May 24, 2024 • 27 mins
How are you going to feel when your child leaves for college? Have you given it any thought in advance and how prepared are you to face an empty nest?
In this episode I talk with Stacy Kaye, an award-winning journalist and source of encouragement for those facing the silence of an empty nest. Listen in and be inspired as we explore the depth of parental love, the pain that comes with letting go, and the new opportunities that await in this transitional phase of life.
https://www.stacykayebooks.com/
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Episode Transcript
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Michelle (00:09):
Well, hey everybody, and welcome back to Qualified,
the place where incrediblepeople share their stories of
overcoming great adversity andloss to inspire you and give you
hope.
I'm Michelle Heaton.
Grief and loss are words thatwe often associate with death
and mourning, but, as youprobably already know, we can
(00:32):
also experience grief and lossunrelated to death.
We can lose a job and grieve.
Get a divorce and grieve.
Forfeit a dream and grieve andgrieve.
Forfeit a dream and grieve.
Whenever something or someonesignificant in our lives is no
longer a part of our lives, wecan feel sorrow and maybe even
(00:53):
depression.
Well, my guest today hasexperienced her share of loss in
life.
She understands that lossbrings grief and that grief can
cause emotions to spiral, buther most recent loss had an
impact on her that she didn'tsee coming.
Today, we'll talk about thegrief that many parents feel
(01:17):
when their children move out ofthe home, called Empty Nest
Syndrome.
In addition to being a wife, amother and a grandmother, she's
also an award-winning journalistand editor.
Her recently published bookDamaged Goods a devotional for
the slightly imperfect, exploresrelevant issues Christian women
face today, offering hope andencouragement.
(01:40):
Her name is Stacy Kay and it'smy honor to have her as my guest
on the show.
Welcome to Qualified Stacy.
Stacy (01:48):
Thank you, I'm so happy to be here today.
Michelle (01:50):
Great, Glad to have you.
So when we first met we had aconversation about your early
life and the losses youexperienced in your first
marriage.
Can you just take a minute andkind of summarize that time in
your life and how all of thosedifferent losses left you
feeling emotionally?
Stacy (02:07):
Oh, absolutely.
So I got married right out ofhigh school and I had my first
baby soon after that.
And then, you know, at somepoint my husband became abusive.
You know, it's one of thosethings.
You know, I don't really knowwhen it started, but it just
kind of spiraled into that.
And it wasn't just physical,you know, it was mainly verbal
(02:28):
and emotional, and that reallymesses with your head when
you're in a relationship likethat.
And I just kind of entered thisphase of my life where I felt
like it was just wave after waveof trauma, if you will.
So I just never felt like Icould get my head above water.
And so during that time I had amiscarriage, my daughter became
(02:49):
really ill and we didn't know,you know, what was really
causing it.
And then so we were kind ofgoing through all of that.
And during the midst of that Ibecame pregnant again and my
husband told me he didn't wantto be married to me anymore.
And that really threw me for aloop, because no one in my
family had ever been divorcedand I had not seen that.
(03:11):
I didn't ever picture that formy life.
I was raised in a family wherepeople just stay together, you
don't get divorced and you justwork it out.
If you have problems, you workit out.
So one day he did something youknow abusive that my daughter
saw she was three at the timeand I just decided right then
that, you know, my children arenot going to be raised in a home
(03:32):
where they see their mothermistreated or abused.
And so, even though I eventuallywas the one who left, I really
had to deal with that wholebrokenness of just not knowing
what to do, not knowing where togo, where to turn, and I felt
like I was just, I just feltcompletely broken.
(03:52):
I believed all the things thathe said about me that I was
unlovable and that I was uglyand I was stupid, and just all
the things he said to me overand over again.
I believe those to be true ofthings he said to me over and
over again.
I believe those to be true.
And I still distinctly rememberjust like laying on the couch
and just burying my head in mymom's lap and just sobbing and
just repeating those things toher and I can't imagine how she
(04:15):
must have felt, trying tocomfort me at that moment.
But I don't ever remember beingfeeling that low.
You know that was probably thelowest point in my life.
Was right then?
Michelle (04:27):
Well, I'm so sorry you had to go through all of that
Stacy Dealing with domesticabuse, a miscarriage, an illness
with your daughter and then adivorce.
That's a lot of adversity andloss, and I wanted you to take
us back to that time and tell usbriefly about it, because we're
now going to talk about howthings eventually changed in
(04:48):
your life.
You said you began to learnmore about what a healthy
relationship should look likeand then at some point after
your divorce, you married again.
So you had your two childrenfrom the first marriage and then
you married your currenthusband and you two had two
children together and then yourlife changed and evolved over
(05:09):
the years.
You're in a healthy marriagenow with four great kids, but
now at some point you facehaving a senior in high school
and then another one, and thenanother one, and you had to say
goodbye to your children one byone as they left for college.
You told me that when you facedan empty nest, you felt a new
(05:30):
kind of grief and emotionaldistress that you hadn't
experienced before.
Can you talk about that?
Stacy (05:37):
So I felt like there was a mixture of emotions, because
on the one hand, you have thatexcitement for your kids and for
their future and for what mightbe for them, and then you also
have that just that terrorinside of, okay, they're out on
their own.
I'm not involved in theday-to-day anymore.
How, you know, did they listento anything that I told them?
(05:59):
You know, how are they going tofare on their own, you know.
But then on that other side ofit is just that sadness of okay,
this part of my life is over, Ican't go back.
Anything that I wanted to dodifferently, it's too late.
You know, I've done that, I'mdone.
And it was really scary too tothink, okay, I've arrived at
(06:21):
this point in my life.
I'm, you know, a middle-agedwoman and, you know, do I even
know what I want to do, you know?
So it was kind of scary becauseI felt like I was just looking
at, like all of everything thatI had done before, and I'm
looking ahead, thinking what doI do now?
What's next?
Michelle (06:39):
Yeah, I get it.
