October 22nd - Remembering Iris Santos, Julia Krohn of SPELLING BEE at TUTS, and THE HOUSE OF GUNNIESS

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This episode begins with a very moving tribute from the mother of Iris Santos, who was a transgender woman murdered in 2021. Her case remains unsolved, and if you have any information, we ask you to step forward. Then Brett Cullum talks to Julia Krohn about the Theatre Under the Stars season opener THE PUTNAM COUNTY SPELLING BEE. Finally author R. Lee Ingalls and Brett Cullum talk about their latest Netflix obsession, THE HOUSE OF GUINNESS! 

Queer Voices airs in Houston Texas on 90.1FM KPFT and is heard as a podcast here. Queer Voices hopes to entertain as well as illuminate LGBTQ issues in Houston and beyond. Check out our socials at:

https://www.facebook.com/QueerVoicesKPFT/ and
https://www.instagram.com/queervoices90.1kpft/

Episode Transcript

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What is that?

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Well, talk about the ABC 13 special that's gonna be
on.

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Just listening to it in the middle of the night.

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You've been at it a while, andI've been at it a while, but I
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(04:29):
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(04:50):
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SPEAKER_09 (05:03):
Welcome to Queer Voices, a radio show and a
podcast for the LGBTQIA pluscommunity.
We have three segments for you.
Up first, Jacob Newsominterviews Maria Garnion, who is
the mother of Iris Santos, atransgender woman who was
murdered in 2021.
It is a very heartfelt, uh, verymoving interview.

(05:25):
Then we make things a little bitlighter with Julia Crone, who is
an actress who is in the TheaterUnder the Stars production of
the Putnam County Spelling Bee,which is the theater's season
opener this year on October21st.
And then finally, I talk withauthor R.
Lee Ingalls about the Netflixhit series House of Guinness.

(05:47):
Queer Voices starts now.

SPEAKER_08 (05:53):
My name is Jacob Newsome, and I'm sitting with a
special guest today.
Her name is Maria Cardillon.
She is the mother of IrisSantos, a transgender woman that
was murdered in Houston a coupleyears ago.
We are coming here today tohonor the life of Iris Santos
and to make space for her motherduring this time.

(06:13):
Maria, is there anything youlike to say or to add?

SPEAKER_05 (06:17):
Yes, I like the idea of honoring Iris' life instead
of Iris talking about Iris dead,it's it's honoring her life
specially and still remember herand the time she spent with us.

SPEAKER_08 (06:31):
I really appreciate that you said that because I
wanted to ask you, can you startby telling us a little bit about
who Iris was, not just whathappened to her, but who she was
before the headlines?

SPEAKER_05 (06:43):
We can start when she was little, she was so
smart.
I was remembering when shestarted, she was maybe four,
four or five years old, lessthan five, three or four.
She started kindergarten, pre-K.
It was just a you know, littleschool that she attends.
And then she got a friend, bestfriend, it was a girl.

(07:05):
She always played with girls,and she started loving the
movies from Disney.
Her favorite was Cenicienta.
The first time she watched thatmovie, she came from school and
started telling me everythingabout it.
She cannot even speak well.
And then instead of Cenicientain Spanish, what we call

(07:25):
Cinderella, you know.
So she says, Mommy, mommy, I Iwatch movies, you know, this
princess and these dresses.
Oh my God, it was so beautiful,beautiful.
She cannot describe howbeautiful she was, right?
And she says, I say, what is thename?
And then she says, Semicienta.

(07:46):
So she misspelled, you know,because it was Spanish to tell
me in Spanish.
And I laughed and I laughed, youknow.
We went home and she was sohappy about that.
Since then, she just lovedwatching fairy tale movies, and
her best friends was alwaysgirls, and and it wasn't it was
normal like any other kid, butshe was so smart.

(08:08):
She started learning everythingin the movie.
Was while she was watching themovie, she knew all the
paragraphs and actions that thethe characters make, and she
learned the movie by memory.
And then actions and acting andeverything.
I was like, wow, she you'reamazing.

(08:30):
How can you do that?
She said, because it'sbeautiful, mother.
These movies are beautiful.
Oh my god, when I grow up, Iwant to be like one of them.
She said, But you're a boy,you're not a girl.
And she doesn't say anything.
You know, at that time she wasonly five or between three and
five.
She never said nothing.
She was a happy kid.

(08:52):
She was very nice and um had avery good moments with brothers
and sisters.
She was the youngest of uh fourchildren.
So she always, you know, thelast of nobody paid attention,
nobody listened.
She had to listen to everyoneexcept her.

SPEAKER_08 (09:09):
Since she was the youngest, was she do you feel
like she was spoiled growing up,or was she like because I I was
the youngest and I feel like Ihad that kind of yeah, sort of.

SPEAKER_05 (09:18):
Everybody had to take care of her and whatever
she wants, she got it.
But besides that, she got thatcharacter that if she wants
something, it had to be thatday, that moment, right away.
Like, mom, I want to do this,but we don't we cannot do.
We do over the weekend.
No, no, no, no.
I want it right now, mommy.

(09:40):
I have to go to school tomorrow,and I need this.
We have to go to the store, buythis, you know, like whatever it
was.

SPEAKER_08 (09:46):
What are what are some memories that make you
smile when you think of her themost?

SPEAKER_05 (09:50):
Everything.
I mean, everything.
Like I said, she was so smart,you know, when she was in
school, also in the middleschool, like she went into the
teeter, and then she went intothe spelling bee, and she said,
I have to won this spellingcontest, and she won.
She was determined to everythingshe wants and she wants to do.

(10:14):
Everything was fun.
She was she was fun.
All my other children are verydifferent from her.
Away, they're quiet, they'rethey're um they're not laugh
because people is looking atthem, or they don't cry because
they're looking at them.
Iris does everything.
I mean, I don't care if they'relooking at me.

(10:36):
I want to cry, I cry.
I wanna laugh, I laugh.
She was like that.
She was she was just theopposite from the other three
children.

SPEAKER_08 (10:45):
Sounds like she wasn't afraid to be seen.
So she said somebody that wasvery bold, like this is who I
am, type of thing.

SPEAKER_05 (10:51):
Yes, exactly.
She wants, she was, she justwants the whole show for her.
Her dream after she watchingmovies and Disney movies,
especially.
Her dream in life was alwayssince that day I remember.
She said, one day I'm gonna bein Hollywood.
She said, I wanna be a princesslike that.
I'm gonna be like Lady Gaga.

