October 18, 2024 • 23 mins
In this episode of the Purdue Commercial AgCast, Chad Fiechter hosts Michael O'Donnell, a regional manager at Belltown Farms, who focusing on converting conventional farms to organic. The discussion highlights Belltown's operations across multiple states, emphasizing organic grain production. The conversation covers the strategies and challenges of transitioning conventional farms to organic production, the state of organic grain markets, and the impact of consumer trends on organic agriculture. Michael shares insights on crop rotations, equipment, personnel, and market demands, emphasizing the shift towards domestic organic grain production. The episode concludes with optimism for the future of organic farming and Michael's dedication to promoting sustainable agriculture.
Podcast provided by Purdue University's Center for Commercial Agriculture. The transcript from the discussion can be found at https://purdue.ag/agcast176.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Chad Fiechter (00:05):
Welcome to the Purdue Commercial
AgCast, the Purdue UniversityCenter for Commercial
Agriculture's podcastfeaturing farm management
news and information.
I'm your host today,Chad Fiechter.
I'm an assistant professor,and I'm the instructor of
the advanced farm managementclass here in the Department
for Agricultural Economics.
So we bring in speakers, uh,to speak to the students.
And so I've invited oneof the speakers to join
(00:27):
me for a conversation.
With me is Michael O'Donnell,so I'm gonna let him introduce
himself, and, um, you've had apretty unique career journey,
and maybe tell us a littlebit about you, and then about
that unique career journey.
Michael O'Donnell (00:39):
Yeah, sure.
Thanks for having me.
Um, had a unique journeyinto agriculture.
I did not grow up infarming or in agriculture
and in fact, don't evenhave any, direct education
or degree in agriculture.
I did attend PurdueUniversity, have a
bachelor of science inmechanical engineering.
(01:01):
I worked in the engineeringindustry for a while for
General Electric PowerSystems and for Cummins, the
diesel engine manufacturerdown in Columbus, Indiana.
There I did have someinterface with agriculture.
I was working on whatthey call current product
support on control systemsin their diesel engines
and on the industrialside, and that included
(01:21):
agricultural equipment.
So I often find myselfat a farm troubleshooting
engine control problems.
So that was kind of my firstexposure to agriculture.
But I went back to gradschool down at University
of Texas at Austin, inmechanical engineering, but
found myself working witha very interdisciplinary
research team where allof our work was kind of
(01:42):
at the interface of energytechnologies and policy.
And I found myself onan EPA funded project
looking at biofuels.
So doing some life cycleanalysis of biofuel production
and also kind of a policyassessment of the newly
passed, what turned therenewable fuel standard
into, kind of ramped it up.
(02:03):
I think it was calledRFS2 for short.
So with that I needed tostudy more about corn and
soybean production as thefeedstocks for biofuels.
And as I dove into that Ijust started getting very
interested in agriculture,farming, sustainability.
And one thing led to another.
I did I did wrap up mygraduate studies and thesis
(02:23):
and left University of Texaswith a master of science
in mechanical engineering.
But while doing that, startedworking on a large certified
organic vegetable operation,then found myself back in
Indiana with a, diversifiedgrain and livestock operation
in west central Indiana.
Had my own small marketfarm with my family for
(02:44):
a lot of years, and thenfound myself, working with
Purdue University with thecooperative extension service.
Worked in Delaware county asan ag educator, supporting
the range of peopleworking in the agricultural
industry in that county.
Um, and then found myselfin a role as a statewide
organic agriculture specialistwith the Extension service.
(03:07):
And that was a newposition at the time.
And just based on wherequestions were coming and
where I saw the need forsupport from Extension
and where resources,you know, could help out
was specifically in thearea of grain farming.
More and more farmersinterested in looking
at organic, getting intoorganic, transitioning land.
Uh, so that is really what gotme into organic grain farming
(03:29):
and that whole industry.
Um, so I did that for alittle over four years, but
then, ran into an opportunitywith a farm about 30 minutes
north of Purdue's campuswith an operation called
Living Prairie Family Farms.
At the time was mostlya conventional operation
with I think one field inorganic and an interest
(03:50):
in transitioning the wholefarm, which was a little
over 4,000 acres to organic.
So I joined the team andbecame worked directly with
the farm owner on helping himwork through that process.
Currently, I find myselfworking with a company
called Belltown Farms in arole as a regional manager,
supporting a couple oftheir farming operations
(04:12):
in the United States.
Chad Fiechter (04:15):
So, in your role with Purdue, when I think
about the organic productionindustry, you spent a lot of
time with smaller farms kindof early on, and then this,
this kind of part of yourcareer you've spent with kind
of these larger operations.
So can you tell us alittle bit about Belltown
and what you're doingcurrently at a high level,
(04:37):
and then what your role is?
Michael O'Donnell (04:39):
Yeah.
Yeah, sure.
Yeah.
And in my time inExtension, I worked
with farms of all sizes.
I worked with smalldiversified farms, small
vegetable operations to largeconventional grain farms.
And then in my role inthe organic position, a
lot of the farmers I wasworking with were large
conventional grain operationstransitioning into organic.
Chad Fiechter (04:59):
Sure.
Michael O'Donnell (05:00):
Belltown purchases farmland.
Currently we operate infive different states.
That could increase.
Um, and we're typicallylooking to purchase
areas of land of about2,500 acres or more.
We just find that that'skind of a sweet spot.
If we go any smaller theeconomies of scale just
aren't there for the typeof farming we're doing.
