June 6, 2024 • 59 mins
What does it mean to truly strive for excellence? Join us as we welcome Charlie Shaw, the inspiring host of the new podcast "Arete." Charlie's journey from "Little Mel Unfiltered" to "Arete" reflects his deep commitment to personal growth and leadership. After an invigorating early morning workout, we dive into the philosophy behind "Arete" and how it embodies the Greek concept of excelling in every aspect of life. We share how maintaining high standards in both personal and professional spheres can propel one towards true fulfillment and impact.
Our discussion also sheds light on the critical need for ethical living and balance in a demanding world. Charlie and I reflect on our personal experiences with fitness transformation and the power of a strong support system. We underscore the importance of consistency and adaptability in the ongoing journey of self-improvement. This chapter is a heartfelt exploration of how past experiences shape current efforts and the constant pursuit of betterment.
Finally, our conversation navigates the intricacies of community policing and effective leadership in law enforcement. We explore the transformative power of genuine community engagement and the necessity for respectful communication. Charlie shares his insights on the importance of effective leadership and adapting to the evolving nature of law enforcement. We wrap up with a discussion on the challenges of retirement preparation, emphasizing the need for better support systems to help individuals transition from structured careers to civilian life. Tune in for a compelling episode filled with valuable lessons on leadership, personal growth, and community engagement.
Our discussion also sheds light on the critical need for ethical living and balance in a demanding world. Charlie and I reflect on our personal experiences with fitness transformation and the power of a strong support system. We underscore the importance of consistency and adaptability in the ongoing journey of self-improvement. This chapter is a heartfelt exploration of how past experiences shape current efforts and the constant pursuit of betterment.
Finally, our conversation navigates the intricacies of community policing and effective leadership in law enforcement. We explore the transformative power of genuine community engagement and the necessity for respectful communication. Charlie shares his insights on the importance of effective leadership and adapting to the evolving nature of law enforcement. We wrap up with a discussion on the challenges of retirement preparation, emphasizing the need for better support systems to help individuals transition from structured careers to civilian life. Tune in for a compelling episode filled with valuable lessons on leadership, personal growth, and community engagement.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to today's show, and right in the studio
today I have Mr Charlie Shawspecial guest.
Thank you, man, for coming in.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
No, thank you bro, after that workout that we did
this morning, I didn't think Iwas going to make it, but we got
through it.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
You saw me hobbling in here late.
No, I'm proud of you, man.
I saw you busting your buttthis morning.
You as well, but you as well.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
It's always a pleasure working out with you
guys.
At 8 o'clock I'm usually on 9.
But you know we had to get somethings done today, so we got in
there early.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Yeah, A lot of people weren't doing what we were
doing this morning, that's forsure.
Not at 8 o'clock and that'sanother show.
But Charlie's in here today andhe's telling me about his.
He's got a new podcast comingout and he can tell us about it
right now.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Appreciate you, man.
Well, as you know, I had aprevious podcast Well, it was
actually it was season one.
That podcast was called LittleMel Unfiltered.
I started that back in January,you know, right after I got
myself situated after retiringin September of 24.
Basically, it was aboutmotivating and inspiring others
(01:11):
to do great things.
I was interviewing folks thatyou know out in the community
and their employment.
However, they can motivateother people, I wanted to talk
to them to see if we can getthem to you know on the show and
and do more of that.
On a broader sense.
Well, the same show them thatjust renamed is basically the
(01:32):
same concept and that show isgoing to be called period and
you'll be able to find that showjust like you found my last
show.
and I'm really excited about it,so you want to.
You were asking me what is itread?
Speaker 1 (01:48):
well, yeah, and I, because I asked you about it a
little bit before the showstarted and uh, pure read for
the listeners.
That's a-r-e-t-e.
Right, it is a uh, is it asystem?
Speaker 2 (01:59):
yeah, it's um.
A reed is a ancient greek.
A REIT is an ancient Greek termthat signifies excellence and
(02:20):
any time that you know, both ofus was in leadership roles when
we were working in ourrespective law enforcement
agencies, me being in USMarshals and Orange County.
Such as yourself, we want tomotivate our people.
We want to show good leadership.
So I was reading something thatI'm doing now while I'm retired
, and I came across that wordREAD, and it explains best of
what I'm trying to seek formyself and also bring out in
(02:40):
others.
It represents the ideal ofreaching one's highest potential
and striving for perfection inall endeavors of life and
profession.
Enhancing a restate of mindmeans committing to personal and
professional excellence,continuously seeking to improve
oneself or help improve othersthrough living a life that
(03:03):
reflects the highest standardsand integrity, skills and
dedication to yourself andothers, so it really encompasses
all aspects of leadership inbusinesses, and no matter what
they are.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
It seems like the concept is going to be the same
as far as being good leaders,right, well, actually just a
good person overall.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Bingo, just a good person overall.
You know, I think we've lost.
I'm not going to say all of us,but I think that a lot of
people have lost that wherethey're just accepting what it
is right now, when they have thecapacity to be better each day,
(03:47):
like we strive to.
We strive to improve ourselveseach and every day.
So I just want to, you know,bring it back and remind folks
hey, man, you got greatness inyou man.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
People do need to be reminded that.
So is that.
Is that?
How do you think that'simportant in today's society?
Speaker 2 (04:06):
that is that, uh, how do you think that's uh
important in today's society?
Well, when you, when you lookat the grand scheme of things,
when you're talking about itbeing in society, one can, one
can say, okay, so let's say insociety, let's say something as
easy as just going out to eat,right, the person that's you
(04:32):
know that's waiting on you, forexample, listen, they know that
you're paying top dollar forthat hamburger.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
You're sitting down $18 hamburger Right.
They know that you're payingtop dollar for it.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
They didn't have to.
You, you know, come to yourrestaurant, so why not?
You know, show them that youappreciate them.
You know, make sure thateverything that they're ordering
I'm not saying kiss their buttor anything, but just show them
the respect, the respect of, youknow, hey, thank you for coming
into my shop.
Or when we're talking along thelines of our profession, law
(05:08):
enforcement, everybody knowsthat we have to.
You know, everybody knows thatwhat our jobs are, well, the
majority of people know what ourjobs are.
And with that respect, weprovide a service to the
community.
We should be excellent acrossthe board, even when we're
putting handcuffs on the personright, we should show that
(05:29):
person respect and because youknow there's, there's no reason
for air when you, when you, whenyou're looking for looking at
that in the grand scheme ofthings, if you're professional
across the board, right what canyou argue?
Speaker 1 (05:42):
yeah, and it should be nothing personal, ever
Nothing personal.
Yeah, and it's like when Ithink we actually I was talking
about a video earlier where itlooked like something, an
incident, got personal.
It's like you know Right, butyeah, so as far as the REIT
system is that, how do youincorporate that into your daily
(06:05):
life?
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Well, good thing, growth, orientation into your
environment, encouraging othersto strive towards greatness,
like, for example, we work out,we do the CrossFit we're pushing
each other each and every day,each and every day, or even
(06:43):
through exercises.
You know, hey, charlie, let'sget up the wall.
Hey, kev, we got to carry thisthing another 400 meters, or not
?
Yep.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Six months ago that wasn't happening like that.
But yeah, it's that concept andthe encouragement and the
teaching.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Right, you know it's cultivating, just as a person
waters a garden, right?
It's a good analogy.
Yeah, you know the reason whyyou're watering a garden.
You're planting a seed in agarden, right?
Okay, so you're expecting to,you know, harvest something, you
know, within a few weeks ormonths.
(07:22):
Well, that needs sunshine, itneeds water, it needs
nourishments.
You have to apply these thingsand sometimes we forget those
ingredients you know, orsometimes a person don't know
the proper ingredients.
(07:42):
You're going to have to taketime out.
You may have to take time outas a leader or as a friend.
That's not just on a leadershipside of it, that's business,
but on a personal level.
Sometimes you may have toremind a person.
A lot of times we don't want toremind our friends that, hey,
(08:06):
man, you can do great things,you can do whatever you want to
do.
You're just going to have toput the work in and apply it.
Well, I don't know how.
Well, you know what.
Maybe I know how, maybe I canshare with you, or maybe we can
find out together.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
And do you think you have to tweak things based on
generational differences?
Oh, of course, Because I'm gladyou brought that up.
Generational differences oh ofcourse.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Because I'm glad you brought that up we're, we're,
I'm not.
I'm not going to use thattwilight thing, but we finished
our career Correct, correct,right.
And what we're doing right nowis we're podcasting.
We don't have to do this, no.
But the reason why we're doingthis is because maybe we still
(08:45):
got some things that we want toinform people of.
Well, the reason why I createdPeery Read and I'm also doing
speaking engagements and I alsodo training is because I still
have that knowledge that someoneshared with me many moons ago,
right, and I find it necessarythat I return that Each one to
(09:07):
each one.
So, with the next generation offolks that's coming up, my
specialty is law enforcement.
If I can help groom or providesome of my knowledge and keep
learning, then maybe the peoplecoming up behind me may ask me
(09:30):
some questions or how would theygo about?
When you were a supervisor,what did you do in this
situation?
Or how would you handle thisperson?
Or how would you handle thisscenario?
So I feel it necessary for myown personal growth and also for
the growth of others is to tryto develop a podcast, train
(09:54):
materials, maybe even books atone time, maybe even little
manuals or books on trying tohelp the ones that's coming up
behind me.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Okay, now I'm going to tell you I went on an old man
rant just a few days agotalking about what you're
hitting on and as far as sharingyour knowledge, Right Back in
the day I don't know, maybe likeeight nine-year deputy or
officer, there was a, you know,you run into older guys and
everybody wanted to like write abook.
(10:24):
I think a couple of them did.
I think I've read a couple ofthem.
One of them was called like10-8.
I remember it's like that wasjust the thing, and then we
progressed, like doing thatprocess.
I never thought that hey, wewould be retired, like you
didn't even think about retiring.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Didn't even think about it.
It was so far out.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
But now look yeah but now look, the book turns into a
podcast, which is a lot easierthan writing a book.
Right, and what?
I find that, as far as teachingthings like you, have so much
to teach you as well.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
You're talking about in general.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Yeah, just in general .
Like, sometimes you see thingslike, oh man, why did they do
that?
Because nine times out of tenyou've been through it, or at
least you've seen it, and Idon't think that knowledge
should be wasted.
Because there was a day where,on a date, the book of what to
do used to be this big, Right,and then it got like super big
and then it turned into a discthat nobody ever looked at,
(11:20):
right, right.
So the people just got dumber.
I'm just going to say it, sorry.
People got dumber because itwas easier to ask than to go to
the computer.
It's not the kind of job whereyou go hey, let me go look.
Nobody's going to type that up,they're not going to do it.
It's like you either know it oryou don't.
Right, right, right.
But when they start doing thatand they start making the
information less accessible, itseems like it's more accessible,
(11:43):
but it's not.
So you have people going.
Uh, when you see some of themistakes and just stupid things
that people do and somemalicious things people do, it
sounds crazy, but it's like Ithink the newer generation
especially.
They need to be told like don't, don't double dip in your off
(12:05):
duty, kind of thing, or theyhave to be told what not to do
specifically because they don'tunderstand the whole totality of
it well, kev.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
You know as well as I do my policy is written by
written because of somebody'sname some things that people
have done or made those mistakes.
So we're not going to beat upthose who fail, because the way
(12:36):
I've been looking at things thelast few years and I've read a
few things failure is fine.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Yes, if you learn from it especially.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
And when you learn from something, you actually
fail forward.
You didn't fail backwards, youfailed forward.
If you're failing forward, youhave the capacity to learn from
your mistakes Absolutely, andthat's what peer reading is all
about.
You know, hey, you can learn somuch if you, you know, open
(13:12):
your eyes and listen.
You had two ears.
Listen with both of them.
You had two eyes.
Listen with both of them.
Speak, yeah, one mouth.
Be careful what comes out ofyour mouth.
Be careful how you use thewords that come out of your
mouth, absolutely.
