December 21, 2024 • 36 mins
Lindy Chamberlain-Creighton’s fight for justice didn’t end with a courtroom. In Part 2, she reveals how she survived prison, reclaimed her life, and inspired a nation. Don’t miss it.
In Part 2 of Lindy Chamberlain-Creighton’s gripping story, we dive deeper into her extraordinary journey of resilience. After the tragic loss of her baby Azaria, Lindy faced years of wrongful imprisonment, intense public scrutiny, and unimaginable personal challenges. This episode of Pure Grit reveals the untold struggles and triumphs that defined her fight for justice.
Lindy opens up about her time in Darwin Prison, her separation from her children, and the heartbreaking moments she could only experience from behind bars. She recounts the powerful support from unexpected allies and the unwavering faith that kept her moving forward. From her final exoneration in 2012 to the lessons she’s learned about humanity, forgiveness, and living with purpose, Lindy’s story is a testament to unyielding strength.
With insights into the legal system, media bias, and her lasting legacy, this episode leaves listeners inspired and hopeful. Lindy shares life wisdom, the importance of courage and kindness, and her mantra for stepping out of the shadows and into the sunlight.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Pure Grit with Paula McGrath. If you search
the word grit, you'd see that it means to have courage,
show strength of character, passion and perseverance. Throughout the series,
paul chat to guess from all walks of life who
have shown pure grit to get to where they are now. Paula, Paula, yeah, look,
(00:26):
he looks fine. I've done the intro, so ready for
you to talk now? Yeah, you do your talking things.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Welcome to Part two of the incredible story of Lindy Chamber.
Last week you would have heard about Azaria being taken
from the tent. We all know it. It's so famously
and dingoes talk my baby. Please enjoy Part two with Lindy,
where we continue on with her incredible story. When you,
I mean, you're absolutely amazing, because how what was the
(00:58):
worst moment or worse time you endured in Darwen prison?
You were there for three over three years? What was that?
I mean, what was that.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
When I was so Reagan and had his eye accident?
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Oh? Yes, because oh that was your worst. That was
the worst time because you couldn't be there.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Supports even offered to pay Not only am I fear
to go down, but you have to have two prison
guards to go with you prisoner transport. They offered to
pay them as well and all their accommodation and my
(01:42):
accommodation for me to be able to go down and
visit him because he was crying for me. And the
answer was no, we would have to prove mental trauma
(02:03):
before they would allow that. Now, the prison system at
the time was set up to allow that. There shouldn't
have been any problem. So the first excuse was money,
and then when that was taken away, then it's well,
you've got to prove mental trauma. Well, how do you
(02:27):
how do you do that in a six year old kid?
I know?
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Yeah, well six year old kid all they want is
their mum, especially if they're injured or sick.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Yes, at that stage, they were thinking that his second
eye might be blinded in sympathy with the first. Fortunately
it hasn't and he's still a one eyed pirate.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
He's so he's he did lose the sight in that eye.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
Oh yeah, totally, totally. Oh, part of that from neglect,
but we won't go into that. No, No, actually got
two kids with one eye now, Oh, Carlia also has
very little sight in one eye. She got limes disease
(03:21):
from the itics tested positive, but the doctor said, I
know it's a false positive. We don't have that in
Australia's And I said, did you tell him we lived
in America with deer running through the backyard. So no,
he was an idiot. But it's a side effect of
(03:47):
limes disease. And by the time I realized what was
happening that she really couldn't see out of that eye,
she just said, oh, I've got a spot in mind. Well,
I mean that that can be anything. They did lots
(04:07):
of tests on it once they realized what was happening,
but there's nothing you can do. It's even if we've
got it early, there was nothing we could do. So
it's bigger and smaller, and she has riferal outside vision.
But you shut her other eye and she's looking straight ahead.
(04:30):
She can't see.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
And you never got to, really you got because you
gave birth to Carlia when you were in prison, and
then you didn't see her until she was three.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
After that, Ah, that's yeah, that's a common fellacy. You
did it. You did see her. I had her for
a few hours and then when I got bail, she
was four days old. I told that they had given
(05:03):
me bails so I could find out what to do
with the kid. The kid and I thought, that doesn't
sound good. But I then had her for almost five
(05:23):
months when the appeal went through, and then I went
back in. So I actually had two stretches of prison,
and when you added them together, I did about six
weeks less than three years in all. So by the
(05:48):
time I got out she was she was three just
but she knew who I was because she used to
come on prison visits and she eventually got big enough
to work out that that lady sitting there really is mum.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Oh, and it was so beautiful, is very beautiful.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
It's very beautiful. They must have been arguing somewhere, or
rather I knew she was up to something. And then
she was whispering to the boys, and they went asked
her to go on, and she produced a hair brush.
This is on a prison visit, produced a hairbrush from
behind her back and says, who dies. I said, well,
(06:43):
that's yours now, but it was Aiden's, and when he
grew too big, then it was Reagan's, and he grew
too big, and now it's yours and she said f
At late that visit, she climbed onto my lap for
(07:05):
the first time, and after that she she called me
mummy Lindy because her foster mom did, or she could
to get it, called her auntie. But all the other
kids called her mummy, so she got as far as
Carlia called her mummy Jenny, so she had Jenny and Mummy. Lindy.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Oh so.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Really tweeted that the real mum.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
That was the real mumm. Yeah, that's that's that's mum.
So how did the other prisoners treat you, Lindy?
Speaker 3 (07:46):
Oh well, everybody goes through a bit when they first
get there, but after the initial hassles, everything was pretty
much fine. The cops used to scare their daylights out
of some of them. They were having trouble with that.
