July 16, 2023 • 36 mins
Ready to embark on a melodious journey into the world of film music? Join Brad in an enlightening conversation with the extraordinary David Gonzalez, who has lent his mesmerizing musical talent to film and talent. David's insights on the significance of music in film – from its indispensable role during the silent movie era to its power to amplify cinematic brilliance in the present day – are nothing short of remarkable.
David's astute understanding of balancing sound effects' frequency ranges while scoring a busy action scene is just one of the many technical aspects that make him a maestro. Get ready to delve into the importance of a composer’s ego (or lack thereof) while creating a score that serves the narrative and not just their personal ambition.
As we progress, we turn our attention to the profound impact of documentary filmmaking and how it becomes a strong voice for marginalized communities. We discuss the importance of queer representation in film and television, emphasizing the need for characters to be more than just their sexuality. David and I also touch upon the controversial topic of straight actors playing gay roles. Brace yourself for an episode packed with insightful discussions on music, film and beyond.
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Star Wars Throne Room Scene without music
(Warning! You'll never see that scene the same way again after this)
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is Queer we Are.
When a movie succeeds, we knowwho gets the call the actors who
star in the film, the producers, the directors and sometimes
the writers, and there's nothingwrong with them getting
acknowledged for the hard workthey do.
(00:21):
But the average size of a crewworking on a movie is over 550
people and if you're a Spielbergor a Lucas, it can be the size
of a small town.
It takes a lot to put it alltogether and a lot of those
folks pat themselves and eachother on the back.
They don't get the stars on thewalk of fame.
One part of the crew thatshouldn't be overlooked are
(00:43):
critical to the success of afilm.
They take a good movie and theymake it spectacular and, yes,
they get awards, but they'restill taking a backseat
considering how critical theyare to the success of the movie.
And not only does Hollywoodtake them for granted, you do
too.
Yeah, you moviegoer, and yeah,you TV watcher.
Most of the time you don't evennotice the hard work they do,
(01:06):
and they wouldn't have it anyother way.
It means they're doing theirjob.
On Queer we Are, I interviewfantastic LGBTQ people who are
making a difference in keepingthe faith, and they don't dodge
the adversities we face.
They push through them.
How about some good news for achange, trying to keep hope
alive when the world feels likeit's going backwards?
(01:26):
My guests help you to keep thatspirit.
David was inspired by the movieshe grew up with and the
composers who write the musicfor the big screen.
It was a dream he pursued andhe made it Entertaining you on
the screens both big and small.
We had a lot of fun talkingmovies, so how about we just get
right to it?
My guest once again is DavidGonzalez, and I'm Brad Shreed.
(01:48):
Don't go anywhere, becauseQueer we Are.
David Gonzalez, you have been abusy man over the years and if
IMDb is right which I know it isnot always correct you are
credited with 32 being as partof Music Department, and then
(02:13):
you're credited 28 times inmovie, tv and theater.
And then you also haveproductions such as short films
and video games, and then yourlist includes such films as
Breathe, working man, dinner inAmerica.
Your television includes how IMet your Mother and Switched at
Birth.
Does that all sound about right?
(02:33):
The numbers?
Speaker 2 (02:34):
It does.
It's wild to lay it all outthere.
I think IMDb sometimesduplicates things every now and
then, so it might be a littlepushed up.
And actually sometimes I seethey're short, yeah, and
sometimes they'll put MusicDepartment as main title and
(02:55):
then they'll give you anothercredit under composer for music
by, so sometimes they'llduplicate it.
But yeah, I've been doing thisfor a really long time.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Well, you've been busy and kind of an aside that
has nothing really to do withour discussion.
What I don't understand aboutIMDb, I know usually the
celebrity or credited eitherthey or the agent submits their
pictures and sometimes I'm likethat doesn't look anything like
them.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Paul Rudd is an example.
I have a huge crush on PaulRudd, but his pictures I'm like
who is that guy?
Speaker 2 (03:30):
It's all the makeup.
It's all the makeup.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
No, no, no, Paula, don't tell me it's makeup,
that'll break my heart.
Well, I did something that keptme up late last night on
YouTube because I found it.
I don't know how, but it wasperfect for today.
