April 14, 2025 • 45 mins
Traditional property management is facing disruption as AI technology, wealth transfer, and housing affordability create an industry inflection point similar to major business transformations like Netflix overtaking Blockbuster. Pablo Gonzalez of Vendoroo discusses how embracing AI-native solutions will fundamentally change the value proposition for property managers.
• AI's true value lies in solving emotional problems, not just automating spreadsheets
• Property management technology is evolving from process-driven to context-driven solutions
• Companies differentiating through AI must translate technical capabilities into specific client benefits
• Creating a category of one requires evangelizing the problem, not just promoting your brand
• Future property management will fragment from binary choices into numerous specialized service models
• Generational wealth transfer is creating different customer expectations about service and technology
• The dominant solution of today will inevitably lose market share as new AI-powered options emerge
• Success requires delivering exceptional human experiences while letting AI handle routine tasks
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Property Management Success
Podcast, where we interviewleaders in the industry to
uncover the secrets toprofitability, efficiency and
achieving true freedom, whetherit's your time, money or
lifestyle, I'm your host, tonyKlein, and I'm here to help you
build a wildly successfulproperty management business.
Let's get to it.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcome back to another episode of the Property
Management Success Podcast.
I am super excited to be instudio today with Pablo Gonzalez
.
With Vendoroo, we're going todive deep into some of your past
and some of your pastaccomplishments and how that
applies to the propertymanagement space.
So super excited to have you onhere with me.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
I'm super excited to be here, tony.
I'm yeah, let's go, man, let'sget into this.
This is great.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
All right.
So I yeah, let's go, man, let'sget into this.
This is great is making wavesin the marketplace and property
management, so I don't want tomake the whole thing a
commercial, but I want to makesure that people understand.
The reason I wanted to have youon is because you guys are
doing some really unique,fabulous things in the
marketplace that is going tochange the face of property
management, and I wanted to haveyou on this platform to be able
(01:19):
to share with our audience alittle bit about what you're
doing.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Yeah, Thanks, man.
Like you said, I'm not new tobusiness and technically I guess
I've been in the propertymanagement space since 2020.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
I just didn't know.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
I thought I was in the real estate investing space
as the kind of fractionalevangelist for JWB Real Estate
Capital.
That's just like turnkey rentalproperty investing company.
But fundamentally I have beenfollowing this thesis of
community creation for businessdevelopment for 10 years and in
doing so I I got really obsessedwith a discipline of category
(02:02):
design, which is essentially howyou differentiate, radical
differentiation, how you createa different future than the past
.
And while studying that, youend up studying all these
different inflection points inbusiness and disruptions in
business of how did Tesla comeabout and all of a sudden become
(02:25):
more valuable than every carcompany ever?
How did Netflix take overBlockbuster?
How did Uber come right Like?
These are all quintessentialcategory design success cases,
and what is very exciting to mein what is happening in property
management is that all therecipes of category creation,
(02:45):
all the ingredients for it, arethere, right Like.
These moments of great changecome with great wealth building,
right Like the internet boommade a bunch of millionaires and
right now the AI boom ishappening worldwide.
While also within propertymanagement that's happening,
there's the great generationalwealth transfer that's
(03:06):
completely changing the customerbase and there's also this
affordability crisis that youknow, paired between like I
don't want to overvalue the WallStreet rush into the space, but
what it did is become a publicperception kind of like thing
for everybody.
And now we went from an industrythat kind of was like under the
radar to an industry that thepresident is talking about in
(03:29):
executive orders.
So when outset perception of anindustry changes, when your
customer expectation changes andwhen the tooling changes, is
the moment when these greatmoments happen, that great
wealth gets created and some ofthe people that are in pole
position end up going obsolete ala Sears, toys R Us,
(03:49):
blockbuster.
So when you say it kind of likewhat we're doing at Vendoroo,
to me Vendoroo is the voicethat's really leading this bat
signal of what AI is going to doin this space, and we see
ourselves as the really nativeAI company, not just a company
that every company needs tobecome an AI company.
(04:10):
We are AI from the ground upand we are coming at the
industry standing in the futureand trying to find the path to
it from where we are, as opposedto starting in the past and
figuring out how to make it fitinto the future.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
I was saying the dollars are in the past and
figuring out how to like make itfit into the future.
I was saying it's the, thedollars are in the change and
you guys are leaning into that,and it's not just you know.
I remember back in the earlytwo thousands with the tech boom
and, and they had a softwarethat then said oh well, our
software is now way web enabledor powered by the internet yeah,
(04:46):
we're a dot com yeah, but butyet your, your software, still
sucked, like you know how youdid, was you?
you latched on to this, thiscommon uh phrase, or this
popular new phrase of webenabled and, and I think there
are companies that are takingtheir existing thing, whatever,
whatever it is that exists, andslapping on some layer of chat,
(05:08):
gpt or something, and saying, ohwell, it's an AI solution, when
in fact, it's their oldsolution that either performed
well or sucked, but they justhave slapped on a layer of AI to
it and it sounds like whatyou're talking about is
something completely different.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
Yeah, it's, it's just ground up completely different.
It's every every software rightnow should be attaching AI to
things that they're doing, right, like they should be using AI
to do stuff.
It's just, when so many thingschange, the problem that we are
trying to solve might just bedifferent, and if you're not
asking that question right now,you may be missing by 10 miles
(05:50):
of where your destination isgoing to be, right.
So that's, that's the inherentthing, right, like we were
starting at the problem.
We're not starting at kind oflike where we're you know, kind
of like how we want to get there.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
I got a question I want to ask you about the AI and
AI technology, and I agree ahundred percent that I'm going
to assume that a lot of theproblems that we think we're
going to solve with AI are notthe actual problems that we wind
up solving.
We're going to solve biggerproblems, and so I want to ask
you a question, if you had topick one, one jar to focus on
(06:23):
are we focusing on fixingspreadsheet on?
Are we focusing on fixingspreadsheet problems or are we
focusing on fixing people inemotional problems?
Speaker 3 (06:33):
Yeah, it's not even close man, it's the people in
emotional problems.
Yeah, a hundred percent.
This is an emotional industry,right, like we've talked about
this Um and and and, really, ina world where, if, if you have
interacted with chat, gpt whichI hope our friend that's
listening has for their own sake, you have realized that you now
(06:56):
have computer wizardsuperpowers at the at your
fingertips.
I myself am somebody that istotally intimidated by
technology and I feel like Ihave computer superpowers right
now.
So, in a world where thetechnology piece and what you
can do with it is becomingcommoditized, the only moat is
(07:18):
the people part of it.
Right, like that is a way morecomplex equation to solve, and I
think that we all understandthat property management and the
real estate asset class ingeneral is a very emotional
asset class.
Right, like you're dealing withpeople's homes, you're dealing
with people's core needs at thebase of Maslow's hierarchy
(07:40):
shelter, safety, right, likethings of the sort.
So, um, yes, that's, I couldtalk for 10 minutes, but a
hundred percent people andemotional problems is that thing
that we're going to be able tostart to figure out.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
I think our, a lot of our industry is still stuck on
figuring out uh, they're,they're focused on I gotta, I
gotta create some software thatcan be hard-coded to follow a
certain process step.
I got 20 steps in this process.
I'm going to have my people I'mnot educating my people on why
(08:15):
we do things, but I'm educatingthem on how to do things and
they're going through these 20steps and when something doesn't
fit into that, they don't knowwhat steps to take because they
don't see the bigger picture.
They're stuck in getting thatframework down.
And I'm not against havingdocumented processes.
I think it's smart.
(08:35):
Just like on a football team,you line up on a line of
scrimmage and nothing happensuntil there's a trigger, and the
trigger is essentially a policythat starts that.
So there's some overarchingthing that happens and then
everybody on the team needs toknow exactly what they do to
execute that plate properly.
So I'm not against thestep-by-step, but I think, in
(08:59):
order to move into this othersolution of people and emotions,
we can't be so rigid in thatstep-by-step, but we still need
to execute and get us to thatsame outcome.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
Can we go really deep into this analogy?
I love football.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
All right.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
What I'm hearing you say is man, I can draw up a play
and I know that when the ballis snapped, the play starts,
right.
That is, that is you know, andand and there's great plays
diagrammed and there's greatplay callers and all that stuff
right, the teams that win theSuperbowl right, like you talk
(09:43):
about winning championships outhere.
The teams that win the SuperBowl right, like you talk about
winning championships out here.
The teams that win the SuperBowl have players on their team
that, once the play starts, thatquarterback may make a pre-play
read and believe that thelinebacker is going to cover the
running back and then, whenthey snap the ball, what ends up
happening is the linebackerblitzes and that quarterback
(10:05):
needs to make a snap decision onokay, if this linebacker is
blitzing, I know that thatrunning back that's going out to
the flat I can throw to him.
Somebody on the offensive lineneeds to recognize that that
blitz is coming and come offtheir original assignment and
pick up the blitz inside out,right, so that the quarterback
doesn't get hit and is able tothrow it Right.
