December 23, 2022 • 34 mins
When her sister died suddenly, Nesreen's life was changed in every possible way. During her grief process, she discovered a new sense of clarity about how she wanted to live her life and sought out a "coach" to assist her in her journey. Listen in as Nesreen shares how the experience led her to a new purpose and mission to help other grievers.
https://harborlightcoaching.com
#sisterloss #griefcoach #hopeforgrievers #livingwithintention
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Episode Transcript
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Michelle (00:10):
Hey everybody and welcome back to Qualified, the
place where incredible peopleshare their stories of
overcoming great adversity andloss to inspire you and give you
hope. I'm Michelle Heaton. Wheredo you turn when you're
struggling in your grief? Whocan you talk to who understands,
(00:32):
who can offer resources andsupport? And who really knows
what grief feels like? Well, myguest today found herself asking
those very questions. Whensomeone near and dear to her,
her older sister passed awaysuddenly. She began seeing
therapists and trying outsupport groups, but never quite
(00:55):
felt like she was getting whatshe needed. Then a friend
suggested she hire a griefcoach, and suddenly the healing
began. Her experience was sobeneficial to her that she
decided to pursue furthereducation with the International
Coaching Federation, andultimately became a certified
(01:16):
grief coach. She's passionateabout helping others. And her
mission is to support peoplemoving through their grief, to
find peace, using practicaltools, exercises and resources.
In addition to her ICFcredentials, she holds a
master's degree incommunications, making her well
qualified to engage in authenticconversations with her clients.
(01:40):
Her name is Nesreen Ahmed, andit's my privilege to have her as
my guest on the show today.
Welcome to Qualified Nesreen.
Nesreen (01:49):
Thank you, Michelle, thank you so much for having me
today.
Michelle (01:52):
Of course. Well, to get started, I want to talk to
you a little bit about the griefyou experienced. One of your two
older sisters passed awaysuddenly back in 2013. Tell us
her name a little bit about thekind of person she was about
your relationship with her andalso the circumstances
surrounding her passing.
Nesreen (02:14):
My sister's name was Naveen. And forgive me if I get
a little emotional because thedate of her death is actually
coming up the anniversariescoming up in just over a week.
She was so smart, and so funnyand witty, and sarcastic and
(02:34):
fun. And deeply sensitive. And Imiss her.
Michelle (02:41):
I'm so sorry to hear that Nesreen
Nesreen (02:46):
I literally was at work on a Saturday afternoon, I got a
phone call. So I at that point,I had been living in San
Francisco for a few years. Andshe was out on tour with a show.
And they were in San Francisco,the current base there for a
month or two. And she passedaway unexpectedly in the hotel
room. And it was her bestfriend, another co worker of
(03:08):
hers on the tour that noticedthat like, hey, where is she?
And they finally were able toget into the room and and found
her.
Michelle (03:16):
I'm so very sorry to hear that Nesreen. It sounds
like she was a great sister andfriend. And you told me that she
was your hero. So I know herpassing had a great impact on
you. Can you talk about all theways your life was changed
moving forward?
Nesreen (03:34):
In every possible way, every possible way. Like I felt
like my core changed. Do youmean like who I was, what I
thought about and what I wantedand what how I responded and how
I acted and everything felt likeit changed. You know, and it was
(03:55):
it was a process. I mean,definitely the the initial
trauma was just that, you know,and it was incredibly hard to
try to wrap my head around whatwas happening, you know, in the
fact that I would never talk toher again. And the fact that I
had not responded to her lasttext message and and into there
are so many things that I stillwant to say to her and do with
(04:16):
her. And you know, so it wasdesperately challenged just to
kind of get through the day andtry to process what was
happening and then movingforward. It was like, Okay,
well, I know, I don't want tostay at San Francisco longer,
like I know want to go back toNew York because that's where,
you know, I spent over 10 yearsin New York before I went to San
Francisco and I felt like I hada much stronger you know,
(04:38):
network and had worked therethat I could just kind of fall
back into and a family is on theeast coast. So it all made sense
to go back to New York but butthen it was like then what you
know, here I am in New York, Ihave an apartment now and I have
work but my life is still inshambles. I'm you know, I'm
still in shambles. And so it wasvery much trying to figure out
who am I now? What do I want?
What's important, who'simportant, you know, and some of
(05:01):
those things were very obvious.
Like, I think when you losesomebody, you get a lot of
clarity in terms of what isimportant to you and shows
important those core people thatyou have a need in your life.
But a lot of bigger questions oflike, you know, what do I want
from my life and kind of person?
Do I want to be, you know, howcan I be more compassionate? How
can I be more thoughtful, moregrateful? How can I live with
(05:24):
more intention? Those are allthings that I, I was battling,
and I'm really trying to answer,in a way for the first time in
my life. Yeah,
Michelle (05:36):
I absolutely agree with you about how we see things
with a new clarity after losingsomeone dear to us. And I love
how you talked about consideringall the ways you could be more
compassionate, thoughtful,grateful, and intentional. loss
will make us take stock of ourlives and weed out the
(05:57):
unnecessary and the unimportant.
I felt that way after losing myson, Sean. So can you talk about
how you managed your griefimmediately following her
passing? Did you see acounselor?
Nesreen (06:12):
So actually, I went to a therapist, everybody was like,
You should be therapy, youshould go to therapy. And I was
like, okay, yeah, I should hithigh green. But what I didn't
know at the time was theyactually probably would have
benefited more from mycounselor, because I had been in
therapy before and and theperson that I ended up seeing
was not trained in grief. Youknow, not all, not all
therapists are trained in grief,I didn't realize that at the
(06:33):
time. And so I went in everyweek, and I talked about my
grief, but I left feeling prettymuch the same, you know, there
wasn't any, was it? I think shecould really do for me, you
know, in terms of helping theprocess, you know, whether it's
taxable tools, or, or ideas andtips, resources, anything like
that I wasn't really gettingvery much, she was a wonderful
(06:55):
therapist, but just not for whatI needed. You know, okay. And I
also went to support groups. Ittook a while, it took a while
for me to do anything, you know,in the beginning, especially,
but I went to a support groupspecifically for sibling loss.
And it was every other week, andI remember going one week, and
there was somebody in the groupthat asked the counselor, you
(07:16):
know, how long is too long to bein this group? How long before
we should we should get worriedor we should think about moving
on or, and the counselor said toyours, oh, if you, if you, if
you're here every other week fortwo years, and you still aren't
ready to move on? Then we shouldtalk about what's next, you
know, what's going on? And thatwas the thing that had me freak
(07:40):
out. That was a thing thathadn't been like, No, I can't, I
can't, I can't continue to comehere and be in this really
heightened state of grief forthe next two years. Like, I
couldn't imagine being able todo that, you know, and sustain
that. And that's when I reallywas like, I gotta figure
something else out, I gotta findsomebody else to work with, I
(08:02):
got to do something for myself,because I knew that, like, two
years was way too much time. Forme. And especially when you lose
somebody, suddenly, he starts toquestion your own mortality. You
know, you're like, I rememberfor the first two weeks after
she passed away, literally everyday I woke up, and I was
surprised that I was stillalive. You know, and that's not
(08:25):
something that people normallyexperience, right? Like, and so
I really had this sense ofurgency. When it came to like
dealing with my grief, I neededsomething that was going to be
more helpful and more immediate,to help me kind of start to
climb out of the hole. So atthat point, I was also already
in training to be a life andbusiness coach. And in that
(08:49):
program, had started talkingabout grief coaching. And I had
never heard of it before. And Iwas like, I'm so curious about
this, you know, and I would liketo know more, because I know
that coaching is about movingforward, it is about, you know,
reaching goals. And I was like,I have a very big goal of
dealing my youth. And I wouldlike to address that with
somebody, you know, how do I howdo I make that happen? Yeah, so
(09:11):
she introduced me to the griefcoach, and again, it took a
while, but I finally did callher and I'm so glad that I did.
