October 24, 2025 • 29 mins
In this episode, Daniel sits down with Chad Turpen, owner of a thriving painting business in Indiana, to unpack how he grew from a one-man operation to a $3M powerhouse, all while staying true to his mission of raising the standard in the painting trade.
Chad opens up about the lessons learned from scaling, hiring the right team, and the importance of branding, marketing, and mindset in building a long-term, sustainable business. Whether you're just starting out or pushing past seven figures, this episode is full of hard-earned insights and real-world strategies that every contractor can learn from.
Tune in to discover:
- How Chad doubled revenue from $1.5M to $3M in just one year.
- The key hires and systems that unlocked explosive growth.
- How balancing residential and commercial work helps manage cash flow.
- Simple marketing moves, from door hangers to social media — that actually work.
- Why mindset and consistency matter more than any single tactic.
Subscribe now and learn how to build a painting business that grows profitably and sustainably, one episode at a time!
For being a loyal listener, I want to send you a copy of my new book Profitable Painter. Inside, I’ll show you the exact frameworks that have helped painting businesses save big on taxes, increase profits, and scale with confidence
Head over to profitablepaintercpa.com/book and grab your copy today. Don’t wait — this is my gift to you for being part of the Profitable Painter community.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Welcome to the Profitable Painter Podcast.
The mission of this podcast issimple: to help you navigate the
financial and tax aspects ofstarting, running, and scaling a
professional painting business.
From the brushes and ladders tothe spreadsheets and balance
sheets, we've got you covered.
But before we dive in, a quickword of caution.
While we strive to provideaccurate and up-to-date
financial and tax information,nothing you hear on this podcast
(00:22):
should be considered asfinancial advice, specifically
for you or your business.
We're here to share generalknowledge and experiences, not
to replace the tailored adviceyou get from a professional
financial advisor or taxconsultant.
We strongly recommend youseeking individualized advice
before making any significantfinancial decision.
SPEAKER_01 (00:45):
Welcome to the Profitable Painter Podcast, the
show where painting contractorslearn how to boost profits, cut
taxes, and build a business thatworks for them.
I'm your host, Daniel Honan, CPAand former painting business
owner in your guide to masteringthe numbers that drive success.
So let's dive in and make yourbusiness more profitable one
episode at a time.
Super excited today to talk toChad Turpin out of Indiana.
(01:05):
He has a great painting businessout of Indiana.
How's it going today, Chad?
SPEAKER_02 (01:09):
Good, man.
Appreciate you having me on.
SPEAKER_01 (01:11):
Awesome.
I'm super excited to jump intothings.
So if you could give thelisteners kind of an idea of,
you know, how did you getstarted in the painting
industry?
What's been your journey alongthe way, maybe with some major
milestones?
SPEAKER_02 (01:23):
Got into the industry, joined a union company
in my early 20s.
Um, got out of the uh industryafter about four or five years,
um, just due to uh where theeconomy was, um, took some time,
um, went back to school myselfand was just needing people I
found out were still needingpainting.
So um, I was going to schoolfull-time, um, working full
(01:45):
time, and uh really one of themwas just gonna start to suffer.
And we were doing pretty goodwith the painting.
So talked to my counselor atschool, walked away from uh
school after his advice, and uhstarted a painting business 15
yeah years later.
Here we are.
So um yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (02:00):
So you've been in the game for a while.
SPEAKER_02 (02:02):
A little bit, a little bit now.
So uh weren't too big when wefirst started, and I honestly
wasn't even uh worried aboutgrowing at that point.
I was focused on just kind ofliving my life and and kind of
having the freedom that I ownthe business, um, you know, that
you get with own the business.
So um the first four or fiveyears we were, you know, kind of
me, myself, and I with a couplepeople, and then um some
(02:23):
fortunate events with uh umhurting my back myself and doing
too many things and um trying towant to scale and times to step
out of that position and reachuh start step out and let other
guys do the painting and thingslike that.
SPEAKER_01 (02:36):
Okay.
So you actually started it wasmore out of necessity, really,
to grow because you you werehurt.
And then so you're like, I needto hire painters to actually do
the work because right now I'mnot able.
Is that right?
SPEAKER_02 (02:49):
Right, yeah, yeah.
It's a lot of it's happenedorganically.
We've done a lot of things too.
Um, obviously, you know, havingthe right uh practices, doing
good jobs, um, you know, doingwhat, you know, fulfilling, you
know, being ready whenopportunities come and uh taking
advantage of those really umwhen given opportunities.
Um it's just really it helped usscale and and you know get to
(03:10):
where we're at now.
But yeah, I mean, obviously somemarketing, some advertising, and
knowing what you're doing,knowing your numbers, um,
knowing all those things, I'mobviously helping what you're
doing too as well.
SPEAKER_01 (03:20):
Okay.
And and so after, you know, thatthe first five years uh um you
were kind of just working on thejob site with a small team, then
you got hurt, you um got somepainters to start working, you
know, actually doing the jobs.
Uh and so the last 10 yearsyou've actually been grow kind
of more deliberately growing.
(03:41):
Is that fair to say?
SPEAKER_02 (03:42):
Oh, yeah, definitely.
I mean, definitely.
We've been trying, uh pushingmore in the last five years,
really, uh, with things I thinkthat we've done better um as far
as social media, marketing, andadvertising.
But um, I think it all goes handin hand with your branding um
and and just being ready whenthe time comes.
Like I said, knowing yournumbers, um, knowing your
(04:02):
market, um, knowing your team,uh, all those things kind of
factor in and have to reallycome together for you to to
scale and reach that point.
SPEAKER_01 (04:10):
Okay.
And just to so we have morecontext, how how large, how much
revenue are you guys doing?
Like how large your large isyour team at this point?
SPEAKER_02 (04:18):
Right now we have 15 painters.
Um, we're looking at doing about2.5, 3 million this year.
Last year we were looking, wefinished about 1.5.
Um the year before that, we werea little slower um growth.
I think we were about uh one toone 1.2.
Um but the numbers kind ofjumped.
When we first started, we wereat, you know, I think my first
(04:39):
year I did 60,000 by myself,then it jumped to 120, then it
jumped to 240, you know, 350,500, and so on.
Um but I think a big part of itum is like I said, your
branding, your marketing, andeverything has to align.
You got to have the people um inplace to be able to do their
jobs.
We all want to jump really fastand have these big, huge jumps
(05:02):
and these really big numbers.
Um, but if you don't have thepeople in place uh to do that,
you obviously could have somesetbacks and running some
problems that way.
SPEAKER_01 (05:10):
Yeah.
So really incredible growth fromlast year to this year.
So like you're 1.5 last year,this year you're on track to
potentially double, like rightaround double.
Yeah.
Which is it's easier to do thatwhen you're smaller, but when
you you know 1.5 to 3 million,that's a big jump, really quite
(05:31):
really quick.
SPEAKER_03 (05:33):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (05:33):
Um, what what do you think allowed you to do that big
jump?
What did you have in place uh tomake that such a big jump so
quickly?
SPEAKER_02 (05:43):
Um well, obviously we knew we needed more painters,
um, but myself really juststepping back, um, and I knew I
was gonna have to step away fromdoing estimates.
