Is Bernhard Langer Cheating?

Join Matt Cook and Josh Gold as they dive into the world of professional golf. They tackle controversies like cheating on the champions tour, performance enhancers, and Bernhard Langer's anchoring scandal. Josh shares insights from Palm Brook Golf Club, while Matt recounts his own comeback story and mental battles with the yips. The episode features an interview with Langer, discusses recent tournaments, player dynamics, and future prospects like Scottie Scheffler's FedEx Cup hopes and JJ Spaun's Ryder Cup potential. Reflections on Langer's allegations and golf improvement wrap up the discussion.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
I have a message from a caddie on the ChampionsTour, and this is just the quote.
It says, I hate that dude with all my heart,and I never look at him without thinking you
fucking cheater.
That's what he said.
That's a caddie out there.
You know?
I mean, it goes deep.
It goes real deep.
So nine years of this, you know, and he's wonthe most tournaments ever.
There is a bubble at the end of every season,and, you know, five to eight guys don't get

(00:26):
their cards that might have if rules areplayed, you know, by the rule book.
Right?
But, you know, guys' careers are at stake.
They don't have to grind their way back ontothe Champions Tour, which is the hardest tour
to get on.
Five guys in the world get on this tour everyyear.
It's just wild to me.
It's absolutely wild.
You have somebody who is breaking a rule,getting away with it, and ends up because of

(00:52):
that cheat.
It would be like Major League Baseball saying,oh, we caught Barry Bonds doing steroids, but
we're gonna let him keep doing it because he isawesome.
Well, that's a whole other issue.
I mean, I'd like to see every baseball playeron anything they wanna be on, and let's have
some fun.
Yeah.
Buttsy and I were talking about that not thatlong ago that isn't there a league that's

(01:14):
coming out that is gonna be you can be onwhatever you want so that there is an absolute
level playing field?
As many steroids as you want.
Like, there's this league that I haven't heardanything about it lately though, so I don't
know if it just kinda fizzled out or not.
But there's supposed to be a league where youcould take whatever you want.
And that way, anybody can do what they want andit would be a level playing field.

(01:39):
And it was all different types of sports.
Welcome back, everybody, to Pull Hook Golf, thepodcast.
I'm your host, Matt Cook.
And tonight, we've got an awesome guest foreverybody.
This is the track golfer that you will hear usreference on the show, our unofficial

(01:59):
researcher, Mr.
Josh Gold.
Also, how did you put your username onInstagram?
I forgot already.
It's called LyroVive.
LyroVive.
LyroVive.
You were given a whole backstory there beforewe came on air.
So folks, if you're listening to the podcastversion right now, the livestream, go to the

(02:20):
original livestream, you'll hear all about itin our first five minutes as we're just kinda
shooting the you-know-what, before the showactually kicks off, which we are now into.
And man, do we have an awesome show for youtonight, which we've labeled, is Bernhard
Langer cheating or Bernhard?

(02:40):
I I always miss the h.
Is it a silent h?
Do you know this?
Bernhard.
I mean, if he's gonna burn, he's gonna burnhard.
Okay?
So good old, is he a cheater or is he cheating?
Yeah.
No.
Before we
do dive in though
We're just gonna make observations, Matt.
That's all we're doing.
That's right.
As the disclaimer, we're just makingobservations.

(03:03):
We are
not a I'm gonna say it right now.
He's not a cheater and, you know, he's neverbeen penalized.
He's played by the rules of golf for this long.
You know, it is to up to this point, he is nota cheater.
Wow.
There it is.
Well, I mean, that is a blanket statement.
I I will say another thing about BernhardLanger.

(03:26):
I think he is really probably one of the top 20players of all time.
Yeah.
He's he's that good.
He's been around forever.
You know?
He's been around forever.
I mean, the dude is phenomenal.
Let's get that out of the way too.
It's not like we're hating on Bernhard Langer.
Maybe we're disclaimers.
Maybe we're hating on something else that wedon't even know about.

(03:48):
You know what I mean?
We'll figure that out.
We'll figure it out through this episode.
Right?
Audience a little bit though with is he acheater or is he not?
Is he cheating?
Now, you're saying that he's not.
So we're gonna get into this because there is adeep dive here, folks.
And if you see Mr.
Try Golfer Josh Gold's shirt, it is BernhardLanger.

(04:12):
It is the USGA Rule 10.1b, which is the rulethat we're talking about, and we're gonna be
getting into that here tonight.
It's gonna be a lot of fun.
I'm really looking forward to it.
But before we do dive in, we wanna give ashoutout to our sponsors.
First of all, good old Devereux Golf.
Folks, go over to devereuxgolf.com.
Utilize the promo code PULLHOOKGOLF20 for 20%off your entire order at devereuxgolf.com.

(04:37):
I've got the hat on.
I've got the shirt on.
Now, I will tell you right now that this is thelike, I wore this a couple episodes ago.
If you wanna rip me for it, absolutely goahead.
I just love this fit.
I love the long sleeve and it's so thin too,especially during the summertime.
It was like a what?
A 110 today or it still is like in thehundreds.

(04:57):
It's 114 today.
Yeah.
Exactly.
So literally, I've got it on and it's so thinand nice.
It's awesome.
And then you've also got the hat.
There's Xander in the backdrop there, Trot'sson.
And we absolutely love that a quick appearancefrom him.
Now, as I mentioned it, it is, by the way,folks, spelled devereuxgolf.com.

(05:21):
And the promo code is PULLHOOKGOLF20 for 20%off your entire order at devereuxgolf.com.
We also want to give a quick little shout-outto our sponsors at Vice Golf.
The promo code there is
That's 15% off in addition to whatever bulkdiscounts you get on golf balls.
And then finally, rock form.
Pole hook twenty twenty five is the promo codethere for 20% off.

(05:46):
Big fan, mister Goldiz.
With rock form, he's got the speaker.
He's got the phone case.
I mean, my goodness gracious.
We were blasting it today on the golf course,the little Rockform speaker.
And number one he's such a
Number one speaker left at all golf courses,Rockform.
And here's the thing, and it lasts forever.

(06:08):
Like, I feel like I've charged it once, and Iuse it almost every single day.
So it lasts for 24 hours of playback with thatlittle speaker.
It's absolutely incredible.
Magnets attach to the golf cart.
It's awesome.
Go get yourself one.
And I always use, and even right now using itright now, is their golf magnet which attaches
to a shaft.
You could put it onto a tripod.

(06:31):
So I use it to record the show.
I use it to record some of the 5 a.m.
comeback stuff that I do.
And by the way, folks, it is day 55 of the 5a.m.
comeback.
You know the stories.
I'm still keeping those going, but I've got toget a little bit more busy with it, and that's
going to be coming in the weeks to come as wehave a new No.
So we've got a new social media coordinatorthat has joined the team, and they're going to

(06:55):
start posting a lot of that content.
And then Jones Golf, by the way, folks, they'vehooked me up with a golf bag as part of the 5
a.m.
comeback.
I absolutely love it.
I will be sharing more in regards to that.
There's just so much convenience to it.
Like, some of the stuff is so simple, butnobody else is doing it.
Like, the little patch for your golf glove thatyou can just attach to your golf bag, and

(07:19):
you're good to go.
And it doesn't, like, dry out.
You're not stuffing it into where it's gettingall crinkled and everything.
Pretty awesome there.
And then I gotta give a shout-out to StarkHealth.
Stark Health, folks, if you are serious aboutyour health, want to get into a full
transformation, I'm going through it right now.
And again, on day 55, and I couldn't feelbetter, and I'm getting more and more in shape.

(07:43):
I don't fear taking my shirt off anymore.
So, yeah, my wife's like, well, you're justwalking around the house now with your shirt
off.
I'm like, I absolutely
You know, at Palm Brook, you could play golfwithout your shirt.
That's give me a little bit more time before Istart doing that.
But that is that is an option.
Maybe next summer, I'll be shirt off over thereat Palm Brook.

(08:03):
Now, folks, I do want to give a specialintroduction to our special guest.
Once again, Josh Gold, aka Track Golfer, akaunofficial researcher of the Pull Hook Golf
podcast.
And, he is also the head over at Palm BrookGolf Club.
He is also my golf coach.

(08:23):
I feel like there's a lot of like AKA's mixedwithin there, but, welcome on to the show, man.
Thank you.
Yeah.
It's, from from trolling kind of a a golfpodcast to researcher to being on the show,
instructor.
I mean, Jesus.
It's it's, you know, everything I've manifestedin my life.
Yeah.