And if you're how you use thewords that come out of your
mouth, absolutely, and if you'regoing to use those words, make
sure that those words are wordsthat's going to better yourself
and better others.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Yeah, and you test on on your, your podcast.
Like I said, just treatingpeople, respect what you just
covered.
Just a general employees needto feel like their input is
valued.
I mean you know it's like Imean I'll say tell me more about
(13:54):
the challenges of incorporatingyour program into daily lives
of individuals.
And like I was kind of givingmy little example, like it's
instilling that and there's likestate of mind like this is how
do you make people like aware ofjust of their surroundings and
(14:18):
doing the right thing and how itlooks two hours from now?
And you know it's kind of likeI know we're covering a broad
topic there, but there's verylittle.
I don't hear about too manytrue management.
It's kind of like I like whatyou're doing, because the true
management podcast of just downand down to earth, just what it
(14:42):
is right, right.
So how do you instill that towhat I would like to call like?
Some people are like just Iwon't call them dumbasses, but
they're unaware.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
They're unaware and they make life hard on
themselves I'd rather use wordsunaware than dumbasses, because
everybody has potential to um tomake themselves aware of uh, a
growth, but yeah, sometimes theydo represent dumbasses.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
Yeah, we've all been dumbasses here and there.
I've kicked myself many times.
I was a dumbass and you knowyou can recover, but you learn.
It's okay to be a dumbass ifyou learn.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Well, first off, I'd like to say that with me, after
retiring, I went ontransformation and that was for
my personal success.
I did well in my employment, Iwas happy with it, but I was
also seeking to improve myhealth, improve my mindset on
(15:44):
things outside of my previousemployment, because we get
cloudy we get really cloudy whenall we're doing is focusing on
work, and I found myself justfocusing on that and I wasn't
taking care of myself.
You know, I posted somepictures of my transformation
transformation and weight lossand I'm still working on that.
(16:07):
I'm still a work in progressand I'm happy with that because
I'm seeing the fruits of labor.
So, with that being said, youknow you got to set personal
goals and align it with your ownvalues when you're pursuing
self-improvement.
You got to live ethically.
(16:27):
Yes, you have to live ethically.
There's one thing that youshould never lose is those
ethics that you have, that'sbeen instilled in you, and
dedicate yourself to what you'retrying to achieve in your
journey or transformation, andstrive for excellence in all the
(16:51):
areas that lead to fulfillmentand balance.
Balance is very important.
Balance in your life is veryimportant, and that's something
that I noticed that I wasn'tdoing last year I wasn't
balancing.
Yes, I agree, I wasn't doing.
Last year I wasn't balancing.
Yes, I agree, I wasn't doing iteither, because you just get so
caught up, you get caught up,you know, and I shared all this
(17:12):
with you and didn't really knowyou, but we connected.
Once we found out that we had abackground, I was like, hey,
man, you're a year out from youknow, what did you do?
And I was, you know, I prettydid.
You pretty much did the samething, that that I was seeking
you.
You realize that there was somethings that you need to improve
and you got in the gym and youset yourself a podcast.
(17:36):
You know then, no, I didn'tknow.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
No, I didn't know you can reset the clock.
Yeah, you can reset.
You know to your abilities andyou're not.
You may not be able to run a 40.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
We're not trying, yeah exactly.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
But just the concept of being able to run again Right
and everything that the coachesinstill in you is a major
leadership role.
It kind of encompasses a lot ofwhat your podcast is about,
Because you know it's hard toteach an old dog new tricks and
they pull it off.
Role it kind of encompasses alot of what your podcast is
about, because it's hard toteach an old dog new tricks and
they pull it off.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Yeah, but you know what, If you leave me with some
water, man, I'm drinking it.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Yeah, there's a couple people.
I've been out of state ahandful of times and ever since
that little transformation pagethat you were talking about,
I've showed people hey, look atthis guy.
I remember when you got therearound Christmas and you were
talking about him four or fivemonths he looked like a
different person.
One girl told me that thesecond picture looked like you
(18:36):
know, the first picture.
You looked like the other guy'sfather.
I was like, well, I guessthat's a huge compliment, but
you could tell, like the secondpicture, the transformation I'm
sorry to belly laugh, no, butit's true.
Like the second picture, you'relike, you're super happy,
you're smiling.
The first picture was just likeLike the old man.
(18:57):
But yeah, it's like you thoughtyou were happy, but it was clear
that when you look at, likeyour facial expression, your
body and what you were doing,the second guy it's a different
guy, it's not the same guy.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Well, whoever told?
Speaker 1 (19:08):
you that I appreciate it.
Actually, it was the person yousaw me talk to yesterday.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Oh, okay, oh, the new one, yeah, the brand new one
yeah, Really yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
I was just telling her about the people
transforming in gym.
That was like most recent.
But yeah, other than that I'vebeen up north saying the same
things.
Right, right it's funny.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
You said that because I think Devin put me on there
in the show.
Hey, look at this guy man.
Anybody can do it.
It's crazy because people knowthat was good marketing for them
that wasn't like a yeartransformation, that was only a
few months, like that was comingin killing it.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
It was six months yeah, I remember the first time,
uh, when you came in like youknow, we had a see a handful of
people like who's willing tocommit to it, which is a lot of
uh, uh.
You know, like there's somepeople that come in it's like
okay, we going to see this guyor this girl again, and it might
come on two or three times andthen they're gone.
And I'm like I didn't even knowhim.
(20:11):
I'm like, ah, he's back, he'shere.
He's like there's thatconsistency.
He's like, well, this issomebody who's taking it
seriously, because a lot ofpeople, just like they think
they're, they're going to comein with that.
I want to date myself with the80s and 90s mentality of oh, I'm
going to still, and it's likedude, you're not that person,
Whatever you think you areyou're not that person, you're
not that dude anymore.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Yeah, you know, I get kind of sad when I see somebody
start because you know, sinceI've been there, right, there's
been some people that startedand they haven't come back, and
I get kind of sad about that manbecause the journey we're all
in the same journey, yeah, andthey won't stay around for that
(20:51):
support system.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
Man, we're here.
Yeah, trust me, I couldn't dothe stuff we did today a year
ago that wouldn't happen.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Oh, that would cancel a lot of people's membership.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
But it's like you get you try not to let them get
their asses handed to them onthe first day Right, and it's
like it gets back to once again.
It gets back to the leadershipthing, Like you want people.
It's like that realization thatI'm not in the shape that I
thought I was in and I'm not inhigh school anymore.
I'm not in my twenties and, tobe honest, to do three deep knee
(21:24):
bends might lay me up for alittle while.
It's hard to come to terms withthat, but you gotta go back.
You gotta come back and it,don't.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
It don't bite that hard.
You know it bites a little bit.
We got, we gotta admit it.
It do um, it do bite.
It bites a little bit but it'snot anything that you can't get
through.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Well, in your system, in this podcast, as far as
getting that motivation to comeback Right and you can apply it
to management also, as far asyour employees, just to have
them want to come in and performa task for you have them want
(22:07):
to come in and perform a taskright.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
You well, you know myself, I I managed a great
bunch of guys and there was alot of days where I had been
courage, even when I wasn'tdidn't want to be encouraged, or
even when I was down, I had toencourage them.
Hey look, man, we got to stayin this.
You know, we got to keeplooking for the bad guys.
We got gotta stay on top ofthese protection details.
We gotta stay on top of theseextraditions.
So my thing was listen, we'rein the moment, right now, but
(22:34):
this isn't forever.
Yeah, and a lot of you know,you have to build that culture
with folks to let them know thatyou are their support system,
that you are here for them.
You understand, you understandwhat they're going through
because every day is not bed ofroses.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
Yeah, and I hate to stereotype management, but we
were talking earlier there's adifference between, like,
entry-level management, middlemanagement and upper management.
They're so different and Ithink as far as you further up
the ladder, the more detachedyou normally become.
We had a few cool supervisorsthat were up there, but they
still were relatable.
They didn't forget where theycame from, I think.
(23:10):
I think that's the part that Iwould say rubbed me the wrong
way.
As far as being in management,like some of the people, like I
remember you when you started.
So this guy or girl made thesame mistake that you did in a
different era and you beat himup.
Yeah, and you beat him up andact like you don't understand.
I don't.
I don't subscribe to that pointof view because I still
(23:31):
remember like you can act likeyou can.
You forgot it because you tooksome tests and everything.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
But you're not infallible.
No, you're not.
You have your fouls, yeah,fouls, yeah.
And I was lucky enough.
I was lucky enough throughoutmy entire career.
Even with the military that Ihad, I had good managers that
weren't totally like that.
(23:56):
You know, if they made amistake, hey look, I made a
mistake on it, I made a bad callon that one, I'll get it better
.
So you know, that's my attitude.
But I have had some that theyain't admitted to nothing.
No, but guess what?
I ain't staying in thoseoperations very long because I
(24:16):
knew that that wasn't for me,right you may.
I'm that.
That wasn't for me, right youmay?
I'm not going to say which job.
It was one of those divisionswhere everybody wanted to get
into.
I got there and realized, man,you know what?
The grass really isn't thatgreen over here on this side.
(24:37):
It was because of the cultureRight, really isn't that great
or that green on this over hereon this side.
It was because of the culture,right, the culture is what made
me like I bust my butt to gethere and people don't even.
They don't even care about theprogram.
They're just here taking up aspace.
I don't think any.
Anyone should just be in aposition, just take up the space
or not leave when their time isup and continue to occupy that
(25:00):
space.
You have that also.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
You have that also and I question how effective of
a manager do you think you areif you're just not leaving a
spot and you should?
Like everybody, it's theconsensus that you've done your
time Like.
I'm talking to people that thatare losing money working like
oh yeah like you know if youretired you would make more
(25:22):
money than than if you stillstayed employed.
It's like how effective do youthink you are?
Or did you just not plan yourlife correctly?
Or just the ability of nothaving to be somebody anymore?
Speaker 2 (25:35):
well, until a person tell me why they're staying
around.
I don't want to assume, but youknow what?
We're pretty sharp.
We're called investigators.
We know that a lot of peoplejust stick around because they
don't want, you know, don't haveanything else planned.
Yeah, that's all they do.
You know what.
That's too bad for them,because there's a lot of life
(25:59):
out here, there's a lot ofliving out here and everything
shouldn't be so focused on youremployment.
But while you're in there, bethe best and do the best, and do
the best by your people.
Don't just sit on a positionjust because you can what I
noticed, and it's not just whereI work at it.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Literally I've talked to different entities and
different counties becauseeverybody thinks in just the law
enforcement community I'm justgoing to say there's an
understanding but people don'trealize that as far as being in
management, it's pretty muchpretty consistent.
But actually what you do fromcounty to county or city to city
(26:43):
, no one operates the same.
They have different.
Where we are at right nowthere's different codes that you
know like there's no generalconsensus overall about like
call signs and 10 codes andcertain procedures and you know
ordinances and stuff was likeoperate in their own zone.
(27:04):
Yeah, everybody, everybody'sdifferent.
That whole innovative thingwhere we're like I remember back
in the day we were looking likewe were sitting there watching
some screwed up uh taserincident, like it sparked a lot
of conversation.
But as far as being a bunch ofmanagers sitting around talking
and we're like well, how comeI'll give you a law enforcement
(27:26):
examples Like it was a taserincident, that, how come?
when it was like at a Wendy's orsomething, I think it happened
in Georgia, Right, and it waslike this guy got in a scuffle
when the officer picked pickedup the taser that apparently was
on him and started runningRight and turned around and shot
some darts Don't know if itdon't think it hit him, the guy
(27:46):
or the officer.
The guy, the guy running, hekind of did this and the officer
shot him and I think he killedhim.
So the argument it wasn't anargument, it was actually a
discussion.
It's like, well, why is a tasernon-lethal when you use it, but
it's lethal when somebody elseuses it?
Interesting yeah interesting.
(28:11):
It's like you were and it's likeand everybody's policy is
different, and but it sparksconversation because law
enforcement is pretty muchgauged by even the management
styles based on the community.
