April 24, 2025 • 31 mins
Mark joins Tony to discuss a recent one-star review and the valuable lessons learned about client relationships in property management.
• Breaking down a negative review situation that occurred when an owner relationship went sideways
• Examining the policy that allows owners to handle their own rent-ready work and why it creates problems
• Understanding how miscommunication about property standards leads to frustration and conflict
• Discussing proper escalation procedures when client relationships become strained
• Exploring how responses to negative reviews should address future potential clients, not just the reviewer
• Analyzing how mission alignment with clients prevents negative experiences
• Considering policy changes that eliminate variables and create clearer expectations
Look for our upcoming newsletter poll about whether you allow owners to handle their own make-ready repairs on property onboarding.
Join fellow property management entrepreneurs and 6 expert coaches in a small, private high level event at a mansion style venue with a private chef and personally selected attendees to maximize the value you receive while at the event.
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Save the dates! July 13th - 16th, 2025
visit pmsuccess.com for more value packed property management related information or to hire Tony as your property management coach.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Working with Mark has been a horrible experience.
I live in the Arcadia area andwe had the nightmare of dealing
with Mark.
He seems to be too busy to takecare of customers' needs, in my
opinion.
I've lived in this area for 45years and I will tell my friends
do not use these guys.
That was his Google review.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Welcome to the Property Management Success
Podcast, where we interviewleaders in the industry to
uncover the secrets toprofitability, efficiency and
achieving true freedom.
Whether it's your time, moneyor lifestyle, I'm your host,
tony Klein, and I'm here to helpyou build a wildly successful
property management business.
Let's get to it.
Welcome back to another episodeof the Property Management
(00:42):
Success Podcast.
We've got Mark Brower in thehouse for the Property
Management Aid Station.
Mark, what is going on with youtoday?
We both have black hats today.
It's funny because I don'tthink either one of us have worn
a hat in the podcast.
We're both wearing the blackhats crew today.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Yeah, and you and I are going to be in the Grand
Canyon soon and that right thereis a running belt like one of
those elastic ones that you canput goose and like, so I was
using that, uh, hiking up amountain.
I'm in Logan, utah, right now.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
I love it.
You know, that's the.
That's actually the reason whyI'm so soon as we finish this
podcast.
I've got my running gear onalready.
I'm heading out the door.
I've got I don't know if youcan see this, but inside this
this is a like silver metallic.
It's called Omni heat and I'mtrying to do some heat training,
because I know you guys like ithot in Arizona and I'll be
(01:34):
leaving to go to the Cocodonatwo 50 in about nine days.
Oh my gosh, that's right.
So yeah, heat training.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Well, I'm a little hijacked.
We got on this, we got on thisand I'm like, hey, tony, can you
give me a couple more minutes?
And I'm just like delaying,delaying, delaying, starting
recording, because what I'mdoing right now, and where my
brain is completely hijacked, isI'm crafting a reply to a
one-star review, uh, that we goton Google and, and, and you
(02:06):
know what I usually do I usuallywrite an initial response and
then I read it and reflect, andread it and reflect, and then I
revise, revise, revise untilit's like okay, no, that's
really what I want to say and sothat's what I'm doing.
I'm revising it.
Um, this guy, um is really upset, like and and you know what, in
my experience, tony, mostpeople if they're frustrated,
(02:35):
you can, you can handle it withhigh enough skill that you can
exit the relationship and theydon't feel so incensed that they
that they feel like doing youharm on the way out, like, like
usually with clients it that'sbeen my experience Like, if
you're, if you're high skilledand and you're really clear with
(02:56):
your communication and younotice when things are going off
the rails and you address itwith confidence, firmness and
respect, usually you can exit aclient relationship without
getting fiery arrows shot intoyour chest multiple times.
This is not one of those cases.
(03:17):
This guy is pissed and in myexperience, people only get
pissed if they feel personallyinsulted.
It's not just that, oh, thingswent wrong with the service, or
oh, you know I'm frustrated, oroh, we didn't have good
communication.
(03:37):
It's like something, the waysomething was handled like
caused them to feel personallyinsulted and then to, to, to
work that out.
Now they're really going to tryto do as much harm as they can.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
I think that's true.
I think that there's anotherpiece of it for me where I've
seen where there's communicationbut they still don't feel like
they've been heard.
So I think I think you can getout of a relationship where both
parties are heard and there'sjust a disconnect and we're just
not a good fit.
But where I've seen people gooff the rails is where they feel
(04:16):
like they're communicating,they want to get their way.
It's just not in our system togive them their way, and so we
let them know that, and yetthey'll still come back and
instead of accepting it they'recoming from and that we
validated that their position isreasonable and rational.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Now we've got a foundation for the beginning of
respect, because then, even ifwe disagree, we can just own our
part of it and say well, youknow, I see where you're coming
from and I, you know, from yourperspective, I agree.
That's completely reasonableand rational.
And I'm glad we're talkingabout this because I'm just
going to be really honest withyou I can't meet that.
I can't, I'm not going to beable to meet that expectation.
Let's get you, you know, let'sminimize the damage to you now
(05:12):
that we know this clearly, andget you to someone else that can
meet that.
Well, what are you talking about?
I want to work with you.
Yep, I get it, and you know,forgive me, we are extremely
rigid with our propertystandards and the requirements
of support in our ownerrelationships, and right now
(05:37):
we're losing on both of thoseends.
Quality of service we want todeliver is to be super
particular about notcompromising on the standards
for the property and thestandards for the level of
support we need from clients.
And we get it.
We're not the fit for everybodyand it's totally fine.
But when we find that out, whenwe get clear like we just did
(06:01):
the thing that we can do bestfor you is to refer you to
somebody else that we thinkwould be a better fit, and try
to make that transition smoothand fast, because we realize
you're losing $80 a day as yourproperty sits vacant right now.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
So this is going to be an interesting podcast for me
, because I have listened to youopenly say look, if we get a
bad review, if we get a one-starreview, I am going to own it.
