March 11, 2025 • 39 mins
What does a meticulous career in criminal justice and violence prevention look like? Look no further than Lori Toscano.
In this episode of the Public Health Insight Podcast, Lori joins to share her initial ambition to become a grade 5 teacher to now a devoted career in community violence intervention. The conversation dives into the importance of data, community involvement, and the challenges Lori faced while trying to balance enforcement and support. The episode concludes with insights into her role at WestEd, her approaches to technical assistance, and her passion for violence prevention.
References for Our Discussion
◼️WestEd
Guest
Host(s) & Producer(s)
◼️ Gordon Thane, BMSc, MPH, PMP®
Production Notes
◼️ Music from Johnny Harris x Tom Fox: The Music Room
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Lori (00:00):
when you're in the work and you're constantly thinking
about where violence isclustering or this violent event
or, listening to your teams beon the front line and like being
in situations that are verydangerous where they are the
only folks that can kind of getin where no one else can, where
they have that credibility, theyhave that rapport.
But it's overwhelming, right?
you're just very hyper focusedon the work itself
Gordon (00:23):
from PHI Media, I'm Gordon Dane, and with me is
someone who's put together ameticulous career in criminal
justice and violence preventionthat serves as an inspiration.
Lori Toscano.
You're listening to the publichealth insight podcast, your
go-to space for all things,public health and global health
from the sustainable developmentgoals to the social determinants
(00:46):
of health, as well asinteresting dialogues about the
diverse career opportunitiesthat exist in these fields.
Remember to subscribe to thepodcast and leave us a rating on
apple podcasts and Spotify.
So other people like you canbenefit from our content.
At present day.
Lori makes a meaningful impactas a director of Justice
(01:07):
technical assistance at WestEdand is now a recognized national
expert in community violenceintervention.
And that's something that we'llspend a little time exploring,
but everybody has a story andI'm deeply interested in
exploring that.
Why do people make the careerdecisions they make?
What do they learn from theirexperiences?
And especially how they make animpact in community, when
(01:30):
sometimes it feels like our workis just a drop in the bucket.
Lori, welcome to the PublicHealth Insight Podcast.
Lori (01:39):
Thanks for having me, Gordon.
It's a pleasure to be here.
Gordon (01:41):
Awesome.
And so, Lori, I like to startoff this way.
And it's because I like tovisualize career journeys a bit
like a Google map.
and the reason I like it isbecause when you put in point A
to point B, you have twists,turns, you got closures on the
highway, you got traffic, yougot detours.
(02:02):
You never know what you're goingto expect.
So.
Let's put your career path downas if it was a Google map and go
back to the days of when you'rein high school Making those
critical choices about youanswering your parents about
hey, what do you want to beyou're having a lot of those
discussions and then you decideto enroll in the law enforcement
program at Towson UniversityWhat was the thinking behind
(02:26):
picking that specific program atthe time?
Lori (02:29):
Yeah, so it's actually interesting.
My entire life, all I wanted tobe was a teacher.
Gordon (02:34):
A teacher!
Lori (02:35):
that's it.
That was it.
Fifth grade because of the fifthgrade teacher I had.
Shout out to Mr.
Brush.
Um, that's all I wanted to, tobe was a teacher.
So I went to Towson and at thetime, this dates me, but at the
time it was Towson StateUniversity.
Gordon (02:48):
Mmm
Lori (02:49):
they were very well known for their, um, education degree.
So I was like, Oh, this isperfect for me.
Um, I had taken.
justice class in high school.
Gordon (03:00):
Hmm.
Okay.
Okay.
So why did you, you just, Ithought I'd take that.
It's interesting.
It wasn't.
Lori (03:09):
would take it because it was interesting.
Gordon (03:10):
Hmm.
Okay.
Lori (03:11):
think.
I can't remember, you know, whatthe impetus for it was, like,
what I had to select between,but for whatever reason, that's
Gordon (03:20):
was the one.
Lori (03:21):
out.
Yeah, yeah.
And I, I was really interestedin it, and I really enjoyed the
class.
But I went to Towson, thinking,I'm going to be a teacher,
Gordon (03:29):
Wow.
Lori (03:30):
Like, that's,
Gordon (03:30):
And did you have an idea of what you would teach at that
point too, or just at thatpoint, so multiple different
courses, subjects,
Lori (03:38):
100%.
I pictured myself like, dressingup for like the
Gordon (03:42):
Wow.
Did.
Wow.
Wow.
Lori (03:46):
reader, I love to read, so like how to make reading more
engaging, which is what my 5thgrade
Gordon (03:51):
Mm,
Lori (03:52):
So it was all these things that I had experienced and
really loved that I thought, I'mgoing to learn how to do
Gordon (03:58):
mm-hmm
Lori (03:58):
going to put my spin on it, this is what I'm going to do
for my career.
Gordon (04:03):
Okay.
Interesting.
Lori (04:05):
And I don't know what happened, to be quite honest,
because I switched freshmanyear.
So I never even got, like, oh,we're gonna take these upper
level
Gordon (04:15):
Mm-hmm
Lori (04:15):
that are, like, now towards teaching.
Gordon (04:18):
Mm-hmm
Lori (04:18):
Now something was, like, you know, I don't think that's
it for me.
And I think part of it was whenyou think about individuals that
have an elevated level of risk,right, whether that's risk for
involvement in violence or
Gordon (04:31):
Mm-hmm
Lori (04:32):
delinquency or whatever the case may be, Those are the
kids I really like, right?
Like, those are the kids I havea good time working with.
Those are the kids that I feellike I can connect with for
whatever reason.
Yeah, and so something was justlike, I think, I think I'm
interested in this.
At Towson, at the time, if Irecall correctly, and, you know,
dating myself, but I graduatedin 1996, I think?
Gordon (04:56):
Mm-hmm Mm-hmm
Lori (04:58):
there wasn't, it wasn't like a degree in criminal
justice, how it is now.
I don't know.
Gordon (05:02):
Okay.
Okay.
Lori (05:03):
was, a degree in law enforcement, no, a degree in
interdisciplinary studies with aconcentration in law
enforcement.
very big mouthful, and at thetime too, I knew that I was not
interested in going into lawenforcement.
I
Gordon (05:21):
Mm.
Mm-hmm
Lori (05:22):
route, so at the time it was, is it working for the
Department of Juvenile Services,is it working in, a placement
facility?
I really didn't know, it
Gordon (05:32):
Mm hmm.
Mm
Lori (05:33):
what we were learning was very interesting to
Gordon (05:36):
hmm.
Lori (05:36):
very, you know, engaged with it, so I was like, let's
see what happens with this,right?
Let's
Gordon (05:41):
Mm hmm.
Lori (05:42):
see where it goes.
Gordon (05:43):
So initially, when you said teacher, I was like, Oh,
wow, that's very far off whereyou ended up.
But when you broke it down with,you were like, I just want to
invest in young people.
Then I was able to then see theparallels between sort of going
in criminal justice and theteaching.
So I think there's someintertwined strings there.
(06:03):
So now when you finish yourbachelor's.
What was your first job afterthat?
Lori (06:08):
let's see, what was my first job after that?
When I was at Towson, I did aninternship
Gordon (06:14):
Mm
Lori (06:15):
of, I think at the time it was still referenced as the
Department of Juvenile Justice.
And the woman that I was,shadowing unfortunately fell
ill.
Gordon (06:24):
hmm Mm hmm.
Lori (06:26):
up seeing all of her.
Clients, all the kids that wereon probation
Gordon (06:31):
Wow.
Lori (06:32):
me, or I went to see them.
Gordon (06:34):
Wow.
Lori (06:35):
definitely very interesting.
I can't recall if that was myfirst, if when I left, no I
think I worked at, I worked at ajuvenile facility for boys.
Gordon (06:50):
Mm hmm Mm
Lori (06:52):
where they resided at
Gordon (06:54):
hmm.
Okay, okay
Lori (06:55):
think that there was a combination of youth that were
referred through the Departmentof Juvenile Justice, as well as
youth that might have beenunder, working with the
Department of Social Services.
Honestly, I was 18, I
Gordon (07:10):
Mm hmm
Lori (07:11):
I was 21, so I was 21,
Gordon (07:13):
Right
Lori (07:15):
As I said, I wasn't, you know, I wasn't like, oh, I'm
going to graduate and I'm going
Gordon (07:18):
Right, right, right
Lori (07:19):
and, you know, do all of that.
So it was kind of like, what'sout there?
You know,
Gordon (07:24):
So so you're doing this and you still weren't sure how
it would play out with with whatyou just knew you started from a
place of interest And weren'treally quite sure how you would
use and apply that knowledge andskill set.
Interesting.
Interesting.
Lori (07:37):
kind of like, let's try some things out and see, you
know, where, kind of where ittakes me.
Again, that was in the late 90s.
So, as my career advanced and Igot more into community violence
intervention, like, that wasn't,wasn't, you know,
Gordon (07:53):
Yeah, that wasn't a crystal ball master plan.
Yeah, yeah.
Lori (07:58):
connected to that at the time, so, being 21, recent, you
know, grad, I didn't reallyknow, and, and I don't have
anyone in my life that is alsoin this
Gordon (08:09):
Right, right, right, right.
Lori (08:11):
one in my family is in, like, has, has, does work in
anything that's kind of like,well, my
Gordon (08:16):
Right.
Lori (08:17):
but like, other than that, like, my friends were all doing
different things, whether thatwas education or business or
whatever, so it was kind oflike,
Gordon (08:26):
You're a lone pilot there.
Lori (08:27):
out there being like, what does this look like for, me, you
know, and, and what makes themost sense.
I think, I think I've always hadthis, or maybe it's, it's
happened as I've gotten older,you know, in this space
specifically and, you know, whenit comes to violence prevention
and intervention.
Jen.
It's really important that it'scommunity led and community
driven.
my role is how can I supportthat work and how can I be an
(08:50):
ally, I
Gordon (08:51):
Hmm.
Mm hmm.
Lori (08:53):
you know, getting to know each other, I'm very
uncomfortable in this kind of,of
Gordon (08:57):
Mm hmm.
Lori (08:58):
feel that I should be the face, the
Gordon (09:00):
Gotcha.
Gotcha.
