March 17, 2023 • 35 mins
Following the death of his 16-year-old son and only child, Ron did everything he could to avoid facing the reality of his loss. Then one day, he was hit by a wave of emotions that he allowed himself to feel and as a result, the healing process began.
Listen in as Ron shares how he used his experience to write seven books, including the best-seller "Sometimes I Cry in the Shower."
https://rglennkelly.com
#bereaveddad #sometimesicryintheshower #fathersgrief #lossofanonlychild
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Episode Transcript
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Michelle (00:10):
Hey everybody and welcome back to Qualified, the
place where incredible peopleshare their stories of
overcoming great adversity andloss to inspire you and give you
hope. I'm Michelle Heaton. Thedeath of a child that has been
recognized as one of the mostchallenging and traumatic events
for a parent. No matter thechild's age or cause of death,
(00:35):
the devastation that follows isharsh and real, and leaves a
lasting impact. But the loss ofan only child carries with it
its own category of grief.
Losing an only child meanslosing a part of your identity.
Your grief feels like love withnowhere to go. You mourn the
loss of their presence, and thejoy they brought you, as well as
(00:59):
your future hopes and dreams.
And you have no choice but topick up the broken pieces of
your heart and keep walking thepath of life without your kid.
Those are the thoughts andrealizations that have tumbled
about in my mind for the last 10years since losing my teenage
(01:20):
son, and only child Sean in2013. Well, my guest today
completely understands the typeof grief I speak of. He too lost
a teenage son and only child in2013. And while he also knows
the hardship of walking the pathwith a limp, he's dedicated his
(01:43):
life since then to helpingothers move forward with
purpose. He's a best sellingauthor and speaker who provides
keynote addresses to groups ofbereaved employees at major
companies, including a five timeengagement with Delta Airlines.
He served on a board of advisorsat Children's Hospital and has
(02:03):
worked with some of thecountry's leading psychiatrists
and anthropologist to betterunderstand himself first, and
then his fellow Grievers. Hisname is R. Glenn Kelly. And it's
my pleasure to have him on theshow today. Welcome to
Qualified, Ron.
Ron (02:18):
Oh, hey, there, the welcome comes from me, I am so honored
to be here. I can't express thatenough. Thank you for having me
and given me the opportunity to,to see if I could could add
value to the incredible thingsyou're doing already.
Michelle (02:31):
Thank you, Ron.
Appreciate that. Well, let's getstarted first by talking about
your son, John, well, I want toknow a little bit about him, but
also about this rare congenitalheart defect
Ron (02:45):
I love talking about John John was born in 1997. You know,
I was getting a little long inthe tooth. And John came along
later in life. I was 35 when Ihad John. And he was my only
child, I spent time both in theMarine Corps and as a police
officer before that in, youknow, career came first before
thoughts of family. And suddenlyJohn came along in the world.
(03:06):
And to realize I was going to bea father meant that I was
falling in line with some of thethings that were supposed to
happen in my life, which becomesimportant later on. There's a
set things in life, I think weall have developed in sort of a
blueprint that we realize thatwe're going to construct as we
build our mansions. John camealong. And on the very first day
(03:28):
of his life, the doctors walkedinto the room and said John may
not make it through the night.
And it was kind of devastatingat that point. As you can
imagine, he had been as we wereexplained, he had been born with
a congenital heart defect, whichwas very rare, but not rare
enough called hypoplastic leftheart syndrome, which, in
layman's terms meant the leftside of his heart had failed to
(03:50):
develop in the womb. And he alsohad a rare blood type. So even
then, even though we hadn'tgotten into discussions about
heart transplant, which wouldhave been out of the question,
even his infancy age, then thedoctor said that there's little
hope. But this was in a fairlylocal hospital in Fairfax,
Virginia, they said there is theoption of transporting and right
(04:12):
away over to Children'sHospital. And they had barely
finished saying those words whenI repeated Children's Hospital,
let's go there now. So theypacked my wife and I out she had
actually gone to a C section.
There wasn't as you know,probably wasn't supposed to
leave for days. But they allowedme to put her in the car and
take her over to children's withus. And by the time we'd gotten
(04:33):
the Children's Hospital, he wassurrounded by people in white
coat is we paired to the glassin a doorway, and we noticed
that our child was in a table onthe center. And this consortium
of just white coats who all seemto move in unison moved around
the table around them until onebroke away and walked over to
the door and just opened thedoor a little bit and they said,
(04:56):
We think we can help close thedoor and you At that point, we
were devastated. But we had hopein our life. We had not any idea
what we're going through. Butlong story short, we went from
being told that our child mightnot make it through his first
day of life to having John for16 years, they rebuilt his heart
(05:18):
to function on two chambersonly.
Michelle (05:21):
Wow, that is amazing.
So that surgery saved his lifethat day. But what did they tell
you about how this new rebuiltheart would work? And how would
it impact John's life?
Ron (05:35):
The prognosis for John at that time, even though we knew
to be some medical interventionsalong the way during his life,
was that he would have a fulllife, his shortcomings would be
he didn't have the oxygensaturation that you and I have.
So he would tire easily. Withthe medical intervention, there
would be times where he would bedown for short periods of time
after they did somereconstructive work that needed
(05:56):
to be done small reconstructivework, but still, and we had no
expectations, I had noexpectations 16 years later to
John who would go in for andthere is nothing routine in the
medical field. But he would goin for what I would say is a
routine heart catheterizationjust for a sort of a checkup,
see how he's doing inside aroundthe heart. And he went through
(06:17):
the surgery well came out, hewas in recovery. And while he
was in recovery, his heartfailed, and Try as they might,
the medical staff on duty atthat time, could not recover,
John. And that was the day thatwe lost him here. And he went
back home.
Michelle (06:32):
I'm very sorry to hear that. And it actually takes me
back there in my mind to mysituation, and there's no words
to describe it. It's the worst.
So now, here you are faced withthe harsh reality that your son
John, your only child was gone.
What happened next there at thehospital? And what were the
(06:55):
thoughts going through your mindRon?
Ron (06:57):
Well, I had noticed right off the bat when when John
passed, I had the blessings. Andsome people don't understand
this. But I held John as he tookhis last breath. And I said out
loud, and I don't know where thewords came from. I will see you
again, it won't be soon. But Iwill see you again. And it's not
(07:19):
that I said, I'm going to standup and carry on with my life. I
didn't know at that point what Iwas going to do, I'm not sure if
you if I even thought about thewords that I said, but I left
there. And at the time I wasalone, when he passed, there
were shifts at the hospital.
Sometimes when you went in witha child who had a medical
condition, it was my shift tostay with John overnight while
he was in recovery. And when hepassed, it was three in the
(07:41):
morning. So I was alone. And thesecond half of our family was
not there at the time. So it wasjust it was just me. But I stood
up and I made the notificationof course, but I stood up and
wasn't really sure what I wasgoing to do. And all I knew is
that I drove straight from thereto the church, to see my pastor.
And I wasn't sure what I wasgoing to do at that point I went
(08:03):
home, I let a lot of what I nowconsidered to be my natural
wiring takeover. And it did anexcellent job as I look back on
that where I had. And it's it'sagain, one of those things that
some might not understand. WhenI say this, I had to blessings
of being busy at that point, Ihad to plan my son's funeral.
