Ever wondered about the hidden causes of homelessness? Join us as we unravel these with Joseph Jacques, co-founder, and director of Harmonic Humanity. An organization which is not just about providing immediate work for those living on the streets, but also about unfolding their potential through transformational education. Joseph, from his unique perspective, highlights the surprising connection between prenatal trauma and homelessness, addiction, and mental health issues. His insights stem from his extensive work with the Association of Pre- and Perinatal Psychology and are beautifully captured in his book, Legends of Creation.
Joseph’s extraordinary journey began with learning scuba diving at three, a seemingly unrelated experience that would become central to his understanding of the womb experience and birth trauma. Joseph shares unforgettable narratives from his work on the streets and his inspiring initiative of creating a workbook for the homeless, enabling them to realize they are their own heroes. His ambitious vision doesn’t stop here. Picture a future where a questionnaire could shed light on prenatal trauma experiences and a global study could link these experiences to homelessness. These are not just dreams for Joseph, but goals he is working diligently towards achieving.
His work is a testament to his unwavering dedication and belief in the power of love, connection, and education. From the concept of prenatal bonding to raising funds for his organization, Joseph is on a mission to change the narrative around homelessness. His work with Harmonic Humanity has already enabled homeless individuals to earn close to a half a million dollars through selling art and music. This is not your typical conversation about homelessness. It’s a deep dive into the transformative power of understanding and empathy, and the extraordinary impact one man can make. Join us as we explore this and more with Joseph Jacques.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
A warm welcome to Pushing Boundaries, a podcast
about pioneering research,breakthrough discoveries and
unconventional ideas.
I'm your host, dr Thomas RVerney, and, much to my delight,
my guest today is Mr Joseph Jax.
Have I pronounced thatcorrectly, jax?
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Yeah, I'm a Frenchman , thomas, okay, okay.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Okay, okay, bonjour.
Co-founder, director ofHarmonic Humanity and we'll talk
about that a little bit morelater an organization that has
provided immediate work forindividuals living on the street
.
It also teaches them that isharmonic humanity.
(00:49):
Teaches them the importance oftransformational education
through Joseph Campbell's modelof the hero's journey.
Welcome, joseph.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Thank you so much, thomas, and I wanted to start
the top of the show byacknowledging you, my friend.
I was in deep prayer Back.
I was 23 or 24 years old.
I was having some of my greatvisions and I was asking God,
the universe, please, please,steer me in the right direction
(01:21):
with all this wisdom, knowledge,intuition, message from the
universe that was coming throughme and I needed to be guided.
And I came across your work,the Secret Life of an Unborn
Child.
It changed my life.
You became my hero immediatelyand I realized that you have
(01:48):
become this silent guy, thisangel from afar, and you've
guided me.
You've guided me to the pointthat here I am talking to you
after 30 years of work and hardwork and research into the field
of both birth, psychology and,of course, the field of
humanitarian and altruism andhomelessness, and finding golden
(02:10):
thread between the two.
Well, thank you, my friend.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Thank you, you know those are very, very kind words
and you know it always makes mehappy to know that in some small
ways I have contributed to makethis a better world, which is
what I think all of us shouldstrive to do, right.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Well, you know, I don't know how you, where it
comes from, from here, the depthof you, but, boy, it has guided
me in my whole life and yourwords have guided me.
I am grateful for yourwillingness to play at such a
big level, at a global level,with your words and your ideas,
(02:50):
and I am humbled and I'mgrateful.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Well, thank you.
So let's talk about you.
So for 15 years you have servedthese homeless people right.
Listen to their stories and,from understanding your what I
have read about you, it is yourbelief that as much as 90% of
(03:13):
homelessness, addiction andmental illness has a common root
in burst trauma and thetransgenerational transfer of
wounds from mother fatherculture.
So could you tell me a littlebit more about this journey that
you have undertaken and theunderstandings that you have
reached?
In your own words, take as longas you like.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Sure, and thank you for that beautiful sandbox.
You know it starts.
I feel there's a big beginningto this and the beginning
becomes with me being hyperallyaware.
I started.
My dad taught me to scuba divewhen I was three.
(03:55):
Thomas scuba dive.
I was scuba diving at threeyears old.
My dad taught me to scuba dive.
My father started a scuba shop.
I always got to start it withmy dad because he's one of my
other heroes.
My dad started a scuba shop in1968, the year I was born in
Columbus Ohio and that's not alot of scuba diving in Columbus
(04:17):
Ohio.
He taught me to scuba dive atthree and I was sentient at four
, lucid dreaming at five.
The interesting thing about andI'll come back to this but he
taught me to scuba dive at threeis I was able to go back to the
womb through that, because thescuba diving is a very similar
(04:39):
you know the, the, the, theneutral buoyancy and the feeling
of weightlessness and there wasa remembering there, and so
this has really set the tone andthe patterning for for my
consciousness.
As I grew older, as I wasseeing the world, my worldview
fast forward.
I was teaching a class at littlegym, and little gym is little
(05:02):
kids, gymnastics.
They started at six months andthey go to 12 years old and it's
motor movement, simple motormovement.
I was teaching two and threeyear olds.
I was comfortable in that field.
That was wonderful for me Twoand three year olds.
I'm a big kid myself.
I know you're a big kid.
I could see, I could see it inyour smile and you know, there
there is this beauty that just,it just comes from the child's
(05:25):
eyes and one day it's a lovelyday to check out your exercise,
exercise in kids world.
The director, my best friend,came in and he said he said,
joseph, I need you to teach theinfant class.
And Thomas, let me just tellyou I was beyond.
I'm like I cannot.
If you put me in a class withthese infants, I will do a
terrible job.
It will not work.
The mothers will see I'm aphony.
(05:46):
It's not gonna work.
He put his hand on my shoulder.
I remember it like it wasyesterday.
He said, joseph, you are goingto shine.
And so I sat in this Circlewith these nine moms and these
beautiful nine months to six to16 month-year-old babies, and
you know how it is.
You look in their eyes andthere's the universe, staring
(06:08):
back at your you, and I wrote it, wrote about this, these little
godlings teaching me thesecrets of the universe.
And here I was and being taughtby them.
Right, and it was just somagical and I realized that this
was my path.
This was, this is a profoundsense of direction for me, and I
did that class for six years,thomas, six years.
(06:29):
I work with, with, with infants,and I started to realize
something.
I Noticed that there was anincrease in cognition.
Well, first of all, back up, Istarted to ask the parents.
I said well, what did you do inutero?
Because there was a significant, significant difference from
the children that had you Sometype of learning, your new to
(06:51):
row connection with the motherand the, as the ones that didn't
.
I mean, it was night and day,because the stimulus was the
same.
We, the room was filled withcolors and and and a little
parallel bars and Gymnastics,things, that they had the same
stimulus, but it was night andday, the difference in not only
cognition but physicaldevelopment.
And I asked the parents Well,what did you do?
(07:12):
And the mom's like well, youknow, we guessed around, we
talked to the talk to the infant, we did music and Mozart, and
we did all these wonderfulthings and and so and I watched
him, over a six year period oftime, Developed right from
sensory motor to pre-operationfrom.
I got to watch them go throughthe arc of of Piaget's process
(07:34):
of development and that was it,brother.
I was hooked.
I'm like, oh my god, I havesomething here and, not knowing
anything about you, not knowinganything about the world that
that was end up being Appa andand those that were doing this
profound work, but I had anintuition that this is something
that I was going to dedicatethe rest of my life to, and that
(07:58):
was the beginning.
That's where it all started.
And then, when it comes tohomelessness, that was years
later I I Went all over and Iwas talking to people about my
insights and the ideas and youknow, 30 years ago, brother,
there wasn't much listening forwhat we were talking about, and
so I really ran into a lot ofthese walls of people that just
(08:22):
wouldn't listen or didn't care,and I'm I was trying to explain
it and it was just discouraging.
My best friend in 2008 or 2007,who was an addict, who was
recovering addict now, he askedme if I wanted to start an
organization with him abouthelping the, the people that
(08:45):
that he was a part.
He was a part of this homelesshomeless population and addicted
, abused, traumatized, and hehealed himself from that.
And when he did, he said,joseph, will you help me
co-found this organizationworking with the homeless?
And I said, of course mybrother, of course I.
I see this.
(09:05):
And now there's a golden threadbetween both of them, and so I
Wanted the audience to kind ofgo on that journey with me,
because there is that goldenthread that them the umbilical
that connects homelessness andprenatal.
And while I was on the streets,I Will, I did, I've done
(09:26):
hundreds, if not thousands, ofoutreach walks, just going to
the streets, meeting thehomeless, where they're at,
providing food and clothing.
And hey, I love you, brother,you're gonna make it through
this.
You know, let's give you someresources, let's give you a job
and let's teach youtransformational education.
And that is based on a book Iput together, a intersubjective
(09:48):
work booklet called the hero'sgamebook, which teaches the
homeless individuals thatthey're they're not a victim of
their story, Thomas, they'rereally what makes their story
great, they're the hero of thestory.