Michelle (09:18):
You know, I completely understand that sense of urgency
you described. And I can relateto the point you made about
questioning your own mortality.
When we lose someone, suddenly,there can be real anxiety that
follows about just how anythingcan happen at any time. And if
we don't talk to someone aboutthose feelings and work them
out, they can be destructive. Soyou began meeting with the grief
(09:43):
coach and talking through yourgrief. Tell us more about those
sessions, how you felt aboutthem and how long the process
took for you.
Nesreen (09:53):
You know, it wasn't very long. So she works. She and
now I work with people through amethod called The Grief Recovery
method. that. And that istypically an eight session
process. And there's readinginvolved, and there's writing
involved, and I obviously speakabout it with the coach. And
that, for me felt like, it gaveme something to do with my
(10:14):
grief. You know what I mean? Sooften, we just sort of just
sitting there, like, I have somany memories of just sort of
staring off into space, youknow, my mind was either
completely blank, or likerunning, running, running. And
then I would just go and talk intherapy, and then go home. And
that would kind of be the end ofit. Right. And with this
(10:34):
process, I felt like I hadsomething to do. You know, I had
to read a little bit, I had tolearn something, I had to write
something I had to, you know,really kind of process and work
through all those things. I feltunfinished. And that felt so it
spoke to me. Yeah, it felt likeit was more proactive. Felt like
(10:54):
it was more. Yeah, it just gaveme something to do. It
Michelle (10:59):
sounds like a great approach. I like the idea of
having structured reading andwriting assignments, in addition
to the talk therapy, that'sgood. So tell us how that
experience prompted you to startthe accreditation process to
become a grief coach?
Nesreen (11:14):
Well, honestly, you know, it was it was a very
difficult but also very easydecision to make the release of
I felt after working with mycoach keys that I felt, you
know, in saying, okay, like,this happened, of course, I
would never want this to happen.
But now that it's happened, andI feel like I have worked
through a lot of the things thathappened in my relationship with
(11:36):
my sister, you know, I feel moreat peace. I never imagined that
could happen. I honestly neverimagined that I could say it's
okay. Right. And the fact that Icould, was that alone was what
inspired me to go into griefcoaching, because I wanted to
give that to other people I knewso many other people who've gone
through loss, and who couldnever say something like that
(11:59):
could never feel that way. Youknow, they were either
repressing their grief, or theywere, you know, in therapy or
sport groups like me week afterweek after week, you know, and
I, I know, there's just so muchsuffering in the world. And I
was like, you know, the factthat I can feel this way. It's,
to me a miracle, frankly, youknow, and I want to be able to
give that to others, you know,and so, so that was the easy
(12:20):
part. The hard part was thenbeing like, Okay, I'm actually
gonna go and I'm gonna get, youknow, trained, and I'm gonna go
get certified, I'm gonna gostart doing the work and
actually work with people. Andthat, you know, all of that was
scary for different reasons, youknow, especially the working
with people in the beginning Ilove it's like, you know, it's
just, am I qualified? Am Iqualified enough in all the
(12:43):
impostor syndrome in thequestions, and really just
finally learning how to trustthe process and trust the person
in front of me and trust myself?
You know, it comes in time. Itcomes in time. But yeah, it was
definitely daunting in thebeginning.
Michelle (12:59):
Yeah, well, I think it's great that you decided to
do it, because your own personalexperience with grief is so
valuable to others, in additionto the education you received,
Have there ever been times whenyou're coaching someone, or
their situation reminds you ofyour own loss? And how difficult
is that for you?
Nesreen (13:17):
Oh, my gosh, yeah.
Yeah. I mean, there's, I mean,again, like I do feel very much
at peace with my sister, butcertainly, there's so much, you
know, heartbreak in what peopleare cheering and, you know, some
of the tragedies they've beenthrough, it breaks your heart,
it breaks your heart, you know,it's not unusual to see me
tearing up, you know, with aclient from time to time. So
(13:37):
yeah, it's intense. It is it's,it's not something I think
everybody should do, or couldn'tdo. And certainly a lot of
people don't want to do
Michelle (13:48):
Yeah, sounds like a calling, And can you also talk
about the differences betweencounseling or therapy and
coaching to help us understandwhat might be best for the stage
of grief we're experiencing?
Nesreen (14:03):
You have the option of going in to see a therapist, a
counselor or coach, I alwaysrecommend if you're grieving to
find a therapist who does dealwith grief, who is experienced
and trained in grief. But moreoften than not, if you're
needing to see a therapist,because you're grieving, you
might be experiencingcomplicated grief, where it's,
it's gotten to the point whereit's really interrupting your
(14:23):
daily routine, it's hard to getthrough the day, you can't focus
on work, maybe you can't reallyfocus with your kids. Or if you
had a complicated relationshipwith your lost loved one. If
your grief is bringing up a lotof other unresolved grief, that
would be a good time to go tosee a therapist. The counselor I
usually recommend typically, youknow, soon after the last, you
(14:45):
know, within for six, six monthsto a year after the loss, that's
when a counselor would be reallyhelpful because they can give
you some really practical toolsand resources and help you
process that loss right and helpyou kind of learn had to move
through your grief while you'realso living your life and
through your, your day. And thencoaching. You know, coaching is
(15:08):
really, most people, I coach,I'll say have gone to counseling
or therapy, they've gone tosupport groups, but they didn't
get quite what they needed. Andso they definitely want to work
through their grief, they wantthat structure that you've
mentioned earlier, and they wantto do things, right, they don't
want to just come and talk andkind of go home, they really
want to work towards something.
And so a lot of people I workwith, have done some of the
(15:31):
grief work already. And so wewill work through the rest of
their grief. And then also lookat what's next, you know, do
they? Do they want to continuein their chosen career? Do they
want to? Are they in arelationship that's not working?
Are they not in a relationshipbut want to be in relationship?
Do they want to overhaul theirwhole life, you know, really
what's next and, and findingthat, that thing that will help
(15:53):
make them more satisfied, youknow, so that's a lot of the
work that I do as a coach. Sothat would be a good time, if
you're really kind of, okay,I've done enough grief work, and
now I'm looking towards what'snext, that would be a good time
to see a coach.
Michelle (16:06):
So now that you've been doing this for more than
six years, can you talk aboutone of the greatest outcomes
you've seen with a client thatsort of affirmed your decision
to keep coaching?
