April 24, 2024 • 36 mins
Unlock the marketing mysteries behind a lucrative painting business with the guidance of Aaron Hockel from AltaVista Strategic Partners. My conversation with Aaron is a treasure trove of marketing savvy—from the transformative power of AI in cultivating Google reviews to the unexpected impact TikTok could have on your business. We dive into the nitty-gritty of digital advertising's evolution and how you can remain at the forefront, with Aaron generously sharing concrete strategies for crafting genuine customer feedback and navigating the online marketing landscape.
Reinvigorating relationships with past customers isn't just good practice—it's a goldmine. In this episode, I reveal the surprising benefits of reactivation campaigns, demonstrating how even a minimal uptick in engagement from your email list can lead to new estimates and work orders. We discuss the art of leveraging your existing clientele to upsell services, and how sustaining a steady workflow through the off-season can be critical for maintaining a talented and loyal team. It's about more than just keeping the lights on; it's about building a brand that professionals want to be associated with.
Transparency isn't just a buzzword; it's the cornerstone of successful marketing. We shed light on the importance of clear, detailed reporting from marketing companies and how utilizing tools like UTM tracking can demystify the customer journey. Aaron and I swap stories that illustrate the significance of aligning traffic with conversions, ensuring that every marketing dollar is pulling its weight. And for those eager to join the conversation, I invite you to connect with AltaVista Strategic Partners or dive into the 'Grow your Painting Business' Facebook group, where the collective wisdom of fellow entrepreneurs awaits.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the profitable painter podcast.
The mission of this podcast issimple To help you navigate the
financial and tax aspects ofstarting, running and scaling a
professional painting business,from the brushes and ladders to
the spreadsheets and balancesheets.
We've got you covered.
But before we dive in, a quickword of caution.
While we strive to provideaccurate and up-to-date
financial and tax information,nothing you hear on this podcast
(00:22):
should be considered asfinancial advice specifically
for you or your business.
We're here to share generalknowledge and experiences, not
to replace the tailored adviceyou get from a professional
financial advisor or taxconsultant.
We strongly recommend youseeking individualized advice
before making any significantfinancial decision.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
This is Daniel, the founder of Bookkeeping for
Painters, and today I'm herewith Aaron Huckle.
Aaron Huckle is a contractormarketing expert and is a
partner and vice president ofAltaVista Strategic Partners.
For over a decade, aaron andAltaVista team have worked with
commercial and residentialpainting contractors to grow and
scale their repaint businessusing targeted marketing and
(01:03):
digital advertising campaigns.
He has spoke at severalconferences, to include the 2023
CPIA Leadership Conference.
How's it going, aaron?
Welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
It's going well, Daniel.
Thanks for having me on today.
I'm looking forward to chattingwith you guys.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Absolutely Glad to have you excited to talk, to dig
into things Before we get intothe meat and potatoes.
I'm just curious about yourbackground.
You've had over a decade ofexperience with working with
contractors.
What initially drew you to thecontractor marketing space?
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Yeah, great question.
The quick origin story ofAltaVista.
We were co-founded in 2011,actually by two former
electricians.
The business originally gotstarted out as doing consulting
and marketing and sales trainingand all different kinds of
services focused on the tradesright.
So roofers, painters, plumbers,etc.
(02:00):
They actually approached me inthe fall of 2011.
I was working as a inrecruiting and staffing at that
time and they approached meabout doing sales for them and
helping them with sales to meetnew people, so really kind of
just got involved then.
It was a startup and we've beenreally just heavily focused on
(02:21):
working with roofers, painters,etc.
For the last 13 years now andmy experience has really been
very hands-on, working for a lotof people.
Marketing changes so quicklythat really what you knew even
two years ago is different today.
But that's kind of what it waskind of happening, just happened
, right.
No real intentional backgroundthere for me, but been doing it
(02:45):
a long time.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Yeah, and you're.
From what I've seen I'm not amarketing expert, but just
looking from the outside in justthe amount of changes that
happen in the marketing space.
It's ridiculous.
I was talking to somebody theother day.
They're like oh yeah, googleads, they're pretty much
worthless now.
You got to do the local serviceads now, like that's a recent
(03:11):
change apparently, but it seemslike every couple of months.
Facebook ads are different nowand it's just crazy to keep up
with the changes.
What are some recent changesthat you've seen.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Yeah, we see changes all the time.
It's funny you mentioned thelocal service ads and people
kind of saying, oh, we got toget on those now and ditch the
regular search ads.
So I remember when the localservice ads were beta testing
they were rolling out in randomUS cities and that was maybe
four or five years ago.
So even the idea of like oh, butmaybe they you know they open
(03:46):
up a new category or they add anew, this or Google puts more
emphasis on them, so it could besomething old that's still kind
of new.
The changes that we're seeingmost recently.
Facebook's always changing.
We're kind of closely keeping alittle eye on what's going to
happen with TikTok.
We don't do a ton of TikTokmarketing now, but there are
(04:07):
plenty of people who have builtreally large audiences on there
and if that goes away, reallywhere's that attention going to
shift?
People are still going toengage and be looking for
content and different things, sodoes that shift some eyes back
to Facebook and Instagram andmaybe create another push there?
You know there's Google'salgorithm always changing.
(04:29):
Interesting one on that frontand we'll probably talk more
about this later is on thereview side.
Google is now putting moreemphasis on reviews than ever
before.
That's something we've kind ofpicked up right, and they can
use AI now to more accuratelyread and understand reviews and
better use that information, andso what we're looking at is
(04:49):
well, how are reviews going totruly start to impact people
when they're searching right,because we can use that first
person authentic experiencecontent.
How does that interact Right.
So things are always changing.
Those are a couple of things onthe horizon we're keeping our
eye on, but I'm sure somethingnew will be right around the
corner as well.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
And I think for reviews.
I've heard some folks are, Iguess, to exploit.
What you just said is thatthey're kind of giving clients
almost like a template to use,like hey, here's kind of what
happened with your project andhere's some pictures of before
and after of your project.
Would you mind doing a Googlereview and kind of providing
(05:31):
them almost like the answersthat they can basically copy and
paste it into the Google reviewso that they're getting more
robust Google reviews?
Speaker 3 (05:40):
That definitely happens.
That definitely matters.
If you do that every time andeveryone looks very templated.
Just be always cautioned aboutsome red flags, right, like oh,
all these reviews look the same,they all have two before
pictures, two after pictures.
What is happening?
Don't know that.
That's anything a real warningsign.
But that depth of review withthe picture, with the comment
(06:03):
right, having employees by name,those are all really key things
that do make a difference.
There are even softwares nowthat are really kind of doing
more of that outreach to thatdepth right For the review,
asking for the review andproviding all that sort of stuff
can be done.
That's definitely, definitely abig one.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Okay, cool.
Well, what would you say for?
Because it seems like themarketing strategy for a
business that is just startingout is definitely way different
than a marketing strategy of somuch around a while.
Do you have any recommendationsfor someone who's just getting
started?
They're doing under one millionin revenue.
(06:46):
What should they really focuson, Because there's so much out
there and everything's changingLike?
Are there some things that theyshould really just dial in on
initially?
Speaker 3 (06:57):
Yeah, so that's a great question, right.
And we've worked withbusinesses in the residential
home services space and thecommercial space.
We've worked with people thathave we've helped get from a
million dollars in sales to amillion dollars in bulk, right.
So we've seen the journey.
We understand it at variousphases.
In what matters, there arefoundational principles that are
(07:18):
going to be right, that youneed to do at one million or 10
million or 100 million, quitehonestly, right.
