October 27, 2023 • 39 mins
Ten years after losing her mom to cancer, Ceci was still healing but feeling stronger, restored and more grounded. Then the news came that her father was ill and ultimately died in the hospital during the pandemic. By age 30, she had lost both parents and was struggling with PTSD, suicidal ideation and a variety of somatic issues stemming from her intense grief.
Listen in to this honest and inspirational conversation with Ceci Frost about her trauma, grief journey and the lessons she learned in her loss.
https://thehopecollective.net/?fbclid=IwAR3lVNvcQIKOjeyMYINTWOtMj8Go42hLr-AbqwCQm0CVicMvxwXFbnPeXYE
#parentloss #grief #examingmyfaith #PTSD #somaticissues #mindfulness
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Michelle (00:09):
Well, hey everybody, and welcome back to Qualified,
the place where incrediblepeople share their stories of
overcoming great adversity andloss to inspire you and give you
hope.
I'm Michelle Heaton.
When loss comes early in life,it's hard to know how to manage
the emotions that come, havingno point of reference to draw on
(00:32):
.
And when a young girl loses hermom, her confidant and friend,
the loss can have an impact formany years to come.
Well, my guest today experienceda loss of her mother at an
early age.
She put her life on hold for atime to process her grief and to
examine what was important inher life.
Then she would be forced torevisit her grief upon losing
(00:55):
her father and grandmotherwithin a few close years.
Her story of resilience,healing, discovery and
compassion would be born out ofthese sorrowful events.
But she's developed a newcompassion for helping others
with her experience and todayshe's here to share some of it
with you.
She is a beloved daughter, wifeand associate, marriage and
(01:19):
family therapist, author,photographer, singer, songwriter
and small business owner.
Her name is Ceci Frost and it'smy honor to have her as my
guest on the show today.
Welcome to Qualified, Ceci.
Ceci (01:33):
Frost.
Wow, thank you so much.
Thank you for having me
Michelle (01:40):
Of course.
So let's get into it.
You know I mentioned your momand I know how close you were to
her, of course, and she passedaway in 2009, and she had cancer
.
That came and went and at 18years old, you lost her and her
death had a significant impacton you.
Talk about the feelings youexperienced and how your mom's
(02:02):
passing impacted yourrelationship with your father.
Ceci (02:07):
Yeah, thanks for asking that, and it's so hard to pin
down, like man, so many things.
I was 18.
And losing her felt like losingmy anchor and my compass and,
(02:31):
like you expressed, we werereally close.
She was my best friend, mymirror, my model, you know
everything, and so losing herfelt like the air had been just
sucked out of me, just gone, andat the same time, it made me at
(02:56):
a really young age realize thebrevity of life and how it's.
Life is so uncertain andanything could happen.
No one is exempt and thatimpacted my perspective and
(03:17):
framework and the way Iapproached things, my motivation
and everything.
It more set like a fire underme and was like dang, I need to
live to the fullest.
Like I could die tomorrow.
Yeah, it changed everythingabout my life and me.
My parents got married when Iwas three.
(03:37):
They had both been previouslymarried before, so I was three
with the new dad and my.
He is all I've known as a dad.
My biological dad was not inthe picture and he already had
three kids that were a lot olderthan me and essentially like
late teens and 20s, almost outof the house, and so my parents
(04:01):
got married.
He's like.
I know I have a three year oldagain and so I say this to just
create context of like ourrelationship.
So I grew up that is like mydad, you know, it's all I've
known.
But in my teen years we had areally challenging dynamic where
oftentimes my mom felt in themiddle and so my dad and I
weren't close emotionally whenshe died.
(04:25):
And when she died it was a veryintentional conversation and
decision between him and I tomake it work, because he was my
last parent and I wanted tostill.
I wanted him in my life stillobviously.
So, with very intentionalchoices and conversations, we
(04:48):
restored our relationship and Iam forever grateful because we
became so close, extremely close.
Michelle (04:56):
Well, I'm so happy to hear that you had that
communication with your dad andthat you were able to close that
emotional gap between the twoof you.
That's wonderful.
So can you tell us about whathappened in 2021 in the middle
of COVID when, sadly, hesuddenly passed away?
How would you describe thegrief you felt at this point,
now that you've lost bothparents?
Ceci (05:21):
Yeah, in 2021, I experienced the loss of my
remaining parent and I'mparentless by 30.
And I just remember I keptsaying right after he died was I
have no parents.
I have no parents like.
I have no parents like what?
(05:43):
So just some story is in thespan of four weeks, my dad was
in and out of the hospital aboutthree times during COVID.
You know there are very muchCOVID rules and regulations and
no visitors.
Nurses, doctors everyone is somaxed out, so tired.
(06:04):
They thought my dad hadpneumonia and that's what they
were looking at and they didmultiple tests that compromised
his ability to breathe and hishealth.
And so, over the course of fourweeks, this is all happening
and we're not allowed to visit,we're not allowed to advocate
for him in the moment in hisroom, and it was very, very hard
(06:30):
and difficult.
And then, two days before hedied, suddenly in the middle of
the night, he was diagnosed withlung cancer and thankfully,
because he was in an ICU, wewere allowed to see him.
Like one at a time.
But I was there with him and Iwas with my mom as well when
(06:54):
both of them passed and Idescribed losing both of them
like if I was a boat at sealosing and I had two anchors,
you know, that kept me grounded.
Losing my mom was like cuttingoff one anchor.
Losing my dad was cutting offthe last.
And then I'm just kind offloating and wondering, like in
this new territory that's,that's how it felt.
Michelle (07:19):
Yeah, I can appreciate your description of losing your
anchors.
That's such a good way todescribe loss, that feeling of
floating sort of aimlessly for atime or get that.
And I'm so sorry, Ceci, aboutthe loss of your parents.
So hard.
So you said that you werepresent at the moment when each
(07:40):
of them passed.
That's pretty tough On one handmaybe a blessing, but on the
other pretty traumatic as well.
Do you recall anythingsignificant about those moments
that you want to share with us?
Ceci (07:54):
Yeah, I can absolutely share, and I was diagnosed with
PTSD after my dad died.
I struggled immensely with mydreams and intrusive thoughts
and I witnessed both of theirpassing, which were so different
(08:16):
.
My mom had cancer multipletimes throughout my life.
She was suffering for years onand off and her death was really
slow.
She got to say a ton ofgoodbyes.
She had a rare opportunity ofprocessing her death as much as
(08:37):
you can while you're stillsuffering.
But with that came being awitness to a lot of her pain and
a lot of her suffering, seeingher and hearing her and then
witnessing my dad and it beingsudden, and I witnessed him
(08:59):
being resuscitated like fourtimes.
And you see things and you hearthings that you just can't
ignore.
They just are ingrained in yourmind.
And so I say that to givecontext of my dreams and you can
imagine like where they wentand they were reoccurring and I
(09:23):
would wake up in the morning orin the middle of the night and
my heart racing and it affectedmy sleep and insomnia and I
majorly tired and just reallystruggling with that.
