November 11, 2022 • 29 mins
Devastated by the news of her son's murder, Hope sought answers and support from others at a GriefShare meeting. Her emotional journey led her to a place of faith and forgiveness and ultimately to finding purpose in her pain.
https://www.grief2hopesupport.com/
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Episode Transcript
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Michelle (00:10):
Well, hey there, and welcome back to the show my
friend. You're listening toQualified, the place where
incredible people share theirstories of overcoming great
adversity and loss to inspireyou and give you hope. I'm
Michelle Heaton, and I'm so gladyou're here. Well, it's November
already, and the holidays willbe upon us soon. And for those
(00:34):
grieving losses, this can be anespecially difficult time of the
year. So let's take a littletimeout today and replace any
sadness or negative thoughtswith positivity and hope. I know
my guest today will help us getthere. She has been through
great adversity in her life.
Having lost her 19 year old sonsuddenly and under tragic
(00:55):
circumstances. She not onlysurvived a parent's worst
nightmare, but she got back up,regained her strength and
created a virtual grief supportgroup that she currently
facilitates to help othergrieving people. She's also a
speaker and an author who justreleased her first book, grief
to hope in which she shares herstory, and provides incredible
(01:20):
inspiration to the reader. Hername is Hope Reger. And it's my
great privilege to have her asmy guest today. Welcome to
Qualified Hope.
Hope (01:31):
Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure to be
here.
Michelle (01:35):
Great. Hope,I know your story is a painful one. So
thank you so much for agreeingto talk about it with us today.
Can you start by telling us whathappened that led to your son
Justin's passing?
Hope (01:51):
Absolutely. So in 2015, I decided to take a leap of faith
and try a new job in a new role.
In a new study, I had just gonethrough divorce with my first
husband, and I was ready forchange. So I moved from my
hometown from Xenia, Ohio toColumbus, Ohio. And Justin at
(02:11):
the time was 18. And then myolder son had started building
his life. And so he had got hisown home and building his
family. And so Justin, as atypical 18 year old was like,
Mom, I don't want to leave myfriends. So he went back and
forth between me and his friendsstaying with them. He'd stay
(02:33):
with mom when he needed food andcomfort. But he also knew that
meant getting a job, and workingand doing chores, that while
staying with friends, it wassort of like a vacation so he
teetered back and forth fromthat. Then in September of 2016,
he decided he was going to finda roommate in our hometown. So
(02:53):
he met up with a friend of afriend that was looking for a
roommate and then it ended upbeing three gentlemen sharing a
house. And so I never met thesegentlemen, and I never knew who
they were. But Justin was soexcited to have his own place
his own livelihood, he was gonnaget it, you know, a really
(03:14):
steady job work real hard. And Iwas proud of him. I was like,
Okay, you're on your own. You're19. Now you're, you're doing
you. So a couple months, wetalked every day. And sometimes
it was Mom, I need money. Andsometimes it was mom, I just
needed to talk. But we talkedpretty much every single day.
And so on November 17. At 630 inthe morning, I got a knock on
(03:41):
the door. And it was a pounding.
It wasn't really a knock on thedoor. And at the time I lived in
a condo, so I was upstairs. AndI thought, No, this can't be
good, right? And so I lookeddown and there's two police
officers standing there. And Ithought to myself, the first
thing that I thought of was whatis that child done? Yeah, I
(04:02):
don't know why that thought. ButI was thinking it couldn't be
something horrible. It just hadto be like, Oh, Justin's done
something crazy. He doesn't knowhow to get a hold of me. He's
lost his phone. Yeah, everythingwas going through my mind as I'm
walking down the stairs. So Ianswered this door, and they
asked me if I'm Justin's mom.
And I was like, Yeah. Then theyasked me if I could call a
(04:22):
number and a name that they hadgiven me on a piece of paper,
like a post it note. And I waslike, Well, do you know what
this is about? And they're like,No, we don't know what this is
about. You just need to callthem they've been trying to
reach you. Well, of course, mythought is, if it did something
serious, they would tell youlike you see on TV, see in the
(04:43):
movies, you see that? And theyacted like they didn't know what
it was about. So I called andthe person on the line said
Greene County Coroner. Oh mygosh. And so I of course as a
mother was like What? And Isaid, I'm sorry, I must have the
wrong number I literally saidthis. I, I was given this name
(05:05):
by a police officer. I live inColumbus. And he was like, Are
you Justin's mother? I said,Yes. And he said, I'm so sorry
to do this over the phone hesaid Justin has passed. And, I
said what are you talking about?
(05:27):
I just need to get to him andfix it. Whatever's going on.
Let's just fix it. Tell me wherehe is, you know, and he was
like, I'm so so sorry. And youcould just tell he was
devastated. And he had to tellhis mother. But he was like, I'm
just really, really sorry tohave to do this over the phone.
And I was like, Where is he at?
Like Hope he's at the morgue. Hegot into an altercation with his
(05:49):
roommate. They started yellingat each other back and forth.
And then it led to physicalfighting, which led to the
gentleman pulled a gun, put itto his chest shot and killed
him. Now, Justin didn't have anyguns or weapons. He said he felt
fear of his life, because Justinhad him up against a wall. And
(06:13):
so he, you know, he admitted toit. He was arrested that night.
But I was like, I This can't bereal. And I just kept asking
him. Where is he? And he justtold me he's at the morgue. And
you're gonna have to get a holdof the funeral home to to be
able to see him because of thepending investigation. Oh, my
gosh, oh, that was it. Andthat's when my whole world up to
(06:37):
that point completely changed,
Michelle (06:42):
of course.And I'm so sorry, Hope. You must have
experienced so many differentemotions because of the way
Justin's life was taken. Can youtalk about how you felt at that
time and your feelings about theother people involved?