(05:21):
Currently, Belltown ownssomething around 25,000
acres, but we operateon about 30,000 acres.
It's five differentstates currently.
New York, Illinois, Michigan,Texas and Nebraska, with
nearly half of the portfolioof the company in Nebraska.
Chad Fiechter (05:42):
Okay.
Michael O'Donnell (05:42):
So Belltown's goal is to
transition the land that weown and lease to certified
organic production.
So most of the landthat we take over is,
conventionally managed.
And so we have to takeit through the three year
transition process, whichis part of the USDA organic
program, the rules fororganic farming regulations.
(06:04):
In order to get it certifiedorganic and sell products
as organic that we produce.
Our focus is onproducing organic grains.
Um, so like anyconventional farm, corn
and soybeans and wheat,different types of wheat.
Out West, we're doing a lotof hard red winter wheat,
but we're also on otherfarms doing soft wheat,
some hard red spring wheat.
(06:26):
We have some barleyproduction on some farms.
And then some other smallerniche crops like buckwheat.
And some sorghum we're playingaround with on some farms.
And then hay, depending on thefarm and what we have going
on and the rotation and whatkind of land we're managing.
We also have some alfalfaproduction and mixed grass
hay on some of these farms.
(06:48):
But the goal is thatall this land gets
transitioned to organic.
We're focused on producingorganic grains to supply
the organic food industry.
Um, we're definitely focusedon trying to produce food
crops, but a lot of ourcrops also go into the
organic livestock industry.
So dairies that needfeed stuffs and poultry.
(07:08):
Those are two big partsof the organic industry.
So we supply those butalso Increasingly looking
to supply food processors.
Chad Fiechter (07:16):
Yeah.
Great.
How about, so yourspecific role now is.
Michael O'Donnell (07:20):
Yeah.
So as mentioned, my roleis as a regional manager.
So we have several regionalmanagers, at Belltown farms
and each of us overseeand support two to three
different farms withinthe company's portfolio.
And so what that meansis that we work directly
with, the teams that wehave on the ground at the
(07:41):
farms, which are comprisedof farm manager, assistant
farm manager and a team ofoperators, depending on the
scale of the farm that'sgoing to dictate, you know
how many operators we got.
And it's one ofour larger farms.
We even have some otherfocus positions like
irrigation management or anoperations manager if it's
a big enough farm But theregional managers are there
(08:01):
to support those farm teams,collaboratively work with
the farm managers, and thenalso other folks within the
company's management financepeople working on budgets.
But essentially making surethat our farm teams have what
they need to do the job thatthey need to do effectively.
And hit the goals that weset for each of our farms.
Chad Fiechter (08:22):
Yeah, sure so you shared that you
and Dr Michael Langemeiergenerated some crop budgets
here for Indiana when youwere working with extension.
You mentioned your currentinterest in growing alfalfa.
How do you make decisionsabout your crop mix
on all of these farms?
Is it dictated by, uh, demand?
(08:43):
Are you getting askedto produce things?
Or is this just you'reseeing some opportunity and
then transitioning acresinto production of X crop?
Michael O'Donnell: Yeah, great question. (08:52):
undefined
And there's a lot ofpieces to that, I guess.
As I mentioned, the company'sfocus is on, on grain
production in the organicspace and supplying, the
organic industry with grains.
Whether that's foodprocessors or livestock users.
And there has been generally,a demand domestically that
(09:17):
needed to be satisfied withdomestic grain production
because we've historicallysatisfied a lot of the demand
for dairy, for poultry, etcetera, with, with imports.
It was not too long agothat we were actually
importing the majority ofthe organic corn and soybeans
used in the United States.
Chad Fiechter (09:38):
I did not know that.
Michael O'Donnell (09:38):
Of, you know, a big push of
transitioning acreage andinterests amongst, grain
farmers here in the U.S.
that shifted pretty quicklyto where we went from, you
know, 75 percent or more oforganic corn being imported to
now it's, it's, I, I haven'tfollowed those statistics
closely, so don't, don't quoteme on it, but I believe it's,
it's well under 25 percentof the corn is imported.
(10:01):
It may be a lotless than that.
Soybeans were over80 percent imported.
And that has sinceshifted quite a bit.
So the idea is we need toproduce this domestically.
Supply the industry here.
It's an opportunity.
And traditionally, youknow, the price premium,
if you want to call it thatover conventional commodity
(10:21):
grains, was attractiveenough to, you know, where
it's a good business caseto pursue that opportunity.
But in terms of the mix on agiven farm, it's really going
to be dictated where, youknow, markets that are nearby
where there's opportunity,whether it's dairy farms or, a
broker that brokers grain intodifferent buyers or, a food
(10:43):
processor, is gonna, informwhere we're selling crops.
But generally we're startingat least with a base crop
rotation that might looklike corn, soybean, wheat.
Right?
So maybe a traditional,conventional Indiana
crop rotation.
I know here in Indiana meansmostly corn, soybean as a
rotation, but traditionally,you know, there was wheat.
(11:05):
And there still iswheat has its place in
conventional grain farming.
But that's what we'relooking at as kind of
a baseline rotation.
Okay.
Rotation is very importantin organic cropping systems
because of a lot of toolsthat we can't use, no
herbicides, things like that.
So weed management, the croprotation goes a long way in
helping to address some ofthose agronomic challenges.
(11:26):
So we're also, looking tohave cover crops integrated
throughout that rotation.
That base three croprotation is kind of
where we like to start.