(08:43):
Dude, I mean, you are a man of many talents.
That I can assure everybody because, whoo, yougot you got a lot of things that you do.
We're not gonna get into all of them, but I dowant to start kinda with your golf history.
Right?
I want to go back into the day and take usthrough how do you get started into this

(09:04):
awesome game.
I love it when we introduce new people to ouraudience because everybody's story is a little
bit different, but there's so manycommonalities I tend to find.
So take us back to the early days and how yougot into the game of golf.
Yeah.
So I grew up in in the Phoenix Peoria area, andI would I'd go to this golf course, Westbrook

(09:26):
Village, and I go hit balls over there.
I was probably 12, 13 years old.
And one day, I decided to walk in the the GM'soffice and ask if I could pick up the buckets
to hit golf balls.
And he said, sure, kid.
And every day after school, I would take myclubs on my back and ride my bike to the golf
course, which is about a mile away.

(09:49):
And I'd hit, you know, 300 balls a day, one ofthe large buckets and played with a bunch of
old people.
It's a retirement community, and these folkstreated me wonderfully.
It turned into picking, you know, range balls,and at 16 years old, playing tournaments, you

(10:09):
know, too much golf, they fired me.
Right?
Like, I couldn't show up to pick range ballsanymore.
And got a job at Vans Golf Shop, 99th and BellRoad.
Oh, yeah.
I've been to that one a lot.
16 years old selling shoes on the weekends.
I was in the shoe department.
So I'd be responsible for organizing the backend of shoes and selling shoes, and that's

(10:34):
kinda how I started becoming a golf pro,really.
Right?
Went to—man, of all things, I went to the—Igraduated high school, and I decided to go to
the San Diego Golf Academy over in San Diego,Vista, California.
Oh, yeah.
I went through that for, like, a year and justkinda quit.
I just—like, it's a disaster.

(10:54):
I was getting suspended for breaking clubs intournaments and, you know, freaking out all the
Koreans and, you know, just they'd suspend me.
You can't play for, like, two weeks.
So, you know, I had a little bit of an attitudeissue, you know, with golf, but that's kind of
the competitor in me, I guess.

(11:15):
And then moved back to the Valley and became agolf pro at the age of 19 at Longboat Golf
Club.
We opened the golf club.
It was cement and ball washers into the ground.
Just we we literally opened the golf course,and that was a fun experience.
Did that for, like, three to four years.
Got sick of golf.

(11:35):
Got the yips.
You know, a lot of things going on.
No wonder you know how to work with me so well.
You've been through it yourself.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
So I've been through the chipping yips, theputting yips, the, you know, the game of golf.
Right?
Like, you just you fight through it, and that'swhat I went through.
So quit that, worked in a machine shop,forklift, cutting pieces of metal to a certain

(11:59):
size.
I got really good at working machines and, youknow, did that for, like, four years.
And then kinda out of the blue, a buddy calledme who is really good friends with Michael
Allen and said, you know, do you wanna go caddyfor him on the Nationwide Tour?
He sent us, you know, 47, 48 years old, stickit out with them kind of thing.

(12:21):
But, man, I went out there in 2003 to caddy onthe Nationwide Tour.
You know, I took my Jetta wagon, you know,Volkswagen and went on the road, and it lasted,
like, six, seven months, and I basically quit.
I quit caddying for Michael Allen.
I couldn't take it.
You know, he wasn't playing well.
You know, you're not making any money.

(12:42):
Right?
You you just
Not on the corporate tour.
Not back then.
No.
No.
Not at all.
Ended up at a good friend's house near Chicago.
Just kinda playing softball with them andhanging out, going to bars, and just enjoying,
you know, my young years.
I was probably about 22, 23, and 24.

(13:06):
And my buddy bought a golf shop in Kalispell,Montana.
Kalispell, Montana, is probably the mostbeautiful place on the planet, and I jetted up
there and helped him run his golf shop forabout 12 years.
And I'd go back and forth, run the golf shop.
I'd play golf every night.
You know, the sun's out till 10:00.

(13:27):
I got really good up there.
Like, I played really well.
I played—I was an amateur at the time.
So I was a pro at long, got my amateur statusback.
Turned pro again at another point when I was inMontana.
I'm still a golf professional now, but taught abunch of great kids, ended up coaching high

(13:47):
school.
We had a phenomenal time.
Like, it really taught me how to teach the gameof golf to people and just, you know, I was in
the business.
That's what I was doing.
Was selling clubs and playing golf andteaching.
This is literally the best times of my life.
Best golf I ever played in my life was upthere.

(14:08):
I mean, you're a heck of a player too.
So let's get that right out of the way.
You're not one of these golf instructors thatis in a—I mean, you gotta be—what's your
handicap?
You gotta be a plus.
Right?
Well, that's the thing.
I don't really play a whole lot of golf rightnow.
Yeah.
And, you know, if I had to put a number on it,yeah, we're probably right around at scratch

(14:29):
right now.
You know, I played nine holes with you today.
You saw me fucking scrape it around, and, youknow, I think I was one under on the day.
Right?
So yeah.
I mean, you know.
You've also been playing the industry too.
But, you know, as you know, I understand kindahow to get it around the golf course, and
that's what I do best.

(14:49):
But yeah.
So after Montana, I kinda met this lady, andshe'd come up back and forth.
And we ended up just kinda hanging out downhere, and two kids later, I'm running a golf
course that I extremely love.
I'm at Palm Brook Golf Club.

(15:10):
You know, I started there about four and a halfyears ago just working in the cart barn two
days a week because I love golf.
I wanna practice golf, play golf.
Met two really good owners of golf coursescalled Swing First Golf.
These two guys own six golf courses, and theywere like, we want you to run the place.
We love your attitude.
We love everything you kinda stand for, andthat's where I'm at today.

(15:33):
It's it's a dream, really.
And yeah.
It's it's really a dream.
That's why I told you I don't know if it waslast week or the week prior, but I was like,
man, you're living the dream out here.
This is unreal that you've got and I've talkedabout this with grass clippings.
I've talked about it with a few others towhere, like, there's certain golf courses that

(15:54):
are creating a vibe now.
And you're definitely one of those golf coursesto where, like, you've got the guys like in the
shop, like, you know, there's a vibe that'sgoing on there and it's pretty cool to see.
And the players that are coming out, you cantell.
I mean, you've got guys that are trying to getonto the PGA Tour.
And I mean, there's a lot of good players thatare up there at Palm Brook, like, playing

(16:16):
through.
So yeah.
You're doing you're doing something right.
Thank you.
We have we do have a mix of players.
I mean and, yeah, my my goal is to change.
It was a country club from 1972, you know, to apublic golf course that that needs to succeed.
Right?
And, yeah, we do have a couple players thathave played in majors that do practice out

(16:39):
there, and we love them.
And we love the new golfers that come out.
You know?
We basically ask a few things, and that's, youknow, if you're gonna pay to play at Palm
Brook, you gotta keep up with the group aheadof you, and that's about all we ask for.
You know?
Respect the golf course, respect what we'redoing out here, and play in a timely manner.
That's it.

(16:59):
You're one of the good ones.
That's for sure.
We had some clips go out last week that a lotof people were resonating with around golf
pros.
And, you know, there's definitely the ones thatare the bad characters within the sport.
A lot of people feel like there's differentreasons why,
that
they are certain ways.
And we even had some pros chirping in as wellas to like, hey, if you had to deal with the

(17:24):
people that I deal with, you'd understand ittoo.
No.
And that's a part of it.
Like, we're dealing with the public.
Right?
And we love the public.
I mean, that's what's keeping us alive.
But it comes to a certain point where, youknow, enough is enough, and you just have to
lay it out there at times.
And yeah.
I mean, they may come across as dicks, but, youknow, it's probably more of the person involved

(17:48):
on the other side.
So, you know, the more you respect the golfcourse, the more you understand kinda how golf
should work.
You know, I think, you know, on the customerside of it, that's where that's at.
Yeah.
I mean, I've been I've been a part of that.
Like, a lot of people didn't realize thatButtsy has had experience in his younger years.
When I came out here after COVID, I essentiallywent to go work.

(18:13):
I worked up at Quintero, which was great, and Iworked over at Desert Mountain, which was
great.
And, you know, was kinda going down that pathfor a little bit because we had to close our
business in New York City.
So I was like, hey, you know what?
Let's just hang out at the golf course and havea good time.
And I didn't have a problem with people.
That was the one thing that, like, I never raninto that where I was dealing with idiots.

