February 5, 2024 • 21 mins
Unlock the hidden patterns of your mind as we venture into the realm of experiential avoidance—a concept far more prevalent in our daily lives than we might realize. Have you ever noticed yourself shying away from uncomfortable tasks or conversations, only to face a mountain of stress later on? Our latest episode peels back the layers of this psychological behavior, revealing its deceptive allure and the subtle ways it can undermine our mental health. We dissect procrastination, a classic example of experiential avoidance, and discuss the irony of how seeking immediate relief can spiral into anxiety and chaos as deadlines loom. This enlightening journey into self-awareness promises to offer you a fresh perspective on the coping strategies you unwittingly employ and how they may be impacting your life.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Bonjour, welcome to Psychologist's Day, a podcast
where we talk about thepsychology of everyday life, and
I'm your host, dr Tammy.
Today we are going to betalking about something called
experiential avoidance.
I think this I know that wordexperiential sounds like a big
word.
Basically, I want you to breakit down and think about
(00:33):
experience, that when we areengaging in something that's
called experiential avoidance,this is a term to really get
down to the root of what we doas humans, where we try to
create something, do something,whether it be conscious or
(00:55):
unconscious, to avoid anexperience, and so you just put
those two words together and wehave that term, those terms
experiential avoidance.
As humans Remember, I've saidthis in several of the podcasts
where we talk about it is ourhuman nature to avoid unpleasant
(01:16):
or to want to avoid theunpleasant.
We want to avoid suffering, theuncomfortable feelings that we
may have anything that is worthanything in this world.
We have to work, we have tosuffer, yet oftentimes we want
to delay this type of suffering,we want to postpone it, we want
(01:41):
to numb it, we just do not wantto feel it, or maybe we can
feel it, but not at this moment.
So that's where experientialavoidance comes into play, and I
think it's an importantconversation for us to have,
because if you're ever workingwith a therapist, this is
(02:04):
something that they may betalking to you about and maybe
not totally labeling what it is,or it's something if you're at
home and you're listening and itcan resonate with you, which
I'm sure for many of ourlisteners at will.
This is something that we allengage in and through our talk
(02:25):
today you'll see that there'sdifferent levels in terms of the
level of dysfunction orinterruption that can come with
the amount of avoidancetechniques that we're using and
the type of behavior where itcan be very hurtful and harmful
to ourselves to engage in thistype of avoidance over the long
haul.
(02:46):
So when you think about thisterm avoidance experiential it's
really an unwillingness toremain in a distressing internal
state, so it's really a bigreluctance to feel the feelings
of being uncomfortable, and thiscan take many forms, but it's
(03:08):
essentially trying our best toinsert something or do something
to avoid having to feel ourfeelings in that situation.
And this could even be thoughts, if there are certain thoughts
that come across as painful tous.
So we may not even be in acertain situation or time or
(03:28):
place, but it may be a thoughtthat that really results in us
feeling uncomfortable orstruggling, having some pain or
difficulty processing, orfeeling that we may do something
to avoid having this thought,to replace this thought, and
(03:49):
these are the types of thingsthat, when you're dealing with
experiential avoidance, you'redoing something to suppress and
to hold down this thought.
So oftentimes it's somethingthat is unhealthy for us, that
we're inserting into our livesto control and block out this
uncomfortable experience that wecould be having.
(04:10):
And these type of avoidancebehaviors can be very sneaky,
they can be difficult to spot,they can be part of your way of
living.
That it's just.
This is the person I am, thisis how I do things, without
(04:31):
really examining the level ofdisruption it could be creating
in your life or even theinternal back and forth of if
you're living in accordance withyour values and your goals and
the way you want to be livingversus how you're actually
behaving.
(04:51):
And so it's a really deep diveinto our own types of thinking
and behaving and our level offeeling comfortable with
uncomfortable feelings, and soit's a really good talk.