The first one.
I'll give some key pieces ofadvice here to the person who's
under a million One be veryfocused on, like, who is your
customer, what do you do forthem, what does that look like?
(07:39):
And don't try to chase thatnext thing, meaning, if you're
really good at exteriors, yeah,certainly paint some interiors
in the wintertime, but don't gochasing dexthaining or cabinet
painting, right, kind of belaser focused and understand
where you want to go, like, hey,our sales are 800,000.
(07:59):
We want to grow to 1.1 millionand then 1.5 million.
The roadmap to getting there isgoing to be excellent at what
you do, well, right.
And having that predefined goalOnce the goal is defined, and
kind of understanding who thecustomer is, what the services
are, where geography is reallyimportant, right?
(08:19):
I would say get yourself a greatmobile friendly landing page or
website.
It does not need to be a hugewebsite, it does not need to be
super complex.
Some really nice, well designed, even if it's just one page,
maybe two or three pages short,sweet right, that works really
well on a phone.
Start there, everyone's lookingon their phones, right?
(08:41):
Hey, daniel, who painted yourhouse?
The outside looks great.
Oh, it was Aaron's painting.
You should call.
How does that person find it?
Right?
They're going to Google Aaron'spainting.
It's going to pop up on theirphone and we're going to look
for some ways we want them to go, but if they click to the
website, it needs to look nice.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
So I think that would kind of be a first point of
light there Under a million.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
If we're saying, hey, we're a little constrained in
terms of what we have fromfinancial resources to invest in
things, right, oh, maybe wecan't afford a billboard or a TV
commercial or $10,000 a monthwhere the Facebook ads right,
look at some really simplethings.
The reviews are cruciallyimportant.
You can get business cards madewith a QR code.
(09:25):
You can make it a process tosend an email to every completed
job.
But really, really focus on thereviews.
Don't emphasize 100% Google,80%, 10%.
See if you can get that balanceof 20%.
Try and get a review on Yelp.
We know they're really tough.
(09:45):
Try to get one on BBB.
Try to sprinkle them into acouple other places.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Right, that would probably be something that you
can just do it from your email.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
You can just do it with a business card with a QR
code, right.
You have a sales guyincentivize them to get reviews,
right.
So that would be another bigpart of it.
Get a CRM, get something, getthat you can use to just track
the customer data.
If it's just first name, lastname, phone number, cell phone
(10:18):
number, email address, streetaddress, right, having that core
information as you build yourcompany and you build your plan
really going to be very, veryhelpful.
After a million, we wouldemphasize a lot of things that
are what are like affordableresources.
That's kind of where I'm goingwith this, right.
So Mailchimp's base version,let's just send 1,000 contacts,
(10:42):
one email a month.
There's no charge for that.
Doesn't have a lot of bells andwhistles, right, but it's free.
So if you're building that listof contacts, well, there's a
lot of power this time of yearin sending an email to 1,000
people you've talked with in thepast saying did you decide on
an estimate If you have quotefor your exterior, right, so
(11:03):
that one would kind of besomething.
But we're not even getting tosending it yet.
We're just saying have aprocess in place to build that
data that we can build off ofinto the future.
There should be some reallyforward, straight ahead things.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
All right.
So basically, get your niche.
You know, focus on one thing todo, well, whether that's
cabinets or exterior.
Yeah, number two you want tohave a basic, good looking
website that shows up on mobile.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
Well, yeah, mobile first always.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Yeah.
And then number three you wantto have a process and incentives
to get, for your team to getreviews on various platforms.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
You got it.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
And then number four we want to make sure that we
have just a basic CRM, so we'recollecting that customer data
and then setting you up forreactive reactivating your
customers periodically.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
You got it right.
I mean, I talked to people andthey've been in business for 10
years and they're like man, wereally haven't done a good job
getting emails.
And you're like startimmediately, right, I don't care
if you're just writing themdown on a piece of paper, right,
start getting them.
One of our biggest clients isactually in the fence industry
and they're in New England andthey're a very well known name.
(12:17):
Last fall we sent out emails to55,000 people they had
previously given an estimate tosaying, hey, we're having an end
of year sale, we'reguaranteeing installs of white
of these three fence styles byNovember 15th.
Act now, take 20% off materials.
Blah, blah, blah.
(12:38):
Right?
Well, that kept them very busyinto a time of year when their
really activity is declining,from people looking to make home
services purchases October,late September, october and
November, right.
So it sounds crazy because,well, that's a lot, right?
Yeah, it is a lot, but youdon't get to 55,000 if you don't
(12:59):
get the first 50, right?
So, trust me, that's the powerof that kind of that data
capture and having thatinformation on hand.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
So 55,000, that was sent out.
That offer was sent out viaemail.
Yep, okay, what was theresponse rate on that?
Speaker 3 (13:17):
They generated over a thousand leads.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Wow, so that's over 2% or 2% about.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
That's really good.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
They weren't all leads of like yes, I need to buy
a fence immediately.
Some of them were like oh yeah,thanks for the email.
We're actually thinking aboutsomething in the spring.
Or you know, hey, we don't needanother fence, but we'd like to
put in a pergola.
Or hey, can you fix this gate?
You know what I mean.
There were kind of things inthere that weren't all just pure
like yeah, give me an estimateto buy a new fence.
But a thousand people thatwanted a conversation, I'll put
(13:53):
it at that.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Yeah, even if it's 1% , that's still 500 plus
estimates there.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
Yeah, that was crazy.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
So Okay, and that's something like what I've seen.
Looking at numbers is whenyou're doing reactivations is
somewhere between 1% and 3% atthe high end, but 1% and 3%
reactivation.
So if you send out, you know,even if your list is only 1000,
(14:24):
and that's 10 estimates, youknow that you could potentially
get that 1% reactivation.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
So, and that's those three of them, and it was free
to put their names in Excel.
It was free to get the mailchimp up to 1000.
And it took you an hour towrite the email blast and send
it out.
Well, that's, you put three anhour into the marketing.
Right, I know there's timeinvested in other places, but
you spent a minimal amount oftime and effort and you got 10,
(14:53):
10 estimates and we'll say,hopefully, one or two layups in
there.
Right, it's, reactivations aregreat.
It's not always about, like,the time of year and this and
that.
Right, it's sort of that.
Well, we want to evolve andwe'll talk about that journey of
like.
We go from a million or 800,000to 1.5 and then beyond.
When you find a partner or youhire somebody who's the best
(15:18):
cabinet painter in the area,well, now you take your list and
you let them know about yourcabinet painting.
Then you take your list and youlet them find out about your
deck and fence staining.
Then you take your list and letthem know hey, it's the winter
time, we're doing in 10% off allyou know, interiors, whatever.
It is right.
You're also able to leverage itto create activity in times of
(15:42):
year when you might haveseasonal dips, right.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
Yep, yeah, that makes sense.
I know a lot of folks are doing, you know, reactivations like
in the in the winter, for likeinterior, when you can focus on
that and that often can be ahuge.
You know a lot of people, a lotof painting business, a lot of
painting businesses are hurtingin the winter.
(16:09):
But if you, if you regularlyreactivate, you know your
customers to do interior work,that can really help smooth
things out.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
Yeah, absolutely.
I'm also going to take it astep further beyond, like a
what's a not really a marketingthing.
But you know plenty ofbusinesses that have that
seasonal slow down into thewinter.
If you're subcontracting, well,subs are loyal to the hand that
feeds them, right?
So the person that's keepingthe subcontractors busy in the
slower time they're going tohave more incentive.