(18:37):
I mean, there were some, but obviously, youdeal with them as they come.
But anyways, moving into our first segmentbeyond getting to know you a little bit better
there, Josh.
But the 5 a.m.
comeback, I recently played and a lot of peopleknow this through the Instagram page for Pull
Hook Golf.
Played recently in a member-guest championship.

(19:00):
We'll get into the results there.
But you and I have been working together.
And we've been working together for what now?
Like five, six weeks?
Think it's seven.
Weeks.
I think it's gotta be six or seven.
Yeah.
I mean, it's been like, we're getting intowhere we're making some real change and the
game is getting

(19:21):
not touching each other in the cart yet, butit's been seven good weeks.
There you go.
The relationship has been built.
But tell the audience, like, what have we beenworking through in my swing and just overall
game?
Give them an insight.
Yeah.
I mean, I guess the first thing is your mentalside.
It's gone to the mental side with yourchipping.

(19:42):
You know, that's where it all started.
You know?
That's where your biggest, I'll call it a fear,is when you're playing golf.
Yeah.
And that has to do with your mechanics.
Your mechanics got bad.
And, you know, when you think you're doingsomething and you're nowhere near it, that's
the yips.

(20:02):
That's, you know, these psychologists can tellyou what they want.
It's because you're thinking you're doingsomething, but your body is doing completely
something basically different.
It's completely not doing what you think it'sdoing.
And you yip it.
You yip because the mechanics are awful.
Right?
And so that's the first thing we worked on.

(20:24):
We, you know, you're I would call it you cancall it a cup, you know, a bunch of different
things, connection or whatnot.
But, basically, your hands are supposed to goon a certain path, and your hands aren't going
in a certain path.
They're going away from you.
They're getting away from your body.
You're not just following the round arc of thegolf swing.

(20:45):
Right?
So that's kind of the first thing we reallyworked on.
Connection, you know, maybe keeping your upperbicep, you know, more towards your body.
Right?
So you're Yeah.
You're just kinda rotating and that's kindawhere it started.
It did.
It started there.
And then, you know, you got me hitting theselittle, like, half finishes.

(21:07):
And all of a sudden, the irons started gettinggood.
Then we went and we started working on gettingthe, you know, the club path a little bit more
shallow in the downswing.
That started to click.
Heading into this member-guest, I was feelingpretty good.
Outside of, you know, still kinda in the backof the head having the yips and so forth with
the chipping.

(21:28):
And sure enough, those certainly showed up.
I gotta ask you, as somebody who's dealt withthe yips, watching somebody with the yips, is
it frustrating to just see that take placewhile you're, like, coaching and helping?
Frustrating?
No.
Like, depressing?
Yes.
It's totally depressing because I've beenthere.

(21:50):
And, you know, when you do what you're supposedto do, like, we've been working on something
based on keeping your hands real close to yourbody.
Yeah.
Keeping it underneath you is kinda, like, thekey right now.
Keeping your hands underneath you.
And when I force you to do that, you know,you're just rotating.
You're just hitting shots, and you're beingyourself out there.

(22:11):
So, yeah, I would say it's more depressingbecause, you know, you're not, you know, doing
the opposite of kinda what you've been doing.
Yeah.
And I will tell you, I was fighting some demonsout there even though the game was getting
pretty dang good.
I will also mention Dr.
Lee Piccarello, which I always botch his lastname.

(22:34):
I'm sorry, Dr.
Lee, you're probably going to listen to this.
Actually, I know you're going to listen to thison Thursday, and you're gonna rip me a new one
on Monday.
But with that said, with him, we've beenworking on finding that where you perform the
best.
And one of the things that we've been trying todo is even within our sessions of when I come

(22:58):
see you.
I try to get into a mental state to where itmatters.
Right?
That, you know, trying to put even a little bitof pressure on myself.
And going into this member-guest, he's like,Matt, I want you to think that this is the
biggest golf tournament that you have everplayed in.
I want you to be shaking on that first hole.
I want you to start callusing your mind thatyou are overcoming this or, you know, your

(23:25):
body's getting used to it.
And I will tell you, I built myself up becauselast year at the same member-guest, I did not
play well.
And I felt like I kinda let my partner down,who is Steve Nesvik, out in on Cantera.
And great guys.
Steve Nesvik, everybody loves Steve.
Awesome dude.

(23:45):
And, you know, he's somebody that I really feltlike, man, I let him down last year, so I
really wanted redemption, really wanted to beinvited back.
Luckily, got the invite to come back, and Ireally built this whole thing up.
And I will tell you that on the first tee box,my hands were shaking a little bit to where I'm
like, oh, shit.
Like, this is happening.
But we've been working on a lot of stuff aswell.

(24:08):
Not so much with the chipping yips.
That that beak starting to get fixed andstarting to work is all you, Trot.
He's more so on getting me into thatperformance mental state.
But I will say, and he was talking to me onMonday, this past Monday afterwards about how
mentally exhausted I should be after a golfround because of everything that goes into it.

(24:34):
And I will say, yeah, there were certainlylearning that journey along the way, which
folks, just gonna tell you.
I mean, working on the mental game is I've beendoing this now with a couple different
performance coaches, and I will say that Dr.
Lee has been unbelievable when it comes toteaching me things that I never thought to do

(24:57):
heading into a tournament.
And, like, you normally wouldn't wanna try tobuild up a golf tournament to be as big in my
head as this was.
But now this could have completely backfired,by the way, and it was actually technically
supposed to.
Like, I technically should have faltered withinthat tournament, but it was to callous for

(25:17):
future events.
And it did not though.
Steve Nesvik played really well.
He kinda kept me together.
First day was a shamble.
Second day was best ball, and we ended upwinning the goddamn thing.
So at 17 under par, we shot nine under thefirst day and eight under the second day.

(25:38):
We ham and egged it the first day.
Because as I was telling you, Trot, I literallywas running into some challenges in that first
round.
And then the second round, I started so strong.
Game felt so good.
Like, I kinda figured a couple things out onthe range, you know.
Haven't played a competitive round in a longtime.

(26:00):
So, like, this felt really, really good.
And to get the victory, which by the way
It's net.
It's a net victory.
Absolutely, it is.
My game was not my my game was not ready norlike, Steve's an 8 handicap.
Well, let's talk about this.
So he's an 8.
You're playing as a what?

(26:20):
So I came in as a 7.
A legit 7.
And the lowest you've been in your life is awhat?
Lowest that I've been in my life is a plus 3.
K.
When I was playing professionally.
Right.
10 shots higher.
Yeah.
K.
So you know what that feels like to play at apretty high level.
K.
You came in as a 7.

(26:41):
You should win that every single time, which isgreat.
You won.
We did.
We won.
We Yeah.
We won.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
You're probably gonna be called out on thatInstagram guy, you know, the the handicap guy.
Oh, yeah.
I've well, if he looked at it, the one thingthat you would see is that I play a lot of the
par-3 golf.
Right?
And that's something that he tends to call out.

(27:03):
But also, the fact of you can't see chippingyips on paper.
No.
And and quite frankly, you you haven't playedmuch golf in the would you say a year?
I play period like, I'll I'll be lucky if Iplay once a week.
Right.
Yeah.
And how So mean, really Competitive mode.
As an instructor, you know, are you how howmuch better can you get if you don't play, you

(27:26):
know, at least four days a week.
Right?
Yeah.
We were talking about that today that I'vegotta start playing in some more events.
I've gotta like, I was telling you, don't feelready to go out and play in an individual
tournament right now.
Like, I feel like there's still some work thatyou and I need to do to build that confidence
up in order to get to that point.
But I agree with Lee.

(27:48):
Lee's his name.
Right?
Like, you
should, Lee.
Doctor Lee.
Doctor Lee.
You should go play in anything you can, like,just for fun and build it up.
Like, if you can get in something, you shouldgo play, and just whatever happens happens.
And that's you have to get in the in into thefire.
You have to you have to get it back.

(28:08):
Right?
Like, that's how you're gonna get it back.
If you wanna play grass leagues, you gottastart playing every day on your own as much as
you can, not every day, but as much as you can,and treat it like you're in a tournament.
I need to do it.
I it's gotta start to happen.
So, we're gonna we're going to, I keep tellingyou, we're we're ramping up.

(28:30):
We're ramping up to that next level, and we'llget there.
I mean, we've got a little bit of time, but Idon't wanna say we have too much time because
next year is gonna come quick.
No.
It's
Gotta gotta start playing in some events likeyou said.
So, anyways, we got a victory underneath us.
Fantastic.
Better.
It's fantastic.
We got that winning feeling.

