March 10, 2025 • 53 mins
Jared Larkin, Denver's "Mile High Title Guy," shares how he transformed his title insurance career by providing marketing value to real estate professionals, creating an attraction-based business model rather than chasing clients.
• Standing out in commoditized industries requires providing unique value beyond the basic service
• Hosting in-person events creates stronger connections than virtual options, even if attendance is small
• Follow-up systems are crucial – collect contact information at events using lead magnets
• Consistent content delivery across multiple channels builds awareness over time
• Meta (Facebook/Instagram) ads offer extremely targeted marketing for pennies per impression
• Custom audience targeting lets you serve ads directly to specific contacts with their email/phone
• Direct mail works best when you understand your audience data and craft compelling messaging
• True success comes from giving value first without expectation of immediate return
• Property data tools available through title companies can help identify highly targeted prospects
• Weekly email drips should provide value first, promote upcoming events, and include personal content
If you've got something valuable out of today's episode, please share it with a friend or colleague, and don't forget to subscribe and leave a review so you never miss out on future insights, strategies, and tactics.
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visit pmsuccess.com for more value packed property management related information or to hire Tony as your property management coach.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's a lot of relationships, whether it's with
people who send you multipledeals a month or one deal a year
and everything in between.
So it's constantly buildingyour network, but also having
purpose, like you said.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Welcome to the Property Management Success
Podcast, where we interviewleaders in the industry to
uncover the secrets toprofitability, efficiency and
achieving true freedom.
Whether it's your time, moneyor lifestyle, I'm your host,
Tony Klein, and I'm here to helpyou build a wildly successful
property management business.
Let's get to it.
Welcome back to another episodeof the Property Management
(00:33):
Success Podcast.
Today, I am really excited tobe joined by Jared Larkin here
from Denver, the Mile High City.
Jared, welcome, hey, Tony,Thanks for having me.
Yeah, absolutely.
I've been following yourjourney for many years and I
want to share with our audiencea little bit about who you are
(00:53):
and what you're all about.
But I want to also spin notjust what you're doing but how
you came to be sort of this iconin the marketplace.
So I know they refer to you asthe Mile High Title Guy from
Chicago Title and we'll get intoa little bit of how that came
about, but just kind of sharewith folks your current role in
(01:17):
what you're doing and whatcompany you're with.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Sure, yeah, Thanks again for having me on.
Yeah, oh, my goodness.
So it's cool, right.
This is kind of coming fullcircle because back in what?
2017, I found my way stumblinginto the world of title
insurance sales, that Chicagotitle.
There is another salesprofessional who was training me
(01:43):
at the time and I remember hewas trying to advise me on what
to do, how to meet people inreal estate, how to get title
orders.
Your name actually popped upand I remember calling on you
within the first couple monthsand trying to meet up with you,
having no idea what I was doingwhatsoever, but that was the
objective.
So it's funny to come fullcircle here and now fast forward
(02:07):
almost eight years.
Yeah, I'm a sales rep forChicago Title, which is we're
all for Colorado, but we're alsonational with over 1200 offices
.
Quite frankly, the truth is, Ialways say this when it comes to
the world of title insurance ifsomeone needs a title company
for a real estate transaction,if they're buying a home,
(02:29):
selling a home, investingthere's a financial aspect on
the lending side as well fortitle insurance but they're
going to choose a company andthe world of title insurance.
We're very regulated when itcomes to pricing and we have to
provide great service.
And unfortunately I'll say this, but I think it's true for most
people they see it as acommoditized industry and the
truth is, if Tony is happy atXYZ Title Company, why should he
(02:52):
leave?
He's happy, he's got a goodcloser who's closing his
transactions and really my mainrole is to come along, I guess,
and kind of disrupt thoserelationships, and I have to do
that by providing some sort ofvalue.
So I stumbled into this world oftitle insurance, having no idea
how it all worked.
Just kind of, you know, like weall do in the world of, I guess
(03:14):
, sales and figuring outbusinesses, we just kind of fail
forward and try things.
My background is in marketing.
I used to run a boutiquemarketing company.
We did video production, socialmedia stuff like that, and
that's the world that I'vealways loved living and
breathing in and I apply mybackground and ever-changing
(03:34):
knowledge in the marketing spaceto help real estate
professionals grow theirbusiness.
The goal is to help them withtheir business.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
And, yeah, stop there , let's not jump too far ahead
because I want to tie thistogether.
Got questions People that arelistening to a property
management podcast.
They're thinking, okay, whatdoes title insurance have to do
with property management?
Because we're not going throughthose transactions.
But the reason I really wantedto connect with you and bring
you back on.
I actually remember that.
I think I even came to theoffice at one point after you
(03:59):
connected.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
You're really nice.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
You're really kind.
You hooked me and we weretalking about all of these
different marketing ways that wecould stand out in the
marketplace, but I want to tiethis back.
So you mentioned that titleinsurance is viewed as almost a
commoditized service, and Ithink in the property management
space, a lot of the consumerskind of see property managers in
(04:24):
that same light.
Now, there's a thousanddifferent ways to run a property
management business, but untilyou have created some unique
characteristics about yourcompany, some unique problem
that you solve, some uniquemessaging that you send out, we
are all the same to them.
And if we're all the same,they're going to determine who
(04:45):
they use based on price.
How do I get the most servicefor the lowest price as opposed
to I'm just going to look forsomebody that actually is the
right fit for me, and so I thinkthere's some similarities
between your business and yourindustry and the property
management space.
Now, luckily, we aren'tregulated by price.
(05:08):
We can charge whatever we want,and so there's a lot of
different ways to what I saystack the nickels to make a
dollar in the propertymanagement space, but it's very
similar.
Let's talk about that journeyand how you applied your
background, your marketingexpertise, because I think it's
super fascinating how I I wasreally dialed in with my title
(05:34):
company when, when you and Iconnected and I, there was no
reason for me to switch.
I mean, it's kind of one ofthose things right, it's just,
it's paperwork, right For us asagents, and so everything's
going smooth.
Why screw that up?
Why switch?
And I think it's similar topeople who either have a current
(05:55):
property manager or they'relooking for one, like what makes
us stand out in the marketplace.
So take us on that journey ofwhere this kind of clicked for
you on how to apply some of yourbackground and your skills into
turning heads and gettingpeople to pay attention.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Yeah.
So getting into the world oftitle insurance sales and then,
of course, versus propertymanagement, I agree with you, we
can be seen somewhatcommoditized.
So for me personally, when Ijumped into title insurance, I
knew nobody I'm not fromColorado, I'm a transplant.
The title insurance industry Iknew nobody.
I'm not from Colorado, I'm atransplant.
The title insurance industryalso is a very, very high volume
business.
I always share this example.
(06:32):
For you as a salesperson, toreally be kind of top of your
game, successful in it, I mean,you need to be personally
closing over 100 transactions amonth.
I mean it's very, very highvolume.
So, for me, getting into thisbusiness and bright-eyed,
bushy-tailed, like let's go,having no idea what this path
was, it's a lot of relationships, whether it's with people who
send you multiple deals a monthor one deal a year and
(06:54):
everything in between.
So it's constantly buildingyour network, but also having
purpose, like you said, and forme, it was the marketing thing.
So, starting out, the corefocus that I had was hey, I'm
going to help people in the realestate space, specifically real
estate agents, mortgage lenderswith their marketing.
When it comes to video, this was2017.
Video was around, people weredoing it, but not nearly as
(07:16):
prevalent as it is now here in2025.
It was such a leg up, in myopinion, to be able to leverage
video for your business in termsof just an exposure standpoint,
a marketing standpoint, so manythings.
So I started teaching videoclasses.
Guess what?
Nobody showed up to them.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Nobody wants to be on video, right?
Speaker 1 (07:32):
No, I realize people that want to be on video To
answer your question on what wasthat process.
It's a never evolving process.
I would just throw things atthe wall and saw what stick.
I tried things and I was justlike you know what.
I had a very simple mindset.
It was either I'm going to makeit in this business and just
(07:53):
try things and I might embarrassmyself along the way, or I'm
just going to get fired.
So it's like it's like worstcase scenario.
You know I'll get fired andI'll just go start a marketing
company.
So, anyway, just kept dialingthrough that and trying the
video, workshops and whatnot.
And that led into other things,though.
I started collaborating indifferent mastermind groups with
(08:13):
other people in the marketingspace.
Specifically, there was one guya huge shout out to Cameron.
He was doing Facebook ads forreal estate.
Before it was even cool, and Ijust started learning from these
different individuals that weresharing their knowledge and
teaching classes.
I would have them come speakand stuff, and then I realized
there was so much more.
So what started as video turnedinto yeah, I'll still help you
(08:34):
with your video and that classis getting dialed in and that
education, but then let's helpyou with your Facebook ads or
your social media, and reallywhat happened was you just have
to stumble forward because youdon't know what people want
until you try things and theyask you questions.
Okay, and I have a rule If Iget asked the same question
three times, I write it down.
(08:55):
I have this ever endless Googledocument of just ideas that I
need to create content on,because I know that if I'm
getting asked the same questionsrepeatedly, other people want
to know it, and of course, thisties back into my video.
Big belief into it right Is, aswe grow our businesses, we want
to scale.
The only thing that is mostvaluable to us is our time, and
(09:17):
how can we get our time back?
So I'm constantly putting outvideos on most frequently asked
questions that I can share andput out to the world to
essentially get my time back butalso be a resource for people.
So fast forward though, man.
It was a grind.
I mean I'm not going to lie,tony.
I almost quit like two-ishyears in.
I was just kind of waiting.
I mean I was doing all theright things Again, like I said,
(09:40):
high volume business and prettymuch all commission.
So I mean, if you're notbringing in deals, you're not
making money.
And I just remember one night Iwas with my wife in bed and she
just looks at me.
She's like how long are yougoing to do this thing for?
You're like you're gone fromlike 8am to 8pm.
You don't make any money.
What's next, really?
(10:00):
And I kind of died out for alittle bit in terms of like
maybe I'll just let them fire meand see where it goes.
But then things started to pickup.
All those things that I did forthe past two years finally
started to snowball and itstarted to get easier, I think,
just like any business thatyou're going to start and slowly
grew, grew, grew, grew, grew.
But without a doubt, I just hadto try a ton of things, and
(10:22):
that'd be my advice to anyone isjust take a shot, because you
don't know what's going tohappen.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
I think it's interesting because you were
trying things that didn'tnecessarily lead you couldn't
draw a straight line from theactivity you were doing to
closing a deal and having moneyput in your pocket.
But yet you saw the biggerpicture and at the time you were
trying that I've got to thinkthat there's like you mentioned.
You thought, well, I'm eithergoing to keep doing this until I
(10:51):
get fired or it works, and thenthat sort of petered out a
little bit and then it became,well, it's not working, maybe
they'll fire me, but you justkept doing it and you just kept
doing it.
What was that like in your mindwhere you're putting out all of
this effort?
You're going against the grain,because there was nobody else
in this marketplace doinganything close to this when you
(11:11):
started doing it and, frankly,there's nobody that's even close
to touching what you do now inthis space.
But what was it like?
What were you telling yourselfto be able to keep going through
that when everybody else is?
Everybody else is going leftand you're going right.
How did you keep going throughthat?
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Yeah, when I got into title insurance sales and I
would call on agents or reachout to them, it was exactly what
you said, tony.
They're already happy wherethey were at.
They didn't need me.
Why would they need me?
Because I don't know.
Back in 2017, the commonconception of a title insurance
salesperson was, quite frankly,a good-looking woman that took
(11:50):
you out for drinks and whatevergolf game whatever and I love
doing all that stuff too butthey weren't trying to help you
with your business, and that waswhere I saw the missing piece.
I was just like man, this hasgot to work.
It just makes sense If I canlegitimately help these real
estate people out with growingtheir business and we can form a
partnership.
It can be a mutual benefit.