Gotcha.
Lori (09:03):
want to lift up the work of everyone that I luckily get
to partner with and support.
Um, but it's always just like aweird space.
So even like going through mycareer, it was always, well, how
can I provide?
What do I have that I can likeadd to
Gordon (09:17):
hmm.
That's right.
Lori (09:19):
be of help and of
Gordon (09:20):
That's right.
That's right.
Lori (09:21):
not like, ta da, it's me and this is what I do.
It was
Gordon (09:25):
Mm.
Lori (09:26):
the work looks like and, and is there anything that I
have in my skill set or that Ibring to the table that can help
it in any way,
Gordon (09:35):
Mm hmm.
Mm
Lori (09:37):
to do it, right?
Like,
Gordon (09:38):
hmm.
Mm hmm.
Lori (09:42):
Imagining, like, I, I was always the person, like, putting
the chairs down at community
Gordon (09:46):
Ha ha.
Right, right, right, right.
Thank you.
Lori (09:48):
grill, or like,
Gordon (09:49):
You like to play a supportive role.
Gotcha.
Gotcha.
you talked about community levelviolence prevention.
And so that puts me in thesphere of talking about your
experience at the Baltimore cityhealth department.
You were there for about sevenyears.
So something must've kept youthere for seven years also.
(10:11):
It's a decent amount of time tospend at an organization.
So Tell us about what your rolelooked like there and how it
evolved.
'cause I know you had two, Ithink two different positions
there, so let's talk about that.
Lori (10:24):
At the time, I saw, an advertisement for the position,
which I think the first positionthat I was in was, I think it
was a community liaison.
Gordon (10:32):
Mm-hmm
Lori (10:32):
this was for, as you said, the Baltimore City Health
Department and it was with theirSafe Streets program.
And Safe Streets was the firstcure violence replication
outside of,, Chicago.
So I kind of did, you know, alittle bit of like research on
it, checking it out, and I waslike, this is really cool.
Like this is everything that Ihad done or like the work that I
(10:54):
had been doing.
Gordon (10:56):
Mm-hmm Mm-hmm
Lori (10:59):
even though, my goal was like, how can I support you,
youth that's on my caseload if Iwas a juvenile probation officer
or person, you know, youth thatI'm supporting in independent
living, right?
Like how can I support you?
But everything's still.
element of kind of enforcement,right?
Like
Gordon (11:18):
Okay.
Okay.
Lori (11:20):
probation, you're going to go to detention, or you continue
to, um, pick up new law charges,there's a
Gordon (11:28):
hmm.
Lori (11:29):
outside of your home, right?
Gordon (11:30):
Mm-hmm
Lori (11:33):
you, if you do these things, cool.
If you don't, then somethingnegative is going to happen to
you, right?
Like, If you engage in negativeactivities, something negative
is going to
Gordon (11:44):
It's a very punitive kind of approach, right?
Lori (11:47):
and, and, that's not my bag, right?
Like, that's, someone just saidto me in another situation, um,
we were talking about, uh, kindof doing an inventory of
violence prevention programs ina certain place.
And, and, were saying, like,what are the things that you
want to know about?
And the person said, I want toknow if you're more carrot or
(12:07):
you're more stick.
And I was like, ooh,
Gordon (12:10):
Hmm.
Hmm.
Right.
Lori (12:14):
So when, you know, when I saw the position available for
Steve Streets, I was like, I'll,I'll do whatever it takes to get
this.
And I
Gordon (12:23):
Hmm.
Lori (12:23):
interview being like, listen, I know.
That I have, you know, the levelof credibility.
I am not from community.
I'm
Gordon (12:31):
Hmm.
Hmm.
Lori (12:33):
I was here for school and stayed.
But, you know, I was still, youknow, didn't grow up in a
neighborhood in Baltimore.
Gordon (12:41):
right.
That's right.
Lori (12:42):
and so I just said, you know, I'll do whatever it
Gordon (12:48):
You really wanted that position.
Yeah.
Lori (12:51):
think there's value in it, I'll do whatever it takes.
And for whatever reason, theywere like, sure, let's give you
a shot.
Gordon (12:58):
You didn't give them a choice.
Lori (13:00):
I kind of didn't.
Um, yeah, and I'm really, thatis probably, in thinking about
that now, that was probably thebest career decision
Gordon (13:10):
Okay.
Lori (13:10):
ever made.
Like, just being reallytransparent and being like, I
Gordon (13:13):
Mm.
Lori (13:15):
right?
And recognizing everything.
Um, I didn't bring everything tothe table, right, that made
sense for that position.
Um, but I really cared about thework
Gordon (13:25):
Mm-hmm
Lori (13:26):
in what Baltimore was trying to do.
moving in this direction in thiscommunity violence intervention
work, that at the time wasrelatively, you know, grassroots
organization have always beendoing.
Gordon (13:36):
Mm-hmm Mm.
Lori (13:37):
I've always had the level of
Gordon (13:38):
Right.
Lori (13:38):
have always been, you know, trying to connect with
folks that they were, um, afraidwould be, get involved in
violence, either as a victim ora perpetrator.
So that was, it's been going onfor
Gordon (13:47):
Mm-hmm Mm-hmm
Lori (13:48):
we think of like the body of work, that Community Violence
Intervention, or CVI, right, isknown as, it was relatively new
to the masses.
Gordon (13:57):
Right, right.
Mm.
Lori (13:58):
a really big deal, right?
To like, to do it and do itwell, And to be a part of proof
that it works, right?
Gordon (14:10):
Mm-hmm
Lori (14:11):
so I started out by playing like a supporting role
where, had community basedorganizations that were running
safe streets for people.
sites, so Safe Streets East andSafe Streets
Gordon (14:22):
Okay.
Lori (14:23):
and, you know, specific organizations.
So supporting them whether it bein, helping out with the
training or the data collectionor documentation or creating a
flyer or, you
Gordon (14:34):
Right, right.
Lori (14:35):
out for a community
Gordon (14:36):
Right.
Mm
Lori (14:37):
you know, attending a march or a vigil if
unfortunately violence did occurin one of the target areas.
So that and then, became thedirector of the initiative.
At some point over the
Gordon (14:48):
hmm.
Mm hmm.
Mm hmm.
Mm hmm.
Mm hmm.
Mm
Lori (14:51):
So, got to, you know, play a bigger role in, in supporting
the work, at the city level.
So, you know, what could I do toensure that there was funding
available, to ensure that folksgot what they needed to be able
to do the work and do the workwell, um, you know, what was
the, what was the groundworkthat we could lay in terms of
the proof?
You know, could we, we ended upbeing evaluated by Johns
(15:12):
Hopkins, Daniel Webster at, atJohns Hopkins,
Gordon (15:14):
hmm.
Lori (15:15):
and his team.
So, it's like, you know, can webe a part of the evidence
showing that this can work?
So luckily I got to do that forseven years, which was great.
But then I think it was time to,you know, when you're in the
work, you're so close, you know,you're so close to it.
if you're at the city level, youmight be getting, calls, you
know, in the middle of the nightor pings on your
Gordon (15:36):
Mm
Lori (15:37):
remember if I had a pager at that
Gordon (15:39):
hmm.
Mm hmm.
Lori (15:40):
to that.
So who knows?
Gordon (15:41):
The price of leadership, I guess.
Mm hmm.
Mm hmm.
Mm
Lori (15:45):
it was like all of us, right?
And so when you're in the workand you're constantly thinking
about where violence isclustering or this violent event
or, you know, listening to yourteams be on the front line and
like being in situations thatare very dangerous where they
are the only folks that can kindof get in where no one else can,
(16:05):
where they have thatcredibility, they have that
rapport.
But it's overwhelming, right?
you're just very hyper focusedon, on the work itself.
and I feel like, too, withcommunity violence intervention
work, at the time, and I thinkthis is one of the, you know, I
think I, I try to be reallytransparent about what I did
well and what I didn't do well,
Gordon (16:24):
hmm.
Okay.
Yes, let's learn.
Lori (16:27):
I think there's some value in like, being honest about it.
I think towards the end of my,um, my stint in that position, I
was so hyper focused on the databecause I felt like the only way
for this to stick and like forother places in the country to
Gordon (16:45):
Mm hmm.
Lori (16:46):
of being able to do this work as well, focus on the data.
Like just,
Gordon (16:52):
Interesting.
Mm hmm.
Lori (16:55):
if, if there were two shootings this year, you know,
is it down 50 percent becausethere were four, like, just
very, very hyper focused
Gordon (17:02):
Mm hmm.
Mm hmm.
Lori (17:03):
part of it.
And I think there needed to be alot more focus on the people
part of it, in terms ofspecifically the staff, right?
Like, making sure that peoplewho were now being, continuously
being chronically exposed toviolence, you know, did they
have the
Gordon (17:18):
All right.
Lori (17:20):
Um, you know, did they have the training that they
needed?
Gordon (17:23):
Mm.
Lori (17:25):
shooting happened at 2am, you might have only been working
until 6pm that night and thenthey have to like get up and,
Gordon (17:32):
Mm.
Lori (17:33):
and try to prevent retaliation, right?
So I think that it, it, for meit was like, I feel like I've
done a good job in the, in thesupport for
Gordon (17:41):
Mm
Lori (17:42):
set is, but someone else needs
Gordon (17:44):
hmm.
Mm.
Mm.
All
Lori (17:47):
of really thinking about how to support staff in the way
that they should be supported.
Kind of being able to be in aplace where you don't have to
fight for the proof anymore,right?
Where you don't, like, I feltlike I was constantly at the
table like, no, no,
Gordon (18:02):
right.
Lori (18:03):
this is beneficial, this works, blah, blah,
Gordon (18:05):
Mm hmm.
Come with the numbers.
Right.
It's very, very outcome driven,like, and singular outcome.
Right, right.
Lori (18:12):
Very in defensive mode, to be honest.
Very like, have to prove thatthis works.
I feel like I'm constantlydefending the work, constantly
defending the value of thisbecause it was something
different, right?
So, I, I get it.
But, for me, I think it waslike, somebody else needed to
take it and be like, I don'thave to be in that mode anymore.
Like, we've been evaluated.
We've seen reductions inshootings and killings.
(18:33):
We know that this works.