And so I want to try toreconcile these two things,
where you're upset that thisperson is out of line and I
don't know if we're going to diginto the details, and the
(06:38):
specifics of it.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Yes, we are.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Okay, so we're going to get into the details of how
we got to this point where we'vegot this one-star review, but
I've also heard you say veryemphatically that if something
goes wrong in my company, I ownit 100%.
Okay, so let's dive in andlet's talk a little bit.
Before we reconcile those.
Let's talk a little bit abouthow we got to this place with
(07:00):
this gentleman in the firstplace.
Yes, so one month ago, withthis gentleman in the first
place.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Yes, yes.
So one month ago he signed upwith us.
We went and did a rent-readyinspection and gave him his
report, and we give owners theoption.
So maybe this is a learningopportunity right now, right
here, at this moment, wecurrently have a policy that
gives the owners the option ofbringing their own property into
(07:23):
rent-ready compliance accordingto our standards.
So maybe and not just a small,maybe, a significant maybe maybe
this is an opportunity for usto change that policy.
I would love to change thatpolicy.
I would love to say, if you'regoing to have us and I think
we've talked about this beforeand I think your policy was nope
(07:44):
, we're doing it right we'regoing to have us and I think, I
think we've talked about thisbefore and I think your policy
was nope, we're doing it right,we're going to get your property
into rent ready compliance.
That's why you hired us.
That's part of our plan.
Um, if you want to do your ownwork, then we're not the right
fit for you, is that right?
Speaker 2 (07:56):
That's right and and we did get some pushback from
people.
But but I'd rather know thatnow that they weren't a good fit
than actually signing anagreement with them and then
moving forward.
So most of our people that wesaid that to they were ready to
turn it over to us.
They thought that they couldget it rent ready.
They thought they could go onthe nights and weekends and do
some painting or bring in theircousin Joe and have him do some
(08:19):
painting or whatever.
But to me, when you hire aprofessional property management
company, you are, you aresigning over the legal
authorization to authorize themto manage the property.
From that point forward, yeah,you're giving them the keys,
you're giving them the authority, and we still go out and do.
(08:40):
We did our.
We had a setup fee that wecharged that allowed us to go
and do a new property walkthrough.
That documented the conditionof the property when we brought
it into our portfolio.
And then we also gave them adocument that had our standards
and we were very clear that,because it had our reputation on
the line, we were going tobring all properties that came
into our portfolio up to ourstandards and we just wouldn't
(09:04):
allow them to do that work.
As a matter of fact from themoment they signed that
agreement, they were no longerauthorized to go on the property
without us.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
There you go.
I love that it's so strong.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Well, it's all about setting expectations up front.
Because those are ourexpectations, so I'd rather set
them up front.
Let's those are ourexpectations, so I'd rather set
them up front.
Let's have that discussion,then sign the agreement and then
move forward.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
I love it.
I love it Well, I think that'smaybe where we're trending.
So currently we have a maybe afailed policy of letting owners
do their own rent, ready, turnwork, and so this gentleman got
our list.
He said he's going to handle, Ithink, all or at least most of
it himself.
Well, even though he acted likehe agreed with our critical we
(09:54):
have critical, recommended andwe have critical and recommended
about the critical items.
He said he was going to do ithimself.
We went and checked on theproperty.
They weren't all done after hetold us they were done.
Then he said that he went outand did the rest of them and
then they weren't done.
So there's another problemthere, because I know for sure
(10:14):
in our company in the past wehave talked about a policy where
they get one chance at doingtheir part of the list and
anything.
When they tell us it's done,anything that's not done,
they're agreeing that we will doit at the cost we had estimated
, without discussion.
So that's another place that wefailed and we could have done
better, right?
(10:34):
So ultimately, there was someback and forth, back and forth,
and then and then, and then wegot to a point where he's like
well, I'm, I'm leaving thesethings in the property in a
locked cabinet, which iscompletely contrary to our
policy.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
You mean, you don't, you don't, you don't rent out
properties, but only rent outhalf of them and let them keep
the you know no, terrible,terrible idea.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
So so I think that was the straw that broke the
camel's back.
Plus, it was so aggressive andrude on the phone with our PM
that was onboarding this accountthat she's like you know what.
I just don't think this is theright fit.
And so so yesterday, um, here'sanother failure.
What should have happened is,uh, it should have escalated
beyond the property manager.
Property manager got thebusiness development manager
(11:20):
back involved to have theconversation about hey, no, no,
we talked about we have highstandards for the properties and
the owners that we work with.
You're not meeting thestandards, so let's just divest.
And part ways, thatconversation did not happen.
Live, it happened over textterrible idea.
And um.
And so the guy's raging, pissedlike, like, and.
(11:42):
And also I failed, uh, likelike, when it got kicked back to
the bdm.
He sort of let me know about it, but I didn't get a clear
signal like hey, mark, I needyou to call this guy to
de-escalate things, that ourreputation isn't tarnished.
And so I misread that.
He kind of wanted me to do that, and maybe he thought it was
(12:04):
optional, or he didn't realizethe risk was this high that he
would start just raging againstus online, and so so those are
at least three or four issuesalong the way, so here's here's
the review.
Working with Mark has been ahorrible experience.
First of all, I've never,talked to this guy.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
That's horrible in my mind.
I love talking to Mark.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Thank you.
Working with Mark has been ahorrible experience.
I live in the Arcadia area andwe have the nightmare of dealing
with Mark.
He seems to be too busy to takecare of customers' needs.
In my opinion.
I've lived in this area for 45years and I will tell my friends
do not use these guys.
That was his Google review.
(12:48):
Let's read the Yelp review.
Oh, and, by the way, he didn'tstop there.
He went on to all of our socialmedia and started dropping
nasty comments there too.
So this is like a really goodexample of what you do not want
to do.
There are so many ways we couldhave avoided this.
(13:10):
Better policy Better policy,better communication level.
Setting expectations Okay, yelpreview Not a very good company
to work with.
