May 26, 2025 • 38 mins
Have you ever wondered if you could successfully run a property management company from 2,000 miles away? Liz Cleyman has done exactly that, and she's just getting started.
Former NARPM President Liz Cleyman takes us on her remarkable journey from marketing professional to multi-state property management entrepreneur. Starting as a licensed real estate broker in Florida in 2012, Liz eventually relocated to Colorado while continuing to build her industry knowledge and connections. What makes her story truly fascinating is how she launched Blue Sail Property Management in Florida in 2021—operating it remotely from Colorado—and is now expanding with a new office in Denver.
Throughout our conversation, Liz shares wisdom from her extensive leadership experience within NARPM, revealing that most successful property managers operate with portfolios of just 100-150 doors. She distinguishes between courage and bravery in business decisions: "Bravery is charging into battle and not being afraid. Courage is feeling the fear and doing what must be done anyway."
For property managers looking to grow their businesses, Liz offers practical strategies that have proven successful across markets. She emphasizes the importance of building referral networks with realtors and neighboring property management companies, staying visible in your community through organizations like BNI and Chamber of Commerce, and positioning yourself as an expert on local legislation. Her insights on maintenance reserves, habitability laws, and building trust with owners provide actionable takeaways for property managers at any experience level.
Whether you're managing properties in one neighborhood or contemplating expansion across state lines, Liz's approach to relationship-building and risk management offers a blueprint for sustainable growth in the property management industry. Listen now to learn how courage, expertise, and strong networks can help you build a thriving property management business anywhere.
Join fellow property management entrepreneurs and 6 expert coaches in a small, private high level event at a mansion style venue with a private chef and personally selected attendees to maximize the value you receive while at the event.
Join the waitlist for additional information here: https://ONYXwaitlist.com
Save the dates! July 13th - 16th, 2025
visit pmsuccess.com for more value packed property management related information or to hire Tony as your property management coach.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Property Management Success
Podcast, where we interviewleaders in the industry to
uncover the secrets toprofitability, efficiency and
achieving true freedom.
Whether it's your time, moneyor lifestyle, I'm your host,
tony Klein, and I'm here to helpyou build a wildly successful
property management business.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Let's get to it.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Welcome back to another episode of the Property
Management Success Podcast byOnyx, and today I am joined by
Liz Clayman.
Liz, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Thank you, Tony.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Sure, absolutely so.
Liz and I have known each otherfor quite a while and I want to
go through your background alittle bit because it's pretty
impressive.
So Liz started out as alicensed real estate broker in I
think Florida is where youstarted first, right?
Speaker 2 (00:53):
That's correct.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Yes, yeah, so in 2012 , I got licensed in Florida.
What's that?
Speaker 2 (00:58):
In 2012,.
I got licensed in Florida and Iwas in marketing for a property
management firm before that.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Nice.
So you're now currentlylicensed in Florida and in
Colorado, so you'll have anannouncement I think we're going
to talk a little bit about aswe get going.
But you have a company downthere, blue Sail Property
Management in Florida, andyou've been in the property
management and real estate space.
You joined NARPUM in 2012.
And tell us a little bit aboutwhat you've done with NARPUM and
(01:36):
what it is.
Most people that are listeningprobably know what that is by
now, because we've talked aboutit on the show, but for people
that are joining us for thefirst time, what is NARPUM?
And then tell us a little bitabout your involvement.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Absolutely so.
Narpum is the best place to gofor property managers to get
educated.
It covers all the legislationand as well as just one-on-one
tips on how to get started inproperty management, all the way
up to master classes andadvanced classes on how to run
your business and keep it goingstrong.
(02:10):
I started in ARPAM in 2012 andimmediately got involved in the
chapter there in Tampa Bay, andmy journey was just amazing, and
it continues on today.
I served in multiple places inthe Tampa Bay chapter.
I served as their president fortwo years, served on the
Florida State Board as well, andthen started serving at the
national level on the MemberServices Committee, the
(02:34):
Financial Committee and then allthe way up to Regional Vice
President of the SouthwestRegion.
Serving in the Southwest was ablessing because I had moved
from Florida to Colorado.
So in 2017, we moved the familyout to Colorado and that's when
I had the opportunity to startserving as the regional vice
president over the five statesover here, getting to know the
NARPA members in my new localarea.
(02:56):
From there, I moved up throughthe ranks again and to the
president of NARPA in 2022.
That journey was absolutelyamazing.
The people I've met along theway.
The relationships I've builthave been priceless and we had
the opportunity to raise moneyfor great organizations through
that year as well.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
So I'm interested in your journey in NARPUM, and you
started out locally, then kindof went regionally and then
wound up as the nationalpresident.
Let's tell people first of allwhat NARPUM stands for, because
it's kind of a funny word if youjust say NARPUM.
(03:39):
So what is that?
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Absolutely so.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Narpum is the National Association of
Residential Property Managersnew relationships, new
(04:10):
networking and, yeah, absolutelyhas been great in my career
over the years as well.
I'm curious, not a whole lot ofpeople make it to the national
president level, and so I wantto kind of pull back the curtain
a little bit and talk aboutwhat were some of the key
insights that you took away thatmaybe you didn't know about the
(04:33):
property management industry orabout business size or
something, just something thatyou, as you got involved, you
discovered some things thatmaybe you didn't know about the
industry ahead of time.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Oh, what a great question.
So, to be honest, everything Iknow about property management
I've learned through my NARPMjourney.
Narpm has some designationsavailable.
They have an RMP and an MPM MPMstands for Master Property
Manager.
And working through the processof gaining those designations,
you take, of course, classes,you volunteer.
And working through the processof gaining those designations,
you take, of course, classes,you volunteer and you meet so
(05:08):
many people as well Throughoutthe classes, both through the
National Association as well asyour local chapters, because
your local chapters meet on amonthly basis.
You're seeing speakers alongthe way and learning so many
tips and tricks fromprofessionals across the country
.
So the NARPM journey reallytaught me everything I know in
(05:29):
property management and Icontinue to learn every day.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
And as president, again, you had the view of
what's happening just throughoutthe organization, but also
industry-wide.
What's happening justthroughout the organization but
also industry-wide.
Is there anything that, onceyou became president and you
were working with the differentregions and the different
chapters, was there anythingthat kind of stood out from you
(05:54):
of, hey, this is an area whereproperty management really needs
some extra focus or extraattention, or just something
that you're like this, this isreally great.
This, this is something that Iwasn't expecting, but it was a
pleasant surprise, or anythingthat comes to mind like that.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Well, there's a couple of things so I think the
first thing, of course, islegislation.
Working with different regionacross the country, the
legislation is so different.
Working on the West coast, youhave more, more laws and more
hoops to jump through versus theEast Coast, where it's a little
more relaxed as far as that'sconcerned.
And another eye-openingexperience a lot of people in
(06:34):
NARPUM might not know is thatmost of the NARPUM members are
actually a smaller organization.
There are a lot of largerorganizations within the NARPM
association, but really most ofthe businesses are smaller
businesses within NARPM.
So meeting those smallerbusiness owners and meeting
those larger business owners andseeing the difference between
their processes was prettyfascinating.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
So how would you describe or define smaller
business?
Are you talking about doorcount employee account revenue?