You know, like, let us continueto grow and
Gordon (18:38):
Mm hmm.
Mm
Lori (18:38):
expand and troubleshoot and all
Gordon (18:42):
hmm.
Lori (18:42):
I think that was my time to be like,
Gordon (18:45):
To be
Lori (18:46):
everything that I've learned,
Gordon (18:48):
right.
Lori (18:50):
can people benefit from that?
Gordon (18:51):
Right, right, right.
Lori (18:52):
ended up working for Cure Violence Global, which was what
Safe Streets was based on, thatmodel.
Gordon (18:58):
Mm hmm.
Mm hmm.
Mm
Lori (18:58):
to say, let me tell you
Gordon (19:01):
hmm.
Lori (19:02):
like that I did not do well.
And if I had to do it overagain, this is what I would
Gordon (19:08):
Um,
Lori (19:10):
if we're thinking about operationalizing the work and
you're, you know, you're lookingat the data, well, If you're
doing, if your main focus is, Ineed to connect with individuals
at the highest level of risk andthen I can say in the
background, Ooh, let's look atthe data and see, are the days
and times where violence is
Gordon (19:28):
right, right, right.
Lori (19:30):
are the underlying factors that might be giving rise to
violence,
Gordon (19:33):
Um,
Lori (19:34):
historically look like in this community, and can we do
this, this together, because
Gordon (19:38):
right, right, right,
Lori (19:40):
but you're the
Gordon (19:41):
right,
Lori (19:41):
on your neighborhood, you're the
Gordon (19:43):
right.
Lori (19:43):
you know, what's happened historically.
So it was more of like, can Iuse my experiences
Gordon (19:49):
Um,
Lori (19:50):
people that were just getting started in the work.
Gordon (19:53):
right.
Lori (19:53):
you know, nationally, oftentimes the work was run
through a health department orthrough the mayor's office, so
it's like, can I talk to thefolks that are the me in those,
you know, what I had been inthose areas and be like, let me
tell you
Gordon (20:06):
Um,
Lori (20:08):
let me maybe give you some, some
Gordon (20:10):
right,
Lori (20:11):
to like, if I could do it all over again,
Gordon (20:14):
Sounds like you were able to shift data was sort of
an outcome thing.
And now you're using data toinform proactive actions, inform
collaborations, inform how youlook at risk and protective
factors more broadly than justdoes something work or it
doesn't work.
And it seems like you had abetter time living in that
space, but you also didsomething interesting.
(20:35):
During that time period, you didyour master's in that.
So what was the thinking behindthat?
Was it to fill a specificknowledge gap, or was it more
like, I want i'm seeing mycareer going on this trajectory
and I need to have a master's touh, a lot of people feel like
they have to have a master's orhigher level of education if
(20:56):
Feel respected feel listened towhat was the thinking behind why
you did it at that point?
Lori (21:00):
I think it was a little of both to be honest.
Um, I think because I didn'thave the same level of like
anxiety and stress, you know, asI was getting a little bit older
and getting like a little bit,um, more acclimated to the work.
I think it was like now, maybenow's the right time.
I also, um, felt like, you know,now I was, when I graduated from
(21:26):
Towson, I was 21.
Gordon (21:28):
Mm hmm.
Lori (21:30):
what did that education look like?
You know, I don't know if I justdon't have the best memory,
which I think is part of it,but, you know, I remember very
specific classes, but I don'tremember all of the, you know,
Gordon (21:44):
Mm hmm
Lori (21:45):
criminological theories and things like
Gordon (21:47):
Mm
Lori (21:47):
thought, you know, why don't we do this?
Why don't we take it to the nextlevel in terms of career as
well?
And it was a really coolexperience, because when you I
don't know if this is if thisis, like, this same thing for
everyone.
Gordon (22:00):
hmm Mm hmm
Lori (22:02):
first off, it's the like, only time in your life when you
can be competitive.
So it's like, oh, what'd you geton that, right?
Like, which is fun.
Gordon (22:09):
Yeah.
Lori (22:10):
but it was just also like, I was able to connect
Gordon (22:13):
Mm-hmm
Lori (22:14):
what I was learning, to the actual work that I had
either done, was doing, orhopefully wanted to do in the
Gordon (22:20):
Yep.
Lori (22:21):
Um, and I think that was a really cool space to be in, and
it was cool to see individualsthat had gone, you know,
straight to the masters programfrom undergrad who
Gordon (22:28):
Mm-hmm
Lori (22:29):
in the world of work yet or like not been in, in um, the
violence prevention or criminaljustice or whatever it was that
they were pursuing and to hearkind of, you know, their
thinking and their like, youknow, ideas around.
How to increase this, decreasethis, or like what this work
could look like.
So it was kind of, it was fun tobe in that space as well and see
(22:49):
folks that were just starting.
Gordon (22:51):
Yeah.
Yeah.
A good mix of, yeah.
Lori (22:52):
further in and be like, oh this is, you know,
Gordon (22:55):
I can relate to what you said.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You said about having hadexperience in going to school,
you're able to experience schoolin a different way.
I think there's something to besaid.
When you have that master'sexperience, a lot of people Are
of the belief that it's it'simportant to get work experience
after your bachelor's so thatyou can appreciate your master's
in a different Way, though,people still do it back to back
(23:17):
and it works, but it it givesyou a different perspective So
i'm glad that you acknowledgethat piece Now i'm looking at
the google map and it says we'vearrived at our destination in
terms of where you are now beingthe director of justice
technical assistance at west edYou So that's, that's where you
are now.
You've been there for a littlewhile too, as well.
Lori (23:37):
A little over three
Gordon (23:38):
Three, three weeks.
So tell me about the WestEdportfolio that you work in and
your work specifically in termsof violence prevention and
things of that nature.
Lori (23:49):
Um, it is so fun.
Gordon (23:52):
Hmm.
Fun.
That's a good word to use whenyou describe a job.
Lori (23:57):
I know, right?
And who
Gordon (23:58):
Yeah.
Right.
Lori (23:59):
of rare, right?
But it is.
It's really fun.
Working at WestEd, I think oneof the coolest things for me is,
um, I get to pursue work that Ireally care about, right?
And that, that I'm deeplyinvested in and that I can,
again, going back to this ideaof, like, You know, community
violence intervention, um, workin, specifically in the U.
(24:23):
S.
right now, it's amazing.
You know, it's amazing how farit's come.
There are amazing people doingamazing work within community,
on the front lines.
Gordon (24:33):
Right.
Lori (24:35):
the person to be like, let me go train these violence
interrupters.
I might have something to add,right,
Gordon (24:41):
Right, right.
Mm-hmm
Lori (24:43):
it's not me.
So, when I'm at WestEd andthey're like, well, you know,
what kind of work do you want topursue?
In my mind it's like, again, howcan I support the field?
Gordon (24:53):
Mm-hmm
Lori (24:54):
I don't need to be in competition with everybody that
I grew up with, you know, inthis field, because, you know,
They're the right people doingthe right work in the right way,
but how can I support it?
the portfolio that that me andmy team currently have probably
the, what we're most proud ofright now, and we're going to
(25:14):
talk about the violenceprevention navigation framework,
which is pretty much the coolestthing ever, but in terms of like
body of work, we have a projectwhere we're supporting all of
the grantees that are funded bythe Pennsylvania Commission on
Crime and Delinquency.
We, support all of theirviolence prevention and
(25:34):
intervention grantees withtechnical assistance.
So, we've built out this
Gordon (25:39):
Mm-hmm
Lori (25:40):
learning portal, which is my favorite thing that I've ever
created.
With the help of, of my team and
Gordon (25:46):
Mm-hmm
Lori (25:46):
folks in this space, it's an online learning portal.
There's tons of resources.
There's news.
Gordon (25:51):
Mm-hmm
Lori (25:52):
you know, there's a community page that lists every
organization that is fundedthrough the Pennsylvania
Commission on Crime andDelinquency, where they're
located, what their project is,
Gordon (26:03):
Mm
Lori (26:04):
you know, If I'm in Philadelphia and I'm doing
community violence interventionand I'm working with an
individual who needs workforcedevelopment, and that's not
something we do as anorganization, right at my
fingertips, I can just put inworkforce development,
Philadelphia.
And every funded project will bethere.
(26:24):
Now there'll be some gaps,right, because not everyone's
funded by
Gordon (26:27):
Right.
Right.
Lori (26:28):
do we continue to build and grow this network in
thinking about prevention,intervention, re entry, and
transformation and healing?
So we get to, you know, we'revery lucky that we're supporting
currently, I believe it'ssomewhere around 360 grantees
throughout the entireCommonwealth of Pennsylvania.
And we do a lot of one on onework with organizations, which
(26:49):
we lovingly refer to asintensive TA, but I don't, I
don't think it's such a goodname.
Right.
But it's, it's one on one,right?
Like we work with you one on oneand, you know, thinking about
being at WestEd and the body ofwork, I didn't want to do TA.
Gordon (27:05):
Mm-hmm
Lori (27:05):
assistance in the traditional ways, which is,
Gordon (27:08):
Okay.
Lori (27:09):
you know, a checklist, you know, or maybe some resources,
or it might be, again, goingback to like this idea of like
data being very important inthis, in this work,
Gordon (27:19):
Mm-hmm
Lori (27:21):
be pushing on data collection and data analysis.
I really wanted to be able towork in a way that said, you're
a community based organization,or you are a city department or
agency.
Um, you may be brand spankingnew, right?
Gordon (27:37):
Right, right.
Right.
Lori (27:38):
may be less than a year old.
Gordon (27:41):
Mm-hmm
Lori (27:42):
funding, you know, historically.
What is it that you want?
Right?
Do you want me to make you aflyer for something?
Or
Gordon (27:50):
Mm-hmm
Lori (27:50):
you want me to go through all of your documentation and
make recommendations around datacollection?
Or do you want to start talkingabout, you know, if you're in
community violence intervention,like operationalizing the work.
Where do you go?
When do you go?
Gordon (28:06):
Mm-hmm
Lori (28:06):
go?
Right?
And then how do you tell thestory of the work itself?
So it's letting folks, it's kindof
Gordon (28:11):
Mm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Tailored, customized, yeah.