I own three homes and my placein Moon Valley was going to be
managed by these guys About twomonths into the process.
That's a lie.
It was 30 days after.
(13:38):
A detailed list that wasactually ridiculous was sent for
$5,000 in improvements.
Okay, that's a fragmentedsentence.
It didn't complete the thought.
They just seemed to be out oftouch caps.
Capital O, capital T and notrealistic capital R at all.
Capital A I would not recommendthem to anyone.
Capital A on anyone after myexperience and wasted months of
time Absolutely ridiculous in myopinion.
(14:01):
Okay, so something I do knowfrom the limited research I've
done.
This has all just come to myattention in the last.
You know just a little bit here, but on a recorded call with
someone on my staff over thelast day or two, at one point he
said listen, this is just apiece of shit property, just
(14:22):
rent it out.
So I mean clearly not the rightrelationship we're looking for.
We're not looking to work withslumlords.
We're not looking.
We don't ever want to work withsomebody that has the mindset
that this is just a rental or apiece of shit rental.
We don't want to do that at all.
And so we failed to set I thinkmy sales guys are really good
(14:45):
at this point of setting, youknow, high expectations, but
sometimes that just makes peoplewant to work with you even more
.
But then once we got into thethick of it, you know again, I
think, going back, I think if wehad had your policy of like the
only way we're moving forwardis if you agree to all these
things, you send us the moneyand we're doing the work, and if
(15:06):
that's not a fit for you, thenat least you're going to be, you
know, annoyed, but you'reprobably not going to like go on
a rampage like this and try todestroy our reputation, right.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Yeah, this, uh.
So I have a question for youand I know um, I think we've
said this on the podcast earlyon, but what's your company
mission?
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Helping good people do more good, okay so to me that
would have.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
At least if this guy was having these types of
conversations early on, thatwould have screened this guy out
, because if he's talking aboutthe piece of shit property and
just rent it out, to me that'snot helping.
Good people do more good.
If you're saying, put somebodyto live in this property and I
already know that it's not agood quality property to me that
(15:55):
would screen that out 100%.
To go back to what you saidbefore, so I do think that
there's a couple of failurepoints that you had with this.
Number one.
It is allowing the owners to dotheir own work.
If they've decided to turn thatproperty over to you, one of
two things needs to happen thereeither needs to be a deadline
(16:17):
of when they're going to getthat work completed, or you're
going to bring in your own team.
But I don't even like that andthat's why we didn't have that
policy.
Our policy was great.
You've turned it over to aprofessional property management
company.
We have professional vendorsthat we work with.
We have skilled tradesmen.
We are going to put thisproperty into a condition that
we can be proud to have our nameassociated with it and then,
(16:40):
once we bring it to thatcondition, we are going to hold
tenants accountable tomaintaining it in that same
condition and if they don't,then if they do damage to it,
we'll be able to withhold itfrom the security deposit.
So by raising the condition ofthe property when they first
come into our portfolio, we areraising the level of tenants
(17:02):
that we're going to attract toit.
Because if a tenant is willingto move into a property that
needs to be painted scuffs inthe walls, holes in the doors,
stains in the carpet if they'rewilling to live like that, then
they're going to be okay withtreating your property like that
and it's not going to getbetter over time, it's going to
(17:23):
continue to get worse.
So I think that's one of thefirst areas.
The second area that I see isyou allowing them to do some of
that work and then saying I mean, to me this sounds a little bit
like the IRS we're going toallow you to do your own taxes,
but if you screw it up, we'regoing to hammer you with
penalties and interest, so nothaving any communication about
(17:48):
what happened after the fact,and just saying, well, now we're
going to go in and do the workthat you said you were going to
do.
To me that sets really bad.
It just says poor expectationsbecause I thought I did what I
was supposed to do and then Iturn the property over to you
(18:09):
and then all of a sudden I getthis bill and even if he's in
the wrong, it's hard to have himhave that perspective after
he's already had that emotionalgut punch of being charged for
doing work that he did in hismind.
Yeah, so for me that is an areawhere I would look at how do we
(18:30):
clean up our onboarding andmake it a better experience.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Yep, Should I read my ?
You want me to read my reply.
You can critique my reply.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Yeah, let's hear it.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
I usually pride myself on taking ownership, but
also being fair.
So I might still be in the heatof the moment.
Honestly, this is so fresh andraw that this might not be the
right reply.
Hi Ryan, I sent a directprivate reply to your Yelp
review yesterday requesting achance to talk to you directly
so I can better understand yourconcerns.
(19:05):
My cell phone number is602-228-9617.
I am traveling with family, butif you text me, I will make it
a priority to take your call andaddress your concerns if you're
willing to do so.
It is rare for us to havefriction like this with a new
client during the onboardingprocess, so I'm especially
interested in finding out how wegot here from your perspective.
(19:26):
I am sorry we failed to morequickly determine that this was
not the right businessrelationship.
This resulted in lost time onyour part, and I can appreciate
this is very frustrating.
It seems clear we didn'tcommunicate our rent-ready
standards and reach a solidagreement with you about them.
(19:47):
In one of the calls you saidthis is just a little piece of
shit property, just rent it.
This was not the right businessrelationship for either of us,
and this experience is causingme to question our policy of
allowing owners to do work tobring property up to our
standards.
We are deconstructing thetimeline now and we'll be making
(20:09):
this a major focus of ourlearning and training and next
week's all company meeting.
I'm sorry we failed you.
Um, it was kind of a dig when I, when I put his quote in there,
wasn't it?
Speaker 2 (20:24):
I'm throwing him under the bus a little bit, a
little bit, um, you know so.
So I went to and this has beenthis has probably been 10 or 15
years ago, but I went to apresentation where Todd Breen
was talking about how to respondto Yelp and Google reviews and
(20:46):
his position was and I'veadopted this ever since is we're
not responding to that review,we're responding to any other
possible owner that might bereading our reviews.
Totally yeah.