Hope (06:57):
So angry as hell Frustrated with God I'm like,
Why didnt God intervene? Why?
Why does he intervene in somecircumstances and doesn't
intervene in others? And why didhe choose Justin, I was upset, I
was frustrated. I didn't knowwhat exactly happened, what led
up to it. And reading papers andnews, up until then, because it
(07:18):
was all over the news was like,there was a struggle for the
gun. There wasn't a struggle forthe guy. And there was, you
know, just all different kindsof things. I was so frustrated
and angry and mad. I was justlike, I don't know, how to
react. Something's so tragicthat I never had happened in my
(07:40):
life before. But I had justcomplete utter hatred and anger.
And then three to four monthslater, the guy files self
defense, because Justin had himup against a wall. And so he was
never indicted for murder. So I,of course, felt like on top of
(08:01):
that, like what happened wasunjustifiable. But then on top
of that, he was not going to payfor that. So I was so angry, of
course, growing angry.
Michelle (08:15):
So losing the child, as we both know, firsthand is as
bad as it gets. So can you tellus a little bit about what your
grief looked like back then andhow you began to process it?
Hope (08:26):
it. It was fog. And I know that everybody will get this
picture is like candle, waxmelting. Everything sort is
happening, that funeral, themeal, the crying that everything
sort of just melted together asthe way that I can describe it.
I really don't even know how Ifunctioned. Even just getting up
(08:49):
and getting in the shower ortalking to people, I just You
have no idea like, until you'rein there that what that function
is it's almost autopilot, but ina different way. Like if you're
sick, you're on autopilot kindof thing. But when you're in
green autopilot, it reallystarts taking over your full
tire thinking your mindseverything. So I was looking at
(09:12):
my work offered griefcounseling. So I started going
to a counselor. And I rememberwalking in to this counselor,
she's this little blonde that Ihad coats older than and I was
like, What is he going to teachme Right? And so she was the
biggest blessing because she gotme started with GriefShare,
which was a Christian basedgroup. And I was mad at God,
(09:35):
right? I couldn't understand whyhe took Justin and why he did it
to me, and we were good people,right? And she was like, just,
it's just trusting. And I wasvery uneducated about that at
the time. And I'm still veryuneducated about God. But that
was probably one of the bestthings that I ever did was to
walk through those doors to whatwas concrete here. And it really
(09:58):
wasn't about grief shareworkbook was being around other
people that were feeling thesame pain that I was feeling.
Michelle (10:08):
Yeah, it's comforting.
Yes. Oh, yes. Yeah.Well, I'm soglad you found GriefShare, and
that you gave it a chance andultimately found comfort in
talking with the other peoplethere. But you said you were
angry at God, which I completelyget. How were you able to
overcome that?
Hope (10:27):
So one of the things when I walked through that church, I
was very hateful, and I had achip on my shoulder, and I
remember walking, arms crossed,like thinking, I don't know what
you're gonna say to me or makeme feel better. But whatever,
give it your best shot, right?
And this beautiful lady namedEmily, she comes out and she
asked me my name, and I told hermy name. And she said, I'm so
(10:49):
glad you're here. Now. I'm like,whatever, right? You know, I'm
angry. And I'm in this church,and I'm walking down this
hallway, and there's nothing butlittle children's artwork. And
I'm like, How can I be mad andthis kind of situation, right?
So we get down to this longhallway, and she says, I'll be
right back. We'll check if thewho's all coming. And so I said,
(11:12):
Okay, so I'm sitting in there inthis little tiny chairs, right,
like these little beautifulchairs. And then I start
weeping. Because I'm thinking,Yeah, my son and kindergarten,
and all these beautiful picturesand those kinds of things. And
she comes back, and she says,Hope nobody else is coming. And
I'm like, Oh, no. So I'mthinking to myself, she's gonna
(11:34):
find out one, how mad I am tothat I'm very uneducated about
God. And I've got to tell thiswoman, you know how I'm gonna do
this. Right? Well, and I justtold her, I said, Emily, I am so
mad at God right now. I'm soangry. And she said he would
couldn't imagine you not. Andright. Then when she said that,
(11:55):
I was like, He's okay with mebeing angry. He's okay with
that. And she said, Absolutely,absolutely. He's okay. And so
then my, my shoulders began tosoften a little bit. And I
started to listen to her. Andone of the questions I said,
was, Emily, I can't I can't cry24/7. And I think I'm doing this
(12:18):
grief thing wrong. And she said,there's, there's no wrong way to
do grief. But I, so I went tothat grief group, she asked me
to come back. So I went back.
And then I went back, and therewas more people. And then I kept
going back. And I spent 13 weeksin this beautiful group learning
(12:42):
about God's learning about allthe things that I thought were
the right way or the wrong wayof grief was more like, just go
through it. Be in trust God. Soone of the things that happen,
I'm leaving this grief sharegroup when I am angry still,
(13:02):
like, I'm still frustrated, andI say out loud. God, why? What
do you want? For? What? What isthis purpose? Why are you Why
did you take Justin, why are youleading me to this grief group?
Why are you, you know, wantingme to know more about you? What
is all of this about? And Iheard the words Michelle. I'm
(13:25):
not kidding. And the radio in myhead, I don't know where the
words came from. But I've heardthe words be kind. Just be kind.
And I said, What? What does thatmean? You want me to be kind?
What does that mean? Like? Doesthat mean just be kind to
others? And that's my purpose.
I'm like, what does that mean?