Nesreen (16:17):
a lot of clients the relief or the outcome is the
relief should say, the outcomeis the peace. You know, like, I
worked with a woman who had losther mother, her husband and her
son, all within the span ofabout four years. And we work
(16:38):
together and ultimately, youknow, the focus that that she
chose was to work onrelationship with her son. And
there was still questions interms of, you know, what
happened to him, his last fewhours, how he died, you know, so
there's a lot of unknown, he wasan adult, he had children, you
know, and a spouse and so therewas a lot of tragedy, you know,
mixed into his his passing. Andshe told me, you know, that she
(17:01):
didn't ever expect to get overit. She's like, you don't get
over the loss of a child, youjust don't, you know, and I
won't say that she, at the endsaid, I'm over it, you know,
certainly not. But she didremark at how unexpectedly she
felt and how she's like, Ididn't believe this would work.
I didn't believe it was possibleto feel okay. You know, and to
(17:25):
be to be okay, you know, andthat the weight that she said
that she had been kind of livingunder was was lifted. Yeah. And
so that's, you know, that to me,like, you know, I always get
chills when I when I hear thingslike that and think about things
like that, because that's reallythe best that I feel like I can
offer. Yeah, yeah, sense ofpeace and the feeling of being
(17:48):
okay. And, and having thatburden lifted. You know, but I
have a lot of clients that I'veworked with that, you know, we
might start in grief. And thenwe we switch to more general
life coaching, because now it'slike, what do I do now? You
know, where do I go? Do I wantto stay forever? I the client
actually does talk to youearlier today. And she's like, I
don't think I want to stay in mycareer anymore. But what does
(18:09):
that mean? And where do I gofrom here? You know, and so, I
do have a number of clientswho've made some really
beautiful shifts in their lives.
And I have a client, you know,who always wanted little
receipts should review receipts,I have another client who wants
to start a business, she starteda business, you know, so there's
wonderful outcomes, you know,but I think to me, the best
outcome is just hearing somebodysay how muchbetter they feel?
Michelle (18:34):
Well, that is huge.
Having lost a child myself, Ican attest to what your client
said, it's not something youever get over. But to feel good
again, to enjoy life, again, issuch a step forward. So thank
you for doing what you're doing.
That's awesome. So based on whatyou have learned, can you share
(18:57):
with us one or two things thatyou think are critical to living
life again, after the loss of aloved one?
Nesreen (19:04):
Yes, first, definitely support, support, support
support, I'm a huge advocate ofgetting unreasonable amounts of
support while you're grieving.
Yeah, you know, have atherapist, have a counselor,
have a coach, have friends, havefamily have support groups have
whatever you need pastors, youknow, ever you need, whoever you
need, as much as you need, getsupport. You know, I think that
(19:27):
it's, oh, it's heartbreaking tosee how many people isolate
during grief and how we feellike we have to because people
either say that say the wrongthings or do the wrong things.
So they assume we should be okayby now or they're judging how
we're going through our griefand, you know, it feels very
unsafe. Right. It just feelsvery unsafe to be around people.
(19:48):
The problem with that is, wedon't heal in isolation. Right?
You know, we heal Together WeHeal with people we heal and
community, we heal from beingheard and seen and witnessed and
validated. And we need that,especially when we're grieving.
You know, every human needs thatbut especially when we're
grieving. And so I think supportwould be the absolute number one
(20:12):
thing in order to come back, youknow, from the grief and to be
able to live and live fullyhope, just hope that that you
can actually learn to integratethis and learn to live with this
and be able to move forward. Youknow, I know a lot of people who
have gone through loss and theylose that hope, and have lost it
(20:34):
permanently. Yes, yeah. I thinkthat's where that's where the
decline happens. Yeah. You knowwhat I mean? Yeah. The physical,
the health and mental. Andthere's there, it's sort of a
decline that, that doesn'treally end for people when
they've lost that hope, Link.
Yeah. And I think I think thelast one is just like that, kind
(20:56):
of along the same lines, butlike, an inner strength. And
that could be, you know, somepeople talk about a higher power
in some people talking aboutjust within themselves, but
something that kind of pulls youup and pulls you forward.
Michelle (21:10):
So support and hope I could not agree more. There's
this quote, I've heard so manytimes, man can live about 40
days without food, about threedays without water, about eight
minutes without air, but onlyfor one second without hope. And
I love that because I believehaving faith and hope are so
(21:31):
important when we're grieving.
So do you believe that havingfaith in God is a key component
to overcoming the devastation ofloss? And how have you seen that
lived out in the lives of yourclients? Or, or even yourself
with the loss of your sister?
Nesreen (21:47):
Well, you know, I have so many different, I have so
many different people who I workwith, who move away from
religion or move away from theirface while they're grieving. You
know, they get angry at God, Imyself, also got angry, you
know, very angry at God. And Iwas like, how, how can this
happen? How could you let thishappen? You know, and so I don't
(22:10):
know that sake is is arequirement, right to heal. But
I, I do know, a lot of peoplewho live also found so much
comfort in their faith in theirin their traditions. You know, I
know a lot of different I know,each religion has its own sort
of tradition in terms of what todo when somebody passes away,
(22:31):
how to bury them, when to burythem, the process of grieving
and mourning, you know, and Ilove the fact that I think each
major phase has some kind ofcoming together. Right? There's
rituals or traditions, there'sthings that you do, because we
need, like, we need thatsupport, right? We need that
community, we shouldn't betrying to do this alone. And so
(22:52):
I love the fact that, you know,pretty much every every face
that I know about has someversion of coming together and
mourning together, you know,celebrating and honoring that
person. And I think that is sovital. You know, and I think
it's so beautiful. And the factthat so many cultures will will
have some kind of tradition, inorder to honor that last person,
(23:16):
I think is is wonderful, youknow, but I don't know that.
Faith is a is a necessarycomponent. But I mean, it
certainly has helped so so manypeople I know. Yeah. And
Michelle (23:28):
when we talked before I told you that as a Christian,
that my faith was vital to notonly helping me heal, but also
to provide that hope you talkabout. There's actually a
scripture in the bible in FirstThessalonians chapter four,
verse 13, where the apostle Paulis telling people not to grieve
(23:48):
as those who have no hope. Andhe was referring to the hope of
heaven. And I believe that Iwill see my son Shawn again one
day. And that greatly enabled myability to heal. And with regard
to what you said about beingangry at God, boy, I think
almost everybody who I'veinterviewed, that's lost,
someone has gone through that.
And I always say that whensomething like this happens that
(24:12):
we either run to God or we runaway from God, and thankfully
for me, that's that's where myfaith came in. So I'm glad to
hear that many of your clientshave embraced their faith
because I think that does help.
So the anniversary of yoursister's passing is December 21.
And you said before thatChristmas and New Year's is
(24:33):
really difficult for you. Whatwould you say to someone who's
stuck in their grief right nowespecially in this holiday
season?
Nesreen (24:42):
I think I don't know if everybody would agree with me,
but I have a I gave strongadvice about canceling the
holidays if you need to. Justcancel it you know If you need
to stay in bed, if you need tostay at home, if you need to
(25:03):
pretend they're on happening,that's okay. Right? If you, you
know, need to not see yourfamily or, or not go to that
holiday party or say no to theoffice event or whatever, it is
totally fine. You're totallyfine. You know, I think there's
so much pressure to be jolly tobe in the Christmas season, you
(25:23):
know, to enjoy and celebrate asif it's a good time for
everyone. You know, and I cantell you the first at least five
years, I couldn't, I couldn't behappy during the holidays. I
absolutely couldn't, you know,it just it was not happening.