I wouldn't.
Also, at the same time, I say Iwouldn't change.
I wouldn't change the fact thatI'm glad I was there with them.
(09:46):
It was dark and it was painful,but I'm so glad I got to be
there as they transitioned fromearth to heaven and just like be
a witness to their soul.
So, then, that's not foreveryone, because it does come
with a cost, though.
Michelle (10:07):
Yeah well, tell me a little bit more about the PTSD
diagnosis.
What was it that brought you into see a specialist who made
the diagnosis?
Ceci (10:17):
Yeah, I had gone on and off to therapy since my mom died
, which I highly recommend andencourage, and after my dad died
I started going to a traumatherapist.
So she specialized more in whatI had been experiencing and I
(10:44):
was experiencing suicidalideation and I had never gone
through that before After my daddied it was so the pain of
thinking about the fact thatthey won't be here the rest of
my life was so heavy that itmade it.
(11:07):
That is what encouraged me togo in that direction of thoughts
and I simmered on it by myselffor a little bit.
And I say this also tonormalize some things, because
in grief you might often findthat you're like I just I don't
(11:28):
want to, I just kind of justwish I wasn't here and
unfortunately, sadly, that iscommon.
And it got really scary for meto keep to myself.
And finally I ended up tellingmy husband, who I absolutely
trust he's been through so muchwith me on this great journey.
The same day I told him I wasgonna see my close friend was
(11:53):
coming over, who's a socialworker, and I told her as well.
And it was probably one of thescariest things to do was tell
someone where I was at cause itwas really dark and I didn't
want to like freak them out, Ididn't want to get locked up.
(12:13):
But like at the same time I waslike kind of scared of myself
and didn't know like where Iwould go with this.
And then ended up in moretherapy and where we you know,
she tested me and for PTSD andwe did some other things that
(12:35):
were helpful too and they're alittle bit of EMDR and kind of
clinical skills like that.
So that's what really led me togoing into more trauma focused
therapy for myself.
Michelle (12:50):
Yeah, Well, first of all, thank you for your
vulnerability and sharing thoseintimate thoughts, and I believe
you're right.
It's probably very common forpeople to feel that way
initially, right after the lossof a loved one, and I am super
proud of you that you reachedout and talked to your husband
and to your friend and that,with help, you were able to
(13:13):
overcome those feelings.
That was definitely the rightthing to do and a brave thing as
well.
So, sadly, after being poundedby the waves of grief following
the loss of both of your parentsyour grandmother, your mother's
mom also died around that time.
So, as you know, when we faceloss upon loss, it's also
(13:34):
referred to as cumulative griefand it can really weigh heavy.
Tell us about the circumstancesaround the loss of your
grandmother and how it affectedyou.
Ceci (13:44):
So at the same time of my dad getting sick, I was also
taking care of my grandma as apower of attorney.
So I didn't do physicalcaregiving for her but I managed
like every aspect of her lifeand moved her closer to me and
(14:09):
there was a lot of unfortunatethings she was experiencing that
I needed to advocate for herand actually go like a legal
route on her behalf.
She had Parkinson's anddementia and both are just
really sad diseases and it's mymom's mom so naturally really
triggering and wishing my momwas there, as my grandma slowly
(14:35):
is less herself and she doesn'tremember my mom and then she
doesn't remember me.
And that is all going on at thesame time of my dad getting
sick and then dying.
It was a lot at once.
Michelle (14:52):
Yeah, so when we talked before, you shared some
of the ways that your griefimpacted you physically and you
talked about what we calledsomatic issues, and you learned
a lot about yourself as a resultof going through all of that.
Can you talk about that alittle bit?
Ceci (15:09):
Yeah, absolutely so.
In therapy we did a body scanand I'll briefly describe that.
Basically, I would close myeyes, plant my feet on the
ground, I'm sitting down and atherapist really mindfully
guides you through, noticingyour body from your head to your
toes, and it's a very slow,like experience and it made me
(15:38):
very aware.
It was such a good takeawaythat when I think about the
passing of my mom and her lossand what that meant and felt
like I feel her in my chest,like in my lungs and because she
was my heart and also it feltlike I got the wind knocked out
(15:59):
of me.
And then when I think aboutlosing my dad and reflect on him
, I could feel that in my legsbecause if losing him felt like
someone pulled the rug out, heprovided foundation for me
immensely after losing my mom.
(16:20):
And so it was reallyinteresting to do that body scan
and notice.
You know, our body holds somuch more than we are aware and
can put words to, and so justlike taking time and being
mindful, like where am I holdingthis and those are the places
(16:41):
that my grief and it lies.
And then, after my dad died amore just like somatic symptom I
was nauseous.
I was nauseous for two weeks.
I felt like I was on a boat.
I did not throw up, but I wasjust nauseous and I remember
(17:04):
people asking like you need toeat, you need to eat, and I'm
like I do not have an appetite.
I feel so nauseous and that isso real.
Everyone experiences itdifferently and for me, after my
dad's, I was nauseous, ofcourse, lots of fatigue.
I'm like not wanting to get outof bed.
Michelle (17:25):
Yeah, you know, when you describe the feeling in your
legs.
I've even heard it talked about.
You know, like this sense ofnot wanting to move forward.
You know, because our legscarry us forward in life and
it's almost kind of symbolic ofyou just being stuck where you
are, you know.
Ceci (17:41):
Absolutely.
Michelle (17:42):
That is so very real and I remember going through the
same things when my son, Sean,passed away, and it's just yeah,
it's very important to be awareof your body and how it can be
trapped in there.
So thanks for sharing that.
You talked about your education.
You recently graduated, earninga master's degree in psychology
(18:02):
.
Ceci (18:02):
Congratulations on that.
Thank you, thank you.
Michelle (18:06):
So now that you're at this place I mean that took a
lot of courage and strength.
You have everything that you'vebeen through to then buckle
down and pay attention tostudies when your brain was
probably just everywhere else.
What would you say is the mostimportant realization that
you've had about grief that youdidn't completely understand
maybe before?
(18:26):
And how has your educationcontributed to your
understanding of loss?
Ceci (18:31):
I started grad school one quarter before he died and then
when he died I was like, oh well, I am way too familiar with
grief, because grief is why Iwanted to go to school.
Losing my mom is why, 10 yearslater, I ended up going to
school to get a degree inclinical psych to help others in
(18:55):
a more clinical realm.
And so I was like, okay, I canstart school.
I'm 10 years out from my mom,I'm super grounded, I got this.
I have so much vision, I feel alittle more restored.
And then my dad dies and I'mlike, oh, I don't think I can do
this.
So how my education helped myunderstanding of loss.
(19:16):
Honestly, there needs to be waymore grief classes.
So I think my own experiencewas like the biggest teacher.
Being in therapy was anotherbig teacher and then what was a
part of school was actuallybeing in an internship and
(19:39):
having a supervisor and clientsLike.
