August 9, 2024 • 25 mins
Have you experienced the painful loss of a friendship breakup? Maybe it was due to a disagreement over a position you hold firmly to. Perhaps it was related to the way you parent your children, your political views, your lifestyle choices, or your religious beliefs. Whatever the cause, friendship breakups are hard.
Join me as I chat with the author of “When Best Friends Aren’t Forever,” Kristen Reed-Belveal. In her book, she takes a hard look at friendships through the lens of faith. In our discussion we explore what to do when we get a vibe that something’s wrong, how to communicate effectively in order to keep the friendship healthy, the emotional turmoil that follows a friendship loss and the crucial steps toward healing, and how to surround yourself with a supportive, mature community that can keep your focus on growth rather than gossip.
Kristen emphasizes the importance of self-reflection, helping you understand your own role in the friendship's end and how to improve for the future. We also touch on the prospect of reconciliation, giving you the tools to decide if reaching out to a former friend is the right move. Kristen shares her personal experiences and offers biblical wisdom on approaching conflicts with humility and forgiveness, making this an episode you won't want to miss.
Kristen's website:
http://www.kristenreedauthor.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Michelle (00:10):
Well, hey everybody, and welcome back to Qualified,
the place where incrediblepeople share their stories of
overcoming great adversity andloss to inspire you and give you
hope.
I'm Michelle Heaton.
Relationships can be tough.
You might still be friends withthe people you met in high
school.
You might have moved away andhave all new friends that you've
(00:31):
made in your new job or in yournew neighborhood, or you might
be one of those people who doesa great job at keeping in touch
with all the old ones and thenew ones, being careful to
remember all their kids' names,their interests, their special
days, and if you're one of thosepeople, my hat is off to you.
Maintaining friendships can behard work, especially when life
(00:51):
gets busy and you fail to stayin touch the way you should.
But throw in miscommunication,rumors, politics or religion and
you have a whole host ofreasons to have conflict in a
relationship.
So what do you do when thishappens?
Do you jump in and try and fixthings, or do you let the
relationship sort of fizzle out?
And what about the friend thatlets you know that it's time for
(01:14):
the relationship to end?
That doesn't feel good.
What then?
Well, my guest today has writtena book on this very topic,
called when Best Friends Aren'tForever.
In it, she explores thechallenging journey of
overcoming the pain of afriendship breakup through a
faith-filled lens.
It's a heartfelt four-weekguide rich in biblical wisdom
(01:36):
and healing activities, allcrafted to guide women from hurt
to healing, with a focus onfinding peace by pursuing
spiritual growth and healthierrelationships.
In addition to being a writer,she's a longtime Texan who lives
in the Dallas area with herhusband and two sons.
Her name is Kristen ReedBelveal and it's my pleasure to
(01:56):
have her as my guest on the showtoday.
Welcome to Qualified Kristen.
Kristen (02:00):
Thanks, I'm so excited to be here
Michelle (02:04):
Hey, let's start off by talking about why you decided
to write a book on friendshipbreakups.
Can you give us a background?
Kristen (02:25):
one of them, like I've learned different things, like I
had one when I was a lotyounger, like I want to say
maybe like 22 or something, andthen as recent as maybe like
four years ago, and each timeit's like, hey, there can be a
better way to process this, youcan work towards forgiveness,
you can work towards healing.
You don't have tostay bitter.
And I realized you know thereare so many books out there
about like finding yourcommunity, building friendships,
(02:46):
and then a lot of stuff aboutlike dating and relationships
and breakups and things likethat.
But there's that awkward spotof like, okay, I had friends and
now it's over.
That I felt like was a bitoverlooked in the book market,
especially for Christians, inthe book market, especially for
Christians.
So I wanted to write somethingthat could help other people
(03:06):
walk through that seasonfaithfully and to grow as
Christians and experiencesanctification, to forgive in a
biblical way and find healing,and also not increase the damage
to the relationship, becauseeven if you're not friends
anymore, you're still human.
There's still some sort ofrelating.
So that's why
Michelle (03:25):
Wow, that's great Yeah, I think there probably is
a real need for that, just basedon my own experience.
So let's talk about the factthat sometimes in relationships,
it's either an argument orwords that are left unsaid, or
something that causes kind of atension between two friends when
you sense that one of them ismaybe angry.
(03:46):
How do you go about trying toapproach, you know, to reconcile
with somebody when they areangry?
Kristen (03:53):
Yeah, I think that just being intentional and
communicating is the mostimportant thing.
Like if someone is eithertalking to you or you just get
that sense, like through anargument or a social media post,
because we all know that can bea thing these days, you know,
going to that person directly,going to them one on one and
saying like hey, when you weresaying this, it seemed like you
(04:13):
were angry with me.
Or just make it a question,like that might make them a
little less defensive, and asklike hey, is there something
that I've done that's upset yourecently?
Or hey, were you upset aboutthat topic or were you upset
with me about how I was handlingit?
And just kind of going fromthere and just being very humble
because we are all sinners Likeeven people have been
(04:36):
Christians for a really longtime like even they still have
sin, and just like, hey, thereare things that I've done
imperfectly and I care aboutthis person and I care about our
friendship.
So I'm willing to enter intothe difficult conversation and
even hear something difficultabout, like the way I behaved,
for the sake of preservingthings.
Michelle (04:56):
Yeah, yeah, that's really good, and I think, if the
reality is that the persontells you it was something you
said and they're truly hurt byit, and maybe in their heart
it's something that'sunforgivable, or it just hurts
too much for now, when thefriendship is over and the other
person is trying to processthat loss, what are your
(05:18):
thoughts on best ways to do that?
Kristen (05:20):
I think one of the really important things is to
make sure you have the rightpeople around you, that you're
processing it with.
I know that their culture can bereally easy like both online
and in person to hear a lot ofkind of like you go, girl.