And I didn't feel likepretending, you know, when I'm
eating, why would I pretend thatI was happy? You know, when it
(25:47):
was right around the time thatmy sister died? How could I
pretend you know, and it feltlike it was an insult and
dishonouring of her to try topretend Yeah, you know. And so,
I I'm very strongly, you know, Iknow a lot of people like you
don't just go out and try to behappy, you know, try to enjoy,
put on a good front, you mightenjoy yourself. And listen, if
(26:07):
that's what you want to do, goabsolutely enjoy, you know, as
much as you can enjoy. But Ialso have a very strong
recommendation that it's totallyfine to just avoid him, avoid
the holidays, let everybodyknow, you know, be very clear
about what's going on for you bevery clear about what within
reason, right? You don't have totell them exactly what's
happening. But, you know, I'mgrieving right now, this is not
(26:30):
a good time of the year for me,I'm not going to be around very
much, I really appreciate yourinvitations, or you know that
you're having this event, andI'm so sorry, I can't be there,
I would show the best and leaveit at that, you know, but be
very clear, set your boundaries,set your boundaries with your
people, you know, the people inyour life, let them know, if
you're going to be able to makeit or not, and why and how many
times you will have to have thatconversation, you know, having
(26:52):
them try to convince you just belike, This is the last time
we're talking about this, youknow, and, and, you know, set
those boundaries, set thoseexpectations and do what you
need to take care of yourself.
Yeah, and I, I certainly don'twant to advocate isolating and
avoiding and, you know, notgetting support and all that
kind of stuff. But that isdifferent than No, I'm not going
to be able to celebrate thisduring this day or during this
(27:16):
time of year. And it is hardbecause it means putting
yourself first. And a lot ofpeople struggle with that, you
know, myself included, but I I'ma big advocate of doing what you
need to do.
Michelle (27:31):
So on a I guess a very personal level, how are you
feeling this year aboutcelebrating another holiday
without Naveen?
Nesreen (27:45):
You know, it's been this will be the ninth year. And
in some ways, it still feelslike it's the it's fresh, you
know, we're actually taking mydaughter on the 21st we're
traveling down to to Virginia tostay with my dad, and then my
sister and my other sistersgonna come later that afternoon.
So I'm really glad that we'll beable to gather, you know, and
(28:07):
gather on that day specifically.
But I'm also I have a lot ofanticipatory grief because my
mother has been battlingAlzheimer's for a number of
years. And the nursing facilitybasically told us to prepare
ourselves. So you know, we don'tI don't know if she'll pass
before the end of the year. Insome ways. I really hope not. In
some ways, I do hope because Idon't want her to suffer. But I
(28:31):
yeah, I anticipate if she does,and it'll make the holidays even
harder. So there's, there's alot of mixed emotions going on
right now. And I'm missing mysister and then also missing my
mom.
Michelle (28:46):
Well, I'm very sorry to hear about your mom. And I'm
also glad that she'll be able togather as a family this year,
although I imagine it will stillinvolve a mix of joy and
sadness. But I think as we gothrough these hard things, we
learn more, and probably a lotof lessons that you'll be able
to pass on to your clients. ButI do believe it makes us
(29:08):
stronger and gives us wisdomthat we can pass along. So on
that note, can you share with usthe big life lessons that you
learned, following the loss ofyour sister, that might help
someone who just lost theirsister, or someone else dear to
them at this difficult time?
Nesreen (29:27):
Three things come to mind. One, how you feel today is
not how you'll always feel. Youknow, it's so easy for us to
kind of get stuck and immersedin our grief. And we kind of
assume that it will never end.
But we evolve and change everyday. And so it was our grief.
You know and so how your grieffeels today will not be how it
(29:48):
feels next week, next month,next year, and so on. So just
have, have hope have faith thatit will evolve and change just
as you will. The second oneperhaps the one that took me the
least amount of time to realize,but the most amount of time to
actually achieve is to live,like really live. You know, live
a life that you care about livea life that you feel satisfied
(30:12):
with live a life that you know,leaves a legacy, you know, for
your loved ones and makes youproud. You know, make bold
choices, don't be scared of whatpeople say or think and, you
know, live your life and live itto the most I think is one of
the most important things we cando, especially after a loss, you
(30:34):
know, is to find that courage toreally live. And the last is to
is to really love, love thepeople in your life. Tell them
how much you love them, tellthem why tell them with the
memories of little moments thatthey may not even remember, you
know, things that touch you,that means so much to you know,
(30:54):
show them the gratitude and thelove and the appreciation that
you have for them as much as youcan as often as you can, you
know, we never know what's goingto happen. We never know when
someone will be taken from us.
And you know, one of thebiggest, the worst things to
live with is that guilt andregret of not having said, I
(31:16):
love you, or I appreciate you,or I miss you, you know, I want
you in my life I'm so gratefulto have in my life, whatever it
is, right? So express how youreally feel to the people that
mean the most to you. Yeah,
Michelle (31:28):
good advice. I've heard so many people say that,
you know, looking back that someof the biggest moments were
really just the smallest things.
And so it's so important just toappreciate all of it I agree. On
the stream, Where can thoselistening go to find more about
the work you do? And if theywant to get in touch with you?
How can they do that.
Nesreen (31:51):
So the best way is just go to my website,
harborlightcoaching.com And isthe form on there. There's also
a grief assessment. So ifsomebody's confused about
coaching and how it differs fromtherapy or counseling, and they
want to get a better sense ofwhere they are, they can take
the assessment totally free. Andyou know that that'll give them
basically their results ofletting them know, okay, you're
(32:12):
really right for, for counselorat this point, or you should
actually see a therapist rightnow, or coaching is a good
option for you, you know, sojust to help kind of clarify,
because I know there's a lot ofconfusion about the different
modalities, and especially whenyou're grieving, it's so hard to
reach out, it's so hard to findthe support, you know, and so I
want to make it easy for peopleso that a lot of free resources
(32:32):
on my website. And I'd saythat's the best place to go.
Michelle (32:35):
That's wonderful. And I'll put a link in the show
notes to make it easy to find.
Well Nesreen I just want tothank you so much for coming on
the show today and sharing yourpersonal story of loss. Your
journey to becoming a griefcoach, and some of the valuable
lessons you learned about griefand loss. It was great having
you here.
Nesreen (32:54):
Thank you, Michelle, thank you very much for having
me.
Michelle (32:57):
You're welcome.
So for those of you listening,if you were able to identify
with some of the emotions,Nazarene shared following the
loss of her sister, know thatyou're not alone, and that these
feelings are normal and naturalto experience. And if you feel
stuck in your grief, and arehaving difficulty moving on with
(33:18):
your life due to the sadness anddespair, I get it. I truly do. I
was at that place at one pointtoo. But the key elements
Nazarene spoke of support andhope really can make a
difference. Please reach out toa counselor, therapist, grief
(33:39):
coach, or pastor for support.
qualified people are out thereand they want to help. And don't
forget to embrace hope. As we'vetalked about so many times on
the podcast. There's purpose inthe pain you're going through as
hard as it is right now. You cansurvive with support and hope.
