We speak with the dynamic new president of Pride Houston 365 - Kerry Ann Morrison. Then our own Glenn Holt interviews Jevon Martin about Houston Trans Pride. And finally speak with distinguished Grand Marshal Brandon Mack.
Queer Voices airs in Houston Texas on 90.1FM KPFT and is heard as a podcast here. Queer Voices hopes to entertain as well as illuminate LGBTQ issues in Houston and beyond. Check out our socials at:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello everybody, this is Queer Voices, a podcast
version of a broadcast radioshow that's been on the air in
Houston, texas, for severaldecades.
This week, brian Levinka talkswith Carrie Ann Morrison, the
new president of Pride 365.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
A lot of businesses are scaling back on how they
support any initiative that'sDEI-centered, so that is the
biggest challenge.
We've lost over $170,000 infunding and that is a big impact
because it takes almost$500,000 to do Pride.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
I get to go in front of the mic to talk with Jovan
Martin about the Houston TransPride event the evening of June
27th.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
It's just an event.
It's not the Trans Pride day,although that would be great.
It's a Houston Trans Prideevent.
It's a party where we're justgoing to celebrate who we are
Celebrate life.
That's June 27th, social beergarden at 7 o'clock.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Joel Tatum has a conversation with Brandon Mack,
the Distinguished Grand Marshalfor Houston Pride.
Speaker 4 (01:10):
Know that your voice is valued and know that you
don't have to wait.
Your turn is now.
Take up space, go to thosespaces and advocate for yourself
.
Go to those places and demandto be heard, because your voice
is valued and needed and no oneneeds to give you permission.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
And Brett Cullum and his husband Lee discuss staying
friends with an ex.
Queer Voices starts now.
Speaker 5 (01:39):
This is Brian Levink, and today I'm speaking with
Carrie Ann Morrison, the newpresident of Pride, houston 365.
Welcome to the show, carrie AnnMorrison, the new president of
Pride, houston 365.
Welcome to the show, carrie Ann.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Thank you.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 5 (01:50):
What is your story?
How did you end up in this role?
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Well, long story short, I was at an Afrotech
event and I was doing an offlinedating show called Take it
Offline.
I was interviewing folks and Ihappened to interview Deja
Madison, who is now ourCelebration Director, and she
said to me hey, I want you tomeet someone, and she introduced
me to Tiffany.
Tiffany then introduced me tothe organization.
(02:15):
I started helping out inmultiple ways and from there I
was put into a leadership roleof co-vice president and from
co-vice president I was put intoco-presidency and eventually
made it to the role of president.
So that's kind of the backstory.
And the reason I made it tothat position, or the position
(02:36):
where I am presently, is becauseI've served on multiple pride
boards.
I moved from Toronto, I livedin Toronto for quite a while and
I was there for Royal Pride,executed over six events during
Royal Pride as well, as I workedwith Pride Toronto during that
season, lived in New York for 10years and I worked with New
York Pride.
(02:56):
I've worked with Atlanta BlackPride and I lived in LA and I
worked with the Trevor Projectand with the Trevor Project I
was the person who was over allthe national pride, so just
making sure that they wereactivated in every pride across
the US.
Speaker 5 (03:12):
Wow, that's quite a resume.
How did you end up in Houston?
Speaker 2 (03:16):
I realized that, not by choice, but more so by soul.
Every 10 years I move and Idon't pick a place.
A place pick me.
I came here for vacation or Idon't want to say vacation.
I came here to visit a friendand just happened to say you
know what?
I'm not leaving.
And I never left.
I turned my apartment into anAirbnb, I shipped my car and
(03:42):
I've been here since.
Speaker 5 (03:43):
I have a saying that Houston is a fungus and it grows
on you.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
It's a good one.
Speaker 5 (03:51):
It's, I think it's the people that you get to meet
here, and it's just, there's alot of benefits to living here.
I just love living here, so I'mglad that you enjoy it too.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Thank you, and it very much so reminds me of
Canada, just the how wide thingsare from each other.
Right, you don't have housesstack on top of houses.
It's very clean, it's verydiverse and it's it's just has a
level of of of calmness to itthat I enjoy, and it very much
reminds me of Toronto.
Speaker 5 (04:19):
That's good.
I'm sure the weather is thesame right.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Oh no, it gets really cold.
Sure, the weather is the same,right.
Oh no, it gets really cold and,um, I don't want to say this
hot in the summer, but it canget up to this.
Speaker 5 (04:30):
Uh, these temperatures that we experience
in houston yeah, it gets verysteamy here in the summers oh
goodness, tell me about it.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
I was prepared for it , though, because I had um, I
lived, I stayed I don't want tosay I lived.
I stayed in Egypt for about twomonths just before I moved here
, and it gets to.
I want to say 150.
So when I came here, it's like,oh, this is normal.
Speaker 5 (04:52):
Well, I think we're glad that you're here.
We need a strong leadership inthe Pride Houston organization
and I think it sounds likeyou're the.
You bring the credentials tothe role.
What are the challenges thatyou face as president of Pride
Houston?
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Can.
What are the challenges thatyou face as president of Pride
Houston?
I can't say there's been manychallenges when it comes to
serving the community.
I think the most challenge thatI face is more so in
fundraising.
It's been a climate where DEIis a problem and a lot of
business are scaling back on howthey support any initiative
(05:26):
that's DEI centered.
So that is the biggestchallenge.
We've lost over $170,000 infunding and that is a big impact
because it takes almost$500,000 to do pride, to make
sure that everything you knowhappened, from the little things
to the greater big things.
So that's the biggest challenge.
Another challenge is I steppedinto the role after Planet
(05:50):
started, so having to kind ofget my feet wet, learning what's
done, picking up on the thingsthat weren't done and keep the
ship moving, even whenever therewas a hiccup or there was a
problem up or there was aproblem.
Another challenge is just whatpeople's idea of pride was or
you know little nuances thatthey may have had or problems
(06:15):
that they may have faced in thepast.
It's just making sure that Ihave a diplomatic approach to
mend those relationships and letpeople know that it's welcoming
.
We're open, let's open the door, let's have, have conversation
and let's work in unity.
So those were the the challengeI would say that I face.
So financial sustainability andthe first fundraising, which is
all because of the client, ofthe political climate and, of
(06:35):
course, volunteer um staff andcapacity.
Speaker 5 (06:38):
So those are the challenges how many people
usually attend this event.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
I've heard we've had upwards of 850,000.
Last year from the records Isee about 300,000.
This year, and I presumebecause there was a lot of
nuances last year.
But this year I'm expecting agood 300,000 to 400,000 because
people want to stand forsomething this year because
there's so many things that arebeing challenged and that we're
facing.
400,000 because people arereally there.
(07:04):
They want to stand forsomething this year because
there's so many things that arebeing challenged and that we're
facing.
So people are coming out to sayyou can't.
You know you can't.
You can't take my identity, youcan't take who I am, based on
the bills that you pass.
I'm still going to be me andI'm still going to show up, but
I'm still going to be resilientand resistant.
For someone who hasn't attendeda pride event what would you
(07:29):
tell them and what advice wouldyou give them?
Someone who have not attended apride event?
I remember my first pride.
It was in Toronto and you willfeel at home and I almost want
to get teary eyed because I'mJamaican and being queer, being
gay, being a lesbian is so wrong.
And I'm trying my best not toget emotional on this, but just
going there and telling myselfit doesn't matter what my family
thinks, it doesn't matter whatmy friends think.
I just want to find a communitywhere I feel safe, where I feel
(07:51):
love and where I might find my,my, my chosen family.
So I say go, because you neverknow what you might find and it
might give you the strength tostand tall in your, in your
sexuality, in your personality,in who you are as a human.
So go, because you may findyour chosen family and you may
find just that camaraderie andthat freedom to express yourself
(08:13):
with no inhibition, no hold, noshame, just pure freedom and
pure love.
Speaker 5 (08:21):
I know there's other events besides the parade.
Can you tell us about thoselove?
Speaker 2 (08:25):
I know there's other events besides the parade.
Can you tell us about those?
We have the Grand Marshalreception, which is on June 15th
at the Montrose Country Club,and that is where we're really
honoring our Grand Marshal.
We're reading the proclamation.
We're having a nice brunch it'sa drag brunch, so that's going
to be nice and more intimate.
We're encouraging people tocome out and celebrate.
Then we have Rock the Runway,and Rock the Runway is on June
(08:48):
25th.
It's at Warehouse Live, one ofthe most coveted fashion show.
I knew about Rock the Runwaybefore I knew about Pride
Houston that's how great it isand it's from 7 pm onwards.
And then we have Eden, which isthe all females event female
plus I will say a woman's pluswhere we welcome everyone, and
(09:11):
it is from 9 to 2 30.
We have quite a lot of djsthere, quite a lot of fun
activities and a special guest.
And then we have the parade andfestival, which is June 28th,
and there you have the festival,which is from 11 to 6.
We have recording artists andGrammy nominated writer Azeon,
(09:34):
who will be performing on stageshe's so soulful and that's from
11 to 6 again.
And then we have the nighttimeparade, which is from 7 to 10.
And then, promising and lovely.
We are working with Rich's JeffHarmon and we're doing the
official after party from 9 pmonwards at Rich's.
Speaker 5 (09:55):
For people that are excited about Pride this year
and they want to get involved.
What can they do?
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Oh, they can send me an email.
I like to speak with people, sosend me an email.
I like to speak with people, sosend me an email at
kmorrisonorg or celebrationorgor volunteerorg.
Speaker 5 (10:19):
Is there anything that I didn't ask you, that you
want our listeners to know about?
Pride, houston 365?
Speaker 2 (10:24):
One thing I do want people to know is to trust us
and believe in us again and giveus that ability to show you
what celebration looks like.
Come out, celebrate, show up innumbers, show up in power.
Yeah, that's it, I think that'swhere I'm going to leave it.
Show up in power.
Speaker 5 (10:42):
We're speaking with the president of Pride, houston
365, carrie Ann Morrison.
Thank you for coming on theshow, carrie Ann.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Coming up on Queer Voices.
Jovan Martin talks about theHouston Trans Pride event next
week, brandon Mack, thedistinguished Grand Marshal for
the Pride Parade, talks aboutactivism, and Brett and Lee
discuss what it means to stayfriends with your ex.
Did you know that KPFT iscompletely listener funded?
(11:15):
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That means you participate inour programming just by
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Please do that now by going tothe KPFT website and clicking on
(11:40):
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voices when you do.
Thank you, this is glenn, andI'm talking with jovan martin.
Jovan, what are we talkingabout?
Speaker 3 (11:55):
oh, thank you, glenn, for asking.
Today we're talking abouthouston trans pride what is
houston trans?
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Houston Trans Pride.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
What is Houston Trans Pride?
This is our fourth annualHouston Trans Pride.
We honor and give awards toadvocates and activists in the
community, also someentertainers and organizations
and businesses that are workingfor the better of the trans
community.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
What sort of awards do you give?
Speaker 3 (12:24):
We give Moving Trans History Forward Award, we give
the Lifetime Achievement Award,and that goes to podcasts people
(12:47):
that are using community viewsto teach about what's happening
in the community.
What better way to do that isthrough a podcast.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Tell me about this Trans Perspectives Award.
How long have you been doing it?
Who has won in the past?
What does it mean to youpersonally?
Speaker 3 (13:06):
So what it means to me personally, let's go there.
First, because Monica Robertsherself had Transgrio, and
Transgrio was her blog, her wayof keeping our history alive,
keeping the stories alive,telling the narratives of what's
(13:26):
happening to trans people herein Houston, because that's where
it started and she startedwriting about the trans women
murders, and so we wanted tokeep that going, and I myself,
in honoring her with the TransPerspectives Award, it goes to
the podcast.
