Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hi Abby, Welcome to
the Quantum Alchemist Master
Podcast.
It's a pleasure to have youhere.
How are you today?
Speaker 2 (00:08):
I am great.
It is such a pleasure to behere.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Absolutely my
pleasure.
So I know a little bit aboutyou, but I want you to tell us
in your own word whatever youwant to share about your own
journey.
It could be anywhere fromchildhood, or maybe something
that you've never shared beforein a podcast it doesn't.
It can be as as deeper, asshallow as you'd like, but just
something maybe interestingabout you, or maybe how you got
(00:35):
to where you are today, and youcan take that timeline however
you like.
You can take the floor and gowith it.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Oh, wow, that's an
open.
That's an open question.
We just had such a greatconversation before you started
recording.
Yeah, you know well listen, whydon't I share something I have
never, ever, ever shared before?
And I was listening to one ofyour podcasts in anticipation of
this and this reminded me like,yeah, I never shared that
(01:04):
before, but it actually came up.
Someone was experiencing onLinkedIn, someone that I knew
from a pod that we were in orsomething, and she had shared a
post about having gotten takenadvantage of financially.
And I noticed, you know, rightafter the post she was sort of
posting in our pod like I'msorry if I made anybody
(01:25):
uncomfortable, and she felt somuch shame about having been
taken advantage of a womanyounger than me.
And I texted her on the side.
I said remind me to tell youabout the time I went bankrupt.
And I've really never sharedthat before, not on purpose, but
I just haven't.
(01:47):
But many years ago I was out ofmy first marriage.
But in my first marriage I wasmarried to an alcoholic and an
addict and we didn't have moneyto pay the mortgage and I was,
you know, fronting everything.
(02:07):
He had chronic pain and he hadhe had actually was a recovering
alcoholic relapsed on pain medsbecause of, um uh, back injury
and I was doing everything I wastaking care of.
Everything is so many, you know, women end up doing in that
situation.
And I was in private practice.
My psychotherapy practice wasdoing well, but we had bought a
(02:28):
house that was too expensive forus and we had all of these
things to try and fix theproblem.
And so I got involved withsomeone who I don't know where I
read about it or saw it, butsomeone who was doing real
estate investing.
It sounded great.
We were going to fix and flipforeclosures and I was like,
(02:50):
fabulous, all I had to do wasuse my credit and we would buy
the houses with my credit and hewould help me fix and flip them
and then he would give me cashto pay the payments and then,
once the thing was fixed andflipped which he would take care
of everything we would bothshare the profits, and so this
(03:11):
was great.
And so he showed you how toscope out places and everything,
and there was a whole group ofus that was doing it and I found
three properties that he waslike, okay, yeah, that'll work,
there's a good margin with that,we can do that.
So I bought the houses.
That'll work.
There's a good margin with that, we can do that.
So I bought the houses and Ihad about a million dollars of
(03:31):
debt between three houses and wewere going to fix and flip them
and whatnot, and he was payingme and all this stuff Meanwhile
get divorced.
Move on in my new relationship,which happened to be with a
financial advisor who I'm stillmarried with today, and the
payment stopped coming in and myboyfriend at the time was like
(03:52):
I don't know, this sounds alittle.
And I'm like no, no, no, no, no, this is the nicest guy.
It's not like that.
He's like I don't know.
I feel like this is a weirdthing.
Maybe I should meet with themand we met with them and whatnot
.
I still don't know to this day.
Some people would still thinkI'm crazy.
But was this a full out scam andI just was completely scammed
from the very beginning?
(04:13):
Maybe, or was there really goodintentions, you know, but it
didn't work out, I don't know.
But regardless, we were goingto be married and we couldn't
because I had all this debt andit looked like I was going to
have to file bankruptcy, whichis in fact, what I did.
So, yeah, so that's somethingthat I very first started as a
(04:42):
psychotherapist, and one of thereally important things for me
now, as I work on myself andwith others, is this monster of
shame that follows us around andit is so debilitating, and it
is so destructive and it is souniversal and yet the most alone
(05:02):
experience everyone has.
And so, um, that was an exampleof, you know, a time where I
had, you know, a tremendousamount of shame about this, as
were, like so many, so manyother times.
Right, I always people ask youknow, I'm like, well, which bone
crushing humiliation would youlike me to speak about?
You know, I mean, I couldchoose from many, you know wow,
(05:28):
that's very deep and verypersonal.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Thank you for sharing
that.
Um, first of all, I'm sure alot of people can relate and
then don't have to look at it asanother taboo subject, um.
So thank you for yourvulnerability.
And in regards to shame, I feellike there are many I love
young and I love many other inthat same realm, but I love in
(05:55):
general, the idea of archetypesand how they play out in our
psyche, both in the unconscious,collective unconscious, and at
a conscious level in oursubconscious.