(16:39):
It's really hard to findquality employees W2, full time
painters how do you keep thembusy?
To keep them on your staff,Right?
Like there's other intrinsicvalue to the business of
generating interior paintingleads in the winter yeah, sales
and growth and revenue and allthose other things.
But there's the intrinsic valueof well, you're keeping the
(17:00):
subs fed, You're keeping yourguys employed and getting 40
hours a week and paid, Right,you know what I mean.
And that stuff does spreadaround, right?
Because, oh hey, Daniel'spainting is the guy.
Well, hey, I was only getting30 hours a week in December and
January.
Oh well, I was getting 45.
Well, now, all of a sudden, youhave a job application showing
(17:23):
up on your doorstep, right?
I'm just sharing with you.
These are other intrinsicbenefits, right?
That people sometimes don'talways think about.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Yeah, no, it's a good point for sure, Because you
often hear the complaint like Ican't find a good work.
Well, if you're getting thework and word gets around,
you'll have folks knocking atyour door to work for you.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
So that's a good point.
Yeah, hopefully no promises onthat one to anybody listening to
that.
More leads more work.
They're going to show up, right, but I just say that it is kind
of one of those intrinsicvalues, right, that's kind of
hard to fully quantify.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Yeah, cool.
So we just went through somestrategies for folks that are
under $1 million.
What would you say?
What should be the focus for apainting business that's doing
over a million in revenue?
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Yeah.
So I think, as you start tomove over a million, and we'll
look at what's the goal, what'sthe target, what's the next
level right, Because those allmatter too.
Everything we talked about ispart of the deal right.
So oh, you get to a million fiveand you want to go to 2.5, you
don't get to stop doing thereviews or stop doing the emails
or stop collecting the data.
(18:40):
So I think I would put that inthere as really some core, some
core things In those phases andthese other things I'm going to
mention here are also probablythings that would stick in the
sub million.
But old school marketing greatyard signs, guys in t-shirts on
(19:01):
your job sites, right, wrappedvehicle.
Well, professional wrappedvehicle.
I think there's a stat that aservice vehicle working 50 hours
a week in the Washington DCarea will be seen by like 95,000
people while it's traveling onthe highways and roads for a
(19:24):
week on average.
So 100,000 free eyes going towork, right.
So don't discredit like hey, anold, you know, a white truck or
van or pickup vehicle orwhatever with a magnet.
Don't discredit the value ofwrapping it.
Those are little things, right?
That kind of start to tie inthere Outside of those we'll
(19:49):
call those being more likephysical real world, I don't
know how you want to term those.
As you start to move and youwant to grow, million, million
plus, you know, word of mouthstarts to dwindle, right,
referrals are great, but if youreally want to grow in scale.
There has to be a growth planto get the new leads to the
(20:12):
business right.
What we look at, then, is how dopeople find you?
Well, one, everything we justtalked about?
Right, the signs, the trucks,the guys in their t-shirts right
, they're going into wow, how toget a sandwich for lunch?
They're running into the homedepot.
People see them.
Right, this is just the way itworks.
But how do people go lookingand finding For us and again,
(20:37):
this matters a little bitresidential, commercial new
construction, like who are youpainting for?
What are you doing?
What's the expertise?
On the resi side, a reallystrong online presence is going
to probably be the next piece.
How do we really dominate thesearch engines?
It's kind of the take as youevolve and move higher, that
(21:02):
investment into those thingsbecomes bigger and bigger.
Right, I can talk in a littledetail on some of those, but
that would be the high levelthing is we're doing kind of
that physical world marketing.
But then how do people find usright when the word of mouth
runs out, when this guy can onlytell so many neighbors, how do
we get to the next neighborhood?
(21:24):
Right, that would be the kind oftalk track that I would look at
.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
So strong online presence, basically dominating
whenever they search ABC,painting or whatever your name,
is that you are on the top?
Three pack or whatever.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
Yeah, I'm gonna give you the search term that no
marketer loves Best painter nearme.
Near me is the bane of myexistence, right, because near
me.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
What does that?
Speaker 3 (21:51):
mean right, but so many people look that way.
As we look at the internet,right, and we look at dominating
kind of that search engine page, what does that mean?
How does it apply?
The search engine result page?
There's a desktop format,there's a mobile format.
They're kind of married alittle bit.
(22:12):
Fundamentally, most homeservices, most painting, you're
gonna get those local serviceads that we talked about right
at the beginning.
You get your map or search ads,so it's ad ad map.
There can be ads within the map.
Then we move into organic.
There are some other featureson there.
Like other people askstructured snippets, featured
(22:34):
answers.
They'll interspersed some ads.
We talk about how marketing'salways changing.
Google stole one from theFacebook Instagram universe
where they went to this kind ofinfinite scroll on Google.
You notice how you no longerget go to page two, go to page
three, go to page two at thebottom.
That was stolen from Metta andFacebook because you can just
(22:56):
scroll through Facebook andInstagram forever.
That's true.
I think they do tap out likeseven or eight pages of results,
but you'll get more adsinterspersed when we talk about
strong online presence.
It's all right.
This is my service area.
These are my core services.
These are the keywords thatshould make sense for me.
(23:16):
How am I showing up anddominating in all areas of that
page?
Because that's how people arelooking and searching, right?
I'm new to town.
How do I find a painter?
Best painter near me?
Best what's painter near me?
Has the best reviews?
Best painter Baltimore MeritRight you?
Speaker 2 (23:39):
know what I'm saying, I'm just it's how people look.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
So now, what's the investment look like from?
What's the strategy look like?
Right how?
Speaker 1 (23:49):
do we get into all?
Speaker 3 (23:50):
these places.
The LSAs can be a pain thelocal service ads to get the
Google guarantee going becauseof the background check and the
licensing check, but, candidly,most people can navigate that
themselves and then you just setit up with budget.
What we find really interestingabout those is they work really
well in some markets but theydon't work as well in other
(24:12):
markets.
I don't know what it is.
Most people listening willprobably be like oh, we don't
like Angie's list.
Angie's list has ripped us offor their leads suck or whatever.
Well, in Indiana, where AngieHicks founded Angie's list,
angie's list still doesextremely well for contractors
in Indiana because it was likefrom there right.
(24:34):
So like it's just one of thosemarket things I'm just using as
an example, local service ads.
Then we look at local SEO tokind of get in the map.
Then we look at paid ads tokind of get into the next bucket
, and then we look at theorganic SEO and there's
marketing strategies that youput in place behind each one,
and then for us it's what makesthe most sense for that
(24:57):
painter's business.
What are their needs, what arethey trying to accomplish, what
are their markets look like?
We then build strategy around.
Well, let's focus here and here, or let's focus here and here
because budget is a factor,right, we target them and then
we build strategy, and then forus it's really about tracking
(25:20):
results and outcomes.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
All right.
So basically, you want toimprove your online presence
with getting really specific onwhat service areas, what areas
you're in and where you want todominate, and then also your
service types.
Make sure you're showing up foreach of your service types yeah
, dialing in your local serviceads, your organic ranking and
(25:51):
then also regular Google ads andmake sure you're tracking the
success of each of those thingsso you know what's giving you
the best return on investment soyou can pivot as necessary.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
Yeah, and look to figure this out at a million is
incredible.
There's a lot of people thatstruggle to figure this out at
10 million, right, all of thesethings are so interconnected, do
you know what I'm saying?
And so the tracking and theattribution is always
challenging.
What we just really believe inis, if you're going to say, hey,
(26:29):
aaron, I'm going to pay all theVISTA X dollars to do these
things, we'll like, okay, here'swhat we're going to do, here's
why we're going to do them,here's our expected outcome.