So really, to flip that scriptfor this demographic was a big
deal.
And so, while I was on thestreet, I was, I would ask them
well, how was your childhoodlike?
How, how was that?
(10:09):
What happened?
Because I was just interested.
I was there, I was, I was, I'm asocial scientist, I've got to
do that work.
I'm just, you know, I'm asking.
And it wasn't even.
It wasn't even eight, ninetimes out of ten man, it's ten,
it is ten out of ten that thatthere there was trauma, there
was a significant wounding and,like God born mate reminds us,
(10:34):
he said if you don't address thewound and its source, then you
will suffer its evolution.
And here I was working with theevolution of that, and I know
it's pretty bold to say 90%.
I say that because of Of mywork on the streets, but I say
that because of the profoundInaction that the homeless had
(11:01):
with their, with their trauma,trauma, traumatized youth.
Everything that aces talksabout, everything that prams
gets into pregnancy, riskassessment, monitoring systems,
systems that at least monitorthese types of of anomalies that
happen from abuse or adversechildhood experiences.
So I have I, I, as you willknow, I put together a book, an
(11:28):
intersubjective workbook.
It called legends of creationand and, and it's a workbooklet
that starts nine months beforeconception and goes nine months
in utero, to address just that.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
So you say 90%, right , and you did say that that was
kind of bold.
It is bold, but my question iswhat is your evidence for that?
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Well, you know, boy, of course, reading your work,
reading being in direct dialoguewith David B Chamberlain,
working with APA, theAssociation of Predatal and
Paranatal Psychology, andtalking to Renee VandeCard, his
wife, kristen, of PredatalUniversity just so many things
(12:20):
aimed at and reading the work,of course, gabor Maté and Bruce
Lipton just so many things aimedthat there was a direct
connection, absolute, undeniable, direct connection with the
mental state, with the traumathat was handed down, with those
(12:40):
that had been beaten, bulliedand bruised by their culture and
by their either their mother ortheir father.
And to really get to the coreroot of that was something I was
interested in.
So I guess it's just a boldstatement and one that I will
spend the rest of my lifesolving, and I don't want to
(13:03):
upset your audience by any meansin saying something so bold.
Maybe it's a littleforeshadowing on my part to say
that this is something thatmaybe this is mine to do and
that, if I can bring that tolight, if I can, through the
work that I have created in theworld, through legends of
creation and my correspondencewith you and others, that we can
(13:25):
, as a collective family, bringlight to this horrible situation
and literally bring 100%solution or reduce homelessness
and addiction and mental illnessby 50% to 60%, at least by the
time I go.
So that would be cool OK.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
OK, listen, I'm not concerned about upsetting my
audience.
I'm not concerned aboutupsetting anybody.
I'm just interested in thetruth.
And so I'm asking, because I'vealways tried to put
pre-imperial psychology on asolid scientific foundation.
(14:06):
That's what I've always beeninterested in for the last 40
years, since I wrote the SecretLife of the Unborn Child.
So I take it from what you havetold me that your conclusion is
based on talking to thesehomeless people right, talking
(14:28):
to them.
Now, when you talk to them, howmany of them were able to tell
you that their pregnancies, inother words, when they were in
the womb of their mothers thattheir pregnancies were in some
ways traumatic?
That's what I want to know.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
And that's a great question.
It was difficult to make itthat far Because of their mental
illness, because of theirsituations, because of their
addictions.
It was very difficult to get tothat, yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
I understand that Very difficult.
Ok, so, as you are continuingto work with these people, right
, and we'll talk about yourlong-term aims, which are even
more ambitious than what youhave done so far Would it be
possible perhaps for you in thefuture to perhaps create a
(15:34):
questionnaire that everybodywould answer and that at least
would give us some statisticalanswers to the question of
trauma, define trauma and thenask about it in a specific
questionnaire kind of a way,without leading the witness,
(15:57):
without saying have you had atraumatic pregnancy?
Ok, just say what kind of apregnancy did you have?
How would you describe yourpregnancy?
Ok, not asking did your motherbeat you?
Ok, so if you would beinterested in doing that, then I
(16:18):
think that we could put yourwork also into a much more solid
research context, and thatwould be good for science and
for pre-imperial psychology andin terms of doing more good for
future generations.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
That is awesome and I welcome that.
My friend, I sent you a papercalled the Bio-Psycho-Social
Healing Project, where I've beenin conversations with Sandra,
who is the former president ofAPA, and, of course, Ray Lean,
who's the current president, andothers who see the benefit of
(17:04):
putting together a national oreven global study that can
connect the two and really sheda lot of light on this through
what you, the questionnaire andsome of the ideas that you're
speaking into, because I feelthat if we can do that, we can
step one, we can put one footcloser to really bringing a lot
(17:25):
of awareness in a scientificmanner, in a more of an
empirical way, and I would lovethat, you know.
I think it's awesome and I'mgrateful.
That sounds like a great idea.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Have you thought of coming to our next conference in
Denver in October?
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Yeah, I thought about it.
I'm financially struggling.
I harmonic humanity.
We have not done well with ourfundraisers ever since COVID.
We've been kind of handed ourbutts.
So I'm here in Ohio taking careof my 80-year-old dad and doing
some caregiving and so I'mthinking about the next moves.
(18:06):
And you know, that whole ideabetween career and survival and
running a nonprofit is not, youknow, not for the faint of
hearts man, because you've gotto always put yourself out there
.
And homelessness is, you know,it's not, it struggles because
it's everybody's so tired oftalking about that narrative.
(18:29):
Unless we get to the rootunless we get to, you know,
having the conversation aboutwhat happens before conception
and what happens in utero, thenI feel then we can have a real
in-depth conversation abouthomelessness and mental illness
and an addiction.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
Yes, have you tried to write grants asking for
grants from various foundations?
Speaker 2 (18:58):
I have not.
But right now what I've got isI've got a wonderful endorsement
from Bruce Lipton on my bookand I've got, of course, this
wonderful podcast with you.
I'm gaining validity, claimsfor the work and putting
individuals around it, like GeneHouston, who gave me a
wonderful forward from my book,and Bruce Lipton and others who
(19:22):
see the value in this outrageousidea, this unreasonable
position.
But you know what, man, I'mexcited and I know I'm at the
beginning and I know that I'vegot the rest of my life to go to
work towards this.
And, boy, like you said, if Ican be a drop in the ocean of
(19:43):
healing and restoring that whichhas been, you know, denied and
separated and ripped apart, boy,what a wonderful life that
would be Well perhaps by way ofthis podcast, which will be also
on YouTube, so it will be bothaudio and visual, perhaps we can
(20:03):
get some more support for you.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
But let me just continue with a few more
questions.
So you have a curriculum forthe child in the womb, I believe
, right A nine months classdesigned by parents or for
parents.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
That's right.
The Children's of Creation is afather's role in pregnancy and
mother's journey in becoming,and that starts nine months
before conception and goes ninemonths in utero.
So we can, a heal theintergenerational wound and, b
talk about the genius.
There's the wound and the gift,or archetypal pairings.
So we don't want to just, youknow, talk about the wound, the
(20:40):
wound, the wound.
There is a genius that wants tocome forward as well.
So, and you had asked, well,what's the significance of the
nine months?
What do you ask?
That to me?
And you know, the best that Icould come up with was the
intuition of the nine months inthe womb, and so I thought that
that happens biologically,psychologically, even socially.
(21:01):
So I thought, well, I wastrying to find how many months
it would take to have the motherand father get clear about
their wound and their giftbefore conception.
Because right now, thomas, whatwe don't have, what I'm not
seeing right now, is anintersubjective work booklet
that allows a psychologist andpsychotherapist to go back and
(21:23):
say, well, what was happening onthe second month of the, on the
third week of that, on Tuesday,you could go to Legends of
Creation and you could actuallyread the entry that the mother
and the father put in about whatthey were thinking and doing
and feeling as well at thatparticular time.
And so I feel that there is a,there is an importance, an
(21:46):
umbilical that needs to happen,and again, the healing of the
wound, the amplification ofgenius, the before conception,
and then when the child isconceived, then the mother and
the father and the coach, thelife coach, the coach of Legends
of Creation helped the motherand the father design a learning
and utero program for the childbased on you know, very
(22:12):
possibly the mother was a famouspianist and the father was a
great painter and so they wantto cultivate that.
So they actually designed thelearning and utero program with
the help of the coach.
So the 18 month class is isjust that it's the nine months
of preparing, of healing thoseintergenerational wounds, and
(22:32):
then an amplifying the geniuses,or talking about the geniuses,
and then, after conception, thenreally focusing on the bond of
the mother and the father andthe pre-nate you mentioned
pianist in your bio.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
I believe you said that you were a professional
pianist, songwriter and singer.
Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Yes, yes, sir, yes sir.
I I taught myself how to playwhen I was 18 and I've been
playing ever since.
And it's just.
I play every Friday from mycommunity here in Columbus Ohio.
I wheel out my piano.
I'll send you a little video.