Yeah, problems here, problemsthere, like they're certain
you're not going to police thesame in wavelength mississippi
as you are, freaking.
(28:31):
Uh, yeah, it's like it's notthe same beast but it's the same
job, but it's just.
It's like it's not the samebeast but it's the same job, but
it's just.
Once again, things that happenstate to state, county to county
, even city to city, they'redifferent, like the use of force
.
That's part of the way yougovern also.
Yeah, so how do you manage that?
Because it's always different?
Speaker 2 (28:54):
Well, it sounds more of a policy and procedure
question that you're directingtoward me, but it also sounds
like a cultural police and theculture of that particular area.
I've always had the luxury ofworking for larger departments,
(29:22):
Not saying anything not puttingit in a negative sense of how
small-town USA managed theirpolice force, because they're
going to have a lot of reasonswhy use of force is more
prevalent than in larger placesand larger places probably had
(29:44):
the reverse response to that.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Yeah, call it anti-Griffith police work.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
But it all goes back to culture also.
When you mention, how can youapply a read in your personal
life, how can you apply a readin your personal life?
Those everything focuses backon how you treat people.
When I say when you apply whenwe were talking about personal,
(30:09):
now we're talking about businessor policing it all focuses back
on how you treat people andwhat I found also is how are you
communicating with folks?
bingo, that's huge how are youcommunicating with people in
your, in your, in your town?
Are you only communicating withpeople that, like you or you
(30:32):
know in interest, culture, race,ethnicity?
Do you have that makeup for allthose, um, you know?
Do you have that makeup on yourforce?
Uh?
Are you engaging with your uh,religious leaders, your business
owners?
Are you going out to theschools making sure that you
(30:55):
know the younger, youngergeneration see you not just as a
protector or a threat, butsomeone that they can actually
come up to you and say hey, youknow what I looked at when I was
growing up?
I didn't look at police asthreats.
I looked at I told you before Isaw deputy friendly, I know that
(31:16):
.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
We used to run out to the road.
You can see cars coming fromwhere I used to live, we used to
run out to the road so we couldjust wave to a cop car.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
I mean.
A lot of it has to do withculture.
Are police officers getting out?
Are they getting out of theirsquad cars?
Are they walking around theneighborhoods?
Speaker 1 (31:34):
The answer is no people.
Well, and I say that's, it'sfunny that that you say that,
because I was like a pet peeveof mine before, because I've
seen it like, right, I stopped.
Uh, it's one of those storiesand I would say stop me if you
heard it before.
But yeah, one one evening I was, uh, we're in a late call and I
(31:54):
stopped by this little uhconvenience store to play a
lottery number and get a setright Right, right right.
And when I walked in there theguy was like the clerk was like
he's like he was.
You could tell that.
Look on his face.
He was like no police just everwalked in there to say, hey,
how are things going?
Or this, and that he was alwaysassociated with something bad.
And I'm like, well, maybe anddon't get me wrong I get the
(32:22):
whole community policing thingand it's cool.
I think a lot of people todaythey do things that we used to
do back in the day, like beforethe Internet or before
everything turned into like whatseemingly is a photo op, right,
yeah, I mean, you know I've hadsome people, I've known people
that as far as maybe being anofficer, maybe they didn't have
the best reputation or just, areyou talking agency or are you
(32:42):
talking about individuals?
I'm talking like individual,individual officers, whether
they have rank or not.
But even if they didn't haverank, they're still in a
managerial position.
When you're dealing with thepublic, you're still an
authoritative figure.
That's being recognized as suchyeah, and decisions that you
make, they do influence otherpeople.
(33:02):
But yeah, you just, you justsee these people and it's like
I've also seen that guy, like agirl in some cases uh, feed the
homeless, like reaching theirpocket, and say, hey, here's,
here's some, here's some money.
Go get yourself something toeat, because it's cold outside.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
We both work with officers that don't engage with
the public in the area that theypatrol.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
It turns into those people.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
I made every effort to go to the gas station where
the where, where our printersweren't right, you know, I
parked in those, in thoseparking lots.
Um, now, granted, those arehigh crime areas that aren't
always frequent, but I did makean effort to show that we have a
presence and you know, or the,or the grocery store that not
(34:04):
everybody went to.
I made an effort, but that'sjust my individual your
background, where you came fromright, my individual behavior.
I would encourage any anyofficers as listener or future
officers that's listening tothis podcast is engage your
community.
Yeah, engage your community.
(34:25):
It's just that simple.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
We know for a fact that you don't live in the same
community that you patrol Nope,and if you do, you get the side
eye unless you live in somewherereally nice and you get to
patrol somewhere really niceNope, and if you do, you get to
side-eye unless you live insomewhere really nice and you
get to patrol somewhere reallynice Right, we know that you
don't live in those areas, butthat's all the more reason why
you should engage the people inthose areas.
(34:50):
Yeah, and that's when I thinkwhen I got hired it was kind of
one of those and these peoplewere managers but it's kind of I
call it a detachment.
I mean you can be a goodmanagers, but it's kind of I
call it a detachment.
I mean you can be a goodmanager but still be detached.
And I hope as far as bringingpeople back into the fold,
because even in some trainingmodules that we used to go
(35:11):
through, like if a I'm justgoing to use it as an example
because if a white officer cango to an all-black area, that
officer, as presented in thepresentation, was in a area full
of minorities.
He wasn't a minority, he was inan area full of minorities.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
No, he is the minority.
Yeah, and you see how thingschange because, well, like, we
mentioned earlier, language isvery, very powerful and you have
to watch what comes out of yourmouth.
Yeah, Now I understand thatthey were trying to identify
geographically where you're ator demographically where you're
(35:50):
at for the masses.
But no, you are from that area,so you are the minority.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
Yeah, you're the outsider Right.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
You know, just like you know, anybody you know, want
to come here and be a citizen.
They immerse themselves intothe culture of this country,
which means that they, you know,learn how to live here.
Well, when you're an officer,if you're a patrol officer, you
have to learn the ways of thatcommunity.
(36:20):
You know, we have, you know, we, this area that we live in and
many areas around our greatnation there's, there's
different cultures, like I'veworked in Miami, all right, you
know how many different, almostbanished communities there.
(36:41):
You know, yeah, different, andyou, you have, you have, you
know, community, community.
I had to break Jamaicancommunity, hey, back in the day.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
I had to break up, almost like a knock down drag
out between one of one of theguys I worked with and a
prisoner, and it wasn't really agood guy, bad guy thing.
One was Cuban and one wasPuerto Rican.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
You even have it in the prisons?
Yeah, where you have to.
You know, jail officials haveto do interviews of the
prisoners before they come inbecause they may be involved in
gangs.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
They may have some prejudice.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
I mean.
So you have to know who you'redealing with.
And how are you going to learnthat just while I'm waiting for
a call and then you deal with it?
Then no, you go to the hey, allthese homeowner associations.
They have meetings at leastonce a month in those different
communities.
And then you've got the reccenters.
Why don't you go in the reccenter for a moment?
Speaker 1 (37:48):
Well, in every supervisory, everything that
we're talking about leads backto a supervisor in charge of a
certain thing, right?
Speaker 2 (37:57):
Everything more of a sector.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
Yeah Well, just stick with law enforcement.
People don't get if you getsucked up in it.
Law enforcement changes daily,every day.
It is not a-.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
It's changed since we left.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
Yes, 100%, it's changed, it's like, because it's
not, it always has.
If you don't stick your head upout of that hole and look
around, the stuff that you weredoing six months ago is already
outdated.
It's not acceptable.
It's not acceptable behavior,right, and your management is
you always try to be mid-level.
(38:31):
You're kind of like being a badguy.
It's like everything that comesout from the top whether the
upper crust has a stupid idea orsomething out here is like well
, this is changing.
You might have to change theway you're doing it, because one
thing cops don't like comingfrom management is change.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
Well, you know this is why I like talking to you
about about this, about thesubject of policing, is because
we both got different views onit.
I see and hear what you'resaying and my perspective of it
(39:09):
is I was middle management and Idon't look at myself as being a
bad guy.
I look at myself as providinginformation that the
organization wants and havingthose meetings with the
organization, being at the tablewith the organization and
(39:30):
knowing what they're trying toget.
Well, I've had thoseconversations where you're not
going to get it like that.
No, exactly.
Allow me, allow me to approachit a different way and I can get
you the same results right, andthat's what period reads all
about.
You know you can.
You can get the same results byapplying different techniques,
(39:53):
but you're only going to getthose results if you communicate
and you're applying.
You have to communicate withpeople.
Guys aren't going to want to doeverything that the bosses want
you to do.
Speaker 1 (40:05):
You mean, it's not just an email?
Speaker 2 (40:07):
No, that's horrible.
No, no, You're going to have toapply some different techniques
and that's another reason whyyou need to know your staff,
know the community that you'redealing with.
Not everybody's just going toblindly follow you.
No, If you think everybody'sgoing to blindly follow you, I'm
(40:29):
sorry that's not going tohappen.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
And that shouldn't be what you want as a manager.
Pardon, you shouldn't want thatas a manager.
Speaker 2 (40:36):
No.
And then there's another one.
I'm going to disagree with youall.
A lot of managers feel likethat's the way it is On the
balls and that's the way it'sgoing to go.
No, you can get what you want,but it's not going to be what
you want.
Speaker 1 (40:48):
Right, and there's always the aftermath.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
Right.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
Because it can't come off the wrong way, like, I
think, one of the bestsupervisors, that some of the
best supervisors I've had,because I've had a lot of great
supervisors and even what Iwould call bad supervisors.
You got to learn from them tooRight, that's some things that
you wouldn't incorporate in yourmanagement style, versus
certain things you would.
But one thing that I knew I wasrunning into a good manager if
(41:16):
I was doing something andperforming a task, and I did not
want to disappoint them.
Speaker 2 (41:21):
Now that was a great.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
Yeah, I didn't want to you don't want to disappoint
them because they literallytreated you so well and you
worked together.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
If you're a manager that can get your staff to feel
bad when they disappoint you?
Speaker 1 (41:36):
Yeah, You're doing something right?
Yes, you're doing somethingright.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
You're absolutely in there.
You can get more honey.
How is it you can get more antswith honey, or whatever it is,
somebody?
Speaker 1 (41:49):
Well, Google it and get back to you folks.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
Or somebody email me after they see the show and give
me some good analogies.
Speaker 1 (41:56):
But it's true though.
Yeah, yeah, it makes youemployees want to feel good,
Right, and you know, if youdon't give them that like if you
think they're replaceable cogs,you're going to get a lot of
what we see in these articles,whether it be in law enforcement
or just regular businessbecause you're not disposable.
Right, regular business becauseyou're not disposable.
I think coming into aconversation like you got to the
(42:18):
person that flips the burgersat McDonald's deserves this much
respect as a CEO of the company.
They do Because they do more foryou than that CEO will.
Well, they will.
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
I should have.
If anybody listening that knowsme and worked with me, they
know that I speak to everybody,from the person that comes in
and cleans, cleans my spaces, tothe the, the balls.
Everybody's important.
There's all.
This is a moving part.
Treat people how you want to be, how you want to be treated,
(42:55):
with respect.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
And don't dare think that they don't know more than
you about certain things.
You don't know everything,about everything.
Speaker 2 (43:03):
You don't know more than them.
You only know what you know.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
Well, management also has this.
The flaw, I would say, is thatyou have all these great
resources around you and youdon't have to know everything.
It's okay to go.
Well, charlie's an expert atthis.
Let me ask him this so I can domy job a little better, instead
of going.
I'm not going to ask because Idon't want to show that I don't
know as much as you.
That kind of bull crap thatalways kind of makes a shitty
(43:31):
manager.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
I had the luxury of moving around to different
departments and I wasn't booston the ground in a couple
different departments.
But over time, because of myleadership skills, I was able to
learn what you guys are doingand apply my leadership to help
(43:54):
you with your overall mission.