And then if there are otheropportunities to expand
that rotation or integratedifferent crops like barley or
edible beans, we might pursuethose kinds of opportunities.
Chad Fiechter (11:44):
Okay.
Michael O'Donnell: so as an example (11:45):
undefined
Chad Fiechter (11:46):
there's a potential here, so maybe we
should explore this crop.
Michael O'Donnell (11:49):
Yeah.
And a great example, one ofthe farms that I manage is in
the Hudson Valley of New York.
Chad Fiechter (11:54):
Mm hmm.
Michael O'Donnell: Unique place to be (11:55):
undefined
operating a grain farm.
And it looks very differentfrom the other farms in
Belltown's portfolio.
Because of the land it'son, we're farming pretty
small fields, highlyvariable soil types.
Um, you know, I like tosay we're farming patches.
but an advantage there is thatwe're on the East Coast, close
(12:16):
to huge metropolitan areas.
I don't know howmuch of the U.
S.
population is right there.
We could probablyget to half the U.
S.
population within aday's drive or something.
So because of that,there's a lot of unique
market opportunities.
Almost all of our productionis focused there on food
grade opportunities.
Um, Looking to sell cornto tortilla processors.
(12:39):
Um, where we have contractedproduction on all our small
grains to go to eitherMolsters, going into the you
know, the brewing industry.
And Milling grade wheat sosome spring wheat winter
wheat going to mills payingpremiums, you know, compared
(12:59):
to what we might find forMidwest organic wheat prices.
We're also raising buckwheat'cause there's one of,
I think maybe one of twobuckwheat processors in the
United States is based about120 miles from that farm.
Chad Fiechter (13:13):
So that, with that specific farm,
was kind of that purchase,was it motivated by kind of
a strategic, we see theseprocessors, or are you
mainly looking for theseplots of lands where you can
produce, and then it goes,so, compared to Nebraska,
western Nebraska, wasthere a reason to go there.
Michael O'Donnell (13:31):
the New York farm, you know, I think
part of it is there's a uniqueopportunity there but I think
historically and I wasn'tinvolved originally with the
purchase of that farm, but Ithink some of the motivation
for it is you know, thatfarm sits on the East Coast.
Perhaps we could get someexposure with that farm.
People are interestedin the company.
Um, it's easy to getpeople to that farm.
(13:53):
Rather than, hey, why don'tyou go visit one of our
farms over here in WesternNebraska where you're going
to fly into North Platteand then drive three hours.
You know, so it's, it's agood farm where if we want
to show people what we'redoing, it can, be a bit
of a, showcase, but, butit's, it's still focused on
profitability of that farm.
Chad Fiechter (14:11):
So, in your strategic role that you
have now for these farmswhat's the thing keeping
you up at night or whatare you thinking about?
Michael O'Donnell (14:21):
There's a number of things both,
in the day to day decisionmaking of these farms, and
some of the higher levelthings that we're looking
at as a company and thatanybody in the organic grain
industry is concerned about.
But, you know, a little morespecifics about what I do
in this regional managerrole, as I mentioned, it's
essentially make sure thatmy farm teams have what they
need to manage these farmswell and hit yield goals.
(14:45):
stay within our operatingbudget, try to hit
profitability numbersthat we want to hit.
Anything from crop planning.
What does the croprotation look like?
Which fields aregetting what crops?
Variety selection.
Working with a farm managerdirectly on variety selection.
What covered cropsare going where?
Timing of everything.
How are we executing on that?
(15:05):
What's the wholecrop plan look like?
Making sure that the farmteam is executing on that
because we try to definecertain windows of when we
want to get things done.
How the farm is tooled up.
So what equipmentdo we have in place?
And for each farm we havea specific equipment budget
that we operate within.
And so at each farm wesell and buy equipment and
(15:26):
just make sure that we'reoperating within that budget.
So, how a givenfarm is tooled up.
It's always evolvinglike any farm.
And that's a big partof the work that I do
with my farm managers.
Chad Fiechter (15:36):
Real quick, on like a, let's say, let's take
a 2, 500 acre farm, what, likefrom a functional standpoint,
what looks different frompersonnel and equipment
versus just a traditionalsort of commercial,
farm of the same size?
Michael O'Donnell (15:50):
Yeah.
I mean, if you pulled upand just saw what the fields
look like, if it's a wellmanaged organic farm, you
may not know the difference.
If you step into acorn or soybean field.
Again, if it's wellmanaged, right?
The weed profilemight look different.
You know, what kind of specieswe're working with and the
weed pressures that we have.
In terms of how it's tooledup, you're likely going
(16:12):
to see a few more powerunits, a few more tractors.
Chad Fiechter (16:16):
Um,
Michael O'Donnell (16:18):
You, you may or may not see a sprayer.
Chad Fiechter (16:21):
hmm.
Michael O'Donnell (16:21):
You know, we're not out there applying
herbicides, fungicides, etc.
But some organic farms doa lot of foliar feeding.
Right now, at Belltown, wearen't doing a lot of that.
So you're not going tosee a sprayer our farms.
Unless it's a one off wherewe're working with a co
op to do an application.
One major thing that you'regoing to see that's different
(16:43):
is you're likely going to seemore tillage equipment because
we're generally going to bemore relying on tillage, as
part of our weed control, youknow, weed management system.
There are no till rotational,no till systems that work
in organic, but generallyspeaking, we're going to
be relying on tillage.
And you're going to seecultivation equipment.