I wheel out my big piano and Iinvite the community to come and
I play for the community everyFriday.
Have you got?
Speaker 1 (23:14):
a piano behind you somewhere in your office.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
No, no, but I have a.
I have a piano in my dad'sgarage and anytime, if you would
like I can, I can perform alittle show for your audience
and it's my music's.
A little bit like GeorgeWinston.
I'm not as good as GeorgeGeorge is a master, of course
but I've been playing for a longtime.
My music is very soundtrack-ish, it's very movie-like, it's
(23:37):
like very emotional and I just Idon't know what I would do
without music.
It's definitely guided me forsure.
Well, can we do that some othertime?
For sure I would love that.
Yeah, and I've got some songs.
You know I I'm a humanitarian,so all my songs are about
healing and helping and growingand being challenged and and
overcoming the adversities.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
And could you, could you give us a little preview?
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Oh, man, you're on this spot.
Hold on for a second.
Hold on, here we go.
Here we go.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Okay, hey, wonderful, he's bringing out his guitar,
lovely.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Thomas, I love you, bro.
You're awesome.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Thank you, so are you .
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Okay, we're rocking man.
You asked for it, here we go.
That's right, Okay.
This song is called Be LovePeople and it was basically
about the fact that you know,that's what we get to aspire to.
I call myself a neomethologistand in my architecture, my
(24:53):
social architecture, Iforeshadow the world's noon, and
this song is called Be LovePeople.
Can you hear it?
I can hear it.
Here we go.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
A little train.
Be Love People.
Now is the town you got to findyour truth and see the sign.
Travel to the heart, from thehead to the greek food and from
the greek food.
Hear the call From a leaderinside.
Our question is true and ourtruth is wide and children will
(25:27):
follow.
See how you be A rising tide ofsolvents.
See the captain.
See the captain deep inside.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
I don't hear the guitar.
I don't hear the guitar.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
Oh, no, no, I don't know how to do that.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
Oh, is it a microphone?
That's better, that's better.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
I'll do that first one more time.
Here we go.
Ok, be Love People.
Now is the town you got to findyour truth and see the sign.
Travel to the heart, from thehead to the greek food and from
the greek food, hear the callFrom a leader inside.
Our question is true and ourtruth is wide, and children will
(26:20):
follow.
See how you be A rising tide ofsolvents see the captain.
That's right, thomas, see thecaptain deep inside.
See the people, see the people,see the people, see the people.
(26:49):
I said, I said feel love.
Feel love, feel love, feel love.
Now is the time.
You got to find your truth.
You got to see the sign.
Travel to the heart, from thehead to the greek food and from
the greek food hear the callFrom a leader inside.
Our question is true and ourtruth is wide and children will
(27:12):
follow.
See how you be All right.
See the captain.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
See the captain.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
See the captain deep inside.
Everybody sing.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Thank you, thank you, thank you very much.
Well, we'll do it better nexttime.
That sounds great.
The microphone didn't quitepick it up, but thank you for
doing this, oh you're welcome.
So my question is was thereanything?
Was there anything, Joseph, inyour background that anything
contributed to your interest inthis whole subject of bus and
(27:56):
womb life and street people?
Speaker 2 (28:04):
You know, I just I really felt called to the
humanitarian archetype.
I've just felt drawn to servepeople and getting and playing a
role of serving the homelessand playing a role towards
helping those that are on thestreets.
I'm like, well, if I'm going toreduce home, if I'm going to
(28:25):
really play a significant role,that means I'm going to get to
the core root and, like our goodfriend, our late and great
David B Chamberlain wrote,emrology, properly understood,
can contribute to theintellectual revolution of how
we see ourselves as human beings.
So that really resonated withme and stuck with me in the work
(28:49):
of Piaget.
And if I'm going to make asignificant shift on this planet
in my time, in taking the workof your work and everybody
else's work and all my mentorsand put it all together in this
beautiful tapestry of love andconnection and community and the
rest of my life doing it that'smy goal Is to weave all those
(29:13):
things together and to make theworld a better place, as sappy
as that sound, Sounds fine.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
So tell me, was there ever a homeless person that
really touched your heart?
I mean, is there one homelessperson that over the last 15
years kind of stands out in yourmind as really affecting you
deeply emotionally?
Speaker 2 (29:42):
Yeah, that would be my best friend, aj Lovewinds.
He was a producer director inHollywood, the coolest guy in
the room, just the coolest guystill is the coolest guy and
Hollywood took him down.
The drugs, the addiction tookhim down and he was pushing a
(30:02):
shopping cart around LA andSeattle and San Francisco and
highly addicted he.
I would come to him with allthese transformational ideas and
quotes and Joseph Campbell andthis and that, and Tony Robbins
and I would.
I would be that that positivityin his life and I would give
(30:22):
him, you know, these greatquotes about you can do it, you
can transform your life, youknow, and, and so we would have
these conversations, knowingthat he could in this life, the
next day, you know, throughaddiction and through overdosing
and and it was just scary, itwas scary for me, it was very
scary and I said, listen,brother.
I said I, I would love to workwith you, I would love to do
(30:43):
something with you Once you'reclean and whole and you feel
complete with that particularjourney, I'd love to work with
you.
And he, he called me from asoup kitchen one day and he said
Joseph.
He said I, I'm in clean.
For a year he said I've beenbringing musicians to a soup
kitchen and and the musiciansthat we're singing, they were
(31:05):
singing about love and joy andhope and possibility and renewal
and these themes, and he said Inoticed something.
He said I noticed that themusic and consciousness from the
music was just as nutritious asthe food that they were serving
, and I want to be the help thatI wish that I had on the
streets.
Will you co found and startharmonic humanity with me?
(31:29):
And I said, of course, and youdid, and we did, and we've,
we've, we created, we createmusic compilation albums and we
invite musicians, musicians tocome and add their music to the
albums.
Our latest album is called hero.
(31:50):
We have an album featuringJason Maraz, michael franti,
maroon five and Sarah McLachlan,so we got some of the top
musicians in the world to be onour on our album, for Grammy
award winning artists to be onour album.
And the homeless, through ourprogram, since 2009, have made
for themselves close to a half amillion dollars selling,
(32:12):
selling art and music on thestreets for themselves.
And here this is called the.
It's called the heroes gamebook.
It's a little bit, it's how youcan't see it that well.
But, anyway, yeah, it's, it's athis is an inter subjective work
booklet that holds, like wewere talking about earlier,
holds the individual, in supportof them, moving from
(32:35):
disempowerment to empowerment byusing the heroes journey and
guiding them through the stagesof the hero journey to realize
their full potential.
And that's really excitingbecause we really, you know, we
really want to let go of thosethings that no longer serve that
individual and start to bringin the things that do.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Are your?
Are your parents still alive?
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Yeah, my dad's still alive, my mom's still alive and
you know I love them so much.
They've really guided metowards such a beautiful life.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
So is your.
Is your dad still looking forgold?
Speaker 2 (33:15):
Yeah, it is his own way.
He was such an adventure and hewas such a.
He inspired me to do somethingcompletely unreasonable, and
starting a scuba shop in Ohio in1968 was a pretty radical move,
but he made a whole career outof it and I traveled with him
(33:37):
All over the world, becausethere's no scuba diving here in
Columbus, ohio, so you know theBahamas and the Caribbean and
the Red Sea and and justdifferent places.
I was able to go with him onsome of those trips and
experience the scuba diving anddiving in different places all
over the world and so it wassuch an adventurous life and
I've I've led that kind ofadventurous life so far.
(33:58):
I'm able to go and go to placesand see people and, and you know
, I just I really appreciate theadventure of what I've done
with harmonic community becauseit, thomas, it's humbled me, it
makes me grateful for lifeworking with individuals that
are in adversity.
It really it has you present tohow precious and beautiful life
(34:28):
is, and I say this that some ofthe homeless that I've worked
with have taught me humility andgratitude like I can.
I can, I can.
It's just it's reason I keepdoing it because I'm humbled by
their level of gratitude thatthey have and they have nothing.
Do you have children?
(34:49):
I do not.
You, don't.
I'm, I'm always in prayer andI've got my spirit children,
aliyah, jack and the vesica, whoare keeping their eyes open for
my, for mom, and so I say,please, my prayers, please
create the situations ofcircumstances, the events and
(35:09):
the relationships that allow meto meet mom and I.
I would love your support inthat.
So I pray to my spirit childrenand and and know that when I do
meet mom, that I'm, that I'mready to go, that I've done my
homework and and I will be thebest, best father I can possibly
(35:30):
be.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
If, if you could have dinner with any three people,
dead or alive, who would it be?
Speaker 2 (35:39):
Oh my gosh.
Oh, you're good, you're good.
I like these questions.
I would David B, because he wassuch an angel.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
David Chamberlain.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, he was awesome.
I don't know if I told you this, but we knew each other for 15
years.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
No, no, I didn't know that.
I didn't know that.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
Yeah, he was.
I sent him my paper when I wasabout 26.