What defines that?
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Basically door count, so right around the 100, 150
doors.
That smaller business is thecore of the NARPA membership.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
That's interesting to me.
I would have assumed that itwas probably between that 150 to
300 mark.
I know once you kind of breakover that 350, it does put you
in a little bit of a differentcategory.
But I'm surprised that that 150is kind of where you saw most
of the members.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Well, a lot of people join NARPUM to learn how to
build their business, and that'sexactly by educating yourself,
the path that you can take to doso.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
All right, so you brought up building a business,
so I want to switch gears alittle bit.
Is there anything before we do?
Is there anything else that youwant to mention about NARPUM,
anything that you want to talkabout as the president or just a
member, before we move on fromthat?
Speaker 2 (08:06):
I'll add one more thing.
I heard a member say many yearsago they could break down in
any state and a NARPA memberwould come get them, and I would
a hundred percent agree thatthat's the family within NARPA.
So if you're not a NARPA member, definitely join.
You won't regret it.
And if you are a NARPA member,start volunteering.
You won't regret it.
And if you are a NARPM member,start volunteering.
You get out of life what youput into it and you won't regret
(08:29):
that journey either.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
I agree with that.
One of the things that I sayoften through my NARPM journey
is it's impossible to outgive.
You just can't give more thanthe other people in the industry
, other people in theorganization, give to you.
The more you get involved, themore you try to give it, just it
seems like, the more it comesback your way.
So definitely agree with you onthat, especially when it comes
(08:55):
to the relationships with otherpeople in the in the
organization.
So, okay, I want to dig in alittle bit deeper into your past
, because you started in Floridaand you started doing property
management there.
At some point you started abusiness, and I don't know if
(09:15):
that was before moving toColorado or after moving to
Colorado.
So take us on that journey ofwhat it means for Liz to be in
property management.
How did we get started?
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Oh, great story.
So I don't think many of uswoke up or grew up saying I want
to be a property manager when Igrow up.
So I didn't.
I fell into it.
I had a neighbor in Florida whohad a property management
company and I started doing hismarketing for him from home and
then eventually got licensed asa property manager and went into
the business full time.
(09:48):
A few years later we relocatedto Denver, colorado.
So when I moved to DenverColorado, I again got licensed
in the real estate industry sothat I could do property
management here and beganworking for a great company here
From there.
A few years after that Iactually started a business in
Florida from Colorado.
(10:09):
So I had a contact in Floridareach out and they were
interested in the industry andso we did it together.
I have a property manager inJacksonville.
He is fantastic, he does awonderful job, and then I run
the business here from Colorado,he does a wonderful job and
then I run the business herefrom Colorado.
Kind of a unique story for sure.
We started in late 2021,october 1st 2021.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
We got our first property and then it's grown
from there.
One of our core values, for ourcompany, is to be courageous,
to have courage and take theleap, and there's a difference
between bravery and courage.
Bravery is charging into battleand not being afraid to be
fearless.
Courage is to feel the fear anddo what must be done anyway.
(10:59):
So to still be afraid, butaccept that and to march forward
.
I'm curious, as you tried tostart a company from Colorado in
Florida, was it more courage orbravery, or naivety, like what
made you decide to take a risk?
(11:22):
Decide to take a risk, and evensomebody reaches out to you and
says hey, I want to, I want toget in the business and you have
this expertise, that's.
It's different than being therewhere you can guide them and
mentor them on a regular basis.
So what?
Uh, I'm curious, was it morebravery or or courage?
Speaker 2 (11:43):
I believe it was courage.
I um, there was definitely alot of fear, but you have to do
hard things in life and, lookingback, I love to teach, I love
to share and I had some greatmentors throughout my NARPM
journey and, like you said,giving back is where I am in my
my journey and so I think a lotof it was more of that.
(12:05):
It was building something andbuilding someone and building
this thing, and that's kind ofhow it started out and it's
turned into a beautiful thing, abeautiful business and a
beautiful relationship betweenHenry and I.
He's done a great job and I dideverything that you just said.
From 2000 miles away, we talkedon a daily basis.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
So I think I think, as entrepreneurs, sometimes when
we get something rolling andand we go through the
interesting part of building it,then we get to the boring part
of maintaining it and and ofcourse we're always making
adjustments in that.
But I think a lot of usentrepreneurs can kind of get
that squirrel, shiny objectsyndrome, whatever, where we're
(12:50):
chasing the next new thing andand and.
So I know we have peoplelistening that say I would love
to start my business in anothermarket, I'd like to expand into
another market.
What would you share with them?
What were some lessons learned,both good and bad, about how to
actually pull this off andbeing able to create a
(13:15):
successful business fromthousands of miles away?
What would your advice be?
Speaker 2 (13:21):
That's a good one.
So for most of us in theproperty management world, we've
built portfolios.
I was a 1099 employee withmultiple companies in the past
and built a portfolio fromscratch on my own.
So I followed that same path.
I put him into a BNI group.
He got involved in NARPUM Infact he's going to be the
(13:41):
Jacksonville chapter presidentnext year.
He engaged in every way thatwas needed to make this process
and this possibility happen andI think the mentorship and my
life skills from buildingportfolios in the past
definitely helped guide thattrain, if you will.
And then as far as running thebusiness, we all know we're in
property management.
As long as we have internet, wecan pretty much do that from
(14:03):
anywhere, as long as we haveboots on the ground.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
So, as you built this up, did you still have a sphere
of influence down in Floridawhen you brought this person on
and did you introduce them to orwas it just starting from
scratch A lot of people that aretrying to grow their business
where they are?
They have years and years ofexperience and connection and
(14:30):
they're still struggling growing.
So I'm really interested to seehow were you able to go from
zero doors to whatever portfoliosize you have down there now.
What did it take to get there?
Speaker 2 (14:45):
So I think visibility is key Whenever you're building
any kind of business at all.
Being visible within yourcommunities is key.
By joining BNI Chamber ofCommerce and then, of course,
the NARPUM group, you're gettingthat visibility within your
community.
As far as sphere of influence,it was definitely the NARPUM
relationships that I've builtthat really blossomed into
(15:08):
helping us build this business.
And again, henry joined NARPUMand got involved right away and
definitely built thoserelationships on his own
throughout the community as well.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
So we start with zero doors.
We work within the community,but I'm assuming that other
NARPA members aren't havingproperties for you to manage, so
we've created these networksand these relationships.
How did that turn into actualbusiness for you?
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Well, there's a couple of ways.
There are NARPM members thatwill refer properties to you if
you're willing to manage them inareas they don't manage
properties in.
So you can build a referralrelationship with actual other
property managers within yourareas and if you're managing
properties that they're notmanaging in the same areas, you
become referral partners and youcan pass back and forth.
(16:01):
That's one way to do it.
Another way, of course, is withrealtors.
Realtors can be a propertymanager's best friend.
If you're working with arealtor who doesn't have
property management within theiroffice, you build a referral
partner with them and then ifthey run across a client who's
unable to sell their house, thenthey can refer you that
business as well.
And then, of course, once thatproperty management relationship
(16:22):
ends, you'll refer that clientback to that realtor to do the
sale.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
A couple of points on that.
So when I'm coaching peoplethrough, growing, these are two
things that we leverage reallywell.