(10:25):
And I think what you're sayingis essentially like people are
really obsessed with what playwe need to call, as opposed to
training folks on understandinghow to pick up the blitz and how
to read the defense and makethe right throw.
Um and I'm and I'm and I don'tblame them for it, because up
until now, that's the most thatyou could hope for from a
(10:46):
software right?
If I'm understanding youcorrectly, on the journey of the
property manager and Iintuitively feel it as an
entrepreneur you're trying toyou first build your business
and you're, first of all, you'retrying to get in the game.
You're trying to get playscalled for you.
You're trying to get in thegame.
You're trying to get playscalled for you and then, once
you start getting plays calledfor you, then you start
(11:08):
understanding these differentthings and you're starting to
get.
Well, I really want tounderstand the playbook so I can
execute this as well aspossible.
That's going to give me somekind of level of consistency,
and I've always been sold toolsthat can allow me to build a
better playbook.
Right.
What's changing right now withAI?
To build a better playbookright?
What's changing right now withAI?
The inflection point we're atis that these tools, this
(11:33):
technology, is going fromsomething that can call a play
to something that willunderstand how to pick up a
blitz right.
It's understanding contextualactions that need to take place,
that aren't just process-driven, that are context-driven.
And that's the big changethat's happening in the
artificial intelligence space ofgoing from well, first of all,
from software to AI, but fromlike, generative AI to agentic
(11:54):
AI.
That's the big difference.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
I want to go back like 15 years and tie in
something to this.
Yeah, I think it was 15 yearsago, something like that, there
used to be a website calledpeteranswerscom and you would
type in a question and it wouldgive you a response.
And it was amazing and peoplecouldn't figure out how it
worked.
Well, how it worked was youtyped a couple of codes in there
(12:20):
, so you would type the question, then you would type a couple
of characters and then you wouldactually type out the answer
and then you would type thequestion, then you would type a
couple of characters and thenyou would actually type out the
answer and then you would typeanother character and then it
would print on the screen.
So it was just, it was agimmick, yeah, but it amazed
people, yeah, and I feel likethat's kind of what ChatGPT has
done.
It made what, what was like agimmick is impossible for that
(12:41):
to happen.
Like people were like how didthat happen Then?
Then AI has now made thatpossible, and now I think people
are looking at that and saying,okay, well, if that's possible
today, what's possible tomorrow?
And in taking that andextrapolating that you know
(13:05):
we've talked about how thingsare no longer in this hockey
stick curve.
I think that Moore's law talksabout how the ability, the
processing power of a computerchip has doubled every 18 months
since 1960.
It continues to do that.
They say we're about to hit aceiling with that, with the
silicon chip and all that.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
You remember paying like a hundred bucks for a
gigabyte.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Yeah, my first computer had four meg of ram.
I was blown away, um, but itjust continues to evolve, and so
I think people that have theirhead down and say I'm running a
pretty good business and they'renot using ai, they're, they're
on their way out of business,they just don't own yeah, that's
(13:47):
fair.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
That's fair.
You know, there is that.
I feel like the moniker aroundit has evolved in my head right
like the first smart person tobe like ai is now going to take
your job, someone using ai isgoing to take your job sounded
really really smart to me and II believed it.
And um, and that's and that'svery real in the immediate
(14:08):
future.
Um, the truth is that in the inthe not so, you know, not so
immediate but not very far offfuture AI really is going to do
jobs.
Like AI really is going to dothis.
Right Like I really is going todo this.
Right Like I think we're veryclose to AI being able to
(14:30):
replace B minus and belowemployees and you know, if right
now, it's just somebody with AI.
Right Like the one personthey're talking about it right
now.
In like the tech startup world.
Right Like people are buildingbillion dollar companies with
like four dudes.
Right Like that was acompletely frame breaking thing.
Right Like um, that's reallyreally happening right now.
(14:53):
Um, and we're not even at thepoint where those four dudes can
also technically have a hundredemployees.
That just happened to be AIrobots, um, things that's really
happening, but that seemsreally weird and far off and
we're not good at understandingstuff like that as humans.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
So I have two questions.
I'm going to ask them both backto back so that you can kind of
complete one.
So the first question is isthis something it sounds like if
I've got a billion dollarcompany with four dudes and a
hundred AI robots?
Ai robots is this?
Is it only for, like, the ultrarich that are going to be able
to do this, or is this like, arewe going to be able to bring ai
(15:31):
into our, our everydaycompanies, the companies that
our property management friendsown?
yeah are we going to be able todo that?
And then the second questionthat I have, and this one's more
probably has a little bit moreuh on it, a little bit more
prickly If we can train theserobots to do this stuff without
(15:52):
people, do we have to beconcerned that property managers
and property managementbusinesses are going away and
will only be owned by?
A handful of large corporations?
Speaker 3 (16:05):
I love that question even more.
The first one's no man.
The first one is this stuff isgoing to get rapidly
democratized, right, like it is.
You know, and I think thepeople when, when we you know,
I'm a, I'm like an, uh, I'm likean environmental fanatic, right
(16:27):
.
So there is this.
There's this like story about,kind of like, before the
automobile came, came around, um, everybody was worried that, um
, big cities were going to havetoo much of a horse manure
problem, right, like there waslike big sanitation problems in
London and stuff like that,because there's just too much
(16:47):
horse manure.
And everybody's freaking outabout like how do we solve this
thing?
Cars came around and all of asudden, we don't need to solve
for horse manure problems, so,like, all the people that used
to shovel horse shit now don'thave a job.
But I would say that theautomobile created a whole bunch
of other jobs and a whole bunchof other ecosystems.
Right, in this law of categorycreation, there's a fundamental
rule that new categories createother categories, right?
(17:10):
So, however it changes, it'sgoing to change and, just like
the jobs that we do and thethings that we need to
accomplish, the goal is going tochange.
The problems to be solved willchange.
Now, what was the secondquestion that you said?
This idea of a propertymanager's um job going away.
Normally what happens in thesemoments is that the thing, the
(17:39):
the problem, gets defined in themost modern way possible.
Right, and once that problem isdefined in that way, somebody
comes in and figures out thebest way to define the problem
that everybody believes, and hewho or she who states the
problem the best is known tohave the best solution.
And if they execute correctly,that business captures 76% of
(18:02):
the market cap and everybodyelse is fighting for 24% of the
market cap of that problem.
So the beauty of propertymanagement is, I don't have a
(18:25):
hard time thinking that somebodyin denver is going to create
this, like the, the equivalentof, like the four-person billion
dollar company for the prop,for the biggest property
management company in the denvermarket, right, like, that
person is going to figure thatpiece out and they're going to,
they're, they're going to breakthe frame on what property
managers right now see as like,uh, an assumption of doors, that
(18:52):
per per employee.
Right, like, how many doors peremployee can I handle?
How much expertise per decisionthat is being made is injected
into that decision being madeand how much pain of ownership
of the business do I need toendure?
Right, like somebody is goingto break that in the, in the
model, in something that's goingto resemble, something that
(19:13):
feels a lot like what we believeproperty management to feel
like today.
But on top of that, I alsothink that, just like Amazon did
that, right Like Amazon becamelike the number one retailer and
now there's's really like theyown that, they own that market
share and Toys R Us is gone andSears is gone and all these
people are gone.
There's also a whole direct toconsumer ecosystem that sells
(19:36):
that has, like the one person,$1 million business, right,
(20:00):
no-transcript has a five-doorportfolio that can be like oh
you know what.
I'm not really happy with theexperience I just had with my
property manager.
Instead of shopping out to aproperty manager, isn't there an
AI app for that right now?
Isn't there a way that I can gofrom paying my property manager
(20:21):
$9,000 a year to maybe spending$1,000 a year in software and
maybe slightly more pain, butnot so much that I don't want to
do it myself and I can managemy five doors?
Oh, and if I can manage my fivedoors.
I can manage 25 doors like nobig deal, kind of like an Airbnb
operator or somebody that hasan Uber fleet now right.
(20:43):
So I think that's going to cometop down and bottom up in both
ways, and the thing that wealways see is that the main
shift is that we're going to gofrom we kind of just have two
versions right now.
We have do it yourself propertymanagement and we have property
management.
I think we're going to go see abunch of different versions of
property management now, right,and there is going to be like
one dominant design version, butthere's going to be a whole
(21:03):
bunch of other niches within itof like what the value you
provide is.
That is going to be much morebottom up, so it'll still be
there.
It just might not be.
In order to manage 600 doors, Ineed to have a staff of like 15
.
And it means that this is whatmy life looks like right now.
It might just mean that manthere's.
In order to manage a hundreddoors, I'm going to make more
(21:25):
money than the way that I usedto manage 600 doors with, and I
only have a staff of one me andI can do it from Cabo Sure.
That was a long-winded answer,but like it's a yes and no right
.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Yeah, I think when you were talking about the
different versions of propertymanagement, that's going to
exist.
I agree with that, and I thinkit takes me back to that time
when, um, and I can't rememberlaser discs, maybe there was
laser discs and then there wasthe battle between vhs and beta.