(08:08):
You know, they're going to behave because they get to
prison and Lindy Chamberlain had sought them out. The funny
part would be sitting around after dinner and a half
the girls had leapt and then they'd go, where's this,
where's this? Lindy? You know when where she is she
(08:28):
kept away from everybody else. It's like, Noah, what said Yeah,
they give you a scare, did they. It's only just
to make you behave, and all the girls would laugh
thinking it was funny.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
So that a little day it was just they were
a bit scared of you.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
No, but well only only until they realized had been
duped by But yeah, yeah, so.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
It was You know, how did you pass the days?
You would have just been longing to.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
See your kids? On visits there must have been what
anybody had been well, locally you were allowed to have
a visit per week, that one, if you could get
your church pastor to come in. You could have one
(09:32):
religious visit a week. And there was I think maybe twice,
perhaps three times in the whole time I was there.
Did I ever see another minister come in and visit
a parishioner. Most of them seemed to consider once you're inside.
(09:57):
In fact, one of the ministers and visited me and
then he said he was off, and I said, hang on,
you've got another parishioner in here. How come you're not
seeing Ah, she's a naughty girl. Oh we actually had words.
So that, yeah, is Christianity was stood up to.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Par No, so they were naughty, not not forgivable.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
Huh. Yeah, And they had the same QC that I
had had against them Aboriginal girls. And they were never
given a translator till after they had been retried and
were being resentenced and they were finally given a translator.
(10:50):
They had no idea what they were being accused.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Of, no idea because they didn't speak yet exact terrible.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
I mean, they spoke English, but it was very basic,
basic English. Yeah. I spent about four months trying to
teach two of the girls how to work out change
from a dollar wow. And I don't think they ever
(11:25):
did get it.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
In the end.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
It would just be do I have enough money for
this or that? No, you'll have to, you know, leave
some in. You'll be able to get that on you
by next time or whatever. It was just you know,
big mobs or little mobs. What's the dollar? Ten cents,
five cents, it's money, and it's they they get taken
(11:53):
in by people who goes you know, they'll hand over
their cash and say how much and you just take
a note out of the hand and they have no
no idea if it was red, green, yellow, bluem and
so you get whatever comes out of their pocket first.
(12:17):
And I know when we're in go. They said, you know,
you can go fishing and then off them at the
pub on payday and you could get one hundred dollar
note for your fish, or you might only get a five.
What comes out and it's like, but a hang on,
what happened to? Oh? Well, they don't they don't know.
(12:40):
That's terrible you do. And that's the trouble. If it's
somebody that's had a lot of contact with whites for
a long time, or is a city aboriginal or part
part have original it's a whole different ballgame to ones
(13:06):
who have grown up on out stations or a full
blood or whatever. Yes, I mean that's that is not
to detegrate them. They have abilities that we whites don't
and have here incredible and just because you're different does
(13:29):
not make you less.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
No.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
I remember the translator that they had given the women trackers,
and with your question about Assari being taken, we were
talking before the male trackers were there on the night.
But the best trackers in the tribe were women. Wow,
(13:53):
and three women who did the tracking the next day.
But they were only allowed to talk when they were
at home or they had to talk through a translator.
After they'd been given permission by the council. Oh my gosh,
(14:17):
but what a lot of people didn't realize. And here's
another mess up in the case nipple. And Marty was
the head man, and as the head man, he can
answer all questions asked him in the first person, Ah,
so did you track? So so, yes, your honor, I
(14:41):
tracked and I did this. Well then the crown had say, well,
your honor, we know perfectly well it wasn't even there
till the next day, and it's like, yes, but the
person he is answering the question for was and so
(15:01):
they don't ask about culturally allowed thing.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
He was speaking on behalf of He spoke.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
On behalf of half a dozen, and so they belittled him, said, well,
you know he wears he wears these big glasses and
that was the lady that did that, and it was
a man that did that. And they would hold him
over so he didn't give you his evidence, have him
waiting all day court, and then he'd be annoyed. He'd
(15:36):
go have a drink with his mates at night, and
then he'd have a dirty shirt the next morning and
be ashamed. And they'd complain about having to buy him
a shirt and he's not in court because he got
drunk and things like that, which is one reason all
the shreats that they were making against them. All we
(15:58):
knew they do. We tendered his evidence at the second
inquest rather than put him through that because we didn't
think it was right. And then they're like, oh, well,
you know, if it was decent evidence, they'd have called
them in. Well, no, we wouldn't. That's not an ethical
(16:18):
thing to do. But it confused everybody. Reading about in
the paper, they hope, well, yeah, he wasn't there, so fine. However,
talk talking to reporters at the time, they said, oh,
you remember when the court went to Wehres Rock and
(16:39):
we'd all got there and it was lunchtime and we
had to eat before court started, and there was a
big picnic area, so everybody us and our lawyers and
at least five different lots of photographers and and well
(17:02):
reporters and their cameramen. Some of them were TV crews,
some of them were newspaper Crewis we're all having lunch
and chatting. You see one another every day?
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (17:14):
And I suddenly got this called Lindy Quick, get out
of here, and it's like, what this new crew won't
hold to the rules. So the unspoken rules were if
I walked in through the front door and out through
the front door every day after ours, yes they wouldn't
(17:38):
follow me around, but they knew this crew would, and
so we packed up and high tailed out of it.