Growing these are two thingsthat we leverage really well is,
if you think about, everyproperty management company has
a border of how far they will goout and manage properties.
And so if you decide whereyou're going to manage
(16:51):
properties at and you kind ofdraw a radius around that and
say, okay, what is that borderof where I'm willing to manage
and who is just on the outsideof that, those are great
referral partners because theyprobably are not going to want
to travel to where you're at,just like you don't want to
(17:12):
travel to where they're at, andso, yeah, there's going to be a
little crossover, but those arereally good referral sources
when you get started, especiallyonce you're in that NARPUM
community with companies that dohave property management in
their office, because if I'm arealtor, I don't want somebody
(17:44):
with my same company namescrewing up property management
so that I don't get thatreferral back when it comes time
to sell.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
That's a great point.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Absolutely yeah.
So I don't know I haven'treally studied like, do we get
more from people that don't havereferral or a property manager
in their business versussomebody that does?
But I know that both of thosecan be wildly successful from a
referral standpoint.
I think you have to providesomething of value when you're
(18:15):
making these realtor connections.
You can't just call up everycouple of weeks and say, hey, do
you have any business for me?
You have to provide value orstroke their ego.
I think those are the twothings that you and stroking
their ego is a little bit likepointed, but recognizing them
for transactions that they justclosed, new listings they get
(18:38):
you know, commenting on theirsuccess in the marketplace, that
makes you a lot betterrelationships than just reaching
out and saying, hey, I doproperty management, Do you have
a referral partner for me?
Speaker 2 (18:53):
And a lot of coffee dates.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
Yeah, a lot of going to coffee, a lot of realtor
referral or realtor events, um,and then speaking at the
different offices, because a lotof people are looking for
presentations for their weeklymeetings that they bring in.
So once you get a little bit ofexperience, being able to take
your presentation, pairing itdown to where it's a quick intro
(19:19):
, doing a presentation,introducing the other speakers
there, going to title companiesand sponsoring continuing
education classes, stuff likethat, yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
And also going to the Realtor Association for
different events and classes.
There, because you're rubbingelbows with so many people and
meeting so many new faces.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Yeah, there because you're rubbing elbows with so
many people and meeting so manynew faces.
Yeah, so we could go down awhole rabbit hole of how to grow
, and maybe we should do thatsometime.
But I want to circle backaround.
So it wasn't enough for you tostart a business in Florida from
Colorado.
Now you're going to move tosomewhere else and start a
business in Colorado.
No, you're just going to makeyour announcement here, so why
(20:04):
don't you tell us what else youhave going on?
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Oh yes, we have very exciting news.
So we are growing and we aregoing to open an office in
Denver, colorado, so Blue Sailis coming to Colorado.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Nice, denver, colorado.
So Blue Sail is coming toColorado, nice.
So what made you decide that itwas time to do that?
Because you've been in Coloradonow for several years, right?
Speaker 2 (20:28):
We have.
Yes, so it's eight years thissummer.
When I first moved to ColoradoI'm not naive I didn't have a
sphere of influence, I didn'tknow the area, I didn't know the
suburbs, I didn't know a lot.
And now, after being here foreight years and doing property
management that full time aswell, I've learned so much and I
feel that it's time and I'mready and I'm very excited to
(20:49):
start this new journey here inDenver.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
Nice.
Well, congratulations onstarting that new journey here.
I'm sure you're going to dogreat.
I'm sure you're going to bewildly successful with it, just
because I know all theconnections you have and all the
attention you give to yourclients and to the industry, so
looking forward to seeing howthat grows In Denver, since a
(21:15):
lot of our audience is in Denver.
Is there a certain market area,property type?
How did you decide?
Because this is a lot ofbusiness owners that don't
already have property managementgoing.
They start with zero doors andthey say I need to eat, so I'm
(21:35):
just.
If you have a pen, you can markup my management agreement.
Do whatever you want, just aslong as you sign it, I'll manage
your property.
So what are you doing now todefine the type of client that
you want to work with, or thearea or property type?
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Have you spent much time thinking about that yet for
Colorado, oh, absolutely, andthis isn't my first radio, so
I'm going about it a little bitof a different direction.
The first time you build aportfolio, you will take
anything, no matter the property, no matter the owner, just like
you said, whatever terms youwant.
Yes, yes, yes, and I've been inthe industry long enough now
(22:12):
and I know enough about theworld that we're in that to
provide quality service, youhave to have a quality
management agreement and youhave to have those quality
clients.
So I'm going about it a muchdifferent direction than I have
in the past.
That doesn't mean that I won'tmanage lower income housing,
because really, as long as youhave a good owner, that's the
(22:32):
relationship that you need to besuccessful with their property
and their investment to besuccessful with their property
and their investment.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
So, with all your experience in property
management, you mentioned havinga good owner.
I know that also means having agood relationship with that
owner, setting properexpectations and then delivering
on those expectations.
What have you learned aboutbeing a good property manager,
and do you have a lot of ownerinvolvement?
(23:06):
Do you try to manage most ofthe properties and decisions
yourself, like, what's yourstyle?
Is it we're going to do thistogether or you've turned this
over to me?
I'm going to do it?
Like, where?
Where do you fit on that scale?
Speaker 2 (23:20):
That's a good question.
So you have to build trust.
So you can't expect somebody togive you such a large, large
asset and trust you a hundredpercent right off the bat.
So setting the expectations andbuilding the relationship and
then you, once you build thetrust, then they kind of sit
down and they can wait for thosephone calls.
But you have to build thattrust.
You can't just right off thebat not communicate with a new
(23:43):
client by any means.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
Like I said, it's a relationship-building business.
I have a question for you andmaybe you can't answer it.
I think you should be able to.
But if you're starting out withyour management agreement, a
lot of people say this is myauthority to make decisions, so
(24:11):
I have a maintenance limit.
I can make decisions up to thislimit.
I'll tell you what.
I'll just skip asking you whatthat limit is, but I'm assuming
you have that in your managementagreement, that you, up to a
certain amount, you have thedecision to make or the ability
to make decisions on repairs.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
Of course, yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Okay, and so I'm assuming that you also have a
maintenance reserve that allowsyou, or portfolio reserve that
allows you, to pay vendors outof that reserve to cover that
limit.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
Yes, of course.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
Okay, all right.
So how did you determinebecause I've heard throughout
the country I work with propertymanagement companies throughout
the country how did you land onthe dollar amount that you
landed on?
How did you land on the dollaramount that you landed on?
And then do you get anypushback from that for people
saying, well, I want to know ifyou're going to spend a dollar,
I want to know about it.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Yeah, that can definitely be a tough
conversation.
As far as the number amount ofthe maintenance reserve, prices
are going up.
What we saw as maintenancereserves five, 10 years ago that
wouldn't even cover thehandyman to come out and replace
an air filter.
So prices are definitely goingup.
So maintenance reserves have togo up and that's something you
(25:29):
can explain to the homeowner asyou're bringing them on and
onboarding them.
As far as authority, of course,the management agreement says
we'll let you know up to thispoint, unless it's an emergency,
for instance, if their hotwater heater blows and there's
water all over the place, we'regoing to go ahead and have that
service completed and then reachout to the owner, let them know
(25:51):
what happened, tell them yougot good news.