Mm-hmm
Lori (28:17):
anything that folks want, you know, is what we hope to
provide them with.
And, and we've been doing that,I feel like that project is
about two ish, a little bit overtwo years old.
So folks, working with folksthat are doing like primary
prevention
Gordon (28:31):
Mm-hmm
Lori (28:32):
or positive youth development.
So it's like arts and sports andrecreation, as well as community
violence intervention andreentry.
Right?
So
Gordon (28:40):
Must be a wide variety of stuff going on in there when
I think about it.
Mm.
Lori (28:45):
it's really fun and you know, folks that are doing this
work are just amazing.
and anytime that you get tosupport what they're doing.
And, and anytime someone says,Oh, you know, that, really
helpful.
I'm like, Oh, that's so great.
So, our Pennsylvania project isprobably our largest project.
we also have another projectthat we're working on.
We're working with Pennsylvaniaon, which is, a federal award
(29:07):
called the Continuum of Care,where it's actually looking at,
what's, what type of system canyou build out to refer youth
back to community basedorganizations
Gordon (29:16):
Hmm
Lori (29:16):
they don't get deeper systems involvement,
Gordon (29:19):
mm Okay.
Okay.
Lori (29:20):
looking at all of the potential intercepts where you
could say, okay, if we, if weget you here,
Gordon (29:26):
Mm-hmm.
Lori (29:26):
connect you back to community instead of going into
Gordon (29:30):
Right?
Lori (29:31):
deeper, right?
Gordon (29:32):
Mm.
Lori (29:33):
fun project because that's also more of a planning where we
get to do the you know What doesthe data tell us and what are
people that are directlyimpacted tell us and what do
people that have had systems?
Involvement tell us if you it'sit's kind of this opportunity to
say if you could build thissystem would you build,
Gordon (29:51):
Mm-hmm.
Lori (29:52):
And it's kind of a fun way to be thinking about this work
because, you know, if the waythat we're tackling violence or
how we've done it historicallyis the only way, like,
Gordon (30:04):
Mm.
Lori (30:04):
be, right?
Gordon (30:05):
Right, right.
Right.
Lori (30:07):
to be all of these different for innovation, right?
And for, again, learning fromyour mistakes or tweaking
Gordon (30:13):
Absolutely.
Lori (30:14):
them, making sure that they fit the local context or
the cultural context.
you know, it's giving people theopportunity to really say, been
impacted or I've been connectedto this or I do work in that
space and if I could dream,
Gordon (30:30):
Mm.
Lori (30:31):
something with the sole intention of making sure that
youth get what they need withincommunity.
What does it look like?
So that's another, that's anexciting one to be connected to.
And then we work with, LocalInitiative Support Corporation,
Gordon (30:46):
Hmm.
Lori (30:46):
I S C.
They partner with us on ourPennsylvania project and we
partner with them.
They are a technical assistanceprovider for a federal award,
the
Gordon (30:55):
Hmm.
Okay.
Lori (30:56):
to Address So we are working with, several of those
sites that received that grantfunding
Gordon (31:04):
Okay.
Hmm.
Lori (31:05):
which again is really interesting because I am a
support person on two projectsthat are
Gordon (31:10):
Yeah.
Lori (31:11):
practices in schools, I get to listen to someone, that I
work with that's a subjectmatter in that and just be,
like, awed by all of it,
Gordon (31:18):
Hmm.
Lori (31:19):
see the work in action.
and then I work with anothergroup group in Atlanta that is
doing, their community basedorganization that is providing
mental health services andsupport within the schools.
get to work on that.
So, it's like a whole bunch of,of
Gordon (31:34):
Yeah, you get to dabble in, and even the, I like in
hearing you talk and see thepassion and excitement in being
able to dabble in.
So we walked away from like aoutcome as a sole focus to now
building theories to like If wewere to do this, this, and this,
what would that look like?
(31:54):
If we were to build this andthen build it and then see what
happens versus like, you havethis one thing and you have to
keep showing how it providesvalue and how it impacts, has a
positive impact.
So I really liked hearing howyou kind of brought that,
brought all your experiencestogether to like more of a, a
blanker canvas to be able tokind of dream about the
(32:16):
projects.
That you think would add valueand then your your ideal role
and how you describe it aboutI'm behind the scenes.
I support you to do your work.
I don't need to be Paraded outthere and be like the number one
expert in the country on cameraSo like so in a way it gives you
both best of both worlds
Lori (32:35):
Yeah.
And I think, you know, whenyou're in like a technical
assistance role or when you'rein kind of like this, you know,
a couple steps removed role, theone hand, you're sad, right,
Gordon (32:48):
Right, right Yeah,
Lori (32:51):
I love Baltimore, I've been here since 1996, or in
Maryland since 92, in Baltimoresince 96.
Um, and it's a little bit of alike, oh, I'm not, I'm not as
connected, you
Gordon (33:04):
that's right
Lori (33:05):
have friends that are in the space and they're doing
amazing work, but like,
Gordon (33:08):
And I can see it a little bit more.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Lori (33:11):
that's difficult, but there's also this, you know,
Getting this opportunity to belike, well, I can try things and
like, test them out for you, youknow, and see like, does this
make sense for you?
Like, would this be a good fit?
If I create this tool, right, orthis resource, will that be
helpful to you?
(33:31):
You don't have to spend money.
the time and energy spinningyour wheels because a lot of
times, like, again, we'retalking about people in this
space, specifically in communityviolence intervention, but
really in violence preventionand intervention as a whole,
that have to be hyper focused onproviding quality services to
individuals that are at whateverlevel of risk they are, right,
(33:54):
whether that is in theprevention space for kids that
might have a little bit of anelevated risk or Or for
individuals that are providingservices to folks that are at
highest risk for involvement.
A lot of times you have to keepyour head down and the blinders
on and be in the work.
Right?
Like, you don't have that luxuryof taking a step back and being
like, Oh, well what would makethis
Gordon (34:15):
Let's do some systems thinking.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Lori (34:18):
Because you're the only one that can do this, right?
Like, you
Gordon (34:21):
Right.
Lori (34:21):
set that no one else has.
You can get where others can't,you know.
You're doing one on one workwith youth and families.
So, in my mind, I'm like, Okay,what are the mistakes that I can
make on the, like, on behalf of,
Gordon (34:33):
There
Lori (34:36):
and that, if it is something of value, if someone
seems something that it's, ifsomeone thinks it's of value to
them, you go, you know.
Gordon (34:42):
you go.
All right.
So let's take a little break andtransition over to my, well, one
of my favorite parts of thepodcast and It's our rapid fire
segment.
You ready for that?
You ready for that?
All right.
So Lori, welcome to our rapidfire segment called insight
blitz, where I'll ask youquestions or read some brief
(35:03):
statements and I'll get yourbrief responses.
Ready?
Lori (35:08):
I think so.
Gordon (35:09):
Let's go into it.
What's a skill that you learnedearly in your career that you
still use today?
Lori (35:16):
I mean, I think it goes back to being able, being
willing to do whatever it takes.
Gordon (35:20):
Hmm.
Lori (35:21):
Right?
Like,
Gordon (35:23):
It's not about you type of.
yeah, yeah.
Lori (35:26):
I mean, I think when you're younger, it's a more
challenging
Gordon (35:30):
Hmm.
Hmm.
Lori (35:33):
my life, yeah.
Like, Just being willing to showup and say, Oh, yeah, again,
like you want me to fill thenapkin dispenser?
Cool, no
Gordon (35:43):
Hmm.
No egos there.
Hmm.
Yeah.
Do it with some flair.
What's a number fact orstatistic or any piece of
knowledge that drives home theurgency of Violence for you that
you would share with anyone whomaybe is a little bit about the
work
Lori (36:01):
Probably that gun violence is the number one cause of death
for, I believe it's individualsages one to 44, it might even be
Gordon (36:07):
1 to 44 49.
Wow
Lori (36:11):
and homicide is the leading cause of death for
children, for young adults,young men, pregnant women,
Gordon (36:17):
Oh, geez
Lori (36:19):
yeah,
Gordon (36:19):
Okay, that that was a couple and all equally
disturbing A hot take you haveabout Public health or the work
that you do
Lori (36:29):
I don't think that this is a hot take anymore, but that
violence is a public healthissue.
Gordon (36:34):
We're gonna talk a lot about that, okay, okay
Lori (36:37):
hot it is.
It's probably lukewarm at
Gordon (36:40):
First for some people Some people it's hot.
It's a hot take though.
I hear what you're saying, butsome people will push back
against that Lastly the worstpiece of advice you've ever
gotten
Lori (36:53):
the worst piece of advice
Gordon (36:54):
Mm hmm.
Not the best.
I switch it up on you the worst
Lori (36:59):
it's funny the thing that keeps coming up for me is fake
it till you make it but that'sactually really good
Gordon (37:03):
Right mm hmm.
Mm
Lori (37:04):
think it is really good advice to you know Especially,
yeah, yeah.
who has given me bad advice?
What was that bad advice?
Probably everything will beokay.
To be honest.
Because it isn't always, andthat's okay too.
Right?
I like power positive thinking.
Right?
Like, I like
Gordon (37:20):
All right, right
Lori (37:22):
I like having hope, right?
And I think on a, on a bigscale, heck yeah, everything's
gonna be alright.
But I think it's also okay tosay, everything is currently on
fire, that situation is, andlet's, let's focus on this, like
I don't have to be like, buteverything will be alright in
Gordon (37:41):
It doesn't have to be right, right.
Okay.
Right.
And we can be okay witheverything not being okay.
Okay.
A little narrative shift there.
Lori (37:52):
accepting of it for now with the idea of
Gordon (37:56):
Trying to do something about it.
Okay.
All right.
That's all good.
I'll take that.
I'll steal that one.
So that brings us to the end ofour insight bliss segment.
Hopefully I didn't scare youaway and you'll stick with me
for the rest of the episode.
Yeah.
We're doing okay.
All right.
Okay.
Awesome.
So now let's get into the meatof the subject here.
(38:17):
This show was edited by me,gordon thing.
With additional editing fromLeshaun Benedict.
Sound design and mixing bymyself and Leshaun Bennet.
The original music.
From the music room.
Composed by Tom Fox, licensedfrom Johnny Harris.