I learned so much more beinghands on in the room and
witnessing a variety of type oflosses, and I learned what
people need is different inother people's coping skills and
just more about being human andhow people grieve and how to be
(20:05):
in the room with them and whatclinical skills are actually
helpful.
Michelle (20:12):
When you and I talked before, I shared with you that
after my son's passing, I onlywanted to talk to another
bereaved parent not somebody whohad the degree, because I
wanted somebody with theexperience.
So I think that makes a lot ofsense, because the two of them
combined are actually probablysuper powerful, but that
experience is definitelyinvaluable.
So you said that you heardthings from people, and I wanna
(20:38):
talk about that, because so manypeople say well intentioned
things after they find outsomeone's lost a loved one.
What are some of the thingsthat people said to you during
the grieving process that youdidn't find helpful, and what
have you since learned?
There are better ways tosupport a griever.
Ceci (20:56):
Yeah, unfortunately there are so many silver linings like
thrown around that just didn'tland well for me, maybe for
others.
But what wasn't helpful waswhen people said they're in a
better place.
They wouldn't want you to cry,they would want you to be happy,
(21:18):
they're finally together, andthat wasn't helpful.
All of those weren't, becauseessentially just all of them
felt dismissive and it felt likeI had to put a guard up then
and couldn't be my full,authentic, grieving self, Right,
(21:39):
right.
And it wasn't about I'm not madabout where they're at, I'm
just mad where they're not atand right now I won't back.
That was the thoughts in mymind when I would hear those.
Michelle (21:58):
Right.
Ceci (21:59):
I'm sure you've heard some too, oh yeah, and I think
you're right.
Michelle (22:02):
I mean, we need to be able to grieve in our own way at
that time, and so when we hearthose kind of platitudes, it
doesn't help us in our state ofmourning.
But what were some things thatyou could offer that you think
would be beneficial?
Ceci (22:18):
Yes, yes, some things that are helpful is to be present,
just so.
Anything anyone is gonna say isnot going to take the pain away
, it's not gonna bring yourperson back, it's not gonna
(22:39):
change the future.
When my mom died, I wasn'tmarried.
She wasn't gonna be at mywedding.
I still don't have kids, and ifI do have kids, I won't have
parents.
They won't have my grandparents.
Grieving is continual right,and you're grieving more than
once, so anything someone'sgonna say is never gonna take
(23:02):
all of that away what helps isjust listening.
Michelle (23:08):
Do you make a really good point about you grieve more
than once.
I've never heard anybody quiteput it that way, but you're
right.
I mean it's a lifetime andthere's those milestones in our
lives that they won't be presentfor.
And then, like you said, aboutchildren, I mean I'll never have
grandchildren and I think aboutthat all the time as I interact
(23:29):
with other people my age whoare experiencing that and it
kind of triggers that you knowloss response all over again.
Ceci (23:37):
Absolutely, yes, absolutely.
So being present is really key.
What that looks like is youdon't have to say anything, you
could just be, and then you justbe okay with awkwardness.
I've had friends at times comeover and I just like stared at
(23:57):
their dog or their kid and wejust don't talk.
They're early on, you know, ingrief, and that's all you need
is, I mean, a witness.
You know, a lot of pain justneeds to be witnessed.
And so just being present, notnot not worrying about having
the right words.
Michelle (24:17):
Not trying to fix them .
Ceci (24:19):
Yes, yes, yeah.
Another thing that's reallyhelpful is mindful, like being
mindful of them throughout time,because it's not going away.
You know, like you know, youand I, this is our reality.
Like you said, you won't havegrandkids.
If I have kids, they won't havegrandparents.
(24:40):
So just being mindful of themthrough throughout, especially
the first year.
You know, entering the holidays,birthdays, death aversaries I
personally, when someone I knowloses a loved one, I like I put
their, their important dates inmy phone just to let them, to
(25:00):
remind me, and then I can justbe mindful of them during that
time.
And it helps a lot becausesometimes, as time goes on,
you're, you know you're you mayfeel like you're the only one
that really is carrying them onor you remember them, and to
feel a support system that alsoexpresses oh man, I wish your
(25:25):
mom was here.
She was just such a good friend.
Like, oh man, I miss my friend.
You know you can miss yourfriend and I can miss my mom,
and that feels good together.
So being mindful and beingpresent and just listening.
Michelle (25:42):
Yeah, I love what you said about keeping track of the
dates too, because you know, Ihave a friend that lost her
husband more than a year ago andshe's entering the second year
and I remember for me the secondyear was worse than the first.
Ceci (25:56):
Yes, I agree.
Michelle (25:57):
A lot of people, yeah, a lot of people.
It's that way because thereality sets in.
Okay, I didn't dream this, thisis really happening.
This is their birthday thesecond year, yeah, and I
remember that and reached out toher and she was happy that she
had somebody who couldunderstand that, because I think
, by by the time a year has comeand gone, people think, well,
(26:18):
she should be over it by now andthey're not even interacting.
Ceci (26:22):
So yeah, very important.
Yeah, you're so right on thesecond year.
You're like, oh, this ishappening again.
And then it sits in that like,oh, this is going to keep
happening.
Michelle (26:36):
Yeah, it's real.
Well, let's talk about thedifficult topic of keeping the
faith, and I know that you werekind of raised in the church,
raised in faith, but that thisreally does a number on our
faith, doesn't it?
Ceci (26:52):
Yes, oh man, absolutely so .
When, before my mom died, Ireally wrestled with my faith as
she got diagnosed for thesecond time with cancer wrestled
with my faith then I.
So, when she died, I actuallyfelt closer to the Lord and ran
(27:18):
towards him versus away from him.
I was in a really supportiveenvironment and had great
mentors and leaders in that timeof kind of more faith crisis
and thank you for that diamondsimpact nine million out of the
last two years like that as well.
Then, when my dad died, I hadso much anger and, to be honest,
(27:41):
I'm definitely still so in thisseason or chapter of examine
where I'm asking difficultquestions about God's goodness,
about God's power, about prayer,and it is not in me to just
(28:08):
drift away and just well, I'lljust end up where I end up.
It is just who I am to.
I'm going to figure this outbecause this is faith is
important to me and has been foryears, and I want to know what
I believe and I'm going to dishthis out, you know.
So it looks like listening topodcasts, listening to teachers,
(28:32):
reading books, havingone-on-ones with people I trust
that could talk to me about theBible, about theology, and get
really nitty kind of nittygritty, I guess, for lack of a
better word.
The last couple years it's beenreally difficult to just pray,
(28:57):
because saying just Dear God andinviting and asking Him for
strength or healing in this area, or just talking to Him about
something else, is actuallytriggering, because I've prayed
so much for healing for my momand dad and so I'm just holding
(29:21):
this tension of, okay, what doesmy faith look like after losing
both parents, after tons ofpeople praying for them, after
them being total believers, andso much faith and love for the
Lord, how do I hold that?