(13:46):
So this year's recipient isTrans Truth.
So Trans Truth started out ofthe pandemic.
Prior to that was Marsha'sPlate, and Marsha's Plate talks
about trans perspectives.
Right, and I'm not sure if youknow who Diamond is, but Diamond
(14:06):
is just a great vlogger.
She does amazing work.
She's also an artist and shesings her heart out.
I love listening to her music.
So, yeah, we want to make surethat our history is celebrated,
our presence is celebrated, soanyone in the trans community
(14:26):
can be nominated for an award,and the way we choose is if they
have more than threenominations, then they will
receive an award.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
Personal question here.
Jovan, are you trans?
Speaker 3 (14:40):
Yes, I am trans.
Yes, I started my transitionback in the late 1990s and, yeah
, it was different a differentclimate, different part of our
history, whereas now things areso complex and I feel like I was
a part of shaping what thatpath looked like.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
And I see that your preferred pronouns are he, him,
his, so it sounds like this issomething you've always wanted
to do.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
Correct, so I also left out one of my major
pronouns, and that is king,because I am previously Mr Trans
, new York in the pageantryworld.
Tell me about that.
I was, 2020 and 2022, mr TransUSA for New York City and
(15:34):
actually New York State, and Iwent to compete in Milwaukee,
wisconsin, for the title and in2022, I was first runner up.
It was a great experience.
I had an amazing time inMilwaukee, wisconsin.
I learned a lot, met a lot ofpeople and that pageantry system
has grown.
If I'm correct, they are intheir fifth year and they have
(15:56):
grown immensely.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
And what was the transition like for you and what
?
Speaker 3 (16:02):
was the transition like for you?
My transition has.
It was different.
Back in the 90s you had to liveas the person in the gender
that you wanted to be in priorto receiving any type of hormone
replacement therapy, which istestosterone for trans men.
So, yeah, and my journey wasdifferent.
(16:23):
When I went to the therapist formy first session, the therapist
asked me so how long have youbeen interested in transitioning
to a female?
And I said, excuse me?
And they were like, yeah,you're here because you want to
be a female, correct?
And I was like no, I'm herebecause I want to be a male.
And the therapist looked at meand was like but you are male?
(16:45):
And I'm like, no, I'm not, Iwas born female at birth.
And in that moment thetherapist was like wait, what?
And the therapist was like well, I'm not too well versed on
transitioning that way I knowmore about males wanting to
transition into females way Iknow more about males wanting to
(17:06):
transition into females.
So from that day on, I nolonger went back to that person
and I no longer went to thatclinic either, and I made my way
to some other areas in theBronx and started my transition
and I worked with a doctor thatworked with me every step of the
way.
We did it together and it wasgreat.
And here I am today.
I have years under my belt as atrans guy.
(17:30):
My masculinity is I'm good.
You know how people say when isyour journey finish or when do
you stop transitioning?
As people, human beings, we allgo through a transition in life
.
So there's no end to atransition for me, and I'm
keeping it on myself becausewe're always evolving and doing
(17:51):
different things, whether it belife, uh, work, education.
So, yeah, my, I feel like whereI am in my health transition, I
am in a good space at themoment.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
You mentioned trans women murders.
Was that a problem at somepoint?
Speaker 3 (18:09):
Yes, and it's still a problem.
It has always been a problem.
When you talk about hate crimes, there's no separation from oh,
I didn't mean it.
No, a hate crime is a hatecrime.
And if you murder someone andtry to use the trans pandemic
(18:30):
defense, for me it's a littlebit late.
We're not even doing thatanymore and in my eyes, if
you're dating someone, you havea discrepancy.
You have a discrepancy, saywhat you need to say and that's
it.
You have no right to murdersomeone because your views, your
values don't match theirs.
You just don't.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
The awards that we were talking about.
Do they serve any kind offundraising function?
Speaker 3 (18:53):
Yes, so Houston Trans Pride is a celebration, right,
because oftentimes the transcommunity only gathers when
there's been a murder or when wehave to march for our rights,
for our lives, because there's athreat to our lives.
At this moment, with theadministration that is in office
, we're losing our health care,and health care is a human right
(19:18):
for the community, which is.
I'm still trying to wrap mymind around.
How do you take money away froman organization that is
assisting community members?
It just does not compute in myhead.
So what do we expect communitymembers to do without the
funding that they need to live?
(19:40):
It's not making sense to me.
And then you give it to therich so that they can continue
to be rich, but yet the peoplethat need the funding don't get
it.
Whole nother story.
So back to trans pride.
It's a day of joy, people, thetrans community that attends.
They don't have to pay to getin.
They don't have to pay for food.
The food is catered and I amworking on paying for drinks.
(20:03):
What that looks like at SocialBeer Garden would be.
We would pay for that.
So, yes, we are takingdonations for the cis community
allies.
Anyone that wants to supportHouston Trans Pride.
It's a $20 suggested donationat the door.
So also, we are looking forsponsors and that can be at any
(20:26):
amount.
However, we're asking them topay for the DJ if they can pay
for the drink package.
The food is already taken careof and, yeah, we'll have some
vendors tabling.
We'll have three vendorstabling.
There's a young lady and herhusband are coming to serve
cupcakes and candy.
(20:47):
So, yeah, it's going to be anawesome day where we celebrate
the community.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
This is Glenn.
I'm talking with Jovan Martinabout the Transgender.
Is it A Pride Day?
Speaker 3 (20:58):
It's just an event.
It's not the Trans Pride Day,although that would be great.
It's a trans Houston, trans anevent.
It's not the Trans Pride Day,although that would be great.
It's a trans Houston, transpride event.
It's a party where we're justgoing to celebrate who we are
Celebrate life.
That's June 27th, social BeerGarden at 7 o'clock.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
And before you get away, I want to get your take
your opinions on trans youth.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
The youth are the future and we need to give them
everything possible.
And if we're talking abouttrans youth, just listen to them
, right?
Just listen to the children,period.
We don't even have to putemphasis on trans kids.
Let's just talk about the youth, because the children are the
future.
We know this right Because wewere children and now we're in
(21:44):
leadership, and it's a cycle.
It's how it works.
So if a child comes to you andthey tell you how they feel,
what's going on with them,believe them, listen to them,
even if they're not sure whatthat looks like because we
weren't sure what it looked likewhen we were kids still support
them.
Don't say, oh, you don't knowwhat you're talking about,
(22:05):
that's a fad.
No, we're not doing this.
Listen to the children, hearthem out.
Just let them be their children, for God's sake.
They need to be worried aboutrunning around, having a great
time being kids, not worryingabout what adults are saying or
doing, being kids, not worryingabout what adults are saying or
doing.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
If I'm listening and I'm possibly transgender youth
or other transgender, how can Iget more information or how can
I get in touch with you for somehelp?
Speaker 3 (22:34):
Oh, you can Google my name Javon Martin, trans
activist, black trans advocate.
I will come up on all socialmedia and I am also a chaplain,
and so I do hold space for thosethat are in crisis.
And it's my duty and my honor,because when I had episodes or
(22:56):
even times of distrust and Ididn't know where to turn, it
was my community chaplain thatwas a safe space.
It was someone listening to meand not judging me.
So I'm here as a chaplain forthe whole community, for anyone,
not just the trans communityright, I didn't take an oath
(23:18):
just to be specific, for theLGBT community.
I'm here for anyone that's incrisis.
Also, just to add on aboutMonica Roberts anyone that knew
her knew that she was a big,bold black woman that didn't
stand down from a fight, and shealso supported the kids.
She supported the youth atevery aspect of her life, and
(23:42):
this is what we are doing, andit's very important that we
listen to the kids.
I cannot tell you how importantthat is.
And then I just want to leaveyou with one thing, glenn
Houston Trans Pride did notstart with us.
Houston Trans Pride was startedby Dee Dee Waters, and I
(24:04):
believe it was some years agothere was an organization.
I'm not sure what the name ofthe organization was, off the
top of my head, but yes, and sowe picked it up and we started
it from here, and it's been donebefore here in Houston, so
don't think that we are thefirst.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
Tell me again the name, the location and the date
and time of your event.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
It's at Houston Trans Pride and you can find it at
Social Beer Garden June 27th at7 pm and if you would like to
help, you can go togivebuttercom backslash Houston
Trans Pride.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
You can donate, you can support the organization you
can leave a message, JovanMartin, with Houston Trans Pride
.
This is Queer Voices.
This is KPFT 90.1 FM.
(25:05):
Houston 89.5 FM.
Galveston 91.9.
Speaker 6 (25:09):
FM Huntsville and worldwide on the internet at
kpftorg.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
This is Queer Voices.
For one day, the time will come.
This is Queer.
Speaker 6 (25:29):
Voices.
Today we are honored to bejoined by one of the 2025
Houston Grind Pride Marshals,brandon Mack.
This year's theme Celebrationis Our Legacy is all about
visibility, empowerment andunity, and Brandon Mack is a
shining example of all three.
Welcome and congratulations.
Thank you so much, joel,honored to be here.
(25:50):
Let's start with your reaction.
How did it feel to find out youwere chosen as a Grand Marshal
for Houston Pride 2025?
Distinguished.
Speaker 4 (26:01):
Grand Marshal, I should say I was incredibly
honored and it was a very, verypleasant surprise.
I previously was a part of theGrand Marshals for Black Lives
Matter Houston and that was anamazing honor.
Then to be kind of singled outfor the work that I've done in
the community just was an evenmore immense honor.
(26:22):
So it's a great, incrediblefeeling.
Speaker 6 (26:26):
For those who may not know you yet, can you share a
bit about your journey, who youare and what led you to this
moment in the community?
Speaker 4 (26:33):
As I often like to tell people when I introduce
myself, I am an activist,organizer, educator, all-around
angelic troublemaker.
I've been doing community workfor the last 20 years, starting
in advocacy with the HumanRights Campaign and then getting
involved in the Houston LGBTQPlus Political Caucus, been on
(26:57):
the Mayor's Advisory Board.
Now I'm on the CountyCommission as a vice chair,
being involved in the LGBTQ pluschamber of commerce.
So I've always been around andinvolved in the community in a
variety of different capacities,because for me it is about
representation and it's alwaysabout making sure that all of us
(27:17):
at all intersections, I'm sorry, did I hear Angelic?
Speaker 6 (27:22):
What was that Angelic ?
What was?
Speaker 4 (27:24):
the term angelic troublemaker.
I love that from um BayardRustin, who was an influence, uh
, on me and, of course, in ourcommunity, and he said that what
we really need in this world isa group of angelic
troublemakers.
And so I saw that quote, I waslike yep, that's me, and so I
(27:46):
always have taken it up eversince.
Speaker 6 (27:49):
Being a distinguished grand marshal is both an honor
and a platform.
What message or vision do youhope to share through this role?
Speaker 4 (27:55):
Especially right now, with what's going on in our
state, in our nation, in termsof the LGBTQ plus community, is
being under attack.
My voice and platform at thisparticular moment is for us to,
as we have done since thebeginning of time, to always be
present, to always be proud ofourselves and to remind the
(28:19):
world that we're going to behere and that we have a place in
space, in this world.
So, for me, that's the mainthing that I'm hoping to convey
this month and every month untilI leave this world.
Speaker 6 (28:32):
This year's theme celebration is our legacy.
We'll bring out a full spectrumof queer joy resistance in
history.
What does that personally meanto you, though?
Speaker 4 (28:40):
Once again, a reminder of the importance of
Pride Month and the importanceof taking that time to celebrate
ourselves.
We've all of us who are membersof the LGBTQ plus community
have been on a journey ofself-acceptance once again in a
world that often tells us not tobe ourselves.