And so over the course of thenext few months, I volunteered
(13:49):
and that helped. And I wentthrough grief groups, and a
shared and I have this one storywhere I'm enlightened or paying
it forward, and the cashiersname was Johnson, and I'm just
like, blown away. And so I waslearning that being kind not
only meant to other people thatmade me feel good. That sort of
(14:10):
took that little light of painaway, was also I need to start
being kind of myself. Yeah. Andwhen that happened, where the
grand jury wasn't going to beindicted, I figured out that God
knew I couldn't keep prolongingmy grief. And then it was a
closure. And that, as you know,trials and tribulations, they go
(14:33):
on and on and on. But thenthat's when I knew that I had
something bigger in mind, thangoing through this trial, and
reliving this over and overagain, and building that hatred,
that I had to take all thatnegative energy, and I had to
put it in kindness and joy, toshare not just in general with
(14:57):
my family, but with others thatI need it. And also I had to
forgive. I had to forgive thatperson rent took my son's life,
because he didn't care about me.
He wasn't thinking what's hedoing? He wasn't even thinking
about what Justin's doing. Ithink that's where it all
started was just those twowords.
Michelle (15:20):
That's amazing that you are at a point where you are
now able to communicate with Godabout your real emotions, and
also that you were able toconsider forgiveness. That's
huge. So what happened next? Howdid you decide that you would
use your experience to helpother people?
Hope (15:37):
So over the years, I've always wanted to like write a
book blog, I didn't know how toget that message out, because I
believe sharing your story is sopowerful. So COVID, hit in 2020.
And we were all on Zoom. And Iwas like, How can I reach people
that are going through thishorrific pandemic, that are
(15:58):
losing people, they're droppingpeople off at the hospitals,
they're not seeing them again,and they're not making it just
put another level on grief. AndI was like, I've got to do
something. This is the time. Andso I prayed. And I asked God, I
was like, Hey, give me the wordshelp me, what choice should I
do. And I remember, just writingall these words down. And grief
(16:20):
to hope was sort of born inthat. And it's a seven week
program. And we do it for onehour each week, I've done seven
sessions, I started a newsession in January. But it's
really it's open to anyonethat's grieving, no matter when
their grief is 13 years, 30years, three days, any type. And
(16:41):
what I mean by time I sayvariety, like anything that's,
that's it could be your parents,it could be grandma, it could be
mom, it could be son, it couldbe anybody. And we respect that
in our group, we always respectthat. And so the first week is
basically an introduction, sortof like my story. And I allow
people to introduce themselvesand tell their story that they
(17:02):
feel comfortable doing. So it'sall done virtually on Zoom. So
you could do it in your pajamas.
And then weeks two through five,we spell out the word grief. And
G is for gifted time we talkabout how time helps or harms
ours for received help. How doyou ask for help? How do you you
know, if you're not gettinghelp? How do you ask eyes for
(17:23):
inspiration, which usuallydoesn't go with grief, but I
find that you have to havesomething that gets you out of
bed each morning, you have tofind that inspiration, whatever
big, small, little, huge,whatever it is. And then E is
expectations. We talk about, youknow what people expect of us
(17:43):
what we expect from people.
Because even though we're ingrief, sometimes our
expectations aren't met. Andthen we have this frustration
with he should have known betterkind of thing. And then f is
feel everything. And that'sbasically we have like a bring
(18:04):
pictures, say their name, sharestories, what's their favorite
pizza topping? What's theirfavorite TV show? What would
they be doing? And it's yeah,it's amazing. And then the last
session is to vote. And that'sbasically, what do you want to
do now? Where do you want to go?
What do you want to do, and itmay be something as I just want
(18:24):
to go through their things, or Iwant to literally walk up to
their grave versus just sittingin the car. And so one of the
greatest outcomes just, we builtthis community, and we invite
anybody in everyone. And eventhough it's only seven weeks,
many of my participants comeback program after program after
(18:45):
program just to be around andshare their story because it's
so powerful. And we have a lot,a lot of information to provide.
Michelle (18:55):
I think it's so awesome that you're helping
people through those hardmilestones and difficult
transitions like going throughtheir personal belongings,
cleaning out their rooms andwalking up to their graves. No
one likes to talk about thatstuff. And you and I know that
it's our reality. So thank youfor creating a space for
Grievers to talk about what Icall the sacred things that
(19:19):
sadly, only we know about. Italked about this fall season
we're in now in the intro. And Iknow Justin passed away on
November 17th, just beforeThanksgiving, and we're in
November now. Hope does thisseason trigger any intense
emotions for you? And how do youdeal with them?
Hope (19:38):
So the first thing is giving. I didn't get out of bed.
It was like a week after Justinpassed Christmas. I didn't bring
a tree up. But then and then Hisbirthday was February so then I
was like okay, we need tocelebrate life and then I ended
up as I did for the funeralstarted taking care of everyone
else. And like the gave him hisbirthday. Instead of being all
(20:03):
about him, and sharing, and wedid share stories and things
like that. I felt like I spentthe whole day comforting others,
which was not what I wanted thisto be. And so I think this time,
November through February isprobably the hardest
emotionally. But I try to put itin perspective that I'm not
(20:26):
going to do anything I don'twant to do. I'm not going to
continue traditions just becausethere are traditions, because I
think you feel almost guilty ifyou don't do those traditions,
within the guilt worse when youfeel terrible, and it's not the
way you wanted to spend the day. No, I think one of the hardest
(20:51):
things is you have to really,and I just really started just
last year, I think it was lastyear, for the first time, I went
for a walk in a city that heloves. And then I ate the food
that he loved, and just didthings that was good times. And
and like this year, my plans areto decorate his grave for
(21:13):
Christmas, and just do what Iwant to do and not be forced
into those traditions. BecauseI'll be honest with you, it's
not. It's not hohoho MerryChristmas. And everything is the
same because it's completelychanged. And some of the times
(21:34):
when you're around family Iknow. You know the many people
experiences. Nobody wants totalk about it. Nobody wants to
talk about what happened. Nobodywants to talk about Justin when
I'm in the complete opposite.