But they got they hadn't got any photos, but the
next day's headline was Lindy picnics a daughter's death sitles
some such oh you know, had you had to be
(18:05):
you do you hold careful? But they said to us
after you got I don't know what they were doing,
but they were doing something and Nipper was there, and
they looked up and they were wanted, no wonder who
this is, and he named who it was and what
(18:27):
car they were driving, and they said they said his
eyesight was no good, but we couldn't tell for quite
a number of seconds after that for the car to
get closer, for them to realize he was right. It
was there their other work at turning up and he
was in the type of car that Nipper had said,
(18:50):
So it's like, okay, might need those glasses, but obviously
his long distance site was still fine. Fine.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
He could see that, yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
And somebody said in court to the commissioner. And a
lot of these little asides are left out of the
transcript because they're, you know, things that happened, but they're
not part of the court case. The question, and she
(19:20):
turned around and and answered it, which made everybody laugh
at the commissioner. Paul boy went read. However, she said
to him, let me tell you something. If everybody leads
court today, you don't know who went where, No, but
they can tell you where every person in this court went.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Right.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
And if the baby gets crying for mum, somebody will
point out mum's footprints and tell the kid to follow them.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Right.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
That's how they are taught to track, from tiny kids
to no different individuals footprints. Amazing. Yeah, and they said,
you know, you, you might be able to talk all smart,
but they know where everybody's done exactly. And it's true.
(20:15):
It's you know, it's a different, totally different talent.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
So, Lindy, you was talking to like, what was it
two thousand and twelve, was it twenty twelve? You were
publicly finally exonerated, like yeah, for the second.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
Second half of the third in Quest, but everybody calls
it the fourth in Quest. Because it was a different
coroner and it was the first time. And so now
fortunately we have new coronial rules that allow them to
(20:59):
stay what they knows happened, for like crocodile attacks, shark attacked,
all those things where you don't end up with the body,
but everybody knows what's happened, because until then you just
put down death by misadventure, because to give an actual
cause of death, you've got to be able to say
(21:22):
it was a heart attack, it was you know, carotid
artery was slashed, or you've got to give a specific
and without a body, you can't do that. So I
just can't misadventure, and misadventure can be reopened at any
time they want. Plus I was still listed on the
(21:44):
errors the murderer. That's why we kept going back, because
I've been don rated in one type of court but
not the other and not the other.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Oh, sister, it was such like thirty two years later, yeah,
thirteen two years later. You're just incredible. Your your resilience,
You're you're like your human spirit, Wendy. I just I
just because I used to see pictures of you holding
(22:14):
you know, back I remember it distinctively back when I
was eight, you know, and then I was ten, and
then I was thirteen. It was a part of my childhood.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
You looked a lot like my mom.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
So I just would see my mom and you like,
if you see my mom even now, you look you
do look alike, and I'll just see this beautiful, You're beautiful,
You're a beautiful woman. And I just think, there's no
I just remember my mom saying there is absolutely no
way she killed her baby, like just flat late. My
(22:44):
mom never ever thought it for a second. And I
know there were people that did. And do you ever
come across people now then do that say sorry that
I thought that, Like I don't know, like there was so.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
Actually, yeah, yes I do.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
What do you say to them?
Speaker 3 (23:04):
You know what? I then really interesting after the last
in quest, there were a lot of people who said, well, yeah,
we knew you were exonerated and everything else, but we
never really believed till now, and so in their minds
(23:24):
until the Currenter's court said it was a didnto, they
still didn't actually believe. And you know, the supporters cried
when I was sentenced. Yeah, of course this one. I thought, well,
(23:46):
you know, they'll be rejoicing and a lot of my
supporters were overjoyed, but I was amazed at the people
who said they held their eyes out. But why why? Yeah,
I see, so we're shown.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
So you think there is still you think there's still
people out there that think that you were guilty.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
Do you think about thirty three percent of Australians? What
that's a shocking is the bigger bee. How many was
innocent and the rest thought I was guilty? And as
time has gone on, it's reversed. But basically you see
(24:38):
thirty about a third of Australians really think and look
at what's happened, a third make up their mind on
headlines and just because they want to, and a third
(24:58):
in the middle of suede that way, depending on who
they're with. And I mean there are some people around now,
any anyone that saw the play. There's a scene in
there of a fictitious person. It's the only pictitious scene
in the whole of the play, where I supposed National
(25:25):
Library person it says I'm guilty and the other guys
like all this stuff around you and all the evidence
you've got and you still believe that you know what's
wrong with you, And it's like, well, that's what the
family believes. AH can't go against the family, And that
(25:46):
was put in there because when Elena Valentine said she
was doing this, she said, normally people go, oh, that'll
be interesting, you know what's this or that? She said
everybody had an opinion, they were on one side or
the other. They basically jumped on her as if it
(26:10):
was her, and so many people said to her, you know,
well that's what I thought. Then I can't change up
my mind. She decided to put it in the play
because it was such a strong Australian feeling even then
(26:31):
two thousand and sixteen.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Or something that bother you to today, Lindy or not?
Does it bother you?
Speaker 3 (26:40):
Well, there's no point being bothered. And I know this
is in the middle, but I have to tell you
what to Just come up with low battery. That's okay.
I've probably got ten minutes made.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
It's okay about it. So I just wonder if.
Speaker 3 (27:03):
That you you can't let yourself go down the rabbit
hole of poor me. What is the point Are you
hurting those people? Are you making them change their mind?