(08:25):
And as many know, I mean, youknow, the difference between
males and females, sometimeswe're systemize errs, and we're
mechanistic and we have to dothings and we have to move, we
can't sit still. One of theissues is control. And I knew I
could control the fact that myson if he was going to go back
then I was going to make surethat the honors for him were the
(08:46):
best that we could give him so Itook a lot of relegation in the
fact that I plan that while hismother was of course despondent,
in some ways, not capable ofdoing much understandable the
way she was wired to be. And Ifully accepted that and I, I
went past the funeral serviceson to life I had the opportunity
(09:08):
then to return to the workplaceway too soon.
Michelle (09:14):
So you say way too soon. It sounds as if you knew
it was too early to return towork. If that was the case, why
go back? Why not allow yourselfmore time to grieve?
Ron (09:26):
Because I had 1200 People that relied on me, and I had
1200 people that I couldcontrol. I could not control the
loss of my son but I know thatin my heart, subconsciously I
knew that I can go back to workand control what was going on.
Outside of work, I relegatedmyself to the garage workshop
where I was a amateur woodworkerand still am but amateur
(09:47):
woodworker. And I built Icontrolled if I wanted to
destroy I could destroy but Icould keep my mind from thinking
about what happened because mymind at that time wasn't ready
to accept what had happened.
Michelle (10:02):
Yeah, it's a hard thing to accept for sure. So how
long would you say you carriedon like this intentionally
staying busy to avoid facingthis new reality?
Ron (10:14):
It probably took about six months of me trying to purposely
defer my grief knowing that itwould come I was at wise it's
going to come I know that it isthat I was in the shower one
morning, getting ready for work.
And I had the radio on in theshower. And I heard that there
was a forecast I was inWashington, DC at the time,
(10:34):
there was a forecast for snow.
In my mind said, I wonder ifJohn's gonna have school today
if it's going to snow, and Irealized, I don't have John
anymore. And at that time, itlet go. all of it, let go. I
cried. I cried for about 10minutes. And then suddenly,
(10:55):
whether it is some weirdsynapses in my brain that
snapped or whether it really wasJohn, I felt him. I heard him. I
knew he was everywhere aroundme. So I said the only thing I
could say to him, which is Hi,baby. The only thing I heard
back was How dare you, dad? Howdare you not grieve me? How dare
(11:18):
you think you're not my fatheranymore? From that point on,
things changed. You know, therewere big. There were no big
trumpets. There was nothing likethat. But I mean, I decided I
was gonna go into a differentdirection. Was I ashamed of some
of the ways that I grieved?
Absolutely not. But I rememberinstances during the grieving
(11:38):
process earlier, where therewere people around me that
thought that I should go seesomebody. And I thought, well,
I'm okay. And then they said,Well, it's because you're okay
that you should go see somebody.
And I didn't, I didn'tunderstand that it didn't make
sense. And I wanted it to makesense. I wanted everything to
make sense. And then I heardthat from my my wife, that, you
(12:01):
know, there's a good chance thatyou didn't love our child
because you are not reacting ina way that you should be
reacted. And if that wasn't badenough, it only took a few times
of hearing that before I beganto wonder, did I not love my
child because I am notincapacitated because I am not
curled up in a fetal position onthe bed in complete remorse. And
(12:26):
that was one of the things thatafter the shower, I said, I have
got to understand why I wentthrough what I went through and
the way that I did. And thewonderful thing about it that
the most amazing thing was, Icame out after a few years of
really into a deep dive workingwith some amazing people that I
was okay. I was doing exactlywhat I was wired to do. I am me,
(12:50):
I have a uniqueness. And I'vealways said that as long as you
do not harm yourself or others,what you go through while
grieving is okay. Do it the waythat you do it.
Michelle (13:06):
I am so glad that you're sharing what your grief
looked like and the reactionfrom others because I'm sure
there's those listening rightnow who can also relate but
you're so right, there's noshame in how we grieve. There's
no right or wrong way. So let'stalk for a minute about the
death of an only child I'veshared before in other episodes
(13:28):
about how it feels to me, as amom, who no longer has her
child, tell us about some ofyour thoughts and realizations
about losing your only child is
Ron (13:40):
one of the big issues that that I had gone through when you
talk about the loss of a child.
But not only is it not thenatural order of things, but
it's also you don't know who youare anymore. You don't know who
your identity is. And I thoughtoh my god, I'm not even a father
anymore. I had a single childand he's gone. I'd been Marine,
I'd been a cop. I went on to bea federal agent, I had
(14:02):
identities that I had purposelyleft behind by my choice wasn't
my choice to leave behind theidentity of being a father. If
we go back to things that areblueprinted from, you know, days
of yours that did still residein our genes is we're, you know,
we're going to grow up, we'regoing to get married, we're
(14:22):
going to have a child, we aregoing to be great grandparents
and hopefully great grandparentsand then we're going to leave it
all behind for them. Losing achild is not the natural order
of things. And it's confusing,even on a subconscious level.
And when you're a single parent,when you lose a child like that
you lose your identity there fora while. Who am I now? Am I
(14:45):
still a parent? My gosh, I hadto tell myself that. Barbara and
Donald Kelly are still myparents, but they're not here
anymore. You know, I know you'veheard it before. Once a Marine
always a Marine And but I'm nolonger in the Corps. But I'm I'm
still identifying I who I amtoday is a part of Barbara and
(15:06):
Donald Kelly's influence on me,who I am today is part of the
influence of the Marine Corpshad on me, who I am largely
today is the influence of my sonJonathan Taylor Kelly had on me
and a lot of he put it into myheart. If I go back and tell you
that I was a jarhead. And I wasa cop, then it wouldn't surprise
(15:27):
you that I was one ego hungrysob that didn't care about
helping any other soul, eludingmyself. birth of a child changes
the death of a child disabled,it hones it, would not even
cover it. I care more about mybrother and sister now than then
(15:48):
I think I ever could have beforeI'd give it all back. I'd rather
go back to being an SOB if Icould have John back. But I
can't. So to give every day thatI can give to wake up in the
morning and hoping that I canimprove my life and somebody
else's life along with me iskind of a trade off from losing
(16:10):
that identity for even just amoment. Because sometimes you
have to see the dark to see thelight. Sometimes you have to
feel the pain to realize once apainted, gone away how wonderful
it is. You know, it's it's anamazing feeling. I want to help
you understand what I've said,give it back if I can't, so I
get this as a Don't yell at meas a consolation prize. And I'll
(16:36):
take it. It's a wonderfulfeeling. I wish there was a song
I think Tim McGraw, you know,live like you were dying, I
would have liked to have livedlike this before I lost John
Michelle (16:49):
I feel the same way.
We really do get a highereducation as a result of our
losses. And as hard as it is, wecan surely find good in it if we
live our lives in a new andbetter way as a result. So you
talked about that catharticmoment that took place in the
shower one day, and youultimately wrote a best selling
book called Sometimes I cry inthe shower. How did you make
(17:13):
that leap from what you weredoing in your career at that
time to becoming an author?