And I agree with you, it's hardconnecting the dots from the
(12:12):
marketing standpoint to title,and I think one important lesson
that I learned a couple ofyears in was you have to ask for
the business.
I think any business you're in,I think if you deliver value
and you truly are helpingsomeone, I think it's okay to
ask for the business, right.
So that was one huge learninglesson for me, because sometimes
(12:33):
I would help people and it wasalmost like I was this marketing
guy that just I guess theythought I got paid somehow but I
didn't and that was honestly myfault, so I had to connect it
back to title insurance sales.
So I would say I'm a marketingconsultant, but I sell title
insurance and we're going totake care of you on the title
insurance side, no matter what.
We have a great team, we'regoing to perform, we're going to
(12:54):
do a great job and, in additionto that, I get to help you with
your business, whatever thatmay be, whether it's Facebook
ads, google ads, video, socialmedia, farming, right A category
happy to help.
It was tough.
It was tough, but it wasperfect time in my life.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
I was what?
26 years old and you knowmaking it work and just grinded
through it.
Now I see and I connect, I seeyour stuff all over social media
, all the different classesyou're doing, all of the
different events that you'rehosting, and it's hard to
imagine you back in the daybefore all of this took place,
picking up the phone and makingcold calls and all of that.
There's two different ways, Ithink, to get business.
One is to go out and huntpeople down and the other way is
(13:41):
to be such a unique movement inthe marketplace.
It draws people to you.
And so tell me a little bitabout the evolution of the
classes, the events that you'redoing, and you know kind of like
what it was like in thebeginning.
And then what's your normal day?
And I know we just kind of camethrough the, you know, december
(14:01):
, january months, and so maybeit's a little bit different, but
on an average month, what doesyour month look like in this
attraction marketing that you'redoing?
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Yeah, starting out in title insurance, I tried
everything Cold called.
I did Popeyes, oh my goodness.
I used to go to Costco andcreate baskets and I printed out
stickers with my name on them.
It's like call me, oh mygoodness, I would show up to
these real estate offices, right, because there was this
successful sales rep.
She's like this is how I builtmy business.
(14:33):
So I said, okay, I'll try this.
And it didn't work for me.
I felt like I was interruptingpeople while they were trying to
work, or there was just nobodyin the office, because real
estate people are out and aboutdoing their jobs as well.
So, whether it was cold callingor pop buys or random networking
events, what I realized fromdoing a networking event every
(14:54):
single day I mean, I was in allof them trying stuff was they
were good, but they didn'talways curate and bring in the
people.
That necessarily fit my filterin terms of who I could help and
it comes to the title space,but in addition to their
marketing and all that.
So I realized a couple of yearsin hey, I want to do my own
events, I want to do my owngroup and move forward in that
(15:17):
direction.
So I started leaning much moreheavily into.
I'm going to do classes and Iwant to do attraction versus
chase model.
Right, I want to attract versuschase.
I created this group.
We were around for a few yearsuntil, honestly, it just became
a bunch of work.
And then COVID hit.
But we used to throw these funevents where it was very
(15:37):
expensive to attend.
We had live music.
We raised a bunch of money forlocal charities.
At every event.
It was just a good group ofpeople that would attend and
this thing grew organically,which was fun.
So again, whether it was tryingcreating my own group of
individuals that wanted to showup and learn and have fun and
network and all that, or it wasthe classes.
Now the classes.
(15:57):
When I first started out, like Isaid, nobody showed up to these
things Maybe one person and Ijust was like I'm going to keep
trying this thing becauseclearly I'm not marketing these
right or whatever.
And what's fun about my rolebeing in a sales space?
And, yes, I'm selling titleinsurance, but I'm still in
sales, I still am running my ownbusiness and I still have to
perform marketing duties and Igot to learn how to do all this
on my side.
So that way, when I sit downwith someone else, I know
(16:19):
exactly what I'm talking aboutand I've already kind of failed
at what didn't work and Ifigured out what does work.
I figured out what I needed todo to get my events out to the
world and really specificallythe real estate space, and it
was just honestly repetition andtrying things and doing stuff
and just continuing to marketpeople and slowly growing my
(16:39):
brand.
And one theme that I've alwayshad since day one with anything
that I do is that if you come toone of my classes or events
that I host and now I'm hostingabout oh my goodness, you're
going to know that I'm withChicago Title and I sell title
insurance.
I'd love to work with you butI'm not going to chase you down.
(17:10):
Anyone that I bring in they'renot going to hard sell you and
try to pitch you something.
I want Tony to leave that roomand say, hey, that was either
fun or worthwhile or educational.
And if Jared throws anotherclass or event, I would consider
I've always led with thatintention and I think it's
organically grown and builtwhere people know they can show
up, they can learn stuff.
(17:30):
Yes, I'd love to, of course,earn their business, but I'm
going to help them, whether ifit's me sharing or teaching
something or hosting an event.
That's always the objective.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
I'm curious on the events.
So a lot of our audience isproperty managers that manage
properties for people that areout of state and it's a mix.
You know, half the I won't sayhalf, but a mixture of the
clientele that they serve arelocal and some of them are from
(18:01):
out of state property ownersthat just needed a property
manager.
So I'm trying to envision howthey could apply this
no-transcript.
It's not necessarily aboutattending the party versus being
invited to the party.
Sometimes it's as exciting tobe invited as it is to attend
and you build that same momentumbecause if you didn't attend,
(18:23):
you don't know how many peopledid attend.
So if you throw your firstevent and three people show up,
but you marketed it and made itlook like it's a really special
event, everybody that couldn'tcome, that lived out of state or
just had other obligations,they don't know who came.
So you can still.
You can still share thatinformation, share the concepts
(18:46):
that went out.
You can do some post eventmarketing around that.
So I want to.
I want to go down two paths andyou you pick which one you want
to do first.
But the first one is how do wenormalize inviting 20 people and
three showing up or inviting120 showing up and feeling okay
with that.
And then the other one is isthere a way to apply this event
(19:10):
model to kind of either do ahybrid, where we have some
hosted locally, some hostedonline.
Are we repurposing where we'rerecording?
I just I wanted to see ifthere's a way to kind of connect
the dots for people that areinterested in doing this
attraction marketing, becomingan authority in the marketplace,
but haven't really figured outa path to take for that yet.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Yeah, it's so funny that you mentioned filming.
I used to do that.
I'd have like two people showup to one of my classes and I'd
like get the right angles andfilm a little video and make it
look like it was a big thing andblow it up.
I think a lot of us.
It comes back to that wholefake it till you make it thing
and it's like it's like puttingthe cart before the horse.
(19:54):
Right, I catch 22.
It's like you know you can doit.
You just need people to trustyou to do it and you just need
to make it look huge.
Then it becomes huge and whatyou visualize will expand.
So, classes, events, what doesit look like for me in this
space and how it can apply toyou all is I always go with the
mindset that even if one personshows up, I know it's going to
(20:15):
be worth my time to host a classor event because of exactly
what you said.
I am going to push this eventor class out to everyone in my
network, all of my prospects,everyone's going to see it and
I'm going to push it out on amultitude of different channels.
So first things first.
I'm a big believer of marketing.
Background is we all live andbreathe on different channels.
(20:36):
So what I mean by that is somepeople might actually I don't
know about you I personally lovedirect mail.
I like to receive the mailersand read them, just, I guess,
because of the real estate space.
But I know, like my wife, ifshe gets the mail that day,
everything's going to go in thetrash.
So if you're trying to reach meon something on the day when my
wife opens the mail, I'm notgoing to get that mail.
So how are you going to reachme?
We got to hit other channels.
We got to reach and tap intoemail or Facebook or Instagram
(21:01):
or different platforms, or evenin person, so that we can get
the word out on something.
So marketing is going to comeback to the success or the
failure of any event, but I knowthat even if nobody shows up to
it, I still marketed the heckout of it and it was another
touch point to stay in front ofmy clients as well as my
prospects and people that I wantto grow my business with.
So once that's done, boom.
(21:22):
Let's go into getting people tothen actually show up, because
step one is just getting peopleto sign up and RSVP.
Step two is actually gettingpeople to show up.
So one thing I'll do this isjust my style, I started doing
this about a year and a half agois if you RSVP.
Everything I do I do it througheventbritecom huge fan of
eventbrite but I will have, ofcourse, follow-up emails.
(21:48):
But I also, when someone RSVPs,I require them to fill in their
phone number, their cell phone,and I will text them.
It's an auto text system that Iuse.
It's called Reach.
If anyone wants to know, it'sfantastic, it's the Reach app.
It's $8 a month, but what itdoes is it allows you to send
individual, personalized textmessages to a mass group of
phone numbers instantly, and Iwill always do a Reach text
campaign and push that out.
(22:08):
Everyone has their phone on them, right?
They're going to see that.
That's, in my opinion, going tohelp improve the performance of
people showing up.
Or, if I have the time, I'llpick up the phone and call them.
Then, day of the event, we showup and do the event Again.
Like I said, even if just oneperson shows up, you don't know
who that person is.
You never know.
I've done some of my greatestclasses or some of my greatest
people that I've ever met havebeen at classes or events where
(22:30):
there's two of them, and I thinkthere's something to be said
between a class or an event thathas one to five people versus
100 people.
I think there's pros and consto each of those styles of
situations where you bringgroups together filming myself
(22:52):
speaking and teaching the class,and the reason why is I will
then take that footage, I willupload it into my social
platforms, such as YouTube.
And then, even if nothing comesfrom a classroom event, I'm
going to get a bunch of socialmedia content of me speaking and
have the AI create all that forme, and it's just a cherry on
top, in my opinion.
Okay, then class event's over,then we get a follow-up.
(23:14):
We get to go ahead and followup with each attendee, and the
way I do that is, if I'mteaching something and I want to
get to that one-on-one, likeI'm trying to provide value and
I want to help real estateprofessionals grow their
business, and I think you haveto deliver value, no matter what
, you have to just give it allaway, but you also, in addition
to that, you have to have enoughin addition to that class or
event to then have it as a valueoffer for someone to then say,
(23:38):
oh man, that was really good andhe can still help me with one,
two and three things.
I got to meet with himone-on-one now, so I give it all
away, give it all away, andthen what I do I started doing
this about three years ago andit's worked well is I've
literally, man, I've just gotlike a handout, like a one-page
handout for every class that Ido, and it's just got little
lead magnets on it.
It's got whatever.
(23:59):
If I'm teaching a class on AI,I'll hit them with throughout
the presentation, a few things.
Hey, if you want to learn howto do this with chat, gpt and
then this, I'll go deeper in it.
And basically, if you're takingone of my classes and you don't
check a box on this handout andfill in your name and email,
you're just missing out.
So I'm just dangling theselittle carrots and then people
fill out this handout sheet.
(24:19):
I collect them all and then atthe very bottom of the handout,
I just straight up ask hey, doyou want to meet with me
one-on-one, yes or no, tofurther advance your marketing?
And I'll get a ton of yeses andthat quickly allows me to
filter into the people that wantto spend time with me and
quickly figure out what's thatplan on getting to those
one-on-ones and helping thosepeople.
Okay, so that's how I flowthrough the events and then find
(24:44):
my quote, unquote leads andfollow up with every single
person.
And then, lastly, I also, inaddition to that, I ask everyone
to on that handout, the lastcheckbox is hey, do you want to
receive my weekly email whereI'm sharing real estate tools,
resources and marketing ideas,as well as invites to exclusive
classes and events, yes or no,and most people will click that.
(25:05):
So then I even know hey, maybeTony's not ready to meet me
one-on-one, but he had a greatclass and he wants to be on the
email list.
That's fine, we'll throw him onthe email list, we'll keep them
in the drip and maybe one dayhe'll come back around and
there'll be an opportunity downthe road.
Okay, so it's all like there'sso many different angles you can
tap into, in my opinion, withdoing these things, where it's
just slowly going to grow.