It was the paper that wasbasically about all of this that
I've evolved into now and webecame real good friends.
I'd call Donna.
Donna would be like David.
David would come in and we haveconversations on Saturday and
(36:28):
he actually would send mechapters of his book.
Oh gosh, it was Windows to theWomb.
He said, joseph, you mind if Isend you some chapters of my
book?
I'm like, oh my gosh, I'd lovethat.
So he'd send me chaptersWindows to the Womb and I would
review them and then we wouldjust talk about them.
You know, like what's the?
You know, it was just awesome.
(36:50):
So David B would be one of them, gene Houston, because she's
such a.
I just love her energy.
And who would be the otherperson?
Who I would?
And Joseph Campbell, that wouldbe.
That would be a wonderfultrilogy of myth.
Speaker 1 (37:16):
That would be interesting.
How did you ever sort of getinto Joseph Campbell?
It's so different from theothers that you have mentioned.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
Well, I love, like I said, I call myself a
neomethologist and I host socialtheater, I teach social theater
and I offer that to thecommunity.
And social theater is reallythe core of social theater is
the power of expression.
And so in this power ofexpression and in, through this,
(37:48):
the storytelling elements,joseph, really you know, that
was it for me that really got mecentered towards the death,
birth and rebirth, and I feelthat if we are going to heal, we
have to really let that part ofculture die so we can be reborn
(38:11):
again, because we have a lot ofthings that are playing
themselves out without propertransformational technologies.
And if we have a rhythmictransformation in our culture
and our society, then we havethe ability to shed our skin or
the crab molds or the spider,you know molds.
Then we can embrace that partof ourselves that is new and
(38:37):
whole and born again in a sense.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
What is the best advice you ever received?
Speaker 2 (38:45):
Best advice I ever received.
Speaker 3 (38:51):
Boy, best advice I ever received.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
Where we end up on life's journey depends upon the
map we carry with us, and thatwas Gene Houston.
And where we end up on life'sjourney depends upon the map we
carry with us.
Also, another one is she saidthe patterns of an emerging
psychology are offered in theknowing that as we go inward we
(39:20):
can access the depth structuresof our being and build bridges
to the great archetypal realms,where and why the dynamic
designs that form and reform ourreality.
That was from Gene Houston aswell.
So those are two quotes that Ijust love because that sacred
psychology speaks to me andhaving a map is key.
(39:42):
But also, Gene says, becauseshe's such a beautiful soul.
She says two questions.
You want to ask yourself whatmap are you using?
And the other question is whatwas the story that influenced
you to use that map?
Speaker 1 (39:56):
And what was the story that influenced your map?
Speaker 2 (40:00):
It was love, it was community, it was healing.
To heal means to make whole.
So I was.
I love that, and so my guide islove, unconditional love, unity
and healing and helping othersto find their empowerment and to
(40:20):
help them transform and to keeptransforming.
We're always transforming, soI'm excited about that message
and I've seen it work.
Tom, so many times over andover again.
To that community, that's just.
That is beaten up by life.
Speaker 1 (40:37):
Did you have I don't know how to put this tactfully
did you have any like formal,formal university education?
Speaker 2 (40:47):
No, none.
Earth, Earth 2.0, life 2.0 and2.2, 2.3.
You know, it's just, I'vealways been hyperly aware and
I've always been very good atchopping wood and carrying water
as doing the work and makingsure that when it came time to
(41:09):
it, I could be in a conversationwith somebody like you as a
very heightened intellectual wayof being, and we could have a
conversation, because that hasbeen probably the greatest joy
of my life is getting inconversation with individuals
like you.
And you know what you talkedabout earlier is like, hey, we
can do this, and you know you'remy mentor, so you're like you
(41:32):
push me over there, push me overhere, you can kind of see the.
You can see I'm kind of on theedge of that, but you're wanting
to bring me to the center of itand I want to get there as well
.
And even in the book Legends ofCreation, the nine months before
conception, I'm askingindividuals, culture or creators
like you if you want to add atwo-page exercise that could
(41:55):
some exercise that you would add, that would inform the mother
and the father before conception.
What would that exercise be?
And so I'm wanting to make thebook an anthology of writings,
because I'm not the intellectualexpert on all of it.
My God, I'll never know all ofit.
But I can at least ask theright questions that can put
them on the path, and I canbring and invite people in to
(42:18):
make the book an open sourceanthology of writing.
So there'll be an exercise fromyou, if you know, if you're, if
you're excited about that, anexercise from Gene Houston, an
exercise from Bruce Linton, youknow.
So.
It's a group of writings thatwill shape the awareness of the
mother and the father.
So they have all of thedistinction and tools and the
(42:40):
skills and the philosophies whenthey step in to playing that
sacred spiritual role of beingparents.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
Well, I just wanted I don't know whether you know of
my most recent book, theEmbodied Mind.
Ah, you have it.
God bless you, good man, goodman, good man, good man, I am
(43:16):
involved in, I've been invitedat, a very large conference next
year in the Czech Republic, inPrague probably, and they are
doing a very large conference ontrauma and I'm going to
(43:37):
recommend them that they inviteyou.
Is that okay with you?
Speaker 2 (43:44):
My friend.
That would be the coolest thingI could ever imagine.
Speaker 1 (43:48):
Because I tell you honestly, no bullshit I'm very
impressed by your work, very,very impressed.
I think that you're doing thekind of work that scientists
don't do, because they live inthese ivory towers and you are
(44:11):
doing the hard work.
You are doing the work on thestreet, which is where it has to
be done.
Speaker 2 (44:18):
Oh man, I got goosebumps on goosebumps, my
friend.
I just you know, when I pickedup your book, man, I got to
acknowledge you again.
I'm sorry.
I just got to keep doing itbecause you're in the room and I
got to do it.
You changed my life, buddy.
(44:40):
I was praying, I was praying, Iwas praying and there you were.
And when I read the Secret Lifeof Menomorch, I only imagine
this is how it is for a lot ofpeople.
I mean, maybe not.
Listen I just, I am.
I see it, I felt you, I feltyour words, I felt the power, I
felt the intuition, I felt itall.
And from that book I dedicate,I said I'm dedicating my life to
(45:05):
this.
And here I am, you know, andit's just, it's very exciting,
and I will always remain ahumanitarian.
I'm not sure how much longer Iwill go with harmonic humanity,
because I would like giving ajob to the homeless and teaching
the homeless.
Transformational education isabsolutely essential and I think
that it should continue.
(45:26):
But me, as a director, I'mthinking of stepping down and
then putting myself full timeinto the legends of creation so
I can say in 20 years or evenafter I'm dead that this work
has, has, has done what it'ssupposed to do, and that is to
alleviate, if not 90%, 80%, 70%,60%.
(45:48):
I know it's unreasonable, butI'd like to shoot for the stars
and I want others to see, toshoot the stars with me and say
we can end, we can get away fromthis polarity consciousness, we
can get away from this redversus blue team consciousness
and we can get into the fabricof a moral imagination and we
can start to tell a new story ofa world in transition, this
(46:10):
story based strategy, of thisgreat mythos of how we start
from the beginning and how webring love and connection and
community to this beautiful work, and how the last piece of this
, last piece of this, thomas, isa lot of billions and billions
and billions of dollars aregoing to the homeless.
(46:32):
Through this work, and maybethrough this study that we're
talking about, perhaps we canhave some of those hundreds of
millions go to prenatal, likeApple, I told Sandra when I
first met her.
I said, sandra, my job is tofigure out how we're going to
bring millions and millions andmillions of dollars to you, and
(46:53):
if we can do that through saying, hey, the homeless situation is
great, but let's shift theconversation to the core root,
which is preconception,education and prenatal bonding,
and let's funnel hundreds ofmillions into that, if that can
be one of the outcomes of thiswork, boy, I would be so excited
(47:15):
and I'd feel like Santa Claus.
Speaker 1 (47:18):
Well, that's great, like you are really doing the
heavy lifting, and I want torecognize that, I respect it and
I want to honor it.
So, my friend, you are doing avery, very important job and
let's stay in touch.
I will.
(47:38):
I will recommend that youparticipate both in the Denver
Denver Conference, the UpperConference, and the one in
Prague, because we need peoplewho are doing the work, you know
, not just the intellectual work, which I am good at, yes, and
(47:59):
it's hard.
It's, you know, like the lastbook that you have shown took me
seven years, seven years ofhard work, you know.
So my work is difficult too,but it's different, it's
different and we need both.
We need people like you and weneed people like me, right?
Speaker 2 (48:23):
Yes, my God.
Well, you know, and if my dreamis to work with people like you
and to move forward, and if Ikeep doing my homework and I
keep showing up, and we keepshowing up, we can make the
world a better place, and that'sthe goal is to, you know, to
serve others.
(48:43):
So we can.
We become greater expressionsof ourselves when we serve
others.
I feel.
Speaker 1 (48:50):
We can do it and we must do it, because the world
actually is in pretty bad shaperight now.
Speaker 2 (48:56):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:57):
Yeah.
So my friend, my friend, weneed to come to an end here.