It's a heavy talk, I think, andso today we're just going to
get into it just a bit so youhave that terminology and that
(05:12):
you can start to relay this andrelate it to other parts of your
life.
Or maybe you're engaging incertain behaviors that you
really want to tackle.
Maybe you know, you're aware ofsome of these types of
avoidance behaviors that you'redoing, and an example would be
(05:34):
If you're struggling withcompleting an assignment or you
have a project that's due andinstead of facing and working
through that anxiety, thatstress, having the discipline,
maybe even some of the boredom,whatever feeling is tied to you,
(05:55):
having a deadline,procrastinating is one of those
ways that we suppress, we avoid,we put it off until later,
because that uncomfortablefeeling of having to work, maybe
not having that control overyour time and what you want to
do with it or your motivation,may really put us into a state
(06:20):
where we experience and we startto do things that are purposely
procrastinating.
Now, when I say on purpose, it'sbecause we want to avoid this
feeling of doing the work,because, like those reasons I
just said, that the work couldbe frustrating, it could be time
(06:40):
consuming, it could be the typeof work that you know kills
your brain versus enhances it.
These are all things that,individually, you have to define
, because when we procrastinatenow, you can see it as part of
this feeling of experientialavoidance.
(07:02):
I am doing something to avoidan uncomfortable situation or a
deadline, something that isactivating my system and I want
to avoid it.
So I will delay it, I will putit off, I will engage in other
activities that are more maybereinforcing to me at that time,
(07:24):
and so that's where we start tohave that dilemma internally of
maybe some of that self-talk,where we're starting to question
why we procrastinate, why do weput ourselves through almost
extra pain?
And part of this avoidance isthat it does work for people.
It works in the short term soyou can have some immediate
(07:47):
relief, some immediategratification by releasing the
uncomfortable feeling of nothaving to do something and then
increasing that positive feelingof having that stress released.
So that's very reinforcing.
But in the long haul you mayfind that it brings more
(08:11):
discomfort when you may have theproject do and you only have
one day to get this project done.
You may be the type that is nowworking on adrenaline and
working under time constraintand then almost creating this
kind of chaos for you to getthis done, and that can have a
(08:31):
long-term effect on how wefunction in everyday life.
It can affect how our body canregulate stress because we are
overloading it with cortisol,adrenaline because of that
procrastination.
And in the long haul we learnhow to continue these patterns
of procrastination because maybethey work for us.
(08:53):
So in the short term, we havethat delay, we have that relief
and that release of doingsomething to avoid the feeling,
or even doing something to avoidtaking the action that may feel
unpleasant to get our task done, and so that's how we start to
(09:16):
see this, how these can becomepatterns for us in our lives.
So I want you to think aboutother things, such as putting
off going to a social event orbeing in a social event, and
maybe you are not physically.
You're physically present, butyour mind and your body even
(09:37):
feels distant.
You're having trouble, maybe,connecting with the people
around you Because your mind maybe so preoccupied with fears of
being judged, being ridiculed,your own self-esteem issues,
some inadequacy, and so you maywant to then avoid those
(09:59):
situations.
That's part of this.
Like when I said, this type ofavoidance can be tricky and it
can be very subtle Because maybeyou're not, you don't think
you're actively doing anythingto self-sabotage in that
situation, however, you areengaging in a preoccupation with
(10:21):
worry and fear in your mind,and that preoccupation then
becomes part of thisexperiential avoidance, where
you're so preoccupied and caughtup with a worry dialogue or
fear dialogue in your brain thatyou're physically and mentally
(10:41):
and psychologically unable toconnect with anybody
meaningfully in that environment.
So it makes you feel even moresocially isolated, when maybe
that's the exact thing that youwent to the social setting to
get was some kind of socialinteraction.
And so some of you may bethinking okay, this is some of
(11:04):
the things that I do.
Maybe I wasn't so aware of this,and so these are things that
are common, but some people doit to a point where it starts to
create so much more depressionand anxiety, and it can also
lead to a lot of other behaviorswhere using alcohol or drug use
(11:27):
, eating I just said an episodeon emotional eating.