So I feel like you know, thetarot has 22 major arcana's, um,
and I'm I'm not a big tarot,I'm just like intuitive and into
(06:16):
the tarot, but, um, I feel likeat some point in our life we
walk the 22, uh, archetypesright and and different, and
sometimes we mix a couple ofthem, and shame is big in our
collective unconscious, big, big, big.
It's like embedded at asubconscious, not only the
(06:39):
collective unconscious but ourpersonal subconscious level,
which is that automaticprogramming just running behind,
making making these autonomicdecisions that we're not
necessarily aware of.
So thank you for bringing themonster in the room right away.
What has been your, yourpersonal experience, kind of
(07:00):
like your journey?
How did you come around to towork with shame in this way,
kind of like your journey?
How did you come around to workwith shame in this way to see
it as a teacher to dance?
Yes, it is a teacher right.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
I mean, and I think
that you know this idea that no
life happens for you not to you,which I think you know some of
the work that I do now withPositive Intelligence, which is
the work of Shirzad Shamim, Ifeel like he oh, my God, I'm
doing that now.
Oh, really, it's fabulous.
It's fabulous and you can takeit so deep.
I work with people on it.
(07:32):
It's one of the models that Ibring into businesses, that I
bring in individually.
We'll definitely have to talkabout it more.
I really love it, but he saysit the best, right, he?
One of the reasons I reallylove his work is that he drills
down some really complex of thethings and shame is.
So.
This is a good conversation,because one of the things that
(08:07):
people who are so advancedreally miss is, you know, we're
going for the mystical, we'regoing for these incredible
experiences and all of thisstuff, but then we open our eyes
and day to day, right, theunconscious process, the
autonomic process that you'rereferring to, is this shame and
this guilt that's running,running, running, running.
(08:28):
And then, if we don't sit downto meditation, oh, we're a
horrible person, or we couldn'tget through the meditation, oh,
we're a horrible person and orwhatever it is that we didn't do
that day, or whatever andpositive intelligence.
The way that they frame this isthat you know there's the
saboteurs and there's the sage,and the sage perspective is that
(08:49):
everything can be turned into agift and opportunity.
And if everything can be turnedinto a gift and opportunity and
that is the perspective thatyou choose to go through life
with then what is there to beafraid of?
What is there Right?
And it's like that.
So you have an experience andall of a sudden you just ask
yourself well, what saboteursays this is bad, this is
(09:11):
horrible?
Sage says everything can beturned into a given opportunity.
Which one do I want to choosetoday on this?
Speaker 1 (09:17):
issue.
Taking that to the mysticalside, um, reminds me a lot of
the non-dualistic perception oflife, right, even though we we
do live in in.
This perceived polarity is like, if you can quiet enough to see
what's underneath it, you knowthere is not.
(09:40):
That duality is not thereunderneath all the noise, right?
So then, if you are able to getto that level, um, that I call
it the space between the space,that was just how I like to
refer to it.
Um, so when you get to thatblank canvas, um, you just
become the observer to see thateverything is just emerging in
(10:02):
that canvas You're just creating.
It's just there.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
I was literally
having a conversation with my 13
year old yesterday and I waslike the space between where you
are and I am is whereeverything is happening.
This is all right, and sothat's the more kind of advanced
stuff that a lot of peoplecan't really wrap their heads
around.
They're like, ah, that's crazy,that's bullshit, you know
whatever.
But their heads around they'relike, ah, that's crazy, that's
(10:24):
bullshit, you know whatever.
But that's kind of why I likethe simplicity of this.
But absolutely Right, like weare all, and it's so crazy with
what the world is going throughnow, people are like, oh, you
know, they feel so much love andyou know, oh, it's, it's
wonderful.
When they're like looking attheir candidate for campaigning,
right, it's like, okay, well,that's not love, that's united
(10:45):
around hating someone else.
How much love are you going tofeel if your candidate doesn't
win?
Then that's conditional love,right?
So this idea that right.
I do a lot of work with GertSchaaf as well, who was a mystic
in the early 1900s, and, likewe all as human beings, you know
(11:09):
, we all have the same capacityfor good and for evil.
It's 50-50, right, 50% positive, 50% negative, 50% good, 50%
bad, just like Jung used to sayright, like if someone came into
his office and was like theywere like, oh my God,
everything's amazing.
He'd be like oh something bad'sgoing to happen, and if they're
like, oh, everything's horrible,he'd be like great news,
(11:31):
Because that's how the universerolls right.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Yeah, the polar
opposite of it's just sitting
right in front of you at everymoment.
So it's that humility torecognize that right.