Ron (17:20):
So as I went through this process, at the time that I
lost, John, I was working with adefense contractor and I was
helping to write responses forfederal proposals, I was writing
bid responses for the USgovernment earning millions of
dollars for somebody through mywriting, I'd had the opportunity
to meet with some amazingpeople, one of them is one of
(17:42):
the most renowned professors ofplanetology, or the study of
death on the living. And as wesat down and talked, I just
realized that maybe if I couldwrite, to earn somebody's money,
maybe I could write to helpsomebody. And I had to convince
myself, I was at a point where Iwas okay. Which was easy,
(18:04):
because I knew even at thestart, as I look back, I was
okay, I was just processing itthe way that I was supposed to
process it. Long story short, isI sat down and I wrote my first
book, sometimes I cry in theshower. And the preface to that
book basically was you don'thave to change who you are, you
don't have to be ashamed of whoyou are. If you're not the type
that's going to express youremotions in front of somebody
else, that's fine. Just go do itthe way don't ignore them, don't
(18:27):
repress them just get stronger,it's going to come out. And it
was an amazing response that Igot back from people that one of
the first reaction was from thethen president of bereaved
parents of the USA, who hadbought a copy of my book. And
she called and introducedherself. And she goes, you know,
she goes, it's been 20 yearssince our loss. And I have
never, ever understood myhusband. And she goes now
(18:50):
because of your book, I realizedwhy he bugged the hell out of me
for the last 20 years. And it'sbecause there are if we talk
about the different sexes, maleversus female, and I do use more
verses, but I think you knowwhat I mean, I make it sound
like a competition, but it'snot. But if you look at the
differences in between us there,there, there are certain
(19:11):
tendencies that we're going tohave. And we have to allow
ourselves to have thosetendencies and we have to look
at the other and allow them tohave their tendencies as well.
Michelle (19:20):
So I think it's great that there's a book out there
that addresses this importantreality about how people grieve
in different ways. And I know alot of research went into that
project. But in addition to yourbook, you also started getting
some speaking invitations atthat time. What was it about
your message that made yousuddenly in high demand for
(19:40):
these events?
Ron (19:42):
I got invitations to come and speak and then invitations
to be on things like Trinitybroadcast network, and when I
stopped to ask why it wasamazing that the answer was
because you were a man who waswilling to stand up and say, it
hurts. And I said, well, ithurts so anything that I can
answer from that point asked me.
So there is one thing that ifanyone can take away from this
(20:05):
as a positive, there's nothingelse that could hurt us guys. I
mean, you know, I people ask mewhy I can stand up on stage and
not worry about making agoofball out of myself that what
else can happen to me it isworse in this world and losing
my child, right? Bring it, youknow, Judge me if you want to,
but the worst thing is behind menow.
Michelle (20:26):
I know that feeling.
You talked about Sometimes I cryin the shower. But I know you've
written a few other books. Howmany books have you written?
written seven now? Well, after
Ron (20:38):
Sometimes I cry in the shower, if I could tell you just
to make it brief, but it's afunny story. I mentioned I'd
been on Trinity broadcastnetwork, and I had to drive to
Chattanooga, to their televisionstation from where I was, and it
was about a four hour drive fromwhere I was staying at the time.
And I had finished theinterview. And during the
interview, the host keptrepeating the word grief, grief,
grief, grief, grief, grief,grief, and I stopped for a
(21:01):
second very tactfully said, I'dlike you to know that the grief
is not an emotion, you dorealize that grief is grief is
kind of the container word forall the emotions that are
wrapped up inside of thatfeeling. It's kind of like a box
and kind of like a It's kind oflike a case. It's kind of like a
grief case. So as we all dothat, and I know wonderful
podcasters do it too, that afteryou do a show. Sometimes you sit
(21:24):
back and go, What did I say? Howdid that come out? What was
that? So I'm driving in the carback and I thought, well, how
can I make people see the griefisn't an emotion, it's a it's a
container. And I thought griefcase is absolutely perfect for
it. But came out with my secondbook called The grief case,
which is a process of really,you know, removing redundant
(21:45):
feelings, false anger, falseguilt, getting the things that
are out of your system that justdon't need to be there while
you're going through his uglyprocess and moving forward. And
it became a pretty good book,it's a good concept. Then I sort
of turned my attention towardsthe workplace. When I lost John,
I had probably half a dozenmanagers who reported to me
(22:06):
every day, and they used to comesee me every morning, and I
would get a lot of productivityout of this visit in the
morning. And then I lost Johnand came back to work. And those
managers didn't stop by my dooranymore, because they were not
comfortable and confronting me.
And I thought to myself, youknow, there's a pretty big dip
in productivity right there initself. What are the impacts? So
I wrote some some documents outabout grief in the workplace, I
(22:31):
got invited to speak at DeltaAirlines, which is fantastic. I
still go there every year. I'mtheir only keynote speaker every
year when they fly in bereavedemployees from around the
country to headquarters. But itgot me down that avenue. And I
wrote one book, that was griefin the workplace, it's for the
employer. And then I wrote onecalled Taking your grief case to
work, which is basically for theemployee that goes back to work
(22:54):
after that. Wow. And then I wentI went as every author does
said, I think I'm getting prettygood at writing. So I wrote a
fiction. And it turned out to bepretty good. I named it
Thursday's into grado, and it'sabout a family that goes to the
loss. And yeah, sometimes we wemirror ourselves in our books.
So it was a loss of a son. Andthe processes of getting through
(23:17):
that in sort of, if you will,and a little bit of action, a
little bit of romance, a littlebit of things that you would
find in a fiction book. Wow. Andthen last but not least, is
digested a broken road traveler,which is kind of breaks away
from the grief itself and getsmore into. We all travel a
broken Road, let's look at 52ways that we can stop and
reground ourselves to rediscoverourselves, number one, and
(23:41):
rediscover our faith.
Michelle (23:44):
Yes, and thank you for sending that book to me. I read
through it in like one evening,and I thought it was so
beautiful. And I can't wait todig into some of the other ones.
So Ron, when you and I talkedbefore, we both agreed that good
things can actually come fromall the hardship we've been
through. So can you just take aminute and share your thoughts
(24:04):
about purpose as it relates toyour situation?
Ron (24:08):
There is a spark that I allowed in my soul to always
tell me there's a reason why I'mhere. Before John passed, there
was a period in our life wherehe and I were both drawn to the
church. And I take that I lookback on it. Now maybe that was a
preparation in a way where wehad not just, you know, Sunday
visits, we had completeinvolvement with the church. And
(24:31):
because of that, I always feltthat I had a purpose here.
There's a reason I still feellike that's the reason why you
were there's a reason why Johnwas here. And I think I told you
before we spoke previously, youknow, it's 16 years and you will
agree with me if if I were giventhe chance to do it all again.
And I was told it's just goingto be 16 years. I would do it
(24:52):
again. Yeah, that to me was mypurpose. With John I knew
immediately when I had him inyou relate to this to
unconditional love.
Unconditional loved I had neverfelt before. You know the old
adage, get your Do you hearthat? You know, I'm a cop. I'll
take a bullet for you. Now, wetrained not to take a bullet for
you. Right? My son, you don'tknow, how many times did I
(25:13):
prayed? Take me instead? Becausehe led me having open heart
surgery isn't they said, this isa rough one. You might not make
it through this, we'll all haveto pray to make sure you know,
just from an open heart surgerythat you survived. I had never
felt that kind of commitmentbefore love wouldn't trade it
for the world? I would not.
Michelle (25:33):
Yeah, I can relate to that. We're on let me let me ask
you this question. Because bothof us are at the 10 year point.
And that seems like a long timein terms of time right to most
people. And your life isdifferent. Now what you do your
work is completely differentnow. Have you ever been told by
(25:55):
anyone? You know, what are youdoing? It's been 10 years move
on do something else? And if so,how do you react to that? That
what I do
Ron (26:04):
now is a pride thing. And I think that the for anyone that
is early in this process is justgetting on the path that we're
walking down, they have torealize that there will come a
time where you'd be proud totalk about the love you I'm
proud to talk about John, I'vetalked about John as often as I
can. And if somebody doesn'tlike it, they don't like it.