(11:14):
I don't know, but I'll be theirmother.
Swear to God that she's gonna belike that.

SPEAKER_08 (11:19):
She she sounded like she was somebody that definitely
had a good view of herself, likea very like, this is who I'm
gonna be.
I'm gonna be a star.
And she was already a star.
Like she's she's a princess.
Like, um, and so it sounds likeshe's like this ball of light,
is what I'm getting.

SPEAKER_05 (11:36):
She was full of life for everything, every little
detail at school, when herfriends, she had to be the
attention, she had to be.
I mean, she doesn't, it's notlike she fights for that or
don't let other people shine.
But she was like sharing witheveryone.
She brings people to to shareher world, to help people, be

(12:00):
with them, and then just enjoythe time.
Very cheerful.
She was amazing.
I don't I really don't havewords to describe how she was.

SPEAKER_08 (12:09):
Tell me a little bit about how she sounded like she
would uplift people with herenergy.
Can you tell me a little bitabout how you deserve that?

SPEAKER_05 (12:16):
About about a woman.

SPEAKER_08 (12:18):
Can you tell me a little bit about how you might
have seen her uplift people?

SPEAKER_05 (12:22):
She made jokes or or uh within the family, you know,
all my other children, like Isay, they don't like her
personality.
They don't have nothing likethat.
They're the opposite.
So she gets in the room and theysay, Come on, let's go.
We're having a party.
It's your birthday.
What are you doing there?

(12:43):
Get up, you know.
You want makeup?
I'll do your makeup.
You don't have to be in yourroom.
She laughs, she plays, she justcomes in and made you laugh.
It was wonderful.
She was the happiness a lot fromall of us.
It was it was just amazing.
I mean, her character,everything.

SPEAKER_08 (13:03):
I really appreciate you sharing all that because it
sounds like Iris was like thelife of your family in a lot of
ways.

SPEAKER_05 (13:09):
When she passed, we're like, what's going on
here?
What's gonna be fast?
We we feel lost.
It was painful for everyone,everybody quiet, nothing
commented or anything.
I mean, it was just different.

SPEAKER_08 (13:26):
If you're comfortable sharing, can you
walk walk us through whathappened and what you remember
the day, that day, or whatfollowed, the day you found out
Iris uh was murdered?

SPEAKER_05 (13:37):
She was by then she was living by herself in her own
apartment on that location wherethe murder was.
She lives on those apartments,and then she only has less than
a year that she moves there.
She used to live with me, andthen that year she moves by
herself, and she was so happy tohave her first apartment, and

(14:01):
then at this time she was incontact with me on the phone
because she wanted to go to thatshow coming, big, big show
coming to Houston.
And then she got only threemonths to get ready, right?
And then so she was uh at thattime she already was like making
readings and spiritual things.
She told me that that day, no,three days before, on Friday

(14:25):
afternoon, she called me, theysent me the money so I can pay
the I can pay the subscriptionfor the for the show.
I go, Mother, I'm gonna beselling candles.
She was selling candles andaromatic soap, and then she
reading cards, the tarot, andeverything for that fare.
I don't remember the name of theshow, but it was everything

(14:48):
spiritual, magic, and thingslike that.
So it's coming to Houston, so itwas like uh a hundred and
something dollars, and then shesaid, Can you send me this?
And then I just need to pay halfof it, and then I will pay the
rest, and then later I'm gonnacall her and tell her, you know,
to go get the money.
Then we don't hear from herafter that, and so we're waiting

(15:12):
and waiting for her call.
She didn't call.
And then I told my my daughterLuvier to call her and find out
if she was ready so we can sendthe money right now, because we
have to wait for her to call us.
So she called her and she'slike, Mother, she's not

(15:34):
answering me.
So don't worry, she doesn't needthe money no more.
Don't don't worry.
It was Saturday and then Sundayafternoon, somebody called me
and says, Did you know whereIris is?
And I said, No, she's supposedto call me, but I'm waiting for
her.
We call her and she has ananswer.
And they say, Well, you shouldgo and visit with her because I

(15:56):
don't know, something happened.
I heard something.
And then I don't want to sayanything.
And I was like, What?
What happened?
And then I stopped by the by herapartment and I knock on the
door, never answer.
So I stayed there and thennothing.
I went home and I told mydaughter.
My daughter went and online, andthen she started looking on
hospitals, asking for her, andyell, everything, anything if

(16:21):
something happened and with thatname and nothing, nothing.
So we're like, Where where wecan where we can look for her?
And I say, I don't know, I'mgoing tomorrow again to her
apartment.
I had to find her.
So my daughter was like, Mother,don't worry.
Every hospital I call, theydon't have iris.
They have one iris, but it's nother.

(16:41):
They told me her name, but it'snot her.
The last name is different.
And uh so don't worry, she'sfine.
So we wait, and then the nextday I went in the morning.
It was Monday.
I went and I waited, I knockedon the door, nobody answered.
I went through the window,nothing.
It was like nobody knows.
Then it was these people rightthere.

(17:03):
It was a person that sees me,and then she asked me, Are you
looking for the person who livesthere?
And I say, Yeah.
She said, You don't know, youdon't hear nothing.
They say they kill her.
And I no, no, no, no, that's notmy daughter.
And then she said, Well, theythat it was right there at

(17:24):
Chick-fil-A, you know, and thenI was like, No, it's not my
daughter, I just talked to her.
That's not my daughter.
Then she I say, How is she?
And then she said, Well, she haslong hair and sometimes wear
wigs.
And I was like, That's not mydaughter, that's not my

(17:44):
daughter.
Then I just I just fall on theconcrete and sit down there and
lay down on the on the wall.
She says, Oh, are you themother?
And I'm saying, My daughterlives here.
And then she says, I don't knowwhat happened, but it was so
much police, and she kepttelling me.

(18:04):
And I said, No, no, it's not.
Then she said, No, it's okay.
I didn't know you're the mother.
So I tell her, no, it's I'mscared it's not my daughter.
I had to find her.
And then another people from theapartments come in by and they
say, What happened in?
So this lady went and told themwho I was, and then they come

(18:27):
in, it was the people who cleansthe apartments from the
maintenance people, and thenthey just tell me, you have to
go to the office.
I think I think the personyou're looking for is your
daughter.
And I was like, no, it's not mydaughter.
No.