And one day you'll be able tohelp others with the lessons you
(34:02):
learned in your loss. Thanks forlistening
Hey everybody and welcome back to Qualified, the
place where incredible peopleshare their stories of
overcoming great adversity andloss to inspire you and give you
hope. I'm Michelle Heaton. Wheredo you turn when you're
struggling in your grief? Whocan you talk to who understands,
(00:32):
who can offer resources andsupport? And who really knows
what grief feels like? Well, myguest today found herself asking
those very questions. Whensomeone near and dear to her,
her older sister passed awaysuddenly. She began seeing
therapists and trying outsupport groups, but never quite
(00:55):
felt like she was getting whatshe needed. Then a friend
suggested she hire a griefcoach, and suddenly the healing
began. Her experience was sobeneficial to her that she
decided to pursue furthereducation with the International
Coaching Federation, andultimately became a certified
(01:16):
grief coach. She's passionateabout helping others. And her
mission is to support peoplemoving through their grief, to
find peace, using practicaltools, exercises and resources.
In addition to her ICFcredentials, she holds a
master's degree incommunications, making her well
qualified to engage in authenticconversations with her clients.
(01:40):
Her name is Nesreen Ahmed, andit's my privilege to have her as
my guest on the show today.
Welcome to Qualified Nesreen.
Nesreen (01:49):
Thank you, Michelle, thank you so much for having me
today.
Michelle (01:52):
Of course. Well, to get started, I want to talk to
you a little bit about the griefyou experienced. One of your two
older sisters passed awaysuddenly back in 2013. Tell us
her name a little bit about thekind of person she was about
your relationship with her andalso the circumstances
surrounding her passing.
Nesreen (02:14):
My sister's name was Naveen. And forgive me if I get
a little emotional because thedate of her death is actually
coming up the anniversariescoming up in just over a week.
She was so smart, and so funnyand witty, and sarcastic and
(02:34):
fun. And deeply sensitive. And Imiss her.
Michelle (02:41):
I'm so sorry to hear that Nesreen
Nesreen (02:46):
I literally was at work on a Saturday afternoon, I got a
phone call. So I at that point,I had been living in San
Francisco for a few years. Andshe was out on tour with a show.
And they were in San Francisco,the current base there for a
month or two. And she passedaway unexpectedly in the hotel
room. And it was her bestfriend, another co worker of
(03:08):
hers on the tour that noticedthat like, hey, where is she?
And they finally were able toget into the room and and found
her.
Michelle (03:16):
I'm so very sorry to hear that Nesreen. It sounds
like she was a great sister andfriend. And you told me that she
was your hero. So I know herpassing had a great impact on
you. Can you talk about all theways your life was changed
moving forward?
Nesreen (03:34):
In every possible way, every possible way. Like I felt
like my core changed. Do youmean like who I was, what I
thought about and what I wantedand what how I responded and how
I acted and everything felt likeit changed. You know, and it was
(03:55):
it was a process. I mean,definitely the the initial
trauma was just that, you know,and it was incredibly hard to
try to wrap my head around whatwas happening, you know, in the
fact that I would never talk toher again. And the fact that I
had not responded to her lasttext message and and into there
are so many things that I stillwant to say to her and do with
(04:16):
her. And you know, so it wasdesperately challenged just to
kind of get through the day andtry to process what was
happening and then movingforward. It was like, Okay,
well, I know, I don't want tostay at San Francisco longer,
like I know want to go back toNew York because that's where,
you know, I spent over 10 yearsin New York before I went to San
Francisco and I felt like I hada much stronger you know,
(04:38):
network and had worked therethat I could just kind of fall
back into and a family is on theeast coast. So it all made sense
to go back to New York but butthen it was like then what you
know, here I am in New York, Ihave an apartment now and I have
work but my life is still inshambles. I'm you know, I'm
still in shambles. And so it wasvery much trying to figure out
who am I now? What do I want?
What's important, who'simportant, you know, and some of
(05:01):
those things were very obvious.
Like, I think when you losesomebody, you get a lot of
clarity in terms of what isimportant to you and shows
important those core people thatyou have a need in your life.
But a lot of bigger questions oflike, you know, what do I want
from my life and kind of person?
Do I want to be, you know, howcan I be more compassionate? How
can I be more thoughtful, moregrateful? How can I live with
(05:24):
more intention? Those are allthings that I, I was battling,
and I'm really trying to answer,in a way for the first time in
my life. Yeah,
Michelle (05:36):
I absolutely agree with you about how we see things
with a new clarity after losingsomeone dear to us. And I love
how you talked about consideringall the ways you could be more
compassionate, thoughtful,grateful, and intentional. loss
will make us take stock of ourlives and weed out the
(05:57):
unnecessary and the unimportant.
I felt that way after losing myson, Sean. So can you talk about
how you managed your griefimmediately following her
passing? Did you see acounselor?
Nesreen (06:12):
So actually, I went to a therapist, everybody was like,
You should be therapy, youshould go to therapy. And I was
like, okay, yeah, I should hithigh green. But what I didn't
know at the time was theyactually probably would have
benefited more from mycounselor, because I had been in
therapy before and and theperson that I ended up seeing
was not trained in grief. Youknow, not all, not all
therapists are trained in grief,I didn't realize that at the
(06:33):
time. And so I went in everyweek, and I talked about my
grief, but I left feeling prettymuch the same, you know, there
wasn't any, was it? I think shecould really do for me, you
know, in terms of helping theprocess, you know, whether it's
taxable tools, or, or ideas andtips, resources, anything like
that I wasn't really gettingvery much, she was a wonderful
(06:55):
therapist, but just not for whatI needed. You know, okay. And I
also went to support groups. Ittook a while, it took a while
for me to do anything, you know,in the beginning, especially,
but I went to a support groupspecifically for sibling loss.
And it was every other week, andI remember going one week, and
there was somebody in the groupthat asked the counselor, you
(07:16):
know, how long is too long to bein this group? How long before
we should we should get worriedor we should think about moving
on or, and the counselor said toyours, oh, if you, if you, if
you're here every other week fortwo years, and you still aren't
ready to move on? Then we shouldtalk about what's next, you
know, what's going on? And thatwas the thing that had me freak
(07:40):
out. That was a thing thathadn't been like, No, I can't, I
can't, I can't continue to comehere and be in this really
heightened state of grief forthe next two years. Like, I
couldn't imagine being able todo that, you know, and sustain
that. And that's when I reallywas like, I gotta figure
something else out, I gotta findsomebody else to work with, I
(08:02):
got to do something for myself,because I knew that, like, two
years was way too much time. Forme. And especially when you lose
somebody, suddenly, he starts toquestion your own mortality. You
know, you're like, I rememberfor the first two weeks after
she passed away, literally everyday I woke up, and I was
surprised that I was stillalive. You know, and that's not
(08:25):
something that people normallyexperience, right? Like, and so
I really had this sense ofurgency. When it came to like
dealing with my grief, I neededsomething that was going to be
more helpful and more immediate,to help me kind of start to
climb out of the hole. So atthat point, I was also already
in training to be a life andbusiness coach. And in that
(08:49):
program, had started talkingabout grief coaching. And I had
never heard of it before. And Iwas like, I'm so curious about
this, you know, and I would liketo know more, because I know
that coaching is about movingforward, it is about, you know,
reaching goals. And I was like,I have a very big goal of
dealing my youth. And I wouldlike to address that with
somebody, you know, how do I howdo I make that happen? Yeah, so
(09:11):
she introduced me to the griefcoach, and again, it took a
while, but I finally did callher and I'm so glad that I did.