John was an influence on mygrief at the time. John remains
(26:28):
a major influence in my lifetoday. But he does not drive my
life in a negative way. Hedrives it in a positive way. The
ugly thoughts that I still have,I still grieve, I still hurt if
I didn't hurt I would be amonster. If I if I didn't have
that longing and yearning tohold my child again, I would be
(26:49):
an absolute hideous man. But I'mnot gonna let it ruin my day.
I'm not gonna let it lead mylife, I'll pick the good parts
of it know that, you know, Italked to John Lott, I still get
the benefits of knowing he'saround, he influences my day,
every day, there was a timewhere I thought I was gonna get
in trouble with our makerbecause I was talking to John
more than I was talking to him.
Sometimes I enjoy talking abouthim. If people say I need to
(27:12):
move on and think about adifferent subject, why? He
doesn't, it's not my day doesn'ttake up my date. It enhances who
I am now. And I will share mybooks, I will share my work, I
will share my speaking withanyone who will hear it. The
joyous thing about podcasts likethis is that all of us love to
get together with people thatwill sit down and just revel in
(27:34):
the fact that I can tell mystory about John and they want
to listen. Yeah, right? It is somuch nicer to be with people who
have also been through the firebefore and come out the other
side. We've been through thefire, we can look at each other
and go, Yeah, I'll listen towhat you got to say. I want to
hear what you got to say.
Michelle (27:55):
Yeah, that's true. I absolutely love what I'm doing
now. Because of the fact that Iget to meet and talk to great
people like you who understand.
And we can share our emotionsand know that we're not alone in
what we're going through.
earlier in our discussion, youtalked about John really loving
being at church, and beinginvolved in the church with you.
(28:18):
Was faith always a part of yourlife?
Ron (28:21):
I grew up with God. I mean, God was everywhere. When I was a
kid, he was in Boy Scouts. Hewas in school he was in, you
know, he was in Christmas andall the stuff that we used to
watch, but we weren't a, youknow, a church attending family
per se, even though God wasalways in our house. Yep. I got
married in a Lutheran church,even though I was a Baptist by a
wonderful pastor named Ralphdidn't really join the church at
(28:43):
that time. He was my wife'spastor had been my wife's pastor
all of her life growing up. Buthe out of the blue, he pops up
at the hospital. While we'reincredibly despondent and
download our knees in. Weapologize, saying, Hey, we
didn't even tell you about this.
How did you know to come? Hegoes, Why didn't I came to see
somebody else. I didn't come toyou guys, but glad I'm here.
That happened three times, inour worst moments and times. So
(29:07):
I'm looking up thinking, hey,maybe you're trying to tell me
something. Pastor Ralph showedup on Easter morning. And John
had just gone through an openheart surgery and wasn't doing
well at all. They were scared.
And he he baptized us togetheron Easter morning, so I ended up
(29:28):
getting mourn by that time. Ifigured I was called. We moved
away from there. I joined in aLutheran Church in a small town
I moved John Optimus chippy tobe near Le Bonheur Children's
Hospital, which is one of themost preeminent cardiothoracic
centers in the country. AndJohn, being a patient there,
he'd be a patient with him forthe rest of his life, no matter
what happened to me and thatthat was a big thing for me. I
(29:50):
wanted John to I always wantedto make sure you had care. So
joining a Lutheran church outthere versus the suburbs of
Washington DC meant we went froma congregations of about 350
down to 40. It was a littlebetter there you had intimacy
with the church and the churchmembers that you didn't have and
that sort of mega churchenvironment, if you will.
(30:12):
Whereas John and I became theengineers and the, the sound
system people on Sundaymornings, and we can control the
pastor and turn his mic off ifwe were being, you know, little
playful and things like that.
And I reveled in the fact of howJohn got into it. And I sat back
and in thought after Johnpassed, where we led to that, I
think we were, I think it was apreparation for my soul, the
(30:35):
strength into my soul. Tostrengthen my resolve is we
started out in thisconversation, I told you, I went
from the hospital when Johnpassed robotically straight to
the pastor's office, and justsat in the chair and bless his
heart. Great man, you know, hejust listened. So I think it was
(30:56):
all in preparation. There is areally thin veil in between
where we are now and where heis. He is privileged to be where
he is, and we are privileged tobe where we are. And we'll be
together someday.
Michelle (31:13):
Absolutely. And what a day that will be. So, Ron, you
have really given us some greatinsights from your experience
over the last 10 years sincelosing John, you told us that
staying busy, can serve as adistraction for a time, but that
it's important to finally feelour emotions and let the grief
(31:35):
flow through us in order toheal. You highlighted the
different ways that people canprocess their grief and
emphasize it as long as youdon't harm yourself or others
while grieving it's okay to doit the way you do it. You
explained your importantrealization that grief is not an
emotion, but a container for allthe emotions related to it, and
(31:59):
how that concept is oftenmisunderstood. You said losing
an only child does not changeyour identity as a parent, that
grief can help us discover ourtrue selves and rediscover our
faith that there is purpose tobe found in our painful
experience. And then it's goodto talk to others who have been
(32:20):
through the fire, who understandand so much more. Ron, what
other lessons have you learnedfollowing the death of your son
that you can share with someonelistening right now who needs
help?
Ron (32:34):
We were never promised an easy life. Nobody was life is
sometimes the most joyous thingthat we can ever dream of in
life is sometimes so hard thatwe think that it's going to
break our backs. And we're justnot going to make it. But we
always do. We always have placesthat we can turn to friends that
we can turn to in life,sometimes we don't get help,
(32:56):
because we don't ask for it. Butwe are a society of people who
are joined together just forthat very reason. Two big
lessons in life for life. It'sit's here to live in the love
and to experience. We'll see ourlost loved ones again. But we
will live in a way that we wouldthink if they were left here, it
(33:21):
was us that had gone. How wouldthey want us to live? Would they
want us to make a difference?
When I went through my grievingprocess, the life lessons I take
away from that now is I wasokay. If you're ever not okay,
please go seek help. If you area friend, a partner of somebody
that you feel is not okay,encourage it. If you think
(33:44):
somebody's harming themselves,or harming others, and then make
sure they do get the help, butwe're also unique. The life
lesson is life. We all had ourplan when we came down, we might
not know what it is. But let'shave a good time while we're
doing it.
Michelle (34:01):
Very good. Well, Ron, thank you so much for these
great lessons and for sharingyour story about John and
everything you're doing. I'llput a link in the show notes to
your website so that if peoplewant to get copies of your books
that'll make it easy to find.
And again, it was an honor tohave you on the show.
Ron (34:18):
No the honor was all mine the conversation in the feelings
that I'll walk away myself afterhaving this was more than a
blessing. Thank you.