It feels like whenever there'sloss in our lives, we start to
realize we have decisions tomake about the future who we are
now, what we will become,what's our purpose.
So can you tell us a littlemore about the feelings you had
when the reality hit and each ofthose kids went away to school?
Stacy (06:59):
When I dropped my daughter off in college, I felt
like I left, you know, my heartthere in her dorm.
I was probably crying againbecause it just felt like I was
leaving a physical part of meand I know part of that is my
control freak nature but thenthe other, and just being
terrified because she was myfirst and she's my only girl,
(07:22):
and just being nervous aboutthat.
And then when I left, my oldestson stayed kind of close to us
and it wasn't and he was veryready, and so I felt more
confident.
But my third son, my thirdchild, my second son, went to
college.
(07:49):
He went six hours away and itwas the longest drive of my
entire life because he's myintrovert, he is, um, he is not
comfortable in, you know, likean unusual situations where he
doesn't know people, he's notsomebody that's going to go out
and talk to you and things likethat, which is funny because he
was.
You know he was a pitcher and ashortstop in sports and he was
out there doing his thing.
But you know he was a pitcherand a shortstop in sports and he
was out there doing his thing.
But you know, he was my childwhen he was a baby, if a child,
even as a toddler, if someonewould speak to him, he would cry
(08:10):
like a stranger, like he was.
So it was really like we workedon him, like getting out there
and feeling comfortable, and sofor him to go and want to go to
school that far away and none ofhis friends were there, he
didn't know anybody.
I just it broke my heart and Ijust kept asking my husband can
we just go back and get, like Icould just stay for just a few,
(08:31):
like I could stay in a hotel formaybe for a week or for a few
days, you know, and you can comeback and get me, but I
literally I remember just cryingpretty much the whole way home,
just thinking this is never,ever going to work.
How is this going to work?
We're going to be back nextweek picking him up.
Michelle (08:47):
Yeah, when you were saying you know, maybe I'll stay
in a hotel nearby, I wasthinking I think that's how I'd
feel too.
I mean, it seems like there'snothing incremental about it.
It's just today.
He leaves and we drop him offand we go back home.
So, yeah, it almost seems likewouldn't it be better to let him
have a first night with mom anddad, only 10 minutes away?
(09:09):
So I can imagine a lot ofpeople would feel that way, and
I think it's totallyunderstandable right.
Stacy (09:15):
Yeah, it's just like I'm like we're just dropping him off
.
He knows nobody and you know.
So that was, I think, thatadded to the stress of it, just
thinking.
And it's so funny because nowyou know he runs these meetings
and he has to go and givepresentations to these board
people and like I mean, he'slike he can do all the things
you know, and it's just you know, it was exactly what he needed.
Michelle (09:45):
It's just that I wanted to just stay there and
like, hover over him longer andkeep him under my wings as long
as I could.
Well, I'm thinking aboutsomebody who might be listening
right now and they're reallystruggling with missing their
child and wanting to get in thecar and go see him.
What would you say to thatperson to encourage them?
Stacy (10:00):
So I completely understand that that desire and
that want to go and just like bewith them is so strong.
But I do think that there is,you know, I think that God kind
of makes it.
Where they start to break awayfrom us, right, at a certain age
they start to get to what?
(10:21):
Maybe junior or senior year,they start to kind of pull away
and they start to becomedifficult to even live with.
And I think that that's kind ofGod's grace.
And by the time it's time forthem to go, we want them to go,
but then when they do actuallygo, then we want to grab them
back in, right, because we'vekind of forgotten.
But I do think if you, you knowwhen, when, when you have those
(10:44):
feelings, I think you need toremember that they are out there
and they're forming newfriendships and they're making
new connections and they'removing on, and if you've taught
them the things that they need,they're going to soar time, then
they don't really have theopportunity to make the
connections they need to makeand even make mistakes.
(11:13):
It's okay for them to makemistakes because you're still
there, because at some pointyou're no longer going to be
there and you're no longer goingto be their catch, and so you
know, for them to be able to dothis now, while you're still a
little bit close by even ifyou're not right there, but
you're just a phone call away,then that's really important, I
think.
Michelle (11:38):
That's really good advice.
Probably hard stuff to apply,but good, sound advice, thank
you.
I think I also remember youtelling me about a friend who
really struggled to let go andshe was even tracking her
children at school.
Stacy (11:47):
She is one of those like helicopter parents right, yeah.
And so she wanted to know, likeshe wanted to track her kids.
She wanted to know exactlywhere they were.
And they had to be home, evenin college, like, like I'm
looking, why are you not in yourapartment, why are you not here
and see, I wasn't that.
(12:07):
I wasn't that mom, because Ifelt like, just like I said, I
do think that you want them tobe safe and I understand that's
an important part of the worldthat we live in right now.
But I also understand that theyhave to make it on their own.
We're not always going to bethere.
We don't know what tomorrow isgoing to bring.
So if they don't have us, arethey still going to be able to
make that right choice?
So if they don't have us, arethey still going to be able to
(12:29):
make that right choice?
This is to me, when they buildtheir self-confidence so that
they can go out and they canstep into the world and know
that mom and dad are still there.
But I don't have to have themtake off the training wheels.
They never get that opportunityto really grow and soar until
(12:51):
they have to and they have nochoice.
Michelle (12:54):
Yeah, and I'm sure a lot of people feel that way, men
and women, and I'm sure there'speople listening that are in
the midst of it right now.
So I'm glad that you kind ofgot into the detail of those
emotions because people canunderstand.
It's normal and natural,something that a mother goes
through.
So what did you end up doingwith it?
As you were in the midst of it,how did you cope with the way
(13:15):
you were feeling, and was thereany place that you could turn to
kind of get support orcompassion?
Stacy (13:20):
So I don't think I handled it well at all because
at first I just threw myselfinto work.
I took a promotion, I got sobusy at work that I was either
at work or I was at home talkingabout work, thinking about work
on phone with somebody fromwork, you know.
