August 15, 2025 • 40 mins
In this episode, Daniel sits down with Gabriel Gore, a successful painting business owner with nearly 20 years of experience. Gabriel shares his incredible journey from starting with no industry knowledge to running a multi-location, multi-million-dollar operation. Learn key insights on:
- Scaling past the $3 million revenue barrier and overcoming common growth plateaus.
- The power of core values and how they shape hiring, retention, and company culture.
- Sales and marketing strategies that allow you to charge premium prices (30–50% higher than competitors!).
- Team leadership, why loving and investing in your people is the ultimate multiplier for success.
Whether you’re just starting out or looking to take your painting business to the next level, Gabriel’s story and actionable advice will inspire and equip you to build a more profitable, sustainable, and impactful company.
Tune in, take notes, and let’s grow your business, one episode at a time.
Subscribe now for more expert insights and real-world lessons from the painting industry’s top performers!
Do you want to learn more about Bookkeeping For Painters? Click Here: www.bookkeepingforpainters.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Profitable Painter Podcast.
The mission of this podcast issimple to help you navigate the
financial and tax aspects ofstarting, running and scaling a
professional painting business,from the brushes and ladders to
the spreadsheets and balancesheets.
We've got you covered.
But before we dive in, a quickword of caution.
While we strive to provideaccurate and up-to-date
financial and tax information,nothing you hear on this podcast
(00:22):
should be considered asfinancial advice specifically,
and tax information.
Nothing you hear on thispodcast should be considered as
financial advice specificallyfor you or your business.
We're here to share generalknowledge and experiences, not
to replace the tailored advice.
Welcome to the ProfitablePainter Podcast, the show where
painting contractors learn howto boost profits, cut taxes and
build a business that works forthem.
I'm your host, Daniel Honan,cpa and former painting business
owner, and your guide tomastering the numbers that drive
(00:45):
success.
So let's dive in and make yourbusiness more profitable, one
episode at a time.
Today, I'm super excited tohave Gabriel Gore here.
He has an amazing business upin Virginia and he's here today
to discuss that.
Welcome to the podcast, gabriel.
How's it going?
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Going great.
Daniel man, thank you so muchfor having me on here.
Really appreciate it and justthankful to be here and be able
to tell our story and talk withyou.
It's an honor.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Yes, I'm excited.
I know you got some big thingsgoing up there and I'd love to
dive in Just to give theaudience context to where you're
coming from.
If you could just talk abouthow did you get started in the
painting industry, what's beenyour journey and what have been
some major milestones along theway.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Yeah, because I like to talk.
I ramble on.
So if you need to cut me short,feel free to cut me short and
if you need, you'll probablyneed to remind me of those
follow up questions too.
Be short and if you need,you'll probably need to remind
me of those follow-up questionstoo.
But I love telling how westarted because I think that for
the most part, everybody in ourindustry most of them start
(01:55):
around the same type of way.
Mine might have a little tweakhere or there, but we're all
looking for some freedom and tobe able to do things the way
that we see fit.
We're all looking for somefreedom and to be able to do
things the way that we see fit.
So to start with mine, I wasworking at my church, worked
there for four years, and thepastor said to me one day he
said, hey, we need to take alittle bit of a break here, and
(02:16):
the church wasn't financiallydoing the best, and so I said no
problem.
He said how about we go a yearand at the end of the year you
come back and and we'll see ifthis is something that we can
continue to do?
And so then he asked me sit inhis office.
He said what are you going todo for the year?
And I said I don't know.
(02:37):
I'll start a painting company.
And that's literally how itstarted.
He chuckled my youth pastorchuckled when he first heard
about it my old youth pastor hesaid.
He said you don't even likepainting when we have to paint
around the church and you'regoing to start a painting
company.
But I really didn't.
What it came down to was Ididn't really want to go
somewhere and have somebody pourinvestment and time into me,
(03:01):
teaching me something, because Iwas certain that I was going to
go back and work for the churchat the end of that year and
that didn't end up happening.
And so we're in our 19th yearright now and I've been doing it
ever since.
So I had no past experience.
I'd never done anythingprofessionally.
When I started the company Ididn't even know there was
(03:23):
different size of roller naps.
So it was very in fact.
I remember the day I wasactually contracted to do some
painting at the church and alady came in.
I was painting cinder block.
I was painting each line aroundthe cinder block because my
roller cover wouldn't go intothe divot in there where the
(03:44):
mortar lines are.
And she came in she said youknow, they sell different size
roller naps for that.
So I was educated by differentpieces, a lot of
Sherwin-Williams, a lot of timessitting inside of a
Sherwin-Williams asking thebusiness owner or the managers
what goes where, how to do it,listening to other contractors,
(04:05):
but it was very much so like,hey man, I'm going to start this
and we'll see what happens.
I passed out 500 flyers, got myfirst job from a lady named
Lydia and she gave me $860 topaint her living room in a
hallway, at a bedroom, and Ithought that I was on the top of
the world.
Man, it was quite crazy.
It was a lot of money comparedto what I was getting paid at
(04:27):
the church and she gave me a 50%deposit.
So that's how I went and boughtmy first paintbrush and roller
handle.
I didn't buy any tools until Ihad my first job.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
That's awesome.
So what's the timeline here?
When did you get started linehere?
Speaker 2 (04:42):
When did you get started.
Yeah, so we started the companyin 2006 and um, and that's all.
That's all I've done ever since.
We never got into any otherthing besides painting.
I know when people start to hita certain milestone, they start
to get into other stuff.
We've always just wanted tostick with just painting and, uh
, so 2006 is when all this, allthis, went down and um, we've
(05:05):
been growing every year since.
We've never we've had twoplateau years where we had a
fractional increase, but we'venever had a down year and just
try to do something new everysingle year and and just keep on
, keep on grinding it out.
So it's been, it's been, it'sbeen a fun journey and I really
enjoy the painting industry.
I mean, it has its things whereit's like man, that's a little
(05:26):
challenging to get over, butit's a.
It's a great industry to be inwith a, with a lot of need, and
so it's it's fun and if itencourages anybody listening to
this podcast, like you don'thave to have a ton of experience
, you don't have to be the starplayer on a, on a team right now
, now, and then go start yourown.
You could literally do thisfrom scratch, and nowadays
(05:49):
there's so many easy ways toadvertise that.
It's a lot.
In my opinion, it's a loteasier to start a painting
company now than it was almost20 years ago, so go get it If
you're thinking about it just 20years ago.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
So go get it If you're thinking about it.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
just go do it.
It's a great time, it gives yougreat freedom and to be able to
do what you want to foryourself or for your family, all
that kind of stuff.
And you know, Daniel, you didone.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Yeah, absolutely, and I love the story.
And almost 20 years at thispoint, and you basically started
with no knowledge.
You're just starting fromscratch, as you said.
So what does it look like now?
Where are you at now, almost 20years in Revenue locations team
(06:40):
?
What does that look like?
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Yeah, so currently we have three locations.
Um, we started in virginiabeach and and now our our office
is in norfolk.
So those shitty those citiestouch each other.
Probably need to cut that partout, daniel.
I just dropped the s ball there.
Um, those cities touch eachother and so, uh, norfolk.
And then, uh, four or fiveyears ago, we started our
(07:07):
Williamsburg location and at thebeginning of this year we
started Richmond.
Richmond was much slower of astart.
We've actually done a littlebit of pullback there to be able
to relaunch again, and we'vejust learned that going into a
new market.
The first two markets were verysimilar and it was very easy to
kind of mimic what we do there.
(07:27):
We get into the third market.
It's about an hour and 45minutes away from the first
market and about an hour fromthe second market, and it's
completely different.
The competition is different.
A lot of national franchises inthat Richmond market that
aren't present in the other twomarkets, and so advertising and
different things that we dopresent in the other two markets
, and so advertising anddifferent things that we do we
(07:48):
need to tweak differently.
It's not hitting the same waythat it was.
So anybody who's looking toexpand into different markets.
Take your location, maybe dotwo, three, four, five of them,
just really look at it and go init very strategically and make
sure that you got enough moneyto do it.
But getting that third one upwas much harder than the second
(08:12):
and I was under the impressionthat it was going to be easier
because your systems andprocesses are already dialed in,
and then to find out that thatthird one was harder because of
other dynamics that I didn'tanticipate.
So always a learning curve.
There we currently have 13full-time employees.
It's mainly office staff andmanagement staff.
(08:35):
We run a hub and spoke type ofmodel.
So all of our calls come intoour hub and then it's
distributed from there to eachone of the locations.
As far as, like the estimatesand stuff go, each location has
a manager that manages thatlocation and they have service
team members that service thejob.
