January 10, 2025 • 40 mins
In this gripping conclusion of Hans Gustafsson’s story, Part 2 dives into the raw, brutal reality of addiction recovery. Hans shares his experience going cold turkey in jail, enduring months of physical and mental torment. With no choice but to fight through the excruciating withdrawal symptoms, he recounts how writing, fitness, and sheer grit became his lifelines.
Hans opens up about the long road to rebuilding his life—how it took 18 months to fully feel like himself again and why relapse prevention requires more than just willpower. He highlights the importance of having hobbies, adopting a fitness routine, and retraining the brain to embrace normality after years of chaos. His advice is invaluable for anyone struggling with addiction or supporting someone on the road to recovery.
Through powerful anecdotes, Hans reveals how his lowest moments became a turning point, inspiring him to help others break free from the grip of addiction. This episode isn’t just about recovery—it’s about rediscovering life and finding purpose. Hans’ honesty, wisdom, and resilience make this a must-listen for anyone seeking hope and understanding.
If you or someone you know needs help, contact Alcohol and Drug Support (1800 177 833) or seek professional guidance.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Pure Grit with Paula McGrath. If you search
the word grit, you'd see that it means to have courage,
show strength of character, passion, and perseverance. Throughout the series,
paul chat to guess from all walks of life who
have shown pure grit to get to where they are now. Paula, Paula, Yeah, look,
(00:26):
he looks fine. I've done the intro, so ready for
you to talk now? Yeah, you do your talking things.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Welcome back to Pure Grit. We continue on now with
part two of Hans Gustafson. This part of the podcast
we discuss how Han's got clean off ice and what
happened because he ends up going to jail. Enjoy part two.
You then you stayed on it for like two years,
but then how did you get off?
Speaker 3 (00:56):
So during this process as this few years is when
I was in the drug world, you know, I was
you became like a bit of figure down when I
was just you know, doing pretty well, and from there
it was feeding my habit and stuff. And during that
two year period was on just where everything started like
went downhill. So I had had a number of I
had great number of things. Are a few businesses going
(01:19):
so forth. Then from there I just went through like
one secret of events, like a traumatic event, and this
is where things once started spiraling down for me. And
this is what I started using, started using more and
more and more of it. So given like one example,
so one event like this is back in was a
twenty eighteen to a New Year's Eve to twenty nineteen,
and I was at a big boake festival and from
(01:43):
there I was, you know, was you know, I was
seeing a girl there at the time, and I said
I had to go back just before midnight because a day.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
After I had to fight in New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
And during this process, I was driving home and this
is like thirty minutes before midnight.
Speaker 4 (01:57):
I was driving and this.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Is just before the Gonfield's exits.
Speaker 4 (02:02):
So on the highway and I went and.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
You know, at that time, as I was driving, I
see something, you know, side of the bushes, and the
next thing I know, this person just jumps in front
of me like like Hundrek's nour.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
There, Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
And you know that that process there was just I
saw it jumping can around with that smashed and born
you know what up in that sequence, a person decided
to take his own life and and use me as
a vessel.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
And and this is.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Like that's that was like one event and that's where
things went super downhill for me where when I looked at.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
It, someone jumped in front of your car.
Speaker 4 (02:45):
Yes, this isn't two thous that end.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
And I had another one as well as twenty sixteen
as well, like I do on a motorbike, was on
dream driving and he came into my lane when he
was on the other side came and these are like
as where I thought, like, it doesn't affect you, but
at that time you just sort of just go I
sort of like didn't care anymore, Like I, well, I'm
(03:08):
seeing that this is what life's about, and funker, I.
Speaker 4 (03:11):
Ain't give a fuck anymore.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
And yes, this is where we've got a point where
I was in a relationship for like four and a
half years and split from there, I experienced having like
description drugs with draws for the first time, and from
there having these and they went to other like sequence
of events and once another to the point where you
can say that one of these events was like, oh,
(03:33):
that was like a Monday afternoon, Tuesday night, spoaking.
Speaker 4 (03:39):
Friday morning and so forth.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
And this is these events where like these events stopped
so just wide into me. And this is where I
started just using more and more and I went from
having like a lot of things and traveled the world.
I had nothing like no issues and then to spoiled
down massively went through all these keeps to these like
traumatic events to the point where this is like it
(04:02):
was a twenty twenty so during that period where I
decided to there's a four separate occasions I decided to
like take my own life and for separate occasions and
and ya, I'm so fortunate, like something came in the
way that stopped from doing it. And there and this
is this and this is where there interested fart began
(04:24):
when it came to twenty twenty one where I get
done for for like a commercial twenty of one killer
method vitamine.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
And oh so you got nicked by the cops. Yes,
and this would have been hot potentially what has saved
you han'ts isn't it? So?
Speaker 3 (04:46):
All honestly, it was either going to jail or either
one of those two. I agree, like that's there's no
way around it. And when I got done, man, that
really like obviously fucking sucks.
Speaker 4 (04:59):
So yeah, and I just.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
Talking about I was standing this is I was up
up north of rock Campton, so this is like very horrific.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
I was just that's when you got you got, you
got caught in.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
I was up north in rock Campton, yes, and just
from there it just felt like I remember just standing
in the in the wash in just in the watchhouse.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
And so you would have been making a lot of
money too, you would have been flying high.
Speaker 4 (05:26):
You see. I was on just on top of the world.
Had everything you.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Were dealing, but were you're taking.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
I was, I was using you, We're using it, okay.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
And what it is interesting is where when you start
taking a point and when you're using every day, you
got the stage where the talents, you build a talents
real quick to it. I start using law and war
and just from there just this is what the most
This is where I'm explaining how where things started transforming
for me is the fact that standing in this in
the watchhouse, just just look the right hand side and
(06:01):
the cell next to me, there was there was a
guy on the floor just just shaking, and so he
was or he was coming off. And then in front
of me there was a cell across on the other
end where it was like the watch cell, and on
the opposing on the opposing angle was the officer station.
There was a guy there with dreadlins just completely off
(06:24):
his hand, just just running up, smashing his head on
the on the on the on the screen and blood
piercing out him, just screaming.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
You know.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
And this is the first time where you.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Know, I was.
Speaker 4 (06:38):
Myself.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
I was like, and it hit you, I was. I
was like, and then you were going to have to
you wouldn't you would have been happy to come down
as well.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
I was coming down to it and I was like,
fucking my my body is getting with drawers and obviously
getting pinched, you know there.
Speaker 4 (06:57):
I know I was gonna looking at a very long.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
Time and yes, and like this is the first time
just in the watchhouse and just sitting there, my mind
started going praise and I I want to do I
started to recollecting my like what happened here?
Speaker 4 (07:10):
You know?
Speaker 2 (07:10):
I just how did I get here? Yet?
Speaker 4 (07:12):
How did I get you?
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Like I was you know, you know, you know, came
here in Australia. What school fitness? Yeah got and the
drugs you know, did well and then then every time
coming down with all these traumatic events, taking drugs and
trying to take and the next thing, I'm in jail
and you know this is and you know, my mind
at that time just kind of like fucking like this
(07:33):
is like a typical story you here, like what people here,
They go through this world, make a name, then comes
crashing down, losing everything and then just in there and you.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Had to hit you had to hit rock bottom.
Speaker 4 (07:46):
I had to. Yeah, to be honest, Yeah, there was
either I said, either Dad or do you go to jail?
And that was like the turning You just had the
turning point for me.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
I was the standard of Watchhouse and just recollecting my
thoughts going you.
Speaker 4 (07:59):
Know, like I'm.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
Going to do something different now, you know, I said,
look this if I don't change, now, like this is it.
This is my fascination, like the end of me and
now this is where this is, like this is something
perfect I could like it was so strange and I
didn't really ask for it.
Speaker 4 (08:18):
It just it just happened.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
Just from there, I started to just recollection my thoughts
of the past or just flashbacks and now throughout my
years and when people go through your life when you
go through your life, you have different friendship groups.
Speaker 4 (08:32):
As you go through different friendship groups, you have say
the prominent people.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
In those groups, they used to pull me aside and
they go heys, you know, like they're always saying along
the same lines like you're very talented, you're gifted, you're unique, authentic,
so forth. And from there they said, however, you got
your insecure, you've got issues, and.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Pick some bad crowds along.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
Yeah, decisions, you know.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
And I was stubborn, and and at that time I
was like, I was like fuck, I was like, why
does everyone keep saying this?
Speaker 4 (09:04):
You know what?
Speaker 3 (09:05):
Sense I'm inside here now it's either I changed now
or it So I've made a conscious look I have
however long I mean in jail for I'll dedicate myself
to understand why things happen the way, reverse engineer why
things happen, and try and fix myself because I don't.
