April 12, 2024 • 34 mins
The loss of a dog, a cat, a horse, a bird, any pet can cause us to experience grief. The animals we share our homes and lives with are part of our families and when they are no longer there it can create a significant and painful void.
Listen in as I interview Rachel Shirley, a compelling author and certified coach committed to guiding individuals through life's profound moments, including the impactful experience of pet loss.
https://www.rachel-shirley.com/
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Episode Transcript
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Michelle (00:10):
Well, hey everybody, and welcome back to Qualified,
the place where incrediblepeople share their stories of
overcoming great adversity andloss to inspire you and give you
hope.
I'm Michelle Heaton.
In every episode of the show,we explore grief and loss and
its impact on our lives.
We've talked about the loss ofa loved one spouses, parents,
(00:33):
friends, children and how griefcan take a toll on our emotions,
our bodies and ourrelationships.
It's hard stuff and I'm sograteful that you would take the
time to listen in as my guestsshare their stories with you and
together we find our way topeace and hope and a desire to
move forward with new purpose.
(00:54):
Well, I'm very excited tointroduce you to my guest today,
because she's the first one tobring this topic to the show and
I believe there are many peopleout there that may benefit from
what she has to share.
Today we'll talk about the lossof a beloved pet.
It may be your dog, a cat, abird, a horse you fill in the
(01:16):
blank but if you have loved andlost a precious pet, you
understand the sadness and painthat comes with it.
Precious pet, you understandthe sadness and pain that comes
with it.
Well, my guest today is anauthor and certified coach
committed to guiding individualsthrough life's profound moments
, including the impactfulexperience of pet loss.
In her book Pet Loss and DivineHealing, she provides a unique
(01:40):
perspective and hope to thosemourning their beloved
companions perspective and hopeto those mourning their beloved
companions.
She's also a wife and a motherof two incredible boxer boys,
spencer and Charlie.
Her name is Rachel Shirley andit's my honor to have her as my
guest on the show today.
Welcome to Qualified Rachel.
Rachel (01:59):
Oh, thank you so much.
It's such an honor to be hereand my heart is full of
gratitude that you said yes.
Michelle (02:09):
Well, thank you Wonderful, I'm excited to have
you.
Yeah, all right, Rachel, let'sstart off by you telling us
exactly what is a pet loss griefcoach, and how did you end up
in this business?
Rachel (02:22):
So a pet loss grief coach is somebody who comes
alongside grieving pet parentsand it can be pretty much in any
stage.
I have clients that come to meright when their sweet one
passed.
And then I have other clientsthat maybe it's been a year and
(02:44):
they just kind of find me andthey say, hey, wait a minute,
I've been really struggling withthis and I have guilt about
this.
So I really serve people rightwhere they are and it's really
specific to pet loss and griefand all of the how can I say it
crazy emotions we go through inany type of grief and loss.
(03:08):
So that's really what I've hadlost grief coaches.
I don't think there are toomany of me out there.
I'm actually a certifiedprofessional coach and have been
since 2006.
And I coached in many differentareas and I was working in
leadership and when COVID hit Iquit.
After a couple months I kind ofdecompressed and detoxed from
(03:33):
the leadership industry.
I just found my footing againand really got centered.
I asked my husband I wonder ifthere's such a thing as like pet
loss coach or something.
So we Googled it and it'sactually a thing.
So I found the guru of it and Iasked her if she would mentor
(03:54):
me.
And she said absolutely, andshe has a certification and the
rest is history.
So I've been doing it full timesince 2020, when COVID hit.
Michelle (04:12):
And I'm just beyond blessed to be able to be of
service in this capacity.
Well, that's great.
So it sounds like when you werein this leadership world, this
kind of business world, covidwoke a lot of us up to what is
it that's really in our heart,and it sounds like you decided
that your passion for animalswas something you wanted to just
take and run with.
So I commend you for doing that, for following your heart.
And I know part of the reasonfor that was because you had
(04:34):
experience with your own petloss.
That was pretty devastating toyou when you lost your dog
Winston.
So tell us a little bit aboutlosing him and what that was
like for you emotionally.
Rachel (04:47):
Thank you for that.
Yeah, it was a shock, you know,just like a lot of losses.
It was a big shock.
It was June of 2019.
And Winston was nine years oldand he had just had some blood
work done six months prior.
But I could notice that he wasdoing a bit of a decline and he
(05:12):
was not really wanting to eat.
I would kind of have to enticehim more than usual.
And then it got to a pointwhere he just refused and I said
something's going on.
And I was working from home andI asked my husband.
I said something's going on andI was working from home and I
asked my husband.
I said can you please take himto the vet?
Something's going on.
They took him in right away andI got a phone call that I never
(05:34):
expected the vet and my husbandcalled and said oh, am I crying
?
Michelle (05:40):
Oh, I'm sorry.
Rachel (05:41):
No, it's okay.
It's okay.
He said that he had a braintumor and cancer all over his
body and that it would be bestto put him down right away to
end his suffering.
And I mean, you talk about ashock, and so it was devastating
(06:04):
.
My husband brought him home andwe spent a few hours with him
and we made that very difficultdecision to take him back to
have his peaceful passing,because we didn't want him to
suffer, and so we took him backthat evening.
It was so difficult, and I thinkpart of the loss too was
(06:28):
Spencer, who was looking out thewindow like where's my brother,
you know, and so I was grievingfor myself and for Spencer, and
I'm sure your listeners canreally relate to.
You know, we grieve ourselves,but we take on the ones we love
their grief too, you know.
(06:49):
And so it was very, verychallenging to understand what
was happening and how ithappened, and all the questions
in my mind did we miss something?
How could this have happened?
Was it food that we gave him,you know?
All the things that we canthink of went racing through my
mind.
So it was very challenging, forsure.
Michelle (07:12):
Oh, thanks for opening up and I know those emotions,
they just stink.
You know, we had at one point wehad three dogs in our family
and one of them, like yours,just started behaving in a weird
way and when we took him insame kind of diagnosis just
instantly from one day to thenext, it was a tumor also, but
it was just so sudden and I didtake the other dog out for a
(07:35):
long walk to distract him andyou know, when he came home his
brother wasn't there.
And you're right.
I mean, they notice, they'reanimals, but they have emotions
like we do and it's hardnonetheless.
And you know, like I said inthe intro, in the show we talk
about losing people and we wantto make it clear that we're
talking about two differentthings.