And let's track the results sothat we can really say, hey,
yeah, investing $1,500 a monthinto SEO and local SEO and these
services.
Right, what did we get out of it?
(26:50):
Who called my business?
Who filled out a form?
How much traffic?
How's my traffic improved?
How many?
How's my conversions improved?
Right, there's just so manyworking parts we're, at the end
of the day, really being able totie back.
Here are the phone calls, hereare the form fills we believe
came that we can kind of webelieve we can really kind of
(27:12):
demonstrate came from thischannel and this investment.
That's how we then make theeducated decision of what do we
do next.
Right, because we're talkingover a million.
But there's somebody listening,who's five that wants to go to
seven, then nine, then 11.
Right, and those informeddecisions matter at every jump
on the way to wherever you wantto go.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
So when you guys are tracking, you're helping answer
that question of what is yourreturn on investment for each
one of those efforts, of whetherit's LSA or.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
We do our best.
Some of that does come on tothe client telling us what they
closed, who.
They closed it with that CRM,and we're not.
We will consult on CRMs andhelp with them, but we don't
sell them, we don't recommendone.
We personally use Salesforce torun our business, but we have
clients that use everything outthere, Right.
(28:08):
So the client having a systemin place that they can use to
say, okay, here are all theleads, we can do our best to say
, yeah, well, we think John Doecalled you from.
John Doe called you fromOrganic, Jane Doe called you
from an LSA, Suzy Williamscalled you from a paid Google ad
(28:29):
Right.
So they can then put in theirsystem lead sources and kind of
spit it out.
We can help people get to allthis, but unless the customer is
diligent about tracking ontheir side and then sharing it,
it's kind of hard for us toshare it.
But we're going to try to givethe tools and resources so that
it can be done.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
So, as a painting business owner, what should I be
doing to making sure I am doingthat attribution correctly when
they schedule an estimateasking how did you hear about us
?
And because if somebody saysInternet Online, I found you
(29:13):
online.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
Daniel Right, exactly , well, great, we're only
talking about Google and we'reonly talking about LSAs, the map
, the paid ad and the organic.
We're not talking about any ofthose things on Bing.
We're not talking about any ofthose things on Facebook or
Instagram or anything, Right, sowe're not Right.
So online, is that reallyhelpful lead source?
(29:36):
We behind the scenes wouldreally use a lot of technology
and code and different things toinsert phone numbers, that
track and record.
We can use things called a UTMsource which tells us where
visitor to our website is comingfrom.
We can use a UTM source to kindof see, okay, this contact form
(30:00):
that was filled out by John Doe.
Their source to our website wasBing, Organic, Right.
So there's some things we needfrom a technology standpoint and
from a setup standpoint we willhave more advantage on.
But for someone who, well, it'sunder a million, I want to DIY
this.
Right, how did you hear aboutus?
(30:22):
Internet great, I saw the van.
Great.
Jane Williams referred me.
Great, Even at the most baselevel referral, saw the van.
Internet Okay, that's stillbetter and allows us to become
more informed all the waythrough, right.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
Yeah, makes sense.
One of the common things that Ihear working with painting
business owners is I hired amarketing company and it just
didn't work out.
They didn't do anything for meor you know, they don't seem
clear like they paid a bunch ofmoney but I didn't get anything
out of it.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
Yeah, you know, we hear that all the time too.
Right, I always sell people.
Well, I had a really badexperience with this painter one
time, right.
So how are you?
What are you going to do for me?
Right, I always make a littlejokingly, right, cause every
contractor's heard well, I had abad experience with this, or
this is the last guy.
I did a terrible job painting mykids bedrooms or whatever it is
(31:24):
right and so it's almost likethe onus of the prior bad
experience falls on the next guy, whether you're a marketer or
you're a painter.
So I tell people to always kindof keep that in mind, of
remember that time you gotblamed because the last painter
didn't do a great job for himright, that's not my answer to
the question, I just always kindof talk anecdotally like hey.
(31:45):
Daniel my last bookkeeperlanded me a huge fine with the
IRS right.
Like okay well, I'm not going to.
You know what I mean.
Like that's not me.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
So the same sort of deal right.
Speaker 3 (31:59):
For us, it's really about honesty, transparency,
right, and then in depthreporting.
We want our customers to knowwhat they're getting, what value
we created, and that, for us,is about you know we do
everything like we do livedashboards and you get to see
your cost per lead on Google andyou get to see your social
media interaction stats and youget to see your SEO and how it
(32:21):
grows and your traffic reportsfrom Google analytics right.
So we want to always bedemonstrating how the investment
into the marketing what is?
What are the results look like?
Equally important, if not moreimportant, to the core results.
We're also going to hit prettyhard on well, like, what's the
lead flow look like?
Right, also sharing, like hey,daniel, this is what we did this
(32:46):
month.
This is why we did it.
This was something we did toimpact and improve your results.
It's not just.
This is 10,000 people saw yourad, 100 people clicked it.
One person called you.
Hey, daniel, it's March.
We just want to let you knowthat we updated all of your ads.
They're now all using imagesfrom spring.
(33:08):
They have beautiful outdoors.
They show people outside versuspeople inside the interior
things.
On the landing page for our ads, we changed the incentive offer
to $500 off exterior painterexterior painting versus $300
off interior paint.
What are we doing to drive theresult right?
(33:28):
Those are key things that weemphasize.
I also always share.
The more I can prove to youthat your investment into your
marketing is working and whatthe real results are, the longer
I'm going to keep you as acustomer and, like any business,
(33:48):
my goal is to keep customers,not lose customers and not
replace customers right.
So the more I can show you, themore I can demonstrate.
That's something I'm alwaysfocusing on.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
Yeah, that often seems to be the issue.
Why folks change is like theydidn't see anything happen, and
so that seems to be real.
Focus is making sure you'reactually getting results and
showing like, hey, this isbecause of XYZ effort we did.
Speaker 3 (34:16):
You got it right.
I'll use that example I justhad, where we said hey.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
This person said hey, my.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
SEO is really working .
And we talked and I said ohwell, 73% of your traffic all
goes to one page, and it's apage about how soon can you
sleep in a bedroom after youpaint it right.
And they were kind of like whatdo you mean?
73% of all my traffic goes tothat page.
I didn't even get into likewhere that this was a local
(34:48):
painting business right.
Not like this isn't Serta Proright.
This is not nationwide stuffhere.
This is a local paintingbusiness I didn't even wanna get
into like oh, I can also showyou what parts of the country
that's coming from, becauseguess what?
That's Mrs Jones, and she's inMiami, boston, seattle, los
(35:08):
Angeles and everywhere inbetween.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
That's not 1,100 people from around town, that's
1,100 people from around thecountry.
Speaker 3 (35:15):
So what we're getting at is, yes, hey, but you're
getting all this traffic.
You're getting over 2,000visitors a month, or 1,500
visitors a month.
Well, yes, but are they theright visitors?
Are they converting?
What's the lead look like?
So, just a kind of you knowlittle story.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
Yeah, no, that's excellent.
So how should folks reach outto AltaVista yourself to learn
more about getting help withmarketing?
Speaker 3 (35:44):
Yeah.
So anybody who wants to talk tous, we're willing to talk to
everybody.
We always do consultations,analysis, seo.
We can look at what you gotgoing on and tell you what we
might, what we see, what wemight do differently.
Really easy to reach us.
If you just Google AltaVistastrategic partners, we're gonna
come up number one for our name,right, and so there's that way.