This is something I cannotignore and I may not find the
(29:42):
answers.
I don't know.
Like I said, I'm definitelystill in a season of examine and
at the same time you know, inthis wrestling it's ironic, I
guess you could say in thatwrestle I'm still talking to God
, right, but just in acompletely different way, and
(30:03):
sometimes my prayers just looklike Dear God, amen, that's all
I have.
I am no.
Liturgies are really helpfulright now, which are just kind
of preplanned prayers like frombooks or the Psalms.
So just the Lord's Prayer issomething I've been going to.
Michelle (30:25):
That's good.
Well, I love your honesty andtransparency about being in the
examination process, becausethat's definitely a good place
to be in.
I mean, that's.
There's a depth I think, 10years out for myself in walking
through all of this and learninghow life works and how God can
(30:47):
use these circumstances and wetalked a little bit about that
before and in my life I've seenit, but it took a while to get
there.
So I love having thisconversation with you because
you haven't abandoned the faith.
You're examining it and Ibelieve you're going to come
through it even stronger, likeso many people do.
But I think it's a really goodplace for people listening who
(31:10):
might be experiencing whatyou're experiencing to know that
it's normal and natural foreven a person of faith to feel
that way.
Because I think we talked alittle bit before about there's
a little bit almost of a stigmaabout grief in the church,
because where's your faith?
You know it's there in heavenand it's all good, but these
emotions are real and we have toprocess them as they come.
Ceci (31:33):
Exactly, and if we don't, it can be dangerous.
Michelle (31:36):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
So, you're doing good.
Ceci (31:40):
Oh, thank you, Michelle.
Michelle (31:42):
So, Ceci, you shared so many great insights about
your grief experience and I justwant to capture them here
because so much of it bearsrepeating.
You told us that the cumulativegrief you experienced led you
to a place of darkness that youhad never experienced before.
That even frightened you attimes, but you chose to tell
(32:04):
your husband and a trustedfriend and then sought the help
needed to process those emotionsand work through the pain.
You talked about the somaticissues you felt and how grief
can take up residence in ourbodies.
So it's important to be mindfulof the places that our grief
can reside and make an effort torecognize and release the
(32:26):
tension as it comes.
You shared about the benefitsof therapy in conjunction with
education, and you have a deeperunderstanding of the nature of
grief, having lived through yourown losses.
You pointed out that sometimeswell-meaning people can say
things that leave grieversfeeling even more misunderstood
and isolated, and you encouragedothers to best support grievers
(32:49):
by being present, by listeningand being mindful of dates and
milestones as a means of showingsupport and love.
And you talked about the roleof faith in the healing process.
You openly shared what it lookslike for you today and you
honestly talked about thetension you hold related to
praying to God in grief afterpraying to God for healing.
(33:13):
So much raw and beautiful truthin your words, and I truly
appreciate it all.
So, Ceci, what other lessonshave you learned having been
through all of this, c an youshare with someone listening who
needs hope right now?
Ceci (33:29):
Yeah, so good.
I've been giving this a lot ofthought and it's interesting
because I think if you wouldhave asked me a handful of years
ago, after I was losing justone parent, my lessons might
have been a little differentAfter losing both and my grandma
I mean, there's a handful, butone of the lessons is a reminder
(33:58):
again of the brevity of lifeand to just hold it with hands
open, and that is my value andframework of how I really live.
And I've learned about mycapacity and to identify it and
(34:21):
to be okay with it and to act onit.
What I mean by that is I'mstill functioning at such a
different level than previously,before my dad died.
I'm the type of person that canhop from one social gathering
to the other and be so jazzed atthe end of the night, and the
(34:45):
last couple years are completelyopposite.
One conversation or saying hito the cashier at Trader Joe's
wiped me out.
That was super humbling.
Knowing my capacity, being okaywith it and allowing myself
(35:06):
grace is just a massive lessonI've taken away from all of
these losses.
I kind of joke, but kind of alsomean it that I owe a lot of my
grief healing journey to JoannaGaines for starting the Magnolia
Network, because I've been allof her beautiful shows the last
(35:29):
couple years and that's what Ineeded.
But in all seriousness, I thinkthat I've learned if you want
to end up healthy in the midstof this and there's no end, I'm
not going to say at the end ofthis, but in the midst of this,
(35:50):
you want to continue to stayhealthy, you're going to go back
and forth of taking on yourgrief head on and you're going
to need to escape your grief.
It takes both face it andescape it, and that is therapy.
And then vinging your favoriteshow, and it takes both and your
(36:13):
brain needs a break, your bodyneeds a break.
If you just did one, I don'tknow how well that would go, but
I've learned that you need bothand that's okay.
Have lots of grace on yourselfand that's been so helpful and
really humbling and hard at thesame time.
Michelle (36:31):
That's good advice for me too.
I tend to take it all on andnot allow that.
Joanna Gaines time.
I need to do more of that.
Ceci (36:39):
Yes, I encourage it.
I think it's so necessary.
We just need to also know ourcoping skills.
I've learned my coping skillsthrough all of this.
Zillow is a coping skill,facebook Marketplace, and there
(36:59):
are funny coping skills, butthere are serious ones that
aren't healthy, and so it'sreally important to know them
and to have a really trustedperson around you as well.
At the end of all these griefs,these losses, and my schooling
(37:21):
and education and my internshipat a grief center, and I really
believe that everyone grievingneeds sustainable support and
purpose, no matter what you lost, who you lost, how old you are.
Whatever goes to, it seems like, comes to the surface of
(37:46):
everyone's needs, and I believethat.
Michelle (37:51):
Those are great, great lessons.
Well, I'm thrilled to have hadthis conversation with you.
As I said, I do believe you'redoing great.
I think you have a ton to sharealready and I would just
encourage you, as somebody who,like I said, is 10 years out
Keep the faith, keep examiningit.
Ceci (38:10):
Thank you, michelle.
Michelle (38:11):
You'll get even more lessons as you keep going
through this journey and maybeyou'll come back and share with
me again.
Ceci (38:20):
Thank you so much for creating a platform for people
to listen and learn and feelconnected and being so helpful,
so helpful.
Michelle (38:30):
Thank you, and thank you so much for agreeing to come
on and be my guest today.
I really appreciate it.
Ceci (38:35):
My pleasure.
Michelle (38:36):
Such an honor.
So for those of you listening,you might be in a similar place
right now.
You may have heard Ceci'sdescription of her intense grief
, the pain in her voice as sheshared about her dark thoughts
and terrible, somatic responsesto her losses.
But I also pray that you heardthe hope in her voice as she
(38:58):
detailed the ways in which she'sexamining and exploring the
faith that she once clung to.
Trials and losses and adversityof all sorts can really pull
the rug out from underneath us,as Ceci said.
But when those dark moments inour lives come, it's okay to
just say Dear God, amen, justdon't turn away.
(39:23):
Being in the season ofexamination is okay and it may
be exactly where God wants youright now.