So if I'm listening or if I'mreading that from a potential
client's perspective, does thedig help my cause and help
(21:09):
explain it as to why we weremisaligned, or does it make me
feel like, if it goes sideways,I'm going to be publicly, uh,
put on blast?
Speaker 1 (21:26):
um, yeah, I'm.
That's the part I'm strugglingwith.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
So my thoughts is and it's funny because this came up
right before we hopped on hereso this is still fresh for Mark
and he's feverishly retyping hiswristband I'm so distracted
Sorry.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
Sorry, this is so unexpected.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Yeah, but I do think it's important to say how you
were misaligned and where youwere misaligned.
You, in my opinion, did havesome things that you could
reexamine with your policies.
No-transcript.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
No, no, we were right on it.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Yeah.
So I think there's.
I think there's something youcan address about.
Once we received the property,uh, in the condition that you I
don't want to say claimed it wasin, because that word is kind
of a trigger word Um but butonce you turn the property over
to us, we compared it to ourstandard list and discovered
(22:59):
that there were still thingsthat were unrepaired,
uncorrected.
So I do think it's worth sayingthat there's things that he did
to cause us to be in thissituation.
I'm still on the fence with thequote too.
I think it does show hisattitude, but also, even from a
(23:25):
quote standpoint in my policy,to put any sort of curse words
in uh, in print, coming from youknow, being attributed to me,
even though it's a direct quotefrom a business standpoint.
So take it what uh, how youwill, but uh.
(23:46):
So what's your desired outcomewith this?
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Um, to learn, to get better, to hopefully just
overhaul the whole policy sothis could never happen again.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
What do you think your business development people
are going to think about you ifyou were to overhaul this
policy and say nope, when theyturn it over to us.
We are going to be handling anymake readies from this point
forward and, uh, how do youthink business development is
(24:16):
going to handle that?
Speaker 1 (24:18):
I think they, I think they would.
Well, you know they'recommissioned, so I don't.
I don't know how long, I don'tknow how often this comes up.
You know what I mean.
So that's something we'll haveto deconstruct Like up.
You know what I mean.
So that's something we'll haveto deconstruct like if they
think like this is like wow,like 95 of our owners want us to
do the work anyway, uh.
Or if it's like no, in ourmarket right now, like the
(24:40):
majority of the owners want tohave a crack at some of the
lists themselves, and if so,then then we need to like be
like one and done like like you,okay, so our guy, like we're
not even, we're never going back.
Like you said, the work wasdone on this date.
We sent our vendor with thefull list of your items and our
(25:00):
items, instructing them to doanything that isn't done and,
and you've already agreed to bebilled for that um, there's no
discussion at this point.
Now, some people are stillgoing to be upset.
Um, but um, with clear evidenceand photos and everything and a
clear agreement.
That's an experiment we couldrun and it might be slightly
(25:23):
better than than what we had inthis case.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Right.
I still think in that case, ifI've thought that I've done the
work and I turned it over to youand you and I can have
different expectations orunderstandings of what it means
to have the property cleaned,what it means to have the
(25:46):
property properly painted, wecould have different ideas of
what that means, but ultimatelythe property needs to be to your
standards, not to his, in orderto have it enter your portfolio
, to your standards, not to his,in order to have it enter your
portfolio.
When you do property turns inbetween tenants, are you letting
them do the work at that point?
It is still our process, butmost of them don't, because a
lot of them are out of state atthat point.
(26:06):
So here's something that I talkabout when I'm having my
coaching calls, which is everytime you introduce another
variable.
We've actually talked aboutthis on here oh yeah trying to
figure out how many nuts or howmany?
yeah, yep yep, yeah, so anyway,anytime you introduce a new
variable, you don't just doublethe amount of complications you
you exponentially,exponentiallyentially create
(26:30):
challenges.
And so I think that if most ofyour people aren't doing it, the
ones that are opting to areopting to, in my opinion,
because you're allowing it.
If you didn't allow it, if youwere to position it that every
day that the property is vacantcosts them X dollars a day, and
(26:55):
by doing the work themselves,they're having to track down the
trades, they're having to goback and inspect the work,
they're having to tell you thatit's done.
That adds more hassle, moremoney and more vacancy on their
part and more vacancy on theirpart.
And by you handling themaintenance on the onboarding
(27:15):
and at tenant turn, you are ableto put professional vendors
that you have a relationshipwith, that respond quickly, that
provide good work, that standbehind their work, and you're
able to get that done andminimize their vacancy with zero
in frustration or friction fromthem on their part, because
(27:36):
they're not having to go andschedule this stuff after work
or take time off of work or goon the internet and find the
trades.
So I think you can accomplisheliminating those options,
creating a much betterstreamlined system for your team
and ultimately provide a betterservice for your clients.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
Totally Love it, love all of it.
Let's do it All right.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
I'm still distracted.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
I'm still distracted.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Yeah, good conversation.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
Hopefully somebody got something out of this.
If you think I should haveworded that differently, post a
comment here.
I am a sponge.
I want to learn.
I want to be the best, bestversion of myself.
So you know, share with us whatyour experience has been in
really owning the outcome andyou know fully owning it when,
when someone you know blasts youonline, instead of just getting
(28:32):
reactive and upset andslandering them back Maybe I'm
slandering them back with thatcome, with throwing them under
the bus with that comment.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
So I don't know.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Within the next two days I'll have a final version
of that review.
So if you want to go check outMark Brower properties on Google
business profile, you'll seethe final version properties on
Google business profile.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
You'll see the final version.
Yeah, okay, and I am curious tosee if owners, or if property
management company owners allowthe property owners to do the
make ready on onboarding.
So I'm actually going to haveVanessa update our poll that
goes out in the newsletter thisweek and that will be the poll
question.
So if you're not, if you arenot signed up for the property
(29:17):
management success newsletter, Iwant you to go ahead and enroll
.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
That was my dog.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
Moose.
But yeah, let's go ahead andget you enrolled and that way
you can vote on the poll.
Okay, let's do it.