I'm like, do you remember thatChristmas when Justin did this?
Or when or when Thanksgiving wasthis or that birthday party? And
so when you're around people,and it's sometimes it's you're
(21:55):
asked to be forgiving, but it'shard because you feel like, I
want to talk about him, butthey're like not uh, you know,
bring the holidays down low,right? And I'm like, that's not
what I'm trying to juggle. I'mtrying to make it better, right?
It's a hard time.
Michelle (22:14):
Yeah, I would say to those who are wondering what to
say to a Griever. During thistime, it's okay to say their
names and share stories aboutthem. We want to talk about our
kids. So hope having beenthrough such a difficult loss.
What are the big life lessonsyou learned that you can share
with another bereaved parent orother Griever today to give them
(22:37):
hope?
Hope (22:38):
Yeah, the first big lesson, and this was huge for me
was that time doesn't stop. Ican't buy time. And I always
felt like it was never going tosomething like that would never
happen to me. But on top of thatalways said that one day, one
day, I'll do this one day, I'lldo that. And one of the biggest
(23:00):
life lessons that I've learnedfrom Justin, it has to be day
one. It can't be one day, it hasto be day one. And so that's the
way I try to live my life. Like,I'm not waiting for Monday, I'm
not waiting for next year, todayis when it's going to happen.
And sometimes it may be a smallleap. But today is going to
start whatever I imaginechanging. And so sometimes it's
(23:24):
like, you know what, I'm havinga really bad day. Well, tomorrow
is day one, not next week, notwell, if I'm sad, I make it a
day. So if I'm having a reallybad day, I'm making a day versus
a week, a month, a year, sincethat's one of the thing and then
I heard this quote, one time. Sothe second lesson is what will
(23:47):
my dashing, you've two days, andthen you have that dash in the
middle. So I'm only gonna liveand Justin only lived it, we
have that little dash that thathas to, you know, tell your
story. And so that's what I'mdoing. I'm building a legacy for
me and Justin, and I'm sharingour story. And I'll tell it as
(24:09):
many times as, as possible tosomeone that may need to hear
it. Because I don't know whothat is. And I want to honor my
son by helping and supportingothers and let grieving parents
know that use this devastationas fuel for your determination.
And I know in the midst of this,it's not that way. But trust me
(24:32):
that like Justin is my numberone fan. He's up there rooting
me on and I have to live forboth of us now. So I have to
live my life and I have to honorhim by living with inspiration
and hope and commitment to neverwaste a single moment of telling
my story and sharing it becauseit could touch so many people
(24:56):
but then you can also inspire somany because that's The whole
point of grief to hope is to letpeople know that it's horrible,
and it's awful. And grief is notfine. And I get it, and I
understand it, and it's raw andin your face. But there comes a
point in your time where you canchange that soakers into
(25:18):
something that you'll find ismeaningful and honoring. And
that I promise you will help youheal, I promise and well,
they'll be patients. And alsofocus on something that you
think would be meaningful forthem. So you're honoring them in
(25:39):
whatever way shape or form thatairs allow that to come through
awesome, never regret. And so Itell that to everybody that I
talked to you like if he said,What if I would have answered
the phone? Because Justin calledme that night? And I didn't
answer the phone. I was on myway to the movies. And I thought
he needs money or something,whatever. And I said, if it's
(26:00):
important to have on your back,and he never did. And so I told
like everybody, what if I wouldhave answered that call? What if
I would have done this? What ifI went? So what if I would have
answered that call, and we gotinto an argument, we said
something nasty, and that wouldhave been the last conversation
I had with him. Even thoughthere may have been
(26:21):
circumstances where we didn'tget the chance to say goodbye. I
felt like when I gave my eulogy,and talking to him on a day to
day, that's my that's that wasmy way of saying goodbye was the
eulogy. But just that every dayconversation, you know that I
talk to you about the grave, orjust in general, that what is
are powerful, but don't everregret anything and take chances
(26:45):
and live. And I know that whenyou lose a child, that that can
force you sometimes to go intothat darkness and stay there.
But one of the things that I'velearned is that it helps me to
keep moving forward and to keepfinding that that's something
(27:06):
that honors my son in a way thatjust brings light and hope and
joy to me that I never thoughtI'd experience ever again.
Michelle (27:20):
I'm so glad that you decided to use your experience
to help other people with yoursupport group. And in writing
your book. If listeners want toattend the group or get a copy
of your book, where can they goto get more information.
Hope (27:33):
So you can find all of the information on
www.grief2hopesupport.com thathas a link to our series, you
can ask me, you can email methrough that website. If you
have any questions or concernsabout the series, how it works.
It also talks about the seriesand what we go through. It has a
(27:54):
link to my book, which is griefto help you can get through
Amazon, which is sort of mymemoir that talks all the way
from the beginning to where I amtoday. And that can be found on
the website as well as abeautiful picture of my son. And
a little bio of him is on thatwebsite as well. So you know how
we love to talk about our kidsand showcase them. So I
Michelle (28:19):
Hope you've shared so many good lessons with us today
that you could have only learnedthrough Justin's passing. You're
such a strong and resilientperson. And I love your attitude
and determination to paykindness forward, like you said.
So I just want to say thank youfor agreeing to come on the
podcast and share this importantmessage.
Hope (28:39):
It's been my pleasure. And please please reach out for
anything that I can help withthem in future.
Michelle (28:45):
Thanks again. So for those of you listening, I hope
you're inspired by hearing thisstory. Hope had to endure such a
painful loss. But she found thelessons to be learned and the
beauty in sharing them with usso that we can realize that we
too can overcome our losses.
During this holiday season, Ipray that you too will be
(29:08):
strengthened by knowing thatyou're not alone in your grief.