Right, I don't have to knoweverything.
You're the subject expert on it.
Show me how you guys been doingit and then you know.
It takes a lot to tell peoplehey, man, I don't know
everything.
Man, I was chosen to come overhere and lead you guys.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
Well, you know, I don't know who you supervise,
but I can tell by the way youtalk.
Like when you left people weresad.
That is another mark of a goodsupervisor.
Speaker 2 (44:28):
I appreciate my man.
I know that sounds cliche, butI really did appreciate them.
I know that sounds cliche, butI really did appreciate them and
it was hard for me to move onbecause it was something that
I've known, you know.
Speaker 1 (44:42):
And you felt like you were abandoning somebody.
No, never felt abandoned.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
Really no, because I've been in this game long
enough to know that, next up, noone's abandoned.
Next up, no one's abandonednext up.
But what I did feel was youknow, okay, that camaraderie's
camaraderie is is done, thatchapter of my life is done.
And whenever you open and close, close um chapters, well,
(45:09):
whenever you close one am Igonna open up another one, and
we talked on this before whereyou know, it felt it felt weird
that I don't have to sell phonesstay like bugging me about this
, bugging me about that.
You know I had a.
You know what's my worth nowmm-hmm well hey, man, I found
(45:29):
out that I have.
I'm very valuable.
Speaker 1 (45:32):
I remember first time I needed a laptop like I'm
gonna have a laptop anymore thefirst time I lost my frickin
personal phone in the house,right, you know what's craziest.
Speaker 2 (45:52):
And then you want to.
You want to email someone.
I say hey, can you call mynumber, but nine times out of
ten I got the ringer off.
Speaker 1 (46:00):
So how is that going to help?
So I got to listen.
Speaker 2 (46:03):
I'm going to tell you I got a system.
As soon as I come in the house,I put everything in one spot.
Speaker 1 (46:09):
It's an adjustment period, right, and people don't
realize how institutionalizedthat you are.
And I'll give you like threequick examples, and one was
involving me.
Like I was at Sam's and I wasready to get in my car and a $5
bill like is going across theparking lot and I picked it up
(46:29):
it wasn't on the fish line.
Yeah, part of me was like it'smy lucky day.
And the other part of me waslike should I do a property form
for this or is this a setup?
You know, it's like that, allthat stuff that you've been
ingrained like because you justdon't keep money you find.
And it's like that's a goodrule of thumb as far as your
your ethics right.
And I had another friend who,uh, he, he went, he went to the
gas station in his because heretired.
(46:51):
Yeah, he went to the gasstation to get gas and he,
freaking, wrote the mileage downon his freaking hands because,
he's been doing it for like 20years, like those little
institutionalized things.
Speaker 2 (47:03):
Recorders when you get to the city pole.
Speaker 1 (47:07):
But we do that as a whole and that's instilled.
You might have had managementsay this is the best way to do
this, or you want to instilllike, hey, if you find money,
find money.
Yeah, you know nothing, thingsthat preserve your career Right
being on time.
One guy was still setting hisalarm like he had an off-duty
job to go to.
(47:27):
He jumped up.
I was like, oh dude.
Speaker 2 (47:29):
Bro, I still do the same thing man.
Speaker 1 (47:31):
That's crazy man.
Speaker 2 (47:32):
I still do the same thing.
And then, hey, I catch myselfgetting aggravated when I don't
wake up at the time that Icondition myself to wake up to.
Yeah, or I even catch myselfnow oh, I got to get to bed.
Speaker 1 (47:48):
But check this out A lot of it's you, but a lot of it
is, at some point, somemanagerial aspect of making you
the person that you are to beefficient, because you're just
describing efficiency Waking upand not oversleeping, not being
late, making sure your modelsare down.
Speaker 2 (48:04):
Yeah, total accountability You're something
green.
And you know, like I said,those are a couple struggles
with me.
Who am I going to beaccountable for?
Right, you know my daughtersare grown.
You know they call and check upon me, but they got their stuff
together.
Who am I going to beaccountable for?
Speaker 1 (48:22):
And just that whole identity thing as far as the
managerial systems andeverything.
Those are things that I thinkas far as your systems as
(48:45):
management.
Speaker 2 (48:45):
People need to more train you or teach you how to
transition, because no one willhelp you.
Well, that's funny becauseeventually I want this to lead
to that where folks that arecoming out of our profession
talking to them, you know,getting them lined up to
incorporate all those skillsthat's provided they want to,
you know seek another careerafter they get done.
I'm looking forward todeveloping something for those
(49:08):
individuals that are interestedin my message to them that, hey,
look, look, that was yourprevious career.
You can develop yourselfsomething coming out and I can
help.
I can help you with that andthat's something that I want,
you know, get started for folks,you know, for folks within the
(49:29):
next couple years.
But first I had to get myselflined up and all the things that
I've done so far share thatwith people that are coming out
of a career such as ours, wherethey're young, and that includes
military guys also.
Speaker 1 (49:51):
Yeah, services, and I wish I had a better
understanding and I was watchingit and it happened to me and
that's where I call it a failureof overall management,
including myself, like I had ayou know how you have the influx
of people that they're comingin and people are retiring out
and attrition and all that stuff.
(50:11):
I had like four or five peoplethat I supervised that retired
unless you were like a chosenone like everybody.
I had like four or five peoplethat I supervised that retired
Unless you were like a chosenone like everybody.
You know, if you were just likea worker, bee this
administration, the humanresources department and all
that, they act like.
These are people that have beendoing something for 20, 25
years.
(50:31):
There's no format on how toretire, there's a little thing,
but nobody's ever retired before.
So you kind of I've rented likea handful of people that were
almost like made to feel likedumbasses because they didn't
know how to retire, becauseeverything changed routinely.
Right, if I had a guy, I had.
I did a memo for a guy and thisis as far as being a management
(50:53):
did a memo.
You know, uh, you know,something's always wrong with a
memo because nobody looks at thecontent.
They're too worried aboutspacing and shit like that.
So we finally get it rightafter going back and forth, back
and forth, back and forth, itpasses through.
The next guy retires.
All I do is change the frickin'name and it's wrong.
It's like why won't you justlet people get out?
(51:16):
You know what it's wrong.
It's like why won't you justlet people get out, like you
said?
You know what it's saying.
And and the the spacing is toolow and in this, that and other.
And you know it's like letpeople go.
This is stressful enough forthem to retire, right?
And?
And just don't add that extrastress like they all happen.
It happened, happen with me.
It happened with my boss thatretired and the people below me.
(51:39):
Everybody had an issue.
All the memos were wrong thatwere accepted a month before
Because somebody came in andyeah, because everybody.
One thing about cops they don'twant to be like English majors,
like I don't give a damn ifit's spelled wrong or not, it's
like Charlie's retiring.
I don't give a damn if it'sspelled wrong or not, it's like
Charlie's retiring.
That's all it really needs tosay.
Speaker 2 (51:59):
On this date.
Yeah, they're memorializers.
Speaker 1 (52:02):
Yeah, it's like come on, man.
But that goes back to anotherthing, the aspect of an
adjustment that needs to beoccurring in management, and
it's more than just having turnit on a personal level.
There are people thatpsychologically scarred for
leaving, for no one's really.
Either they're tired of theprofession, or their drop time
(52:25):
was up, or there was always somecircumstance.
They're just not.
You know, they're mentallychecked out.
Yeah, and help them check outis all I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (52:36):
I would tell anybody to follow my philosophy.
I use both.
I use it both when I got out ofthe military after 10 years and
I used it after I retired fromthe Marshal Service A year out
from the projective date thatyou want to leave, that you're
expected to leave.
You need to start preparing toleave because it comes up quick
(52:59):
and you need to get your ducksin the row and no matter how
prepared, you are still gonna bescary.
Yes, and thank you for addingthat, no matter how prepared you
are, that journey is stillunknown.
So why not make it easier onyourself by prepping yourself
ahead of time?
You prep yourself in themorning.
You wake up, use the bathroom,you brush.
So why not make it easier onyourself by prepping yourself
ahead of time?
You prep yourself in themorning.
You wake up, you use thebathroom, you brush your teeth,
(53:21):
you wash your face.
Those are just normal practicesthat you routinely do.
Speaker 1 (53:28):
And a preaching on just things in the program.
Like just employees in general,you need a reason to get up in
the morning you need like justemployees in general, you need a
reason to get up in the morningyou need.
There's so many things thatthat I don't want to make it
sound like management needs tohold your hand about things, but
a lot of things are just takenfor granted.
Are you talking when you?
Speaker 2 (53:44):
say you need something to do.
Are you talking about, asemployee, why they're working or
what well they retire?
Speaker 1 (53:51):
well what both actually.
Just you know like, letsomebody know what their duties
are.
Let let them be a professionaland whatever they're you know
like.
Let somebody know what theirduties are, let them be a
professional in whatever they'reyou know.
Let them do their job.
Don't cover, don't micromanage.
Help them leave.
You know, one of the bestsupervisors I've ever had he was
like he literally said, andthis was like back in the 90s
(54:13):
he's like my job is to help yougo where you want to go, exactly
, and that was rare back then,because a lot of people just
want the worker bees to staythere as long as they can and
they don't care if you grow up.
Speaker 2 (54:24):
I've never held anybody back from hey.
Oh, you want me to relate whatto who?
Not a problem, Not a problem.
Speaker 1 (54:33):
You betrayed if you got transferred.
Speaker 2 (54:37):
What use are you to yourself and to the current team
that you're on if you don'twant to be there?
What use are you?
You're not valuable to yourselfif you're not happy where
you're at.
Speaker 1 (54:52):
Why be?
Speaker 2 (54:52):
in a relationship with something or someone that
you don't want to be in.
Speaker 1 (55:00):
Well, my observations are, and the reason why I like
what you're doing is because Ithink one thing I did not see
before I left just where I am.
I mean I'm grateful to workwhere I work, because it was
like very diverse no-transcript,I'm not talking like processes
(55:34):
of any agency or business.
Speaker 2 (55:40):
I'm just saying, as far as employee relations, well,
I've been to a few of those.
I've attended a few of thosecourses and a few of those
schools throughout my career,throughout my career, and
everything that you learn inthose leadership seminars or
(56:02):
course learning, you can applythat to your daily life.
You can I mean not just you,not just your staff, but you can
apply that to make your lifeeasier and how you function and
how you relate to people, bothprofessionally and personally.
(56:25):
The pure reach show that I'mdoing is not just for business,
it's also for personal usebecause, like I said, we're both
in a transformation and andwe're we have more time on our
hands, yeah, and and more, moretime to think and more time to
(56:48):
think and we're going to beassociating with more people in
our personal lives than in ourprofessional lives, unless you
know, like this is our businessyes, right, and we're.
You know we're applying thesetechniques to one another and to
also our colleagues andpodcasts and speaking and what
have you but we also need toapply these techniques to the
(57:12):
culture that we have outside ofpodcasts and I don't see why,
why anybody wouldn't want tolisten to the show, and I hope
that if anybody's listening tothe show, if there's any topics
that you want to talk about,let's see if we can, if we can,
put period rate into that topicthat you're talking about.
(57:33):
Like, if you allow me, there'sgoing to be other shows.
Well, there's going to beplenty of other shows in the
future that we're going todiscuss and it's going to be on
topics of taking care of thelittle things, putting people in
their right place.
You can read that for whateverway you want to read it, but
(57:55):
sometimes you need to put peoplein the right place.
You can read that for whateverway you want to read it, but
sometimes you need to put peoplein the right place, for good
and for bad, identifyingcharacter in everything, not
just people, but in everythingwhat's another good one,
pointing out people's strengths.
Speaker 1 (58:16):
These are all topics that I have for us for in the
future well, and that's what Iwas going to say, this is uh for
folks listening.
This is, this is an overallintroduction to his new podcast
and I'm going to uh my podcast.
The seniority report is thepodcast, but also I want to try
to upload this on the YouTubebecause I have a channel called
(58:38):
the Cutty Neck Bone Zone CuttyNeck that people love apparently
.