(36:06):
Or anyone can also just emailme.
My email is just AaronA-A-R-O-N.
It's at AltaVistaSPcom.
So, right, altavista strategicpartners.
So it's just Aaron atAltaVistaSPcom and we can set
something up from there.
Fill out a form on the website,but we're pretty easy to get in
touch with.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
Excellent.
So yeah, if you need some helpwith marketing, definitely check
out AltaVista strategicpartners and with that, love to
hear your thoughts.
If you wanna give feedback onthe podcast, definitely go to
Facebook.
Type in Grow your PaintingBusiness, join the group and
love to hear your thoughts forfuture episodes.
Or if you want to ask somequestions of Aaron, definitely
(36:48):
chime in there and with that, wewill see you next week.
Welcome to the profitable painter podcast.
The mission of this podcast issimple To help you navigate the
financial and tax aspects ofstarting, running and scaling a
professional painting business,from the brushes and ladders to
the spreadsheets and balancesheets.
We've got you covered.
But before we dive in, a quickword of caution.
While we strive to provideaccurate and up-to-date
financial and tax information,nothing you hear on this podcast
(00:22):
should be considered asfinancial advice specifically
for you or your business.
We're here to share generalknowledge and experiences, not
to replace the tailored adviceyou get from a professional
financial advisor or taxconsultant.
We strongly recommend youseeking individualized advice
before making any significantfinancial decision.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
This is Daniel, the founder of Bookkeeping for
Painters, and today I'm herewith Aaron Huckle.
Aaron Huckle is a contractormarketing expert and is a
partner and vice president ofAltaVista Strategic Partners.
For over a decade, aaron andAltaVista team have worked with
commercial and residentialpainting contractors to grow and
scale their repaint businessusing targeted marketing and
(01:03):
digital advertising campaigns.
He has spoke at severalconferences, to include the 2023
CPIA Leadership Conference.
How's it going, aaron?
Welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
It's going well, Daniel.
Thanks for having me on today.
I'm looking forward to chattingwith you guys.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Absolutely Glad to have you excited to talk, to dig
into things Before we get intothe meat and potatoes.
I'm just curious about yourbackground.
You've had over a decade ofexperience with working with
contractors.
What initially drew you to thecontractor marketing space?
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Yeah, great question.
The quick origin story ofAltaVista.
We were co-founded in 2011,actually by two former
electricians.
The business originally gotstarted out as doing consulting
and marketing and sales trainingand all different kinds of
services focused on the tradesright.
So roofers, painters, plumbers,etc.
(02:00):
They actually approached me inthe fall of 2011.
I was working as a inrecruiting and staffing at that
time and they approached meabout doing sales for them and
helping them with sales to meetnew people, so really kind of
just got involved then.
It was a startup and we've beenreally just heavily focused on
(02:21):
working with roofers, painters,etc.
For the last 13 years now andmy experience has really been
very hands-on, working for a lotof people.
Marketing changes so quicklythat really what you knew even
two years ago is different today.
But that's kind of what it waskind of happening, just happened
, right.
No real intentional backgroundthere for me, but been doing it
(02:45):
a long time.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Yeah, and you're.
From what I've seen I'm not amarketing expert, but just
looking from the outside in justthe amount of changes that
happen in the marketing space.
It's ridiculous.
I was talking to somebody theother day.
They're like oh yeah, googleads, they're pretty much
worthless now.
You got to do the local serviceads now, like that's a recent
(03:11):
change apparently, but it seemslike every couple of months.
Facebook ads are different nowand it's just crazy to keep up
with the changes.
What are some recent changesthat you've seen.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Yeah, we see changes all the time.
It's funny you mentioned thelocal service ads and people
kind of saying, oh, we got toget on those now and ditch the
regular search ads.
So I remember when the localservice ads were beta testing
they were rolling out in randomUS cities and that was maybe
four or five years ago.
So even the idea of like oh, butmaybe they you know they open
(03:46):
up a new category or they add anew, this or Google puts more
emphasis on them, so it could besomething old that's still kind
of new.
The changes that we're seeingmost recently.
Facebook's always changing.
We're kind of closely keeping alittle eye on what's going to
happen with TikTok.
We don't do a ton of TikTokmarketing now, but there are
(04:07):
plenty of people who have builtreally large audiences on there
and if that goes away, reallywhere's that attention going to
shift?
People are still going toengage and be looking for
content and different things, sodoes that shift some eyes back
to Facebook and Instagram andmaybe create another push there?
You know there's Google'salgorithm always changing.
(04:29):
Interesting one on that frontand we'll probably talk more
about this later is on thereview side.
Google is now putting moreemphasis on reviews than ever
before.
That's something we've kind ofpicked up right, and they can
use AI now to more accuratelyread and understand reviews and
better use that information, andso what we're looking at is
(04:49):
well, how are reviews going totruly start to impact people
when they're searching right,because we can use that first
person authentic experiencecontent.
How does that interact Right.
So things are always changing.
Those are a couple of things onthe horizon we're keeping our
eye on, but I'm sure somethingnew will be right around the
corner as well.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
And I think for reviews.
I've heard some folks are, Iguess, to exploit.
What you just said is thatthey're kind of giving clients
almost like a template to use,like hey, here's kind of what
happened with your project andhere's some pictures of before
and after of your project.
Would you mind doing a Googlereview and kind of providing
(05:31):
them almost like the answersthat they can basically copy and
paste it into the Google reviewso that they're getting more
robust Google reviews?
Speaker 3 (05:40):
That definitely happens.
That definitely matters.
If you do that every time andeveryone looks very templated.
Just be always cautioned aboutsome red flags, right, like oh,
all these reviews look the same,they all have two before
pictures, two after pictures.
What is happening?
Don't know that.
That's anything a real warningsign.
But that depth of review withthe picture, with the comment
(06:03):
right, having employees by name,those are all really key things
that do make a difference.
There are even softwares nowthat are really kind of doing
more of that outreach to thatdepth right For the review,
asking for the review andproviding all that sort of stuff
can be done.
That's definitely, definitely abig one.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Okay, cool.
Well, what would you say for?
Because it seems like themarketing strategy for a
business that is just startingout is definitely way different
than a marketing strategy of somuch around a while.
Do you have any recommendationsfor someone who's just getting
started?
They're doing under one millionin revenue.
(06:46):
What should they really focuson, Because there's so much out
there and everything's changingLike?
Are there some things that theyshould really just dial in on
initially?
Speaker 3 (06:57):
Yeah, so that's a great question, right.
And we've worked withbusinesses in the residential
home services space and thecommercial space.
We've worked with people thathave we've helped get from a
million dollars in sales to amillion dollars in bulk, right.
So we've seen the journey.
We understand it at variousphases.
In what matters, there arefoundational principles that are
(07:18):
going to be right, that youneed to do at one million or 10
million or 100 million, quitehonestly, right.
The first one.
I'll give some key pieces ofadvice here to the person who's
under a million One be veryfocused on, like, who is your
customer, what do you do forthem, what does that look like?
(07:39):
And don't try to chase thatnext thing, meaning, if you're
really good at exteriors, yeah,certainly paint some interiors
in the wintertime, but don't gochasing dexthaining or cabinet
painting, right, kind of belaser focused and understand
where you want to go, like, hey,our sales are 800,000.
(07:59):
We want to grow to 1.1 millionand then 1.5 million.
The roadmap to getting there isgoing to be excellent at what
you do, well, right.
And having that predefined goalOnce the goal is defined, and
kind of understanding who thecustomer is, what the services
are, where geography is reallyimportant, right?