With faith and love. You too canovercome emerge stronger. And
one day you too will be able tohelp someone else with the
lessons you learned in yourloss. Thanks for listening
Well, hey there, and welcome back to the show my
friend. You're listening toQualified, the place where
incredible people share theirstories of overcoming great
adversity and loss to inspireyou and give you hope. I'm
Michelle Heaton, and I'm so gladyou're here. Well, it's November
already, and the holidays willbe upon us soon. And for those
(00:34):
grieving losses, this can be anespecially difficult time of the
year. So let's take a littletimeout today and replace any
sadness or negative thoughtswith positivity and hope. I know
my guest today will help us getthere. She has been through
great adversity in her life.
Having lost her 19 year old sonsuddenly and under tragic
(00:55):
circumstances. She not onlysurvived a parent's worst
nightmare, but she got back up,regained her strength and
created a virtual grief supportgroup that she currently
facilitates to help othergrieving people. She's also a
speaker and an author who justreleased her first book, grief
to hope in which she shares herstory, and provides incredible
(01:20):
inspiration to the reader. Hername is Hope Reger. And it's my
great privilege to have her asmy guest today. Welcome to
Qualified Hope.
Hope (01:31):
Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure to be
here.
Michelle (01:35):
Great. Hope,I know your story is a painful one. So
thank you so much for agreeingto talk about it with us today.
Can you start by telling us whathappened that led to your son
Justin's passing?
Hope (01:51):
Absolutely. So in 2015, I decided to take a leap of faith
and try a new job in a new role.
In a new study, I had just gonethrough divorce with my first
husband, and I was ready forchange. So I moved from my
hometown from Xenia, Ohio toColumbus, Ohio. And Justin at
(02:11):
the time was 18. And then myolder son had started building
his life. And so he had got hisown home and building his
family. And so Justin, as atypical 18 year old was like,
Mom, I don't want to leave myfriends. So he went back and
forth between me and his friendsstaying with them. He'd stay
(02:33):
with mom when he needed food andcomfort. But he also knew that
meant getting a job, and workingand doing chores, that while
staying with friends, it wassort of like a vacation so he
teetered back and forth fromthat. Then in September of 2016,
he decided he was going to finda roommate in our hometown. So
(02:53):
he met up with a friend of afriend that was looking for a
roommate and then it ended upbeing three gentlemen sharing a
house. And so I never met thesegentlemen, and I never knew who
they were. But Justin was soexcited to have his own place
his own livelihood, he was gonnaget it, you know, a really
(03:14):
steady job work real hard. And Iwas proud of him. I was like,
Okay, you're on your own. You're19. Now you're, you're doing
you. So a couple months, wetalked every day. And sometimes
it was Mom, I need money. Andsometimes it was mom, I just
needed to talk. But we talkedpretty much every single day.
And so on November 17. At 630 inthe morning, I got a knock on
(03:41):
the door. And it was a pounding.
It wasn't really a knock on thedoor. And at the time I lived in
a condo, so I was upstairs. AndI thought, No, this can't be
good, right? And so I lookeddown and there's two police
officers standing there. And Ithought to myself, the first
thing that I thought of was whatis that child done? Yeah, I
(04:02):
don't know why that thought. ButI was thinking it couldn't be
something horrible. It just hadto be like, Oh, Justin's done
something crazy. He doesn't knowhow to get a hold of me. He's
lost his phone. Yeah, everythingwas going through my mind as I'm
walking down the stairs. So Ianswered this door, and they
asked me if I'm Justin's mom.
And I was like, Yeah. Then theyasked me if I could call a
(04:22):
number and a name that they hadgiven me on a piece of paper,
like a post it note. And I waslike, Well, do you know what
this is about? And they're like,No, we don't know what this is
about. You just need to callthem they've been trying to
reach you. Well, of course, mythought is, if it did something
serious, they would tell youlike you see on TV, see in the
(04:43):
movies, you see that? And theyacted like they didn't know what
it was about. So I called andthe person on the line said
Greene County Coroner. Oh mygosh. And so I of course as a
mother was like What? And Isaid, I'm sorry, I must have the
wrong number I literally saidthis. I, I was given this name
(05:05):
by a police officer. I live inColumbus. And he was like, Are
you Justin's mother? I said,Yes. And he said, I'm so sorry
to do this over the phone hesaid Justin has passed. And, I
said what are you talking about?
(05:27):
I just need to get to him andfix it. Whatever's going on.
Let's just fix it. Tell me wherehe is, you know, and he was
like, I'm so so sorry. And youcould just tell he was
devastated. And he had to tellhis mother. But he was like, I'm
just really, really sorry tohave to do this over the phone.
And I was like, Where is he at?
Like Hope he's at the morgue. Hegot into an altercation with his
(05:49):
roommate. They started yellingat each other back and forth.
And then it led to physicalfighting, which led to the
gentleman pulled a gun, put itto his chest shot and killed
him. Now, Justin didn't have anyguns or weapons. He said he felt
fear of his life, because Justinhad him up against a wall. And
(06:13):
so he, you know, he admitted toit. He was arrested that night.
But I was like, I This can't bereal. And I just kept asking
him. Where is he? And he justtold me he's at the morgue. And
you're gonna have to get a holdof the funeral home to to be
able to see him because of thepending investigation. Oh, my
gosh, oh, that was it. Andthat's when my whole world up to
(06:37):
that point completely changed,
Michelle (06:42):
of course.And I'm so sorry, Hope. You must have
experienced so many differentemotions because of the way
Justin's life was taken. Can youtalk about how you felt at that
time and your feelings about theother people involved?
Hope (06:57):
So angry as hell Frustrated with God I'm like,
Why didnt God intervene? Why?