Are they going to change it because you say you're offended? No,
(27:25):
they're not and if they know that you're upset, they're
only going to be happier. True, very true. I've got
a life to live to me.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
And you've got grandkids.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
You've got kids, And that's other people's problems they've eventually
got to answer. That's between their conscience and God. It's
not between me. Those that are saying they're sorry these days,
I really appreciate that, and I now it will help
them move on. But for my personal life, no, No,
(28:03):
I've got other things to do. And having been sick
for the last month, I haven't even seen my three
lovely little granddaughters.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Oh haven't you Have you been sick, Lindy? What have you?
What's been wrong? Oh?
Speaker 3 (28:17):
I got that nasty cold that was going around and
flipped over into Langela fever when I periodically diet because
I had it so bad when I was in my twenties.
(28:37):
I actually almost didn't make it to my wedding. The
dr was going to keep in bed. My whole throat
closed over and I was off work and in bed
most of the time for nearly eight weeks. So that's
your It keeps coming back periodically, and the end of
(29:00):
that I've been feeling nauseous for about a week.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
No, that's not Lindy. I hope you feel better because
you know you that's not what you need, and that's
your obviously your immune system.
Speaker 3 (29:19):
You know I haven't had a coughing session. You haven't.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
You're on the men. You're on the men before out,
before we run out of battery. I want to ask you.
I asked all my guests, and I especially want to
ask you because I is there a saying, a favorite
saying of yours, or a life mantra that you can
(29:44):
leave my listeners with a piece of Lindy's wisdom that
got you through this terrible miscarriage of justice. What's your
life motto?
Speaker 3 (30:00):
I've done about life motto, but I can. I hadn't
thought about for a long time that only you're saying.
Men reminded me that you had sent some questions through
which I think I read the first two, and that
might have been the first one. Then I quit reading.
(30:22):
What comes to mind is a saying from an old palm,
and I've forgotten who. Yeah, that my dad or my
granddead or both of them used to say that really
struck accord at the time. Life is mostly froth and bubble.
(30:45):
Two things stand like stone, Kindness in another's trouble, courage
in your own.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
I love that, Lindy. I'm going to write that down.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
And I used to put that in autograph books when
they were a thing and people asked me for an
autograph as a teenage. You're growing up. I thought that
meant a lot. And the story I read once that
(31:22):
Dad found somewhere and he and I were discussing it,
that I thought was good and I've thought about and
taught my kids. Out of the shadow into the sunshine,
and that is if you do something wrong or something
happens that can have consequences or whatever, admitted immediately that
(31:51):
you know, first chance you get and then get into
the sunshine. You're out of the shadow into the sunshine.
Get on with your life, get it done O. So true.
That takes away a lot of the guilt. You're like,
what if somebody finds out? What?
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Well, admit it, let it, yeah, and let it go
and you're out. And so you're right, you're out of
the shadow into the sunshine. How about music? Is there
a song that thumbs up Lindy Chamberlain Crater.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
One I learned in my twenties.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
That is.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
You're there, Yeah, I'm here. Oh, it just went the
fourth scene. Okay, what's the one that I learned? It
is not very well known, but it's a Christian song.
So send are You?
Speaker 2 (32:54):
So send are you?
Speaker 3 (32:56):
I don't know that.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
I have to look that one up. I'll find that, yes,
So send are You? That is Lindy, Lindy on the Heart.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
You used to sing that at some of the rallies
for me. They asked me one and I said, try
that one.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
I send. I'm going to write that down.
Speaker 3 (33:12):
I send and so send I you. And for a
modern one, the wind beneath my wings.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Oh love that, Lindy.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
That's beautiful. That's my Rick.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
Oh that's your Rick.
Speaker 3 (33:30):
Oh what a love story in this world? It's Rick.
And I wouldn't have got through this without God, who gave.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
Me wings sertingly dead Lindy. And I just want to say,
on behalf of Australia and to all those ignorant people
that I have that horde, that biggoted position of still
perhaps believing you're guilty. I just want to say I'm sorry,
because you know, I just feel like I need to
(34:03):
say that. On Behalf of all those idiots out there
to be really.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
Honest and be nice.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
So I'm saying it on their behalf because you know,
I hope they.
Speaker 3 (34:13):
Wouldn't want you to say it on their behalf. No
I know, but yeah, I send nothing ever happened to
them and they don't have to learn the hard way
not to judge. Yes, yeah, that's all.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
Thank you, Lindy, Thank you so much for joining me
on Pure Grit. And I send you lots of love
and lots of love to Rip and all the grandkids
and your all your kids too, and I hope you
get better and stronger soon you get out into the sunshine,
get out of the get out of the house now
and get some sun.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
Get on my back. I can see that I love
to have.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
I'd love to have a cup of tea with you
one day, maybe in the future.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
If you Where are you?
Speaker 2 (35:03):
I live at Alexandra Headland. On the subject, how's that?
Speaker 3 (35:09):
How is that from somewhere like Mont phil.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
Only like not even twenty probably twenty five minutes half
an hour.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
I go down there occasionally and they've got some nice
coffee shops. So let's let's do that.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
I'll organize through Rick yes, could win beneath your wings and.
Speaker 3 (35:32):
There is a fabulous place if you've never been. Secrets
on the Lake. Yes, never open on Monday, but it's beautiful.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
I've got a little bit of trivia for you, Lindy.
I did the voiceover for Secrets on the Lake.
Speaker 3 (35:49):
Years ago. Well, I hope they gave you some free
accommodation because they actually never stayed there. I've always put
that on my A list. But the restaurant's lovely.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
I'm going to meet you there. I'm going to meet
you there. I actually that's that's a little bit of trivia.