This broadcast will be live, asthey say, in two weeks time.
Okay, so I will let you knowwhen it's on and I'll send you
all the links and you can use itany way, which way you want.
Speaker 2 (49:18):
Thank you, Thank you very much, and I'll leave you
with this quote Okay, it's byDerek Wolcott.
He said the time will come withelation.
You will greet yourself.
You will greet yourself in yourown door and in your own mirror
and each will smile at theother's welcome and say sit here
, eat.
You will love again thestranger that was once yourself.
(49:40):
Give wine, give bread, sit andfeast on your own life.
Speaker 1 (49:46):
Amen, take care and good luck, and we shall meet
again, I hope.
Thanks, thomas, have abeautiful night you too.
Bye.
A warm welcome to Pushing Boundaries, a podcast
about pioneering research,breakthrough discoveries and
unconventional ideas.
I'm your host, dr Thomas RVerney, and, much to my delight,
my guest today is Mr Joseph Jax.
Have I pronounced thatcorrectly, jax?
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Yeah, I'm a Frenchman , thomas, okay, okay.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Okay, okay, bonjour.
Co-founder, director ofHarmonic Humanity and we'll talk
about that a little bit morelater an organization that has
provided immediate work forindividuals living on the street
.
It also teaches them that isharmonic humanity.
(00:49):
Teaches them the importance oftransformational education
through Joseph Campbell's modelof the hero's journey.
Welcome, joseph.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Thank you so much, thomas, and I wanted to start
the top of the show byacknowledging you, my friend.
I was in deep prayer Back.
I was 23 or 24 years old.
I was having some of my greatvisions and I was asking God,
the universe, please, please,steer me in the right direction
(01:21):
with all this wisdom, knowledge,intuition, message from the
universe that was coming throughme and I needed to be guided.
And I came across your work,the Secret Life of an Unborn
Child.
It changed my life.
You became my hero immediatelyand I realized that you have
(01:48):
become this silent guy, thisangel from afar, and you've
guided me.
You've guided me to the pointthat here I am talking to you
after 30 years of work and hardwork and research into the field
of both birth, psychology and,of course, the field of
humanitarian and altruism andhomelessness, and finding golden
(02:10):
thread between the two.
Well, thank you, my friend.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Thank you, you know those are very, very kind words
and you know it always makes mehappy to know that in some small
ways I have contributed to makethis a better world, which is
what I think all of us shouldstrive to do, right.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Well, you know, I don't know how you, where it
comes from, from here, the depthof you, but, boy, it has guided
me in my whole life and yourwords have guided me.
I am grateful for yourwillingness to play at such a
big level, at a global level,with your words and your ideas,
(02:50):
and I am humbled and I'mgrateful.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Well, thank you.
So let's talk about you.
So for 15 years you have servedthese homeless people right.
Listen to their stories and,from understanding your what I
have read about you, it is yourbelief that as much as 90% of
(03:13):
homelessness, addiction andmental illness has a common root
in burst trauma and thetransgenerational transfer of
wounds from mother fatherculture.
So could you tell me a littlebit more about this journey that
you have undertaken and theunderstandings that you have
reached?
In your own words, take as longas you like.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Sure, and thank you for that beautiful sandbox.
You know it starts.
I feel there's a big beginningto this and the beginning
becomes with me being hyperallyaware.
I started.
My dad taught me to scuba divewhen I was three.
(03:55):
Thomas scuba dive.
I was scuba diving at threeyears old.
My dad taught me to scuba dive.
My father started a scuba shop.
I always got to start it withmy dad because he's one of my
other heroes.
My dad started a scuba shop in1968, the year I was born in
Columbus Ohio and that's not alot of scuba diving in Columbus
(04:17):
Ohio.
He taught me to scuba dive atthree and I was sentient at four
, lucid dreaming at five.
The interesting thing about andI'll come back to this but he
taught me to scuba dive at threeis I was able to go back to the
womb through that, because thescuba diving is a very similar
(04:39):
you know the, the, the, theneutral buoyancy and the feeling
of weightlessness and there wasa remembering there, and so
this has really set the tone andthe patterning for for my
consciousness.
As I grew older, as I wasseeing the world, my worldview
fast forward.
I was teaching a class at littlegym, and little gym is little
(05:02):
kids, gymnastics.
They started at six months andthey go to 12 years old and it's
motor movement, simple motormovement.
I was teaching two and threeyear olds.
I was comfortable in that field.
That was wonderful for me Twoand three year olds.
I'm a big kid myself.
I know you're a big kid.
I could see, I could see it inyour smile and you know, there
there is this beauty that just,it just comes from the child's
(05:25):
eyes and one day it's a lovelyday to check out your exercise,
exercise in kids world.
The director, my best friend,came in and he said he said,
joseph, I need you to teach theinfant class.
And Thomas, let me just tellyou I was beyond.
I'm like I cannot.
If you put me in a class withthese infants, I will do a
terrible job.
It will not work.
The mothers will see I'm aphony.
(05:46):
It's not gonna work.
He put his hand on my shoulder.
I remember it like it wasyesterday.
He said, joseph, you are goingto shine.
And so I sat in this Circlewith these nine moms and these
beautiful nine months to six to16 month-year-old babies, and
you know how it is.
You look in their eyes andthere's the universe, staring
(06:08):
back at your you, and I wrote it, wrote about this, these little
godlings teaching me thesecrets of the universe.
And here I was and being taughtby them.
Right, and it was just somagical and I realized that this
was my path.
This was, this is a profoundsense of direction for me, and I
did that class for six years,thomas, six years.
(06:29):
I work with, with, with infants,and I started to realize
something.
I Noticed that there was anincrease in cognition.
Well, first of all, back up, Istarted to ask the parents.
I said well, what did you do inutero?
Because there was a significant, significant difference from
the children that had you Sometype of learning, your new to
(06:51):
row connection with the motherand the, as the ones that didn't
.
I mean, it was night and day,because the stimulus was the
same.
We, the room was filled withcolors and and and a little
parallel bars and Gymnastics,things, that they had the same
stimulus, but it was night andday, the difference in not only
cognition but physicaldevelopment.
And I asked the parents Well,what did you do?
(07:12):
And the mom's like well, youknow, we guessed around, we
talked to the talk to the infant, we did music and Mozart, and
we did all these wonderfulthings and and so and I watched
him, over a six year period oftime, Developed right from
sensory motor to pre-operationfrom.
I got to watch them go throughthe arc of of Piaget's process
(07:34):
of development and that was it,brother.
I was hooked.
I'm like, oh my god, I havesomething here and, not knowing
anything about you, not knowinganything about the world that
that was end up being Appa andand those that were doing this
profound work, but I had anintuition that this is something
that I was going to dedicatethe rest of my life to, and that
(07:58):
was the beginning.
That's where it all started.
And then, when it comes tohomelessness, that was years
later I I Went all over and Iwas talking to people about my
insights and the ideas and youknow, 30 years ago, brother,
there wasn't much listening forwhat we were talking about, and
so I really ran into a lot ofthese walls of people that just
(08:22):
wouldn't listen or didn't care,and I'm I was trying to explain
it and it was just discouraging.
My best friend in 2008 or 2007,who was an addict, who was
recovering addict now, he askedme if I wanted to start an
organization with him abouthelping the, the people that
(08:45):
that he was a part.
He was a part of this homelesshomeless population and addicted
, abused, traumatized, and hehealed himself from that.
And when he did, he said,joseph, will you help me
co-found this organizationworking with the homeless?
And I said, of course mybrother, of course I.
I see this.
(09:05):
And now there's a golden threadbetween both of them, and so I
Wanted the audience to kind ofgo on that journey with me,
because there is that goldenthread that them the umbilical
that connects homelessness andprenatal.
And while I was on the streets,I Will, I did, I've done
(09:26):
hundreds, if not thousands, ofoutreach walks, just going to
the streets, meeting thehomeless, where they're at,
providing food and clothing.
And hey, I love you, brother,you're gonna make it through
this.
You know, let's give you someresources, let's give you a job
and let's teach youtransformational education.
And that is based on a book Iput together, a intersubjective
(09:48):
work booklet called the hero'sgamebook, which teaches the
homeless individuals thatthey're they're not a victim of
their story, Thomas, they'rereally what makes their story
great, they're the hero of thestory.
So really, to flip that scriptfor this demographic was a big
deal.
And so, while I was on thestreet, I was, I would ask them
well, how was your childhoodlike?
How, how was that?
(10:09):
What happened?
Because I was just interested.
I was there, I was, I was, I'm asocial scientist, I've got to
do that work.
I'm just, you know, I'm asking.
And it wasn't even.
It wasn't even eight, ninetimes out of ten man, it's ten,
it is ten out of ten that thatthere there was trauma, there
was a significant wounding and,like God born mate reminds us,
(10:34):
he said if you don't address thewound and its source, then you
will suffer its evolution.
And here I was working with theevolution of that, and I know
it's pretty bold to say 90%.
