February 3, 2023 • 28 mins
When her daughter passed away suddenly from a pulmonary embolism, Carole knew everything would change in her life from that day forward. Listen in as this bereaved mom shares her story of deep grief, physical adversity and emotional pain that ultimately brought her to a place of new faith and a hunger for God like never before.
https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/thirty-carole-j-sluski/1142918942
https://www.amazon.com/Thirty-Mothers-Spiritual-Journey-Losing/dp/B0BQ9JB1QY
#eternalperspective #hungerforGod #lossofmydaughter #bloodclot
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Michelle (00:10):
Well, hey everybody, and welcome back to Qualified,
the place where incrediblepeople share their stories of
overcoming great adversity andloss to inspire you and give you
hope. I'm Michelle Heaton. As aparent who's lost a child, I
think I can safely say it's notsomething that you ever really
(00:31):
recover from. Every bereavedparent I've ever met, has had
something unique and valuable toshare with me about their grief.
And all of them have concludedthat the pain never completely
goes away. But it does soften asthe years pass. And as you know,
on this show, I want tointroduce you to people who have
(00:52):
learned lessons in their loss,and who want to pass them along
to you. They found purpose intheir pain, and they're
passionate about helping otherswith their experience. Well, my
guest today is one of thosepeople. She too is a mom who's
lost a child, a daughter at theyoung age of only 24. And since
(01:13):
that time, she's travelled anemotional road, but one filled
with a newfound knowledge andfaith. And 30 years after the
passing of her daughter, shedecided to write a book that
captures her story. And inaddition to being an author,
she's a mother, a grandmother,and an accomplished
(01:35):
entrepreneur, in business andcreative arts. Her name is Carol
Sluski, and it's my pleasure tohave her as my guest today on
the show. Welcome to QualifiedCarole.
Carole (01:48):
Oh, thanks so much for having me on. Michelle. I'm
greatly honored.
Michelle (01:53):
Thank you. Me, too.
Carole, your daughter, Paulapassed away suddenly at the age
of 24. Can you tell us whathappened on March 19 1992, and
your immediate reaction and
Carole (02:08):
the morning of March 19.
What I did not know was that myresponse?
daughter was in an emergencyroom at a hospital literally
dying. And there was no way thatthey could contact me at that
(02:28):
time because no one there at thehospital had my phone number
call ahead. But she never calledme before she went to the
emergency room. And I didn'tfind out until about 7am March
19. I got a phone call from thedoctor from the emergency room.
I became totally in shock. I hadeven trouble relating to him. I
(02:55):
couldn't I couldn't ask himquestions. It was like nothing
would come out of my mouth. Ijust listened. And he kept on
going on and on about mydaughter's condition that she
had a pulmonary embolism, ablood clot to the lungs. That
stopped her heart. And theyoperated on her. They took as
(03:19):
much of the blood clots out andthey put her on life support.
There was so much at that time,I didn't know. And I didn't even
know what to ask because I wastotally in a place that I had
never been before in my entirelife. I got off the phone I
called my husband Denny. Andthen when I was in the car going
(03:44):
there, it was like I was crazyinside with emotion and I just
wanted him to hurry. Hurry,hurry, hurry and get there. And
he wasn't going faster though.
That's what I remembered that hewasn't going fast enough. And I
continued on, you know, gettingto the hospital seen her. It was
(04:11):
a big room and there were likefour or five beds in there and
they had like a tent around eachbed. The nurse took me to hers,
and she opened up the curtainsand there was my daughter with
all this equipment on her. Andwhen I approached her, I looked
at her I could barely see herblue eyes. She was totally Her
(04:32):
eyes were dilated. Her chest wasjust going up and down with the
equipment. And her chest wasgoing in and out in and out.
I'll tell you something,Michelle. I really truly felt
that my daughter wasn't there.
She wasn't alive. I did not feelher. When I got next to her. She
(04:55):
was warm. I took her hands and Ikissed them. Her body was warm.
I looked at her eyes, there wasjust no life. But that's my
conclusion. It's what I believe.
What happened is that I believemy daughter was already dead.
Yeah, she was gone. She wasn'tcoming back.
Michelle (05:14):
Yeah, I'm so sorry, Carole. And that must have been
so difficult. Seeing Paula inthat condition. sudden loss like
we've both experienced can be sotraumatic. It can feel like our
lives just come to an abruptstop at that moment. But the
reality for you was that yourlife was actually supposed to be
(05:35):
just beginning in some ways. Youhad wedding plans and a matter
of weeks. So now what shouldhave been a very happy time in
your life was now overshadowedby the deepest sorrow you've
ever known? What did you decideto do? And how were you able to
function emotionally? Especiallyin your relationship with your
new husband?
Carole (05:57):
We continued on with those plans. We didn't change
them when got married. But I'lltell you, as far as happiness
goes, I remember flying on theairplane, looking at the clouds,
wondering could Paula be therein the clouds? Yeah. Is she is
she around me? There was nohappiness, I found my life at
(06:20):
that moment bittersweet. Thebitter was my daughter's death.
