January 4, 2024 • 39 mins
As we walk the basepaths of life, the steps we take with our friends and mentors remain imprinted in the dirt behind us. On my latest podcast, I was joined by John Vodenlich, the lauded UW Whitewater Warhawks Baseball team coach, who's rounding the bases to the National Coaches Hall of Fame. Our conversation, rich with nostalgia from our Racine roots, delved into John's extraordinary career, his embrace of humility in the spotlight, and the steadfast connections that keep our lives intertwined despite the whirlwind of social media and public acclaim.
John cracked open his playbook on leadership, sharing the secret sauce behind fostering a self-motivated team culture and the vital role of intrinsic motivation. We peeled back the layers of what it takes to steer a team to victory and the nuanced art of empathetic decision-making. The journey is not just about scoring runs; it's about the weight of releasing players and guiding them to their next opportunity, all while maintaining the delicate balance between high standards and compassionate leadership.
Our banter rounded third with reflections on chasing purpose in our careers, the importance of rolling with life's curveballs, and the joy found in the intersections of work, family, and personal passions. John's story is a home run of insights on finding equilibrium amidst the demanding schedules that come with coaching and the warmth of having a supportive family cheering you on, both from the stands and at home. Tune in, warm up your heartstrings, and get ready to be inspired by a man whose life lessons extend far beyond the diamond.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey, welcome.
This is Charlie Shaw, akaLittle Mel podcast.
I'm sitting here with John vonLisch.
He's the coach of thewhitewater Warhawks Baseball
team here on whitewater,wisconsin.
Let me tell you a little bitabout John.
Mr Vaughn, well, coach VaughnLisch actually won 700, 700
(00:23):
games in 20 years.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
There might be more now.
But it might be more now.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
It might be more now, yeah you have some very
impressive accolades here10-time Wisconsin
Intercollegiate AffleckConference Coach of the Year, 14
conference titles, 6 conferencechampionships.
Wow, John man, I was away for awhile.
I missed all this you did.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Yeah, it's all right, you were doing your thing.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Yeah, right, yes, sir .
Regional Coach of the Year sixtimes.
What else is it?
National Coach of the Year andhonors in 2005, 2014.
That's when you won, when youguys won the championship here,
right, exactly.
Well, I came home to visit Johnand I grew up together in
(01:09):
Racine, wisconsin.
I think we've known each othersince before we were teenagers
Baseball, basketball, that was.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
RYS yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
RYS yeah, he played mainly on Tony's team, always
played with the Sertiman squad.
Yeah, exactly right, yeah.
And then we we broke loose inmiddle school and then caught
back up in high school where weall played football together.
John, you didn't mess withtrack too much, you was baseball
.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
I was fall football and hockey.
You played hockey in the winter, your first two years of high
school.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Did you play all through high school?
Speaker 2 (01:47):
No, then my exactly first two years I played hockey
in the winter and then afterthat just football and baseball.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Right, you concentrated on football and
baseball and then John wasactually our quarterback, ran
Wishbone for, yeah, for CoachVite's team.
We rest in peace, coach Vite.
We actually Coach Champions oursenior year.
Yeah, I played defense,defensive line and they wanted
me to play offense, but I didn'twant any of that Offensive line
(02:17):
.
But we had a good time, grew uptogether.
We always stayed in touch overthe years and I'm very proud
that he's been a very goodfriend over the years.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Yeah, a pleasure yeah .
Speaker 1 (02:26):
John, I want to thank you for letting me interview
you.
I came into town and, john,it's ironic how I planned this
trip at the last minute and youcall me like two days before,
and I was like damn, there's nophone tap.
There's no, because this guyknew exactly what I was going to
(02:47):
be coming into town.
But anyway, I'm glad that wegot to hook up and see one
another.
We're always going to befriends.
Good to see you.
So I asked John, will you takethe time out to let me interview
him?
I just recently retired and I'mtrying to make this podcast a
nice little hobby, something todo, keep myself busy over time.
So John was nice enough to letme come up and see his
(03:09):
facilities beautiful facilities.
He put in a lot of work.
I followed him online andwatched his growth as a coach,
as a man, over the years and I'mvery proud to be associated
with a person like John.
So I said, john, I started upthis podcast and what better way
(03:30):
is to interview you and getinto it where you just got
inducted?
Well, you're going to getinducted into the National
Coaches Hall of Fame in Dallas,texas, next week, correct, yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Congratulations.
Thanks, man, I'm lookingforward to it.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
It's going to be good , but you also are in the Racine
Athletic Hall of Fame.
You're in the State Hall ofFame.
What's going on, man?
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Yeah, it's good things, man.
It was all good man.
Yeah, you know, I think if youdo something that you're
passionate about and you do itlong enough and you do it well
enough, people end up noticing,and I think that's what's
happened.
So, yeah, I'm very proud ofthat.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
We went out the other night you myself, because of
Tony Shaw and Oker, and theseare all you know.
We all grew up together and wewere sitting back talking and
one of the things that we talkedabout was staying humble.
Yeah, how do you stay humble,man, doing the things that
you've done over the years?
Being a man you're, you knowwell, you know how I mean and
(04:36):
growing young men.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
I think that has changed.
I think, with the dawn ofsocial media, so many people
want to be out there and feellike they're special and in
their way of feeling special isto see how many likes they can
get.
You know, go on social media.
So you know, humility is justnot something that's not taught
much anymore.
I mean, of course, when we grewup, that was a staple right
(05:02):
Humble and kind, and you couldbe confident, but at least you
had to act humble, right.
I think that's changed, youknow.
I mean, you see, you know, atour level, dion Sanders was a
guy right.
We grew up with Dion Sandersand he was one of the first guys
that was so boastful thatprobably in initial phases we
(05:25):
were pretty disgusted about Imean, there was better players,
whether it's Bo Jackson, or TonyGwynn or right.
And it was cooler to be humble.
Of course that's changed, man.
You know he goes to Coloradoand he's saying we coming.
So you know.
So, as far as I'm concerned,things have changed.
(05:46):
There's a number of reasons whyit's changed, but you know
that's how we grew up, right?
Your mom wouldn't allow you totalk big and act big.
She would explain to you reallyquickly, right, real quick.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
yeah, no, I come from a family.
I would explain it to you.
Right, right, yeah.
So that's how it was.
We were talking about that.
You know I was expressing toyou.
I was like man, stop, peopleknow I'm retired, let's not talk
about that anymore.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Let's not talk about what you're doing.
We're proud of you, man.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Well, I appreciate it , but I like to fly underneath
the radar.
I know you do, I know you do,but one of the things that I
wanted to talk to you about wasyour leadership.
I'm very impressed with it.
You gave me a tour of yourfacilities.
I see trophies everywhere, yeah, yeah.
And coming from where I camefrom, I was a supervisor in my
(06:35):
professional law enforcement andI prided myself on trying to
leave my men from the front, notfrom the back right, men, and
women.
I apologize.
I went at men and women fromthe front, not the back, and I
always kept my.
We had two years one of them.
I always kept my years old andlisten to what they had to say.
(07:00):
How to be a better leader andthen speak when it's time to
speak.
I got a few questions I want toask you.
Yeah, Along those lines ofbeing a leader, your leadership
styles, your experiences, yourapproach to motivating,
inspiring and empowering coaches, players family and friends,
(07:21):
First question what motivatesyou to become a baseball coach
at the collegiate level?
Speaker 2 (07:27):
So growing up, as you know, we all were involved in
athletics and so I knew at avery young age that I loved
sports and I happened to be okayin it.
So I was feeling good about whoI was as a person because I was
doing well on the field and Iwas passionate about I enjoy
going to it.
I don't ever remember having toget drug to a practice.
(07:49):
I remember wanting to go there.
So I've always been a part ofthat and I knew I was pretty
good at it.
And then I think, with manycoaches, what happens?
You realize you can't playanymore, right, you don't have
the ability or the opportunityto play anymore.
And so when that day came youknow it's a gut check you got to
figure out all right, what areyou going to do with this
(08:10):
passion?
And for me, the logicalextension of that would be
coaching.
Right, when you're done playing, you can't play anymore, but
you still want to.
You still are passionate aboutthe game and athletics.
How do you stay involved inthat?
And for me, the logical piecewas just to get into coaching.
You're all American here right.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
You're also a player here right and then you
graduated, went overseas and youplayed.
In what countries?
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Slovenia, netherlands and Italy, and you know
baseball was not big back then,right, yeah, there anyway, and I
feel like I was the Barry Bondsof, you know, european baseball
.