Sometimes, when all is strippedaway and we have nowhere else
to turn, we discover who Godreally is and it can truly
change the outcome of the restof our lives.
So don't lose hope today, myfriend.
Open up your heart to examinewhat you believe today and it's
(39:49):
my prayer that you will find thehope you need to carry you
through, and then one day you'llbe able to help someone else
with the lessons you learned inyour loss.
Thanks for listening.
Well, hey everybody, and welcome back to Qualified,
the place where incrediblepeople share their stories of
overcoming great adversity andloss to inspire you and give you
hope.
I'm Michelle Heaton.
When loss comes early in life,it's hard to know how to manage
the emotions that come, havingno point of reference to draw on
(00:32):
.
And when a young girl loses hermom, her confidant and friend,
the loss can have an impact formany years to come.
Well, my guest today experienceda loss of her mother at an
early age.
She put her life on hold for atime to process her grief and to
examine what was important inher life.
Then she would be forced torevisit her grief upon losing
(00:55):
her father and grandmotherwithin a few close years.
Her story of resilience,healing, discovery and
compassion would be born out ofthese sorrowful events.
But she's developed a newcompassion for helping others
with her experience and todayshe's here to share some of it
with you.
She is a beloved daughter, wifeand associate, marriage and
(01:19):
family therapist, author,photographer, singer, songwriter
and small business owner.
Her name is Ceci Frost and it'smy honor to have her as my
guest on the show today.
Welcome to Qualified, Ceci.
Ceci (01:33):
Frost.
Wow, thank you so much.
Thank you for having me
Michelle (01:40):
Of course.
So let's get into it.
You know I mentioned your momand I know how close you were to
her, of course, and she passedaway in 2009, and she had cancer
.
That came and went and at 18years old, you lost her and her
death had a significant impacton you.
Talk about the feelings youexperienced and how your mom's
(02:02):
passing impacted yourrelationship with your father.
Ceci (02:07):
Yeah, thanks for asking that, and it's so hard to pin
down, like man, so many things.
I was 18.
And losing her felt like losingmy anchor and my compass and,
(02:31):
like you expressed, we werereally close.
She was my best friend, mymirror, my model, you know
everything, and so losing herfelt like the air had been just
sucked out of me, just gone, andat the same time, it made me at
(02:56):
a really young age realize thebrevity of life and how it's.
Life is so uncertain andanything could happen.
No one is exempt and thatimpacted my perspective and
(03:17):
framework and the way Iapproached things, my motivation
and everything.
It more set like a fire underme and was like dang, I need to
live to the fullest.
Like I could die tomorrow.
Yeah, it changed everythingabout my life and me.
My parents got married when Iwas three.
(03:37):
They had both been previouslymarried before, so I was three
with the new dad and my.
He is all I've known as a dad.
My biological dad was not inthe picture and he already had
three kids that were a lot olderthan me and essentially like
late teens and 20s, almost outof the house, and so my parents
(04:01):
got married.
He's like.
I know I have a three year oldagain and so I say this to just
create context of like ourrelationship.
So I grew up that is like mydad, you know, it's all I've
known.
But in my teen years we had areally challenging dynamic where
oftentimes my mom felt in themiddle and so my dad and I
weren't close emotionally whenshe died.
(04:25):
And when she died it was a veryintentional conversation and
decision between him and I tomake it work, because he was my
last parent and I wanted tostill.
I wanted him in my life stillobviously.
So, with very intentionalchoices and conversations, we
(04:48):
restored our relationship and Iam forever grateful because we
became so close, extremely close.
Michelle (04:56):
Well, I'm so happy to hear that you had that
communication with your dad andthat you were able to close that
emotional gap between the twoof you.
That's wonderful.
So can you tell us about whathappened in 2021 in the middle
of COVID when, sadly, hesuddenly passed away?
How would you describe thegrief you felt at this point,
now that you've lost bothparents?
Ceci (05:21):
Yeah, in 2021, I experienced the loss of my
remaining parent and I'mparentless by 30.
And I just remember I keptsaying right after he died was I
have no parents.
I have no parents like.
I have no parents like what?
(05:43):
So just some story is in thespan of four weeks, my dad was
in and out of the hospital aboutthree times during COVID.
You know there are very muchCOVID rules and regulations and
no visitors.
Nurses, doctors everyone is somaxed out, so tired.
(06:04):
They thought my dad hadpneumonia and that's what they
were looking at and they didmultiple tests that compromised
his ability to breathe and hishealth.
And so, over the course of fourweeks, this is all happening
and we're not allowed to visit,we're not allowed to advocate
for him in the moment in hisroom, and it was very, very hard
(06:30):
and difficult.
And then, two days before hedied, suddenly in the middle of
the night, he was diagnosed withlung cancer and thankfully,
because he was in an ICU, wewere allowed to see him.
Like one at a time.
But I was there with him and Iwas with my mom as well when
(06:54):
both of them passed and Idescribed losing both of them
like if I was a boat at sealosing and I had two anchors,
you know, that kept me grounded.
Losing my mom was like cuttingoff one anchor.
Losing my dad was cutting offthe last.
And then I'm just kind offloating and wondering, like in
this new territory that's,that's how it felt.
Michelle (07:19):
Yeah, I can appreciate your description of losing your
anchors.
That's such a good way todescribe loss, that feeling of
floating sort of aimlessly for atime or get that.
And I'm so sorry, Ceci, aboutthe loss of your parents.
So hard.
So you said that you werepresent at the moment when each
(07:40):
of them passed.
That's pretty tough On one handmaybe a blessing, but on the
other pretty traumatic as well.
Do you recall anythingsignificant about those moments
that you want to share with us?
Ceci (07:54):
Yeah, I can absolutely share, and I was diagnosed with
PTSD after my dad died.
I struggled immensely with mydreams and intrusive thoughts
and I witnessed both of theirpassing, which were so different
(08:16):
.
My mom had cancer multipletimes throughout my life.
She was suffering for years onand off and her death was really
slow.
She got to say a ton ofgoodbyes.
She had a rare opportunity ofprocessing her death as much as
(08:37):
you can while you're stillsuffering.
But with that came being awitness to a lot of her pain and
a lot of her suffering, seeingher and hearing her and then
witnessing my dad and it beingsudden, and I witnessed him
(08:59):
being resuscitated like fourtimes.
And you see things and you hearthings that you just can't
ignore.
They just are ingrained in yourmind.
And so I say that to givecontext of my dreams and you can
imagine like where they wentand they were reoccurring and I
(09:23):
would wake up in the morning orin the middle of the night and
my heart racing and it affectedmy sleep and insomnia and I
majorly tired and just reallystruggling with that.
I wouldn't.
Also, at the same time, I say Iwouldn't change.
I wouldn't change the fact thatI'm glad I was there with them.
(09:46):
It was dark and it was painful,but I'm so glad I got to be
there as they transitioned fromearth to heaven and just like be
a witness to their soul.