Like they hurt you, that didn'tserve you, so let it go, kind of
messaging that it might seemreally empowering on the surface
but it's actually kind of likekeeping you in prison to the sin
(05:43):
that, on your end, led to thefriendship breaking down.
So it's really important to have, like your friendship breakup
team Like that's one of thefirst days within when best
friends aren't forever isidentifying a group of godly,
mature women who are willing tocomfort you, to speak truth to
you, to even call you outlovingly on the things that you
didn't do well and could dobetter in the future, and who
(06:06):
aren't afraid of hurting yourfeelings in a holy way I guess
that's one way to put it becausethose are the people that can
really help you off through thisjourney well and who can also
keep your conversations focusedon healing and processing,
versus venting and gossiping,because there is a lot of
temptation to like try tocontrol the narrative, to make
(06:28):
yourself seem like a good guyand things like that, when
really it's like hey, like maybeyou don't need to talk to
people about this period, likeyou don't need to make a big
social media post, you don'tneed to, like let every single
person you know know that, hey,I'm not friends with this person
anymore, just so so you know,and it's all their fault.
It's like, hey, what is theright way to talk about it
(06:49):
without hurting that otherperson?
So having that godly group ofpeople around you who you can
process things with and who canhave constructive conversations
with you is really important.
Michelle (07:01):
Yeah, yeah, I love the advice of godly mature
mentor types because we do needthat.
We need kind of a guidepost,somebody to tell us you know,
hey, this is the next level ofmaturity, you.
(07:25):
But I think sometimes when wedo go through any type of loss,
we think about what we did wrongto contribute to it.
And even though you're kind ofon the other side and giving
advice, were there times thatyou struggled like right after
the loss?
What kind of emotions did youprocess during that time?
Kristen (07:36):
I think for me, like one situation in particular,
something that came up a lot waslike you know, what could I
have done better?
Like should I have reached outmore?
Should I have done thisdifferently?
Should I have communicated tothis person in a specific way
and I'm trying not to go intodetails because you know, like I
talk about in the book, likethere's a right way and there's
a healthy way to talk aboutthings, and I don't want to like
(07:57):
make things awkward for people,but like there was a lot of
just kind of like lookingthrough, like what I had done
and just kind of feeling guiltyabout not doing things better.
And, on one hand, like it'sgood to recognize like hey, I am
whatever percent at fault inthis situation that like keeps
(08:17):
you from having progress.
So I think one of the things islike hey, if you're looking
back on something that you didwrong, something you wish you
had done better, or just like,hey, if I had known this other
thing I would have donedifferently is to kind of think
through like hey, how can thishelp me be a better friend in
(08:38):
the future and in the present,versus just dwelling on what
happened with it in the past andalso praying through like hey,
now that I've thought about thisand I've realized these things
that I did wrong or could havedone better, like does it make
sense to reach out to thisperson, does it make sense to
have a conversation or do I justneed to let it go and do better
going forward?
I think that's one of thereally important things, because
(08:59):
we're all humans.
We're all broken people, so weare undoubtedly going to realize
things we didn't do well, butdwelling on it in a way that
helps you be a better person isa lot different from just
beating yourself up about it.
Michelle (09:12):
Yeah, thank you.
That's great and I'm big on,you know, in the podcast
learning, learning from thelosses, learning from what we
did, and we'll talk about thelessons in the end and save that
for last.
But can you just give like oneexample of how you've decided
based on your experience, howyou've decided to kind of shape
your relationships in a new way,going forward, to avoid that?
Kristen (09:36):
Yeah, so one of the friendships that I've had in the
past that did not work out,like there was a lot of leaning
on each other too much in a waythat wasn't healthy.
And you know, some people mightsay that it was codependent I'm
not a therapist so I don'tthrow that word out there but
like that's a way that likepeople have seen it, and
(10:02):
something that I realized waslike, hey, I don't need a
specific person to lean on forall of these different things.
It's like, hey, and I don'tneed to be somebody's like
rescuer either.
It's like, hey, if somebodyneeds a lot of handholding, like
I can love them by pointingthem to Jesus and, you know,
trusting that that's going towork out, and praying for like
how I should intervene insteadof just always intervening out,
and praying for like how Ishould intervene instead of just
(10:23):
always intervening.
And then on the flip side, it'slike, hey, I don't need to put
all of my relational need eggsin one basket, you know.
You know God is our father, hegives us everything that we need
and he is ultimately the personthat is going to give us all of
our comfort, all of ouridentity, all of those things.
So it's like, hey, there is ahealthy way to lean on other
(10:44):
people that is interdependent,without being codependent, and
also not being so independentthat you act like you don't need
any friends or anybody.
So just realizing like, hey,the people that are in my life,
like I am not their savior, theyare not my savior, and just
kind of adjusting theexpectations, like even in
marriage, like I am not theirsavior, they are not my savior.
And just kind of adjusting theexpectations, like even in
marriage, like if I put all ofmy hopes and dreams and
(11:06):
expectations on my husband, likehe would crumble under that
weight, right, right, and I lovehim so much but he's not Jesus,
even though he's supposed tolove me like Jesus.
So so, yeah, just giving theappropriate weight to
relationships has been a biglesson for me.
Michelle (11:23):
I love it.
That's very, very good.
I'm thinking about the factthat you're a Christian and your
book is faith-based, and that'sa big factor in relationships,
and you've mentioned, you know,giving it up to God, and I think
that's huge too.
So what role did faith play inyour experience, in both the
loss portion and thereconciliation process?
Kristen (11:44):
Yeah, so I'll start with the reconciliation.
So for me, a lot of it is justaround the fact that, like, we
are supposed to forgive as Godhas forgiven us, and a big part
of that is like forgiveness andreconciliation are two different
things.
So I always have to work onlike, hey, I'm going to forgive
this person before they doanything different, because
(12:06):
that's how God forgave me.
I think it's Romans 5.8 thatsays God shows his love for us
and that while we are stillsinners, christ died for us.