They treated me very, very welland I developed some lifelong
friends and I think that's thebigger piece, because it didn't
(08:57):
lead me or keep me playing.
It led me to coaching, which,you know, in the first stages of
coaching, it's not areplacement, no, you know,
getting ready on that Fridaynight lights, coaching is not a
replacement to how you fell,getting ready for the game right
that night.
So I was a little disappointedwith the coaching profession, at
least based on how I wasfeeling about it, right, because
(09:21):
it wasn't making me completelyfull.
But as you get older and wiserand you have more time, I think
you realize the importance ofcoaching, right, and you look
back at all the people thatinfluenced our lives, mm-hmm,
yeah, so it became a moreimportant thing to me as I got
older.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
I think where we grew up, it was a village.
Yeah, no doubt, no doubt, itwas a village, and it wasn't
just one demographic.
We grew up with many leaders,both positive and negative, and
we were able to identify who tofollow, who to take advice from
and carry on with life.
So what role do you believemotivation plays in effective
(10:02):
leadership?
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Yes, I think, first of all, like the idea of
motivating someone to greatness,I think, is kind of not my cup
of tea.
That's not what I think happens.
What I think happens is highperformers are intrinsically
motivated.
They're motivated from within.
Right, for example yeah RightOtani, who's one of the best
(10:26):
baseball players, just signedfor 700 million 700 million is a
lot of money.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
That's crazy.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
But he's not going to go about his business any
different now that he has 700million.
He's not motivated by 700million.
700 million came to him becauseof his performance level.
That was the reward.
That was the reward, and Idon't think money necessarily
motivates you on a day in andday out basis, and I don't think
some ra ra speech motivates you.
(10:53):
So we're always looking forinternally motivated individuals
to be a part of ourorganization, and what I think
you really want is you want tobuild a team that has a lot of
them, and when you have a lot ofthose guys that are motivated
from within not on these otherthings you end up learning from
(11:15):
each other and playing from eachother, and I think we had that
already.
I mean, you know that, we knowand had to motivate us to go out
there on a Friday night.
So I don't like the idea thatwe have to.
We're going to give them a rara speech like in the movies,
because we know that those typesof speeches do work, but they
last a short period of time sothen the question becomes is
(11:36):
what are we going to do on daytwo, day three, day four, day
1,000?
And so I do think one of thethings we can do is we can
provide the right culture, theright environment for them, and
then you put a lot of highperforming individuals together
and good things are going tohappen.
So that's how you cultivatethat environment.
I think it starts with thepeople.
(11:57):
I think somewhere along theline we forgot that.
At the core of everyorganization, at the core of
every team, every business, ourpeople.
And you can't replace everybody.
You know you need good people,and so for me, it starts with
the product we get, which is ahigh quality student athlete.
(12:19):
Our job is to retain them andthen develop them right, recruit
them, retain them and thendevelop them.
And I think, if that's yourmentality, there is a lot of
growth that happens once theyget there.
But you got to start with agood product.
You can't take someone whodoesn't want to do anything and
somehow give them a speech andthen he's going to be all right.
No, that's not going to work,yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
No, that's the same with my profession.
You motivate them so much, butthey got to pick it up.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
No doubt.
So what methods do you use tocommunicate?
And you know your shared visionand your goals that you want
each individual to, and I thinkthat's a key.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
I think the key, the number one job of a leader, is
to create vision, right, right,and I certainly have had that
here, and that was somethingthat I only shared with Coach
Miller, who was in this with mefor many, many years, and we
talked about where do we want tosee this place in five years,
10 years, 20 years down the line?
What do we see?
(13:14):
And I think that's our job whena student athlete comes here or
someone, an employee, comes toyour business, your job is to
create a vision as to what we doand where we're going to be
five years, 10 years, 20 yearsdown the line.
And then, ultimately, the nextstep is what is your role in
that vision?
So, what are you going to dowith that vision?
How is that going to help youpersonally to see my vision?
(13:36):
And so I do think, from aleadership standpoint, our
number one job is to create thatvision.
And then the next thing becomeshow do we create the journey to
make that vision happen?
Speaker 1 (13:48):
The path, yeah, the path, that's right, you speak a
lot about Coach Miller, whichfield?
Speaker 2 (13:53):
is also named after him.
Yeah, correct?
So, he was a valuable point.
Yeah, in the older I got, themore I understood him.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
It's funny how you got to get older to understand
why they stressed us out, whythey pushed us, why they sent us
certain messages that we didn'tunderstand at the time.
But as you grow you startrealizing hey, they were green.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
You didn't even know it, and that's why, when you
look at leadership and whatwe're trying to do, is it also
one of the most important thingsyou have to have is trust.
The old John Wooden saying isthat it's more about the Joes as
(14:42):
opposed to the X's and O's, orI think it might be the reverse
it's not about the X's and O's,but it's about the Joes.
So, ultimately, I think theyhave to know that you care about
them before they're going tofollow your vision, and I think
that's harder than ever today.
I think we just kind ofunderstood it, man.
I mean you looked at me andsaid, hey, do you trust him?
(15:04):
You think what he's doing, whathe's telling us, is good?
And I said yeah.
And then I asked you and webelieved in it, and I think so.
You do need that vision, you doneed to work on the path, but
then you're not going to followsomeone you don't trust Never
have.
So I do think that hassomething to do with it as well.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Oh, that segue right into the next portion.
What barriers have you found orexperience that made you think,
man, is this right for me orshould I go a different
direction?
Or was there any barriers thatcame your way?
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Well, certainly in the initial phases I never
thought I could do it, I couldmake a career out of this.
There was not a lot of coachingjobs out there.
If you're getting one, youweren't making a lot and I had
no desire to live in poverty.
So it's like how do I make thishappen?
So in the initial phases, thelack of positions in the
(16:02):
industry was a big issue.
Football led the way, followedby basketball, and baseball was
late to the party man.
We didn't have a lot offull-time positions where you
could make a living, so that wasa barrier early.
So getting that opportunity andI think a lot of young men and
women don't understand I mayhave sent out 300 resumes or
(16:25):
more and got denied.
I remember being a finalist in ajob in Australia when I was
young and I thought I was goingthere, I was getting ready to
drink some Fosters and I wasexcited and we're going to
listen to men at work andwhatever I thought it meant to
be in Australia.
I was going to do that.
But what ended up happening?
(16:45):
Of course, you get a lot ofdenials and I think people have
changed.
So then the other obstacle, Ithink is individuals have
changed over the last 30 yearsand that's not me being an old
guy who's complaining.
They've changed for the betterin many areas, but I think they
are not as resilient as theyonce were.
(17:07):
So how do you motivate someonewho you know wants to go in the
right direction but probablyhasn't taken the hits?
We have moving up?
So we have to continue toencourage them.
And how we encourage them, Ithink, has changed a little bit.
No one wants to wait anymore.
They don't want to developInstant gratification, right,
they want to know.
That's what it is.
You want to know.
Yeah, they want to know.
And if you're looking at what'shappening in the industry, the
(17:30):
transfer portal is the greatestexample of that.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
I was going to ask you about that Right.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
If you don't like where it is, just leave.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
And the tough thing for me, I'm You're affected by
that as the CEO of your baseballteam.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
Yeah, yeah, I'm impacted for it, but I also have
an issue with it, because howare we raising these young men
and women?
I mean, at the end of the day,if you're going to bail the
first time, it gets tough.
Well, I don't know.
I don't want a friend like that, I don't want a wife like that
and I don't want a teammate likethat.
So, at the end of the day, youalways have to watch out what's
happening, and one of the otherobstacles has just changed Right
(18:06):
.
As we get older, there's thingsthat change and you've got to
adapt or die.
So those are just a couple ofthe things that have been
challenging.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
How do you challenge your coaches?
Because I know your leadershipskills, but how are you
challenging your coaches?
Well, I'm actually going intothis here.
What?
Speaker 2 (18:26):
are you once again creating a vision and them
understanding a clear path or aclear understanding of what
you're looking for?
And for me there's three things, three priorities I have with
my coaches.
Number one is loyalty.
Your job is to help our program, not to help yourself.
If you help our program and youhelp me and you help the
(18:47):
players, then you're gonna bealright.
Number two work ethic.
There's not enough talking aboutthat anymore, man.
I mean, no one wants to go workfor ten dollars, so you gotta
work at it.
And then finally, then, andonly then, is the technical
skills.