SPEAKER_08 (18:43):
So it was it was even hard to even accept the
truth at the time because it'slike.

SPEAKER_05 (18:48):
Yes, suddenly, yes, suddenly.
I mean, like, he never hadanybody like like, you know, at
that time she doesn't have aboyfriend.
She doesn't she has somefriends, girls that she she
walked with them or to the storeor something, but that was it.
But so I called, I called my mydaughter, Louby, and I I tell

(19:13):
her what's happening, and thenshe was at work and she said,
Mother, just stay there, don'tmove.
I'll be there in 25 minutes.
Then I just stay there and Isay, I'm gonna call the police
right now.
They have to come and tell mewhat happened.
She said, Yeah, yeah, call them,but don't leave there.
Stay there.
I'll be there.
So I called the police, youknow, and people come in and

(19:36):
then they tell me I had to go tothe office.
I call the police and they say,we cannot give you information.
I say, how come?
It's my daughter talking aboutmy daughter.
Well, they tell me if I not calmdown, they come and get me
arrest.
And I say, okay, you can dowhatever, but you have to come
right now because I need youright here.

(19:58):
So the the girl says, you know,she's gonna connect me with
another person at the policedepartment, but they cannot give
me any information.
So my daughter came and shetalked to them.
So we went to the officefinally, and then they called
the police and they say that wewait there for a few hours and

(20:19):
nothing.
The police never show up.
They don't say anything.
So the manager came and he toldme he cannot give me information
because I'm not in the contract,and I don't care.
I want to know what happened,you know, if he knows something.
And then he says, yes, it's yourdaughter, but I cannot tell you
anything.
I mean, you have to wait for thepolice outside.

(20:40):
And so we just went into the carand waited there.
The police never shows up, so wewent home and I just passed out.
I don't even remember.
My daughter was the one thattried to do everything and, you
know, talk to people or find outwhat's what was happening.

SPEAKER_08 (20:58):
Do you feel like law enforcement and the justice
system has been supportive ofyou in the aftermath?

SPEAKER_05 (21:04):
Not at all.
No, instead of helping me,they're telling me that they're
gonna arrest me.
And then when they say they'recoming in an hour and let us
know any information they have,they never show up.
So we went home and that nightthe two officers came and then
they told me they show mepictures and asked me questions.

(21:26):
Well, I'm still alive here, sothat's all what I can do.
She's not here, but she's stillwith me.
She's still with me every singleday.
I mean, it's it's it's rightthere.
It's telling me, Mom, go, go, dothis.
Like she was, like she was.
Don't be quiet, mother.
They're not gonna listen to you.
She was telling me, you knowwhat is your problem, mom?

(21:48):
They don't listen to you becauseyou're so soft, you're so nice
to people that they just thinkthey can't walk through you.
And I'm like, no, no, I just notlike you.
I don't want the scandals, Idon't want this.

SPEAKER_08 (22:01):
She did not bite her tongue.
When you close your eyes andthink of Iris, what do you still
hear her saying or feel herspirit doing?

SPEAKER_05 (22:08):
She's right here.
I know she's here with me.
Like I just saw you pushing me,saying, Don't leave this
quality, mother.
The big, big day I'm gonnaalways remember, and it's gonna
keep when I close my eyes andwhen I before I go to sleep.

(22:29):
I remember the last time I sawher.
And it was the week before.
I remember exactly.
We eating her hamburger and sodain the car and talking.
And then before she left, shewas like, Thank you, mother,
thank you so much.
I love you so much, and shehugged me.

(22:51):
She hugged me the whole bodyfrom inside the car.
I don't know you ever being in acar being hugged.

SPEAKER_08 (22:58):
It is suffocating.

SPEAKER_05 (22:59):
She just got on top of me and hug me with both hands
and arms, and then she said, Ilove you so much.
She's the best thing I have inmy life, mother.
And I just miss when we werelittle and and live at the
house, and we all together andhappy.

(23:20):
And then she got out of the carand she opened the door again
and she said, Wait, I love youso much.
And then she hugged me again.
That was the last time I sawher.
She told me all that.
Can you believe that?
I'm never gonna forget that.
I don't know what.

SPEAKER_08 (23:36):
Do you feel like Iris was saying that for a
reason, or was she just likereally happy that day?

SPEAKER_05 (23:40):
That was the last day I saw her, and then she was
so happy, and then I evenremember her arms around me, you
know, and then squishing me andtelling me, I love you, mother,
I love you.
You have to be strong always,and then that was the last time
I always think she said bye tome that that night because it

(24:04):
was like that.
It was.
I always believe it was it washer telling me goodbye without
her knowing, and I know I'm notgonna see her again, she's not
gonna hug me anymore.
But it makes me happy to itmakes me sad.
And at the same time, when shepassed away and they let me

(24:24):
know, I know the next day orthree days later, I know she was
fine and then she was okay andshe was happy, wherever she she
was.
I'm happy for her too that she'sin a different world, better
than she was.

SPEAKER_08 (24:38):
What do you think Iris would want us to carry
forward and want the world toknow and remember about her?

SPEAKER_05 (24:45):
Oh my gosh, she always talks about that.
She always wants everybody loveseach other.
Everybody lives with no angry.
She was like, Mother, it's somuch angry in this world.
We have to kill that.
Like a family, we have to loveeach other.
At least we start with that.
She used to love singing um JohnLennon, you know.

(25:09):
My gosh.
It's like when I hear that, it'slike she's telling me the same
thing.

SPEAKER_08 (25:15):
She was straight up a full-on lover.

SPEAKER_05 (25:17):
So oh my gosh, she was, she was.
I told you.

SPEAKER_08 (25:21):
My gosh.
I I can imagine.
I mean, I've seen through thiswhole interview, you've carried
so much and you let off so muchgrief and emotion.
If there's other motherslistening or people you feel
like that have been forgotten,especially transgender people,
what would what would you say tothe mothers in the families?

SPEAKER_05 (25:37):
I wish that every mother loves her children when
they let them know I'm nottransgender.
I want to be any other orwhatever they choose to be.
Their mothers still love themfor what they are, who they are.
Especially, I mean, don't giveyour back to your children.
And that's what I I I wantbecause I learned that with her.

SPEAKER_08 (26:02):
So you learned to accept her over time, or were
you Yes, okay.
And I I I think that's that'ssomething a lot of parents don't
talk about, especially we're notwe're not prepared for that, you
know.