I couldn't be estimator, projectmanager, um, and organizer, you
know, what's going on at theshop and all these things.
So once we hired an estimator,um he does all the everything
that comes in, whether it's uhcommercial or residential.
(06:06):
Um, but I will help on somecommercial ones still with um
some existing contracts that wealready have.
So I do still help with some ofthose and do some of those for
him.
But um hiring him has been huge.
So um we're even looking athiring another one just after
getting him going out the waythis year's went.
Um in the way we've kind of beenable to kind of drive drive our
our our time out that you knowthat people can get to us.
(06:29):
We like to keep it about two orthree months.
Um, and we've kind of hit thatwall where you know, three
months, three, three and a halfmonths is kind of as far as
people like to wait.
Um the first time we've reallyreally ran into that problem
where you know we've actuallylost a couple of customers
because they're just not willingto wait that amount of time.
So yeah, um, at that point intime, we need painters, and you
know, and I think that's anotherpart that's that's been our
(06:51):
problem of growing and gettingeven you know higher this year.
I mean, I think if we couldhave, you know, got a little
higher as far as the paintersthat we had and got you know
some more guys in here, I thinkwe could definitely turn a
higher number.
But I think that's the problemwith most uh contractors across
the nation, not even just inpainting, but in in uh in
general is finding the guys.
And that's what we're trying totalk to now as younger
(07:11):
generations and trades and tradeschools and get them in the door
and get them started.
SPEAKER_01 (07:15):
So yeah.
Yeah, it's definitely a commontheme over the last couple of
years, folks.
It sounds like the constraint ofyour business is actually having
the team to produce the workbecause you your demand, uh,
even now, you're it sounds likeyou're booked out several
months, even though you doubledyour revenue.
Um your your your constraintisn't enough having enough work.
(07:39):
It's really just having enoughpainters and of a team to
produce the work.
Is that fair to say?
SPEAKER_02 (07:44):
Definitely.
SPEAKER_01 (07:45):
Okay.
That's that's that's well, it'sa great problem to have.
I mean, it's a definitely aproblem, but it's you know, a
lot of folks struggle with thegetting the leads piece, but it
sounds like you guys have thatfigured out.
So, what what have you beendoing from a marketing
perspective, especially in thelast year or two or three?
Um, what have you figured outthat's just been able to get as
(08:08):
much work as you can handle?
SPEAKER_02 (08:10):
Um, well, I mean, it's it's been a combination.
We've built relationships withother contractors and general
contractors throughout theyears, um, which, like I said,
when you're ready and you'regiven a job, you're given an
opportunity, and you take careof it and you know, and really
grab a hold of it, and um, youknow, they're gonna keep coming
back to you.
So organically um building theserelationships, but also um with
(08:30):
just our presence um across theboard with social media, um just
showing more before and afters,um not even just that, but just
our content, um, having morecontent out there for people,
easier to access for us, forways for people to get to us,
find us, um, and know what wedo.
Um, you know, I think we'vewe've done a lot um throughout
(08:54):
the year to kind of build thatbrand and build that name, but
at the same time, you know, it'sit's making sure everything else
aligns with it now that we'vedone that, put in that work um
to make sure our social mediaand everything more matches what
we're doing.
SPEAKER_01 (09:07):
Yeah.
Cool.
So uh just so um have somecontext on on the split, because
I know you're doing residentialand commercial.
What percentage are you doing ofof each as of overall revenue?
SPEAKER_02 (09:20):
Right now it's it's about 50-50.
Um commercial projects are a bitbigger.
Yeah.
I've heard some people that saythey don't like commercial.
Um I've heard some people thatsay they don't like new homes
either.
So um, you know, I think youjust as long as you have the
team in place and you knowyou're prepared for whatever the
task is, you know, and youestimate the job properly, you
should be should be good on it.
(09:41):
So there's pros and cons to allof it.
SPEAKER_01 (09:43):
Yeah.
And one of the big things thatfolks struggle with with
commercial, especially,especially working under GCs, is
the cash flow, becauseoftentimes, not all the time,
but a lot of times the paymentschedules aren't the best where
you'll have to pay your team,pay for the materials, and then
you get paid 30, 60, 90 days insome cases uh later.
(10:06):
Um is that something that you'vefaced and and what have you done
to address that?
SPEAKER_02 (10:12):
Yeah, definitely.
Um I think that should bedefinitely something you should
address when you first start theproject when working with the
new general contractor, is iswhat you know, what's their pay
scale or how often do they pay?
Um, so you don't get yourself ina bind like that.
But that's the reason we handlethe our residential work as
well, because your residentialsare typically going to pay as
soon as you're done with them.
So if you're doing enoughresidentials, you can that can
(10:33):
kind of carry the weight of theburden of waiting for those
bigger projects or or checkswhen they come in.
So that's kind of how we've, youknow, the same thing with kind
of doing the new homes.
The new homes are great, it'sconsistent through the through
the winter time, you know, whenyou may slow down a little bit.
Uh, but at the same time, youknow, they're longer projects,
they draw out a little bitlonger.
Um, so it's it's really like Isaid, just understanding your
(10:55):
numbers and not stretchingyourself too thin.
Yeah.
Um, you know, you that's themain thing is any business gotta
an owner has to know is is youknow, everything top to bottom,
you know, start to finish, timematerials, you know, what you're
paying out, um, versus what youryou know your burn rate is for
the one.
That's your total everythingthat you're spending versus
what's coming in.
So if you all know those things,you know, and starting, you
(11:17):
know, by myself and startingsmaller, I've seen us go from
one person to two people to 10people to 15 people, so plus an
estimator now, plus myself, plusan admin that works in the
office.
So, you know, you kind of knowwhat you have to add along the
way.
You know, I knew what I wasdoing per month, you know, what
I had to pay myself.
So to do that, you're basicallyjust doubling, tripling,
(11:37):
quadrupling what you had to doby yourself, um, you know, to
do, you know, to get to thosebigger numbers.
SPEAKER_01 (11:43):
So it sounds like you for cur to to to understand,
first you need to understandwhat you're getting into in
terms of the payment schedulesbefore you start working with a
GC.
And then it sounds like you'realso balancing the positive cash
flow that comes fromresidential.
You're kind of using that cashsometimes to help with the lack
of cash flow on the commercialside.
(12:04):
So when you're doing 50-50commercial residential, is that
a deliberate strategy?
Like you kind of want to keep itbalanced because of that cash
flow uh issues with commercial?
SPEAKER_02 (12:14):
Um, I wouldn't say so.
I don't think you need to.
I think if you're gonna switchover just to commercial, um, you
know, I think the way you uhyour project coordinators
should, you know, know how fastyou're turning those jobs versus
paydays and when that whenyou're gonna get paid for the
job once it's completed.
I think you could go eitherroute with it.
Um because it's not a necessity.
(12:36):
You don't have to have theresidentials coming in if you're
making money on your jobs as youshould all of them.
You don't have to.
It's just a way that, you know,if you are waiting on some of
those bigger projects, then Ithink you can.
And I think we have in the past.
So um it's not that we rely onit all the time, but it's
definitely, you know, somethingthat is definitely a necessity.