So you know, I don't know whatyou did, you know in your career
, charlie, I definitely don'tunderstand your career law
(19:09):
enforcement but certainlythere's gotta be some loyalty,
there has to be a work ethic andthen after that, at a minimum,
you have to understand whatyou're doing, right, you can't,
you can't not understand it.
But I don't know if knowledgecomes in front of loyalty and
hard work, because for me thoseare the things that make all
(19:29):
people great.
Is there ability to be loyal tosomeone, and then and then,
obviously, the work ethic theyput forth in their craft.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
I think it goes back to setting a vision, setting an
expectation, announcing thatright off the front.
And if you buy, if they buy in,if they buy into it, I don't
think that they're having issues.
But you, you can identify thatwithin first five minutes of
talking to somebody, whether ornot it's about them or is it
(19:57):
about the team.
I experienced that, I knowabout that and I think that a
lot of times it's the instantgratification where people are
lost at.
I haven't came up with theformula of that.
No, none of us have I think thatfolks are built different now.
I don't know if it's theinternet or what.
(20:18):
I don't want to sound too old,but I think that everybody wants
it right now.
You have to, you have to grow,you have to grow.
You know you.
You're laying there as a child,as a baby.
You lay there, you crawl, youwalk, then you run.
You have to go through theprocess.
So pretty much the answer tothe next question is how do you
(20:41):
promote culture, continuousmotivation, high performance
with your team, especiallyduring difficult times?
Now, john, this is what I wantto ask you.
I've been in sports.
I know you're going to have tocut people.
Yeah, it's tough, it is.
Do you have empathy, empathy?
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Which one is it?
Empathy, yeah, yeah, I mean,you know, growing up like we did
it never makes you right, itnever makes you perfect, but I
do think you have to see thestruggles of others to
understand them.
I don't know you have to alwaysgo through exactly what they
(21:23):
went through, but you definitelyhave to have that empathy and
know what they're going through.
And so for me, I think I thinkif you lead that, as if you use
that as your only guiding light,is, treat people like you want
to be treated.
Try to feel how they would, howyou would be feeling if you're
(21:43):
in that situation, you can'thelp but feel for someone that
you're going to have to let go.
And you know, unfortunatelywe're not in the industry of of
mediocrity and we're not tryingto maintain a lot of people we
want.
We want the elite players, thatthat can win us games, and and
so from that standpoint, it'svery, very cut and dry and it's
(22:05):
the worst part of my job Havingto make those decisions.
I wouldn't want to make thosedecisions, but you do try to do
right by them, right?
So if they're not going to begood enough to play in your
program, you try to find them aplace that they can be
successful in.
And that may hurt you in theshort term because they might go
(22:27):
to another program and beat you, but in the long term,
ultimately they understand thatyou're upstanding and you're
fair and you're trustworthy andthat's going to play, I think,
long term.
And ultimately we got to livewith ourselves.
They don't.
So if you can't be OK with thedecisions you make and why you
made them, then you're going tostruggle long term.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
We talked about that we're not going to name off our
folks from back in the day, butyou had to redirect that
person's nephew to another team.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Yeah, correct, correct.
That happens a lot where peopleare interested in coming to a
program and you just don't thinkthat's going to be the right
fit.
If it's not good for your son,then it's not good for them.
If you would say, god, this isnot a great situation for my son
or daughter, then it's probablynot a great decision for them
(23:24):
and you really like that person.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
Yeah, yeah, all kinds of.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
It happens often where people call us my friends,
former players, our teammates,people that we grow up with.
It's happened multiple times inmy life and they'd love an
opportunity to come play here orsomewhere else and it's just
not the right fit for us andit's a tough thing.
But, like I said, at the end ofthe day I got to live with me
(23:51):
and I know I wouldn't live verywell if I lied to them and told
them what they wanted to hear.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
I'm not in the business of that I know you're
not.
I've known you a long time.
You're not in the business ofthat, you're going to tell a
person what they need to know toget to the next.
If they can't take the paththat they think that they can
take, you're going to help themwith another path.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Yeah, yeah, and I may not do the hard lifting for
them, but certainly I can be apart of pushing them in that
direction.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
So what advice would you give to aspiring leaders who
seek to motivate and inspirethose that lead?
Speaker 2 (24:29):
Well, a couple of quick career things that I think
are important.
Number one do what you love anddo what you're good at.
Those two things matter.
And then finally, do whateveryou can in the process to
develop the skillset you need.
And the old thing back when wewere in school, it was Stephen
(24:50):
Covey and the habits of highlysuccessful people, but whatever,
it's changed a little bit, butit's all been regurgitated as
well.
But the bottom line is, your jobis to do something you love, do
something you're good at, andthen develop the skills you need
to do better at it.
So never feel like work Rightand then you're not going to
work a day in your life.
(25:11):
So for me, you've got to findthose things.
And I think the other thingthat young men and women that
want to be leaders have tounderstand that you've got to do
some things you don't want todo until you get a chance to do
what you love, to do Right.
Right, it's not as simple as oh, I want to be a coach now, and
so that's all I want to do.
You might have to do somethingelse to make ends meet, and if
(25:33):
you're going to do somethingelse, then do it well.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
I folks that know me know that I like to say this
when things are getting hard orthe path that you're trying to
take is not a direct path, I'vealways told people sometimes you
just got to get uncomfortable,to get comfortable.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
Yeah, yeah, like that .
Speaker 1 (25:52):
Yeah, for sure, you have to get uncomfortable to get
comfortable.
And there's nothing wrong withbeing uncomfortable with Bill's
character.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Yeah, yeah, you bet, you bet, you get better, you get
used to it.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
John, I personally think that you're the hardest
working coach in the industry.
Doing my research on you,knowing what you've done over
the years, asking people about,it's like damn John, really
doing this thing out here.
Huh yeah, I always thought thatyou were going to try to go to
the.
You know, try to coach at theprofessional level, but you
really enjoy grooming at thislevel?
Speaker 2 (26:24):
huh, I do, I do.
And once again, you know it's awhole other level when you look
at what they're doing at thepro level.
Man, I have so much regard forpro coaches because they're
working with elite players andthey're coaching at elite level,
putting money in the game, alot of money in what we do.
(26:46):
I struggle with.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Right.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
I'm where I'm supposed to be, you know, I'm
where I'm supposed to be.
I like the fact that most ofour athletes, they're going to
be paying for their educationRight, or at least a good
portion of it, right?
No one we have has signed a$700 million contract.
So not only are we getting themto the next stage of their life
, but then we're seeing them bevery, very successful in that
(27:10):
stage, and that makes me proud,you know, and ultimately, I feel
our role in any organization,and certainly in what we're
doing here, is I want them toknow that 20 years, 25 years
away from now, they got a placeto call home.
Right, we're going to still behere.
I mean, our relationshipwouldn't be what it is if it was
(27:33):
not for the time we spenttogether on the football field
right, so not just on thefootball field, off the football
field.
Correct yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
Checking on each other, making sure each other's
right.
You know we have some breaks intime.
But of course we always wasable to catch back up, like
right where we left off at.
You know, and that's somethingto be said, you know, I
appreciate you being a friendman.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Well, I appreciate you being a friend man.
You know that.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
Yeah, no we're done with that.
All right, I'm not talking toCoach Von Lidgett right now.
All right, I'm talking to JVJohn.
How do you balance all this andcontinue to love the game while
enjoying your Fruity labor?
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Yeah, I think that balance is a tough thing to do.
I think you catch it later inlife because you think you're
going to live forever.
Certainly, we get plenty ofreminders in our life.
We spoke on this last couplemonths.
So-and-so calls you and theygot cancer.
This person calls you andthey're struggling with this.
They have a young daughterthat's not doing well.
So you know and I'm not areligious person but someone's
(28:42):
showing us a lot of signs why weshouldn't take life for granted
.
They do that on a daily basis.
Those reminders we get areimpactful and you want to always
keep that in mind as you make adecision.
Now, in my case, I'm sofortunate.
I got a great wife.
I got a great family that loveswhat we do here.
My son was our Batboy from zeroto age until he got to high
(29:08):
school.
Then he couldn't do thatanymore because he had his own
sport.
Yeah, there's nothing going on.
So for me, it's a part of who weare and that makes things
easier to maintain that balance.
I'm going to be going down toDallas, as you know, for that
Hall of Fame induction, andwhether I was going for that or
not, a good portion of my familyprobably would be going with me
(29:29):
, right, because it's somethingwe do for our program together.