There was no water damage, thehot water heater was replaced
quickly and the tenant's happy.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
And then, of course, on the next management statement
, they'll receive that invoiceas well.
When I first started doingproperty management, we didn't
have that extra clause aboutaccept or it's an emergency.
We just had our maintenancelimit, and sometimes we would
not be able to reach an ownerand we'd have a furnace that was
out in the middle of the winteror the water heater, as you
mentioned, and we just didn'thave the ability to take action.
(26:24):
And so one of the things thatwe've become really good at over
the years and that I help myclients with is setting a
default position.
So you have a default that, inabsence of any other information
, your team has the instructionson what to do, and so I really
(26:46):
like that.
Defining what is an emergencyand then just having that
already preset and defining theemergency could just be an
emergency, as I, I determine,you know, or whatever like, but
it has to be defined.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
Sorry.
In the state of Colorado it'sreally easy to find emergencies
now that we have suchhabitability laws.
Um, you know I'm an instructoras well.
Last year I put together a sixhour class covering property
management legislation, just for23 and 24, six hours of
material covering all thenuances that we have to pay
(27:27):
attention to and know about.
So, having the new habitabilitylaws, which are fantastic for
keeping properties in greatcondition, you have to have that
extra reserve and that extrapermission, because now it's not
necessarily our decision, oreven the owner's decision.
It's a habitability issue thathas to be maintained and taken
care of within a reasonableamount of time, as per the law
(27:49):
states.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
I always say that and I used to say this all the time
when I had my managementcompany.
But a client really only hiresa property manager for two
reasons, and that's to assistthem with minimizing the risks
associated with being aninvestment property owner, and
the second thing is to maximizethe long-term returns associated
(28:14):
with being an investmentproperty owner and so being able
to position why we need thatmaintenance reserve and why it
needs to be higher than it usedto be.
It covers both of those things.
It will help us minimize therisks because we can take action
when we need to, and then wecan maximize their long-term
returns, because any good vendorthat we have is only going to
(28:38):
do work for us for so long.
If they're going to have to goto the property, give you an
estimate, then wait for you tocontact the owner.
Then the owner doesn't get backto you, so they leave, they go
do another job, and then theowner gets back to you, and then
you call the vendor and say,hey, can you go back?
And it's just not worth it.
(28:58):
And so you lose good vendorsand they wind up having to
charge you more just to be ableto cover their costs, and so by
having that higher threshold,you actually are saving them
money by being able to get theservice done from one of your
trusted vendors that does a goodjob, that stands behind their
work and does it not at thecheapest price but for the best
(29:22):
value.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Absolutely, you're 100%, I agree 100%.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
Yeah.
So let's talk a little bitabout legislation.
I think that is a huge keydifferentiator.
Every property managementcompany that I work with I tell
them you know we are all thesame until we're not.
(29:49):
And what I mean by that is thepublic looks at us and says I
have property management companya, b and C and I think they all
do the same thing.
They're all just going tocollect my rent and get a lease
signed, and they probably don'tdo a whole lot more than that.
So, in absence of anything else, the only thing I have to pick
(30:12):
or use to pick is price, becauseif they're all the same, why
would I pay more for the sameservice?
And so I think that leaninginto the legislation and
creating marketing material andcontent and showing that you're
the expertise around thesethings not necessarily doing
scare tactics of oh, look out,all this stuff is coming down,
(30:35):
but educating them and thenshowing them how to minimize
that risk, I think is a reallygood tactic to help you become
different and to use that as adifferentiator.
Crazy it's become here.
(31:06):
What were some of the moreinteresting things about the
legislation that you wereteaching over the last?
Speaker 2 (31:09):
couple of years.
Oh my goodness, there's so much.
One that hit a couple of yearsago.
That I thought was interestingis that the landlord has to
mitigate bedbugs no matter whenthey show up.
I thought that was prettyinteresting.
We had that happen.
I had a tenant reach out to anexterminator and the
exterminator actually let thetenant know that he didn't have
to pay for that service.
(31:29):
That was nice.
The habitability law that cameout last year is so extensive
it's I mean, we're talkingprobably three hours worth of
content, but there's a lot oftimelines and you have to know
the timeline per each incident.
So if it's this incident, youhave this many hours, or if this
(31:50):
isn't, you have three days.
So a property manager has tostay up to date on all these
legislations because you couldlose a lot by not knowing what
you don't know.
Uh, another one that I bring upin when I'm teaching is the new
lead-based paint laws, andthat's actually a national um
organization.
Of course, the EPA and a lot ofproperty managers that I run
(32:13):
into don't even know that theyhave to be EPA certified,
meaning your property managerhas to go to the EPA class and
get an EPA certification, umcertification, in order to be
compliant.
So there's a lot that goes intoit that NARPUM definitely keeps
up with, and having NARPUM inyour back pocket is a great
thing so that you have thatinformation easily available to
(32:34):
you.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
To tie this part of the conversation back to
something we talked aboutearlier when you're working on
your realtor referral programproviding something of value to
them that they can then deliverto their sphere their people
that are buying investmentproperties or just to give them
something that is of value thatthey can share, because they're
(33:01):
looking to do the same thingwe're looking to do, which is to
provide value, to stayconnected to people, and so if
you do have a cheat sheet on thehabitability timelines, that is
something that would be greatto say.
Look, I'm just reaching out toother real estate agents in the
area.
I notice you do some realestate sales and you're active
(33:23):
in the same community I'm activein, if you're working with any
investors.
I just wanted to share with youa resource that we use to help
investment property owners withmanaging the timeline when it
does come to repairs and thingslike that, and so just trying to
find the little things in thelegislation or market trends or
(33:48):
anything like that I think is areally good way to stay in touch
, provide value and, at the sametime, show that you're an
expert and an authority in thespace.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
That's a great idea.
Another thing a lot of realtorsmight not know is about the
Denver rental license.
The Denver rental license issuch a big project that they
started two years ago.
I guess we're in our third yearnow and I think a lot of
investors aren't aware of thatwhen they're purchasing
properties within Denver County.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
Yeah yeah.
Within Denver County, yeah yeah.
Well, liz, it's been.
It's been a lot of fun havingyou on.
I'm curious what is there thatthat we didn't talk about?
That we should have?
That was top of mind for you.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
Oh goodness, I think you covered everything.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
Yeah, we did kind of.
We did kind of go through somethings, didn't we?
Well, I'm just really excitedthat we were able to connect
today.
I know that you're going to bereally successful here in
Colorado.
I'm actually really curiousabout how you're growing two
different companies in twodifferent markets, staying on
(34:58):
top of the trends, staying ontop of the laws, staying on top
of the different ways that youmarket.
I was on a call earlier with aclient where he was talking
about how Zillow was operatingone way and charging and having
them put their units into abuilding list and then other
markets are.
No, you can list them asindividual units and uh.
(35:21):
And so it's going to beinteresting for me to watch you
grow these two companies and tryto keep them separate, because
I think a lot of peoplefantasize about I'm, I'm growing
here, but I'd like to growfaster.
So instead of doubling downhere, I'm going to open a new
market market and some peoplehave wild success with it and
(35:44):
others just really complicatetheir lives.