Why does he intervene in somecircumstances and doesn't
intervene in others? And why didhe choose Justin, I was upset, I
was frustrated. I didn't knowwhat exactly happened, what led
up to it. And reading papers andnews, up until then, because it
(07:18):
was all over the news was like,there was a struggle for the
gun. There wasn't a struggle forthe guy. And there was, you
know, just all different kindsof things. I was so frustrated
and angry and mad. I was justlike, I don't know, how to
react. Something's so tragicthat I never had happened in my
(07:40):
life before. But I had justcomplete utter hatred and anger.
And then three to four monthslater, the guy files self
defense, because Justin had himup against a wall. And so he was
never indicted for murder. So I,of course, felt like on top of
(08:01):
that, like what happened wasunjustifiable. But then on top
of that, he was not going to payfor that. So I was so angry, of
course, growing angry.
Michelle (08:15):
So losing the child, as we both know, firsthand is as
bad as it gets. So can you tellus a little bit about what your
grief looked like back then andhow you began to process it?
Hope (08:26):
it. It was fog. And I know that everybody will get this
picture is like candle, waxmelting. Everything sort is
happening, that funeral, themeal, the crying that everything
sort of just melted together asthe way that I can describe it.
I really don't even know how Ifunctioned. Even just getting up
(08:49):
and getting in the shower ortalking to people, I just You
have no idea like, until you'rein there that what that function
is it's almost autopilot, but ina different way. Like if you're
sick, you're on autopilot kindof thing. But when you're in
green autopilot, it reallystarts taking over your full
tire thinking your mindseverything. So I was looking at
(09:12):
my work offered griefcounseling. So I started going
to a counselor. And I rememberwalking in to this counselor,
she's this little blonde that Ihad coats older than and I was
like, What is he going to teachme Right? And so she was the
biggest blessing because she gotme started with GriefShare,
which was a Christian basedgroup. And I was mad at God,
(09:35):
right? I couldn't understand whyhe took Justin and why he did it
to me, and we were good people,right? And she was like, just,
it's just trusting. And I wasvery uneducated about that at
the time. And I'm still veryuneducated about God. But that
was probably one of the bestthings that I ever did was to
walk through those doors to whatwas concrete here. And it really
(09:58):
wasn't about grief shareworkbook was being around other
people that were feeling thesame pain that I was feeling.
Michelle (10:08):
Yeah, it's comforting.
Yes. Oh, yes. Yeah.Well, I'm soglad you found GriefShare, and
that you gave it a chance andultimately found comfort in
talking with the other peoplethere. But you said you were
angry at God, which I completelyget. How were you able to
overcome that?
Hope (10:27):
So one of the things when I walked through that church, I
was very hateful, and I had achip on my shoulder, and I
remember walking, arms crossed,like thinking, I don't know what
you're gonna say to me or makeme feel better. But whatever,
give it your best shot, right?
And this beautiful lady namedEmily, she comes out and she
asked me my name, and I told hermy name. And she said, I'm so
(10:49):
glad you're here. Now. I'm like,whatever, right? You know, I'm
angry. And I'm in this church,and I'm walking down this
hallway, and there's nothing butlittle children's artwork. And
I'm like, How can I be mad andthis kind of situation, right?
So we get down to this longhallway, and she says, I'll be
right back. We'll check if thewho's all coming. And so I said,
(11:12):
Okay, so I'm sitting in there inthis little tiny chairs, right,
like these little beautifulchairs. And then I start
weeping. Because I'm thinking,Yeah, my son and kindergarten,
and all these beautiful picturesand those kinds of things. And
she comes back, and she says,Hope nobody else is coming. And
I'm like, Oh, no. So I'mthinking to myself, she's gonna
(11:34):
find out one, how mad I am tothat I'm very uneducated about
God. And I've got to tell thiswoman, you know how I'm gonna do
this. Right? Well, and I justtold her, I said, Emily, I am so
mad at God right now. I'm soangry. And she said he would
couldn't imagine you not. Andright. Then when she said that,
(11:55):
I was like, He's okay with mebeing angry. He's okay with
that. And she said, Absolutely,absolutely. He's okay. And so
then my, my shoulders began tosoften a little bit. And I
started to listen to her. Andone of the questions I said,
was, Emily, I can't I can't cry24/7. And I think I'm doing this
(12:18):
grief thing wrong. And she said,there's, there's no wrong way to
do grief. But I, so I went tothat grief group, she asked me
to come back. So I went back.
And then I went back, and therewas more people. And then I kept
going back. And I spent 13 weeksin this beautiful group learning
(12:42):
about God's learning about allthe things that I thought were
the right way or the wrong wayof grief was more like, just go
through it. Be in trust God. Soone of the things that happen,
I'm leaving this grief sharegroup when I am angry still,
(13:02):
like, I'm still frustrated, andI say out loud. God, why? What
do you want? For? What? What isthis purpose? Why are you Why
did you take Justin, why are youleading me to this grief group?
Why are you, you know, wantingme to know more about you? What
is all of this about? And Iheard the words Michelle. I'm
(13:25):
not kidding. And the radio in myhead, I don't know where the
words came from. But I've heardthe words be kind. Just be kind.
And I said, What? What does thatmean? You want me to be kind?
What does that mean? Like? Doesthat mean just be kind to
others? And that's my purpose.
I'm like, what does that mean?