The sweet was that I love thisgood man. And I was married,
just got married to him. And wewere, you know, going to make
our life together. And I had noidea. Anything beyond that how
(06:41):
things were going to work outwith him and me. Because
something very, very bighappened to me. And how could
anyone ever understand how youfeel? If they haven't gone
through it? I never would haveguessed in a million years. What
(07:04):
that pain felt like,
Michelle (07:06):
yeah, I read in your book about how sensitive and
understanding your husband Dennywas at that time. So that had to
be a blessing for sure. But Ialso thought it was interesting
when you wrote, you knew that ifyou ever wanted to see your
daughter again, that you toomust go to heaven when you die.
And then you said that youviewed this as one of your
(07:27):
missions for the rest of yourlife on earth. What does that
look like in your life today?
Carole (07:34):
My daughter's death changed me. And it's not that I
was a bad person or anything. Iwasn't bad. I was a good mother
and a good person and a goodlife. But it changed me to the
point where I really startedthinking of God, in a different
way, I became much, much closerto the Lord. But I couldn't
(07:55):
listen to regular music anymore.
So I listened to all spiritualmusic. It's all spiritual. I
listened to that for a longtime, couldn't listen to the
music of the day. You don't wantto pop music and all the popular
songs. I couldn't listen to anyof that. And you know, just same
thing with movies and that likemy husband like to go to the
(08:18):
movies. And this is the firstyear, second year third year
that we were married. It took mea while to be able to go to the
shelf to the theater and watchmovies. I would go if it was
spiritual. I had no trouble. Itwas like I was hungry. I think
that's what the word I have tostress is that I was hungry for
faith. I was hungry for God. Iwas hungry for Jesus. And I knew
(08:42):
Yes, I did Michelle, I knew thatif I was to see my daughter ever
again. I had to go to heaven.
Michelle (08:55):
I totally get that.
After Sean died, I had aneternal perspective. I wanted to
know all about heaven. And I wasalso hungry to get my hands on
literature, movies, and musicthat was deeply spiritual. And I
just absorbed it and took it allin. Still do. You said you met a
woman Marilyn on a plane righton your way home from a visit to
(09:21):
see your other daughter Ellen.
And that you to connect it on aspiritual level and you develop
the lasting friendship with her.
And after Paula died, you saidyou found it easier to talk to
Marilyn than to your own mother.
You said your mom didn'tunderstand the depth of your
emotion. What were some of thecharacteristics that Marilyn
(09:44):
possessed that made her such anempathetic listener and friend?
Carole (09:49):
the first thing that comes to my mind, Michelle is
that Marilyn listened to me. Shebefriended me out she approached
me she was my neighbor rightnext door to the past. center
next to me. So I was required.
And I started crying a littlebit, because I was leaving my my
oldest daughter behind. She wasin Texas, and I was going back
(10:10):
to Illinois, and I was missingher already. And so I started
kind of crying. And she asked mewhat was wrong and I poured my
heart out to her, she listenedto me. That's what was the
difference. She listened to me.
And she didn't judge me. And Igot the feeling from my mom,
(10:34):
that she felt that I should havebeen at the hospital when Paula
died. And so there might havebeen some guilt that my mom put
me. And I didn't want to gothere. I couldn't go there
because I knew destroy me. Yeah,I wasn't at the hospital when
(10:55):
she died when she had thatembolism. And I paid my own
price for that on my own guilt.
I did not need my mom to kind ofput that out there for me. Yeah,
it took me years to even realizethat's what was going on, to
even admit him to see it. Andthat was also part of my
(11:17):
healing.
Michelle (11:20):
Well, I'm glad you had Marilyn at that critical time in
your life when your mom couldn'tbe present for you. I also had a
Marilyn like that. Thank God. Soyou're grieving the loss of your
daughter, you're starting a newlife with a new husband. And
you're also experiencing sort ofa spiritual awakening because of
it all? How would you describeyour grief process in those
(11:42):
days, given everything that wasgoing on in your life?
Carole (11:47):
There's just absolutely so many steps I had to take. In
order to get better. It was notlike a rush from one place to
another, it was step by step bystep. And then I would go
backwards, I thought I wasgetting better. And then I would
go backwards, and break downagain and cry. You know, one mom
(12:10):
said to me that she lost herson, and she said, Carole, it's
like sometimes, like the oceanis coming up with a big, huge
wave. And I see it comingtowards me this big wave. And
I'm so afraid that I don't wantit to hit me. But it's common
for me. She said, that's what itfeels like when I think of my
(12:32):
son be done. And you know what?
Yes, I I could understand Irelated to that. It's like a
wash. It's like, it's sopowerful, this feeling that it's
for real. That's what thatfeeling is really realize the
that they are gone. And that'swhat I started to realize that
she was really gone. It doesn'thappen overnight. That's part of
(12:57):
the acceptance is that you know,and if you don't have God in
your life, I felt I What is thepurpose of living?
Michelle (13:11):
Well, I'm glad that you did have God to hold you up
and strengthen you at that time,because you had all those really
hard milestones to walk throughback then. One of them being
Paula's wake, or viewing. Andthen the funeral following that.