If you're have a small crew andthat's all they're working on is
(12:58):
one big project, or you have twocrews, you know, you gotta have
your smaller or your other crewworking on something where
you're gonna, you know, be ableto pay the bills.
SPEAKER_01 (13:05):
So yeah.
Okay.
Yeah, I know a lot of folks thatdo residential, commercial,
both, and they're doingsomething similar where they're
taking taking the deposit fromresidential and getting paid
quickly at the end of theproject.
And that really helps with thecash flow and commercial side
because you know sometimes it'snot the best.
You don't oftentimes get adeposit, and then you're having
(13:28):
to wait to get paid for thelarger project.
SPEAKER_02 (13:30):
So yeah, that's I think the biggest thing for that
is just clarity from your GCs.
Um, because we actually havesome GCs we work for that are
awesome.
I mean, they pay likeresidential customers, and when
you have GCs like that, I mean Ithink we all want to work for
more people like that.
So um, but as long as you knowthat and know your numbers, you
should be fine.
Cool.
SPEAKER_01 (13:47):
So you you talked about you know you've grown your
revenues significantly in thelast couple of years.
You talked about maintainingthose relationships with the
GCs, building that trust and uhbeing available to take care of
projects.
So you're getting more projects,I'm assuming, from them.
Um, and then you've talked aboutbranding presence, providing
proof and and content out there,I'm assuming more towards the
(14:10):
residential side, attracting uhhomeowners.
Are you doing just organicsocial media or are you also
doing paid ads on top of that?
SPEAKER_02 (14:20):
We don't run any paid, I guess they are paid ads
for sponsored.
Um, like I said, we let ourmarketing team handle that.
You know, we pay them, you know,whatever their fee is monthly.
Um, and they handle all of ourall of our ads, um, all of our
all of that stuff.
So yeah, I would say theythey're sponsored paid ads.
Um but yeah, just morefrequently, I think.
(14:43):
Um, and just myself in general,just being out there, you know,
utilizing you know the projectsthat we work on to get them out
there, put them out there onsocial media myself.
I continue to do what I do, butlet them handle it from the
professional side.
SPEAKER_01 (14:56):
Yeah.
And I'm assuming you youprobably have a pretty good
client list of prior customers.
So uh are you doing a lot ofrepeat referral type work?
SPEAKER_02 (15:06):
Because you We do a lot of repeat work and we also
do door hangers and things likethat.
That's something we uh we juststarted um this year, like I
said, when I hired theestimator.
So um he stays pretty busy forthe most part, but if he's just
in a neighborhood and has alittle bit of time between you
know stops, and he'll he'll justdoor to door for a half hour, 45
minutes, drop some door hangersout, knock on some doors and see
(15:28):
what he can do.
Um we've actually got a lot offeedback from that.
Um and like I said, littlethings.
I think there's some otherpeople out in the trades that
have started to do that and haveteams that are that are really
out there, put a lot a lot ofthought and logistics and and
numbers into figuring that out.
But um, I think um we alwaysjust try and do a little bit
something extra in the tradefrom what our other people
(15:50):
aren't doing.
Um I think our our mission hasalways been to raise the
standard of the painting trade,uh, whether it was one person or
15 people.
So you always the mission staysthe same.
So it's communication, branding,marketing, um, customer service,
whatever you're doing, the work,you know, it has to be a step
above what you know we think themarket is and better.
(16:11):
So I think that's helped us withour branding, it's helped us
with our growth and and so on.
SPEAKER_01 (16:17):
So what's the the number like since you've almost
about to double this year, um,what's the biggest uh marketing
push that's really paid off?
Uh has it been the relationshipwith the GCs?
Has it been the organic socialmedia, or has it been like the
canvassers you mentioned?
That's that's a a new thing forthis year.
What's been the biggest thing?
SPEAKER_02 (16:39):
The biggest, um man, it's it's our it's our estimator
as well, too, because he isreally hands-on um and just out
there in the community.
Um, you know, obviously socialmedia, um, obviously, um door to
door, all those things haveaffected equally.
I don't have an exact number onwhich one um has done has done
(17:00):
better, but it's really justbringing in more people and the
right person to, you know,believes in the trade and
believes in what he's doing asmuch as I do.
Um, and like I said, it's justthat additional face, that
additional person out theretalking to people, um,
discussing painting, everythingthat we do.
And it's it's meetings that hegoes to.
It's uh we have our like chamberof commerce here in town, and
(17:20):
he's you know, he's just outthere at every one of them.
But I would say um overall wouldbe the the door-to-door, and
social media has made thebiggest influence.
But like I said, having somebodythat fits that role well and is
good at talking to people, Idon't think anybody could do it
as well as he does it.
So I feel like we hired one ofthe best in the biz to do it.
SPEAKER_01 (17:39):
So yeah, that's that's a good point because I
mean, one key rock star, one keyhire can uh dramatically change
the business.
And sounds like he might be thatthat uh key hire made a huge
impact, um, which I think youknow um is important also for
kind of the constraint you havein your business right now, or
(18:01):
the bottleneck is really findingmore of those key people to to
unlock even more growth becauseyou're you're uh you're doubling
this year, but you're you're notyou're still not able to produce
all the work that you're andyou're having to turn some folks
away.
And so if you can you know getsome more of those key people
filled, I mean that's gonna blowyou up even more.
(18:23):
Um what sort of things have youdone or are you planning to do
to to find those key positionsthat are kind of that you need
to to to meet the demand thatyou're facing?
SPEAKER_02 (18:37):
I mean, really, we want to find younger people.
So we're reaching out to the thetrades.
We've done uh we went and talkedto the kids at school.
We're gonna be doing actually uhtalking to another, I've been
asked by another friend of mineto talk to some students.
So just getting younger peoplein the trade sooner.
Um we can find help.
It's not always the help wewant.
And I've learned in the trades,once you, you know, you go down
(18:59):
the road with somebody and it'snot you know the route you want,
we don't we don't offer them,you know, a position back, you
know.
Um, but I mean I would I thinkthat would probably be the
biggest struggle for us rightnow is just is knowing the right
path to go as far as that.
You know, we can we can reachout, we can put it out there on
social media.
Um we've got a few people comingthe door, but we don't we don't
(19:20):
put up with a lot.
We had a guy who was supposed tostart Monday and we had
communication with his old jobthat he was gonna give him a
week, and Monday he had umexcuses or reasons why he wasn't
gonna be here, and I told him tojust stick with his other job if
that's the way we were gonnastart, um, because he was
already trying to call in on thefirst day.
So um it's just hit and miss.
It's one of those things.
Um, you know, we get really goodpeople sometimes, and sometimes
(19:44):
you don't.
Um, but it's annoying not toreally get overwhelmed by that.
I mean, there's a time and aplace for everything, you know,
you're gonna get the rightpeople at the right time and the
right opportunities.
Um, don't stress yourself outover that, you know.
Um handle what you can on theday-to-day business.
Um, and like I said, people willwill fall into place just like
when we found Sam and the otherpeople.
(20:04):
Um when the time is right andthe person, you know, shows you
your door, you'll should knowyou gotta know it and pick the
person up.