I say that because of Of mywork on the streets, but I say
that because of the profoundInaction that the homeless had
(11:01):
with their, with their trauma,trauma, traumatized youth.
Everything that aces talksabout, everything that prams
gets into pregnancy, riskassessment, monitoring systems,
systems that at least monitorthese types of of anomalies that
happen from abuse or adversechildhood experiences.
So I have I, I, as you willknow, I put together a book, an
(11:28):
intersubjective workbook.
It called legends of creationand and, and it's a workbooklet
that starts nine months beforeconception and goes nine months
in utero, to address just that.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
So you say 90%, right , and you did say that that was
kind of bold.
It is bold, but my question iswhat is your evidence for that?
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Well, you know, boy, of course, reading your work,
reading being in direct dialoguewith David B Chamberlain,
working with APA, theAssociation of Predatal and
Paranatal Psychology, andtalking to Renee VandeCard, his
wife, kristen, of PredatalUniversity just so many things
(12:20):
aimed at and reading the work,of course, gabor Maté and Bruce
Lipton just so many things aimedthat there was a direct
connection, absolute, undeniable, direct connection with the
mental state, with the traumathat was handed down, with those
(12:40):
that had been beaten, bulliedand bruised by their culture and
by their either their mother ortheir father.
And to really get to the coreroot of that was something I was
interested in.
So I guess it's just a boldstatement and one that I will
spend the rest of my lifesolving, and I don't want to
(13:03):
upset your audience by any meansin saying something so bold.
Maybe it's a littleforeshadowing on my part to say
that this is something thatmaybe this is mine to do and
that, if I can bring that tolight, if I can, through the
work that I have created in theworld, through legends of
creation and my correspondencewith you and others, that we can
(13:25):
, as a collective family, bringlight to this horrible situation
and literally bring 100%solution or reduce homelessness
and addiction and mental illnessby 50% to 60%, at least by the
time I go.
So that would be cool OK.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
OK, listen, I'm not concerned about upsetting my
audience.
I'm not concerned aboutupsetting anybody.
I'm just interested in thetruth.
And so I'm asking, because I'vealways tried to put
pre-imperial psychology on asolid scientific foundation.
(14:06):
That's what I've always beeninterested in for the last 40
years, since I wrote the SecretLife of the Unborn Child.
So I take it from what you havetold me that your conclusion is
based on talking to thesehomeless people right, talking
(14:28):
to them.
Now, when you talk to them, howmany of them were able to tell
you that their pregnancies, inother words, when they were in
the womb of their mothers thattheir pregnancies were in some
ways traumatic?
That's what I want to know.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
And that's a great question.
It was difficult to make itthat far Because of their mental
illness, because of theirsituations, because of their
addictions.
It was very difficult to get tothat, yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
I understand that Very difficult.
Ok, so, as you are continuingto work with these people, right
, and we'll talk about yourlong-term aims, which are even
more ambitious than what youhave done so far Would it be
possible perhaps for you in thefuture to perhaps create a
(15:34):
questionnaire that everybodywould answer and that at least
would give us some statisticalanswers to the question of
trauma, define trauma and thenask about it in a specific
questionnaire kind of a way,without leading the witness,
(15:57):
without saying have you had atraumatic pregnancy?
Ok, just say what kind of apregnancy did you have?
How would you describe yourpregnancy?
Ok, not asking did your motherbeat you?
Ok, so if you would beinterested in doing that, then I
(16:18):
think that we could put yourwork also into a much more solid
research context, and thatwould be good for science and
for pre-imperial psychology andin terms of doing more good for
future generations.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
That is awesome and I welcome that.
My friend, I sent you a papercalled the Bio-Psycho-Social
Healing Project, where I've beenin conversations with Sandra,
who is the former president ofAPA, and, of course, Ray Lean,
who's the current president, andothers who see the benefit of
(17:04):
putting together a national oreven global study that can
connect the two and really sheda lot of light on this through
what you, the questionnaire andsome of the ideas that you're
speaking into, because I feelthat if we can do that, we can
step one, we can put one footcloser to really bringing a lot
(17:25):
of awareness in a scientificmanner, in a more of an
empirical way, and I would lovethat, you know.
I think it's awesome and I'mgrateful.
That sounds like a great idea.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Have you thought of coming to our next conference in
Denver in October?
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Yeah, I thought about it.
I'm financially struggling.
I harmonic humanity.
We have not done well with ourfundraisers ever since COVID.
We've been kind of handed ourbutts.
So I'm here in Ohio taking careof my 80-year-old dad and doing
some caregiving and so I'mthinking about the next moves.
(18:06):
And you know, that whole ideabetween career and survival and
running a nonprofit is not, youknow, not for the faint of
hearts man, because you've gotto always put yourself out there
.
And homelessness is, you know,it's not, it struggles because
it's everybody's so tired oftalking about that narrative.
(18:29):
Unless we get to the rootunless we get to, you know,
having the conversation aboutwhat happens before conception
and what happens in utero, thenI feel then we can have a real
in-depth conversation abouthomelessness and mental illness
and an addiction.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
Yes, have you tried to write grants asking for
grants from various foundations?
Speaker 2 (18:58):
I have not.
But right now what I've got isI've got a wonderful endorsement
from Bruce Lipton on my bookand I've got, of course, this
wonderful podcast with you.
I'm gaining validity, claimsfor the work and putting
individuals around it, like GeneHouston, who gave me a
wonderful forward from my book,and Bruce Lipton and others who
(19:22):
see the value in this outrageousidea, this unreasonable
position.
But you know what, man, I'mexcited and I know I'm at the
beginning and I know that I'vegot the rest of my life to go to
work towards this.
And, boy, like you said, if Ican be a drop in the ocean of
(19:43):
healing and restoring that whichhas been, you know, denied and
separated and ripped apart, boy,what a wonderful life that
would be Well perhaps by way ofthis podcast, which will be also
on YouTube, so it will be bothaudio and visual, perhaps we can
(20:03):
get some more support for you.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
But let me just continue with a few more
questions.
So you have a curriculum forthe child in the womb, I believe
, right A nine months classdesigned by parents or for
parents.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
That's right.
The Children's of Creation is afather's role in pregnancy and
mother's journey in becoming,and that starts nine months
before conception and goes ninemonths in utero.
So we can, a heal theintergenerational wound and, b
talk about the genius.
There's the wound and the gift,or archetypal pairings.
So we don't want to just, youknow, talk about the wound, the
(20:40):
wound, the wound.
There is a genius that wants tocome forward as well.
So, and you had asked, well,what's the significance of the
nine months?
What do you ask?
That to me?
And you know, the best that Icould come up with was the
intuition of the nine months inthe womb, and so I thought that
that happens biologically,psychologically, even socially.
(21:01):
So I thought, well, I wastrying to find how many months
it would take to have the motherand father get clear about
their wound and their giftbefore conception.
Because right now, thomas, whatwe don't have, what I'm not
seeing right now, is anintersubjective work booklet
that allows a psychologist andpsychotherapist to go back and
(21:23):
say, well, what was happening onthe second month of the, on the
third week of that, on Tuesday,you could go to Legends of
Creation and you could actuallyread the entry that the mother
and the father put in about whatthey were thinking and doing
and feeling as well at thatparticular time.
And so I feel that there is a,there is an importance, an
(21:46):
umbilical that needs to happen,and again, the healing of the
wound, the amplification ofgenius, the before conception,
and then when the child isconceived, then the mother and
the father and the coach, thelife coach, the coach of Legends
of Creation helped the motherand the father design a learning
and utero program for the childbased on you know, very
(22:12):
possibly the mother was a famouspianist and the father was a
great painter and so they wantto cultivate that.
So they actually designed thelearning and utero program with
the help of the coach.
So the 18 month class is isjust that it's the nine months
of preparing, of healing thoseintergenerational wounds, and
(22:32):
then an amplifying the geniuses,or talking about the geniuses,
and then, after conception, thenreally focusing on the bond of
the mother and the father andthe pre-nate you mentioned
pianist in your bio.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
I believe you said that you were a professional
pianist, songwriter and singer.
Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Yes, yes, sir, yes sir.
I I taught myself how to playwhen I was 18 and I've been
playing ever since.
And it's just.
I play every Friday from mycommunity here in Columbus Ohio.
I wheel out my piano.
I'll send you a little video.
I wheel out my big piano and Iinvite the community to come and
I play for the community everyFriday.
Have you got?
Speaker 1 (23:14):
a piano behind you somewhere in your office.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
No, no, but I have a.
I have a piano in my dad'sgarage and anytime, if you would
like I can, I can perform alittle show for your audience
and it's my music's.
A little bit like GeorgeWinston.
I'm not as good as GeorgeGeorge is a master, of course
but I've been playing for a longtime.
My music is very soundtrack-ish, it's very movie-like, it's
(23:37):
like very emotional and I just Idon't know what I would do
without music.
It's definitely guided me forsure.
Well, can we do that some othertime?
For sure I would love that.
Yeah, and I've got some songs.