And then when we think aboutour journeys as Christians, like
we believe in Jesus, then werepent and we are sanctified,
like we don't believe inimmediately, like we're way
better people or we don't workour way, and then it's like,
(12:26):
okay, now you can have yoursalvation and then go the rest
of the way, so just realizingthat like hey, I am forgiving
that person, like this moment,but we both need to forgive and
we both need to own whatever weneed to own and change for this
to really be like a good godlyfriendship again, instead of
just going back into like, ohwell, let's just forget that and
(12:49):
go back to how we were before,because there's still going to
be that seed or root ofunhealthiness there.
So really focusing on, likethat three-part process of like
the forgiveness, repentance andreconciliation is big, and then
in terms of like the forgiveness, repentance and reconciliation
is big.
And then in terms of like whenthings were happening, I think
prayer is such a huge thing,just like constantly praying and
(13:10):
even using like, instead oflooking at scripture to kind of
rebuke the other person.
It's like, hey, is therescripture I can find that can
kind of rebuke me in thissituation.
Like, what are some things that, like I am doing wrong by God's
?
Like?
Hey, is there scripture I canfind that can kind of rebuke me
in this situation?
Like, what are some things that, like I am doing wrong by God's
standards, even if the worldwould say that it's okay?
And how can I like come to thetable and own those things so
(13:32):
that, no matter what happens,like I have a clear conscience
about how I've handled it and Ican move forward being a
healthier, more godly person asa result?
So yeah, prayer and looking atscripture as a sanctifying tool
for yourself instead of as aweapon against somebody else, I
think the big thing.
Michelle (13:50):
Yeah, that's huge.
I love that you brought that in, because prayer brings us to
the place that we need to bewith God.
Sometimes it just keeps us incheck.
When we ask God to help us withthat, you know, sometimes, I
think, when we ask God to helpus with that, you know,
sometimes I think, when we're ina relationship whether it's a
new one or if it's one thatwe've had for a long time
sometimes we just get a vibe.
We just get a sense thatsomething's not right or they're
(14:12):
treating us different, or maybesomething's wrong.
When you start to sense thatyour relationship is weakening,
or what have you done in thepast to kind of resolve it or
help it, not end?
Kristen (14:26):
Yeah, I think reaching out is a big one.
Like there are times when, likeyou know, I haven't seen this
person in a long time and theyseem like they're struggling, or
I get a sense that they mightwant to connect or they might be
disappointed that we're notconnecting as much, and I'll try
to find time to talk to them.
(14:47):
You know whether it's like, hey, we're both super busy, let's
just grab a quick coffee, let'sgo get mani pedis together,
whatever that looks like, andjust finding time to really talk
about whatever's going on,because sometimes the vibe
you're getting has nothing to dowith you.
And if you take that onyourself and you're like, oh,
she's mad at me or he's mad atme or whatever that is, then
(15:08):
like you can kind of swirl in anunhealthy way of like just
wondering and wondering andwondering and feeling really bad
about it, or you kind of getdefensive and you turn it around
on them and, before you know it, like something that was not a
friendship issue at all on theirend is a friendship issue on
your end, because you've letthat bitterness come into your
heart.
(15:28):
So yeah, I think the biggestthing is like reaching out,
connecting, seeing how thingsare, because sometimes if you
just invite the person out tocoffee to get your nails done
whatever that looks like to amovie then like you'll just
naturally find out what's goingon, they might say like hey, I'm
so glad you reached out.
I've really been missing you,or man, I've had you on my mind
(15:50):
and like I've been strugglingbecause of X, y, z, or it might
just be nothing, it might havehad nothing to do with you, it
could be work, it could be theirfamily, it could be their
health.
You just don't know, butreaching out is always a good
option.
Michelle (16:06):
Yeah, I think, in friendships, marriage
relationships, any relationships, I think communication is huge,
isn't it?
To making things, yeah, tofixing it.
So, all of that said, you'veoffered so many good things,
kind of along the way, with eachquestion you've given, you know
, practical tips and spiritualtips.
But can you kind of summarizesome of the big lessons that
(16:26):
you've learned, having beenthrough a friendship breakup or
two, that you can share withsomebody listening who might be
actually right now in the midstof that, with someone that will
give them hope?
Kristen (16:37):
Yeah.
So, of course, like looking forpeople that will sharpen you
like iron, like Proverbs 27, 9and 17,.
Both talk about, like you know,iron, sharpening iron and
friendships and like sometimesthese situations are sharpening
for you, like the actualconversations with the friend
that you're having issues with.
Sometimes you get thatsharpening from your BFF breakup
(16:58):
team.
But like looking at the wholesituation through the lens of
the gospel, that, like I'm animperfect person, I need
forgiveness.
I am not the person that I'mgoing to be in eternity.
So that helps you approach itwith humility, both with the
person that you're in conflictwith and with the people you're
processing with.
Also just forgiving.
As Christ forgave you, soforgive before the person even
(17:21):
changes, before they even reachout to you, and knowing that,
like hey, when you forgive them,you're not saying that what
they did was okay, you're justtrusting God to deal with their
sin.
And when God deals with it,it's with wrath or mercy, you
know, and like as Christians weget to experience that mercy and
grace.
So like hoping that that's whatthat person experiences.
So if they are following Christ, like hey, you know that's the
(17:45):
situation, like God has forgiventhem, like they're going to go
to heaven all the great thingsIf they don't know Christ, like
praying for their salvation, isa really important thing because
even if you guys reconcile,like if they're not reconciled
with God, like that is the worstschism to have in a
relationship.
And then even just like beingmindful about the content you're
(18:08):
taking in online you know wehave social media these days and
it is a great tool, but it canalso be really damaging.
It can just Kristen keepreaffirming what you're thinking
because of how the algorithmworks.
So you might have to do thework of taking the apps off your
phone for a season.