So um, but like I said, we justdon't get in a hurry with the
people we hire.
We're very particular in ourbrand and what we're trying to
put out there.
Uh and you can't do that withjust pulling anybody off the
street.
I know some people go the thesub you know route.
Um, and that works for somepeople, more power to them.
(20:25):
Um, but our brand and and thework we're putting out is in
customer service, I feel likeyou kind of lose when you kind
of go that route.
Um so um, you know, we're youknow, I don't have that, I don't
have that answer.
I wish I did, yeah, be honest,because I would probably be
helping a few other paintingcontractors to be honest.
And I wish I did.
I guess I've been looking forthat answer, and I don't have
that answer.
But we've done social media, um,you know, we put it out there
(20:49):
myself, um, tried to offer, youknow, different things for for
people, but ultimately it's thepeople gotta want to work.
And we're in a um generation ofa bunch of people that I think
ultimately are are looking forthe the college route or the
easy route or you know, a way tofind a career without actually
working and whether you own thebusiness, you go to work for
somebody, you're gonna have towork either way.
SPEAKER_01 (21:12):
Yeah, I know I like what you said with you, you have
a high standard and you want tomake sure when you're bringing
on new folks that they meet thatstandard because to uphold the
brand image that you have.
I think that's super importantthat uh some people in your
position, they won't, they'll belike, I just need more people to
to produce this work, and thenthey their standards slip, and
then they they don't have asquality work, and and then it's
(21:35):
a negative feedback cycle, thenthey get less referrals, et
cetera.
Um, so I like how you're eventhough you you you are booked
out for several months, you'rehold holding that standard um
and and and trying to find theright people to put in the
organization.
Um and uh a lot of the folksthat I've worked with that have
had this exact same problem, theones that have unlocked this
(21:59):
problem, like fixed this issueof not having enough of a team,
is they started basicallytreating their hiring process
like their sales process, whereit's a very deliberate uh
process where they have like anindeed job post job ad, really
trying to attract folks.
They'll also have like areferral bonus to their current
(22:22):
team for like a pretty highreferral bonus for folks.
Uh if if if a current teammember says, hey, I found
somebody that can work, and andthat person ends up working out
over a 90-day period, they get abonus.
And not like a you know,$100bonus,$200 bonus, I'm talking
about thousands of dollarsbonus.
Because there's a formula that Ilearned that's I think helps
(22:46):
open up some of the uh, youknow, because I think I feel
like a lot of folks don't knowhow much to spend to get a new
hire.
Now, right now you're at umcoming up on three million, and
if you can but you're stillsuper booked out, if you can add
another million of revenue at a50% gross profit, let's say
(23:07):
that's uh$500,000.
If you just had, you know, uhthree additional painters, let's
say.
Three or four additionalpainters.
So how much are you willing tospend to get$500,000 in
additional gross profit, let'ssay?
Um yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (23:28):
So that's a good idea.
I actually like that referralprogram.
Um it's funny because mostpeople don't don't want to refer
people, um, unfortunately,because they don't want the the
kickback if something doesn'twork out.
Um but that you know if theyhave an incentive, um you know,
I I would definitely be willingto pay a thousand, two thousand
dollars um for a good employee.
(23:49):
So um I think we all know, youknow, everybody knows the value
of what an employee could bringor for your business.
So um version versus yourmarket.
So I'd definitely definitely beopen to spending a few thousand
dollars.
SPEAKER_01 (24:02):
So plus uh it it gives buy-in because if you if
someone refers somebody and theyget, let's say, three thousand
dollars at at the end of 90 oruh whatever, however many days,
um then they're bought into thatperson's success.
So they have to make sure thatthey're gonna try to do what
they can to make sure thatthey're successful so that they
(24:23):
can get that$3,000 bonus orwhatever.
Um, so it's all one, it gets youmore candidates that come in,
and then two, it makes theirlikelihood for success higher
because your current teammembers are or at least one of
them is bought into making surethey stick around for at least a
few months.
Um but uh yeah, so that's areally good uh thing that I've
(24:46):
seen work uh to get morecandidates coming in.
But just just knowing like ifyou can get an additional
painter that gives you anadditional$100,000 in gross
profit and increases the amountof money that you might be
willing to spend, um, because Iwould say 5%.
So if you if you're gonna get aone additional painter brings in
an extra$100,000 in gross profitover the lifetime of that
(25:09):
employee, say on average yourpainters stick around for two
years and they're gonna bring in$100,000, probably should be
willing to spend like$5,000 orso on that person.
Um, and so that gives you morepermission to spend more money
to acquire those.
Because it makes sense, becauseif you can, like we said, like
if you can grow another millionin revenue because you have an
(25:31):
additional crew or two, um, thatcould that could you know really
solve your problem.
SPEAKER_02 (25:39):
Yeah, yeah.
I'm definitely definitelylooking at that.
That's a good idea.
Because that's yeah, I thinkthat's uh I think that's the
most problem that all of us aredealing with right now is is you
know just finding the help andgetting people in here.
But like I said, I've I thinkthat's always why, you know, I
think I said we always like toshow that we've grown and do so
much so fast.
But um I think that's why we'vekind of grown naturally and
(26:02):
organically.
Um a lot of it is like I said,it's part of really building
your brand and being you know,meticulous in who you hire, uh,
because that'll solve a lot ofthose problems for you.
Once you have good processes,good people, you know, there's
days I don't even have to comeinto the office.
I can work from my home, workfrom home, um, take care of my
son or do whatever I have to dobecause we do have enough
(26:23):
processes in place.
So um it's just uh and then likeyou said, we've heard we've
heard the downside of otherlocal companies that you know
they're too big for the bridgesor you want to heard that.
And and they we were hearing itfrom you know, customers that
they weren't happy with thepeople they were sending out.
Um basically the ultimately thethe final goal, the service, uh,
(26:44):
the experience they just weren'thappy with.
So, you know, that's you know,one thing we've you know, I know
you can you can combine yourselfthat way too, growing too fast.
So, you know, obviously we wouldwe would love to, but you know,
we'll have to definitely get inthose markets and try and find
some people or get a position.
SPEAKER_01 (27:01):
Awesome job.
Awesome, Chad.
Well, I think you're doingawesome things over there in
Indiana.
I really appreciate you beingsuper generous with your time
today.
Um, do you have any lastthoughts for maybe PN business
owner that's you know strugglingto grow their business?
Maybe they're you know stagnant,maybe they're suffering from uh
trying to figure out what to doto grow their business.
(27:23):
Do you have any thoughts on onwhat they should focus on to get
them to the next level?
SPEAKER_02 (27:28):
Um just stick to your mission, stick to where
your goal is, why do you gotinto the trade?
Um obviously I think if you gotinto it, you know, you were
there was a need for something,whether it's customer service or
paying, whatever it is.
So um just focus on you know thepositives and what you can
control daily.
Um don't get you know, it's aroller coaster owning business.
So, you know, just don't letdon't get too high, don't get
(27:49):
too low.
Um and just stay persistent,consistent with what you're
doing, stay positive.
Mindset is a lot of a lot ofthis stuff.