(17:04):
So row cultivators, tineweeders, rotary hose, and
then possibly, depending onthe scale of the farm and
the kind of equipment capitalwe can, we can justify, you
might see, you know, weedburner, um, or weed zapper.
So weed zapper is generallyused for, managing weeds that
(17:24):
get up over a soybean canopy.
You get an idea.
electrocute those weeds.
Chad Fiechter (17:29):
Yeah, sure.
Michael O'Donnell (17:30):
So, so, you know, scale, you know,
scale of equipment and thetype of equipment that you see
in terms of the tractors andcombine and, you know, even
most of the tillage equipment.
It's going to look just likea grain operation, but you're
going to see probably a littlemore tillage equipment then
your weed management tools.
Chad Fiechter (17:49):
How about personnel?
Do you think you have acouple, a person or two?
Michael O'Donnell (17:52):
Generally speaking, you're going
to have more people.
Chad Fiechter (17:55):
Okay.
Because you're in the fieldsmore often doing those tillage
passes, which that's littlemore labor intensive than
a sprayer running through.
Michael O'Donnell: That's right. (18:05):
undefined
Chad Fiechter (18:05):
Yeah.
Okay.
How about, so from a highlevel, what's the, are you
thinking about as far asthe industry, how it relates
to kind of conventional rowcrops and just in general?
Michael O'Donnell (18:19):
Yeah, I think one of the things that
we're seeing right now inorganic grains is, prices are
somewhat depressed compared towhere they had been, you know,
was just a couple of yearsago, two, three years ago, you
could get soybean contractsfor, 35 to 40 a bushel.
And now they're at leastin the kind of the Corn
(18:43):
Belt area, we're lookingat 18 to maybe 20..
Chad Fiechter (18:49):
Okay.
Michael O'Donnell (18:49):
And for corn, you know, not too long
goes anywhere from 10 forfeed grade up to 14 for, for
some food grade contracts.
And now we're, we're lookingat, I mean, some areas are
below 7 bushel, but it couldbe anywhere from there to,
you know, eight, eight 50,depending on where you are.
So very different positionin terms of pricing.
(19:11):
the premium is stillthere over conventional
commodities, but, feelingthe pinch in terms of finding
profit on these farms,like any grain right now.
Some of the reasons forthat are perhaps unique
within the organic industry.
Um, understanding wheremarkets are headed is, is
(19:32):
pretty difficult to wrap forme to wrap my head around it.
And I think for, for othersto know where we're headed.
And one, one thing that Ithink is unique to the organic
industry in this regard isthe fact that we do still
import a substantial quantityof corn and soybeans and
also wheat from other areas.
(19:53):
And so those supplies,you know, create some
uncertainty and what, what'sthe price point on those,
those imported supplies.
And there's, there's beenfor years, major questions
around some of the, integrityof some of those imports.
Chad Fiechter (20:11):
Sure.
Michael O'Donnell (20:12):
Meaning, Is it really organic?
Chad Fiechter (20:15):
Right.
Because we can't, we can'treally test and tell.
Michael O'Donnell (20:18):
Right.
I mean, you can at leasttell that it's non gmo,
which is required in Youcould theoretically do some
pesticide resin testing,but yeah, it's difficult.
It's a paperwork chain andthe USDA has implemented,
has been implementing thisyear a new rule that adds to
the national organic programcalled the strengthening
(20:40):
organic enforcement rule.
Which is looking to addresssome of the loopholes
that have allowed some ofthese things to happen,
but it's, you know, theindustry has a way to go.
Chad Fiechter (20:49):
So,
Michael O'Donnell (20:49):
But, I think, that's not the only
piece of it, there's generallyquestions, in terms of organic
food and what is the consumer?
Their, their foodpurchasing decisions,
where are they headed?
A unique thing that we sawwas during COVID, a lot of
organic purchasing went up.
The organic dairy industrysaw very positive gains.
(21:11):
Something as subtle as likeorganic popcorn sales were up.
It's because we shiftedfrom where here in the
United States, we mostly,you know, we spend more
than half of our dollars,outside of grocery stores.
Eating out.
You know, restaurants, foodinstitutions, et cetera.
But during COVIDthat all shifted into
(21:33):
the grocery stores.
So people were making morechoices at the grocery
store to choose organic.
And we a lot ofthat demand come up.
But as we moved out ofCOVID, we saw some of that
come back off and soften.
So just, you know,where is that consumer
landscape headed?
You know, we've seencontinuous growth in organics
for very long time sincethat label has existed.
(21:54):
And you know, willthat continue?
We sure hope so I thinkconsumers are gonna always
be looking for a quoteunquote clean food label.
Um, but you know how much itcontinues to grow, are there
gonna be other competitivelabels in the marketplace?
Those create some uncertainty.
Chad Fiechter (22:12):
So, real quick, because I want to
wrap up with a question here.
Can you give us somethingoptimistic that you can
share about kind of yourjob or where you think the
industry is heading that'slike, yeah, this is cool.
Michael O'Donnell (22:22):
Oh, I mean, despite some of
these uncertainties inthe marketplace and the
currently where we findprices and whatnot, I have
no doubt that, the organicgrain landscape will, you
know, it's going to rebound.
It'll continue andprove it has its ups and
downs like any industry.
And.
I just get excited workingwith a company like Belltown
that is wholly focused on,taking farmland and moving
(22:45):
it into the organic space,getting it out of conventional
production into a differentsystem of management that,
a lot of consumers want tosupport and be a part of.