Speaker 4 (09:23):
This is it for me?
Speaker 2 (09:23):
And so how did you get through the withdrawal? You
did it? You actually did it?
Speaker 3 (09:28):
So for me personally, like what I what I went through,
and it will be a lot of people can resonate
with me or have a similar case. So for me,
the first three months was horrendous. This body was just
sporadic highs and lows, highs and lows. Because once you
(09:49):
take drugs every day for so long, your body becomes
conditioned to be in that state and your body is
wide to be like that.
Speaker 4 (09:57):
When you stop taking it, this is what you crash.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
And this is why a lot of people end up
nacking themselves to like just end up just body shutting down.
Speaker 4 (10:07):
Is because when your body is one.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
In a condition a certain way for taking drugs for
so long, does on straight cold turkey, Yeah, your body
just shuts like it just shuts down and he goes crazy.
And and this is why a lot of people when
they say I just get off the drugs and get
off the drugs, it will come down to that person
holding you've been taking drugs what certain drugs, And from
(10:31):
there you realize and you have to actually wind them down,
like you can't. You have to win them off, and
you have there like and during this process and this
is where because I've been through it, is when you're
coming down, coming off your mind, you're so you're so
literally so vulnerable and anything that anyone that says to
you or any remarks or anything like that, you take
it to heart.
Speaker 4 (10:49):
It really hits you on another scale, seves.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
So one thing I can say, when someone's coming off
the drugs or anyone doing so, just be mindful if
you see someone do that, be careful what you say.
Speaker 4 (10:59):
To or do certain things, because.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
Because when they're going through that mental decline of the
depression period coming off, they're very vulnerable.
Speaker 4 (11:10):
And you're the same, your man, you're an absolute fuck
with you know, the drugs and so forth.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
And I can understand both sides, but when the person's
receiving that, when they're coming off and of the drugs,
it's just it really hits them.
Speaker 4 (11:22):
And this is where you're you just just spile down,
just keep going.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Down physically physically. What happened to your body as you
were coming off cold Turkey?
Speaker 3 (11:33):
So cold turkey, So the motions eyes the low, there
was no baseline. It was straight up high down. This
just like just spike.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Them down, up and down, up and down your anxious.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
So your mind is gone ten thousand miles an hours,
because that's how you know, during that press, it's gets
conditioned to be like that, did.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
You did you eat? Did you sleep? No?
Speaker 4 (11:56):
Good?
Speaker 3 (11:56):
I've had to insomnia, so I couldn't sleep for years
and oh my god thing as you mentioned, Yeah, but
I got sleep up here as well.
Speaker 4 (12:04):
So I had like breathing issues as a kid from
twenty sixteen.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
I have to sleep with a sleep apparatus and yeah,
and that was the first time I should understood what
sleep was and for me to like even with the
sleep apparatus kind of sleep, I couldn't sleep. My mind
was just why, yeah, why my body was chancing up
like yeah, So like people think like it's easy to
come off, but you've got like a psychological dependence where
(12:30):
your mind wants it, and then you've got a body
where your body physically needs it, and you know it's
gone through to draw your emotions.
Speaker 4 (12:37):
Everything is going crazy and your body is craving it.
You know.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
There's one where I'll give you a perfect example where
that was the first time where I got, I mean,
I got addicted to something. Was this is during back.
It was two thousand and eighteen where I split with
my partner and I couldn't sleep, and like the next
three months, I got my hands on Xanax and I
was taking Xanax tablets knocked out and without even realizing
(13:02):
my body becomes sort of becoming dependent on it. And
and during this price, I went like I stopped and
this is like I remember this as clear as day.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
Just I said I'll stop taking this.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
And the next two days I just couldn't sleep and
I was just like what it was just going nuts
and made my fingers. My mind was like my mom
was tired, but it was like okay, okay, he wasn't
craving anything, but my body was just shaving.
Speaker 4 (13:25):
And I was like, the fuck's going on that ax?
Speaker 3 (13:28):
And I went and told saw a doctor and and
I had explained I don't have what the fuck's going
on with me?
Speaker 4 (13:33):
And you know, what did you? What have you done
that's different?
Speaker 3 (13:37):
And he goes, oh, I stopped taking xanax and.
Speaker 4 (13:41):
He goes xanax. He goes yeah, he goes, you stop
telling what just called it? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (13:48):
He goes, you know that's equivalent to coming off heroin.
And I looked at him and he goes, no, you shouldn't.
I'm like, and I went sit there and I'm like,
this is this is strange. So this is this is
this is another form of addiction people don't understand. Is
like my mind, I can look at it and not
take it, but my body was like all the withdrawals.
So this is where it comes out with drugs as well.
(14:08):
People don't realize like there's like two different there's like
two different addiction factors where your mind can be addicted
to something or your body or both. And yeah, I
was full on like my body. I would say, I'll
come back to inside.
Speaker 4 (14:21):
What took me? This is realistically three months too.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
In jail, it took you three months.
Speaker 4 (14:28):
Sort of can't like to sort.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Of come down, calm down a bit.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
And then after that six another three months after that,
so six months to sort of sort of stabilize a bit.
So it wasn't so jumping.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
You were leveling out about There's a long time to
come off the drug, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
So anyone that's watching this, if you're taking like like
heavy drugs for a long period of time, it's don't
be disheartened. And also this is for the people who
try not understand that they've got friends of family and.
Speaker 4 (14:59):
Don't taken heavy drugs for a long period of time.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
To just bear in mind is the fact that when
they're coming off with they're very, very like you know,
they're very fragile and their mind's going fucking absolutely nuts.
And this is three months so that they're going to
so that people need to understand. This is three months
of them trying to do that, and then another third
three months is sort of sales. Is six months where
(15:21):
you get to look after them. It's definitely tough road.
And wow, I can understand why most people would not
don't want to borrow. Borrow you like is because you're
using and then you're coming off and you're trying to
fix yourself and you're going like this, and you know
that you've got friends and family or whoever.
Speaker 4 (15:38):
I just they to support you.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
But it gets really extremely draining like for them, and
it's really hard for them attack And that's what sort.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Of people think, you know, And I think Harns, you
would be the perfect person to help anyone who is
you know, who is saying I really want to be
off this stuff, because you understand because a lot of
the doctors and that they don't know what to do.
They don't know what to do with all these people
addicted to the drugs. They say, I want to get off,
(16:07):
but they don't know what to do and how to.
Speaker 4 (16:10):
You know, there's all these.
Speaker 5 (16:12):
Rehab centers and they go into rehab and then they
come out, and then they get back to their friends,
and then they get it again and then then yes,
it's really hard to know with the system right now,
what do they do with everyone?
Speaker 3 (16:24):
They're so really I agree now it's it's definitely it's
an interesting take.
Speaker 4 (16:28):
So, I mean, you've done it.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
You're your living proof, like you've completely turned your life around.
You look amazing, You're so fit, you're so healthy. Is
to my listeners if you you know, when you see
this episode, you'll see a photo of hearts. He's so
fit and he's a picture of health. But and you've
been able to do it, so you can do it.
There are people that get off ius, So anyone who's listening,
(16:51):
you can do it. But you're going to need a
lot of support and you're going to need professional help. Harns,
you did it because you were locked up and you
have a strong mind and you just had no choice. Yes,
you had no choice, but you know you hear stories
hands even get drugs in jail. But can you like
you didn't you just went you just went right enough
(17:13):
this stuff I saw all your writings of Actually, everyone
is listening. I've seen incredible writings that Hans did in jail.
He sat and he wrote, and he wrote and he
wrote and he wrote and he wrote. So you busied
your mind that way. Incredible. I've never seen I'm talking
like books and books and books and books. Hans just wrote,
(17:35):
like back at school when we used to write lines,
I must not talk in school, Hans wrote like I'm
talking like, I've never seen anything like it, because he
was focused. It was focused on you know, it was
was like writing lines. Wasn't it your books that you did, Yes, yes,
find out the line like it was like you were
(17:56):
willing yourself to be focused and clean and reformed. Incredible.
It's an incredible story. And I know I know why now,
back when I think back at school where I was
sat and made right lines, you have to do one
hundred lines. I will not talk. You're telling your you're
(18:19):
giving yourself affirmations to your brain.
Speaker 4 (18:21):
Yes, you're pretty much brainwashing.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Brain washing, you brainwashed yourself. Basically, it's an incredible story.
Arms and I you know, I don't understand. I mean,
I don't understand, but it's it's an absolute problem. The
problem massive problem.