So uh if you just come in withan eager, positive attitude
every day, you know, like Isaid, give give a lot to the
world, give more to the worldthan you take, I think you'll be
just fine.
So you give your employees thebest effort, your customers the
best effort, um, and everythingyou can do, and I think you'll
(28:12):
it'll work itself out.
But stay positive and uh like Isaid, just don't get too high or
too low, just ride that wave andyou know, enjoy it.
SPEAKER_01 (28:21):
Wise words.
I appreciate it, Chad.
And for all our listeners, withthat, we will see you next week.
SPEAKER_02 (28:27):
I appreciate it, Daniel.
Appreciate you having me, buddy.
Welcome to the Profitable Painter Podcast.
The mission of this podcast issimple: to help you navigate the
financial and tax aspects ofstarting, running, and scaling a
professional painting business.
From the brushes and ladders tothe spreadsheets and balance
sheets, we've got you covered.
But before we dive in, a quickword of caution.
While we strive to provideaccurate and up-to-date
financial and tax information,nothing you hear on this podcast
(00:22):
should be considered asfinancial advice, specifically
for you or your business.
We're here to share generalknowledge and experiences, not
to replace the tailored adviceyou get from a professional
financial advisor or taxconsultant.
We strongly recommend youseeking individualized advice
before making any significantfinancial decision.
SPEAKER_01 (00:45):
Welcome to the Profitable Painter Podcast, the
show where painting contractorslearn how to boost profits, cut
taxes, and build a business thatworks for them.
I'm your host, Daniel Honan, CPAand former painting business
owner in your guide to masteringthe numbers that drive success.
So let's dive in and make yourbusiness more profitable one
episode at a time.
Super excited today to talk toChad Turpin out of Indiana.
(01:05):
He has a great painting businessout of Indiana.
How's it going today, Chad?
SPEAKER_02 (01:09):
Good, man.
Appreciate you having me on.
SPEAKER_01 (01:11):
Awesome.
I'm super excited to jump intothings.
So if you could give thelisteners kind of an idea of,
you know, how did you getstarted in the painting
industry?
What's been your journey alongthe way, maybe with some major
milestones?
SPEAKER_02 (01:23):
Got into the industry, joined a union company
in my early 20s.
Um, got out of the uh industryafter about four or five years,
um, just due to uh where theeconomy was, um, took some time,
um, went back to school myselfand was just needing people I
found out were still needingpainting.
So um, I was going to schoolfull-time, um, working full
(01:45):
time, and uh really one of themwas just gonna start to suffer.
And we were doing pretty goodwith the painting.
So talked to my counselor atschool, walked away from uh
school after his advice, and uhstarted a painting business 15
yeah years later.
Here we are.
So um yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (02:00):
So you've been in the game for a while.
SPEAKER_02 (02:02):
A little bit, a little bit now.
So uh weren't too big when wefirst started, and I honestly
wasn't even uh worried aboutgrowing at that point.
I was focused on just kind ofliving my life and and kind of
having the freedom that I ownthe business, um, you know, that
you get with own the business.
So um the first four or fiveyears we were, you know, kind of
me, myself, and I with a couplepeople, and then um some
(02:23):
fortunate events with uh umhurting my back myself and doing
too many things and um trying towant to scale and times to step
out of that position and reachuh start step out and let other
guys do the painting and thingslike that.
SPEAKER_01 (02:36):
Okay.
So you actually started it wasmore out of necessity, really,
to grow because you you werehurt.
And then so you're like, I needto hire painters to actually do
the work because right now I'mnot able.
Is that right?
SPEAKER_02 (02:49):
Right, yeah, yeah.
It's a lot of it's happenedorganically.
We've done a lot of things too.
Um, obviously, you know, havingthe right uh practices, doing
good jobs, um, you know, doingwhat, you know, fulfilling, you
know, being ready whenopportunities come and uh taking
advantage of those really umwhen given opportunities.
Um it's just really it helped usscale and and you know get to
(03:10):
where we're at now.
But yeah, I mean, obviously somemarketing, some advertising, and
knowing what you're doing,knowing your numbers, um,
knowing all those things, I'mobviously helping what you're
doing too as well.
SPEAKER_01 (03:20):
Okay.
And and so after, you know, thatthe first five years uh um you
were kind of just working on thejob site with a small team, then
you got hurt, you um got somepainters to start working, you
know, actually doing the jobs.
Uh and so the last 10 yearsyou've actually been grow kind
of more deliberately growing.
(03:41):
Is that fair to say?
SPEAKER_02 (03:42):
Oh, yeah, definitely.
I mean, definitely.
We've been trying, uh pushingmore in the last five years,
really, uh, with things I thinkthat we've done better um as far
as social media, marketing, andadvertising.
But um, I think it all goes handin hand with your branding um
and and just being ready whenthe time comes.
Like I said, knowing yournumbers, um, knowing your
(04:02):
market, um, knowing your team,uh, all those things kind of
factor in and have to reallycome together for you to to
scale and reach that point.
SPEAKER_01 (04:10):
Okay.
And just to so we have morecontext, how how large, how much
revenue are you guys doing?
Like how large your large isyour team at this point?
SPEAKER_02 (04:18):
Right now we have 15 painters.
Um, we're looking at doing about2.5, 3 million this year.
Last year we were looking, wefinished about 1.5.
Um the year before that, we werea little slower um growth.
I think we were about uh one toone 1.2.
Um but the numbers kind ofjumped.
When we first started, we wereat, you know, I think my first
(04:39):
year I did 60,000 by myself,then it jumped to 120, then it
jumped to 240, you know, 350,500, and so on.
Um but I think a big part of itum is like I said, your
branding, your marketing, andeverything has to align.
You got to have the people um inplace to be able to do their
jobs.
We all want to jump really fastand have these big, huge jumps
(05:02):
and these really big numbers.
Um, but if you don't have thepeople in place uh to do that,
you obviously could have somesetbacks and running some
problems that way.
SPEAKER_01 (05:10):
Yeah.
So really incredible growth fromlast year to this year.
So like you're 1.5 last year,this year you're on track to
potentially double, like rightaround double.
Yeah.
Which is it's easier to do thatwhen you're smaller, but when
you you know 1.5 to 3 million,that's a big jump, really quite
(05:31):
really quick.
SPEAKER_03 (05:33):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (05:33):
Um, what what do you think allowed you to do that big
jump?
What did you have in place uh tomake that such a big jump so
quickly?
SPEAKER_02 (05:43):
Um well, obviously we knew we needed more painters,
um, but myself really juststepping back, um, and I knew I
was gonna have to step away fromdoing estimates.
I couldn't be estimator, projectmanager, um, and organizer, you
know, what's going on at theshop and all these things.
So once we hired an estimator,um he does all the everything
that comes in, whether it's uhcommercial or residential.
(06:06):
Um, but I will help on somecommercial ones still with um
some existing contracts that wealready have.
So I do still help with some ofthose and do some of those for
him.
But um hiring him has been huge.
So um we're even looking athiring another one just after
getting him going out the waythis year's went.
Um in the way we've kind of beenable to kind of drive drive our
our our time out that you knowthat people can get to us.