I did do a boy.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
You can go in and say, hey, I did this
one you Secrets on the Lake.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Thank you, Lindy, sending you lots of love. Thank you
so much for joining us on Pure Grit.
Speaker 3 (36:22):
Well it's been a pleasure.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
Well there you go. Thanks for listening to Pure Grit
with Paul McGrath. Now the web guy's been a very
busy boy. You can now visit the website pure grit
dot com dot au, search Pure Grip podcast on Facebook
and Instagram for the fun behind the scenes stuff. And
I was wondering why Paul had started wearing makeup. Turns
out all the chats are now on YouTube as well,
so make sure you give that a subscribe
Welcome to Pure Grit with Paula McGrath. If you search
the word grit, you'd see that it means to have courage,
show strength of character, passion and perseverance. Throughout the series,
paul chat to guess from all walks of life who
have shown pure grit to get to where they are now. Paula, Paula, yeah, look,
(00:26):
he looks fine. I've done the intro, so ready for
you to talk now? Yeah, you do your talking things.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Welcome to Part two of the incredible story of Lindy Chamber.
Last week you would have heard about Azaria being taken
from the tent. We all know it. It's so famously
and dingoes talk my baby. Please enjoy Part two with Lindy,
where we continue on with her incredible story. When you,
I mean, you're absolutely amazing, because how what was the
(00:58):
worst moment or worse time you endured in Darwen prison?
You were there for three over three years? What was that?
I mean, what was that.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
When I was so Reagan and had his eye accident?
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Oh? Yes, because oh that was your worst. That was
the worst time because you couldn't be there.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Supports even offered to pay Not only am I fear
to go down, but you have to have two prison
guards to go with you prisoner transport. They offered to
pay them as well and all their accommodation and my
(01:42):
accommodation for me to be able to go down and
visit him because he was crying for me. And the
answer was no, we would have to prove mental trauma
(02:03):
before they would allow that. Now, the prison system at
the time was set up to allow that. There shouldn't
have been any problem. So the first excuse was money,
and then when that was taken away, then it's well,
you've got to prove mental trauma. Well, how do you
(02:27):
how do you do that in a six year old kid?
I know?
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Yeah, well six year old kid all they want is
their mum, especially if they're injured or sick.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Yes, at that stage, they were thinking that his second
eye might be blinded in sympathy with the first. Fortunately
it hasn't and he's still a one eyed pirate.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
He's so he's he did lose the sight in that eye.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
Oh yeah, totally, totally. Oh, part of that from neglect,
but we won't go into that. No, No, actually got
two kids with one eye now, Oh, Carlia also has
very little sight in one eye. She got limes disease
(03:21):
from the itics tested positive, but the doctor said, I
know it's a false positive. We don't have that in
Australia's And I said, did you tell him we lived
in America with deer running through the backyard. So no,
he was an idiot. But it's a side effect of
(03:47):
limes disease. And by the time I realized what was
happening that she really couldn't see out of that eye,
she just said, oh, I've got a spot in mind. Well,
I mean that that can be anything. They did lots
(04:07):
of tests on it once they realized what was happening,
but there's nothing you can do. It's even if we've
got it early, there was nothing we could do. So
it's bigger and smaller, and she has riferal outside vision.
But you shut her other eye and she's looking straight ahead.
(04:30):
She can't see.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
And you never got to, really you got because you
gave birth to Carlia when you were in prison, and
then you didn't see her until she was three.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
After that, Ah, that's yeah, that's a common fellacy. You
did it. You did see her. I had her for
a few hours and then when I got bail, she
was four days old. I told that they had given
(05:03):
me bails so I could find out what to do
with the kid. The kid and I thought, that doesn't
sound good. But I then had her for almost five
(05:23):
months when the appeal went through, and then I went
back in. So I actually had two stretches of prison,
and when you added them together, I did about six
weeks less than three years in all. So by the
(05:48):
time I got out she was she was three just
but she knew who I was because she used to
come on prison visits and she eventually got big enough
to work out that that lady sitting there really is mum.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Oh, and it was so beautiful, is very beautiful.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
It's very beautiful. They must have been arguing somewhere, or
rather I knew she was up to something. And then
she was whispering to the boys, and they went asked
her to go on, and she produced a hair brush.
This is on a prison visit, produced a hairbrush from
behind her back and says, who dies. I said, well,
(06:43):
that's yours now, but it was Aiden's, and when he
grew too big, then it was Reagan's, and he grew
too big, and now it's yours and she said f
At late that visit, she climbed onto my lap for
(07:05):
the first time, and after that she she called me
mummy Lindy because her foster mom did, or she could
to get it, called her auntie. But all the other
kids called her mummy, so she got as far as
Carlia called her mummy Jenny, so she had Jenny and Mummy. Lindy.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Oh so.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Really tweeted that the real mum.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
That was the real mumm. Yeah, that's that's that's mum.
So how did the other prisoners treat you, Lindy?
Speaker 3 (07:46):
Oh well, everybody goes through a bit when they first
get there, but after the initial hassles, everything was pretty
much fine. The cops used to scare their daylights out
of some of them. They were having trouble with that.
(08:08):
You know, they're going to behave because they get to
prison and Lindy Chamberlain had sought them out. The funny
part would be sitting around after dinner and a half
the girls had leapt and then they'd go, where's this,
where's this? Lindy? You know when where she is she
(08:28):
kept away from everybody else. It's like, Noah, what said Yeah,
they give you a scare, did they. It's only just
to make you behave, and all the girls would laugh
thinking it was funny.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
So that a little day it was just they were
a bit scared of you.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
No, but well only only until they realized had been
duped by But yeah, yeah, so.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
It was You know, how did you pass the days?