So with that, Mark, I thinkit's time to get these guys out
of here.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Get out of here yeah, you're done at the aid station
and go hit that next segmenthard and we'll see you soon.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
Thanks for tuning in to the Property Management
Success Podcast.
We'll be back with anothervalue-packed episode to help you
level up your propertymanagement game.
If you've got somethingvaluable out of today's episode,
please share it with a friendor colleague, and don't forget
to subscribe and leave a reviewso you never miss out on future
insights and strategies andtactics.
Until next time.
(30:05):
Here's to your success.
Working with Mark has been a horrible experience.
I live in the Arcadia area andwe had the nightmare of dealing
with Mark.
He seems to be too busy to takecare of customers' needs, in my
opinion.
I've lived in this area for 45years and I will tell my friends
do not use these guys.
That was his Google review.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Welcome to the Property Management Success
Podcast, where we interviewleaders in the industry to
uncover the secrets toprofitability, efficiency and
achieving true freedom.
Whether it's your time, moneyor lifestyle, I'm your host,
tony Klein, and I'm here to helpyou build a wildly successful
property management business.
Let's get to it.
Welcome back to another episodeof the Property Management
(00:42):
Success Podcast.
We've got Mark Brower in thehouse for the Property
Management Aid Station.
Mark, what is going on with youtoday?
We both have black hats today.
It's funny because I don'tthink either one of us have worn
a hat in the podcast.
We're both wearing the blackhats crew today.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Yeah, and you and I are going to be in the Grand
Canyon soon and that right thereis a running belt like one of
those elastic ones that you canput goose and like, so I was
using that, uh, hiking up amountain.
I'm in Logan, utah, right now.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
I love it.
You know, that's the.
That's actually the reason whyI'm so soon as we finish this
podcast.
I've got my running gear onalready.
I'm heading out the door.
I've got I don't know if youcan see this, but inside this
this is a like silver metallic.
It's called Omni heat and I'mtrying to do some heat training,
because I know you guys like ithot in Arizona and I'll be
(01:34):
leaving to go to the Cocodonatwo 50 in about nine days.
Oh my gosh, that's right.
So yeah, heat training.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Well, I'm a little hijacked.
We got on this, we got on thisand I'm like, hey, tony, can you
give me a couple more minutes?
And I'm just like delaying,delaying, delaying, starting
recording, because what I'mdoing right now, and where my
brain is completely hijacked, isI'm crafting a reply to a
one-star review, uh, that we goton Google and, and, and you
(02:06):
know what I usually do I usuallywrite an initial response and
then I read it and reflect, andread it and reflect, and then I
revise, revise, revise untilit's like okay, no, that's
really what I want to say and sothat's what I'm doing.
I'm revising it.
Um, this guy, um is really upset, like and and you know what, in
my experience, tony, mostpeople if they're frustrated,
(02:35):
you can, you can handle it withhigh enough skill that you can
exit the relationship and theydon't feel so incensed that they
that they feel like doing youharm on the way out, like, like
usually with clients it that'sbeen my experience Like, if
you're, if you're high skilledand and you're really clear with
(02:56):
your communication and younotice when things are going off
the rails and you address itwith confidence, firmness and
respect, usually you can exit aclient relationship without
getting fiery arrows shot intoyour chest multiple times.
This is not one of those cases.
(03:17):
This guy is pissed and in myexperience, people only get
pissed if they feel personallyinsulted.
It's not just that, oh, thingswent wrong with the service, or
oh, you know I'm frustrated, oroh, we didn't have good
communication.
(03:37):
It's like something, the waysomething was handled like
caused them to feel personallyinsulted and then to, to, to
work that out.
Now they're really going to tryto do as much harm as they can.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
I think that's true.
I think that there's anotherpiece of it for me where I've
seen where there's communicationbut they still don't feel like
they've been heard.
So I think I think you can getout of a relationship where both
parties are heard and there'sjust a disconnect and we're just
not a good fit.
But where I've seen people gooff the rails is where they feel
(04:16):
like they're communicating,they want to get their way.
It's just not in our system togive them their way, and so we
let them know that, and yetthey'll still come back and
instead of accepting it they'recoming from and that we
validated that their position isreasonable and rational.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Now we've got a foundation for the beginning of
respect, because then, even ifwe disagree, we can just own our
part of it and say well, youknow, I see where you're coming
from and I, you know, from yourperspective, I agree.
That's completely reasonableand rational.
And I'm glad we're talkingabout this because I'm just
going to be really honest withyou I can't meet that.
I can't, I'm not going to beable to meet that expectation.
Let's get you, you know, let'sminimize the damage to you now
(05:12):
that we know this clearly, andget you to someone else that can
meet that.
Well, what are you talking about?
I want to work with you.
Yep, I get it, and you know,forgive me, we are extremely
rigid with our propertystandards and the requirements
of support in our ownerrelationships, and right now
(05:37):
we're losing on both of thoseends.
Quality of service we want todeliver is to be super
particular about notcompromising on the standards
for the property and thestandards for the level of
support we need from clients.
And we get it.
We're not the fit for everybodyand it's totally fine.
But when we find that out, whenwe get clear like we just did
(06:01):
the thing that we can do bestfor you is to refer you to
somebody else that we thinkwould be a better fit, and try
to make that transition smoothand fast, because we realize
you're losing $80 a day as yourproperty sits vacant right now.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
So this is going to be an interesting podcast for me
, because I have listened to youopenly say look, if we get a
bad review, if we get a one-starreview, I am going to own it.
And so I want to try toreconcile these two things,
where you're upset that thisperson is out of line and I
don't know if we're going to diginto the details, and the
(06:38):
specifics of it.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Yes, we are.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Okay, so we're going to get into the details of how
we got to this point where we'vegot this one-star review, but
I've also heard you say veryemphatically that if something
goes wrong in my company, I ownit 100%.
Okay, so let's dive in andlet's talk a little bit.
Before we reconcile those.
Let's talk a little bit abouthow we got to this place with
(07:00):
this gentleman in the firstplace.