So, then, that's not foreveryone, because it does come
with a cost, though.
Michelle (10:07):
Yeah well, tell me a little bit more about the PTSD
diagnosis.
What was it that brought you into see a specialist who made
the diagnosis?
Ceci (10:17):
Yeah, I had gone on and off to therapy since my mom died
, which I highly recommend andencourage, and after my dad died
I started going to a traumatherapist.
So she specialized more in whatI had been experiencing and I
(10:44):
was experiencing suicidalideation and I had never gone
through that before After my daddied it was so the pain of
thinking about the fact thatthey won't be here the rest of
my life was so heavy that itmade it.
(11:07):
That is what encouraged me togo in that direction of thoughts
and I simmered on it by myselffor a little bit.
And I say this also tonormalize some things, because
in grief you might often findthat you're like I just I don't
(11:28):
want to, I just kind of justwish I wasn't here and
unfortunately, sadly, that iscommon.
And it got really scary for meto keep to myself.
And finally I ended up tellingmy husband, who I absolutely
trust he's been through so muchwith me on this great journey.
The same day I told him I wasgonna see my close friend was
(11:53):
coming over, who's a socialworker, and I told her as well.
And it was probably one of thescariest things to do was tell
someone where I was at cause itwas really dark and I didn't
want to like freak them out, Ididn't want to get locked up.
(12:13):
But like at the same time I waslike kind of scared of myself
and didn't know like where Iwould go with this.
And then ended up in moretherapy and where we you know,
she tested me and for PTSD andwe did some other things that
(12:35):
were helpful too and they're alittle bit of EMDR and kind of
clinical skills like that.
So that's what really led me togoing into more trauma focused
therapy for myself.
Michelle (12:50):
Yeah, Well, first of all, thank you for your
vulnerability and sharing thoseintimate thoughts, and I believe
you're right.
It's probably very common forpeople to feel that way
initially, right after the lossof a loved one, and I am super
proud of you that you reachedout and talked to your husband
and to your friend and that,with help, you were able to
(13:13):
overcome those feelings.
That was definitely the rightthing to do and a brave thing as
well.
So, sadly, after being poundedby the waves of grief following
the loss of both of your parentsyour grandmother, your mother's
mom also died around that time.
So, as you know, when we faceloss upon loss, it's also
(13:34):
referred to as cumulative griefand it can really weigh heavy.
Tell us about the circumstancesaround the loss of your
grandmother and how it affectedyou.
Ceci (13:44):
So at the same time of my dad getting sick, I was also
taking care of my grandma as apower of attorney.
So I didn't do physicalcaregiving for her but I managed
like every aspect of her lifeand moved her closer to me and
(14:09):
there was a lot of unfortunatethings she was experiencing that
I needed to advocate for herand actually go like a legal
route on her behalf.
She had Parkinson's anddementia and both are just
really sad diseases and it's mymom's mom so naturally really
triggering and wishing my momwas there, as my grandma slowly
(14:35):
is less herself and she doesn'tremember my mom and then she
doesn't remember me.
And that is all going on at thesame time of my dad getting
sick and then dying.
It was a lot at once.
Michelle (14:52):
Yeah, so when we talked before, you shared some
of the ways that your griefimpacted you physically and you
talked about what we calledsomatic issues, and you learned
a lot about yourself as a resultof going through all of that.
Can you talk about that alittle bit?
Ceci (15:09):
Yeah, absolutely so.
In therapy we did a body scanand I'll briefly describe that.
Basically, I would close myeyes, plant my feet on the
ground, I'm sitting down and atherapist really mindfully
guides you through, noticingyour body from your head to your
toes, and it's a very slow,like experience and it made me
(15:38):
very aware.
It was such a good takeawaythat when I think about the
passing of my mom and her lossand what that meant and felt
like I feel her in my chest,like in my lungs and because she
was my heart and also it feltlike I got the wind knocked out
(15:59):
of me.
And then when I think aboutlosing my dad and reflect on him
, I could feel that in my legsbecause if losing him felt like
someone pulled the rug out, heprovided foundation for me
immensely after losing my mom.
(16:20):
And so it was reallyinteresting to do that body scan
and notice.
You know, our body holds somuch more than we are aware and
can put words to, and so justlike taking time and being
mindful, like where am I holdingthis and those are the places
(16:41):
that my grief and it lies.
And then, after my dad died amore just like somatic symptom I
was nauseous.
I was nauseous for two weeks.
I felt like I was on a boat.
I did not throw up, but I wasjust nauseous and I remember
(17:04):
people asking like you need toeat, you need to eat, and I'm
like I do not have an appetite.
I feel so nauseous and that isso real.
Everyone experiences itdifferently and for me, after my
dad's, I was nauseous, ofcourse, lots of fatigue.
I'm like not wanting to get outof bed.
Michelle (17:25):
Yeah, you know, when you describe the feeling in your
legs.
I've even heard it talked about.
You know, like this sense ofnot wanting to move forward.
You know, because our legscarry us forward in life and
it's almost kind of symbolic ofyou just being stuck where you
are, you know.
Ceci (17:41):
Absolutely.
Michelle (17:42):
That is so very real and I remember going through the
same things when my son, Sean,passed away, and it's just yeah,
it's very important to be awareof your body and how it can be
trapped in there.
So thanks for sharing that.
You talked about your education.
You recently graduated, earninga master's degree in psychology
(18:02):
.
Ceci (18:02):
Congratulations on that.
Thank you, thank you.
Michelle (18:06):
So now that you're at this place I mean that took a
lot of courage and strength.
You have everything that you'vebeen through to then buckle
down and pay attention tostudies when your brain was
probably just everywhere else.
What would you say is the mostimportant realization that
you've had about grief that youdidn't completely understand
maybe before?
(18:26):
And how has your educationcontributed to your
understanding of loss?
Ceci (18:31):
I started grad school one quarter before he died and then
when he died I was like, oh well, I am way too familiar with
grief, because grief is why Iwanted to go to school.
Losing my mom is why, 10 yearslater, I ended up going to
school to get a degree inclinical psych to help others in
(18:55):
a more clinical realm.
And so I was like, okay, I canstart school.
I'm 10 years out from my mom,I'm super grounded, I got this.
I have so much vision, I feel alittle more restored.
And then my dad dies and I'mlike, oh, I don't think I can do
this.
So how my education helped myunderstanding of loss.
(19:16):
Honestly, there needs to be waymore grief classes.
So I think my own experiencewas like the biggest teacher.
Being in therapy was anotherbig teacher and then what was a
part of school was actuallybeing in an internship and
(19:39):
having a supervisor and clientsLike.
I learned so much more beinghands on in the room and
witnessing a variety of type oflosses, and I learned what
people need is different inother people's coping skills and
just more about being human andhow people grieve and how to be
(20:05):
in the room with them and whatclinical skills are actually
helpful.
Michelle (20:12):
When you and I talked before, I shared with you that
after my son's passing, I onlywanted to talk to another
bereaved parent not somebody whohad the degree, because I
wanted somebody with theexperience.