(28:52):
I feel great about it.
I don't feel great about it, actually, becauseI actually left one on 18 on the final day.
And bogeying a par 5 after I had, like, a15-foot putt for eagle the day prior, I felt
like I left one out there.
And with a three-putt, by the way.
It was a three-putt bogey.

(29:12):
It was the only three-putt out of the two days.
Frustrating.
Well, that's another thing though.
We did change your putting a little bit, andit's been pretty solid.
See how I did that?
I gave you that little tee up there to talkabout the we.
And that was a simple fix.
What did that take?
Thirty seconds?
Yeah.
In front of a mirror.

(29:32):
You put me into the golf shop, and you're like,come here.
Like, get in front of this mirror.
You're like, put the putter into your handsthis way.
And I'm like, oh, shit.
Okay.
And you built a straight line between theforearm straight down through the putter.
Now I can just rock the shoulders back andthrough, and it goes in the hole, which is
incredible.
And I had a lot of three- to four-foot testyputts throughout the week.

(29:58):
And I made every single one up until the lastday on the last hole.
So luckily, we had a two-shot lead.
We need that sound effect.
We need the clapping.
Oh, hang on a second.
I can do that.
Watch this.
Ready?
Yeah.
Let's do it.
Here we go.
Thank you.
Thank you.
It was worth it.
You made some money over the weekend?
Did make some money.
Made a little bit of cash, which was great.

(30:21):
You know, you gotta follow the clapping with alittle laughing.
So, anyways, enough about me and the 5 a.m.
comeback and the stuff that we've worked on.
But I did learn a lot through that, I will say.
Like, learned a lot about the mental side andthe like, the mental journey that it took
throughout those days after building it up sobig and just sticking to process and really

(30:47):
building a routine.
Whenever things would go wrong, would think ofwhat you would tell me.
Yep.
So, yeah.
Just don't f out.
You know what I mean?
Yep.
Yep.
So we got that going for us, is nice.
F dash dash.
Don't f dash dash out.
Out.
Bernhard Langer.

(31:07):
Let's get to him because I've been ramblinglong enough in regards to my own game.
Let's talk about the Bernhard Langer potentialanchoring scandal.
Take us through the origin story here as to howdo we get here with Bernhard Langer because he
didn't always use a long putter.
We've been talking with my own game too with athing called the yips.

(31:30):
So bring us through this.
So he won the Masters twice.
First time putting cross-handed.
He, you know, is probably, like, an odd thing.
Like, I don't know what year it was, but maybeearly '90s, '90, he won the Masters
cross-handed, right you know, left hand low.
And then he won the Masters again.

(31:51):
Doing the forearm bit, he put the the shaftalong his left forearm, and he grabbed the
shaft in his forearm, and he putted like that.
And he won the Masters doing that.
So it it shows you he's had issues with puttingand yips and his whole career, and and that's

(32:12):
why he's really one of the best.
He stuck it out and figured it out.
I think it's '96, '97.
He went to the long putter and has never lookedback.
So but he dealt with the yips really bad.
I mean, it was I mean, that would have derailedhis career if he didn't figure something out.
Right?
Well, that's the thing.
He was a pioneer.

(32:32):
Like, he didn't give a he didn't give a fuck toto change things up or try something new.
Like, you know, back then, it it's like youwere Moe Norman or something.
Right?
Like, it's totally a this guy's odd.
He's he's what's he doing?
You know?
This isn't how we've been taught to play.
And, you know, he figured it out, which says alot about him.

(32:54):
German engineering.
Yeah.
Exactly.
Volkswagen.
So yeah, he's figured it out.
But, you know, '97, '96, he went to a longputter, I think, somewhere in there.
And then that's kinda when it all changed whenVijay Singh started winning with a belly
putter.

(33:15):
Keegan Bradley winning with a belly putter, andthey just jam that thing in their belly, and
they just fulcrum it.
Right?
Like Yeah.
You can't you can't mess it up as long as youhave feel, which these guys have the best feel
on the planet.
They're the best.
So they have a fulcrum point, and the puttercan basically swing on its own, and the USGA

(33:36):
didn't like it.
So they came out with a Rule 14-1b in 2016 thatbasically stated, you know, you couldn't belly
putt.
You couldn't jam the end of a putter into yourbelly.
You couldn't press your you know, if you'rereally a long putter guy, you couldn't, you
know, hold it against your chest or your youknow, guys are putting it on their chin at some

(33:59):
point.
Right?
There's a lot of weird things going on.
So that had to be away, you know, not touchingor had to be just a little away.
And then the other part of that was youcouldn't use your forearm as an anchor point.
You couldn't put it against your body and, youknow, create the anchor point.
So that kinda started in 2016.

(34:22):
In 2023, they changed the rule for some reasonto a different number.
It went from 14-1b to 10-1b.
I was wondering if you misspoke or if it didchange.
So it changed.
It changed in 2023 to this new modern rule,which basically is stating the same thing, that

(34:45):
you can't use your forearm, and your forearmand wrist are considered the same thing against
part of your body.
And, obviously, you can't put the butt end ofthe putter, you know, into your body anywhere
to create the anchor point.
DeChambeau, there is a part maybe this is whythe rule changed in 2023 is because of
DeChambeau.

(35:06):
You can put the putter against your forearmlike he does, Matt Kuchar style.
Yeah.
As long as it doesn't go above the elbow or thecrease in the arm.
Got it.
So the forearm's okay.
Yeah.
So that's probably the reason why they changedthe verbiage to accommodate Bryson.

(35:27):
And here we are today.
You know, the anchor point, if we wanna read,you know, the USGA rule, basically, for, you
know, the Bernhard area, you know, you can'tuse, you know, it says indirectly through the
use of an anchor point by holding a forearmagainst any part of the body to use a gripping

(35:47):
hand as a stable point around which the otherhand may swing the club.
Yeah.
Here we go.
So the indirectly part.
If the player, club, gripping hand, or forearmmerely touches his or her body or clothing
during the stroke without being held againstthe body, there is no breach of rules.
So it's basically stating if you're away fromyour body to start, you make your stroke and it

(36:11):
brushes up against, you know, your shirt, maybeeven your body.
Right?
That's fine.
But, you know, we'll talk about Bernhard in aminute as far as kinda how he does this.
For the purpose of this rule, forearm means thepart of the arm below the elbow joint and
includes the wrist.

(36:32):
So the wrist/forearm are kinda the same thing.
And you can see the pictures there.
It says not allowed and allowed.
There's even a picture segment.
The USGA put pictures in this.
Yeah.
So, which is really helpful.
Yeah.
So the blue side is the allowed.
If you go to this long putter not anchoredpicture, yeah, you know, you can obviously see

(36:53):
that there is a gap there.
You could fit, you know, probably, you know,something in between there.
Right?
I'll even give you a credit card.
If you can fit a credit card in between therewith, you know, just drop the credit card.
You know, if it goes through, you're okay.
If it doesn't, you're probably putting pressureagainst your body.

(37:15):
And I'm talking minute pressure is pressure,and minute pressure is anchoring.
You can see that middle picture to the right,anchor point created by forearm.
I mean, I'm pretty sure they took a silhouetteof Bernhard Langer for that one.
I mean, it literally looks exactly like thispicture.

(37:35):
Well, he's more like the one to the right.
He's got his thumb away and
It's not, but here's the thing though, andwe'll get to this in a second with some of the
clips.
It's not where like, it still looks like hishand is almost touching.
Yeah.
I would say if you said, hey, Josh, you're arules official, and you're gonna watch this

(37:59):
group today, I would say he's more to the rightpicture than the left.
Okay.
I don't we'll we're gonna see some clips.
Yeah.
We're gonna see
Yeah.
We'll review all this.
But, you know, the USGA has got pictures, and Iwant let's go back to the verbiage real fast.
And this is kind of important, is the verbiagebasically, there's nothing in here that says

(38:23):
intent.
The word intent is not in this rule, and thatwill come into play with the USGA.
The USGA is gonna say, you know, he's notintending to cheat.
He's not intending to anchor.
He's not intending to break 10.1b, but there isno intent in this rule.

(38:43):
If you go to the USGA rules book and on thesearch engine, if you type in intent, you're
gonna have about 25 rules that come up, andit's gonna give you specific rules.
It's gonna highlight that word intent, and thisis not one of them.
This is not a rule that has anything to do withintent.
Yeah.
There's nothing in that rule.
There's nothing.

(39:03):
Zero.
So that's another issue is the USGA is gonnasay his intent is not to cheat.
His intent is not to do this.
I think in the USGA minds, they're basicallystating that he has to call the rule on
himself.
He basically has to say, you know what?
I did intend to do that, and, you know, it's atwo-shot penalty.