And you said you chose to seeher body one last time in the
casket. And that you talked toher and you told her how much
(13:34):
you loved her. What was thatexperience like for you?
Carole (13:40):
I knelt down to say my last goodbyes to her before they
took her into the room andsealed the coffin. And they left
me alone with her. Everybodyleft the room. There was Paula
and it was me. I felt as thoughthis veil, who was it was like a
(14:01):
veil of clouds that just coveredme and covered her. I was
kneeling at her casket. And I Ijust felt I couldn't say goodbye
to her. So I knew I had to. Ihad to see her and get to
heaven. And I just knew I had todo whatever I had to do to be be
(14:24):
the person I needed to be. If Ididn't know how spiritual I
needed to be. I was going tofind out. I was going to find
out.
Michelle (14:35):
Yeah, in those early days, you had no idea what was
in store for you. But by now youknow how this experience would
make you a completely differentperson. But your path to that
new place had some twists andturns of its own. And in your
book, you talk about thephysical and mental challenges
you faced. And you said I knew Iwas on a lifelong journey of
healing and that I would belying if I said I wasn't scared
(14:59):
of losing In my mind are havinga heart attack or both. Tell us
about that.
Carole (15:06):
Well, I was born with a problem with my one knee. So I
had to be careful as you know, Iwas in high school and
everything in sports when that Ididn't damage my knee. Paula
died. March 19. In June, I hadsurgery, I had a knee
replacement, what happened fromMarch to June was amazing.
(15:31):
Without me injuring my knee, myknee became so arthritic, it
swelled up like a balloon. And Ihad to go to a specialist. And
they did a knee replacement.
That's how bad my knee became.
Now, how could that happen fromfor two months and two months
for I was walking fine. To Icouldn't walk. And that's when I
(15:56):
realized that I welcomed Nowthis may sound, you know,
unbelievable, to other peoplethat I would want to have
surgery. But let me tell yousomething, I remember the
feeling I thought is that Iwanted the physical pain because
I was so sick of the mentalpain. It was like I wanted a
(16:20):
break from the mental thing. Sothat was my first operation. One
thing after another year, aftera year, everyone thought I was
doing fine. I was recovering, Iwas doing great. But somewhere
inside of me, my body wasbreaking down. And the number of
(16:40):
operations that I had, it waslike you're up on top of the
ladder. And that one step breaksbelow you. And then another and
another and another. My spinewas like that I have for back
operations, and wound up havingtwo knee replacements and a
revision, however, still on theroad of recovery, still on the
(17:04):
road of getting stronger. I'm onthe road of accepting among the
road of accepting my problems,my illnesses. And how do I
handle that I prayed on it. Iprayed to God to help me through
this. I prayed. And I prayed oneverything. I became spiritual,
because it helped me and itshowed me a way to become happy
(17:26):
again. And that's what I stressis you cannot give up. You have
to keep going. And I'm sothankful I had a father who
taught me when I was a littlegirl, he used to say you don't
have three daughters and hisgirls. He said, All I can tell
you is that if you don't believein God, he said, it's not going
(17:51):
to be an easy road, life is notgoing to be good or easy for
you. He said, Trust in the Lord.
He said don't take a risk. Putyour faith in that there is a
God and learn how to talk prayto Him, and learn how to be good
to him.
Michelle (18:10):
Yeah, sounds like a wise man. Carole. In chapter
three, you actually go intodetail about your faith and you
kind of examine everything andyou said, if the death of my
Paula brings one person to God,I've been a successful mother to
my daughter here on earth. Whydo you equate that choice with
(18:35):
being a good mother?
Carole (18:38):
Because I believe that my daughter has purpose on this
earth, since she did not livethe full long life. And she
almost did die twice before. Shehad her last rites when she was
20 months old. So therefore, Icame to my own conclusion that
(19:01):
Paula was born to show me how tolive a better life. Show me
about God.
Michelle (19:11):
You know, there's a scripture in the bible in First
Timothy chapter two. And it saysthat women will be saved through
childbearing. And those wordsmean so many different things to
different people. But aninterpretation I read recently
says, from the lessons learnedthrough the trials of
childbearing, women can developqualities that teach them about
(19:35):
love, trust and service. And Iknow that was true with me my
son's birth and short 17 yearlife taught me things about love
and trust and serving that Icouldn't have learned any other
way. Our children have much toteach us for sure.
Carole (19:55):
I totally agree with you. All I know, Michelle is
that she believed in God, mydaughter was very spiritual. And
she left that with me. She putGod on my plate. And I knew I
had no doubt in my mind that shewas going to heaven. I know
(20:17):
Paula was around, spirituallyaround me, many years after she
died, I would get just a twingeof feeling of her. In that that
is like the same feeling I getwhen the Holy Spirit comes into
me and I, I get this good,wonderful, holy feeling of
comfort, joy, and happiness andmotivation. All of a sudden,
(20:41):
artists fill up withmotivations, like I painted a
painting. And for the artistsout there, you know, especially
if you do watercolors, you paintthe water, paper is all wet. So
what do you do you go to bedthat night, and the first thing
you do is you run into your artroom to look at that painting
because it's dried. And then yousee the magnificent work that
(21:05):
you did. After the waterevaporates off. Now you have
painted left on paper. That's,that's the way I feel about
life.