Speaker 4 (18:41):
It's absolutely in.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
What would you say to say someone who's young and
that's listening youth and they're they're out in the world,
partying and they see it come up in a social situation,
What wisdom would you say to them?
Speaker 4 (19:00):
What wisdom I can say to them?
Speaker 2 (19:01):
All not even try, don't even think about it.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
I'm going to try and think of a different approach
because normally people say similar line. So it's one thing
that people need to understand is the fact that it's
common knowledge.
Speaker 4 (19:16):
Now, it's outdown the street. It's more than ever. Line's
out there, and it's more accessible easily. It's all there,
and it's it's even cheaper now this day and age.
And the fact that back in my time.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
Though those where there's only a small group, and now
it's like it's almost like a normal thing now that
it's like it's like a normal thing.
Speaker 4 (19:33):
And what I can say if if you come across
it and you're a young child.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
You know, young version, I can I can sit here
and explain, don't do it, and so forth, but just
have a think about when you see it. You know,
if you can say, you know, that's fantastic, but just
you need to look at it, and you have to
actually very much. You can brainwash yourself to attach so
much pain to that so I cannot do this. Reason
(19:59):
why it is because is I've seen my friends or family,
I've seen people on the internet and movies and spoil down.
And that's the one thing I'd say is you have.
Speaker 4 (20:08):
To actually actively massively just not choose not to do
and knowing the fact that you have to do a
bit of like you can say like future sight visualizing.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
If I do this now and within a number of years,
this is what's going to be me where you're with
no teeth in jail and do whatever it is to
what it takes.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Yes, so Hans with the governments at the moment, it's
a lot in the breasts and stuff some governments, you know,
like going to say festivals or whatever. Back in my
day when I lived in London or whatever, it was
like you know, ecstasy everywhere. They were like five quid
or whatever. So do you think it's a I mean,
(20:50):
I actually do, But do you think it's a good
idea to have kill testing at you know, like at
festivals and things where where out you know, there has
been lots of festivals where people can go and get
a pill tested and check whats you're taking. Yes, I
agree with that both the youth they're going to try
(21:11):
some of the youth.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
By one hundred percent agree even if as far as
goes in the nightlife scene, they should have a store.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
They should have okay, pill testing.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
Why is because the drugs out there this day and
age is they put everything in it now so like
it's not when they sell pills, I say it's as pills, but.
Speaker 4 (21:32):
Heaps of stuff.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
And one of the common ingredients people don't realize they
put ice in pills and coke what so for why
is because a grand if you put that one point
one of a grand of ice in a pill in
a pill, or cocaine man or like not even that
small amounts with a pill like you obviously put a
(21:54):
lot small amounts of obviously the whatever they sull for
it and and it gives you that awake and alert
and so times because when you take certain drugs, they
do certain different things. And with ice, it gives you energy,
it gives you that euphoria, gets you moving, gets in
that and that's what they put in there.
Speaker 4 (22:11):
Because people who take like you know, for instance, with cocaine.
Speaker 3 (22:13):
When you have proper cocaine, it's not like it's like
a stimming You get up and go and you just
feel good, happy and just real chatty. And with cocaine
a day and age is when you take it, you
get like anxiety and you're freaking rushing around and people
start thinking this is the cocaine.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
So it's like being laced with something.
Speaker 4 (22:31):
Lace, it's laced with ice, and people conception between having So.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
When people have proper cocaine, this is this isn't okay,
Well this is because I feel good, but I just
I just don't feel like getting up and charging around
well fucking because there's no it's not been put like
lace into ice or a form of stimulant in it.
Speaker 4 (22:51):
So this is the way that's.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Good to advise. That's good advice too. You don't really
know what you're getting.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
You don't know and at the end of the day,
like every single deal, everyone's all going to say I
have the best stuff. There's nothing this is it is
one hundred percent whatever the drugs is selling and you
know from there. And the thing is with these dealers,
a lot of them they just take word from the
person they get it off.
Speaker 4 (23:17):
And that's what happens.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
It's just they just go down and chain or obviously
that person decides to do something dirty, fair enough, but
that this is what happens, and this is where things
go down here.
Speaker 4 (23:26):
This is where od's happen.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
Well, people start having bad reactions to certain drugs, and yeah,
this is one thing I would highly recommend is definitely a.
Speaker 4 (23:38):
Form of safe testing somewhere.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
YEA not love seeing vessels all that, just because at
the end of the day, drugs is always going to
be out there.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
And that's good. That can potentially save lives.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
And you know, it's it's a harsh reality where you
can tie everything you want to try and stop it,
but it's going it's always going to be there.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
And are you so are you so glad you're pasted
all that now? Hans, I'm so glad I'm pastor I'm
past that with wisdom, I know that their youth will
always want to have a good time and try things.
But are you glad you're pasted all that now?
Speaker 3 (24:14):
You know? And one thing I could say is past
it's to be I feel like it's like it's just
felt like it was a big bad dream someone.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Else's life, but it's not it's your life. And and
you're so honest, and it's you're lucky to be here, Hans. Honestly,
you are. You are incredible, you are honest, you are happy.
You're always happy to try and help someone. If you
hear that there's someone that's addicted to ICE, feel like
(24:44):
I can, I can talk to them, I can get
through to them. You're you know, I think you definitely
have a bit of a life calling to help others.
I know you've got some new things coming, which hopefully
down the track, we've going to do another podcast on
becau as I would love to reveal what's ahead for hearts.
(25:04):
But you know, I already know you're helping youth. You
help as much as you can. You've got so much
to give. And I really admire you for the hands
because I don't I've never had anyone I can ask
about ICE, but I have friends that have family members
really in the groups of ICE and have been for
(25:25):
a very long time. And and it's it's I can
count three four people on my hand now, and that's
sad that I know, you know personally family members that
are being affected, you know, and the people that are
in their fifties and still on it, still on it.
(25:48):
It's never been able to get off it. Yeah, you know,
it's awful. It's awful. And you know, I see people
like you know, just around when I'm around, and I
straight away recognize it. I'm like, oh gosh, they're on ie,
you know what. Like some people probably wouldn't recognize it,
but I do because I know the science, and you
(26:10):
do because you've live been there, so you know more
than anyone. Yeah, but yeah, I think I think you know,
you did it, so anyone can do it. I think
if they've got the total wheel to do it, they
can get off the drug. But as you said, it
(26:31):
took what six months.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
Of six months to stabilize. But I would say to
fully Pully, I would say recovered. I'm felt comfortable. I
would say eighteen months or.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Twelve you weren't recovered to eighteen months?
Speaker 3 (26:45):
Really eighteen months, so six months the way I started
to stabilizable. And then I'd say a year and a half,
so another twelve months on top of that, whereas I
felt like myself was back to like a good baseline
and I could feel myself wow, And that was that's like,
this is the heart of real out of anyone musing drugs,
and that is it's not simple as just coming off
(27:05):
and off you go like your body was being in
certain a certain kindition, certain states. So it takes that
period of time for it to calm down and come
back to a baseline.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
And where would you advise if anyone's listening, a family
is listening and they want to hear this podcast because
of their son, daughter or whatever. Where because it's very hard.
It's so hard for parents. I'm sure it was hard
for your mum. Where where do you suggest The first
(27:35):
point of call is to go for help.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
Help, So if I was in that position, because with me,
I went to jail, so I was the first foremost
you need to persons whoever was using is to accept
that you have an issue.
Speaker 4 (27:51):
I wouldn't say like the word that.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
When they use the word addiction, you sound it's like
a to me person, it sounds like an ugly word
and a lot of you get little like sort of
like beginning denial about it, you know, use it that
will I have an issue where I'm using way too
much and it's affecting me to the point where I
can function I'm doing breaking end tos or whatever you
may be doing your family, And this is where you
(28:14):
need to think about going fuck. Well, for me to
come off how much am I take? I need to
wind down slowly and accept the fact that this is
going to be a very long road. And you know
most people, a lot of people here that take months
to years to recover from this. When you know that
when you wind down, and this is where you can say,
seek for professional help, but at the same time be
(28:36):
mindful as well, like people will come and help you
for sure one hundred percent, but also when you're going
through the withdrawals.
Speaker 4 (28:43):
And that it is very fulling and very intensive to
try your best to.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
Like learn to vent and stuff, but you can't make
sure you don't go over the top because if you
go over the top, you're scared your friends and family
and all the helpers away as well. And one thing
I can say is at the end of the day,
no one is really going to say and you You've
got people that will come and support you. But so
you have to become your own hero of your own journey.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
And you do yourself in Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
So, like the number one fact is what I learned
was with mine is a couple of months, and you
are going to go through hell.