And so I think I did thatbecause I just didn't want to go
(13:41):
home and be in that empty house, you know.
And my poor husband, you know,he tried to comfort me and he
tried to be there for me and buthonestly, he got frustrated
because, you know, I was alwaysjust focused on work and he was
kind of looking forward to, like, this new phase of our life and
I wasn't really there for it.
Michelle (14:02):
Yeah, well, I'm glad you brought that up, because I
was thinking about the maleperspective.
So talk a little bit more abouthow he felt about everything.
Stacy (14:11):
So I think his process was a lot shorter than mine.
I think, on the one hand and Idon't even know if you would
call it grief, I know thatthere's some reflection there
but since we married and Ialready came with two children
and then we had two childrenquickly after we never had that
couple's time, and so he wasreally looking forward to kind
(14:32):
of this new phase of like we candate, we can go out and we
don't have to think about, youknow, our kids or their extra
activities or whatever.
For him, when I wasn't reallythere and you know I was so
focused on you know work andeverything.
But I do know that he he wouldtell me sometimes that he would
(14:56):
see little kids practicingt-ball or having a baseball game
or something at a park and hewould pull over sometimes and
just watch for a little bit andhe would want me to, like we
would go.
We had one of our kids wasreally into band and is a
professional musician and he sohe would want to go to like band
contests and just kind of.
I think he's very nostalgic andit kind of helps him to.
He likes to reminisce aboutthings like that.
(15:17):
So that's kind of how he hasworked through.
It is just little things likethat, okay.
Michelle (15:23):
Yeah, you hear people talk about different ways that
the man and the woman deal witha child going to college, and
I've heard so many differentstories.
It's interesting to hear yourperspective and I'm sure
everybody's different.
But you know, as I was readingthrough your book, in chapter 18
, you talk specifically aboutthis and I want to read because
it was very good.
But you said, when the games,the concerts, the plays, the
(15:46):
practices and rehearsals and allthe extracurriculars you felt
were running you ragged, screechto a halt, you're suddenly
faced with a black void ofnothingness.
Some might say a blank page.
But what good is a blank pagewhen you don't know what to
write?
And I thought, wow, I'm justthinking about how you went from
(16:06):
all of that to being faced witha blank page.
So it sounds like it had animpact on you and your identity.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthat?
Stacy (16:19):
So for me, I was that mom .
You know I volunteered foreverything.
I was the homeroom mom, theGirl Scouts, the PTA band, any
kind of sports.
If you could coordinate it orvolunteer for it, I probably did
it.
So and all of the things that Idid, they coordinated around my
kids' activities and interests.
(16:39):
Not really mine per se, it'sbecause I was so focused on, you
know, what they wanted andmaking every moment.
You know, count for them andcount for us.
You know, count for them andcount for us.
You know, as a family, that Ididn't really carve out any time
for myself or to think aboutwhat my interests were, what I
really had hoped for, dreamedabout, and I just really think
that my identity became, youknow, okay, I'm Tori's mom, I'm
(17:04):
Ty's mom, you know, and that'swhat they call you.
They don't even know your nameanymore, you're just so-and-so's
mom.
And so I think that we allstart out, you know, with hopes
and plans and what we think wewant to do in our lives.
And then for me, I just tabledthat very early on and they just
kind of set, you know, allthose plans set so unattended
(17:24):
for so long that I didn't reallythink they applied to me
anymore by the time I got aroundto having time for me, and so
you know, you change right andyou're not the same person
anymore that you were when youwere 18, 19, 20 years old and
making these plans or whatever.
And so, all of a sudden, I hadto just think what do I want to
do for me, and who am I, and howis this going to look, this
(17:50):
next phase of my life?
I'm still relatively young, andwhat do I want to do?
Because I didn't have anidentity apart from being their
mom.
Michelle (17:58):
Yeah, and we talked a little bit about that before.
When people are faced with whatdo I want to do with my life?
It could be at any kind ofcrossroads, it could be empty
nest, it could be the death of aspouse or a child Anytime
there's a change like this andyou're faced with that.
I've talked to people or I'veasked them and often the answer
is I don't know.
(18:18):
I don't know, I don't know.
So I like that we're havingthis conversation, because
you're going to talk a littlebit about how you use the
opportunity to search out yourpurpose and move forward in your
life.
So talk about that.
Stacy (18:31):
Yeah, because there I was .
You know, my kids are all goneand they're off on their own,
and my husband was frustratedwith me because I was never home
and you know, when I was, I wasjust so wrapped up in the work
and the job wasn't evensomething I enjoyed anymore, in
fact, I dreaded going there.
And so I really just had tostop and reflect.
(18:52):
And I think it was sointeresting because two of my
staff brought me the samedevotional and the same within a
week.
It wasn't the exact samedevotional, but it was written
by the same person and it wasthe same like it was a daily
devotional.
And I thought, okay, somebody'strying to get my attention here
.
And so I thought, okay, I'mgoing to stop, and I started
(19:13):
reading through I take turnsreading through both of the
devotionals and really prayingthrough that and really seeking
what I thought God wanted for meat this moment in my life.
And I ended up.
Just, I changed careers, I wrotethis book and I, you know, I
really felt like God had laid iton my heart a long time ago,
(19:33):
but I never really had the timeto do it and think about it and
I thought this is the time.
This is the time for me to putthis out here and do this, and I
thought this is the time.
This is the time for me to putthis out here and do this, and
just in hopes that it can helpother people who are going
through something similar,because, even though our
experiences are not going to bethe same, I think the fact that
you know, everybody goes throughsomething Nobody gets through
(19:54):
life unscathed, so but thoseshared experiences, I think
really connect us and if we canbe transparent with one another
and we can be honest and kind ofput away that Instagram facade
and just say this is whathappened and this is how I felt,
then we can have realconnections and real experiences
and I think that can actuallyhelp in the long run.
(20:15):
So that was my goal.