And so over the course of thenext few months, I volunteered
(13:49):
and that helped. And I wentthrough grief groups, and a
shared and I have this one storywhere I'm enlightened or paying
it forward, and the cashiersname was Johnson, and I'm just
like, blown away. And so I waslearning that being kind not
only meant to other people thatmade me feel good. That sort of
(14:10):
took that little light of painaway, was also I need to start
being kind of myself. Yeah. Andwhen that happened, where the
grand jury wasn't going to beindicted, I figured out that God
knew I couldn't keep prolongingmy grief. And then it was a
closure. And that, as you know,trials and tribulations, they go
(14:33):
on and on and on. But thenthat's when I knew that I had
something bigger in mind, thangoing through this trial, and
reliving this over and overagain, and building that hatred,
that I had to take all thatnegative energy, and I had to
put it in kindness and joy, toshare not just in general with
(14:57):
my family, but with others thatI need it. And also I had to
forgive. I had to forgive thatperson rent took my son's life,
because he didn't care about me.
He wasn't thinking what's hedoing? He wasn't even thinking
about what Justin's doing. Ithink that's where it all
started was just those twowords.
Michelle (15:20):
That's amazing that you are at a point where you are
now able to communicate with Godabout your real emotions, and
also that you were able toconsider forgiveness. That's
huge. So what happened next? Howdid you decide that you would
use your experience to helpother people?
Hope (15:37):
So over the years, I've always wanted to like write a
book blog, I didn't know how toget that message out, because I
believe sharing your story is sopowerful. So COVID, hit in 2020.
And we were all on Zoom. And Iwas like, How can I reach people
that are going through thishorrific pandemic, that are
(15:58):
losing people, they're droppingpeople off at the hospitals,
they're not seeing them again,and they're not making it just
put another level on grief. AndI was like, I've got to do
something. This is the time. Andso I prayed. And I asked God, I
was like, Hey, give me the wordshelp me, what choice should I
do. And I remember, just writingall these words down. And grief
(16:20):
to hope was sort of born inthat. And it's a seven week
program. And we do it for onehour each week, I've done seven
sessions, I started a newsession in January. But it's
really it's open to anyonethat's grieving, no matter when
their grief is 13 years, 30years, three days, any type. And
(16:41):
what I mean by time I sayvariety, like anything that's,
that's it could be your parents,it could be grandma, it could be
mom, it could be son, it couldbe anybody. And we respect that
in our group, we always respectthat. And so the first week is
basically an introduction, sortof like my story. And I allow
people to introduce themselvesand tell their story that they
(17:02):
feel comfortable doing. So it'sall done virtually on Zoom. So
you could do it in your pajamas.
And then weeks two through five,we spell out the word grief. And
G is for gifted time we talkabout how time helps or harms
ours for received help. How doyou ask for help? How do you you
know, if you're not gettinghelp? How do you ask eyes for
(17:23):
inspiration, which usuallydoesn't go with grief, but I
find that you have to havesomething that gets you out of
bed each morning, you have tofind that inspiration, whatever
big, small, little, huge,whatever it is. And then E is
expectations. We talk about, youknow what people expect of us
(17:43):
what we expect from people.
Because even though we're ingrief, sometimes our
expectations aren't met. Andthen we have this frustration
with he should have known betterkind of thing. And then f is
feel everything. And that'sbasically we have like a bring
(18:04):
pictures, say their name, sharestories, what's their favorite
pizza topping? What's theirfavorite TV show? What would
they be doing? And it's yeah,it's amazing. And then the last
session is to vote. And that'sbasically, what do you want to
do now? Where do you want to go?
What do you want to do, and itmay be something as I just want
(18:24):
to go through their things, or Iwant to literally walk up to
their grave versus just sittingin the car. And so one of the
greatest outcomes just, we builtthis community, and we invite
anybody in everyone. And eventhough it's only seven weeks,
many of my participants comeback program after program after
(18:45):
program just to be around andshare their story because it's
so powerful. And we have a lot,a lot of information to provide.
Michelle (18:55):
I think it's so awesome that you're helping
people through those hardmilestones and difficult
transitions like going throughtheir personal belongings,
cleaning out their rooms andwalking up to their graves. No
one likes to talk about thatstuff. And you and I know that
it's our reality. So thank youfor creating a space for
Grievers to talk about what Icall the sacred things that
(19:19):
sadly, only we know about. Italked about this fall season
we're in now in the intro. And Iknow Justin passed away on
November 17th, just beforeThanksgiving, and we're in
November now. Hope does thisseason trigger any intense
emotions for you? And how do youdeal with them?
Hope (19:38):
So the first thing is giving. I didn't get out of bed.
It was like a week after Justinpassed Christmas. I didn't bring
a tree up. But then and then Hisbirthday was February so then I
was like okay, we need tocelebrate life and then I ended
up as I did for the funeralstarted taking care of everyone
else. And like the gave him hisbirthday. Instead of being all
(20:03):
about him, and sharing, and wedid share stories and things
like that. I felt like I spentthe whole day comforting others,
which was not what I wanted thisto be. And so I think this time,
November through February isprobably the hardest
emotionally. But I try to put itin perspective that I'm not
(20:26):
going to do anything I don'twant to do. I'm not going to
continue traditions just becausethere are traditions, because I
think you feel almost guilty ifyou don't do those traditions,
within the guilt worse when youfeel terrible, and it's not the
way you wanted to spend the day. No, I think one of the hardest
(20:51):
things is you have to really,and I just really started just
last year, I think it was lastyear, for the first time, I went
for a walk in a city that heloves. And then I ate the food
that he loved, and just didthings that was good times. And
and like this year, my plans areto decorate his grave for
(21:13):
Christmas, and just do what Iwant to do and not be forced
into those traditions. BecauseI'll be honest with you, it's
not. It's not hohoho MerryChristmas. And everything is the
same because it's completelychanged. And some of the times
(21:34):
when you're around family Iknow. You know the many people
experiences. Nobody wants totalk about it. Nobody wants to
talk about what happened. Nobodywants to talk about Justin when
I'm in the complete opposite.
I'm like, do you remember thatChristmas when Justin did this?