SPEAKER_05 (26:14):
Like you're not prepared for die one day, you're
not prepared for nothing ofthose things.
So when what do you think amother feels or thinks when her
children come in and say, I wantto be uh binary, or I want to be
uh transgender, or I want to begay today.
We're coming for these countrieswhere it's and at that time,

(26:37):
especially the time that itwasn't open mind, open to the
world.
You know, you if you're gay, youhave to steal in the closet.
It's sad because now I've seenthis is still happening because
I saw older people and they'regay.
You can tell they're gay, butthey will never accept it, but

(27:00):
they will never come out to theworld and say, Yes, I am who I
am.
And Iris was like, I am this, Iwant to be transgender, and I am
transgender.
I don't care what you think, Idon't care what you want.

SPEAKER_08 (27:18):
And I think it made a lot of difference that you
know, that you gave her thatsort of environment.
Sometimes it's not perfect as aparent.
You learn, you grow into it, butyou you gave her love, is what
I'm hearing, and she felt lovedback.

SPEAKER_05 (27:33):
I think she teached me to love her no matter what.

SPEAKER_08 (27:35):
She was like, you're gonna do it anyway.

SPEAKER_05 (27:37):
But then I say, it's my daughter, how can I say that
was the difference?
Because when my husband knows,let me tell you, he never
accepted.
He lives with her, but he madefun of her or mocking about her,
you know?
And then and I was disappointedbecause his daughter too, but

(27:58):
he'd never understand.
He was that kind of mind thatthey tell you you're a man, you
a man always, doesn't matterwhatever.
And it's very sad.
All the mothers they should theyshould think before they give
the back to their children justbecause they have made a
decision, what they want to be,how they want to live their

(28:18):
lives, or as long as they don'tharm in anyone.
The love that we learn from heris it's a lot.
It's enough.
We're we're so happy to we're sohappy.
I will say not to Iris, butthank you, God, for letting me
have a daughter like Iris in mylife for the years that I have.

(28:42):
It was 22 years and it wasenjoyment, and I came town every
year, and it was only likeexperiences learning, growing
with her, and then so much love.

SPEAKER_08 (28:59):
Iris would be 25 today, yes.
25.

SPEAKER_05 (29:04):
Yeah, in October she will be.
It's uh yeah, 25.

SPEAKER_08 (29:08):
Everyone, if you have any information about the
murder of Iris Santos, you wereadvised to call 713-222-TIPS.
And there's currently, Ibelieve, a thousand dollar
reward.

SPEAKER_10 (29:21):
Yes.

SPEAKER_08 (29:22):
And you can remain anonymous as well.
And Maria, is there anythingelse you'd like to add about the
case?
About about Iris as well, notjust the case.

SPEAKER_05 (29:30):
Well, yes, I know some you know, it was a killer
for my daughter's murder, butit's also someone that knows who
did it.
It's always someone that knowsand if the and it's only a clue
that the police needs to to getthrough this case.
So they they if somebody thereis is listening and they know

(29:54):
something, I will really,really, really ask for their
help.
And be thankful for if somebodydid that, you know, from my
heart.

SPEAKER_08 (30:06):
Let's help Maria get justice for Iris Sagra and help
a grieving mom get justice.
Um that's seven one three twotwo two tips.
And there's a five thousanddollar award out right now for
the capture of the murderer.
Thank you so much, Maria, forcoming on the house.

SPEAKER_09 (30:49):
Hi, I'm Brett Cullum, and today I am joined by
Julia Crohn.
She is a Houston theater icon.
I mean, she's done his shows allaround town, including Theater
Under the Stars, CatastrophicStages, Main Street.
She's done dramas and musicals,several world premieres, and she
was in a Vegas production ofJersey Boys.
She's been a Disney princess asBelle in a production of Beauty

(31:10):
and the Beast.
She was in Tuts' Best LittleWhore House in Texas and all
shook up.
She's just amazing.
And I'm I'm here to talk withher today about her appearing in
the Tuts season opener, the 25thannual Putnam County Spelling
Bee.
Julia, how are you?

SPEAKER_00 (31:26):
All right, Brett.
It's so nice to be here withyou.

unknown (31:29):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 (31:30):
Well, tell me a little bit about the 25th annual
Putnam County Spelling Bee.
What's the story for thosewho've never seen it?
I know.
I every time I do it, I'm like,oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 (31:39):
I think that's why everybody shortens it to
Spelling Bee.

SPEAKER_09 (31:42):
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (31:43):
So it is a show that is so close to my heart.
When I was living in New York uhfrom 2004 to 2008, uh was when
it came to Broadway.
And I saw it there on Broadway.
I was brought in quite a bit uhfor Olive at the time.
I'm too old for that now.
Um she's aged.
Uh but this character that I'mplaying, Rona, actually has been

(32:06):
a dream role for me since thenbecause I was so touched by that
role and especially the songthat sung later.
But the show itself is sounique.
Yes, it's about a spelling bee.
Yes, it's adults playing kids.
Um, and yes, there's a lot ofsilliness, but there's so much
heart, and each speller, eachchild is so unique and brings a

(32:27):
lot of aspects to childhood andjust people in general that I
think speak to all of us andlittle quirks and idiosyncrasies
and even struggles, you know,struggles that that kids might
have.
So it's it runs the gamut whereyou could say, yeah, it's a it's
a comedic musical theater piece,and there is this heart that is

(32:49):
the through line and that it'sit speaks to you in a way that
might surprise you.
And so you're gonna have a greattime, and I think you're also
gonna walk away with withsomething pretty deep.
Now, there's some audienceinteraction, audience
participation, which alwayssounds like bad words to some
people.
It's like saying improv to agroup of people who've never
done it.
It's like, but yes, yes, somelucky, lucky audience members

(33:12):
will be uh there will be aninterview process sort of
happening in the lobby, as Iunderstand it, to sort of
recruit some audience members tobecome members of the spelling
bee.
And one of the things that's sofun about that is obviously, I
would guess for the most part,they will be adults, but they
will be playing children justlike our actors.
Uh, and they'll they'll get somepreparation beforehand, but some

(33:33):
of it is just, you know, it'sjust improv and it's in the
moment and they won't know whatword they're gonna be given.
So, you know, as with anything,I I did um the ugly Christmas
sweater the last two years forTuts, and there was so much of
that, which I wasn't as used to,and it's just made me love
participating with the audiencein that way, you know, getting

(33:54):
people to just kind of stepoutside their comfort zone and
throw themselves into it.
So yeah, it's it's pretty coolin that respect.