Michelle (20:17):
Yeah, I agree with you 100%.
Congratulations for doing thatand for actually taking the time
to be prayerful and ask God.
You know, what should I do withthis time?
Because I think when I did askpeople, when I mentioned that
before, it was because I wasstruggling with it myself and I
was facing retirement without myson and kind of feeling like I
(20:38):
have you know what is my purpose, I don't know, kind of feeling
like I have you know what is mypurpose, I don't know.
And the people that I talked to,prayer, didn't always come up.
It was just kind of like, well,I've always liked to sew or I've
always liked to garden, youknow, and all of those things
are good.
But you talked about work beforepouring yourself into work
which could be good, could bebring income in, but could be a
(20:58):
distraction, you know, could beused as a distraction, and
sometimes those other things,like gardening and sewing or
whatever, could be justsomething that we enjoy doing.
But when you go to God, he willreveal to you, I believe, kind
of a purpose, kind of what wewere created to do, and that's
what you did.
So I love it that you wrote thebook.
Like I said, I really enjoyedreading it and I think that your
(21:22):
experiences will help otherpeople, so I commend you for
that.
On that note, I want to ask you, having gone through a lot of
the other losses in your lifeand then coming to this point in
your life later and then losingthe children and kind of
arriving at a new purpose, canyou share with us some lessons
(21:43):
that you learned through all ofit that might help someone who
is struggling with empty nest.
Stacy (21:48):
Yes, absolutely.
I really think it's importantthat you don't wait until your
kids have left or they're aboutto leave, because you need to
start planning kind of your nextphase while you're still in it
right.
Because you need to startplanning kind of your next phase
while you're still in it Right.
Because I see it all the timewhere parents like they're
waiting until senior year oreven last semester of senior
year, and then they're all of asudden, now what you know, and
(22:11):
they have all these emotions,they're reeling with emotions
from you know just thegraduation and whatever's
happening next, and then I thinkthat it can kind of be
overwhelming, and I think a lotof especially moms, I think we
can get really depressed andreally get sidetracked.
So I think it's important thatwe kind of keep that in mind and
even though you know, of coursethere's times that you know
(22:32):
somebody else is going to be thefocus, we're not the main focus
and that's how it should be.
Our children should be ourfocus when they're in the home,
but that doesn't mean that wecompletely set aside ourselves.
I mean, take a class or, youknow, find some friends that do
the things that you like to do,join a group, so that you just
are carving out a little bit oftime for your own interests and
(22:52):
staying plugged in to like thecore of who you are and not have
every single thing that you dobe about your children and your
family, and I think that's superimportant.
And then I also, for me, I think, investing in real, true
friendships are key, because tome, a true friendship requires a
(23:12):
time commitment.
It requires you to give andreceive grace and you know,
those people to me are soundingboards and they're my husband is
wonderful, he's a wonderfulfriend to me.
But having those femalefriendships that they kind of
can relate to me because they'vebeen where I've been or they
(23:32):
have some of the similaremotions that this maternal, you
know, emotion that we have, Ifeel like that's beneficial to
me, to just have that time tohave that person to talk to.
So I think that if, if you canfind, you know, a friend or a
group of friends, I think that'swonderful.
And then I also think justgiving yourself that time to
grieve because I don't thinkthat we really recognize it as
(23:56):
you know, something to grievenecessarily, something to grieve
necessarily, but I do thinkit's like to your point, it's a
loss.
You know we are no longer inthat phase.
We're not going back, it's gone, and so we have to understand
that we're moving to the nextphase and our relationship with
our children will change and ourrelationship with our spouse
will change, and there's just alot that changes there and you
(24:18):
have to give yourself some graceand give yourself some time to
work through those emotions andnot just pretend like it's not
happening.
So I think that those arereally important because there's
a lot that's wrapped up in that, not just sadness and
excitement.
There's just a lot in one bigbundle that we need to kind of
work through.
Michelle (24:37):
Yeah, I love it.
Thank you for all of those.
Those are very good practicaltips as well.
And, like you just said, lossis loss, and we talked about the
fact that when I lost my son,there was an issue about
identity as a mother.
You know, am I a mother anymore?
And I think there's a certainaspect of that too, when
children leave with empty nestbecause several of your children
(24:58):
are married now, right, howmany?
Yes three.
Stacy (25:02):
Three of the four are married.
Michelle (25:03):
So that creates a new dynamic.
When they get married, you know, do they need me anymore?
So I think that was.
Those are very good tips.
It is an important job it'sprobably the most important job
to be a mom, but don't losesight of who you are.
Very good, thank you for that.
Okay, well, Stacy, I will put alink to your website in the
(25:24):
show notes so that listeners canget a copy of your devotional,
because I think it's reallycomforting and meaningful.
So at this point, I just wantto say thank you so much for
agreeing to come on the show andbe my guest.
It was great getting to knowyou.
Stacy (25:36):
Yes, thank you for having me.
I really appreciate it.
Michelle (25:40):
So for those of you listening, you may be facing an
empty nest for the first time inyour life and it may be taking
its toll on you.
You might be missing your childlike crazy and resisting the
urge to call or text or evendrive over to see them and make
sure they're okay.
But, like Stacy said, thosefeelings are normal and it's
(26:02):
natural for a parent to grievethe loss of their children at
home.
But I hope you found somecomfort in Stacy's words about
letting them make their own way,letting them make new friends
and even letting them make somemistakes.
But in addition to the courageit takes to let them soar, don't
(26:23):
forget yourself in the process.
Remember that God has greatplans for your life too, and
that this time in your life canbe used to discover new purpose
and a deeper relationship withGod.
Don't forget to seek Him firstin all your plans and seek Him
in your sorrow as you grieveyour loss.
Seek him first in all yourplans and seek him in your
(26:45):
sorrow as you grieve your loss.
He's near to the brokenheartedand he works all things for good
for those who love him and arecalled according to his purpose.
So enjoy the new opportunitiesand trust that your kids will be
okay.
