speaker 2 (24:14):
So, basically, what you have to do is and it's hard
to do it with people thatalready work for you because
they're going to say what typeof bull crap are you on right
now, Like, what's all this newstuff about?
Build, don't break, no problems, only solutions.
Communication is everything.
Excellence in the details.
(24:35):
Because on those five words,the five pillars, I have like a
phrase.
Like there's a phrase that goeswith that Excuses, ownership
over excuses, so ownership likethat, but ownership over excuses
.
So it's different things.
It's hard to do it with peoplethat already work for you when
(24:58):
you try to make that transitionand you say, hey guys, because
what I did was I just insertedit.
I just said, hey guys, justwanted to share.
We already have the heart ofthese things at Swift, we
already kind of have the heartof this, but I really want to
(25:18):
implement it and make it a partof how we do things here, how we
communicate with each other,how we communicate with our
clients, how we operate witheach other, how we treat each
other.
I think this is reallyimportant for us because I think
this will help establish somethings that will help us grow
and build something positivetogether, because I never want
to build an environment where wecan't grow and we can't talk to
(25:40):
each other, where we can'tcommunicate with each other,
where we can't be honest witheach other and open with each
other.
I'm going to keep you guysaccountable to these core values
, but you know what I need y'allto do for me.
I need y'all to be willing tokeep me accountable too.
And, of course, build don'tbreak, because I am the boss,
but build, don't break.
(26:01):
And so whenever we come to theconversation that way I've
already seen the transition mysales guy's coming to me in a
different way.
He's not coming to me fussingand complaining and being
negative.
He's coming to the conversationknowing that I'm going to come
to the conversation in apositive way, because it
basically lets everybody take abreath and not have so much
(26:24):
tension or realize that thingsare going to be handled a
certain way.
They're not going to be handledWait, why did you not do that
man?
Come on, man.
Way.
They're not going to be handled.
Wait, why did you not do thatman?
Come on, man.
That's not bill, don't break,that's right, you know.
And then if I don't perform,they could say well, boss, you
know.
Hey, you know ownership overexcuses.
No problems, only solutions.
(26:44):
You know, you're right, you'reright, you're right, so it's so.
It's basically really justcoming forth with it.
Now.
It's easier with new hires.
You just show them hey, here's,you know.
During the onboarding processyou're like, hey, you know,
here's some of our core valuesand this is how we weave them
into our communication, becauseevery sop that I create, uh,
(27:06):
chat, gpt is my best friend, uh,but every sop that I create in
the instructions, chat alreadyknows our core values.
It knows this is how we buildthese things out With this in
mind.
Build this out and what thislooks like.
Our meeting agendas, ourcadences, our messaging, our
(27:31):
templates, our template text,our emails, our debriefs
everything has those fivepillars in mind.
And so, whether you'retransitioning and making a hard
transition with the team thatyou already have, or you're
doing it with new hires, whichit's easier to do with new hires
(27:53):
you just got to implement it,you just got to put it in and
say, hey, this is it, this iswhat we do now.
This is hey, I was on some bullcrap before and I was trying to
figure it out myself, but Ihope you guys are willing to
come along with me on this newjourney of elevating and
evolving so that the businessand the entity can grow.
(28:14):
If the entity and the businesscan grow, the only way it can do
that is if the head honchodecides to elevate and grow.
Because the business isn'tgoing to do it by itself, I've
got to uplift it along with theteam.
So I've got to bring you guysup to my level, for instance, my
operations manager andproduction manager.
They were like Matthew, wedon't know what you're doing.
(28:37):
Like this was just like twoweeks ago.
We don't know what you're doing.
Like what's?
You're kind of leaving us inthe dust here.
You're kind of leaving us inthe dark here.
I'm like what's going on?
You're making all these changesand you're doing all these
things, but I don't know whatthe heck's going on.
Like what are you?
Like what are we doing?
Like what's the plan?
What's the vision?
Like what's going on?
Like you gotta let us help you,we gotta key us in on this
(28:59):
stuff.