Michelle (09:18):
You know, I completely understand that sense of urgency
you described. And I can relateto the point you made about
questioning your own mortality.
When we lose someone, suddenly,there can be real anxiety that
follows about just how anythingcan happen at any time. And if
we don't talk to someone aboutthose feelings and work them
out, they can be destructive. Soyou began meeting with the grief
(09:43):
coach and talking through yourgrief. Tell us more about those
sessions, how you felt aboutthem and how long the process
took for you.
Nesreen (09:53):
You know, it wasn't very long. So she works. She and
now I work with people through amethod called The Grief Recovery
method. that. And that istypically an eight session
process. And there's readinginvolved, and there's writing
involved, and I obviously speakabout it with the coach. And
that, for me felt like, it gaveme something to do with my
(10:14):
grief. You know what I mean? Sooften, we just sort of just
sitting there, like, I have somany memories of just sort of
staring off into space, youknow, my mind was either
completely blank, or likerunning, running, running. And
then I would just go and talk intherapy, and then go home. And
that would kind of be the end ofit. Right. And with this
(10:34):
process, I felt like I hadsomething to do. You know, I had
to read a little bit, I had tolearn something, I had to write
something I had to, you know,really kind of process and work
through all those things. I feltunfinished. And that felt so it
spoke to me. Yeah, it felt likeit was more proactive. Felt like
(10:54):
it was more. Yeah, it just gaveme something to do. It
Michelle (10:59):
sounds like a great approach. I like the idea of
having structured reading andwriting assignments, in addition
to the talk therapy, that'sgood. So tell us how that
experience prompted you to startthe accreditation process to
become a grief coach?
Nesreen (11:14):
Well, honestly, you know, it was it was a very
difficult but also very easydecision to make the release of
I felt after working with mycoach keys that I felt, you
know, in saying, okay, like,this happened, of course, I
would never want this to happen.
But now that it's happened, andI feel like I have worked
through a lot of the things thathappened in my relationship with
(11:36):
my sister, you know, I feel moreat peace. I never imagined that
could happen. I honestly neverimagined that I could say it's
okay. Right. And the fact that Icould, was that alone was what
inspired me to go into griefcoaching, because I wanted to
give that to other people I knewso many other people who've gone
through loss, and who couldnever say something like that
(11:59):
could never feel that way. Youknow, they were either
repressing their grief, or theywere, you know, in therapy or
sport groups like me week afterweek after week, you know, and
I, I know, there's just so muchsuffering in the world. And I
was like, you know, the factthat I can feel this way. It's,
to me a miracle, frankly, youknow, and I want to be able to
give that to others, you know,and so, so that was the easy
(12:20):
part. The hard part was thenbeing like, Okay, I'm actually
gonna go and I'm gonna get, youknow, trained, and I'm gonna go
get certified, I'm gonna gostart doing the work and
actually work with people. Andthat, you know, all of that was
scary for different reasons, youknow, especially the working
with people in the beginning Ilove it's like, you know, it's
just, am I qualified? Am Iqualified enough in all the
(12:43):
impostor syndrome in thequestions, and really just
finally learning how to trustthe process and trust the person
in front of me and trust myself?
You know, it comes in time. Itcomes in time. But yeah, it was
definitely daunting in thebeginning.
Michelle (12:59):
Yeah, well, I think it's great that you decided to
do it, because your own personalexperience with grief is so
valuable to others, in additionto the education you received,
Have there ever been times whenyou're coaching someone, or
their situation reminds you ofyour own loss? And how difficult
is that for you?
Nesreen (13:17):
Oh, my gosh, yeah.
Yeah. I mean, there's, I mean,again, like I do feel very much
at peace with my sister, butcertainly, there's so much, you
know, heartbreak in what peopleare cheering and, you know, some
of the tragedies they've beenthrough, it breaks your heart,
it breaks your heart, you know,it's not unusual to see me
tearing up, you know, with aclient from time to time. So
(13:37):
yeah, it's intense. It is it's,it's not something I think
everybody should do, or couldn'tdo. And certainly a lot of
people don't want to do
Michelle (13:48):
Yeah, sounds like a calling, And can you also talk
about the differences betweencounseling or therapy and
coaching to help us understandwhat might be best for the stage
of grief we're experiencing?
Nesreen (14:03):
You have the option of going in to see a therapist, a
counselor or coach, I alwaysrecommend if you're grieving to
find a therapist who does dealwith grief, who is experienced
and trained in grief. But moreoften than not, if you're
needing to see a therapist,because you're grieving, you
might be experiencingcomplicated grief, where it's,
it's gotten to the point whereit's really interrupting your
(14:23):
daily routine, it's hard to getthrough the day, you can't focus
on work, maybe you can't reallyfocus with your kids. Or if you
had a complicated relationshipwith your lost loved one. If
your grief is bringing up a lotof other unresolved grief, that
would be a good time to go tosee a therapist. The counselor I
usually recommend typically, youknow, soon after the last, you
(14:45):
know, within for six, six monthsto a year after the loss, that's
when a counselor would be reallyhelpful because they can give
you some really practical toolsand resources and help you
process that loss right and helpyou kind of learn had to move
through your grief while you'realso living your life and
through your, your day. And thencoaching. You know, coaching is
(15:08):
really, most people, I coach,I'll say have gone to counseling
or therapy, they've gone tosupport groups, but they didn't
get quite what they needed. Andso they definitely want to work
through their grief, they wantthat structure that you've
mentioned earlier, and they wantto do things, right, they don't
want to just come and talk andkind of go home, they really
want to work towards something.
And so a lot of people I workwith, have done some of the
(15:31):
grief work already. And so wewill work through the rest of
their grief. And then also lookat what's next, you know, do
they? Do they want to continuein their chosen career? Do they
want to? Are they in arelationship that's not working?
Are they not in a relationshipbut want to be in relationship?
Do they want to overhaul theirwhole life, you know, really
what's next and, and findingthat, that thing that will help
(15:53):
make them more satisfied, youknow, so that's a lot of the
work that I do as a coach. Sothat would be a good time, if
you're really kind of, okay,I've done enough grief work, and
now I'm looking towards what'snext, that would be a good time
to see a coach.
Michelle (16:06):
So now that you've been doing this for more than
six years, can you talk aboutone of the greatest outcomes
you've seen with a client thatsort of affirmed your decision
to keep coaching?