Speaker 2 (58:43):
Why you don't let me buy that man.
You should have let me boughtthat name.
Come on, I try to give him asteak dinner for it, but he
wouldn't sell it.
Speaker 1 (58:51):
But his podcast is going to be on both things and
you know we're going to go aheadand call it because, like he
said, we're going to like whathe's got going can be broken
down into segments and we won't.
We're hitting an hour on theshow right now but I'm just
saying, yeah, but we're going tobreak it down, or I would think
that he's going to break itdown to maybe like 20 to
(59:12):
30-minute segments and go fromthere Be very more topic
oriented.
Charlie Shaw, thank you forcoming in.
Kevin, appreciate you, bro.
Always that workout thismorning.
Folks, look at this guy.
Speaker 2 (59:29):
Look at you, man.
I'm still trying to drop some.
Speaker 1 (59:32):
No, we're doing good man.
Thanks for having me be able totalk to you about your show,
and I totally appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (59:39):
Thank you for your time, bro.
I'll see you in another week ortwo.
You got it.
Welcome to today's show, and right in the studio
today I have Mr Charlie Shawspecial guest.
Thank you, man, for coming in.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
No, thank you bro, after that workout that we did
this morning, I didn't think Iwas going to make it, but we got
through it.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
You saw me hobbling in here late.
No, I'm proud of you, man.
I saw you busting your buttthis morning.
You as well, but you as well.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
It's always a pleasure working out with you
guys.
At 8 o'clock I'm usually on 9.
But you know we had to get somethings done today, so we got in
there early.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Yeah, A lot of people weren't doing what we were
doing this morning, that's forsure.
Not at 8 o'clock and that'sanother show.
But Charlie's in here today andhe's telling me about his.
He's got a new podcast comingout and he can tell us about it
right now.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Appreciate you, man.
Well, as you know, I had aprevious podcast Well, it was
actually it was season one.
That podcast was called LittleMel Unfiltered.
I started that back in January,you know, right after I got
myself situated after retiringin September of 24.
Basically, it was aboutmotivating and inspiring others
(01:11):
to do great things.
I was interviewing folks thatyou know out in the community
and their employment.
However, they can motivateother people, I wanted to talk
to them to see if we can getthem to you know on the show and
and do more of that.
On a broader sense.
Well, the same show them thatjust renamed is basically the
(01:32):
same concept and that show isgoing to be called period and
you'll be able to find that showjust like you found my last
show.
and I'm really excited about it,so you want to.
You were asking me what is itread?
Speaker 1 (01:48):
well, yeah, and I, because I asked you about it a
little bit before the showstarted and uh, pure read for
the listeners.
That's a-r-e-t-e.
Right, it is a uh, is it asystem?
Speaker 2 (01:59):
yeah, it's um.
A reed is a ancient greek.
A REIT is an ancient Greek termthat signifies excellence and
(02:20):
any time that you know, both ofus was in leadership roles when
we were working in ourrespective law enforcement
agencies, me being in USMarshals and Orange County.
Such as yourself, we want tomotivate our people.
We want to show good leadership.
So I was reading something thatI'm doing now while I'm retired
, and I came across that wordREAD, and it explains best of
what I'm trying to seek formyself and also bring out in
(02:40):
others.
It represents the ideal ofreaching one's highest potential
and striving for perfection inall endeavors of life and
profession.
Enhancing a restate of mindmeans committing to personal and
professional excellence,continuously seeking to improve
oneself or help improve othersthrough living a life that
(03:03):
reflects the highest standardsand integrity, skills and
dedication to yourself andothers, so it really encompasses
all aspects of leadership inbusinesses, and no matter what
they are.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
It seems like the concept is going to be the same
as far as being good leaders,right, well, actually just a
good person overall.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Bingo, just a good person overall.
You know, I think we've lost.
I'm not going to say all of us,but I think that a lot of
people have lost that wherethey're just accepting what it
is right now, when they have thecapacity to be better each day,
(03:47):
like we strive to.
We strive to improve ourselveseach and every day.
So I just want to, you know,bring it back and remind folks
hey, man, you got greatness inyou man.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
People do need to be reminded that.
So is that.
Is that?
How do you think that'simportant in today's society?
Speaker 2 (04:06):
that is that, uh, how do you think that's uh
important in today's society?
Well, when you, when you lookat the grand scheme of things,
when you're talking about itbeing in society, one can, one
can say, okay, so let's say insociety, let's say something as
easy as just going out to eat,right, the person that's you
(04:32):
know that's waiting on you, forexample, listen, they know that
you're paying top dollar forthat hamburger.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
You're sitting down $18 hamburger Right.
They know that you're payingtop dollar for it.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
They didn't have to.
You, you know, come to yourrestaurant, so why not?
You know, show them that youappreciate them.
You know, make sure thateverything that they're ordering
I'm not saying kiss their buttor anything, but just show them
the respect, the respect of, youknow, hey, thank you for coming
into my shop.
Or when we're talking along thelines of our profession, law
(05:08):
enforcement, everybody knowsthat we have to.
You know, everybody knows thatwhat our jobs are, well, the
majority of people know what ourjobs are.
And with that respect, weprovide a service to the
community.
We should be excellent acrossthe board, even when we're
putting handcuffs on the personright, we should show that
(05:29):
person respect and because youknow there's, there's no reason
for air when you, when you, whenyou're looking for looking at
that in the grand scheme ofthings, if you're professional
across the board, right what canyou argue?
Speaker 1 (05:42):
yeah, and it should be nothing personal, ever
Nothing personal.
Yeah, and it's like when Ithink we actually I was talking
about a video earlier where itlooked like something, an
incident, got personal.
It's like you know Right, butyeah, so as far as the REIT
system is that, how do youincorporate that into your daily
(06:05):
life?
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Well, good thing, growth, orientation into your
environment, encouraging othersto strive towards greatness,
like, for example, we work out,we do the CrossFit we're pushing
each other each and every day,each and every day, or even
(06:43):
through exercises.
You know, hey, charlie, let'sget up the wall.
Hey, kev, we got to carry thisthing another 400 meters, or not
?
Yep.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Six months ago that wasn't happening like that.
But yeah, it's that concept andthe encouragement and the
teaching.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Right, you know it's cultivating, just as a person
waters a garden, right?
It's a good analogy.
Yeah, you know the reason whyyou're watering a garden.
You're planting a seed in agarden, right?
Okay, so you're expecting to,you know, harvest something, you
know, within a few weeks ormonths.
(07:22):
Well, that needs sunshine, itneeds water, it needs
nourishments.
You have to apply these thingsand sometimes we forget those
ingredients you know, orsometimes a person don't know
the proper ingredients.
(07:42):
You're going to have to taketime out.
You may have to take time outas a leader or as a friend.
That's not just on a leadershipside of it, that's business,
but on a personal level.
Sometimes you may have toremind a person.
A lot of times we don't want toremind our friends that, hey,
(08:06):
man, you can do great things,you can do whatever you want to
do.
You're just going to have toput the work in and apply it.
Well, I don't know how.
Well, you know what.
Maybe I know how, maybe I canshare with you, or maybe we can
find out together.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
And do you think you have to tweak things based on
generational differences?
Oh, of course, Because I'm gladyou brought that up.
Generational differences oh ofcourse.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Because I'm glad you brought that up we're, we're,
I'm not.
I'm not going to use thattwilight thing, but we finished
our career Correct, correct,right.
And what we're doing right nowis we're podcasting.
We don't have to do this, no.
But the reason why we're doingthis is because maybe we still
(08:45):
got some things that we want toinform people of.
Well, the reason why I createdPeery Read and I'm also doing
speaking engagements and I alsodo training is because I still
have that knowledge that someoneshared with me many moons ago,
right, and I find it necessarythat I return that Each one to
(09:07):
each one.
So, with the next generation offolks that's coming up, my
specialty is law enforcement.
If I can help groom or providesome of my knowledge and keep
learning, then maybe the peoplecoming up behind me may ask me
(09:30):
some questions or how would theygo about?
When you were a supervisor,what did you do in this
situation?
Or how would you handle thisperson?
Or how would you handle thisscenario?
So I feel it necessary for myown personal growth and also for
the growth of others is to tryto develop a podcast, train
(09:54):
materials, maybe even books atone time, maybe even little
manuals or books on trying tohelp the ones that's coming up
behind me.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Okay, now I'm going to tell you I went on an old man
rant just a few days agotalking about what you're
hitting on and as far as sharingyour knowledge, Right Back in
the day I don't know, maybe likeeight nine-year deputy or
officer, there was a, you know,you run into older guys and
everybody wanted to like write abook.
(10:24):
I think a couple of them did.
I think I've read a couple ofthem.
One of them was called like10-8.
I remember it's like that wasjust the thing, and then we
progressed, like doing thatprocess.
I never thought that hey, wewould be retired, like you
didn't even think about retiring.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Didn't even think about it.
It was so far out.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
But now look yeah but now look, the book turns into a
podcast, which is a lot easierthan writing a book.
Right, and what?
I find that, as far as teachingthings like you, have so much
to teach you as well.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
You're talking about in general.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Yeah, just in general .
Like, sometimes you see thingslike, oh man, why did they do
that?
Because nine times out of tenyou've been through it, or at
least you've seen it, and Idon't think that knowledge
should be wasted.
Because there was a day where,on a date, the book of what to
do used to be this big, Right,and then it got like super big
and then it turned into a discthat nobody ever looked at,
(11:20):
right, right.
So the people just got dumber.
I'm just going to say it, sorry.
People got dumber because itwas easier to ask than to go to
the computer.
It's not the kind of job whereyou go hey, let me go look.
Nobody's going to type that up,they're not going to do it.
It's like you either know it oryou don't.
Right, right, right.
But when they start doing thatand they start making the
information less accessible, itseems like it's more accessible,
(11:43):
but it's not.
So you have people going.
Uh, when you see some of themistakes and just stupid things
that people do and somemalicious things people do, it
sounds crazy, but it's like Ithink the newer generation
especially.
They need to be told like don't, don't double dip in your off
(12:05):
duty, kind of thing, or theyhave to be told what not to do
specifically because they don'tunderstand the whole totality of
it well, kev.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
You know as well as I do my policy is written by
written because of somebody'sname some things that people
have done or made those mistakes.
So we're not going to beat upthose who fail, because the way
(12:36):
I've been looking at things thelast few years and I've read a
few things failure is fine.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Yes, if you learn from it especially.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
And when you learn from something, you actually
fail forward.
You didn't fail backwards, youfailed forward.
If you're failing forward, youhave the capacity to learn from
your mistakes Absolutely, andthat's what peer reading is all
about.
You know, hey, you can learn somuch if you, you know, open
(13:12):
your eyes and listen.
You had two ears.
Listen with both of them.
You had two eyes.
Listen with both of them.
Speak, yeah, one mouth.
Be careful what comes out ofyour mouth.
Be careful how you use thewords that come out of your
mouth, absolutely.
And if you're how you use thewords that come out of your
mouth, absolutely, and if you'regoing to use those words, make
sure that those words are wordsthat's going to better yourself
and better others.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Yeah, and you test on on your, your podcast.
Like I said, just treatingpeople, respect what you just
covered.
Just a general employees needto feel like their input is
valued.
I mean you know it's like Imean I'll say tell me more about
(13:54):
the challenges of incorporatingyour program into daily lives
of individuals.
And like I was kind of givingmy little example, like it's
instilling that and there's likestate of mind like this is how
do you make people like aware ofjust of their surroundings and
(14:18):
doing the right thing and how itlooks two hours from now?
And you know it's kind of likeI know we're covering a broad
topic there, but there's verylittle.
I don't hear about too manytrue management.
It's kind of like I like whatyou're doing, because the true
management podcast of just downand down to earth, just what it
(14:42):
is right, right.
So how do you instill that towhat I would like to call like?