You would have just been longing to.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
See your kids? On visits there must have been what
anybody had been well, locally you were allowed to have
a visit per week, that one, if you could get
your church pastor to come in. You could have one
(09:32):
religious visit a week. And there was I think maybe twice,
perhaps three times in the whole time I was there.
Did I ever see another minister come in and visit
a parishioner. Most of them seemed to consider once you're inside.
(09:57):
In fact, one of the ministers and visited me and
then he said he was off, and I said, hang on,
you've got another parishioner in here. How come you're not
seeing Ah, she's a naughty girl. Oh we actually had words.
So that, yeah, is Christianity was stood up to.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Par No, so they were naughty, not not forgivable.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
Huh. Yeah, And they had the same QC that I
had had against them Aboriginal girls. And they were never
given a translator till after they had been retried and
were being resentenced and they were finally given a translator.
(10:50):
They had no idea what they were being accused.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Of, no idea because they didn't speak yet exact terrible.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
I mean, they spoke English, but it was very basic,
basic English. Yeah. I spent about four months trying to
teach two of the girls how to work out change
from a dollar wow. And I don't think they ever
(11:25):
did get it.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
In the end.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
It would just be do I have enough money for
this or that? No, you'll have to, you know, leave
some in. You'll be able to get that on you
by next time or whatever. It was just you know,
big mobs or little mobs. What's the dollar? Ten cents,
five cents, it's money, and it's they they get taken
(11:53):
in by people who goes you know, they'll hand over
their cash and say how much and you just take
a note out of the hand and they have no
no idea if it was red, green, yellow, bluem and
so you get whatever comes out of their pocket first.
(12:17):
And I know when we're in go. They said, you know,
you can go fishing and then off them at the
pub on payday and you could get one hundred dollar
note for your fish, or you might only get a five.
What comes out and it's like, but a hang on,
what happened to? Oh? Well, they don't they don't know.
(12:40):
That's terrible you do. And that's the trouble. If it's
somebody that's had a lot of contact with whites for
a long time, or is a city aboriginal or part
part have original it's a whole different ballgame to ones
(13:06):
who have grown up on out stations or a full
blood or whatever. Yes, I mean that's that is not
to detegrate them. They have abilities that we whites don't
and have here incredible and just because you're different does
(13:29):
not make you less.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
No.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
I remember the translator that they had given the women trackers,
and with your question about Assari being taken, we were
talking before the male trackers were there on the night.
But the best trackers in the tribe were women. Wow,
(13:53):
and three women who did the tracking the next day.
But they were only allowed to talk when they were
at home or they had to talk through a translator.
After they'd been given permission by the council. Oh my gosh,
(14:17):
but what a lot of people didn't realize. And here's
another mess up in the case nipple. And Marty was
the head man, and as the head man, he can
answer all questions asked him in the first person, Ah,
so did you track? So so, yes, your honor, I
(14:41):
tracked and I did this. Well then the crown had say, well,
your honor, we know perfectly well it wasn't even there
till the next day, and it's like, yes, but the
person he is answering the question for was and so
(15:01):
they don't ask about culturally allowed thing.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
He was speaking on behalf of He spoke.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
On behalf of half a dozen, and so they belittled him, said, well,
you know he wears he wears these big glasses and
that was the lady that did that, and it was
a man that did that. And they would hold him
over so he didn't give you his evidence, have him
waiting all day court, and then he'd be annoyed. He'd
(15:36):
go have a drink with his mates at night, and
then he'd have a dirty shirt the next morning and
be ashamed. And they'd complain about having to buy him
a shirt and he's not in court because he got
drunk and things like that, which is one reason all
the shreats that they were making against them. All we
(15:58):
knew they do. We tendered his evidence at the second
inquest rather than put him through that because we didn't
think it was right. And then they're like, oh, well,
you know, if it was decent evidence, they'd have called
them in. Well, no, we wouldn't. That's not an ethical
(16:18):
thing to do. But it confused everybody. Reading about in
the paper, they hope, well, yeah, he wasn't there, so fine. However,
talk talking to reporters at the time, they said, oh,
you remember when the court went to Wehres Rock and
(16:39):
we'd all got there and it was lunchtime and we
had to eat before court started, and there was a
big picnic area, so everybody us and our lawyers and
at least five different lots of photographers and and well
(17:02):
reporters and their cameramen. Some of them were TV crews,
some of them were newspaper Crewis we're all having lunch
and chatting. You see one another every day?
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (17:14):
And I suddenly got this called Lindy Quick, get out
of here, and it's like, what this new crew won't
hold to the rules. So the unspoken rules were if
I walked in through the front door and out through
the front door every day after ours, yes they wouldn't
(17:38):
follow me around, but they knew this crew would, and
so we packed up and high tailed out of it.