So that's why it's so importantthat we take advantage of Pride
(29:01):
Month, that we take advantageof any opportunity to stop and
celebrate ourselves, because ithelps us to keep going, but it
also helps us to create thepossibility models for the next
group to come and take ouridentities and take this
celebration of ourselves evenfurther.
What this reminds me of is thatwe're looking in the past,
(29:23):
honoring those folks.
We're celebrating our present,but we're also celebrating a
bright future, despite what itmay look like right now 2025 has
brought some new challenges andvictories for our community.
Speaker 6 (29:35):
What issues or causes are most important to you right
now?
Speaker 4 (29:39):
The inclusion of our entire community is the LGBTQIA+
.
I'm a big fan of the plusbecause we are all ever-evolving
.
People always have newidentities that come up, but we
need to always make sure thatwe're always inclusive of our
entire community.
So that means that even if weare not a member or we identify
(30:02):
as a trans person, we still needto care.
So for me, one of the biggestissues right now is the attacks
that we're seeing happen at thelegislative level, in the state
and at federal levels, goingagainst our trans community.
We have to fight against that.
We have got to stand boldly andsay that trans is an identity,
(30:22):
that is a human identity thatneeds to be respected and
protected, just like everybodyelse.
So any sort of things that goagainst the trans community, I'm
like we all have got to goagainst those issues.
We have to fight against those.
Protect that community becauseonce again, they come for one,
they come for all and we allwant to be protected.
(30:44):
Other big issues for me iscurrently the book bans that are
going on, because, as aneducator, and how important that
is, especially at early ages,all the way up, and so once
again, it's important for us tosee ourselves reflected in
education, because when we seeeach other, it makes it that
(31:05):
much harder for us to devalueone another.
So that's why we've got to makesure that LGBTQ plus stories
are being told in the classroomand in the curriculum, along
with every other identity,because we all deserve to be
learned about and we all need tobe valued.
Speaker 6 (31:22):
Speaking of the LGBTQIA plus community.
The scene is pretty rich andresilient.
What excites you most aboutthis year's Pride celebration?
Speaker 4 (31:32):
What excites me most about this year's Pride
celebration is seeing theinclusion of so many wonderful,
amazing people that I've got achance to work with and also
have seen their amazing work inthe community.
We have a wonderful group ofgrand marshals, from our
distinguished grand marshals,our male-identified,
(31:53):
female-identified andnon-binary-identified and
trans-identified individuals.
So seeing amazing people beinguplifted and celebrated, seeing
more organizations, seeingamazing people being uplifted
and celebrated, seeing moreorganizations coming out and
making sure that they are knownin the community and, once again
, just being in community withone another.
We had a couple of years where,unfortunately, we weren't able
(32:14):
to celebrate the way that wewanted to because of the
pandemic, but we stillcelebrated anyway.
Just seeing once again the factthat we're coming together,
even at a time where it may seemlike we're under attack.
But that's the history of us asa community is that when we're
being fought against, we stillcome together.
Those are the things that areexciting me about this upcoming
(32:34):
year is that we're stillcelebrating, and also it's the
10th anniversary of marriageequality A great reason for us
to all come out and make surethat we're celebrating ourselves
and letting the world knowwe're still here, still queer,
and we're not going anywhere.
Speaker 6 (32:50):
What advice or encouragement would you give to
younger, queer folks looking toget involved or make a
difference?
Speaker 4 (32:55):
To my younger, queer folks who are looking to make a
difference value your voice,know that your voice is valued
and know that you don't have towait.
Your turn is now.
Take up space, go to thosespaces and advocate for yourself
.
Go to those places and demandto be heard, because your voice
(33:15):
is valued and needed and no oneneeds to give you permission.
You have the permission justfor sheer existence.
So that's my biggest advice tothem is to raise those voices up
, raise them loud and proudlyand keep fighting for yourselves
.
Speaker 6 (33:31):
Brandon Bay.
Thank you so much for sharingyour time and story with us.
Congratulations again on beingdistinguished grand Marshall.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
Part of our queer voices community listens on KPFT
, which is a non-profitcommunity radio station, and as
such, kpft does not endorse orhold any standing on matters of
politics.
If you would like Equal Airtimeto represent an alternative
point of view, please contact usthrough kpftorg or our own
(34:03):
website at queervoicesorg.
This is Queer Voices.
Speaker 7 (34:09):
Hi everyone, thanks for joining us.
R Lee Ingalls here and I'm herewith my husband, brett Cullum.
So this podcast today actuallystarted from a conversation we
had this morning which kind oftook a really interesting
direction.
We're trying to figure out somepodcasts for the future and one
of the topics was my book, thePrairie has a Rainbow.
At the very end of the book, oneof the last few paragraphs, I
(34:31):
stated that I had threelong-term relationships, one 11
years and two that were sevenyears, and both or all three of
them ended kind of spectacularly.
But I chose not to define thoserelationships by the last few
months that were kind of adisaster, but rather the years
that we lived together that wereactually good.
I said that I think in the gaycommunity we tend to be more
(34:56):
forgiving and eventually becomefriends with our exes.
I see that quite a bit.
I said I don't see that so muchin the straight world.
So I came away with theconclusion that the rule is, or
typically, that in the gay worldwe tend to be more friendly
after the fact than those in thestraight world.
Speaker 8 (35:14):
Yeah, no, and I think that there's a definite theme
there, and one that I've alwaysjoked about, because I've
remained friends with a lot ofmy exes, although a lot of them
have either moved away orthey've passed away.
Speaker 7 (35:28):
I have the same thing , yes.
Speaker 8 (35:30):
Yeah, I'm not sure what that says about me, but
okay, but I was reallyinterested because I was saying
well, I think that some straightpeople do that.
I think that on both sidesthere's probably that.
And so I started kind ofresearching a little bit and I
did find out that actually it'strue, lgbtq individuals,
especially gay men, are morelikely to remain friends with
(35:50):
their exes when you compare itto heterosexuals.
And they were saying that therewas a lot of various factors,
including kind of strong networksupports within LGBTQ plus
communities.
There's shared experiences,routines, the need for social
connections, that maybe we justaren't going to run into each
other more or that it's justeasier to kind of I don't know
(36:10):
maintain it.
I'm not sure what the secretsauce there is.
Speaker 7 (36:13):
So one of my exes did pass away, unfortunately, and
one of them the first one thatwe were together for 11 years
we're still friendly, mostly onone that we were together for 11
years.
We're still friendly mostly onFacebook, because we live so far
apart.
Yeah, the shared experiencesthat we had were good and that's
what I choose to hold on to.
And we both know those couplesin the straight world that get
divorced and the two of themcan't even be in the same room
(36:35):
after decades apart, which justI mean that doesn't make sense
to me, and I'm not trying tounderstand their world or
editorialize it at all, but Ijust say that I see that far too
often.
Speaker 8 (36:46):
Well, and to me I mean.
My personal philosophy is thatif I cared about you enough to
have a relationship with you, Istill want you to be in my life
Now.
Do I want you as a romanticpartner?
No, Do I want to be involvedwith you in any other way than
friendship.
(37:06):
No, but I still want to knowwhat happens to you.
I still want to support you.
I'm still in your corner andI'm still cheering for you and I
still want you to make it and Istill want you to be involved.
And I used to joke anytime thatI did a show like a theater
show previews I would invite atleast one ex to the previews
Because I knew that if anybodywas going to be honest with me
about whether the show was anygood or whether I was performing
(37:27):
well, it would be one of myexes and I absolutely made it
like a policy of at leastgetting one to come to a preview
and tell me, yeah, it's a goodshow or no, you really need to
run and this is bad.
Speaker 7 (37:39):
Right, right, what were you thinking?
So that's absolutely correct.
Once you go through thatspectacular ending, you can
guarantee that they are going tobe very frank about their
opinions going forward.
Speaker 8 (37:50):
Well, and that's nice to have, because you have so
many people in your life thateither want to impress you or
they want to ingratiatethemselves to you that sometimes
they're not honest.
And sometimes, when I ask foran opinion of work or something
that I'm producing or somethinglike that, I want an honest
opinion.
I'm not asking for you to justconfirm what I'm doing.
Speaker 7 (38:10):
Right, right, and we'll end in the same way too.
If I ask for your opinion, it'sI genuinely want what you think
about it, and what I do fromthere is my business, but I'm
actually looking for an honestopinion, yeah.
Speaker 8 (38:21):
But I mean it's hard for some people to do that, and
with the next, I mean they'vealready destroyed a relationship
with you, true?
Speaker 7 (38:27):
Okay.
Speaker 8 (38:28):
Are you going to get a?
Speaker 7 (38:29):
better.
Yeah, when you did the research, I did some more thinking about
what actually took place from arelationship and how we manage
areas that we don't.
So I don't think we don'tparallel on this.
We do, but how we think aboutit is different.
So this is kind of what I cameaway with.
So I stated what I thought frommy experience and all my input
was a rule and instinctively,you went to the exceptions to
(38:52):
that rule and started pointingout exceptions, and I agree with
that.
In every rule it's not 100%.
It's like 100% of the time, bethat there are going to be those
exceptions that we can go to.
And I thought, well, is thatjust to take the counterpoint,
or is that being argumentative?
And I thought so.
As I continued to think throughthat, I thought, well, wait a
second, you do the same thing.
(39:14):
And I referenced that there's abook that either you read or
your mother gave you orsomething.
There's a book that either youread or your mother gave you or
something.
And the only thing that Iremember about it is, if you
walk into someone's house andthey have lots of books, they're
this.
If they don't have lots ofbooks, then they're not that,
and that's the stated rule, andI came up with to that because I
feel like I might be anexception to that.
So and I thought, okay, so weboth do that.
(39:34):
So are we being counterpoint?
Are we being argumentative?
Speaker 8 (39:38):
I always want to look at both sides of an equation
and I always want to look at,well, what if it's this or what
if it's that?
And I think that there areobviously exceptions.
I know tons of people in ourworld, in the LGBTQ community,
that cannot be friends with anex.
They just have some kind ofimmunity to it.
It's not important to them.
(39:59):
They feel like, oh my gosh,this person betrayed me and I
will never speak to them againand they cannot be in the same
room.
Yeah, and then there are somestraight people, and I brought
up the famous celebrity coupleexample of Demi Moore and Bruce
Willis.
They had a big divorce andeverything, but now that Bruce
Willis' health is fading, demiMoore and her family are
actually stepping up and helpinghim.
And they're still friends andI've read a bunch of stuff
(40:21):
lately about some straightcouples where they remain
friends after the divorce, andcertainly in my personal
experience I don't see that asoften.
I mean, I definitely have in myown family.
There's lots of examples ofpeople getting divorced and
never talking again, and thencertainly with us, I mean, we
have friends.
So the general rule isobviously that we are more
(40:42):
likely to do that.
Speaker 7 (40:43):
Yeah well, and embrace the whole thing.
So I'm with you.
So I have a really large familyand there are a lot of exes.
I see kind of a mixture of both.
Mostly they don't talk to eachother, never want to see each
other again, but there are a fewthat do talk to their exes and
from mine and your perspectiveand experience, I have met some
of your exes and, even though Idon't think you've actually met
(41:03):
any of mine, you are friendswith at least one of them on
facebook.
Yeah.
So yeah, we, not only are wefriends ourselves, but our, our
spouses are friends with themthat's true.
Speaker 8 (41:14):
One of the things that I also looked at, too,
though, is I was looking at thedifferences in relationships
between the straight world andthe gay world.
They said that the averagestraight person has four to ten
partners or relationships, andthat they pretty much go about
3.7 relationships on average tofind the right one.
That was what they were saying,and some studies actually said
that men were more likely tohave more than women, that they
(41:34):
would have up to six, includinglike two long-term, basically,
yeah, and that that would be thething.