So these types of behaviors,these are things that we can try
to use to escape and avoid bydoing something external to try
to cope with our internalfeelings of suffering, pain,
inadequacy and some resistance,of not wanting to feel that.
(11:51):
So anytime that we are addingsomething, to take something
negative away, and so you canthink of this as simple as
taking a painkiller when you'rein pain.
You want that relief of pain,so you're adding something to
help you feel less pain, and so,when you think about this, it's
(12:16):
adding.
It could be a person that'sadding alcohol to decrease their
anxiety or inhibit theirresponse so that they can be
more interactive, that they canmaybe quiet that voice in their
head and then eventually maybethey're able to interact.
But see, these are all part ofavoiding and blocking out the
(12:41):
feeling and the experience totry to create something that
they're having difficulty doingwithout this type of coping or
this defense mechanism.
So you can see where this canbecome quite dangerous for
people.
When you're using a substance oryou're using food or you're
(13:03):
using something that's veryharmful and hurtful to yourself,
even just pushing down athought or a feeling for so long
that eventually your body willneed to process this.
It's something that isuncomfortable and learning how
to sit with our comfort,identifying it, accepting pieces
(13:26):
of it, can allow us to start tobe okay with the feeling of
uncertainty, that feelinguncomfortable or having this
internal doubt.
It's natural, it's part of ourlife.
We were designed to be able tohandle our suffering, believe it
or not, and so part of that ismaking friends with your
(13:51):
suffering when you'reexperiencing it.
This is also part of oursurvival, that we have these
feelings also to keep us safe,and so allowing yourself to feel
some of those emotions or eventrack them, understand why
you're doing certain behaviorsto avoid now can make you feel
(14:17):
much more empowered to decreasesome of that avoidance and step
into some of that feeling orstep into some of those
behaviors that help you feelrewarded in a good way.
And so those are some of thethings that I just want you to
start thinking about today, andwe'll be talking about this much
(14:37):
more, because it's a very bigtopic and it's one that I'm very
fond of in the work that I dowith the individuals that I work
with, and I believe it'ssomething that, individually, we
all have to define what ourinternal motivations are and
(14:59):
when you're trying to understandhow can I become less rigid,
less avoidant in my thinking andbehaviors?
When I'm feeling uncomfortable,how can I go into a situation or
go into a conversation or workwith myself in a way that can
help me be less avoidant andmore present, more accepting,
(15:27):
and so part of that, there's aterm called psychological
flexibility, and this issomething that some people are
just born with.
More of this trait, they don'thave a lot of difficulty,
they're kind of go with the flow.
They may not get too uptight orworried about things.
(15:49):
They may be able to keep theirbody calm and relaxed for the
most part and they may be ableto really just learn and know
how to navigate socialsituations and cope and deal
with uncomfortable feelings.
And so these are the peoplethat have been able to develop
(16:10):
these skills and many of us havenot.
You know that we may do somegood in some situations, yet
feel ourselves really strugglingmany times with these emotions.
So, trying to work towards beingable to understand the
(16:30):
circumstances that you're underand try to add something a
little bit more creative andaccepting about what you're
going through and this takes alittle bit of time to sit and
think and be aware of what asituation is triggering inside
of you.
It's becoming your owndetective and you're not worried
(16:54):
about what's going on foreverybody else.
This is focusing on you andyour level of what's being
triggered inside of you andwhat's important to you in terms
of your values, your needs,your wants.
Where do you want to seeyourself, what are you avoiding,
(17:16):
what are you trying to pushaway with certain behaviors?
And then you want to just startto keep track of these, journal
these, process them.
If you have a good friend or ifyou have a therapist, that
would be really great and takeyour time with it, start off
small and then look at thingsthat you, where you've done
(17:39):
maybe some confrontation orexperiencing successfully in
life.