Michelle (21:19):
That's a beautiful illustration, Carole, and I'm
sure there will be listenersthat can really resonate with
that artistic comparison. SoCarole, you have shared so much
with us today. And yourexperiences and words have been
so deep and meaningful to me.
You told us that your hunger forGod, and all things spiritual
(21:40):
sustained you during this time,and that you continue to live a
life of strong faith for yourcontinuous healing and future
hope. You said you gained a newappreciation for relationships
with those who exhibit empathy,love, and kindness. And you
strive to also be that friendfor others, you recognize that
(22:03):
grief can come in waves, andthat when the emotions come, you
can embrace them and still moveforward. You shared about the
faith of your father, and howhis example was key to your own
love for God. You talked aboutyour own physical adversity, and
helped us to understand theimpact of grief in our minds and
(22:25):
bodies. You realize that whileraising children would seem to
be a teaching role for us asparents, that our children also
play a role in our own educationabout the more important and
greater things in this life.
Carole, what other lessons haveyou learned from the loss of
(22:45):
your daughte Can you share withsomeone listening right now who
needs help?
Carole (22:50):
Well, I really again, want to thank you for letting me
have this opportunity. BecauseI'm going to tell your audience
this to moms and dads. Don'tgive up. Be strong. Learn how to
be strong. If you're not strong,learn, pray for it. Ask God to
help you get get strong. Becauseif you get strong, everything
(23:15):
else around you is going to bebetter. Don't forget, you may
have more children, you couldhave a family right now to take
care of you've got to look inand see what you need to do this
positive, not just for yourself,but for the other people around
you. And that is going to makeyou happy. That's a painting
(23:39):
you're doing. Because you'regoing to look at it down the
road years later, you're gonnalook at your what you've done
what you've created. And thatcould be that could be your
children growing up the otherones left. Or there could be
helping other people you look attheir lives, how they turned out
and you say, Well, I was part ofthat. I was part of helping
(24:01):
them. And I think that's why I'mhere. I want to help. I want to
help and give you face give youhope. I can give you faith to
kind of find your own faith, butI can give you as a whole that
there's faith. If you pray.
Yeah, life is worth living. Yes,I am happy and I'm happy to be
here alive. Being able to tellthe moms and dads or anyone that
(24:25):
has lost anyone but really loveand your hearts broken. Trust
me. Broken Hearts are for real.
We may never get them back asthey once were but they they're
amendable you can manage themand to my heart's put back
(24:48):
together. And I have so much tobe thankful for right now for
today. Just living in and beingable to share Air and be good
people. Just people that ingeneral that I just need, you
know, I really do love life. AndI appreciate life, I really do.
(25:14):
I just appreciate it. I thankGod that I think that I believe,
I believe in him.
Michelle (25:21):
I'm so happy that your heart is mended back together.
And that you're not only findingyour own joy in life again, but
that you're helping other peoplefind theirs. Is there anything
else you want to add that I mayhave failed to ask you?
Carole (25:36):
There's probably one thing that's so important that,
that. And that's dealing withyour immediate family, you know,
brothers and sisters, becausewhat you really want, you want
them to really understand thatyou need their support. It's
like, sometimes they can't giveit to you, because they don't
(25:57):
know what you're really goingthrough. And that's why, you
know, for example, Michelle,that's why what you're doing is
important, because you'reeducating other people, not just
parents, but also people thatlisten to your podcast that, you
know, just paying the or talkand about it's real. It's real.
(26:20):
So for everybody else, be gentlewith us. No, we're not going to
get over losing our child. I'mgoing to love her, miss her
forever, until I'm with her inheaven.
Michelle (26:36):
Yeah, it can be hard for some family members. So
thanks again for those words ofwisdom. So with that said, I
want listeners to know that ifyou want to get a copy of
Carol's book called 30, I'llpost a link in the show notes to
make it easy to find. Carol,thanks so much for coming on the
show today, and for sharingPaula's story, and your healing
(26:58):
transformation.
Carole (27:00):
Oh, thanks for having me and I, I probably have been able
to even heal a little bit moretoday.
Michelle (27:08):
That's very good. I'm happy to hear that. Thank you.
So for those of you listening, Ihope you found some pearls of
wisdom in Carole's story. In ourdeepest moments of sorrow and
grief. We can also realize someof the most profound lessons
about love and life. Caroleleaned into the pain and chose
(27:33):
to spend a final few momentswith Paula and experienced a
spiritual awakening that wouldchange her life going forward.
And she concluded that herdaughter's purpose in her short
life was to lead her to God. Andshe would take that leading and
run with it. That's my hope foryou today that you would be
(27:55):
moved to embrace faith in yourloss, that you would take the
first step to developing arelationship with God today and
reach out to Him in prayer. Andas your faith builds, I pray
that those waves of grief thatCarole talked about will be
fewer and further apart for you.