Yes, so one month ago, withthis gentleman in the first
place.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Yes, yes.
So one month ago he signed upwith us.
We went and did a rent-readyinspection and gave him his
report, and we give owners theoption.
So maybe this is a learningopportunity right now, right
here, at this moment, wecurrently have a policy that
gives the owners the option ofbringing their own property into
(07:23):
rent-ready compliance accordingto our standards.
So maybe and not just a small,maybe, a significant maybe maybe
this is an opportunity for usto change that policy.
I would love to change thatpolicy.
I would love to say, if you'regoing to have us and I think
we've talked about this beforeand I think your policy was nope
(07:44):
, we're doing it right we'regoing to have us and I think, I
think we've talked about thisbefore and I think your policy
was nope, we're doing it right,we're going to get your property
into rent ready compliance.
That's why you hired us.
That's part of our plan.
Um, if you want to do your ownwork, then we're not the right
fit for you, is that right?
Speaker 2 (07:56):
That's right and and we did get some pushback from
people.
But but I'd rather know thatnow that they weren't a good fit
than actually signing anagreement with them and then
moving forward.
So most of our people that wesaid that to they were ready to
turn it over to us.
They thought that they couldget it rent ready.
They thought they could go onthe nights and weekends and do
some painting or bring in theircousin Joe and have him do some
(08:19):
painting or whatever.
But to me, when you hire aprofessional property management
company, you are, you aresigning over the legal
authorization to authorize themto manage the property.
From that point forward, yeah,you're giving them the keys,
you're giving them the authority, and we still go out and do.
(08:40):
We did our.
We had a setup fee that wecharged that allowed us to go
and do a new property walkthrough.
That documented the conditionof the property when we brought
it into our portfolio.
And then we also gave them adocument that had our standards
and we were very clear that,because it had our reputation on
the line, we were going tobring all properties that came
into our portfolio up to ourstandards and we just wouldn't
(09:04):
allow them to do that work.
As a matter of fact from themoment they signed that
agreement, they were no longerauthorized to go on the property
without us.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
There you go.
I love that it's so strong.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Well, it's all about setting expectations up front.
Because those are ourexpectations, so I'd rather set
them up front.
Let's those are ourexpectations, so I'd rather set
them up front.
Let's have that discussion,then sign the agreement and then
move forward.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
I love it.
I love it Well, I think that'smaybe where we're trending.
So currently we have a maybe afailed policy of letting owners
do their own rent, ready, turnwork, and so this gentleman got
our list.
He said he's going to handle, Ithink, all or at least most of
it himself.
Well, even though he acted likehe agreed with our critical we
(09:54):
have critical, recommended andwe have critical and recommended
about the critical items.
He said he was going to do ithimself.
We went and checked on theproperty.
They weren't all done after hetold us they were done.
Then he said that he went outand did the rest of them and
then they weren't done.
So there's another problemthere, because I know for sure
(10:14):
in our company in the past wehave talked about a policy where
they get one chance at doingtheir part of the list and
anything.
When they tell us it's done,anything that's not done,
they're agreeing that we will doit at the cost we had estimated
, without discussion.
So that's another place that wefailed and we could have done
better, right?
(10:34):
So ultimately, there was someback and forth, back and forth,
and then and then, and then wegot to a point where he's like
well, I'm, I'm leaving thesethings in the property in a
locked cabinet, which iscompletely contrary to our
policy.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
You mean, you don't, you don't, you don't rent out
properties, but only rent outhalf of them and let them keep
the you know no, terrible,terrible idea.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
So so I think that was the straw that broke the
camel's back.
Plus, it was so aggressive andrude on the phone with our PM
that was onboarding this accountthat she's like you know what.
I just don't think this is theright fit.
And so so yesterday, um, here'sanother failure.
What should have happened is,uh, it should have escalated
beyond the property manager.
Property manager got thebusiness development manager
(11:20):
back involved to have theconversation about hey, no, no,
we talked about we have highstandards for the properties and
the owners that we work with.
You're not meeting thestandards, so let's just divest.
And part ways, thatconversation did not happen.
Live, it happened over textterrible idea.
And um.
And so the guy's raging, pissedlike, like, and.
(11:42):
And also I failed, uh, likelike, when it got kicked back to
the bdm.
He sort of let me know about it, but I didn't get a clear
signal like hey, mark, I needyou to call this guy to
de-escalate things, that ourreputation isn't tarnished.
And so I misread that.
He kind of wanted me to do that, and maybe he thought it was
(12:04):
optional, or he didn't realizethe risk was this high that he
would start just raging againstus online, and so so those are
at least three or four issuesalong the way, so here's here's
the review.
Working with Mark has been ahorrible experience.
First of all, I've never,talked to this guy.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
That's horrible in my mind.
I love talking to Mark.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Thank you.
Working with Mark has been ahorrible experience.
I live in the Arcadia area andwe have the nightmare of dealing
with Mark.
He seems to be too busy to takecare of customers' needs.
In my opinion.
I've lived in this area for 45years and I will tell my friends
do not use these guys.
That was his Google review.
(12:48):
Let's read the Yelp review.
Oh, and, by the way, he didn'tstop there.
He went on to all of our socialmedia and started dropping
nasty comments there too.
So this is like a really goodexample of what you do not want
to do.
There are so many ways we couldhave avoided this.
(13:10):
Better policy Better policy,better communication level.
Setting expectations Okay, yelpreview Not a very good company
to work with.
I own three homes and my placein Moon Valley was going to be
managed by these guys About twomonths into the process.
That's a lie.
It was 30 days after.
(13:38):
A detailed list that wasactually ridiculous was sent for
$5,000 in improvements.
Okay, that's a fragmentedsentence.
It didn't complete the thought.
They just seemed to be out oftouch caps.
Capital O, capital T and notrealistic capital R at all.
Capital A I would not recommendthem to anyone.
Capital A on anyone after myexperience and wasted months of
time Absolutely ridiculous in myopinion.