(08:57):
So they're the managers goingout to the projects making sure
everything looks good and we'redoing exactly what we told the
clients and all that kind ofstuff.
And then we have a we're asubcontractor model, so every,
every, all the actual labor isbeing subcontracted out and then
under extreme management fromour team who's constantly on the
(09:21):
jobs, checking on those andmaking sure that the client's
happy team who's constantly onthe jobs, checking on those and
making sure that the client'shappy and that's really the
balance that we have found withthe subcontractor model is
making sure that you havesomebody there that is taking
care of the client and thecontractor is not the one trying
to do all that.
We also schedule everything.
We collect the payments, all ofthat kind of stuff.
(09:41):
So we don't even want our substalking to the clients, we'll
talk to the clients.
We just want the subs there todo the work.
So we've got our last count waslike 65 individual painters that
actually go out and do thepainting on these different
teams.
As far as revenue goes, lastyear we did 4.6 million, where
(10:04):
the goal for this year is 6million.
So we passed that $3 millionthreshold.
That is really hard for a lotof companies because the
dynamics change at that and themanagement structures change and
a lot of stuff to dial in there.
Not saying that we haven'tdialed in, we're still figuring
it out for sure, but it's beenfun to see um, see the growth
(10:25):
happen and and the teams line upin the way that they have.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
That's awesome.
Uh, so you got three locationsum goal, 6 million this year,
which is amazing.
Uh, like you said you, youpassed that $3 million threshold
, which seems to be a glassceiling for a lot of painting.
Businesses have trouble scalingpast that level.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Yeah, my mentor, brandon Dawson.
He talks about that being the$3 million.
I think the stats, the actualstats are like 92% of small
businesses will never get pastthe $3 million or will hit it
and go back down.
And the reason why is becausethat's what he calls the break
point of process creation andmaking sure your teams actually
(11:11):
follow the processes, and that'stypically where the average
person levels out with theirleadership.
It's very hard to break throughbecause then you've got to have
management structure that comesthrough that can mimic what you
want as the owner, and soprocess creation and the process
follow through is extremelyhard.
(11:31):
Once you get, once you breakpast that, he calls that the
that's, that's that threshold,the breaking point there.
So it's hard and statistically,you know, when you, when you
start listening to people, a lotof them hit that mark and it's
not easy.
When you start listening topeople, a lot of them hit that
mark and it's not easy.
It's a grind, and we rememberthe year when we hit that and it
(11:52):
was like man to get to the nextthing and even to get to this
$6 million that we're pushingfor right now, to go from $4.6
to $6 million.
It's a grind and the processes,as you continue to go, have to
get better, have to get morerefined and your team actually
has to listen to them and dothem and you got to hold your
team accountable.
So it's hard.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
But it's fun.
Could you tell me more aboutthe year that you broke 3
million?
What did it take?
What were the things that werebroken or that needed to be
fixed to get you past that line?
Speaker 2 (12:22):
So for us, honestly, fortunately and we all
experienced this during COVIDbut our breakthrough happened
during COVID and so the moneywas easier to come across.
And, as I'm going through theselists of businesses that are up
for sale because we'repurchasing businesses right,
Like you see where they hit the3 million on their financials
(12:43):
and then it went back down afterCOVID, so it for me and for us
and for a lot of people it wasactually less, it was easier to
hit the 3 million, if themaintaining of that 3 million,
and so it's like, what extrathings do you have to do?
And again, that comes down tothe process creation, so making
sure that your team is takencare of, but fully bought in and
(13:07):
holding people accountable.
Getting to 3 million.
You could have team members onyour team where you've said, hey
, I need you to do this, andthen they didn't do it, and then
you go back to them, hey, Ineed you to do this, and you can
kind of get frustrated and youcan kind of walk them through it
.
Or even as a business owner,you might be able to just push
really hard and get through it,but to maintain the 3 million
(13:29):
and grow from there, you need tomake sure that the team is
aligned, that they see thefuture, but then also the fact
that they're willing to grindthe future out with you and that
they're held accountable to it.
So now it's like when somebodydoesn't do something, it's like
look, you were asked to do this,it's part of your KPI or your
metric.
You didn't do it.
(13:50):
I've got to write you up and youhave, as a business owner, you
have to be willing to get rid ofeven people who got you to the
3 million.
Right, You've got to be willingto get rid of them if they're
not willing to be the peoplethat are going to get you to the
$4 million and to the $5million.
And that's one of the hardestthings, even as a human being,
(14:11):
to do is because you feel like,okay, this person really helped
me out and together we grew thisto the $3 million.
But as a business owner, youhave to understand you keep
growing.
Or you have to understand youkeep growing and so, because you
keep growing, your revenuegrows.
But your revenue taps out ifyour people aren't additionally
(14:33):
growing or you're finding thetalent that's needed to continue
to grow it.
And so it really could, becausethe painting jobs are easier to
find.
They're easier to sell now thanthey were 20 years ago.
Right Like the branding aspect,all of that stuff is actually
easier and can be done quickerthan it could many years ago.
It really just constantly comesdown to the people, and so you
(14:54):
kind of got to live by.
The people who got you heremight not be the people who get
you to the next level, and asmuch as you want it for them,
they have to want it forthemselves.
And if they're not the onesthat go, I'll take that extra
appointment, I'll grind it out,I'll sell that extra job, I'll
do those things that need to getdone.
(15:15):
Or they don't have the mentalaptitude to get you there, or
the leadership skills to get youthere, or even the fact that
they can't follow the simpleinstructions that you have.
You can find people that'll getyou to a million, then 2
million, then 3 million, butthey might not be the same
people that get you to the nextlevels, and you just got to be
okay with it for them.
And it doesn't mean they're badpeople, it just means that in
(15:37):
order to hit the next level,everybody has to keep growing.
I don't really like quoting 50Cent, but his manager.
One time they said how have youmaintained all of these
businesses?
You guys grew up together.
You don't have a businessbackground and he said I just
learned it because I knew that Ineeded to learn it to help him
(15:58):
get to the next level.
And so that was somebody whowas growing alongside and that's
why they have so manybusinesses.
So if you find people that willgrow alongside of you, you know
they will be the people thatwill get you to the next level,
because people are the greatmultiplier.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
So it sounds like to get above 3 million and stay
there.
It's all.
It all comes down to people.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
For sure.
I mean, there are some.
There are some owners that cangrind it out, daniel, and they.
They're the guys that like, ifthey're wanting to work 60, 70
hours a week, you could do thatas the owner, because what
you're actually doing is you'reactually filling in all the
areas that your team is fallingshort and you're not willing to
get rid of them because you likethem or because they got you,
they helped get you here.
(16:42):
But that's when business ownersstart to experience that
burnout and then what they do isthey actually scale back and
they go back to the one and ahalf $2 million benchmark or
lower, where it's like I can dothis myself, I can make more
money doing this myself.
Right, I don't need everybody,but it's like if you align
(17:02):
yourself with the right people,you can break through it and
continue to break through allthe other breakpoints.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
A couple of things you mentioned was.
One is accountability andkeeping your team aligned with
what you want them to do.
What are some specific thingsthat you had to implement that
really you feel really drovethat those folks to grow with
you or you had to get rid ofthem and get new people in that
(17:31):
helps you stay above 3 million?
Speaker 2 (17:34):
I think one of the easiest things was just creating
the core values.
Again, my mentor, brandonDawson.
He said, like you've got tohave these core values.
And I've always heard get amission statement, get a vision
statement, get core values.
But I never did it.
I literally never did it.
And when we got our core values,we specifically went and go
(17:54):
what do we want to be for othersand what do we want to be for
each other?
Right?
And then we, we put those intocore values and our core values
excuse me, our core values areharmony, extraordinary,
determined.
Harmony, extraordinary,determined, trustworthy,
accountable.
And I should know, I shouldknow them all.
(18:19):
I know.
Let me try it again it'strustworthy, harmony,
extraordinary, accountable,results-oriented and determined.
And we do it and we call itTHREAD that's our acronym.
So I was trying to figure thatout.
(18:40):
And so with that, there's somany different little things
inside of there.
For instance, if a clientdoesn't feel like one of my
managers is trustworthy or ifone of my leads doesn't think
that a manager is trustworthy,that's a conversation we have to
have with them.
And what does it look like tobe trustworthy or accountable?
(19:01):
We've given you a task.
You didn't do it.
You failed on theaccountability.
And then we hire, fire andretain based on those core
values and you cannot violatethat.
It doesn't matter who it is.
If somebody becomesuntrustworthy at any time in
their career with my company,they will be let go.