Some people are like just Iwon't call them dumbasses, but
they're unaware.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
They're unaware and they make life hard on
themselves I'd rather use wordsunaware than dumbasses, because
everybody has potential to um tomake themselves aware of uh, a
growth, but yeah, sometimes theydo represent dumbasses.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
Yeah, we've all been dumbasses here and there.
I've kicked myself many times.
I was a dumbass and you knowyou can recover, but you learn.
It's okay to be a dumbass ifyou learn.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Well, first off, I'd like to say that with me, after
retiring, I went ontransformation and that was for
my personal success.
I did well in my employment, Iwas happy with it, but I was
also seeking to improve myhealth, improve my mindset on
(15:44):
things outside of my previousemployment, because we get
cloudy we get really cloudy whenall we're doing is focusing on
work, and I found myself justfocusing on that and I wasn't
taking care of myself.
You know, I posted somepictures of my transformation
transformation and weight lossand I'm still working on that.
(16:07):
I'm still a work in progressand I'm happy with that because
I'm seeing the fruits of labor.
So, with that being said, youknow you got to set personal
goals and align it with your ownvalues when you're pursuing
self-improvement.
You got to live ethically.
(16:27):
Yes, you have to live ethically.
There's one thing that youshould never lose is those
ethics that you have, that'sbeen instilled in you, and
dedicate yourself to what you'retrying to achieve in your
journey or transformation, andstrive for excellence in all the
(16:51):
areas that lead to fulfillmentand balance.
Balance is very important.
Balance in your life is veryimportant, and that's something
that I noticed that I wasn'tdoing last year I wasn't
balancing.
Yes, I agree, I wasn't doing.
Last year I wasn't balancing.
Yes, I agree, I wasn't doing iteither, because you just get so
caught up, you get caught up,you know, and I shared all this
(17:12):
with you and didn't really knowyou, but we connected.
Once we found out that we had abackground, I was like, hey,
man, you're a year out from youknow, what did you do?
And I was, you know, I prettydid.
You pretty much did the samething, that that I was seeking
you.
You realize that there was somethings that you need to improve
and you got in the gym and youset yourself a podcast.
(17:36):
You know then, no, I didn'tknow.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
No, I didn't know you can reset the clock.
Yeah, you can reset.
You know to your abilities andyou're not.
You may not be able to run a 40.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
We're not trying, yeah exactly.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
But just the concept of being able to run again Right
and everything that the coachesinstill in you is a major
leadership role.
It kind of encompasses a lot ofwhat your podcast is about,
Because you know it's hard toteach an old dog new tricks and
they pull it off.
Role it kind of encompasses alot of what your podcast is
about, because it's hard toteach an old dog new tricks and
they pull it off.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Yeah, but you know what, If you leave me with some
water, man, I'm drinking it.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Yeah, there's a couple people.
I've been out of state ahandful of times and ever since
that little transformation pagethat you were talking about,
I've showed people hey, look atthis guy.
I remember when you got therearound Christmas and you were
talking about him four or fivemonths he looked like a
different person.
One girl told me that thesecond picture looked like you
(18:36):
know, the first picture.
You looked like the other guy'sfather.
I was like, well, I guessthat's a huge compliment, but
you could tell, like the secondpicture, the transformation I'm
sorry to belly laugh, no, butit's true.
Like the second picture, you'relike, you're super happy,
you're smiling.
The first picture was just likeLike the old man.
(18:57):
But yeah, it's like you thoughtyou were happy, but it was clear
that when you look at, likeyour facial expression, your
body and what you were doing,the second guy it's a different
guy, it's not the same guy.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Well, whoever told?
Speaker 1 (19:08):
you that I appreciate it.
Actually, it was the person yousaw me talk to yesterday.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Oh, okay, oh, the new one, yeah, the brand new one
yeah, Really yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
I was just telling her about the people
transforming in gym.
That was like most recent.
But yeah, other than that I'vebeen up north saying the same
things.
Right, right it's funny.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
You said that because I think Devin put me on there
in the show.
Hey, look at this guy man.
Anybody can do it.
It's crazy because people knowthat was good marketing for them
that wasn't like a yeartransformation, that was only a
few months, like that was comingin killing it.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
It was six months yeah, I remember the first time,
uh, when you came in like youknow, we had a see a handful of
people like who's willing tocommit to it, which is a lot of
uh, uh.
You know, like there's somepeople that come in it's like
okay, we going to see this guyor this girl again, and it might
come on two or three times andthen they're gone.
And I'm like I didn't even knowhim.
(20:11):
I'm like, ah, he's back, he'shere.
He's like there's thatconsistency.
He's like, well, this issomebody who's taking it
seriously, because a lot ofpeople, just like they think
they're, they're going to comein with that.
I want to date myself with the80s and 90s mentality of oh, I'm
going to still, and it's likedude, you're not that person,
Whatever you think you areyou're not that person, you're
not that dude anymore.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Yeah, you know, I get kind of sad when I see somebody
start because you know, sinceI've been there, right, there's
been some people that startedand they haven't come back, and
I get kind of sad about that manbecause the journey we're all
in the same journey, yeah, andthey won't stay around for that
(20:51):
support system.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
Man, we're here.
Yeah, trust me, I couldn't dothe stuff we did today a year
ago that wouldn't happen.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Oh, that would cancel a lot of people's membership.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
But it's like you get you try not to let them get
their asses handed to them onthe first day Right, and it's
like it gets back to once again.
It gets back to the leadershipthing, Like you want people.
It's like that realization thatI'm not in the shape that I
thought I was in and I'm not inhigh school anymore.
I'm not in my twenties and, tobe honest, to do three deep knee
(21:24):
bends might lay me up for alittle while.
It's hard to come to terms withthat, but you gotta go back.
You gotta come back and it,don't.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
It don't bite that hard.
You know it bites a little bit.
We got, we gotta admit it.
It do um, it do bite.
It bites a little bit but it'snot anything that you can't get
through.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Well, in your system, in this podcast, as far as
getting that motivation to comeback Right and you can apply it
to management also, as far asyour employees, just to have
them want to come in and performa task for you have them want
(22:07):
to come in and perform a taskright.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
You well, you know myself, I I managed a great
bunch of guys and there was alot of days where I had been
courage, even when I wasn'tdidn't want to be encouraged, or
even when I was down, I had toencourage them.
Hey look, man, we got to stayin this.
You know, we got to keeplooking for the bad guys.
We got gotta stay on top ofthese protection details.
We gotta stay on top of theseextraditions.
So my thing was listen, we'rein the moment, right now, but
(22:34):
this isn't forever.
Yeah, and a lot of you know,you have to build that culture
with folks to let them know thatyou are their support system,
that you are here for them.
You understand, you understandwhat they're going through
because every day is not bed ofroses.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
Yeah, and I hate to stereotype management, but we
were talking earlier there's adifference between, like,
entry-level management, middlemanagement and upper management.
They're so different and Ithink as far as you further up
the ladder, the more detachedyou normally become.
We had a few cool supervisorsthat were up there, but they
still were relatable.
They didn't forget where theycame from, I think.
(23:10):
I think that's the part that Iwould say rubbed me the wrong
way.
As far as being in management,like some of the people, like I
remember you when you started.
So this guy or girl made thesame mistake that you did in a
different era and you beat himup.
Yeah, and you beat him up andact like you don't understand.
I don't.
I don't subscribe to that pointof view because I still
(23:31):
remember like you can act likeyou can.
You forgot it because you tooksome tests and everything.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
But you're not infallible.
No, you're not.
You have your fouls, yeah,fouls, yeah.
And I was lucky enough.
I was lucky enough throughoutmy entire career.
Even with the military that Ihad, I had good managers that
weren't totally like that.
(23:56):
You know, if they made amistake, hey look, I made a
mistake on it, I made a bad callon that one, I'll get it better
.
So you know, that's my attitude.
But I have had some that theyain't admitted to nothing.
No, but guess what?
I ain't staying in thoseoperations very long because I
(24:16):
knew that that wasn't for me,right you may.
I'm that.
That wasn't for me, right youmay?
I'm not going to say which job.
It was one of those divisionswhere everybody wanted to get
into.
I got there and realized, man,you know what?
The grass really isn't thatgreen over here on this side.
(24:37):
It was because of the cultureRight, really isn't that great
or that green on this over hereon this side.
It was because of the culture,right, the culture is what made
me like I bust my butt to gethere and people don't even.
They don't even care about theprogram.
They're just here taking up aspace.
I don't think any.
Anyone should just be in aposition, just take up the space
or not leave when their time isup and continue to occupy that
(25:00):
space.
You have that also.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
You have that also and I question how effective of
a manager do you think you areif you're just not leaving a
spot and you should?
Like everybody, it's theconsensus that you've done your
time Like.
I'm talking to people that thatare losing money working like
oh yeah like you know if youretired you would make more
(25:22):
money than than if you stillstayed employed.
It's like how effective do youthink you are?
Or did you just not plan yourlife correctly?
Or just the ability of nothaving to be somebody anymore?
Speaker 2 (25:35):
well, until a person tell me why they're staying
around.
I don't want to assume, but youknow what?
We're pretty sharp.
We're called investigators.
We know that a lot of peoplejust stick around because they
don't want, you know, don't haveanything else planned.
Yeah, that's all they do.
You know what.
That's too bad for them,because there's a lot of life
(25:59):
out here, there's a lot ofliving out here and everything
shouldn't be so focused on youremployment.
But while you're in there, bethe best and do the best, and do
the best by your people.
Don't just sit on a positionjust because you can what I
noticed, and it's not just whereI work at it.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Literally I've talked to different entities and
different counties becauseeverybody thinks in just the law
enforcement community I'm justgoing to say there's an
understanding but people don'trealize that as far as being in
management, it's pretty muchpretty consistent.
But actually what you do fromcounty to county or city to city
(26:43):
, no one operates the same.
They have different.
Where we are at right nowthere's different codes that you
know like there's no generalconsensus overall about like
call signs and 10 codes andcertain procedures and you know
ordinances and stuff was likeoperate in their own zone.
(27:04):
Yeah, everybody, everybody'sdifferent.
That whole innovative thingwhere we're like I remember back
in the day we were looking likewe were sitting there watching
some screwed up uh taserincident, like it sparked a lot
of conversation.
But as far as being a bunch ofmanagers sitting around talking
and we're like well, how comeI'll give you a law enforcement
(27:26):
examples Like it was a taserincident, that, how come?
when it was like at a Wendy's orsomething, I think it happened
in Georgia, Right, and it waslike this guy got in a scuffle
when the officer picked pickedup the taser that apparently was
on him and started runningRight and turned around and shot
some darts Don't know if itdon't think it hit him, the guy
(27:46):
or the officer.
The guy, the guy running, hekind of did this and the officer
shot him and I think he killedhim.
So the argument it wasn't anargument, it was actually a
discussion.
It's like, well, why is a tasernon-lethal when you use it, but
it's lethal when somebody elseuses it?
Interesting yeah interesting.
(28:11):
It's like you were and it's likeand everybody's policy is
different, and but it sparksconversation because law
enforcement is pretty muchgauged by even the management
styles based on the community.
Yeah, problems here, problemsthere, like they're certain
you're not going to police thesame in wavelength mississippi
as you are, freaking.
(28:31):
Uh, yeah, it's like it's notthe same beast but it's the same
job, but it's just.
It's like it's not the samebeast but it's the same job, but
it's just.
Once again, things that happenstate to state, county to county
, even city to city, they'redifferent, like the use of force
.
That's part of the way yougovern also.
Yeah, so how do you manage that?
Because it's always different?
Speaker 2 (28:54):
Well, it sounds more of a policy and procedure
question that you're directingtoward me, but it also sounds
like a cultural police and theculture of that particular area.
I've always had the luxury ofworking for larger departments,
(29:22):
Not saying anything not puttingit in a negative sense of how
small-town USA managed theirpolice force, because they're
going to have a lot of reasonswhy use of force is more
prevalent than in larger placesand larger places probably had
(29:44):
the reverse response to that.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Yeah, call it anti-Griffith police work.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
But it all goes back to culture also.