So I'm sure you're going to dogreat with all your experience,
but it will be interesting towatch that, as you transform
that and try to keep thatseparate.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Well, thank you for the kind words.
We're super excited.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
Yeah, good.
Well, Liz, thanks for being onand appreciate the time and I'm
sure that I will see you eitherrunning around town here.
You actually live not too farfrom me.
You're kind of out west here, Ithink, right.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Yeah, and I'll be at the NARPA meeting in a couple of
weeks.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
Okay, all right.
Well, we will see you out there.
Thanks again.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
All right, thanks, tony.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
Thanks for tuning in to the Property Management
Success Podcast.
We'll be back with anothervalue-packed episode to help you
level up your propertymanagement game.
If you've got somethingvaluable out of today's episode,
please share it with a friendor colleague, and don't forget
to subscribe and leave a reviewso you never miss out on future
insights and strategies andtactics.
Until next time.
(36:44):
Here's to your success.
Welcome to the Property Management Success
Podcast, where we interviewleaders in the industry to
uncover the secrets toprofitability, efficiency and
achieving true freedom.
Whether it's your time, moneyor lifestyle, I'm your host,
tony Klein, and I'm here to helpyou build a wildly successful
property management business.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Let's get to it.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Welcome back to another episode of the Property
Management Success Podcast byOnyx, and today I am joined by
Liz Clayman.
Liz, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Thank you, Tony.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Sure, absolutely so.
Liz and I have known each otherfor quite a while and I want to
go through your background alittle bit because it's pretty
impressive.
So Liz started out as alicensed real estate broker in I
think Florida is where youstarted first, right?
Speaker 2 (00:53):
That's correct.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Yes, yeah, so in 2012 , I got licensed in Florida.
What's that?
Speaker 2 (00:58):
In 2012,.
I got licensed in Florida and Iwas in marketing for a property
management firm before that.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Nice.
So you're now currentlylicensed in Florida and in
Colorado, so you'll have anannouncement I think we're going
to talk a little bit about aswe get going.
But you have a company downthere, blue Sail Property
Management in Florida, andyou've been in the property
management and real estate space.
You joined NARPUM in 2012.
And tell us a little bit aboutwhat you've done with NARPUM and
(01:36):
what it is.
Most people that are listeningprobably know what that is by
now, because we've talked aboutit on the show, but for people
that are joining us for thefirst time, what is NARPUM?
And then tell us a little bitabout your involvement.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Absolutely so.
Narpum is the best place to gofor property managers to get
educated.
It covers all the legislationand as well as just one-on-one
tips on how to get started inproperty management, all the way
up to master classes andadvanced classes on how to run
your business and keep it goingstrong.
(02:10):
I started in ARPAM in 2012 andimmediately got involved in the
chapter there in Tampa Bay, andmy journey was just amazing, and
it continues on today.
I served in multiple places inthe Tampa Bay chapter.
I served as their president fortwo years, served on the
Florida State Board as well, andthen started serving at the
national level on the MemberServices Committee, the
(02:34):
Financial Committee and then allthe way up to Regional Vice
President of the SouthwestRegion.
Serving in the Southwest was ablessing because I had moved
from Florida to Colorado.
So in 2017, we moved the familyout to Colorado and that's when
I had the opportunity to startserving as the regional vice
president over the five statesover here, getting to know the
NARPA members in my new localarea.
(02:56):
From there, I moved up throughthe ranks again and to the
president of NARPA in 2022.
That journey was absolutelyamazing.
The people I've met along theway.
The relationships I've builthave been priceless and we had
the opportunity to raise moneyfor great organizations through
that year as well.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
So I'm interested in your journey in NARPUM, and you
started out locally, then kindof went regionally and then
wound up as the nationalpresident.
Let's tell people first of allwhat NARPUM stands for, because
it's kind of a funny word if youjust say NARPUM.
(03:39):
So what is that?
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Absolutely so.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Narpum is the National Association of
Residential Property Managersnew relationships, new
(04:10):
networking and, yeah, absolutelyhas been great in my career
over the years as well.
I'm curious, not a whole lot ofpeople make it to the national
president level, and so I wantto kind of pull back the curtain
a little bit and talk aboutwhat were some of the key
insights that you took away thatmaybe you didn't know about the
(04:33):
property management industry orabout business size or
something, just something thatyou, as you got involved, you
discovered some things thatmaybe you didn't know about the
industry ahead of time.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Oh, what a great question.
So, to be honest, everything Iknow about property management
I've learned through my NARPMjourney.
Narpm has some designationsavailable.
They have an RMP and an MPM MPMstands for Master Property
Manager.
And working through the processof gaining those designations,
you take, of course, classes,you volunteer.
And working through the processof gaining those designations,
you take, of course, classes,you volunteer and you meet so
(05:08):
many people as well Throughoutthe classes, both through the
National Association as well asyour local chapters, because
your local chapters meet on amonthly basis.
You're seeing speakers alongthe way and learning so many
tips and tricks fromprofessionals across the country
.
So the NARPM journey reallytaught me everything I know in
(05:29):
property management and Icontinue to learn every day.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
And as president, again, you had the view of
what's happening just throughoutthe organization, but also
industry-wide.
What's happening justthroughout the organization but
also industry-wide.
Is there anything that, onceyou became president and you
were working with the differentregions and the different
chapters, was there anythingthat kind of stood out from you
(05:54):
of, hey, this is an area whereproperty management really needs
some extra focus or extraattention, or just something
that you're like this, this isreally great.
This, this is something that Iwasn't expecting, but it was a
pleasant surprise, or anythingthat comes to mind like that.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Well, there's a couple of things so I think the
first thing, of course, islegislation.
Working with different regionacross the country, the
legislation is so different.
Working on the West coast, youhave more, more laws and more
hoops to jump through versus theEast Coast, where it's a little
more relaxed as far as that'sconcerned.
And another eye-openingexperience a lot of people in
(06:34):
NARPUM might not know is thatmost of the NARPUM members are
actually a smaller organization.
There are a lot of largerorganizations within the NARPM
association, but really most ofthe businesses are smaller
businesses within NARPM.
So meeting those smallerbusiness owners and meeting
those larger business owners andseeing the difference between
their processes was prettyfascinating.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
So how would you describe or define smaller
business?
Are you talking about doorcount employee account revenue?
What defines that?
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Basically door count, so right around the 100, 150
doors.
That smaller business is thecore of the NARPA membership.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
That's interesting to me.
I would have assumed that itwas probably between that 150 to
300 mark.
I know once you kind of breakover that 350, it does put you
in a little bit of a differentcategory.
But I'm surprised that that 150is kind of where you saw most
of the members.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Well, a lot of people join NARPUM to learn how to
build their business, and that'sexactly by educating yourself,
the path that you can take to doso.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
All right, so you brought up building a business,
so I want to switch gears alittle bit.
Is there anything before we do?
Is there anything else that youwant to mention about NARPUM,
anything that you want to talkabout as the president or just a
member, before we move on fromthat?
Speaker 2 (08:06):
I'll add one more thing.
I heard a member say many yearsago they could break down in
any state and a NARPA memberwould come get them, and I would
a hundred percent agree thatthat's the family within NARPA.