Like we don't know orunderstand.
We don't understand.
We want to understand.
Now.
Good team members and good hires, people that you may, if they
care, they want to understand,they want to have clarity on oh,
this is why we're doing that,because us, as business owners,
like, oh, we're just doing itand that's how we're going to do
(29:19):
it.
No, you got to give anunderstanding.
It's almost like children, likeyou got to give your children a
why, so they understand whyit's important and why it
matters, why it matters, why itmakes an impact, why it matters,
why it makes an impact, why itmakes a difference.
Because they're just going tosee your staff is just going to
think of it as stupid.
They're going to this is stupid, like we're doing just fine,
(29:39):
we're doing the thing.
We're doing business already.
What's all this bull crap?
What's all this mess?
This is just a bunch of hoopla.
This is what's.
But it means something.
It really does make adifference.
Because, as a young businessowner, I'm seeing all these guys
talking about mindset, mindset,this, and I just rolled my eyes
at it.
A lot Like what you did withthe core value thing.
(30:01):
I don't get it.
I mean I don't know, but whenyou're on the flip side of it
and you're on the other side ofit, you're like, dang, why
didn't I have that before?
I should have had this.
I should have had these thingsestablished a long time ago and
that's where the biggercompanies and the companies that
grow and build a good team,they have that stuff and it
seems lame, it seems like abunch of bull.
(30:23):
You know what?
It seems like a bunch of bull,crap and a bunch of you know,
but it's really important, likeit really does make an impact.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
It really does make a difference not just in your
team, but in yourself.
Yeah, one of the things.
So your core values are almostlike your brand board.
you know those brand boardswhere it has like all your
colors for your logo and yourwebsite and all that stuff.
Your core values are basicallylike it sounds like your brand
board for your processes andyour website and all that stuff.
Your core values are basicallylike it sounds like your brand
board for your processes andyour, the culture of your team.
It's kind of like here are theingredients for how we're going
(31:02):
to do operations and that'sgoing to basically communicate
the brand.
The community communicate thebrand similar to how your your
brand board communicates thelike how your brand looks.
The core values communicate howyour brand actually comes
across in the actions, thebehaviors of the organization
(31:22):
and people.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Yeah, and it's.
It's, I would say, and not justbecause I'm saying all this.
Everything that I'm telling you, I've learned from experience,
but also learned from a coachand Brian.
Um, these everything that I'mtelling you I've learned from
experience, but also learnedfrom a coach, from Brian.
These are things that I havelearned and I have paid for this
knowledge.
I've paid for this knowledgeand you can either pay for it
(31:44):
with your time or you can payfor it with your money.
The knowledge, because there isa knowledge gap.
And, daniel, you've built a verysuccessful business and have a
full-fledged team.
Even from the time that I'vewatched you and from the time
I've observed, like it was justyou and maybe some vas or
something you know five, sixyears ago, but like, oh my god,
(32:05):
like you've boomed, you've grownand exploded where it's.
Like you're just nationallyrecognized and partnered up with
all these big guys and thesejuggernauts in the painting
industry.
But you, you know just as wellas me, like I know you have a
coach, I know you have somementor, some coach or some
program that you're taking to toget you to that point.
(32:25):
You didn't just do that on yourown.
No offense, I mean not thatyou're not capable, but you
wouldn't have done it in thisshort of time.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Right, absolutely.
Yeah, having a coach isindispensable.
I mean, if you look at my P&L,my training and education line
item, it's just ridiculous Spenta lot of money on it, but it
comes back, like you mentionedearlier, comes back as a return
on investment many times over.
So, yeah, I'm right there withyou.
(32:52):
One of the other things youmentioned was when you're
talking to your team, you alwayssay, like, what the why behind
it.
And it reminded me of in themilitary whenever you had to
write an order to tell soldiersto do something, or even just a
verbal order that you give them.
You always have to give themthe task and intent.
(33:14):
So two things you always haveto communicate is the task of
what you want them to do andalso the intent.