(39:26):
But there is no intent in this rule written inthe rule book.
The USGA are gods.
They are the gods of golf.
They run the show.
People wanna become USGA.
They wanna work there.
They wanna be a part of golf.
They wanna, you know, change the game in theirown way.
Right?
Well, this is their rule.

(39:46):
There is no intent written in this rule.
So.
I'm gonna stop the screen share for a secondbecause I wanna get into before we go to people
that you've talked to recently, I wanna playthe clips now for everybody.
Because so folks, the timeline here, we wentfrom putting yips.
Bernhard ended up looking for a solution, founda long putter.

(40:10):
Now, USGA bans that and bans anchoring.
Right?
And I think from the very beginning, it lookedlike he was not necessarily anchoring.
Like I was looking up photos tonight.
I saw a lot of the older ones and it didn'tlook like he was anchoring.
But over time, it's gotten more and more andmore anchoring, to where I think he just, you

(40:37):
know, he knew he can get away with it.
People weren't calling him on it the closer andcloser he got to anchoring.
But let's take a look at some of the clipshere.
So let's start off with the first one.
I would agree with all that.
2016, he made an adjustment.
No.
Let's pause it right here.
There it is.

(40:57):
Can you go back just a little bit to
Yeah.
Yeah.
Right now, he's he's looking the putt over.
Right?
That's
the thing.
So he's he's got this putt.
This is the 18th hole.
I'm not sure what tournament this is, but thisis the 18th hole.

(41:18):
I think he's gotta make it to maybe get in aplayoff or something.
And what you're gonna notice here, folks, andyou're right, by the way, looking at this one,
but his thumb isn't pointing towards us.
It's kinda just pointing up towards his right.
But you look at the forearm.
Yeah.
And maybe his boobs have grown as an old man.

(41:39):
I don't know.
Like, I don't know the answer there.
But all of a sudden, you can see and I wonderif oh, we can't zoom in.
I wish we could zoom in on this because
I mean, you don't have
to logo.
You don't have to zoom.
You just don't.
Can literally see his boob is resting on hisforearm, which means there is pressure that is

(41:59):
there.
There is a crease in his shirt because of wherehe is anchoring.
And again, these are just observations that hisforearm I mean, the one thing that I don't
think is disputable is that his forearm istouching his boob.
It is totally putting pressure against the leftpec.

(42:20):
Well, let's just take a look.
If this changes, he's he's jamming it in there.
And it doesn't move.
That's the other thing.
Right.
So that to me
Are you able to credit card in there?
Absolutely not.
There's no change.
No no way.
No way.
I think what's gonna happen is we're gonna goright from this to a clip of Bernhard Langer

(42:44):
with Scott McCarron and a couple Golf Channelanalysis guys.
And this is from February 2016, and BernhardLanger starts talking about how what he feels
how what he has to do to make the adjustmentsfor the new rules.
Yeah.
And we can talk about that too.
So stop it right there.
So he's he says, so I I make sure I'm nottouching my body, not with my hand, not with my

(43:10):
forearm, or any other thing.
I feel when I touch my body and when I don't.
And if I don't, I'm gonna make a stroke.
So he fully understands the rule.
He fully understands that if he's touching hisbody, he will be penalized for doing it.
So he fully understands it.

(43:31):
This is early in the beginning.
Let's watch the next one.
That's the crazy thing to me.
So if you watch the entire stroke, right, andthis is what really gets me, is that his
forearm to his chest does not move at all.
And that's wild to me that even the crease inhis shirt doesn't move.

(43:54):
Right.
It's it's pinned.
It's pressure.
So let's go to the next one.
Let's take a look because okay.
Is this a one-off scenario or this justhappened one time?
Right?
I mean, that's what people are going to ask andwant to see.
So
this is 2023 U.S.

(44:15):
Open.
He wins.
And by the way, this this one is very yippy.
Like, you could see the yip and you can see itbracing against his chest.
Yeah.
I will say this is is he looks better withwhite shirts on.
It looks a lot better for him with white shirtsthan dark shirts.

(44:36):
We're gonna see him wearing a green shirt and apink shirt, and it shows all.
He uses so effectively.
But he did win this year or this 2023 U.S.
Open.
Five wins on the PGA Tour.
That one isn't as bad, but you can still seethe crease in the shirt.
Isn't moving.
Steaky maidens
on the last report.
See, that one came like win.
On it.

(44:56):
45.
The boob is just resting on the forearm
on.
Yeah.
There I mean, you can see
we go.
I mean, pink shirt, not not a good call.
Yeah.
That embrace of in that last clip, especially.
We can just see Yeah.
Where the shirt is, like, pinned up.

(45:17):
Yeah.
Credit to the USGA.
That's a YouTube full montage of 2023 that thatI went through on YouTube.
And then here's the last one.
Here's, you know, this is beating Tiger andCharlie at the PNC, an unofficial event.
But, I mean, it's just come on.
It's resting right on it.
It's not brushing.

(45:37):
It's not a brushing motion.
It's not just merely touching.
And that's all we're observing.
Yeah.
And here's the thing, folks.
Everybody with a long putter is not cheating.
Like, you look at Adam Scott, and he's got thatthing away from his body, and he uses the angle
between his arm to the forearm in order to movethat putter.

(46:00):
Right?
Yeah.
Lucas Glover.
Bernhard.
Bernhard's the one thing that does kinda driveme crazy with all of this, as soon as you
showed it to me, from the very beginning, I'mlike, holy crap.
Like, how is that not called?
It's it's visually obvious.
Right.
You know, there's a lot of stories, you know,going back to 2016.

(46:24):
I've been I've been kinda fortunate enough totalk to a few guys recently that do play
professional golf still on the on the ChampionsTour.
Yeah.
Was wondering, what do his opponents think?
And you did have a chance to speak with one ofhis playing opponents.
I guess in general is they love him.
They absolutely love the guy.
He's the nicest guy on the planet, and theyreally don't wanna say anything about, you

(46:48):
know, whether he's cheating or not cheating.
They like to bring up intent.
Is he intending to cheat?
Right?
Like, he's such a nice guy, and he probably isthe greatest guy on the planet.
Right?
Like, I'll give him that.
But is he intending to cheat?
You know, that's that's where the gray area isand and written in the rule.
It's not really written in the rule.

(47:09):
It's not in there, but that's what they go to.
I I know for sure that Miguel Angel Jimenez hasnot signed Bernhard Langer's scorecard a few
times in the early years because of of the wayhe putts.
And there's another
one as well, wasn't there?
Maybe.

(47:30):
I don't know for sure.
I'm not even gonna talk about
Okay.
But Alright.
But gonna put you on the spot.
No.
I know for sure for sure.
This is from a tour player's mouth who I justspoke to actually on Sunday night.
He was in the airport getting ready to go toCalgary from Seattle.
He told me about Jiménez and Langer's, youknow, not signing the card.

(47:52):
And officials would step in and sign the cardand say, you know, it is what it is.
So there's a lot of that stuff.
Right?
So if other players are out there, you know,trying to police this and they're not getting
any help, it's it's definitely a big issue.
Yeah.
And then you've also spoken with USGA rulesofficials, which you talked about a little bit

(48:12):
prior.
I didn't allow you to get into the kind of thesubstance behind all of that.
But tell Yeah.
Tell the audience what USGA officials aresaying about this.
So the USGA officials kinda go to what theplayers talk about, intent.
That's the first thing they go to.
So I talked to one of the I would call it oneof the head rules guys recently.

(48:36):
He was at the the U.S.
Amateur, which is going on right now.
And, you know, he brings up intent, you know,same thing, intent.
Intent's written in the rule, and that's whatwe're going with.
But we are gonna move on to the communicationsteam, hopefully, this week, and we can get more
involved with that.
But
But as you mentioned, and as you see, itdoesn't say intent anywhere within that rule

(49:01):
with Rule
Yeah.
I mean, my ball's in the divot, and I don'tknow if I bump it out of the divot, and I
didn't intend to bump it out.
You know?
I don't know.
There's a lot of things in golf that you cankinda get away with with the word intent.
Right?
Did I intend to, you know, do that kind ofstuff, you know, and get away with it?