(07:55):
Everybody knows that, but thereis a depth of emotion associated
with losing our fur babies.
So I and I also, you know Iwant to point out that you told
me that you and your husband didnot have children, and so your,
your dogs were your babies,yeah, and so I have a good
friend who's in the samesituation and she just loves her
(08:17):
cats and lost a cat recently.
So my question to you is whatwould you say, as a coach, to
someone who's like that, who'sin your position, whose children
are their animals and who'sgoing through a significant loss
like that?
Rachel (08:34):
Yeah, it's a great question, and there are a lot of
me out there there really areand and one of the things that I
really put emphasis on is thatyou aren't alone and that what
you're feeling is nothing to beashamed about.
(08:58):
You know, I I think that havingsuch a deep relationship with
our loved ones being animalsbecause we don't have children,
it's like my belief is that Goddesigned us to nurture.
It's in our DNA and, forwhatever reason, if we didn't
(09:19):
have children, that's okay.
That's okay.
We still want to nurture andtake care of, and animals are an
amazing way to do that.
They're God's creatures and soit's giving in that way too, and
it's okay to know that this waslike your child and that you're
(09:41):
going to get through it.
I think that's the biggestthing to know, and even though
it's so tremendously painful andloss is loss, you know, when we
don't have human children andwe have bird children, sometimes
society can look down on us,and I don't think it's
(10:03):
intentional.
Society can look down on us andI don't think it's intentional.
Michelle (10:07):
I think it's just they're like why?
Rachel (10:08):
don't you have kids or exactly.
You know and it's, and you know, I mean I give grace to
everybody.
But I think we kind of carrythat, we kind of feel you know,
when I say, don't have kids, Ihave my fur babies, most people
are like that's great.
I know there are a few that arelike I wonder why, right, it
really doesn't the why doesn'tmatter, it's the, it's the, what
(10:30):
it's that we love deeply, justlike you with with human
children and boy.
I I can only imagine, I can'timagine what you all have gone
through with losing your human.
You know, it's just and it'sdeep and we all can connect with
(10:53):
loss and grief.
And that's one of the beautifulreasons why I love that we're
having this conversation isbecause you really recognize
that loss is loss.
Michelle (11:06):
Yeah, it's really important to address it.
I really believe that and, youknow, you said something really
important.
It is painful.
I had a child, you know, andI've also had pets my whole life
.
I really believe that and yousaid something really important.
It is painful.
I had a child and I've also hadpets my whole life, and I
couldn't imagine being without adog around.
But having lost Sean at the ageof 17, one of the things that I
(11:28):
well, the first thing Iimmediately struggled with in my
loss was the concept of heaven,and all these questions swirl
in a parent's mind when theylose a child too.
You know, did I contribute insome way?
All the regrets and a millionthings?
But, what I wanted to know asevery parent does, even when
their kid is here is where is mykid at any given time and when
(11:51):
we lose them?
It was important to me to knowabout heaven and I ended up
getting my hands on a bookcalled Heaven by Randy Alcorn,
and he actually has a wholechapter on the concept of
animals and heaven and it reallymade me smile because of what
he had to say about it.
And then, when I read your book, you cited his book, but if you
could just take a minute andjust tell us a little bit about
(12:14):
what you learned from his bookand what you believe about this
topic.
Rachel (12:19):
Yes, yes, I'm so glad that you you're open to this
conversation and you know theimportance of it.
You know, because I mean,everybody is entitled to believe
what they believe, right, and Ibelieve in heaven as well, and
really, what I learned fromRandy's book, it was
(12:42):
confirmation.
You know, it was realconfirmation for me for what I
felt that we have a loving Godand that he created us, he
created the animals, he createdeverything, and his character is
for us to be united, and thisis not our home where we are
(13:03):
right now.
Heaven will be, and having thatparticular chapter in there
just was really, reallyencouraging that.
Hey, my intuition is right.
I mean, it just brings a joyand a joyful outlook and there
are so many scriptures thatpoint to it.
(13:24):
And I point out in my book thatI'm not a pastor.
I know the Bible but I don'tlike go around preaching all the
time.
But I will tell you there areseveral scriptures and I always
point when I have clients thatare interested in the topic, I
point them to resources so theycan come to their own conclusion
(13:48):
.
Michelle (13:49):
I love the way your book pulls those scripture
quotes out too at the beginningof the different chapters.
But since we're talking aboutyour book, in chapter six you
really get into relationships,and at one point you said my
clients often share with me thatthey're grieving more deeply
after losing their pet than whentheir parents or another
significant person in their lifepassed.
(14:11):
Can you explain to us why aperson might feel that way?
Rachel (14:17):
Yes, I've been fortunate and blessed to be able to work
with probably about 2,000families now, and I'll tell you,
it is super common and one ofthe most common things that
comes along with it is shame andquestioning themselves and how
(14:39):
that could be.
Usually, somebody will come tome and say I've never
experienced something thispainful before, even when I lost
my father.
My father and I were close andI lost my father.
My father and I were close, andone of the things that I
compassionately and with empathywill share with them is you
(15:06):
know, if we were to pull out acalculator and we were to
calculate how many days, youknow in how many years you were
with your pet, think about it.
They might have slept in yourbed with you.
You were with them 24-7.
And with our beautiful siblingsand parents and all of our
humans around us.
Absolutely losing them isincredibly painful, and maybe
(15:27):
one of the reasons why this is adifferent level of pain is
because of the fact that youspent so much time together.
The other thing that I pointout is that you're actually
withdrawing.
Your body is withdrawing.
When you pet your kitty, a bird, whatever your pet is, when you
(15:52):
pet them, the oxytocin and allof the brain chemicals are going
, and then all of a suddenthey're gone, and that constant
eye contact and those kisses andall of the cuddles and all of
the touch, that's completelygone.
And so we don't have that withour parents, right?
(16:13):
So I just kind of point outthose things and they start to
understand, oh, okay, well, I'mnot crazy, I'm like no, you
aren't, and it's okay to feelthat way.
And one last thing on this isthat everybody, who, who brings
that to the table when we'retalking, really missed their
(16:40):
human, you know, and and stilldoes, and, and you know there's,
there's just a beautiful partin their soul that still longs
for them.
And I encourage them that it'san and not an, or, right, it's
not, oh, I should grieve thisone or this one.