(06:29):
We like to keep it about two orthree months.
Um, and we've kind of hit thatwall where you know, three
months, three, three and a halfmonths is kind of as far as
people like to wait.
Um the first time we've reallyreally ran into that problem
where you know we've actuallylost a couple of customers
because they're just not willingto wait that amount of time.
So yeah, um, at that point intime, we need painters, and you
know, and I think that's anotherpart that's that's been our
(06:51):
problem of growing and gettingeven you know higher this year.
I mean, I think if we couldhave, you know, got a little
higher as far as the paintersthat we had and got you know
some more guys in here, I thinkwe could definitely turn a
higher number.
But I think that's the problemwith most uh contractors across
the nation, not even just inpainting, but in in uh in
general is finding the guys.
And that's what we're trying totalk to now as younger
(07:11):
generations and trades and tradeschools and get them in the door
and get them started.
SPEAKER_01 (07:15):
So yeah.
Yeah, it's definitely a commontheme over the last couple of
years, folks.
It sounds like the constraint ofyour business is actually having
the team to produce the workbecause you your demand, uh,
even now, you're it sounds likeyou're booked out several
months, even though you doubledyour revenue.
Um your your your constraintisn't enough having enough work.
(07:39):
It's really just having enoughpainters and of a team to
produce the work.
Is that fair to say?
SPEAKER_02 (07:44):
Definitely.
SPEAKER_01 (07:45):
Okay.
That's that's that's well, it'sa great problem to have.
I mean, it's a definitely aproblem, but it's you know, a
lot of folks struggle with thegetting the leads piece, but it
sounds like you guys have thatfigured out.
So, what what have you beendoing from a marketing
perspective, especially in thelast year or two or three?
Um, what have you figured outthat's just been able to get as
(08:08):
much work as you can handle?
SPEAKER_02 (08:10):
Um, well, I mean, it's it's been a combination.
We've built relationships withother contractors and general
contractors throughout theyears, um, which, like I said,
when you're ready and you'regiven a job, you're given an
opportunity, and you take careof it and you know, and really
grab a hold of it, and um, youknow, they're gonna keep coming
back to you.
So organically um building theserelationships, but also um with
(08:30):
just our presence um across theboard with social media, um just
showing more before and afters,um not even just that, but just
our content, um, having morecontent out there for people,
easier to access for us, forways for people to get to us,
find us, um, and know what wedo.
Um, you know, I think we'vewe've done a lot um throughout
(08:54):
the year to kind of build thatbrand and build that name, but
at the same time, you know, it'sit's making sure everything else
aligns with it now that we'vedone that, put in that work um
to make sure our social mediaand everything more matches what
we're doing.
SPEAKER_01 (09:07):
Yeah.
Cool.
So uh just so um have somecontext on on the split, because
I know you're doing residentialand commercial.
What percentage are you doing ofof each as of overall revenue?
SPEAKER_02 (09:20):
Right now it's it's about 50-50.
Um commercial projects are a bitbigger.
Yeah.
I've heard some people that saythey don't like commercial.
Um I've heard some people thatsay they don't like new homes
either.
So um, you know, I think youjust as long as you have the
team in place and you knowyou're prepared for whatever the
task is, you know, and youestimate the job properly, you
should be should be good on it.
(09:41):
So there's pros and cons to allof it.
SPEAKER_01 (09:43):
Yeah.
And one of the big things thatfolks struggle with with
commercial, especially,especially working under GCs, is
the cash flow, becauseoftentimes, not all the time,
but a lot of times the paymentschedules aren't the best where
you'll have to pay your team,pay for the materials, and then
you get paid 30, 60, 90 days insome cases uh later.
(10:06):
Um is that something that you'vefaced and and what have you done
to address that?
SPEAKER_02 (10:12):
Yeah, definitely.
Um I think that should bedefinitely something you should
address when you first start theproject when working with the
new general contractor, is iswhat you know, what's their pay
scale or how often do they pay?
Um, so you don't get yourself ina bind like that.
But that's the reason we handlethe our residential work as
well, because your residentialsare typically going to pay as
soon as you're done with them.
So if you're doing enoughresidentials, you can that can
(10:33):
kind of carry the weight of theburden of waiting for those
bigger projects or or checkswhen they come in.
So that's kind of how we've, youknow, the same thing with kind
of doing the new homes.
The new homes are great, it'sconsistent through the through
the winter time, you know, whenyou may slow down a little bit.
Uh, but at the same time, youknow, they're longer projects,
they draw out a little bitlonger.
Um, so it's it's really like Isaid, just understanding your
(10:55):
numbers and not stretchingyourself too thin.
Yeah.
Um, you know, you that's themain thing is any business gotta
an owner has to know is is youknow, everything top to bottom,
you know, start to finish, timematerials, you know, what you're
paying out, um, versus what youryou know your burn rate is for
the one.
That's your total everythingthat you're spending versus
what's coming in.
So if you all know those things,you know, and starting, you
(11:17):
know, by myself and startingsmaller, I've seen us go from
one person to two people to 10people to 15 people, so plus an
estimator now, plus myself, plusan admin that works in the
office.
So, you know, you kind of knowwhat you have to add along the
way.
You know, I knew what I wasdoing per month, you know, what
I had to pay myself.
So to do that, you're basicallyjust doubling, tripling,
(11:37):
quadrupling what you had to doby yourself, um, you know, to
do, you know, to get to thosebigger numbers.
SPEAKER_01 (11:43):
So it sounds like you for cur to to to understand,
first you need to understandwhat you're getting into in
terms of the payment schedulesbefore you start working with a
GC.
And then it sounds like you'realso balancing the positive cash
flow that comes fromresidential.
You're kind of using that cashsometimes to help with the lack
of cash flow on the commercialside.
(12:04):
So when you're doing 50-50commercial residential, is that
a deliberate strategy?
Like you kind of want to keep itbalanced because of that cash
flow uh issues with commercial?
SPEAKER_02 (12:14):
Um, I wouldn't say so.
I don't think you need to.
I think if you're gonna switchover just to commercial, um, you
know, I think the way you uhyour project coordinators
should, you know, know how fastyou're turning those jobs versus
paydays and when that whenyou're gonna get paid for the
job once it's completed.
I think you could go eitherroute with it.
Um because it's not a necessity.
(12:36):
You don't have to have theresidentials coming in if you're
making money on your jobs as youshould all of them.
You don't have to.
It's just a way that, you know,if you are waiting on some of
those bigger projects, then Ithink you can.
And I think we have in the past.
So um it's not that we rely onit all the time, but it's
definitely, you know, somethingthat is definitely a necessity.
If you're have a small crew andthat's all they're working on is
(12:58):
one big project, or you have twocrews, you know, you gotta have
your smaller or your other crewworking on something where
you're gonna, you know, be ableto pay the bills.
SPEAKER_01 (13:05):
So yeah.
Okay.
Yeah, I know a lot of folks thatdo residential, commercial,
both, and they're doingsomething similar where they're
taking taking the deposit fromresidential and getting paid
quickly at the end of theproject.
And that really helps with thecash flow and commercial side
because you know sometimes it'snot the best.