(49:24):
You know?
I don't know.
Intent's a weird word.
It's not written in the rules.
So nine years.
So this has been going on nine years, Matt.
Yeah.
That's what's crazy.
Intent to me, you know, like, if we're incourt, you know, or a situation, if a guy has
video clips and pictures of his forearm beingon his pec, that shows me the intent is to not

(49:50):
change what you're doing and break the rules ofgolf.
That's what it means to me.
That's my view on intent.
He's not intending to keep his arm away fromhim.
You know, I'll give him the benefit of thedoubt if he brushes up against himself.
It's not that big a deal.
But when you start in the left titty and youend up in the left titty, you intend to anchor

(50:13):
the golf club.
Observation.
That's my observation.
Yeah.
And it's a very clear observation.
Right?
Like, you kinda have to be nuts if you start tounderstand what the rule actually says.
The photos, and I'll bring up that photo onemore time of the actual images from the USGA.

(50:34):
Okay?
So this is from the USGA.
This is from their website.
You look at this now.
After seeing those videos and you look at thisone over here on the right-hand side, and you
see the crease in the shirt where the forearmis, anchored point created by forearm.

(50:57):
That is in the red, folks.
That is not allowed.
So it's just like, man.
And even in the anchored long putter, like youcan see that the breast is sitting on the
forearm.
Right?
So I mean, those are illegal and you're notsupposed to be able to do that.

(51:18):
And it's just two shots.
Let me get this out of the way.
This isn't like a disqualification.
This isn't like we're gonna throw you in jail.
You know, you're a bad guy.
You know, I guarantee you if you go, hey.
That's a two-shot penalty.
He'll be on the next green away from his body.
Like, he'll make the adjustment.
This is just you know?

(51:40):
Question.
You've seen it.
Look, you've done much more research on thisthan I have.
When it comes to Bernhard in particular, arethere times where he does not anchor it
underneath his pec?
It's borderline.
It's so borderline.
It's too close.
Like yeah.
I'm gonna say for sure.

(52:01):
For sure, he's you know, sometimes he'sprobably not.
But, you know, when he needs a five, six-footerdown the stretch, you know, it's in play.
It's definitely in play down, you know, in thelast day of a tournament, it gets a little
tighter in there.
It certainly does.
I mean, you watch the one from the PNC that hemade that birdie putt in order to win and beat

(52:26):
Tiger and Charlie.
And it's in there.
I mean, it's in there.
Like, if I do this, it's in there.
And yeah.
I mean,
I'm not
and that's the other thing.
Like, it's just it's not moving at all.
Yeah.
I don't know.
It's wild.
It's an observation, folks.
And I would love to see just somebody stand up.

(52:46):
I mean, we've literally, everybody that I haveheard from in regards to this, and this
includes some USGA officials as well.
It's just not something that they're willing tocall on Bernhard.
I've talked to some caddies.

(53:07):
As the rule's written and the USGA hasbasically said is there's only one person that
can call this penalty.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And him on himself.
It's Bernhard Langer.
Yeah.
They won't do it.
They won't it.
Won't review footage.
You know, what was it?
Lowry?
Maybe six weeks ago, seven weeks ago, his ballmoved.

(53:28):
Right?
Yep.
And the cameras are in there, and we've seenthat before.
You know, they time balls that are on the lip.
They do a bunch of things behind the scenes,right, to penalize guys.
You know, why isn't this one of them, and whyis it on the player?
The one thing that I would love to hear or Iwould love to interview Bernhard.

(53:51):
Bernhard, if you if somebody knows BernhardLanger and sends them this episode, sends them
a clip, whatever it ends up being.
Okay?
I would love to interview Bernhard and ask himabout these scenarios and show him the videos
because he might not even realize that he'sdoing it.
But in watching it back, I wanna hear him andhear his explanation behind it.

(54:17):
Maybe there's a great explanation that's there.
Maybe he just comes out and is like, you knowwhat?
I like, mentally, I don't even think about it.
Unfortunately, like, maybe it gets under therefrom time to time, but I'm not actively trying.
And again, that goes to the intent side.
Well, but again,
we get into the intent rule.
How many he's got, who knows, 20,000 highlightsof him winning golf tournaments.

(54:39):
So that's the other thing, is he's won the mostChampions Tour events in history.
This guy's a highlight reel.
Right?
He's had to watch them, and, you know, that isa great thing if if if I could if we could ever
get on with the guy and and be like, hey.
Have you watched yourself?
Do you feel like you're following the rules ofgolf?
I mean yeah.

(54:59):
Do you see where this controversy comes intoplay?
Yeah.
True.
Understand why the USGA won't call it on you?
Exactly.
You know?
Look in the mirror and let's let's see what youthink.
We're not here to—we I don't hate BernhardLanger.
I mean, I just wanna get that out of the waytoo.
I have fun with this.

(55:20):
For me, this is, like, my thing on the side.
If you talk to my friends, this has been goingon a long time.
They they they think I'm insane, and and I loveevery part of this.
We wear these shirts to the Schwab Cup.
We we go out there and and follow him aroundthe whole day.
And he sees he is literally feet away from us,and he knows what's going on.

(55:46):
The other players know what's going on.
Steven Alker is supposed to be on the firsttee.
I'm getting a transfusion at the bar.
He makes his way around the first tee just tolook at my shirt just to because word-of-mouth
is going around the the place.
Tour officials are watching us.
We had a we had a posse of three sheriff'sofficers follow us the entire day.

(56:12):
When we went the other way from their groupjust to see what would happen to go to the bar
or eat something, they followed us to the bar.
We go back to the the action.
They're they're honest.
I mean, they know what's going on.
We're respectful.
We don't get kicked out.
We don't we don't hassle this guy.
We're just there to have a great time watchinggolf and and kinda just give give our views.

(56:37):
I mean, hell, Jiménez's wife, Miguel's wife,pulled us aside and took selfies with us
because they've had issues in the past and theylove it.
I mean, they absolutely love it.
I just it it's wild that, like, this has beenable to go on for so long with the anchoring.

(56:58):
And again, I would just love to have Bernhardget his version of it, to get his side of it.
Because, like, you hear an interview like hedid with Scott McCarron that we played for all
of you, and it like, there's no there's no hehe's saying that his arm is away from his body.
Nothing is touching his body.
When he feels his arm is not touching his body,he putts.

(57:21):
That's
not true.
No.
Yeah.
It's kinda like maybe maybe that's his yipright now.
Maybe that's what he feels and that's notreally what's going on for nine
I would just love to hear it from him.
But, yeah, even the caddies and so forth,they're just like, yeah, nobody's going to call
it on him.
And that's what it's just wild to me that wehave this rule that is not.

(57:44):
But
wanna Let me look up this real fast.
Yeah.
I have What
are we looking up?
I have a message from a caddy on the ChampionsTour.
And and this is this is just the quote.
It says, I hate that dude with all my heart,and I never look at him without thinking you
fucking cheater.
That's what he said.

(58:04):
That's a caddy out there.
You know?
I mean, it goes deep.
It goes real deep.
So nine years of this, you know, and he's wonthe most tournaments ever.
There is a bubble at the end of every season,and, you know, five to eight guys don't get
their cards that might have if rules areplayed, you know, by the rule book.

(58:29):
Right?
So if they if they call them on this ruleearly, you know, you can't go back in time,
obviously.
But, you know, if they just did what they'resupposed to do, the rules officials, you know,
maybe wouldn't be here today watching thefull-on anchoring.
But, you know, guys' careers are at stake.
Don't have to go back to Q School.

(58:49):
They don't have to grind their way back ontothe Champions Tour, which is the hardest tour
to get on.
It's, you know, five guys.
Five guys in the world get on this tour everyyear, and then it goes down the line depending
on who's playing in tournaments, but, you know,five guys.
And if you lose your card, you gotta go back toplaying, you know, TPC Champions Course and try

(59:13):
to get in the top five and then get your, youknow, somewhere on the list to get into some
events later on.
It's just wild to me.
It's absolutely wild.
And you're right.
I think they didn't call it initially, and thenit got to a certain breaking point to where
they're just like, we can't call this.
Like, it's gone on too long.
Yeah.
We can't go back now.

(59:35):
Our guy though.
He's our guy.
He's the Tiger Woods, the Scottie Scheffler ofthe champion, and this is it.
This is his final year.
And, you know, he's 66 maybe, and he'sfantastic.
He's phenomenal.
You know, he almost made the cut at theMasters.
Of all places, it's playing, you know, whoknows

(59:55):
how far good for the game though?
No.
It's terrible.
That you have somebody who is breaking a rule,getting away with it, and ends up because of
that cheat.
It would be like Major League Baseball saying,oh, we caught Barry Bonds doing steroids, but
we're gonna let him keep doing it because he isawesome.
Well, that's a whole other issue.