When you mention, how can youapply a read in your personal
life, how can you apply a readin your personal life?
Those everything focuses backon how you treat people.
When I say when you apply whenwe were talking about personal,
(30:09):
now we're talking about businessor policing it all focuses back
on how you treat people andwhat I found also is how are you
communicating with folks?
bingo, that's huge how are youcommunicating with people in
your, in your, in your town?
Are you only communicating withpeople that, like you or you
(30:32):
know in interest, culture, race,ethnicity?
Do you have that makeup for allthose, um, you know?
Do you have that makeup on yourforce?
Uh?
Are you engaging with your uh,religious leaders, your business
owners?
Are you going out to theschools making sure that you
(30:55):
know the younger, youngergeneration see you not just as a
protector or a threat, butsomeone that they can actually
come up to you and say hey, youknow what I looked at when I was
growing up?
I didn't look at police asthreats.
I looked at I told you before Isaw deputy friendly, I know that
(31:16):
.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
We used to run out to the road.
You can see cars coming fromwhere I used to live, we used to
run out to the road so we couldjust wave to a cop car.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
I mean.
A lot of it has to do withculture.
Are police officers getting out?
Are they getting out of theirsquad cars?
Are they walking around theneighborhoods?
Speaker 1 (31:34):
The answer is no people.
Well, and I say that's, it'sfunny that that you say that,
because I was like a pet peeveof mine before, because I've
seen it like, right, I stopped.
Uh, it's one of those storiesand I would say stop me if you
heard it before.
But yeah, one one evening I was, uh, we're in a late call and I
(31:54):
stopped by this little uhconvenience store to play a
lottery number and get a setright Right, right right.
And when I walked in there theguy was like the clerk was like
he's like he was.
You could tell that.
Look on his face.
He was like no police just everwalked in there to say, hey,
how are things going?
Or this, and that he was alwaysassociated with something bad.
And I'm like, well, maybe anddon't get me wrong I get the
(32:22):
whole community policing thingand it's cool.
I think a lot of people todaythey do things that we used to
do back in the day, like beforethe Internet or before
everything turned into like whatseemingly is a photo op, right,
yeah, I mean, you know I've hadsome people, I've known people
that as far as maybe being anofficer, maybe they didn't have
the best reputation or just, areyou talking agency or are you
(32:42):
talking about individuals?
I'm talking like individual,individual officers, whether
they have rank or not.
But even if they didn't haverank, they're still in a
managerial position.
When you're dealing with thepublic, you're still an
authoritative figure.
That's being recognized as suchyeah, and decisions that you
make, they do influence otherpeople.
(33:02):
But yeah, you just, you justsee these people and it's like
I've also seen that guy, like agirl in some cases uh, feed the
homeless, like reaching theirpocket, and say, hey, here's,
here's some, here's some money.
Go get yourself something toeat, because it's cold outside.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
We both work with officers that don't engage with
the public in the area that theypatrol.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
It turns into those people.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
I made every effort to go to the gas station where
the where, where our printersweren't right, you know, I
parked in those, in thoseparking lots.
Um, now, granted, those arehigh crime areas that aren't
always frequent, but I did makean effort to show that we have a
presence and you know, or the,or the grocery store that not
(34:04):
everybody went to.
I made an effort, but that'sjust my individual your
background, where you came fromright, my individual behavior.
I would encourage any anyofficers as listener or future
officers that's listening tothis podcast is engage your
community.
Yeah, engage your community.
(34:25):
It's just that simple.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
We know for a fact that you don't live in the same
community that you patrol Nope,and if you do, you get the side
eye unless you live in somewherereally nice and you get to
patrol somewhere really niceNope, and if you do, you get to
side-eye unless you live insomewhere really nice and you
get to patrol somewhere reallynice Right, we know that you
don't live in those areas, butthat's all the more reason why
you should engage the people inthose areas.
(34:50):
Yeah, and that's when I thinkwhen I got hired it was kind of
one of those and these peoplewere managers but it's kind of I
call it a detachment.
I mean you can be a goodmanagers, but it's kind of I
call it a detachment.
I mean you can be a goodmanager but still be detached.
And I hope as far as bringingpeople back into the fold,
because even in some trainingmodules that we used to go
(35:11):
through, like if a I'm justgoing to use it as an example
because if a white officer cango to an all-black area, that
officer, as presented in thepresentation, was in a area full
of minorities.
He wasn't a minority, he was inan area full of minorities.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
No, he is the minority.
Yeah, and you see how thingschange because, well, like, we
mentioned earlier, language isvery, very powerful and you have
to watch what comes out of yourmouth.
Yeah, Now I understand thatthey were trying to identify
geographically where you're ator demographically where you're
(35:50):
at for the masses.
But no, you are from that area,so you are the minority.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
Yeah, you're the outsider Right.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
You know, just like you know, anybody you know, want
to come here and be a citizen.
They immerse themselves intothe culture of this country,
which means that they, you know,learn how to live here.
Well, when you're an officer,if you're a patrol officer, you
have to learn the ways of thatcommunity.
(36:20):
You know, we have, you know, we, this area that we live in and
many areas around our greatnation there's, there's
different cultures, like I'veworked in Miami, all right, you
know how many different, almostbanished communities there.
(36:41):
You know, yeah, different, andyou, you have, you have, you
know, community, community.
I had to break Jamaicancommunity, hey, back in the day.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
I had to break up, almost like a knock down drag
out between one of one of theguys I worked with and a
prisoner, and it wasn't really agood guy, bad guy thing.
One was Cuban and one wasPuerto Rican.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
You even have it in the prisons?
Yeah, where you have to.
You know, jail officials haveto do interviews of the
prisoners before they come inbecause they may be involved in
gangs.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
They may have some prejudice.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
I mean.
So you have to know who you'redealing with.
And how are you going to learnthat just while I'm waiting for
a call and then you deal with it?
Then no, you go to the hey, allthese homeowner associations.
They have meetings at leastonce a month in those different
communities.
And then you've got the reccenters.
Why don't you go in the reccenter for a moment?
Speaker 1 (37:48):
Well, in every supervisory, everything that
we're talking about leads backto a supervisor in charge of a
certain thing, right?
Speaker 2 (37:57):
Everything more of a sector.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
Yeah Well, just stick with law enforcement.
People don't get if you getsucked up in it.
Law enforcement changes daily,every day.
It is not a-.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
It's changed since we left.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
Yes, 100%, it's changed, it's like, because it's
not, it always has.
If you don't stick your head upout of that hole and look
around, the stuff that you weredoing six months ago is already
outdated.
It's not acceptable.
It's not acceptable behavior,right, and your management is
you always try to be mid-level.
(38:31):
You're kind of like being a badguy.
It's like everything that comesout from the top whether the
upper crust has a stupid idea orsomething out here is like well
, this is changing.
You might have to change theway you're doing it, because one
thing cops don't like comingfrom management is change.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
Well, you know this is why I like talking to you
about about this, about thesubject of policing, is because
we both got different views onit.
I see and hear what you'resaying and my perspective of it
(39:09):
is I was middle management and Idon't look at myself as being a
bad guy.
I look at myself as providinginformation that the
organization wants and havingthose meetings with the
organization, being at the tablewith the organization and
(39:30):
knowing what they're trying toget.
Well, I've had thoseconversations where you're not
going to get it like that.
No, exactly.
Allow me, allow me to approachit a different way and I can get
you the same results right, andthat's what period reads all
about.
You know you can.
You can get the same results byapplying different techniques,
(39:53):
but you're only going to getthose results if you communicate
and you're applying.
You have to communicate withpeople.
Guys aren't going to want to doeverything that the bosses want
you to do.
Speaker 1 (40:05):
You mean, it's not just an email?
Speaker 2 (40:07):
No, that's horrible.
No, no, You're going to have toapply some different techniques
and that's another reason whyyou need to know your staff,
know the community that you'redealing with.
Not everybody's just going toblindly follow you.
No, If you think everybody'sgoing to blindly follow you, I'm
(40:29):
sorry that's not going tohappen.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
And that shouldn't be what you want as a manager.
Pardon, you shouldn't want thatas a manager.
Speaker 2 (40:36):
No.
And then there's another one.
I'm going to disagree with youall.
A lot of managers feel likethat's the way it is On the
balls and that's the way it'sgoing to go.
No, you can get what you want,but it's not going to be what
you want.
Speaker 1 (40:48):
Right, and there's always the aftermath.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
Right.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
Because it can't come off the wrong way, like, I
think, one of the bestsupervisors, that some of the
best supervisors I've had,because I've had a lot of great
supervisors and even what Iwould call bad supervisors.
You got to learn from them tooRight, that's some things that
you wouldn't incorporate in yourmanagement style, versus
certain things you would.
But one thing that I knew I wasrunning into a good manager if
(41:16):
I was doing something andperforming a task, and I did not
want to disappoint them.
Speaker 2 (41:21):
Now that was a great.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
Yeah, I didn't want to you don't want to disappoint
them because they literallytreated you so well and you
worked together.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
If you're a manager that can get your staff to feel
bad when they disappoint you?
Speaker 1 (41:36):
Yeah, You're doing something right?
Yes, you're doing somethingright.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
You're absolutely in there.
You can get more honey.
How is it you can get more antswith honey, or whatever it is,
somebody?
Speaker 1 (41:49):
Well, Google it and get back to you folks.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
Or somebody email me after they see the show and give
me some good analogies.
Speaker 1 (41:56):
But it's true though.
Yeah, yeah, it makes youemployees want to feel good,
Right, and you know, if youdon't give them that like if you
think they're replaceable cogs,you're going to get a lot of
what we see in these articles,whether it be in law enforcement
or just regular businessbecause you're not disposable.
Right, regular business becauseyou're not disposable.
I think coming into aconversation like you got to the
(42:18):
person that flips the burgersat McDonald's deserves this much
respect as a CEO of the company.
They do Because they do more foryou than that CEO will.
Well, they will.
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
I should have.
If anybody listening that knowsme and worked with me, they
know that I speak to everybody,from the person that comes in
and cleans, cleans my spaces, tothe the, the balls.
Everybody's important.
There's all.
This is a moving part.
Treat people how you want to be, how you want to be treated,
(42:55):
with respect.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
And don't dare think that they don't know more than
you about certain things.
You don't know everything,about everything.
Speaker 2 (43:03):
You don't know more than them.
You only know what you know.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
Well, management also has this.
The flaw, I would say, is thatyou have all these great
resources around you and youdon't have to know everything.
It's okay to go.
Well, charlie's an expert atthis.
Let me ask him this so I can domy job a little better, instead
of going.
I'm not going to ask because Idon't want to show that I don't
know as much as you.
That kind of bull crap thatalways kind of makes a shitty
(43:31):
manager.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
I had the luxury of moving around to different
departments and I wasn't booston the ground in a couple
different departments.
But over time, because of myleadership skills, I was able to
learn what you guys are doingand apply my leadership to help
(43:54):
you with your overall mission.
Right, I don't have to knoweverything.
You're the subject expert on it.
Show me how you guys been doingit and then you know.
It takes a lot to tell peoplehey, man, I don't know
everything.
Man, I was chosen to come overhere and lead you guys.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
Well, you know, I don't know who you supervise,
but I can tell by the way youtalk.
Like when you left people weresad.
That is another mark of a goodsupervisor.
Speaker 2 (44:28):
I appreciate my man.
I know that sounds cliche, butI really did appreciate them.
I know that sounds cliche, butI really did appreciate them and
it was hard for me to move onbecause it was something that
I've known, you know.
Speaker 1 (44:42):
And you felt like you were abandoning somebody.
No, never felt abandoned.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
Really no, because I've been in this game long
enough to know that, next up, noone's abandoned.
Next up, no one's abandonednext up.
But what I did feel was youknow, okay, that camaraderie's
camaraderie is is done, thatchapter of my life is done.
And whenever you open and close, close um chapters, well,
(45:09):
whenever you close one am Igonna open up another one, and
we talked on this before whereyou know, it felt it felt weird
that I don't have to sell phonesstay like bugging me about this
, bugging me about that.