Please don't hesitate to reachout if you want to chat or drop
(28:16):
me a note in the comments. Mycontact information is there on
my website atcallmequalified.com Hang in
there my friend. Thanks forlistening
Well, hey everybody, and welcome back to Qualified,
the place where incrediblepeople share their stories of
overcoming great adversity andloss to inspire you and give you
hope. I'm Michelle Heaton. As aparent who's lost a child, I
think I can safely say it's notsomething that you ever really
(00:31):
recover from. Every bereavedparent I've ever met, has had
something unique and valuable toshare with me about their grief.
And all of them have concludedthat the pain never completely
goes away. But it does soften asthe years pass. And as you know,
on this show, I want tointroduce you to people who have
(00:52):
learned lessons in their loss,and who want to pass them along
to you. They found purpose intheir pain, and they're
passionate about helping otherswith their experience. Well, my
guest today is one of thosepeople. She too is a mom who's
lost a child, a daughter at theyoung age of only 24. And since
(01:13):
that time, she's travelled anemotional road, but one filled
with a newfound knowledge andfaith. And 30 years after the
passing of her daughter, shedecided to write a book that
captures her story. And inaddition to being an author,
she's a mother, a grandmother,and an accomplished
(01:35):
entrepreneur, in business andcreative arts. Her name is Carol
Sluski, and it's my pleasure tohave her as my guest today on
the show. Welcome to QualifiedCarole.
Carole (01:48):
Oh, thanks so much for having me on. Michelle. I'm
greatly honored.
Michelle (01:53):
Thank you. Me, too.
Carole, your daughter, Paulapassed away suddenly at the age
of 24. Can you tell us whathappened on March 19 1992, and
your immediate reaction and
Carole (02:08):
the morning of March 19.
What I did not know was that myresponse?
daughter was in an emergencyroom at a hospital literally
dying. And there was no way thatthey could contact me at that
(02:28):
time because no one there at thehospital had my phone number
call ahead. But she never calledme before she went to the
emergency room. And I didn'tfind out until about 7am March
19. I got a phone call from thedoctor from the emergency room.
I became totally in shock. I hadeven trouble relating to him. I
(02:55):
couldn't I couldn't ask himquestions. It was like nothing
would come out of my mouth. Ijust listened. And he kept on
going on and on about mydaughter's condition that she
had a pulmonary embolism, ablood clot to the lungs. That
stopped her heart. And theyoperated on her. They took as
(03:19):
much of the blood clots out andthey put her on life support.
There was so much at that time,I didn't know. And I didn't even
know what to ask because I wastotally in a place that I had
never been before in my entirelife. I got off the phone I
called my husband Denny. Andthen when I was in the car going
(03:44):
there, it was like I was crazyinside with emotion and I just
wanted him to hurry. Hurry,hurry, hurry and get there. And
he wasn't going faster though.
That's what I remembered that hewasn't going fast enough. And I
continued on, you know, gettingto the hospital seen her. It was
(04:11):
a big room and there were likefour or five beds in there and
they had like a tent around eachbed. The nurse took me to hers,
and she opened up the curtainsand there was my daughter with
all this equipment on her. Andwhen I approached her, I looked
at her I could barely see herblue eyes. She was totally Her
(04:32):
eyes were dilated. Her chest wasjust going up and down with the
equipment. And her chest wasgoing in and out in and out.
I'll tell you something,Michelle. I really truly felt
that my daughter wasn't there.
She wasn't alive. I did not feelher. When I got next to her. She
(04:55):
was warm. I took her hands and Ikissed them. Her body was warm.
I looked at her eyes, there wasjust no life. But that's my
conclusion. It's what I believe.
What happened is that I believemy daughter was already dead.
Yeah, she was gone. She wasn'tcoming back.
Michelle (05:14):
Yeah, I'm so sorry, Carole. And that must have been
so difficult. Seeing Paula inthat condition. sudden loss like
we've both experienced can be sotraumatic. It can feel like our
lives just come to an abruptstop at that moment. But the
reality for you was that yourlife was actually supposed to be
(05:35):
just beginning in some ways. Youhad wedding plans and a matter
of weeks. So now what shouldhave been a very happy time in
your life was now overshadowedby the deepest sorrow you've
ever known? What did you decideto do? And how were you able to
function emotionally? Especiallyin your relationship with your
new husband?
Carole (05:57):
We continued on with those plans. We didn't change
them when got married. But I'lltell you, as far as happiness
goes, I remember flying on theairplane, looking at the clouds,
wondering could Paula be therein the clouds? Yeah. Is she is
she around me? There was nohappiness, I found my life at
(06:20):
that moment bittersweet. Thebitter was my daughter's death.