So I think that makes a lot ofsense, because the two of them
combined are actually probablysuper powerful, but that
experience is definitelyinvaluable.
So you said that you heardthings from people, and I wanna
(20:38):
talk about that, because so manypeople say well intentioned
things after they find outsomeone's lost a loved one.
What are some of the thingsthat people said to you during
the grieving process that youdidn't find helpful, and what
have you since learned?
There are better ways tosupport a griever.
Ceci (20:56):
Yeah, unfortunately there are so many silver linings like
thrown around that just didn'tland well for me, maybe for
others.
But what wasn't helpful waswhen people said they're in a
better place.
They wouldn't want you to cry,they would want you to be happy,
(21:18):
they're finally together, andthat wasn't helpful.
All of those weren't, becauseessentially just all of them
felt dismissive and it felt likeI had to put a guard up then
and couldn't be my full,authentic, grieving self, Right,
(21:39):
right.
And it wasn't about I'm not madabout where they're at, I'm
just mad where they're not atand right now I won't back.
That was the thoughts in mymind when I would hear those.
Michelle (21:58):
Right.
Ceci (21:59):
I'm sure you've heard some too, oh yeah, and I think
you're right.
Michelle (22:02):
I mean, we need to be able to grieve in our own way at
that time, and so when we hearthose kind of platitudes, it
doesn't help us in our state ofmourning.
But what were some things thatyou could offer that you think
would be beneficial?
Ceci (22:18):
Yes, yes, some things that are helpful is to be present,
just so.
Anything anyone is gonna say isnot going to take the pain away
, it's not gonna bring yourperson back, it's not gonna
(22:39):
change the future.
When my mom died, I wasn'tmarried.
She wasn't gonna be at mywedding.
I still don't have kids, and ifI do have kids, I won't have
parents.
They won't have my grandparents.
Grieving is continual right,and you're grieving more than
once, so anything someone'sgonna say is never gonna take
(23:02):
all of that away what helps isjust listening.
Michelle (23:08):
Do you make a really good point about you grieve more
than once.
I've never heard anybody quiteput it that way, but you're
right.
I mean it's a lifetime andthere's those milestones in our
lives that they won't be presentfor.
And then, like you said, aboutchildren, I mean I'll never have
grandchildren and I think aboutthat all the time as I interact
(23:29):
with other people my age whoare experiencing that and it
kind of triggers that you knowloss response all over again.
Ceci (23:37):
Absolutely, yes, absolutely.
So being present is really key.
What that looks like is youdon't have to say anything, you
could just be, and then you justbe okay with awkwardness.
I've had friends at times comeover and I just like stared at
(23:57):
their dog or their kid and wejust don't talk.
They're early on, you know, ingrief, and that's all you need
is, I mean, a witness.
You know, a lot of pain justneeds to be witnessed.
And so just being present, notnot not worrying about having
the right words.
Michelle (24:17):
Not trying to fix them .
Ceci (24:19):
Yes, yes, yeah.
Another thing that's reallyhelpful is mindful, like being
mindful of them throughout time,because it's not going away.
You know, like you know, youand I, this is our reality.
Like you said, you won't havegrandkids.
If I have kids, they won't havegrandparents.
(24:40):
So just being mindful of themthrough throughout, especially
the first year.
You know, entering the holidays,birthdays, death aversaries I
personally, when someone I knowloses a loved one, I like I put
their, their important dates inmy phone just to let them, to
(25:00):
remind me, and then I can justbe mindful of them during that
time.
And it helps a lot becausesometimes, as time goes on,
you're, you know you're you mayfeel like you're the only one
that really is carrying them onor you remember them, and to
feel a support system that alsoexpresses oh man, I wish your
(25:25):
mom was here.
She was just such a good friend.
Like, oh man, I miss my friend.
You know you can miss yourfriend and I can miss my mom,
and that feels good together.
So being mindful and beingpresent and just listening.
Michelle (25:42):
Yeah, I love what you said about keeping track of the
dates too, because you know, Ihave a friend that lost her
husband more than a year ago andshe's entering the second year
and I remember for me the secondyear was worse than the first.
Ceci (25:56):
Yes, I agree.
Michelle (25:57):
A lot of people, yeah, a lot of people.
It's that way because thereality sets in.
Okay, I didn't dream this, thisis really happening.
This is their birthday thesecond year, yeah, and I
remember that and reached out toher and she was happy that she
had somebody who couldunderstand that, because I think
, by by the time a year has comeand gone, people think, well,
(26:18):
she should be over it by now andthey're not even interacting.
Ceci (26:22):
So yeah, very important.
Yeah, you're so right on thesecond year.
You're like, oh, this ishappening again.
And then it sits in that like,oh, this is going to keep
happening.
Michelle (26:36):
Yeah, it's real.
Well, let's talk about thedifficult topic of keeping the
faith, and I know that you werekind of raised in the church,
raised in faith, but that thisreally does a number on our
faith, doesn't it?
Ceci (26:52):
Yes, oh man, absolutely so .
When, before my mom died, Ireally wrestled with my faith as
she got diagnosed for thesecond time with cancer wrestled
with my faith then I.
So, when she died, I actuallyfelt closer to the Lord and ran
(27:18):
towards him versus away from him.
I was in a really supportiveenvironment and had great
mentors and leaders in that timeof kind of more faith crisis
and thank you for that diamondsimpact nine million out of the
last two years like that as well.
Then, when my dad died, I hadso much anger and, to be honest,
(27:41):
I'm definitely still so in thisseason or chapter of examine
where I'm asking difficultquestions about God's goodness,
about God's power, about prayer,and it is not in me to just
(28:08):
drift away and just well, I'lljust end up where I end up.
It is just who I am to.
I'm going to figure this outbecause this is faith is
important to me and has been foryears, and I want to know what
I believe and I'm going to dishthis out, you know.
So it looks like listening topodcasts, listening to teachers,
(28:32):
reading books, havingone-on-ones with people I trust
that could talk to me about theBible, about theology, and get
really nitty kind of nittygritty, I guess, for lack of a
better word.
The last couple years it's beenreally difficult to just pray,
(28:57):
because saying just Dear God andinviting and asking Him for
strength or healing in this area, or just talking to Him about
something else, is actuallytriggering, because I've prayed
so much for healing for my momand dad and so I'm just holding
(29:21):
this tension of, okay, what doesmy faith look like after losing
both parents, after tons ofpeople praying for them, after
them being total believers, andso much faith and love for the
Lord, how do I hold that?
This is something I cannotignore and I may not find the
(29:42):
answers.
I don't know.
Like I said, I'm definitelystill in a season of examine and
at the same time you know, inthis wrestling it's ironic, I
guess you could say in thatwrestle I'm still talking to God
, right, but just in acompletely different way, and
(30:03):
sometimes my prayers just looklike Dear God, amen, that's all
I have.
I am no.