That, and I think technicallyfrom from what I remember, like
(22:00):
betamax technically was thebetter platform, but VHS leaned
into it and just startedpre-wanteting it more, and so
but it takes me down that paththat we need to spend more time
being conscientious about notjust doing the property
management that we're currentlydoing, but evaluating the
(22:21):
opportunities that are comingalong, so that we do, so to
speak, hitch our company to theright horse.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
Yeah, the, the, the nerd talk of that is it's the
dominant design, right?
Anytime you see this inflectionpoint of like how we do things,
um, you go through this likecurve where these new ideas come
out and then this one dominantdesign wins out, right?
Vhs was a dominant design thatwon out even though there was
8-track and beta and whateverright Like.
(22:48):
There was a couple of differentways of doing it.
Cds were a dominant design fora while, tapes were a dominant
design for a while, then CDs,now MP3.
You know, when you look at everysingle ride share app, it looks
like Uber, right, because it'sthe dominant design.
So at some point the marketthat sees the problem that you
(23:08):
solve in this new way willexpect a dominant design and
whoever kind of like wins out onwhat that dominant design looks
like, that's the person in yourmarket that's going to win 76%
of the market share, whileeverybody else is trying to
catch up to like fit into thatmold that they created market
share, while everybody else istrying to catch up to like fit
(23:28):
into that mold that they created.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
So I I say that to the public, especially people
who have never been managedbefore, they've never had a
property manager, and they haveit.
They they're an accidentallandlord and I know they're the
investor clientele uh, have adifferent persona to this, but
the large portion of theinvestor pool is that accidental
landlord, somebody that owns Ithink the last that I remember
(23:50):
was like 76 or 78% of all singlefamily homes are owned by
somebody that owns two or fewerproperties, and so the large
portion is that single familyinvestor that just two people
fall in love.
They decided to move intogether.
They have this other housewhatever, whatever the situation
comes up, they didn't intend tobuy this house initially to be
(24:13):
an investment, and so when theystart looking for a property
manager, they all look the same.
We're all the same to themuntil we're different, and so is
.
This is the use of AI, is theuse of tools like what, what
Vendoroo offers.
Is this something that weshould be promoting to our
(24:34):
clients that makes us different,or is this something that we
should be promoting?
Other things that make usunique?
And this is sort of the nuclearpower that fuels these
differences.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
Right now there's an opportunity to differentiate
through AI.
Right, Tesla differentiates asan electric car.
I think we're about five yearsuntil you just call it a car,
because most cars are going tobe electric at some point.
Right, like everybody now hasone.
Um, so I think right now it isstill unique.
Like you can go out to themarket and say we're the most AI
powered property manager, butyou have to frame that into like
(25:14):
cool, what does that mean forme?
What is it?
I don't care.
What does that mean for me?
Right, so like you can, you can.
You can be the person thattakes it, that goes to the max
with AI and then now creates avalue prop around.
Um, hey, you know, I realizedthat most people that are in
property, that that higherproperty managers are not real
(25:36):
estate investors.
They are two folks that ownedan apartment now because we're
getting married later, that'smore likely to happen Um, and
now, when they move in, theydecided to keep another one
because we're this like highinterest rate environment, it's
not that time to sell.
Maybe they just want to keep itbecause they like the idea of
it, but those folks are beingput into a bucket that is filled
of real estate investors andpeople like them, and a little
(26:00):
bit of institution andeverything in between, and a
little bit of institution andeverything in between.
The reason why that's happeningis because they you know, the
tools that were out there areprimitive and you couldn't
segment like that.
But I figured out because of AIthat you know that person can
be much better served by doingthis, this and this and this
(26:21):
that I can now do because and Ican do it at a lower cost than
was before because of AI.
So that's why couple that justgot married I am your do because
, and I can do it at a lowercost than was before because of
AI.
So that's why couple that justgot married I am your property
manager, right, and and and whatI just did there was a point of
view narrative, right.
Like the way that you, the waythat you differentiate around
whether it's AI or whether it'sum, personal transformation is
by including people into a storywhere you describe the state of
(26:43):
the world and kind of likewhat's missing in it and the
pain that comes with what'smissing in it, this new idea to
fill this like missing bucketand what that feels like for you
afterwards.
That's the way you woulddifferentiate around it.
So it can be AI now, but it canbe a million things.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
I want to keep going down that path because actually
there were two things I wantedto talk to you about.
The first one is AI andeverything you're doing in the
industry, and then the secondone is focusing on the community
building, the, creating newcategories, the way to have.
As a property managementbusiness owner I'm a small
(27:18):
business.
I've got one to 10 employees.
There are some, there are somethat are larger than that, but
statistically, most propertymanagement companies have less
than 10 employees, and so I wantto give them some meat in.
Okay, we've talked about thetool, but let's talk about how
we are different.
(27:38):
But before I do that I don'tknow if this is a great segue I
want to give you anything elseyou want to say about AI before
we move on to this other topicof the unique identifiers.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
Yeah, I think we can just land the plane with the AI.
Piece of what we're going fromis going from buying these tools
that help us better at our jobsto being able to find tools
that do our jobs for us.
And that might soundthreatening, but I rather think
of it as like going fromsomething that's making me do
(28:10):
something I didn't really wantto do but better, to some
something that's going to do thething I didn't want to do, so I
can go focus on, um, the thingthat I uniquely can do, or the
thing that fills my bucket, orthe things that actually moves
the needle uniquely can do, orthe thing that fills my bucket,
or the things that actuallymoves the needle.
And when going, when doing that, when doing that kind of like
transition, you go from asoftware procurement decision to
(28:36):
a hiring decision, right, likeyou are now essentially for
vendoroo.
What we've created is a way foryou to not have to deal with 80
to 85 percent of yourmaintenance, right From work
order creation, through triage,through troubleshooting, through
vendor selection, throughvendor coordination, through
(28:57):
follow up with a vendor, throughreporting to owner right.
And now what you can, what youcan do with that is say, okay,
so now I can choose to take that80 to 85 percent of time I was
investing in that, me or my team, and I can choose to grow the
business with it, which we havepeople that tell us that that's
what they do.
We have people that tell us nowI'm going to my kids sports
(29:17):
games, or you know.
You can say you know what, nowfor that like 15 to 20 percent
of stuff that that like is areally sensitive maintenance
thing that gets elevated, um,I'm going to just babysit the
shit out of it, right, becausethat is when I can lose a client
, um, and and that that mindsetgoes from this idea of like I
bought this tool and it doesn'twork for me immediately to Ooh,
(29:41):
I just hired the most, thehighest potential member of my
team ever, so I'm going to spenda little time training it so it
can be exactly like me, causenow I'm going to have this mini
me that forever, like that willnever take a day off and never
quit and answer emails at threein the morning.
So you know, that to me is justkind of like the mindset of the
(30:02):
property manager that's going towin next, they're going to be
able to not just standardize theexperience for their own good
and for the good of the standardexperience of everybody else,
but they're going to be able tolike have a standard experience
and then they're going to havebe able to have this like way
above and beyond experience,because the standard experience
is going to kind of be liketaken care of by these things
(30:26):
and I can really devote myselfto the human side of it in the
moments that humanity reallyreally matters.
And I think it's a differentmindset of the business that
you're going to be able to build.
It's not just like how do Iserve everybody on one plane,
but like how do I really thinkabout, you know, really
tailoring experiences to thecontext of the moment and the
way that only I and my bestemployees can do so.
(30:49):
That's just kind of like theoverall thing.
All right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Love it.
I would uh, I would feel reallybad for the audience if, if we
didn't shift gears and talk alittle bit about one of your
other strengths, yeah, and thatis you have a long background in
helping companies figure outhow to stand out in the
marketplace and how to createthat category of one, how to
(31:18):
rise above the noise, and youknow you dropped some names
yesterday with some people thatyou've been connected with in
the past.
That is really impressive withthe clientele that you've had
and, for the sake of time, we'lladdress that later with them.
(31:40):
And just overall, how can youhelp the property management
entrepreneurs that are listeningto this create a differentiator
?
What do they need to do tocreate a marketplace where they
are seen as a category of one?
Speaker 3 (31:56):
Yeah, I mean, that was essentially what my NARPUM
keynote was about last year atBroker Owner right?
You know, the way that youbecome the default solution for
the people that need what youhave to offer to them is not by
promoting the hell out of yourbrand, it's not by promoting the
(32:18):
hell out of your product.
It is by evangelizing a problem, right, like if you can define
a problem for somebody betterthan they can define it
themselves, if you can have themgo huh, oh right.
Like if you can take themthrough that bridge of just like
, oh man, that is how I woulddescribe how I'm feeling better
than I thought I could describehow I'm feeling.
Then they will believe you tohave the right solution.
(32:41):
And the way that that's done isthis like point of view
narrative, right, but it allcomes down to the insight that
you really believe in, right,like, if you are.
I heard you and Mark having thislike awesome conversation on
your latest episode of yourpodcast on the way here, about
how Mark wants to transformproperty managers into asset
(33:01):
managers, and you're like, Idon't know, there's a whole
market of people that aren'tthat and is it worth it?
I think it's worth it for both,of both the person that wants to
transform as an asset managerand the person that wants to
just serve that like couple thathas an extra apartment.