That could be the most extremething you do.
Or it could be tailoring thealgorithm where it's like
whenever something comes thatinspires bitterness, that
(18:30):
tailoring the algorithm whereit's like whenever something
comes that inspires bitterness,that inspires self-hatred, that
inspire entitlement.
Hide it, unfollow that account.
Hide it.
Unfollow that account and thenhopefully it will stop showing
you those things, or at leastshow it even less, and make sure
that you're interacting withthings that are actually like
good, spiritual, christiancontent, because it'll show you
that more, of course, like weshould be getting our spiritual
(18:54):
enrichment in ways other thanscrolling and swiping and double
tapping, but knowing thatthat's such a big part of life,
we do need to take that intoaccount when working through
difficult relationships.
Michelle (19:04):
Thank you, kristen.
Those are great lessons andgood reminders for all of us to
remember to apply the Word ofGod forgive first, pray for our
friends and manage what we'retaking in Good stuff.
So, since your book looks athow to manage friendships from a
biblical perspective, was thereany particular scripture or
(19:27):
story in the Bible that standsout in your mind as kind of a
model for us to follow?
Kristen (19:32):
So something else that was a really big inspiration for
this book that I wouldencourage people to look at in
the Bible is the story of Paul,barnabas and John Mark.
So Paul and Barnabas were goingto be going on a missionary
journey in the book of Acts Ibelieve it's Acts 15, and
Barnabas wanted to bring JohnMark with him.
But they had a book right thereand decided to go their
(19:54):
separate ways because Paul hadseen John Mark abandon them I
want to say at Camp Celia Imight be fake mispronouncing
that city's name so they wenttheir separate ways.
Paul went to one area to preachthe gospel, barnabas and John
Mark did something different.
But then, when we get to 2Timothy 4, when Paul is near the
end of his life I believe he'sin a Roman prison at that point
(20:17):
he gets executed not long afterhe asks for John Mark because he
was useful to him and to me.
That is so beautiful because wesee that these people who are
like giants in the faith, likeso many people, have children
who are named after these freemen.
They had this really bigfriendship breakup on a
missionary journey and one Godstill used them Like.
(20:40):
There's a reason we still knowwho all these people are and
it's because they did reallyamazing things in Jesus's name
before and after that moment andthey had this big breakup.
But at least Paul and John Markcame back together.
So we have this example ofreconciliation.
We can see a relationship beinghealed.
We don't see it happen, but wesee the results of it at that
(21:01):
point.
But we also don't see Paul andBarnabas interacting and we
don't see that that was areconciled situation and that's
a difficult one, because itcould be that they reconciled
and it's just not captured inthe pages of scripture or it
could be that it didn't happenfor some reason.
But it's interesting because wecan see that, like you know,
(21:23):
whether you do the hard work ofworking on yourself, trying to
pursue reconciliation, forgiving, repenting, all of those things
, like it's not in your controlif the other person does the
same and God can work in you andhe can use you whether you
reconcile or not.
But it's so important to do thatwork in your own heart, with
(21:43):
your own faith, to become abetter person and to be more
like Christ.
That way, like in the future,if you run into that person,
like you can be prepared to meetthem with love and compassion
and knowing like, hey, I haveprayed for you for the past
three years since we stoppedbeing friends and I haven't
reached out because I didn'tfeel like that was the right
thing, but you've been on mymind and I want good for you and
(22:06):
I hope you've had good in thistime that we've been apart.
Good for you and I hope you'vehad good in this time that we've
been apart and that, whetherthey react to that with love or
indifference or spite, like youalways have God, you're never
alone, no matter what happens,and God will provide you with
the people, with the friends,with the family that you need to
walk faithfully in your life.
So that is a big thing thatinspired this book.
(22:30):
I wanted to encourage peoplewith Wow, I love that.
Michelle (22:34):
That's a lot of wisdom right there.
You know it's truth and you'reright, scripture does paint that
picture for us, Apolothreadicsand so we need to keep factoring
in what God wants and stoptaking things into our own
strength, and that was kind ofwhat I was hearing as you were
talking.
So thank you so much for that,kristen.
I wanted to mention yourwebsite so that people can go
there and get a copy of yourbook, and I noticed when I was
(22:55):
there you're not just writingbooks, you also have your hands
on a few other projects.
Can you just take a minute andtell us about what else you're
up to?
Kristen (23:04):
A funny thing that I'm working on now that people might
find interesting is I juststarted my own clothing line
called Apolithetics.
So people are looking forinteresting Christian related
clothing like not just likegoofy t-shirts, because there
are some addresses even thathave like hidden Christian
messaging in them.
The sweatshirt I'm wearing isfrom the clothing line.
It has like a houndstoothinspired cross on it.
(23:26):
So just a lot of clothes likethat, even stuff for men and
kids too.
So, if you like, not justsharing your faith with your
words, but with your fashion.
Michelle (23:34):
That's my latest project well, thank you for that
.
I love the sweatshirtApolothreadics looking forward
to checking out apolithetics andsee what else is there.
So I'll put a link to yourwebsite in the show notes so
listeners can go there and findyou easily.
And you you're on Instagram too, right.
Kristen (23:52):
Yes, if you find me on Instagram, it's the easiest way
to find Apollo Grettings.
Michelle (24:00):
And my Instagram is just Kristen Reed TX.
Great Thank you.
Well, hey, I just want to saythanks so much.
This has been a pleasuremeeting you and talking about
friendships and the way Godwants us to deal with the
friendships in our lives.
So thank you again for agreeingto come on the show.
Kristen (24:14):
Thank you for having me , it's been great.
Michelle (24:17):
So, for those of you listening, I don't know what you
took away from listening toKristen, but I sure learned a
lot about viewing friendshipsthrough the lens of faith.
I love what Kristen shared withus about surrounding ourselves
with a mature group of believerswill help us work on our issues
and how we might havecontributed to the problem,
(24:37):
versus only hanging with thosewho will tell us how great we
are and what we want to hear.