The cover art designed for ourshow by Leshaun Bennet.
(38:38):
The public health insightpodcast is produced by Phi media
Thank you for listening to thepublic health insight.
Your go-to space for informativeconversations, inspiring
community action.
If you enjoy our podcast, besure to subscribe and leave us a
rating on apple podcasts orSpotify.
See you in the next one.
when you're in the work and you're constantly thinking
about where violence isclustering or this violent event
or, listening to your teams beon the front line and like being
in situations that are verydangerous where they are the
only folks that can kind of getin where no one else can, where
they have that credibility, theyhave that rapport.
But it's overwhelming, right?
you're just very hyper focusedon the work itself
Gordon (00:23):
from PHI Media, I'm Gordon Dane, and with me is
someone who's put together ameticulous career in criminal
justice and violence preventionthat serves as an inspiration.
Lori Toscano.
You're listening to the publichealth insight podcast, your
go-to space for all things,public health and global health
from the sustainable developmentgoals to the social determinants
(00:46):
of health, as well asinteresting dialogues about the
diverse career opportunitiesthat exist in these fields.
Remember to subscribe to thepodcast and leave us a rating on
apple podcasts and Spotify.
So other people like you canbenefit from our content.
At present day.
Lori makes a meaningful impactas a director of Justice
(01:07):
technical assistance at WestEdand is now a recognized national
expert in community violenceintervention.
And that's something that we'llspend a little time exploring,
but everybody has a story andI'm deeply interested in
exploring that.
Why do people make the careerdecisions they make?
What do they learn from theirexperiences?
And especially how they make animpact in community, when
(01:30):
sometimes it feels like our workis just a drop in the bucket.
Lori, welcome to the PublicHealth Insight Podcast.
Lori (01:39):
Thanks for having me, Gordon.
It's a pleasure to be here.
Gordon (01:41):
Awesome.
And so, Lori, I like to startoff this way.
And it's because I like tovisualize career journeys a bit
like a Google map.
and the reason I like it isbecause when you put in point A
to point B, you have twists,turns, you got closures on the
highway, you got traffic, yougot detours.
(02:02):
You never know what you're goingto expect.
So.
Let's put your career path downas if it was a Google map and go
back to the days of when you'rein high school Making those
critical choices about youanswering your parents about
hey, what do you want to beyou're having a lot of those
discussions and then you decideto enroll in the law enforcement
program at Towson UniversityWhat was the thinking behind
(02:26):
picking that specific program atthe time?
Lori (02:29):
Yeah, so it's actually interesting.
My entire life, all I wanted tobe was a teacher.
Gordon (02:34):
A teacher!
Lori (02:35):
that's it.
That was it.
Fifth grade because of the fifthgrade teacher I had.
Shout out to Mr.
Brush.
Um, that's all I wanted to, tobe was a teacher.
So I went to Towson and at thetime, this dates me, but at the
time it was Towson StateUniversity.
Gordon (02:48):
Mmm
Lori (02:49):
they were very well known for their, um, education degree.
So I was like, Oh, this isperfect for me.
Um, I had taken.
justice class in high school.
Gordon (03:00):
Hmm.
Okay.
Okay.
So why did you, you just, Ithought I'd take that.
It's interesting.
It wasn't.
Lori (03:09):
would take it because it was interesting.
Gordon (03:10):
Hmm.
Okay.
Lori (03:11):
think.
I can't remember, you know, whatthe impetus for it was, like,
what I had to select between,but for whatever reason, that's
Gordon (03:20):
was the one.
Lori (03:21):
out.
Yeah, yeah.
And I, I was really interestedin it, and I really enjoyed the
class.
But I went to Towson, thinking,I'm going to be a teacher,
Gordon (03:29):
Wow.
Lori (03:30):
Like, that's,
Gordon (03:30):
And did you have an idea of what you would teach at that
point too, or just at thatpoint, so multiple different
courses, subjects,
Lori (03:38):
100%.
I pictured myself like, dressingup for like the
Gordon (03:42):
Wow.
Did.
Wow.
Wow.
Lori (03:46):
reader, I love to read, so like how to make reading more
engaging, which is what my 5thgrade
Gordon (03:51):
Mm,
Lori (03:52):
So it was all these things that I had experienced and
really loved that I thought, I'mgoing to learn how to do
Gordon (03:58):
mm-hmm
Lori (03:58):
going to put my spin on it, this is what I'm going to do
for my career.
Gordon (04:03):
Okay.
Interesting.
Lori (04:05):
And I don't know what happened, to be quite honest,
because I switched freshmanyear.
So I never even got, like, oh,we're gonna take these upper
level
Gordon (04:15):
Mm-hmm
Lori (04:15):
that are, like, now towards teaching.
Gordon (04:18):
Mm-hmm
Lori (04:18):
Now something was, like, you know, I don't think that's
it for me.
And I think part of it was whenyou think about individuals that
have an elevated level of risk,right, whether that's risk for
involvement in violence or
Gordon (04:31):
Mm-hmm
Lori (04:32):
delinquency or whatever the case may be, Those are the
kids I really like, right?
Like, those are the kids I havea good time working with.
Those are the kids that I feellike I can connect with for
whatever reason.
Yeah, and so something was justlike, I think, I think I'm
interested in this.
At Towson, at the time, if Irecall correctly, and, you know,
dating myself, but I graduatedin 1996, I think?
Gordon (04:56):
Mm-hmm Mm-hmm
Lori (04:58):
there wasn't, it wasn't like a degree in criminal
justice, how it is now.
I don't know.
Gordon (05:02):
Okay.
Okay.
Lori (05:03):
was, a degree in law enforcement, no, a degree in
interdisciplinary studies with aconcentration in law
enforcement.
very big mouthful, and at thetime too, I knew that I was not
interested in going into lawenforcement.
I
Gordon (05:21):
Mm.
Mm-hmm
Lori (05:22):
route, so at the time it was, is it working for the
Department of Juvenile Services,is it working in, a placement
facility?
I really didn't know, it
Gordon (05:32):
Mm hmm.
Mm
Lori (05:33):
what we were learning was very interesting to
Gordon (05:36):
hmm.
Lori (05:36):
very, you know, engaged with it, so I was like, let's
see what happens with this,right?
Let's
Gordon (05:41):
Mm hmm.
Lori (05:42):
see where it goes.
Gordon (05:43):
So initially, when you said teacher, I was like, Oh,
wow, that's very far off whereyou ended up.
But when you broke it down with,you were like, I just want to
invest in young people.
Then I was able to then see theparallels between sort of going
in criminal justice and theteaching.
So I think there's someintertwined strings there.
(06:03):
So now when you finish yourbachelor's.
What was your first job afterthat?
Lori (06:08):
let's see, what was my first job after that?
When I was at Towson, I did aninternship
Gordon (06:14):
Mm
Lori (06:15):
of, I think at the time it was still referenced as the
Department of Juvenile Justice.
And the woman that I was,shadowing unfortunately fell
ill.
Gordon (06:24):
hmm Mm hmm.
Lori (06:26):
up seeing all of her.
Clients, all the kids that wereon probation
Gordon (06:31):
Wow.
Lori (06:32):
me, or I went to see them.
Gordon (06:34):
Wow.
Lori (06:35):
definitely very interesting.
I can't recall if that was myfirst, if when I left, no I
think I worked at, I worked at ajuvenile facility for boys.
Gordon (06:50):
Mm hmm Mm
Lori (06:52):
where they resided at
Gordon (06:54):
hmm.
Okay, okay
Lori (06:55):
think that there was a combination of youth that were
referred through the Departmentof Juvenile Justice, as well as
youth that might have beenunder, working with the
Department of Social Services.
Honestly, I was 18, I
Gordon (07:10):
Mm hmm
Lori (07:11):
I was 21, so I was 21,
Gordon (07:13):
Right
Lori (07:15):
As I said, I wasn't, you know, I wasn't like, oh, I'm
going to graduate and I'm going
Gordon (07:18):
Right, right, right
Lori (07:19):
and, you know, do all of that.
So it was kind of like, what'sout there?
You know,
Gordon (07:24):
So so you're doing this and you still weren't sure how
it would play out with with whatyou just knew you started from a
place of interest And weren'treally quite sure how you would
use and apply that knowledge andskill set.
Interesting.
Interesting.
Lori (07:37):
kind of like, let's try some things out and see, you
know, where, kind of where ittakes me.
Again, that was in the late 90s.
So, as my career advanced and Igot more into community violence
intervention, like, that wasn't,wasn't, you know,
Gordon (07:53):
Yeah, that wasn't a crystal ball master plan.
Yeah, yeah.
Lori (07:58):
connected to that at the time, so, being 21, recent, you
know, grad, I didn't reallyknow, and, and I don't have
anyone in my life that is alsoin this
Gordon (08:09):
Right, right, right, right.
Lori (08:11):
one in my family is in, like, has, has, does work in
anything that's kind of like,well, my
Gordon (08:16):
Right.
Lori (08:17):
but like, other than that, like, my friends were all doing
different things, whether thatwas education or business or
whatever, so it was kind oflike,
Gordon (08:26):
You're a lone pilot there.
Lori (08:27):
out there being like, what does this look like for, me, you
know, and, and what makes themost sense.
I think, I think I've always hadthis, or maybe it's, it's
happened as I've gotten older,you know, in this space
specifically and, you know, whenit comes to violence prevention
and intervention.
Jen.
It's really important that it'scommunity led and community
driven.
my role is how can I supportthat work and how can I be an
(08:50):
ally, I
Gordon (08:51):
Hmm.
Mm hmm.
Lori (08:53):
you know, getting to know each other, I'm very
uncomfortable in this kind of,of
Gordon (08:57):
Mm hmm.
Lori (08:58):
feel that I should be the face, the
Gordon (09:00):
Gotcha.
Gotcha.
Gotcha.
Lori (09:03):
want to lift up the work of everyone that I luckily get
to partner with and support.
Um, but it's always just like aweird space.
So even like going through mycareer, it was always, well, how
can I provide?
What do I have that I can likeadd to
Gordon (09:17):
hmm.
That's right.
Lori (09:19):
be of help and of
Gordon (09:20):
That's right.
That's right.