So spring training, same thing.
When I go to spring training,there's a good chance that part
or all of my family will be withus.
So I think, anytime yourposition allows you to include
your family in your endeavorsno-transcript.
(29:49):
It makes that balance a littleeasier.
Now, being an MP or US Marshall, I don't know when to take your
daughter to work to his, but itbecomes a little bit more
difficult for you.
But for me, man, we're playinggames and it's fun to have the
family around.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
No, I didn't have that luxury to take them to work
with me, but I did do a few ofthose bring your dick to school
for Career Day.
The one thing that I'll alwaysremember is my daughter,
samantha, who introduced mewhile I was working at the field
.
She said like to introduce youmy dick.
(30:32):
He's a crime fighter.
I was like, oh, oh yeah, crimefighter.
I felt like putting my cape on.
Then I got to work and got thereality of it.
So tell us some things.
We got a few more minutes.
I know a few things about us,but outside of coaching, what do
(30:57):
you like to do?
Speaker 2 (30:59):
I love traveling, I love traveling, I love, I love.
I mean, europe is my placewhere I feel most comfortable.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
I know that you're yeah all over.
Seoul, yugoslavia, but thatcountry is not there anymore,
correct?
Speaker 2 (31:13):
I feel most comfortable in Yugoslavia, which
is no longer there, but I havegreat friends in Serbia, croatia
and Slovenia.
My family, as you know, is fromformer Yugoslavia.
My father was born from aSerbian father and a Slovenian
mother and my mom was 100%Croatian.
So growing up we had people andfriends from all of the former
(31:41):
states in Yugoslavia and ofcourse, later they broke up.
All the states broke up andthere was some ethnic strife and
things of that nature, and onceagain it was both that and
living in Racine gave me a wholedifferent perspective, because
I don't remember not liking toomany people.
Whether they were black or white, or from Serbia or Croatia or
(32:03):
Slovenia, or from Mexico.
I don't ever remember myparents saying to me wow, we're
not going to hang out with thembecause they're Serbian.
Never once did that happen inmy life.
It was cool, and so I feel athome in all those areas and I
have great friends there that Ireally enjoy, and so I guess my
(32:25):
hobby is traveling.
I like traveling the world andreally what I love, and that's
not only in Europe, but when I'mdown in Texas, texas is
different, yeah, texas, floridais different.
Florida is different.
So I really enjoy thedifferences more than I loathe
them.
I mean I really enjoy seeingthe things that are different.
I mean figuring out that inFlorida it's a public's right
(32:46):
Instead of Sendix I got to go topublic's Sendix.
Sendix is in my area now.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
Pick a save and Sendix.
Well, we got Pigley, Wiggly andI save a lot.
That's the only thing Irecognize from home down there
in Florida.
But Pollux is my spouse, Polluxis where my daughter works.
Yeah, so you said that's soawesome and you can't say
anything bad about Pollux.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Tell her.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
I'm coming over to get a discount.
She won't give me a discount.
You think she's going to giveyou one.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
But no man.
If I have a hobby, I guess it'straveling.
I enjoy meeting people from allover and you realize that
there's so many great people inthis world, right, and we
usually we emphasize and displaydifferences more than we do
commonalities, right, and Ithink that causes a lot of
(33:32):
problems both politically andotherwise.
Man, there's good peopleeverywhere.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Oh yeah, oh yeah.
We just need to stop playinggames with people's lives.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
Yeah, that's for another day.
Yeah, yeah, we'll talk aboutthat later.
That's for another day.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
So there's something that you brought up that I
forgot.
What's this thing that?
Okay, I remember all burningback show.
What was it, Mr 3000?
Speaker 2 (33:58):
Mr 3000 was the movie .
Speaker 1 (33:59):
So, oh, john, here has a union car right.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
Yeah, well, I had it for one year.
One year, I didn't renew it.
You didn't renew it, no.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
Would you go back to Phil?
Is that something that you'rethinking about doing when you
retire?
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Well, yeah, I would love to do it, but the reality
of it is I'm not very good at it.
It was a moment in my life andit was a cool thing and of
course it was how it all startedwas I came home and they were
doing these.
A lot of, a lot of the newsagencies were were trying to
promote an interview.
To come down to Miller Parkdown in Milwaukee and come try
(34:34):
out.
If you think you're a baseballguy, come on, try out.
And I had no desire to do this.
There was a line of 2000 people.
I said I'm not going andsitting in this line.
And I got home and my wife hadconvinced my daughter that this
is this is right on my alley,right?
I mean, I'm a baseball guy, soI should go to this thing.
And so I did it for my daughter.
I said, all right, I'm going togo down there, I'm going to
(34:54):
stand in this line, and it wasthe funniest thing ever, because
you're standing in line and thedude next to you has shorts and
a tank top on says MagicJohnson.
Right, he had never.
I know he never played baseball, but but he's in his gear, he's
in a.
You saw as the people yeah, theother, the other guy, you know
he played maybe one yearbaseball ever, and so,
(35:15):
fortunately for me, after Iwaited in that long line, I got
to the front and and the coachat UWM right was was a
consultant on that project,right.
And once again, what were theylooking for?
Baseball, people, baseball,right, it's a baseball film, and
when he saw me he's like, ohyeah, he's in.
So then, after that happened, Ihad to go through the the
(35:36):
process of getting a speakingpart right, which, of course, I
did so well at it that they cutit okay.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
So so let's just be straight.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
I did it so well you know for that one day I said I
was a union actor for one day,for one day one day they set up
the scene, I did my line and andthen they cut it all right, but
but you, you were actually onfilm catching it oh, quite a bit
.
Yeah, yeah, but that was aseparate piece that was cut.
Yeah, I was on the set probablyevery day.
Bernie Mack was an awesome,awesome individual to everybody.
(36:11):
Man, yeah, yeah, um only lovefor him.
He, he, uh, he would come onset and he would give me a hug
every day now that that wasloosely based off of all, what?
Speaker 1 (36:22):
what real life ball player?
Yeah, it was like he had 2,999hits and he was called Mr 3000
because he was struggling to getthat last hit.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
Yeah so what happened is a that he already was
inducted into Hall of Fame.
He was going into Hall of Fame.
They found out that theymiscalculated how many hits.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
He didn't have 3000 he had to go back.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
Now he's already old and he has to come back and try
to get three more hits that's agood storyline, man, good
storyline yeah, good story.
A lot of great actors in thatthat movie, and it was fun to
watch how they put somethinglike that together.
Uh, there's a home run in in inthat, in that, where Bernie
Mack has to hit a home run offus and uh, and they wanted a
real guy pitching.
(37:02):
So Doug Henry, who played forthe Brewers right, was the
pitcher.
I was a catcher and you know,and of course Bernie wasn't a
baseball player, but he had beenworking on it to try to make it
look right look real look real.
And so there's a scene in themovie where he hits a home run
and in the reality of it is he.
He barely hit it over thesecond base.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
Okay but in the movie it looked like he hit a bomb
yeah, so so it was great to seehow all that gets put together.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
Um, the director on the film also very good to
everybody was the guy who didwhiplash, okay, um, he also did
a drum line, drum line drum lineokay drum line.
Yeah, um, and he, he directedeveryone very, very well.
He was a very good person andand, um, yeah, you know it was
okay, it was good.
I think my last residual checkwas like 68 cents, so I knew not
(37:48):
much was coming after that.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
So hey, well, look, man, a lot of us would like to
be in film, but you actually did.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
Yeah, it was good yeah a lot, a lot, a lot of go
out there go out on on netflixand rent it, so I can.
There you go, he's all right,folks.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
You heard that you want to go out, check out all mr
3000 so they could get.
Uh, get another check.
That's right, that's right, allright.
Well, I'm gonna wrap up.
Is there anything you want toask me?
Is there anything that you wantto?
You know, say I want tocongratulate you again for
getting into a national hall offame.
Thank you.
Thank you, dallas.
If anybody's in Dallas areathat may view where I'm
(38:25):
listening to show, if you, ifyou see John or you want to send
them a card or something, thefolks that we um grew up with um
, right here, white water, um atuwwedu or uwwsportscom.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
There you go.
All right now you'll find mepretty quick there.
No man, it's a pleasure to seeyou, charlie man, you're doing
so well and uh, you know, I wassurprised to hear you don't know
the show Reacher.
There you go.
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
I'll watch cop shows with you.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
He's your original Reacher.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
He's your original Reacher man yeah, just I'm just
a regular all civil servant.