SPEAKER_09 (34:02):
As a kid, I think I was traumatized by spelling
bees.
I think even though I write, I Idon't think I live for
grammarly.
I mean, come on, correct myspelling.

SPEAKER_00 (34:10):
Yes, so much pressure.
Yeah, yeah.
Don't put me on the spot.

SPEAKER_09 (34:15):
Yes, I'm not sure I can do it.
That may be the first one out.

SPEAKER_00 (34:19):
Yes, oh my gosh, I would be, definitely.

SPEAKER_09 (34:21):
So you're playing this time Rona Lisa perennially,
is that right?

SPEAKER_00 (34:25):
Yes, Rona Lisa.

SPEAKER_09 (34:26):
Who is she?

SPEAKER_00 (34:28):
She sort of leads the spelling bee.
Uh, she won the spelling beemany years before and has
carried that torch with her.
Um, and uh she lives andbreathes this world.
Uh, she continually sings aboutit.
She continually says, that's myfavorite moment of the bee.
And she says that about uh 10 or12 different aspects of the

(34:48):
spelling bee.
And I think near the end iswhere you really get to the core
of what her favorite moment is.
But yes, this is just this isher world.
And this is where she thrives.
And she also has to sort of havesome bumps along the way, things
that that take her a little,catch her off guard.
Um, and she has to think on herfeet.
So, again, like with any goodshow, everybody's learning in

(35:10):
the show, right?
They're not stagnant characters.
Everybody has to go on ajourney.
Um, and she has a really funone.

SPEAKER_09 (35:16):
Well, it's not like you guys are in for a wild ride
because they improv, singing,audience.
I mean, there's a lot going onat this.
Yeah.
So how did you get cast in thisone?

SPEAKER_00 (35:25):
So, Dan Connectus, our artistic director, yes, who
is also a dear friend of mine.
I think partly because ofworking together with him on
Ugly Christmas Sweater, whichwas his play that he co-wrote
with his dear friend Megan LarchDominic, and directed and
staged.
Um, he saw me get to do so muchof that audience participation,

(35:45):
and he he knows my voice and anduh sort of my my character well.
So so he asked me to play thisrole, and I was able to tell him
what what a dream this is forme.

SPEAKER_09 (35:56):
Well, let me ask you, Julia, how did you get into
theater?
What was little Julia like inher interview?
Oh, little Julia.

SPEAKER_00 (36:03):
Her her entry started in the womb.
Both of my parents are arestaples of this theater
community in Houston.
Um my mom has taught andperformed in Houston uh for her
whole life.
She's 80.
My uh my dad was a member of theacting company at the alley for
55 years.
Um he's 96, and both of themworked for Tuts um when it was

(36:25):
the music hall, and then on tothe hobby center.
Um, so I've I've grown up quiteliterally uh in the theater
scene here.
Um I have three older brothers,two of them decided to go into
finance, smart men.
Uh, but myself and my eldestbrother really got bit bit by
this bug.
Uh like Rona, I've sort of livedand breathed this world my whole

(36:45):
life, and it's always been mypassion.
And um, I've really gotten intothe education side of it as well
uh over the last 10, 15 years,and that's been really
rewarding.
So yeah, it's just kind of in myDNA, I think, Brett.

SPEAKER_09 (36:59):
Yeah.
No, I think I saw you on stagewith your mom, actors it's
Chelsea and Sotoro.

SPEAKER_00 (37:05):
Chesley.

SPEAKER_09 (37:06):
Chesley, I'm so sorry.
No, it's I just see that nameand I immediately think Chelsea,
but it's Chesley.

SPEAKER_00 (37:11):
Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_09 (37:12):
Yeah.
But you you both did a showcalled Memorium at Main Street
Theater.
What was that like?

SPEAKER_00 (37:17):
Oh, it's your mom.
It's hard to put it into words.
I know that sounds trite, butobviously I've lived my whole
theater life with my mom.
She's directed me and she'schoreographed me, and she's
always been side by side with mein so many ways performing, but
we've never been able to standon stage together and look in
each other's eyes because we didall shook up together, but we
never had scenes together.

(37:37):
Um, and my dad and I have beenlucky enough to do some plays
together, but it was so specialat that play in particular,
because of the nature of ourrelationship of her being my
grandmother and it being itbeing so close and a very
intense play.
The kind of interactions we wereable to have on stage were just
so special.
And I will carry it with mealways.

SPEAKER_09 (37:57):
Oh no, I saw it.
I loved it.

SPEAKER_00 (37:59):
I mean, I'm so glad.
I'm so glad.

SPEAKER_09 (38:01):
I was just thrilled to see you and Chesley together
and doing that.
And and when I found out theconnection, I was like, oh, no
wonder.
What have some of your favoriteroles been like over your
career?

SPEAKER_00 (38:11):
I think one of my favorite shows was probably
Jersey Boys, partly because ofthe experience, just being able
to hop around.
And we started in New York, thenwe were in San Francisco, then
we got to open in Las Vegas.
Um, and I don't know if you'veseen that show, but it's just
it's a show sort of like noother.
Yes, it's a Duke op musical, butuh I don't know.
There's there's something aboutit.

(38:32):
Again, it has this heart to it,um, even though it has that
nature um where you're just soengrossed in the world and those
characters.
I got to play 19 differentcharacters in that show.
Um, so it was just such a uniqueexperience.
So that was probably one of myfavorite experiences in terms of
theater.
But even as hard as it was, Iwould say Memoriam is really up

(38:53):
there as well.
And then sort of to thetheaters, again, maybe it sounds
unbelievable, but everythingI've done at Tuts has had its
own um has had it me, whether itwas a show like doing chorus
line because my mom did chorusline on Broadway.
So getting to fill that space,getting to do warehouse that
both of my parents both didyears ago.

(39:15):
So it's funny that you askedthat question.
I don't think I've ever beenable to answer that question
with a clear answer.
I think because everything hasbeen so unique in in their own
ways.
And as I get older, theexperiences just get more
special because I appreciatethem more.
So yeah, I is I that didn'treally answer your question.

SPEAKER_09 (39:33):
Oh no, that's fine.
No, I mean, absolutely, we gotenough.
So you live and teach here inHouston, correct?