Lori (09:21):
not like, ta da, it's me and this is what I do.
It was
Gordon (09:25):
Mm.
Lori (09:26):
the work looks like and, and is there anything that I
have in my skill set or that Ibring to the table that can help
it in any way,
Gordon (09:35):
Mm hmm.
Mm
Lori (09:37):
to do it, right?
Like,
Gordon (09:38):
hmm.
Mm hmm.
Lori (09:42):
Imagining, like, I, I was always the person, like, putting
the chairs down at community
Gordon (09:46):
Ha ha.
Right, right, right, right.
Thank you.
Lori (09:48):
grill, or like,
Gordon (09:49):
You like to play a supportive role.
Gotcha.
Gotcha.
you talked about community levelviolence prevention.
And so that puts me in thesphere of talking about your
experience at the Baltimore cityhealth department.
You were there for about sevenyears.
So something must've kept youthere for seven years also.
(10:11):
It's a decent amount of time tospend at an organization.
So Tell us about what your rolelooked like there and how it
evolved.
'cause I know you had two, Ithink two different positions
there, so let's talk about that.
Lori (10:24):
At the time, I saw, an advertisement for the position,
which I think the first positionthat I was in was, I think it
was a community liaison.
Gordon (10:32):
Mm-hmm
Lori (10:32):
this was for, as you said, the Baltimore City Health
Department and it was with theirSafe Streets program.
And Safe Streets was the firstcure violence replication
outside of,, Chicago.
So I kind of did, you know, alittle bit of like research on
it, checking it out, and I waslike, this is really cool.
Like this is everything that Ihad done or like the work that I
(10:54):
had been doing.
Gordon (10:56):
Mm-hmm Mm-hmm
Lori (10:59):
even though, my goal was like, how can I support you,
youth that's on my caseload if Iwas a juvenile probation officer
or person, you know, youth thatI'm supporting in independent
living, right?
Like how can I support you?
But everything's still.
element of kind of enforcement,right?
Like
Gordon (11:18):
Okay.
Okay.
Lori (11:20):
probation, you're going to go to detention, or you continue
to, um, pick up new law charges,there's a
Gordon (11:28):
hmm.
Lori (11:29):
outside of your home, right?
Gordon (11:30):
Mm-hmm
Lori (11:33):
you, if you do these things, cool.
If you don't, then somethingnegative is going to happen to
you, right?
Like, If you engage in negativeactivities, something negative
is going to
Gordon (11:44):
It's a very punitive kind of approach, right?
Lori (11:47):
and, and, that's not my bag, right?
Like, that's, someone just saidto me in another situation, um,
we were talking about, uh, kindof doing an inventory of
violence prevention programs ina certain place.
And, and, were saying, like,what are the things that you
want to know about?
And the person said, I want toknow if you're more carrot or
(12:07):
you're more stick.
And I was like, ooh,
Gordon (12:10):
Hmm.
Hmm.
Right.
Lori (12:14):
So when, you know, when I saw the position available for
Steve Streets, I was like, I'll,I'll do whatever it takes to get
this.
And I
Gordon (12:23):
Hmm.
Lori (12:23):
interview being like, listen, I know.
That I have, you know, the levelof credibility.
I am not from community.
I'm
Gordon (12:31):
Hmm.
Hmm.
Lori (12:33):
I was here for school and stayed.
But, you know, I was still, youknow, didn't grow up in a
neighborhood in Baltimore.
Gordon (12:41):
right.
That's right.
Lori (12:42):
and so I just said, you know, I'll do whatever it
Gordon (12:48):
You really wanted that position.
Yeah.
Lori (12:51):
think there's value in it, I'll do whatever it takes.
And for whatever reason, theywere like, sure, let's give you
a shot.
Gordon (12:58):
You didn't give them a choice.
Lori (13:00):
I kind of didn't.
Um, yeah, and I'm really, thatis probably, in thinking about
that now, that was probably thebest career decision
Gordon (13:10):
Okay.
Lori (13:10):
ever made.
Like, just being reallytransparent and being like, I
Gordon (13:13):
Mm.
Lori (13:15):
right?
And recognizing everything.
Um, I didn't bring everything tothe table, right, that made
sense for that position.
Um, but I really cared about thework
Gordon (13:25):
Mm-hmm
Lori (13:26):
in what Baltimore was trying to do.
moving in this direction in thiscommunity violence intervention
work, that at the time wasrelatively, you know, grassroots
organization have always beendoing.
Gordon (13:36):
Mm-hmm Mm.
Lori (13:37):
I've always had the level of
Gordon (13:38):
Right.
Lori (13:38):
have always been, you know, trying to connect with
folks that they were, um, afraidwould be, get involved in
violence, either as a victim ora perpetrator.
So that was, it's been going onfor
Gordon (13:47):
Mm-hmm Mm-hmm
Lori (13:48):
we think of like the body of work, that Community Violence
Intervention, or CVI, right, isknown as, it was relatively new
to the masses.
Gordon (13:57):
Right, right.
Mm.
Lori (13:58):
a really big deal, right?
To like, to do it and do itwell, And to be a part of proof
that it works, right?
Gordon (14:10):
Mm-hmm
Lori (14:11):
so I started out by playing like a supporting role
where, had community basedorganizations that were running
safe streets for people.
sites, so Safe Streets East andSafe Streets
Gordon (14:22):
Okay.
Lori (14:23):
and, you know, specific organizations.
So supporting them whether it bein, helping out with the
training or the data collectionor documentation or creating a
flyer or, you
Gordon (14:34):
Right, right.
Lori (14:35):
out for a community
Gordon (14:36):
Right.
Mm
Lori (14:37):
you know, attending a march or a vigil if
unfortunately violence did occurin one of the target areas.
So that and then, became thedirector of the initiative.
At some point over the
Gordon (14:48):
hmm.
Mm hmm.
Mm hmm.
Mm hmm.
Mm hmm.
Mm
Lori (14:51):
So, got to, you know, play a bigger role in, in supporting
the work, at the city level.
So, you know, what could I do toensure that there was funding
available, to ensure that folksgot what they needed to be able
to do the work and do the workwell, um, you know, what was
the, what was the groundworkthat we could lay in terms of
the proof?
You know, could we, we ended upbeing evaluated by Johns
(15:12):
Hopkins, Daniel Webster at, atJohns Hopkins,
Gordon (15:14):
hmm.
Lori (15:15):
and his team.
So, it's like, you know, can webe a part of the evidence
showing that this can work?
So luckily I got to do that forseven years, which was great.
But then I think it was time to,you know, when you're in the
work, you're so close, you know,you're so close to it.
if you're at the city level, youmight be getting, calls, you
know, in the middle of the nightor pings on your
Gordon (15:36):
Mm
Lori (15:37):
remember if I had a pager at that
Gordon (15:39):
hmm.
Mm hmm.
Lori (15:40):
to that.
So who knows?
Gordon (15:41):
The price of leadership, I guess.
Mm hmm.
Mm hmm.
Mm
Lori (15:45):
it was like all of us, right?
And so when you're in the workand you're constantly thinking
about where violence isclustering or this violent event
or, you know, listening to yourteams be on the front line and
like being in situations thatare very dangerous where they
are the only folks that can kindof get in where no one else can,
(16:05):
where they have thatcredibility, they have that
rapport.
But it's overwhelming, right?
you're just very hyper focusedon, on the work itself.
and I feel like, too, withcommunity violence intervention
work, at the time, and I thinkthis is one of the, you know, I
think I, I try to be reallytransparent about what I did
well and what I didn't do well,
Gordon (16:24):
hmm.
Okay.
Yes, let's learn.
Lori (16:27):
I think there's some value in like, being honest about it.
I think towards the end of my,um, my stint in that position, I
was so hyper focused on the databecause I felt like the only way
for this to stick and like forother places in the country to
Gordon (16:45):
Mm hmm.
Lori (16:46):
of being able to do this work as well, focus on the data.
Like just,
Gordon (16:52):
Interesting.
Mm hmm.
Lori (16:55):
if, if there were two shootings this year, you know,
is it down 50 percent becausethere were four, like, just
very, very hyper focused
Gordon (17:02):
Mm hmm.
Mm hmm.
Lori (17:03):
part of it.
And I think there needed to be alot more focus on the people
part of it, in terms ofspecifically the staff, right?
Like, making sure that peoplewho were now being, continuously
being chronically exposed toviolence, you know, did they
have the
Gordon (17:18):
All right.
Lori (17:20):
Um, you know, did they have the training that they
needed?
Gordon (17:23):
Mm.
Lori (17:25):
shooting happened at 2am, you might have only been working
until 6pm that night and thenthey have to like get up and,
Gordon (17:32):
Mm.
Lori (17:33):
and try to prevent retaliation, right?
So I think that it, it, for meit was like, I feel like I've
done a good job in the, in thesupport for
Gordon (17:41):
Mm
Lori (17:42):
set is, but someone else needs
Gordon (17:44):
hmm.
Mm.
Mm.
All
Lori (17:47):
of really thinking about how to support staff in the way
that they should be supported.
Kind of being able to be in aplace where you don't have to
fight for the proof anymore,right?
Where you don't, like, I feltlike I was constantly at the
table like, no, no,
Gordon (18:02):
right.
Lori (18:03):
this is beneficial, this works, blah, blah,
Gordon (18:05):
Mm hmm.
Come with the numbers.
Right.
It's very, very outcome driven,like, and singular outcome.
Right, right.
Lori (18:12):
Very in defensive mode, to be honest.
Very like, have to prove thatthis works.
I feel like I'm constantlydefending the work, constantly
defending the value of thisbecause it was something
different, right?
So, I, I get it.
But, for me, I think it waslike, somebody else needed to
take it and be like, I don'thave to be in that mode anymore.
Like, we've been evaluated.
We've seen reductions inshootings and killings.
(18:33):
We know that this works.
You know, like, let us continueto grow and
Gordon (18:38):
Mm hmm.
Mm
Lori (18:38):
expand and troubleshoot and all
Gordon (18:42):
hmm.
Lori (18:42):
I think that was my time to be like,
Gordon (18:45):
To be
Lori (18:46):
everything that I've learned,
Gordon (18:48):
right.