And the intent is basically thewhy.
What are you trying toaccomplish?
So if you just tell somebody,hey, go move those sticks from
point A to point B, they mightdo it, but then if they don't
(33:36):
understand the intent behind whyyou told them to move the
sticks, it might get lost whensomething changes.
So providing that task andintent really helps people to
understand.
Like, okay, well, if somethingyou know, he wants me to move
these sticks over here becausewe're trying to build a house,
and so we're.
We're putting wood in this area, and so we, you know.
(33:59):
But if the location of the homechanges, maybe I should move it
over there instead of over hereso well, it gives context,
gives context and clarity.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
Yeah, yeah, I like that task, task and intent.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
Yes, and and I think there was, I can't remember is
there was this company, I can'tremember who, which company it
was, but basically you alwayshad to put the why of.
Whenever you told somebody todo something else, you had to
put the why behind it, otherwiseit was a fireable offense.
(34:35):
You literally could get firedif you did not put the why
behind a task that you askedsomebody to do something.
So they took it prettyseriously.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
Well, yeah, I think as business owners, we can get
caught up in our own ways andmaybe a little bit prideful or
feel like it's too much energyto explain, like how much more,
a little bit more time investedin a conversation and giving
instructions or giving clarityor giving a clear path on what
(35:07):
you want done.
You've got to give clarity tothat, because it's like.
This is why Because I literallysaw my operations manager and
my production manager as theywere sitting on my left side and
on my right side here.
I saw the light bulbs go off onboth of them really around the
same time where the light bulbwent off and I could see the
(35:29):
gears going in their head oflike oh okay, because all I did
in that conversation.
They're like well, we're nottrying to come down on you, boss
, and we're not trying to breakyou, we're trying to.
I said no, no, no, no.
I said exactly what I've beenimplementing and trying to
change and shift in the business.
You guys just exemplified itand you didn't even realize you
(35:50):
were doing it and so I'veaccomplished my goal.
And they're like what?
And I was like no, I wantedy'all, I want the reason why we
have these meetings and thesecadences, and the reason why
I've been speaking to y'all inthis way is so that you guys
would speak to me the same wayand we would communicate the
same way.
(36:11):
So what y'all just did was nota problem and I didn't need.
I hope y'all realize y'alldon't need to be afraid or
scared or worried to have thattype of conversation with me.
We need to have that kind ofconversation and I said and I
apologize that you guys feltlike you couldn't come to me
before.
Yeah, and so it's like, andthat right there, as the owner,
(36:34):
I was taking ownership andimplementing one of the core
values, just taking full-fledgedownership yes, no, that's
awesome.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
Um, it sounds like you you're really building in
culture, like intentionallybuilding culture, because
culture is going to be there,regardless whether you are
intentionally building it.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
Well, that's the scary thing is you could
accidentally be building aculture that sucks.
It's just terrible.
Everybody's got a stinkyattitude, or everybody's afraid
to talk to you, or everybody'safraid to bring something to you
or tell you something, and likethey start cutting corners and
(37:19):
skipping steps and not doingthings the right way, because
they're afraid, because they'reworried, or they don't
understand, or they don't haveclarity, or they don't even know
what the heck they're doing orhow they're supposed to be doing
it.
Because there's no why has beengiven the?
Why hasn't been given theunderstanding?
Or how to do things or how toapproach things has not been
given?
The why has it been given theunderstanding?
Uh, or how to do things or howto approach things has not been
given.
And whose job is that?
(37:40):
It's not their job, it's yours,like it's your company.
You've got to build the cultureintentionally or you're going
to build somethingunintentionally that you have to
fix or that you've got to dealwith.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
Yep, yeah, it's.
It is a it's kind of a netculture, is like an abstract
thing, but it definitely hasvery concrete impacts on your
business.
So it's it's great to hear thatyou've really crafted that,
that culture in your businessand it sounds like it's working
because you've, you know, nearlydoubled the business you know
in the last couple of years.