The sweet was that I love thisgood man. And I was married,
just got married to him. And wewere, you know, going to make
our life together. And I had noidea. Anything beyond that how
(06:41):
things were going to work outwith him and me. Because
something very, very bighappened to me. And how could
anyone ever understand how youfeel? If they haven't gone
through it? I never would haveguessed in a million years. What
(07:04):
that pain felt like,
Michelle (07:06):
yeah, I read in your book about how sensitive and
understanding your husband Dennywas at that time. So that had to
be a blessing for sure. But Ialso thought it was interesting
when you wrote, you knew that ifyou ever wanted to see your
daughter again, that you toomust go to heaven when you die.
And then you said that youviewed this as one of your
(07:27):
missions for the rest of yourlife on earth. What does that
look like in your life today?
Carole (07:34):
My daughter's death changed me. And it's not that I
was a bad person or anything. Iwasn't bad. I was a good mother
and a good person and a goodlife. But it changed me to the
point where I really startedthinking of God, in a different
way, I became much, much closerto the Lord. But I couldn't
(07:55):
listen to regular music anymore.
So I listened to all spiritualmusic. It's all spiritual. I
listened to that for a longtime, couldn't listen to the
music of the day. You don't wantto pop music and all the popular
songs. I couldn't listen to anyof that. And you know, just same
thing with movies and that likemy husband like to go to the
(08:18):
movies. And this is the firstyear, second year third year
that we were married. It took mea while to be able to go to the
shelf to the theater and watchmovies. I would go if it was
spiritual. I had no trouble. Itwas like I was hungry. I think
that's what the word I have tostress is that I was hungry for
faith. I was hungry for God. Iwas hungry for Jesus. And I knew
(08:42):
Yes, I did Michelle, I knew thatif I was to see my daughter ever
again. I had to go to heaven.
Michelle (08:55):
I totally get that.
After Sean died, I had aneternal perspective. I wanted to
know all about heaven. And I wasalso hungry to get my hands on
literature, movies, and musicthat was deeply spiritual. And I
just absorbed it and took it allin. Still do. You said you met a
woman Marilyn on a plane righton your way home from a visit to
(09:21):
see your other daughter Ellen.
And that you to connect it on aspiritual level and you develop
the lasting friendship with her.
And after Paula died, you saidyou found it easier to talk to
Marilyn than to your own mother.
You said your mom didn'tunderstand the depth of your
emotion. What were some of thecharacteristics that Marilyn
(09:44):
possessed that made her such anempathetic listener and friend?
Carole (09:49):
the first thing that comes to my mind, Michelle is
that Marilyn listened to me. Shebefriended me out she approached
me she was my neighbor rightnext door to the past. center
next to me. So I was required.
And I started crying a littlebit, because I was leaving my my
oldest daughter behind. She wasin Texas, and I was going back
(10:10):
to Illinois, and I was missingher already. And so I started
kind of crying. And she asked mewhat was wrong and I poured my
heart out to her, she listenedto me. That's what was the
difference. She listened to me.
And she didn't judge me. And Igot the feeling from my mom,
(10:34):
that she felt that I should havebeen at the hospital when Paula
died. And so there might havebeen some guilt that my mom put
me. And I didn't want to gothere. I couldn't go there
because I knew destroy me. Yeah,I wasn't at the hospital when
(10:55):
she died when she had thatembolism. And I paid my own
price for that on my own guilt.
I did not need my mom to kind ofput that out there for me. Yeah,
it took me years to even realizethat's what was going on, to
even admit him to see it. Andthat was also part of my
(11:17):
healing.
Michelle (11:20):
Well, I'm glad you had Marilyn at that critical time in
your life when your mom couldn'tbe present for you. I also had a
Marilyn like that. Thank God. Soyou're grieving the loss of your
daughter, you're starting a newlife with a new husband. And
you're also experiencing sort ofa spiritual awakening because of
it all? How would you describeyour grief process in those
(11:42):
days, given everything that wasgoing on in your life?
Carole (11:47):
There's just absolutely so many steps I had to take. In
order to get better. It was notlike a rush from one place to
another, it was step by step bystep. And then I would go
backwards, I thought I wasgetting better. And then I would
go backwards, and break downagain and cry. You know, one mom
(12:10):
said to me that she lost herson, and she said, Carole, it's
like sometimes, like the oceanis coming up with a big, huge
wave. And I see it comingtowards me this big wave. And
I'm so afraid that I don't wantit to hit me. But it's common
for me. She said, that's what itfeels like when I think of my
(12:32):
son be done. And you know what?
Yes, I I could understand Irelated to that. It's like a
wash. It's like, it's sopowerful, this feeling that it's
for real. That's what thatfeeling is really realize the
that they are gone. And that'swhat I started to realize that
she was really gone. It doesn'thappen overnight. That's part of
(12:57):
the acceptance is that you know,and if you don't have God in
your life, I felt I What is thepurpose of living?
Michelle (13:11):
Well, I'm glad that you did have God to hold you up
and strengthen you at that time,because you had all those really
hard milestones to walk throughback then. One of them being
Paula's wake, or viewing. Andthen the funeral following that.
And you said you chose to seeher body one last time in the
casket. And that you talked toher and you told her how much
(13:34):
you loved her. What was thatexperience like for you?