Lori (18:50):
can people benefit from that?
Gordon (18:51):
Right, right, right.
Lori (18:52):
ended up working for Cure Violence Global, which was what
Safe Streets was based on, thatmodel.
Gordon (18:58):
Mm hmm.
Mm hmm.
Mm
Lori (18:58):
to say, let me tell you
Gordon (19:01):
hmm.
Lori (19:02):
like that I did not do well.
And if I had to do it overagain, this is what I would
Gordon (19:08):
Um,
Lori (19:10):
if we're thinking about operationalizing the work and
you're, you know, you're lookingat the data, well, If you're
doing, if your main focus is, Ineed to connect with individuals
at the highest level of risk andthen I can say in the
background, Ooh, let's look atthe data and see, are the days
and times where violence is
Gordon (19:28):
right, right, right.
Lori (19:30):
are the underlying factors that might be giving rise to
violence,
Gordon (19:33):
Um,
Lori (19:34):
historically look like in this community, and can we do
this, this together, because
Gordon (19:38):
right, right, right,
Lori (19:40):
but you're the
Gordon (19:41):
right,
Lori (19:41):
on your neighborhood, you're the
Gordon (19:43):
right.
Lori (19:43):
you know, what's happened historically.
So it was more of like, can Iuse my experiences
Gordon (19:49):
Um,
Lori (19:50):
people that were just getting started in the work.
Gordon (19:53):
right.
Lori (19:53):
you know, nationally, oftentimes the work was run
through a health department orthrough the mayor's office, so
it's like, can I talk to thefolks that are the me in those,
you know, what I had been inthose areas and be like, let me
tell you
Gordon (20:06):
Um,
Lori (20:08):
let me maybe give you some, some
Gordon (20:10):
right,
Lori (20:11):
to like, if I could do it all over again,
Gordon (20:14):
Sounds like you were able to shift data was sort of
an outcome thing.
And now you're using data toinform proactive actions, inform
collaborations, inform how youlook at risk and protective
factors more broadly than justdoes something work or it
doesn't work.
And it seems like you had abetter time living in that
space, but you also didsomething interesting.
(20:35):
During that time period, you didyour master's in that.
So what was the thinking behindthat?
Was it to fill a specificknowledge gap, or was it more
like, I want i'm seeing mycareer going on this trajectory
and I need to have a master's touh, a lot of people feel like
they have to have a master's orhigher level of education if
(20:56):
Feel respected feel listened towhat was the thinking behind why
you did it at that point?
Lori (21:00):
I think it was a little of both to be honest.
Um, I think because I didn'thave the same level of like
anxiety and stress, you know, asI was getting a little bit older
and getting like a little bit,um, more acclimated to the work.
I think it was like now, maybenow's the right time.
I also, um, felt like, you know,now I was, when I graduated from
(21:26):
Towson, I was 21.
Gordon (21:28):
Mm hmm.
Lori (21:30):
what did that education look like?
You know, I don't know if I justdon't have the best memory,
which I think is part of it,but, you know, I remember very
specific classes, but I don'tremember all of the, you know,
Gordon (21:44):
Mm hmm
Lori (21:45):
criminological theories and things like
Gordon (21:47):
Mm
Lori (21:47):
thought, you know, why don't we do this?
Why don't we take it to the nextlevel in terms of career as
well?
And it was a really coolexperience, because when you I
don't know if this is if thisis, like, this same thing for
everyone.
Gordon (22:00):
hmm Mm hmm
Lori (22:02):
first off, it's the like, only time in your life when you
can be competitive.
So it's like, oh, what'd you geton that, right?
Like, which is fun.
Gordon (22:09):
Yeah.
Lori (22:10):
but it was just also like, I was able to connect
Gordon (22:13):
Mm-hmm
Lori (22:14):
what I was learning, to the actual work that I had
either done, was doing, orhopefully wanted to do in the
Gordon (22:20):
Yep.
Lori (22:21):
Um, and I think that was a really cool space to be in, and
it was cool to see individualsthat had gone, you know,
straight to the masters programfrom undergrad who
Gordon (22:28):
Mm-hmm
Lori (22:29):
in the world of work yet or like not been in, in um, the
violence prevention or criminaljustice or whatever it was that
they were pursuing and to hearkind of, you know, their
thinking and their like, youknow, ideas around.
How to increase this, decreasethis, or like what this work
could look like.
So it was kind of, it was fun tobe in that space as well and see
(22:49):
folks that were just starting.
Gordon (22:51):
Yeah.
Yeah.
A good mix of, yeah.
Lori (22:52):
further in and be like, oh this is, you know,
Gordon (22:55):
I can relate to what you said.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You said about having hadexperience in going to school,
you're able to experience schoolin a different way.
I think there's something to besaid.
When you have that master'sexperience, a lot of people Are
of the belief that it's it'simportant to get work experience
after your bachelor's so thatyou can appreciate your master's
in a different Way, though,people still do it back to back
(23:17):
and it works, but it it givesyou a different perspective So
i'm glad that you acknowledgethat piece Now i'm looking at
the google map and it says we'vearrived at our destination in
terms of where you are now beingthe director of justice
technical assistance at west edYou So that's, that's where you
are now.
You've been there for a littlewhile too, as well.
Lori (23:37):
A little over three
Gordon (23:38):
Three, three weeks.
So tell me about the WestEdportfolio that you work in and
your work specifically in termsof violence prevention and
things of that nature.
Lori (23:49):
Um, it is so fun.
Gordon (23:52):
Hmm.
Fun.
That's a good word to use whenyou describe a job.
Lori (23:57):
I know, right?
And who
Gordon (23:58):
Yeah.
Right.
Lori (23:59):
of rare, right?
But it is.
It's really fun.
Working at WestEd, I think oneof the coolest things for me is,
um, I get to pursue work that Ireally care about, right?
And that, that I'm deeplyinvested in and that I can,
again, going back to this ideaof, like, You know, community
violence intervention, um, workin, specifically in the U.
(24:23):
S.
right now, it's amazing.
You know, it's amazing how farit's come.
There are amazing people doingamazing work within community,
on the front lines.
Gordon (24:33):
Right.
Lori (24:35):
the person to be like, let me go train these violence
interrupters.
I might have something to add,right,
Gordon (24:41):
Right, right.
Mm-hmm
Lori (24:43):
it's not me.
So, when I'm at WestEd andthey're like, well, you know,
what kind of work do you want topursue?
In my mind it's like, again, howcan I support the field?
Gordon (24:53):
Mm-hmm
Lori (24:54):
I don't need to be in competition with everybody that
I grew up with, you know, inthis field, because, you know,
They're the right people doingthe right work in the right way,
but how can I support it?
the portfolio that that me andmy team currently have probably
the, what we're most proud ofright now, and we're going to
(25:14):
talk about the violenceprevention navigation framework,
which is pretty much the coolestthing ever, but in terms of like
body of work, we have a projectwhere we're supporting all of
the grantees that are funded bythe Pennsylvania Commission on
Crime and Delinquency.
We, support all of theirviolence prevention and
(25:34):
intervention grantees withtechnical assistance.
So, we've built out this
Gordon (25:39):
Mm-hmm
Lori (25:40):
learning portal, which is my favorite thing that I've ever
created.
With the help of, of my team and
Gordon (25:46):
Mm-hmm
Lori (25:46):
folks in this space, it's an online learning portal.
There's tons of resources.
There's news.
Gordon (25:51):
Mm-hmm
Lori (25:52):
you know, there's a community page that lists every
organization that is fundedthrough the Pennsylvania
Commission on Crime andDelinquency, where they're
located, what their project is,
Gordon (26:03):
Mm
Lori (26:04):
you know, If I'm in Philadelphia and I'm doing
community violence interventionand I'm working with an
individual who needs workforcedevelopment, and that's not
something we do as anorganization, right at my
fingertips, I can just put inworkforce development,
Philadelphia.
And every funded project will bethere.
(26:24):
Now there'll be some gaps,right, because not everyone's
funded by
Gordon (26:27):
Right.
Right.
Lori (26:28):
do we continue to build and grow this network in
thinking about prevention,intervention, re entry, and
transformation and healing?
So we get to, you know, we'revery lucky that we're supporting
currently, I believe it'ssomewhere around 360 grantees
throughout the entireCommonwealth of Pennsylvania.
And we do a lot of one on onework with organizations, which
(26:49):
we lovingly refer to asintensive TA, but I don't, I
don't think it's such a goodname.
Right.
But it's, it's one on one,right?
Like we work with you one on oneand, you know, thinking about
being at WestEd and the body ofwork, I didn't want to do TA.
Gordon (27:05):
Mm-hmm
Lori (27:05):
assistance in the traditional ways, which is,
Gordon (27:08):
Okay.
Lori (27:09):
you know, a checklist, you know, or maybe some resources,
or it might be, again, goingback to like this idea of like
data being very important inthis, in this work,
Gordon (27:19):
Mm-hmm
Lori (27:21):
be pushing on data collection and data analysis.
I really wanted to be able towork in a way that said, you're
a community based organization,or you are a city department or
agency.
Um, you may be brand spankingnew, right?
Gordon (27:37):
Right, right.
Right.
Lori (27:38):
may be less than a year old.
Gordon (27:41):
Mm-hmm
Lori (27:42):
funding, you know, historically.
What is it that you want?
Right?
Do you want me to make you aflyer for something?
Or
Gordon (27:50):
Mm-hmm
Lori (27:50):
you want me to go through all of your documentation and
make recommendations around datacollection?
Or do you want to start talkingabout, you know, if you're in
community violence intervention,like operationalizing the work.
Where do you go?
When do you go?
Gordon (28:06):
Mm-hmm
Lori (28:06):
go?
Right?
And then how do you tell thestory of the work itself?
So it's letting folks, it's kindof
Gordon (28:11):
Mm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Tailored, customized, yeah.
Mm-hmm
Lori (28:17):
anything that folks want, you know, is what we hope to
provide them with.
And, and we've been doing that,I feel like that project is
about two ish, a little bit overtwo years old.
So folks, working with folksthat are doing like primary
prevention
Gordon (28:31):
Mm-hmm
Lori (28:32):
or positive youth development.
So it's like arts and sports andrecreation, as well as community
violence intervention andreentry.