(14:01):
Okay, so something I do knowfrom the limited research I've
done.
This has all just come to myattention in the last.
You know just a little bit here, but on a recorded call with
someone on my staff over thelast day or two, at one point he
said listen, this is just apiece of shit property, just
(14:22):
rent it out.
So I mean clearly not the rightrelationship we're looking for.
We're not looking to work withslumlords.
We're not looking.
We don't ever want to work withsomebody that has the mindset
that this is just a rental or apiece of shit rental.
We don't want to do that at all.
And so we failed to set I thinkmy sales guys are really good
(14:45):
at this point of setting, youknow, high expectations, but
sometimes that just makes peoplewant to work with you even more
.
But then once we got into thethick of it, you know again, I
think, going back, I think if wehad had your policy of like the
only way we're moving forwardis if you agree to all these
things, you send us the moneyand we're doing the work, and if
(15:06):
that's not a fit for you, thenat least you're going to be, you
know, annoyed, but you'reprobably not going to like go on
a rampage like this and try todestroy our reputation, right.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Yeah, this, uh.
So I have a question for youand I know um, I think we've
said this on the podcast earlyon, but what's your company
mission?
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Helping good people do more good, okay so to me that
would have.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
At least if this guy was having these types of
conversations early on, thatwould have screened this guy out
, because if he's talking aboutthe piece of shit property and
just rent it out, to me that'snot helping.
Good people do more good.
If you're saying, put somebodyto live in this property and I
already know that it's not agood quality property to me that
(15:55):
would screen that out 100%.
To go back to what you saidbefore, so I do think that
there's a couple of failurepoints that you had with this.
Number one.
It is allowing the owners to dotheir own work.
If they've decided to turn thatproperty over to you, one of
two things needs to happen thereeither needs to be a deadline
(16:17):
of when they're going to getthat work completed, or you're
going to bring in your own team.
But I don't even like that andthat's why we didn't have that
policy.
Our policy was great.
You've turned it over to aprofessional property management
company.
We have professional vendorsthat we work with.
We have skilled tradesmen.
We are going to put thisproperty into a condition that
we can be proud to have our nameassociated with it and then,
(16:40):
once we bring it to thatcondition, we are going to hold
tenants accountable tomaintaining it in that same
condition and if they don't,then if they do damage to it,
we'll be able to withhold itfrom the security deposit.
So by raising the condition ofthe property when they first
come into our portfolio, we areraising the level of tenants
(17:02):
that we're going to attract toit.
Because if a tenant is willingto move into a property that
needs to be painted scuffs inthe walls, holes in the doors,
stains in the carpet if they'rewilling to live like that, then
they're going to be okay withtreating your property like that
and it's not going to getbetter over time, it's going to
(17:23):
continue to get worse.
So I think that's one of thefirst areas.
The second area that I see isyou allowing them to do some of
that work and then saying I mean, to me this sounds a little bit
like the IRS we're going toallow you to do your own taxes,
but if you screw it up, we'regoing to hammer you with
penalties and interest, so nothaving any communication about
(17:48):
what happened after the fact,and just saying, well, now we're
going to go in and do the workthat you said you were going to
do.
To me that sets really bad.
It just says poor expectationsbecause I thought I did what I
was supposed to do and then Iturn the property over to you
(18:09):
and then all of a sudden I getthis bill and even if he's in
the wrong, it's hard to have himhave that perspective after
he's already had that emotionalgut punch of being charged for
doing work that he did in hismind.
Yeah, so for me that is an areawhere I would look at how do we
(18:30):
clean up our onboarding andmake it a better experience.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Yep, Should I read my ?
You want me to read my reply.
You can critique my reply.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Yeah, let's hear it.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
I usually pride myself on taking ownership, but
also being fair.
So I might still be in the heatof the moment.
Honestly, this is so fresh andraw that this might not be the
right reply.
Hi Ryan, I sent a directprivate reply to your Yelp
review yesterday requesting achance to talk to you directly
so I can better understand yourconcerns.
(19:05):
My cell phone number is602-228-9617.
I am traveling with family, butif you text me, I will make it
a priority to take your call andaddress your concerns if you're
willing to do so.
It is rare for us to havefriction like this with a new
client during the onboardingprocess, so I'm especially
interested in finding out how wegot here from your perspective.
(19:26):
I am sorry we failed to morequickly determine that this was
not the right businessrelationship.
This resulted in lost time onyour part, and I can appreciate
this is very frustrating.
It seems clear we didn'tcommunicate our rent-ready
standards and reach a solidagreement with you about them.
(19:47):
In one of the calls you saidthis is just a little piece of
shit property, just rent it.
This was not the right businessrelationship for either of us,
and this experience is causingme to question our policy of
allowing owners to do work tobring property up to our
standards.
We are deconstructing thetimeline now and we'll be making
(20:09):
this a major focus of ourlearning and training and next
week's all company meeting.
I'm sorry we failed you.
Um, it was kind of a dig when I, when I put his quote in there,
wasn't it?
Speaker 2 (20:24):
I'm throwing him under the bus a little bit, a
little bit, um, you know so.
So I went to and this has beenthis has probably been 10 or 15
years ago, but I went to apresentation where Todd Breen
was talking about how to respondto Yelp and Google reviews and
(20:46):
his position was and I'veadopted this ever since is we're
not responding to that review,we're responding to any other
possible owner that might bereading our reviews.
Totally yeah.
So if I'm listening or if I'mreading that from a potential
client's perspective, does thedig help my cause and help
(21:09):
explain it as to why we weremisaligned, or does it make me
feel like, if it goes sideways,I'm going to be publicly, uh,
put on blast?
Speaker 1 (21:26):
um, yeah, I'm.
That's the part I'm strugglingwith.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
So my thoughts is and it's funny because this came up
right before we hopped on hereso this is still fresh for Mark
and he's feverishly retyping hiswristband I'm so distracted
Sorry.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
Sorry, this is so unexpected.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Yeah, but I do think it's important to say how you
were misaligned and where youwere misaligned.