So, and then the, the gay men.
It said that we would have moreof a propensity to have more
relationships than that, andthat that might be a thing,
because sometimes we don't labelthem as serious.
There's a large percentage injust the general population of
gay men that are either in openrelationships or polyamorous or
(41:57):
things like that, so there's alittle bit of a fluidity there
already.
The stage for not having illwill when everything falls apart
.
I don't know.
It's a very interesting thing,and I think that another part of
the equation is thattraditionally straight marriages
are focused around kids, and Ithink that a lot of times you
have to remain friends with theex because you are going to
(42:18):
co-parent or you are going tohave a kid going forward.
Now, that's true with gayrelationships too.
Speaker 7 (42:23):
I've seen that where we've seen two gay men break up
but they've adopted kids andthey have to swallow that,
become friends just for the sakeof the kids yeah, but even then
I see it different becausethere's this, you know, there's,
like I said, there's I have it,my own family and there's some
animosity and some anger aroundthe relationship, even when it's
(42:44):
involving just the kids havingto manage the kids, and I don't
really see that so much in thegay community.
I think it's co-parenting.
I see it as a or pop in the gaycouples that I'm aware of.
Speaker 8 (42:54):
Well, how do you navigate this?
I mean, you were talking aboutyour examples and obviously
you've had what three majorrelationships before and before
us yeah, yeah, that, you wouldsay were that and you remain
friends with them to a degree,right, yeah?
Speaker 7 (43:08):
yeah, sadly, bob, the third one.
He passed away before we reallygot were able to kind of mend
from our separation.
But even those communicationswere happening.
But the other two.
So, roger, on number two, heused to come to my holiday
parties every year for a longtime until his, his new
boyfriend, passed away and thenhe kind of fell off the face of
(43:28):
the earth.
Even the people that I knew,that knew him then, are no
longer hearing from him.
So I don't know what happenedthere.
But my first one, devon, westill chat on facebook.
We haven't talked to each otherin quite a long time.
I talked to him and his otherfamily members as well.
That communication has alwaysbeen there.
Like I said, I'm not going tomeasure our relationship by how
it dissolved, but by the yearsthat it was good and we did.
(43:51):
I mean we had a lot of goodtimes.
We were both very young at thetime, we did a lot of things
together and it was fun.
So why not focus on that?
Speaker 8 (43:57):
No, I agree with you, although I've had some serious
relationships where I feel likethe other person could not be
friends afterwards.
I don't know what it was.
Sometimes it was when I wouldenter into another relationship.
It kind of really fizzled and Ithink that that kind of like
almost that jealousy of, oh mygosh, you're moving on.
It's tricky to navigate,especially when one of you if
you're both single after, afteryou break up, it seems like it's
(44:19):
easier.
If one of you ends up in arelationship eventually or later
, then I think sometimes it getsa little bit weird and I don't
know.
Speaker 7 (44:27):
I just I felt some discomfort from some exes with
that and around you know, I waskind of the opposite, or at
least for me personally.
I was the opposite.
I was happy when my exes metsomebody else and started dating
someone else, because thatmeant I was fully off the hook.
When I'm done, I'm done.
I didn't want any of this backand forth stuff and possibility
of anything.
(44:47):
The only thing that's possibleis being friends and not hate
each other.
That's all that's possible.
Speaker 8 (44:53):
That's the only thing that's possible.
We're not going to hate eachother, but I always found some
comfort in having friendsBecause I mean, let's face it,
if you have an ex, they've seenyou at your best.
They've also seen you at yourworst and you can have, like I
said, you can have those honestconversations with them and they
kind of know where things aregoing to go wrong for you.
(45:14):
I hate to say it.
Speaker 7 (45:18):
Yeah Well, if they wanted to hit a hot button, they
know which ones to hit.
So there is that.
Speaker 8 (45:21):
However, I've never had that experience no, I've
never had that experience either, but I do appreciate the
insight and just having thatkind of a friend that you can
bounce things off of, that theyknow kind of how you're going to
react.
You know, I mean most of ourfriends do anyway, I mean most
of our friends are very closefriends.
Yes, we've known them for years.
We have a very strange circleof friends, I would say, by most
(45:42):
people's measure, because we'vehad friends.
Some of mine have been, youknow, over 40, some of yours
have been over 40.
I mean, it's just like it goescrazy when you think about it.
So it's hard and, and maybethat's why we're easier to
navigate, that maybe we're justlong-term people.
Speaker 7 (45:58):
Yeah, I don't know, that could be, that could be.
Speaker 8 (46:00):
I mean, although I certainly have had my, my
friends that have not lasted aslong, that have been like
acquaintances that I've knownfor a season, especially when
you look at like theater stuff,particularly like when you were
in your dance days.
Did you have people that youwere just friends with when you
were just in that company?
Speaker 7 (46:14):
right.
Right, because of proximity,we're very, we're close to each
other, seeing each other everyday in the same space, so we
became friends.
But then answers, I would sayare at least from back in those
days very much.
In the moment when theircircumstance changes, then
everything changes and most ofthem I lost touch with.
I have rekindled some of thosefriendships because of Facebook.
(46:34):
I'm on Facebook now, but manyof them I've never heard from
again, and not because I didn'twant to, or if I saw them again
today I wouldn't embrace themand pick up where we're left off
.
But yeah, it was a verytransient community.
Speaker 8 (46:46):
You know, social media has been wonderful for
doing that.
One of the things is like whenI was doing research for this, I
did find a very supportivearticle in Psychology Today, of
all places, that basically saidthat as a community, we just
have a unique degree ofimportance on retaining
emotional support, advice, trustand shared memories, and that
absolutely lines up with whatI've said, that you've got these
(47:08):
things.
And they said that we are morelikely to go out of our way to
maintain a relationship thanmaybe a heterosexual counterpart
, that we are actually going tomake sure that happens.
Speaker 7 (47:18):
We make the calls, we set up the planned gatherings,
all that kind of stuff.
We were very good about doingthat to parties.
Speaker 8 (47:26):
So we're going to invite them to parties here.
You can come to my party.
Speaker 7 (47:29):
So one more question came to mind.
So does that constitute anargument between us?
Speaker 5 (47:33):
Did we?
Speaker 7 (47:33):
argue.
Speaker 4 (47:34):
No.
Speaker 7 (47:34):
I didn't think so either, because I thought you,
from my perspective, I don'tfeel that passionate about
either one of those issues thatI brought up to take a stand,
any serious stand, on it.
Yeah, so I agree.
Speaker 8 (47:44):
No, that was not an argument no, I think it's fun to
debate things.
I think so too, and I think youshould, and I think it's
healthy in any relationship,whether it's friend, whether
it's co -worker, whether it'syour partner, your spouse, your,
however you define yourrelationship.
I think it's healthy to.
I think that's what we're herefor aren't we yeah?
I mean that's challenge people'sbeliefs, talk about things,
maybe look at the other side too.
(48:05):
I don't know.
I mean I think that that'salways been an instinct of me to
want to kind of look at.
Like Joni Mitchell says, I'velooked at both sides now.
I mean it's that whole thing oflike I want to out, like where
is this coming from and what arethe counterpoints to this?
Speaker 7 (48:19):
and right, and having the discussion helps you
crystallize your thought on ityeah so yeah, and possibly
change it, although that mightbe more difficult no, I think it
is difficult to make yousometimes change those.
Speaker 8 (48:33):
It's hard.
It's like we always talk aboutin social media and like one of
the things about having friendsfrom the past at social media.
Sometimes you find out that, ohmy gosh, their political views
are completely different thanmine, yes, and that makes it
hard.
I mean, and then, like you,have a different strain on that
relationship.
Do you ignore that or do you?
I mean, how do you handle that?
Speaker 7 (48:52):
yeah.
So obviously it depends on whatthe relationship is and how
close you are and and fond eachother you are.
But from my perspective, ifwhat you're doing is harmful to
another group of people, I havea really hard time ignoring that
.
I might not completely distancemyself, but I might limit my
(49:13):
exposure somewhat.
Speaker 8 (49:14):
You know, I have to look at the source of our
friendship and where it camefrom.
If it is a deep-seatedfriendship that has spanned
years and years and decades anddecades, I am more likely to be
forgiving of that.
But if we are more casual, morerecent friends, then I'm
probably going to see that aslike oh well, maybe we should
rethink this, because I'm notsure how to do this, but I
(49:37):
navigate it differently withdifferent people.
Speaker 7 (49:38):
I mean that's what I think is weird.
I do too, and you're right.
It depends on the depth andtime and just how fond of that
person I am.
Yeah.
Speaker 8 (49:47):
And if they're an ex, I'm probably going to make fun
of them.
I'm just kidding.
Speaker 7 (49:51):
I can guarantee you, I will Talk about them behind
their back everything.
No, I'll judge their face.
No, no, no.
When I say talk about thembehind their back, I mean
they're standing next to me withtheir back to me.
They can still hear me.
Speaker 8 (50:03):
Oh no, we're a mess.
Okay, yes, but I thought it wasinteresting that they actually
have these research things thatsays this is a common phenomenon
, even though they said thatit's kind of more of a media
thing that they thought at first, but then when they actually
plunged into it, they kind offigured out that it's just the
fact that we have to.
Speaker 7 (50:21):
I mean, it's easier for us to do that, I guess, in a
weird way I know, I don't knowwhat the how that is actually
the case, but it does.
Speaker 8 (50:28):
As I said, it does appear to be the case it seems
interesting to me that a man anda woman are more likely to not
be friends later, as opposed toa man and a man or a woman and a
woman.
It just I don't understand howthat happens, other than maybe
it's just the way that the worldworks maybe maybe it's not as
socially acceptable to befriends.
It's like that when harry metsally movie cliche of how can
(50:50):
you be friends with a woman, youknow when you're a man.
But we have the same kind ofequation.
I mean, how can you be friendswith a guy when you have a
significant partner or marriedor whatever you know, and yet we
do.
It's an interesting conundrum,I think, and when that was, I
thought was an interestingconversation.
Speaker 7 (51:08):
Yeah, yeah, and it was.
It was very interesting thismorning the whole process of
getting ready for this podcast.
Yeah, it was a very interestingjourney.
Speaker 8 (51:15):
So that's great.
So we've established that weare both kind of sort of friends
with most of our exes althoughI think I have more exes that
I'm not friends with than youand it was mainly because they
wanted it that way.
I didn't want it that way, butthey did and I wanted to respect
their wish for the clean break.
Yeah, I didn't want to to pushthat topic or make them feel
uncomfortable, say, hey, youhave to do this or you know I'm
(51:36):
gonna hound you.
But but I did reach out, likeif I heard of anything that
happened to them, I would sendlike a letter or a card or
something to just say, hey, I'mthinking about you, I hope that
everything works out.
You know, if I heard ofsomething that happened to them,
yeah, and I would do the samething.
Speaker 7 (51:50):
Yeah, all right.
Speaker 8 (51:52):
Well then, I guess we are off the hook until next
time when we have a heatedconversation in the kitchen and
it ends up on the podcast.
Speaker 1 (52:15):
This has been Queer Voices, heard on KPFT Houston
and as a podcast available fromseveral podcasting sources.
Check our webpage queervoicesfor more information.
Queer Voices executive produceris Brian Levinka.
Deborah Moncrief-Bell isco-producer, brett Cullum and
David Mendoza-Druzman arecontributors.
The News Wrap segment is partof another podcast called this
(52:39):
way out, which is produced inlos angeles some of the material
in this program has been editedto improve clarity and runtime.
Speaker 9 (52:46):
This program does not endorse any political views or
animal species.
Views, opinions andendorsements are those of the
participants and theorganizations they represent.
In case of death, pleasediscontinue use and discard
remaining product for queervoices I'm glenn holt.