And as you walk through thisnew challenge in your life and
you begin to heal and eventhrive in your newfound
endeavors, just remember thatone day you'll be able to help
(27:06):
someone else with the lessonsyou learned in your loss.
Thanks for listening.
Well, hey everybody, and welcome back to Qualified,
the place where incrediblepeople share their stories of
overcoming great adversity andloss to inspire you and give you
hope.
I'm Michelle Heaton.
Grief and loss are words thatwe often associate with death
and mourning, but, as youprobably already know, we can
(00:32):
also experience grief and lossunrelated to death.
We can lose a job and grieve.
Get a divorce and grieve.
Forfeit a dream and grieve andgrieve.
Forfeit a dream and grieve.
Whenever something or someonesignificant in our lives is no
longer a part of our lives, wecan feel sorrow and maybe even
(00:53):
depression.
Well, my guest today hasexperienced her share of loss in
life.
She understands that lossbrings grief and that grief can
cause emotions to spiral, buther most recent loss had an
impact on her that she didn'tsee coming.
Today, we'll talk about thegrief that many parents feel
(01:17):
when their children move out ofthe home, called Empty Nest
Syndrome.
In addition to being a wife, amother and a grandmother, she's
also an award-winning journalistand editor.
Her recently published bookDamaged Goods a devotional for
the slightly imperfect, exploresrelevant issues Christian women
face today, offering hope andencouragement.
(01:40):
Her name is Stacy Kay and it'smy honor to have her as my guest
on the show.
Welcome to Qualified Stacy.
Stacy (01:48):
Thank you, I'm so happy to be here today.
Michelle (01:50):
Great, Glad to have you.
So when we first met we had aconversation about your early
life and the losses youexperienced in your first
marriage.
Can you just take a minute andkind of summarize that time in
your life and how all of thosedifferent losses left you
feeling emotionally?
Stacy (02:07):
Oh, absolutely.
So I got married right out ofhigh school and I had my first
baby soon after that.
And then, you know, at somepoint my husband became abusive.
You know, it's one of thosethings.
You know, I don't really knowwhen it started, but it just
kind of spiraled into that.
And it wasn't just physical,you know, it was mainly verbal
(02:28):
and emotional, and that reallymesses with your head when
you're in a relationship likethat.
And I just kind of entered thisphase of my life where I felt
like it was just wave after waveof trauma, if you will.
So I just never felt like Icould get my head above water.
And so during that time I had amiscarriage, my daughter became
(02:49):
really ill and we didn't know,you know, what was really
causing it.
And then so we were kind ofgoing through all of that.
And during the midst of that Ibecame pregnant again and my
husband told me he didn't wantto be married to me anymore.
And that really threw me for aloop, because no one in my
family had ever been divorcedand I had not seen that.
(03:11):
I didn't ever picture that formy life.
I was raised in a family wherepeople just stay together, you
don't get divorced and you justwork it out.
If you have problems, you workit out.
So one day he did something youknow abusive that my daughter
saw she was three at the timeand I just decided right then
that, you know, my children arenot going to be raised in a home
(03:32):
where they see their mothermistreated or abused.
And so, even though I eventuallywas the one who left, I really
had to deal with that wholebrokenness of just not knowing
what to do, not knowing where togo, where to turn, and I felt
like I was just, I just feltcompletely broken.
(03:52):
I believed all the things thathe said about me that I was
unlovable and that I was uglyand I was stupid, and just all
the things he said to me overand over again.
I believe those to be true ofthings he said to me over and
over again.
I believe those to be true.
And I still distinctly rememberjust like laying on the couch
and just burying my head in mymom's lap and just sobbing and
just repeating those things toher and I can't imagine how she
(04:15):
must have felt, trying tocomfort me at that moment.
But I don't ever remember beingfeeling that low.
You know that was probably thelowest point in my life.
Was right then?
Michelle (04:27):
Well, I'm so sorry you had to go through all of that
Stacy Dealing with domesticabuse, a miscarriage, an illness
with your daughter and then adivorce.
That's a lot of adversity andloss, and I wanted you to take
us back to that time and tell usbriefly about it, because we're
now going to talk about howthings eventually changed in
(04:48):
your life.
You said you began to learnmore about what a healthy
relationship should look likeand then at some point after
your divorce, you married again.
So you had your two childrenfrom the first marriage and then
you married your currenthusband and you two had two
children together and then yourlife changed and evolved over
(05:09):
the years.
You're in a healthy marriagenow with four great kids, but
now at some point you facehaving a senior in high school
and then another one, and thenanother one, and you had to say
goodbye to your children one byone as they left for college.
You told me that when you facedan empty nest, you felt a new
(05:30):
kind of grief and emotionaldistress that you hadn't
experienced before.
Can you talk about that?
Stacy (05:37):
So I felt like there was a mixture of emotions, because
on the one hand, you have thatexcitement for your kids and for
their future and for what mightbe for them, and then you also
have that just that terrorinside of, okay, they're out on
their own.
I'm not involved in theday-to-day anymore.
How, you know, did they listento anything that I told them?
(05:59):
You know, how are they going tofare on their own, you know.
But then on that other side ofit is just that sadness of okay,
this part of my life is over, Ican't go back.
Anything that I wanted to dodifferently, it's too late.
You know, I've done that, I'mdone.
And it was really scary too tothink, okay, I've arrived at
(06:21):
this point in my life.
I'm, you know, a middle-agedwoman and, you know, do I even
know what I want to do, you know?
So it was kind of scary becauseI felt like I was just looking
at, like all of everything thatI had done before, and I'm
looking ahead, thinking what doI do now?
What's next?
Michelle (06:39):
Yeah, I get it.
It feels like whenever there'sloss in our lives, we start to
realize we have decisions tomake about the future who we are
now, what we will become,what's our purpose.
So can you tell us a littlemore about the feelings you had
when the reality hit and each ofthose kids went away to school?