You, in my opinion, did havesome things that you could
reexamine with your policies.
No-transcript.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
No, no, we were right on it.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Yeah.
So I think there's.
I think there's something youcan address about.
Once we received the property,uh, in the condition that you I
don't want to say claimed it wasin, because that word is kind
of a trigger word Um but butonce you turn the property over
to us, we compared it to ourstandard list and discovered
(22:59):
that there were still thingsthat were unrepaired,
uncorrected.
So I do think it's worth sayingthat there's things that he did
to cause us to be in thissituation.
I'm still on the fence with thequote too.
I think it does show hisattitude, but also, even from a
(23:25):
quote standpoint in my policy,to put any sort of curse words
in uh, in print, coming from youknow, being attributed to me,
even though it's a direct quotefrom a business standpoint.
So take it what uh, how youwill, but uh.
(23:46):
So what's your desired outcomewith this?
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Um, to learn, to get better, to hopefully just
overhaul the whole policy sothis could never happen again.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
What do you think your business development people
are going to think about you ifyou were to overhaul this
policy and say nope, when theyturn it over to us.
We are going to be handling anymake readies from this point
forward and, uh, how do youthink business development is
(24:16):
going to handle that?
Speaker 1 (24:18):
I think they, I think they would.
Well, you know they'recommissioned, so I don't.
I don't know how long, I don'tknow how often this comes up.
You know what I mean.
So that's something we'll haveto deconstruct Like up.
You know what I mean.
So that's something we'll haveto deconstruct like if they
think like this is like wow,like 95 of our owners want us to
do the work anyway, uh.
Or if it's like no, in ourmarket right now, like the
(24:40):
majority of the owners want tohave a crack at some of the
lists themselves, and if so,then then we need to like be
like one and done like like you,okay, so our guy, like we're
not even, we're never going back.
Like you said, the work wasdone on this date.
We sent our vendor with thefull list of your items and our
(25:00):
items, instructing them to doanything that isn't done and,
and you've already agreed to bebilled for that um, there's no
discussion at this point.
Now, some people are stillgoing to be upset.
Um, but um, with clear evidenceand photos and everything and a
clear agreement.
That's an experiment we couldrun and it might be slightly
(25:23):
better than than what we had inthis case.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Right.
I still think in that case, ifI've thought that I've done the
work and I turned it over to youand you and I can have
different expectations orunderstandings of what it means
to have the property cleaned,what it means to have the
(25:46):
property properly painted, wecould have different ideas of
what that means, but ultimatelythe property needs to be to your
standards, not to his, in orderto have it enter your portfolio
, to your standards, not to his,in order to have it enter your
portfolio.
When you do property turns inbetween tenants, are you letting
them do the work at that point?
It is still our process, butmost of them don't, because a
lot of them are out of state atthat point.
(26:06):
So here's something that I talkabout when I'm having my
coaching calls, which is everytime you introduce another
variable.
We've actually talked aboutthis on here oh yeah trying to
figure out how many nuts or howmany?
yeah, yep yep, yeah, so anyway,anytime you introduce a new
variable, you don't just doublethe amount of complications you
you exponentially,exponentiallyentially create
(26:30):
challenges.
And so I think that if most ofyour people aren't doing it, the
ones that are opting to areopting to, in my opinion,
because you're allowing it.
If you didn't allow it, if youwere to position it that every
day that the property is vacantcosts them X dollars a day, and
(26:55):
by doing the work themselves,they're having to track down the
trades, they're having to goback and inspect the work,
they're having to tell you thatit's done.
That adds more hassle, moremoney and more vacancy on their
part and more vacancy on theirpart.
And by you handling themaintenance on the onboarding
(27:15):
and at tenant turn, you are ableto put professional vendors
that you have a relationshipwith, that respond quickly, that
provide good work, that standbehind their work, and you're
able to get that done andminimize their vacancy with zero
in frustration or friction fromthem on their part, because
(27:36):
they're not having to go andschedule this stuff after work
or take time off of work or goon the internet and find the
trades.
So I think you can accomplisheliminating those options,
creating a much betterstreamlined system for your team
and ultimately provide a betterservice for your clients.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
Totally Love it, love all of it.
Let's do it All right.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
I'm still distracted.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
I'm still distracted.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Yeah, good conversation.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
Hopefully somebody got something out of this.
If you think I should haveworded that differently, post a
comment here.
I am a sponge.
I want to learn.
I want to be the best, bestversion of myself.
So you know, share with us whatyour experience has been in
really owning the outcome andyou know fully owning it when,
when someone you know blasts youonline, instead of just getting
(28:32):
reactive and upset andslandering them back Maybe I'm
slandering them back with thatcome, with throwing them under
the bus with that comment.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
So I don't know.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Within the next two days I'll have a final version
of that review.
So if you want to go check outMark Brower properties on Google
business profile, you'll seethe final version properties on
Google business profile.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
You'll see the final version.
Yeah, okay, and I am curious tosee if owners, or if property
management company owners allowthe property owners to do the
make ready on onboarding.
So I'm actually going to haveVanessa update our poll that
goes out in the newsletter thisweek and that will be the poll
question.
So if you're not, if you arenot signed up for the property
(29:17):
management success newsletter, Iwant you to go ahead and enroll
.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
That was my dog.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
Moose.
But yeah, let's go ahead andget you enrolled and that way
you can vote on the poll.
Okay, let's do it.
So with that, Mark, I thinkit's time to get these guys out
of here.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Get out of here yeah, you're done at the aid station
and go hit that next segmenthard and we'll see you soon.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
Thanks for tuning in to the Property Management
Success Podcast.
We'll be back with anothervalue-packed episode to help you
level up your propertymanagement game.
If you've got somethingvaluable out of today's episode,
please share it with a friendor colleague, and don't forget
to subscribe and leave a reviewso you never miss out on future
insights and strategies andtactics.
Until next time.
(30:05):
Here's to your success.
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