(08:19):
I would say get yourself a greatmobile friendly landing page or
website.
It does not need to be a hugewebsite, it does not need to be
super complex.
Some really nice, well designed, even if it's just one page,
maybe two or three pages short,sweet right, that works really
well on a phone.
Start there, everyone's lookingon their phones, right?
(08:41):
Hey, daniel, who painted yourhouse?
The outside looks great.
Oh, it was Aaron's painting.
You should call.
How does that person find it?
Right?
They're going to Google Aaron'spainting.
It's going to pop up on theirphone and we're going to look
for some ways we want them to go, but if they click to the
website, it needs to look nice.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
So I think that would kind of be a first point of
light there Under a million.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
If we're saying, hey, we're a little constrained in
terms of what we have fromfinancial resources to invest in
things, right, oh, maybe wecan't afford a billboard or a TV
commercial or $10,000 a monthwhere the Facebook ads right,
look at some really simplethings.
The reviews are cruciallyimportant.
You can get business cards madewith a QR code.
(09:25):
You can make it a process tosend an email to every completed
job.
But really, really focus on thereviews.
Don't emphasize 100% Google,80%, 10%.
See if you can get that balanceof 20%.
Try and get a review on Yelp.
We know they're really tough.
(09:45):
Try to get one on BBB.
Try to sprinkle them into acouple other places.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Right, that would probably be something that you
can just do it from your email.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
You can just do it with a business card with a QR
code, right.
You have a sales guyincentivize them to get reviews,
right.
So that would be another bigpart of it.
Get a CRM, get something, getthat you can use to just track
the customer data.
If it's just first name, lastname, phone number, cell phone
(10:18):
number, email address, streetaddress, right, having that core
information as you build yourcompany and you build your plan
really going to be very, veryhelpful.
After a million, we wouldemphasize a lot of things that
are what are like affordableresources.
That's kind of where I'm goingwith this, right.
So Mailchimp's base version,let's just send 1,000 contacts,
(10:42):
one email a month.
There's no charge for that.
Doesn't have a lot of bells andwhistles, right, but it's free.
So if you're building that listof contacts, well, there's a
lot of power this time of yearin sending an email to 1,000
people you've talked with in thepast saying did you decide on
an estimate If you have quotefor your exterior, right, so
(11:03):
that one would kind of besomething.
But we're not even getting tosending it yet.
We're just saying have aprocess in place to build that
data that we can build off ofinto the future.
There should be some reallyforward, straight ahead things.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
All right.
So basically, get your niche.
You know, focus on one thing todo, well, whether that's
cabinets or exterior.
Yeah, number two you want tohave a basic, good looking
website that shows up on mobile.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
Well, yeah, mobile first always.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Yeah.
And then number three you wantto have a process and incentives
to get, for your team to getreviews on various platforms.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
You got it.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
And then number four we want to make sure that we
have just a basic CRM, so we'recollecting that customer data
and then setting you up forreactive reactivating your
customers periodically.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
You got it right.
I mean, I talked to people andthey've been in business for 10
years and they're like man, wereally haven't done a good job
getting emails.
And you're like startimmediately, right, I don't care
if you're just writing themdown on a piece of paper, right,
start getting them.
One of our biggest clients isactually in the fence industry
and they're in New England andthey're a very well known name.
(12:17):
Last fall we sent out emails to55,000 people they had
previously given an estimate tosaying, hey, we're having an end
of year sale, we'reguaranteeing installs of white
of these three fence styles byNovember 15th.
Act now, take 20% off materials.
Blah, blah, blah.
(12:38):
Right?
Well, that kept them very busyinto a time of year when their
really activity is declining,from people looking to make home
services purchases October,late September, october and
November, right.
So it sounds crazy because,well, that's a lot, right?
Yeah, it is a lot, but youdon't get to 55,000 if you don't
(12:59):
get the first 50, right?
So, trust me, that's the powerof that kind of that data
capture and having thatinformation on hand.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
So 55,000, that was sent out.
That offer was sent out viaemail.
Yep, okay, what was theresponse rate on that?
Speaker 3 (13:17):
They generated over a thousand leads.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Wow, so that's over 2% or 2% about.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
That's really good.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
They weren't all leads of like yes, I need to buy
a fence immediately.
Some of them were like oh yeah,thanks for the email.
We're actually thinking aboutsomething in the spring.
Or you know, hey, we don't needanother fence, but we'd like to
put in a pergola.
Or hey, can you fix this gate?
You know what I mean.
There were kind of things inthere that weren't all just pure
like yeah, give me an estimateto buy a new fence.
But a thousand people thatwanted a conversation, I'll put
(13:53):
it at that.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Yeah, even if it's 1% , that's still 500 plus
estimates there.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
Yeah, that was crazy.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
So Okay, and that's something like what I've seen.
Looking at numbers is whenyou're doing reactivations is
somewhere between 1% and 3% atthe high end, but 1% and 3%
reactivation.
So if you send out, you know,even if your list is only 1000,
(14:24):
and that's 10 estimates, youknow that you could potentially
get that 1% reactivation.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
So, and that's those three of them, and it was free
to put their names in Excel.
It was free to get the mailchimp up to 1000.
And it took you an hour towrite the email blast and send
it out.
Well, that's, you put three anhour into the marketing.
Right, I know there's timeinvested in other places, but
you spent a minimal amount oftime and effort and you got 10,
(14:53):
10 estimates and we'll say,hopefully, one or two layups in
there.
Right, it's, reactivations aregreat.
It's not always about, like,the time of year and this and
that.
Right, it's sort of that.
Well, we want to evolve andwe'll talk about that journey of
like.
We go from a million or 800,000to 1.5 and then beyond.
When you find a partner or youhire somebody who's the best
(15:18):
cabinet painter in the area,well, now you take your list and
you let them know about yourcabinet painting.
Then you take your list and youlet them find out about your
deck and fence staining.
Then you take your list and letthem know hey, it's the winter
time, we're doing in 10% off allyou know, interiors, whatever.
It is right.
You're also able to leverage itto create activity in times of
(15:42):
year when you might haveseasonal dips, right.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
Yep, yeah, that makes sense.
I know a lot of folks are doing, you know, reactivations like
in the in the winter, for likeinterior, when you can focus on
that and that often can be ahuge.
You know a lot of people, a lotof painting business, a lot of
painting businesses are hurtingin the winter.
(16:09):
But if you, if you regularlyreactivate, you know your
customers to do interior work,that can really help smooth
things out.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
Yeah, absolutely.
I'm also going to take it astep further beyond, like a
what's a not really a marketingthing.
But you know plenty ofbusinesses that have that
seasonal slow down into thewinter.
If you're subcontracting, well,subs are loyal to the hand that
feeds them, right?
So the person that's keepingthe subcontractors busy in the
slower time they're going tohave more incentive.
(16:39):
It's really hard to findquality employees W2, full time
painters how do you keep thembusy?
To keep them on your staff,Right?
Like there's other intrinsicvalue to the business of
generating interior paintingleads in the winter yeah, sales
and growth and revenue and allthose other things.
But there's the intrinsic valueof well, you're keeping the
(17:00):
subs fed, You're keeping yourguys employed and getting 40
hours a week and paid, Right,you know what I mean.
And that stuff does spreadaround, right?
Because, oh hey, Daniel'spainting is the guy.
Well, hey, I was only getting30 hours a week in December and
January.
Oh well, I was getting 45.
Well, now, all of a sudden, youhave a job application showing
(17:23):
up on your doorstep, right?
I'm just sharing with you.