You know I I'm a humanitarian,so all my songs are about
healing and helping and growingand being challenged and and
overcoming the adversities.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
And could you, could you give us a little preview?
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Oh, man, you're on this spot.
Hold on for a second.
Hold on, here we go.
Here we go.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Okay, hey, wonderful, he's bringing out his guitar,
lovely.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Thomas, I love you, bro.
You're awesome.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Thank you, so are you .
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Okay, we're rocking man.
You asked for it, here we go.
That's right, Okay.
This song is called Be LovePeople and it was basically
about the fact that you know,that's what we get to aspire to.
I call myself a neomethologistand in my architecture, my
(24:53):
social architecture, Iforeshadow the world's noon, and
this song is called Be LovePeople.
Can you hear it?
I can hear it.
Here we go.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
A little train.
Be Love People.
Now is the town you got to findyour truth and see the sign.
Travel to the heart, from thehead to the greek food and from
the greek food.
Hear the call From a leaderinside.
Our question is true and ourtruth is wide and children will
(25:27):
follow.
See how you be A rising tide ofsolvents.
See the captain.
See the captain deep inside.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
I don't hear the guitar.
I don't hear the guitar.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
Oh, no, no, I don't know how to do that.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
Oh, is it a microphone?
That's better, that's better.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
I'll do that first one more time.
Here we go.
Ok, be Love People.
Now is the town you got to findyour truth and see the sign.
Travel to the heart, from thehead to the greek food and from
the greek food, hear the callFrom a leader inside.
Our question is true and ourtruth is wide, and children will
(26:20):
follow.
See how you be A rising tide ofsolvents see the captain.
That's right, thomas, see thecaptain deep inside.
See the people, see the people,see the people, see the people.
(26:49):
I said, I said feel love.
Feel love, feel love, feel love.
Now is the time.
You got to find your truth.
You got to see the sign.
Travel to the heart, from thehead to the greek food and from
the greek food hear the callFrom a leader inside.
Our question is true and ourtruth is wide and children will
(27:12):
follow.
See how you be All right.
See the captain.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
See the captain.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
See the captain deep inside.
Everybody sing.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Thank you, thank you, thank you very much.
Well, we'll do it better nexttime.
That sounds great.
The microphone didn't quitepick it up, but thank you for
doing this, oh you're welcome.
So my question is was thereanything?
Was there anything, Joseph, inyour background that anything
contributed to your interest inthis whole subject of bus and
(27:56):
womb life and street people?
Speaker 2 (28:04):
You know, I just I really felt called to the
humanitarian archetype.
I've just felt drawn to servepeople and getting and playing a
role of serving the homelessand playing a role towards
helping those that are on thestreets.
I'm like, well, if I'm going toreduce home, if I'm going to
(28:25):
really play a significant role,that means I'm going to get to
the core root and, like our goodfriend, our late and great
David B Chamberlain wrote,emrology, properly understood,
can contribute to theintellectual revolution of how
we see ourselves as human beings.
So that really resonated withme and stuck with me in the work
(28:49):
of Piaget.
And if I'm going to make asignificant shift on this planet
in my time, in taking the workof your work and everybody
else's work and all my mentorsand put it all together in this
beautiful tapestry of love andconnection and community and the
rest of my life doing it that'smy goal Is to weave all those
(29:13):
things together and to make theworld a better place, as sappy
as that sound, Sounds fine.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
So tell me, was there ever a homeless person that
really touched your heart?
I mean, is there one homelessperson that over the last 15
years kind of stands out in yourmind as really affecting you
deeply emotionally?
Speaker 2 (29:42):
Yeah, that would be my best friend, aj Lovewinds.
He was a producer director inHollywood, the coolest guy in
the room, just the coolest guystill is the coolest guy and
Hollywood took him down.
The drugs, the addiction tookhim down and he was pushing a
(30:02):
shopping cart around LA andSeattle and San Francisco and
highly addicted he.
I would come to him with allthese transformational ideas and
quotes and Joseph Campbell andthis and that, and Tony Robbins
and I would.
I would be that that positivityin his life and I would give
(30:22):
him, you know, these greatquotes about you can do it, you
can transform your life, youknow, and, and so we would have
these conversations, knowingthat he could in this life, the
next day, you know, throughaddiction and through overdosing
and and it was just scary, itwas scary for me, it was very
scary and I said, listen,brother.
I said I, I would love to workwith you, I would love to do
(30:43):
something with you Once you'reclean and whole and you feel
complete with that particularjourney, I'd love to work with
you.
And he, he called me from asoup kitchen one day and he said
Joseph.
He said I, I'm in clean.
For a year he said I've beenbringing musicians to a soup
kitchen and and the musiciansthat we're singing, they were
(31:05):
singing about love and joy andhope and possibility and renewal
and these themes, and he said Inoticed something.
He said I noticed that themusic and consciousness from the
music was just as nutritious asthe food that they were serving
, and I want to be the help thatI wish that I had on the
streets.
Will you co found and startharmonic humanity with me?
(31:29):
And I said, of course, and youdid, and we did, and we've,
we've, we created, we createmusic compilation albums and we
invite musicians, musicians tocome and add their music to the
albums.
Our latest album is called hero.
(31:50):
We have an album featuringJason Maraz, michael franti,
maroon five and Sarah McLachlan,so we got some of the top
musicians in the world to be onour on our album, for Grammy
award winning artists to be onour album.
And the homeless, through ourprogram, since 2009, have made
for themselves close to a half amillion dollars selling,
(32:12):
selling art and music on thestreets for themselves.
And here this is called the.
It's called the heroes gamebook.
It's a little bit, it's how youcan't see it that well.
But, anyway, yeah, it's, it's athis is an inter subjective work
booklet that holds, like wewere talking about earlier,
holds the individual, in supportof them, moving from
(32:35):
disempowerment to empowerment byusing the heroes journey and
guiding them through the stagesof the hero journey to realize
their full potential.
And that's really excitingbecause we really, you know, we
really want to let go of thosethings that no longer serve that
individual and start to bringin the things that do.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Are your?
Are your parents still alive?
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Yeah, my dad's still alive, my mom's still alive and
you know I love them so much.
They've really guided metowards such a beautiful life.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
So is your.
Is your dad still looking forgold?
Speaker 2 (33:15):
Yeah, it is his own way.
He was such an adventure and hewas such a.
He inspired me to do somethingcompletely unreasonable, and
starting a scuba shop in Ohio in1968 was a pretty radical move,
but he made a whole career outof it and I traveled with him
(33:37):
All over the world, becausethere's no scuba diving here in
Columbus, ohio, so you know theBahamas and the Caribbean and
the Red Sea and and justdifferent places.
I was able to go with him onsome of those trips and
experience the scuba diving anddiving in different places all
over the world and so it wassuch an adventurous life and
I've I've led that kind ofadventurous life so far.
(33:58):
I'm able to go and go to placesand see people and, and you know
, I just I really appreciate theadventure of what I've done
with harmonic community becauseit, thomas, it's humbled me, it
makes me grateful for lifeworking with individuals that
are in adversity.
It really it has you present tohow precious and beautiful life
(34:28):
is, and I say this that some ofthe homeless that I've worked
with have taught me humility andgratitude like I can.
I can, I can.
It's just it's reason I keepdoing it because I'm humbled by
their level of gratitude thatthey have and they have nothing.
Do you have children?
(34:49):
I do not.
You, don't.
I'm, I'm always in prayer andI've got my spirit children,
aliyah, jack and the vesica, whoare keeping their eyes open for
my, for mom, and so I say,please, my prayers, please
create the situations ofcircumstances, the events and
(35:09):
the relationships that allow meto meet mom and I.
I would love your support inthat.
So I pray to my spirit childrenand and and know that when I do
meet mom, that I'm, that I'mready to go, that I've done my
homework and and I will be thebest, best father I can possibly
(35:30):
be.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
If, if you could have dinner with any three people,
dead or alive, who would it be?
Speaker 2 (35:39):
Oh my gosh.
Oh, you're good, you're good.
I like these questions.
I would David B, because he wassuch an angel.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
David Chamberlain.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, he was awesome.
I don't know if I told you this, but we knew each other for 15
years.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
No, no, I didn't know that.
I didn't know that.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
Yeah, he was.
I sent him my paper when I wasabout 26.
It was the paper that wasbasically about all of this that
I've evolved into now and webecame real good friends.
I'd call Donna.
Donna would be like David.
David would come in and we haveconversations on Saturday and
(36:28):
he actually would send mechapters of his book.
Oh gosh, it was Windows to theWomb.
He said, joseph, you mind if Isend you some chapters of my
book?
I'm like, oh my gosh, I'd lovethat.
So he'd send me chaptersWindows to the Womb and I would
review them and then we wouldjust talk about them.
You know, like what's the?
You know, it was just awesome.
(36:50):
So David B would be one of them, gene Houston, because she's
such a.
I just love her energy.
And who would be the otherperson?
Who I would?
And Joseph Campbell, that wouldbe.
That would be a wonderfultrilogy of myth.