You're up today or you'reliving this grand experience and
right across from that is isthe opposite of that and it's
all a contrast.
It's all really beautiful Ifyou could see it as a, if you
(11:54):
could find the, the Lotus andthe mud, um, if you can go
beyond that.
So tell me more about kind ofhow you got to the work that you
do today, like how did you getfrom bankruptcy literally to and
real estate investing?
I've done real estate investingas well, by the way.
(12:15):
Quite an interesting ride.
I will say yeah.
So how do you go from that towhat you do today?
That's completely just.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Right.
Well, that was really sort of ahiatus.
I mean, I do enjoy real estate,I think it's interesting, but
it was more probably sort oflike similar to when I got a
puppy to try and save thatmarriage and I'm like this will
work, let's have moreresponsibility.
So I started as apsychotherapist.
That's how my life began and ata very young age I mean at a
(12:51):
very young age I was reallyplugged into, in some
subconscious way, this idea ofshame.
I remember being like seven oreight years old and telling my
mother you know, dad's analcoholic.
And she, she said don't youever talk about your father that
way, you know?
And I remember just being soconfused all the time as a kid,
(13:12):
as I think many of us are.
You know like what?
Why won't anybody just say thetruth?
Like what?
Like what's the big deal?
You know.
And even my dad you know like.
However, many years later, whenhe got sober, he's like no, I
was an alcoholic.
You know like, yeah, that's thetruth of it, right.
But so I was always reallyplugged into that and I think
(13:36):
you know, as those of us whohave grown up in different areas
and ways you know, there was alot of shame involved, and so I
always wanted a place wherepeople could just show up as
they were and have that shame,just be able to like stay in my
office while they went off andlived their life because it's so
(13:56):
debilitating.
Um, and so that's what I did.
You know, I started a businessin psychotherapy and I did that
for over a decade.
And then, when I went throughmy divorce, I actually went into
business with my husband nowhe's a financial advisor, has
his own firm, and I worked withhim for about 12 years, like I
(14:25):
want to talk to people, but notabout money, and I just knew
that I just was not doing what Iwas meant to do.
And so that's when I went intocoaching and I preferred that
model because by that time I hadlearned a lot about
neuroscience, I had beenstudying different you know,
wisdom, techniques and thingslike that, and it just brought
so much I just understood sowell at a different level.
You know what psychotherapy,you know where it ends and where
(14:49):
it leaves off and how peopletruly change, you know, and the
ability that we can change, andso so that's how I wound up,
kind of doing what I, what I donow.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
That's beautiful.
I want to take that last partyou mentioned and kind of peel
the onion a little bit and shiftthe perspective a little.
So to our listeners the factthat anyone can change.
So to me has been not onlylearning about you know that,
(15:22):
saying know thyself right, notonly learning about you know
that, saying know thyself right,that's a whole nother thing,
because a lot of the times we'rein survival mode, especially if
you've been through trauma,especially if you are below poor
rooted line or you're in,you've been erased and
conditioned and programmed froma very early age to not even
(15:44):
question your programming, likeyou don't have the awareness
that there is anything elsebeyond the veil of what your
experience is.
So, coming from that very, Iwould say, just primal
experience of life, raw lifeexperience, it is very difficult
(16:06):
to speak to someone you canchange and then they'll come up
with all of these I don't wantto say excuses, but all these
reasons that sustain and provetheir current situation, like oh
no, I can't change because I'ma single mother and I have this
and I have that.
To that point I just want tosay I come from Cuba from having
(16:30):
nothing, zero, like literallyvery scarcity of food, one pair
of shoes, the floor was made ofdirt and when it rained, it
rained inside the house.
So, yes, it can be done insidethe house.
So, yes, it can be done.
(16:50):
And so so many beautiful peoplethat I've had on the podcast
have had tremendous, tremendous,arduous soul evolution by the
human experience being in jail,dealing with drugs, with
addiction you name it abuse ofmany kinds, and they've been
able to do it.
If you're listening to us hereand you could tell us just in
(17:14):
general from your clients, thechange that you have seen in
people even at their darkesttime, even if they're going
through a terminal illness, havefaith, it can be done.
You just have to be willing andopen.
It's just the moment that youchange.
You know that frequency chartwhere you tap into courage and
(17:37):
then all of a sudden change,miracles begin to happen.
It's just having that courageand that openness.
There has to be a different way.
To me it was a tremendousamount of pain and poverty and
all of these things like rockbottom, and then when you're at
rock bottom, you're like, well,I need help.
It has to be able to be adifferent way.
(17:58):
This is not the only thing thatexists and then from there, you
propel yourself and you startgoing up or expanding right your
consciousness.
What have you seen?