Stacy (06:59):
When I dropped my daughter off in college, I felt
like I left, you know, my heartthere in her dorm.
I was probably crying againbecause it just felt like I was
leaving a physical part of meand I know part of that is my
control freak nature but thenthe other, and just being
terrified because she was myfirst and she's my only girl,
(07:22):
and just being nervous aboutthat.
And then when I left, my oldestson stayed kind of close to us
and it wasn't and he was veryready, and so I felt more
confident.
But my third son, my thirdchild, my second son, went to
college.
(07:49):
He went six hours away and itwas the longest drive of my
entire life because he's myintrovert, he is, um, he is not
comfortable in, you know, likean unusual situations where he
doesn't know people, he's notsomebody that's going to go out
and talk to you and things likethat, which is funny because he
was.
You know he was a pitcher and ashortstop in sports and he was
out there doing his thing.
But you know he was a pitcherand a shortstop in sports and he
was out there doing his thing.
But you know, he was my childwhen he was a baby, if a child,
even as a toddler, if someonewould speak to him, he would cry
(08:10):
like a stranger, like he was.
So it was really like we workedon him, like getting out there
and feeling comfortable, and sofor him to go and want to go to
school that far away and none ofhis friends were there, he
didn't know anybody.
I just it broke my heart and Ijust kept asking my husband can
we just go back and get, like Icould just stay for just a few,
(08:31):
like I could stay in a hotel formaybe for a week or for a few
days, you know, and you can comeback and get me, but I
literally I remember just cryingpretty much the whole way home,
just thinking this is never,ever going to work.
How is this going to work?
We're going to be back nextweek picking him up.
Michelle (08:47):
Yeah, when you were saying you know, maybe I'll stay
in a hotel nearby, I wasthinking I think that's how I'd
feel too.
I mean, it seems like there'snothing incremental about it.
It's just today.
He leaves and we drop him offand we go back home.
So, yeah, it almost seems likewouldn't it be better to let him
have a first night with mom anddad, only 10 minutes away?
(09:09):
So I can imagine a lot ofpeople would feel that way, and
I think it's totallyunderstandable right.
Stacy (09:15):
Yeah, it's just like I'm like we're just dropping him off
.
He knows nobody and you know.
So that was, I think, thatadded to the stress of it, just
thinking.
And it's so funny because nowyou know he runs these meetings
and he has to go and givepresentations to these board
people and like I mean, he'slike he can do all the things
you know, and it's just you know, it was exactly what he needed.
Michelle (09:45):
It's just that I wanted to just stay there and
like, hover over him longer andkeep him under my wings as long
as I could.
Well, I'm thinking aboutsomebody who might be listening
right now and they're reallystruggling with missing their
child and wanting to get in thecar and go see him.
What would you say to thatperson to encourage them?
Stacy (10:00):
So I completely understand that that desire and
that want to go and just like bewith them is so strong.
But I do think that there is,you know, I think that God kind
of makes it.
Where they start to break awayfrom us, right, at a certain age
they start to get to what?
(10:21):
Maybe junior or senior year,they start to kind of pull away
and they start to becomedifficult to even live with.
And I think that that's kind ofGod's grace.
And by the time it's time forthem to go, we want them to go,
but then when they do actuallygo, then we want to grab them
back in, right, because we'vekind of forgotten.
But I do think if you, you knowwhen, when, when you have those
(10:44):
feelings, I think you need toremember that they are out there
and they're forming newfriendships and they're making
new connections and they'removing on, and if you've taught
them the things that they need,they're going to soar time, then
they don't really have theopportunity to make the
connections they need to makeand even make mistakes.
(11:13):
It's okay for them to makemistakes because you're still
there, because at some pointyou're no longer going to be
there and you're no longer goingto be their catch, and so you
know, for them to be able to dothis now, while you're still a
little bit close by even ifyou're not right there, but
you're just a phone call away,then that's really important, I
think.
Michelle (11:38):
That's really good advice.
Probably hard stuff to apply,but good, sound advice, thank
you.
I think I also remember youtelling me about a friend who
really struggled to let go andshe was even tracking her
children at school.
Stacy (11:47):
She is one of those like helicopter parents right, yeah.
And so she wanted to know, likeshe wanted to track her kids.
She wanted to know exactlywhere they were.
And they had to be home, evenin college, like, like I'm
looking, why are you not in yourapartment, why are you not here
and see, I wasn't that.
(12:07):
I wasn't that mom, because Ifelt like, just like I said, I
do think that you want them tobe safe and I understand that's
an important part of the worldthat we live in right now.
But I also understand that theyhave to make it on their own.
We're not always going to bethere.
We don't know what tomorrow isgoing to bring.
So if they don't have us, arethey still going to be able to
make that right choice?
So if they don't have us, arethey still going to be able to
(12:29):
make that right choice?
This is to me, when they buildtheir self-confidence so that
they can go out and they canstep into the world and know
that mom and dad are still there.
But I don't have to have themtake off the training wheels.
They never get that opportunityto really grow and soar until
(12:51):
they have to and they have nochoice.
Michelle (12:54):
Yeah, and I'm sure a lot of people feel that way, men
and women, and I'm sure there'speople listening that are in
the midst of it right now.
So I'm glad that you kind ofgot into the detail of those
emotions because people canunderstand.
It's normal and natural,something that a mother goes
through.
So what did you end up doingwith it?
As you were in the midst of it,how did you cope with the way
(13:15):
you were feeling, and was thereany place that you could turn to
kind of get support orcompassion?
Stacy (13:20):
So I don't think I handled it well at all because
at first I just threw myselfinto work.
I took a promotion, I got sobusy at work that I was either
at work or I was at home talkingabout work, thinking about work
on phone with somebody fromwork, you know.
And so I think I did thatbecause I just didn't want to go
(13:41):
home and be in that empty house, you know.
And my poor husband, you know,he tried to comfort me and he
tried to be there for me and buthonestly, he got frustrated
because, you know, I was alwaysjust focused on work and he was
kind of looking forward to, like, this new phase of our life and
I wasn't really there for it.