Speaker 4 (29:19):
It is hell, and that's a fact. And when you're
having these each day, you'll have a good day, another
day a bad day. It's going to and vice versa.
It's going to be up and down, up and down
like crazy.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
Just remind yourself each day, each even each moment, to
remind yourself that this is part of the journey. This
is part of the pain, this is part of the
growing experience, This is part of the transformation. And look
at you know whatever whatever, do things that really gets
you go and inspires you. So for me, like I
was reading a lot of personal development, self development books,
(29:52):
looking at you know, inspiration. I was watching you know,
just superhero high fashion superheroes, so I was watched superhero movies.
Speaker 4 (29:58):
Going through that and doing anything and listen.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
One amazing token mechanism for me was listening to a
lot of music. Like music was a very therapeutic to
learn then.
Speaker 4 (30:12):
That also what else I use.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
Going for walks, you know, just going in nature, are
connecting and this is where with you as an individual,
if you're coming off this is the probably the hardest
one of the hardest things when you when you come
when you're actually off, is the fact that you went
from using every day feeling this high and becomes a
new baseline to nothing completely still. So you from being
(30:37):
up here, you come back down here right when you're
down here. This is one thing I had to learn
was it's the thing what you will know, it's called boredom.
Of what happens is you went from feeling good all
the time, applighs and lows and you know, when you're
in that scene, you see drama and that becomes you.
(31:01):
And then when you pull yourself, this is the fact
that it's not just to coming off when you put
yourself out of that environment. So you went from seeing
doing breaking it, whatever it is, doing this to violence, druggle.
Speaker 4 (31:11):
Whatever it is, to pour.
Speaker 3 (31:12):
On yourself and your you're just sitting in your own
space and you're coming off and you get bored. And
this is the probably the hardest thing for all people
that laps is the fact that this is what this
is reality. You're on a baseline and when you've been
using drugs for so long, it's me personally, I said,
well this this fucking sucks, man. You know, I'll give
(31:36):
you an example, like for me coming out of jail
and coming clean and stuff and just come really adjusting
back to side. It was very full on. That's the
story I can explain later on. And just I remember
walking with my friend. This is a Sunday afternoon, Admiral
lull bar, like just just people and this is this
is a beautiful somehow afternoon like kids and family running
(31:57):
around like a like a good amazing day like for
normal activities, normal people.
Speaker 4 (32:03):
And I was walking with him and I was like, fuck,
I's just like is this what? This is what? This
is what normal people do?
Speaker 2 (32:11):
Normal?
Speaker 4 (32:12):
There's normal. He goes because because yeah, that was like
this is yeah, this is what everyone. I'm like, well,
well this this is fucking this, this is this is ship.
This is fucking boring man.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
He turns around and goes go boring like yeah, man,
just like this is reality.
Speaker 4 (32:31):
Like I said, this is reality. That's nothing wrong.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
I'm just like I went from in the drug worlds
and drugs and violence, and I was seeing one of.
Speaker 4 (32:41):
In jail coming off and you know, seeing all this
all these things and scenes and what comes with it.
Speaker 3 (32:48):
Two now just walking out here, I fund out how
to do the kids and beings running around and this
is like my conditioning and well my body was conditioned
to be in that state to see those things.
Speaker 4 (33:01):
And this is where most everyone, this is what anyone
that's used everyone that used drugs that will all know.
Speaker 3 (33:07):
This is the fact that being that on that sort
of state of mind for so period and then come
back to normality, it actually is boring.
Speaker 4 (33:14):
And this is where very important.
Speaker 3 (33:18):
Like most people don't talk about is except the fact
that this is what happens, and you need to.
Speaker 4 (33:25):
Learn to like you do.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
You have different forms that with to do a lot
of meditation and mindfulness and different things, but you're going
to retrain your mind. So it's basically like you get
up like your mind, like you're going to train your
mind again to go this is normality and this is awesome,
Like this is great contense. So for me, I was like,
well months, I'm like turning my mind and you know
(33:50):
this is I would say, oh, honestly, so this has
been coming out of jail and nine months to like
fully adjust back to society.
Speaker 4 (33:57):
Like fully integration process is just on and just done.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
Now I love this, Like me sitting here now like
talking to you, I love it. Like my old version
of me will be like what do you what do
you fucking doing?
Speaker 4 (34:15):
Man? You wouldn't not inspiratual talk and whatever.
Speaker 3 (34:18):
It is not hard to go want and go like
this is what when you get that star in your mind,
go just just call up your dealer.
Speaker 4 (34:27):
You can go to that you know drugs, Say you've
got some drugs.
Speaker 3 (34:30):
Just go there and just have a hit and chill
out the mate, and then you can do things.
Speaker 4 (34:35):
And that's like, I'm.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
So glad you're back to a normal life. I love
my normal life. I couldn't actually think of anything worse,
you know, like it must be horrific and you've done
it with so much grit and determination. Do you have
like a favorite saying or anything, like is there a
(35:02):
life mantra or motto that got you through all this?
Like you've had so many writings. Is there something that
like a little saying that you think, Oh, that's that's
my saying that got me through.
Speaker 4 (35:15):
My saying is no one is going to save you.
You have to become your own authentic hero.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
Well, I love it, I love it. Song What about
a song? What about if there's a song that describes
harms what would it be or if any of your
friends or would say, oh, that song is harms.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
Actually I do love my I do with me my
phone one of my best for I love enjoying expressing
myself and it's a great mechanism through like dancing and music.
So my favorite, like my song is what I always
tay that on if I really want to pop myself
up to get some fine or really break it down,
(36:00):
it's Destination Calber. It's what is it called, Alex Guido
Destination Calbery?
Speaker 2 (36:10):
What?
Speaker 4 (36:11):
Sorry, it's actually Destination I know him.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Oh that how does that go? Destination? I know it?
Oh yeah, yeah yeah. And it's like a dad song.
Oh my god, that is so you. When I think
of you, when I think of Hans I see him
sometimes on some social media. When I think of Hanns,
(36:37):
I think everyone was come for fighting. You should say
him that cat was fast and he's like, you know,
does sort of like kickboxing and whatever. He's So that's
my song for you.
Speaker 4 (36:52):
I know you've got your song.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
I've got my song for you because you have transformed
yourself and it's an absolute honored to have you agree,
and I would like to invite you back because I
know you've got some news coming your new adventure and
business down the track, so I want to follow you
up arms because I think it's a great story. You've
(37:17):
gone from basically junkie drug dealer coming off drugs, transforming
yourself to basically a fitness fitness freak. You are looking
at you, you know, maybe maybe for pure grit, I
have to put a photo of parts in his in
his dick toms or something.
Speaker 4 (37:38):
So I'm just joking.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
Just show that you have transformed yourself, like you look
like a picture of health, and I can imagine how
you looked as a junkie and it's not how you
look at incredible.
Speaker 4 (37:54):
You'd be surprised, like just you know, having that you
become a junk you lose like you.
Speaker 3 (37:59):
Just tip whether away. And this is one thing I do,
Like I say, is anyone that's with it a way
lose a lot of weight and stuff. It's you come
on off if you can pull it off. One of
the best forms of replacing your habit is going to
the gym and training, having eating a healthy life size exercise. Yeah,
(38:19):
and that it becomes a great form of like you
see yourself physically changing. You feel fit and healthy, active,
you have a lot of energy, and it's a great,
good replacement. So definitely one thing I'll highly advocate is
going to the gym and training or find something that's
a physical exercise. You know, it's this is one of
the tough journeys. Once you recovered, fully recovered, you have
(38:42):
to actually replace with other hobbies otherwise it will just
be just amount of time for you've.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
Fallen back into its Thank you so much for being
on pure great and I will follow you up so
I will hunt you down again. And I thank you
for all your honesty because it's you know, it's not
easy to I think it's fantastic you are completely recovered,
(39:07):
because people that aren't recovered won't admit what where they've
been and where there you have And I if I
had a hat, I take my hat off to your arms,
and I'm your biggest cheerleader because I'm so proud of you,
and it's it's been great that I've got to meet
you and thank you for talking about drugs and ice
(39:30):
and you know, it's a big issue and it's a
topical issue too with a lot of people, and a
lot of people don't understand and you do, and you've
got sympathy. I know you have sympathy for people who
are in the grips of it at the moment.
Speaker 4 (39:45):
Yes, I'd help the number of people and I do
what I can as well.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
Thank you, Hans, Thank you for being on Pure Grit.
Speaker 4 (39:52):
Thank you so much. And I love you. Thank you.
I love your questions and everything. It's so good. Thank
you so much.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
Everyone was gone fighting. Thank you for coming on.