There's no exceptions, there'sno gray areas.
(19:23):
You were untrustworthy, we'vegot to let you go.
And it doesn't matter the typeof performer that you are,
because once you start violatingyour own core values, you ruin
the foundation of who you are,and those core values were set
up for us to be able to be thatway to clients and us to be able
to be that way with each other,and so holding each other
accountable to that is a majorpart.
(19:44):
And then you just got to.
You got to love your people.
You got to do things for themthat that other people don't do
for them.
You got to.
I know I love the Lord.
Jesus is the center of my life,and so I.
We have a team meeting everysingle morning and I ask them if
there's something that theywould like me to pray with them
about.
And I just got to pray with oneof our office ladies whose
(20:06):
brother's going through a hardtime, and so things like that
loving them, treating them right, taking care of them.
You know, the Bible makes itpretty simple Do unto others as
you would have them do unto you.
And so we try to examine itfrom that lens and make sure
that we're taking care of theteam, because once the team
feels valued, they will helptake you to the next level.
You know, but a lot of guys are,they're yellers.
(20:29):
They yell at people there.
You know, they get emotionallyattached.
And my, my, my mentor, brandonDawson, says high emotion equals
low intelligence.
So if you find yourself in ahigh emotional situation, it's
because you lack theintelligence that you need for
that, and so you get loud andyou start yelling.
It's just not the way to bewith the team.
(20:50):
So you need the team and theteam needs you, and you just got
to understand that and workthrough it.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
So core values?
It sounds like huge becausethat is helping you hire,
recruit, retain and the end orfire your, the folks that you're
working with.
What are some things thatyou're?
I imagine during your hiringprocess, you're probably asking
questions and probing folks tosee if they align with the core
values, which that makes sense.
(21:19):
How do you continually keep thecore values in the forefront
when they're actually employees?
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Yeah, I love that.
So the core values, the missionstatement, the vision statement
are all part of most of ourmorning routines.
So, for instance, we have amorning meeting every single day
at 1030, monday through Friday,with the whole entire team.
It's virtual.
We all get on there.
Each location shares wins,people get to share wins.
(21:48):
So you start off with the winsand just kind of get through
this like look what great we'redoing, right, like we read a
review, all of that kind ofstuff so that it encourages the
team, because a lot of the timesthe team hears the negative or
a job didn't work out the waythat we wanted it to work out,
and their minds start slippingnegative.
So it's a constant reminder ofwe're doing way more good by far
(22:13):
than we have maybe a clientthat leaves us a three-star
review or something like that.
And then, inside of thatencouraging the team, we ask
people at random what's ourmission statement and we expect
everybody to know it by heart.
We ask them what's our visionstatement when we go into our
mission statement.
Our mission statement is that wehonor the Lord through the way
(22:35):
we drastically transformpeople's experience with
traditional contractors.
So once somebody quotes that,we ask somebody else like what's
one way that you've drasticallytransformed people's experience
?
And so give them that time tokind of talk about that.
And our vision statement is tobe the largest independently
owned painting company in thenation, and the reason why we
(22:58):
say that is not to be thelargest, even though that's in
the words.
Our job and what we talk aboutafter our vision statement is we
want to build an orphanage, wewant to house 300 kids and 50
staff members and house, feed,clothe and educate them in a
third world country.
That's our heart, that's ourbig goal, that's our passion,
and so we talk about that everyday.
(23:19):
And then the core values.
We ask somebody to list off thecore values by heart.
They list them off.
And then I asked them what'sone core value that really stuck
out to you last week in yourdealings?
And they might say like I hadto be determined because I
really needed to get throughthis project, or the client
thought that we said this and soI had to build trust with them
(24:00):
and be more trustworthy orextraordinary, and so you've got
to talk about it to to give youon how they exercised those
things in their life.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
Yeah, I love it Every day doing a quick huddle to go
through the core values and thevision and the mission of the
company, to keep it as areminder.
So that's awesome and thatmakes a lot of sense.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Yeah, I mean it's got to be that.
You lot of sense, yeah, it'sgot.
I mean it's gotta be that you,you got.
You got to constantly drill it.
You know, you don't.
You don't tell your wife onetime that you love her and then
put it up on on the wall I loveyou.
You know, it's every day, it'sconstant, and even still there's
times where she needs to bereaffirmed of that, and this is
no different.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
So, going back to the original question, what are you
doing to keep your team on thelevel that they need to be to
get you over 3 million and alsostay over 3 million?
And you mentioned core valuesand having that vision mission.
Is there anything else that youfelt that was really key to
(25:02):
accomplishing that?
Speaker 2 (25:04):
I think everything rises and falls on marketing and
sales.
Right, I think you got tomarket your team really really
good and you better train yoursales guys to do it.
We're the highest priced in ourmarket by far.
In many cases 30 to 50% higheris what we hear all the time,
which tells me two things.
(25:24):
It tells me that the other guyshave room where they can
increase their prices 30 to 50%and be up there competing with
us or just under us, howeverthey want to do it.
But then you also have to havea sales team that can actually
sell that and add value and showthe value to the homeowner of
what we bring to the table.
(25:45):
And those are big things.
You'll never grow if you're notmarketing it correctly and your
team's not able to sell itcorrectly.
So you got to make sure thatyour sales team has daily
targets for themselves and fortheir team.
You got to make sure that theydo daily training.
We do.
Cardone University, which is aGrant Cardone platform,
(26:08):
absolutely love.
It Brought one of our when wefirst started, brought one of
our guys who was a painter andthen became a salesman for us,
brought him from a 27% closerate, which is barely under
average all the way up to 56%.
And every year we raise ourprices 10%.
(26:29):
So it's just getting more andmore expensive and he's not even
our highest closer.
But getting him a dailytraining regimen, we do role
plays with our sales team.
Where they role play situations.
If somebody told them no, theygo in it with another sales team
member.
They go back and forth and tryto figure out what did I do
wrong?
What could I have said, wheredid I lose them, that type of
(26:52):
stuff.
And so training your sales teamis absolutely massive and
getting them the proper training.
Paying for that pays for itselfover and over and over again.
And then you got to make surethat you market it correctly.
And that gets harder and harderevery single year, gets more
expensive every single year.
But you got to make sure you dothe basics, all the like
(27:13):
wrapping your vehicles, yardsigns, that type of stuff, email
marketing, free things.
Really make sure that those area big deal.
And then keeping track of anytype of paid stuff.
You got to make sure that youhave a return that you want to
get and if you're not gettingthat, pull out of that marketing
(27:34):
.
If you are getting that, see ifyou could dump a little bit
more money and maintain thatuntil you've maxed that out.
But every year you should gointo looking for something new
that you're going to do in yourmarketing and do that until you
can't spend any more money onthat and make sure it's
returning you the return thatyou need.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
Yeah, so it sounds like you're charging 30 to 50%
higher than the folks around youthe other painting businesses
around you and you're able to dothat because you're showing
value through the sales processand your sales team is highly
trained.
You're doing daily trainingwith them, role playing and
(28:13):
using resources like CardoneUniversity.
What are your gross profitmargins looking like with that
sort of you know what you'recharging there what you're
charging there.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Yeah, so last calendar year are.
Now, look, I always forgetwhich one's gross and which
one's net, and that's why guyslike you come in, daniel, and my
financial guys.
They tell me this I know thatlast year, after everything was
said and done, every bill waspaid for, we had a 14% profit.
I don't know if you're askingthat on, the gross was.
I think the gross is what comesbefore all of that deductions,
isn't that?
Speaker 1 (28:50):
right, yeah, so gross profit would be.
That's the net.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Yeah, yeah.
So the gross?
I don't even I don't, I'm notsure what the gross is.
I know we give our um, our subcrews, right now we give them
41% uh of the job, we keep therest and then we've got all of
our management and marketing andall that kind of stuff out of
there.
41%, they take, they take, theypay for the material and again,
(29:14):
most models do 50, 50.
We used to do 50, 50.
Then we went to 45, 50.
It's only at 41 because weconstantly are raising our
prices and we just realizedwe're losing a lot more margin.
Our teams aren't asking formore.
They're happy with the 41%because it's still more than
(29:37):
they're getting from a companywho's giving them 50 or 60% of
the job but charging 50% less.
So the math, math doesn't, itjust doesn't work out.
And so we're constantly beatingother like franchise companies.
Their people are coming to us,um, even though when you look at
it on the surface you're like41, I wouldn't advise.
I wouldn't advise 41 percent uhfor anybody, unless your, your
(30:01):
job, are much higher priced thaneverybody else.