(17:01):
No, there's an and in there youcan grieve both and let's do
that together.
Michelle (17:08):
Yeah, that's kind of like we talked about before.
It's two different types ofgrief, two different types of
love two different types ofintimate relationship, if you
will.
But grief is grief and loss isloss, and I'm glad you brought
that up, because there might bepeople that are feeling guilt
and shame and it's good toaddress that.
(17:28):
I think your book does a greatjob of talking about that.
The story that came to mind asyou were talking is my little
dog, Sam.
He just followed me.
You learn to just be mindful ofyour stepping when you walk,
because you might step backwardsand step on a tail or a foot,
you know.
So you're just constantly awareof their presence, whereas your
(17:49):
parent might live far away andyou only see them a couple of
times a year.
Right, right, yeah, and youknow just the idea.
You know, those of us that loveanimals so deeply know that
they just bring such joy andwarmth.
And you know, today it feelslike more hotels are allowing
animals to come.
(18:09):
I know that more restaurants areallowing, you know, dog
friendly, this, dog friendly,that pet friendly, if you will.
And sometimes we even seepeople with emotional support
animals.
Yeah, and some of those peoplestruggle with PTSD or other
mental health issues, and it hasbeen discovered that pets can
bring a sense of comfort tosomeone who's experienced trauma
(18:31):
.
A sense of comfort to someonewho's experienced trauma.
Rachel (18:37):
So what is it about animals that brings us so much
peace?
Oh, I love this.
I think really it's the joythat they bring us.
You know, even in trauma, andour animals are 100% in the
present, unlike us, and so Ilike to share that.
Humans are complicated, right,and our relationships with
(19:00):
humans are complicated.
With pets they are not right.
It's just very we're in themoment with them, and so I
believe that they really centerus, they ground us and they give
us that safe place to not weara mask, to not have to be on.
(19:22):
We can just be ourselves.
And they love usunconditionally.
I always say this, you know,they are everything we wish
humans were Unconditional love,loyalty, forgiveness.
I mean, my goodness right.
And as humans we strive to bethat, but we fail and that's
(19:43):
okay.
But it just seems like, youknow, the emotional support that
we can get from our sweetanimals is just tremendous, and
to see the growth and the safetyin those relationships is just
remarkable, absolutelyremarkable.
They know that their dog, cat,bird, horse is not going to let
(20:07):
them down like a human is.
Michelle (20:10):
Yeah, all of those attributes that you called out
are absolutely true, and I wasthinking.
There's one more that I loveabout animals is that they're
just nonjudgmental.
Rachel (20:23):
You know they don't care what you look like sound like
you know, they're just rightthere with you.
Michelle (20:28):
And what's a shame is that, like you said, it's
different from people, and thenthe sad part of it is that their
lives are so much shorter thanpeople.
Rachel (20:36):
Right yeah.
I have a theory on that one.
So when I lost Winston, Iwrestled with it.
I was like why?
Why so short and such a deeplove?
And I thought about people whohave lost loved ones so short,
you know, like you in 17 years.
(20:58):
And then I would have clientsask me the same thing and I just
came to the point, with God onit, that he has designed it
where we can have multiplethrough our lifetimes.
He has designed it where we canhave multiple through our
lifetimes.
My belief is that our pets giveus the most unconditional love
(21:19):
and everything that our heavenlyfather is, and he has brought
these animals into our lives forus to experience a glimpse of
how he really cares for us.
It's a wonderful way for us tolearn the lesson that our sweet
one gave us in life and to payit forward and teach those to
(21:41):
others how to be a good human.
Michelle (21:44):
You know, when you were talking about that, I was
thinking, you know, we lost ourdog, sam, last year in January.
And people will say to us areyou going to get another dog?
And you and I talked a littlebit about that, but what are
your personal thoughts ongetting another dog after loss?
Rachel (22:04):
Yeah, my personal thoughts are that God designed
us to nurture, and I have beenon the phone with, and Zooms
with clients who feel like theywill be betraying or replacing,
(22:25):
and we just have a conversation,an open conversation, about
it's not replacing and it's notbeing disrespectful to your pet.
That passed if you were to openyour heart to love another one,
and it's a totally differentrelationship.
And so there's this naturalpart in us that wants to nurture
(22:49):
.
That's how we're designed.
So when I'm working withclients and I'm supporting them,
I let them know that it's theirchoice.
So really, my viewpoint is thatwe're here to love as many as
we can while we're on earth in aresponsible way, and you can
(23:10):
love and grieve at the same time.
I literally got a text.
I can cry right now.
I wish I had my phone with meto read it.
He would be okay with it.
But a client.
He said to me and I haven'tspoken to him probably for six
months, maybe, maybe a littlebit less.
He texts me and he said I wantyou to know how much you bless
(23:32):
me, rachel, because you taughtme that I can grieve and open my
heart to new love.
And you're right.
Look who we just got and youknow it was a picture of a sweet
one from a shelter, and I getstories like that all the time
because it really is part of mycalling to just let people off
(23:53):
the hook.
If they want to have anotherone, they can.
If they don't, that's okay.
But my belief is yes,absolutely, because you know the
joy that's going to be comingfrom it and it's a wonderful
experience.
Michelle (24:08):
So, yeah, yeah, I agree with you.
I used to have people say to meyou know, you and your husband,
your dog's the luckiest dog inthe world, because I know how
much we love animals, so they'relike well you know this dog's
got it made.
So you know we were kind ofcreated to be pet people, and
you're right.
So another thing that you mayhave experience with with your,
(24:29):
your clients, is you and Italked about you know when.
When my son, Sean, passed away,he was 17.
And when my dog passed awayafter Sean's death, my dog was
also 17.
We had him for a long time andI've talked to a lot of people
who have lost a loved one andthen they find so much comfort
from their pet and then thatanimal dies and there's a thing
(24:53):
that we refer to as cumulativegrief when people experience
multiple losses.
So can you talk about that?
Have you experienced that withclients?
Rachel (25:11):
Yes, a huge majority of clients actually have life
circumstances where it feelslike domino effects to them.
You know they've lost differentthings a job, you know, a parent
, a husband, a wife, all youknow all types of loss and then
their sweet pet goes too, youknow.
And so it really is just sittingin that space with them and
(25:31):
allowing them to know that it'simportant to be gentle with
yourself and to haveself-compassion and to realize
that we don't know why all theselosses are happening.