With your clients coming fromvery difficult situations.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Well, yeah, I mean I
want to hop onto what you were
saying before as well, about youknow for your listeners that
you know we can change from rockbottom, and that's normally
when we most of us do.
I mean, for me it was a night injail, you know, and just being
like and that's what my TED talkwas about, and everything was
just kind of like, oh, you know,like something's got to change
(18:41):
here.
You know and I've spent thelast however many years trying
to change everything outside ofme what if I try and change me?
And I think one of the reallyimportant things for listeners
to know is that your life canchange.
It's not just you can change,because a lot of times people
are when they're in pain,they're not feeling, they're not
(19:02):
seeing what it is inside ofthem that needs to change,
they're not seeing the frequencythat needs to change.
They're seeing all the thingsaround them that needs to change
.
And the most important thingthat I think the world needs to
wake up to and thank God there'sso many more people who are
waking up to this now than everbefore but is that when you
change, that changes thefrequency and then everything
(19:24):
around you changes.
And it's not just the frequency.
When you change, your behaviorchanges.
And when your behavior changes,then other people respond
differently to you.
And I love the hope that you'regiving people, because I was
just talking to a clientyesterday.
She texted me over the weekendand her son is in real pain and
(19:47):
saying exactly those things.
You know, like, oh nah, youknow she's giving him all these
things, try this and try thatand try this and try that.
But you know, based on the workthat we've done together and
he's just no, that's not for me,because blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah and this I want people toknow is a stress reaction, right
?
So, like, no one wants to be avictim, that is not the human
(20:10):
experience, that's not ournatural state.
But when we get under stressthis way that, like you said,
the autonomic nervous systemjust takes over and we begin to
view things and we think forsome reason that we are special
in the way that our life is sobad, it's different from anybody
(20:31):
else, right To the point thatwe could listen to people who
literally have been brought upin poverty and it rains inside
the house, or who have hadbrutal, brutal, brutal, you know
, assaults and rapes and allkinds of awful things happening
to them and still, somehow themind can fool someone into
thinking.
But I'm different because blah,blah, blah, blah, blah.
(20:53):
And so one of the things thatis important to you, know, I
mean, listen, I'm not foreveryone, right, this work is
not for everyone, nor is itsupposed to be.
Not everyone is here on thisround to evolve, you know, or
they're evolving in one way andnot another way, right?
And so to me, what is mostimportant is that to be curious,
(21:19):
like you say, to be open, andthis was what I said to my
client.
We just need to try to get aray.
We just want to crack the dooropen a little bit and just get a
little ray of sunshine inenough that he can get curious,
just enough to get curious.
And there's all these differentways.
We can do it, right.
We can do it by.
We can get him on a little lowdose of medication, right, we
(21:41):
can try that.
And we could send him this bookor we could send him this,
whatever.
But at the end of the day, thisis also about her evolution,
right?
We can't change the people thatare around us, right?
So what's the gift and theopportunity for her here, right?
And so then there's a wholeconversation to be had around.
Listen, it's very hard to watchyour kids in pain.
(22:03):
It's very difficult, and whatare the things that come up for
you when that happens?
Well, I guess there's a littlebit of guilt and shame that I
did this to him.
That's an important awarenessto have, because if that's
running, we've got to addressthat, because not only is it
completely false and ridiculous,because everybody signs a
(22:23):
contract before they come hereto deal with what they've got to
deal with.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
That's what I was
going to say next.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Right, right, like,
and I always say that about my
own son.
I have a son who has a seriousneuromuscular disability and I
can apply everything I knowabout how stressed I was during
my pregnancy and say, oh well,he bathed in stress fluid and so
that gene was flipped andclearly it was my fault.
Except if I didn't have allthat mess going on in my womb,
(22:50):
he wouldn't have chosen it,because his soul needed to
overcome.
He needs well, what he needs isto be humbled in this life,
which is clear, and he'sdefinitely being humbled with
his body, right.
So this whole conversation okay,let's look at this you are
attributing what's happeningwith your child to yourself, a
right and then, of course,there's fear that comes up and
(23:12):
all of those processes that arehappening for her are causing
her to send things to her son.
Do this, try this, try this,try that, try this, because that
will help her anxiety, thatwill help her anxiety, that will
help her fear, that will helpher sadness and her pain that
her child is in trouble.
But when you apply psychologyto it and this is how I really
love using all of the thingsthat I have at my disposal when
(23:35):
you apply psychology to it.
There is now an energy betweenthem where she is holding the
pain of this problem for him,and whenever we hold the pain of
a problem for someone else, weliterally take it off their lap
and they don't feel it becausewe're feeling it.