If you're right there witheverybody, you should probably
stick to that 50-50 model.
But it works out well for usand it works out well for the
crews.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
Yeah, no, and that makes sense.
I mean, usually the generalrule of thumb is 50% gross
profit margin, but that's forpainting businesses, maybe
around a million.
But as you grow and your salesprocess becomes stronger, you're
able to charge higher pricesand you build that reputation.
(30:33):
I know you got hundreds ofGoogle reviews and so when you
have that reputation, thatstrong sales process, you'll be
able to charge higher prices,and so you should benefit from
those higher prices.
It makes complete sense thatyour gross profit margin is
somewhere around 59%, which isamazing, but also you've been in
(30:53):
business for 20 years, soobviously someone that's just
getting in business for the lastcouple of years probably won't
be able to hit a 59% grossprofit margin.
But it's definitely attainableif you work at it and build that
reputation that you have.
So that makes complete sensefrom my perspective.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
For sure, and I encourage every business owner
I've talked to I encourage toincrease their prices.
Just the fact that you'retrading your labor for something
doesn't mean that your area orthe people in your area get to
dictate what your worth is.
And you'll never know what yourworth is until you constantly
(31:31):
are raising the prices.
I talked to a guy the other day, super frustrated, a business
owner that I coach and help out.
He's super frustrated and Isaid if you were to cut your
price or if you were to increaseyour prices 100%, what's your
result?
And he was like oh, he came upwith some stuff and I was like
the result is that you get thesame revenue as next year If 50%
(31:53):
of your clients stay in, 50 go.
You get the same revenue, butyou have to work 50% less.
And it was kind of aneye-opener for him.
And so I challenge anybodylistening to this just
constantly raise your pricesuntil the market tells you no.
We've been raising our prices10% every year since 2010.
And we have never.
(32:14):
We get a lot of no's on price,but we've never dipped in
revenue.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
And it sounds like you get a lot of no's, but you
also your close rates sound likethey stay pretty high even
though you are constantlyraising your prices.
And that goes back to dailytraining, role playing, that
thing that you're doing everyday to make sure your
salespeople are top notch andthat are showing that value
through the sales process.
So could you give some examplesof how your sales team is
showing value?
You give some examples of howyour sales team is showing value
(32:51):
and before the customer signsthe dotted line, what are they
doing?
That's building that trust,showing that value to get the
prospect to sign up.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
Fantastic question and a lot of this is going to
come down to.
I know people are like, oh,sales is one thing, marketing is
another.
They are one in the same.
People are like, oh, sales isone thing, marketing is another.
They are one in the same.
The sales guy needs to go thereand get you to sign on the
dotted line, but he's going tohave a lot easier of a chance to
get that if you looked at yourmarketing as a sales avenue as
(33:18):
well.
So, for instance, one of thethings we did and I read a book
by Dan Kennedy, who's a fabulousauthor, he's got so many books,
he's so good at what he doesbut he talks about selling
yourself before you even get tothe client, before they even
give you a call, and it's thingslike one of the things we offer
(33:39):
is a 100% money-back guarantee,and we've had to use that twice
since 2010.
But it's the value.
So when somebody goes, I needto wait for my wife or my
husband to be here to make thisdecision.
Well, you have 100% money backguarantee.
If, at any time, you want tocancel this project even before
(34:02):
it starts, we can do that, andso you're disarming them during
the sales process.
You're disarming them throughthe whole process because people
are afraid that a contractormight take their money and run.
But if you have something likethat, if you set up something
like that in your company, youcan add the prices and increase
your prices and you can give iteasier to your sales team to do
(34:25):
Not that they have an easy job,because it's never easy, but
you're setting them up forsuccess with that.
One of the other things we do islike free color consultations.
We do free lifetime supply oftouch up paint.
So if a client needs more paint, we send it to them.
We have Sherwin Williams orBenjamin Moore deliver it right
to their door.
We send it to them.
(34:45):
We have Sherwin-Williams orBenjamin Moore deliver it right
to their door.
So, adding things that work foryou as a business owner that
don't really take away from theamount of money that you're
going to bring home from yourprofit but add value to the
client.
For instance, we have a 15-yearlabor and material warranty on
all interior.
Everybody in our area has threeyears.
(35:06):
That's the max that we've seenin our area.
Average is about two.
So when a client, when somebodygoes, you guys are a lot higher
priced.
We take that price $10,000.
We divide it by 15 years and weshow them this is how much
you're paying for a year with usbecause it's covered for 15
years.
This is how much you're payingfor these guys because they're
(35:26):
only doing two years $10,000.
It's costing you $5,000 a yearversus $1,000 a year.
So those are the things thatyou show the client, that add
the value to them, where theylogically look at it and go hey,
there's a reason why Kia cameonto the market and took it by
storm.
Because they're telling youlike your, your, your vehicle's
warrantied for a hundredthousand miles.
(35:46):
You know, and you deal withsomebody who's like, yeah, my
Dodge went out at 35,000 miles,my transmission blew up, it was
out of warranty and all of asudden you see how that those
types of things can play into,how you add value as a business
owner, even in the paintingindustry, and it doesn't have to
cost you a bunch of your profityeah, that's, that's incredible
.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
15 year uh, warranty on labor and material that
that's, that's the highest thatI've ever heard.
It that's that's pretty coolyeah, I mean.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Once again, though, it's easier to sell when it's,
uh, when you've you've got thosethings for them, uh, to be able
to take care of them right, youget the money back, guarantee,
free color consults, freelifetime supply of paint and
then the warranty on top of that.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
So that's all.
You're just value stacking tomake it as much of a no brainer
as possible for.
And I'm sure on top of that,I'm sure you have Well, I know
you have hundreds of Googlereviews and then probably before
and after pictures andtestimonials and all this stuff
(36:52):
to really just yeah, one of thethings when we were a young
company.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
again, I don't know how other companies work.
I've never been a part ofanother painting company or
really another constructioncompany.
I worked at Kmart for sixmonths, then my church for four
years, then I started a company.
So I don't have this workexperience that I can go off of
how this was done at anothercompany, just questions that I
ask people.
But one of the things I thoughtwhen I was maybe six or eight
(37:18):
months into the business, maybea year, I thought don't people
want to see business licensesand references and my Google
reviews and all this kind ofstuff?
So I used to just get theseManila envelopes from OfficeMax
and I would print up those pagesand I would put them in there.
And I used to bring a littleprinter with me and a computer
and I would do your proposal andI would print it up and I would
(37:40):
put it in there and I would sitdown with you and I would go
over that and I'll never forgetthe first man that looked at me
and he said I've been gettingwork done on this house for 26
years and nobody has ever showedme a list of references.
Nobody has ever showed me theirbusiness license and I just
thought it was just whateverybody did.
So even little things like thatadd value and it costs you
(38:01):
pennies.
So if you're not, if you'rejust sending somebody an email,
you're losing all the value thatyou can build in there.
Give them a list of yourreferences.
Give it to them in paper.
People love it.
When people like paper, I meanyou send it to them on email.
It's just going to get lost andthey'll probably delete it and
they'll never read it.
But you show it to them onpaper.
Here's references.
Call any of those.
(38:21):
Here are my Google reviews.
Here's my Better BusinessBureau review.
Here is a copy of my insurance.
Call them and make sure thatit's valid.
All of that kind of stuff andanything else that you can think
of are things as well that costyou almost nothing, that you
add value to yourself when youshow it to somebody.
(38:59):
Awesome yeah that makes a lot ofsense and it's straightforward
and that's a great way to setyourself apart.
Like you said, painters,especially when we go to sell
something, we think that, oh, Ican just write it on the back of
a business card and walk out ofthere and you're hurting
yourself.
You're just hurting yourself.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
Awesome.
Well, Gabriel, this was anawesome conversation.
I feel like I could go on forthe next couple hours just
asking you more questions, but Iwant to be respectful of your
time.
Do you have any last thoughtsfor painting business owners out
there on improving theirbusiness, maybe growing and
staying beyond 3 million inrevenue, whatever you got?
(39:37):
Do you have any last thoughtsfor the audience?
Speaker 2 (39:40):
Really just comes down to love your people, man.
I mean, that's really, that'sreally the thing.
Just make sure that they feelvalued, make sure that they feel
heard.
You're not going to be aperfect leader.
There's going to be people whocomplain.
I heard the other day somebodysaid the leader is always the
hero or the villain.
You're either going to be theguy that saves the day or you're
going to be the villain, andsometimes you're both of it in
(40:01):
the same day.
But just know that you're doingthis for yourself, but you're
doing this for them, and beunreasonable when it comes down
to what you want out of yourcompany.