We don't do this all of the time.
There are times when we've hadbig successes in our lives,
where we've confronted our fears, we've worked through the pain.
We had the excitement and thereinforcement and the
(17:59):
recognition of finishingsomething or doing something, or
challenging and confronting andhandling something in a good
way.
You always want to find that,even if it's just one time in
your life.
I want you to write that downand always remember that that's
within you to be able to do that.
And so we don't want to look atthis as if we're failing in
(18:21):
life.
We want to look at this asthough we're meant to succeed or
we are designed to be able tohandle and cope.
Yet we have to take these babysteps into figuring out and
having these conversations andstarting with these small steps,
but always focus on the timesthat you feel you did it well,
(18:42):
because that's the way to feelthat empowerment and that's the
way to model for yourself howyou're able to do it the next
time.
And so just working on being alittle more loving and
compassionate with yourself is ahuge step in the right
direction to start to be able toaccept and make friends with
(19:04):
this piece of us that may feeluncomfortable, insecure, worried
, maybe want to isolate versussocialize and integrate.
The piece of us that may wantto withdraw because we're
uncertain, we're scared, but yetwe want to connect, because we
want to feel that meaning, wewant to have meaningful and
(19:25):
healthy relationships withpeople.
We want to be able to confrontand work towards our fears
versus letting them bring alongmore avoidance and anxiety,
because eventually that's whatmanifests as more of the
unhappiness of what we're notdoing and the internal belief
(19:49):
that we know that we could bedoing it.
So I hope that today was a greatconversation.
It's a huge topic and one thatI will be able to now that I've
brought it up, I'll be able tobring it up many more times
throughout the podcast and keepbuilding on these talks that
we're having.
Thank you for checking in.
(20:09):
I hope that you're able to goto the psychologist's seat and
listen to other episodes,because we're really building
blocks to be able to have deeperconversations with each other,
and I know that the listenersare definitely ready and they
want to have these conversationsabout everyday life.
(20:32):
But we want to bring them up toanother level and be able to
really understand and talk aboutthings that people just are not
having conversations about.
So, again, thanks for checkingin.
Ps, it's human nature to wantto avoid the uncomfortable, yet
it's well, with inner abilityand capacity, to be able to
(20:53):
tackle these situations.
So thank you for checking in,mi goch.
Bonjour, welcome to Psychologist's Day, a podcast
where we talk about thepsychology of everyday life, and
I'm your host, dr Tammy.
Today we are going to betalking about something called
experiential avoidance.
I think this I know that wordexperiential sounds like a big
word.
Basically, I want you to breakit down and think about
(00:33):
experience, that when we areengaging in something that's
called experiential avoidance,this is a term to really get
down to the root of what we doas humans, where we try to
create something, do something,whether it be conscious or
(00:55):
unconscious, to avoid anexperience, and so you just put
those two words together and wehave that term, those terms
experiential avoidance.
As humans Remember, I've saidthis in several of the podcasts
where we talk about it is ourhuman nature to avoid unpleasant
(01:16):
or to want to avoid theunpleasant.
We want to avoid suffering, theuncomfortable feelings that we
may have anything that is worthanything in this world.
We have to work, we have tosuffer, yet oftentimes we want
to delay this type of suffering,we want to postpone it, we want
(01:41):
to numb it, we just do not wantto feel it, or maybe we can
feel it, but not at this moment.
So that's where experientialavoidance comes into play, and I
think it's an importantconversation for us to have,
because if you're ever workingwith a therapist, this is
(02:04):
something that they may betalking to you about and maybe
not totally labeling what it is,or it's something if you're at
home and you're listening and itcan resonate with you, which
I'm sure for many of ourlisteners at will.
This is something that we allengage in and through our talk
(02:25):
today you'll see that there'sdifferent levels in terms of the
level of dysfunction orinterruption that can come with
the amount of avoidancetechniques that we're using and
the type of behavior where itcan be very hurtful and harmful
to ourselves to engage in thistype of avoidance over the long
haul.