Nesreen (16:17):
a lot of clients the relief or the outcome is the
relief should say, the outcomeis the peace. You know, like, I
worked with a woman who had losther mother, her husband and her
son, all within the span ofabout four years. And we work
(16:38):
together and ultimately, youknow, the focus that that she
chose was to work onrelationship with her son. And
there was still questions interms of, you know, what
happened to him, his last fewhours, how he died, you know, so
there's a lot of unknown, he wasan adult, he had children, you
know, and a spouse and so therewas a lot of tragedy, you know,
mixed into his his passing. Andshe told me, you know, that she
(17:01):
didn't ever expect to get overit. She's like, you don't get
over the loss of a child, youjust don't, you know, and I
won't say that she, at the endsaid, I'm over it, you know,
certainly not. But she didremark at how unexpectedly she
felt and how she's like, Ididn't believe this would work.
I didn't believe it was possibleto feel okay. You know, and to
(17:25):
be to be okay, you know, andthat the weight that she said
that she had been kind of livingunder was was lifted. Yeah. And
so that's, you know, that to me,like, you know, I always get
chills when I when I hear thingslike that and think about things
like that, because that's reallythe best that I feel like I can
offer. Yeah, yeah, sense ofpeace and the feeling of being
(17:48):
okay. And, and having thatburden lifted. You know, but I
have a lot of clients that I'veworked with that, you know, we
might start in grief. And thenwe we switch to more general
life coaching, because now it'slike, what do I do now? You
know, where do I go? Do I wantto stay forever? I the client
actually does talk to youearlier today. And she's like, I
don't think I want to stay in mycareer anymore. But what does
(18:09):
that mean? And where do I gofrom here? You know, and so, I
do have a number of clientswho've made some really
beautiful shifts in their lives.
And I have a client, you know,who always wanted little
receipts should review receipts,I have another client who wants
to start a business, she starteda business, you know, so there's
wonderful outcomes, you know,but I think to me, the best
outcome is just hearing somebodysay how muchbetter they feel?
Michelle (18:34):
Well, that is huge.
Having lost a child myself, Ican attest to what your client
said, it's not something youever get over. But to feel good
again, to enjoy life, again, issuch a step forward. So thank
you for doing what you're doing.
That's awesome. So based on whatyou have learned, can you share
(18:57):
with us one or two things thatyou think are critical to living
life again, after the loss of aloved one?
Nesreen (19:04):
Yes, first, definitely support, support, support
support, I'm a huge advocate ofgetting unreasonable amounts of
support while you're grieving.
Yeah, you know, have atherapist, have a counselor,
have a coach, have friends, havefamily have support groups have
whatever you need pastors, youknow, ever you need, whoever you
need, as much as you need, getsupport. You know, I think that
(19:27):
it's, oh, it's heartbreaking tosee how many people isolate
during grief and how we feellike we have to because people
either say that say the wrongthings or do the wrong things.
So they assume we should be okayby now or they're judging how
we're going through our griefand, you know, it feels very
unsafe. Right. It just feelsvery unsafe to be around people.
(19:48):
The problem with that is, wedon't heal in isolation. Right?
You know, we heal Together WeHeal with people we heal and
community, we heal from beingheard and seen and witnessed and
validated. And we need that,especially when we're grieving.
You know, every human needs thatbut especially when we're
grieving. And so I think supportwould be the absolute number one
(20:12):
thing in order to come back, youknow, from the grief and to be
able to live and live fullyhope, just hope that that you
can actually learn to integratethis and learn to live with this
and be able to move forward. Youknow, I know a lot of people who
have gone through loss and theylose that hope, and have lost it
(20:34):
permanently. Yes, yeah. I thinkthat's where that's where the
decline happens. Yeah. You knowwhat I mean? Yeah. The physical,
the health and mental. Andthere's there, it's sort of a
decline that, that doesn'treally end for people when
they've lost that hope, Link.
Yeah. And I think I think thelast one is just like that, kind
(20:56):
of along the same lines, butlike, an inner strength. And
that could be, you know, somepeople talk about a higher power
in some people talking aboutjust within themselves, but
something that kind of pulls youup and pulls you forward.
Michelle (21:10):
So support and hope I could not agree more. There's
this quote, I've heard so manytimes, man can live about 40
days without food, about threedays without water, about eight
minutes without air, but onlyfor one second without hope. And
I love that because I believehaving faith and hope are so
(21:31):
important when we're grieving.
So do you believe that havingfaith in God is a key component
to overcoming the devastation ofloss? And how have you seen that
lived out in the lives of yourclients? Or, or even yourself
with the loss of your sister?
Nesreen (21:47):
Well, you know, I have so many different, I have so
many different people who I workwith, who move away from
religion or move away from theirface while they're grieving. You
know, they get angry at God, Imyself, also got angry, you
know, very angry at God. And Iwas like, how, how can this
happen? How could you let thishappen? You know, and so I don't
(22:10):
know that sake is is arequirement, right to heal. But
I, I do know, a lot of peoplewho live also found so much
comfort in their faith in theirin their traditions. You know, I
know a lot of different I know,each religion has its own sort
of tradition in terms of what todo when somebody passes away,
(22:31):
how to bury them, when to burythem, the process of grieving
and mourning, you know, and Ilove the fact that I think each
major phase has some kind ofcoming together. Right? There's
rituals or traditions, there'sthings that you do, because we
need, like, we need thatsupport, right? We need that
community, we shouldn't betrying to do this alone. And so
(22:52):
I love the fact that, you know,pretty much every every face
that I know about has someversion of coming together and
mourning together, you know,celebrating and honoring that
person. And I think that is sovital. You know, and I think
it's so beautiful. And the factthat so many cultures will will
have some kind of tradition, inorder to honor that last person,
(23:16):
I think is is wonderful, youknow, but I don't know that.
Faith is a is a necessarycomponent. But I mean, it
certainly has helped so so manypeople I know. Yeah. And
Michelle (23:28):
when we talked before I told you that as a Christian,
that my faith was vital to notonly helping me heal, but also
to provide that hope you talkabout. There's actually a
scripture in the bible in FirstThessalonians chapter four,
verse 13, where the apostle Paulis telling people not to grieve
(23:48):
as those who have no hope. Andhe was referring to the hope of
heaven. And I believe that Iwill see my son Shawn again one
day. And that greatly enabled myability to heal. And with regard
to what you said about beingangry at God, boy, I think
almost everybody who I'veinterviewed, that's lost,
someone has gone through that.
And I always say that whensomething like this happens that
(24:12):
we either run to God or we runaway from God, and thankfully
for me, that's that's where myfaith came in. So I'm glad to
hear that many of your clientshave embraced their faith
because I think that does help.
So the anniversary of yoursister's passing is December 21.
And you said before thatChristmas and New Year's is
(24:33):
really difficult for you. Whatwould you say to someone who's
stuck in their grief right nowespecially in this holiday
season?
Nesreen (24:42):
I think I don't know if everybody would agree with me,
but I have a I gave strongadvice about canceling the
holidays if you need to. Justcancel it you know If you need
to stay in bed, if you need tostay at home, if you need to
(25:03):
pretend they're on happening,that's okay. Right? If you, you
know, need to not see yourfamily or, or not go to that
holiday party or say no to theoffice event or whatever, it is
totally fine. You're totallyfine. You know, I think there's
so much pressure to be jolly tobe in the Christmas season, you
(25:23):
know, to enjoy and celebrate asif it's a good time for
everyone. You know, and I cantell you the first at least five
years, I couldn't, I couldn't behappy during the holidays. I
absolutely couldn't, you know,it just it was not happening.