Michelle (34:28):
So for those of you listening, if you've lost a
child, you get it. You know thejoy and unconditional love that
comes from being a parent. Andyou also know the pain and the
sadness that comes when theyhave to go. You heard Ron talk
about how long he forced thepain aside because he wasn't
(34:50):
ready to accept it. But once hedid, not only did the tears
flow, but eventually so did hishealing and He's now using his
talents, abilities, and also hisgrief to write books and share
his story with others who needhope today. And there is hope to
(35:12):
be found. Trust me. You cansurvive what seems impossible
today. You can discover purposeand rediscover faith. And
through it all, you'll becomestronger. And one day you too
will be able to help someoneelse with the lessons you
learned in your loss. Thanks forlistening
Hey everybody and welcome back to Qualified, the
place where incredible peopleshare their stories of
overcoming great adversity andloss to inspire you and give you
hope. I'm Michelle Heaton. Thedeath of a child that has been
recognized as one of the mostchallenging and traumatic events
for a parent. No matter thechild's age or cause of death,
(00:35):
the devastation that follows isharsh and real, and leaves a
lasting impact. But the loss ofan only child carries with it
its own category of grief.
Losing an only child meanslosing a part of your identity.
Your grief feels like love withnowhere to go. You mourn the
loss of their presence, and thejoy they brought you, as well as
(00:59):
your future hopes and dreams.
And you have no choice but topick up the broken pieces of
your heart and keep walking thepath of life without your kid.
Those are the thoughts andrealizations that have tumbled
about in my mind for the last 10years since losing my teenage
(01:20):
son, and only child Sean in2013. Well, my guest today
completely understands the typeof grief I speak of. He too lost
a teenage son and only child in2013. And while he also knows
the hardship of walking the pathwith a limp, he's dedicated his
(01:43):
life since then to helpingothers move forward with
purpose. He's a best sellingauthor and speaker who provides
keynote addresses to groups ofbereaved employees at major
companies, including a five timeengagement with Delta Airlines.
He served on a board of advisorsat Children's Hospital and has
(02:03):
worked with some of thecountry's leading psychiatrists
and anthropologist to betterunderstand himself first, and
then his fellow Grievers. Hisname is R. Glenn Kelly. And it's
my pleasure to have him on theshow today. Welcome to
Qualified, Ron.
Ron (02:18):
Oh, hey, there, the welcome comes from me, I am so honored
to be here. I can't express thatenough. Thank you for having me
and given me the opportunity to,to see if I could could add
value to the incredible thingsyou're doing already.
Michelle (02:31):
Thank you, Ron.
Appreciate that. Well, let's getstarted first by talking about
your son, John, well, I want toknow a little bit about him, but
also about this rare congenitalheart defect
Ron (02:45):
I love talking about John John was born in 1997. You know,
I was getting a little long inthe tooth. And John came along
later in life. I was 35 when Ihad John. And he was my only
child, I spent time both in theMarine Corps and as a police
officer before that in, youknow, career came first before
thoughts of family. And suddenlyJohn came along in the world.
(03:06):
And to realize I was going to bea father meant that I was
falling in line with some of thethings that were supposed to
happen in my life, which becomesimportant later on. There's a
set things in life, I think weall have developed in sort of a
blueprint that we realize thatwe're going to construct as we
build our mansions. John camealong. And on the very first day
(03:28):
of his life, the doctors walkedinto the room and said John may
not make it through the night.
And it was kind of devastatingat that point. As you can
imagine, he had been as we wereexplained, he had been born with
a congenital heart defect, whichwas very rare, but not rare
enough called hypoplastic leftheart syndrome, which, in
layman's terms meant the leftside of his heart had failed to
(03:50):
develop in the womb. And he alsohad a rare blood type. So even
then, even though we hadn'tgotten into discussions about
heart transplant, which wouldhave been out of the question,
even his infancy age, then thedoctor said that there's little
hope. But this was in a fairlylocal hospital in Fairfax,
Virginia, they said there is theoption of transporting and right
(04:12):
away over to Children'sHospital. And they had barely
finished saying those words whenI repeated Children's Hospital,
let's go there now. So theypacked my wife and I out she had
actually gone to a C section.
There wasn't as you know,probably wasn't supposed to
leave for days. But they allowedme to put her in the car and
take her over to children's withus. And by the time we'd gotten
(04:33):
the Children's Hospital, he wassurrounded by people in white
coat is we paired to the glassin a doorway, and we noticed
that our child was in a table onthe center. And this consortium
of just white coats who all seemto move in unison moved around
the table around them until onebroke away and walked over to
the door and just opened thedoor a little bit and they said,
(04:56):
We think we can help close thedoor and you At that point, we
were devastated. But we had hopein our life. We had not any idea
what we're going through. Butlong story short, we went from
being told that our child mightnot make it through his first
day of life to having John for16 years, they rebuilt his heart
(05:18):
to function on two chambersonly.
Michelle (05:21):
Wow, that is amazing.
So that surgery saved his lifethat day. But what did they tell
you about how this new rebuiltheart would work? And how would
it impact John's life?
Ron (05:35):
The prognosis for John at that time, even though we knew
to be some medical interventionsalong the way during his life,
was that he would have a fulllife, his shortcomings would be
he didn't have the oxygensaturation that you and I have.
So he would tire easily. Withthe medical intervention, there
would be times where he would bedown for short periods of time
after they did somereconstructive work that needed
(05:56):
to be done small reconstructivework, but still, and we had no
expectations, I had noexpectations 16 years later to
John who would go in for andthere is nothing routine in the
medical field. But he would goin for what I would say is a
routine heart catheterizationjust for a sort of a checkup,
see how he's doing inside aroundthe heart. And he went through
(06:17):
the surgery well came out, hewas in recovery. And while he
was in recovery, his heartfailed, and Try as they might,
the medical staff on duty atthat time, could not recover,
John. And that was the day thatwe lost him here. And he went
back home.
Michelle (06:32):
I'm very sorry to hear that. And it actually takes me
back there in my mind to mysituation, and there's no words
to describe it. It's the worst.
So now, here you are faced withthe harsh reality that your son
John, your only child was gone.
What happened next there at thehospital? And what were the
(06:55):
thoughts going through your mindRon?
Ron (06:57):
Well, I had noticed right off the bat when when John
passed, I had the blessings. Andsome people don't understand
this. But I held John as he tookhis last breath. And I said out
loud, and I don't know where thewords came from. I will see you
again, it won't be soon. But Iwill see you again. And it's not
(07:19):
that I said, I'm going to standup and carry on with my life. I
didn't know at that point what Iwas going to do, I'm not sure if
you if I even thought about thewords that I said, but I left
there. And at the time I wasalone, when he passed, there
were shifts at the hospital.
Sometimes when you went in witha child who had a medical
condition, it was my shift tostay with John overnight while
he was in recovery. And when hepassed, it was three in the
(07:41):
morning. So I was alone. And thesecond half of our family was
not there at the time. So it wasjust it was just me. But I stood
up and I made the notificationof course, but I stood up and
wasn't really sure what I wasgoing to do. And all I knew is
that I drove straight from thereto the church, to see my pastor.
And I wasn't sure what I wasgoing to do at that point I went
(08:03):
home, I let a lot of what I nowconsidered to be my natural
wiring takeover. And it did anexcellent job as I look back on
that where I had. And it's it'sagain, one of those things that
some might not understand. WhenI say this, I had to blessings
of being busy at that point, Ihad to plan my son's funeral.
(08:25):
And as many know, I mean, youknow, the difference between
males and females, sometimeswe're systemize errs, and we're
mechanistic and we have to dothings and we have to move, we
can't sit still. One of theissues is control. And I knew I
could control the fact that myson if he was going to go back
then I was going to make surethat the honors for him were the
(08:46):
best that we could give him so Itook a lot of relegation in the
fact that I plan that while hismother was of course despondent,
in some ways, not capable ofdoing much understandable the
way she was wired to be. And Ifully accepted that and I, I
went past the funeral serviceson to life I had the opportunity
(09:08):
then to return to the workplaceway too soon.