(02:46):
So when you think about thisterm avoidance experiential it's
really an unwillingness toremain in a distressing internal
state, so it's really a bigreluctance to feel the feelings
of being uncomfortable, and thiscan take many forms, but it's
(03:08):
essentially trying our best toinsert something or do something
to avoid having to feel ourfeelings in that situation.
And this could even be thoughts, if there are certain thoughts
that come across as painful tous.
So we may not even be in acertain situation or time or
(03:28):
place, but it may be a thoughtthat that really results in us
feeling uncomfortable orstruggling, having some pain or
difficulty processing, orfeeling that we may do something
to avoid having this thought,to replace this thought, and
(03:49):
these are the types of thingsthat, when you're dealing with
experiential avoidance, you'redoing something to suppress and
to hold down this thought.
So oftentimes it's somethingthat is unhealthy for us, that
we're inserting into our livesto control and block out this
uncomfortable experience that wecould be having.
(04:10):
And these type of avoidancebehaviors can be very sneaky,
they can be difficult to spot,they can be part of your way of
living.
That it's just.
This is the person I am, thisis how I do things, without
(04:31):
really examining the level ofdisruption it could be creating
in your life or even theinternal back and forth of if
you're living in accordance withyour values and your goals and
the way you want to be livingversus how you're actually
behaving.
(04:51):
And so it's a really deep diveinto our own types of thinking
and behaving and our level offeeling comfortable with
uncomfortable feelings, and soit's a really good talk.
It's a heavy talk, I think, andso today we're just going to
get into it just a bit so youhave that terminology and that
(05:12):
you can start to relay this andrelate it to other parts of your
life.
Or maybe you're engaging incertain behaviors that you
really want to tackle.
Maybe you know, you're aware ofsome of these types of
avoidance behaviors that you'redoing, and an example would be
(05:34):
If you're struggling withcompleting an assignment or you
have a project that's due andinstead of facing and working
through that anxiety, thatstress, having the discipline,
maybe even some of the boredom,whatever feeling is tied to you,
(05:55):
having a deadline,procrastinating is one of those
ways that we suppress, we avoid,we put it off until later,
because that uncomfortablefeeling of having to work, maybe
not having that control overyour time and what you want to
do with it or your motivation,may really put us into a state
(06:20):
where we experience and we startto do things that are purposely
procrastinating.
Now, when I say on purpose, it'sbecause we want to avoid this
feeling of doing the work,because, like those reasons I
just said, that the work couldbe frustrating, it could be time
(06:40):
consuming, it could be the typeof work that you know kills
your brain versus enhances it.
These are all things that,individually, you have to define
, because when we procrastinatenow, you can see it as part of
this feeling of experientialavoidance.
(07:02):
I am doing something to avoidan uncomfortable situation or a
deadline, something that isactivating my system and I want
to avoid it.
So I will delay it, I will putit off, I will engage in other
activities that are more maybereinforcing to me at that time,
(07:24):
and so that's where we start tohave that dilemma internally of
maybe some of that self-talk,where we're starting to question
why we procrastinate, why do weput ourselves through almost
extra pain?
And part of this avoidance isthat it does work for people.
It works in the short term soyou can have some immediate
(07:47):
relief, some immediategratification by releasing the
uncomfortable feeling of nothaving to do something and then
increasing that positive feelingof having that stress released.
So that's very reinforcing.
But in the long haul you mayfind that it brings more
(08:11):
discomfort when you may have theproject do and you only have
one day to get this project done.
You may be the type that is nowworking on adrenaline and
working under time constraintand then almost creating this
kind of chaos for you to getthis done, and that can have a
(08:31):
long-term effect on how wefunction in everyday life.
It can affect how our body canregulate stress because we are
overloading it with cortisol,adrenaline because of that
procrastination.