(23:57):
And so then we can use sometechniques right and say listen,
I want you to do a littlemeditation, I want you to wrap
this pain up like a little giftand I want you to imagine you
just lovingly handing it back tohim and placing his lap.
And if you want to hold him andhug him from behind while he
holds it, just picture yourselfthere so you can energetically
(24:20):
move that.
Because we want the pain of himfeeling like he's going nowhere
to be greater than the anxietyof doing something about it.
That's the problem right nowthe anxiety of doing something
is bigger than the anxiety offeeling this miserable and
(24:41):
that's and that's why he's stuck.
So it's kind of a long windedanswer to your no, it's
beautiful and that's why he'sstuck.
So it's kind of a long-windedanswer to your-.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
No, it's beautiful
and it's gotten me to think a
couple of things.
One and speaking about from mypersonal experience and my
family we can't save anyone thatdoesn't want the help,
basically.
So what I've learned is to stepback.
If they need me to go to thehospital, I will go.
If they need a medication, Iwill prescribe it.
(25:08):
I'm a nurse practitioner.
I'll prescribe it.
If they ask for something, aslong as it's not violating the
boundaries I have in place, Iwill help to the extent which
they want the help.
I have people in my familydealing with addiction, dealing
with suicide.
They know the work I do.
(25:29):
I work a lot with addiction,suicide, trauma, et cetera.
They know I'm there.
I can't force them as much asit pains me literally to see
them to be in my own closecircle, I know there's nothing I
could do.
I know people listening to thismay be like what do you mean?
(25:50):
Just go talk to them, right?
Speaker 2 (25:51):
right right, right
right.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
So it may be a little
contradicting.
Another thing you mentionedyour son and a lot of the stuff
that.
So this is just my perspective.
A lot of the listeners don'thave to agree, and that's also
beautiful.
Just be curious, ask, questioneverything, question what I say,
what should, what Abby saying?
That's beautiful, Okay, If yourown answers are within yourself
(26:14):
, you don't have to listen toour answers.
We're just sharing with youwhat we've found out in our path
and that could change in a week, in a month, next year, right.
So this is just as of thisprecise moment, In my personal
opinion.
From a near-death experience Ihad, I was able to see a lot of
the things I chose beforeincarnating here, A lot of like
(26:35):
soul lessons and family as afamily, soul, family blueprint.
Certain things we had to workthrough it as a family as well.
Soul, family blueprint.
Certain things we had to workthrough it as a family as well.
So we really can't carry thatburden, that pain, that inner
work, the work for someone else.
It's for that person to gothrough their own alchemical
(26:59):
process and then distill, purifyand turn into gold and remember
their true essence, right?
However that journey may look,may look 10 years, 20 years,
maybe it's your entire lifetime.
Maybe it's right when youpassed, that's okay, that's
beautiful.
You have eternity to learn this.
It doesn't there's really notime or space.
But to that point I was talkingto my son.
He made me watch well, not mademe, but he was very insistent
(27:22):
that I watch Harry Potter.
And I'm like, no, I don't wantto watch Harry Potter, whatever,
that's not my like, my, mything.
No, no, no, you have to watchit, you have to watch it.
I watched all of the, howevermany series there are on on
there and and then I sat himdown and then, cause, I was able
to see, you know, some of theparallels to life, to the ego,
(27:45):
to um, just every the matrix,all of the stuff that we're
navigating.
So I was trying to sit him downand give him a different
perspective of the movie.
Of course, uh, looking at theunderlying message under the,
under the movie, from my verylimited perspective right now,
Um and I was speaking to himthat I was asking God in the
(28:06):
past five years why there hasbeen no apparent change other
than inner change, right, Like Ihaven't moved from what I
normally do, I haven't had achange in household, I haven't.
Normally I used to move everytwo years.
Of course that was because Iwas looking for external to fill
the void Right.
(28:26):
And then in the past, and thenfinally now I don't move and I'm
still questioning it Right,Like why don't I move, Um?
Speaker 2 (28:33):
and then, yeah,
because the human mind is so
funny, isn't it?
Speaker 1 (28:39):
Yeah, and then it
came to me in a meditation that
I had to learn these sevenvirtues in the past five years
and those seven virtues equalthe seven sacred flames, and
there's in a lot of writingsthere's 35 virtues.
So far I was working on sevenand I just kind of completed
(29:02):
that cycle and I just noticedthat I engage in all the polar
opposites of those virtues.
So right, you have your likenegative and positive of the
virtues and the listeners canlook at it later and I noticed
how I experienced the negativeaspect, which is not necessarily
negative, but, and then I wasable to transmute it into the
(29:23):
positive virtue.
But I couldn't.
I kept asking why, why, why,why, why hasn't it the needle
moved past that threshold?