But the truth is it doesn'thappen overnight and it is
(25:28):
consistently doing it andgrowing it and improving it to
finally get, I guess, thatsnowball going.
You know.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
What get, I guess, that snowball going.
You know, what I'm hearing isthat you put a lot of time and
effort into the pre-planning ofthe event, the hosting of the
event, but the event in and ofitself is not the end goal.
The event is just to move themfrom the top of the funnel to
middle of the funnel, just towarm that lead up a little bit.
So it's really important notjust to say I hosted an event
and I'm just using silly numbershere but I hosted an event.
(25:59):
I invited 10 people.
Three people showed up and onesaid that they would follow up.
But I called them once, askedthem to return my call and they
ghosted me, which I don't knowif ghosting after one call is
really ghosting, but you know.
So they get depressed like, oh,this doesn't work.
But really that is just to warmthem up to move them to the
(26:24):
next step.
So it's really important tohave that follow up and and not
say the event is the event.
The event is just the startingline, so to speak.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
Right, that's right, yeah, I, I agree, go ahead.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
So I was just going to kind of dig in a little bit
more on your follow-up.
So if you have something youwant to kind of close out with
this, we can, and then I want tomove on to your follow-up with
it.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Yep, yeah, so I will reach out.
Most people are going to wantto be on that email campaign
drip for access to other thingsI always have more stuff of
value to share and give awayagain and now reach them on
different platforms.
But then, in addition to that,I'm also going to be retargeting
(27:05):
these people.
I'm going to be runningadvertisements.
I'm going to be running metaads, and meta owns Facebook and
Instagram and these ads, if youknow how to do it, they're
incredibly inexpensive to runand they're incredibly targeted,
where we can target phonenumbers and or email addresses
of individuals, find theirsocial media accounts and
specifically run ads to them onaverage costs, costing you maybe
you know, half a penny to servethem an ad.
(27:26):
It's very, very strategic.
So that's one thing.
And then also, as of beginningof this year, I've been playing
around a lot with Google ads andyou can actually do the same
thing with Google ads.
You can upload phone numbers,emails, target people.
So now I'm hitting these peopleagain, multi-channel, as many
locations as possible.
But follow-up phase we're goingto be following up, whether it's
(27:47):
a combination of a phone call,a text message, an email, even
social media man, it goes downin the DMs, you wouldn't believe
, I would say, for me,prospecting, I convert most of
my meetings with prospectsthrough Messenger Facebook
Messenger, instagram Messengerand it just seems to be a great
communication stream.
Now, I don't just go in for theattack if I don't know you.
(28:08):
Hey, let's go grab one-on-one,let's go grab coffee, lunch
drinks, whatever.
It's of course massaging thatand building a relationship,
which is what social media is.
Of course, massaging that andbuilding a relationship, which
is what social media is, butit's again leaning into
different channels to try to getto that one-on-one appointment
and earn someone's business.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
So let's talk about that follow-up.
I know you're doing some of thethings interactively reaching
out in the DMs, having thoseconversations, trying to keep
that warm, but you mentionedhaving somebody in a drip.
So what's your and I'm lookingmore for, like structure how
many times are you hittingsomebody until they quit?
Do you have just weeks andweeks worth of drips?
Are you hitting them once aweek, once a month, like?
(28:49):
In my opinion, if somebody hasexpressed interest in working
with you, then there's twochoices Either they tell you
drop dead, or they dropped dead,or they signed up with you.
So I think maybe there's twoways to get out and one way to
get in.
But, what's your philosophy intiming?
(29:09):
How frequent Is it more justpromoting other events?
Is it getting really deep andtelling a story arc with them,
Like what's it look like for you?
Speaker 1 (29:20):
It's hitting multiple channels at once.
As soon as someone says thatthey want to meet with me, they
fill out a form or something,right, or they're on that list
right, I'm probably going to I'mshameless man, I'm going to
Facebook friend them.
Right, I'm going to follow themon Instagram.
I'm going to start engagingwith their content.
Right, I'm going to startcommenting.
Right, I'm going to startfinding commonalities on where
(29:41):
do we share interests.
What does that look like?
And then, if they did juststraight up, say they want to
meet with me, I'm going to pickup the phone and call them.
Right, I'm going to take aphoto of that handout where they
circled the yes on it and textit to them and say, hey, you
still want to meet, right, like,just straight to the point.
That's the easy ones.
Quite frankly, the harder onesare the no's or the people that
don't circle it at all.
(30:02):
So we're going to do thatfollow-up phase.
And then, in terms of like,let's say specifically, the
email drip, the email, the way Ihave it structured.
Personally, I use MailChimp,I've used it for years, I love
it, and every email, the way Istructure my email campaigns, is
(30:22):
at the very top.
It's going to be something ofvalue, whether it's a real
estate source or, excuse me, areal estate tool, resource and
idea, some sort of marketingstrategy and it's going to be an
embedded video that they canclick on that drives them to my
website.
Below that is going to be alive link to all of my upcoming
classes and events that they canclick.
Below that is going to besomething else of value, or some
sort of recap video on an eventor something of that nature.
(30:45):
And, lastly, I put in somethingpersonal, so whether it's a
video of my family and Itraveling to whatever
Switzerland, or pictures orwhatever.
So that's the structure.
It's never too much stuff Now.
Starting out, when I was firstbuilding these, the goal was can
I just get one once a month?
Now, fast forward, I've beenable to create more and more and
more, and I've even hired outthat help to have others create
(31:07):
that information for me.
So now I'm at one per week.
So one email per weekindefinitely.
My email campaigns areevergreen.
I'm a big believer in evergreencontent, whether it's video
content or your email campaign,and the way mine are structured
is that if Tony signs up for myemail drip today, it's going to
be the same email that I createdyears ago.
The only thing, truthfully,it's going to change is the age
(31:29):
of my children.
That's one thing I've realized.
But all the other content inthere and structure of it it's
all valuable information thathasn't changed.
So I don't have to go back andreinvent the wheel.
I just have to move forward andmake sure that I continue to
add another email so that, aseach week goes by, the drip
continues.
So it's forever, it's nevergoing to end.
(31:49):
Outside of that, you'reprobably going to be seeing my
ads on Facebook or Instagram,possibly through different
Google display replacements,through YouTube, et cetera, and
then you're going to keepgetting invited to other classes
and events.
So we're trying to hit as manychannels as we can.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Are you hosting any of these events?
I know we do a lot of them live.
I've seen a lot of your livecourses and presentations.
Are you doing any of thesewhere you're inviting people to
just a big Zoom or somethinglike that, or do you see a
drop-off in attendance, adrop-off in response?
(32:24):
I'm just curious what you thinkabout having online events.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
Last day they won pandemic days.
I know that was big.
I will do them occasionally ifsomeone asks me to, but I've got
a pretty hard and fast rulewhere, for me personally, my
audience again, if I were toniche into it it's real estate
agents.
It's real estate agents thatare doing business, it's real
estate agents that have listings.
Those are the majority of myclients.
I need to be front of them, Ineed to be face-to-face with
(32:47):
them.
They're here in my market,they're here not too far away
from me, and my opinion is theyneed to show up if they want to
learn this stuff.
And, in my opinion, you're justgoing to build that connection
faster, that rapport faster.
When you're in the room withsomeone, you're face-to-face
with them.
They have to pay attention,because I've been there, I've
been on the Zoom and I'minterested and I'm listening,
but I'm also texting and I'm onmy email and I'm doing five
(33:09):
different things.
I'm not actually engaged,because the reason why I'm
dealing with these classes andevents and others as well, is
we're trying to get to thatone-on-one, we're trying to
build that relationship withthat person in that time that we
have so that we can, of course,take that to the next level and
then, of course, then take itto the business side Now, with
that said, though, for those ofthose listening, if you do have
clients that you need to attractin other markets and whatnot, I
(33:31):
understand that that's notpossible for you.
And Tony, I don't know if you'veread this, but I'm a big fan of
Russell Brunson and he's got agreat book.
It's called Expert Secrets andit's one of the best books I've
read on marketing and runningwebinars and funnels and doing
all that stuff Back when I waskind of messing around building
some funnels back in the day.
It's cool and I would highlyrecommend, if you want to do the
(33:52):
webinar funnel style approach,definitely check out that book.
Expert.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Secrets too.
It's a great recommendation.
I actually have it.
It's sitting on my bookshelfover here, nice.
I've listened to it twicebecause it's easier for me to
listen to it while I'm running,but there is something about
sitting down and looking at thehe's got some graphics in there
and things.
That is good to follow along.
So what I'm hearing about the?
You mentioned something that Ifocus on a lot with my coaching
(34:17):
clients, which is identifyingyour target client profile and
people call it different things,but that's what I call it which
is really knowing who you'retrying to attract and then
speaking the language that cutsthrough all the other marketing
noise and marketing fluff to saythis person you know, jared, is
speaking directly to me,helping me solve some of my
(34:40):
issues.
And I want to go back tosomething.
Probably six, seven years agowhen you had first kind of hit
the scene it was right after wehad our first meeting I was
doing a lot of that direct mail.
We were hitting a lot of directmail to out-of-state owners but
that owned investmentproperties in the state of
Colorado, specifically in themarket I wanted to serve in
(35:02):
downtown Denver and we werespeaking directly to their pain
points about what it was like tohave a property in downtown
Denver, because it's differentthan owning a property in the
suburbs.
And what the pain points weredirectly.
And I remember sitting down withyou and you helping me figure
out specifically, like how tocapture their email addresses,
(35:22):
how to actually get a Googlephoto Cause if we did do it out
in the suburbs, get a Googlephoto of their home, you know
that connected directly withthem, that cut through the
marketing noise.
So what I'm hearing you say,one of the takeaways from this
portion of our chat here isreally know your target client
profile and then speak directlyto them.
(35:43):
And it's okay if other peoplethat don't match that profile
don't identify with your content.
They don't.
It doesn't provide value.
They show up, they say I'm notinterested in meeting one-on-one
.
That's okay because it savedyou time.
You've filtered out the peopleyou don't want to work with and
drew the people you do want towork with closer to you by
(36:05):
providing that valuable contentthat speaks to them.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
Yeah, that's great, yeah, and I agree.
And then another point on thatis when you do this and very
much, it's again other booksthat this applies to it's the
go-giver concept, it's ninjaselling, it's the mindset of I'm
going to give all and of courseI'd love to get business out of
it, but I don't expect businessout of it and there's always
(36:28):
going to be people, like yousaid, who are going to take
everything and run with it, andthat's you just have to have.
I know it's a hard mindset tohave, but you just have to have
that mindset and accept thatthat's okay.
And look at the positive side,that you don't have to spend
your time with that personbecause they don't want to work
with you anyway and they justsaved you the time of letting
you know, which is fantastic,and you'll still continue to see
them at your classes and events.
(36:49):
And again, that's okay becausethey're bettering themselves and
you just have to really, quitefrankly, just have to truthfully
wish the best for all of them.
But on the farming thing, realquick.
That's another aspect of themarketing standpoint.
There are a ton of great,successful real estate agents
and teams that I work with whodominate their neighborhoods and
send mailers and have done itforever who dominate their
neighborhoods and send mailersand have done it forever.
(37:11):
And yeah, us as a title company,a Chicago title, we invest in a
ton of tools and resources, andone of them it's probably our
most popular resources it's asystem where you can pull data
on just about any type ofproperty within the United
States of America Okay, soanywhere and it's very specific
data that you can pull, whether,of course, it's your
owner-occupied,non-owner-occupied, out of state
(37:31):
.
But you can drill down into theownership entity.
You can drill down into howmuch equity the person has in
the home, their mortgage rate,their loan type, their
likelihood to sell in the next12 months, and then you can also
get their phone and email.
So I agree with you, you got toknow who that avatar is and
then use a system like ours orwhatever, reach out to your
(37:51):
local title company to help youto pull this data.
Because, at the end of the day Ialways say this when I teach my
direct mail, my farming classis I just think it's gambling.