For what was a regular civilservant for the, for the country
and I enjoyed my.
I enjoyed my work and I'm gladthat I'm up right and standing
and made it to where where I'mat now yeah, getting ready to
venture off into something new,yeah and if you have time, I
(39:19):
love you and meet the team ohdefinitely won't benefit by
meeting you man.
All right, let's do that, allright hey folks, thank you again
, um, like thank john, one moretime for coming on my show, and
I hope that we'd be able to dothis again, maybe after um,
after the season, because you'regonna win another championship
this year.
Right, that's the plan.
There you go, bro, let's go doit all.
Right, man, take care.
Hey, welcome.
This is Charlie Shaw, akaLittle Mel podcast.
I'm sitting here with John vonLisch.
He's the coach of thewhitewater Warhawks Baseball
team here on whitewater,wisconsin.
Let me tell you a little bitabout John.
Mr Vaughn, well, coach VaughnLisch actually won 700, 700
(00:23):
games in 20 years.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
There might be more now.
But it might be more now.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
It might be more now, yeah you have some very
impressive accolades here10-time Wisconsin
Intercollegiate AffleckConference Coach of the Year, 14
conference titles, 6 conferencechampionships.
Wow, John man, I was away for awhile.
I missed all this you did.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Yeah, it's all right, you were doing your thing.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Yeah, right, yes, sir .
Regional Coach of the Year sixtimes.
What else is it?
National Coach of the Year andhonors in 2005, 2014.
That's when you won, when youguys won the championship here,
right, exactly.
Well, I came home to visit Johnand I grew up together in
(01:09):
Racine, wisconsin.
I think we've known each othersince before we were teenagers
Baseball, basketball, that was.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
RYS yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
RYS yeah, he played mainly on Tony's team, always
played with the Sertiman squad.
Yeah, exactly right, yeah.
And then we we broke loose inmiddle school and then caught
back up in high school where weall played football together.
John, you didn't mess withtrack too much, you was baseball
.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
I was fall football and hockey.
You played hockey in the winter, your first two years of high
school.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Did you play all through high school?
Speaker 2 (01:47):
No, then my exactly first two years I played hockey
in the winter and then afterthat just football and baseball.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Right, you concentrated on football and
baseball and then John wasactually our quarterback, ran
Wishbone for, yeah, for CoachVite's team.
We rest in peace, coach Vite.
We actually Coach Champions oursenior year.
Yeah, I played defense,defensive line and they wanted
me to play offense, but I didn'twant any of that Offensive line
(02:17):
.
But we had a good time, grew uptogether.
We always stayed in touch overthe years and I'm very proud
that he's been a very goodfriend over the years.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Yeah, a pleasure yeah .
Speaker 1 (02:26):
John, I want to thank you for letting me interview
you.
I came into town and, john,it's ironic how I planned this
trip at the last minute and youcall me like two days before,
and I was like damn, there's nophone tap.
There's no, because this guyknew exactly what I was going to
(02:47):
be coming into town.
But anyway, I'm glad that wegot to hook up and see one
another.
We're always going to befriends.
Good to see you.
So I asked John, will you takethe time out to let me interview
him?
I just recently retired and I'mtrying to make this podcast a
nice little hobby, something todo, keep myself busy over time.
So John was nice enough to letme come up and see his
(03:09):
facilities beautiful facilities.
He put in a lot of work.
I followed him online andwatched his growth as a coach,
as a man, over the years and I'mvery proud to be associated
with a person like John.
So I said, john, I started upthis podcast and what better way
(03:30):
is to interview you and getinto it where you just got
inducted?
Well, you're going to getinducted into the National
Coaches Hall of Fame in Dallas,texas, next week, correct, yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Congratulations.
Thanks, man, I'm lookingforward to it.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
It's going to be good , but you also are in the Racine
Athletic Hall of Fame.
You're in the State Hall ofFame.
What's going on, man?
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Yeah, it's good things, man.
It was all good man.
Yeah, you know, I think if youdo something that you're
passionate about and you do itlong enough and you do it well
enough, people end up noticing,and I think that's what's
happened.
So, yeah, I'm very proud ofthat.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
We went out the other night you myself, because of
Tony Shaw and Oker, and theseare all you know.
We all grew up together and wewere sitting back talking and
one of the things that we talkedabout was staying humble.
Yeah, how do you stay humble,man, doing the things that
you've done over the years?
Being a man you're, you knowwell, you know how I mean and
(04:36):
growing young men.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
I think that has changed.
I think, with the dawn ofsocial media, so many people
want to be out there and feellike they're special and in
their way of feeling special isto see how many likes they can
get.
You know, go on social media.
So you know, humility is justnot something that's not taught
much anymore.
I mean, of course, when we grewup, that was a staple right
(05:02):
Humble and kind, and you couldbe confident, but at least you
had to act humble, right.
I think that's changed, youknow.
I mean, you see, you know, atour level, dion Sanders was a
guy right.
We grew up with Dion Sandersand he was one of the first guys
that was so boastful thatprobably in initial phases we
(05:25):
were pretty disgusted about Imean, there was better players,
whether it's Bo Jackson, or TonyGwynn or right.
And it was cooler to be humble.
Of course that's changed, man.
You know he goes to Coloradoand he's saying we coming.
So you know.
So, as far as I'm concerned,things have changed.
(05:46):
There's a number of reasons whyit's changed, but you know
that's how we grew up, right?
Your mom wouldn't allow you totalk big and act big.
She would explain to you reallyquickly, right, real quick.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
yeah, no, I come from a family.
I would explain it to you.
Right, right, yeah.
So that's how it was.
We were talking about that.
You know I was expressing toyou.
I was like man, stop, peopleknow I'm retired, let's not talk
about that anymore.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Let's not talk about what you're doing.
We're proud of you, man.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Well, I appreciate it , but I like to fly underneath
the radar.
I know you do, I know you do,but one of the things that I
wanted to talk to you about wasyour leadership.
I'm very impressed with it.
You gave me a tour of yourfacilities.
I see trophies everywhere, yeah, yeah.
And coming from where I camefrom, I was a supervisor in my
(06:35):
professional law enforcement andI prided myself on trying to
leave my men from the front, notfrom the back right, men, and
women.
I apologize.
I went at men and women fromthe front, not the back, and I
always kept my.
We had two years one of them.
I always kept my years old andlisten to what they had to say.
(07:00):
How to be a better leader andthen speak when it's time to
speak.
I got a few questions I want toask you.
Yeah, Along those lines ofbeing a leader, your leadership
styles, your experiences, yourapproach to motivating,
inspiring and empowering coaches, players family and friends,
(07:21):
First question what motivatesyou to become a baseball coach
at the collegiate level?
Speaker 2 (07:27):
So growing up, as you know, we all were involved in
athletics and so I knew at avery young age that I loved
sports and I happened to be okayin it.
So I was feeling good about whoI was as a person because I was
doing well on the field and Iwas passionate about I enjoy
going to it.
I don't ever remember having toget drug to a practice.
(07:49):
I remember wanting to go there.
So I've always been a part ofthat and I knew I was pretty
good at it.
And then I think, with manycoaches, what happens?
You realize you can't playanymore, right, you don't have
the ability or the opportunityto play anymore.
And so when that day came youknow it's a gut check you got to
figure out all right, what areyou going to do with this
(08:10):
passion?
And for me, the logicalextension of that would be
coaching.
Right, when you're done playing, you can't play anymore, but
you still want to.
You still are passionate aboutthe game and athletics.
How do you stay involved inthat?
And for me, the logical piecewas just to get into coaching.
You're all American here right.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
You're also a player here right and then you
graduated, went overseas and youplayed.
In what countries?
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Slovenia, netherlands and Italy, and you know
baseball was not big back then,right, yeah, there anyway, and I
feel like I was the Barry Bondsof, you know, european baseball
.
They treated me very, very welland I developed some lifelong
friends and I think that's thebigger piece, because it didn't
(08:57):
lead me or keep me playing.
It led me to coaching, which,you know, in the first stages of
coaching, it's not areplacement, no, you know,
getting ready on that Fridaynight lights, coaching is not a
replacement to how you fell,getting ready for the game right
that night.
So I was a little disappointedwith the coaching profession, at
least based on how I wasfeeling about it, right, because
(09:21):
it wasn't making me completelyfull.