SPEAKER_00 (39:38):
Yes.

SPEAKER_09 (39:39):
Yeah.
What's it like being a teacherof it's it's wonderful.

SPEAKER_00 (39:44):
I I graduated from HSPVA, so getting to be back
there teaching has just been soincredible.
Um, and I've been there on andoff really since 2008-2009, but
I've been there moreconsistently since uh since
2020, actually, when when theworld ended and then was
rebirthed.
But I also just recently startedteaching with the education

(40:05):
department at the alley.
And that has been such a specialexperience because of my
connection to the theater.
Cheney Tullus, who heads up theeducation department there.
I don't know if you know him.
Um he's just he's the best.
And the work we've been doinghas actually been with adults.
So we're bringing acting tomedical professionals, to people

(40:26):
at Shell Oil, to lawyers.
So getting to bring educationaway from people who are used to
it, away from people who knowanything about it, and getting
to use those fundamentals, maybein surgery, you know, maybe uh
fighting a case for a client hasbeen pretty special.

SPEAKER_09 (40:44):
Okay.
So my gosh, this title again25th Annual Putnam County
Spelling B.

SPEAKER_00 (40:50):
It's just word salad.

SPEAKER_09 (40:51):
It is absolutely.
It's October 21st, is when itopens.
It runs through November 2nd atthe hobby center.
Obviously, six spellers, one B,lots of laughs.
Yes.
Oh, and Dan is choreographingand directing this one, right?

SPEAKER_10 (41:05):
Dan's yes.

SPEAKER_09 (41:07):
Yes.
So you're working with himagain.
What's that like coming back toworking with Dan again?

SPEAKER_00 (41:12):
So easy.
It really is.
I mean, it just it just is.
Yeah, he's he's I don't know ifyou I'm sure you've heard the
term before.
He's such an actor's director.
Um, I think being a performerhimself for so long, he just he
understands and listens and andhears you and sees you in a way
that's um that's that's veryunique and makes you feel so

(41:33):
much more confident in whatyou're doing.

SPEAKER_09 (41:35):
Yeah.
I've talked to him quite a fewtimes.
He's a very nice guy.
So what's next for you after thespelling bee?
Do you know?

SPEAKER_00 (41:41):
Yes, it's a little bit crazy.
So my last week of performanceswith spelling bee is my first
week of rehearsals for aChristmas carol at the alley.
I used to do a Christmas carolfor years and years and years
and sort of got away from thatand and back to to Tuts for a
while.
So I haven't done this currentversion of a Christmas carol.
So that's gonna be fun.
And you know, I I know most ofthe people, so it'll be lovely
to be back back in that home.

SPEAKER_09 (42:03):
We will see you at Tuts first.
That will be fun October 1stthrough November 2nd, Hobby
Center season opener.

SPEAKER_10 (42:09):
Yes, we've been excited.

SPEAKER_09 (42:11):
Fun and funny and lots of stuff.
So break all the legs, run thatbee like between the two R.

SPEAKER_00 (42:18):
Yes.

SPEAKER_09 (42:19):
Yes, right, and thank you.

SPEAKER_00 (42:20):
Thank you so much, Brett.

SPEAKER_09 (42:45):
Hi there, this is Brett and Lee again, and we're
gonna be talking about a show onNetflix.
But first, I wanted to say thankyou.
The podcast that we hosttogether, Prairie Rainbow
Review, was nominated for anOutSmart Gayest and Greatest as
Best Podcast.
Now we were nominated, we didn'twin.

SPEAKER_07 (43:00):
Yeah, yeah, I was so thrilled about that.
We're less than a year old andwe were already on the list.
So that was enough for me.
But let's not forget, you hadbeen nominated in several
categories yourself.
So yes, very worth thosenominations and and should have
built should have won.

SPEAKER_09 (43:15):
Which tells me I'm a jack of all trades and a master
of none because I was spreadingmyself too thin, I guess.
Anyway, but what we're reallyhere to talk about instead of
awards and things like that is ashow on Netflix, and it was
called House of Guinness.
This is a historical drama thatis set in Ireland, and it tells
the tale of the Guinness familywho established the brewery and

(43:36):
became the richest family inIreland at the times.
And it was created by a mannamed Stephen Patrick.
He's a British filmmaker andhe's done some really brilliant
films.
I loved dirty pretty things.
It was amazing.
And then there was another showof his that we watched, Peaky
Blinders, which was reallygritty, historical.
He's got a certain style.
It's very QuentinTarantino-esque, a lot of like

(43:59):
kind of violence and modernmusic thrown in.

SPEAKER_07 (44:02):
Yeah, once you know the connection, you can
definitely see it in the visualsand the productions.
So this story follows theconsequences of a succession of
the death of Benjamin Guinnessin 1868.
He's the man that was actuallyresponsible for the
extraordinary success of theGuinness Brewery.
Fates of his four children areat the center of the story.

(44:23):
Oldest son was Arthur, followedby Edward, daughter Anne, and
finally the last child wasBenjamin.

SPEAKER_09 (44:30):
Yeah, and the series premiered last month.
It was September 25th onNetflix.
It's been in the top 10 eversince it premiered.
And I wanted to emphasize it's amix of history and fantasy.
This is fiction to a degree.
It's not entirely historicallyaccurate, and I don't want
anybody going in there thinkingthat, but we found it really fun
and engaging.
And the cast was just reallygreat.

(44:52):
Amazing.
Yeah.
We've got Anthony Boyle as theoldest son, Arthur Guinness, and
he's the eldest.
We've got Lewis Partridge, whoplays Edward Guinness, Emily
Fairn as Ann Plunkett, and she'sactually Ann Guinness.
She just gets married, so hername becomes Plunkett.
And then we got Fionne O'Shea asBenjamin Lee Guinness II.
So he bears his father's name,but he's not quite up to his

(45:14):
father's legacy, I suppose.

SPEAKER_07 (45:16):
That's about it.
That's all they share.

SPEAKER_09 (45:17):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 (45:18):
Yeah.
So Arthur, in real history,never had children, became a
politician.
He left the family brewerybusiness to pursue a career in
politics.
And that is all that's true.
The show paints him as a gayman.
And if you look at the history,the history that we can find
does support that.
Yeah, he very well could havebeen.
Could have been.
Yeah, yeah.