And the more that we focus onthe why question, the more it
pulls us away from reallymourning and doing the hard work
(25:57):
of grieving, and so it's justgiving that safe place to say,
listen, I am so sorry that allof this loss has happened and I
can't imagine what you're goingthrough and we're going to get
through this together in any waythat you need I'm here for you
(26:19):
way that you need, I'm here foryou.
And we talk about a supportsystem and how they can find,
you know, and tap into theirsupport systems whether they
were already going to a griefgroup or different things like
that and just really equippingand resourcing and moving in a
forward direction and honoringthe grief at the same time.
(26:43):
Right, but yes, I have many,many clients that that are in
that position.
Michelle (26:49):
You know, and that's very well said, Many of my
guests who have been grieftherapists and grief experts
have said those same words.
You know it's very important tonot suppress those emotions
Right same words, it's veryimportant to not suppress those
emotions, honor them, but thenalso moving forward and not
getting too dragged down in theemotion of it that you're
paralyzed, but all really reallygood stuff.
(27:10):
I know throughout thisdiscussion we've talked about
faith and we've talked aboutbelieving that our pets are
created by God and so what?
just if you could summarize forme what role faith plays in the
services that you offer.
Rachel (27:26):
Yeah, it's a great question.
And, michelle, I'll tell yousomething funny.
So on my website I say I'm awoman of faith, and so it's
there.
But about 80% of my clientsdon't believe in God or are
angry with God or whatever itmay be, and that's okay, and so
(27:49):
it's just so important foreverybody to not feel judged and
for them to have their ownbeliefs and come to their own
conclusions.
Come to their own conclusionsand so I really believe it's
just being a loving, safe placefor people to land and they can
have any religion or anythingthat they want, because grief is
(28:11):
grief and that actually is abig thing for me.
Some of my clients I'll praywith, but I pray on my own.
Some of my clients I'll praywith, but I pray on my own.
Behind the scenes.
I ask God any client that'scoming to me, please bless their
heart and I'll know specificsand I pray for them.
But truthfully, I would say 80%of my clients we don't talk
(28:36):
about it, but they have thisbeautiful place to start asking
questions and then I'll justspeak like I am with you.
You know, it's just anopportunity, right, it's an
opportunity to plant some seedsand then it's God's
responsibility to take itwherever he wants right.
So it's it really is.
(28:58):
It's a joy and it's one of thereasons why I chose to do this
line of work.
Michelle (29:05):
I think that you know God knew what he was doing and
the fact that you are a woman offaith, you model those
characteristics that areChrist-like.
I mean, Jesus himself was a manof sorrows and he was well
acquainted with grief and youknow, to some that are not
Christian that sounds morbid andsad.
But we know that there isbeauty.
(29:27):
We talk about it all the timeon the podcast.
We know that there is beauty inthe adversity that we go
through and it takes time to getto that place.
Where we see it, we don't losesomeone and we feel that way on
day one.
But you and I know, and I thinkthat uniquely qualifies you to
be a really good pet grief losscoach.
(29:47):
So thank you for all of that,Absolutely.
Rachel (29:50):
Thank you.
Michelle (29:52):
Yeah, yeah.
So I want to ask you now totell us what are those big life
lessons that you've learnedthrough both losing your sweet
pet, your fur baby, and thenthrough coaching all these
people through their hard times.
What are those lessons that youcould share with somebody who
might be hurting right now andgoing through the loss of an
animal that they love?
Rachel (30:13):
When we go through grief , sometimes we can have
expectations of how others.
We would want them to show upand friends abandon or, you know
, because they don't know how tohandle grief themselves or how
to talk to us.
Family members can do that, soexpectations can be challenging
(30:36):
and so having self-compassionand being gentle with ourselves
is really important.
Another one is in the kindnessto yourself.
Be real honest.
I think honesty is where thehealing happens and, like you
(30:57):
mentioned, when we don'tsuppress our feelings and we can
be really honest with ourselves, I believe we really can see
the beauty of our character andhow well we love.
And to take that and moveforward, like with Sam, your
(31:18):
sweet pup that passed.
With Sam, your sweet pup thatpassed, I mean it's so beautiful
that you still have lessons andyou carry them out through your
day, but you don't have to say,oh well, I learned this from
Sam, but you did, but you stilljust carry it out and I think
that's a really big thing thatwe be the best that we can be in
(31:39):
our lives because they taughtus to love so deeply.
Michelle (31:43):
Yeah, and all those attributes of a dog that you
mentioned before.
Those are things that we wantto model toward other people in
life, so it's almost like Godcan use our animals to be the
greatest teachers to us.
Rachel (31:56):
Yeah, right.
Michelle (31:57):
Yeah, I love it.
Well, thank you.
Those are really great lessons.
Is there anything else that youwant to offer that I failed to
ask you?
Rachel (32:07):
You have such beautiful questions and your grace and all
the work that you're doing isabsolutely incredible.
So I think we really gave somefood for thought for some people
and hopefully we said somecomforting words that they
aren't alone in this.
And I just I really want tohonor your son, you know, and
(32:33):
everything that you and yourhusband and family have gone
through and how you turned thatpain into a big purpose in
serving in this capacity.
So thank you for that.
I know that loss was very, verydifficult, and then to have
your sweet pup pass too.
So, yeah, definitely.
Michelle (32:55):
Thank you very much, Rachel.
That means a lot coming fromyou.
And again, you just proven tome that you were born to do this
.
So I'm grateful for what you doand continue to do it, because
I know that you're making a lotof people happy and, having read
through your book and readingsome of the testimonials, is a
link to your website in the shownotes so that listeners can go
(33:17):
there, read about your servicesand also get a copy of your book
.
Rachel (33:26):
So at this point.
Michelle (33:27):
I just want to tell you thank you.
Thank you so much for a greatinterview.
It was a pleasure having you onthe show.
Rachel (33:33):
Oh, thank you so much.
It's an honor, thank you.
Michelle (33:52):
So, for those of you listening, if you're grieving
the loss of a pet, I'm so sorry.
I know how much it hurts.
Animals are so innocent andloving and when we lose them
there can be a real void in ourpresent.
They're uncomplicated, theycenter us and make us feel safe.
They accept us for who we are.
They're loyal, nonjudgmentaland love us unconditionally.
Animals are created by God.
(34:14):
They're a gift to us andperhaps they're in our lives to
model to us the way we shouldtreat others.