Speaker 4 (40:06):
Maybe you know in the YouTube I do come back on.
Maybe we should have that as to intro.
Speaker 2 (40:16):
Thank you Han, thanks for coming on.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
Well there you go. Thanks for listening to Pure Grit
with Paula McGrath. Now the webcoud has been a very
busy boy. You can now visit the website pure Grit
dot com dot au, search Pure Group podcast on Facebook
and Instagram for the fun behind the scenes stuff. And
I was wondering why paul had started wearing makeup. It
turns out all the chats are now on YouTube as well,
so make sure you give that a subscribe.
Welcome to Pure Grit with Paula McGrath. If you search
the word grit, you'd see that it means to have courage,
show strength of character, passion, and perseverance. Throughout the series,
paul chat to guess from all walks of life who
have shown pure grit to get to where they are now. Paula, Paula, Yeah, look,
(00:26):
he looks fine. I've done the intro, so ready for
you to talk now? Yeah, you do your talking things.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Welcome back to Pure Grit. We continue on now with
part two of Hans Gustafson. This part of the podcast
we discuss how Han's got clean off ice and what
happened because he ends up going to jail. Enjoy part two.
You then you stayed on it for like two years,
but then how did you get off?
Speaker 3 (00:56):
So during this process as this few years is when
I was in the drug world, you know, I was
you became like a bit of figure down when I
was just you know, doing pretty well, and from there
it was feeding my habit and stuff. And during that
two year period was on just where everything started like
went downhill. So I had had a number of I
had great number of things. Are a few businesses going
(01:19):
so forth. Then from there I just went through like
one secret of events, like a traumatic event, and this
is where things once started spiraling down for me. And
this is what I started using, started using more and
more and more of it. So given like one example,
so one event like this is back in was a
twenty eighteen to a New Year's Eve to twenty nineteen,
and I was at a big boake festival and from
(01:43):
there I was, you know, was you know, I was
seeing a girl there at the time, and I said
I had to go back just before midnight because a day.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
After I had to fight in New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
And during this process, I was driving home and this
is like thirty minutes before midnight.
Speaker 4 (01:57):
I was driving and this.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Is just before the Gonfield's exits.
Speaker 4 (02:02):
So on the highway and I went and.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
You know, at that time, as I was driving, I
see something, you know, side of the bushes, and the
next thing I know, this person just jumps in front
of me like like Hundrek's nour.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
There, Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
And you know that that process there was just I
saw it jumping can around with that smashed and born
you know what up in that sequence, a person decided
to take his own life and and use me as
a vessel.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
And and this is.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Like that's that was like one event and that's where
things went super downhill for me where when I looked at.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
It, someone jumped in front of your car.
Speaker 4 (02:45):
Yes, this isn't two thous that end.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
And I had another one as well as twenty sixteen
as well, like I do on a motorbike, was on
dream driving and he came into my lane when he
was on the other side came and these are like
as where I thought, like, it doesn't affect you, but
at that time you just sort of just go I
sort of like didn't care anymore, Like I, well, I'm
(03:08):
seeing that this is what life's about, and funker, I.
Speaker 4 (03:11):
Ain't give a fuck anymore.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
And yes, this is where we've got a point where
I was in a relationship for like four and a
half years and split from there, I experienced having like
description drugs with draws for the first time, and from
there having these and they went to other like sequence
of events and once another to the point where you
can say that one of these events was like, oh,
(03:33):
that was like a Monday afternoon, Tuesday night, spoaking.
Speaker 4 (03:39):
Friday morning and so forth.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
And this is these events where like these events stopped
so just wide into me. And this is where I
started just using more and more and I went from
having like a lot of things and traveled the world.
I had nothing like no issues and then to spoiled
down massively went through all these keeps to these like
traumatic events to the point where this is like it
(04:02):
was a twenty twenty so during that period where I
decided to there's a four separate occasions I decided to
like take my own life and for separate occasions and
and ya, I'm so fortunate, like something came in the
way that stopped from doing it. And there and this
is this and this is where there interested fart began
(04:24):
when it came to twenty twenty one where I get
done for for like a commercial twenty of one killer
method vitamine.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
And oh so you got nicked by the cops. Yes,
and this would have been hot potentially what has saved
you han'ts isn't it? So?
Speaker 3 (04:46):
All honestly, it was either going to jail or either
one of those two. I agree, like that's there's no
way around it. And when I got done, man, that
really like obviously fucking sucks.
Speaker 4 (04:59):
So yeah, and I just.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
Talking about I was standing this is I was up
up north of rock Campton, so this is like very horrific.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
I was just that's when you got you got, you
got caught in.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
I was up north in rock Campton, yes, and just
from there it just felt like I remember just standing
in the in the wash in just in the watchhouse.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
And so you would have been making a lot of
money too, you would have been flying high.
Speaker 4 (05:26):
You see. I was on just on top of the world.
Had everything you.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Were dealing, but were you're taking.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
I was, I was using you, We're using it, okay.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
And what it is interesting is where when you start
taking a point and when you're using every day, you
got the stage where the talents, you build a talents
real quick to it. I start using law and war
and just from there just this is what the most
This is where I'm explaining how where things started transforming
for me is the fact that standing in this in
the watchhouse, just just look the right hand side and
(06:01):
the cell next to me, there was there was a
guy on the floor just just shaking, and so he
was or he was coming off. And then in front
of me there was a cell across on the other
end where it was like the watch cell, and on
the opposing on the opposing angle was the officer station.
There was a guy there with dreadlins just completely off
(06:24):
his hand, just just running up, smashing his head on
the on the on the on the screen and blood
piercing out him, just screaming.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
You know.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
And this is the first time where you.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Know, I was.
Speaker 4 (06:38):
Myself.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
I was like, and it hit you, I was. I
was like, and then you were going to have to
you wouldn't you would have been happy to come down
as well.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
I was coming down to it and I was like,
fucking my my body is getting with drawers and obviously
getting pinched, you know there.
Speaker 4 (06:57):
I know I was gonna looking at a very long.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
Time and yes, and like this is the first time
just in the watchhouse and just sitting there, my mind
started going praise and I I want to do I
started to recollecting my like what happened here?
Speaker 4 (07:10):
You know?
Speaker 2 (07:10):
I just how did I get here? Yet?
Speaker 4 (07:12):
How did I get you?
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Like I was you know, you know, you know, came
here in Australia. What school fitness? Yeah got and the
drugs you know, did well and then then every time
coming down with all these traumatic events, taking drugs and
trying to take and the next thing, I'm in jail
and you know this is and you know, my mind
at that time just kind of like fucking like this
(07:33):
is like a typical story you here, like what people here,
They go through this world, make a name, then comes
crashing down, losing everything and then just in there and you.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Had to hit you had to hit rock bottom.
Speaker 4 (07:46):
I had to. Yeah, to be honest, Yeah, there was
either I said, either Dad or do you go to jail?
And that was like the turning You just had the
turning point for me.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
I was the standard of Watchhouse and just recollecting my
thoughts going you.
Speaker 4 (07:59):
Know, like I'm.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
Going to do something different now, you know, I said,
look this if I don't change, now, like this is it.
This is my fascination, like the end of me and
now this is where this is, like this is something
perfect I could like it was so strange and I
didn't really ask for it.
Speaker 4 (08:18):
It just it just happened.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
Just from there, I started to just recollection my thoughts
of the past or just flashbacks and now throughout my
years and when people go through your life when you
go through your life, you have different friendship groups.
Speaker 4 (08:32):
As you go through different friendship groups, you have say
the prominent people.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
In those groups, they used to pull me aside and
they go heys, you know, like they're always saying along
the same lines like you're very talented, you're gifted, you're unique, authentic,
so forth. And from there they said, however, you got
your insecure, you've got issues, and.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Pick some bad crowds along.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
Yeah, decisions, you know.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
And I was stubborn, and and at that time I
was like, I was like fuck, I was like, why
does everyone keep saying this?
Speaker 4 (09:04):
You know what?
Speaker 3 (09:05):
Sense I'm inside here now it's either I changed now
or it So I've made a conscious look I have
however long I mean in jail for I'll dedicate myself
to understand why things happen the way, reverse engineer why
things happen, and try and fix myself because I don't.
Speaker 4 (09:23):
This is it for me?
Speaker 2 (09:23):
And so how did you get through the withdrawal? You
did it? You actually did it?
Speaker 3 (09:28):
So for me personally, like what I what I went through,
and it will be a lot of people can resonate
with me or have a similar case. So for me,
the first three months was horrendous. This body was just
sporadic highs and lows, highs and lows. Because once you
(09:49):
take drugs every day for so long, your body becomes
conditioned to be in that state and your body is
wide to be like that.