And I didn't feel likepretending, you know, when I'm
eating, why would I pretend thatI was happy? You know, when it
(25:47):
was right around the time thatmy sister died? How could I
pretend you know, and it feltlike it was an insult and
dishonouring of her to try topretend Yeah, you know. And so,
I I'm very strongly, you know, Iknow a lot of people like you
don't just go out and try to behappy, you know, try to enjoy,
put on a good front, you mightenjoy yourself. And listen, if
(26:07):
that's what you want to do, goabsolutely enjoy, you know, as
much as you can enjoy. But Ialso have a very strong
recommendation that it's totallyfine to just avoid him, avoid
the holidays, let everybodyknow, you know, be very clear
about what's going on for you bevery clear about what within
reason, right? You don't have totell them exactly what's
happening. But, you know, I'mgrieving right now, this is not
(26:30):
a good time of the year for me,I'm not going to be around very
much, I really appreciate yourinvitations, or you know that
you're having this event, andI'm so sorry, I can't be there,
I would show the best and leaveit at that, you know, but be
very clear, set your boundaries,set your boundaries with your
people, you know, the people inyour life, let them know, if
you're going to be able to makeit or not, and why and how many
times you will have to have thatconversation, you know, having
(26:52):
them try to convince you just belike, This is the last time
we're talking about this, youknow, and, and, you know, set
those boundaries, set thoseexpectations and do what you
need to take care of yourself.
Yeah, and I, I certainly don'twant to advocate isolating and
avoiding and, you know, notgetting support and all that
kind of stuff. But that isdifferent than No, I'm not going
to be able to celebrate thisduring this day or during this
(27:16):
time of year. And it is hardbecause it means putting
yourself first. And a lot ofpeople struggle with that, you
know, myself included, but I I'ma big advocate of doing what you
need to do.
Michelle (27:31):
So on a I guess a very personal level, how are you
feeling this year aboutcelebrating another holiday
without Naveen?
Nesreen (27:45):
You know, it's been this will be the ninth year. And
in some ways, it still feelslike it's the it's fresh, you
know, we're actually taking mydaughter on the 21st we're
traveling down to to Virginia tostay with my dad, and then my
sister and my other sistersgonna come later that afternoon.
So I'm really glad that we'll beable to gather, you know, and
(28:07):
gather on that day specifically.
But I'm also I have a lot ofanticipatory grief because my
mother has been battlingAlzheimer's for a number of
years. And the nursing facilitybasically told us to prepare
ourselves. So you know, we don'tI don't know if she'll pass
before the end of the year. Insome ways. I really hope not. In
some ways, I do hope because Idon't want her to suffer. But I
(28:31):
yeah, I anticipate if she does,and it'll make the holidays even
harder. So there's, there's alot of mixed emotions going on
right now. And I'm missing mysister and then also missing my
mom.
Michelle (28:46):
Well, I'm very sorry to hear about your mom. And I'm
also glad that she'll be able togather as a family this year,
although I imagine it will stillinvolve a mix of joy and
sadness. But I think as we gothrough these hard things, we
learn more, and probably a lotof lessons that you'll be able
to pass on to your clients. ButI do believe it makes us
(29:08):
stronger and gives us wisdomthat we can pass along. So on
that note, can you share with usthe big life lessons that you
learned, following the loss ofyour sister, that might help
someone who just lost theirsister, or someone else dear to
them at this difficult time?
Nesreen (29:27):
Three things come to mind. One, how you feel today is
not how you'll always feel. Youknow, it's so easy for us to
kind of get stuck and immersedin our grief. And we kind of
assume that it will never end.
But we evolve and change everyday. And so it was our grief.
You know and so how your grieffeels today will not be how it
(29:48):
feels next week, next month,next year, and so on. So just
have, have hope have faith thatit will evolve and change just
as you will. The second oneperhaps the one that took me the
least amount of time to realize,but the most amount of time to
actually achieve is to live,like really live. You know, live
a life that you care about livea life that you feel satisfied
(30:12):
with live a life that you know,leaves a legacy, you know, for
your loved ones and makes youproud. You know, make bold
choices, don't be scared of whatpeople say or think and, you
know, live your life and live itto the most I think is one of
the most important things we cando, especially after a loss, you
(30:34):
know, is to find that courage toreally live. And the last is to
is to really love, love thepeople in your life. Tell them
how much you love them, tellthem why tell them with the
memories of little moments thatthey may not even remember, you
know, things that touch you,that means so much to you know,
(30:54):
show them the gratitude and thelove and the appreciation that
you have for them as much as youcan as often as you can, you
know, we never know what's goingto happen. We never know when
someone will be taken from us.
And you know, one of thebiggest, the worst things to
live with is that guilt andregret of not having said, I
(31:16):
love you, or I appreciate you,or I miss you, you know, I want
you in my life I'm so gratefulto have in my life, whatever it
is, right? So express how youreally feel to the people that
mean the most to you. Yeah,
Michelle (31:28):
good advice. I've heard so many people say that,
you know, looking back that someof the biggest moments were
really just the smallest things.
And so it's so important just toappreciate all of it I agree. On
the stream, Where can thoselistening go to find more about
the work you do? And if theywant to get in touch with you?
How can they do that.
Nesreen (31:51):
So the best way is just go to my website,
harborlightcoaching.com And isthe form on there. There's also
a grief assessment. So ifsomebody's confused about
coaching and how it differs fromtherapy or counseling, and they
want to get a better sense ofwhere they are, they can take
the assessment totally free. Andyou know that that'll give them
basically their results ofletting them know, okay, you're
(32:12):
really right for, for counselorat this point, or you should
actually see a therapist rightnow, or coaching is a good
option for you, you know, sojust to help kind of clarify,
because I know there's a lot ofconfusion about the different
modalities, and especially whenyou're grieving, it's so hard to
reach out, it's so hard to findthe support, you know, and so I
want to make it easy for peopleso that a lot of free resources
(32:32):
on my website. And I'd saythat's the best place to go.
Michelle (32:35):
That's wonderful. And I'll put a link in the show
notes to make it easy to find.
Well Nesreen I just want tothank you so much for coming on
the show today and sharing yourpersonal story of loss. Your
journey to becoming a griefcoach, and some of the valuable
lessons you learned about griefand loss. It was great having
you here.
Nesreen (32:54):
Thank you, Michelle, thank you very much for having
me.
Michelle (32:57):
You're welcome.
So for those of you listening,if you were able to identify
with some of the emotions,Nazarene shared following the
loss of her sister, know thatyou're not alone, and that these
feelings are normal and naturalto experience. And if you feel
stuck in your grief, and arehaving difficulty moving on with
(33:18):
your life due to the sadness anddespair, I get it. I truly do. I
was at that place at one pointtoo. But the key elements
Nazarene spoke of support andhope really can make a
difference. Please reach out toa counselor, therapist, grief
(33:39):
coach, or pastor for support.
qualified people are out thereand they want to help. And don't
forget to embrace hope. As we'vetalked about so many times on
the podcast. There's purpose inthe pain you're going through as
hard as it is right now. You cansurvive with support and hope.
And one day you'll be able tohelp others with the lessons you
(34:02):
learned in your loss. Thanks forlistening
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