Michelle (09:14):
So you say way too soon. It sounds as if you knew
it was too early to return towork. If that was the case, why
go back? Why not allow yourselfmore time to grieve?
Ron (09:26):
Because I had 1200 People that relied on me, and I had
1200 people that I couldcontrol. I could not control the
loss of my son but I know thatin my heart, subconsciously I
knew that I can go back to workand control what was going on.
Outside of work, I relegatedmyself to the garage workshop
where I was a amateur woodworkerand still am but amateur
(09:47):
woodworker. And I built Icontrolled if I wanted to
destroy I could destroy but Icould keep my mind from thinking
about what happened because mymind at that time wasn't ready
to accept what had happened.
Michelle (10:02):
Yeah, it's a hard thing to accept for sure. So how
long would you say you carriedon like this intentionally
staying busy to avoid facingthis new reality?
Ron (10:14):
It probably took about six months of me trying to purposely
defer my grief knowing that itwould come I was at wise it's
going to come I know that it isthat I was in the shower one
morning, getting ready for work.
And I had the radio on in theshower. And I heard that there
was a forecast I was inWashington, DC at the time,
(10:34):
there was a forecast for snow.
In my mind said, I wonder ifJohn's gonna have school today
if it's going to snow, and Irealized, I don't have John
anymore. And at that time, itlet go. all of it, let go. I
cried. I cried for about 10minutes. And then suddenly,
(10:55):
whether it is some weirdsynapses in my brain that
snapped or whether it really wasJohn, I felt him. I heard him. I
knew he was everywhere aroundme. So I said the only thing I
could say to him, which is Hi,baby. The only thing I heard
back was How dare you, dad? Howdare you not grieve me? How dare
(11:18):
you think you're not my fatheranymore? From that point on,
things changed. You know, therewere big. There were no big
trumpets. There was nothing likethat. But I mean, I decided I
was gonna go into a differentdirection. Was I ashamed of some
of the ways that I grieved?
Absolutely not. But I rememberinstances during the grieving
(11:38):
process earlier, where therewere people around me that
thought that I should go seesomebody. And I thought, well,
I'm okay. And then they said,Well, it's because you're okay
that you should go see somebody.
And I didn't, I didn'tunderstand that it didn't make
sense. And I wanted it to makesense. I wanted everything to
make sense. And then I heardthat from my my wife, that, you
(12:01):
know, there's a good chance thatyou didn't love our child
because you are not reacting ina way that you should be
reacted. And if that wasn't badenough, it only took a few times
of hearing that before I beganto wonder, did I not love my
child because I am notincapacitated because I am not
curled up in a fetal position onthe bed in complete remorse. And
(12:26):
that was one of the things thatafter the shower, I said, I have
got to understand why I wentthrough what I went through and
the way that I did. And thewonderful thing about it that
the most amazing thing was, Icame out after a few years of
really into a deep dive workingwith some amazing people that I
was okay. I was doing exactlywhat I was wired to do. I am me,
(12:50):
I have a uniqueness. And I'vealways said that as long as you
do not harm yourself or others,what you go through while
grieving is okay. Do it the waythat you do it.
Michelle (13:06):
I am so glad that you're sharing what your grief
looked like and the reactionfrom others because I'm sure
there's those listening rightnow who can also relate but
you're so right, there's noshame in how we grieve. There's
no right or wrong way. So let'stalk for a minute about the
death of an only child I'veshared before in other episodes
(13:28):
about how it feels to me, as amom, who no longer has her
child, tell us about some ofyour thoughts and realizations
about losing your only child is
Ron (13:40):
one of the big issues that that I had gone through when you
talk about the loss of a child.
But not only is it not thenatural order of things, but
it's also you don't know who youare anymore. You don't know who
your identity is. And I thoughtoh my god, I'm not even a father
anymore. I had a single childand he's gone. I'd been Marine,
I'd been a cop. I went on to bea federal agent, I had
(14:02):
identities that I had purposelyleft behind by my choice wasn't
my choice to leave behind theidentity of being a father. If
we go back to things that areblueprinted from, you know, days
of yours that did still residein our genes is we're, you know,
we're going to grow up, we'regoing to get married, we're
(14:22):
going to have a child, we aregoing to be great grandparents
and hopefully great grandparentsand then we're going to leave it
all behind for them. Losing achild is not the natural order
of things. And it's confusing,even on a subconscious level.
And when you're a single parent,when you lose a child like that
you lose your identity there fora while. Who am I now? Am I
(14:45):
still a parent? My gosh, I hadto tell myself that. Barbara and
Donald Kelly are still myparents, but they're not here
anymore. You know, I know you'veheard it before. Once a Marine
always a Marine And but I'm nolonger in the Corps. But I'm I'm
still identifying I who I amtoday is a part of Barbara and
(15:06):
Donald Kelly's influence on me,who I am today is part of the
influence of the Marine Corpshad on me, who I am largely
today is the influence of my sonJonathan Taylor Kelly had on me
and a lot of he put it into myheart. If I go back and tell you
that I was a jarhead. And I wasa cop, then it wouldn't surprise
(15:27):
you that I was one ego hungrysob that didn't care about
helping any other soul, eludingmyself. birth of a child changes
the death of a child disabled,it hones it, would not even
cover it. I care more about mybrother and sister now than then
(15:48):
I think I ever could have beforeI'd give it all back. I'd rather
go back to being an SOB if Icould have John back. But I
can't. So to give every day thatI can give to wake up in the
morning and hoping that I canimprove my life and somebody
else's life along with me iskind of a trade off from losing
(16:10):
that identity for even just amoment. Because sometimes you
have to see the dark to see thelight. Sometimes you have to
feel the pain to realize once apainted, gone away how wonderful
it is. You know, it's it's anamazing feeling. I want to help
you understand what I've said,give it back if I can't, so I
get this as a Don't yell at meas a consolation prize. And I'll
(16:36):
take it. It's a wonderfulfeeling. I wish there was a song
I think Tim McGraw, you know,live like you were dying, I
would have liked to have livedlike this before I lost John
Michelle (16:49):
I feel the same way.
We really do get a highereducation as a result of our
losses. And as hard as it is, wecan surely find good in it if we
live our lives in a new andbetter way as a result. So you
talked about that catharticmoment that took place in the
shower one day, and youultimately wrote a best selling
book called Sometimes I cry inthe shower. How did you make
(17:13):
that leap from what you weredoing in your career at that
time to becoming an author?