You know I had a.
You know what's my worth nowmm-hmm well hey, man, I found
(45:29):
out that I have.
I'm very valuable.
Speaker 1 (45:32):
I remember first time I needed a laptop like I'm
gonna have a laptop anymore thefirst time I lost my frickin
personal phone in the house,right, you know what's craziest.
Speaker 2 (45:52):
And then you want to.
You want to email someone.
I say hey, can you call mynumber, but nine times out of
ten I got the ringer off.
Speaker 1 (46:00):
So how is that going to help?
So I got to listen.
Speaker 2 (46:03):
I'm going to tell you I got a system.
As soon as I come in the house,I put everything in one spot.
Speaker 1 (46:09):
It's an adjustment period, right, and people don't
realize how institutionalizedthat you are.
And I'll give you like threequick examples, and one was
involving me.
Like I was at Sam's and I wasready to get in my car and a $5
bill like is going across theparking lot and I picked it up
(46:29):
it wasn't on the fish line.
Yeah, part of me was like it'smy lucky day.
And the other part of me waslike should I do a property form
for this or is this a setup?
You know, it's like that, allthat stuff that you've been
ingrained like because you justdon't keep money you find.
And it's like that's a goodrule of thumb as far as your
your ethics right.
And I had another friend who,uh, he, he went, he went to the
gas station in his because heretired.
(46:51):
Yeah, he went to the gasstation to get gas and he,
freaking, wrote the mileage downon his freaking hands because,
he's been doing it for like 20years, like those little
institutionalized things.
Speaker 2 (47:03):
Recorders when you get to the city pole.
Speaker 1 (47:07):
But we do that as a whole and that's instilled.
You might have had managementsay this is the best way to do
this, or you want to instilllike, hey, if you find money,
find money.
Yeah, you know nothing, thingsthat preserve your career Right
being on time.
One guy was still setting hisalarm like he had an off-duty
job to go to.
(47:27):
He jumped up.
I was like, oh dude.
Speaker 2 (47:29):
Bro, I still do the same thing man.
Speaker 1 (47:31):
That's crazy man.
Speaker 2 (47:32):
I still do the same thing.
And then, hey, I catch myselfgetting aggravated when I don't
wake up at the time that Icondition myself to wake up to.
Yeah, or I even catch myselfnow oh, I got to get to bed.
Speaker 1 (47:48):
But check this out A lot of it's you, but a lot of it
is, at some point, somemanagerial aspect of making you
the person that you are to beefficient, because you're just
describing efficiency Waking upand not oversleeping, not being
late, making sure your modelsare down.
Speaker 2 (48:04):
Yeah, total accountability You're something
green.
And you know, like I said,those are a couple struggles
with me.
Who am I going to beaccountable for?
Right, you know my daughtersare grown.
You know they call and check upon me, but they got their stuff
together.
Who am I going to beaccountable for?
Speaker 1 (48:22):
And just that whole identity thing as far as the
managerial systems andeverything.
Those are things that I thinkas far as your systems as
(48:45):
management.
Speaker 2 (48:45):
People need to more train you or teach you how to
transition, because no one willhelp you.
Well, that's funny becauseeventually I want this to lead
to that where folks that arecoming out of our profession
talking to them, you know,getting them lined up to
incorporate all those skillsthat's provided they want to,
you know seek another careerafter they get done.
I'm looking forward todeveloping something for those
(49:08):
individuals that are interestedin my message to them that, hey,
look, look, that was yourprevious career.
You can develop yourselfsomething coming out and I can
help.
I can help you with that andthat's something that I want,
you know, get started for folks,you know, for folks within the
(49:29):
next couple years.
But first I had to get myselflined up and all the things that
I've done so far share thatwith people that are coming out
of a career such as ours, wherethey're young, and that includes
military guys also.
Speaker 1 (49:51):
Yeah, services, and I wish I had a better
understanding and I was watchingit and it happened to me and
that's where I call it a failureof overall management,
including myself, like I had ayou know how you have the influx
of people that they're comingin and people are retiring out
and attrition and all that stuff.
(50:11):
I had like four or five peoplethat I supervised that retired
unless you were like a chosenone like everybody.
I had like four or five peoplethat I supervised that retired
Unless you were like a chosenone like everybody.
You know, if you were just likea worker, bee this
administration, the humanresources department and all
that, they act like.
These are people that have beendoing something for 20, 25
years.
(50:31):
There's no format on how toretire, there's a little thing,
but nobody's ever retired before.
So you kind of I've rented likea handful of people that were
almost like made to feel likedumbasses because they didn't
know how to retire, becauseeverything changed routinely.
Right, if I had a guy, I had.
I did a memo for a guy and thisis as far as being a management
(50:53):
did a memo.
You know, uh, you know,something's always wrong with a
memo because nobody looks at thecontent.
They're too worried aboutspacing and shit like that.
So we finally get it rightafter going back and forth, back
and forth, back and forth, itpasses through.
The next guy retires.
All I do is change the frickin'name and it's wrong.
It's like why won't you justlet people get out?
(51:16):
You know what it's wrong.
It's like why won't you justlet people get out, like you
said?
You know what it's saying.
And and the the spacing is toolow and in this, that and other.
And you know it's like letpeople go.
This is stressful enough forthem to retire, right?
And?
And just don't add that extrastress like they all happen.
It happened, happen with me.
It happened with my boss thatretired and the people below me.
(51:39):
Everybody had an issue.
All the memos were wrong thatwere accepted a month before
Because somebody came in andyeah, because everybody.
One thing about cops they don'twant to be like English majors,
like I don't give a damn ifit's spelled wrong or not, it's
like Charlie's retiring.
I don't give a damn if it'sspelled wrong or not, it's like
Charlie's retiring.
That's all it really needs tosay.
Speaker 2 (51:59):
On this date.
Yeah, they're memorializers.
Speaker 1 (52:02):
Yeah, it's like come on, man.
But that goes back to anotherthing, the aspect of an
adjustment that needs to beoccurring in management, and
it's more than just having turnit on a personal level.
There are people thatpsychologically scarred for
leaving, for no one's really.
Either they're tired of theprofession, or their drop time
(52:25):
was up, or there was always somecircumstance.
They're just not.
You know, they're mentallychecked out.
Yeah, and help them check outis all I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (52:36):
I would tell anybody to follow my philosophy.
I use both.
I use it both when I got out ofthe military after 10 years and
I used it after I retired fromthe Marshal Service A year out
from the projective date thatyou want to leave, that you're
expected to leave.
You need to start preparing toleave because it comes up quick
(52:59):
and you need to get your ducksin the row and no matter how
prepared, you are still gonna bescary.
Yes, and thank you for addingthat, no matter how prepared you
are, that journey is stillunknown.
So why not make it easier onyourself by prepping yourself
ahead of time?
You prep yourself in themorning.
You wake up, use the bathroom,you brush.
So why not make it easier onyourself by prepping yourself
ahead of time?
You prep yourself in themorning.
You wake up, you use thebathroom, you brush your teeth,
(53:21):
you wash your face.
Those are just normal practicesthat you routinely do.
Speaker 1 (53:28):
And a preaching on just things in the program.
Like just employees in general,you need a reason to get up in
the morning you need like justemployees in general, you need a
reason to get up in the morningyou need.
There's so many things thatthat I don't want to make it
sound like management needs tohold your hand about things, but
a lot of things are just takenfor granted.
Are you talking when you?
Speaker 2 (53:44):
say you need something to do.
Are you talking about, asemployee, why they're working or
what well they retire?
Speaker 1 (53:51):
well what both actually.
Just you know like, letsomebody know what their duties
are.
Let let them be a professionaland whatever they're you know
like.
Let somebody know what theirduties are, let them be a
professional in whatever they'reyou know.
Let them do their job.
Don't cover, don't micromanage.
Help them leave.
You know, one of the bestsupervisors I've ever had he was
like he literally said, andthis was like back in the 90s
(54:13):
he's like my job is to help yougo where you want to go, exactly
, and that was rare back then,because a lot of people just
want the worker bees to staythere as long as they can and
they don't care if you grow up.
Speaker 2 (54:24):
I've never held anybody back from hey.
Oh, you want me to relate whatto who?
Not a problem, Not a problem.
Speaker 1 (54:33):
You betrayed if you got transferred.
Speaker 2 (54:37):
What use are you to yourself and to the current team
that you're on if you don'twant to be there?
What use are you?
You're not valuable to yourselfif you're not happy where
you're at.
Speaker 1 (54:52):
Why be?
Speaker 2 (54:52):
in a relationship with something or someone that
you don't want to be in.
Speaker 1 (55:00):
Well, my observations are, and the reason why I like
what you're doing is because Ithink one thing I did not see
before I left just where I am.
I mean I'm grateful to workwhere I work, because it was
like very diverse no-transcript,I'm not talking like processes
(55:34):
of any agency or business.
Speaker 2 (55:40):
I'm just saying, as far as employee relations, well,
I've been to a few of those.
I've attended a few of thosecourses and a few of those
schools throughout my career,throughout my career, and
everything that you learn inthose leadership seminars or
(56:02):
course learning, you can applythat to your daily life.
You can I mean not just you,not just your staff, but you can
apply that to make your lifeeasier and how you function and
how you relate to people, bothprofessionally and personally.
(56:25):
The pure reach show that I'mdoing is not just for business,
it's also for personal usebecause, like I said, we're both
in a transformation and andwe're we have more time on our
hands, yeah, and and more, moretime to think and more time to
(56:48):
think and we're going to beassociating with more people in
our personal lives than in ourprofessional lives, unless you
know, like this is our businessyes, right, and we're.
You know we're applying thesetechniques to one another and to
also our colleagues andpodcasts and speaking and what
have you but we also need toapply these techniques to the
(57:12):
culture that we have outside ofpodcasts and I don't see why,
why anybody wouldn't want tolisten to the show, and I hope
that if anybody's listening tothe show, if there's any topics
that you want to talk about,let's see if we can, if we can,
put period rate into that topicthat you're talking about.
(57:33):
Like, if you allow me, there'sgoing to be other shows.
Well, there's going to beplenty of other shows in the
future that we're going todiscuss and it's going to be on
topics of taking care of thelittle things, putting people in
their right place.
You can read that for whateverway you want to read it, but
(57:55):
sometimes you need to put peoplein the right place.
You can read that for whateverway you want to read it, but
sometimes you need to put peoplein the right place, for good
and for bad, identifyingcharacter in everything, not
just people, but in everythingwhat's another good one,
pointing out people's strengths.
Speaker 1 (58:16):
These are all topics that I have for us for in the
future well, and that's what Iwas going to say, this is uh for
folks listening.
This is, this is an overallintroduction to his new podcast
and I'm going to uh my podcast.
The seniority report is thepodcast, but also I want to try
to upload this on the YouTubebecause I have a channel called
(58:38):
the Cutty Neck Bone Zone CuttyNeck that people love apparently
.
Speaker 2 (58:43):
Why you don't let me buy that man.
You should have let me boughtthat name.
Come on, I try to give him asteak dinner for it, but he
wouldn't sell it.
Speaker 1 (58:51):
But his podcast is going to be on both things and
you know we're going to go aheadand call it because, like he
said, we're going to like whathe's got going can be broken
down into segments and we won't.
We're hitting an hour on theshow right now but I'm just
saying, yeah, but we're going tobreak it down, or I would think
that he's going to break itdown to maybe like 20 to
(59:12):
30-minute segments and go fromthere Be very more topic
oriented.
Charlie Shaw, thank you forcoming in.
Kevin, appreciate you, bro.
Always that workout thismorning.
Folks, look at this guy.
Speaker 2 (59:29):
Look at you, man.
I'm still trying to drop some.
Speaker 1 (59:32):
No, we're doing good man.
Thanks for having me be able totalk to you about your show,
and I totally appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (59:39):
Thank you for your time, bro.
I'll see you in another week ortwo.
You got it.
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