And the reminder to keep ourconversations with that group
focused on healing andprocessing, versus venting and
gossiping Another good pearl ofwisdom right there.
So if you're struggling with afriendship right now, I hope you
(24:57):
were encouraged today by whatKristen shared.
And all losses in life, alladversity, can be used to help
other people if we learn from itand if we take the time to
share our stories with others.
So hang in there, my friend,and look for the lessons in your
struggle and the opportunitiesto walk with someone else in
(25:18):
their pain.
Thanks for listening.
Well, hey everybody, and welcome back to Qualified,
the place where incrediblepeople share their stories of
overcoming great adversity andloss to inspire you and give you
hope.
I'm Michelle Heaton.
Relationships can be tough.
You might still be friends withthe people you met in high
school.
You might have moved away andhave all new friends that you've
(00:31):
made in your new job or in yournew neighborhood, or you might
be one of those people who doesa great job at keeping in touch
with all the old ones and thenew ones, being careful to
remember all their kids' names,their interests, their special
days, and if you're one of thosepeople, my hat is off to you.
Maintaining friendships can behard work, especially when life
(00:51):
gets busy and you fail to stayin touch the way you should.
But throw in miscommunication,rumors, politics or religion and
you have a whole host ofreasons to have conflict in a
relationship.
So what do you do when thishappens?
Do you jump in and try and fixthings, or do you let the
relationship sort of fizzle out?
And what about the friend thatlets you know that it's time for
(01:14):
the relationship to end?
That doesn't feel good.
What then?
Well, my guest today has writtena book on this very topic,
called when Best Friends Aren'tForever.
In it, she explores thechallenging journey of
overcoming the pain of afriendship breakup through a
faith-filled lens.
It's a heartfelt four-weekguide rich in biblical wisdom
(01:36):
and healing activities, allcrafted to guide women from hurt
to healing, with a focus onfinding peace by pursuing
spiritual growth and healthierrelationships.
In addition to being a writer,she's a longtime Texan who lives
in the Dallas area with herhusband and two sons.
Her name is Kristen ReedBelveal and it's my pleasure to
(01:56):
have her as my guest on the showtoday.
Welcome to Qualified Kristen.
Kristen (02:00):
Thanks, I'm so excited to be here
Michelle (02:04):
Hey, let's start off by talking about why you decided
to write a book on friendshipbreakups.
Can you give us a background?
Kristen (02:25):
one of them, like I've learned different things, like I
had one when I was a lotyounger, like I want to say
maybe like 22 or something, andthen as recent as maybe like
four years ago, and each timeit's like, hey, there can be a
better way to process this, youcan work towards forgiveness,
you can work towards healing.
You don't have tostay bitter.
And I realized you know thereare so many books out there
about like finding yourcommunity, building friendships,
(02:46):
and then a lot of stuff aboutlike dating and relationships
and breakups and things likethat.
But there's that awkward spotof like, okay, I had friends and
now it's over.
That I felt like was a bitoverlooked in the book market,
especially for Christians, inthe book market, especially for
Christians.
So I wanted to write somethingthat could help other people
(03:06):
walk through that seasonfaithfully and to grow as
Christians and experiencesanctification, to forgive in a
biblical way and find healing,and also not increase the damage
to the relationship, becauseeven if you're not friends
anymore, you're still human.
There's still some sort ofrelating.
So that's why
Michelle (03:25):
Wow, that's great Yeah, I think there probably is
a real need for that, just basedon my own experience.
So let's talk about the factthat sometimes in relationships,
it's either an argument orwords that are left unsaid, or
something that causes kind of atension between two friends when
you sense that one of them ismaybe angry.
(03:46):
How do you go about trying toapproach, you know, to reconcile
with somebody when they areangry?
Kristen (03:53):
Yeah, I think that just being intentional and
communicating is the mostimportant thing.
Like if someone is eithertalking to you or you just get
that sense, like through anargument or a social media post,
because we all know that can bea thing these days, you know,
going to that person directly,going to them one on one and
saying like hey, when you weresaying this, it seemed like you
(04:13):
were angry with me.
Or just make it a question,like that might make them a
little less defensive, and asklike hey, is there something
that I've done that's upset yourecently?
Or hey, were you upset aboutthat topic or were you upset
with me about how I was handlingit?
And just kind of going fromthere and just being very humble
because we are all sinners Likeeven people have been
(04:36):
Christians for a really longtime like even they still have
sin, and just like, hey, thereare things that I've done
imperfectly and I care aboutthis person and I care about our
friendship.
So I'm willing to enter intothe difficult conversation and
even hear something difficultabout, like the way I behaved,
for the sake of preservingthings.
Michelle (04:56):
Yeah, yeah, that's really good, and I think, if the
reality is that the persontells you it was something you
said and they're truly hurt byit, and maybe in their heart
it's something that'sunforgivable, or it just hurts
too much for now, when thefriendship is over and the other
person is trying to processthat loss, what are your
(05:18):
thoughts on best ways to do that?
Kristen (05:20):
I think one of the really important things is to
make sure you have the rightpeople around you, that you're
processing it with.
I know that their culture can bereally easy like both online
and in person to hear a lot ofkind of like you go, girl.
Like they hurt you, that didn'tserve you, so let it go, kind of
messaging that it might seemreally empowering on the surface
but it's actually kind of likekeeping you in prison to the sin
(05:43):
that, on your end, led to thefriendship breaking down.