The thing is you need to takewhat you know about that client
and what their and what theirworld is, and like how that fits
(33:22):
into you know, like the painthat they're feeling, and wrap
it into a story.
I like to say that you neveryou never start a conversation
with anybody.
Conversation, um, you just canhope to join the conversation
already happening inside theirhead, right and creating a
narrative around a problem basedon this like point of view
perspective that you have.
(33:43):
That has this nuanced approachthat either takes a non-obvious
problem and makes it superobvious, or takes a non-obvious
solution to a problem that hasalways existed and made that
obvious.
That's the way that you getthem and if you can like nail
that thing and evangelize thehell out of that thing, then
you're going to attract.
It's the bat signal thatattracts exactly who you want to
(34:04):
serve.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
I love it.
There's a framework in some ofthe coaching that I do that
follows a similar path and it'sbasically we really focus on
identifying the pain points ofthe target client that we want
to serve.
And there are pain points forother people but we're not
trying to solve those becausethey're not the target client
that we want to serve.
The target client then gettingreally clear about their pain
(34:32):
points, and then you you canprobably help me explain this a
little bit better, but it's it'staking them through that
journey of making them problemaware and making them solution
aware and then making them awarethat you're the best solution
and I'm not sure what.
The third one, if that'sexactly the way that it's
phrased, but it's basicallythat's it, like you mentioned,
you know, focusing on those painpoints and speaking and
evangelizing the problem, versusshouting about your quarterly
(34:57):
inspections or your pricing.
Speaker 3 (35:00):
Yeah, or even the benefits that you deliver.
Right, like it's.
It's really that, it's reallythat problem.
The framework of how you takethem through that right Like the
category formula is contextshift equals missing, equals
need for an innovation right.
So if you can start, and whenyou get really clear on who you
(35:20):
serve and what their problemsare, the next step is to be like
oh, what created that problemand what's different now?
Right, Like, because if you can, just if you're able to like
hit the problem, that's great.
That means you're creatingempathy in the buyer's mind.
If you can figure out thecontext of like what changed and
(35:43):
why something that has changedis the reason that this problem
can now be solved, then youanswer the why now, and that's
what drives action right.
So if you get deep into thatproblem, you're gonna be like
man, that this problem can nowbe solved.
Then you answer the why now,and that's what drives action
right.
So if you get deep into thatproblem, you're gonna be like
man, this problem is happening,it feels like this.
People are gonna be like yeah,yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And you're gonna say like, andthe reason you know the reason
(36:03):
why this is happening is because, like we've gone it's called a
from to.
We've gone from this state tothis state, and you know,
nobody's really talking aboutthat 've that they've wanted.
So they expect you to get backto them in an hour, which is
(36:33):
something that they found inthat like PM trends report.
Right, like they expect thatbecause you know, you and I grew
up in an era where you'd belike, how many games did Cal
Ripken start for?
Uh, I think it was this many.
No, I think it was this many.
You know most folks that arenow inheriting these portfolios
they've just gone to Google andfigured that out, since they're
like 10 years old, right?
So, like, their inability toget an answer from you in under
(36:56):
an hour is maddening to them.
So we need to find ways to dothat.
If you're going to, if you'regoing to service that client,
this blanket platform that usesAI to like figure out exactly
what my ROI is so now we cansolve that for you, mr Client,
right, like, if that's, ifthat's what you're going for.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
Yeah, yeah, I've heard you mention the the
generational transfer ofproperties from the baby boomers
to millennials, that there's abig transfer of wealth and
properties portfolios.
I've not heard you touch on thefact that the same thing that's
(37:37):
happening in the investor spaceis happening everywhere else.
Right, I mean it's juststatistically.
And you look at people agingout.
There's businesses that need tobe turned over, people that
have property managementbusinesses are trying to figure
out what's the next thing.
Speaker 3 (37:54):
Yeah, the kid doesn't want to take it over I mean, I
had my son in the business.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
He worked with me for four years and he's like dad,
I'm investing in my thing, yeah,you know, and we, we tried to
give him the opportunity and Isaw it as an opportunity.
He saw it as a burden, as nothis thing, right, so, so, so,
you know, what do people thatare in this stage, either as the
(38:19):
person that's trying totransfer it, or the person who
is the, the millennial, or eventhe gen z that's like, hey, I, I
should be looking for theseopportunities to take over their
portfolio, and not either bybrute force or by, hey, let's do
my favorite, let's figure thisout.
Um, you know, how can I startto to recognize that?
Cause there's a few ways togrow.
One is just organically andlead source, and the other one
(38:40):
is let's buy a portfolio.
Um, you know, is there a waythat we can apply what we just
talked about to the approachingthose people who might be aging
out and ready to to transfertheir business?
Speaker 3 (38:54):
Yeah, um, you know the first thing that goes
through my head it's more reasonto not anchor in the past,
right, it's, it's more reason toum that was my shoe, by the way
, just for the record.
Um, it's, it's more reason toum.
I had this conversation withJordan Mwella of, like man, you
know, property management isgoing to change.
(39:16):
Someone's going to create this,like technologically advanced
companies.
Like man, the average propertymanager is just not thinking
like that, I'm like sure, butwho's the average person coming
into property management?
It's more like one of thesehungry millennials that's heard
about entrepreneurship throughacquisition and thinking I can
disrupt it with technology,Right.
So, you know, I would say that,within that narrative, you can
(39:39):
apply that to.
You just have to apply that tothe lens in which you see the
world, right, so if you are theyounger person that knows,
that's out there, I mean man,there's just so much content
about that these days, right?
So if you are, if you are theyounger person that knows that's
out there, I mean man, there'sjust, there's just so much
content about that these days,Right, like the Cody Sanchez's
of the world I think PeterLohman is in those is in those
circles too, right, Like, that'sactually where I met him in
(40:00):
this like mini hold hold coconference three years ago.
Um, yeah, you, you know, you,you, you take the new model
right Like the new.
The new model is like, how doyou, how do you create content
that allows you to beevangelizing this change that
you see and why you are theright solution for the person.
(40:21):
So, like, if, if what you aretrying to do is, um, acquire, uh
, a boomer owned business thatdoesn't have a, that doesn't
have an air, that wants to takeit over, you know, you can take
the approach of like I don'tknow, sending mailers to the
boomers, or you can take theapproach of just like making
content about.
Like hey, man, is your dadtrying to like saddle you with
(40:43):
this business?
Right, like, you don't have todo.
Like, you can say yes, and thenwe can work out a deal and I
can make you rich, bro.
I like, I just think that beingbeing anchored in the context
change is going to give you anabsolute advantage in speaking
to the person you're trying tospeak to in terms of what they
value versus what's in it foryou.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
I want to continue this conversation.
There's so much more I want totalk to you about.
I'd love to be back on anothertime where we can dive deep into
going into creating that, thatunique brand awareness.
Speaker 3 (41:18):
Yeah, not necessarily just the brand.
Yeah, we can get tactical onthat and I know that you have
like a, a rolling guest starstuff that happens on your show
and I'd be honored to be that.
Yes, tony, yeah, all right.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
Great, well, I'm going to wrap up with this.
Then I want to ask you and thenthis is going to be one of
those questions you're not goingto be able to answer but I want
you to answer with the changein technology, when the change
in transfer of businesses,transfers of portfolios, with
everything that's happening, youknow, we, we have things uh,
(41:49):
crashing into each other fromoutside of the industry coming
into the industry technologythere's so much change.
I don't think the human braincan actually comprehend the
amount of compounding changethat's happening right now.
What's the future look like infive years?
Speaker 3 (42:05):
Uh, the future looks different than the past.
Right Like the, the.
I think the best answer I goton this was like episode one of
my podcast with our founder,reza, and he just said he said
what I told you, right Like, hey, we're going to go from a
moment where it's like eitherproperty management or not
property management, and youmight even say there's property
management, there's no propertymanagement, there's
(42:26):
non-professional propertymanagement, you know, like the
realtor property management, or,and then there's
non-professional propertymanagement, you know, like the
realtor property management, or,and then there's like
professional property manager.
We're we're going to go into ainto a moment where there is 10,
20 different types of way ofdelivering property management,
because the tooling is going toget so unique, right, and it's
going to allow you to build suchdifferent things.
Um, so that that's the onething that I'm going to count on
(42:50):
.
The one thing I'm going to counton is that, when this stuff
happens, that old dominantsolution is de facto going to
lose market share.
Right Like, hotels are stillviable, but there's way less
market share in hotels now thatAirbnb is around.
Right Like, some brands aredoing great, the rest of them
are sucking shit and they've hadto get consolidated right, like
you're either this like awesomeboutique hotel now, or you're
(43:13):
another brand or whatever, andthere's a whole bunch of Airbnb
categories nowadays, right.
So to me, that's that's the onething I can definitely say
about the future is thatproperty management will have
many more options, and theoption that you know right now
to be true, as as the dominantoption, is not going to be as
(43:35):
dominant as it was in the past.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
I love that Fair.
Yeah, all right, cool, allright.
Man, great having you on.