You don't oftentimes get adeposit, and then you're having
(13:28):
to wait to get paid for thelarger project.
SPEAKER_02 (13:30):
So yeah, that's I think the biggest thing for that
is just clarity from your GCs.
Um, because we actually havesome GCs we work for that are
awesome.
I mean, they pay likeresidential customers, and when
you have GCs like that, I mean Ithink we all want to work for
more people like that.
So um, but as long as you knowthat and know your numbers, you
should be fine.
Cool.
SPEAKER_01 (13:47):
So you you talked about you know you've grown your
revenues significantly in thelast couple of years.
You talked about maintainingthose relationships with the
GCs, building that trust and uhbeing available to take care of
projects.
So you're getting more projects,I'm assuming, from them.
Um, and then you've talked aboutbranding presence, providing
proof and and content out there,I'm assuming more towards the
(14:10):
residential side, attracting uhhomeowners.
Are you doing just organicsocial media or are you also
doing paid ads on top of that?
SPEAKER_02 (14:20):
We don't run any paid, I guess they are paid ads
for sponsored.
Um, like I said, we let ourmarketing team handle that.
You know, we pay them, you know,whatever their fee is monthly.
Um, and they handle all of ourall of our ads, um, all of our
all of that stuff.
So yeah, I would say theythey're sponsored paid ads.
Um but yeah, just morefrequently, I think.
(14:43):
Um, and just myself in general,just being out there, you know,
utilizing you know the projectsthat we work on to get them out
there, put them out there onsocial media myself.
I continue to do what I do, butlet them handle it from the
professional side.
SPEAKER_01 (14:56):
Yeah.
And I'm assuming you youprobably have a pretty good
client list of prior customers.
So uh are you doing a lot ofrepeat referral type work?
SPEAKER_02 (15:06):
Because you We do a lot of repeat work and we also
do door hangers and things likethat.
That's something we uh we juststarted um this year, like I
said, when I hired theestimator.
So um he stays pretty busy forthe most part, but if he's just
in a neighborhood and has alittle bit of time between you
know stops, and he'll he'll justdoor to door for a half hour, 45
minutes, drop some door hangersout, knock on some doors and see
(15:28):
what he can do.
Um we've actually got a lot offeedback from that.
Um and like I said, littlethings.
I think there's some otherpeople out in the trades that
have started to do that and haveteams that are that are really
out there, put a lot a lot ofthought and logistics and and
numbers into figuring that out.
But um, I think um we alwaysjust try and do a little bit
something extra in the tradefrom what our other people
(15:50):
aren't doing.
Um I think our our mission hasalways been to raise the
standard of the painting trade,uh, whether it was one person or
15 people.
So you always the mission staysthe same.
So it's communication, branding,marketing, um, customer service,
whatever you're doing, the work,you know, it has to be a step
above what you know we think themarket is and better.
(16:11):
So I think that's helped us withour branding, it's helped us
with our growth and and so on.
SPEAKER_01 (16:17):
So what's the the number like since you've almost
about to double this year, um,what's the biggest uh marketing
push that's really paid off?
Uh has it been the relationshipwith the GCs?
Has it been the organic socialmedia, or has it been like the
canvassers you mentioned?
That's that's a a new thing forthis year.
What's been the biggest thing?
SPEAKER_02 (16:39):
The biggest, um man, it's it's our it's our estimator
as well, too, because he isreally hands-on um and just out
there in the community.
Um, you know, obviously socialmedia, um, obviously, um door to
door, all those things haveaffected equally.
I don't have an exact number onwhich one um has done has done
(17:00):
better, but it's really justbringing in more people and the
right person to, you know,believes in the trade and
believes in what he's doing asmuch as I do.
Um, and like I said, it's justthat additional face, that
additional person out theretalking to people, um,
discussing painting, everythingthat we do.
And it's it's meetings that hegoes to.
It's uh we have our like chamberof commerce here in town, and
(17:20):
he's you know, he's just outthere at every one of them.
But I would say um overall wouldbe the the door-to-door, and
social media has made thebiggest influence.
But like I said, having somebodythat fits that role well and is
good at talking to people, Idon't think anybody could do it
as well as he does it.
So I feel like we hired one ofthe best in the biz to do it.
SPEAKER_01 (17:39):
So yeah, that's that's a good point because I
mean, one key rock star, one keyhire can uh dramatically change
the business.
And sounds like he might be thatthat uh key hire made a huge
impact, um, which I think youknow um is important also for
kind of the constraint you havein your business right now, or
(18:01):
the bottleneck is really findingmore of those key people to to
unlock even more growth becauseyou're you're uh you're doubling
this year, but you're you're notyou're still not able to produce
all the work that you're andyou're having to turn some folks
away.
And so if you can you know getsome more of those key people
filled, I mean that's gonna blowyou up even more.
(18:23):
Um what sort of things have youdone or are you planning to do
to to find those key positionsthat are kind of that you need
to to to meet the demand thatyou're facing?
SPEAKER_02 (18:37):
I mean, really, we want to find younger people.
So we're reaching out to the thetrades.
We've done uh we went and talkedto the kids at school.
We're gonna be doing actually uhtalking to another, I've been
asked by another friend of mineto talk to some students.
So just getting younger peoplein the trade sooner.
Um we can find help.
It's not always the help wewant.
And I've learned in the trades,once you, you know, you go down
(18:59):
the road with somebody and it'snot you know the route you want,
we don't we don't offer them,you know, a position back, you
know.
Um, but I mean I would I thinkthat would probably be the
biggest struggle for us rightnow is just is knowing the right
path to go as far as that.
You know, we can we can reachout, we can put it out there on
social media.
Um we've got a few people comingthe door, but we don't we don't
(19:20):
put up with a lot.
We had a guy who was supposed tostart Monday and we had
communication with his old jobthat he was gonna give him a
week, and Monday he had umexcuses or reasons why he wasn't
gonna be here, and I told him tojust stick with his other job if
that's the way we were gonnastart, um, because he was
already trying to call in on thefirst day.
So um it's just hit and miss.
It's one of those things.
Um, you know, we get really goodpeople sometimes, and sometimes
(19:44):
you don't.
Um, but it's annoying not toreally get overwhelmed by that.
I mean, there's a time and aplace for everything, you know,
you're gonna get the rightpeople at the right time and the
right opportunities.
Um, don't stress yourself outover that, you know.
Um handle what you can on theday-to-day business.
Um, and like I said, people willwill fall into place just like
when we found Sam and the otherpeople.
(20:04):
Um when the time is right andthe person, you know, shows you
your door, you'll should knowyou gotta know it and pick the
person up.
So um, but like I said, we justdon't get in a hurry with the
people we hire.
We're very particular in ourbrand and what we're trying to
put out there.
Uh and you can't do that withjust pulling anybody off the
street.
I know some people go the thesub you know route.
Um, and that works for somepeople, more power to them.
(20:25):
Um, but our brand and and thework we're putting out is in
customer service, I feel likeyou kind of lose when you kind
of go that route.
Um so um, you know, we're youknow, I don't have that, I don't
have that answer.
I wish I did, yeah, be honest,because I would probably be
helping a few other paintingcontractors to be honest.
And I wish I did.