Or when or when Thanksgiving wasthis or that birthday party? And
so when you're around people,and it's sometimes it's you're
(21:55):
asked to be forgiving, but it'shard because you feel like, I
want to talk about him, butthey're like not uh, you know,
bring the holidays down low,right? And I'm like, that's not
what I'm trying to juggle. I'mtrying to make it better, right?
It's a hard time.
Michelle (22:14):
Yeah, I would say to those who are wondering what to
say to a Griever. During thistime, it's okay to say their
names and share stories aboutthem. We want to talk about our
kids. So hope having beenthrough such a difficult loss.
What are the big life lessonsyou learned that you can share
with another bereaved parent orother Griever today to give them
(22:37):
hope?
Hope (22:38):
Yeah, the first big lesson, and this was huge for me
was that time doesn't stop. Ican't buy time. And I always
felt like it was never going tosomething like that would never
happen to me. But on top of thatalways said that one day, one
day, I'll do this one day, I'lldo that. And one of the biggest
(23:00):
life lessons that I've learnedfrom Justin, it has to be day
one. It can't be one day, it hasto be day one. And so that's the
way I try to live my life. Like,I'm not waiting for Monday, I'm
not waiting for next year, todayis when it's going to happen.
And sometimes it may be a smallleap. But today is going to
start whatever I imaginechanging. And so sometimes it's
(23:24):
like, you know what, I'm havinga really bad day. Well, tomorrow
is day one, not next week, notwell, if I'm sad, I make it a
day. So if I'm having a reallybad day, I'm making a day versus
a week, a month, a year, sincethat's one of the thing and then
I heard this quote, one time. Sothe second lesson is what will
(23:47):
my dashing, you've two days, andthen you have that dash in the
middle. So I'm only gonna liveand Justin only lived it, we
have that little dash that thathas to, you know, tell your
story. And so that's what I'mdoing. I'm building a legacy for
me and Justin, and I'm sharingour story. And I'll tell it as
(24:09):
many times as, as possible tosomeone that may need to hear
it. Because I don't know whothat is. And I want to honor my
son by helping and supportingothers and let grieving parents
know that use this devastationas fuel for your determination.
And I know in the midst of this,it's not that way. But trust me
(24:32):
that like Justin is my numberone fan. He's up there rooting
me on and I have to live forboth of us now. So I have to
live my life and I have to honorhim by living with inspiration
and hope and commitment to neverwaste a single moment of telling
my story and sharing it becauseit could touch so many people
(24:56):
but then you can also inspire somany because that's The whole
point of grief to hope is to letpeople know that it's horrible,
and it's awful. And grief is notfine. And I get it, and I
understand it, and it's raw andin your face. But there comes a
point in your time where you canchange that soakers into
(25:18):
something that you'll find ismeaningful and honoring. And
that I promise you will help youheal, I promise and well,
they'll be patients. And alsofocus on something that you
think would be meaningful forthem. So you're honoring them in
(25:39):
whatever way shape or form thatairs allow that to come through
awesome, never regret. And so Itell that to everybody that I
talked to you like if he said,What if I would have answered
the phone? Because Justin calledme that night? And I didn't
answer the phone. I was on myway to the movies. And I thought
he needs money or something,whatever. And I said, if it's
(26:00):
important to have on your back,and he never did. And so I told
like everybody, what if I wouldhave answered that call? What if
I would have done this? What ifI went? So what if I would have
answered that call, and we gotinto an argument, we said
something nasty, and that wouldhave been the last conversation
I had with him. Even thoughthere may have been
(26:21):
circumstances where we didn'tget the chance to say goodbye. I
felt like when I gave my eulogy,and talking to him on a day to
day, that's my that's that wasmy way of saying goodbye was the
eulogy. But just that every dayconversation, you know that I
talk to you about the grave, orjust in general, that what is
are powerful, but don't everregret anything and take chances
(26:45):
and live. And I know that whenyou lose a child, that that can
force you sometimes to go intothat darkness and stay there.
But one of the things that I'velearned is that it helps me to
keep moving forward and to keepfinding that that's something
(27:06):
that honors my son in a way thatjust brings light and hope and
joy to me that I never thoughtI'd experience ever again.
Michelle (27:20):
I'm so glad that you decided to use your experience
to help other people with yoursupport group. And in writing
your book. If listeners want toattend the group or get a copy
of your book, where can they goto get more information.
Hope (27:33):
So you can find all of the information on
www.grief2hopesupport.com thathas a link to our series, you
can ask me, you can email methrough that website. If you
have any questions or concernsabout the series, how it works.
It also talks about the seriesand what we go through. It has a
(27:54):
link to my book, which is griefto help you can get through
Amazon, which is sort of mymemoir that talks all the way
from the beginning to where I amtoday. And that can be found on
the website as well as abeautiful picture of my son. And
a little bio of him is on thatwebsite as well. So you know how
we love to talk about our kidsand showcase them. So I
Michelle (28:19):
Hope you've shared so many good lessons with us today
that you could have only learnedthrough Justin's passing. You're
such a strong and resilientperson. And I love your attitude
and determination to paykindness forward, like you said.
So I just want to say thank youfor agreeing to come on the
podcast and share this importantmessage.
Hope (28:39):
It's been my pleasure. And please please reach out for
anything that I can help withthem in future.
Michelle (28:45):
Thanks again. So for those of you listening, I hope
you're inspired by hearing thisstory. Hope had to endure such a
painful loss. But she found thelessons to be learned and the
beauty in sharing them with usso that we can realize that we
too can overcome our losses.
During this holiday season, Ipray that you too will be
(29:08):
strengthened by knowing thatyou're not alone in your grief.
With faith and love. You too canovercome emerge stronger. And
one day you too will be able tohelp someone else with the
lessons you learned in yourloss. Thanks for listening
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