Liturgies are really helpfulright now, which are just kind
of preplanned prayers like frombooks or the Psalms.
So just the Lord's Prayer issomething I've been going to.
Michelle (30:25):
That's good.
Well, I love your honesty andtransparency about being in the
examination process, becausethat's definitely a good place
to be in.
I mean, that's.
There's a depth I think, 10years out for myself in walking
through all of this and learninghow life works and how God can
(30:47):
use these circumstances and wetalked a little bit about that
before and in my life I've seenit, but it took a while to get
there.
So I love having thisconversation with you because
you haven't abandoned the faith.
You're examining it and Ibelieve you're going to come
through it even stronger, likeso many people do.
But I think it's a really goodplace for people listening who
(31:10):
might be experiencing whatyou're experiencing to know that
it's normal and natural foreven a person of faith to feel
that way.
Because I think we talked alittle bit before about there's
a little bit almost of a stigmaabout grief in the church,
because where's your faith?
You know it's there in heavenand it's all good, but these
emotions are real and we have toprocess them as they come.
Ceci (31:33):
Exactly, and if we don't, it can be dangerous.
Michelle (31:36):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
So, you're doing good.
Ceci (31:40):
Oh, thank you, Michelle.
Michelle (31:42):
So, Ceci, you shared so many great insights about
your grief experience and I justwant to capture them here
because so much of it bearsrepeating.
You told us that the cumulativegrief you experienced led you
to a place of darkness that youhad never experienced before.
That even frightened you attimes, but you chose to tell
(32:04):
your husband and a trustedfriend and then sought the help
needed to process those emotionsand work through the pain.
You talked about the somaticissues you felt and how grief
can take up residence in ourbodies.
So it's important to be mindfulof the places that our grief
can reside and make an effort torecognize and release the
(32:26):
tension as it comes.
You shared about the benefitsof therapy in conjunction with
education, and you have a deeperunderstanding of the nature of
grief, having lived through yourown losses.
You pointed out that sometimeswell-meaning people can say
things that leave grieversfeeling even more misunderstood
and isolated, and you encouragedothers to best support grievers
(32:49):
by being present, by listeningand being mindful of dates and
milestones as a means of showingsupport and love.
And you talked about the roleof faith in the healing process.
You openly shared what it lookslike for you today and you
honestly talked about thetension you hold related to
praying to God in grief afterpraying to God for healing.
(33:13):
So much raw and beautiful truthin your words, and I truly
appreciate it all.
So, Ceci, what other lessonshave you learned having been
through all of this, c an youshare with someone listening who
needs hope right now?
Ceci (33:29):
Yeah, so good.
I've been giving this a lot ofthought and it's interesting
because I think if you wouldhave asked me a handful of years
ago, after I was losing justone parent, my lessons might
have been a little differentAfter losing both and my grandma
I mean, there's a handful, butone of the lessons is a reminder
(33:58):
again of the brevity of lifeand to just hold it with hands
open, and that is my value andframework of how I really live.
And I've learned about mycapacity and to identify it and
(34:21):
to be okay with it and to act onit.
What I mean by that is I'mstill functioning at such a
different level than previously,before my dad died.
I'm the type of person that canhop from one social gathering
to the other and be so jazzed atthe end of the night, and the
(34:45):
last couple years are completelyopposite.
One conversation or saying hito the cashier at Trader Joe's
wiped me out.
That was super humbling.
Knowing my capacity, being okaywith it and allowing myself
(35:06):
grace is just a massive lessonI've taken away from all of
these losses.
I kind of joke, but kind of alsomean it that I owe a lot of my
grief healing journey to JoannaGaines for starting the Magnolia
Network, because I've been allof her beautiful shows the last
(35:29):
couple years and that's what Ineeded.
But in all seriousness, I thinkthat I've learned if you want
to end up healthy in the midstof this and there's no end, I'm
not going to say at the end ofthis, but in the midst of this,
(35:50):
you want to continue to stayhealthy, you're going to go back
and forth of taking on yourgrief head on and you're going
to need to escape your grief.
It takes both face it andescape it, and that is therapy.
And then vinging your favoriteshow, and it takes both and your
(36:13):
brain needs a break, your bodyneeds a break.
If you just did one, I don'tknow how well that would go, but
I've learned that you need bothand that's okay.
Have lots of grace on yourselfand that's been so helpful and
really humbling and hard at thesame time.
Michelle (36:31):
That's good advice for me too.
I tend to take it all on andnot allow that.
Joanna Gaines time.
I need to do more of that.
Ceci (36:39):
Yes, I encourage it.
I think it's so necessary.
We just need to also know ourcoping skills.
I've learned my coping skillsthrough all of this.
Zillow is a coping skill,facebook Marketplace, and there
(36:59):
are funny coping skills, butthere are serious ones that
aren't healthy, and so it'sreally important to know them
and to have a really trustedperson around you as well.
At the end of all these griefs,these losses, and my schooling
(37:21):
and education and my internshipat a grief center, and I really
believe that everyone grievingneeds sustainable support and
purpose, no matter what you lost, who you lost, how old you are.
Whatever goes to, it seems like, comes to the surface of
(37:46):
everyone's needs, and I believethat.
Michelle (37:51):
Those are great, great lessons.
Well, I'm thrilled to have hadthis conversation with you.
As I said, I do believe you'redoing great.
I think you have a ton to sharealready and I would just
encourage you, as somebody who,like I said, is 10 years out
Keep the faith, keep examiningit.
Ceci (38:10):
Thank you, michelle.
Michelle (38:11):
You'll get even more lessons as you keep going
through this journey and maybeyou'll come back and share with
me again.
Ceci (38:20):
Thank you so much for creating a platform for people
to listen and learn and feelconnected and being so helpful,
so helpful.
Michelle (38:30):
Thank you, and thank you so much for agreeing to come
on and be my guest today.
I really appreciate it.
Ceci (38:35):
My pleasure.
Michelle (38:36):
Such an honor.
So for those of you listening,you might be in a similar place
right now.
You may have heard Ceci'sdescription of her intense grief
, the pain in her voice as sheshared about her dark thoughts
and terrible, somatic responsesto her losses.
But I also pray that you heardthe hope in her voice as she
(38:58):
detailed the ways in which she'sexamining and exploring the
faith that she once clung to.
Trials and losses and adversityof all sorts can really pull
the rug out from underneath us,as Ceci said.
But when those dark moments inour lives come, it's okay to
just say Dear God, amen, justdon't turn away.
(39:23):
Being in the season ofexamination is okay and it may
be exactly where God wants youright now.
Sometimes, when all is strippedaway and we have nowhere else
to turn, we discover who Godreally is and it can truly
change the outcome of the restof our lives.
So don't lose hope today, myfriend.
Open up your heart to examinewhat you believe today and it's
(39:49):
my prayer that you will find thehope you need to carry you
through, and then one day you'llbe able to help someone else
with the lessons you learned inyour loss.
Thanks for listening.
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