We're mailing and we're sendingdirect mail.
We're just gambling, that's allwe're doing, because I know the
real estate person who did itfor a month and got a deal out
of it.
And I know the guy down thestreet who did it for three
(38:12):
years and did everythingperfectly and never got anything
out of it.
But I do believe that you canimprove your odds when you're
sending direct mail, when you'releveraging two things, and the
first thing is data and havingan understanding of who you're
targeting, and then number twois messaging.
What are you putting on thatdirect mail piece?
What are you sending?
What's your call to action?
Is there even a QR code onthere?
Where are you sending them?
(38:32):
What does that follow-up looklike if they do click on
anything, and can you track anyof that?
So I think all of that canimprove your odds as long as,
like you said, you have aspecific focus on who you're
going after.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
Okay, I want to touch on the direct marketing thing
one more time and then I want tomove over into the online ads.
But we sent out directmarketing for years and years
and wrong.
This is how we did it.
We were less concerned aboutthe quality of the postcard that
went out or we were moreconcerned with the content.
(39:05):
You mentioned the messaging andthen the frequency.
You know, I remember that peoplecame into my market to try to
take over the market that I wasfarming multiple times and
they'd send out something superslick, glossy, basically either
a full eight and a half by 11 ora half cut half sheet postcard.
(39:25):
And I'm sending out these littlequarter cut for four to eight
and a half by 11 size.
But we were consistent.
We sent it out every 21 days.
They got something from me andthe reason I did it 21 days was
I wanted it to hit at differenttimes of the month because our
property managers if, if I'vegot a, if I'm a landlord, my
(39:45):
tenant either paid rent on thefirst or they didn't.
So if they paid rent on thefirst, they don't need me, but
if they didn't, you know itmight be the first I hit them,
then I hit them on the first,and then you know I'm hitting
them a little bit later thatnext month, and so it was just
getting that cycle.
Whether 21 days was justsomething that I decided was the
right number for me or not, itwas more about that follow-up
(40:07):
and consistency.
You can't do any of this stuffonce and expect that you're
going to get something from it.
Agreed, yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (40:16):
I'm super interested in the retargeting ads and if we
can talk a little bit aboutwhat that is, just so everybody
has that same foundation.
And then I know some peoplethat have tried this and it's a
little bit like there's a lot ofsnake oil salesmen out there
that will tell you they candeliver, and so there's a lot of
(40:40):
great people out there that canactually deliver.
So how do you go about?
Do you do it yourself?
Do you learn how to?
Is it simple to do and trackthese things?
Like how would somebody getstarted?
Because there is a lot ofinterest in our market for being
able to do these online adsTargeted custom audience.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
Meta ads and or Google ads are, in my opinion,
the cheapest form of marketingout there, period.
I mean, they're so cheap andthey're so darn targeted.
The question is, you got to askyourself do I want to hire a
company to do this or do I wantto do it myself?
And unfortunately, neitheroption is easy because you don't
really know if you can reallytrust that company.
And exactly what you said, tonyI've heard over and over again
(41:22):
of individuals dropping $1,000,$2,000, $3,000, $4,000, $5,000,
$6,000, $7,000 and getting allthese false promises from this
marketing company.
And unfortunately it's trickybecause you just don't know,
unless you know someone whorefers them to you.
So if you do go that route of amarketing company where you're
looking for lead generationspecifically, I would ask more
questions when it comes to themsaying, hey, they're going to
(41:43):
deliver leads, and I would askwhat's their definition of a
lead?
Because I'll tell you what.
I know how to generate cheapbuyer leads all day long for
realtors they're three bucks alead on Facebook, a name, phone
number and email.
But it doesn't mean they wantto talk to you.
It doesn't mean they're readyto buy or sell anytime soon.
So I think you need to be veryclear on what the definition of
a lead is.
How far along in the process isthis person ready to work with
(42:06):
you?
That's very, very important andideally if you could, if
there's a marketing company youcould work with that.
Actually, you pay based off ofperformance, whether it's phone
call or one-on-one meeting.
I would rather pay all day longfor that versus just random
leads.
Personally, I would pay morefor that.
Now, if you want to do ityourself, I'm just going to be
honest with you.
It's not easy.
I'm not just saying that itreally is.
(42:32):
It's a pain.
When it comes to running andsetting up ads through meta, the
hardest part is setting it up.
Once you have it set up, though, it's pretty darn painless and
much more easy to continue torun these advertisements.
But the struggle is setting upwhat's called the meta business
suite, so it's not really shownor really offered easily to
anyone who has a Facebook orInstagram account.
You kind of have to know aboutit and how to get to it, and of
course, they make that tricky.
But basically throughFacebookcom, which is owned by
(42:54):
Meta, you can actually clickinto.
There's a menu button and youcan click on your ads manager or
even your Meta Business Suiteoption, and when you go back
there, what this is isessentially a layout of
different things.
First of all, depending on whatscreen you're looking at, you
can see analytics on, maybe,your post that are posted to
your Facebook or Instagramaccount.
But, more specifically, whenyou tap into what's called the
(43:16):
ads manager, where we set up andrun these ads, you can now do
some really, really cool things,and examples of cool things you
can do with these types of adsthrough Meta is you can target
phone numbers and emails.
So take that farm list thatyou're mailing to and extract
the phone numbers and the emailaddresses and upload those into
Meta, and Meta is going to goout and try to find these people
(43:36):
, because when Tony creates aFacebook and or an Instagram
account, he has to provide aphone and email, and all we're
doing is reverse engineering thecontact information that we
have and then matching it up toTony, and now we can serve Tony
a specific ad just to him, andthat's where it gets very, very
targeted and very, veryinexpensive.
Okay, other things we can do wecan retarget people that are
(43:58):
engaging or new followers to ourInstagram account.
We can retarget people who likeor follow our Facebook business
page.
There's things you can do moreadvanced.
You can set up pixels on yourwebsite and do pixel retargeting
.
There's tons of stuff.
It goes deep, but for theperson that wants to do this, I,
without a doubt, believe thatyou should do this.
I truly believe if you are in asales position where you rely
(44:19):
on repeater referral business oryou own a business where you
rely on repeater referralbusiness, you should run meta
ads because they're targeted andthey're cheap.
Okay, so once you can set upthe meta business suite, where
you basically connect yourFacebook page, your Instagram
account, your ads account andthat's done, you can then start
to run these apps.
All right, and one thing that Ithink a lot of us get caught up
(44:40):
when we throw around the wordads and advertising is there's
two pathways when it comes torunning advertisements.
Path A, which I think most ofus think of, is let's run ads
and let's generate leads, which,yes, is very valuable if you do
it properly.
But I truly believe, before youeven try to do that, or if you
are doing that, you need to alsobe working through the other
(45:02):
path, which is running ads forbrand awareness, because these
ads, they're so cheap to do andyou want to retarget and stay in
front of all of your customersand people for that repeat
referral opportunity.
For those of you, if you'relistening to this and you just
hate social media and you'relike I don't want to be on
social media, I hate it, that'scool too, but you still have to
(45:23):
realize that your potentialaudience, your potential avatar,
is most likely on Facebook andor Instagram and from a business
standpoint, you should stilltap into this ad standpoint.
What's cool is you can takecontent and maybe you don't want
to post or whatever, but if youcan just take a piece of
content, you can set thatcontent up as an advertisement
(45:44):
for 30, 60, 90 plus days andhave it run and keep you in
front of people.
Now, one other thing to pointout here ads versus organic
posts.
For those of you that areposting content on, say,
facebook, instagram, whatever,that's great, kudos to you.
But the struggle that we're allagainst.
The problem is with all of thisis the algorithm, right?
(46:05):
I don't know about you, tony,but I've been there where I've
taken time and energy or maybeI've spent money and I've hired
someone to create this video orthis piece of content for me and
then I post it and put it outthere, thinking it's just going
to go viral.
It gets the kind of likes,comments, shares, then just kind
of dies out 48 hours later.
What's great is, if you believein that piece of content or
(46:27):
maybe you do have a piece ofcontent that hits let's take
that piece of content and put alittle bit of money behind it
and create that rocket fueleffect to put in front of
everyone.
Because, truthfully, when youpost organic content on your
social platforms, it's onlygoing to reach a small
percentage of your audience andyou're missing everyone.
So we need to run these ads tobreak through that barrier.
Tom Ferry, he calls it socialpostage.
(46:48):
You're just spending a littlebit of money to take your ad and
put in front of everyone.
Okay, so start there.
Do the targeted ads to youraudience.
Go to the back end of the metabusiness suite.
If you don't know how to dothis, google it.
That's how I learned you justtype in YouTube video how to set
up the Meta business suite andwalk through it step-by-step and
then have it done.
(47:09):
Step two is how to set upcustom audiences for Meta ads.
Just Google that and Iguarantee you there's videos out
there on how to do it and I'mtelling you it's worth every
penny because when you set upand run this from a cost
standpoint typically everydollar that you spend on an
advertisement on Meta, if you'resetting this up for awareness
to reach the masses, on averageyou can dial in where your ads
(47:32):
are.
You're spending half a penny tomaybe a penny to show the exact
person you want, your specificadvertisement, and it's very
effective.
Speaker 2 (47:41):
I love that.
I would love to dig in thatdeeper and, for those of you
that are in the Denver orColorado marketplace, I would
encourage you to join one ofJared's classes, because I'm
sure that's one of the thingsthat he talks about.
Before we wrap up, I feel likewe kind of glossed over
something that you threw outthere.
There's two things I want tocombine.
(48:02):
First one is Chicago Title is anational company, so you've got
locations throughout the UnitedStates.
The second thing is you haveaccess to data through this tool
that you mentioned for propertyowners across the United States
.
So if somebody wanted to findsomebody to partner with to have
(48:22):
access to this data, obviouslyin Colorado they're going to
reach out to you.
But how would we go aboutgetting people access to this,
this tool that you guys have toget that data?
Because combining that miningdata, mining that data and then
combining that with theseFacebook ads, pulling that
(48:42):
information and figuring out howto combine that, I think is
just a an extremely powerfultool that I think most of the
people in our industry aren'teven aware of the ability to
pull these things together andcreate a lot of awareness and
opportunity.
Speaker 1 (48:57):
Yeah, if you're not in the Colorado market and
you're looking to pull this typeof data, I would recommend just
doing a quick search for localtitle companies in the area and
reaching out to some of them.
High likelihood that titlecompanies are going to have this
data.
I feel like it's kind of been athing for us for many, many
years having access to thisinformation Chicago title, f&f
(49:20):
Brands, fidelity, nationalFinancial, which owns Chicago
title, heritage title, fidelitytitle the list goes on.
There's over 1,200 officesacross the United States.
Reach out to one of the titlebrands in your market and see if
you can get set up and accessto this data, because it's very
valuable, like you said, whenyou know how to use it.
Speaker 2 (49:41):
Perfect, jared, I'm going to, if you'd like, people
who are real estate agents inthe Colorado market.
If they're looking, I'd love toprovide your links in the show
notes.
But if there's anything elseyou want to share, I'll kind of
give you the last word as wewrap up here.
I appreciate it.
I mean, we just scratched thesurface on the stuff that you
(50:03):
and I that I know, that you know, and I wish we did have, you
know, a four hour or a half aday class where we could put
people in front of you, becauseeven at that is barely diving
below the surface and you haveso much to offer.
If somebody wants to partnerwith you here in Colorado for
their title needs, how wouldthey get ahold of you?
Speaker 1 (50:23):
Sure, Probably most memorable option just Google
search Mile High Title Guy,wwwmilehightitleguycom, or find
me on Instagram milehightitleguyJared Larkin, Chicago Title.
If you do have a transactionwhether it's if you're a
mortgage professional, listening, or a real estate professional
(50:43):
and there's an opportunity towork with a title company
Chicago Title we'd love to putour hat in the ring there and
support you.
So please reach out to mewhether you need a title quote
or an owner encumbrance reportor really anything.