Speaker 1 (43:39):
Great, this is great, man Cool.
Thanks for tuning in to theProperty Management Success
Podcast.
We'll be back with anothervalue-packed episode to help you
level up your propertymanagement game.
If you've got somethingvaluable out of today's episode,
please share it with a friendor colleague, and don't forget
to subscribe and leave a reviewso you never miss out on future
insights and strategies andtactics.
(43:59):
Until next time.
Here's to your success.
Welcome to the Property Management Success
Podcast, where we interviewleaders in the industry to
uncover the secrets toprofitability, efficiency and
achieving true freedom, whetherit's your time, money or
lifestyle, I'm your host, tonyKlein, and I'm here to help you
build a wildly successfulproperty management business.
Let's get to it.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcome back to another episode of the Property
Management Success Podcast.
I am super excited to be instudio today with Pablo Gonzalez
.
With Vendoroo, we're going todive deep into some of your past
and some of your pastaccomplishments and how that
applies to the propertymanagement space.
So super excited to have you onhere with me.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
I'm super excited to be here, tony.
I'm yeah, let's go, man, let'sget into this.
This is great.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
All right.
So I yeah, let's go, man, let'sget into this.
This is great is making wavesin the marketplace and property
management, so I don't want tomake the whole thing a
commercial, but I want to makesure that people understand.
The reason I wanted to have youon is because you guys are
doing some really unique,fabulous things in the
marketplace that is going tochange the face of property
management, and I wanted to haveyou on this platform to be able
(01:19):
to share with our audience alittle bit about what you're
doing.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Yeah, Thanks, man.
Like you said, I'm not new tobusiness and technically I guess
I've been in the propertymanagement space since 2020.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
I just didn't know.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
I thought I was in the real estate investing space
as the kind of fractionalevangelist for JWB Real Estate
Capital.
That's just like turnkey rentalproperty investing company.
But fundamentally I have beenfollowing this thesis of
community creation for businessdevelopment for 10 years and in
doing so I I got really obsessedwith a discipline of category
(02:02):
design, which is essentially howyou differentiate, radical
differentiation, how you createa different future than the past
.
And while studying that, youend up studying all these
different inflection points inbusiness and disruptions in
business of how did Tesla comeabout and all of a sudden become
(02:25):
more valuable than every carcompany ever?
How did Netflix take overBlockbuster?
How did Uber come right Like?
These are all quintessentialcategory design success cases,
and what is very exciting to mein what is happening in property
management is that all therecipes of category creation,
(02:45):
all the ingredients for it, arethere, right Like.
These moments of great changecome with great wealth building,
right Like the internet boommade a bunch of millionaires and
right now the AI boom ishappening worldwide.
While also within propertymanagement that's happening,
there's the great generationalwealth transfer that's
(03:06):
completely changing the customerbase and there's also this
affordability crisis that youknow, paired between like I
don't want to overvalue the WallStreet rush into the space, but
what it did is become a publicperception kind of like thing
for everybody.
And now we went from an industrythat kind of was like under the
radar to an industry that thepresident is talking about in
(03:29):
executive orders.
So when outset perception of anindustry changes, when your
customer expectation changes andwhen the tooling changes, is
the moment when these greatmoments happen, that great
wealth gets created and some ofthe people that are in pole
position end up going obsolete ala Sears, toys R Us,
(03:49):
blockbuster.
So when you say it kind of likewhat we're doing at Vendoroo,
to me Vendoroo is the voicethat's really leading this bat
signal of what AI is going to doin this space, and we see
ourselves as the really nativeAI company, not just a company
that every company needs tobecome an AI company.
(04:10):
We are AI from the ground upand we are coming at the
industry standing in the futureand trying to find the path to
it from where we are, as opposedto starting in the past and
figuring out how to make it fitinto the future.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
I was saying the dollars are in the past and
figuring out how to like make itfit into the future.
I was saying it's the, thedollars are in the change and
you guys are leaning into that,and it's not just you know.
I remember back in the earlytwo thousands with the tech boom
and, and they had a softwarethat then said oh well, our
software is now way web enabledor powered by the internet yeah,
(04:46):
we're a dot com yeah, but butyet your, your software, still
sucked, like you know how youdid, was you?
you latched on to this, thiscommon uh phrase, or this
popular new phrase of webenabled and, and I think there
are companies that are takingtheir existing thing, whatever,
whatever it is that exists, andslapping on some layer of chat,
(05:08):
gpt or something, and saying, ohwell, it's an AI solution, when
in fact, it's their oldsolution that either performed
well or sucked, but they justhave slapped on a layer of AI to
it and it sounds like whatyou're talking about is
something completely different.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
Yeah, it's, it's just ground up completely different.
It's every every software rightnow should be attaching AI to
things that they're doing, right, like they should be using AI
to do stuff.
It's just, when so many thingschange, the problem that we are
trying to solve might just bedifferent, and if you're not
asking that question right now,you may be missing by 10 miles
(05:50):
of where your destination isgoing to be, right.
So that's, that's the inherentthing, right, like we were
starting at the problem.
We're not starting at kind oflike where we're you know, kind
of like how we want to get there.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
I got a question I want to ask you about the AI and
AI technology, and I agree ahundred percent that I'm going
to assume that a lot of theproblems that we think we're
going to solve with AI are notthe actual problems that we wind
up solving.
We're going to solve biggerproblems, and so I want to ask
you a question, if you had topick one, one jar to focus on
(06:23):
are we focusing on fixingspreadsheet on?
Are we focusing on fixingspreadsheet problems or are we
focusing on fixing people inemotional problems?
Speaker 3 (06:33):
Yeah, it's not even close man, it's the people in
emotional problems.
Yeah, a hundred percent.
This is an emotional industry,right, like we've talked about
this Um and and and, really, ina world where, if, if you have
interacted with chat, gpt whichI hope our friend that's
listening has for their own sake, you have realized that you now
(06:56):
have computer wizardsuperpowers at the at your
fingertips.
I myself am somebody that istotally intimidated by
technology and I feel like Ihave computer superpowers right
now.
So, in a world where thetechnology piece and what you
can do with it is becomingcommoditized, the only moat is
(07:18):
the people part of it.
Right, like that is a way morecomplex equation to solve, and I
think that we all understandthat property management and the
real estate asset class ingeneral is a very emotional
asset class.
Right, like you're dealing withpeople's homes, you're dealing
with people's core needs at thebase of Maslow's hierarchy
(07:40):
shelter, safety, right, likethings of the sort.
So, um, yes, that's, I couldtalk for 10 minutes, but a
hundred percent people andemotional problems is that thing
that we're going to be able tostart to figure out.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
I think our, a lot of our industry is still stuck on
figuring out uh, they're,they're focused on I gotta, I
gotta create some software thatcan be hard-coded to follow a
certain process step.
I got 20 steps in this process.
I'm going to have my people I'mnot educating my people on why
(08:15):
we do things, but I'm educatingthem on how to do things and
they're going through these 20steps and when something doesn't
fit into that, they don't knowwhat steps to take because they
don't see the bigger picture.
They're stuck in getting thatframework down.
And I'm not against havingdocumented processes.
I think it's smart.
(08:35):
Just like on a football team,you line up on a line of
scrimmage and nothing happensuntil there's a trigger, and the
trigger is essentially a policythat starts that.
So there's some overarchingthing that happens and then
everybody on the team needs toknow exactly what they do to
execute that plate properly.
So I'm not against thestep-by-step, but I think, in
(08:59):
order to move into this othersolution of people and emotions,
we can't be so rigid in thatstep-by-step, but we still need
to execute and get us to thatsame outcome.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
Can we go really deep into this analogy?
I love football.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
All right.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
What I'm hearing you say is man, I can draw up a play
and I know that when the ballis snapped, the play starts,
right.
That is, that is you know, andand and there's great plays
diagrammed and there's greatplay callers and all that stuff
right, the teams that win theSuperbowl right, like you talk
(09:43):
about winning championships outhere.
The teams that win the SuperBowl right, like you talk about
winning championships out here.
The teams that win the SuperBowl have players on their team
that, once the play starts, thatquarterback may make a pre-play
read and believe that thelinebacker is going to cover the
running back and then, whenthey snap the ball, what ends up
happening is the linebackerblitzes and that quarterback
(10:05):
needs to make a snap decision onokay, if this linebacker is
blitzing, I know that thatrunning back that's going out to
the flat I can throw to him.
Somebody on the offensive lineneeds to recognize that that
blitz is coming and come offtheir original assignment and
pick up the blitz inside out,right, so that the quarterback
doesn't get hit and is able tothrow it Right.
(10:25):
And I think what you're sayingis essentially like people are
really obsessed with what playwe need to call, as opposed to
training folks on understandinghow to pick up the blitz and how
to read the defense and makethe right throw.
Um and I'm and I'm and I don'tblame them for it, because up
until now, that's the most thatyou could hope for from a
(10:46):
software right?
If I'm understanding youcorrectly, on the journey of the
property manager and Iintuitively feel it as an
entrepreneur you're trying toyou first build your business
and you're, first of all, you'retrying to get in the game.