It's your company.
But love them and coach themand help them along as best as
you can.
But treat them right.
Cast the vision and you'll getthere.
(40:23):
The Bible says where there isno vision, the people perish.
And so you got to cast thatvision for your team where we're
going and what's in it for them, what kind of position could
they have in the future and thenit'll help you attract really
good people, which will help yougrow a really great business.
Speaker 1 (40:40):
Amazing.
Thank you so much, gabriel, andfor our listeners with that, we
will see you next week.
Welcome to the Profitable Painter Podcast.
The mission of this podcast issimple to help you navigate the
financial and tax aspects ofstarting, running and scaling a
professional painting business,from the brushes and ladders to
the spreadsheets and balancesheets.
We've got you covered.
But before we dive in, a quickword of caution.
While we strive to provideaccurate and up-to-date
financial and tax information,nothing you hear on this podcast
(00:22):
should be considered asfinancial advice specifically,
and tax information.
Nothing you hear on thispodcast should be considered as
financial advice specificallyfor you or your business.
We're here to share generalknowledge and experiences, not
to replace the tailored advice.
Welcome to the ProfitablePainter Podcast, the show where
painting contractors learn howto boost profits, cut taxes and
build a business that works forthem.
I'm your host, Daniel Honan,cpa and former painting business
owner, and your guide tomastering the numbers that drive
(00:45):
success.
So let's dive in and make yourbusiness more profitable, one
episode at a time.
Today, I'm super excited tohave Gabriel Gore here.
He has an amazing business upin Virginia and he's here today
to discuss that.
Welcome to the podcast, gabriel.
How's it going?
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Going great.
Daniel man, thank you so muchfor having me on here.
Really appreciate it and justthankful to be here and be able
to tell our story and talk withyou.
It's an honor.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Yes, I'm excited.
I know you got some big thingsgoing up there and I'd love to
dive in Just to give theaudience context to where you're
coming from.
If you could just talk abouthow did you get started in the
painting industry, what's beenyour journey and what have been
some major milestones along theway.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Yeah, because I like to talk.
I ramble on.
So if you need to cut me short,feel free to cut me short and
if you need, you'll probablyneed to remind me of those
follow up questions too.
Be short and if you need,you'll probably need to remind
me of those follow-up questionstoo.
But I love telling how westarted because I think that for
the most part, everybody in ourindustry most of them start
(01:55):
around the same type of way.
Mine might have a little tweakhere or there, but we're all
looking for some freedom and tobe able to do things the way
that we see fit.
We're all looking for somefreedom and to be able to do
things the way that we see fit.
So to start with mine, I wasworking at my church, worked
there for four years, and thepastor said to me one day he
said, hey, we need to take alittle bit of a break here, and
(02:16):
the church wasn't financiallydoing the best, and so I said no
problem.
He said how about we go a yearand at the end of the year you
come back and and we'll see ifthis is something that we can
continue to do?
And so then he asked me sit inhis office.
He said what are you going todo for the year?
And I said I don't know.
(02:37):
I'll start a painting company.
And that's literally how itstarted.
He chuckled my youth pastorchuckled when he first heard
about it my old youth pastor hesaid.
He said you don't even likepainting when we have to paint
around the church and you'regoing to start a painting
company.
But I really didn't.
What it came down to was Ididn't really want to go
somewhere and have somebody pourinvestment and time into me,
(03:01):
teaching me something, because Iwas certain that I was going to
go back and work for the churchat the end of that year and
that didn't end up happening.
And so we're in our 19th yearright now and I've been doing it
ever since.
So I had no past experience.
I'd never done anythingprofessionally.
When I started the company Ididn't even know there was
(03:23):
different size of roller naps.
So it was very in fact.
I remember the day I wasactually contracted to do some
painting at the church and alady came in.
I was painting cinder block.
I was painting each line aroundthe cinder block because my
roller cover wouldn't go intothe divot in there where the
(03:44):
mortar lines are.
And she came in she said youknow, they sell different size
roller naps for that.
So I was educated by differentpieces, a lot of
Sherwin-Williams, a lot of timessitting inside of a
Sherwin-Williams asking thebusiness owner or the managers
what goes where, how to do it,listening to other contractors,
(04:05):
but it was very much so like,hey man, I'm going to start this
and we'll see what happens.
I passed out 500 flyers, got myfirst job from a lady named
Lydia and she gave me $860 topaint her living room in a
hallway, at a bedroom, and Ithought that I was on the top of
the world.
Man, it was quite crazy.
It was a lot of money comparedto what I was getting paid at
(04:27):
the church and she gave me a 50%deposit.
So that's how I went and boughtmy first paintbrush and roller
handle.
I didn't buy any tools until Ihad my first job.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
That's awesome.
So what's the timeline here?
When did you get started linehere?
Speaker 2 (04:42):
When did you get started.
Yeah, so we started the companyin 2006 and um, and that's all.
That's all I've done ever since.
We never got into any otherthing besides painting.
I know when people start to hita certain milestone, they start
to get into other stuff.
We've always just wanted tostick with just painting and, uh
, so 2006 is when all this, allthis, went down and um, we've
(05:05):
been growing every year since.
We've never we've had twoplateau years where we had a
fractional increase, but we'venever had a down year and just
try to do something new everysingle year and and just keep on
, keep on grinding it out.
So it's been, it's been, it'sbeen a fun journey and I really
enjoy the painting industry.
I mean, it has its things whereit's like man, that's a little
(05:26):
challenging to get over, butit's a.
It's a great industry to be inwith a, with a lot of need, and
so it's it's fun and if itencourages anybody listening to
this podcast, like you don'thave to have a ton of experience
, you don't have to be the starplayer on a, on a team right now
, now, and then go start yourown.
You could literally do thisfrom scratch, and nowadays
(05:49):
there's so many easy ways toadvertise that.
It's a lot.
In my opinion, it's a loteasier to start a painting
company now than it was almost20 years ago, so go get it If
you're thinking about it just 20years ago.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
So go get it If you're thinking about it.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
just go do it.
It's a great time, it gives yougreat freedom and to be able to
do what you want to foryourself or for your family, all
that kind of stuff.
And you know, Daniel, you didone.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Yeah, absolutely, and I love the story.
And almost 20 years at thispoint, and you basically started
with no knowledge.
You're just starting fromscratch, as you said.
So what does it look like now?
Where are you at now, almost 20years in Revenue locations team
(06:40):
?
What does that look like?
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Yeah, so currently we have three locations.
Um, we started in virginiabeach and and now our our office
is in norfolk.
So those shitty those citiestouch each other.
Probably need to cut that partout, daniel.
I just dropped the s ball there.
Um, those cities touch eachother and so, uh, norfolk.
And then, uh, four or fiveyears ago, we started our
(07:07):
Williamsburg location and at thebeginning of this year we
started Richmond.
Richmond was much slower of astart.
We've actually done a littlebit of pullback there to be able
to relaunch again, and we'vejust learned that going into a
new market.
The first two markets were verysimilar and it was very easy to
kind of mimic what we do there.
(07:27):
We get into the third market.
It's about an hour and 45minutes away from the first
market and about an hour fromthe second market, and it's
completely different.
The competition is different.
A lot of national franchises inthat Richmond market that
aren't present in the other twomarkets, and so advertising and
different things that we dopresent in the other two markets
, and so advertising anddifferent things that we do we
(07:48):
need to tweak differently.
It's not hitting the same waythat it was.
So anybody who's looking toexpand into different markets.
Take your location, maybe dotwo, three, four, five of them,
just really look at it and go init very strategically and make
sure that you got enough moneyto do it.
But getting that third one upwas much harder than the second
(08:12):
and I was under the impressionthat it was going to be easier
because your systems andprocesses are already dialed in,
and then to find out that thatthird one was harder because of
other dynamics that I didn'tanticipate.
So always a learning curve.
There we currently have 13full-time employees.
It's mainly office staff andmanagement staff.
(08:35):
We run a hub and spoke type ofmodel.
So all of our calls come intoour hub and then it's
distributed from there to eachone of the locations.
As far as, like the estimatesand stuff go, each location has
a manager that manages thatlocation and they have service
team members that service thejob.
(08:57):
So they're the managers goingout to the projects making sure
everything looks good and we'redoing exactly what we told the
clients and all that kind ofstuff.
And then we have a we're asubcontractor model, so every,
every, all the actual labor isbeing subcontracted out and then
under extreme management fromour team who's constantly on the
(09:21):
jobs, checking on those andmaking sure that the client's
happy team who's constantly onthe jobs, checking on those and
making sure that the client'shappy and that's really the
balance that we have found withthe subcontractor model is
making sure that you havesomebody there that is taking
care of the client and thecontractor is not the one trying
to do all that.