Carole (13:40):
I knelt down to say my last goodbyes to her before they
took her into the room andsealed the coffin. And they left
me alone with her. Everybodyleft the room. There was Paula
and it was me. I felt as thoughthis veil, who was it was like a
(14:01):
veil of clouds that just coveredme and covered her. I was
kneeling at her casket. And I Ijust felt I couldn't say goodbye
to her. So I knew I had to. Ihad to see her and get to
heaven. And I just knew I had todo whatever I had to do to be be
(14:24):
the person I needed to be. If Ididn't know how spiritual I
needed to be. I was going tofind out. I was going to find
out.
Michelle (14:35):
Yeah, in those early days, you had no idea what was
in store for you. But by now youknow how this experience would
make you a completely differentperson. But your path to that
new place had some twists andturns of its own. And in your
book, you talk about thephysical and mental challenges
you faced. And you said I knew Iwas on a lifelong journey of
healing and that I would belying if I said I wasn't scared
(14:59):
of losing In my mind are havinga heart attack or both. Tell us
about that.
Carole (15:06):
Well, I was born with a problem with my one knee. So I
had to be careful as you know, Iwas in high school and
everything in sports when that Ididn't damage my knee. Paula
died. March 19. In June, I hadsurgery, I had a knee
replacement, what happened fromMarch to June was amazing.
(15:31):
Without me injuring my knee, myknee became so arthritic, it
swelled up like a balloon. And Ihad to go to a specialist. And
they did a knee replacement.
That's how bad my knee became.
Now, how could that happen fromfor two months and two months
for I was walking fine. To Icouldn't walk. And that's when I
(15:56):
realized that I welcomed Nowthis may sound, you know,
unbelievable, to other peoplethat I would want to have
surgery. But let me tell yousomething, I remember the
feeling I thought is that Iwanted the physical pain because
I was so sick of the mentalpain. It was like I wanted a
(16:20):
break from the mental thing. Sothat was my first operation. One
thing after another year, aftera year, everyone thought I was
doing fine. I was recovering, Iwas doing great. But somewhere
inside of me, my body wasbreaking down. And the number of
(16:40):
operations that I had, it waslike you're up on top of the
ladder. And that one step breaksbelow you. And then another and
another and another. My spinewas like that I have for back
operations, and wound up havingtwo knee replacements and a
revision, however, still on theroad of recovery, still on the
(17:04):
road of getting stronger. I'm onthe road of accepting among the
road of accepting my problems,my illnesses. And how do I
handle that I prayed on it. Iprayed to God to help me through
this. I prayed. And I prayed oneverything. I became spiritual,
because it helped me and itshowed me a way to become happy
(17:26):
again. And that's what I stressis you cannot give up. You have
to keep going. And I'm sothankful I had a father who
taught me when I was a littlegirl, he used to say you don't
have three daughters and hisgirls. He said, All I can tell
you is that if you don't believein God, he said, it's not going
(17:51):
to be an easy road, life is notgoing to be good or easy for
you. He said, Trust in the Lord.
He said don't take a risk. Putyour faith in that there is a
God and learn how to talk prayto Him, and learn how to be good
to him.
Michelle (18:10):
Yeah, sounds like a wise man. Carole. In chapter
three, you actually go intodetail about your faith and you
kind of examine everything andyou said, if the death of my
Paula brings one person to God,I've been a successful mother to
my daughter here on earth. Whydo you equate that choice with
(18:35):
being a good mother?
Carole (18:38):
Because I believe that my daughter has purpose on this
earth, since she did not livethe full long life. And she
almost did die twice before. Shehad her last rites when she was
20 months old. So therefore, Icame to my own conclusion that
(19:01):
Paula was born to show me how tolive a better life. Show me
about God.
Michelle (19:11):
You know, there's a scripture in the bible in First
Timothy chapter two. And it saysthat women will be saved through
childbearing. And those wordsmean so many different things to
different people. But aninterpretation I read recently
says, from the lessons learnedthrough the trials of
childbearing, women can developqualities that teach them about
(19:35):
love, trust and service. And Iknow that was true with me my
son's birth and short 17 yearlife taught me things about love
and trust and serving that Icouldn't have learned any other
way. Our children have much toteach us for sure.
Carole (19:55):
I totally agree with you. All I know, Michelle is
that she believed in God, mydaughter was very spiritual. And
she left that with me. She putGod on my plate. And I knew I
had no doubt in my mind that shewas going to heaven. I know
(20:17):
Paula was around, spirituallyaround me, many years after she
died, I would get just a twingeof feeling of her. In that that
is like the same feeling I getwhen the Holy Spirit comes into
me and I, I get this good,wonderful, holy feeling of
comfort, joy, and happiness andmotivation. All of a sudden,
(20:41):
artists fill up withmotivations, like I painted a
painting. And for the artistsout there, you know, especially
if you do watercolors, you paintthe water, paper is all wet. So
what do you do you go to bedthat night, and the first thing
you do is you run into your artroom to look at that painting
because it's dried. And then yousee the magnificent work that
(21:05):
you did. After the waterevaporates off. Now you have
painted left on paper. That's,that's the way I feel about
life.