Right?
So
Gordon (28:40):
Must be a wide variety of stuff going on in there when
I think about it.
Mm.
Lori (28:45):
it's really fun and you know, folks that are doing this
work are just amazing.
and anytime that you get tosupport what they're doing.
And, and anytime someone says,Oh, you know, that, really
helpful.
I'm like, Oh, that's so great.
So, our Pennsylvania project isprobably our largest project.
we also have another projectthat we're working on.
We're working with Pennsylvaniaon, which is, a federal award
(29:07):
called the Continuum of Care,where it's actually looking at,
what's, what type of system canyou build out to refer youth
back to community basedorganizations
Gordon (29:16):
Hmm
Lori (29:16):
they don't get deeper systems involvement,
Gordon (29:19):
mm Okay.
Okay.
Lori (29:20):
looking at all of the potential intercepts where you
could say, okay, if we, if weget you here,
Gordon (29:26):
Mm-hmm.
Lori (29:26):
connect you back to community instead of going into
Gordon (29:30):
Right?
Lori (29:31):
deeper, right?
Gordon (29:32):
Mm.
Lori (29:33):
fun project because that's also more of a planning where we
get to do the you know What doesthe data tell us and what are
people that are directlyimpacted tell us and what do
people that have had systems?
Involvement tell us if you it'sit's kind of this opportunity to
say if you could build thissystem would you build,
Gordon (29:51):
Mm-hmm.
Lori (29:52):
And it's kind of a fun way to be thinking about this work
because, you know, if the waythat we're tackling violence or
how we've done it historicallyis the only way, like,
Gordon (30:04):
Mm.
Lori (30:04):
be, right?
Gordon (30:05):
Right, right.
Right.
Lori (30:07):
to be all of these different for innovation, right?
And for, again, learning fromyour mistakes or tweaking
Gordon (30:13):
Absolutely.
Lori (30:14):
them, making sure that they fit the local context or
the cultural context.
you know, it's giving people theopportunity to really say, been
impacted or I've been connectedto this or I do work in that
space and if I could dream,
Gordon (30:30):
Mm.
Lori (30:31):
something with the sole intention of making sure that
youth get what they need withincommunity.
What does it look like?
So that's another, that's anexciting one to be connected to.
And then we work with, LocalInitiative Support Corporation,
Gordon (30:46):
Hmm.
Lori (30:46):
I S C.
They partner with us on ourPennsylvania project and we
partner with them.
They are a technical assistanceprovider for a federal award,
the
Gordon (30:55):
Hmm.
Okay.
Lori (30:56):
to Address So we are working with, several of those
sites that received that grantfunding
Gordon (31:04):
Okay.
Hmm.
Lori (31:05):
which again is really interesting because I am a
support person on two projectsthat are
Gordon (31:10):
Yeah.
Lori (31:11):
practices in schools, I get to listen to someone, that I
work with that's a subjectmatter in that and just be,
like, awed by all of it,
Gordon (31:18):
Hmm.
Lori (31:19):
see the work in action.
and then I work with anothergroup group in Atlanta that is
doing, their community basedorganization that is providing
mental health services andsupport within the schools.
get to work on that.
So, it's like a whole bunch of,of
Gordon (31:34):
Yeah, you get to dabble in, and even the, I like in
hearing you talk and see thepassion and excitement in being
able to dabble in.
So we walked away from like aoutcome as a sole focus to now
building theories to like If wewere to do this, this, and this,
what would that look like?
(31:54):
If we were to build this andthen build it and then see what
happens versus like, you havethis one thing and you have to
keep showing how it providesvalue and how it impacts, has a
positive impact.
So I really liked hearing howyou kind of brought that,
brought all your experiencestogether to like more of a, a
blanker canvas to be able tokind of dream about the
(32:16):
projects.
That you think would add valueand then your your ideal role
and how you describe it aboutI'm behind the scenes.
I support you to do your work.
I don't need to be Paraded outthere and be like the number one
expert in the country on cameraSo like so in a way it gives you
both best of both worlds
Lori (32:35):
Yeah.
And I think, you know, whenyou're in like a technical
assistance role or when you'rein kind of like this, you know,
a couple steps removed role, theone hand, you're sad, right,
Gordon (32:48):
Right, right Yeah,
Lori (32:51):
I love Baltimore, I've been here since 1996, or in
Maryland since 92, in Baltimoresince 96.
Um, and it's a little bit of alike, oh, I'm not, I'm not as
connected, you
Gordon (33:04):
that's right
Lori (33:05):
have friends that are in the space and they're doing
amazing work, but like,
Gordon (33:08):
And I can see it a little bit more.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Lori (33:11):
that's difficult, but there's also this, you know,
Getting this opportunity to belike, well, I can try things and
like, test them out for you, youknow, and see like, does this
make sense for you?
Like, would this be a good fit?
If I create this tool, right, orthis resource, will that be
helpful to you?
(33:31):
You don't have to spend money.
the time and energy spinningyour wheels because a lot of
times, like, again, we'retalking about people in this
space, specifically in communityviolence intervention, but
really in violence preventionand intervention as a whole,
that have to be hyper focused onproviding quality services to
individuals that are at whateverlevel of risk they are, right,
(33:54):
whether that is in theprevention space for kids that
might have a little bit of anelevated risk or Or for
individuals that are providingservices to folks that are at
highest risk for involvement.
A lot of times you have to keepyour head down and the blinders
on and be in the work.
Right?
Like, you don't have that luxuryof taking a step back and being
like, Oh, well what would makethis
Gordon (34:15):
Let's do some systems thinking.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Lori (34:18):
Because you're the only one that can do this, right?
Like, you
Gordon (34:21):
Right.
Lori (34:21):
set that no one else has.
You can get where others can't,you know.
You're doing one on one workwith youth and families.
So, in my mind, I'm like, Okay,what are the mistakes that I can
make on the, like, on behalf of,
Gordon (34:33):
There
Lori (34:36):
and that, if it is something of value, if someone
seems something that it's, ifsomeone thinks it's of value to
them, you go, you know.
Gordon (34:42):
you go.
All right.
So let's take a little break andtransition over to my, well, one
of my favorite parts of thepodcast and It's our rapid fire
segment.
You ready for that?
You ready for that?
All right.
So Lori, welcome to our rapidfire segment called insight
blitz, where I'll ask youquestions or read some brief
(35:03):
statements and I'll get yourbrief responses.
Ready?
Lori (35:08):
I think so.
Gordon (35:09):
Let's go into it.
What's a skill that you learnedearly in your career that you
still use today?
Lori (35:16):
I mean, I think it goes back to being able, being
willing to do whatever it takes.
Gordon (35:20):
Hmm.
Lori (35:21):
Right?
Like,
Gordon (35:23):
It's not about you type of.
yeah, yeah.
Lori (35:26):
I mean, I think when you're younger, it's a more
challenging
Gordon (35:30):
Hmm.
Hmm.
Lori (35:33):
my life, yeah.
Like, Just being willing to showup and say, Oh, yeah, again,
like you want me to fill thenapkin dispenser?
Cool, no
Gordon (35:43):
Hmm.
No egos there.
Hmm.
Yeah.
Do it with some flair.
What's a number fact orstatistic or any piece of
knowledge that drives home theurgency of Violence for you that
you would share with anyone whomaybe is a little bit about the
work
Lori (36:01):
Probably that gun violence is the number one cause of death
for, I believe it's individualsages one to 44, it might even be
Gordon (36:07):
1 to 44 49.
Wow
Lori (36:11):
and homicide is the leading cause of death for
children, for young adults,young men, pregnant women,
Gordon (36:17):
Oh, geez
Lori (36:19):
yeah,
Gordon (36:19):
Okay, that that was a couple and all equally
disturbing A hot take you haveabout Public health or the work
that you do
Lori (36:29):
I don't think that this is a hot take anymore, but that
violence is a public healthissue.
Gordon (36:34):
We're gonna talk a lot about that, okay, okay
Lori (36:37):
hot it is.
It's probably lukewarm at
Gordon (36:40):
First for some people Some people it's hot.
It's a hot take though.
I hear what you're saying, butsome people will push back
against that Lastly the worstpiece of advice you've ever
gotten
Lori (36:53):
the worst piece of advice
Gordon (36:54):
Mm hmm.
Not the best.
I switch it up on you the worst
Lori (36:59):
it's funny the thing that keeps coming up for me is fake
it till you make it but that'sactually really good
Gordon (37:03):
Right mm hmm.
Mm
Lori (37:04):
think it is really good advice to you know Especially,
yeah, yeah.
who has given me bad advice?
What was that bad advice?
Probably everything will beokay.
To be honest.
Because it isn't always, andthat's okay too.
Right?
I like power positive thinking.
Right?
Like, I like
Gordon (37:20):
All right, right
Lori (37:22):
I like having hope, right?
And I think on a, on a bigscale, heck yeah, everything's
gonna be alright.
But I think it's also okay tosay, everything is currently on
fire, that situation is, andlet's, let's focus on this, like
I don't have to be like, buteverything will be alright in
Gordon (37:41):
It doesn't have to be right, right.
Okay.
Right.
And we can be okay witheverything not being okay.
Okay.
A little narrative shift there.
Lori (37:52):
accepting of it for now with the idea of
Gordon (37:56):
Trying to do something about it.
Okay.
All right.
That's all good.
I'll take that.
I'll steal that one.
So that brings us to the end ofour insight bliss segment.
Hopefully I didn't scare youaway and you'll stick with me
for the rest of the episode.
Yeah.
We're doing okay.
All right.
Okay.
Awesome.
So now let's get into the meatof the subject here.
(38:17):
This show was edited by me,gordon thing.
With additional editing fromLeshaun Benedict.
Sound design and mixing bymyself and Leshaun Bennet.
The original music.
From the music room.
Composed by Tom Fox, licensedfrom Johnny Harris.
The cover art designed for ourshow by Leshaun Bennet.
(38:38):
The public health insightpodcast is produced by Phi media
Thank you for listening to thepublic health insight.
Your go-to space for informativeconversations, inspiring
community action.
If you enjoy our podcast, besure to subscribe and leave us a
rating on apple podcasts orSpotify.
See you in the next one.
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