So if you're not a NARPA member, definitely join.
You won't regret it.
And if you are a NARPA member,start volunteering.
You won't regret it.
And if you are a NARPM member,start volunteering.
You get out of life what youput into it and you won't regret
(08:29):
that journey either.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
I agree with that.
One of the things that I sayoften through my NARPM journey
is it's impossible to outgive.
You just can't give more thanthe other people in the industry
, other people in theorganization, give to you.
The more you get involved, themore you try to give it, just it
seems like, the more it comesback your way.
So definitely agree with you onthat, especially when it comes
(08:55):
to the relationships with otherpeople in the in the
organization.
So, okay, I want to dig in alittle bit deeper into your past
, because you started in Floridaand you started doing property
management there.
At some point you started abusiness, and I don't know if
(09:15):
that was before moving toColorado or after moving to
Colorado.
So take us on that journey ofwhat it means for Liz to be in
property management.
How did we get started?
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Oh, great story.
So I don't think many of uswoke up or grew up saying I want
to be a property manager when Igrow up.
So I didn't.
I fell into it.
I had a neighbor in Florida whohad a property management
company and I started doing hismarketing for him from home and
then eventually got licensed asa property manager and went into
the business full time.
(09:48):
A few years later we relocatedto Denver, colorado.
So when I moved to DenverColorado, I again got licensed
in the real estate industry sothat I could do property
management here and beganworking for a great company here
From there.
A few years after that Iactually started a business in
Florida from Colorado.
(10:09):
So I had a contact in Floridareach out and they were
interested in the industry andso we did it together.
I have a property manager inJacksonville.
He is fantastic, he does awonderful job, and then I run
the business here from Colorado,he does a wonderful job and
then I run the business herefrom Colorado.
Kind of a unique story for sure.
We started in late 2021,october 1st 2021.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
We got our first property and then it's grown
from there.
One of our core values, for ourcompany, is to be courageous,
to have courage and take theleap, and there's a difference
between bravery and courage.
Bravery is charging into battleand not being afraid to be
fearless.
Courage is to feel the fear anddo what must be done anyway.
(10:59):
So to still be afraid, butaccept that and to march forward
.
I'm curious, as you tried tostart a company from Colorado in
Florida, was it more courage orbravery, or naivety, like what
made you decide to take a risk?
(11:22):
Decide to take a risk, and evensomebody reaches out to you and
says hey, I want to, I want toget in the business and you have
this expertise, that's.
It's different than being therewhere you can guide them and
mentor them on a regular basis.
So what?
Uh, I'm curious, was it morebravery or or courage?
Speaker 2 (11:43):
I believe it was courage.
I um, there was definitely alot of fear, but you have to do
hard things in life and, lookingback, I love to teach, I love
to share and I had some greatmentors throughout my NARPM
journey and, like you said,giving back is where I am in my
my journey and so I think a lotof it was more of that.
(12:05):
It was building something andbuilding someone and building
this thing, and that's kind ofhow it started out and it's
turned into a beautiful thing, abeautiful business and a
beautiful relationship betweenHenry and I.
He's done a great job and I dideverything that you just said.
From 2000 miles away, we talkedon a daily basis.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
So I think I think, as entrepreneurs, sometimes when
we get something rolling andand we go through the
interesting part of building it,then we get to the boring part
of maintaining it and and ofcourse we're always making
adjustments in that.
But I think a lot of usentrepreneurs can kind of get
that squirrel, shiny objectsyndrome, whatever, where we're
(12:50):
chasing the next new thing andand and.
So I know we have peoplelistening that say I would love
to start my business in anothermarket, I'd like to expand into
another market.
What would you share with them?
What were some lessons learned,both good and bad, about how to
actually pull this off andbeing able to create a
(13:15):
successful business fromthousands of miles away?
What would your advice be?
Speaker 2 (13:21):
That's a good one.
So for most of us in theproperty management world, we've
built portfolios.
I was a 1099 employee withmultiple companies in the past
and built a portfolio fromscratch on my own.
So I followed that same path.
I put him into a BNI group.
He got involved in NARPUM Infact he's going to be the
(13:41):
Jacksonville chapter presidentnext year.
He engaged in every way thatwas needed to make this process
and this possibility happen andI think the mentorship and my
life skills from buildingportfolios in the past
definitely helped guide thattrain, if you will.
And then as far as running thebusiness, we all know we're in
property management.
As long as we have internet, wecan pretty much do that from
(14:03):
anywhere, as long as we haveboots on the ground.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
So, as you built this up, did you still have a sphere
of influence down in Floridawhen you brought this person on
and did you introduce them to orwas it just starting from
scratch A lot of people that aretrying to grow their business
where they are?
They have years and years ofexperience and connection and
(14:30):
they're still struggling growing.
So I'm really interested to seehow were you able to go from
zero doors to whatever portfoliosize you have down there now.
What did it take to get there?
Speaker 2 (14:45):
So I think visibility is key Whenever you're building
any kind of business at all.
Being visible within yourcommunities is key.
By joining BNI Chamber ofCommerce and then, of course,
the NARPUM group, you're gettingthat visibility within your
community.
As far as sphere of influence,it was definitely the NARPUM
relationships that I've builtthat really blossomed into
(15:08):
helping us build this business.
And again, henry joined NARPUMand got involved right away and
definitely built thoserelationships on his own
throughout the community as well.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
So we start with zero doors.
We work within the community,but I'm assuming that other
NARPA members aren't havingproperties for you to manage, so
we've created these networksand these relationships.
How did that turn into actualbusiness for you?
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Well, there's a couple of ways.
There are NARPM members thatwill refer properties to you if
you're willing to manage them inareas they don't manage
properties in.
So you can build a referralrelationship with actual other
property managers within yourareas and if you're managing
properties that they're notmanaging in the same areas, you
become referral partners and youcan pass back and forth.
(16:01):
That's one way to do it.
Another way, of course, is withrealtors.
Realtors can be a propertymanager's best friend.
If you're working with arealtor who doesn't have
property management within theiroffice, you build a referral
partner with them and then ifthey run across a client who's
unable to sell their house, thenthey can refer you that
business as well.
And then, of course, once thatproperty management relationship
(16:22):
ends, you'll refer that clientback to that realtor to do the
sale.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
A couple of points on that.
So when I'm coaching peoplethrough, growing, these are two
things that we leverage reallywell.
Growing these are two thingsthat we leverage really well is,
if you think about, everyproperty management company has
a border of how far they will goout and manage properties.
And so if you decide whereyou're going to manage
(16:51):
properties at and you kind ofdraw a radius around that and
say, okay, what is that borderof where I'm willing to manage
and who is just on the outsideof that, those are great
referral partners because theyprobably are not going to want
to travel to where you're at,just like you don't want to
(17:12):
travel to where they're at, andso, yeah, there's going to be a
little crossover, but those arereally good referral sources
when you get started, especiallyonce you're in that NARPUM
community with companies that dohave property management in
their office, because if I'm arealtor, I don't want somebody
(17:44):
with my same company namescrewing up property management
so that I don't get thatreferral back when it comes time
to sell.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
That's a great point.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Absolutely yeah.
So I don't know I haven'treally studied like, do we get
more from people that don't havereferral or a property manager
in their business versussomebody that does?