So when you remember your sweetpet, think of the best thing
about them, Think of thosecharacteristics that you cherish
so much.
Then, in their memory, go outand strive to demonstrate those
(34:37):
traits as you interact withothers today.
Thanks for listening.
Well, hey everybody, and welcome back to Qualified,
the place where incrediblepeople share their stories of
overcoming great adversity andloss to inspire you and give you
hope.
I'm Michelle Heaton.
In every episode of the show,we explore grief and loss and
its impact on our lives.
We've talked about the loss ofa loved one spouses, parents,
(00:33):
friends, children and how griefcan take a toll on our emotions,
our bodies and ourrelationships.
It's hard stuff and I'm sograteful that you would take the
time to listen in as my guestsshare their stories with you and
together we find our way topeace and hope and a desire to
move forward with new purpose.
(00:54):
Well, I'm very excited tointroduce you to my guest today,
because she's the first one tobring this topic to the show and
I believe there are many peopleout there that may benefit from
what she has to share.
Today we'll talk about the lossof a beloved pet.
It may be your dog, a cat, abird, a horse you fill in the
(01:16):
blank but if you have loved andlost a precious pet, you
understand the sadness and painthat comes with it.
Precious pet, you understandthe sadness and pain that comes
with it.
Well, my guest today is anauthor and certified coach
committed to guiding individualsthrough life's profound moments
, including the impactfulexperience of pet loss.
In her book Pet Loss and DivineHealing, she provides a unique
(01:40):
perspective and hope to thosemourning their beloved
companions perspective and hopeto those mourning their beloved
companions.
She's also a wife and a motherof two incredible boxer boys,
spencer and Charlie.
Her name is Rachel Shirley andit's my honor to have her as my
guest on the show today.
Welcome to Qualified Rachel.
Rachel (01:59):
Oh, thank you so much.
It's such an honor to be hereand my heart is full of
gratitude that you said yes.
Michelle (02:09):
Well, thank you Wonderful, I'm excited to have
you.
Yeah, all right, Rachel, let'sstart off by you telling us
exactly what is a pet loss griefcoach, and how did you end up
in this business?
Rachel (02:22):
So a pet loss grief coach is somebody who comes
alongside grieving pet parentsand it can be pretty much in any
stage.
I have clients that come to meright when their sweet one
passed.
And then I have other clientsthat maybe it's been a year and
(02:44):
they just kind of find me andthey say, hey, wait a minute,
I've been really struggling withthis and I have guilt about
this.
So I really serve people rightwhere they are and it's really
specific to pet loss and griefand all of the how can I say it
crazy emotions we go through inany type of grief and loss.
(03:08):
So that's really what I've hadlost grief coaches.
I don't think there are toomany of me out there.
I'm actually a certifiedprofessional coach and have been
since 2006.
And I coached in many differentareas and I was working in
leadership and when COVID hit Iquit.
After a couple months I kind ofdecompressed and detoxed from
(03:33):
the leadership industry.
I just found my footing againand really got centered.
I asked my husband I wonder ifthere's such a thing as like pet
loss coach or something.
So we Googled it and it'sactually a thing.
So I found the guru of it and Iasked her if she would mentor
(03:54):
me.
And she said absolutely, andshe has a certification and the
rest is history.
So I've been doing it full timesince 2020, when COVID hit.
Michelle (04:12):
And I'm just beyond blessed to be able to be of
service in this capacity.
Well, that's great.
So it sounds like when you werein this leadership world, this
kind of business world, covidwoke a lot of us up to what is
it that's really in our heart,and it sounds like you decided
that your passion for animalswas something you wanted to just
take and run with.
So I commend you for doing that, for following your heart.
And I know part of the reasonfor that was because you had
(04:34):
experience with your own petloss.
That was pretty devastating toyou when you lost your dog
Winston.
So tell us a little bit aboutlosing him and what that was
like for you emotionally.
Rachel (04:47):
Thank you for that.
Yeah, it was a shock, you know,just like a lot of losses.
It was a big shock.
It was June of 2019.
And Winston was nine years oldand he had just had some blood
work done six months prior.
But I could notice that he wasdoing a bit of a decline and he
(05:12):
was not really wanting to eat.
I would kind of have to enticehim more than usual.
And then it got to a pointwhere he just refused and I said
something's going on.
And I was working from home andI asked my husband.
I said something's going on andI was working from home and I
asked my husband.
I said can you please take himto the vet?
Something's going on.
They took him in right away andI got a phone call that I never
(05:34):
expected the vet and my husbandcalled and said oh, am I crying
?
Michelle (05:40):
Oh, I'm sorry.
Rachel (05:41):
No, it's okay.
It's okay.
He said that he had a braintumor and cancer all over his
body and that it would be bestto put him down right away to
end his suffering.
And I mean, you talk about ashock, and so it was devastating
(06:04):
.
My husband brought him home andwe spent a few hours with him
and we made that very difficultdecision to take him back to
have his peaceful passing,because we didn't want him to
suffer, and so we took him backthat evening.
It was so difficult, and I thinkpart of the loss too was
(06:28):
Spencer, who was looking out thewindow like where's my brother,
you know, and so I was grievingfor myself and for Spencer, and
I'm sure your listeners canreally relate to.
You know, we grieve ourselves,but we take on the ones we love
their grief too, you know.
(06:49):
And so it was very, verychallenging to understand what
was happening and how ithappened, and all the questions
in my mind did we miss something?
How could this have happened?
Was it food that we gave him,you know?
All the things that we canthink of went racing through my
mind.
So it was very challenging, forsure.
Michelle (07:12):
Oh, thanks for opening up and I know those emotions,
they just stink.
You know, we had at one point wehad three dogs in our family
and one of them, like yours,just started behaving in a weird
way and when we took him insame kind of diagnosis just
instantly from one day to thenext, it was a tumor also, but
it was just so sudden and I didtake the other dog out for a
(07:35):
long walk to distract him andyou know, when he came home his
brother wasn't there.
And you're right.
I mean, they notice, they'reanimals, but they have emotions
like we do and it's hardnonetheless.
And you know, like I said inthe intro, in the show we talk
about losing people and we wantto make it clear that we're
talking about two differentthings.
(07:55):
Everybody knows that, but thereis a depth of emotion associated
with losing our fur babies.