Speaker 4 (09:57):
When you stop taking it, this is what you crash.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
And this is why a lot of people end up
nacking themselves to like just end up just body shutting down.
Speaker 4 (10:07):
Is because when your body is one.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
In a condition a certain way for taking drugs for
so long, does on straight cold turkey, Yeah, your body
just shuts like it just shuts down and he goes crazy.
And and this is why a lot of people when
they say I just get off the drugs and get
off the drugs, it will come down to that person
holding you've been taking drugs what certain drugs, And from
(10:31):
there you realize and you have to actually wind them down,
like you can't. You have to win them off, and
you have there like and during this process and this
is where because I've been through it, is when you're
coming down, coming off your mind, you're so you're so
literally so vulnerable and anything that anyone that says to
you or any remarks or anything like that, you take
it to heart.
Speaker 4 (10:49):
It really hits you on another scale, seves.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
So one thing I can say, when someone's coming off
the drugs or anyone doing so, just be mindful if
you see someone do that, be careful what you say.
Speaker 4 (10:59):
To or do certain things, because.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
Because when they're going through that mental decline of the
depression period coming off, they're very vulnerable.
Speaker 4 (11:10):
And you're the same, your man, you're an absolute fuck
with you know, the drugs and so forth.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
And I can understand both sides, but when the person's
receiving that, when they're coming off and of the drugs,
it's just it really hits them.
Speaker 4 (11:22):
And this is where you're you just just spile down,
just keep going.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Down physically physically. What happened to your body as you
were coming off cold Turkey?
Speaker 3 (11:33):
So cold turkey, So the motions eyes the low, there
was no baseline. It was straight up high down. This
just like just spike.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Them down, up and down, up and down your anxious.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
So your mind is gone ten thousand miles an hours,
because that's how you know, during that press, it's gets
conditioned to be like that, did.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
You did you eat? Did you sleep? No?
Speaker 4 (11:56):
Good?
Speaker 3 (11:56):
I've had to insomnia, so I couldn't sleep for years
and oh my god thing as you mentioned, Yeah, but
I got sleep up here as well.
Speaker 4 (12:04):
So I had like breathing issues as a kid from
twenty sixteen.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
I have to sleep with a sleep apparatus and yeah,
and that was the first time I should understood what
sleep was and for me to like even with the
sleep apparatus kind of sleep, I couldn't sleep. My mind
was just why, yeah, why my body was chancing up
like yeah, So like people think like it's easy to
come off, but you've got like a psychological dependence where
(12:30):
your mind wants it, and then you've got a body
where your body physically needs it, and you know it's
gone through to draw your emotions.
Speaker 4 (12:37):
Everything is going crazy and your body is craving it.
You know.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
There's one where I'll give you a perfect example where
that was the first time where I got, I mean,
I got addicted to something. Was this is during back.
It was two thousand and eighteen where I split with
my partner and I couldn't sleep, and like the next
three months, I got my hands on Xanax and I
was taking Xanax tablets knocked out and without even realizing
(13:02):
my body becomes sort of becoming dependent on it. And
and during this price, I went like I stopped and
this is like I remember this as clear as day.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
Just I said I'll stop taking this.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
And the next two days I just couldn't sleep and
I was just like what it was just going nuts
and made my fingers. My mind was like my mom
was tired, but it was like okay, okay, he wasn't
craving anything, but my body was just shaving.
Speaker 4 (13:25):
And I was like, the fuck's going on that ax?
Speaker 3 (13:28):
And I went and told saw a doctor and and
I had explained I don't have what the fuck's going
on with me?
Speaker 4 (13:33):
And you know, what did you? What have you done
that's different?
Speaker 3 (13:37):
And he goes, oh, I stopped taking xanax and.
Speaker 4 (13:41):
He goes xanax. He goes yeah, he goes, you stop
telling what just called it? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (13:48):
He goes, you know that's equivalent to coming off heroin.
And I looked at him and he goes, no, you shouldn't.
I'm like, and I went sit there and I'm like,
this is this is strange. So this is this is
this is another form of addiction people don't understand. Is
like my mind, I can look at it and not
take it, but my body was like all the withdrawals.
So this is where it comes out with drugs as well.
(14:08):
People don't realize like there's like two different there's like
two different addiction factors where your mind can be addicted
to something or your body or both. And yeah, I
was full on like my body. I would say, I'll
come back to inside.
Speaker 4 (14:21):
What took me? This is realistically three months too.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
In jail, it took you three months.
Speaker 4 (14:28):
Sort of can't like to sort.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Of come down, calm down a bit.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
And then after that six another three months after that,
so six months to sort of sort of stabilize a bit.
So it wasn't so jumping.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
You were leveling out about There's a long time to
come off the drug, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
So anyone that's watching this, if you're taking like like
heavy drugs for a long period of time, it's don't
be disheartened. And also this is for the people who
try not understand that they've got friends of family and.
Speaker 4 (14:59):
Don't taken heavy drugs for a long period of time.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
To just bear in mind is the fact that when
they're coming off with they're very, very like you know,
they're very fragile and their mind's going fucking absolutely nuts.
And this is three months so that they're going to
so that people need to understand. This is three months
of them trying to do that, and then another third
three months is sort of sales. Is six months where
(15:21):
you get to look after them. It's definitely tough road.
And wow, I can understand why most people would not
don't want to borrow. Borrow you like is because you're
using and then you're coming off and you're trying to
fix yourself and you're going like this, and you know
that you've got friends and family or whoever.
Speaker 4 (15:38):
I just they to support you.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
But it gets really extremely draining like for them, and
it's really hard for them attack And that's what sort.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Of people think, you know, And I think Harns, you
would be the perfect person to help anyone who is
you know, who is saying I really want to be
off this stuff, because you understand because a lot of
the doctors and that they don't know what to do.
They don't know what to do with all these people
addicted to the drugs. They say, I want to get off,
(16:07):
but they don't know what to do and how to.
Speaker 4 (16:10):
You know, there's all these.
Speaker 5 (16:12):
Rehab centers and they go into rehab and then they
come out, and then they get back to their friends,
and then they get it again and then then yes,
it's really hard to know with the system right now,
what do they do with everyone?
Speaker 3 (16:24):
They're so really I agree now it's it's definitely it's
an interesting take.
Speaker 4 (16:28):
So, I mean, you've done it.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
You're your living proof, like you've completely turned your life around.
You look amazing, You're so fit, you're so healthy. Is
to my listeners if you you know, when you see
this episode, you'll see a photo of hearts. He's so
fit and he's a picture of health. But and you've
been able to do it, so you can do it.
There are people that get off ius, So anyone who's listening,
(16:51):
you can do it. But you're going to need a
lot of support and you're going to need professional help. Harns,
you did it because you were locked up and you
have a strong mind and you just had no choice. Yes,
you had no choice, but you know you hear stories
hands even get drugs in jail. But can you like
you didn't you just went you just went right enough
(17:13):
this stuff I saw all your writings of Actually, everyone
is listening. I've seen incredible writings that Hans did in jail.
He sat and he wrote, and he wrote and he
wrote and he wrote and he wrote. So you busied
your mind that way. Incredible. I've never seen I'm talking
like books and books and books and books. Hans just wrote,
(17:35):
like back at school when we used to write lines,
I must not talk in school, Hans wrote like I'm
talking like, I've never seen anything like it, because he
was focused. It was focused on you know, it was
was like writing lines. Wasn't it your books that you did, Yes, yes,
find out the line like it was like you were
(17:56):
willing yourself to be focused and clean and reformed. Incredible.
It's an incredible story. And I know I know why now,
back when I think back at school where I was
sat and made right lines, you have to do one
hundred lines. I will not talk. You're telling your you're
(18:19):
giving yourself affirmations to your brain.
Speaker 4 (18:21):
Yes, you're pretty much brainwashing.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Brain washing, you brainwashed yourself. Basically, it's an incredible story.
Arms and I you know, I don't understand. I mean,
I don't understand, but it's it's an absolute problem. The
problem massive problem.
Speaker 4 (18:41):
It's absolutely in.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
What would you say to say someone who's young and
that's listening youth and they're they're out in the world,
partying and they see it come up in a social situation,
What wisdom would you say to them?
Speaker 4 (19:00):
What wisdom I can say to them?
Speaker 2 (19:01):
All not even try, don't even think about it.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
I'm going to try and think of a different approach
because normally people say similar line. So it's one thing
that people need to understand is the fact that it's
common knowledge.
Speaker 4 (19:16):
Now, it's outdown the street. It's more than ever. Line's
out there, and it's more accessible easily. It's all there,
and it's it's even cheaper now this day and age.