But they got they hadn't got any photos, but the
next day's headline was Lindy picnics a daughter's death sitles
some such oh you know, had you had to be
(18:05):
you do you hold careful? But they said to us
after you got I don't know what they were doing,
but they were doing something and Nipper was there, and
they looked up and they were wanted, no wonder who
this is, and he named who it was and what
(18:27):
car they were driving, and they said they said his
eyesight was no good, but we couldn't tell for quite
a number of seconds after that for the car to
get closer, for them to realize he was right. It
was there their other work at turning up and he
was in the type of car that Nipper had said,
(18:50):
So it's like, okay, might need those glasses, but obviously
his long distance site was still fine. Fine.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
He could see that, yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
And somebody said in court to the commissioner. And a
lot of these little asides are left out of the
transcript because they're, you know, things that happened, but they're
not part of the court case. The question, and she
(19:20):
turned around and and answered it, which made everybody laugh
at the commissioner. Paul boy went read. However, she said
to him, let me tell you something. If everybody leads
court today, you don't know who went where, No, but
they can tell you where every person in this court went.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Right.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
And if the baby gets crying for mum, somebody will
point out mum's footprints and tell the kid to follow them.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Right.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
That's how they are taught to track, from tiny kids
to no different individuals footprints. Amazing. Yeah, and they said,
you know, you, you might be able to talk all smart,
but they know where everybody's done exactly. And it's true.
(20:15):
It's you know, it's a different, totally different talent.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
So, Lindy, you was talking to like, what was it
two thousand and twelve, was it twenty twelve? You were
publicly finally exonerated, like yeah, for the second.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
Second half of the third in Quest, but everybody calls
it the fourth in Quest. Because it was a different
coroner and it was the first time. And so now
fortunately we have new coronial rules that allow them to
(20:59):
stay what they knows happened, for like crocodile attacks, shark attacked,
all those things where you don't end up with the body,
but everybody knows what's happened, because until then you just
put down death by misadventure, because to give an actual
cause of death, you've got to be able to say
(21:22):
it was a heart attack, it was you know, carotid
artery was slashed, or you've got to give a specific
and without a body, you can't do that. So I
just can't misadventure, and misadventure can be reopened at any
time they want. Plus I was still listed on the
(21:44):
errors the murderer. That's why we kept going back, because
I've been don rated in one type of court but
not the other and not the other.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Oh, sister, it was such like thirty two years later, yeah,
thirteen two years later. You're just incredible. Your your resilience,
You're you're like your human spirit, Wendy. I just I
just because I used to see pictures of you holding
(22:14):
you know, back I remember it distinctively back when I
was eight, you know, and then I was ten, and
then I was thirteen. It was a part of my childhood.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
You looked a lot like my mom.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
So I just would see my mom and you like,
if you see my mom even now, you look you
do look alike, and I'll just see this beautiful, You're beautiful,
You're a beautiful woman. And I just think, there's no
I just remember my mom saying there is absolutely no
way she killed her baby, like just flat late. My
(22:44):
mom never ever thought it for a second. And I
know there were people that did. And do you ever
come across people now then do that say sorry that
I thought that, Like I don't know, like there was so.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
Actually, yeah, yes I do.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
What do you say to them?
Speaker 3 (23:04):
You know what? I then really interesting after the last
in quest, there were a lot of people who said, well, yeah,
we knew you were exonerated and everything else, but we
never really believed till now, and so in their minds
(23:24):
until the Currenter's court said it was a didnto, they
still didn't actually believe. And you know, the supporters cried
when I was sentenced. Yeah, of course this one. I thought, well,
(23:46):
you know, they'll be rejoicing and a lot of my
supporters were overjoyed, but I was amazed at the people
who said they held their eyes out. But why why? Yeah,
I see, so we're shown.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
So you think there is still you think there's still
people out there that think that you were guilty.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
Do you think about thirty three percent of Australians? What
that's a shocking is the bigger bee. How many was
innocent and the rest thought I was guilty? And as
time has gone on, it's reversed. But basically you see
(24:38):
thirty about a third of Australians really think and look
at what's happened, a third make up their mind on
headlines and just because they want to, and a third
(24:58):
in the middle of suede that way, depending on who
they're with. And I mean there are some people around now,
any anyone that saw the play. There's a scene in
there of a fictitious person. It's the only pictitious scene
in the whole of the play, where I supposed National
(25:25):
Library person it says I'm guilty and the other guys
like all this stuff around you and all the evidence
you've got and you still believe that you know what's
wrong with you, And it's like, well, that's what the
family believes. AH can't go against the family, And that
(25:46):
was put in there because when Elena Valentine said she
was doing this, she said, normally people go, oh, that'll
be interesting, you know what's this or that? She said
everybody had an opinion, they were on one side or
the other. They basically jumped on her as if it
(26:10):
was her, and so many people said to her, you know,
well that's what I thought. Then I can't change up
my mind. She decided to put it in the play
because it was such a strong Australian feeling even then
(26:31):
two thousand and sixteen.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Or something that bother you to today, Lindy or not?
Does it bother you?
Speaker 3 (26:40):
Well, there's no point being bothered. And I know this
is in the middle, but I have to tell you
what to Just come up with low battery. That's okay.
I've probably got ten minutes made.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
It's okay about it. So I just wonder if.
Speaker 3 (27:03):
That you you can't let yourself go down the rabbit
hole of poor me. What is the point Are you
hurting those people? Are you making them change their mind?
Are they going to change it because you say you're offended? No,
(27:25):
they're not and if they know that you're upset, they're
only going to be happier. True, very true. I've got
a life to live to me.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
And you've got grandkids.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
You've got kids, And that's other people's problems they've eventually
got to answer. That's between their conscience and God. It's
not between me. Those that are saying they're sorry these days,
I really appreciate that, and I now it will help
them move on. But for my personal life, no, No,
(28:03):
I've got other things to do. And having been sick
for the last month, I haven't even seen my three
lovely little granddaughters.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Oh haven't you Have you been sick, Lindy? What have you?
What's been wrong? Oh?
Speaker 3 (28:17):
I got that nasty cold that was going around and
flipped over into Langela fever when I periodically diet because
I had it so bad when I was in my twenties.