You're trying to get playscalled for you.
You're trying to get in thegame.
You're trying to get playscalled for you and then, once
you start getting plays calledfor you, then you start
(11:08):
understanding these differentthings and you're starting to
get.
Well, I really want tounderstand the playbook so I can
execute this as well aspossible.
That's going to give me somekind of level of consistency,
and I've always been sold toolsthat can allow me to build a
better playbook.
Right.
What's changing right now withAI?
To build a better playbookright?
What's changing right now withAI?
The inflection point we're atis that these tools, this
(11:33):
technology, is going fromsomething that can call a play
to something that willunderstand how to pick up a
blitz right.
It's understanding contextualactions that need to take place,
that aren't just process-driven, that are context-driven.
And that's the big changethat's happening in the
artificial intelligence space ofgoing from well, first of all,
from software to AI, but fromlike, generative AI to agentic
(11:54):
AI.
That's the big difference.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
I want to go back like 15 years and tie in
something to this.
Yeah, I think it was 15 yearsago, something like that, there
used to be a website calledpeteranswerscom and you would
type in a question and it wouldgive you a response.
And it was amazing and peoplecouldn't figure out how it
worked.
Well, how it worked was youtyped a couple of codes in there
(12:20):
, so you would type the question, then you would type a couple
of characters and then you wouldactually type out the answer
and then you would type thequestion, then you would type a
couple of characters and thenyou would actually type out the
answer and then you would typeanother character and then it
would print on the screen.
So it was just, it was agimmick, yeah, but it amazed
people, yeah, and I feel likethat's kind of what ChatGPT has
done.
It made what, what was like agimmick is impossible for that
(12:41):
to happen.
Like people were like how didthat happen Then?
Then AI has now made thatpossible, and now I think people
are looking at that and saying,okay, well, if that's possible
today, what's possible tomorrow?
And in taking that andextrapolating that you know
(13:05):
we've talked about how thingsare no longer in this hockey
stick curve.
I think that Moore's law talksabout how the ability, the
processing power of a computerchip has doubled every 18 months
since 1960.
It continues to do that.
They say we're about to hit aceiling with that, with the
silicon chip and all that.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
You remember paying like a hundred bucks for a
gigabyte.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Yeah, my first computer had four meg of ram.
I was blown away, um, but itjust continues to evolve, and so
I think people that have theirhead down and say I'm running a
pretty good business and they'renot using ai, they're, they're
on their way out of business,they just don't own yeah, that's
(13:47):
fair.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
That's fair.
You know, there is that.
I feel like the moniker aroundit has evolved in my head right
like the first smart person tobe like ai is now going to take
your job, someone using ai isgoing to take your job sounded
really really smart to me and II believed it.
And um, and that's and that'svery real in the immediate
(14:08):
future.
Um, the truth is that in the inthe not so, you know, not so
immediate but not very far offfuture AI really is going to do
jobs.
Like AI really is going to dothis.
Right Like I really is going todo this.
Right Like I think we're veryclose to AI being able to
(14:30):
replace B minus and belowemployees and you know, if right
now, it's just somebody with AI.
Right Like the one personthey're talking about it right
now.
In like the tech startup world.
Right Like people are buildingbillion dollar companies with
like four dudes.
Right Like that was acompletely frame breaking thing.
Right Like um, that's reallyreally happening right now.
(14:53):
Um, and we're not even at thepoint where those four dudes can
also technically have a hundredemployees.
That just happened to be AIrobots, um, things that's really
happening, but that seemsreally weird and far off and
we're not good at understandingstuff like that as humans.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
So I have two questions.
I'm going to ask them both backto back so that you can kind of
complete one.
So the first question is isthis something it sounds like if
I've got a billion dollarcompany with four dudes and a
hundred AI robots?
Ai robots is this?
Is it only for, like, the ultrarich that are going to be able
to do this, or is this like, arewe going to be able to bring ai
(15:31):
into our, our everydaycompanies, the companies that
our property management friendsown?
yeah are we going to be able todo that?
And then the second questionthat I have, and this one's more
probably has a little bit moreuh on it, a little bit more
prickly If we can train theserobots to do this stuff without
(15:52):
people, do we have to beconcerned that property managers
and property managementbusinesses are going away and
will only be owned by?
A handful of large corporations?
Speaker 3 (16:05):
I love that question even more.
The first one's no man.
The first one is this stuff isgoing to get rapidly
democratized, right, like it is.
You know, and I think thepeople when, when we you know,
I'm a, I'm like an, uh, I'm likean environmental fanatic, right
(16:27):
.
So there is this.
There's this like story about,kind of like, before the
automobile came, came around, um, everybody was worried that, um
, big cities were going to havetoo much of a horse manure
problem, right, like there waslike big sanitation problems in
London and stuff like that,because there's just too much
(16:47):
horse manure.
And everybody's freaking outabout like how do we solve this
thing?
Cars came around and all of asudden, we don't need to solve
for horse manure problems, so,like, all the people that used
to shovel horse shit now don'thave a job.
But I would say that theautomobile created a whole bunch
of other jobs and a whole bunchof other ecosystems.
Right, in this law of categorycreation, there's a fundamental
rule that new categories createother categories, right?
(17:10):
So, however it changes, it'sgoing to change and, just like
the jobs that we do and thethings that we need to
accomplish, the goal is going tochange.
The problems to be solved willchange.
Now, what was the secondquestion that you said?
This idea of a propertymanager's um job going away.
Normally what happens in thesemoments is that the thing, the
(17:39):
the problem, gets defined in themost modern way possible.
Right, and once that problem isdefined in that way, somebody
comes in and figures out thebest way to define the problem
that everybody believes, and hewho or she who states the
problem the best is known tohave the best solution.
And if they execute correctly,that business captures 76% of
(18:02):
the market cap and everybodyelse is fighting for 24% of the
market cap of that problem.
So the beauty of propertymanagement is, I don't have a
(18:25):
hard time thinking that somebodyin denver is going to create
this, like the, the equivalentof, like the four-person billion
dollar company for the prop,for the biggest property
management company in the denvermarket, right, like, that
person is going to figure thatpiece out and they're going to,
they're, they're going to breakthe frame on what property
managers right now see as like,uh, an assumption of doors, that
(18:52):
per per employee.
Right, like, how many doors peremployee can I handle?
How much expertise per decisionthat is being made is injected
into that decision being madeand how much pain of ownership
of the business do I need toendure?
Right, like somebody is goingto break that in the, in the
model, in something that's goingto resemble, something that
(19:13):
feels a lot like what we believeproperty management to feel
like today.
But on top of that, I alsothink that, just like Amazon did
that, right Like Amazon becamelike the number one retailer and
now there's's really like theyown that, they own that market
share and Toys R Us is gone andSears is gone and all these
people are gone.
There's also a whole direct toconsumer ecosystem that sells
(19:36):
that has, like the one person,$1 million business, right,
(20:00):
no-transcript has a five-doorportfolio that can be like oh
you know what.
I'm not really happy with theexperience I just had with my
property manager.
Instead of shopping out to aproperty manager, isn't there an
AI app for that right now?
Isn't there a way that I can gofrom paying my property manager
(20:21):
$9,000 a year to maybe spending$1,000 a year in software and
maybe slightly more pain, butnot so much that I don't want to
do it myself and I can managemy five doors?
Oh, and if I can manage my fivedoors.
I can manage 25 doors like nobig deal, kind of like an Airbnb
operator or somebody that hasan Uber fleet now right.
(20:43):
So I think that's going to cometop down and bottom up in both
ways, and the thing that wealways see is that the main
shift is that we're going to gofrom we kind of just have two
versions right now.
We have do it yourself propertymanagement and we have property
management.
I think we're going to go see abunch of different versions of
property management now, right,and there is going to be like
one dominant design version, butthere's going to be a whole
(21:03):
bunch of other niches within itof like what the value you
provide is.
That is going to be much morebottom up, so it'll still be
there.
It just might not be.
In order to manage 600 doors, Ineed to have a staff of like 15
.
And it means that this is whatmy life looks like right now.
It might just mean that manthere's.
In order to manage a hundreddoors, I'm going to make more
(21:25):
money than the way that I usedto manage 600 doors with, and I
only have a staff of one me andI can do it from Cabo Sure.
That was a long-winded answer,but like it's a yes and no right
.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Yeah, I think when you were talking about the
different versions of propertymanagement, that's going to
exist.
I agree with that, and I thinkit takes me back to that time
when, um, and I can't rememberlaser discs, maybe there was
laser discs and then there wasthe battle between vhs and beta.
That, and I think technicallyfrom from what I remember, like
(22:00):
betamax technically was thebetter platform, but VHS leaned
into it and just startedpre-wanteting it more, and so
but it takes me down that paththat we need to spend more time
being conscientious about notjust doing the property
management that we're currentlydoing, but evaluating the
(22:21):
opportunities that are comingalong, so that we do, so to
speak, hitch our company to theright horse.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
Yeah, the, the, the nerd talk of that is it's the
dominant design, right?
Anytime you see this inflectionpoint of like how we do things,
um, you go through this likecurve where these new ideas come
out and then this one dominantdesign wins out, right?