Speaker 1 (52:58):
For Queer Voices I'm Glenn Holt.
Hello everybody, this is Queer Voices, a podcast
version of a broadcast radioshow that's been on the air in
Houston, texas, for severaldecades.
This week, brian Levinka talkswith Carrie Ann Morrison, the
new president of Pride 365.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
A lot of businesses are scaling back on how they
support any initiative that'sDEI-centered, so that is the
biggest challenge.
We've lost over $170,000 infunding and that is a big impact
because it takes almost$500,000 to do Pride.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
I get to go in front of the mic to talk with Jovan
Martin about the Houston TransPride event the evening of June
27th.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
It's just an event.
It's not the Trans Pride day,although that would be great.
It's a Houston Trans Prideevent.
It's a party where we're justgoing to celebrate who we are
Celebrate life.
That's June 27th, social beergarden at 7 o'clock.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Joel Tatum has a conversation with Brandon Mack,
the Distinguished Grand Marshalfor Houston Pride.
Speaker 4 (01:10):
Know that your voice is valued and know that you
don't have to wait.
Your turn is now.
Take up space, go to thosespaces and advocate for yourself
.
Go to those places and demandto be heard, because your voice
is valued and needed and no oneneeds to give you permission.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
And Brett Cullum and his husband Lee discuss staying
friends with an ex.
Queer Voices starts now.
Speaker 5 (01:39):
This is Brian Levink, and today I'm speaking with
Carrie Ann Morrison, the newpresident of Pride, houston 365.
Welcome to the show, carrie AnnMorrison, the new president of
Pride, houston 365.
Welcome to the show, carrie Ann.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Thank you.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 5 (01:50):
What is your story?
How did you end up in this role?
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Well, long story short, I was at an Afrotech
event and I was doing an offlinedating show called Take it
Offline.
I was interviewing folks and Ihappened to interview Deja
Madison, who is now ourCelebration Director, and she
said to me hey, I want you tomeet someone, and she introduced
me to Tiffany.
Tiffany then introduced me tothe organization.
(02:15):
I started helping out inmultiple ways and from there I
was put into a leadership roleof co-vice president and from
co-vice president I was put intoco-presidency and eventually
made it to the role of president.
So that's kind of the backstory.
And the reason I made it tothat position, or the position
(02:36):
where I am presently, is becauseI've served on multiple pride
boards.
I moved from Toronto, I livedin Toronto for quite a while and
I was there for Royal Pride,executed over six events during
Royal Pride as well, as I workedwith Pride Toronto during that
season, lived in New York for 10years and I worked with New
York Pride.
(02:56):
I've worked with Atlanta BlackPride and I lived in LA and I
worked with the Trevor Projectand with the Trevor Project I
was the person who was over allthe national pride, so just
making sure that they wereactivated in every pride across
the US.
Speaker 5 (03:12):
Wow, that's quite a resume.
How did you end up in Houston?
Speaker 2 (03:16):
I realized that, not by choice, but more so by soul.
Every 10 years I move and Idon't pick a place.
A place pick me.
I came here for vacation or Idon't want to say vacation.
I came here to visit a friendand just happened to say you
know what?
I'm not leaving.
And I never left.
I turned my apartment into anAirbnb, I shipped my car and
(03:42):
I've been here since.
Speaker 5 (03:43):
I have a saying that Houston is a fungus and it grows
on you.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
It's a good one.
Speaker 5 (03:51):
It's, I think it's the people that you get to meet
here, and it's just, there's alot of benefits to living here.
I just love living here, so I'mglad that you enjoy it too.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Thank you, and it very much so reminds me of
Canada, just the how wide thingsare from each other.
Right, you don't have housesstack on top of houses.
It's very clean, it's verydiverse and it's it's just has a
level of of of calmness to itthat I enjoy, and it very much
reminds me of Toronto.
Speaker 5 (04:19):
That's good.
I'm sure the weather is thesame right.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Oh no, it gets really cold.
Sure, the weather is the same,right.
Oh no, it gets really cold and,um, I don't want to say this
hot in the summer, but it canget up to this.
Speaker 5 (04:30):
Uh, these temperatures that we experience
in houston yeah, it gets verysteamy here in the summers oh
goodness, tell me about it.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
I was prepared for it , though, because I had um, I
lived, I stayed I don't want tosay I lived.
I stayed in Egypt for about twomonths just before I moved here
, and it gets to.
I want to say 150.
So when I came here, it's like,oh, this is normal.
Speaker 5 (04:52):
Well, I think we're glad that you're here.
We need a strong leadership inthe Pride Houston organization
and I think it sounds likeyou're the.
You bring the credentials tothe role.
What are the challenges thatyou face as president of Pride
Houston?
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Can.
What are the challenges thatyou face as president of Pride
Houston?
I can't say there's been manychallenges when it comes to
serving the community.
I think the most challenge thatI face is more so in
fundraising.
It's been a climate where DEIis a problem and a lot of
business are scaling back on howthey support any initiative
(05:26):
that's DEI centered.
So that is the biggestchallenge.
We've lost over $170,000 infunding and that is a big impact
because it takes almost$500,000 to do pride, to make
sure that everything you knowhappened, from the little things
to the greater big things.
So that's the biggest challenge.
Another challenge is I steppedinto the role after Planet
(05:50):
started, so having to kind ofget my feet wet, learning what's
done, picking up on the thingsthat weren't done and keep the
ship moving, even whenever therewas a hiccup or there was a
problem up or there was aproblem.
Another challenge is just whatpeople's idea of pride was or
you know little nuances thatthey may have had or problems
(06:15):
that they may have faced in thepast.
It's just making sure that Ihave a diplomatic approach to
mend those relationships and letpeople know that it's welcoming
.
We're open, let's open the door, let's have, have conversation
and let's work in unity.
So those were the the challengeI would say that I face.
So financial sustainability andthe first fundraising, which is
all because of the client, ofthe political climate and, of
(06:35):
course, volunteer um staff andcapacity.
Speaker 5 (06:38):
So those are the challenges how many people
usually attend this event.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
I've heard we've had upwards of 850,000.
Last year from the records Isee about 300,000.
This year, and I presumebecause there was a lot of
nuances last year.
But this year I'm expecting agood 300,000 to 400,000 because
people want to stand forsomething this year because
there's so many things that arebeing challenged and that we're
facing.
400,000 because people arereally there.
(07:04):
They want to stand forsomething this year because
there's so many things that arebeing challenged and that we're
facing.
So people are coming out to sayyou can't.
You know you can't.
You can't take my identity, youcan't take who I am, based on
the bills that you pass.
I'm still going to be me andI'm still going to show up, but
I'm still going to be resilientand resistant.
For someone who hasn't attendeda pride event what would you
(07:29):
tell them and what advice wouldyou give them?
Someone who have not attended apride event?
I remember my first pride.
It was in Toronto and you willfeel at home and I almost want
to get teary eyed because I'mJamaican and being queer, being
gay, being a lesbian is so wrong.
And I'm trying my best not toget emotional on this, but just
going there and telling myselfit doesn't matter what my family
thinks, it doesn't matter whatmy friends think.
I just want to find a communitywhere I feel safe, where I feel
(07:51):
love and where I might find my,my, my chosen family.
So I say go, because you neverknow what you might find and it
might give you the strength tostand tall in your, in your
sexuality, in your personality,in who you are as a human.
So go, because you may findyour chosen family and you may
find just that camaraderie andthat freedom to express yourself
(08:13):
with no inhibition, no hold, noshame, just pure freedom and
pure love.
Speaker 5 (08:21):
I know there's other events besides the parade.
Can you tell us about thoselove?
Speaker 2 (08:25):
I know there's other events besides the parade.
Can you tell us about those?
We have the Grand Marshalreception, which is on June 15th
at the Montrose Country Club,and that is where we're really
honoring our Grand Marshal.
We're reading the proclamation.
We're having a nice brunch it'sa drag brunch, so that's going
to be nice and more intimate.
We're encouraging people tocome out and celebrate.
Then we have Rock the Runway,and Rock the Runway is on June
(08:48):
25th.
It's at Warehouse Live, one ofthe most coveted fashion show.
I knew about Rock the Runwaybefore I knew about Pride
Houston that's how great it isand it's from 7 pm onwards.
And then we have Eden, which isthe all females event female
plus I will say a woman's pluswhere we welcome everyone, and
(09:11):
it is from 9 to 2 30.
We have quite a lot of djsthere, quite a lot of fun
activities and a special guest.
And then we have the parade andfestival, which is June 28th,
and there you have the festival,which is from 11 to 6.
We have recording artists andGrammy nominated writer Azeon,
(09:34):
who will be performing on stageshe's so soulful and that's from
11 to 6 again.
And then we have the nighttimeparade, which is from 7 to 10.
And then, promising and lovely.
We are working with Rich's JeffHarmon and we're doing the
official after party from 9 pmonwards at Rich's.
Speaker 5 (09:55):
For people that are excited about Pride this year
and they want to get involved.
What can they do?
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Oh, they can send me an email.
I like to speak with people, sosend me an email.
I like to speak with people, sosend me an email at
kmorrisonorg or celebrationorgor volunteerorg.
Speaker 5 (10:19):
Is there anything that I didn't ask you, that you
want our listeners to know about?
Pride, houston 365?
Speaker 2 (10:24):
One thing I do want people to know is to trust us
and believe in us again and giveus that ability to show you
what celebration looks like.
Come out, celebrate, show up innumbers, show up in power.
Yeah, that's it, I think that'swhere I'm going to leave it.
Show up in power.
Speaker 5 (10:42):
We're speaking with the president of Pride, houston
365, carrie Ann Morrison.
Thank you for coming on theshow, carrie Ann.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Coming up on Queer Voices.
Jovan Martin talks about theHouston Trans Pride event next
week, brandon Mack, thedistinguished Grand Marshal for
the Pride Parade, talks aboutactivism, and Brett and Lee
discuss what it means to stayfriends with your ex.
Did you know that KPFT iscompletely listener funded?
(11:15):
There are no underwriters, soit's up to all of us to pay for
the freedom to say what you hearhere on Queer Voices and on
this station in general.
That means you participate inour programming just by
listening and also by pledgingyour support.
Please do that now by going tothe KPFT website and clicking on
(11:40):
the red Donate Now button, andplease mention Queer queer
voices when you do.
Thank you, this is glenn, andI'm talking with jovan martin.
Jovan, what are we talkingabout?
Speaker 3 (11:55):
oh, thank you, glenn, for asking.
Today we're talking abouthouston trans pride what is
houston trans?
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Houston Trans Pride.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
What is Houston Trans Pride?
This is our fourth annualHouston Trans Pride.
We honor and give awards toadvocates and activists in the
community, also someentertainers and organizations
and businesses that are workingfor the better of the trans
community.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
What sort of awards do you give?
Speaker 3 (12:24):
We give Moving Trans History Forward Award, we give
the Lifetime Achievement Award,and that goes to podcasts people
(12:47):
that are using community viewsto teach about what's happening
in the community.
What better way to do that isthrough a podcast.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Tell me about this Trans Perspectives Award.
How long have you been doing it?
Who has won in the past?
What does it mean to youpersonally?
Speaker 3 (13:06):
So what it means to me personally, let's go there.
First, because Monica Robertsherself had Transgrio, and
Transgrio was her blog, her wayof keeping our history alive,
keeping the stories alive,telling the narratives of what's
(13:26):
happening to trans people herein Houston, because that's where
it started and she startedwriting about the trans women
murders, and so we wanted tokeep that going, and I myself,
in honoring her with the TransPerspectives Award, it goes to
the podcast.
(13:46):
So this year's recipient isTrans Truth.
So Trans Truth started out ofthe pandemic.