But I know that both of thosecan be wildly successful from a
referral standpoint.
I think you have to providesomething of value when you're
(18:15):
making these realtor connections.
You can't just call up everycouple of weeks and say, hey, do
you have any business for me?
You have to provide value orstroke their ego.
I think those are the twothings that you and stroking
their ego is a little bit likepointed, but recognizing them
for transactions that they justclosed, new listings they get
(18:38):
you know, commenting on theirsuccess in the marketplace, that
makes you a lot betterrelationships than just reaching
out and saying, hey, I doproperty management, Do you have
a referral partner for me?
Speaker 2 (18:53):
And a lot of coffee dates.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
Yeah, a lot of going to coffee, a lot of realtor
referral or realtor events, um,and then speaking at the
different offices, because a lotof people are looking for
presentations for their weeklymeetings that they bring in.
So once you get a little bit ofexperience, being able to take
your presentation, pairing itdown to where it's a quick intro
(19:19):
, doing a presentation,introducing the other speakers
there, going to title companiesand sponsoring continuing
education classes, stuff likethat, yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
And also going to the Realtor Association for
different events and classes.
There, because you're rubbingelbows with so many people and
meeting so many new faces.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Yeah, there because you're rubbing elbows with so
many people and meeting so manynew faces.
Yeah, so we could go down awhole rabbit hole of how to grow
, and maybe we should do thatsometime.
But I want to circle backaround.
So it wasn't enough for you tostart a business in Florida from
Colorado.
Now you're going to move tosomewhere else and start a
business in Colorado.
No, you're just going to makeyour announcement here, so why
(20:04):
don't you tell us what else youhave going on?
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Oh yes, we have very exciting news.
So we are growing and we aregoing to open an office in
Denver, colorado, so Blue Sailis coming to Colorado.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Nice, denver, colorado.
So Blue Sail is coming toColorado, nice.
So what made you decide that itwas time to do that?
Because you've been in Coloradonow for several years, right?
Speaker 2 (20:28):
We have.
Yes, so it's eight years thissummer.
When I first moved to ColoradoI'm not naive I didn't have a
sphere of influence, I didn'tknow the area, I didn't know the
suburbs, I didn't know a lot.
And now, after being here foreight years and doing property
management that full time aswell, I've learned so much and I
feel that it's time and I'mready and I'm very excited to
(20:49):
start this new journey here inDenver.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
Nice.
Well, congratulations onstarting that new journey here.
I'm sure you're going to dogreat.
I'm sure you're going to bewildly successful with it, just
because I know all theconnections you have and all the
attention you give to yourclients and to the industry, so
looking forward to seeing howthat grows In Denver, since a
(21:15):
lot of our audience is in Denver.
Is there a certain market area,property type?
How did you decide?
Because this is a lot ofbusiness owners that don't
already have property managementgoing.
They start with zero doors andthey say I need to eat, so I'm
(21:35):
just.
If you have a pen, you can markup my management agreement.
Do whatever you want, just aslong as you sign it, I'll manage
your property.
So what are you doing now todefine the type of client that
you want to work with, or thearea or property type?
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Have you spent much time thinking about that yet for
Colorado, oh, absolutely, andthis isn't my first radio, so
I'm going about it a little bitof a different direction.
The first time you build aportfolio, you will take
anything, no matter the property, no matter the owner, just like
you said, whatever terms youwant.
Yes, yes, yes, and I've been inthe industry long enough now
(22:12):
and I know enough about theworld that we're in that to
provide quality service, youhave to have a quality
management agreement and youhave to have those quality
clients.
So I'm going about it a muchdifferent direction than I have
in the past.
That doesn't mean that I won'tmanage lower income housing,
because really, as long as youhave a good owner, that's the
(22:32):
relationship that you need to besuccessful with their property
and their investment to besuccessful with their property
and their investment.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
So, with all your experience in property
management, you mentioned havinga good owner.
I know that also means having agood relationship with that
owner, setting properexpectations and then delivering
on those expectations.
What have you learned aboutbeing a good property manager,
and do you have a lot of ownerinvolvement?
(23:06):
Do you try to manage most ofthe properties and decisions
yourself, like, what's yourstyle?
Is it we're going to do thistogether or you've turned this
over to me?
I'm going to do it?
Like, where?
Where do you fit on that scale?
Speaker 2 (23:20):
That's a good question.
So you have to build trust.
So you can't expect somebody togive you such a large, large
asset and trust you a hundredpercent right off the bat.
So setting the expectations andbuilding the relationship and
then you, once you build thetrust, then they kind of sit
down and they can wait for thosephone calls.
But you have to build thattrust.
You can't just right off thebat not communicate with a new
(23:43):
client by any means.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
Like I said, it's a relationship-building business.
I have a question for you andmaybe you can't answer it.
I think you should be able to.
But if you're starting out withyour management agreement, a
lot of people say this is myauthority to make decisions, so
(24:11):
I have a maintenance limit.
I can make decisions up to thislimit.
I'll tell you what.
I'll just skip asking you whatthat limit is, but I'm assuming
you have that in your managementagreement, that you, up to a
certain amount, you have thedecision to make or the ability
to make decisions on repairs.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
Of course, yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Okay, and so I'm assuming that you also have a
maintenance reserve that allowsyou, or portfolio reserve that
allows you, to pay vendors outof that reserve to cover that
limit.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
Yes, of course.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
Okay, all right.
So how did you determinebecause I've heard throughout
the country I work with propertymanagement companies throughout
the country how did you land onthe dollar amount that you
landed on?
How did you land on the dollaramount that you landed on?
And then do you get anypushback from that for people
saying, well, I want to know ifyou're going to spend a dollar,
I want to know about it.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Yeah, that can definitely be a tough
conversation.
As far as the number amount ofthe maintenance reserve, prices
are going up.
What we saw as maintenancereserves five, 10 years ago that
wouldn't even cover thehandyman to come out and replace
an air filter.
So prices are definitely goingup.
So maintenance reserves have togo up and that's something you
(25:29):
can explain to the homeowner asyou're bringing them on and
onboarding them.
As far as authority, of course,the management agreement says
we'll let you know up to thispoint, unless it's an emergency,
for instance, if their hotwater heater blows and there's
water all over the place, we'regoing to go ahead and have that
service completed and then reachout to the owner, let them know
(25:51):
what happened, tell them yougot good news.
There was no water damage, thehot water heater was replaced
quickly and the tenant's happy.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
And then, of course, on the next management statement
, they'll receive that invoiceas well.
When I first started doingproperty management, we didn't
have that extra clause aboutaccept or it's an emergency.
We just had our maintenancelimit, and sometimes we would
not be able to reach an ownerand we'd have a furnace that was
out in the middle of the winteror the water heater, as you
mentioned, and we just didn'thave the ability to take action.
(26:24):
And so one of the things thatwe've become really good at over
the years and that I help myclients with is setting a
default position.
So you have a default that, inabsence of any other information
, your team has the instructionson what to do, and so I really
(26:46):
like that.
Defining what is an emergencyand then just having that
already preset and defining theemergency could just be an
emergency, as I, I determine,you know, or whatever like, but
it has to be defined.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
Sorry.