But as you get older and wiserand you have more time, I think
you realize the importance ofcoaching, right, and you look
back at all the people thatinfluenced our lives, mm-hmm,
yeah, so it became a moreimportant thing to me as I got
older.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
I think where we grew up, it was a village.
Yeah, no doubt, no doubt, itwas a village, and it wasn't
just one demographic.
We grew up with many leaders,both positive and negative, and
we were able to identify who tofollow, who to take advice from
and carry on with life.
So what role do you believemotivation plays in effective
(10:02):
leadership?
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Yes, I think, first of all, like the idea of
motivating someone to greatness,I think, is kind of not my cup
of tea.
That's not what I think happens.
What I think happens is highperformers are intrinsically
motivated.
They're motivated from within.
Right, for example yeah RightOtani, who's one of the best
(10:26):
baseball players, just signedfor 700 million 700 million is a
lot of money.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
That's crazy.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
But he's not going to go about his business any
different now that he has 700million.
He's not motivated by 700million.
700 million came to him becauseof his performance level.
That was the reward.
That was the reward, and Idon't think money necessarily
motivates you on a day in andday out basis, and I don't think
some ra ra speech motivates you.
(10:53):
So we're always looking forinternally motivated individuals
to be a part of ourorganization, and what I think
you really want is you want tobuild a team that has a lot of
them, and when you have a lot ofthose guys that are motivated
from within not on these otherthings you end up learning from
(11:15):
each other and playing from eachother, and I think we had that
already.
I mean, you know that, we knowand had to motivate us to go out
there on a Friday night.
So I don't like the idea thatwe have to.
We're going to give them a rara speech like in the movies,
because we know that those typesof speeches do work, but they
last a short period of time sothen the question becomes is
(11:36):
what are we going to do on daytwo, day three, day four, day
1,000?
And so I do think one of thethings we can do is we can
provide the right culture, theright environment for them, and
then you put a lot of highperforming individuals together
and good things are going tohappen.
So that's how you cultivatethat environment.
I think it starts with thepeople.
(11:57):
I think somewhere along theline we forgot that.
At the core of everyorganization, at the core of
every team, every business, ourpeople.
And you can't replace everybody.
You know you need good people,and so for me, it starts with
the product we get, which is ahigh quality student athlete.
(12:19):
Our job is to retain them andthen develop them right, recruit
them, retain them and thendevelop them.
And I think, if that's yourmentality, there is a lot of
growth that happens once theyget there.
But you got to start with agood product.
You can't take someone whodoesn't want to do anything and
somehow give them a speech andthen he's going to be all right.
No, that's not going to work,yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
No, that's the same with my profession.
You motivate them so much, butthey got to pick it up.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
No doubt.
So what methods do you use tocommunicate?
And you know your shared visionand your goals that you want
each individual to, and I thinkthat's a key.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
I think the key, the number one job of a leader, is
to create vision, right, right,and I certainly have had that
here, and that was somethingthat I only shared with Coach
Miller, who was in this with mefor many, many years, and we
talked about where do we want tosee this place in five years,
10 years, 20 years down the line?
What do we see?
(13:14):
And I think that's our job whena student athlete comes here or
someone, an employee, comes toyour business, your job is to
create a vision as to what we doand where we're going to be
five years, 10 years, 20 yearsdown the line.
And then, ultimately, the nextstep is what is your role in
that vision?
So, what are you going to dowith that vision?
How is that going to help youpersonally to see my vision?
(13:36):
And so I do think, from aleadership standpoint, our
number one job is to create thatvision.
And then the next thing becomeshow do we create the journey to
make that vision happen?
Speaker 1 (13:48):
The path, yeah, the path, that's right, you speak a
lot about Coach Miller, whichfield?
Speaker 2 (13:53):
is also named after him.
Yeah, correct?
So, he was a valuable point.
Yeah, in the older I got, themore I understood him.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
It's funny how you got to get older to understand
why they stressed us out, whythey pushed us, why they sent us
certain messages that we didn'tunderstand at the time.
But as you grow you startrealizing hey, they were green.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
You didn't even know it, and that's why, when you
look at leadership and whatwe're trying to do, is it also
one of the most important thingsyou have to have is trust.
The old John Wooden saying isthat it's more about the Joes as
(14:42):
opposed to the X's and O's, orI think it might be the reverse
it's not about the X's and O's,but it's about the Joes.
So, ultimately, I think theyhave to know that you care about
them before they're going tofollow your vision, and I think
that's harder than ever today.
I think we just kind ofunderstood it, man.
I mean you looked at me andsaid, hey, do you trust him?
(15:04):
You think what he's doing, whathe's telling us, is good?
And I said yeah.
And then I asked you and webelieved in it, and I think so.
You do need that vision, you doneed to work on the path, but
then you're not going to followsomeone you don't trust Never
have.
So I do think that hassomething to do with it as well.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Oh, that segue right into the next portion.
What barriers have you found orexperience that made you think,
man, is this right for me orshould I go a different
direction?
Or was there any barriers thatcame your way?
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Well, certainly in the initial phases I never
thought I could do it, I couldmake a career out of this.
There was not a lot of coachingjobs out there.
If you're getting one, youweren't making a lot and I had
no desire to live in poverty.
So it's like how do I make thishappen?
So in the initial phases, thelack of positions in the
(16:02):
industry was a big issue.
Football led the way, followedby basketball, and baseball was
late to the party man.
We didn't have a lot offull-time positions where you
could make a living, so that wasa barrier early.
So getting that opportunity andI think a lot of young men and
women don't understand I mayhave sent out 300 resumes or
(16:25):
more and got denied.
I remember being a finalist in ajob in Australia when I was
young and I thought I was goingthere, I was getting ready to
drink some Fosters and I wasexcited and we're going to
listen to men at work andwhatever I thought it meant to
be in Australia.
I was going to do that.
But what ended up happening?
(16:45):
Of course, you get a lot ofdenials and I think people have
changed.
So then the other obstacle, Ithink is individuals have
changed over the last 30 yearsand that's not me being an old
guy who's complaining.
They've changed for the betterin many areas, but I think they
are not as resilient as theyonce were.
(17:07):
So how do you motivate someonewho you know wants to go in the
right direction but probablyhasn't taken the hits?
We have moving up?
So we have to continue toencourage them.
And how we encourage them, Ithink, has changed a little bit.
No one wants to wait anymore.
They don't want to developInstant gratification, right,
they want to know.
That's what it is.
You want to know.
Yeah, they want to know.
And if you're looking at what'shappening in the industry, the
(17:30):
transfer portal is the greatestexample of that.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
I was going to ask you about that Right.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
If you don't like where it is, just leave.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
And the tough thing for me, I'm You're affected by
that as the CEO of your baseballteam.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
Yeah, yeah, I'm impacted for it, but I also have
an issue with it, because howare we raising these young men
and women?
I mean, at the end of the day,if you're going to bail the
first time, it gets tough.
Well, I don't know.
I don't want a friend like that, I don't want a wife like that
and I don't want a teammate likethat.
So, at the end of the day, youalways have to watch out what's
happening, and one of the otherobstacles has just changed Right
(18:06):
.
As we get older, there's thingsthat change and you've got to
adapt or die.
So those are just a couple ofthe things that have been
challenging.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
How do you challenge your coaches?
Because I know your leadershipskills, but how are you
challenging your coaches?
Well, I'm actually going intothis here.
What?
Speaker 2 (18:26):
are you once again creating a vision and them
understanding a clear path or aclear understanding of what
you're looking for?
And for me there's three things, three priorities I have with
my coaches.
Number one is loyalty.
Your job is to help our program, not to help yourself.
If you help our program and youhelp me and you help the
(18:47):
players, then you're gonna bealright.
Number two work ethic.
There's not enough talking aboutthat anymore, man.
I mean, no one wants to go workfor ten dollars, so you gotta
work at it.
And then finally, then, andonly then, is the technical
skills.
So you know, I don't know whatyou did, you know in your career
, charlie, I definitely don'tunderstand your career law
(19:09):
enforcement but certainlythere's gotta be some loyalty,
there has to be a work ethic andthen after that, at a minimum,
you have to understand whatyou're doing, right, you can't,
you can't not understand it.
But I don't know if knowledgecomes in front of loyalty and
hard work, because for me thoseare the things that make all
(19:29):
people great.
Is there ability to be loyal tosomeone, and then and then,
obviously, the work ethic theyput forth in their craft.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
I think it goes back to setting a vision, setting an
expectation, announcing thatright off the front.