And it sounds like it's workingbecause you've, you know,
nearly doubled the business youknow in the last couple years.
It sounds like, just from, youknow, getting that, getting that
(38:21):
coaching, so accelerating yourlearning and implementing uh to
grow your business very quickly.
So kudos to you for that.
Thank you, um cool, you've beensuper gracious with your time.
Do you have any ask of theaudience or any final thoughts
that you'd like to leave withthe audience, who you know,
(38:44):
other painting business ownerswho are trying to grow their
business to the next level?
Any final thoughts for them?
Speaker 2 (38:50):
Yeah, I would be very careful on adopting just one
ideology, because and what Imean by that is this there's a
lot of programs out there,there's a lot of coaches out
there, there's a lot ofdifferent paths and structures
and different things out there.
Either stick to one or take apiece of each one and create
(39:14):
your own, because what willhappen is you'll be trying to
implement this person's system,this person's system, this
person's system, and trying to.
You've either got to take justa piece like hey, appc, their
production stuff is amazing.
I'm going to take that.
Hey, brian sells stuff Amazing.
I'm going to take that.
Hey, brian sells stuff Amazing.
I'm going to take that.
(39:35):
Hey, painting Business Progetting started.
They're starting Building WorthFoundation that's great.
Their commercial stuff that'sgreat.
If I had to give people advice,either pick one and stick with
it, or, if you have the means todo it, take each one, go to
this camp, go to this camp, goto this community, learn this
(39:57):
and go step by step to fix eachproblem in your business, one by
one, because either most peoplethis is their livelihood or
they're either about to getstarted or they already started,
and so you can only go task bytask.
You can only go one problem ata time.
Because what I learned was,yeah, you can kind of fix
(40:20):
different departments and dodifferent things, but it's
literally focus on this task,get it done.
Hey, my sales sucks.
Let me focus on sales.
Let me hire a coach.
Let me go to seventh level withJeremy Miner.
Whatever, whatever salesideology you want to go with,
(40:42):
pick one and one that you knowworks and go with that, because
again, you can get so confusedand so overwhelmed with all the
different programs and all thedifferent systems and all the
different.
Either pick one and stick withit and do that system and you
can make it your own or takebits and pieces from everybody.
(41:02):
Um, because it's just reallydifficult when you're trying to
adopt a whole system fromsomebody and it's just you got
to make it your own.
Period Number one.
But that would be my advice,and I know that might be a
little bit confusing, but I hopethere's some clarity with that.
(41:25):
I hope there's some somethingsomebody can glean from that,
because that's something I'vehad to learn as well.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
Yeah, no, I mean, I think it makes sense, Because
one of the things that I likeabout that is you know, there's
so much information out there,but focus is the key in focusing
on the right things,specifically Because you can get
distracted.
But if you figuring out whatthe main bottleneck in your
(41:55):
business is like, if it's sale,sales or whatever, focus on the
sales process, you know, figureout either, like you said, go
find somebody that's really goodat sales, that that can teach
you a system, because you don't,you don't have to create
anything running a paintingbusiness, like everything's out
there to learn, and so there'sno, you don't.
(42:20):
You don't need to innovate toomuch on you know.
Be, you can be creative on theway you put things together, but
not necessarily like innovating.
You know you don't have to.
You could, but becauseeverybody's pretty much figured
these things out already.
So if you're, if your sales isyour issue, go out and find,
like you said, a salesperson ora sales system that works and
implement that and focus on thatuntil it's fixed and then find
(42:41):
the next bottleneck, becausethere's going to always be
another one after that.
But really try to identify whatis the most important thing to
focus on, find the resources tofix it and then focus on it
until it's fixed and then moveon to the next thing.
So I think that makes a lot ofsense to me.
Cool, well, I really appreciateyour time.
I feel like we could have, youknow, another three hour
(43:01):
conversation, but I want to berespectful of your time.
Matthew, you know I reallyappreciate your time For all our
listeners.
With that, we will see you nextweek.
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