And in the long haul we learnhow to continue these patterns
of procrastination because maybethey work for us.
(08:53):
So in the short term, we havethat delay, we have that relief
and that release of doingsomething to avoid the feeling,
or even doing something to avoidtaking the action that may feel
unpleasant to get our task done, and so that's how we start to
(09:16):
see this, how these can becomepatterns for us in our lives.
So I want you to think aboutother things, such as putting
off going to a social event orbeing in a social event, and
maybe you are not physically.
You're physically present, butyour mind and your body even
(09:37):
feels distant.
You're having trouble, maybe,connecting with the people
around you Because your mind maybe so preoccupied with fears of
being judged, being ridiculed,your own self-esteem issues,
some inadequacy, and so you maywant to then avoid those
(09:59):
situations.
That's part of this.
Like when I said, this type ofavoidance can be tricky and it
can be very subtle Because maybeyou're not, you don't think
you're actively doing anythingto self-sabotage in that
situation, however, you areengaging in a preoccupation with
(10:21):
worry and fear in your mind,and that preoccupation then
becomes part of thisexperiential avoidance, where
you're so preoccupied and caughtup with a worry dialogue or
fear dialogue in your brain thatyou're physically and mentally
(10:41):
and psychologically unable toconnect with anybody
meaningfully in that environment.
So it makes you feel even moresocially isolated, when maybe
that's the exact thing that youwent to the social setting to
get was some kind of socialinteraction.
And so some of you may bethinking okay, this is some of
(11:04):
the things that I do.
Maybe I wasn't so aware of this,and so these are things that
are common, but some people doit to a point where it starts to
create so much more depressionand anxiety, and it can also
lead to a lot of other behaviorswhere using alcohol or drug use
(11:27):
, eating I just said an episodeon emotional eating.
So these types of behaviors,these are things that we can try
to use to escape and avoid bydoing something external to try
to cope with our internalfeelings of suffering, pain,
inadequacy and some resistance,of not wanting to feel that.
(11:51):
So anytime that we are addingsomething, to take something
negative away, and so you canthink of this as simple as
taking a painkiller when you'rein pain.
You want that relief of pain,so you're adding something to
help you feel less pain, and so,when you think about this, it's
(12:16):
adding.
It could be a person that'sadding alcohol to decrease their
anxiety or inhibit theirresponse so that they can be
more interactive, that they canmaybe quiet that voice in their
head and then eventually maybethey're able to interact.
But see, these are all part ofavoiding and blocking out the
(12:41):
feeling and the experience totry to create something that
they're having difficulty doingwithout this type of coping or
this defense mechanism.
So you can see where this canbecome quite dangerous for
people.
When you're using a substance oryou're using food or you're
(13:03):
using something that's veryharmful and hurtful to yourself,
even just pushing down athought or a feeling for so long
that eventually your body willneed to process this.
It's something that isuncomfortable and learning how
to sit with our comfort,identifying it, accepting pieces
(13:26):
of it, can allow us to start tobe okay with the feeling of
uncertainty, that feelinguncomfortable or having this
internal doubt.
It's natural, it's part of ourlife.
We were designed to be able tohandle our suffering, believe it
or not, and so part of that ismaking friends with your
(13:51):
suffering when you'reexperiencing it.
This is also part of oursurvival, that we have these
feelings also to keep us safe,and so allowing yourself to feel
some of those emotions or eventrack them, understand why
you're doing certain behaviorsto avoid now can make you feel
(14:17):
much more empowered to decreasesome of that avoidance and step
into some of that feeling orstep into some of those
behaviors that help you feelrewarded in a good way.
And so those are some of thethings that I just want you to
start thinking about today, andwe'll be talking about this much
(14:37):
more, because it's a very bigtopic and it's one that I'm very
fond of in the work that I dowith the individuals that I work
with, and I believe it'ssomething that, individually, we
all have to define what ourinternal motivations are and
(14:59):
when you're trying to understandhow can I become less rigid,
less avoidant in my thinking andbehaviors?