Speaker 1 (37:16):
That would be interesting.
How did you ever sort of getinto Joseph Campbell?
It's so different from theothers that you have mentioned.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
Well, I love, like I said, I call myself a
neomethologist and I host socialtheater, I teach social theater
and I offer that to thecommunity.
And social theater is reallythe core of social theater is
the power of expression.
And so in this power ofexpression and in, through this,
(37:48):
the storytelling elements,joseph, really you know, that
was it for me that really got mecentered towards the death,
birth and rebirth, and I feelthat if we are going to heal, we
have to really let that part ofculture die so we can be reborn
(38:11):
again, because we have a lot ofthings that are playing
themselves out without propertransformational technologies.
And if we have a rhythmictransformation in our culture
and our society, then we havethe ability to shed our skin or
the crab molds or the spider,you know molds.
Then we can embrace that partof ourselves that is new and
(38:37):
whole and born again in a sense.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
What is the best advice you ever received?
Speaker 2 (38:45):
Best advice I ever received.
Speaker 3 (38:51):
Boy, best advice I ever received.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
Where we end up on life's journey depends upon the
map we carry with us, and thatwas Gene Houston.
And where we end up on life'sjourney depends upon the map we
carry with us.
Also, another one is she saidthe patterns of an emerging
psychology are offered in theknowing that as we go inward we
(39:20):
can access the depth structuresof our being and build bridges
to the great archetypal realms,where and why the dynamic
designs that form and reform ourreality.
That was from Gene Houston aswell.
So those are two quotes that Ijust love because that sacred
psychology speaks to me andhaving a map is key.
(39:42):
But also, Gene says, becauseshe's such a beautiful soul.
She says two questions.
You want to ask yourself whatmap are you using?
And the other question is whatwas the story that influenced
you to use that map?
Speaker 1 (39:56):
And what was the story that influenced your map?
Speaker 2 (40:00):
It was love, it was community, it was healing.
To heal means to make whole.
So I was.
I love that, and so my guide islove, unconditional love, unity
and healing and helping othersto find their empowerment and to
(40:20):
help them transform and to keeptransforming.
We're always transforming, soI'm excited about that message
and I've seen it work.
Tom, so many times over andover again.
To that community, that's just.
That is beaten up by life.
Speaker 1 (40:37):
Did you have I don't know how to put this tactfully
did you have any like formal,formal university education?
Speaker 2 (40:47):
No, none.
Earth, Earth 2.0, life 2.0 and2.2, 2.3.
You know, it's just, I'vealways been hyperly aware and
I've always been very good atchopping wood and carrying water
as doing the work and makingsure that when it came time to
(41:09):
it, I could be in a conversationwith somebody like you as a
very heightened intellectual wayof being, and we could have a
conversation, because that hasbeen probably the greatest joy
of my life is getting inconversation with individuals
like you.
And you know what you talkedabout earlier is like, hey, we
can do this, and you know you'remy mentor, so you're like you
(41:32):
push me over there, push me overhere, you can kind of see the.
You can see I'm kind of on theedge of that, but you're wanting
to bring me to the center of itand I want to get there as well
.
And even in the book Legends ofCreation, the nine months before
conception, I'm askingindividuals, culture or creators
like you if you want to add atwo-page exercise that could
(41:55):
some exercise that you would add, that would inform the mother
and the father before conception.
What would that exercise be?
And so I'm wanting to make thebook an anthology of writings,
because I'm not the intellectualexpert on all of it.
My God, I'll never know all ofit.
But I can at least ask theright questions that can put
them on the path, and I canbring and invite people in to
(42:18):
make the book an open sourceanthology of writing.
So there'll be an exercise fromyou, if you know, if you're, if
you're excited about that, anexercise from Gene Houston, an
exercise from Bruce Linton, youknow.
So.
It's a group of writings thatwill shape the awareness of the
mother and the father.
So they have all of thedistinction and tools and the
(42:40):
skills and the philosophies whenthey step in to playing that
sacred spiritual role of beingparents.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
Well, I just wanted I don't know whether you know of
my most recent book, theEmbodied Mind.
Ah, you have it.
God bless you, good man, goodman, good man, good man, I am
(43:16):
involved in, I've been invitedat, a very large conference next
year in the Czech Republic, inPrague probably, and they are
doing a very large conference ontrauma and I'm going to
(43:37):
recommend them that they inviteyou.
Is that okay with you?
Speaker 2 (43:44):
My friend.
That would be the coolest thingI could ever imagine.
Speaker 1 (43:48):
Because I tell you honestly, no bullshit I'm very
impressed by your work, very,very impressed.
I think that you're doing thekind of work that scientists
don't do, because they live inthese ivory towers and you are
(44:11):
doing the hard work.
You are doing the work on thestreet, which is where it has to
be done.
Speaker 2 (44:18):
Oh man, I got goosebumps on goosebumps, my
friend.
I just you know, when I pickedup your book, man, I got to
acknowledge you again.
I'm sorry.
I just got to keep doing itbecause you're in the room and I
got to do it.
You changed my life, buddy.
(44:40):
I was praying, I was praying, Iwas praying and there you were.
And when I read the Secret Lifeof Menomorch, I only imagine
this is how it is for a lot ofpeople.
I mean, maybe not.
Listen I just, I am.
I see it, I felt you, I feltyour words, I felt the power, I
felt the intuition, I felt itall.
And from that book I dedicate,I said I'm dedicating my life to
(45:05):
this.
And here I am, you know, andit's just, it's very exciting,
and I will always remain ahumanitarian.
I'm not sure how much longer Iwill go with harmonic humanity,
because I would like giving ajob to the homeless and teaching
the homeless.
Transformational education isabsolutely essential and I think
that it should continue.
(45:26):
But me, as a director, I'mthinking of stepping down and
then putting myself full timeinto the legends of creation so
I can say in 20 years or evenafter I'm dead that this work
has, has, has done what it'ssupposed to do, and that is to
alleviate, if not 90%, 80%, 70%,60%.
(45:48):
I know it's unreasonable, butI'd like to shoot for the stars
and I want others to see, toshoot the stars with me and say
we can end, we can get away fromthis polarity consciousness, we
can get away from this redversus blue team consciousness
and we can get into the fabricof a moral imagination and we
can start to tell a new story ofa world in transition, this
(46:10):
story based strategy, of thisgreat mythos of how we start
from the beginning and how webring love and connection and
community to this beautiful work, and how the last piece of this
, last piece of this, thomas, isa lot of billions and billions
and billions of dollars aregoing to the homeless.
(46:32):
Through this work, and maybethrough this study that we're
talking about, perhaps we canhave some of those hundreds of
millions go to prenatal, likeApple, I told Sandra when I
first met her.
I said, sandra, my job is tofigure out how we're going to
bring millions and millions andmillions of dollars to you, and
(46:53):
if we can do that through saying, hey, the homeless situation is
great, but let's shift theconversation to the core root,
which is preconception,education and prenatal bonding,
and let's funnel hundreds ofmillions into that, if that can
be one of the outcomes of thiswork, boy, I would be so excited
(47:15):
and I'd feel like Santa Claus.
Speaker 1 (47:18):
Well, that's great, like you are really doing the
heavy lifting, and I want torecognize that, I respect it and
I want to honor it.
So, my friend, you are doing avery, very important job and
let's stay in touch.
I will.
(47:38):
I will recommend that youparticipate both in the Denver
Denver Conference, the UpperConference, and the one in
Prague, because we need peoplewho are doing the work, you know
, not just the intellectual work, which I am good at, yes, and
(47:59):
it's hard.
It's, you know, like the lastbook that you have shown took me
seven years, seven years ofhard work, you know.
So my work is difficult too,but it's different, it's
different and we need both.
We need people like you and weneed people like me, right?
Speaker 2 (48:23):
Yes, my God.
Well, you know, and if my dreamis to work with people like you
and to move forward, and if Ikeep doing my homework and I
keep showing up, and we keepshowing up, we can make the
world a better place, and that'sthe goal is to, you know, to
serve others.
(48:43):
So we can.
We become greater expressionsof ourselves when we serve
others.
I feel.
Speaker 1 (48:50):
We can do it and we must do it, because the world
actually is in pretty bad shaperight now.
Speaker 2 (48:56):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:57):
Yeah.
So my friend, my friend, weneed to come to an end here.
This broadcast will be live, asthey say, in two weeks time.
Okay, so I will let you knowwhen it's on and I'll send you
all the links and you can use itany way, which way you want.
Speaker 2 (49:18):
Thank you, Thank you very much, and I'll leave you
with this quote Okay, it's byDerek Wolcott.
He said the time will come withelation.
You will greet yourself.
You will greet yourself in yourown door and in your own mirror
and each will smile at theother's welcome and say sit here
, eat.
You will love again thestranger that was once yourself.
(49:40):
Give wine, give bread, sit andfeast on your own life.
Speaker 1 (49:46):
Amen, take care and good luck, and we shall meet
again, I hope.
Thanks, thomas, have abeautiful night you too.
Bye.
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