These are other intrinsicbenefits, right?
That people sometimes don'talways think about.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Yeah, no, it's a good point for sure, Because you
often hear the complaint like Ican't find a good work.
Well, if you're getting thework and word gets around,
you'll have folks knocking atyour door to work for you.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
So that's a good point.
Yeah, hopefully no promises onthat one to anybody listening to
that.
More leads more work.
They're going to show up, right, but I just say that it is kind
of one of those intrinsicvalues, right, that's kind of
hard to fully quantify.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Yeah, cool.
So we just went through somestrategies for folks that are
under $1 million.
What would you say?
What should be the focus for apainting business that's doing
over a million in revenue?
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Yeah.
So I think, as you start tomove over a million, and we'll
look at what's the goal, what'sthe target, what's the next
level right, Because those allmatter too.
Everything we talked about ispart of the deal right.
So oh, you get to a million fiveand you want to go to 2.5, you
don't get to stop doing thereviews or stop doing the emails
or stop collecting the data.
(18:40):
So I think I would put that inthere as really some core, some
core things In those phases andthese other things I'm going to
mention here are also probablythings that would stick in the
sub million.
But old school marketing greatyard signs, guys in t-shirts on
(19:01):
your job sites, right, wrappedvehicle.
Well, professional wrappedvehicle.
I think there's a stat that aservice vehicle working 50 hours
a week in the Washington DCarea will be seen by like 95,000
people while it's traveling onthe highways and roads for a
(19:24):
week on average.
So 100,000 free eyes going towork, right.
So don't discredit like hey, anold, you know, a white truck or
van or pickup vehicle orwhatever with a magnet.
Don't discredit the value ofwrapping it.
Those are little things, right?
That kind of start to tie inthere Outside of those we'll
(19:49):
call those being more likephysical real world, I don't
know how you want to term those.
As you start to move and youwant to grow, million, million
plus, you know, word of mouthstarts to dwindle, right,
referrals are great, but if youreally want to grow in scale.
There has to be a growth planto get the new leads to the
(20:12):
business right.
What we look at, then, is how dopeople find you?
Well, one, everything we justtalked about?
Right, the signs, the trucks,the guys in their t-shirts right
, they're going into wow, how toget a sandwich for lunch?
They're running into the homedepot.
People see them.
Right, this is just the way itworks.
But how do people go lookingand finding For us and again,
(20:37):
this matters a little bitresidential, commercial new
construction, like who are youpainting for?
What are you doing?
What's the expertise?
On the resi side, a reallystrong online presence is going
to probably be the next piece.
How do we really dominate thesearch engines?
It's kind of the take as youevolve and move higher, that
(21:02):
investment into those thingsbecomes bigger and bigger.
Right, I can talk in a littledetail on some of those, but
that would be the high levelthing is we're doing kind of
that physical world marketing.
But then how do people find usright when the word of mouth
runs out, when this guy can onlytell so many neighbors, how do
we get to the next neighborhood?
(21:24):
Right, that would be the kind oftalk track that I would look at
.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
So strong online presence, basically dominating
whenever they search ABC,painting or whatever your name,
is that you are on the top?
Three pack or whatever.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
Yeah, I'm gonna give you the search term that no
marketer loves Best painter nearme.
Near me is the bane of myexistence, right, because near
me.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
What does that?
Speaker 3 (21:51):
mean right, but so many people look that way.
As we look at the internet,right, and we look at dominating
kind of that search engine page, what does that mean?
How does it apply?
The search engine result page?
There's a desktop format,there's a mobile format.
They're kind of married alittle bit.
(22:12):
Fundamentally, most homeservices, most painting, you're
gonna get those local serviceads that we talked about right
at the beginning.
You get your map or search ads,so it's ad ad map.
There can be ads within the map.
Then we move into organic.
There are some other featureson there.
Like other people askstructured snippets, featured
(22:34):
answers.
They'll interspersed some ads.
We talk about how marketing'salways changing.
Google stole one from theFacebook Instagram universe
where they went to this kind ofinfinite scroll on Google.
You notice how you no longerget go to page two, go to page
three, go to page two at thebottom.
That was stolen from Metta andFacebook because you can just
(22:56):
scroll through Facebook andInstagram forever.
That's true.
I think they do tap out likeseven or eight pages of results,
but you'll get more adsinterspersed when we talk about
strong online presence.
It's all right.
This is my service area.
These are my core services.
These are the keywords thatshould make sense for me.
(23:16):
How am I showing up anddominating in all areas of that
page?
Because that's how people arelooking and searching, right?
I'm new to town.
How do I find a painter?
Best painter near me?
Best what's painter near me?
Has the best reviews?
Best painter Baltimore MeritRight you?
Speaker 2 (23:39):
know what I'm saying, I'm just it's how people look.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
So now, what's the investment look like from?
What's the strategy look like?
Right how?
Speaker 1 (23:49):
do we get into all?
Speaker 3 (23:50):
these places.
The LSAs can be a pain thelocal service ads to get the
Google guarantee going becauseof the background check and the
licensing check, but, candidly,most people can navigate that
themselves and then you just setit up with budget.
What we find really interestingabout those is they work really
well in some markets but theydon't work as well in other
(24:12):
markets.
I don't know what it is.
Most people listening willprobably be like oh, we don't
like Angie's list.
Angie's list has ripped us offor their leads suck or whatever.
Well, in Indiana, where AngieHicks founded Angie's list,
angie's list still doesextremely well for contractors
in Indiana because it was likefrom there right.
(24:34):
So like it's just one of thosemarket things I'm just using as
an example, local service ads.
Then we look at local SEO tokind of get in the map.
Then we look at paid ads tokind of get into the next bucket
, and then we look at theorganic SEO and there's
marketing strategies that youput in place behind each one,
and then for us it's what makesthe most sense for that
(24:57):
painter's business.
What are their needs, what arethey trying to accomplish, what
are their markets look like?
We then build strategy around.
Well, let's focus here and here, or let's focus here and here
because budget is a factor,right, we target them and then
we build strategy, and then forus it's really about tracking
(25:20):
results and outcomes.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
All right.
So basically, you want toimprove your online presence
with getting really specific onwhat service areas, what areas
you're in and where you want todominate, and then also your
service types.
Make sure you're showing up foreach of your service types yeah
, dialing in your local serviceads, your organic ranking and
(25:51):
then also regular Google ads andmake sure you're tracking the
success of each of those thingsso you know what's giving you
the best return on investment soyou can pivot as necessary.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
Yeah, and look to figure this out at a million is
incredible.
There's a lot of people thatstruggle to figure this out at
10 million, right, all of thesethings are so interconnected, do
you know what I'm saying?
And so the tracking and theattribution is always
challenging.
What we just really believe inis, if you're going to say, hey,
(26:29):
aaron, I'm going to pay all theVISTA X dollars to do these
things, we'll like, okay, here'swhat we're going to do, here's
why we're going to do them,here's our expected outcome.
And let's track the results sothat we can really say, hey,
yeah, investing $1,500 a monthinto SEO and local SEO and these
services.
Right, what did we get out of it?
(26:50):
Who called my business?
Who filled out a form?
How much traffic?
How's my traffic improved?
How many?
How's my conversions improved?
Right, there's just so manyworking parts we're, at the end
of the day, really being able totie back.
Here are the phone calls, hereare the form fills we believe
came that we can kind of webelieve we can really kind of
(27:12):
demonstrate came from thischannel and this investment.
That's how we then make theeducated decision of what do we
do next.
Right, because we're talkingover a million.