And if you buy, if they buy in,if they buy into it, I don't
think that they're having issues.
But you, you can identify thatwithin first five minutes of
talking to somebody, whether ornot it's about them or is it
(19:57):
about the team.
I experienced that, I knowabout that and I think that a
lot of times it's the instantgratification where people are
lost at.
I haven't came up with theformula of that.
No, none of us have I think thatfolks are built different now.
I don't know if it's theinternet or what.
(20:18):
I don't want to sound too old,but I think that everybody wants
it right now.
You have to, you have to grow,you have to grow.
You know you.
You're laying there as a child,as a baby.
You lay there, you crawl, youwalk, then you run.
You have to go through theprocess.
So pretty much the answer tothe next question is how do you
(20:41):
promote culture, continuousmotivation, high performance
with your team, especiallyduring difficult times?
Now, john, this is what I wantto ask you.
I've been in sports.
I know you're going to have tocut people.
Yeah, it's tough, it is.
Do you have empathy, empathy?
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Which one is it?
Empathy, yeah, yeah, I mean,you know, growing up like we did
it never makes you right, itnever makes you perfect, but I
do think you have to see thestruggles of others to
understand them.
I don't know you have to alwaysgo through exactly what they
(21:23):
went through, but you definitelyhave to have that empathy and
know what they're going through.
And so for me, I think I thinkif you lead that, as if you use
that as your only guiding light,is, treat people like you want
to be treated.
Try to feel how they would, howyou would be feeling if you're
(21:43):
in that situation, you can'thelp but feel for someone that
you're going to have to let go.
And you know, unfortunatelywe're not in the industry of of
mediocrity and we're not tryingto maintain a lot of people we
want.
We want the elite players, thatthat can win us games, and and
so from that standpoint, it'svery, very cut and dry and it's
(22:05):
the worst part of my job Havingto make those decisions.
I wouldn't want to make thosedecisions, but you do try to do
right by them, right?
So if they're not going to begood enough to play in your
program, you try to find them aplace that they can be
successful in.
And that may hurt you in theshort term because they might go
(22:27):
to another program and beat you, but in the long term,
ultimately they understand thatyou're upstanding and you're
fair and you're trustworthy andthat's going to play, I think,
long term.
And ultimately we got to livewith ourselves.
They don't.
So if you can't be OK with thedecisions you make and why you
made them, then you're going tostruggle long term.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
We talked about that we're not going to name off our
folks from back in the day, butyou had to redirect that
person's nephew to another team.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Yeah, correct, correct.
That happens a lot where peopleare interested in coming to a
program and you just don't thinkthat's going to be the right
fit.
If it's not good for your son,then it's not good for them.
If you would say, god, this isnot a great situation for my son
or daughter, then it's probablynot a great decision for them
(23:24):
and you really like that person.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
Yeah, yeah, all kinds of.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
It happens often where people call us my friends,
former players, our teammates,people that we grow up with.
It's happened multiple times inmy life and they'd love an
opportunity to come play here orsomewhere else and it's just
not the right fit for us andit's a tough thing.
But, like I said, at the end ofthe day I got to live with me
(23:51):
and I know I wouldn't live verywell if I lied to them and told
them what they wanted to hear.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
I'm not in the business of that I know you're
not.
I've known you a long time.
You're not in the business ofthat, you're going to tell a
person what they need to know toget to the next.
If they can't take the paththat they think that they can
take, you're going to help themwith another path.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Yeah, yeah, and I may not do the hard lifting for
them, but certainly I can be apart of pushing them in that
direction.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
So what advice would you give to aspiring leaders who
seek to motivate and inspirethose that lead?
Speaker 2 (24:29):
Well, a couple of quick career things that I think
are important.
Number one do what you love anddo what you're good at.
Those two things matter.
And then finally, do whateveryou can in the process to
develop the skillset you need.
And the old thing back when wewere in school, it was Stephen
(24:50):
Covey and the habits of highlysuccessful people, but whatever,
it's changed a little bit, butit's all been regurgitated as
well.
But the bottom line is, your jobis to do something you love, do
something you're good at, andthen develop the skills you need
to do better at it.
So never feel like work Rightand then you're not going to
work a day in your life.
(25:11):
So for me, you've got to findthose things.
And I think the other thingthat young men and women that
want to be leaders have tounderstand that you've got to do
some things you don't want todo until you get a chance to do
what you love, to do Right.
Right, it's not as simple as oh, I want to be a coach now, and
so that's all I want to do.
You might have to do somethingelse to make ends meet, and if
(25:33):
you're going to do somethingelse, then do it well.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
I folks that know me know that I like to say this
when things are getting hard orthe path that you're trying to
take is not a direct path, I'vealways told people sometimes you
just got to get uncomfortable,to get comfortable.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
Yeah, yeah, like that .
Speaker 1 (25:52):
Yeah, for sure, you have to get uncomfortable to get
comfortable.
And there's nothing wrong withbeing uncomfortable with Bill's
character.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Yeah, yeah, you bet, you bet, you get better, you get
used to it.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
John, I personally think that you're the hardest
working coach in the industry.
Doing my research on you,knowing what you've done over
the years, asking people about,it's like damn John, really
doing this thing out here.
Huh yeah, I always thought thatyou were going to try to go to
the.
You know, try to coach at theprofessional level, but you
really enjoy grooming at thislevel?
Speaker 2 (26:24):
huh, I do, I do.
And once again, you know it's awhole other level when you look
at what they're doing at thepro level.
Man, I have so much regard forpro coaches because they're
working with elite players andthey're coaching at elite level,
putting money in the game, alot of money in what we do.
(26:46):
I struggle with.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Right.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
I'm where I'm supposed to be, you know, I'm
where I'm supposed to be.
I like the fact that most ofour athletes, they're going to
be paying for their educationRight, or at least a good
portion of it, right?
No one we have has signed a$700 million contract.
So not only are we getting themto the next stage of their life
, but then we're seeing them bevery, very successful in that
(27:10):
stage, and that makes me proud,you know, and ultimately, I feel
our role in any organization,and certainly in what we're
doing here, is I want them toknow that 20 years, 25 years
away from now, they got a placeto call home.
Right, we're going to still behere.
I mean, our relationshipwouldn't be what it is if it was
(27:33):
not for the time we spenttogether on the football field
right, so not just on thefootball field, off the football
field.
Correct yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
Checking on each other, making sure each other's
right.
You know we have some breaks intime.
But of course we always wasable to catch back up, like
right where we left off at.
You know, and that's somethingto be said, you know, I
appreciate you being a friendman.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Well, I appreciate you being a friend man.
You know that.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
Yeah, no we're done with that.
All right, I'm not talking toCoach Von Lidgett right now.
All right, I'm talking to JVJohn.
How do you balance all this andcontinue to love the game while
enjoying your Fruity labor?
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Yeah, I think that balance is a tough thing to do.
I think you catch it later inlife because you think you're
going to live forever.
Certainly, we get plenty ofreminders in our life.
We spoke on this last couplemonths.
So-and-so calls you and theygot cancer.
This person calls you andthey're struggling with this.
They have a young daughterthat's not doing well.
So you know and I'm not areligious person but someone's
(28:42):
showing us a lot of signs why weshouldn't take life for granted
.
They do that on a daily basis.
Those reminders we get areimpactful and you want to always
keep that in mind as you make adecision.
Now, in my case, I'm sofortunate.
I got a great wife.
I got a great family that loveswhat we do here.
My son was our Batboy from zeroto age until he got to high
(29:08):
school.
Then he couldn't do thatanymore because he had his own
sport.
Yeah, there's nothing going on.
So for me, it's a part of who weare and that makes things
easier to maintain that balance.
I'm going to be going down toDallas, as you know, for that
Hall of Fame induction, andwhether I was going for that or
not, a good portion of my familyprobably would be going with me
(29:29):
, right, because it's somethingwe do for our program together.
So spring training, same thing.
When I go to spring training,there's a good chance that part
or all of my family will be withus.
So I think, anytime yourposition allows you to include
your family in your endeavorsno-transcript.
(29:49):
It makes that balance a littleeasier.
Now, being an MP or US Marshall, I don't know when to take your
daughter to work to his, but itbecomes a little bit more
difficult for you.
But for me, man, we're playinggames and it's fun to have the
family around.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
No, I didn't have that luxury to take them to work
with me, but I did do a few ofthose bring your dick to school
for Career Day.
The one thing that I'll alwaysremember is my daughter,
samantha, who introduced mewhile I was working at the field
.