(45:38):
Edward Guinness, the secondchild, he led the Guinness brand
into great success, into itsnext series of successes.
He was the mastermind behind thebrand.
In the show, they highlight hiscontributions much earlier than
what they actually occurred inreal history.
And then we have Anne Guinness.
She was the woman, suffered fromcertain health issues, which

(45:59):
they did put in the book that orthe series.
Yeah, series.
And that's what we found in reallife as well.
But she did work tirelessly forcharitable causes.
That also is true.
The show gives her a lot ofspunk, and she was more involved
in the family business than whatshe probably would have been
otherwise.

SPEAKER_09 (46:17):
Yeah, they really took some liberties with the
roles and because I think thatthey gave her a lot of agency
that maybe women wouldn't havehad back then.
Right.
But they do that with a lot ofthe women on the show, which I
appreciate because I like agood, strong female character.
But sometimes you think, oh, howhistorically accurate is this
part.

SPEAKER_07 (46:32):
Yeah, yeah.
But I I agree.

SPEAKER_09 (46:33):
Yeah, but I enjoy it and I wouldn't want to see it
any other way in that thing.

SPEAKER_07 (46:37):
So kind of just a little bit about us, pulling the
curtain back a little bit.
So we have a lot of show genresthat we like to watch.
And costume dramas, I thinkthat's more a favorite of mine
than it is of yours, but thiscertainly fits this, and I think
you enjoyed it as much as I did.

SPEAKER_09 (46:51):
Yeah, no, I like this one.
I have a tendency to likecostume dramas, but they have to
be a certain tone or pace.
I don't like those glacial slowPBS ones where it's just the
woman on the valley and yeah,well, I'm with you on that.
I don't know.
I mean, I just I like a littlebit more zing to everything, and
I have really enjoyed a lot ofthe costume dramas, but they

(47:12):
just had to have a certain pace,maybe.
Yeah.
I think that's what I look for.
For interest.
And I think this show really didthat.
Did a good job of it, yeah.
It felt modern.
Even though it was period.
The way Stephen Patrickincorporated the music, there
are what we call needle drops.
He had a lot of like very punkyIrish music, and I kept just

(47:33):
jamming it on the show, going,What's the song?

SPEAKER_07 (47:36):
That was probably one thing that bothered me a
little bit.
I mean, I would have liked tohave had the music a little
closer to the period of time,but I mean it didn't distract me
enough to to not like it or eventake away from much at all.
Oh no, I am down for some goodIrish rap.

SPEAKER_10 (47:49):
Amazing.

SPEAKER_09 (47:52):
We really liked it.
We couldn't come up withanything bad about it.
So from a production standpoint,gorgeous.
I don't know how much of thesets were CGI and how much of
them were real, but they feltpretty real.

SPEAKER_07 (48:01):
Yeah, wow.
They were crazy.
Yeah, it a lot of it looked likeit might have been done on site
because the buildings reallydid, and the streets all look
real.
The the production sets,designs, costumes, even.

SPEAKER_09 (48:13):
No, the costumes were amazing.
Whoever did those costumes, goodgosh.

SPEAKER_07 (48:17):
Yep, they looked great.
And I that's always importantfor a period thing.
And then one other thing thatkind of helped the storyline, I
think, was casting actors thataren't as well known as other
actors.
So you you're not accustomed toseeing them in other roles.
Um that doesn't mean theyhaven't been in them, they have,
but using them, and uh I wasn'tthat familiar with them.

(48:38):
Maybe you were, but I wasn't.
Uh so it helped thebelievability of the character
they were trying to portrayportray.

SPEAKER_09 (48:45):
Yeah, I mean, it's uh a lot of people that I didn't
necessarily uh recognize.
Now, of course, we recognizeAnthony Boyle, played Arthur.
I mean, because we watchedManhunt.
Yes, exactly.
On Apple Plus.
Right.
And he was really good inManhunt.
He had a really great presence.

SPEAKER_07 (49:03):
Yeah, he he does.
And even in this one, he reallyseems to get into the character
so much so that he disappearsand brings that character to
life.
Because it you're right, we sawhim in Manhunt.
Very believable.
I liked him in that.
This is a totally different rolefor him.

SPEAKER_09 (49:18):
Well, and a lot of our friends started talking
about this uh one scene.
Uh, yep.
In episode three, he has a veryimpressive coming out of the
bath scene with his butler.
And there was a huge debateonline on whether it was real or
whether it was fake, because alot of times now, a lot of
productions use prosthetics tosimulate nudity.
And and they've done this for along time.
I mean, don't think that this iscompletely nude.

SPEAKER_08 (49:39):
Not new at all.

SPEAKER_09 (49:40):
Yeah, and they've always done that for women a lot
of times.
Like there's a whole thingcalled a Merkin, which is when
they take something to give youa modesty patch, but it looks
like you're naked.
And they used to do that forwomen because it was more
typical for women to be naked inmovies and television shows.
But now, as more and more menhave to go there, they've
created prosthetics that cancover and give them a little bit

(50:00):
of privacy and make them look alittle bit less shy, maybe?
This guy claims, Anthony Boyleclaims, that it is the real
deal, that that is 100% him, andthat he actually rallied for the
inclusion of the scene.
Originally in the script, he wasjust supposed to be putting on
cufflinks, and he said, No, Iwant it to be coming out of the
bathtub.

(50:20):
Yep.
And he did.
And it was impressive.
Yep.
So those of you that areinterested in that, yes.
I thought it was reallyinteresting because it wasn't
part of a love scene, and itwasn't anything erotic or
anything like that.

SPEAKER_07 (50:32):
It was just a matter-of-fact.
I don't think they did it in adistracting way.

SPEAKER_09 (50:36):
No, no, I mean I think it was a well done,
well-photographed scene.
And if you're gonna do somethinglike that, good gosh, make it
well photographed.
Yes, absolutely.
Which he did.
Yes.
Now we talk about little-knownactors, but there was one actor
who I didn't recognize, but he'spretty popular.
Yes.
His name is Jack Gleason, and heplayed Joffrey on Game of

(50:58):
Thrones.

SPEAKER_07 (50:59):
I didn't realize that until you said that.

SPEAKER_09 (51:01):
Yes.
He plays one of their cousins,and he's kind of made up in the
show.
He plays a character that goesto America and negotiates a lot
of the business in America forGuinness.
And he's part of their family,but also part of the Irish
Revolution, the Finnians.
Yes.
So he he plays both sides, buthe's not as evil as he was in

(51:23):
Game of Thrones, although he isa little manipulative.
I know that's kind of a nice wayto say it, but it was nice to
see Jack Gleason doing somethingother than Game of Thrones and
to do it in a way I didn't evenknow it was him at first.