So I and I also, you know Iwant to point out that you told
me that you and your husband didnot have children, and so your,
your dogs were your babies,yeah, and so I have a good
friend who's in the samesituation and she just loves her
(08:17):
cats and lost a cat recently.
So my question to you is whatwould you say, as a coach, to
someone who's like that, who'sin your position, whose children
are their animals and who'sgoing through a significant loss
like that?
Rachel (08:34):
Yeah, it's a great question, and there are a lot of
me out there there really areand and one of the things that I
really put emphasis on is thatyou aren't alone and that what
you're feeling is nothing to beashamed about.
(08:58):
You know, I I think that havingsuch a deep relationship with
our loved ones being animalsbecause we don't have children,
it's like my belief is that Goddesigned us to nurture.
It's in our DNA and, forwhatever reason, if we didn't
(09:19):
have children, that's okay.
That's okay.
We still want to nurture andtake care of, and animals are an
amazing way to do that.
They're God's creatures and soit's giving in that way too, and
it's okay to know that this waslike your child and that you're
(09:41):
going to get through it.
I think that's the biggestthing to know, and even though
it's so tremendously painful andloss is loss, you know, when we
don't have human children andwe have bird children, sometimes
society can look down on us,and I don't think it's
(10:03):
intentional.
Society can look down on us andI don't think it's intentional.
Michelle (10:07):
I think it's just they're like why?
Rachel (10:08):
don't you have kids or exactly.
You know and it's, and you know, I mean I give grace to
everybody.
But I think we kind of carrythat, we kind of feel you know,
when I say, don't have kids, Ihave my fur babies, most people
are like that's great.
I know there are a few that arelike I wonder why, right, it
really doesn't the why doesn'tmatter, it's the, it's the, what
(10:30):
it's that we love deeply, justlike you with with human
children and boy.
I I can only imagine, I can'timagine what you all have gone
through with losing your human.
You know, it's just and it'sdeep and we all can connect with
(10:53):
loss and grief.
And that's one of the beautifulreasons why I love that we're
having this conversation isbecause you really recognize
that loss is loss.
Michelle (11:06):
Yeah, it's really important to address it.
I really believe that and, youknow, you said something really
important.
It is painful.
I had a child, you know, andI've also had pets my whole life
.
I really believe that and yousaid something really important.
It is painful.
I had a child and I've also hadpets my whole life, and I
couldn't imagine being without adog around.
But having lost Sean at the ageof 17, one of the things that I
(11:28):
well, the first thing Iimmediately struggled with in my
loss was the concept of heaven,and all these questions swirl
in a parent's mind when theylose a child too.
You know, did I contribute insome way?
All the regrets and a millionthings?
But, what I wanted to know asevery parent does, even when
their kid is here is where is mykid at any given time and when
(11:51):
we lose them?
It was important to me to knowabout heaven and I ended up
getting my hands on a bookcalled Heaven by Randy Alcorn,
and he actually has a wholechapter on the concept of
animals and heaven and it reallymade me smile because of what
he had to say about it.
And then, when I read your book, you cited his book, but if you
could just take a minute andjust tell us a little bit about
(12:14):
what you learned from his bookand what you believe about this
topic.
Rachel (12:19):
Yes, yes, I'm so glad that you you're open to this
conversation and you know theimportance of it.
You know, because I mean,everybody is entitled to believe
what they believe, right, and Ibelieve in heaven as well, and
really, what I learned fromRandy's book, it was
(12:42):
confirmation.
You know, it was realconfirmation for me for what I
felt that we have a loving Godand that he created us, he
created the animals, he createdeverything, and his character is
for us to be united, and thisis not our home where we are
(13:03):
right now.
Heaven will be, and having thatparticular chapter in there
just was really, reallyencouraging that.
Hey, my intuition is right.
I mean, it just brings a joyand a joyful outlook and there
are so many scriptures thatpoint to it.
(13:24):
And I point out in my book thatI'm not a pastor.
I know the Bible but I don'tlike go around preaching all the
time.
But I will tell you there areseveral scriptures and I always
point when I have clients thatare interested in the topic, I
point them to resources so theycan come to their own conclusion
(13:48):
.
Michelle (13:49):
I love the way your book pulls those scripture
quotes out too at the beginningof the different chapters.
But since we're talking aboutyour book, in chapter six you
really get into relationships,and at one point you said my
clients often share with me thatthey're grieving more deeply
after losing their pet than whentheir parents or another
significant person in their lifepassed.
(14:11):
Can you explain to us why aperson might feel that way?
Rachel (14:17):
Yes, I've been fortunate and blessed to be able to work
with probably about 2,000families now, and I'll tell you,
it is super common and one ofthe most common things that
comes along with it is shame andquestioning themselves and how
(14:39):
that could be.
Usually, somebody will come tome and say I've never
experienced something thispainful before, even when I lost
my father.
My father and I were close andI lost my father.
My father and I were close, andone of the things that I
compassionately and with empathywill share with them is you
(15:06):
know, if we were to pull out acalculator and we were to
calculate how many days, youknow in how many years you were
with your pet, think about it.
They might have slept in yourbed with you.
You were with them 24-7.
And with our beautiful siblingsand parents and all of our
humans around us.
Absolutely losing them isincredibly painful, and maybe
(15:27):
one of the reasons why this is adifferent level of pain is
because of the fact that youspent so much time together.
The other thing that I pointout is that you're actually
withdrawing.
Your body is withdrawing.
When you pet your kitty, a bird, whatever your pet is, when you
(15:52):
pet them, the oxytocin and allof the brain chemicals are going
, and then all of a suddenthey're gone, and that constant
eye contact and those kisses andall of the cuddles and all of
the touch, that's completelygone.
And so we don't have that withour parents, right?
(16:13):
So I just kind of point outthose things and they start to
understand, oh, okay, well, I'mnot crazy, I'm like no, you
aren't, and it's okay to feelthat way.
And one last thing on this isthat everybody, who, who brings
that to the table when we'retalking, really missed their
(16:40):
human, you know, and and stilldoes, and, and you know there's,
there's just a beautiful partin their soul that still longs
for them.
And I encourage them that it'san and not an, or, right, it's
not, oh, I should grieve thisone or this one.
(17:01):
No, there's an and in there youcan grieve both and let's do
that together.
Michelle (17:08):
Yeah, that's kind of like we talked about before.
It's two different types ofgrief, two different types of
love two different types ofintimate relationship, if you
will.