So it's really important to have, like your friendship breakup
team Like that's one of thefirst days within when best
friends aren't forever isidentifying a group of godly,
mature women who are willing tocomfort you, to speak truth to
you, to even call you outlovingly on the things that you
didn't do well and could dobetter in the future, and who
(06:06):
aren't afraid of hurting yourfeelings in a holy way I guess
that's one way to put it becausethose are the people that can
really help you off through thisjourney well and who can also
keep your conversations focusedon healing and processing,
versus venting and gossiping,because there is a lot of
temptation to like try tocontrol the narrative, to make
(06:28):
yourself seem like a good guyand things like that, when
really it's like hey, like maybeyou don't need to talk to
people about this period, likeyou don't need to make a big
social media post, you don'tneed to, like let every single
person you know know that, hey,I'm not friends with this person
anymore, just so so you know,and it's all their fault.
It's like, hey, what is theright way to talk about it
(06:49):
without hurting that otherperson?
So having that godly group ofpeople around you who you can
process things with and who canhave constructive conversations
with you is really important.
Michelle (07:01):
Yeah, yeah, I love the advice of godly mature
mentor types because we do needthat.
We need kind of a guidepost,somebody to tell us you know,
hey, this is the next level ofmaturity, you.
(07:25):
But I think sometimes when wedo go through any type of loss,
we think about what we did wrongto contribute to it.
And even though you're kind ofon the other side and giving
advice, were there times thatyou struggled like right after
the loss?
What kind of emotions did youprocess during that time?
Kristen (07:36):
I think for me, like one situation in particular,
something that came up a lot waslike you know, what could I
have done better?
Like should I have reached outmore?
Should I have done thisdifferently?
Should I have communicated tothis person in a specific way
and I'm trying not to go intodetails because you know, like I
talk about in the book, likethere's a right way and there's
a healthy way to talk aboutthings, and I don't want to like
(07:57):
make things awkward for people,but like there was a lot of
just kind of like lookingthrough, like what I had done
and just kind of feeling guiltyabout not doing things better.
And, on one hand, like it'sgood to recognize like hey, I am
whatever percent at fault inthis situation that like keeps
(08:17):
you from having progress.
So I think one of the things islike hey, if you're looking
back on something that you didwrong, something you wish you
had done better, or just like,hey, if I had known this other
thing I would have donedifferently is to kind of think
through like hey, how can thishelp me be a better friend in
(08:38):
the future and in the present,versus just dwelling on what
happened with it in the past andalso praying through like hey,
now that I've thought about thisand I've realized these things
that I did wrong or could havedone better, like does it make
sense to reach out to thisperson, does it make sense to
have a conversation or do I justneed to let it go and do better
going forward?
I think that's one of thereally important things, because
(08:59):
we're all humans.
We're all broken people, so weare undoubtedly going to realize
things we didn't do well, butdwelling on it in a way that
helps you be a better person isa lot different from just
beating yourself up about it.
Michelle (09:12):
Yeah, thank you.
That's great and I'm big on,you know, in the podcast
learning, learning from thelosses, learning from what we
did, and we'll talk about thelessons in the end and save that
for last.
But can you just give like oneexample of how you've decided
based on your experience, howyou've decided to kind of shape
your relationships in a new way,going forward, to avoid that?
Kristen (09:36):
Yeah, so one of the friendships that I've had in the
past that did not work out,like there was a lot of leaning
on each other too much in a waythat wasn't healthy.
And you know, some people mightsay that it was codependent I'm
not a therapist so I don'tthrow that word out there but
like that's a way that likepeople have seen it, and
(10:02):
something that I realized waslike, hey, I don't need a
specific person to lean on forall of these different things.
It's like, hey, and I don'tneed to be somebody's like
rescuer either.
It's like, hey, if somebodyneeds a lot of handholding, like
I can love them by pointingthem to Jesus and, you know,
trusting that that's going towork out, and praying for like
how I should intervene insteadof just always intervening out,
and praying for like how Ishould intervene instead of just
(10:23):
always intervening.
And then on the flip side, it'slike, hey, I don't need to put
all of my relational need eggsin one basket, you know.
You know God is our father, hegives us everything that we need
and he is ultimately the personthat is going to give us all of
our comfort, all of ouridentity, all of those things.
So it's like, hey, there is ahealthy way to lean on other
(10:44):
people that is interdependent,without being codependent, and
also not being so independentthat you act like you don't need
any friends or anybody.
So just realizing like, hey,the people that are in my life,
like I am not their savior, theyare not my savior, and just
kind of adjusting theexpectations, like even in
marriage, like I am not theirsavior, they are not my savior.
And just kind of adjusting theexpectations, like even in
marriage, like if I put all ofmy hopes and dreams and
(11:06):
expectations on my husband, likehe would crumble under that
weight, right, right, and I lovehim so much but he's not Jesus,
even though he's supposed tolove me like Jesus.
So so, yeah, just giving theappropriate weight to
relationships has been a biglesson for me.
Michelle (11:23):
I love it.
That's very, very good.
I'm thinking about the factthat you're a Christian and your
book is faith-based, and that'sa big factor in relationships,
and you've mentioned, you know,giving it up to God, and I think
that's huge too.
So what role did faith play inyour experience, in both the
loss portion and thereconciliation process?
Kristen (11:44):
Yeah, so I'll start with the reconciliation.
So for me, a lot of it is justaround the fact that, like, we
are supposed to forgive as Godhas forgiven us, and a big part
of that is like forgiveness andreconciliation are two different
things.
So I always have to work onlike, hey, I'm going to forgive
this person before they doanything different, because
(12:06):
that's how God forgave me.
I think it's Romans 5.8 thatsays God shows his love for us
and that while we are stillsinners, christ died for us.
And then when we think aboutour journeys as Christians, like
we believe in Jesus, then werepent and we are sanctified,
like we don't believe inimmediately, like we're way
better people or we don't workour way, and then it's like,
(12:26):
okay, now you can have yoursalvation and then go the rest
of the way, so just realizingthat like hey, I am forgiving
that person, like this moment,but we both need to forgive and
we both need to own whatever weneed to own and change for this
to really be like a good godlyfriendship again, instead of
just going back into like, ohwell, let's just forget that and
(12:49):
go back to how we were before,because there's still going to
be that seed or root ofunhealthiness there.