Michelle (21:19):
That's a beautiful illustration, Carole, and I'm
sure there will be listenersthat can really resonate with
that artistic comparison. SoCarole, you have shared so much
with us today. And yourexperiences and words have been
so deep and meaningful to me.
You told us that your hunger forGod, and all things spiritual
(21:40):
sustained you during this time,and that you continue to live a
life of strong faith for yourcontinuous healing and future
hope. You said you gained a newappreciation for relationships
with those who exhibit empathy,love, and kindness. And you
strive to also be that friendfor others, you recognize that
(22:03):
grief can come in waves, andthat when the emotions come, you
can embrace them and still moveforward. You shared about the
faith of your father, and howhis example was key to your own
love for God. You talked aboutyour own physical adversity, and
helped us to understand theimpact of grief in our minds and
(22:25):
bodies. You realize that whileraising children would seem to
be a teaching role for us asparents, that our children also
play a role in our own educationabout the more important and
greater things in this life.
Carole, what other lessons haveyou learned from the loss of
(22:45):
your daughte Can you share withsomeone listening right now who
needs help?
Carole (22:50):
Well, I really again, want to thank you for letting me
have this opportunity. BecauseI'm going to tell your audience
this to moms and dads. Don'tgive up. Be strong. Learn how to
be strong. If you're not strong,learn, pray for it. Ask God to
help you get get strong. Becauseif you get strong, everything
(23:15):
else around you is going to bebetter. Don't forget, you may
have more children, you couldhave a family right now to take
care of you've got to look inand see what you need to do this
positive, not just for yourself,but for the other people around
you. And that is going to makeyou happy. That's a painting
(23:39):
you're doing. Because you'regoing to look at it down the
road years later, you're gonnalook at your what you've done
what you've created. And thatcould be that could be your
children growing up the otherones left. Or there could be
helping other people you look attheir lives, how they turned out
and you say, Well, I was part ofthat. I was part of helping
(24:01):
them. And I think that's why I'mhere. I want to help. I want to
help and give you face give youhope. I can give you faith to
kind of find your own faith, butI can give you as a whole that
there's faith. If you pray.
Yeah, life is worth living. Yes,I am happy and I'm happy to be
here alive. Being able to tellthe moms and dads or anyone that
(24:25):
has lost anyone but really loveand your hearts broken. Trust
me. Broken Hearts are for real.
We may never get them back asthey once were but they they're
amendable you can manage themand to my heart's put back
(24:48):
together. And I have so much tobe thankful for right now for
today. Just living in and beingable to share Air and be good
people. Just people that ingeneral that I just need, you
know, I really do love life. AndI appreciate life, I really do.
(25:14):
I just appreciate it. I thankGod that I think that I believe,
I believe in him.
Michelle (25:21):
I'm so happy that your heart is mended back together.
And that you're not only findingyour own joy in life again, but
that you're helping other peoplefind theirs. Is there anything
else you want to add that I mayhave failed to ask you?
Carole (25:36):
There's probably one thing that's so important that,
that. And that's dealing withyour immediate family, you know,
brothers and sisters, becausewhat you really want, you want
them to really understand thatyou need their support. It's
like, sometimes they can't giveit to you, because they don't
(25:57):
know what you're really goingthrough. And that's why, you
know, for example, Michelle,that's why what you're doing is
important, because you'reeducating other people, not just
parents, but also people thatlisten to your podcast that, you
know, just paying the or talkand about it's real. It's real.
(26:20):
So for everybody else, be gentlewith us. No, we're not going to
get over losing our child. I'mgoing to love her, miss her
forever, until I'm with her inheaven.
Michelle (26:36):
Yeah, it can be hard for some family members. So
thanks again for those words ofwisdom. So with that said, I
want listeners to know that ifyou want to get a copy of
Carol's book called 30, I'llpost a link in the show notes to
make it easy to find. Carol,thanks so much for coming on the
show today, and for sharingPaula's story, and your healing
(26:58):
transformation.
Carole (27:00):
Oh, thanks for having me and I, I probably have been able
to even heal a little bit moretoday.
Michelle (27:08):
That's very good. I'm happy to hear that. Thank you.
So for those of you listening, Ihope you found some pearls of
wisdom in Carole's story. In ourdeepest moments of sorrow and
grief. We can also realize someof the most profound lessons
about love and life. Caroleleaned into the pain and chose
(27:33):
to spend a final few momentswith Paula and experienced a
spiritual awakening that wouldchange her life going forward.
And she concluded that herdaughter's purpose in her short
life was to lead her to God. Andshe would take that leading and
run with it. That's my hope foryou today that you would be
(27:55):
moved to embrace faith in yourloss, that you would take the
first step to developing arelationship with God today and
reach out to Him in prayer. Andas your faith builds, I pray
that those waves of grief thatCarole talked about will be
fewer and further apart for you.
Please don't hesitate to reachout if you want to chat or drop
(28:16):
me a note in the comments. Mycontact information is there on
my website atcallmequalified.com Hang in
there my friend. Thanks forlistening
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