Prior to that was Marsha'sPlate, and Marsha's Plate talks
about trans perspectives.
Right, and I'm not sure if youknow who Diamond is, but Diamond
(14:06):
is just a great vlogger.
She does amazing work.
She's also an artist and shesings her heart out.
I love listening to her music.
So, yeah, we want to make surethat our history is celebrated,
our presence is celebrated, soanyone in the trans community
(14:26):
can be nominated for an award,and the way we choose is if they
have more than threenominations, then they will
receive an award.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
Personal question here.
Jovan, are you trans?
Speaker 3 (14:40):
Yes, I am trans.
Yes, I started my transitionback in the late 1990s and, yeah
, it was different a differentclimate, different part of our
history, whereas now things areso complex and I feel like I was
a part of shaping what thatpath looked like.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
And I see that your preferred pronouns are he, him,
his, so it sounds like this issomething you've always wanted
to do.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
Correct, so I also left out one of my major
pronouns, and that is king,because I am previously Mr Trans
, new York in the pageantryworld.
Tell me about that.
I was, 2020 and 2022, mr TransUSA for New York City and
(15:34):
actually New York State, and Iwent to compete in Milwaukee,
wisconsin, for the title and in2022, I was first runner up.
It was a great experience.
I had an amazing time inMilwaukee, wisconsin.
I learned a lot, met a lot ofpeople and that pageantry system
has grown.
If I'm correct, they are intheir fifth year and they have
(15:56):
grown immensely.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
And what was the transition like for you and what
?
Speaker 3 (16:02):
was the transition like for you?
My transition has.
It was different.
Back in the 90s you had to liveas the person in the gender
that you wanted to be in priorto receiving any type of hormone
replacement therapy, which istestosterone for trans men.
So, yeah, and my journey wasdifferent.
(16:23):
When I went to the therapist formy first session, the therapist
asked me so how long have youbeen interested in transitioning
to a female?
And I said, excuse me?
And they were like, yeah,you're here because you want to
be a female, correct?
And I was like no, I'm herebecause I want to be a male.
And the therapist looked at meand was like but you are male?
(16:45):
And I'm like, no, I'm not, Iwas born female at birth.
And in that moment thetherapist was like wait, what?
And the therapist was like well, I'm not too well versed on
transitioning that way I knowmore about males wanting to
transition into females way Iknow more about males wanting to
(17:06):
transition into females.
So from that day on, I nolonger went back to that person
and I no longer went to thatclinic either, and I made my way
to some other areas in theBronx and started my transition
and I worked with a doctor thatworked with me every step of the
way.
We did it together and it wasgreat.
And here I am today.
I have years under my belt as atrans guy.
(17:30):
My masculinity is I'm good.
You know how people say when isyour journey finish or when do
you stop transitioning?
As people, human beings, we allgo through a transition in life
.
So there's no end to atransition for me, and I'm
keeping it on myself becausewe're always evolving and doing
(17:51):
different things, whether it belife, uh, work, education.
So, yeah, my, I feel like whereI am in my health transition, I
am in a good space at themoment.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
You mentioned trans women murders.
Was that a problem at somepoint?
Speaker 3 (18:09):
Yes, and it's still a problem.
It has always been a problem.
When you talk about hate crimes, there's no separation from oh,
I didn't mean it.
No, a hate crime is a hatecrime.
And if you murder someone andtry to use the trans pandemic
(18:30):
defense, for me it's a littlebit late.
We're not even doing thatanymore and in my eyes, if
you're dating someone, you havea discrepancy.
You have a discrepancy, saywhat you need to say and that's
it.
You have no right to murdersomeone because your views, your
values don't match theirs.
You just don't.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
The awards that we were talking about.
Do they serve any kind offundraising function?
Speaker 3 (18:53):
Yes, so Houston Trans Pride is a celebration, right,
because oftentimes the transcommunity only gathers when
there's been a murder or when wehave to march for our rights,
for our lives, because there's athreat to our lives.
At this moment, with theadministration that is in office
, we're losing our health care,and health care is a human right
(19:18):
for the community, which is.
I'm still trying to wrap mymind around.
How do you take money away froman organization that is
assisting community members?
It just does not compute in myhead.
So what do we expect communitymembers to do without the
funding that they need to live?
(19:40):
It's not making sense to me.
And then you give it to therich so that they can continue
to be rich, but yet the peoplethat need the funding don't get
it.
Whole nother story.
So back to trans pride.
It's a day of joy, people, thetrans community that attends.
They don't have to pay to getin.
They don't have to pay for food.
The food is catered and I amworking on paying for drinks.
(20:03):
What that looks like at SocialBeer Garden would be.
We would pay for that.
So, yes, we are takingdonations for the cis community
allies.
Anyone that wants to supportHouston Trans Pride.
It's a $20 suggested donationat the door.
So also, we are looking forsponsors and that can be at any
(20:26):
amount.
However, we're asking them topay for the DJ if they can pay
for the drink package.
The food is already taken careof and, yeah, we'll have some
vendors tabling.
We'll have three vendorstabling.
There's a young lady and herhusband are coming to serve
cupcakes and candy.
(20:47):
So, yeah, it's going to be anawesome day where we celebrate
the community.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
This is Glenn.
I'm talking with Jovan Martinabout the Transgender.
Is it A Pride Day?
Speaker 3 (20:58):
It's just an event.
It's not the Trans Pride Day,although that would be great.
It's a trans Houston, trans anevent.
It's not the Trans Pride Day,although that would be great.
It's a trans Houston, transpride event.
It's a party where we're justgoing to celebrate who we are
Celebrate life.
That's June 27th, social BeerGarden at 7 o'clock.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
And before you get away, I want to get your take
your opinions on trans youth.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
The youth are the future and we need to give them
everything possible.
And if we're talking abouttrans youth, just listen to them
, right?
Just listen to the children,period.
We don't even have to putemphasis on trans kids.
Let's just talk about the youth, because the children are the
future.
We know this right Because wewere children and now we're in
(21:44):
leadership, and it's a cycle.
It's how it works.
So if a child comes to you andthey tell you how they feel,
what's going on with them,believe them, listen to them,
even if they're not sure whatthat looks like because we
weren't sure what it looked likewhen we were kids still support
them.
Don't say, oh, you don't knowwhat you're talking about,
(22:05):
that's a fad.
No, we're not doing this.
Listen to the children, hearthem out.
Just let them be their children, for God's sake.
They need to be worried aboutrunning around, having a great
time being kids, not worryingabout what adults are saying or
doing, being kids, not worryingabout what adults are saying or
doing.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
If I'm listening and I'm possibly transgender youth
or other transgender, how can Iget more information or how can
I get in touch with you for somehelp?
Speaker 3 (22:34):
Oh, you can Google my name Javon Martin, trans
activist, black trans advocate.
I will come up on all socialmedia and I am also a chaplain,
and so I do hold space for thosethat are in crisis.
And it's my duty and my honor,because when I had episodes or
(22:56):
even times of distrust and Ididn't know where to turn, it
was my community chaplain thatwas a safe space.
It was someone listening to meand not judging me.
So I'm here as a chaplain forthe whole community, for anyone,
not just the trans communityright, I didn't take an oath
(23:18):
just to be specific, for theLGBT community.
I'm here for anyone that's incrisis.
Also, just to add on aboutMonica Roberts anyone that knew
her knew that she was a big,bold black woman that didn't
stand down from a fight, and shealso supported the kids.
She supported the youth atevery aspect of her life, and
(23:42):
this is what we are doing, andit's very important that we
listen to the kids.
I cannot tell you how importantthat is.
And then I just want to leaveyou with one thing, glenn
Houston Trans Pride did notstart with us.
Houston Trans Pride was startedby Dee Dee Waters, and I
(24:04):
believe it was some years agothere was an organization.
I'm not sure what the name ofthe organization was, off the
top of my head, but yes, and sowe picked it up and we started
it from here, and it's been donebefore here in Houston, so
don't think that we are thefirst.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
Tell me again the name, the location and the date
and time of your event.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
It's at Houston Trans Pride and you can find it at
Social Beer Garden June 27th at7 pm and if you would like to
help, you can go togivebuttercom backslash Houston
Trans Pride.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
You can donate, you can support the organization you
can leave a message, JovanMartin, with Houston Trans Pride
.
This is Queer Voices.
This is KPFT 90.1 FM.
(25:05):
Houston 89.5 FM.
Galveston 91.9.
Speaker 6 (25:09):
FM Huntsville and worldwide on the internet at
kpftorg.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
This is Queer Voices.
For one day, the time will come.
This is Queer.
Speaker 6 (25:29):
Voices.
Today we are honored to bejoined by one of the 2025
Houston Grind Pride Marshals,brandon Mack.
This year's theme Celebrationis Our Legacy is all about
visibility, empowerment andunity, and Brandon Mack is a
shining example of all three.
Welcome and congratulations.
Thank you so much, joel,honored to be here.
(25:50):
Let's start with your reaction.
How did it feel to find out youwere chosen as a Grand Marshal
for Houston Pride 2025?
Distinguished.
Speaker 4 (26:01):
Grand Marshal, I should say I was incredibly
honored and it was a very, verypleasant surprise.
I previously was a part of theGrand Marshals for Black Lives
Matter Houston and that was anamazing honor.
Then to be kind of singled outfor the work that I've done in
the community just was an evenmore immense honor.
(26:22):
So it's a great, incrediblefeeling.
Speaker 6 (26:26):
For those who may not know you yet, can you share a
bit about your journey, who youare and what led you to this
moment in the community?
Speaker 4 (26:33):
As I often like to tell people when I introduce
myself, I am an activist,organizer, educator, all-around
angelic troublemaker.
I've been doing community workfor the last 20 years, starting
in advocacy with the HumanRights Campaign and then getting
involved in the Houston LGBTQPlus Political Caucus, been on
(26:57):
the Mayor's Advisory Board.
Now I'm on the CountyCommission as a vice chair,
being involved in the LGBTQ pluschamber of commerce.
So I've always been around andinvolved in the community in a
variety of different capacities,because for me it is about
representation and it's alwaysabout making sure that all of us
(27:17):
at all intersections, I'm sorry, did I hear Angelic?
Speaker 6 (27:22):
What was that Angelic ?
What was?
Speaker 4 (27:24):
the term angelic troublemaker.
I love that from um BayardRustin, who was an influence, uh
, on me and, of course, in ourcommunity, and he said that what
we really need in this world isa group of angelic
troublemakers.
And so I saw that quote, I waslike yep, that's me, and so I
(27:46):
always have taken it up eversince.
Speaker 6 (27:49):
Being a distinguished grand marshal is both an honor
and a platform.
What message or vision do youhope to share through this role?
Speaker 4 (27:55):
Especially right now, with what's going on in our
state, in our nation, in termsof the LGBTQ plus community, is
being under attack.
My voice and platform at thisparticular moment is for us to,
as we have done since thebeginning of time, to always be
present, to always be proud ofourselves and to remind the
(28:19):
world that we're going to behere and that we have a place in
space, in this world.
So, for me, that's the mainthing that I'm hoping to convey
this month and every month untilI leave this world.
Speaker 6 (28:32):
This year's theme celebration is our legacy.
We'll bring out a full spectrumof queer joy resistance in
history.
What does that personally meanto you, though?
Speaker 4 (28:40):
Once again, a reminder of the importance of
Pride Month and the importanceof taking that time to celebrate
ourselves.
We've all of us who are membersof the LGBTQ plus community
have been on a journey ofself-acceptance once again in a
world that often tells us not tobe ourselves.
So that's why it's so importantthat we take advantage of Pride
(29:01):
Month, that we take advantageof any opportunity to stop and
celebrate ourselves, because ithelps us to keep going, but it
also helps us to create thepossibility models for the next
group to come and take ouridentities and take this
celebration of ourselves evenfurther.