We also schedule everything.
We collect the payments, all ofthat kind of stuff.
(09:41):
So we don't even want our substalking to the clients, we'll
talk to the clients.
We just want the subs there todo the work.
So we've got our last count waslike 65 individual painters that
actually go out and do thepainting on these different
teams.
As far as revenue goes, lastyear we did 4.6 million, where
(10:04):
the goal for this year is 6million.
So we passed that $3 millionthreshold.
That is really hard for a lotof companies because the
dynamics change at that and themanagement structures change and
a lot of stuff to dial in there.
Not saying that we haven'tdialed in, we're still figuring
it out for sure, but it's beenfun to see um, see the growth
(10:25):
happen and and the teams line upin the way that they have.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
That's awesome.
Uh, so you got three locationsum goal, 6 million this year,
which is amazing.
Uh, like you said you, youpassed that $3 million threshold
, which seems to be a glassceiling for a lot of painting.
Businesses have trouble scalingpast that level.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Yeah, my mentor, brandon Dawson.
He talks about that being the$3 million.
I think the stats, the actualstats are like 92% of small
businesses will never get pastthe $3 million or will hit it
and go back down.
And the reason why is becausethat's what he calls the break
point of process creation andmaking sure your teams actually
(11:11):
follow the processes, and that'stypically where the average
person levels out with theirleadership.
It's very hard to break throughbecause then you've got to have
management structure that comesthrough that can mimic what you
want as the owner, and soprocess creation and the process
follow through is extremelyhard.
(11:31):
Once you get, once you breakpast that, he calls that the
that's, that's that threshold,the breaking point there.
So it's hard and statistically,you know, when you, when you
start listening to people, a lotof them hit that mark and it's
not easy.
When you start listening topeople, a lot of them hit that
mark and it's not easy.
It's a grind, and we rememberthe year when we hit that and it
(11:52):
was like man to get to the nextthing and even to get to this
$6 million that we're pushingfor right now, to go from $4.6
to $6 million.
It's a grind and the processes,as you continue to go, have to
get better, have to get morerefined and your team actually
has to listen to them and dothem and you got to hold your
team accountable.
So it's hard.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
But it's fun.
Could you tell me more aboutthe year that you broke 3
million?
What did it take?
What were the things that werebroken or that needed to be
fixed to get you past that line?
Speaker 2 (12:22):
So for us, honestly, fortunately and we all
experienced this during COVIDbut our breakthrough happened
during COVID and so the moneywas easier to come across.
And, as I'm going through theselists of businesses that are up
for sale because we'repurchasing businesses right,
Like you see where they hit the3 million on their financials
(12:43):
and then it went back down afterCOVID, so it for me and for us
and for a lot of people it wasactually less, it was easier to
hit the 3 million, if themaintaining of that 3 million,
and so it's like, what extrathings do you have to do?
And again, that comes down tothe process creation, so making
sure that your team is takencare of, but fully bought in and
(13:07):
holding people accountable.
Getting to 3 million.
You could have team members onyour team where you've said, hey
, I need you to do this, andthen they didn't do it, and then
you go back to them, hey, Ineed you to do this, and you can
kind of get frustrated and youcan kind of walk them through it
.
Or even as a business owner,you might be able to just push
really hard and get through it,but to maintain the 3 million
(13:29):
and grow from there, you need tomake sure that the team is
aligned, that they see thefuture, but then also the fact
that they're willing to grindthe future out with you and that
they're held accountable to it.
So now it's like when somebodydoesn't do something, it's like
look, you were asked to do this,it's part of your KPI or your
metric.
You didn't do it.
(13:50):
I've got to write you up and youhave, as a business owner, you
have to be willing to get rid ofeven people who got you to the
3 million.
Right, You've got to be willingto get rid of them if they're
not willing to be the peoplethat are going to get you to the
$4 million and to the $5million.
And that's one of the hardestthings, even as a human being,
(14:11):
to do is because you feel like,okay, this person really helped
me out and together we grew thisto the $3 million.
But as a business owner, youhave to understand you keep
growing.
Or you have to understand youkeep growing and so, because you
keep growing, your revenuegrows.
But your revenue taps out ifyour people aren't additionally
(14:33):
growing or you're finding thetalent that's needed to continue
to grow it.
And so it really could, becausethe painting jobs are easier to
find.
They're easier to sell now thanthey were 20 years ago.
Right Like the branding aspect,all of that stuff is actually
easier and can be done quickerthan it could many years ago.
It really just constantly comesdown to the people, and so you
(14:54):
kind of got to live by.
The people who got you heremight not be the people who get
you to the next level, and asmuch as you want it for them,
they have to want it forthemselves.
And if they're not the onesthat go, I'll take that extra
appointment, I'll grind it out,I'll sell that extra job, I'll
do those things that need to getdone.
(15:15):
Or they don't have the mentalaptitude to get you there, or
the leadership skills to get youthere, or even the fact that
they can't follow the simpleinstructions that you have.
You can find people that'll getyou to a million, then 2
million, then 3 million, butthey might not be the same
people that get you to the nextlevels, and you just got to be
okay with it for them.
And it doesn't mean they're badpeople, it just means that in
(15:37):
order to hit the next level,everybody has to keep growing.
I don't really like quoting 50Cent, but his manager.
One time they said how have youmaintained all of these
businesses?
You guys grew up together.
You don't have a businessbackground and he said I just
learned it because I knew that Ineeded to learn it to help him
(15:58):
get to the next level.
And so that was somebody whowas growing alongside and that's
why they have so manybusinesses.
So if you find people that willgrow alongside of you, you know
they will be the people thatwill get you to the next level,
because people are the greatmultiplier.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
So it sounds like to get above 3 million and stay
there.
It's all.
It all comes down to people.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
For sure.
I mean, there are some.
There are some owners that cangrind it out, daniel, and they.
They're the guys that like, ifthey're wanting to work 60, 70
hours a week, you could do thatas the owner, because what
you're actually doing is you'reactually filling in all the
areas that your team is fallingshort and you're not willing to
get rid of them because you likethem or because they got you,
they helped get you here.
(16:42):
But that's when business ownersstart to experience that
burnout and then what they do isthey actually scale back and
they go back to the one and ahalf $2 million benchmark or
lower, where it's like I can dothis myself, I can make more
money doing this myself.
Right, I don't need everybody,but it's like if you align
(17:02):
yourself with the right people,you can break through it and
continue to break through allthe other breakpoints.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
A couple of things you mentioned was.
One is accountability andkeeping your team aligned with
what you want them to do.
What are some specific thingsthat you had to implement that
really you feel really drovethat those folks to grow with
you or you had to get rid ofthem and get new people in that
(17:31):
helps you stay above 3 million?
Speaker 2 (17:34):
I think one of the easiest things was just creating
the core values.
Again, my mentor, brandonDawson.
He said, like you've got tohave these core values.
And I've always heard get amission statement, get a vision
statement, get core values.
But I never did it.
I literally never did it.
And when we got our core values,we specifically went and go
(17:54):
what do we want to be for othersand what do we want to be for
each other?
Right?
And then we, we put those intocore values and our core values
excuse me, our core values areharmony, extraordinary,
determined.
Harmony, extraordinary,determined, trustworthy,
accountable.
And I should know, I shouldknow them all.
(18:19):
I know.
Let me try it again it'strustworthy, harmony,
extraordinary, accountable,results-oriented and determined.
And we do it and we call itTHREAD that's our acronym.
So I was trying to figure thatout.
(18:40):
And so with that, there's somany different little things
inside of there.
For instance, if a clientdoesn't feel like one of my
managers is trustworthy or ifone of my leads doesn't think
that a manager is trustworthy,that's a conversation we have to
have with them.
And what does it look like tobe trustworthy or accountable?
(19:01):
We've given you a task.
You didn't do it.
You failed on theaccountability.
And then we hire, fire andretain based on those core
values and you cannot violatethat.
It doesn't matter who it is.
If somebody becomesuntrustworthy at any time in
their career with my company,they will be let go.
There's no exceptions, there'sno gray areas.
(19:23):
You were untrustworthy, we'vegot to let you go.
And it doesn't matter the typeof performer that you are,
because once you start violatingyour own core values, you ruin
the foundation of who you are,and those core values were set
up for us to be able to be thatway to clients and us to be able
to be that way with each other,and so holding each other
accountable to that is a majorpart.
(19:44):
And then you just got to.
You got to love your people.
You got to do things for themthat that other people don't do
for them.