In the state of Colorado it'sreally easy to find emergencies
now that we have suchhabitability laws.
Um, you know I'm an instructoras well.
Last year I put together a sixhour class covering property
management legislation, just for23 and 24, six hours of
material covering all thenuances that we have to pay
(27:27):
attention to and know about.
So, having the new habitabilitylaws, which are fantastic for
keeping properties in greatcondition, you have to have that
extra reserve and that extrapermission, because now it's not
necessarily our decision, oreven the owner's decision.
It's a habitability issue thathas to be maintained and taken
care of within a reasonableamount of time, as per the law
(27:49):
states.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
I always say that and I used to say this all the time
when I had my managementcompany.
But a client really only hiresa property manager for two
reasons, and that's to assistthem with minimizing the risks
associated with being aninvestment property owner, and
the second thing is to maximizethe long-term returns associated
(28:14):
with being an investmentproperty owner and so being able
to position why we need thatmaintenance reserve and why it
needs to be higher than it usedto be.
It covers both of those things.
It will help us minimize therisks because we can take action
when we need to, and then wecan maximize their long-term
returns, because any good vendorthat we have is only going to
(28:38):
do work for us for so long.
If they're going to have to goto the property, give you an
estimate, then wait for you tocontact the owner.
Then the owner doesn't get backto you, so they leave, they go
do another job, and then theowner gets back to you, and then
you call the vendor and say,hey, can you go back?
And it's just not worth it.
(28:58):
And so you lose good vendorsand they wind up having to
charge you more just to be ableto cover their costs, and so by
having that higher threshold,you actually are saving them
money by being able to get theservice done from one of your
trusted vendors that does a goodjob, that stands behind their
work and does it not at thecheapest price but for the best
(29:22):
value.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Absolutely, you're 100%, I agree 100%.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
Yeah.
So let's talk a little bitabout legislation.
I think that is a huge keydifferentiator.
Every property managementcompany that I work with I tell
them you know we are all thesame until we're not.
(29:49):
And what I mean by that is thepublic looks at us and says I
have property management companya, b and C and I think they all
do the same thing.
They're all just going tocollect my rent and get a lease
signed, and they probably don'tdo a whole lot more than that.
So, in absence of anything else, the only thing I have to pick
(30:12):
or use to pick is price, becauseif they're all the same, why
would I pay more for the sameservice?
And so I think that leaninginto the legislation and
creating marketing material andcontent and showing that you're
the expertise around thesethings not necessarily doing
scare tactics of oh, look out,all this stuff is coming down,
(30:35):
but educating them and thenshowing them how to minimize
that risk, I think is a reallygood tactic to help you become
different and to use that as adifferentiator.
Crazy it's become here.
(31:06):
What were some of the moreinteresting things about the
legislation that you wereteaching over the last?
Speaker 2 (31:09):
couple of years.
Oh my goodness, there's so much.
One that hit a couple of yearsago.
That I thought was interestingis that the landlord has to
mitigate bedbugs no matter whenthey show up.
I thought that was prettyinteresting.
We had that happen.
I had a tenant reach out to anexterminator and the
exterminator actually let thetenant know that he didn't have
to pay for that service.
(31:29):
That was nice.
The habitability law that cameout last year is so extensive
it's I mean, we're talkingprobably three hours worth of
content, but there's a lot oftimelines and you have to know
the timeline per each incident.
So if it's this incident, youhave this many hours, or if this
(31:50):
isn't, you have three days.
So a property manager has tostay up to date on all these
legislations because you couldlose a lot by not knowing what
you don't know.
Uh, another one that I bring upin when I'm teaching is the new
lead-based paint laws, andthat's actually a national um
organization.
Of course, the EPA and a lot ofproperty managers that I run
(32:13):
into don't even know that theyhave to be EPA certified,
meaning your property managerhas to go to the EPA class and
get an EPA certification, umcertification, in order to be
compliant.
So there's a lot that goes intoit that NARPUM definitely keeps
up with, and having NARPUM inyour back pocket is a great
thing so that you have thatinformation easily available to
(32:34):
you.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
To tie this part of the conversation back to
something we talked aboutearlier when you're working on
your realtor referral programproviding something of value to
them that they can then deliverto their sphere their people
that are buying investmentproperties or just to give them
something that is of value thatthey can share, because they're
(33:01):
looking to do the same thingwe're looking to do, which is to
provide value, to stayconnected to people, and so if
you do have a cheat sheet on thehabitability timelines, that is
something that would be greatto say.
Look, I'm just reaching out toother real estate agents in the
area.
I notice you do some realestate sales and you're active
(33:23):
in the same community I'm activein, if you're working with any
investors.
I just wanted to share with youa resource that we use to help
investment property owners withmanaging the timeline when it
does come to repairs and thingslike that, and so just trying to
find the little things in thelegislation or market trends or
(33:48):
anything like that I think is areally good way to stay in touch
, provide value and, at the sametime, show that you're an
expert and an authority in thespace.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
That's a great idea.
Another thing a lot of realtorsmight not know is about the
Denver rental license.
The Denver rental license issuch a big project that they
started two years ago.
I guess we're in our third yearnow and I think a lot of
investors aren't aware of thatwhen they're purchasing
properties within Denver County.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
Yeah yeah.
Within Denver County, yeah yeah.
Well, liz, it's been.
It's been a lot of fun havingyou on.
I'm curious what is there thatthat we didn't talk about?
That we should have?
That was top of mind for you.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
Oh goodness, I think you covered everything.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
Yeah, we did kind of.
We did kind of go through somethings, didn't we?
Well, I'm just really excitedthat we were able to connect
today.
I know that you're going to bereally successful here in
Colorado.
I'm actually really curiousabout how you're growing two
different companies in twodifferent markets, staying on
(34:58):
top of the trends, staying ontop of the laws, staying on top
of the different ways that youmarket.
I was on a call earlier with aclient where he was talking
about how Zillow was operatingone way and charging and having
them put their units into abuilding list and then other
markets are.
No, you can list them asindividual units and uh.
(35:21):
And so it's going to beinteresting for me to watch you
grow these two companies and tryto keep them separate, because
I think a lot of peoplefantasize about I'm, I'm growing
here, but I'd like to growfaster.
So instead of doubling downhere, I'm going to open a new
market market and some peoplehave wild success with it and
(35:44):
others just really complicatetheir lives.
So I'm sure you're going to dogreat with all your experience,
but it will be interesting towatch that, as you transform
that and try to keep thatseparate.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Well, thank you for the kind words.
We're super excited.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
Yeah, good.
Well, Liz, thanks for being onand appreciate the time and I'm
sure that I will see you eitherrunning around town here.
You actually live not too farfrom me.
You're kind of out west here, Ithink, right.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Yeah, and I'll be at the NARPA meeting in a couple of
weeks.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
Okay, all right.
Well, we will see you out there.
Thanks again.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
All right, thanks, tony.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
Thanks for tuning in to the Property Management
Success Podcast.
We'll be back with anothervalue-packed episode to help you
level up your propertymanagement game.
If you've got somethingvaluable out of today's episode,
please share it with a friendor colleague, and don't forget
to subscribe and leave a reviewso you never miss out on future
insights and strategies andtactics.
Until next time.
(36:44):
Here's to your success.
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