What this reminds me of is thatwe're looking in the past,
(29:23):
honoring those folks.
We're celebrating our present,but we're also celebrating a
bright future, despite what itmay look like right now 2025 has
brought some new challenges andvictories for our community.
Speaker 6 (29:35):
What issues or causes are most important to you right
now?
Speaker 4 (29:39):
The inclusion of our entire community is the LGBTQIA+
.
I'm a big fan of the plusbecause we are all ever-evolving
.
People always have newidentities that come up, but we
need to always make sure thatwe're always inclusive of our
entire community.
So that means that even if weare not a member or we identify
(30:02):
as a trans person, we still needto care.
So for me, one of the biggestissues right now is the attacks
that we're seeing happen at thelegislative level, in the state
and at federal levels, goingagainst our trans community.
We have to fight against that.
We have got to stand boldly andsay that trans is an identity,
(30:22):
that is a human identity thatneeds to be respected and
protected, just like everybodyelse.
So any sort of things that goagainst the trans community, I'm
like we all have got to goagainst those issues.
We have to fight against those.
Protect that community becauseonce again, they come for one,
they come for all and we allwant to be protected.
(30:44):
Other big issues for me iscurrently the book bans that are
going on, because, as aneducator, and how important that
is, especially at early ages,all the way up, and so once
again, it's important for us tosee ourselves reflected in
education, because when we seeeach other, it makes it that
(31:05):
much harder for us to devalueone another.
So that's why we've got to makesure that LGBTQ plus stories
are being told in the classroomand in the curriculum, along
with every other identity,because we all deserve to be
learned about and we all need tobe valued.
Speaker 6 (31:22):
Speaking of the LGBTQIA plus community.
The scene is pretty rich andresilient.
What excites you most aboutthis year's Pride celebration?
Speaker 4 (31:32):
What excites me most about this year's Pride
celebration is seeing theinclusion of so many wonderful,
amazing people that I've got achance to work with and also
have seen their amazing work inthe community.
We have a wonderful group ofgrand marshals, from our
distinguished grand marshals,our male-identified,
(31:53):
female-identified andnon-binary-identified and
trans-identified individuals.
So seeing amazing people beinguplifted and celebrated, seeing
more organizations, seeingamazing people being uplifted
and celebrated, seeing moreorganizations coming out and
making sure that they are knownin the community and, once again
, just being in community withone another.
We had a couple of years where,unfortunately, we weren't able
(32:14):
to celebrate the way that wewanted to because of the
pandemic, but we stillcelebrated anyway.
Just seeing once again the factthat we're coming together,
even at a time where it may seemlike we're under attack.
But that's the history of us asa community is that when we're
being fought against, we stillcome together.
Those are the things that areexciting me about this upcoming
(32:34):
year is that we're stillcelebrating, and also it's the
10th anniversary of marriageequality A great reason for us
to all come out and make surethat we're celebrating ourselves
and letting the world knowwe're still here, still queer,
and we're not going anywhere.
Speaker 6 (32:50):
What advice or encouragement would you give to
younger, queer folks looking toget involved or make a
difference?
Speaker 4 (32:55):
To my younger, queer folks who are looking to make a
difference value your voice,know that your voice is valued
and know that you don't have towait.
Your turn is now.
Take up space, go to thosespaces and advocate for yourself
.
Go to those places and demandto be heard, because your voice
(33:15):
is valued and needed and no oneneeds to give you permission.
You have the permission justfor sheer existence.
So that's my biggest advice tothem is to raise those voices up
, raise them loud and proudlyand keep fighting for yourselves
.
Speaker 6 (33:31):
Brandon Bay.
Thank you so much for sharingyour time and story with us.
Congratulations again on beingdistinguished grand Marshall.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
Part of our queer voices community listens on KPFT
, which is a non-profitcommunity radio station, and as
such, kpft does not endorse orhold any standing on matters of
politics.
If you would like Equal Airtimeto represent an alternative
point of view, please contact usthrough kpftorg or our own
(34:03):
website at queervoicesorg.
This is Queer Voices.
Speaker 7 (34:09):
Hi everyone, thanks for joining us.
R Lee Ingalls here and I'm herewith my husband, brett Cullum.
So this podcast today actuallystarted from a conversation we
had this morning which kind oftook a really interesting
direction.
We're trying to figure out somepodcasts for the future and one
of the topics was my book, thePrairie has a Rainbow.
At the very end of the book, oneof the last few paragraphs, I
(34:31):
stated that I had threelong-term relationships, one 11
years and two that were sevenyears, and both or all three of
them ended kind of spectacularly.
But I chose not to define thoserelationships by the last few
months that were kind of adisaster, but rather the years
that we lived together that wereactually good.
I said that I think in the gaycommunity we tend to be more
(34:56):
forgiving and eventually becomefriends with our exes.
I see that quite a bit.
I said I don't see that so muchin the straight world.
So I came away with theconclusion that the rule is, or
typically, that in the gay worldwe tend to be more friendly
after the fact than those in thestraight world.
Speaker 8 (35:14):
Yeah, no, and I think that there's a definite theme
there, and one that I've alwaysjoked about, because I've
remained friends with a lot ofmy exes, although a lot of them
have either moved away orthey've passed away.
Speaker 7 (35:28):
I have the same thing , yes.
Speaker 8 (35:30):
Yeah, I'm not sure what that says about me, but
okay, but I was reallyinterested because I was saying
well, I think that some straightpeople do that.
I think that on both sidesthere's probably that.
And so I started kind ofresearching a little bit and I
did find out that actually it'strue, lgbtq individuals,
especially gay men, are morelikely to remain friends with
(35:50):
their exes when you compare itto heterosexuals.
And they were saying that therewas a lot of various factors,
including kind of strong networksupports within LGBTQ plus
communities.
There's shared experiences,routines, the need for social
connections, that maybe we justaren't going to run into each
other more or that it's justeasier to kind of I don't know
(36:10):
maintain it.
I'm not sure what the secretsauce there is.
Speaker 7 (36:13):
So one of my exes did pass away, unfortunately, and
one of them the first one thatwe were together for 11 years
we're still friendly, mostly onone that we were together for 11
years.
We're still friendly mostly onFacebook, because we live so far
apart.
Yeah, the shared experiencesthat we had were good and that's
what I choose to hold on to.
And we both know those couplesin the straight world that get
divorced and the two of themcan't even be in the same room
(36:35):
after decades apart, which justI mean that doesn't make sense
to me, and I'm not trying tounderstand their world or
editorialize it at all, but Ijust say that I see that far too
often.
Speaker 8 (36:46):
Well, and to me I mean.
My personal philosophy is thatif I cared about you enough to
have a relationship with you, Istill want you to be in my life
Now.
Do I want you as a romanticpartner?
No, Do I want to be involvedwith you in any other way than
friendship.
(37:06):
No, but I still want to knowwhat happens to you.
I still want to support you.
I'm still in your corner andI'm still cheering for you and I
still want you to make it and Istill want you to be involved.
And I used to joke anytime thatI did a show like a theater
show previews I would invite atleast one ex to the previews
Because I knew that if anybodywas going to be honest with me
about whether the show was anygood or whether I was performing
(37:27):
well, it would be one of myexes and I absolutely made it
like a policy of at leastgetting one to come to a preview
and tell me, yeah, it's a goodshow or no, you really need to
run and this is bad.
Speaker 7 (37:39):
Right, right, what were you thinking?
So that's absolutely correct.
Once you go through thatspectacular ending, you can
guarantee that they are going tobe very frank about their
opinions going forward.
Speaker 8 (37:50):
Well, and that's nice to have, because you have so
many people in your life thateither want to impress you or
they want to ingratiatethemselves to you that sometimes
they're not honest.
And sometimes, when I ask foran opinion of work or something
that I'm producing or somethinglike that, I want an honest
opinion.
I'm not asking for you to justconfirm what I'm doing.
Speaker 7 (38:10):
Right, right, and we'll end in the same way too.
If I ask for your opinion, it'sI genuinely want what you think
about it, and what I do fromthere is my business, but I'm
actually looking for an honestopinion, yeah.
Speaker 8 (38:21):
But I mean it's hard for some people to do that, and
with the next, I mean they'vealready destroyed a relationship
with you, true?
Speaker 7 (38:27):
Okay.
Speaker 8 (38:28):
Are you going to get a?
Speaker 7 (38:29):
better.
Yeah, when you did the research, I did some more thinking about
what actually took place from arelationship and how we manage
areas that we don't.
So I don't think we don'tparallel on this.
We do, but how we think aboutit is different.
So this is kind of what I cameaway with.
So I stated what I thought frommy experience and all my input
was a rule and instinctively,you went to the exceptions to
(38:52):
that rule and started pointingout exceptions, and I agree with
that.
In every rule it's not 100%.
It's like 100% of the time, bethat there are going to be those
exceptions that we can go to.
And I thought, well, is thatjust to take the counterpoint,
or is that being argumentative?
And I thought so.
As I continued to think throughthat, I thought, well, wait a
second, you do the same thing.
(39:14):
And I referenced that there's abook that either you read or
your mother gave you orsomething.
There's a book that either youread or your mother gave you or
something.
And the only thing that Iremember about it is, if you
walk into someone's house andthey have lots of books, they're
this.
If they don't have lots ofbooks, then they're not that,
and that's the stated rule, andI came up with to that because I
feel like I might be anexception to that.
So and I thought, okay, so weboth do that.
(39:34):
So are we being counterpoint?
Are we being argumentative?
Speaker 8 (39:38):
I always want to look at both sides of an equation
and I always want to look at,well, what if it's this or what
if it's that?
And I think that there areobviously exceptions.
I know tons of people in ourworld, in the LGBTQ community,
that cannot be friends with anex.
They just have some kind ofimmunity to it.
It's not important to them.
(39:59):
They feel like, oh my gosh,this person betrayed me and I
will never speak to them againand they cannot be in the same
room.
Yeah, and then there are somestraight people, and I brought
up the famous celebrity coupleexample of Demi Moore and Bruce
Willis.
They had a big divorce andeverything, but now that Bruce
Willis' health is fading, demiMoore and her family are
actually stepping up and helpinghim.
And they're still friends andI've read a bunch of stuff
(40:21):
lately about some straightcouples where they remain
friends after the divorce, andcertainly in my personal
experience I don't see that asoften.
I mean, I definitely have in myown family.
There's lots of examples ofpeople getting divorced and
never talking again, and thencertainly with us, I mean, we
have friends.
So the general rule isobviously that we are more
(40:42):
likely to do that.
Speaker 7 (40:43):
Yeah well, and embrace the whole thing.
So I'm with you.
So I have a really large familyand there are a lot of exes.
I see kind of a mixture of both.
Mostly they don't talk to eachother, never want to see each
other again, but there are a fewthat do talk to their exes and
from mine and your perspectiveand experience, I have met some
of your exes and, even though Idon't think you've actually met
(41:03):
any of mine, you are friendswith at least one of them on
facebook.
Yeah.
So yeah, we, not only are wefriends ourselves, but our, our
spouses are friends with themthat's true.
Speaker 8 (41:14):
One of the things that I also looked at, too,
though, is I was looking at thedifferences in relationships
between the straight world andthe gay world.
They said that the averagestraight person has four to ten
partners or relationships, andthat they pretty much go about
3.7 relationships on average tofind the right one.
That was what they were saying,and some studies actually said
that men were more likely tohave more than women, that they
(41:34):
would have up to six, includinglike two long-term, basically,
yeah, and that that would be thething.
So, and then the, the gay men.
It said that we would have moreof a propensity to have more
relationships than that, andthat that might be a thing,
because sometimes we don't labelthem as serious.