So really focusing on, likethat three-part process of like
the forgiveness, repentance andreconciliation is big, and then
in terms of like the forgiveness, repentance and reconciliation
is big.
And then in terms of like whenthings were happening, I think
prayer is such a huge thing,just like constantly praying and
(13:10):
even using like, instead oflooking at scripture to kind of
rebuke the other person.
It's like, hey, is therescripture I can find that can
kind of rebuke me in thissituation.
Like, what are some things that, like I am doing wrong by God's
?
Like?
Hey, is there scripture I canfind that can kind of rebuke me
in this situation?
Like, what are some things that, like I am doing wrong by God's
standards, even if the worldwould say that it's okay?
And how can I like come to thetable and own those things so
(13:32):
that, no matter what happens,like I have a clear conscience
about how I've handled it and Ican move forward being a
healthier, more godly person asa result?
So yeah, prayer and looking atscripture as a sanctifying tool
for yourself instead of as aweapon against somebody else, I
think the big thing.
Michelle (13:50):
Yeah, that's huge.
I love that you brought that in, because prayer brings us to
the place that we need to bewith God.
Sometimes it just keeps us incheck.
When we ask God to help us withthat, you know, sometimes, I
think, when we ask God to helpus with that, you know,
sometimes I think, when we're ina relationship whether it's a
new one or if it's one thatwe've had for a long time
sometimes we just get a vibe.
We just get a sense thatsomething's not right or they're
(14:12):
treating us different, or maybesomething's wrong.
When you start to sense thatyour relationship is weakening,
or what have you done in thepast to kind of resolve it or
help it, not end?
Kristen (14:26):
Yeah, I think reaching out is a big one.
Like there are times when, likeyou know, I haven't seen this
person in a long time and theyseem like they're struggling, or
I get a sense that they mightwant to connect or they might be
disappointed that we're notconnecting as much, and I'll try
to find time to talk to them.
(14:47):
You know whether it's like, hey, we're both super busy, let's
just grab a quick coffee, let'sgo get mani pedis together,
whatever that looks like, andjust finding time to really talk
about whatever's going on,because sometimes the vibe
you're getting has nothing to dowith you.
And if you take that onyourself and you're like, oh,
she's mad at me or he's mad atme or whatever that is, then
(15:08):
like you can kind of swirl in anunhealthy way of like just
wondering and wondering andwondering and feeling really bad
about it, or you kind of getdefensive and you turn it around
on them and, before you know it, like something that was not a
friendship issue at all on theirend is a friendship issue on
your end, because you've letthat bitterness come into your
heart.
(15:28):
So yeah, I think the biggestthing is like reaching out,
connecting, seeing how thingsare, because sometimes if you
just invite the person out tocoffee to get your nails done
whatever that looks like to amovie then like you'll just
naturally find out what's goingon, they might say like hey, I'm
so glad you reached out.
I've really been missing you,or man, I've had you on my mind
(15:50):
and like I've been strugglingbecause of X, y, z, or it might
just be nothing, it might havehad nothing to do with you, it
could be work, it could be theirfamily, it could be their
health.
You just don't know, butreaching out is always a good
option.
Michelle (16:06):
Yeah, I think, in friendships, marriage
relationships, any relationships, I think communication is huge,
isn't it?
To making things, yeah, tofixing it.
So, all of that said, you'veoffered so many good things,
kind of along the way, with eachquestion you've given, you know
, practical tips and spiritualtips.
But can you kind of summarizesome of the big lessons that
(16:26):
you've learned, having beenthrough a friendship breakup or
two, that you can share withsomebody listening who might be
actually right now in the midstof that, with someone that will
give them hope?
Kristen (16:37):
Yeah.
So, of course, like looking forpeople that will sharpen you
like iron, like Proverbs 27, 9and 17,.
Both talk about, like you know,iron, sharpening iron and
friendships and like sometimesthese situations are sharpening
for you, like the actualconversations with the friend
that you're having issues with.
Sometimes you get thatsharpening from your BFF breakup
(16:58):
team.
But like looking at the wholesituation through the lens of
the gospel, that, like I'm animperfect person, I need
forgiveness.
I am not the person that I'mgoing to be in eternity.
So that helps you approach itwith humility, both with the
person that you're in conflictwith and with the people you're
processing with.
Also just forgiving.
As Christ forgave you, soforgive before the person even
(17:21):
changes, before they even reachout to you, and knowing that,
like hey, when you forgive them,you're not saying that what
they did was okay, you're justtrusting God to deal with their
sin.
And when God deals with it,it's with wrath or mercy, you
know, and like as Christians weget to experience that mercy and
grace.
So like hoping that that's whatthat person experiences.
So if they are following Christ, like hey, you know that's the
(17:45):
situation, like God has forgiventhem, like they're going to go
to heaven all the great thingsIf they don't know Christ, like
praying for their salvation, isa really important thing because
even if you guys reconcile,like if they're not reconciled
with God, like that is the worstschism to have in a
relationship.
And then even just like beingmindful about the content you're
(18:08):
taking in online you know wehave social media these days and
it is a great tool, but it canalso be really damaging.
It can just Kristen keepreaffirming what you're thinking
because of how the algorithmworks.
So you might have to do thework of taking the apps off your
phone for a season.
That could be the most extremething you do.
Or it could be tailoring thealgorithm where it's like
whenever something comes thatinspires bitterness, that
(18:30):
tailoring the algorithm whereit's like whenever something
comes that inspires bitterness,that inspires self-hatred, that
inspire entitlement.
Hide it, unfollow that account.
Hide it.
Unfollow that account and thenhopefully it will stop showing
you those things, or at leastshow it even less, and make sure
that you're interacting withthings that are actually like
good, spiritual, christiancontent, because it'll show you
that more, of course, like weshould be getting our spiritual
(18:54):
enrichment in ways other thanscrolling and swiping and double
tapping, but knowing thatthat's such a big part of life,
we do need to take that intoaccount when working through
difficult relationships.