(01:00:17):
I mean, I'd like to see every baseball playeron anything they wanna be on, and let's have
some fun.
Yeah.
Buttsy and I were talking about that not thatlong ago that isn't there a league that's
coming out that is gonna be you can be onwhatever you want so that there is an absolute
level playing field?
Like, you can take as many steroids as youwant.
Like, there's this league that I haven't heardanything about it lately though, so I don't

(01:00:41):
know if it just kinda fizzled out or not.
But there's supposed to be a league to wherelike, you could take whatever you want.
And that way, anybody can do what they want andit would be a level playing field.
And it was all different types of sports.
So it'd be pretty crazy to see golf in thatway.
But that's why there's rules of golf, man.
That's why this whole thing is wild to me thatit's going on this long.

(01:01:06):
When you introduced me to it, I was like, holycrap.
Like, this is a real problem.
So this isn't good in any way.
To touch yeah.
One more thing about the USGA.
They are in works.
It's in works right now to change verbiage onthis rule.
This is from the tour source.
Guy plays on the Champions Tour.

(01:01:27):
It's basically, you know, gonna state thatthere has to be a visible gap the entire time.
So that is coming.
We'll see.
I mean, the next rules change is 2028.
So okay.
That's ball change, anchoring change a littlebit.
Yeah.
Bernhard will be gone by then.

(01:01:48):
Right.
He'll be hitting key shots on the first holeout of Augusta.
At the Masters.
Yeah.
Exactly.
Alright.
Let's real quick before we hop off heretonight.
Let's talk a little golf.
FedEx Cup, St.
Jude Championship was this past weekend.
And, you know, Justin Rose had one of theultimate stretches heading in through the

(01:02:09):
playoff.
And just to get into the playoff, take usthrough what Justin Rose had to do over that
final stretch of holes.
Well, I think he birdied four of the last fiveand to get into it.
And then two birdies out of the three playoffholes.

(01:02:31):
That's crazy.
And I don't think enough people are talkingabout that stretch of holes.
No.
I mean, like, if you look at Justin Rose, likeBrent has been all about Justin Rose this year.
Yeah.
He is.
And Rose has played phenomenal all year, buthasn't got the W.
And, yeah, it was just like his stretch.

(01:02:52):
It was his run.
It was like his moment, and Justin Rose isphenomenal.
His career has been, you know?
I think he was 17 years old in the BritishOpen.
Right?
Yeah.
You know, he holed that final shot and heturned pro and then missed who knows how many
cuts.
Like
Oh my god.
He went through such a slump.
Cuts for
something straight.

(01:03:12):
And, you know, he's a fighter.
He's a lot like Bernhard Langer.
Right?
Like, he's figured it out.
You know?
Do I like Justin Rose's demeanor and the way heplays?
And you know, he's Justin Rose, and it is whatit is.
He's 45, I believe, and he's out there winningon the tour still.
I mean, it's phenomenal.

(01:03:32):
He's phenomenal.
He knows he can still compete.
And, you know, he's been working hard.
He just works.
They work hard.
And you know what they say about closers, Trot.
A wise man once said, can't be a closer if youdon't close.
Oh.
And he closed.
And J.J.
Spaun.
I mean, you know, it's probably Scheffler thisyear, but Spaun, you know, depending on what he

(01:03:56):
does next couple events, you know, he'sphenomenal.
J.J.
Spaun, he's the everyday average guy.
He's my skateboarder.
You know, he was playing phenomenal too in theplayoffs.
So
Somebody needs to do a documentary on him.
And they need to I hope that they have somefootage of him just being a regular dude

(01:04:17):
heading into the U.S.
Open and then how that ultimately and Iwouldn't even say changed his life because it
doesn't seem like it's changed him at all.
He's just now, like, he's got more confidenceheading into events.
Obviously, he was right there with Justin Rosegoing back and forth and then happened to hit a
bad putt on the third playoff hole.
So, yeah, that being said

(01:04:40):
But here's the deal.
Is these playoffs I know they're super early inthe year.
Like, it's 114 degrees in Phoenix, Arizona, andwe're watching playoffs.
Was it there's two more events?
Is that it?
Yeah.
Two
more.
And it's watchable.
This is totally watchable.
Like, it's entertaining, and this is what PGATour golf is all about.

(01:05:02):
I agree.
Talking about that, Justin Rose did mention toowhy he turned down LIV Golf because he felt
like he could still compete at this high leveland was really happy that he made the decision
he did.
But then we got Tommy Fleetwood and anothercollapse by good old Tommy.
You're gonna go into Tommy Fleetwood.
Good Lord.

(01:05:22):
Talking about this with the guys at themember-guest, everybody knows at this point
that Tommy Fleetwood is gonna choke.
That at some point, it's gonna happen.
There's gonna be a collapse.
We even had one guy, we're in the pool, guyscoming in and out like telling us what's going
on.
One guy comes out and he's like, oh, TommyFleetwood tripled a hole.

(01:05:43):
He's out of it now.
And everybody bought it.
Everybody believed it because it was verybelievable.
It's like, oh, shit.
Not again.
And I was gutted.
Gutted for Tommy Fleetwood.
But I wanna ask you because you made a postabout this with Tommy Fleetwood's caddie.
You know, what's the deal with the caddie onthe final hole just nonchalantly looking away,

(01:06:07):
making Tommy do everything on his own, andrealistically having to pull the club?
He didn't even have a club ready for him.
Yeah.
I mean so Fleetwood let me let me pull up hisholes, but sixteen's a par 5, I believe.
And he hits the second shot way long, right,makes par.

(01:06:28):
I don't know what he did on on 17, but 18, hehits it long again.
They're not picking the right clubs.
They're not hitting the right distances, andthey both look shook.
They both look like we're out of thetournament.
We're defeated.
We're not gonna do this.
We're not gonna win this week.
Right?
But in my mind, as an observer, I still see achip-in opportunity to get to a playoff.

(01:06:54):
Right?
I mean, that's the dream.
Like, that's what we all dream about as kids.
Let's chip it in.
Let's get into a playoff.
I'm gonna be as a caddie.
So the clip I posted, the caddie is basicallybehind Tommy.
He's not in front of him.
And they have a stand bag for the week, and thestand bag is on the ground already.

(01:07:16):
And Tommy is looking it over.
He walks back, and he has to flip around, grabthe wedge out of his bag, flip back around, and
then hit the shot.
And anybody this is this is caddie basics 101.
This is what they teach you at caddie schools.
You gotta be in front of the player.

(01:07:37):
You gotta hold the bag up so he can pick theclub out and hit the shot right in front of
you.
And none of that was happening.
Maybe they're both totally frustrated, andthat's an issue.
That's all I'm saying on that.
But the caddie, in my mind like, if I'mcaddying on the tour, you know, I want my guy

(01:07:59):
to make it.
I wanna get in the playoff.
I'm gonna do everything I can to make this guyuse less energy during the round of golf, and
that didn't happen.
He was the caddie wasn't even looking at him.
No.
He wasn't.
He was looking off just kinda with, like, JoeCool kinda look, you know?
Yeah.
Kinda like, oh, nonchalant.

(01:08:20):
Like, I don't really care what's going on rightnow.
Like, that was kind of the vibe from Tommy'scaddie.
And it wasn't a good look.
Like, it wasn't a good look for his caddie.
It wasn't a good look for Tommy.
And obviously, Tommy didn't chip in.
Tommy is losing.
I think
I'm into it so much with Tommy and because, youknow, we obviously wanna see him win.

(01:08:41):
A lot of guys have invested a lot of money, Ifound out, into Tommy Fleetwood betting-wise
because they're waiting for that breakthroughto happen and it just hasn't happened.
But there's a lot of sunken money that has goneinto Tommy Fleetwood breaking through for the
first time.
Yeah.
He'll get there.
He'll do it.

(01:09:01):
You think so?
Oh, yeah.
For sure.
He's way too good.
He's way too good, you know?
The wild thing is, like, he's won, what, fiveor six times over on the European Tour?
Yeah.
Maybe seven.
Yeah.
It's like, it's not like he can't win.
It's just that he's got a mental block rightnow.
When it comes to there's a Guinness.
Can you grab it?

(01:09:22):
Now Yeah.
As we talk about Tommy Fleetwood moving intothe next one, we got Scottie Scheffler.
Okay?
Scottie Scheffler, another top five.
Is Scottie Scheffler destined to repeat thisyear, you believe, for the FedEx Cup?
Is he gonna repeat?
Yeah.
What are the standings right now?
Let's let's look at that.

(01:09:43):
What do you got?
So let's pull it up.
You know what?
We will pull that up.
Give me a second.
PGA two
So what are the standings?
Let's get to the FedEx Cup.
K.
Here's right now.
Yes.
Oh, he's in first.