And to play a role in thatshift of land into organic
and regenerative management.
I'd love to be a part of it.
Chad Fiechter (23:04):
That's great.
Michael, thanks forbeing the guinea pig
on this thing with me.
I appreciate it a lotand hopefully it's the
beginning of more to come.
Michael O'Donnell: Yeah, very good. (23:11):
undefined
I appreciate it.
Thanks.
Welcome to the Purdue Commercial
AgCast, the Purdue UniversityCenter for Commercial
Agriculture's podcastfeaturing farm management
news and information.
I'm your host today,Chad Fiechter.
I'm an assistant professor,and I'm the instructor of
the advanced farm managementclass here in the Department
for Agricultural Economics.
So we bring in speakers, uh,to speak to the students.
And so I've invited oneof the speakers to join
(00:27):
me for a conversation.
With me is Michael O'Donnell,so I'm gonna let him introduce
himself, and, um, you've had apretty unique career journey,
and maybe tell us a littlebit about you, and then about
that unique career journey.
Michael O'Donnell (00:39):
Yeah, sure.
Thanks for having me.
Um, had a unique journeyinto agriculture.
I did not grow up infarming or in agriculture
and in fact, don't evenhave any, direct education
or degree in agriculture.
I did attend PurdueUniversity, have a
bachelor of science inmechanical engineering.
(01:01):
I worked in the engineeringindustry for a while for
General Electric PowerSystems and for Cummins, the
diesel engine manufacturerdown in Columbus, Indiana.
There I did have someinterface with agriculture.
I was working on whatthey call current product
support on control systemsin their diesel engines
and on the industrialside, and that included
(01:21):
agricultural equipment.
So I often find myselfat a farm troubleshooting
engine control problems.
So that was kind of my firstexposure to agriculture.
But I went back to gradschool down at University
of Texas at Austin, inmechanical engineering, but
found myself working witha very interdisciplinary
research team where allof our work was kind of
(01:42):
at the interface of energytechnologies and policy.
And I found myself onan EPA funded project
looking at biofuels.
So doing some life cycleanalysis of biofuel production
and also kind of a policyassessment of the newly
passed, what turned therenewable fuel standard
into, kind of ramped it up.
(02:03):
I think it was calledRFS2 for short.
So with that I needed tostudy more about corn and
soybean production as thefeedstocks for biofuels.
And as I dove into that Ijust started getting very
interested in agriculture,farming, sustainability.
And one thing led to another.
I did I did wrap up mygraduate studies and thesis
(02:23):
and left University of Texaswith a master of science
in mechanical engineering.
But while doing that, startedworking on a large certified
organic vegetable operation,then found myself back in
Indiana with a, diversifiedgrain and livestock operation
in west central Indiana.
Had my own small marketfarm with my family for
(02:44):
a lot of years, and thenfound myself, working with
Purdue University with thecooperative extension service.
Worked in Delaware county asan ag educator, supporting
the range of peopleworking in the agricultural
industry in that county.
Um, and then found myselfin a role as a statewide
organic agriculture specialistwith the Extension service.
(03:07):
And that was a newposition at the time.
And just based on wherequestions were coming and
where I saw the need forsupport from Extension
and where resources,you know, could help out
was specifically in thearea of grain farming.
More and more farmersinterested in looking
at organic, getting intoorganic, transitioning land.
Uh, so that is really what gotme into organic grain farming
(03:29):
and that whole industry.
Um, so I did that for alittle over four years, but
then, ran into an opportunitywith a farm about 30 minutes
north of Purdue's campuswith an operation called
Living Prairie Family Farms.
At the time was mostlya conventional operation
with I think one field inorganic and an interest
(03:50):
in transitioning the wholefarm, which was a little
over 4,000 acres to organic.
So I joined the team andbecame worked directly with
the farm owner on helping himwork through that process.
Currently, I find myselfworking with a company
called Belltown Farms in arole as a regional manager,
supporting a couple oftheir farming operations
(04:12):
in the United States.
Chad Fiechter (04:15):
So, in your role with Purdue, when I think
about the organic productionindustry, you spent a lot of
time with smaller farms kindof early on, and then this,
this kind of part of yourcareer you've spent with kind
of these larger operations.
So can you tell us alittle bit about Belltown
and what you're doingcurrently at a high level,
(04:37):
and then what your role is?
Michael O'Donnell (04:39):
Yeah.
Yeah, sure.
Yeah.
And in my time inExtension, I worked
with farms of all sizes.
I worked with smalldiversified farms, small
vegetable operations to largeconventional grain farms.
And then in my role inthe organic position, a
lot of the farmers I wasworking with were large
conventional grain operationstransitioning into organic.
Chad Fiechter (04:59):
Sure.
Michael O'Donnell (05:00):
Belltown purchases farmland.
Currently we operate infive different states.
That could increase.
Um, and we're typicallylooking to purchase
areas of land of about2,500 acres or more.
We just find that that'skind of a sweet spot.
If we go any smaller theeconomies of scale just
aren't there for the typeof farming we're doing.
(05:21):
Currently, Belltown ownssomething around 25,000
acres, but we operateon about 30,000 acres.
It's five differentstates currently.
New York, Illinois, Michigan,Texas and Nebraska, with
nearly half of the portfolioof the company in Nebraska.
Chad Fiechter (05:42):
Okay.
Michael O'Donnell (05:42):
So Belltown's goal is to
transition the land that weown and lease to certified
organic production.