I'd love to support you andTony, thank you so much for
having me on today.
Really appreciate it Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (50:59):
Great seeing you and look forward to seeing you again
real soon.
All right, take care.
Thanks for tuning in to theProperty Management Success
Podcast.
We'll be back with anothervalue-packed episode to help you
level up your propertymanagement game.
If you've got somethingvaluable out of today's episode,
please share it with a friendor colleague, and don't forget
to subscribe and leave a reviewso you never miss out on future
(51:21):
insights and strategies andtactics.
Until next time, here's to yoursuccess.
It's a lot of relationships, whether it's with
people who send you multipledeals a month or one deal a year
and everything in between.
So it's constantly buildingyour network, but also having
purpose, like you said.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Welcome to the Property Management Success
Podcast, where we interviewleaders in the industry to
uncover the secrets toprofitability, efficiency and
achieving true freedom.
Whether it's your time, moneyor lifestyle, I'm your host,
Tony Klein, and I'm here to helpyou build a wildly successful
property management business.
Let's get to it.
Welcome back to another episodeof the Property Management
(00:33):
Success Podcast.
Today, I am really excited tobe joined by Jared Larkin here
from Denver, the Mile High City.
Jared, welcome, hey, Tony,Thanks for having me.
Yeah, absolutely.
I've been following yourjourney for many years and I
want to share with our audiencea little bit about who you are
(00:53):
and what you're all about.
But I want to also spin notjust what you're doing but how
you came to be sort of this iconin the marketplace.
So I know they refer to you asthe Mile High Title Guy from
Chicago Title and we'll get intoa little bit of how that came
about, but just kind of sharewith folks your current role in
(01:17):
what you're doing and whatcompany you're with.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Sure, yeah, Thanks again for having me on.
Yeah, oh, my goodness.
So it's cool, right.
This is kind of coming fullcircle because back in what?
2017, I found my way stumblinginto the world of title
insurance sales, that Chicagotitle.
There is another salesprofessional who was training me
(01:43):
at the time and I remember hewas trying to advise me on what
to do, how to meet people inreal estate, how to get title
orders.
Your name actually popped upand I remember calling on you
within the first couple monthsand trying to meet up with you,
having no idea what I was doingwhatsoever, but that was the
objective.
So it's funny to come fullcircle here and now fast forward
(02:07):
almost eight years.
Yeah, I'm a sales rep forChicago Title, which is we're
all for Colorado, but we're alsonational with over 1200 offices
.
Quite frankly, the truth is, Ialways say this when it comes to
the world of title insurance ifsomeone needs a title company
for a real estate transaction,if they're buying a home,
(02:29):
selling a home, investingthere's a financial aspect on
the lending side as well fortitle insurance but they're
going to choose a company andthe world of title insurance.
We're very regulated when itcomes to pricing and we have to
provide great service.
And unfortunately I'll say this, but I think it's true for most
people they see it as acommoditized industry and the
truth is, if Tony is happy atXYZ Title Company, why should he
(02:52):
leave?
He's happy, he's got a goodcloser who's closing his
transactions and really my mainrole is to come along, I guess,
and kind of disrupt thoserelationships, and I have to do
that by providing some sort ofvalue.
So I stumbled into this world oftitle insurance, having no idea
how it all worked.
Just kind of, you know, like weall do in the world of, I guess
(03:14):
, sales and figuring outbusinesses, we just kind of fail
forward and try things.
My background is in marketing.
I used to run a boutiquemarketing company.
We did video production, socialmedia stuff like that, and
that's the world that I'vealways loved living and
breathing in and I apply mybackground and ever-changing
(03:34):
knowledge in the marketing spaceto help real estate
professionals grow theirbusiness.
The goal is to help them withtheir business.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
And, yeah, stop there , let's not jump too far ahead
because I want to tie thistogether.
Got questions People that arelistening to a property
management podcast.
They're thinking, okay, whatdoes title insurance have to do
with property management?
Because we're not going throughthose transactions.
But the reason I really wantedto connect with you and bring
you back on.
I actually remember that.
I think I even came to theoffice at one point after you
(03:59):
connected.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
You're really nice.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
You're really kind.
You hooked me and we weretalking about all of these
different marketing ways that wecould stand out in the
marketplace, but I want to tiethis back.
So you mentioned that titleinsurance is viewed as almost a
commoditized service, and Ithink in the property management
space, a lot of the consumerskind of see property managers in
(04:24):
that same light.
Now, there's a thousanddifferent ways to run a property
management business, but untilyou have created some unique
characteristics about yourcompany, some unique problem
that you solve, some uniquemessaging that you send out, we
are all the same to them.
And if we're all the same,they're going to determine who
(04:45):
they use based on price.
How do I get the most servicefor the lowest price as opposed
to I'm just going to look forsomebody that actually is the
right fit for me, and so I thinkthere's some similarities
between your business and yourindustry and the property
management space.
Now, luckily, we aren'tregulated by price.
(05:08):
We can charge whatever we want,and so there's a lot of
different ways to what I saystack the nickels to make a
dollar in the propertymanagement space, but it's very
similar.
Let's talk about that journeyand how you applied your
background, your marketingexpertise, because I think it's
super fascinating how I I wasreally dialed in with my title
(05:34):
company when, when you and Iconnected and I, there was no
reason for me to switch.
I mean, it's kind of one ofthose things right, it's just,
it's paperwork, right For us asagents, and so everything's
going smooth.
Why screw that up?
Why switch?
And I think it's similar topeople who either have a current
(05:55):
property manager or they'relooking for one, like what makes
us stand out in the marketplace.
So take us on that journey ofwhere this kind of clicked for
you on how to apply some of yourbackground and your skills into
turning heads and gettingpeople to pay attention.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Yeah.
So getting into the world oftitle insurance sales and then,
of course, versus propertymanagement, I agree with you, we
can be seen somewhatcommoditized.
So for me personally, when Ijumped into title insurance, I
knew nobody I'm not fromColorado, I'm a transplant.
The title insurance industry Iknew nobody.
I'm not from Colorado, I'm atransplant.
The title insurance industryalso is a very, very high volume
business.
I always share this example.
(06:32):
For you as a salesperson, toreally be kind of top of your
game, successful in it, I mean,you need to be personally
closing over 100 transactions amonth.
I mean it's very, very highvolume.
So, for me, getting into thisbusiness and bright-eyed,
bushy-tailed, like let's go,having no idea what this path
was, it's a lot of relationships, whether it's with people who
send you multiple deals a monthor one deal a year and
(06:54):
everything in between.
So it's constantly buildingyour network, but also having
purpose, like you said, and forme, it was the marketing thing.
So, starting out, the corefocus that I had was hey, I'm
going to help people in the realestate space, specifically real
estate agents, mortgage lenderswith their marketing.
When it comes to video, this was2017.
Video was around, people weredoing it, but not nearly as
(07:16):
prevalent as it is now here in2025.
It was such a leg up, in myopinion, to be able to leverage
video for your business in termsof just an exposure standpoint,
a marketing standpoint, so manythings.
So I started teaching videoclasses.
Guess what?
Nobody showed up to them.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Nobody wants to be on video, right?
Speaker 1 (07:32):
No, I realize people that want to be on video To
answer your question on what wasthat process.
It's a never evolving process.
I would just throw things atthe wall and saw what stick.
I tried things and I was justlike you know what.
I had a very simple mindset.
It was either I'm going to makeit in this business and just
(07:53):
try things and I might embarrassmyself along the way, or I'm
just going to get fired.
So it's like it's like worstcase scenario.
You know I'll get fired andI'll just go start a marketing
company.
So, anyway, just kept dialingthrough that and trying the
video, workshops and whatnot.
And that led into other things,though.
I started collaborating indifferent mastermind groups with
(08:13):
other people in the marketingspace.
Specifically, there was one guya huge shout out to Cameron.
He was doing Facebook ads forreal estate.
Before it was even cool, and Ijust started learning from these
different individuals that weresharing their knowledge and
teaching classes.
I would have them come speakand stuff, and then I realized
there was so much more.
So what started as video turnedinto yeah, I'll still help you
(08:34):
with your video and that classis getting dialed in and that
education, but then let's helpyou with your Facebook ads or
your social media, and reallywhat happened was you just have
to stumble forward because youdon't know what people want
until you try things and theyask you questions.
Okay, and I have a rule If Iget asked the same question
three times, I write it down.
(08:55):
I have this ever endless Googledocument of just ideas that I
need to create content on,because I know that if I'm
getting asked the same questionsrepeatedly, other people want
to know it, and of course, thisties back into my video.
Big belief into it right Is, aswe grow our businesses, we want
to scale.
The only thing that is mostvaluable to us is our time, and
(09:17):
how can we get our time back?
So I'm constantly putting outvideos on most frequently asked
questions that I can share andput out to the world to
essentially get my time back butalso be a resource for people.
So fast forward though, man.
It was a grind.
I mean I'm not going to lie,tony.
I almost quit like two-ishyears in.
I was just kind of waiting.
I mean I was doing all theright things Again, like I said,
(09:40):
high volume business and prettymuch all commission.
So I mean, if you're notbringing in deals, you're not
making money.
And I just remember one night Iwas with my wife in bed and she
just looks at me.
She's like how long are yougoing to do this thing for?
You're like you're gone fromlike 8am to 8pm.
You don't make any money.
What's next, really?
(10:00):
And I kind of died out for alittle bit in terms of like
maybe I'll just let them fire meand see where it goes.
But then things started to pickup.
All those things that I did forthe past two years finally
started to snowball and itstarted to get easier, I think,
just like any business thatyou're going to start and slowly
grew, grew, grew, grew, grew.
But without a doubt, I just hadto try a ton of things, and
(10:22):
that'd be my advice to anyone isjust take a shot, because you
don't know what's going tohappen.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
I think it's interesting because you were
trying things that didn'tnecessarily lead you couldn't
draw a straight line from theactivity you were doing to
closing a deal and having moneyput in your pocket.
But yet you saw the biggerpicture and at the time you were
trying that I've got to thinkthat there's like you mentioned.
You thought, well, I'm eithergoing to keep doing this until I
(10:51):
get fired or it works, and thenthat sort of petered out a
little bit and then it became,well, it's not working, maybe
they'll fire me, but you justkept doing it and you just kept
doing it.
What was that like in your mindwhere you're putting out all of
this effort?
You're going against the grain,because there was nobody else
in this marketplace doinganything close to this when you
(11:11):
started doing it and, frankly,there's nobody that's even close
to touching what you do now inthis space.
But what was it like?
What were you telling yourselfto be able to keep going through
that when everybody else is?
Everybody else is going leftand you're going right.
How did you keep going throughthat?
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Yeah, when I got into title insurance sales and I
would call on agents or reachout to them, it was exactly what
you said, tony.
They're already happy wherethey were at.
They didn't need me.
Why would they need me?
Because I don't know.
Back in 2017, the commonconception of a title insurance
salesperson was, quite frankly,a good-looking woman that took
(11:50):
you out for drinks and whatevergolf game whatever and I love
doing all that stuff too butthey weren't trying to help you
with your business, and that waswhere I saw the missing piece.
I was just like man, this hasgot to work.
It just makes sense If I canlegitimately help these real
estate people out with growingtheir business and we can form a
partnership.
It can be a mutual benefit.
And I agree with you, it's hardconnecting the dots from the
(12:12):
marketing standpoint to title,and I think one important lesson
that I learned a couple ofyears in was you have to ask for
the business.
I think any business you're in,I think if you deliver value
and you truly are helpingsomeone, I think it's okay to
ask for the business, right.
So that was one huge learninglesson for me, because sometimes
(12:33):
I would help people and it wasalmost like I was this marketing
guy that just I guess theythought I got paid somehow but I
didn't and that was honestly myfault, so I had to connect it
back to title insurance sales.
So I would say I'm a marketingconsultant, but I sell title
insurance and we're going totake care of you on the title
insurance side, no matter what.