There's a large percentage injust the general population of
gay men that are either in openrelationships or polyamorous or
(41:57):
things like that, so there's alittle bit of a fluidity there
already.
The stage for not having illwill when everything falls apart
.
I don't know.
It's a very interesting thing,and I think that another part of
the equation is thattraditionally straight marriages
are focused around kids, and Ithink that a lot of times you
have to remain friends with theex because you are going to
(42:18):
co-parent or you are going tohave a kid going forward.
Now, that's true with gayrelationships too.
Speaker 7 (42:23):
I've seen that where we've seen two gay men break up
but they've adopted kids andthey have to swallow that,
become friends just for the sakeof the kids yeah, but even then
I see it different becausethere's this, you know, there's,
like I said, there's I have it,my own family and there's some
animosity and some anger aroundthe relationship, even when it's
(42:44):
involving just the kids havingto manage the kids, and I don't
really see that so much in thegay community.
I think it's co-parenting.
I see it as a or pop in the gaycouples that I'm aware of.
Speaker 8 (42:54):
Well, how do you navigate this?
I mean, you were talking aboutyour examples and obviously
you've had what three majorrelationships before and before
us yeah, yeah, that, you wouldsay were that and you remain
friends with them to a degree,right, yeah?
Speaker 7 (43:08):
yeah, sadly, bob, the third one.
He passed away before we reallygot were able to kind of mend
from our separation.
But even those communicationswere happening.
But the other two.
So, roger, on number two, heused to come to my holiday
parties every year for a longtime until his, his new
boyfriend, passed away and thenhe kind of fell off the face of
(43:28):
the earth.
Even the people that I knew,that knew him then, are no
longer hearing from him.
So I don't know what happenedthere.
But my first one, devon, westill chat on facebook.
We haven't talked to each otherin quite a long time.
I talked to him and his otherfamily members as well.
That communication has alwaysbeen there.
Like I said, I'm not going tomeasure our relationship by how
it dissolved, but by the yearsthat it was good and we did.
(43:51):
I mean we had a lot of goodtimes.
We were both very young at thetime, we did a lot of things
together and it was fun.
So why not focus on that?
Speaker 8 (43:57):
No, I agree with you, although I've had some serious
relationships where I feel likethe other person could not be
friends afterwards.
I don't know what it was.
Sometimes it was when I wouldenter into another relationship.
It kind of really fizzled and Ithink that that kind of like
almost that jealousy of, oh mygosh, you're moving on.
It's tricky to navigate,especially when one of you if
you're both single after, afteryou break up, it seems like it's
(44:19):
easier.
If one of you ends up in arelationship eventually or later
, then I think sometimes it getsa little bit weird and I don't
know.
Speaker 7 (44:27):
I just I felt some discomfort from some exes with
that and around you know, I waskind of the opposite, or at
least for me personally.
I was the opposite.
I was happy when my exes metsomebody else and started dating
someone else, because thatmeant I was fully off the hook.
When I'm done, I'm done.
I didn't want any of this backand forth stuff and possibility
of anything.
(44:47):
The only thing that's possibleis being friends and not hate
each other.
That's all that's possible.
Speaker 8 (44:53):
That's the only thing that's possible.
We're not going to hate eachother, but I always found some
comfort in having friendsBecause I mean, let's face it,
if you have an ex, they've seenyou at your best.
They've also seen you at yourworst and you can have, like I
said, you can have those honestconversations with them and they
kind of know where things aregoing to go wrong for you.
(45:14):
I hate to say it.
Speaker 7 (45:18):
Yeah Well, if they wanted to hit a hot button, they
know which ones to hit.
So there is that.
Speaker 8 (45:21):
However, I've never had that experience no, I've
never had that experience either, but I do appreciate the
insight and just having thatkind of a friend that you can
bounce things off of, that theyknow kind of how you're going to
react.
You know, I mean most of ourfriends do anyway, I mean most
of our friends are very closefriends.
Yes, we've known them for years.
We have a very strange circleof friends, I would say, by most
(45:42):
people's measure, because we'vehad friends.
Some of mine have been, youknow, over 40, some of yours
have been over 40.
I mean, it's just like it goescrazy when you think about it.
So it's hard and, and maybethat's why we're easier to
navigate, that maybe we're justlong-term people.
Speaker 7 (45:58):
Yeah, I don't know, that could be, that could be.
Speaker 8 (46:00):
I mean, although I certainly have had my, my
friends that have not lasted aslong, that have been like
acquaintances that I've knownfor a season, especially when
you look at like theater stuff,particularly like when you were
in your dance days.
Did you have people that youwere just friends with when you
were just in that company?
Speaker 7 (46:14):
right.
Right, because of proximity,we're very, we're close to each
other, seeing each other everyday in the same space, so we
became friends.
But then answers, I would sayare at least from back in those
days very much.
In the moment when theircircumstance changes, then
everything changes and most ofthem I lost touch with.
I have rekindled some of thosefriendships because of Facebook.
(46:34):
I'm on Facebook now, but manyof them I've never heard from
again, and not because I didn'twant to, or if I saw them again
today I wouldn't embrace themand pick up where we're left off
.
But yeah, it was a verytransient community.
Speaker 8 (46:46):
You know, social media has been wonderful for
doing that.
One of the things is like whenI was doing research for this, I
did find a very supportivearticle in Psychology Today, of
all places, that basically saidthat as a community, we just
have a unique degree ofimportance on retaining
emotional support, advice, trustand shared memories, and that
absolutely lines up with whatI've said, that you've got these
(47:08):
things.
And they said that we are morelikely to go out of our way to
maintain a relationship thanmaybe a heterosexual counterpart
, that we are actually going tomake sure that happens.
Speaker 7 (47:18):
We make the calls, we set up the planned gatherings,
all that kind of stuff.
We were very good about doingthat to parties.
Speaker 8 (47:26):
So we're going to invite them to parties here.
You can come to my party.
Speaker 7 (47:29):
So one more question came to mind.
So does that constitute anargument between us?
Speaker 5 (47:33):
Did we?
Speaker 7 (47:33):
argue.
Speaker 4 (47:34):
No.
Speaker 7 (47:34):
I didn't think so either, because I thought you,
from my perspective, I don'tfeel that passionate about
either one of those issues thatI brought up to take a stand,
any serious stand, on it.
Yeah, so I agree.
Speaker 8 (47:44):
No, that was not an argument no, I think it's fun to
debate things.
I think so too, and I think youshould, and I think it's
healthy in any relationship,whether it's friend, whether
it's co -worker, whether it'syour partner, your spouse, your,
however you define yourrelationship.
I think it's healthy to.
I think that's what we're herefor aren't we yeah?
I mean that's challenge people'sbeliefs, talk about things,
maybe look at the other side too.
(48:05):
I don't know.
I mean I think that that'salways been an instinct of me to
want to kind of look at.
Like Joni Mitchell says, I'velooked at both sides now.
I mean it's that whole thing oflike I want to out, like where
is this coming from and what arethe counterpoints to this?
Speaker 7 (48:19):
and right, and having the discussion helps you
crystallize your thought on ityeah so yeah, and possibly
change it, although that mightbe more difficult no, I think it
is difficult to make yousometimes change those.
Speaker 8 (48:33):
It's hard.
It's like we always talk aboutin social media and like one of
the things about having friendsfrom the past at social media.
Sometimes you find out that, ohmy gosh, their political views
are completely different thanmine, yes, and that makes it
hard.
I mean, and then, like you,have a different strain on that
relationship.
Do you ignore that or do you?
I mean, how do you handle that?
Speaker 7 (48:52):
yeah.
So obviously it depends on whatthe relationship is and how
close you are and and fond eachother you are.
But from my perspective, ifwhat you're doing is harmful to
another group of people, I havea really hard time ignoring that
.
I might not completely distancemyself, but I might limit my
(49:13):
exposure somewhat.
Speaker 8 (49:14):
You know, I have to look at the source of our
friendship and where it camefrom.
If it is a deep-seatedfriendship that has spanned
years and years and decades anddecades, I am more likely to be
forgiving of that.
But if we are more casual, morerecent friends, then I'm
probably going to see that aslike oh well, maybe we should
rethink this, because I'm notsure how to do this, but I
(49:37):
navigate it differently withdifferent people.
Speaker 7 (49:38):
I mean that's what I think is weird.
I do too, and you're right.
It depends on the depth andtime and just how fond of that
person I am.
Yeah.
Speaker 8 (49:47):
And if they're an ex, I'm probably going to make fun
of them.
I'm just kidding.
Speaker 7 (49:51):
I can guarantee you, I will Talk about them behind
their back everything.
No, I'll judge their face.
No, no, no.
When I say talk about thembehind their back, I mean
they're standing next to me withtheir back to me.
They can still hear me.
Speaker 8 (50:03):
Oh no, we're a mess.
Okay, yes, but I thought it wasinteresting that they actually
have these research things thatsays this is a common phenomenon
, even though they said thatit's kind of more of a media
thing that they thought at first, but then when they actually
plunged into it, they kind offigured out that it's just the
fact that we have to.
Speaker 7 (50:21):
I mean, it's easier for us to do that, I guess, in a
weird way I know, I don't knowwhat the how that is actually
the case, but it does.
Speaker 8 (50:28):
As I said, it does appear to be the case it seems
interesting to me that a man anda woman are more likely to not
be friends later, as opposed toa man and a man or a woman and a
woman.
It just I don't understand howthat happens, other than maybe
it's just the way that the worldworks maybe maybe it's not as
socially acceptable to befriends.
It's like that when harry metsally movie cliche of how can
(50:50):
you be friends with a woman, youknow when you're a man.
But we have the same kind ofequation.
I mean, how can you be friendswith a guy when you have a
significant partner or marriedor whatever you know, and yet we
do.
It's an interesting conundrum,I think, and when that was, I
thought was an interestingconversation.
Speaker 7 (51:08):
Yeah, yeah, and it was.
It was very interesting thismorning the whole process of
getting ready for this podcast.
Yeah, it was a very interestingjourney.
Speaker 8 (51:15):
So that's great.
So we've established that weare both kind of sort of friends
with most of our exes althoughI think I have more exes that
I'm not friends with than youand it was mainly because they
wanted it that way.
I didn't want it that way, butthey did and I wanted to respect
their wish for the clean break.
Yeah, I didn't want to to pushthat topic or make them feel
uncomfortable, say, hey, youhave to do this or you know I'm
(51:36):
gonna hound you.
But but I did reach out, likeif I heard of anything that
happened to them, I would sendlike a letter or a card or
something to just say, hey, I'mthinking about you, I hope that
everything works out.
You know, if I heard ofsomething that happened to them,
yeah, and I would do the samething.
Speaker 7 (51:50):
Yeah, all right.
Speaker 8 (51:52):
Well then, I guess we are off the hook until next
time when we have a heatedconversation in the kitchen and
it ends up on the podcast.
Speaker 1 (52:15):
This has been Queer Voices, heard on KPFT Houston
and as a podcast available fromseveral podcasting sources.
Check our webpage queervoicesfor more information.
Queer Voices executive produceris Brian Levinka.
Deborah Moncrief-Bell isco-producer, brett Cullum and
David Mendoza-Druzman arecontributors.
The News Wrap segment is partof another podcast called this
(52:39):
way out, which is produced inlos angeles some of the material
in this program has been editedto improve clarity and runtime.
Speaker 9 (52:46):
This program does not endorse any political views or
animal species.
Views, opinions andendorsements are those of the
participants and theorganizations they represent.
In case of death, pleasediscontinue use and discard
remaining product for queervoices I'm glenn holt.
Speaker 1 (52:58):
For Queer Voices I'm Glenn Holt.
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