So most of the landthat we take over is,
conventionally managed.
And so we have to takeit through the three year
transition process, whichis part of the USDA organic
program, the rules fororganic farming regulations.
(06:04):
In order to get it certifiedorganic and sell products
as organic that we produce.
Our focus is onproducing organic grains.
Um, so like anyconventional farm, corn
and soybeans and wheat,different types of wheat.
Out West, we're doing a lotof hard red winter wheat,
but we're also on otherfarms doing soft wheat,
some hard red spring wheat.
(06:26):
We have some barleyproduction on some farms.
And then some other smallerniche crops like buckwheat.
And some sorghum we're playingaround with on some farms.
And then hay, depending on thefarm and what we have going
on and the rotation and whatkind of land we're managing.
We also have some alfalfaproduction and mixed grass
hay on some of these farms.
(06:48):
But the goal is thatall this land gets
transitioned to organic.
We're focused on producingorganic grains to supply
the organic food industry.
Um, we're definitely focusedon trying to produce food
crops, but a lot of ourcrops also go into the
organic livestock industry.
So dairies that needfeed stuffs and poultry.
(07:08):
Those are two big partsof the organic industry.
So we supply those butalso Increasingly looking
to supply food processors.
Chad Fiechter (07:16):
Yeah.
Great.
How about, so yourspecific role now is.
Michael O'Donnell (07:20):
Yeah.
So as mentioned, my roleis as a regional manager.
So we have several regionalmanagers, at Belltown farms
and each of us overseeand support two to three
different farms withinthe company's portfolio.
And so what that meansis that we work directly
with, the teams that wehave on the ground at the
(07:41):
farms, which are comprisedof farm manager, assistant
farm manager and a team ofoperators, depending on the
scale of the farm that'sgoing to dictate, you know
how many operators we got.
And it's one ofour larger farms.
We even have some otherfocus positions like
irrigation management or anoperations manager if it's
a big enough farm But theregional managers are there
(08:01):
to support those farm teams,collaboratively work with
the farm managers, and thenalso other folks within the
company's management financepeople working on budgets.
But essentially making surethat our farm teams have what
they need to do the job thatthey need to do effectively.
And hit the goals that weset for each of our farms.
Chad Fiechter (08:22):
Yeah, sure so you shared that you
and Dr Michael Langemeiergenerated some crop budgets
here for Indiana when youwere working with extension.
You mentioned your currentinterest in growing alfalfa.
How do you make decisionsabout your crop mix
on all of these farms?
Is it dictated by, uh, demand?
(08:43):
Are you getting askedto produce things?
Or is this just you'reseeing some opportunity and
then transitioning acresinto production of X crop?
Michael O'Donnell: Yeah, great question. (08:52):
undefined
And there's a lot ofpieces to that, I guess.
As I mentioned, the company'sfocus is on, on grain
production in the organicspace and supplying, the
organic industry with grains.
Whether that's foodprocessors or livestock users.
And there has been generally,a demand domestically that
(09:17):
needed to be satisfied withdomestic grain production
because we've historicallysatisfied a lot of the demand
for dairy, for poultry, etcetera, with, with imports.
It was not too long agothat we were actually
importing the majority ofthe organic corn and soybeans
used in the United States.
Chad Fiechter (09:38):
I did not know that.
Michael O'Donnell (09:38):
Of, you know, a big push of
transitioning acreage andinterests amongst, grain
farmers here in the U.S.
that shifted pretty quicklyto where we went from, you
know, 75 percent or more oforganic corn being imported to
now it's, it's, I, I haven'tfollowed those statistics
closely, so don't, don't quoteme on it, but I believe it's,
it's well under 25 percentof the corn is imported.
(10:01):
It may be a lotless than that.
Soybeans were over80 percent imported.
And that has sinceshifted quite a bit.
So the idea is we need toproduce this domestically.
Supply the industry here.
It's an opportunity.
And traditionally, youknow, the price premium,
if you want to call it thatover conventional commodity
(10:21):
grains, was attractiveenough to, you know, where
it's a good business caseto pursue that opportunity.
But in terms of the mix on agiven farm, it's really going
to be dictated where, youknow, markets that are nearby
where there's opportunity,whether it's dairy farms or, a
broker that brokers grain intodifferent buyers or, a food
(10:43):
processor, is gonna, informwhere we're selling crops.
But generally we're startingat least with a base crop
rotation that might looklike corn, soybean, wheat.
Right?
So maybe a traditional,conventional Indiana
crop rotation.
I know here in Indiana meansmostly corn, soybean as a
rotation, but traditionally,you know, there was wheat.
(11:05):
And there still iswheat has its place in
conventional grain farming.
But that's what we'relooking at as kind of
a baseline rotation.
Okay.
Rotation is very importantin organic cropping systems
because of a lot of toolsthat we can't use, no
herbicides, things like that.
So weed management, the croprotation goes a long way in
helping to address some ofthose agronomic challenges.
(11:26):
So we're also, looking tohave cover crops integrated
throughout that rotation.
That base three croprotation is kind of
where we like to start.
And then if there are otheropportunities to expand
that rotation or integratedifferent crops like barley or
edible beans, we might pursuethose kinds of opportunities.
Chad Fiechter (11:44):
Okay.
Michael O'Donnell: so as an example (11:45):
undefined
Chad Fiechter (11:46):
there's a potential here, so maybe we
should explore this crop.
Michael O'Donnell (11:49):
Yeah.