And the fact that back in my time.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
Though those where there's only a small group, and now
it's like it's almost like a normal thing now that
it's like it's like a normal thing.
Speaker 4 (19:33):
And what I can say if if you come across
it and you're a young child.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
You know, young version, I can I can sit here
and explain, don't do it, and so forth, but just
have a think about when you see it. You know,
if you can say, you know, that's fantastic, but just
you need to look at it, and you have to
actually very much. You can brainwash yourself to attach so
much pain to that so I cannot do this. Reason
(19:59):
why it is because is I've seen my friends or family,
I've seen people on the internet and movies and spoil down.
And that's the one thing I'd say is you have.
Speaker 4 (20:08):
To actually actively massively just not choose not to do
and knowing the fact that you have to do a
bit of like you can say like future sight visualizing.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
If I do this now and within a number of years,
this is what's going to be me where you're with
no teeth in jail and do whatever it is to
what it takes.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Yes, so Hans with the governments at the moment, it's
a lot in the breasts and stuff some governments, you know,
like going to say festivals or whatever. Back in my
day when I lived in London or whatever, it was
like you know, ecstasy everywhere. They were like five quid
or whatever. So do you think it's a I mean,
(20:50):
I actually do, But do you think it's a good
idea to have kill testing at you know, like at
festivals and things where where out you know, there has
been lots of festivals where people can go and get
a pill tested and check whats you're taking. Yes, I
agree with that both the youth they're going to try
(21:11):
some of the youth.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
By one hundred percent agree even if as far as
goes in the nightlife scene, they should have a store.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
They should have okay, pill testing.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
Why is because the drugs out there this day and
age is they put everything in it now so like
it's not when they sell pills, I say it's as pills, but.
Speaker 4 (21:32):
Heaps of stuff.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
And one of the common ingredients people don't realize they
put ice in pills and coke what so for why
is because a grand if you put that one point
one of a grand of ice in a pill in
a pill, or cocaine man or like not even that
small amounts with a pill like you obviously put a
(21:54):
lot small amounts of obviously the whatever they sull for
it and and it gives you that awake and alert
and so times because when you take certain drugs, they
do certain different things. And with ice, it gives you energy,
it gives you that euphoria, gets you moving, gets in
that and that's what they put in there.
Speaker 4 (22:11):
Because people who take like you know, for instance, with cocaine.
Speaker 3 (22:13):
When you have proper cocaine, it's not like it's like
a stimming You get up and go and you just
feel good, happy and just real chatty. And with cocaine
a day and age is when you take it, you
get like anxiety and you're freaking rushing around and people
start thinking this is the cocaine.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
So it's like being laced with something.
Speaker 4 (22:31):
Lace, it's laced with ice, and people conception between having So.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
When people have proper cocaine, this is this isn't okay,
Well this is because I feel good, but I just
I just don't feel like getting up and charging around
well fucking because there's no it's not been put like
lace into ice or a form of stimulant in it.
Speaker 4 (22:51):
So this is the way that's.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Good to advise. That's good advice too. You don't really
know what you're getting.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
You don't know and at the end of the day,
like every single deal, everyone's all going to say I
have the best stuff. There's nothing this is it is
one hundred percent whatever the drugs is selling and you
know from there. And the thing is with these dealers,
a lot of them they just take word from the
person they get it off.
Speaker 4 (23:17):
And that's what happens.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
It's just they just go down and chain or obviously
that person decides to do something dirty, fair enough, but
that this is what happens, and this is where things
go down here.
Speaker 4 (23:26):
This is where od's happen.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
Well, people start having bad reactions to certain drugs, and yeah,
this is one thing I would highly recommend is definitely a.
Speaker 4 (23:38):
Form of safe testing somewhere.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
YEA not love seeing vessels all that, just because at
the end of the day, drugs is always going to
be out there.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
And that's good. That can potentially save lives.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
And you know, it's it's a harsh reality where you
can tie everything you want to try and stop it,
but it's going it's always going to be there.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
And are you so are you so glad you're pasted
all that now? Hans, I'm so glad I'm pastor I'm
past that with wisdom, I know that their youth will
always want to have a good time and try things.
But are you glad you're pasted all that now?
Speaker 3 (24:14):
You know? And one thing I could say is past
it's to be I feel like it's like it's just
felt like it was a big bad dream someone.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Else's life, but it's not it's your life. And and
you're so honest, and it's you're lucky to be here, Hans. Honestly,
you are. You are incredible, you are honest, you are happy.
You're always happy to try and help someone. If you
hear that there's someone that's addicted to ICE, feel like
(24:44):
I can, I can talk to them, I can get
through to them. You're you know, I think you definitely
have a bit of a life calling to help others.
I know you've got some new things coming, which hopefully
down the track, we've going to do another podcast on
becau as I would love to reveal what's ahead for hearts.
(25:04):
But you know, I already know you're helping youth. You
help as much as you can. You've got so much
to give. And I really admire you for the hands
because I don't I've never had anyone I can ask
about ICE, but I have friends that have family members
really in the groups of ICE and have been for
(25:25):
a very long time. And and it's it's I can
count three four people on my hand now, and that's
sad that I know, you know personally family members that
are being affected, you know, and the people that are
in their fifties and still on it, still on it.
(25:48):
It's never been able to get off it. Yeah, you know,
it's awful. It's awful. And you know, I see people
like you know, just around when I'm around, and I
straight away recognize it. I'm like, oh gosh, they're on ie,
you know what. Like some people probably wouldn't recognize it,
but I do because I know the science, and you
(26:10):
do because you've live been there, so you know more
than anyone. Yeah, but yeah, I think I think you know,
you did it, so anyone can do it. I think
if they've got the total wheel to do it, they
can get off the drug. But as you said, it
(26:31):
took what six months.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
Of six months to stabilize. But I would say to
fully Pully, I would say recovered. I'm felt comfortable. I
would say eighteen months or.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Twelve you weren't recovered to eighteen months?
Speaker 3 (26:45):
Really eighteen months, so six months the way I started
to stabilizable. And then I'd say a year and a half,
so another twelve months on top of that, whereas I
felt like myself was back to like a good baseline
and I could feel myself wow, And that was that's like,
this is the heart of real out of anyone musing drugs,
and that is it's not simple as just coming off
(27:05):
and off you go like your body was being in
certain a certain kindition, certain states. So it takes that
period of time for it to calm down and come
back to a baseline.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
And where would you advise if anyone's listening, a family
is listening and they want to hear this podcast because
of their son, daughter or whatever. Where because it's very hard.
It's so hard for parents. I'm sure it was hard
for your mum. Where where do you suggest The first
(27:35):
point of call is to go for help.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
Help, So if I was in that position, because with me,
I went to jail, so I was the first foremost
you need to persons whoever was using is to accept
that you have an issue.
Speaker 4 (27:51):
I wouldn't say like the word that.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
When they use the word addiction, you sound it's like
a to me person, it sounds like an ugly word
and a lot of you get little like sort of
like beginning denial about it, you know, use it that
will I have an issue where I'm using way too
much and it's affecting me to the point where I
can function I'm doing breaking end tos or whatever you
may be doing your family, And this is where you
(28:14):
need to think about going fuck. Well, for me to
come off how much am I take? I need to
wind down slowly and accept the fact that this is
going to be a very long road. And you know
most people, a lot of people here that take months
to years to recover from this. When you know that
when you wind down, and this is where you can say,
seek for professional help, but at the same time be
(28:36):
mindful as well, like people will come and help you
for sure one hundred percent, but also when you're going
through the withdrawals.
Speaker 4 (28:43):
And that it is very fulling and very intensive to
try your best to.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
Like learn to vent and stuff, but you can't make
sure you don't go over the top because if you
go over the top, you're scared your friends and family
and all the helpers away as well. And one thing
I can say is at the end of the day,
no one is really going to say and you You've
got people that will come and support you. But so
you have to become your own hero of your own journey.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
And you do yourself in Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
So, like the number one fact is what I learned
was with mine is a couple of months, and you
are going to go through hell.
Speaker 4 (29:19):
It is hell, and that's a fact. And when you're
having these each day, you'll have a good day, another
day a bad day. It's going to and vice versa.
It's going to be up and down, up and down
like crazy.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
Just remind yourself each day, each even each moment, to
remind yourself that this is part of the journey. This
is part of the pain, this is part of the
growing experience, This is part of the transformation. And look
at you know whatever whatever, do things that really gets
you go and inspires you. So for me, like I
was reading a lot of personal development, self development books,
(29:52):
looking at you know, inspiration. I was watching you know,
just superhero high fashion superheroes, so I was watched superhero movies.