(28:37):
I actually almost didn't make it to my wedding. The
dr was going to keep in bed. My whole throat
closed over and I was off work and in bed
most of the time for nearly eight weeks. So that's
your It keeps coming back periodically, and the end of
(29:00):
that I've been feeling nauseous for about a week.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
No, that's not Lindy. I hope you feel better because
you know you that's not what you need, and that's
your obviously your immune system.
Speaker 3 (29:19):
You know I haven't had a coughing session. You haven't.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
You're on the men. You're on the men before out,
before we run out of battery. I want to ask you.
I asked all my guests, and I especially want to
ask you because I is there a saying, a favorite
saying of yours, or a life mantra that you can
(29:44):
leave my listeners with a piece of Lindy's wisdom that
got you through this terrible miscarriage of justice. What's your
life motto?
Speaker 3 (30:00):
I've done about life motto, but I can. I hadn't
thought about for a long time that only you're saying.
Men reminded me that you had sent some questions through
which I think I read the first two, and that
might have been the first one. Then I quit reading.
(30:22):
What comes to mind is a saying from an old palm,
and I've forgotten who. Yeah, that my dad or my
granddead or both of them used to say that really
struck accord at the time. Life is mostly froth and bubble.
(30:45):
Two things stand like stone, Kindness in another's trouble, courage
in your own.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
I love that, Lindy. I'm going to write that down.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
And I used to put that in autograph books when
they were a thing and people asked me for an
autograph as a teenage. You're growing up. I thought that
meant a lot. And the story I read once that
(31:22):
Dad found somewhere and he and I were discussing it,
that I thought was good and I've thought about and
taught my kids. Out of the shadow into the sunshine,
and that is if you do something wrong or something
happens that can have consequences or whatever, admitted immediately that
(31:51):
you know, first chance you get and then get into
the sunshine. You're out of the shadow into the sunshine.
Get on with your life, get it done O. So true.
That takes away a lot of the guilt. You're like,
what if somebody finds out? What?
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Well, admit it, let it, yeah, and let it go
and you're out. And so you're right, you're out of
the shadow into the sunshine. How about music? Is there
a song that thumbs up Lindy Chamberlain Crater.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
One I learned in my twenties.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
That is.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
You're there, Yeah, I'm here. Oh, it just went the
fourth scene. Okay, what's the one that I learned? It
is not very well known, but it's a Christian song.
So send are You?
Speaker 2 (32:54):
So send are you?
Speaker 3 (32:56):
I don't know that.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
I have to look that one up. I'll find that, yes,
So send are You? That is Lindy, Lindy on the Heart.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
You used to sing that at some of the rallies
for me. They asked me one and I said, try
that one.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
I send. I'm going to write that down.
Speaker 3 (33:12):
I send and so send I you. And for a
modern one, the wind beneath my wings.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Oh love that, Lindy.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
That's beautiful. That's my Rick.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
Oh that's your Rick.
Speaker 3 (33:30):
Oh what a love story in this world? It's Rick.
And I wouldn't have got through this without God, who gave.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
Me wings sertingly dead Lindy. And I just want to say,
on behalf of Australia and to all those ignorant people
that I have that horde, that biggoted position of still
perhaps believing you're guilty. I just want to say I'm sorry,
because you know, I just feel like I need to
(34:03):
say that. On Behalf of all those idiots out there
to be really.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
Honest and be nice.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
So I'm saying it on their behalf because you know,
I hope they.
Speaker 3 (34:13):
Wouldn't want you to say it on their behalf. No
I know, but yeah, I send nothing ever happened to
them and they don't have to learn the hard way
not to judge. Yes, yeah, that's all.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
Thank you, Lindy, Thank you so much for joining me
on Pure Grit. And I send you lots of love
and lots of love to Rip and all the grandkids
and your all your kids too, and I hope you
get better and stronger soon you get out into the sunshine,
get out of the get out of the house now
and get some sun.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
Get on my back. I can see that I love
to have.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
I'd love to have a cup of tea with you
one day, maybe in the future.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
If you Where are you?
Speaker 2 (35:03):
I live at Alexandra Headland. On the subject, how's that?
Speaker 3 (35:09):
How is that from somewhere like Mont phil.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
Only like not even twenty probably twenty five minutes half
an hour.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
I go down there occasionally and they've got some nice
coffee shops. So let's let's do that.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
I'll organize through Rick yes, could win beneath your wings and.
Speaker 3 (35:32):
There is a fabulous place if you've never been. Secrets
on the Lake. Yes, never open on Monday, but it's beautiful.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
I've got a little bit of trivia for you, Lindy.
I did the voiceover for Secrets on the Lake.
Speaker 3 (35:49):
Years ago. Well, I hope they gave you some free
accommodation because they actually never stayed there. I've always put
that on my A list. But the restaurant's lovely.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
I'm going to meet you there. I'm going to meet
you there. I actually that's that's a little bit of trivia.
I did do a boy.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
You can go in and say, hey, I did this
one you Secrets on the Lake.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Thank you, Lindy, sending you lots of love. Thank you
so much for joining us on Pure Grit.
Speaker 3 (36:22):
Well it's been a pleasure.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
Well there you go. Thanks for listening to Pure Grit
with Paul McGrath. Now the web guy's been a very
busy boy. You can now visit the website pure grit
dot com dot au, search Pure Grip podcast on Facebook
and Instagram for the fun behind the scenes stuff. And
I was wondering why Paul had started wearing makeup. Turns
out all the chats are now on YouTube as well,
so make sure you give that a subscribe
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