And a great example, one ofthe farms that I manage is in
the Hudson Valley of New York.
Chad Fiechter (11:54):
Mm hmm.
Michael O'Donnell: Unique place to be (11:55):
undefined
operating a grain farm.
And it looks very differentfrom the other farms in
Belltown's portfolio.
Because of the land it'son, we're farming pretty
small fields, highlyvariable soil types.
Um, you know, I like tosay we're farming patches.
but an advantage there is thatwe're on the East Coast, close
(12:16):
to huge metropolitan areas.
I don't know howmuch of the U.
S.
population is right there.
We could probablyget to half the U.
S.
population within aday's drive or something.
So because of that,there's a lot of unique
market opportunities.
Almost all of our productionis focused there on food
grade opportunities.
Um, Looking to sell cornto tortilla processors.
(12:39):
Um, where we have contractedproduction on all our small
grains to go to eitherMolsters, going into the you
know, the brewing industry.
And Milling grade wheat sosome spring wheat winter
wheat going to mills payingpremiums, you know, compared
(12:59):
to what we might find forMidwest organic wheat prices.
We're also raising buckwheat'cause there's one of,
I think maybe one of twobuckwheat processors in the
United States is based about120 miles from that farm.
Chad Fiechter (13:13):
So that, with that specific farm,
was kind of that purchase,was it motivated by kind of
a strategic, we see theseprocessors, or are you
mainly looking for theseplots of lands where you can
produce, and then it goes,so, compared to Nebraska,
western Nebraska, wasthere a reason to go there.
Michael O'Donnell (13:31):
the New York farm, you know, I think
part of it is there's a uniqueopportunity there but I think
historically and I wasn'tinvolved originally with the
purchase of that farm, but Ithink some of the motivation
for it is you know, thatfarm sits on the East Coast.
Perhaps we could get someexposure with that farm.
People are interestedin the company.
Um, it's easy to getpeople to that farm.
(13:53):
Rather than, hey, why don'tyou go visit one of our
farms over here in WesternNebraska where you're going
to fly into North Platteand then drive three hours.
You know, so it's, it's agood farm where if we want
to show people what we'redoing, it can, be a bit
of a, showcase, but, butit's, it's still focused on
profitability of that farm.
Chad Fiechter (14:11):
So, in your strategic role that you
have now for these farmswhat's the thing keeping
you up at night or whatare you thinking about?
Michael O'Donnell (14:21):
There's a number of things both,
in the day to day decisionmaking of these farms, and
some of the higher levelthings that we're looking
at as a company and thatanybody in the organic grain
industry is concerned about.
But, you know, a little morespecifics about what I do
in this regional managerrole, as I mentioned, it's
essentially make sure thatmy farm teams have what they
need to manage these farmswell and hit yield goals.
(14:45):
stay within our operatingbudget, try to hit
profitability numbersthat we want to hit.
Anything from crop planning.
What does the croprotation look like?
Which fields aregetting what crops?
Variety selection.
Working with a farm managerdirectly on variety selection.
What covered cropsare going where?
Timing of everything.
How are we executing on that?
(15:05):
What's the wholecrop plan look like?
Making sure that the farmteam is executing on that
because we try to definecertain windows of when we
want to get things done.
How the farm is tooled up.
So what equipmentdo we have in place?
And for each farm we havea specific equipment budget
that we operate within.
And so at each farm wesell and buy equipment and
(15:26):
just make sure that we'reoperating within that budget.
So, how a givenfarm is tooled up.
It's always evolvinglike any farm.
And that's a big partof the work that I do
with my farm managers.
Chad Fiechter (15:36):
Real quick, on like a, let's say, let's take
a 2, 500 acre farm, what, likefrom a functional standpoint,
what looks different frompersonnel and equipment
versus just a traditionalsort of commercial,
farm of the same size?
Michael O'Donnell (15:50):
Yeah.
I mean, if you pulled upand just saw what the fields
look like, if it's a wellmanaged organic farm, you
may not know the difference.
If you step into acorn or soybean field.
Again, if it's wellmanaged, right?
The weed profilemight look different.
You know, what kind of specieswe're working with and the
weed pressures that we have.
In terms of how it's tooledup, you're likely going
(16:12):
to see a few more powerunits, a few more tractors.
Chad Fiechter (16:16):
Um,
Michael O'Donnell (16:18):
You, you may or may not see a sprayer.
Chad Fiechter (16:21):
hmm.
Michael O'Donnell (16:21):
You know, we're not out there applying
herbicides, fungicides, etc.
But some organic farms doa lot of foliar feeding.
Right now, at Belltown, wearen't doing a lot of that.
So you're not going tosee a sprayer our farms.
Unless it's a one off wherewe're working with a co
op to do an application.
One major thing that you'regoing to see that's different
(16:43):
is you're likely going to seemore tillage equipment because
we're generally going to bemore relying on tillage, as
part of our weed control, youknow, weed management system.
There are no till rotational,no till systems that work
in organic, but generallyspeaking, we're going to
be relying on tillage.
And you're going to seecultivation equipment.
(17:04):
So row cultivators, tineweeders, rotary hose, and
then possibly, depending onthe scale of the farm and
the kind of equipment capitalwe can, we can justify, you
might see, you know, weedburner, um, or weed zapper.
So weed zapper is generallyused for, managing weeds that
(17:24):
get up over a soybean canopy.
You get an idea.
electrocute those weeds.
Chad Fiechter (17:29):
Yeah, sure.