And then and now, when Ireceived the answer, I'm just
like I don't even care if theneedle moves now.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
I get it.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
Like it's okay, I'm
at peace with the process.
It's that surrendering, thatletting go.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
That's when things
move, because there's a
tremendous release of energyright there, and I think that
that is one of the things thatour brains want us to do always
is asking why.
And why is an analyticalquestion.
It engages the analytical mind,and the analytical mind has no
place in this arena, in thisparticular arena that we're
trying to talk about.
(30:09):
When you're trying to create anew future, if you knew all the
answers, that would mean it'salready created Nothing.
You can't create it.
You can't create somethingthat's been created.
You need to think of somethingthat's beyond your imagination,
(30:35):
and so the why and that how isreally, as so many of these
teachings tell us, is none ofour business in addiction.
That, I think, is reallyimportant for listeners to know
as well is that you mentioned.
Yes, it's heartbreaking to watchpeople go through addiction and
all of those kinds of things.
One of the things that I thinkpeople get really confused
(30:56):
around is there's a differencebetween true, pure sadness for
someone else's suffering andguilt or shame or anxiety, you
know, or fear, right, and so alot of times when people are
crying and stuff, I will askthem you know, but tell me about
these tears, tell me aboutwhat's causing the crying.
(31:19):
And I have them stop and thinklike is this pure sadness that
this is the state right now thatwe're in, or are you crying out
of?
Oh my God, I'm so terrible.
Or oh my God, what's going?
to happen or all that kind ofstuff, because that is not pure
grief, that is not letting goand that is a continuation of
(31:41):
the same unconscious process ofhow we treat ourselves, what our
mind does.
And when you talked veryearlier, you said something
about know thyself, and I thinkone of the most important things
for people to understand isit's really actually impossible
to know thyself.
The idea that we know who weare is insane, you know, because
(32:02):
if you know how much the brainis trying to process at any one
moment and how much is happeningsubconsciously versus
consciously, what is it?
Speaker 1 (32:12):
like 4,000 versus
like 64 billion?
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
It's like like 4
million to 440 billion or
something.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
It's just crazy.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
Yeah, it's like.
So there's so much happening ona subconscious level and if you
think about it, it's easy toimagine that.
If you really think about, likewhen you go for a walk, and
what you're paying attention to,and think about everything,
you're not paying attention toEvery breeze, every flower
that's out of the corner of youreye, every tree, even right now
, if you look in front of you,I'm looking at you.
(32:44):
This is where my focus is.
It's right here, but I've got adog over here and outside is
over here, and there's all ofthese things happening.
All of this stuff is coming intoour subconscious, right, it's
all coming in.
We're just not putting ourattention on it.
So I could move my attention tomy dog and then all of a sudden
, my dog becomes more real thananything else and this
(33:05):
conversation is less right.
And then there's a whole otherreality that's happening over
there.
Like I feel this way, or I amthis kind of person, or I am
that kind of person.
There is none of that.
You know, I have clients whowill say, well, I can't believe
(33:26):
this happened, I would never dothat, and I go talk about that
for a minute.
No, I would never, ever do that.
Well, let's unpack this.
In what other form have youdone that?
But what about last week, whenyou told me about?
Isn't that kind of similar?
And so, in order to do thiswork, we have to be able to be
(33:52):
humbled, you know.
We have to be able to say youknow, even the part of me that
maybe thinks, oh, I'm nevergoing to be able to do anything
or I'll never achieve anything.
That's actually kind of aself-important part, Like why
are you so special that youcan't do what these other people
did?
Right, it's the other side ofthe same coin.
So I wanted to get back to knowthyself because back in the day
(34:13):
I used to think that wasactually possible and to really
understand that our brains areway too advanced for us and we
have to constantly be vigilantabout who we're being in the
world.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
I love that and based
on my personal experience and
my near death experience, myknowledge is like 0.001 of the
infinite, is like almostimpossible for me to, at least
(34:53):
in this incarnation, in thisvery reduced version, this very
reduced version, with this verylimited perspective and just our
five senses and our consciousawareness, to even tap into the
whole.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
But in that moment
you probably were tapping into
like a much like you probablyknew yourself better than you
have ever known yourself, orthat most of us ever will know
ourselves.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
And still, even at
that point, I knew there was so
much more.
I didn't even know at thatmacro level.
So imagine at this tinyexperiential spirit, human
experience we're having we'reall doing the best we can have a
lot of love for yourself, a lotof compassion.
(35:37):
It's like a baby learning howto crawl and walk and I'm just
crawling and walking right, justlike you.
I have all my stuff that I needto learn and alchemize and
transmute and transcend.
Um, we're all just doing it indifferent ways, um, and it's
absolutely beautiful.