I guess I've been looking forthat answer, and I don't have
that answer.
But we've done social media, um,you know, we put it out there
(20:49):
myself, um, tried to offer, youknow, different things for for
people, but ultimately it's thepeople gotta want to work.
And we're in a um generation ofa bunch of people that I think
ultimately are are looking forthe the college route or the
easy route or you know, a way tofind a career without actually
working and whether you own thebusiness, you go to work for
somebody, you're gonna have towork either way.
SPEAKER_01 (21:12):
Yeah, I know I like what you said with you, you have
a high standard and you want tomake sure when you're bringing
on new folks that they meet thatstandard because to uphold the
brand image that you have.
I think that's super importantthat uh some people in your
position, they won't, they'll belike, I just need more people to
to produce this work, and thenthey their standards slip, and
then they they don't have asquality work, and and then it's
(21:35):
a negative feedback cycle, thenthey get less referrals, et
cetera.
Um, so I like how you're eventhough you you you are booked
out for several months, you'rehold holding that standard um
and and and trying to find theright people to put in the
organization.
Um and uh a lot of the folksthat I've worked with that have
had this exact same problem, theones that have unlocked this
(21:59):
problem, like fixed this issueof not having enough of a team,
is they started basicallytreating their hiring process
like their sales process, whereit's a very deliberate uh
process where they have like anindeed job post job ad, really
trying to attract folks.
They'll also have like areferral bonus to their current
(22:22):
team for like a pretty highreferral bonus for folks.
Uh if if if a current teammember says, hey, I found
somebody that can work, and andthat person ends up working out
over a 90-day period, they get abonus.
And not like a you know,$100bonus,$200 bonus, I'm talking
about thousands of dollarsbonus.
Because there's a formula that Ilearned that's I think helps
(22:46):
open up some of the uh, youknow, because I think I feel
like a lot of folks don't knowhow much to spend to get a new
hire.
Now, right now you're at umcoming up on three million, and
if you can but you're stillsuper booked out, if you can add
another million of revenue at a50% gross profit, let's say
(23:07):
that's uh$500,000.
If you just had, you know, uhthree additional painters, let's
say.
Three or four additionalpainters.
So how much are you willing tospend to get$500,000 in
additional gross profit, let'ssay?
Um yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (23:28):
So that's a good idea.
I actually like that referralprogram.
Um it's funny because mostpeople don't don't want to refer
people, um, unfortunately,because they don't want the the
kickback if something doesn'twork out.
Um but that you know if theyhave an incentive, um you know,
I I would definitely be willingto pay a thousand, two thousand
dollars um for a good employee.
(23:49):
So um I think we all know, youknow, everybody knows the value
of what an employee could bringor for your business.
So um version versus yourmarket.
So I'd definitely definitely beopen to spending a few thousand
dollars.
SPEAKER_01 (24:02):
So plus uh it it gives buy-in because if you if
someone refers somebody and theyget, let's say, three thousand
dollars at at the end of 90 oruh whatever, however many days,
um then they're bought into thatperson's success.
So they have to make sure thatthey're gonna try to do what
they can to make sure thatthey're successful so that they
(24:23):
can get that$3,000 bonus orwhatever.
Um, so it's all one, it gets youmore candidates that come in,
and then two, it makes theirlikelihood for success higher
because your current teammembers are or at least one of
them is bought into making surethey stick around for at least a
few months.
Um but uh yeah, so that's areally good uh thing that I've
(24:46):
seen work uh to get morecandidates coming in.
But just just knowing like ifyou can get an additional
painter that gives you anadditional$100,000 in gross
profit and increases the amountof money that you might be
willing to spend, um, because Iwould say 5%.
So if you if you're gonna get aone additional painter brings in
an extra$100,000 in gross profitover the lifetime of that
(25:09):
employee, say on average yourpainters stick around for two
years and they're gonna bring in$100,000, probably should be
willing to spend like$5,000 orso on that person.
Um, and so that gives you morepermission to spend more money
to acquire those.
Because it makes sense, becauseif you can, like we said, like
if you can grow another millionin revenue because you have an
(25:31):
additional crew or two, um, thatcould that could you know really
solve your problem.
SPEAKER_02 (25:39):
Yeah, yeah.
I'm definitely definitelylooking at that.
That's a good idea.
Because that's yeah, I thinkthat's uh I think that's the
most problem that all of us aredealing with right now is is you
know just finding the help andgetting people in here.
But like I said, I've I thinkthat's always why, you know, I
think I said we always like toshow that we've grown and do so
much so fast.
But um I think that's why we'vekind of grown naturally and
(26:02):
organically.
Um a lot of it is like I said,it's part of really building
your brand and being you know,meticulous in who you hire, uh,
because that'll solve a lot ofthose problems for you.
Once you have good processes,good people, you know, there's
days I don't even have to comeinto the office.
I can work from my home, workfrom home, um, take care of my
son or do whatever I have to dobecause we do have enough
(26:23):
processes in place.
So um it's just uh and then likeyou said, we've heard we've
heard the downside of otherlocal companies that you know
they're too big for the bridgesor you want to heard that.
And and they we were hearing itfrom you know, customers that
they weren't happy with thepeople they were sending out.
Um basically the ultimately thethe final goal, the service, uh,
(26:44):
the experience they just weren'thappy with.
So, you know, that's you know,one thing we've you know, I know
you can you can combine yourselfthat way too, growing too fast.
So, you know, obviously we wouldwe would love to, but you know,
we'll have to definitely get inthose markets and try and find
some people or get a position.
SPEAKER_01 (27:01):
Awesome job.
Awesome, Chad.
Well, I think you're doingawesome things over there in
Indiana.
I really appreciate you beingsuper generous with your time
today.
Um, do you have any lastthoughts for maybe PN business
owner that's you know strugglingto grow their business?
Maybe they're you know stagnant,maybe they're suffering from uh
trying to figure out what to doto grow their business.
(27:23):
Do you have any thoughts on onwhat they should focus on to get
them to the next level?
SPEAKER_02 (27:28):
Um just stick to your mission, stick to where
your goal is, why do you gotinto the trade?
Um obviously I think if you gotinto it, you know, you were
there was a need for something,whether it's customer service or
paying, whatever it is.
So um just focus on you know thepositives and what you can
control daily.
Um don't get you know, it's aroller coaster owning business.
So, you know, just don't letdon't get too high, don't get
(27:49):
too low.
Um and just stay persistent,consistent with what you're
doing, stay positive.
Mindset is a lot of a lot ofthis stuff.
So uh if you just come in withan eager, positive attitude
every day, you know, like Isaid, give give a lot to the
world, give more to the worldthan you take, I think you'll be
just fine.
So you give your employees thebest effort, your customers the
best effort, um, and everythingyou can do, and I think you'll
(28:12):
it'll work itself out.
But stay positive and uh like Isaid, just don't get too high or
too low, just ride that wave andyou know, enjoy it.
SPEAKER_01 (28:21):
Wise words.
I appreciate it, Chad.
And for all our listeners, withthat, we will see you next week.
SPEAKER_02 (28:27):
I appreciate it, Daniel.
Appreciate you having me, buddy.
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