Michael O'Donnell (17:30):
So, so, you know, scale, you know,
scale of equipment and thetype of equipment that you see
in terms of the tractors andcombine and, you know, even
most of the tillage equipment.
It's going to look just likea grain operation, but you're
going to see probably a littlemore tillage equipment then
your weed management tools.
Chad Fiechter (17:49):
How about personnel?
Do you think you have acouple, a person or two?
Michael O'Donnell (17:52):
Generally speaking, you're going
to have more people.
Chad Fiechter (17:55):
Okay.
Because you're in the fieldsmore often doing those tillage
passes, which that's littlemore labor intensive than
a sprayer running through.
Michael O'Donnell: That's right. (18:05):
undefined
Chad Fiechter (18:05):
Yeah.
Okay.
How about, so from a highlevel, what's the, are you
thinking about as far asthe industry, how it relates
to kind of conventional rowcrops and just in general?
Michael O'Donnell (18:19):
Yeah, I think one of the things that
we're seeing right now inorganic grains is, prices are
somewhat depressed compared towhere they had been, you know,
was just a couple of yearsago, two, three years ago, you
could get soybean contractsfor, 35 to 40 a bushel.
And now they're at leastin the kind of the Corn
(18:43):
Belt area, we're lookingat 18 to maybe 20..
Chad Fiechter (18:49):
Okay.
Michael O'Donnell (18:49):
And for corn, you know, not too long
goes anywhere from 10 forfeed grade up to 14 for, for
some food grade contracts.
And now we're, we're lookingat, I mean, some areas are
below 7 bushel, but it couldbe anywhere from there to,
you know, eight, eight 50,depending on where you are.
So very different positionin terms of pricing.
(19:11):
the premium is stillthere over conventional
commodities, but, feelingthe pinch in terms of finding
profit on these farms,like any grain right now.
Some of the reasons forthat are perhaps unique
within the organic industry.
Um, understanding wheremarkets are headed is, is
(19:32):
pretty difficult to wrap forme to wrap my head around it.
And I think for, for othersto know where we're headed.
And one, one thing that Ithink is unique to the organic
industry in this regard isthe fact that we do still
import a substantial quantityof corn and soybeans and
also wheat from other areas.
(19:53):
And so those supplies,you know, create some
uncertainty and what, what'sthe price point on those,
those imported supplies.
And there's, there's beenfor years, major questions
around some of the, integrityof some of those imports.
Chad Fiechter (20:11):
Sure.
Michael O'Donnell (20:12):
Meaning, Is it really organic?
Chad Fiechter (20:15):
Right.
Because we can't, we can'treally test and tell.
Michael O'Donnell (20:18):
Right.
I mean, you can at leasttell that it's non gmo,
which is required in Youcould theoretically do some
pesticide resin testing,but yeah, it's difficult.
It's a paperwork chain andthe USDA has implemented,
has been implementing thisyear a new rule that adds to
the national organic programcalled the strengthening
(20:40):
organic enforcement rule.
Which is looking to addresssome of the loopholes
that have allowed some ofthese things to happen,
but it's, you know, theindustry has a way to go.
Chad Fiechter (20:49):
So,
Michael O'Donnell (20:49):
But, I think, that's not the only
piece of it, there's generallyquestions, in terms of organic
food and what is the consumer?
Their, their foodpurchasing decisions,
where are they headed?
A unique thing that we sawwas during COVID, a lot of
organic purchasing went up.
The organic dairy industrysaw very positive gains.
(21:11):
Something as subtle as likeorganic popcorn sales were up.
It's because we shiftedfrom where here in the
United States, we mostly,you know, we spend more
than half of our dollars,outside of grocery stores.
Eating out.
You know, restaurants, foodinstitutions, et cetera.
But during COVIDthat all shifted into
(21:33):
the grocery stores.
So people were making morechoices at the grocery
store to choose organic.
And we a lot ofthat demand come up.
But as we moved out ofCOVID, we saw some of that
come back off and soften.
So just, you know,where is that consumer
landscape headed?
You know, we've seencontinuous growth in organics
for very long time sincethat label has existed.
(21:54):
And you know, willthat continue?
We sure hope so I thinkconsumers are gonna always
be looking for a quoteunquote clean food label.
Um, but you know how much itcontinues to grow, are there
gonna be other competitivelabels in the marketplace?
Those create some uncertainty.
Chad Fiechter (22:12):
So, real quick, because I want to
wrap up with a question here.
Can you give us somethingoptimistic that you can
share about kind of yourjob or where you think the
industry is heading that'slike, yeah, this is cool.
Michael O'Donnell (22:22):
Oh, I mean, despite some of
these uncertainties inthe marketplace and the
currently where we findprices and whatnot, I have
no doubt that, the organicgrain landscape will, you
know, it's going to rebound.
It'll continue andprove it has its ups and
downs like any industry.
And.
I just get excited workingwith a company like Belltown
that is wholly focused on,taking farmland and moving
(22:45):
it into the organic space,getting it out of conventional
production into a differentsystem of management that,
a lot of consumers want tosupport and be a part of.
And to play a role in thatshift of land into organic
and regenerative management.
I'd love to be a part of it.
Chad Fiechter (23:04):
That's great.
Michael, thanks forbeing the guinea pig
on this thing with me.
I appreciate it a lotand hopefully it's the
beginning of more to come.
Michael O'Donnell: Yeah, very good. (23:11):
undefined
I appreciate it.
Thanks.
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