So I wanted to touch on Abby.
You were, you had a Ted talk.
(35:58):
I watched it.
Absolutely beautiful, veryimpactful.
How was that experience for you?
How did that kind of like comearound and how was that?
That's a huge impact to reachso many people and make an
impact at that level.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Yeah it.
You know that message issomething that I'm just so
passionate about, for women inparticular, and I share in the
Ted talk.
Um, you know the on my website,the the edit.
The things that were edited outare.
The clips are on my websitebecause there was some editing
which makes the story a littlechoppy.
I understand why they edited it.
I didn't realize at the time.
(36:37):
If I had, I could have toldthat story in a different way.
That wouldn't have caused themto edit it.
But I share in that TED Talk.
You know my experience of beingon the floor of a jail cell and
having an aha.
That was like wait a minute.
Yes, all these people betrayedme.
So I thought I was betrayed byall of these people that put me
(36:59):
here where I did not belong, andthen what happened was I had
this awakening, this moment ofwait a minute.
I betrayed me.
It was my behavior that got mehere.
It was my shame, my guilt, myunworthiness, my trying to prove
myself, my thinking I'm betterthan, or thinking I'm worse than
, or just all of theridiculousness of the autonomic
(37:23):
nervous system and adysregulated nervous system and
the mind and believing that I am.
My thoughts, you know insteadof no, no, no, my thoughts are
just, you know, there, and itwas that awakening that started
everything.
But then, years later, as Ishare in my TED Talk, going to a
(37:43):
middle school assembly for myson and seeing that young girls
are really having the exact sameexperience that I had 50 years
ago, is just heartbreaking to methat we are, as a society,
continuing to go on with thisunconscious unworthiness program
(38:06):
and that is driving so much ofour conversation, so much of our
choices in life.
If I do this, then I'll beworthy.
If I obtain that, then I'll beworthy.
I do this, then I'll be worthy.
If I obtain that, then I'll beworthy.
If I get this guy to like me,then I'll be worthy.
(38:28):
And it's very dangerous,particularly for women, because
there's this unconscious,conditioned belief that, you
know, our sexuality is the onlything that makes us worthy.
And that's where things getreally, really scary, I think,
(38:51):
for young girls.
And it's so important, I think,for us to realize along the
lines of what we women are nottreated this way and that way,
and we can keep teaching men tostop slapping asses and we can
keep all that stuff.
And I'm not saying we shouldn't, you know I'm not saying we
shouldn't, but no legislation inthe world is going to save a
woman who feels unworthy andcontinues to act that way in her
(39:15):
life.
She's going to draw thoseexperiences to her, and so
that's why, you know, I titledmy talk Women's Liberation is an
Inside Job, Like right.
We've got to do it inside herebecause, if you, you can.
I mean, we all know when we'rein those moments where we feel
horrible about ourselves, right,and someone says, no, you're
(39:35):
great, you can do it, oh my God,it doesn't do anything because
we are completely being ruled bythis craziness in our minds,
the craziness that is our mind.
It is only when we're able toovercome that.
Wait a minute, that thoughtdoes not belong in my future.
That's not the truth.
(39:55):
Let me take a moment and comeup with the truth, and the truth
isn't, by the way, that I'm thegreatest thing in the world
either.
That's not the truth either.
The truth is that I am a humansoul.
I am my essence right.
I am made in the light of God.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
You know, I repeat
something similar to that when I
walk my dog, like differentmantras and different things.
It's the first thing I do inthe morning, just rewiring my
subconscious mind.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
Yes, yes, Right, and
it's not something that's one
and done.
I love one of the things I wassharing with you before we
started that I love about yourpodcast is the humility with
which you approach it all Rightand and how really out there you
are with like look, we're not,I'm not evolved.
That doesn't happen.
Right Like you have, we havethis wealth of information.
(40:43):
Right Like, we know a lot,we've studied a lot, We've we've
helped people become verysuccessful, We've had our
successes.
It doesn't mean anything, itdoesn't mean crap in the.
We still wake up some days andwe got to do all kinds of shit
to overcome the body which wantsto say you're nothing, you
(41:06):
haven't done this, you haven'tdone that.
Whatever, whatever ourprogramming is Right.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
It's funny you
mentioned this because, as I was
telling you before we got on, Iwas doing these advanced
breathwork certifications andwhile I was doing it, one of the
things we spend a lot of timedoing was meditating with the
flame.
(41:31):
And in this meditation with theflame, I kept getting downloads
and visions.
I kept getting downloads andvisions and one of the main ones
was which I wasn't very happyto hear, was you are nothing,
you are nothing, you come fromnothing.