We have a great team, we'regoing to perform, we're going to
(12:54):
do a great job and, in additionto that, I get to help you with
your business, whatever thatmay be, whether it's Facebook
ads, google ads, video, socialmedia, farming, right A category
happy to help.
It was tough.
It was tough, but it wasperfect time in my life.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
I was what?
26 years old and you knowmaking it work and just grinded
through it.
Now I see and I connect, I seeyour stuff all over social media
, all the different classesyou're doing, all of the
different events that you'rehosting, and it's hard to
imagine you back in the daybefore all of this took place,
picking up the phone and makingcold calls and all of that.
There's two different ways, Ithink, to get business.
One is to go out and huntpeople down and the other way is
(13:41):
to be such a unique movement inthe marketplace.
It draws people to you.
And so tell me a little bitabout the evolution of the
classes, the events that you'redoing, and you know kind of like
what it was like in thebeginning.
And then what's your normal day?
And I know we just kind of camethrough the, you know, december
(14:01):
, january months, and so maybeit's a little bit different, but
on an average month, what doesyour month look like in this
attraction marketing that you'redoing?
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Yeah, starting out in title insurance, I tried
everything Cold called.
I did Popeyes, oh my goodness.
I used to go to Costco andcreate baskets and I printed out
stickers with my name on them.
It's like call me, oh mygoodness, I would show up to
these real estate offices, right, because there was this
successful sales rep.
She's like this is how I builtmy business.
(14:33):
So I said, okay, I'll try this.
And it didn't work for me.
I felt like I was interruptingpeople while they were trying to
work, or there was just nobodyin the office, because real
estate people are out and aboutdoing their jobs as well.
So, whether it was cold callingor pop buys or random networking
events, what I realized fromdoing a networking event every
(14:54):
single day I mean, I was in allof them trying stuff was they
were good, but they didn'talways curate and bring in the
people.
That necessarily fit my filterin terms of who I could help and
it comes to the title space,but in addition to their
marketing and all that.
So I realized a couple of yearsin hey, I want to do my own
events, I want to do my owngroup and move forward in that
(15:17):
direction.
So I started leaning much moreheavily into.
I'm going to do classes and Iwant to do attraction versus
chase model.
Right, I want to attract versuschase.
I created this group.
We were around for a few yearsuntil, honestly, it just became
a bunch of work.
And then COVID hit.
But we used to throw these funevents where it was very
(15:37):
expensive to attend.
We had live music.
We raised a bunch of money forlocal charities.
At every event.
It was just a good group ofpeople that would attend and
this thing grew organically,which was fun.
So again, whether it was tryingcreating my own group of
individuals that wanted to showup and learn and have fun and
network and all that, or it wasthe classes.
Now the classes.
(15:57):
When I first started out, like Isaid, nobody showed up to these
things Maybe one person and Ijust was like I'm going to keep
trying this thing becauseclearly I'm not marketing these
right or whatever.
And what's fun about my rolebeing in a sales space?
And, yes, I'm selling titleinsurance, but I'm still in
sales, I still am running my ownbusiness and I still have to
perform marketing duties and Igot to learn how to do all this
on my side.
So that way, when I sit downwith someone else, I know
(16:19):
exactly what I'm talking aboutand I've already kind of failed
at what didn't work and Ifigured out what does work.
I figured out what I needed todo to get my events out to the
world and really specificallythe real estate space, and it
was just honestly repetition andtrying things and doing stuff
and just continuing to marketpeople and slowly growing my
(16:39):
brand.
And one theme that I've alwayshad since day one with anything
that I do is that if you come toone of my classes or events
that I host and now I'm hostingabout oh my goodness, you're
going to know that I'm withChicago Title and I sell title
insurance.
I'd love to work with you butI'm not going to chase you down.
(17:10):
Anyone that I bring in they'renot going to hard sell you and
try to pitch you something.
I want Tony to leave that roomand say, hey, that was either
fun or worthwhile or educational.
And if Jared throws anotherclass or event, I would consider
I've always led with thatintention and I think it's
organically grown and builtwhere people know they can show
up, they can learn stuff.
(17:30):
Yes, I'd love to, of course,earn their business, but I'm
going to help them, whether ifit's me sharing or teaching
something or hosting an event.
That's always the objective.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
I'm curious on the events.
So a lot of our audience isproperty managers that manage
properties for people that areout of state and it's a mix.
You know, half the I won't sayhalf, but a mixture of the
clientele that they serve arelocal and some of them are from
(18:01):
out of state property ownersthat just needed a property
manager.
So I'm trying to envision howthey could apply this
no-transcript.
It's not necessarily aboutattending the party versus being
invited to the party.
Sometimes it's as exciting tobe invited as it is to attend
and you build that same momentumbecause if you didn't attend,
(18:23):
you don't know how many peopledid attend.
So if you throw your firstevent and three people show up,
but you marketed it and made itlook like it's a really special
event, everybody that couldn'tcome, that lived out of state or
just had other obligations,they don't know who came.
So you can still.
You can still share thatinformation, share the concepts
(18:46):
that went out.
You can do some post eventmarketing around that.
So I want to.
I want to go down two paths andyou you pick which one you want
to do first.
But the first one is how do wenormalize inviting 20 people and
three showing up or inviting120 showing up and feeling okay
with that.
And then the other one is isthere a way to apply this event
(19:10):
model to kind of either do ahybrid, where we have some
hosted locally, some hostedonline.
Are we repurposing where we'rerecording?
I just I wanted to see ifthere's a way to kind of connect
the dots for people that areinterested in doing this
attraction marketing, becomingan authority in the marketplace,
but haven't really figured outa path to take for that yet.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Yeah, it's so funny that you mentioned filming.
I used to do that.
I'd have like two people showup to one of my classes and I'd
like get the right angles andfilm a little video and make it
look like it was a big thing andblow it up.
I think a lot of us.
It comes back to that wholefake it till you make it thing
and it's like it's like puttingthe cart before the horse.
(19:54):
Right, I catch 22.
It's like you know you can doit.
You just need people to trustyou to do it and you just need
to make it look huge.
Then it becomes huge and whatyou visualize will expand.
So, classes, events, what doesit look like for me in this
space and how it can apply toyou all is I always go with the
mindset that even if one personshows up, I know it's going to
(20:15):
be worth my time to host a classor event because of exactly
what you said.
I am going to push this eventor class out to everyone in my
network, all of my prospects,everyone's going to see it and
I'm going to push it out on amultitude of different channels.
So first things first.
I'm a big believer of marketing.
Background is we all live andbreathe on different channels.
(20:36):
So what I mean by that is somepeople might actually I don't
know about you I personally lovedirect mail.
I like to receive the mailersand read them, just, I guess,
because of the real estate space.
But I know, like my wife, ifshe gets the mail that day,
everything's going to go in thetrash.
So if you're trying to reach meon something on the day when my
wife opens the mail, I'm notgoing to get that mail.
So how are you going to reachme?
We got to hit other channels.
We got to reach and tap intoemail or Facebook or Instagram
(21:01):
or different platforms, or evenin person, so that we can get
the word out on something.
So marketing is going to comeback to the success or the
failure of any event, but I knowthat even if nobody shows up to
it, I still marketed the heckout of it and it was another
touch point to stay in front ofmy clients as well as my
prospects and people that I wantto grow my business with.
So once that's done, boom.
(21:22):
Let's go into getting people tothen actually show up, because
step one is just getting peopleto sign up and RSVP.
Step two is actually gettingpeople to show up.
So one thing I'll do this isjust my style, I started doing
this about a year and a half agois if you RSVP.
Everything I do I do it througheventbritecom huge fan of
eventbrite but I will have, ofcourse, follow-up emails.
(21:48):
But I also, when someone RSVPs,I require them to fill in their
phone number, their cell phone,and I will text them.
It's an auto text system that Iuse.
It's called Reach.
If anyone wants to know, it'sfantastic, it's the Reach app.
It's $8 a month, but what itdoes is it allows you to send
individual, personalized textmessages to a mass group of
phone numbers instantly, and Iwill always do a Reach text
campaign and push that out.
(22:08):
Everyone has their phone on them, right?
They're going to see that.
That's, in my opinion, going tohelp improve the performance of
people showing up.
Or, if I have the time, I'llpick up the phone and call them.
Then, day of the event, we showup and do the event Again.
Like I said, even if just oneperson shows up, you don't know
who that person is.
You never know.
I've done some of my greatestclasses or some of my greatest
people that I've ever met havebeen at classes or events where
(22:30):
there's two of them, and I thinkthere's something to be said
between a class or an event thathas one to five people versus
100 people.
I think there's pros and consto each of those styles of
situations where you bringgroups together filming myself
(22:52):
speaking and teaching the class,and the reason why is I will
then take that footage, I willupload it into my social
platforms, such as YouTube.
And then, even if nothing comesfrom a classroom event, I'm
going to get a bunch of socialmedia content of me speaking and
have the AI create all that forme, and it's just a cherry on
top, in my opinion.
Okay, then class event's over,then we get a follow-up.
(23:14):
We get to go ahead and followup with each attendee, and the
way I do that is, if I'mteaching something and I want to
get to that one-on-one, likeI'm trying to provide value and
I want to help real estateprofessionals grow their
business, and I think you haveto deliver value, no matter what
, you have to just give it allaway, but you also, in addition
to that, you have to have enoughin addition to that class or
event to then have it as a valueoffer for someone to then say,
(23:38):
oh man, that was really good andhe can still help me with one,
two and three things.
I got to meet with himone-on-one now, so I give it all
away, give it all away, andthen what I do I started doing
this about three years ago andit's worked well is I've
literally, man, I've just gotlike a handout, like a one-page
handout for every class that Ido, and it's just got little
lead magnets on it.
It's got whatever.
(23:59):
If I'm teaching a class on AI,I'll hit them with throughout
the presentation, a few things.
Hey, if you want to learn howto do this with chat, gpt and
then this, I'll go deeper in it.
And basically, if you're takingone of my classes and you don't
check a box on this handout andfill in your name and email,
you're just missing out.
So I'm just dangling theselittle carrots and then people
fill out this handout sheet.
(24:19):
I collect them all and then atthe very bottom of the handout,
I just straight up ask hey, doyou want to meet with me
one-on-one, yes or no, tofurther advance your marketing?
And I'll get a ton of yeses andthat quickly allows me to
filter into the people that wantto spend time with me and
quickly figure out what's thatplan on getting to those
one-on-ones and helping thosepeople.
Okay, so that's how I flowthrough the events and then find
(24:44):
my quote, unquote leads andfollow up with every single
person.
And then, lastly, I also, inaddition to that, I ask everyone
to on that handout, the lastcheckbox is hey, do you want to
receive my weekly email whereI'm sharing real estate tools,
resources and marketing ideas,as well as invites to exclusive
classes and events, yes or no,and most people will click that.
(25:05):
So then I even know hey, maybeTony's not ready to meet me
one-on-one, but he had a greatclass and he wants to be on the
email list.
That's fine, we'll throw him onthe email list, we'll keep them
in the drip and maybe one dayhe'll come back around and
there'll be an opportunity downthe road.
Okay, so it's all like there'sso many different angles you can
tap into, in my opinion, withdoing these things, where it's
just slowly going to grow.
But the truth is it doesn'thappen overnight and it is
(25:28):
consistently doing it andgrowing it and improving it to
finally get, I guess, thatsnowball going.
You know.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
What get, I guess, that snowball going.
You know, what I'm hearing isthat you put a lot of time and
effort into the pre-planning ofthe event, the hosting of the
event, but the event in and ofitself is not the end goal.
The event is just to move themfrom the top of the funnel to
middle of the funnel, just towarm that lead up a little bit.
So it's really important notjust to say I hosted an event
and I'm just using silly numbershere but I hosted an event.
(25:59):
I invited 10 people.
Three people showed up and onesaid that they would follow up.