(01:10:03):
But remember, they removed the 10-shot startingpoint in the final tournament.
Well, a lot of it has to do with Rory.
Rory's he's he's at the golf course already.
Okay.
So Scottie Scheffler, he's sitting in first.
Right?
Rory's in second, JJ Spaun in third, JustinRose, Sepp Straka, Russell Henley, Ben Griffin,

(01:10:27):
Tommy Fleetwood, Justin Thomas, Harris English.
But you could tell by the points.
My God.
He's up 2,000,000 points.
Or is that 2,000?
That's two
No.
No.
That's official.
Fifty-four fifty-six to three thousandforty-four four four.
Yeah.
That that's 2,100 and or, that's 2,012.

(01:10:50):
Appreciate it.
He is up points-wise over Rory McIlroy whodecided, by the way, to skip the St.
Jude.
Yeah.
It's good.
It's fine.
It's Rory.
Let him do what he wants to do.
He has this he can do that.
Right?
He can.
I mean, it but now all of a sudden, they'vealready said there's gonna be a rules change
next year, so you can't do that.

(01:11:12):
Well, I mean, it's fine.
It's fine.
You know?
It it may backfire.
It may help.
Who knows?
Rory's Rory.
Rory's in his own world.
You know?
He's doing his thing.
I I'm liking the guy in third right now.
I am rooting for that guy in third.
JJ Spaun.
I want him to win the FedEx Cup.
He needs two good events.
He's playing phenomenal.
That's my guy.

(01:11:33):
You know where JJ Spaun's gonna be a little bitof a liability is when we get to the Ryder Cup.
No.
Bethpage Black with how long it is, I do notthink he is long enough for that.
The team event.
You know, he he's a he's a team guy.
Like, he's he's your normal dude.
He he will be just fine.

(01:11:54):
I hope you're right.
I I really do because like goodness.
We will not live this down as Americans if wedo not get this done.
At the stage level. Last?
Last?
You know when we've won last as America?
The last time in America.
Well.
Because we were the cup holders heading over toItaly.
It was Italy, right?
I was in for JJ.

(01:12:15):
Rooting for JJ.
I like that.
Another quick commentary around this was aroundRickie Fowler.
Where's Rickie?
And they were talking about how somebody shouldnot be able to get into the FedEx Cup if all
they've done all year is play off of sponsorexemptions.
How do you feel about that?

(01:12:36):
Six sponsor exemptions.
Had a lot.
You're fine with it?
Love it.
I'm fine with it.
I mean, they let these college kids in now.
No problem.
You know?
True.
You're not wrong.
Is you know?
Rickie's at the bottom of the top 50 right now,sitting in forty-eighth place.

(01:12:57):
And then we got Bud Cauley at 46.
Yeah.
I mean, shows you how good Rickie is still, andhe should be there.
He's fine.
Bud Cauley, that's another one I'm rooting for.
He had a hell of a tournament last week.
David Geiss, is it?
Geiss.
David Geiss living a dream.
Oh, right.
He's loving life.
Absolutely loving life with Bud Cauley.

(01:13:20):
Xander Schauffele is a bit of a surprisesitting in forty-third this year.
Yeah.
What do you think has been going on withXander?
Xander's been hurt.
He was hurt for maybe half the year.
Right?
Like, you know TGL.
Yeah.
Where's that gone by the way?
Is that coming back?
Oh, it's coming back.
They got a new franchise too.

(01:13:43):
Well, you know, maybe no TGL for him anymore.
Yeah.
Right?
He seemed a bit disinterested after a littlebit, but he got into it as they moved into the
championship.
Let's see.
I mean, that's pretty much it.
This week, we got the BMW Championship.
Do you know where the BMW Championship's gonnabe held at?

(01:14:04):
It's gonna be at Caves Valley in Owings Mills.
What is that?
Missouri?
Hang on.
Where is I don't know exactly where that'slocated.
Yeah.
I've never even heard of the golf course.
I've heard of I've heard of the golf course.
I don't know where it's located.
Let's just look it up here.
So we've got look at this place.

(01:14:26):
Is this the place?
Am I correct on this?
There can't be two Caves Valleys, can there?
I don't know.
I'm I'm a bit stumped at that.
I didn't think it was in Maryland.
Let's go to course.
Owings Mills.
Yep.
Owings Mills, Maryland.
Alright.
Fair enough.
We're going par 70?

(01:14:47):
Yeah.
Look at
70 this place six zero one.
Par 70.
The BMW always travels around.
Right?
Year or two ago, was in Delaware.
I remember there was a BMW in New Jersey.
This It
It looks always beautiful.
The Liberty National
had a BMW, I believe.
Of course, it looks very nice.

(01:15:09):
Ridgewood Country Club.
I mean, this looks incredible.
I'm absolutely it's gonna be awesome.
I mean, it's something that we haven't seenfrom the PGA Tour.
I don't believe anyways.
I don't think it's ever been there.
And it's the playoffs.
People tune in.
It's exciting.
It has grown on me.
And I will say that the St.
Jude, I'm like, I don't really care.

(01:15:29):
And then all of a sudden, come Sunday with abunch of golf guys, we're all sitting there
watching the damn thing.
It's coming down the stretch and thatleaderboard was great.
I just this week, I'm gonna be interested inseeing them playing this golf course.
That golf course looks unreal.
It looks fun.
Yeah.
Looks pure.

(01:15:51):
You got anything else as we kinda head towardsthe twilight here?
I mean, I feel like you've been in the BlairWitch Project for the past 30 minutes.
No.
It it's good.
I I on, like, our side of things, I really loveworking with you.
You know, as you know, we we've worked out anagreement that our agreement is our agreement

(01:16:14):
with with kinda instructing you.
I love it.
I I think this makes me a better person just ingeneral.
Just to for you to listen to my knowledge andfor you to to to kinda just put it in play and
and trust it, you know, that's a big leap.
And and and I enjoy I I love every part of it.

(01:16:35):
You know, it's shaping your golf game a littlebit, and and it's going really well.
It's not shaping it a little bit.
You're shaping it a lot.
I mean, you've had a a major impact on my golfgame and getting me back to a place to where
like I feel like I can play.
And that's Yeah.
That's exciting.
Nice.
It's a ton of fun.

(01:16:55):
Every every Tuesday, we get together at 11 a.m.
and, I look forward to it every week.
It's a blast.
Thank you.
It's my prep before this show.
No.
Thank you.
I appreciate you taking the time and doing thisand working with me and, trying to make me less
of a robot out there.
I absolutely love it.
We'll you I'm gonna get you to be Fred Astairebefore you know it.

(01:17:19):
Love that.
And again, I wanna thank you for coming ontonight, breaking down everything around
Bernhard Langer and the he might be cheatingfolks, might be cheating but that's just an
observation.
Obviously, you are entitled to your ownopinions and we applaud that.
We love that here on the Pull Hook Golfpodcast.

(01:17:40):
You know, we have some strong opinionsourselves.
So you, everybody that listens has to deal withthat, which I can greatly appreciate.
And it's been fun.
This 5 a.m.
comeback, this journey and putting together theright team and you're a big part of that, it's
just it's been a shit ton of fun.

(01:18:01):
It's been a grind too.
Like, it's not all fun.
Like, I will I will say that.
Like, there have certainly been days to whereit's like, shit, man.
I gotta wake up at 4:45 a.m.
I gotta take this photo of me in bed.
I can barely open my eyes.
And it's like, alright, we gotta get going.
God And that's been a big motivator as well.

(01:18:22):
Just that accountability, being consistent.
And I wanna give a shout out to our sponsors,Endeavor Golf.
Pullhook Golf 20 is the promo code there for20% off.
Vice Golf promo code is pullhook 15% off overthere.
Rockform is pullhook twenty twenty five for 20%off over at rockform.com.

(01:18:42):
And again, shout out to Jones Golf, shout outto Stark Health for helping me with the 5 a.m.
comeback.
And again, it's been an absolute journey andI'm glad that, you know, people are getting a
kick out of it.
I I get a ton of feedback from people that Ijust didn't realize how powerful this whole
thing is.

(01:19:03):
There's been a ton of DMs, tons of messages offof those stories.
And folks, if you want to see the 5 a.m.
comeback, right now it is just being posted onthe Pull Hook Golf story.
There will be more content coming out around itvery soon.
So you'll end up seeing that on all the PullHook Golf pages, on the YouTube channel, and so
forth as we kind of move into the third monthbecause that is coming right around the corner.

(01:19:30):
But without further ado, peace out everybody.
down.
Thank you, Josh.