Speaker 4 (29:58):
Going through that and doing anything and listen.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
One amazing token mechanism for me was listening to a
lot of music. Like music was a very therapeutic to
learn then.
Speaker 4 (30:12):
That also what else I use.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
Going for walks, you know, just going in nature, are
connecting and this is where with you as an individual,
if you're coming off this is the probably the hardest
one of the hardest things when you when you come
when you're actually off, is the fact that you went
from using every day feeling this high and becomes a
new baseline to nothing completely still. So you from being
(30:37):
up here, you come back down here right when you're
down here. This is one thing I had to learn
was it's the thing what you will know, it's called boredom.
Of what happens is you went from feeling good all
the time, applighs and lows and you know, when you're
in that scene, you see drama and that becomes you.
(31:01):
And then when you pull yourself, this is the fact
that it's not just to coming off when you put
yourself out of that environment. So you went from seeing
doing breaking it, whatever it is, doing this to violence, druggle.
Speaker 4 (31:11):
Whatever it is, to pour.
Speaker 3 (31:12):
On yourself and your you're just sitting in your own
space and you're coming off and you get bored. And
this is the probably the hardest thing for all people
that laps is the fact that this is what this
is reality. You're on a baseline and when you've been
using drugs for so long, it's me personally, I said,
well this this fucking sucks, man. You know, I'll give
(31:36):
you an example, like for me coming out of jail
and coming clean and stuff and just come really adjusting
back to side. It was very full on. That's the
story I can explain later on. And just I remember
walking with my friend. This is a Sunday afternoon, Admiral
lull bar, like just just people and this is this
is a beautiful somehow afternoon like kids and family running
(31:57):
around like a like a good amazing day like for
normal activities, normal people.
Speaker 4 (32:03):
And I was walking with him and I was like, fuck,
I's just like is this what? This is what? This
is what normal people do?
Speaker 2 (32:11):
Normal?
Speaker 4 (32:12):
There's normal. He goes because because yeah, that was like
this is yeah, this is what everyone. I'm like, well,
well this this is fucking this, this is this is ship.
This is fucking boring man.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
He turns around and goes go boring like yeah, man,
just like this is reality.
Speaker 4 (32:31):
Like I said, this is reality. That's nothing wrong.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
I'm just like I went from in the drug worlds
and drugs and violence, and I was seeing one of.
Speaker 4 (32:41):
In jail coming off and you know, seeing all this
all these things and scenes and what comes with it.
Speaker 3 (32:48):
Two now just walking out here, I fund out how
to do the kids and beings running around and this
is like my conditioning and well my body was conditioned
to be in that state to see those things.
Speaker 4 (33:01):
And this is where most everyone, this is what anyone
that's used everyone that used drugs that will all know.
Speaker 3 (33:07):
This is the fact that being that on that sort
of state of mind for so period and then come
back to normality, it actually is boring.
Speaker 4 (33:14):
And this is where very important.
Speaker 3 (33:18):
Like most people don't talk about is except the fact
that this is what happens, and you need to.
Speaker 4 (33:25):
Learn to like you do.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
You have different forms that with to do a lot
of meditation and mindfulness and different things, but you're going
to retrain your mind. So it's basically like you get
up like your mind, like you're going to train your
mind again to go this is normality and this is awesome,
Like this is great contense. So for me, I was like,
well months, I'm like turning my mind and you know
(33:50):
this is I would say, oh, honestly, so this has
been coming out of jail and nine months to like
fully adjust back to society.
Speaker 4 (33:57):
Like fully integration process is just on and just done.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
Now I love this, Like me sitting here now like
talking to you, I love it. Like my old version
of me will be like what do you what do
you fucking doing?
Speaker 4 (34:15):
Man? You wouldn't not inspiratual talk and whatever.
Speaker 3 (34:18):
It is not hard to go want and go like
this is what when you get that star in your mind,
go just just call up your dealer.
Speaker 4 (34:27):
You can go to that you know drugs, Say you've
got some drugs.
Speaker 3 (34:30):
Just go there and just have a hit and chill
out the mate, and then you can do things.
Speaker 4 (34:35):
And that's like, I'm.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
So glad you're back to a normal life. I love
my normal life. I couldn't actually think of anything worse,
you know, like it must be horrific and you've done
it with so much grit and determination. Do you have
like a favorite saying or anything, like is there a
(35:02):
life mantra or motto that got you through all this?
Like you've had so many writings. Is there something that
like a little saying that you think, Oh, that's that's
my saying that got me through.
Speaker 4 (35:15):
My saying is no one is going to save you.
You have to become your own authentic hero.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
Well, I love it, I love it. Song What about
a song? What about if there's a song that describes
harms what would it be or if any of your
friends or would say, oh, that song is harms.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
Actually I do love my I do with me my
phone one of my best for I love enjoying expressing
myself and it's a great mechanism through like dancing and music.
So my favorite, like my song is what I always
tay that on if I really want to pop myself
up to get some fine or really break it down,
(36:00):
it's Destination Calber. It's what is it called, Alex Guido
Destination Calbery?
Speaker 2 (36:10):
What?
Speaker 4 (36:11):
Sorry, it's actually Destination I know him.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Oh that how does that go? Destination? I know it?
Oh yeah, yeah yeah. And it's like a dad song.
Oh my god, that is so you. When I think
of you, when I think of Hans I see him
sometimes on some social media. When I think of Hanns,
(36:37):
I think everyone was come for fighting. You should say
him that cat was fast and he's like, you know,
does sort of like kickboxing and whatever. He's So that's
my song for you.
Speaker 4 (36:52):
I know you've got your song.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
I've got my song for you because you have transformed
yourself and it's an absolute honored to have you agree,
and I would like to invite you back because I
know you've got some news coming your new adventure and
business down the track, so I want to follow you
up arms because I think it's a great story. You've
(37:17):
gone from basically junkie drug dealer coming off drugs, transforming
yourself to basically a fitness fitness freak. You are looking
at you, you know, maybe maybe for pure grit, I
have to put a photo of parts in his in
his dick toms or something.
Speaker 4 (37:38):
So I'm just joking.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
Just show that you have transformed yourself, like you look
like a picture of health, and I can imagine how
you looked as a junkie and it's not how you
look at incredible.
Speaker 4 (37:54):
You'd be surprised, like just you know, having that you
become a junk you lose like you.
Speaker 3 (37:59):
Just tip whether away. And this is one thing I do,
Like I say, is anyone that's with it a way
lose a lot of weight and stuff. It's you come
on off if you can pull it off. One of
the best forms of replacing your habit is going to
the gym and training, having eating a healthy life size exercise. Yeah,
(38:19):
and that it becomes a great form of like you
see yourself physically changing. You feel fit and healthy, active,
you have a lot of energy, and it's a great,
good replacement. So definitely one thing I'll highly advocate is
going to the gym and training or find something that's
a physical exercise. You know, it's this is one of
the tough journeys. Once you recovered, fully recovered, you have
(38:42):
to actually replace with other hobbies otherwise it will just
be just amount of time for you've.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
Fallen back into its Thank you so much for being
on pure great and I will follow you up so
I will hunt you down again. And I thank you
for all your honesty because it's you know, it's not
easy to I think it's fantastic you are completely recovered,
(39:07):
because people that aren't recovered won't admit what where they've
been and where there you have And I if I
had a hat, I take my hat off to your arms,
and I'm your biggest cheerleader because I'm so proud of you,
and it's it's been great that I've got to meet
you and thank you for talking about drugs and ice
(39:30):
and you know, it's a big issue and it's a
topical issue too with a lot of people, and a
lot of people don't understand and you do, and you've
got sympathy. I know you have sympathy for people who
are in the grips of it at the moment.
Speaker 4 (39:45):
Yes, I'd help the number of people and I do
what I can as well.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
Thank you, Hans, Thank you for being on Pure Grit.
Speaker 4 (39:52):
Thank you so much. And I love you. Thank you.
I love your questions and everything. It's so good. Thank
you so much.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
Everyone was gone fighting. Thank you for coming on.
Speaker 4 (40:06):
Maybe you know in the YouTube I do come back on.
Maybe we should have that as to intro.
Speaker 2 (40:16):
Thank you Han, thanks for coming on.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
Well there you go. Thanks for listening to Pure Grit
with Paula McGrath. Now the webcoud has been a very
busy boy. You can now visit the website pure Grit
dot com dot au, search Pure Group podcast on Facebook
and Instagram for the fun behind the scenes stuff. And
I was wondering why paul had started wearing makeup. It
turns out all the chats are now on YouTube as well,
so make sure you give that a subscribe.
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