But there's somebody listening,who's five that wants to go to
seven, then nine, then 11.
Right, and those informeddecisions matter at every jump
on the way to wherever you wantto go.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
So when you guys are tracking, you're helping answer
that question of what is yourreturn on investment for each
one of those efforts, of whetherit's LSA or.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
We do our best.
Some of that does come on tothe client telling us what they
closed, who.
They closed it with that CRM,and we're not.
We will consult on CRMs andhelp with them, but we don't
sell them, we don't recommendone.
We personally use Salesforce torun our business, but we have
clients that use everything outthere, Right.
(28:08):
So the client having a systemin place that they can use to
say, okay, here are all theleads, we can do our best to say
, yeah, well, we think John Doecalled you from.
John Doe called you fromOrganic, Jane Doe called you
from an LSA, Suzy Williamscalled you from a paid Google ad
(28:29):
Right.
So they can then put in theirsystem lead sources and kind of
spit it out.
We can help people get to allthis, but unless the customer is
diligent about tracking ontheir side and then sharing it,
it's kind of hard for us toshare it.
But we're going to try to givethe tools and resources so that
it can be done.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
So, as a painting business owner, what should I be
doing to making sure I am doingthat attribution correctly when
they schedule an estimateasking how did you hear about us
?
And because if somebody saysInternet Online, I found you
(29:13):
online.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
Daniel Right, exactly , well, great, we're only
talking about Google and we'reonly talking about LSAs, the map
, the paid ad and the organic.
We're not talking about any ofthose things on Bing.
We're not talking about any ofthose things on Facebook or
Instagram or anything, Right, sowe're not Right.
So online, is that reallyhelpful lead source?
(29:36):
We behind the scenes wouldreally use a lot of technology
and code and different things toinsert phone numbers, that
track and record.
We can use things called a UTMsource which tells us where
visitor to our website is comingfrom.
We can use a UTM source to kindof see, okay, this contact form
(30:00):
that was filled out by John Doe.
Their source to our website wasBing, Organic, Right.
So there's some things we needfrom a technology standpoint and
from a setup standpoint we willhave more advantage on.
But for someone who, well, it'sunder a million, I want to DIY
this.
Right, how did you hear aboutus?
(30:22):
Internet great, I saw the van.
Great.
Jane Williams referred me.
Great, Even at the most baselevel referral, saw the van.
Internet Okay, that's stillbetter and allows us to become
more informed all the waythrough, right.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
Yeah, makes sense.
One of the common things that Ihear working with painting
business owners is I hired amarketing company and it just
didn't work out.
They didn't do anything for meor you know, they don't seem
clear like they paid a bunch ofmoney but I didn't get anything
out of it.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
Yeah, you know, we hear that all the time too.
Right, I always sell people.
Well, I had a really badexperience with this painter one
time, right.
So how are you?
What are you going to do for me?
Right, I always make a littlejokingly, right, cause every
contractor's heard well, I had abad experience with this, or
this is the last guy.
I did a terrible job painting mykids bedrooms or whatever it is
(31:24):
right and so it's almost likethe onus of the prior bad
experience falls on the next guy, whether you're a marketer or
you're a painter.
So I tell people to always kindof keep that in mind, of
remember that time you gotblamed because the last painter
didn't do a great job for himright, that's not my answer to
the question, I just always kindof talk anecdotally like hey.
(31:45):
Daniel my last bookkeeperlanded me a huge fine with the
IRS right.
Like okay well, I'm not going to.
You know what I mean.
Like that's not me.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
So the same sort of deal right.
Speaker 3 (31:59):
For us, it's really about honesty, transparency,
right, and then in depthreporting.
We want our customers to knowwhat they're getting, what value
we created, and that, for us,is about you know we do
everything like we do livedashboards and you get to see
your cost per lead on Google andyou get to see your social
media interaction stats and youget to see your SEO and how it
(32:21):
grows and your traffic reportsfrom Google analytics right.
So we want to always bedemonstrating how the investment
into the marketing what is?
What are the results look like?
Equally important, if not moreimportant, to the core results.
We're also going to hit prettyhard on well, like, what's the
lead flow look like?
Right, also sharing, like hey,daniel, this is what we did this
(32:46):
month.
This is why we did it.
This was something we did toimpact and improve your results.
It's not just.
This is 10,000 people saw yourad, 100 people clicked it.
One person called you.
Hey, daniel, it's March.
We just want to let you knowthat we updated all of your ads.
They're now all using imagesfrom spring.
(33:08):
They have beautiful outdoors.
They show people outside versuspeople inside the interior
things.
On the landing page for our ads, we changed the incentive offer
to $500 off exterior painterexterior painting versus $300
off interior paint.
What are we doing to drive theresult right?
(33:28):
Those are key things that weemphasize.
I also always share.
The more I can prove to youthat your investment into your
marketing is working and whatthe real results are, the longer
I'm going to keep you as acustomer and, like any business,
(33:48):
my goal is to keep customers,not lose customers and not
replace customers right.
So the more I can show you, themore I can demonstrate.
That's something I'm alwaysfocusing on.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
Yeah, that often seems to be the issue.
Why folks change is like theydidn't see anything happen, and
so that seems to be real.
Focus is making sure you'reactually getting results and
showing like, hey, this isbecause of XYZ effort we did.
Speaker 3 (34:16):
You got it right.
I'll use that example I justhad, where we said hey.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
This person said hey, my.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
SEO is really working .
And we talked and I said ohwell, 73% of your traffic all
goes to one page, and it's apage about how soon can you
sleep in a bedroom after youpaint it right.
And they were kind of like whatdo you mean?
73% of all my traffic goes tothat page.
I didn't even get into likewhere that this was a local
(34:48):
painting business right.
Not like this isn't Serta Proright.
This is not nationwide stuffhere.
This is a local paintingbusiness I didn't even wanna get
into like oh, I can also showyou what parts of the country
that's coming from, becauseguess what?
That's Mrs Jones, and she's inMiami, boston, seattle, los
(35:08):
Angeles and everywhere inbetween.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
That's not 1,100 people from around town, that's
1,100 people from around thecountry.
Speaker 3 (35:15):
So what we're getting at is, yes, hey, but you're
getting all this traffic.
You're getting over 2,000visitors a month, or 1,500
visitors a month.
Well, yes, but are they theright visitors?
Are they converting?
What's the lead look like?
So, just a kind of you knowlittle story.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
Yeah, no, that's excellent.
So how should folks reach outto AltaVista yourself to learn
more about getting help withmarketing?
Speaker 3 (35:44):
Yeah.
So anybody who wants to talk tous, we're willing to talk to
everybody.
We always do consultations,analysis, seo.
We can look at what you gotgoing on and tell you what we
might, what we see, what wemight do differently.
Really easy to reach us.
If you just Google AltaVistastrategic partners, we're gonna
come up number one for our name,right, and so there's that way.
(36:06):
Or anyone can also just emailme.
My email is just AaronA-A-R-O-N.
It's at AltaVistaSPcom.
So, right, altavista strategicpartners.
So it's just Aaron atAltaVistaSPcom and we can set
something up from there.
Fill out a form on the website,but we're pretty easy to get in
touch with.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
Excellent.
So yeah, if you need some helpwith marketing, definitely check
out AltaVista strategicpartners and with that, love to
hear your thoughts.
If you wanna give feedback onthe podcast, definitely go to
Facebook.
Type in Grow your PaintingBusiness, join the group and
love to hear your thoughts forfuture episodes.
Or if you want to ask somequestions of Aaron, definitely
(36:48):
chime in there and with that, wewill see you next week.
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