Yeah, I've only given fleetingthoughts to the importance of
music and movies.
Sometimes it stands out morethan others.
Sure, and I found these.
(03:54):
So, to prepare, I watchedvideos of movie scenes without
the music and listen, if youwant something kind of fun and
fascinating.
Wow, it blew my mind.
And a few examples.
One was Avengers Endgame, thefinal battle.
Now, that one was kind of good,you know, because it's so action
(04:16):
packed and the battle was goingon, so I think it was still
good, but, man, when the musiccame on it was so much more
Right.
The other one was Jurassic Park, and that was the helicopter
landing up to the scene wherethey first see the dinosaurs,
the Brachosaurus.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Yeah, now that was decent, but when the movie, when
the music was added, it wasgrand.
It just added so much.
It was amazing.
The last one I watched actuallythe last of the many I watched
I'm going to bring up was Rocky.
Yes, and the scene is therunning scene.
He's running and then they showhim practice boxing and he's
(04:54):
running some more and then hegoes up to the steps of the
Philadelphia Art Museum and weall know that famous scene where
he's raising his hands.
Yep, I watched that without themusic and it was two and a half
minutes of the most painfulvideo I've ever seen.
It was so boring and just awful.
And him to stand on top of thesteps saying yeah, yeah, it's
(05:18):
like he looked ridiculous.
So you do an important job.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Yes, another good one is the throne room scene from
the end of Star Wars when, like,after the Death Star has
exploded and everything, andthey princess Leia is putting
the medals on Luke and Han Soloand R2-D2 is like do, do, do, do
, yay, no one's speaking in thatwhole scene.
(05:48):
So when you take the music out,it's so funny, you have to find
it.
I'll send it to you after.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Yeah, send it over.
So I'm curious after watchingthose, something came to my mind
In the silent movie era, musicwas absolutely necessary, I mean
, otherwise it would have beenpretty boring.
So they had the organ up frontor the piano.
I'm curious, and this is justprobably maybe a guess on your
part Do you think it's possiblewithout the silent films that we
(06:20):
may not have the music scorestoday or may have taken longer
for producers to say, hey, whatif we put music in there?
Speaker 2 (06:29):
You know it's.
It's really interesting whenyou think about the history of
film music specifically becauseits origin actually is an opera.
And you know, when you thinkabout film, a lot of cinematic
ideas are born out of originalopera, especially from the
(06:49):
silent film era.
That was a brand new medium forall of those folks.
And what were they watchingbefore they were watching movies
?
Well, they were going to theopera if they could afford it.
Opera, that was like the thingof the day, and so I think film
music was just going to becoming with film, no matter what
(07:13):
was going to happen, becauseopera was always paired with
music as well.
You couldn't have one withoutthe other, and so it obviously
has evolved a ton over the years.
You know, each decade you cankind of point to a particular
score and be like ah, that's thescore that defined that era.
(07:36):
You know if it's King Kong, orif it's Chinatown in the 70s or
in, or Star Wars, you know thereare so many different scores to
point to.
But I think when, when you doan exercise like taking the
music out, they did this at theHollywood Bowl a couple of years
(08:00):
ago also.
The Hollywood Bowl is the like abig outdoor amphitheater venue
in LA that seats like 18,000people, and at one of the John
Williams concerts they showed ascene from Indiana Jones.
They played it without anymusic and then they did it with
the dun-dun-dun-dun and it'sjust like amazing the crowd's
reaction when you added themusic Everyone's cheering.
(08:23):
It's just like it brings it tolife, and I don't know if I know
what the magic is of that thatbrings it to life, but there's,
there's something in our humanbody that reacts to it that I
can't define.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Yeah, because I even watched the Matrix the scene
where he goes into, he goesthrough a metal detector and
it's just massive shootingnonstop and I think that film
could have done without music,because it's bullets.
I mean, it's just nonstopbullets.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
I disagree what?
I think that that score is oneof the best scores ever.
I agree.
Score yeah, OK good.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Because I watched it without and then I watched it
with it because I thought, well,you know, there's so much
shooting You're not even goingto be able to hear the music.
But no, it really did make thescene.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
It's amazing to some of the considerations that come
into scoring when you have sucha busy action scene like that
too.