SPEAKER_07 (51:33):
I didn't either.
Yeah.
Once you said it, I recognizedhim.
But until then, I did not.
So what do you think of historywhen it's fictionalized or
dramatized?

SPEAKER_09 (51:41):
Do you like fictional history or if you're
such a history guy?

SPEAKER_07 (51:45):
Yeah, if the end is the same, then the journey is
just all you're really talkingabout.
You know, we were not there forthose conversations.
So we can't say yes or no, theydid happen, did or didn't happen
the way that was portrayed inthe series.
However, you know, the storylinewent the way that it did in
history for the most part.
The end at where they stoppedthe story at this one was the

(52:05):
the same.
So I think fictionalizing it isgood.
You know, the writing was goodin this one.
I'm not always fond of that, butI yeah, I think to tell the
story, you have to do somemeasure of that.

SPEAKER_09 (52:16):
Well, I think what they did with House of Guinness,
they really upped maybe theviolence.
And Stephen Patrick kind of gavethem some different things that
probably are not historicallyaccurate.
And he did add a couple ofepisodes.
Like a lot of the characters,like we mentioned, cousin,
there's also a fixer that worksfor the family named Rafferty.

(52:37):
He's a made-up character.
He's not real.
A lot of the characters are madeup of kind of conglomerations of
people.
And there are a couple of bigevents that did not happen
historically.

SPEAKER_07 (52:48):
So as you watch it, do what we do and look it up to
see what is true and what is nottrue.
I used to do that on my own, butBrett does it so quickly now.
I I'd just let him do it andtell me.

SPEAKER_09 (52:57):
Well, I was actually a history major in college.
So every time I see somethingand I think it's a little bit
off, I immediately startthinking, oh my gosh, I gotta
find out right now.
I can't wait.
And I do a lot of that.
I do ping a lot of things justto get a good grip of what is
being dramatized and what isbeing chronicled.
But from what I could tell, thethe Guinness family, if we did
just a straight biography ofthem, would be kind of dull.

SPEAKER_07 (53:20):
Yeah, yeah.
Because they don't write thatstuff down.
And we see that everywhere.
I see that in my own family.
So that does not surprise me.
So fictionalizing it, yes, Ithink that is a good thing.

SPEAKER_09 (53:30):
I think the Guinnesses were kind of just
sweet people in general inhistory, because they started
like health care and pensionsand they provided housing for
the poor.
I mean, they were kind ofsaintly in a weird way in
Ireland.
Yeah.
But so I think that theGuinness, if we did a straight

(53:52):
history of them, it would bethat PBS documentary that might
be a little bit more slow-pacedand not quite.
And like I said, they compacteda lot of the time periods.
This one they make it almostimmediate.
But how likely would therelationships have been at that
time?

SPEAKER_07 (54:07):
Yeah, all of them seem to have these really
problematic relationships in thestories of their individual
stories.
So yeah, I have to ask myselfjust how many of them would be
true?
And I think the ones that theyportrayed for Arthur, I think
that gay relationships at thatpoint probably were something
very similar to what they wereshowing at that or in the

(54:28):
series.
And the relationship between himand his wife was probably
correct.
I would think that those wouldbe true to the period.

SPEAKER_09 (54:37):
Well, I mean, definitely his wife married to a
politician, married to a wealthyfamily, all of that.
She it was a lavender marriage,I think is what we call it.
Right.
Okay.
I mean, in history, we don'tknow.
They just never had anychildren.
So take of that as what youwill.
Maybe biological reason.
I mean, there may not be shecould have, or he could have not

(54:58):
have been able to have children.
So it doesn't uh mean that theywere or weren't.
And that kind of is just part ofmaking it dramatic.
I think it's giving a conflictbetween the brothers and the the
whole perception of, oh my gosh,I'm gonna hide the secret.
Right.
You know.
And it was interesting thatother brother, they kind of
layer in an affair.

(55:19):
And his life becomes almost abusiness negotiation too.
And I don't know.
I mean, I I I imagine thatpeople did often get married for
society reasons or prestige, orlike I'm gonna advance my family
name, but you know, they reallymake that kind of look.
The institution of marriage onHouse of Guinness does not look
particularly great.

SPEAKER_07 (55:38):
Even the daughter, even though the that was their
relationship with her husbandwasn't, you know, a front story
in there, you could tell thatthere were some difficulties in
that relationship, and she wasseeing someone else on the side.
So, as were all the rest ofthem.

SPEAKER_09 (55:52):
I mean, and that's a soap opera kind of thing to do.
The interesting thing I thoughtabout Anne Guinness is they make
the reason for her not to beincluded in her father's estate
is that she is married and thather husband will provide for
her.

SPEAKER_07 (56:03):
Yeah, which apparently he's not capable of.
I think the way they wrote herwas very, very smart.
I like the storyline for her andwhat she did and those things.
Very clever.
And yes, I would like to thinkthat she was that clever in real
life.

SPEAKER_09 (56:14):
Now, the Netflix show, it's only eight episodes,
easy to bench.

SPEAKER_07 (56:18):
And apparently they're gonna have a second
season.
Yes, they have a significantcliffhanger at the end.

SPEAKER_09 (56:23):
Yeah, and that cliffhanger was one of the ones
that I think they deviate alittle bit from history.
But I think it's to get themanother season.
Where do you think they could goin a second season?
I guess just more intrigue andrelationship trauma.

SPEAKER_07 (56:34):
Yeah, and the business continued to grow.
They they made some changes thatwe don't want to talk about here
because that'll spoil theseries.
But they do some things to setup storylines for a second
season.
Well, House of Guinness.

SPEAKER_09 (56:46):
Yep.
Definitely one that we wouldboth recommend.
Yep, for sure.
Got a little something foreverybody.
If you're Irish, if you'realcoholic, if you're into
politics, if you're into secretaffairs, really great clothes,
and Irish rap.
So you can do it all.
Got a little bit for everyone.

SPEAKER_03 (57:03):
This has been Queer Voices, heard on KPFT Houston.
And as a podcast available fromseveral podcasting sources,
check our webpagequeervoices.org for more
information.

SPEAKER_01 (57:17):
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