But grief is grief and loss isloss, and I'm glad you brought
that up, because there might bepeople that are feeling guilt
and shame and it's good toaddress that.
(17:28):
I think your book does a greatjob of talking about that.
The story that came to mind asyou were talking is my little
dog, Sam.
He just followed me.
You learn to just be mindful ofyour stepping when you walk,
because you might step backwardsand step on a tail or a foot,
you know.
So you're just constantly awareof their presence, whereas your
(17:49):
parent might live far away andyou only see them a couple of
times a year.
Right, right, yeah, and youknow just the idea.
You know, those of us that loveanimals so deeply know that
they just bring such joy andwarmth.
And you know, today it feelslike more hotels are allowing
animals to come.
(18:09):
I know that more restaurants areallowing, you know, dog
friendly, this, dog friendly,that pet friendly, if you will.
And sometimes we even seepeople with emotional support
animals.
Yeah, and some of those peoplestruggle with PTSD or other
mental health issues, and it hasbeen discovered that pets can
bring a sense of comfort tosomeone who's experienced trauma
(18:31):
.
A sense of comfort to someonewho's experienced trauma.
Rachel (18:37):
So what is it about animals that brings us so much
peace?
Oh, I love this.
I think really it's the joythat they bring us.
You know, even in trauma, andour animals are 100% in the
present, unlike us, and so Ilike to share that.
Humans are complicated, right,and our relationships with
(19:00):
humans are complicated.
With pets they are not right.
It's just very we're in themoment with them, and so I
believe that they really centerus, they ground us and they give
us that safe place to not weara mask, to not have to be on.
(19:22):
We can just be ourselves.
And they love usunconditionally.
I always say this, you know,they are everything we wish
humans were Unconditional love,loyalty, forgiveness.
I mean, my goodness right.
And as humans we strive to bethat, but we fail and that's
(19:43):
okay.
But it just seems like, youknow, the emotional support that
we can get from our sweetanimals is just tremendous, and
to see the growth and the safetyin those relationships is just
remarkable, absolutelyremarkable.
They know that their dog, cat,bird, horse is not going to let
(20:07):
them down like a human is.
Michelle (20:10):
Yeah, all of those attributes that you called out
are absolutely true, and I wasthinking.
There's one more that I loveabout animals is that they're
just nonjudgmental.
Rachel (20:23):
You know they don't care what you look like sound like
you know, they're just rightthere with you.
Michelle (20:28):
And what's a shame is that, like you said, it's
different from people, and thenthe sad part of it is that their
lives are so much shorter thanpeople.
Rachel (20:36):
Right yeah.
I have a theory on that one.
So when I lost Winston, Iwrestled with it.
I was like why?
Why so short and such a deeplove?
And I thought about people whohave lost loved ones so short,
you know, like you in 17 years.
(20:58):
And then I would have clientsask me the same thing and I just
came to the point, with God onit, that he has designed it
where we can have multiplethrough our lifetimes.
He has designed it where we canhave multiple through our
lifetimes.
My belief is that our pets giveus the most unconditional love
(21:19):
and everything that our heavenlyfather is, and he has brought
these animals into our lives forus to experience a glimpse of
how he really cares for us.
It's a wonderful way for us tolearn the lesson that our sweet
one gave us in life and to payit forward and teach those to
(21:41):
others how to be a good human.
Michelle (21:44):
You know, when you were talking about that, I was
thinking, you know, we lost ourdog, sam, last year in January.
And people will say to us areyou going to get another dog?
And you and I talked a littlebit about that, but what are
your personal thoughts ongetting another dog after loss?
Rachel (22:04):
Yeah, my personal thoughts are that God designed
us to nurture, and I have beenon the phone with, and Zooms
with clients who feel like theywill be betraying or replacing,
(22:25):
and we just have a conversation,an open conversation, about
it's not replacing and it's notbeing disrespectful to your pet.
That passed if you were to openyour heart to love another one,
and it's a totally differentrelationship.
And so there's this naturalpart in us that wants to nurture
(22:49):
.
That's how we're designed.
So when I'm working withclients and I'm supporting them,
I let them know that it's theirchoice.
So really, my viewpoint is thatwe're here to love as many as
we can while we're on earth in aresponsible way, and you can
(23:10):
love and grieve at the same time.
I literally got a text.
I can cry right now.
I wish I had my phone with meto read it.
He would be okay with it.
But a client.
He said to me and I haven'tspoken to him probably for six
months, maybe, maybe a littlebit less.
He texts me and he said I wantyou to know how much you bless
(23:32):
me, rachel, because you taughtme that I can grieve and open my
heart to new love.
And you're right.
Look who we just got and youknow it was a picture of a sweet
one from a shelter, and I getstories like that all the time
because it really is part of mycalling to just let people off
(23:53):
the hook.
If they want to have anotherone, they can.
If they don't, that's okay.
But my belief is yes,absolutely, because you know the
joy that's going to be comingfrom it and it's a wonderful
experience.
Michelle (24:08):
So, yeah, yeah, I agree with you.
I used to have people say to meyou know, you and your husband,
your dog's the luckiest dog inthe world, because I know how
much we love animals, so they'relike well you know this dog's
got it made.
So you know we were kind ofcreated to be pet people, and
you're right.
So another thing that you mayhave experience with with your,
(24:29):
your clients, is you and Italked about you know when.
When my son, Sean, passed away,he was 17.
And when my dog passed awayafter Sean's death, my dog was
also 17.
We had him for a long time andI've talked to a lot of people
who have lost a loved one andthen they find so much comfort
from their pet and then thatanimal dies and there's a thing
(24:53):
that we refer to as cumulativegrief when people experience
multiple losses.
So can you talk about that?
Have you experienced that withclients?
Rachel (25:11):
Yes, a huge majority of clients actually have life
circumstances where it feelslike domino effects to them.
You know they've lost differentthings a job, you know, a parent
, a husband, a wife, all youknow all types of loss and then
their sweet pet goes too, youknow.
And so it really is just sittingin that space with them and
(25:31):
allowing them to know that it'simportant to be gentle with
yourself and to haveself-compassion and to realize
that we don't know why all theselosses are happening.
And the more that we focus onthe why question, the more it
pulls us away from reallymourning and doing the hard work
(25:57):
of grieving, and so it's justgiving that safe place to say,
listen, I am so sorry that allof this loss has happened and I
can't imagine what you're goingthrough and we're going to get
through this together in any waythat you need I'm here for you
(26:19):
way that you need, I'm here foryou.