Michelle (14:02):
Yeah, well, I'm glad you brought that up, because I
was thinking about the maleperspective.
So talk a little bit more abouthow he felt about everything.
Stacy (14:11):
So I think his process was a lot shorter than mine.
I think, on the one hand and Idon't even know if you would
call it grief, I know thatthere's some reflection there
but since we married and Ialready came with two children
and then we had two childrenquickly after we never had that
couple's time, and so he wasreally looking forward to kind
(14:32):
of this new phase of like we candate, we can go out and we
don't have to think about, youknow, our kids or their extra
activities or whatever.
For him, when I wasn't reallythere and you know I was so
focused on you know work andeverything.
But I do know that he he wouldtell me sometimes that he would
(14:56):
see little kids practicingt-ball or having a baseball game
or something at a park and hewould pull over sometimes and
just watch for a little bit andhe would want me to, like we
would go.
We had one of our kids wasreally into band and is a
professional musician and he sohe would want to go to like band
contests and just kind of.
I think he's very nostalgic andit kind of helps him to.
He likes to reminisce aboutthings like that.
(15:17):
So that's kind of how he hasworked through.
It is just little things likethat, okay.
Michelle (15:23):
Yeah, you hear people talk about different ways that
the man and the woman deal witha child going to college, and
I've heard so many differentstories.
It's interesting to hear yourperspective and I'm sure
everybody's different.
But you know, as I was readingthrough your book, in chapter 18
, you talk specifically aboutthis and I want to read because
it was very good.
But you said, when the games,the concerts, the plays, the
(15:46):
practices and rehearsals and allthe extracurriculars you felt
were running you ragged, screechto a halt, you're suddenly
faced with a black void ofnothingness.
Some might say a blank page.
But what good is a blank pagewhen you don't know what to
write?
And I thought, wow, I'm justthinking about how you went from
(16:06):
all of that to being faced witha blank page.
So it sounds like it had animpact on you and your identity.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthat?
Stacy (16:19):
So for me, I was that mom .
You know I volunteered foreverything.
I was the homeroom mom, theGirl Scouts, the PTA band, any
kind of sports.
If you could coordinate it orvolunteer for it, I probably did
it.
So and all of the things that Idid, they coordinated around my
kids' activities and interests.
(16:39):
Not really mine per se, it'sbecause I was so focused on, you
know, what they wanted andmaking every moment.
You know, count for them andcount for us.
You know, count for them andcount for us.
You know, as a family, that Ididn't really carve out any time
for myself or to think aboutwhat my interests were, what I
really had hoped for, dreamedabout, and I just really think
that my identity became, youknow, okay, I'm Tori's mom, I'm
(17:04):
Ty's mom, you know, and that'swhat they call you.
They don't even know your nameanymore, you're just so-and-so's
mom.
And so I think that we allstart out, you know, with hopes
and plans and what we think wewant to do in our lives.
And then for me, I just tabledthat very early on and they just
kind of set, you know, allthose plans set so unattended
(17:24):
for so long that I didn't reallythink they applied to me
anymore by the time I got aroundto having time for me, and so
you know, you change right andyou're not the same person
anymore that you were when youwere 18, 19, 20 years old and
making these plans or whatever.
And so, all of a sudden, I hadto just think what do I want to
do for me, and who am I, and howis this going to look, this
(17:50):
next phase of my life?
I'm still relatively young, andwhat do I want to do?
Because I didn't have anidentity apart from being their
mom.
Michelle (17:58):
Yeah, and we talked a little bit about that before.
When people are faced with whatdo I want to do with my life?
It could be at any kind ofcrossroads, it could be empty
nest, it could be the death of aspouse or a child Anytime
there's a change like this andyou're faced with that.
I've talked to people or I'veasked them and often the answer
is I don't know.
(18:18):
I don't know, I don't know.
So I like that we're havingthis conversation, because
you're going to talk a littlebit about how you use the
opportunity to search out yourpurpose and move forward in your
life.
So talk about that.
Stacy (18:31):
Yeah, because there I was .
You know, my kids are all goneand they're off on their own,
and my husband was frustratedwith me because I was never home
and you know, when I was, I wasjust so wrapped up in the work
and the job wasn't evensomething I enjoyed anymore, in
fact, I dreaded going there.
And so I really just had tostop and reflect.
(18:52):
And I think it was sointeresting because two of my
staff brought me the samedevotional and the same within a
week.
It wasn't the exact samedevotional, but it was written
by the same person and it wasthe same like it was a daily
devotional.
And I thought, okay, somebody'strying to get my attention here
.
And so I thought, okay, I'mgoing to stop, and I started
(19:13):
reading through I take turnsreading through both of the
devotionals and really prayingthrough that and really seeking
what I thought God wanted for meat this moment in my life.
And I ended up.
Just, I changed careers, I wrotethis book and I, you know, I
really felt like God had laid iton my heart a long time ago,
(19:33):
but I never really had the timeto do it and think about it and
I thought this is the time.
This is the time for me to putthis out here and do this, and I
thought this is the time.
This is the time for me to putthis out here and do this, and
just in hopes that it can helpother people who are going
through something similar,because, even though our
experiences are not going to bethe same, I think the fact that
you know, everybody goes throughsomething Nobody gets through
(19:54):
life unscathed, so but thoseshared experiences, I think
really connect us and if we canbe transparent with one another
and we can be honest and kind ofput away that Instagram facade
and just say this is whathappened and this is how I felt,
then we can have realconnections and real experiences
and I think that can actuallyhelp in the long run.
(20:15):
So that was my goal.
Michelle (20:17):
Yeah, I agree with you 100%.
Congratulations for doing thatand for actually taking the time
to be prayerful and ask God.
You know, what should I do withthis time?