You are nothing, you come fromnothing, and that, to the ego,
(41:51):
is like the ego doesn't want tohear that, but it's actually
great news, right, yeah?
and then I said you know what?
I have to peel the onion ofthis because it's so heavy to my
ego, right?
And I, I meditated, meditatedon that and meditated on that,
(42:12):
and then I showed you the bookthat I shared with you.
The last 10 pages of that bookwas the confirmation I needed of
you are nothing, nothing andeverything at the same time.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
Exactly Nothing and
everything at the same time.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
No beginning, no end,
right that oras boras, of the
snake eating the tail, and it'svery different and may click for
some of us at some, and then Ican revisit this next year and
have a completely differentunderstanding of this.
Speaker 2 (42:44):
Right, and hopefully
we will right.
If we didn't, we wouldn't beevolving.
Yeah, who wants to stay thesame?
Like it's great news when wecan look at something and say,
oh God, I learned so much.
I thought I knew it all backthen, but it actually today.
I'm looking at it this way,right, like you know, I love
that Cause I.
Speaker 1 (43:01):
I, when I walk with,
when I walk with my wife, I talk
to her about, like um, I don'tknow, certain things we want to
accomplish, and I tell her, oh,now we're definitely ready.
I know, now we're ready, right.
And then, like five years afterthat, I said do you remember
when we used to say we wereready and we were like in
pampers, like there was?
(43:22):
No way we were ever going to beready for that.
So I don't know.
It's just.
It's funny how we look atthings.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
And, at the same time
, right, it's like then.
But then there's those timeswhere it's like, well, sometimes
you need to take the stepbefore you're ready.
Right, If we wait forever to beready, nothing will happen.
So I mean, at the end of theday, it's like, can we just have
compassion for where we are andwhat we're doing and can we
keep moving forward?
Can we keep taking that, thatstep forward, you know, can we
keep being open to newinformation and and just gosh,
(43:55):
you know, can we just loveourselves?
Can we just, you know, havecompassion, Cause this is it's
hard, it's really hard being ahuman being.
Speaker 1 (44:04):
Wow, that's.
I think that's.
That's kind of beautiful.
To kind of wrap it up kind oftowards the end.
I always like to say if there'sany messages, and also, what
are some of the you know, theofferings you have some of the
offerings you have, how canpeople work with you?
Is it one-on-one, Is it groups?
Do you have several things thatpeople can reach out and where
(44:26):
people can find you as well?
Speaker 2 (44:28):
Yes, yes, I keep a
small coaching caseload of
individual clients so I can befound on my website to reach out
for that.
I do groups.
I wrap a couple of differentgroups around the positive
intelligence work seven weeks toserenity for women and mental
(44:53):
fitness for men.
I am writing a course which I'mreally excited about, and so
that will be upcoming, whichwill be a combination of video
and then live sessions, and thenI have a women's, a young
women's group right now that hasopenings, and right now we're
doing a book study which isreally fun, but it's, I would
say, 37 and under.
(45:16):
You know, 40 and under is thatgroup which is also.
You can also find me at mywebsite for that.
So, uh, if you want to take uma free assessment for your
saboteurs, you can go to let'sconnectabbyhavermancom, and my
website is wwwabbyhavermancom.
Abbyhavermancom.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
Beautiful.
Thank you, abby, for being here, for your nuggets of wisdom,
your words, and your story hasresonated with me personally so
deeply.
I just see such a beautifulmirror of things I'm going
through and the things thatyou've already gone through.
I just want to let everybodyknow because sometimes, when we
(46:02):
have been doing the work for awhile whatever the work entails
for you whether it's spiritualor physical or however you're
approaching it, or 360, we alsoneed help.
We also need someone to holdour hand.
We also need help.
We also need someone to holdour hand.
(46:22):
We also need coaches.
We also need anotherperspective.
I'm just going to leave it atthat because I don't want to get
too, but I've been humbledenough times to know that we all
need someone.
Speaker 2 (46:39):
I always say get a
guide, just take in.
Always say get a guide, justtake in new information, get a
guide.
I rarely in my life have gonewithout a guide.
Speaker 1 (46:49):
Yeah, so you have
Abby here in human form as a
guide.
Reach out to her, takeadvantage of what she offers, of
the beautiful wisdom and energyand experience that she brings
into the space.
Um, she's basically been there,done that and still doing the
work every single day.
Um, so, if it resonated withyou, reach out to her.
(47:11):
Um, and take advantage of thefree offering that we're going
to list below as well, so thatyou can just have a chat and see
if it works.
Okay, we love you.
Thank you, abby, for being here.
Speaker 2 (47:24):
Oh my gosh.
Thank you, rosalina, thank youfor doing this, this podcast,
it's, it's really great.
Speaker 1 (47:29):
Thank you.