When I'm feeling uncomfortable,how can I go into a situation or
go into a conversation or workwith myself in a way that can
help me be less avoidant andmore present, more accepting,
(15:27):
and so part of that, there's aterm called psychological
flexibility, and this issomething that some people are
just born with.
More of this trait, they don'thave a lot of difficulty,
they're kind of go with the flow.
They may not get too uptight orworried about things.
(15:49):
They may be able to keep theirbody calm and relaxed for the
most part and they may be ableto really just learn and know
how to navigate socialsituations and cope and deal
with uncomfortable feelings.
And so these are the peoplethat have been able to develop
(16:10):
these skills and many of us havenot.
You know that we may do somegood in some situations, yet
feel ourselves really strugglingmany times with these emotions.
So, trying to work towards beingable to understand the
(16:30):
circumstances that you're underand try to add something a
little bit more creative andaccepting about what you're
going through and this takes alittle bit of time to sit and
think and be aware of what asituation is triggering inside
of you.
It's becoming your owndetective and you're not worried
(16:54):
about what's going on foreverybody else.
This is focusing on you andyour level of what's being
triggered inside of you andwhat's important to you in terms
of your values, your needs,your wants.
Where do you want to seeyourself, what are you avoiding,
(17:16):
what are you trying to pushaway with certain behaviors?
And then you want to just startto keep track of these, journal
these, process them.
If you have a good friend or ifyou have a therapist, that
would be really great and takeyour time with it, start off
small and then look at thingsthat you, where you've done
(17:39):
maybe some confrontation orexperiencing successfully in
life.
We don't do this all of the time.
There are times when we've hadbig successes in our lives,
where we've confronted our fears, we've worked through the pain.
We had the excitement and thereinforcement and the
(17:59):
recognition of finishingsomething or doing something, or
challenging and confronting andhandling something in a good
way.
You always want to find that,even if it's just one time in
your life.
I want you to write that downand always remember that that's
within you to be able to do that.
And so we don't want to look atthis as if we're failing in
(18:21):
life.
We want to look at this asthough we're meant to succeed or
we are designed to be able tohandle and cope.
Yet we have to take these babysteps into figuring out and
having these conversations andstarting with these small steps,
but always focus on the timesthat you feel you did it well,
(18:42):
because that's the way to feelthat empowerment and that's the
way to model for yourself howyou're able to do it the next
time.
And so just working on being alittle more loving and
compassionate with yourself is ahuge step in the right
direction to start to be able toaccept and make friends with
(19:04):
this piece of us that may feeluncomfortable, insecure, worried
, maybe want to isolate versussocialize and integrate.
The piece of us that may wantto withdraw because we're
uncertain, we're scared, but yetwe want to connect, because we
want to feel that meaning, wewant to have meaningful and
(19:25):
healthy relationships withpeople.
We want to be able to confrontand work towards our fears
versus letting them bring alongmore avoidance and anxiety,
because eventually that's whatmanifests as more of the
unhappiness of what we're notdoing and the internal belief
(19:49):
that we know that we could bedoing it.
So I hope that today was a greatconversation.
It's a huge topic and one thatI will be able to now that I've
brought it up, I'll be able tobring it up many more times
throughout the podcast and keepbuilding on these talks that
we're having.
Thank you for checking in.
(20:09):
I hope that you're able to goto the psychologist's seat and
listen to other episodes,because we're really building
blocks to be able to have deeperconversations with each other,
and I know that the listenersare definitely ready and they
want to have these conversationsabout everyday life.
(20:32):
But we want to bring them up toanother level and be able to
really understand and talk aboutthings that people just are not
having conversations about.
So, again, thanks for checkingin.
Ps, it's human nature to wantto avoid the uncomfortable, yet
it's well, with inner abilityand capacity, to be able to
(20:53):
tackle these situations.
So thank you for checking in,mi goch.
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