You got to.
I know I love the Lord.
Jesus is the center of my life,and so I.
We have a team meeting everysingle morning and I ask them if
there's something that theywould like me to pray with them
about.
And I just got to pray with oneof our office ladies whose
(20:06):
brother's going through a hardtime, and so things like that
loving them, treating them right, taking care of them.
You know, the Bible makes itpretty simple Do unto others as
you would have them do unto you.
And so we try to examine itfrom that lens and make sure
that we're taking care of theteam, because once the team
feels valued, they will helptake you to the next level.
You know, but a lot of guys are,they're yellers.
(20:29):
They yell at people there.
You know, they get emotionallyattached.
And my, my, my mentor, brandonDawson, says high emotion equals
low intelligence.
So if you find yourself in ahigh emotional situation, it's
because you lack theintelligence that you need for
that, and so you get loud andyou start yelling.
It's just not the way to bewith the team.
(20:50):
So you need the team and theteam needs you, and you just got
to understand that and workthrough it.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
So core values?
It sounds like huge becausethat is helping you hire,
recruit, retain and the end orfire your, the folks that you're
working with.
What are some things thatyou're?
I imagine during your hiringprocess, you're probably asking
questions and probing folks tosee if they align with the core
values, which that makes sense.
(21:19):
How do you continually keep thecore values in the forefront
when they're actually employees?
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Yeah, I love that.
So the core values, the missionstatement, the vision statement
are all part of most of ourmorning routines.
So, for instance, we have amorning meeting every single day
at 1030, monday through Friday,with the whole entire team.
It's virtual.
We all get on there.
Each location shares wins,people get to share wins.
(21:48):
So you start off with the winsand just kind of get through
this like look what great we'redoing, right, like we read a
review, all of that kind ofstuff so that it encourages the
team, because a lot of the timesthe team hears the negative or
a job didn't work out the waythat we wanted it to work out,
and their minds start slippingnegative.
So it's a constant reminder ofwe're doing way more good by far
(22:13):
than we have maybe a clientthat leaves us a three-star
review or something like that.
And then, inside of thatencouraging the team, we ask
people at random what's ourmission statement and we expect
everybody to know it by heart.
We ask them what's our visionstatement when we go into our
mission statement.
Our mission statement is that wehonor the Lord through the way
(22:35):
we drastically transformpeople's experience with
traditional contractors.
So once somebody quotes that,we ask somebody else like what's
one way that you've drasticallytransformed people's experience
?
And so give them that time tokind of talk about that.
And our vision statement is tobe the largest independently
owned painting company in thenation, and the reason why we
(22:58):
say that is not to be thelargest, even though that's in
the words.
Our job and what we talk aboutafter our vision statement is we
want to build an orphanage, wewant to house 300 kids and 50
staff members and house, feed,clothe and educate them in a
third world country.
That's our heart, that's ourbig goal, that's our passion,
and so we talk about that everyday.
(23:19):
And then the core values.
We ask somebody to list off thecore values by heart.
They list them off.
And then I asked them what'sone core value that really stuck
out to you last week in yourdealings?
And they might say like I hadto be determined because I
really needed to get throughthis project, or the client
thought that we said this and soI had to build trust with them
(24:00):
and be more trustworthy orextraordinary, and so you've got
to talk about it to to give youon how they exercised those
things in their life.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
Yeah, I love it Every day doing a quick huddle to go
through the core values and thevision and the mission of the
company, to keep it as areminder.
So that's awesome and thatmakes a lot of sense.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Yeah, I mean it's got to be that.
You lot of sense, yeah, it'sgot.
I mean it's gotta be that you,you got.
You got to constantly drill it.
You know, you don't.
You don't tell your wife onetime that you love her and then
put it up on on the wall I loveyou.
You know, it's every day, it'sconstant, and even still there's
times where she needs to bereaffirmed of that, and this is
no different.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
So, going back to the original question, what are you
doing to keep your team on thelevel that they need to be to
get you over 3 million and alsostay over 3 million?
And you mentioned core valuesand having that vision mission.
Is there anything else that youfelt that was really key to
(25:02):
accomplishing that?
Speaker 2 (25:04):
I think everything rises and falls on marketing and
sales.
Right, I think you got tomarket your team really really
good and you better train yoursales guys to do it.
We're the highest priced in ourmarket by far.
In many cases 30 to 50% higheris what we hear all the time,
which tells me two things.
(25:24):
It tells me that the other guyshave room where they can
increase their prices 30 to 50%and be up there competing with
us or just under us, howeverthey want to do it.
But then you also have to havea sales team that can actually
sell that and add value and showthe value to the homeowner of
what we bring to the table.
(25:45):
And those are big things.
You'll never grow if you're notmarketing it correctly and your
team's not able to sell itcorrectly.
So you got to make sure thatyour sales team has daily
targets for themselves and fortheir team.
You got to make sure that theydo daily training.
We do.
Cardone University, which is aGrant Cardone platform,
(26:08):
absolutely love.
It Brought one of our when wefirst started, brought one of
our guys who was a painter andthen became a salesman for us,
brought him from a 27% closerate, which is barely under
average all the way up to 56%.
And every year we raise ourprices 10%.
(26:29):
So it's just getting more andmore expensive and he's not even
our highest closer.
But getting him a dailytraining regimen, we do role
plays with our sales team.
Where they role play situations.
If somebody told them no, theygo in it with another sales team
member.
They go back and forth and tryto figure out what did I do
wrong?
What could I have said, wheredid I lose them, that type of
(26:52):
stuff.
And so training your sales teamis absolutely massive and
getting them the proper training.
Paying for that pays for itselfover and over and over again.
And then you got to make surethat you market it correctly.
And that gets harder and harderevery single year, gets more
expensive every single year.
But you got to make sure you dothe basics, all the like
(27:13):
wrapping your vehicles, yardsigns, that type of stuff, email
marketing, free things.
Really make sure that those area big deal.
And then keeping track of anytype of paid stuff.
You got to make sure that youhave a return that you want to
get and if you're not gettingthat, pull out of that marketing
(27:34):
.
If you are getting that, see ifyou could dump a little bit
more money and maintain thatuntil you've maxed that out.
But every year you should gointo looking for something new
that you're going to do in yourmarketing and do that until you
can't spend any more money onthat and make sure it's
returning you the return thatyou need.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
Yeah, so it sounds like you're charging 30 to 50%
higher than the folks around youthe other painting businesses
around you and you're able to dothat because you're showing
value through the sales processand your sales team is highly
trained.
You're doing daily trainingwith them, role playing and
(28:13):
using resources like CardoneUniversity.
What are your gross profitmargins looking like with that
sort of you know what you'recharging there what you're
charging there.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Yeah, so last calendar year are.
Now, look, I always forgetwhich one's gross and which
one's net, and that's why guyslike you come in, daniel, and my
financial guys.
They tell me this I know thatlast year, after everything was
said and done, every bill waspaid for, we had a 14% profit.
I don't know if you're askingthat on, the gross was.
I think the gross is what comesbefore all of that deductions,
isn't that?
Speaker 1 (28:50):
right, yeah, so gross profit would be.
That's the net.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Yeah, yeah.
So the gross?
I don't even I don't, I'm notsure what the gross is.
I know we give our um, our subcrews, right now we give them
41% uh of the job, we keep therest and then we've got all of
our management and marketing andall that kind of stuff out of
there.
41%, they take, they take, theypay for the material and again,
(29:14):
most models do 50, 50.
We used to do 50, 50.
Then we went to 45, 50.
It's only at 41 because weconstantly are raising our
prices and we just realizedwe're losing a lot more margin.
Our teams aren't asking formore.
They're happy with the 41%because it's still more than
(29:37):
they're getting from a companywho's giving them 50 or 60% of
the job but charging 50% less.
So the math, math doesn't, itjust doesn't work out.
And so we're constantly beatingother like franchise companies.
Their people are coming to us,um, even though when you look at
it on the surface you're like41, I wouldn't advise.
I wouldn't advise 41 percent uhfor anybody, unless your, your
(30:01):
job, are much higher priced thaneverybody else.
If you're right there witheverybody, you should probably
stick to that 50-50 model.
But it works out well for usand it works out well for the
crews.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
Yeah, no, and that makes sense.
I mean, usually the generalrule of thumb is 50% gross
profit margin, but that's forpainting businesses, maybe
around a million.
But as you grow and your salesprocess becomes stronger, you're
able to charge higher pricesand you build that reputation.
(30:33):
I know you got hundreds ofGoogle reviews and so when you
have that reputation, thatstrong sales process, you'll be
able to charge higher prices,and so you should benefit from
those higher prices.