Vhs was a dominant design thatwon out even though there was
8-track and beta and whateverright Like.
(22:48):
There was a couple of differentways of doing it.
Cds were a dominant design fora while, tapes were a dominant
design for a while, then CDs,now MP3.
You know, when you look at everysingle ride share app, it looks
like Uber, right, because it'sthe dominant design.
So at some point the marketthat sees the problem that you
(23:08):
solve in this new way willexpect a dominant design and
whoever kind of like wins out onwhat that dominant design looks
like, that's the person in yourmarket that's going to win 76%
of the market share, whileeverybody else is trying to
catch up to like fit into thatmold that they created market
share, while everybody else istrying to catch up to like fit
(23:28):
into that mold that they created.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
So I I say that to the public, especially people
who have never been managedbefore, they've never had a
property manager, and they haveit.
They they're an accidentallandlord and I know they're the
investor clientele uh, have adifferent persona to this, but
the large portion of theinvestor pool is that accidental
landlord, somebody that owns Ithink the last that I remember
(23:50):
was like 76 or 78% of all singlefamily homes are owned by
somebody that owns two or fewerproperties, and so the large
portion is that single familyinvestor that just two people
fall in love.
They decided to move intogether.
They have this other housewhatever, whatever the situation
comes up, they didn't intend tobuy this house initially to be
(24:13):
an investment, and so when theystart looking for a property
manager, they all look the same.
We're all the same to themuntil we're different, and so is
.
This is the use of AI, is theuse of tools like what, what
Vendoroo offers.
Is this something that weshould be promoting to our
(24:34):
clients that makes us different,or is this something that we
should be promoting?
Other things that make usunique?
And this is sort of the nuclearpower that fuels these
differences.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
Right now there's an opportunity to differentiate
through AI.
Right, Tesla differentiates asan electric car.
I think we're about five yearsuntil you just call it a car,
because most cars are going tobe electric at some point.
Right, like everybody now hasone.
Um, so I think right now it isstill unique.
Like you can go out to themarket and say we're the most AI
powered property manager, butyou have to frame that into like
(25:14):
cool, what does that mean forme?
What is it?
I don't care.
What does that mean for me?
Right, so like you can, you can.
You can be the person thattakes it, that goes to the max
with AI and then now creates avalue prop around.
Um, hey, you know, I realizedthat most people that are in
property, that that higherproperty managers are not real
(25:36):
estate investors.
They are two folks that ownedan apartment now because we're
getting married later, that'smore likely to happen Um, and
now, when they move in, theydecided to keep another one
because we're this like highinterest rate environment, it's
not that time to sell.
Maybe they just want to keep itbecause they like the idea of
it, but those folks are beingput into a bucket that is filled
of real estate investors andpeople like them, and a little
(26:00):
bit of institution andeverything in between, and a
little bit of institution andeverything in between.
The reason why that's happeningis because they you know, the
tools that were out there areprimitive and you couldn't
segment like that.
But I figured out because of AIthat you know that person can
be much better served by doingthis, this and this and this
(26:21):
that I can now do because and Ican do it at a lower cost than
was before because of AI.
So that's why couple that justgot married I am your do because
, and I can do it at a lowercost than was before because of
AI.
So that's why couple that justgot married I am your property
manager, right, and and and whatI just did there was a point of
view narrative, right.
Like the way that you, the waythat you differentiate around
whether it's AI or whether it'sum, personal transformation is
by including people into a storywhere you describe the state of
(26:43):
the world and kind of likewhat's missing in it and the
pain that comes with what'smissing in it, this new idea to
fill this like missing bucketand what that feels like for you
afterwards.
That's the way you woulddifferentiate around it.
So it can be AI now, but it canbe a million things.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
I want to keep going down that path because actually
there were two things I wantedto talk to you about.
The first one is AI andeverything you're doing in the
industry, and then the secondone is focusing on the community
building, the, creating newcategories, the way to have.
As a property managementbusiness owner I'm a small
(27:18):
business.
I've got one to 10 employees.
There are some, there are somethat are larger than that, but
statistically, most propertymanagement companies have less
than 10 employees, and so I wantto give them some meat in.
Okay, we've talked about thetool, but let's talk about how
we are different.
(27:38):
But before I do that I don'tknow if this is a great segue I
want to give you anything elseyou want to say about AI before
we move on to this other topicof the unique identifiers.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
Yeah, I think we can just land the plane with the AI.
Piece of what we're going fromis going from buying these tools
that help us better at our jobsto being able to find tools
that do our jobs for us.
And that might soundthreatening, but I rather think
of it as like going fromsomething that's making me do
(28:10):
something I didn't really wantto do but better, to some
something that's going to do thething I didn't want to do, so I
can go focus on, um, the thingthat I uniquely can do, or the
thing that fills my bucket, orthe things that actually moves
the needle uniquely can do, orthe thing that fills my bucket,
or the things that actuallymoves the needle.
And when going, when doing that, when doing that kind of like
transition, you go from asoftware procurement decision to
(28:36):
a hiring decision, right, likeyou are now essentially for
vendoroo.
What we've created is a way foryou to not have to deal with 80
to 85 percent of yourmaintenance, right From work
order creation, through triage,through troubleshooting, through
vendor selection, throughvendor coordination, through
(28:57):
follow up with a vendor, throughreporting to owner right.
And now what you can, what youcan do with that is say, okay,
so now I can choose to take that80 to 85 percent of time I was
investing in that, me or my team, and I can choose to grow the
business with it, which we havepeople that tell us that that's
what they do.
We have people that tell us nowI'm going to my kids sports
(29:17):
games, or you know.
You can say you know what, nowfor that like 15 to 20 percent
of stuff that that like is areally sensitive maintenance
thing that gets elevated, um,I'm going to just babysit the
shit out of it, right, becausethat is when I can lose a client
, um, and and that that mindsetgoes from this idea of like I
bought this tool and it doesn'twork for me immediately to Ooh,
(29:41):
I just hired the most, thehighest potential member of my
team ever, so I'm going to spenda little time training it so it
can be exactly like me, causenow I'm going to have this mini
me that forever, like that willnever take a day off and never
quit and answer emails at threein the morning.
So you know, that to me is justkind of like the mindset of the
(30:02):
property manager that's going towin next, they're going to be
able to not just standardize theexperience for their own good
and for the good of the standardexperience of everybody else,
but they're going to be able tolike have a standard experience
and then they're going to havebe able to have this like way
above and beyond experience,because the standard experience
is going to kind of be liketaken care of by these things
(30:26):
and I can really devote myselfto the human side of it in the
moments that humanity reallyreally matters.
And I think it's a differentmindset of the business that
you're going to be able to build.
It's not just like how do Iserve everybody on one plane,
but like how do I really thinkabout, you know, really
tailoring experiences to thecontext of the moment and the
way that only I and my bestemployees can do so.
(30:49):
That's just kind of like theoverall thing.
All right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Love it.
I would uh, I would feel reallybad for the audience if, if we
didn't shift gears and talk alittle bit about one of your
other strengths, yeah, and thatis you have a long background in
helping companies figure outhow to stand out in the
marketplace and how to createthat category of one, how to
(31:18):
rise above the noise, and youknow you dropped some names
yesterday with some people thatyou've been connected with in
the past.
That is really impressive withthe clientele that you've had
and, for the sake of time, we'lladdress that later with them.
(31:40):
And just overall, how can youhelp the property management
entrepreneurs that are listeningto this create a differentiator
?
What do they need to do tocreate a marketplace where they
are seen as a category of one?
Speaker 3 (31:56):
Yeah, I mean, that was essentially what my NARPUM
keynote was about last year atBroker Owner right?
You know, the way that youbecome the default solution for
the people that need what youhave to offer to them is not by
promoting the hell out of yourbrand, it's not by promoting the
(32:18):
hell out of your product.
It is by evangelizing a problem, right, like if you can define
a problem for somebody betterthan they can define it
themselves, if you can have themgo huh, oh right.
Like if you can take themthrough that bridge of just like
, oh man, that is how I woulddescribe how I'm feeling better
than I thought I could describehow I'm feeling.
Then they will believe you tohave the right solution.
(32:41):
And the way that that's done isthis like point of view
narrative, right, but it allcomes down to the insight that
you really believe in, right,like, if you are.
I heard you and Mark having thislike awesome conversation on
your latest episode of yourpodcast on the way here, about
how Mark wants to transformproperty managers into asset
(33:01):
managers, and you're like, Idon't know, there's a whole
market of people that aren'tthat and is it worth it?
I think it's worth it for both,of both the person that wants to
transform as an asset managerand the person that wants to
just serve that like couple thathas an extra apartment.
The thing is you need to takewhat you know about that client
and what their and what theirworld is, and like how that fits
(33:22):
into you know, like the painthat they're feeling, and wrap
it into a story.
I like to say that you neveryou never start a conversation
with anybody.
Conversation, um, you just canhope to join the conversation
already happening inside theirhead, right and creating a
narrative around a problem basedon this like point of view
perspective that you have.