And we talk about a supportsystem and how they can find,
you know, and tap into theirsupport systems whether they
were already going to a griefgroup or different things like
that and just really equippingand resourcing and moving in a
forward direction and honoringthe grief at the same time.
(26:43):
Right, but yes, I have many,many clients that that are in
that position.
Michelle (26:49):
You know, and that's very well said, Many of my
guests who have been grieftherapists and grief experts
have said those same words.
You know it's very important tonot suppress those emotions
Right same words, it's veryimportant to not suppress those
emotions, honor them, but thenalso moving forward and not
getting too dragged down in theemotion of it that you're
paralyzed, but all really reallygood stuff.
(27:10):
I know throughout thisdiscussion we've talked about
faith and we've talked aboutbelieving that our pets are
created by God and so what?
just if you could summarize forme what role faith plays in the
services that you offer.
Rachel (27:26):
Yeah, it's a great question.
And, michelle, I'll tell yousomething funny.
So on my website I say I'm awoman of faith, and so it's
there.
But about 80% of my clientsdon't believe in God or are
angry with God or whatever itmay be, and that's okay, and so
(27:49):
it's just so important foreverybody to not feel judged and
for them to have their ownbeliefs and come to their own
conclusions.
Come to their own conclusionsand so I really believe it's
just being a loving, safe placefor people to land and they can
have any religion or anythingthat they want, because grief is
(28:11):
grief and that actually is abig thing for me.
Some of my clients I'll praywith, but I pray on my own.
Some of my clients I'll praywith, but I pray on my own.
Behind the scenes.
I ask God any client that'scoming to me, please bless their
heart and I'll know specificsand I pray for them.
But truthfully, I would say 80%of my clients we don't talk
(28:36):
about it, but they have thisbeautiful place to start asking
questions and then I'll justspeak like I am with you.
You know, it's just anopportunity, right, it's an
opportunity to plant some seedsand then it's God's
responsibility to take itwherever he wants right.
So it's it really is.
(28:58):
It's a joy and it's one of thereasons why I chose to do this
line of work.
Michelle (29:05):
I think that you know God knew what he was doing and
the fact that you are a woman offaith, you model those
characteristics that areChrist-like.
I mean, Jesus himself was a manof sorrows and he was well
acquainted with grief and youknow, to some that are not
Christian that sounds morbid andsad.
But we know that there isbeauty.
(29:27):
We talk about it all the timeon the podcast.
We know that there is beauty inthe adversity that we go
through and it takes time to getto that place.
Where we see it, we don't losesomeone and we feel that way on
day one.
But you and I know, and I thinkthat uniquely qualifies you to
be a really good pet grief losscoach.
(29:47):
So thank you for all of that,Absolutely.
Rachel (29:50):
Thank you.
Michelle (29:52):
Yeah, yeah.
So I want to ask you now totell us what are those big life
lessons that you've learnedthrough both losing your sweet
pet, your fur baby, and thenthrough coaching all these
people through their hard times.
What are those lessons that youcould share with somebody who
might be hurting right now andgoing through the loss of an
animal that they love?
Rachel (30:13):
When we go through grief , sometimes we can have
expectations of how others.
We would want them to show upand friends abandon or, you know
, because they don't know how tohandle grief themselves or how
to talk to us.
Family members can do that, soexpectations can be challenging
(30:36):
and so having self-compassionand being gentle with ourselves
is really important.
Another one is in the kindnessto yourself.
Be real honest.
I think honesty is where thehealing happens and, like you
(30:57):
mentioned, when we don'tsuppress our feelings and we can
be really honest with ourselves, I believe we really can see
the beauty of our character andhow well we love.
And to take that and moveforward, like with Sam, your
(31:18):
sweet pup that passed.
With Sam, your sweet pup thatpassed, I mean it's so beautiful
that you still have lessons andyou carry them out through your
day, but you don't have to say,oh well, I learned this from
Sam, but you did, but you stilljust carry it out and I think
that's a really big thing thatwe be the best that we can be in
(31:39):
our lives because they taughtus to love so deeply.
Michelle (31:43):
Yeah, and all those attributes of a dog that you
mentioned before.
Those are things that we wantto model toward other people in
life, so it's almost like Godcan use our animals to be the
greatest teachers to us.
Rachel (31:56):
Yeah, right.
Michelle (31:57):
Yeah, I love it.
Well, thank you.
Those are really great lessons.
Is there anything else that youwant to offer that I failed to
ask you?
Rachel (32:07):
You have such beautiful questions and your grace and all
the work that you're doing isabsolutely incredible.
So I think we really gave somefood for thought for some people
and hopefully we said somecomforting words that they
aren't alone in this.
And I just I really want tohonor your son, you know, and
(32:33):
everything that you and yourhusband and family have gone
through and how you turned thatpain into a big purpose in
serving in this capacity.
So thank you for that.
I know that loss was very, verydifficult, and then to have
your sweet pup pass too.
So, yeah, definitely.
Michelle (32:55):
Thank you very much, Rachel.
That means a lot coming fromyou.
And again, you just proven tome that you were born to do this
.
So I'm grateful for what you doand continue to do it, because
I know that you're making a lotof people happy and, having read
through your book and readingsome of the testimonials, is a
link to your website in the shownotes so that listeners can go
(33:17):
there, read about your servicesand also get a copy of your book
.
Rachel (33:26):
So at this point.
Michelle (33:27):
I just want to tell you thank you.
Thank you so much for a greatinterview.
It was a pleasure having you onthe show.
Rachel (33:33):
Oh, thank you so much.
It's an honor, thank you.
Michelle (33:52):
So, for those of you listening, if you're grieving
the loss of a pet, I'm so sorry.
I know how much it hurts.
Animals are so innocent andloving and when we lose them
there can be a real void in ourpresent.
They're uncomplicated, theycenter us and make us feel safe.
They accept us for who we are.
They're loyal, nonjudgmentaland love us unconditionally.
Animals are created by God.
(34:14):
They're a gift to us andperhaps they're in our lives to
model to us the way we shouldtreat others.
So when you remember your sweetpet, think of the best thing
about them, Think of thosecharacteristics that you cherish
so much.
Then, in their memory, go outand strive to demonstrate those
(34:37):
traits as you interact withothers today.
Thanks for listening.
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