It makes complete sense thatyour gross profit margin is
somewhere around 59%, which isamazing, but also you've been in
(30:53):
business for 20 years, soobviously someone that's just
getting in business for the lastcouple of years probably won't
be able to hit a 59% grossprofit margin.
But it's definitely attainableif you work at it and build that
reputation that you have.
So that makes complete sensefrom my perspective.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
For sure, and I encourage every business owner
I've talked to I encourage toincrease their prices.
Just the fact that you'retrading your labor for something
doesn't mean that your area orthe people in your area get to
dictate what your worth is.
And you'll never know what yourworth is until you constantly
(31:31):
are raising the prices.
I talked to a guy the other day, super frustrated, a business
owner that I coach and help out.
He's super frustrated and Isaid if you were to cut your
price or if you were to increaseyour prices 100%, what's your
result?
And he was like oh, he came upwith some stuff and I was like
the result is that you get thesame revenue as next year If 50%
(31:53):
of your clients stay in, 50 go.
You get the same revenue, butyou have to work 50% less.
And it was kind of aneye-opener for him.
And so I challenge anybodylistening to this just
constantly raise your pricesuntil the market tells you no.
We've been raising our prices10% every year since 2010.
And we have never.
(32:14):
We get a lot of no's on price,but we've never dipped in
revenue.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
And it sounds like you get a lot of no's, but you
also your close rates sound likethey stay pretty high even
though you are constantlyraising your prices.
And that goes back to dailytraining, role playing, that
thing that you're doing everyday to make sure your
salespeople are top notch andthat are showing that value
through the sales process.
So could you give some examplesof how your sales team is
showing value?
You give some examples of howyour sales team is showing value
(32:51):
and before the customer signsthe dotted line, what are they
doing?
That's building that trust,showing that value to get the
prospect to sign up.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
Fantastic question and a lot of this is going to
come down to.
I know people are like, oh,sales is one thing, marketing is
another.
They are one in the same.
People are like, oh, sales isone thing, marketing is another.
They are one in the same.
The sales guy needs to go thereand get you to sign on the
dotted line, but he's going tohave a lot easier of a chance to
get that if you looked at yourmarketing as a sales avenue as
(33:18):
well.
So, for instance, one of thethings we did and I read a book
by Dan Kennedy, who's a fabulousauthor, he's got so many books,
he's so good at what he doesbut he talks about selling
yourself before you even get tothe client, before they even
give you a call, and it's thingslike one of the things we offer
(33:39):
is a 100% money-back guarantee,and we've had to use that twice
since 2010.
But it's the value.
So when somebody goes, I needto wait for my wife or my
husband to be here to make thisdecision.
Well, you have 100% money backguarantee.
If, at any time, you want tocancel this project even before
(34:02):
it starts, we can do that, andso you're disarming them during
the sales process.
You're disarming them throughthe whole process because people
are afraid that a contractormight take their money and run.
But if you have something likethat, if you set up something
like that in your company, youcan add the prices and increase
your prices and you can give iteasier to your sales team to do
(34:25):
Not that they have an easy job,because it's never easy, but
you're setting them up forsuccess with that.
One of the other things we do islike free color consultations.
We do free lifetime supply oftouch up paint.
So if a client needs more paint, we send it to them.
We have Sherwin Williams orBenjamin Moore deliver it right
to their door.
We send it to them.
(34:45):
We have Sherwin-Williams orBenjamin Moore deliver it right
to their door.
So, adding things that work foryou as a business owner that
don't really take away from theamount of money that you're
going to bring home from yourprofit but add value to the
client.
For instance, we have a 15-yearlabor and material warranty on
all interior.
Everybody in our area has threeyears.
(35:06):
That's the max that we've seenin our area.
Average is about two.
So when a client, when somebodygoes, you guys are a lot higher
priced.
We take that price $10,000.
We divide it by 15 years and weshow them this is how much
you're paying for a year with usbecause it's covered for 15
years.
This is how much you're payingfor these guys because they're
(35:26):
only doing two years $10,000.
It's costing you $5,000 a yearversus $1,000 a year.
So those are the things thatyou show the client, that add
the value to them, where theylogically look at it and go hey,
there's a reason why Kia cameonto the market and took it by
storm.
Because they're telling youlike your, your, your vehicle's
warrantied for a hundredthousand miles.
(35:46):
You know, and you deal withsomebody who's like, yeah, my
Dodge went out at 35,000 miles,my transmission blew up, it was
out of warranty and all of asudden you see how that those
types of things can play into,how you add value as a business
owner, even in the paintingindustry, and it doesn't have to
cost you a bunch of your profityeah, that's, that's incredible
.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
15 year uh, warranty on labor and material that
that's, that's the highest thatI've ever heard.
It that's that's pretty coolyeah, I mean.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Once again, though, it's easier to sell when it's,
uh, when you've you've got thosethings for them, uh, to be able
to take care of them right, youget the money back, guarantee,
free color consults, freelifetime supply of paint and
then the warranty on top of that.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
So that's all.
You're just value stacking tomake it as much of a no brainer
as possible for.
And I'm sure on top of that,I'm sure you have Well, I know
you have hundreds of Googlereviews and then probably before
and after pictures andtestimonials and all this stuff
(36:52):
to really just yeah, one of thethings when we were a young
company.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
again, I don't know how other companies work.
I've never been a part ofanother painting company or
really another constructioncompany.
I worked at Kmart for sixmonths, then my church for four
years, then I started a company.
So I don't have this workexperience that I can go off of
how this was done at anothercompany, just questions that I
ask people.
But one of the things I thoughtwhen I was maybe six or eight
(37:18):
months into the business, maybea year, I thought don't people
want to see business licensesand references and my Google
reviews and all this kind ofstuff?
So I used to just get theseManila envelopes from OfficeMax
and I would print up those pagesand I would put them in there.
And I used to bring a littleprinter with me and a computer
and I would do your proposal andI would print it up and I would
(37:40):
put it in there and I would sitdown with you and I would go
over that and I'll never forgetthe first man that looked at me
and he said I've been gettingwork done on this house for 26
years and nobody has ever showedme a list of references.
Nobody has ever showed me theirbusiness license and I just
thought it was just whateverybody did.
So even little things like thatadd value and it costs you
(38:01):
pennies.
So if you're not, if you'rejust sending somebody an email,
you're losing all the value thatyou can build in there.
Give them a list of yourreferences.
Give it to them in paper.
People love it.
When people like paper, I meanyou send it to them on email.
It's just going to get lost andthey'll probably delete it and
they'll never read it.
But you show it to them onpaper.
Here's references.
Call any of those.
(38:21):
Here are my Google reviews.
Here's my Better BusinessBureau review.
Here is a copy of my insurance.
Call them and make sure thatit's valid.
All of that kind of stuff andanything else that you can think
of are things as well that costyou almost nothing, that you
add value to yourself when youshow it to somebody.
(38:59):
Awesome yeah that makes a lot ofsense and it's straightforward
and that's a great way to setyourself apart.
Like you said, painters,especially when we go to sell
something, we think that, oh, Ican just write it on the back of
a business card and walk out ofthere and you're hurting
yourself.
You're just hurting yourself.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
Awesome.
Well, Gabriel, this was anawesome conversation.
I feel like I could go on forthe next couple hours just
asking you more questions, but Iwant to be respectful of your
time.
Do you have any last thoughtsfor painting business owners out
there on improving theirbusiness, maybe growing and
staying beyond 3 million inrevenue, whatever you got?
(39:37):
Do you have any last thoughtsfor the audience?
Speaker 2 (39:40):
Really just comes down to love your people, man.
I mean, that's really, that'sreally the thing.
Just make sure that they feelvalued, make sure that they feel
heard.
You're not going to be aperfect leader.
There's going to be people whocomplain.
I heard the other day somebodysaid the leader is always the
hero or the villain.
You're either going to be theguy that saves the day or you're
going to be the villain, andsometimes you're both of it in
(40:01):
the same day.
But just know that you're doingthis for yourself, but you're
doing this for them, and beunreasonable when it comes down
to what you want out of yourcompany.
It's your company.
But love them and coach themand help them along as best as
you can.
But treat them right.
Cast the vision and you'll getthere.
(40:23):
The Bible says where there isno vision, the people perish.
And so you got to cast thatvision for your team where we're
going and what's in it for them, what kind of position could
they have in the future and thenit'll help you attract really
good people, which will help yougrow a really great business.
Speaker 1 (40:40):
Amazing.
Thank you so much, gabriel, andfor our listeners with that, we
will see you next week.
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