But I called them once, askedthem to return my call and they
ghosted me, which I don't knowif ghosting after one call is
really ghosting, but you know.
So they get depressed like, oh,this doesn't work.
But really that is just to warmthem up to move them to the
(26:24):
next step.
So it's really important tohave that follow up and and not
say the event is the event.
The event is just the startingline, so to speak.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
Right, that's right, yeah, I, I agree, go ahead.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
So I was just going to kind of dig in a little bit
more on your follow-up.
So if you have something youwant to kind of close out with
this, we can, and then I want tomove on to your follow-up with
it.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Yep, yeah, so I will reach out.
Most people are going to wantto be on that email campaign
drip for access to other thingsI always have more stuff of
value to share and give awayagain and now reach them on
different platforms.
But then, in addition to that,I'm also going to be retargeting
(27:05):
these people.
I'm going to be runningadvertisements.
I'm going to be running metaads, and meta owns Facebook and
Instagram and these ads, if youknow how to do it, they're
incredibly inexpensive to runand they're incredibly targeted,
where we can target phonenumbers and or email addresses
of individuals, find theirsocial media accounts and
specifically run ads to them onaverage costs, costing you maybe
you know, half a penny to servethem an ad.
(27:26):
It's very, very strategic.
So that's one thing.
And then also, as of beginningof this year, I've been playing
around a lot with Google ads andyou can actually do the same
thing with Google ads.
You can upload phone numbers,emails, target people.
So now I'm hitting these peopleagain, multi-channel, as many
locations as possible.
But follow-up phase we're goingto be following up, whether it's
(27:47):
a combination of a phone call,a text message, an email, even
social media man, it goes downin the DMs, you wouldn't believe
, I would say, for me,prospecting, I convert most of
my meetings with prospectsthrough Messenger Facebook
Messenger, instagram Messengerand it just seems to be a great
communication stream.
Now, I don't just go in for theattack if I don't know you.
(28:08):
Hey, let's go grab one-on-one,let's go grab coffee, lunch
drinks, whatever.
It's of course massaging thatand building a relationship,
which is what social media is.
Of course, massaging that andbuilding a relationship, which
is what social media is, butit's again leaning into
different channels to try to getto that one-on-one appointment
and earn someone's business.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
So let's talk about that follow-up.
I know you're doing some of thethings interactively reaching
out in the DMs, having thoseconversations, trying to keep
that warm, but you mentionedhaving somebody in a drip.
So what's your and I'm lookingmore for, like structure how
many times are you hittingsomebody until they quit?
Do you have just weeks andweeks worth of drips?
Are you hitting them once aweek, once a month, like?
(28:49):
In my opinion, if somebody hasexpressed interest in working
with you, then there's twochoices Either they tell you
drop dead, or they dropped dead,or they signed up with you.
So I think maybe there's twoways to get out and one way to
get in.
But, what's your philosophy intiming?
(29:09):
How frequent Is it more justpromoting other events?
Is it getting really deep andtelling a story arc with them,
Like what's it look like for you?
Speaker 1 (29:20):
It's hitting multiple channels at once.
As soon as someone says thatthey want to meet with me, they
fill out a form or something,right, or they're on that list
right, I'm probably going to I'mshameless man, I'm going to
Facebook friend them.
Right, I'm going to follow themon Instagram.
I'm going to start engagingwith their content.
Right, I'm going to startcommenting.
Right, I'm going to startfinding commonalities on where
(29:41):
do we share interests.
What does that look like?
And then, if they did juststraight up, say they want to
meet with me, I'm going to pickup the phone and call them.
Right, I'm going to take aphoto of that handout where they
circled the yes on it and textit to them and say, hey, you
still want to meet, right, like,just straight to the point.
That's the easy ones.
Quite frankly, the harder onesare the no's or the people that
don't circle it at all.
(30:02):
So we're going to do thatfollow-up phase.
And then, in terms of like,let's say specifically, the
email drip, the email, the way Ihave it structured.
Personally, I use MailChimp,I've used it for years, I love
it, and every email, the way Istructure my email campaigns, is
(30:22):
at the very top.
It's going to be something ofvalue, whether it's a real
estate source or, excuse me, areal estate tool, resource and
idea, some sort of marketingstrategy and it's going to be an
embedded video that they canclick on that drives them to my
website.
Below that is going to be alive link to all of my upcoming
classes and events that they canclick.
Below that is going to besomething else of value, or some
sort of recap video on an eventor something of that nature.
(30:45):
And, lastly, I put in somethingpersonal, so whether it's a
video of my family and Itraveling to whatever
Switzerland, or pictures orwhatever.
So that's the structure.
It's never too much stuff Now.
Starting out, when I was firstbuilding these, the goal was can
I just get one once a month?
Now, fast forward, I've beenable to create more and more and
more, and I've even hired outthat help to have others create
(31:07):
that information for me.
So now I'm at one per week.
So one email per weekindefinitely.
My email campaigns areevergreen.
I'm a big believer in evergreencontent, whether it's video
content or your email campaign,and the way mine are structured
is that if Tony signs up for myemail drip today, it's going to
be the same email that I createdyears ago.
The only thing, truthfully,it's going to change is the age
(31:29):
of my children.
That's one thing I've realized.
But all the other content inthere and structure of it it's
all valuable information thathasn't changed.
So I don't have to go back andreinvent the wheel.
I just have to move forward andmake sure that I continue to
add another email so that, aseach week goes by, the drip
continues.
So it's forever, it's nevergoing to end.
(31:49):
Outside of that, you'reprobably going to be seeing my
ads on Facebook or Instagram,possibly through different
Google display replacements,through YouTube, et cetera, and
then you're going to keepgetting invited to other classes
and events.
So we're trying to hit as manychannels as we can.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Are you hosting any of these events?
I know we do a lot of them live.
I've seen a lot of your livecourses and presentations.
Are you doing any of thesewhere you're inviting people to
just a big Zoom or somethinglike that, or do you see a
drop-off in attendance, adrop-off in response?
(32:24):
I'm just curious what you thinkabout having online events.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
Last day they won pandemic days.
I know that was big.
I will do them occasionally ifsomeone asks me to, but I've got
a pretty hard and fast rulewhere, for me personally, my
audience again, if I were toniche into it it's real estate
agents.
It's real estate agents thatare doing business, it's real
estate agents that have listings.
Those are the majority of myclients.
I need to be front of them, Ineed to be face-to-face with
(32:47):
them.
They're here in my market,they're here not too far away
from me, and my opinion is theyneed to show up if they want to
learn this stuff.
And, in my opinion, you're justgoing to build that connection
faster, that rapport faster.
When you're in the room withsomeone, you're face-to-face
with them.
They have to pay attention,because I've been there, I've
been on the Zoom and I'minterested and I'm listening,
but I'm also texting and I'm onmy email and I'm doing five
(33:09):
different things.
I'm not actually engaged,because the reason why I'm
dealing with these classes andevents and others as well, is
we're trying to get to thatone-on-one, we're trying to
build that relationship withthat person in that time that we
have so that we can, of course,take that to the next level and
then, of course, then take itto the business side Now, with
that said, though, for those ofthose listening, if you do have
clients that you need to attractin other markets and whatnot, I
(33:31):
understand that that's notpossible for you.
And Tony, I don't know if you'veread this, but I'm a big fan of
Russell Brunson and he's got agreat book.
It's called Expert Secrets andit's one of the best books I've
read on marketing and runningwebinars and funnels and doing
all that stuff Back when I waskind of messing around building
some funnels back in the day.
It's cool and I would highlyrecommend, if you want to do the
(33:52):
webinar funnel style approach,definitely check out that book.
Expert.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Secrets too.
It's a great recommendation.
I actually have it.
It's sitting on my bookshelfover here, nice.
I've listened to it twicebecause it's easier for me to
listen to it while I'm running,but there is something about
sitting down and looking at thehe's got some graphics in there
and things.
That is good to follow along.
So what I'm hearing about the?
You mentioned something that Ifocus on a lot with my coaching
(34:17):
clients, which is identifyingyour target client profile and
people call it different things,but that's what I call it which
is really knowing who you'retrying to attract and then
speaking the language that cutsthrough all the other marketing
noise and marketing fluff to saythis person you know, jared, is
speaking directly to me,helping me solve some of my
(34:40):
issues.
And I want to go back tosomething.
Probably six, seven years agowhen you had first kind of hit
the scene it was right after wehad our first meeting I was
doing a lot of that direct mail.
We were hitting a lot of directmail to out-of-state owners but
that owned investmentproperties in the state of
Colorado, specifically in themarket I wanted to serve in
(35:02):
downtown Denver and we werespeaking directly to their pain
points about what it was like tohave a property in downtown
Denver, because it's differentthan owning a property in the
suburbs.
And what the pain points weredirectly.
And I remember sitting down withyou and you helping me figure
out specifically, like how tocapture their email addresses,
(35:22):
how to actually get a Googlephoto Cause if we did do it out
in the suburbs, get a Googlephoto of their home, you know
that connected directly withthem, that cut through the
marketing noise.
So what I'm hearing you say,one of the takeaways from this
portion of our chat here isreally know your target client
profile and then speak directlyto them.
(35:43):
And it's okay if other peoplethat don't match that profile
don't identify with your content.
They don't.
It doesn't provide value.
They show up, they say I'm notinterested in meeting one-on-one
.
That's okay because it savedyou time.
You've filtered out the peopleyou don't want to work with and
drew the people you do want towork with closer to you by
(36:05):
providing that valuable contentthat speaks to them.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
Yeah, that's great, yeah, and I agree.
And then another point on thatis when you do this and very
much, it's again other booksthat this applies to it's the
go-giver concept, it's ninjaselling, it's the mindset of I'm
going to give all and of courseI'd love to get business out of
it, but I don't expect businessout of it and there's always
(36:28):
going to be people, like yousaid, who are going to take
everything and run with it, andthat's you just have to have.
I know it's a hard mindset tohave, but you just have to have
that mindset and accept thatthat's okay.
And look at the positive side,that you don't have to spend
your time with that personbecause they don't want to work
with you anyway and they justsaved you the time of letting
you know, which is fantastic,and you'll still continue to see
them at your classes and events.
(36:49):
And again, that's okay becausethey're bettering themselves and
you just have to really, quitefrankly, just have to truthfully
wish the best for all of them.
But on the farming thing, realquick.
That's another aspect of themarketing standpoint.
There are a ton of great,successful real estate agents
and teams that I work with whodominate their neighborhoods and
send mailers and have done itforever who dominate their
neighborhoods and send mailersand have done it forever.
(37:11):
And yeah, us as a title company,a Chicago title, we invest in a
ton of tools and resources, andone of them it's probably our
most popular resources it's asystem where you can pull data
on just about any type ofproperty within the United
States of America Okay, soanywhere and it's very specific
data that you can pull, whether,of course, it's your
owner-occupied,non-owner-occupied, out of state
(37:31):
.
But you can drill down into theownership entity.
You can drill down into howmuch equity the person has in
the home, their mortgage rate,their loan type, their
likelihood to sell in the next12 months, and then you can also
get their phone and email.
So I agree with you, you got toknow who that avatar is and
then use a system like ours orwhatever, reach out to your
(37:51):
local title company to help youto pull this data.
Because, at the end of the day Ialways say this when I teach my
direct mail, my farming classis I just think it's gambling.
We're mailing and we're sendingdirect mail.
We're just gambling, that's allwe're doing, because I know the
real estate person who did itfor a month and got a deal out
of it.
And I know the guy down thestreet who did it for three
(38:12):
years and did everythingperfectly and never got anything
out of it.
But I do believe that you canimprove your odds when you're
sending direct mail, when you'releveraging two things, and the
first thing is data and havingan understanding of who you're
targeting, and then number twois messaging.
What are you putting on thatdirect mail piece?
What are you sending?
What's your call to action?
Is there even a QR code onthere?
Where are you sending them?