(33:43):
That has this nuanced approachthat either takes a non-obvious
problem and makes it superobvious, or takes a non-obvious
solution to a problem that hasalways existed and made that
obvious.
That's the way that you getthem and if you can like nail
that thing and evangelize thehell out of that thing, then
you're going to attract.
It's the bat signal thatattracts exactly who you want to
(34:04):
serve.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
I love it.
There's a framework in some ofthe coaching that I do that
follows a similar path and it'sbasically we really focus on
identifying the pain points ofthe target client that we want
to serve.
And there are pain points forother people but we're not
trying to solve those becausethey're not the target client
that we want to serve.
The target client then gettingreally clear about their pain
(34:32):
points, and then you you canprobably help me explain this a
little bit better, but it's it'staking them through that
journey of making them problemaware and making them solution
aware and then making them awarethat you're the best solution
and I'm not sure what.
The third one, if that'sexactly the way that it's
phrased, but it's basicallythat's it, like you mentioned,
you know, focusing on those painpoints and speaking and
evangelizing the problem, versusshouting about your quarterly
(34:57):
inspections or your pricing.
Speaker 3 (35:00):
Yeah, or even the benefits that you deliver.
Right, like it's.
It's really that, it's reallythat problem.
The framework of how you takethem through that right Like the
category formula is contextshift equals missing, equals
need for an innovation right.
So if you can start, and whenyou get really clear on who you
(35:20):
serve and what their problemsare, the next step is to be like
oh, what created that problemand what's different now?
Right, Like, because if you can, just if you're able to like
hit the problem, that's great.
That means you're creatingempathy in the buyer's mind.
If you can figure out thecontext of like what changed and
(35:43):
why something that has changedis the reason that this problem
can now be solved, then youanswer the why now, and that's
what drives action right.
So if you get deep into thatproblem, you're gonna be like
man, that this problem can nowbe solved.
Then you answer the why now,and that's what drives action
right.
So if you get deep into thatproblem, you're gonna be like
man, this problem is happening,it feels like this.
People are gonna be like yeah,yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And you're gonna say like, andthe reason you know the reason
(36:03):
why this is happening is because, like we've gone it's called a
from to.
We've gone from this state tothis state, and you know,
nobody's really talking aboutthat 've that they've wanted.
So they expect you to get backto them in an hour, which is
(36:33):
something that they found inthat like PM trends report.
Right, like they expect thatbecause you know, you and I grew
up in an era where you'd belike, how many games did Cal
Ripken start for?
Uh, I think it was this many.
No, I think it was this many.
You know most folks that arenow inheriting these portfolios
they've just gone to Google andfigured that out, since they're
like 10 years old, right?
So, like, their inability toget an answer from you in under
(36:56):
an hour is maddening to them.
So we need to find ways to dothat.
If you're going to, if you'regoing to service that client,
this blanket platform that usesAI to like figure out exactly
what my ROI is so now we cansolve that for you, mr Client,
right, like, if that's, ifthat's what you're going for.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
Yeah, yeah, I've heard you mention the the
generational transfer ofproperties from the baby boomers
to millennials, that there's abig transfer of wealth and
properties portfolios.
I've not heard you touch on thefact that the same thing that's
(37:37):
happening in the investor spaceis happening everywhere else.
Right, I mean it's juststatistically.
And you look at people agingout.
There's businesses that need tobe turned over, people that
have property managementbusinesses are trying to figure
out what's the next thing.
Speaker 3 (37:54):
Yeah, the kid doesn't want to take it over I mean, I
had my son in the business.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
He worked with me for four years and he's like dad,
I'm investing in my thing, yeah,you know, and we, we tried to
give him the opportunity and Isaw it as an opportunity.
He saw it as a burden, as nothis thing, right, so, so, so,
you know, what do people thatare in this stage, either as the
(38:19):
person that's trying totransfer it, or the person who
is the, the millennial, or eventhe gen z that's like, hey, I, I
should be looking for theseopportunities to take over their
portfolio, and not either bybrute force or by, hey, let's do
my favorite, let's figure thisout.
Um, you know, how can I startto to recognize that?
Cause there's a few ways togrow.
One is just organically andlead source, and the other one
(38:40):
is let's buy a portfolio.
Um, you know, is there a waythat we can apply what we just
talked about to the approachingthose people who might be aging
out and ready to to transfertheir business?
Speaker 3 (38:54):
Yeah, um, you know the first thing that goes
through my head it's more reasonto not anchor in the past,
right, it's, it's more reason toum that was my shoe, by the way
, just for the record.
Um, it's, it's more reason toum.
I had this conversation withJordan Mwella of, like man, you
know, property management isgoing to change.
(39:16):
Someone's going to create this,like technologically advanced
companies.
Like man, the average propertymanager is just not thinking
like that, I'm like sure, butwho's the average person coming
into property management?
It's more like one of thesehungry millennials that's heard
about entrepreneurship throughacquisition and thinking I can
disrupt it with technology,Right.
So, you know, I would say that,within that narrative, you can
(39:39):
apply that to.
You just have to apply that tothe lens in which you see the
world, right, so if you are theyounger person that knows,
that's out there, I mean man,there's just so much content
about that these days, right?
So if you are, if you are theyounger person that knows that's
out there, I mean man, there'sjust, there's just so much
content about that these days,Right, like the Cody Sanchez's
of the world I think PeterLohman is in those is in those
circles too, right, Like, that'sactually where I met him in
(40:00):
this like mini hold hold coconference three years ago.
Um, yeah, you, you know, you,you, you take the new model
right Like the new.
The new model is like, how doyou, how do you create content
that allows you to beevangelizing this change that
you see and why you are theright solution for the person.
(40:21):
So, like, if, if what you aretrying to do is, um, acquire, uh
, a boomer owned business thatdoesn't have a, that doesn't
have an air, that wants to takeit over, you know, you can take
the approach of like I don'tknow, sending mailers to the
boomers, or you can take theapproach of just like making
content about.
Like hey, man, is your dadtrying to like saddle you with
(40:43):
this business?
Right, like, you don't have todo.
Like, you can say yes, and thenwe can work out a deal and I
can make you rich, bro.
I like, I just think that beingbeing anchored in the context
change is going to give you anabsolute advantage in speaking
to the person you're trying tospeak to in terms of what they
value versus what's in it foryou.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
I want to continue this conversation.
There's so much more I want totalk to you about.
I'd love to be back on anothertime where we can dive deep into
going into creating that, thatunique brand awareness.
Speaker 3 (41:18):
Yeah, not necessarily just the brand.
Yeah, we can get tactical onthat and I know that you have
like a, a rolling guest starstuff that happens on your show
and I'd be honored to be that.
Yes, tony, yeah, all right.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
Great, well, I'm going to wrap up with this.
Then I want to ask you and thenthis is going to be one of
those questions you're not goingto be able to answer but I want
you to answer with the changein technology, when the change
in transfer of businesses,transfers of portfolios, with
everything that's happening, youknow, we, we have things uh,
(41:49):
crashing into each other fromoutside of the industry coming
into the industry technologythere's so much change.
I don't think the human braincan actually comprehend the
amount of compounding changethat's happening right now.
What's the future look like infive years?
Speaker 3 (42:05):
Uh, the future looks different than the past.
Right Like the, the.
I think the best answer I goton this was like episode one of
my podcast with our founder,reza, and he just said he said
what I told you, right Like, hey, we're going to go from a
moment where it's like eitherproperty management or not
property management, and youmight even say there's property
management, there's no propertymanagement, there's
(42:26):
non-professional propertymanagement, you know, like the
realtor property management, or,and then there's
non-professional propertymanagement, you know, like the
realtor property management, or,and then there's like
professional property manager.
We're we're going to go into ainto a moment where there is 10,
20 different types of way ofdelivering property management,
because the tooling is going toget so unique, right, and it's
going to allow you to build suchdifferent things.
Um, so that that's the onething that I'm going to count on
(42:50):
.
The one thing I'm going to counton is that, when this stuff
happens, that old dominantsolution is de facto going to
lose market share.
Right Like, hotels are stillviable, but there's way less
market share in hotels now thatAirbnb is around.
Right Like, some brands aredoing great, the rest of them
are sucking shit and they've hadto get consolidated right, like
you're either this like awesomeboutique hotel now, or you're
(43:13):
another brand or whatever, andthere's a whole bunch of Airbnb
categories nowadays, right.
So to me, that's that's the onething I can definitely say
about the future is thatproperty management will have
many more options, and theoption that you know right now
to be true, as as the dominantoption, is not going to be as
(43:35):
dominant as it was in the past.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
I love that Fair.
Yeah, all right, cool, allright.
Man, great having you on.
Speaker 1 (43:39):
Great, this is great, man Cool.
Thanks for tuning in to theProperty Management Success
Podcast.
We'll be back with anothervalue-packed episode to help you
level up your propertymanagement game.
If you've got somethingvaluable out of today's episode,
please share it with a friendor colleague, and don't forget
to subscribe and leave a reviewso you never miss out on future
insights and strategies andtactics.
(43:59):
Until next time.
Here's to your success.
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