Ron (17:20):
So as I went through this process, at the time that I
lost, John, I was working with adefense contractor and I was
helping to write responses forfederal proposals, I was writing
bid responses for the USgovernment earning millions of
dollars for somebody through mywriting, I'd had the opportunity
to meet with some amazingpeople, one of them is one of
(17:42):
the most renowned professors ofplanetology, or the study of
death on the living. And as wesat down and talked, I just
realized that maybe if I couldwrite, to earn somebody's money,
maybe I could write to helpsomebody. And I had to convince
myself, I was at a point where Iwas okay. Which was easy,
(18:04):
because I knew even at thestart, as I look back, I was
okay, I was just processing itthe way that I was supposed to
process it. Long story short, isI sat down and I wrote my first
book, sometimes I cry in theshower. And the preface to that
book basically was you don'thave to change who you are, you
don't have to be ashamed of whoyou are. If you're not the type
that's going to express youremotions in front of somebody
else, that's fine. Just go do itthe way don't ignore them, don't
(18:27):
repress them just get stronger,it's going to come out. And it
was an amazing response that Igot back from people that one of
the first reaction was from thethen president of bereaved
parents of the USA, who hadbought a copy of my book. And
she called and introducedherself. And she goes, you know,
she goes, it's been 20 yearssince our loss. And I have
never, ever understood myhusband. And she goes now
(18:50):
because of your book, I realizedwhy he bugged the hell out of me
for the last 20 years. And it'sbecause there are if we talk
about the different sexes, maleversus female, and I do use more
verses, but I think you knowwhat I mean, I make it sound
like a competition, but it'snot. But if you look at the
differences in between us there,there, there are certain
(19:11):
tendencies that we're going tohave. And we have to allow
ourselves to have thosetendencies and we have to look
at the other and allow them tohave their tendencies as well.
Michelle (19:20):
So I think it's great that there's a book out there
that addresses this importantreality about how people grieve
in different ways. And I know alot of research went into that
project. But in addition to yourbook, you also started getting
some speaking invitations atthat time. What was it about
your message that made yousuddenly in high demand for
(19:40):
these events?
Ron (19:42):
I got invitations to come and speak and then invitations
to be on things like Trinitybroadcast network, and when I
stopped to ask why it wasamazing that the answer was
because you were a man who waswilling to stand up and say, it
hurts. And I said, well, ithurts so anything that I can
answer from that point asked me.
So there is one thing that ifanyone can take away from this
(20:05):
as a positive, there's nothingelse that could hurt us guys. I
mean, you know, I people ask mewhy I can stand up on stage and
not worry about making agoofball out of myself that what
else can happen to me it isworse in this world and losing
my child, right? Bring it, youknow, Judge me if you want to,
but the worst thing is behind menow.
Michelle (20:26):
I know that feeling.
You talked about Sometimes I cryin the shower. But I know you've
written a few other books. Howmany books have you written?
written seven now? Well, after
Ron (20:38):
Sometimes I cry in the shower, if I could tell you just
to make it brief, but it's afunny story. I mentioned I'd
been on Trinity broadcastnetwork, and I had to drive to
Chattanooga, to their televisionstation from where I was, and it
was about a four hour drive fromwhere I was staying at the time.
And I had finished theinterview. And during the
interview, the host keptrepeating the word grief, grief,
grief, grief, grief, grief,grief, and I stopped for a
(21:01):
second very tactfully said, I'dlike you to know that the grief
is not an emotion, you dorealize that grief is grief is
kind of the container word forall the emotions that are
wrapped up inside of thatfeeling. It's kind of like a box
and kind of like a It's kind oflike a case. It's kind of like a
grief case. So as we all dothat, and I know wonderful
podcasters do it too, that afteryou do a show. Sometimes you sit
(21:24):
back and go, What did I say? Howdid that come out? What was
that? So I'm driving in the carback and I thought, well, how
can I make people see the griefisn't an emotion, it's a it's a
container. And I thought griefcase is absolutely perfect for
it. But came out with my secondbook called The grief case,
which is a process of really,you know, removing redundant
(21:45):
feelings, false anger, falseguilt, getting the things that
are out of your system that justdon't need to be there while
you're going through his uglyprocess and moving forward. And
it became a pretty good book,it's a good concept. Then I sort
of turned my attention towardsthe workplace. When I lost John,
I had probably half a dozenmanagers who reported to me
(22:06):
every day, and they used to comesee me every morning, and I
would get a lot of productivityout of this visit in the
morning. And then I lost Johnand came back to work. And those
managers didn't stop by my dooranymore, because they were not
comfortable and confronting me.
And I thought to myself, youknow, there's a pretty big dip
in productivity right there initself. What are the impacts? So
I wrote some some documents outabout grief in the workplace, I
(22:31):
got invited to speak at DeltaAirlines, which is fantastic. I
still go there every year. I'mtheir only keynote speaker every
year when they fly in bereavedemployees from around the
country to headquarters. But itgot me down that avenue. And I
wrote one book, that was griefin the workplace, it's for the
employer. And then I wrote onecalled Taking your grief case to
work, which is basically for theemployee that goes back to work
(22:54):
after that. Wow. And then I wentI went as every author does
said, I think I'm getting prettygood at writing. So I wrote a
fiction. And it turned out to bepretty good. I named it
Thursday's into grado, and it'sabout a family that goes to the
loss. And yeah, sometimes we wemirror ourselves in our books.
So it was a loss of a son. Andthe processes of getting through
(23:17):
that in sort of, if you will,and a little bit of action, a
little bit of romance, a littlebit of things that you would
find in a fiction book. Wow. Andthen last but not least, is
digested a broken road traveler,which is kind of breaks away
from the grief itself and getsmore into. We all travel a
broken Road, let's look at 52ways that we can stop and
reground ourselves to rediscoverourselves, number one, and
(23:41):
rediscover our faith.
Michelle (23:44):
Yes, and thank you for sending that book to me. I read
through it in like one evening,and I thought it was so
beautiful. And I can't wait todig into some of the other ones.
So Ron, when you and I talkedbefore, we both agreed that good
things can actually come fromall the hardship we've been
through. So can you just take aminute and share your thoughts
(24:04):
about purpose as it relates toyour situation?
Ron (24:08):
There is a spark that I allowed in my soul to always
tell me there's a reason why I'mhere. Before John passed, there
was a period in our life wherehe and I were both drawn to the
church. And I take that I lookback on it. Now maybe that was a
preparation in a way where wehad not just, you know, Sunday
visits, we had completeinvolvement with the church. And
(24:31):
because of that, I always feltthat I had a purpose here.
There's a reason I still feellike that's the reason why you
were there's a reason why Johnwas here. And I think I told you
before we spoke previously, youknow, it's 16 years and you will
agree with me if if I were giventhe chance to do it all again.
And I was told it's just goingto be 16 years. I would do it
(24:52):
again. Yeah, that to me was mypurpose. With John I knew
immediately when I had him inyou relate to this to
unconditional love.
Unconditional loved I had neverfelt before. You know the old
adage, get your Do you hearthat? You know, I'm a cop. I'll
take a bullet for you. Now, wetrained not to take a bullet for
you. Right? My son, you don'tknow, how many times did I
(25:13):
prayed? Take me instead? Becausehe led me having open heart
surgery isn't they said, this isa rough one. You might not make
it through this, we'll all haveto pray to make sure you know,
just from an open heart surgerythat you survived. I had never
felt that kind of commitmentbefore love wouldn't trade it
for the world? I would not.
Michelle (25:33):
Yeah, I can relate to that. We're on let me let me ask
you this question. Because bothof us are at the 10 year point.
And that seems like a long timein terms of time right to most
people. And your life isdifferent. Now what you do your
work is completely differentnow. Have you ever been told by
(25:55):
anyone? You know, what are youdoing? It's been 10 years move
on do something else? And if so,how do you react to that? That
what I do
Ron (26:04):
now is a pride thing. And I think that the for anyone that
is early in this process is justgetting on the path that we're
walking down, they have torealize that there will come a
time where you'd be proud totalk about the love you I'm
proud to talk about John, I'vetalked about John as often as I
can. And if somebody doesn'tlike it, they don't like it.