There are ways to write aroundthe bullets, there's ways to
write around the explosions, sothat that way the sound effects,
people still have their space,and then we get to do our thing
too.
So it's just knowing what thefrequency ranges of those sound
(09:35):
effects are and what will workmusically around that.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
Now, that is the type of scene, though, where people
don't realize that what ismaking it so good is is the
music, like they don't evennotice it.
But until it's not there, howdoes that make you feel?
Does that make you feel good,or is it kind of like gee, I
wish they really noticed themusic.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
It's funny For me.
I feel like every composer hasto deal with their ego at some
point or another and I alwayshave had the impression that if
no one says anything about themusic, I've done a really good
job In the last few projects.
I've seen reviews or whateverand there haven't been many
(10:22):
mentions of music and that meansthat I did a really good job
because at the end of the day,people really want to connect
with the characters and thestory and music is playing a
really important part in that,but it shouldn't be the main
focus.
The story and the character isthe most important part of that.
(10:43):
Now, in other mediums thatmight be different.
A video game might play alittle differently, it might be
more personal, but it'sinteresting how in different
mediums, it's still always goingto be about the character and
the story.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
That Star Wars scene in the throne room at the end of
the movie that David wastalking about, the clip that you
can see without the music.
I watched it and it isdeliciously painful and you
don't want to miss it, trust me.
And while you're clicking away,I want to tell you I love
getting the emails and themessages about how much you
enjoy the show, and please keepthem coming.
They put a smile on my face.
But now I'm asking for a favor.
(11:26):
Let others know by leaving areview on Apple Podcast or
wherever you listen to the show.
I know life is busy, but you'llencourage others to listen to,
and so you know what?
Don't do it for me.
Do them the favor.
That's what's really important.
So when you went to school, youmajored in film scoring of all
(11:50):
the different types of musicthat you could have gotten into.
Yeah, what was the catalystthat made you go in that
direction?
Speaker 2 (11:58):
So in high school I was trying to always find
applications of how I could makethe sound of the piano applied
to an orchestral sense, and theonly medium that I really was
aware of that being possible wasin film music.
I was a huge fan of films likeStar Wars and Road to Perdition
(12:23):
and Gladiator.
Those were all films that werereally inspiring to me and
basically encouraging me to getinto film music.
So I wrote for the high schoolband my junior and senior year
under the direction of ourfearless music leader, and it
was my first time writing forLarger Ensemble.
(12:46):
And I just knew BerkeleyCollege of Music happened to
just be in my backyard I grew upin Boston area so they were the
only school at the time thatoffered a program in film
scoring at the graduate level ornot graduate level, sorry, the
undergraduate level and so Iknew that's where I was gonna go
.
I applied to a few other spotsand it was, just like Berkeley's
(13:10):
, the obvious choice for me.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
And I'm not surprised that Star Wars is in there.
You mentioned Star Wars earlier.
It is really hard to imagineStar Wars without the music.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
I am a huge Star Wars fan and a huge John Williams
fan.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
And you know, I think most movies and live TV shows
each character has their ownmusic, but in Star Wars it is so
distinct yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
John Williams definitely implemented the opera
technique called Leet Motif,which is motifs or themes driven
by characters, and I think thatthat was also really
inspirational for me too.
You know just the idea thatevery character could have their
own musical statement when theycame on screen, and each time
(13:56):
you could change it depending onwhat their emotion is.
If they're sad, we're gonnaplay Princess Leia's theme sad,
For you know.
Happy, we're gonna play ithappier or more positive.
So it just offers so much spaceto play.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
And before the door opens or he comes around the
curb.
You know Darth Vader is on theway.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Oh for sure, there's those low cellos, you know, and
the low bases just kind ofglooming over everybody and you
know.
The same thing with like Jawsis another great example of a
film score that tells you a lotof information rather than you
know something's thereunderneath the water.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
As soon as that comes on, you're just grasping the
handle of the seat in thetheater.
You know it's coming.
Exactly so.
These characters have their owntheme song.
I think the world should be putto music.
If that was the case, what songwould play when you entered the
room?
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Oh, my goodness, that's a really great question.
I'm first thinking is itsomething that I've written or
is it something that someoneelse, someone else, has written?