(38:32):
What does that follow-up looklike if they do click on
anything, and can you track anyof that?
So I think all of that canimprove your odds as long as,
like you said, you have aspecific focus on who you're
going after.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
Okay, I want to touch on the direct marketing thing
one more time and then I want tomove over into the online ads.
But we sent out directmarketing for years and years
and wrong.
This is how we did it.
We were less concerned aboutthe quality of the postcard that
went out or we were moreconcerned with the content.
(39:05):
You mentioned the messaging andthen the frequency.
You know, I remember that peoplecame into my market to try to
take over the market that I wasfarming multiple times and
they'd send out something superslick, glossy, basically either
a full eight and a half by 11 ora half cut half sheet postcard.
(39:25):
And I'm sending out these littlequarter cut for four to eight
and a half by 11 size.
But we were consistent.
We sent it out every 21 days.
They got something from me andthe reason I did it 21 days was
I wanted it to hit at differenttimes of the month because our
property managers if, if I'vegot a, if I'm a landlord, my
(39:45):
tenant either paid rent on thefirst or they didn't.
So if they paid rent on thefirst, they don't need me, but
if they didn't, you know itmight be the first I hit them,
then I hit them on the first,and then you know I'm hitting
them a little bit later thatnext month, and so it was just
getting that cycle.
Whether 21 days was justsomething that I decided was the
right number for me or not, itwas more about that follow-up
(40:07):
and consistency.
You can't do any of this stuffonce and expect that you're
going to get something from it.
Agreed, yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (40:16):
I'm super interested in the retargeting ads and if we
can talk a little bit aboutwhat that is, just so everybody
has that same foundation.
And then I know some peoplethat have tried this and it's a
little bit like there's a lot ofsnake oil salesmen out there
that will tell you they candeliver, and so there's a lot of
(40:40):
great people out there that canactually deliver.
So how do you go about?
Do you do it yourself?
Do you learn how to?
Is it simple to do and trackthese things?
Like how would somebody getstarted?
Because there is a lot ofinterest in our market for being
able to do these online adsTargeted custom audience.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
Meta ads and or Google ads are, in my opinion,
the cheapest form of marketingout there, period.
I mean, they're so cheap andthey're so darn targeted.
The question is, you got to askyourself do I want to hire a
company to do this or do I wantto do it myself?
And unfortunately, neitheroption is easy because you don't
really know if you can reallytrust that company.
And exactly what you said, tonyI've heard over and over again
(41:22):
of individuals dropping $1,000,$2,000, $3,000, $4,000, $5,000,
$6,000, $7,000 and getting allthese false promises from this
marketing company.
And unfortunately it's trickybecause you just don't know,
unless you know someone whorefers them to you.
So if you do go that route of amarketing company where you're
looking for lead generationspecifically, I would ask more
questions when it comes to themsaying, hey, they're going to
(41:43):
deliver leads, and I would askwhat's their definition of a
lead?
Because I'll tell you what.
I know how to generate cheapbuyer leads all day long for
realtors they're three bucks alead on Facebook, a name, phone
number and email.
But it doesn't mean they wantto talk to you.
It doesn't mean they're readyto buy or sell anytime soon.
So I think you need to be veryclear on what the definition of
a lead is.
How far along in the process isthis person ready to work with
(42:06):
you?
That's very, very important andideally if you could, if
there's a marketing company youcould work with that.
Actually, you pay based off ofperformance, whether it's phone
call or one-on-one meeting.
I would rather pay all day longfor that versus just random
leads.
Personally, I would pay morefor that.
Now, if you want to do ityourself, I'm just going to be
honest with you.
It's not easy.
I'm not just saying that itreally is.
(42:32):
It's a pain.
When it comes to running andsetting up ads through meta, the
hardest part is setting it up.
Once you have it set up, though, it's pretty darn painless and
much more easy to continue torun these advertisements.
But the struggle is setting upwhat's called the meta business
suite, so it's not really shownor really offered easily to
anyone who has a Facebook orInstagram account.
You kind of have to know aboutit and how to get to it, and of
course, they make that tricky.
But basically throughFacebookcom, which is owned by
(42:54):
Meta, you can actually clickinto.
There's a menu button and youcan click on your ads manager or
even your Meta Business Suiteoption, and when you go back
there, what this is isessentially a layout of
different things.
First of all, depending on whatscreen you're looking at, you
can see analytics on, maybe,your post that are posted to
your Facebook or Instagramaccount.
But, more specifically, whenyou tap into what's called the
(43:16):
ads manager, where we set up andrun these ads, you can now do
some really, really cool things,and examples of cool things you
can do with these types of adsthrough Meta is you can target
phone numbers and emails.
So take that farm list thatyou're mailing to and extract
the phone numbers and the emailaddresses and upload those into
Meta, and Meta is going to goout and try to find these people
(43:36):
, because when Tony creates aFacebook and or an Instagram
account, he has to provide aphone and email, and all we're
doing is reverse engineering thecontact information that we
have and then matching it up toTony, and now we can serve Tony
a specific ad just to him, andthat's where it gets very, very
targeted and very, veryinexpensive.
Okay, other things we can do wecan retarget people that are
(43:58):
engaging or new followers to ourInstagram account.
We can retarget people who likeor follow our Facebook business
page.
There's things you can do moreadvanced.
You can set up pixels on yourwebsite and do pixel retargeting
.
There's tons of stuff.
It goes deep, but for theperson that wants to do this, I,
without a doubt, believe thatyou should do this.
I truly believe if you are in asales position where you rely
(44:19):
on repeater referral business oryou own a business where you
rely on repeater referralbusiness, you should run meta
ads because they're targeted andthey're cheap.
Okay, so once you can set upthe meta business suite, where
you basically connect yourFacebook page, your Instagram
account, your ads account andthat's done, you can then start
to run these apps.
All right, and one thing that Ithink a lot of us get caught up
(44:40):
when we throw around the wordads and advertising is there's
two pathways when it comes torunning advertisements.
Path A, which I think most ofus think of, is let's run ads
and let's generate leads, which,yes, is very valuable if you do
it properly.
But I truly believe, before youeven try to do that, or if you
are doing that, you need to alsobe working through the other
(45:02):
path, which is running ads forbrand awareness, because these
ads, they're so cheap to do andyou want to retarget and stay in
front of all of your customersand people for that repeat
referral opportunity.
For those of you, if you'relistening to this and you just
hate social media and you'relike I don't want to be on
social media, I hate it, that'scool too, but you still have to
(45:23):
realize that your potentialaudience, your potential avatar,
is most likely on Facebook andor Instagram and from a business
standpoint, you should stilltap into this ad standpoint.
What's cool is you can takecontent and maybe you don't want
to post or whatever, but if youcan just take a piece of
content, you can set thatcontent up as an advertisement
(45:44):
for 30, 60, 90 plus days andhave it run and keep you in
front of people.
Now, one other thing to pointout here ads versus organic
posts.
For those of you that areposting content on, say,
facebook, instagram, whatever,that's great, kudos to you.
But the struggle that we're allagainst.
The problem is with all of thisis the algorithm, right?
(46:05):
I don't know about you, tony,but I've been there where I've
taken time and energy or maybeI've spent money and I've hired
someone to create this video orthis piece of content for me and
then I post it and put it outthere, thinking it's just going
to go viral.
It gets the kind of likes,comments, shares, then just kind
of dies out 48 hours later.
What's great is, if you believein that piece of content or
(46:27):
maybe you do have a piece ofcontent that hits let's take
that piece of content and put alittle bit of money behind it
and create that rocket fueleffect to put in front of
everyone.
Because, truthfully, when youpost organic content on your
social platforms, it's onlygoing to reach a small
percentage of your audience andyou're missing everyone.
So we need to run these ads tobreak through that barrier.
Tom Ferry, he calls it socialpostage.
(46:48):
You're just spending a littlebit of money to take your ad and
put in front of everyone.
Okay, so start there.
Do the targeted ads to youraudience.
Go to the back end of the metabusiness suite.
If you don't know how to dothis, google it.
That's how I learned you justtype in YouTube video how to set
up the Meta business suite andwalk through it step-by-step and
then have it done.
(47:09):
Step two is how to set upcustom audiences for Meta ads.
Just Google that and Iguarantee you there's videos out
there on how to do it and I'mtelling you it's worth every
penny because when you set upand run this from a cost
standpoint typically everydollar that you spend on an
advertisement on Meta, if you'resetting this up for awareness
to reach the masses, on averageyou can dial in where your ads
(47:32):
are.
You're spending half a penny tomaybe a penny to show the exact
person you want, your specificadvertisement, and it's very
effective.
Speaker 2 (47:41):
I love that.
I would love to dig in thatdeeper and, for those of you
that are in the Denver orColorado marketplace, I would
encourage you to join one ofJared's classes, because I'm
sure that's one of the thingsthat he talks about.
Before we wrap up, I feel likewe kind of glossed over
something that you threw outthere.
There's two things I want tocombine.
(48:02):
First one is Chicago Title is anational company, so you've got
locations throughout the UnitedStates.
The second thing is you haveaccess to data through this tool
that you mentioned for propertyowners across the United States
.
So if somebody wanted to findsomebody to partner with to have
(48:22):
access to this data, obviouslyin Colorado they're going to
reach out to you.
But how would we go aboutgetting people access to this,
this tool that you guys have toget that data?
Because combining that miningdata, mining that data and then
combining that with theseFacebook ads, pulling that
(48:42):
information and figuring out howto combine that, I think is
just a an extremely powerfultool that I think most of the
people in our industry aren'teven aware of the ability to
pull these things together andcreate a lot of awareness and
opportunity.
Speaker 1 (48:57):
Yeah, if you're not in the Colorado market and
you're looking to pull this typeof data, I would recommend just
doing a quick search for localtitle companies in the area and
reaching out to some of them.
High likelihood that titlecompanies are going to have this
data.
I feel like it's kind of been athing for us for many, many
years having access to thisinformation Chicago title, f&f
(49:20):
Brands, fidelity, nationalFinancial, which owns Chicago
title, heritage title, fidelitytitle the list goes on.
There's over 1,200 officesacross the United States.
Reach out to one of the titlebrands in your market and see if
you can get set up and accessto this data, because it's very
valuable, like you said, whenyou know how to use it.
Speaker 2 (49:41):
Perfect, jared, I'm going to, if you'd like, people
who are real estate agents inthe Colorado market.
If they're looking, I'd love toprovide your links in the show
notes.
But if there's anything elseyou want to share, I'll kind of
give you the last word as wewrap up here.
I appreciate it.
I mean, we just scratched thesurface on the stuff that you
(50:03):
and I that I know, that you know, and I wish we did have, you
know, a four hour or a half aday class where we could put
people in front of you, becauseeven at that is barely diving
below the surface and you haveso much to offer.
If somebody wants to partnerwith you here in Colorado for
their title needs, how wouldthey get ahold of you?
Speaker 1 (50:23):
Sure, Probably most memorable option just Google
search Mile High Title Guy,wwwmilehightitleguycom, or find
me on Instagram milehightitleguyJared Larkin, Chicago Title.
If you do have a transactionwhether it's if you're a
mortgage professional, listening, or a real estate professional
(50:43):
and there's an opportunity towork with a title company
Chicago Title we'd love to putour hat in the ring there and
support you.
So please reach out to mewhether you need a title quote
or an owner encumbrance reportor really anything.
I'd love to support you andTony, thank you so much for
having me on today.
Really appreciate it Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (50:59):
Great seeing you and look forward to seeing you again
real soon.
All right, take care.
Thanks for tuning in to theProperty Management Success
Podcast.
We'll be back with anothervalue-packed episode to help you
level up your propertymanagement game.
If you've got somethingvaluable out of today's episode,
please share it with a friendor colleague, and don't forget
to subscribe and leave a reviewso you never miss out on future
(51:21):
insights and strategies andtactics.
Until next time, here's to yoursuccess.
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