John was an influence on mygrief at the time. John remains
(26:28):
a major influence in my lifetoday. But he does not drive my
life in a negative way. Hedrives it in a positive way. The
ugly thoughts that I still have,I still grieve, I still hurt if
I didn't hurt I would be amonster. If I if I didn't have
that longing and yearning tohold my child again, I would be
(26:49):
an absolute hideous man. But I'mnot gonna let it ruin my day.
I'm not gonna let it lead mylife, I'll pick the good parts
of it know that, you know, Italked to John Lott, I still get
the benefits of knowing he'saround, he influences my day,
every day, there was a timewhere I thought I was gonna get
in trouble with our makerbecause I was talking to John
more than I was talking to him.
Sometimes I enjoy talking abouthim. If people say I need to
(27:12):
move on and think about adifferent subject, why? He
doesn't, it's not my day doesn'ttake up my date. It enhances who
I am now. And I will share mybooks, I will share my work, I
will share my speaking withanyone who will hear it. The
joyous thing about podcasts likethis is that all of us love to
get together with people thatwill sit down and just revel in
(27:34):
the fact that I can tell mystory about John and they want
to listen. Yeah, right? It is somuch nicer to be with people who
have also been through the firebefore and come out the other
side. We've been through thefire, we can look at each other
and go, Yeah, I'll listen towhat you got to say. I want to
hear what you got to say.
Michelle (27:55):
Yeah, that's true. I absolutely love what I'm doing
now. Because of the fact that Iget to meet and talk to great
people like you who understand.
And we can share our emotionsand know that we're not alone in
what we're going through.
earlier in our discussion, youtalked about John really loving
being at church, and beinginvolved in the church with you.
(28:18):
Was faith always a part of yourlife?
Ron (28:21):
I grew up with God. I mean, God was everywhere. When I was a
kid, he was in Boy Scouts. Hewas in school he was in, you
know, he was in Christmas andall the stuff that we used to
watch, but we weren't a, youknow, a church attending family
per se, even though God wasalways in our house. Yep. I got
married in a Lutheran church,even though I was a Baptist by a
wonderful pastor named Ralphdidn't really join the church at
(28:43):
that time. He was my wife'spastor had been my wife's pastor
all of her life growing up. Buthe out of the blue, he pops up
at the hospital. While we'reincredibly despondent and
download our knees in. Weapologize, saying, Hey, we
didn't even tell you about this.
How did you know to come? Hegoes, Why didn't I came to see
somebody else. I didn't come toyou guys, but glad I'm here.
That happened three times, inour worst moments and times. So
(29:07):
I'm looking up thinking, hey,maybe you're trying to tell me
something. Pastor Ralph showedup on Easter morning. And John
had just gone through an openheart surgery and wasn't doing
well at all. They were scared.
And he he baptized us togetheron Easter morning, so I ended up
(29:28):
getting mourn by that time. Ifigured I was called. We moved
away from there. I joined in aLutheran Church in a small town
I moved John Optimus chippy tobe near Le Bonheur Children's
Hospital, which is one of themost preeminent cardiothoracic
centers in the country. AndJohn, being a patient there,
he'd be a patient with him forthe rest of his life, no matter
what happened to me and thatthat was a big thing for me. I
(29:50):
wanted John to I always wantedto make sure you had care. So
joining a Lutheran church outthere versus the suburbs of
Washington DC meant we went froma congregations of about 350
down to 40. It was a littlebetter there you had intimacy
with the church and the churchmembers that you didn't have and
that sort of mega churchenvironment, if you will.
(30:12):
Whereas John and I became theengineers and the, the sound
system people on Sundaymornings, and we can control the
pastor and turn his mic off ifwe were being, you know, little
playful and things like that.
And I reveled in the fact of howJohn got into it. And I sat back
and in thought after Johnpassed, where we led to that, I
think we were, I think it was apreparation for my soul, the
(30:35):
strength into my soul. Tostrengthen my resolve is we
started out in thisconversation, I told you, I went
from the hospital when Johnpassed robotically straight to
the pastor's office, and justsat in the chair and bless his
heart. Great man, you know, hejust listened. So I think it was
(30:56):
all in preparation. There is areally thin veil in between
where we are now and where heis. He is privileged to be where
he is, and we are privileged tobe where we are. And we'll be
together someday.
Michelle (31:13):
Absolutely. And what a day that will be. So, Ron, you
have really given us some greatinsights from your experience
over the last 10 years sincelosing John, you told us that
staying busy, can serve as adistraction for a time, but that
it's important to finally feelour emotions and let the grief
(31:35):
flow through us in order toheal. You highlighted the
different ways that people canprocess their grief and
emphasize it as long as youdon't harm yourself or others
while grieving it's okay to doit the way you do it. You
explained your importantrealization that grief is not an
emotion, but a container for allthe emotions related to it, and
(31:59):
how that concept is oftenmisunderstood. You said losing
an only child does not changeyour identity as a parent, that
grief can help us discover ourtrue selves and rediscover our
faith that there is purpose tobe found in our painful
experience. And then it's goodto talk to others who have been
(32:20):
through the fire, who understandand so much more. Ron, what
other lessons have you learnedfollowing the death of your son
that you can share with someonelistening right now who needs
help?
Ron (32:34):
We were never promised an easy life. Nobody was life is
sometimes the most joyous thingthat we can ever dream of in
life is sometimes so hard thatwe think that it's going to
break our backs. And we're justnot going to make it. But we
always do. We always have placesthat we can turn to friends that
we can turn to in life,sometimes we don't get help,
(32:56):
because we don't ask for it. Butwe are a society of people who
are joined together just forthat very reason. Two big
lessons in life for life. It'sit's here to live in the love
and to experience. We'll see ourlost loved ones again. But we
will live in a way that we wouldthink if they were left here, it
(33:21):
was us that had gone. How wouldthey want us to live? Would they
want us to make a difference?
When I went through my grievingprocess, the life lessons I take
away from that now is I wasokay. If you're ever not okay,
please go seek help. If you area friend, a partner of somebody
that you feel is not okay,encourage it. If you think
(33:44):
somebody's harming themselves,or harming others, and then make
sure they do get the help, butwe're also unique. The life
lesson is life. We all had ourplan when we came down, we might
not know what it is. But let'shave a good time while we're
doing it.
Michelle (34:01):
Very good. Well, Ron, thank you so much for these
great lessons and for sharingyour story about John and
everything you're doing. I'llput a link in the show notes to
your website so that if peoplewant to get copies of your books
that'll make it easy to find.
And again, it was an honor tohave you on the show.
Ron (34:18):
No the honor was all mine the conversation in the feelings
that I'll walk away myself afterhaving this was more than a
blessing. Thank you.
Michelle (34:28):
So for those of you listening, if you've lost a
child, you get it. You know thejoy and unconditional love that
comes from being a parent. Andyou also know the pain and the
sadness that comes when theyhave to go. You heard Ron talk
about how long he forced thepain aside because he wasn't
(34:50):
ready to accept it. But once hedid, not only did the tears
flow, but eventually so did hishealing and He's now using his
talents, abilities, and also hisgrief to write books and share
his story with others who needhope today. And there is hope to
(35:12):
be found. Trust me. You cansurvive what seems impossible
today. You can discover purposeand rediscover faith. And
through it all, you'll becomestronger. And one day you too
will be able to help someoneelse with the lessons you
learned in your loss. Thanks forlistening
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