Michelle (19:04):
Thank you, kristen.
Those are great lessons andgood reminders for all of us to
remember to apply the Word ofGod forgive first, pray for our
friends and manage what we'retaking in Good stuff.
So, since your book looks athow to manage friendships from a
biblical perspective, was thereany particular scripture or
(19:27):
story in the Bible that standsout in your mind as kind of a
model for us to follow?
Kristen (19:32):
So something else that was a really big inspiration for
this book that I wouldencourage people to look at in
the Bible is the story of Paul,barnabas and John Mark.
So Paul and Barnabas were goingto be going on a missionary
journey in the book of Acts Ibelieve it's Acts 15, and
Barnabas wanted to bring JohnMark with him.
But they had a book right thereand decided to go their
(19:54):
separate ways because Paul hadseen John Mark abandon them I
want to say at Camp Celia Imight be fake mispronouncing
that city's name so they wenttheir separate ways.
Paul went to one area to preachthe gospel, barnabas and John
Mark did something different.
But then, when we get to 2Timothy 4, when Paul is near the
end of his life I believe he'sin a Roman prison at that point
(20:17):
he gets executed not long afterhe asks for John Mark because he
was useful to him and to me.
That is so beautiful because wesee that these people who are
like giants in the faith, likeso many people, have children
who are named after these freemen.
They had this really bigfriendship breakup on a
missionary journey and one Godstill used them Like.
(20:40):
There's a reason we still knowwho all these people are and
it's because they did reallyamazing things in Jesus's name
before and after that moment andthey had this big breakup.
But at least Paul and John Markcame back together.
So we have this example ofreconciliation.
We can see a relationship beinghealed.
We don't see it happen, but wesee the results of it at that
(21:01):
point.
But we also don't see Paul andBarnabas interacting and we
don't see that that was areconciled situation and that's
a difficult one, because itcould be that they reconciled
and it's just not captured inthe pages of scripture or it
could be that it didn't happenfor some reason.
But it's interesting because wecan see that, like you know,
(21:23):
whether you do the hard work ofworking on yourself, trying to
pursue reconciliation, forgiving, repenting, all of those things
, like it's not in your controlif the other person does the
same and God can work in you andhe can use you whether you
reconcile or not.
But it's so important to do thatwork in your own heart, with
(21:43):
your own faith, to become abetter person and to be more
like Christ.
That way, like in the future,if you run into that person,
like you can be prepared to meetthem with love and compassion
and knowing like, hey, I haveprayed for you for the past
three years since we stoppedbeing friends and I haven't
reached out because I didn'tfeel like that was the right
thing, but you've been on mymind and I want good for you and
(22:06):
I hope you've had good in thistime that we've been apart.
Good for you and I hope you'vehad good in this time that we've
been apart and that, whetherthey react to that with love or
indifference or spite, like youalways have God, you're never
alone, no matter what happens,and God will provide you with
the people, with the friends,with the family that you need to
walk faithfully in your life.
So that is a big thing thatinspired this book.
(22:30):
I wanted to encourage peoplewith Wow, I love that.
Michelle (22:34):
That's a lot of wisdom right there.
You know it's truth and you'reright, scripture does paint that
picture for us, Apolothreadicsand so we need to keep factoring
in what God wants and stoptaking things into our own
strength, and that was kind ofwhat I was hearing as you were
talking.
So thank you so much for that,kristen.
I wanted to mention yourwebsite so that people can go
there and get a copy of yourbook, and I noticed when I was
(22:55):
there you're not just writingbooks, you also have your hands
on a few other projects.
Can you just take a minute andtell us about what else you're
up to?
Kristen (23:04):
A funny thing that I'm working on now that people might
find interesting is I juststarted my own clothing line
called Apolithetics.
So people are looking forinteresting Christian related
clothing like not just likegoofy t-shirts, because there
are some addresses even thathave like hidden Christian
messaging in them.
The sweatshirt I'm wearing isfrom the clothing line.
It has like a houndstoothinspired cross on it.
(23:26):
So just a lot of clothes likethat, even stuff for men and
kids too.
So, if you like, not justsharing your faith with your
words, but with your fashion.
Michelle (23:34):
That's my latest project well, thank you for that
.
I love the sweatshirtApolothreadics looking forward
to checking out apolithetics andsee what else is there.
So I'll put a link to yourwebsite in the show notes so
listeners can go there and findyou easily.
And you you're on Instagram too, right.
Kristen (23:52):
Yes, if you find me on Instagram, it's the easiest way
to find Apollo Grettings.
Michelle (24:00):
And my Instagram is just Kristen Reed TX.
Great Thank you.
Well, hey, I just want to saythanks so much.
This has been a pleasuremeeting you and talking about
friendships and the way Godwants us to deal with the
friendships in our lives.
So thank you again for agreeingto come on the show.
Kristen (24:14):
Thank you for having me , it's been great.
Michelle (24:17):
So, for those of you listening, I don't know what you
took away from listening toKristen, but I sure learned a
lot about viewing friendshipsthrough the lens of faith.
I love what Kristen shared withus about surrounding ourselves
with a mature group of believerswill help us work on our issues
and how we might havecontributed to the problem,
(24:37):
versus only hanging with thosewho will tell us how great we
are and what we want to hear.
And the reminder to keep ourconversations with that group
focused on healing andprocessing, versus venting and
gossiping Another good pearl ofwisdom right there.
So if you're struggling with afriendship right now, I hope you
(24:57):
were encouraged today by whatKristen shared.
And all losses in life, alladversity, can be used to help
other people if we learn from itand if we take the time to
share our stories with others.
So hang in there, my friend,and look for the lessons in your
struggle and the opportunitiesto walk with someone else in
(25:18):
their pain.
Thanks for listening.
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