She said like to introduce youmy dick.
(30:32):
He's a crime fighter.
I was like, oh, oh yeah, crimefighter.
I felt like putting my cape on.
Then I got to work and got thereality of it.
So tell us some things.
We got a few more minutes.
I know a few things about us,but outside of coaching, what do
(30:57):
you like to do?
Speaker 2 (30:59):
I love traveling, I love traveling, I love, I love.
I mean, europe is my placewhere I feel most comfortable.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
I know that you're yeah all over.
Seoul, yugoslavia, but thatcountry is not there anymore,
correct?
Speaker 2 (31:13):
I feel most comfortable in Yugoslavia, which
is no longer there, but I havegreat friends in Serbia, croatia
and Slovenia.
My family, as you know, is fromformer Yugoslavia.
My father was born from aSerbian father and a Slovenian
mother and my mom was 100%Croatian.
So growing up we had people andfriends from all of the former
(31:41):
states in Yugoslavia and ofcourse, later they broke up.
All the states broke up andthere was some ethnic strife and
things of that nature, and onceagain it was both that and
living in Racine gave me a wholedifferent perspective, because
I don't remember not liking toomany people.
Whether they were black or white, or from Serbia or Croatia or
(32:03):
Slovenia, or from Mexico.
I don't ever remember myparents saying to me wow, we're
not going to hang out with thembecause they're Serbian.
Never once did that happen inmy life.
It was cool, and so I feel athome in all those areas and I
have great friends there that Ireally enjoy, and so I guess my
(32:25):
hobby is traveling.
I like traveling the world andreally what I love, and that's
not only in Europe, but when I'mdown in Texas, texas is
different, yeah, texas, floridais different.
Florida is different.
So I really enjoy thedifferences more than I loathe
them.
I mean I really enjoy seeingthe things that are different.
I mean figuring out that inFlorida it's a public's right
(32:46):
Instead of Sendix I got to go topublic's Sendix.
Sendix is in my area now.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
Pick a save and Sendix.
Well, we got Pigley, Wiggly andI save a lot.
That's the only thing Irecognize from home down there
in Florida.
But Pollux is my spouse, Polluxis where my daughter works.
Yeah, so you said that's soawesome and you can't say
anything bad about Pollux.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Tell her.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
I'm coming over to get a discount.
She won't give me a discount.
You think she's going to giveyou one.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
But no man.
If I have a hobby, I guess it'straveling.
I enjoy meeting people from allover and you realize that
there's so many great people inthis world, right, and we
usually we emphasize and displaydifferences more than we do
commonalities, right, and Ithink that causes a lot of
(33:32):
problems both politically andotherwise.
Man, there's good peopleeverywhere.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Oh yeah, oh yeah.
We just need to stop playinggames with people's lives.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
Yeah, that's for another day.
Yeah, yeah, we'll talk aboutthat later.
That's for another day.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
So there's something that you brought up that I
forgot.
What's this thing that?
Okay, I remember all burningback show.
What was it, Mr 3000?
Speaker 2 (33:58):
Mr 3000 was the movie .
Speaker 1 (33:59):
So, oh, john, here has a union car right.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
Yeah, well, I had it for one year.
One year, I didn't renew it.
You didn't renew it, no.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
Would you go back to Phil?
Is that something that you'rethinking about doing when you
retire?
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Well, yeah, I would love to do it, but the reality
of it is I'm not very good at it.
It was a moment in my life andit was a cool thing and of
course it was how it all startedwas I came home and they were
doing these.
A lot of, a lot of the newsagencies were were trying to
promote an interview.
To come down to Miller Parkdown in Milwaukee and come try
(34:34):
out.
If you think you're a baseballguy, come on, try out.
And I had no desire to do this.
There was a line of 2000 people.
I said I'm not going andsitting in this line.
And I got home and my wife hadconvinced my daughter that this
is this is right on my alley,right?
I mean, I'm a baseball guy, soI should go to this thing.
And so I did it for my daughter.
I said, all right, I'm going togo down there, I'm going to
(34:54):
stand in this line, and it wasthe funniest thing ever, because
you're standing in line and thedude next to you has shorts and
a tank top on says MagicJohnson.
Right, he had never.
I know he never played baseball, but but he's in his gear, he's
in a.
You saw as the people yeah, theother, the other guy, you know
he played maybe one yearbaseball ever, and so,
(35:15):
fortunately for me, after Iwaited in that long line, I got
to the front and and the coachat UWM right was was a
consultant on that project,right.
And once again, what were theylooking for?
Baseball, people, baseball,right, it's a baseball film, and
when he saw me he's like, ohyeah, he's in.
So then, after that happened, Ihad to go through the the
(35:36):
process of getting a speakingpart right, which, of course, I
did so well at it that they cutit okay.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
So so let's just be straight.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
I did it so well you know for that one day I said I
was a union actor for one day,for one day one day they set up
the scene, I did my line and andthen they cut it all right, but
but you, you were actually onfilm catching it oh, quite a bit
.
Yeah, yeah, but that was aseparate piece that was cut.
Yeah, I was on the set probablyevery day.
Bernie Mack was an awesome,awesome individual to everybody.
(36:11):
Man, yeah, yeah, um only lovefor him.
He, he, uh, he would come onset and he would give me a hug
every day now that that wasloosely based off of all, what?
Speaker 1 (36:22):
what real life ball player?
Yeah, it was like he had 2,999hits and he was called Mr 3000
because he was struggling to getthat last hit.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
Yeah so what happened is a that he already was
inducted into Hall of Fame.
He was going into Hall of Fame.
They found out that theymiscalculated how many hits.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
He didn't have 3000 he had to go back.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
Now he's already old and he has to come back and try
to get three more hits that's agood storyline, man, good
storyline yeah, good story.
A lot of great actors in thatthat movie, and it was fun to
watch how they put somethinglike that together.
Uh, there's a home run in in inthat, in that, where Bernie
Mack has to hit a home run offus and uh, and they wanted a
real guy pitching.
(37:02):
So Doug Henry, who played forthe Brewers right, was the
pitcher.
I was a catcher and you know,and of course Bernie wasn't a
baseball player, but he had beenworking on it to try to make it
look right look real look real.
And so there's a scene in themovie where he hits a home run
and in the reality of it is he.
He barely hit it over thesecond base.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
Okay but in the movie it looked like he hit a bomb
yeah, so so it was great to seehow all that gets put together.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
Um, the director on the film also very good to
everybody was the guy who didwhiplash, okay, um, he also did
a drum line, drum line drum lineokay drum line.
Yeah, um, and he, he directedeveryone very, very well.
He was a very good person andand, um, yeah, you know it was
okay, it was good.
I think my last residual checkwas like 68 cents, so I knew not
(37:48):
much was coming after that.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
So hey, well, look, man, a lot of us would like to
be in film, but you actually did.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
Yeah, it was good yeah a lot, a lot, a lot of go
out there go out on on netflixand rent it, so I can.
There you go, he's all right,folks.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
You heard that you want to go out, check out all mr
3000 so they could get.
Uh, get another check.
That's right, that's right, allright.
Well, I'm gonna wrap up.
Is there anything you want toask me?
Is there anything that you wantto?
You know, say I want tocongratulate you again for
getting into a national hall offame.
Thank you.
Thank you, dallas.
If anybody's in Dallas areathat may view where I'm
(38:25):
listening to show, if you, ifyou see John or you want to send
them a card or something, thefolks that we um grew up with um
, right here, white water, um atuwwedu or uwwsportscom.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
There you go.
All right now you'll find mepretty quick there.
No man, it's a pleasure to seeyou, charlie man, you're doing
so well and uh, you know, I wassurprised to hear you don't know
the show Reacher.
There you go.
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
I'll watch cop shows with you.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
He's your original Reacher.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
He's your original Reacher man yeah, just I'm just
a regular all civil servant.
For what was a regular civilservant for the, for the country
and I enjoyed my.
I enjoyed my work and I'm gladthat I'm up right and standing
and made it to where where I'mat now yeah, getting ready to
venture off into something new,yeah and if you have time, I
(39:19):
love you and meet the team ohdefinitely won't benefit by
meeting you man.
All right, let's do that, allright hey folks, thank you again
, um, like thank john, one moretime for coming on my show, and
I hope that we'd be able to dothis again, maybe after um,
after the season, because you'regonna win another championship
this year.
Right, that's the plan.
There you go, bro, let's go doit all.
Right, man, take care.
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