Because I think when I did askpeople, when I mentioned that
before, it was because I wasstruggling with it myself and I
was facing retirement without myson and kind of feeling like I
(20:38):
have you know what is my purpose, I don't know, kind of feeling
like I have you know what is mypurpose, I don't know.
And the people that I talked to,prayer, didn't always come up.
It was just kind of like, well,I've always liked to sew or I've
always liked to garden, youknow, and all of those things
are good.
But you talked about work beforepouring yourself into work
which could be good, could bebring income in, but could be a
(20:58):
distraction, you know, could beused as a distraction, and
sometimes those other things,like gardening and sewing or
whatever, could be justsomething that we enjoy doing.
But when you go to God, he willreveal to you, I believe, kind
of a purpose, kind of what wewere created to do, and that's
what you did.
So I love it that you wrote thebook.
Like I said, I really enjoyedreading it and I think that your
(21:22):
experiences will help otherpeople, so I commend you for
that.
On that note, I want to ask you, having gone through a lot of
the other losses in your lifeand then coming to this point in
your life later and then losingthe children and kind of
arriving at a new purpose, canyou share with us some lessons
(21:43):
that you learned through all ofit that might help someone who
is struggling with empty nest.
Stacy (21:48):
Yes, absolutely.
I really think it's importantthat you don't wait until your
kids have left or they're aboutto leave, because you need to
start planning kind of your nextphase while you're still in it
right.
Because you need to startplanning kind of your next phase
while you're still in it Right.
Because I see it all the timewhere parents like they're
waiting until senior year oreven last semester of senior
year, and then they're all of asudden, now what you know, and
(22:11):
they have all these emotions,they're reeling with emotions
from you know just thegraduation and whatever's
happening next, and then I thinkthat it can kind of be
overwhelming, and I think a lotof especially moms, I think we
can get really depressed andreally get sidetracked.
So I think it's important thatwe kind of keep that in mind and
even though you know, of coursethere's times that you know
(22:32):
somebody else is going to be thefocus, we're not the main focus
and that's how it should be.
Our children should be ourfocus when they're in the home,
but that doesn't mean that wecompletely set aside ourselves.
I mean, take a class or, youknow, find some friends that do
the things that you like to do,join a group, so that you just
are carving out a little bit oftime for your own interests and
(22:52):
staying plugged in to like thecore of who you are and not have
every single thing that you dobe about your children and your
family, and I think that's superimportant.
And then I also, for me, I think, investing in real, true
friendships are key, because tome, a true friendship requires a
(23:12):
time commitment.
It requires you to give andreceive grace and you know,
those people to me are soundingboards and they're my husband is
wonderful, he's a wonderfulfriend to me.
But having those femalefriendships that they kind of
can relate to me because they'vebeen where I've been or they
(23:32):
have some of the similaremotions that this maternal, you
know, emotion that we have, Ifeel like that's beneficial to
me, to just have that time tohave that person to talk to.
So I think that if, if you canfind, you know, a friend or a
group of friends, I think that'swonderful.
And then I also think justgiving yourself that time to
grieve because I don't thinkthat we really recognize it as
(23:56):
you know, something to grievenecessarily, something to grieve
necessarily, but I do thinkit's like to your point, it's a
loss.
You know we are no longer inthat phase.
We're not going back, it's gone, and so we have to understand
that we're moving to the nextphase and our relationship with
our children will change and ourrelationship with our spouse
will change, and there's just alot that changes there and you
(24:18):
have to give yourself some graceand give yourself some time to
work through those emotions andnot just pretend like it's not
happening.
So I think that those arereally important because there's
a lot that's wrapped up in that, not just sadness and
excitement.
There's just a lot in one bigbundle that we need to kind of
work through.
Michelle (24:37):
Yeah, I love it.
Thank you for all of those.
Those are very good practicaltips as well.
And, like you just said, lossis loss, and we talked about the
fact that when I lost my son,there was an issue about
identity as a mother.
You know, am I a mother anymore?
And I think there's a certainaspect of that too, when
children leave with empty nestbecause several of your children
(24:58):
are married now, right, howmany?
Yes three.
Stacy (25:02):
Three of the four are married.
Michelle (25:03):
So that creates a new dynamic.
When they get married, you know, do they need me anymore?
So I think that was.
Those are very good tips.
It is an important job it'sprobably the most important job
to be a mom, but don't losesight of who you are.
Very good, thank you for that.
Okay, well, Stacy, I will put alink to your website in the
(25:24):
show notes so that listeners canget a copy of your devotional,
because I think it's reallycomforting and meaningful.
So at this point, I just wantto say thank you so much for
agreeing to come on the show andbe my guest.
It was great getting to knowyou.
Stacy (25:36):
Yes, thank you for having me.
I really appreciate it.
Michelle (25:40):
So for those of you listening, you may be facing an
empty nest for the first time inyour life and it may be taking
its toll on you.
You might be missing your childlike crazy and resisting the
urge to call or text or evendrive over to see them and make
sure they're okay.
But, like Stacy said, thosefeelings are normal and it's
(26:02):
natural for a parent to grievethe loss of their children at
home.
But I hope you found somecomfort in Stacy's words about
letting them make their own way,letting them make new friends
and even letting them make somemistakes.
But in addition to the courageit takes to let them soar, don't
(26:23):
forget yourself in the process.
Remember that God has greatplans for your life too, and
that this time in your life canbe used to discover new purpose
and a deeper relationship withGod.
Don't forget to seek Him firstin all your plans and seek Him
in your sorrow as you grieveyour loss.
Seek him first in all yourplans and seek him in your
(26:45):
sorrow as you grieve your loss.
He's near to the brokenheartedand he works all things for good
for those who love him and arecalled according to his purpose.
So enjoy the new opportunitiesand trust that your kids will be
okay.
And as you walk through thisnew challenge in your life and
you begin to heal and eventhrive in your newfound
endeavors, just remember thatone day you'll be able to help
(27:06):
someone else with the lessonsyou learned in your loss.
Thanks for listening.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!