I kind of want to go withsomeone else.
You know, I'm going to go withmy favorite artist of the moment
right now, which is Lizzo, andI'm going to go with about damn
(15:19):
time, because I think that thatsong is just a great anthem for
everybody in terms of positivity, and it's just like we're ready
.
We're ready and I'm ready forwhat's coming up next, whatever
that might be.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
That's a great answer .
I love that.
So back to movies that Icouldn't imagine without their
score.
One of my favorite movies ofall time is Breakfast at
Tiffany's yes, and Moon River.
It just I couldn't imagine itwithout Moon River.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Iconic, it's just iconic, oh my God.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
And then, without a doubt, the shower scene in
Psycho.
Bernard Hillman nailed it.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
It's a really great score too, because it's all just
a string section, so there's noother instruments than the
strings in that score.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
And the other one is TV.
The theme to Star Trek, boththe original series and then the
really grand next generation, Ithink fit both of them.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Oh for sure, they're all so equally iconic.
Yes, you know, the minute thatyou hear the da da, da, da, da
da, you know what's coming next.
Like, there we go, we're inspace.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Did you know there are lyrics to the original
series.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
You know, I've heard that version.
I don't remember what thelyrics are, though.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
They are horrible.
And if you want to know,another is an iconic song for TV
series.
It's Bonanza, bonanza.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
Ah, yes.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
And the very first episode.
The characters, the father andthe son, sing during it, if you
can find it.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
I will have to find that.
That's so funny.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
I'm not going to get it exactly right, but it's
something like we're going tofight and we got the might
bonanza.
After the first episode theysaid let's not do that anymore.
Yeah, Amazing.
Yeah, and the music just workedperfectly for that one.
Yeah.
(17:28):
So I'm going to toss it toughat you after this discussion.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Who do you think is the greatest film music composer
in history?
Speaker 2 (17:57):
Well, I'm biased because I've already said how
big of a fan I am of JohnWilliams, and so I think I have
to say John Williams.
There are other people that I'mhuge fans of as well, but in
terms of my number one, johnWilliams has just had such an
impact on inspiring my life.
(18:21):
He's a lot of the reason why Iam a composer and feel the need
to tell story through music,because he does it so
effortlessly.
It's just he's able to expressthrough melody and harmony what
is happening inside of acharacter's mind so eloquently.
(18:43):
I am thinking about the lastconcert that I went to where he
conducted the upcoming score toIndiana Jones 5.
And it was like he had justrecorded it the week before and
he was like I'm going to playyou guys a little treat right
now.
It was really funny and it wasjust such old timey Hollywood
(19:09):
score.
It's just gorgeous, it'sundeniable.
But there are others that I'm ahuge fan of.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
What other ones did he do that we would know I think
you may have mentioned earlier.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Yeah, so John Williams scored Jaws.
Et, jurassic Park, schindler'sList, saving Private Ryan.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
So he's done a few good ones.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
He's done every Steven Spielberg film, so yeah,
he knows his stuff for sure.
I know he was a busy guy.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
What do people misunderstand about you the most
?
Speaker 2 (19:49):
That's a really interesting question and good
question.
I think one of the things thatI struggle with in this industry
is the idea that you should belimited to a particular genre or
(20:09):
be what is like a one trickpony, in the sense that if you
have had success with a comedy,well then you should only do
comedies.
The same thing happens toactors.
It's almost like typecasting,in a way.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
That's exactly what I was thinking of, especially
when it comes to characteractors, but even primary actors
get the same.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Exactly, and so composers, actors, directors,
writers, all of us getpigeonholed in different genres
and it's really hard to breakout of that genre, and I'm
struggling myself because Ihaven't.
I've had success in manydifferent genres, and so I think
(20:53):
, in that regard, that's what'shard to define.
Earlier, one of ourpre-interview questions was
talking about like, what is yoursound, and I always have
struggled with what is my sound,because my sound is a little
bit of everything, and it's oneof those things that I think a
(21:14):
lot of younger composers arestill trying to define,
especially with the work that wedo as working as an assistant
with other composers, sometimesworking as ghost writers with
other composers, you'remimicking other people or you're
mimicking what, like I wasreferencing earlier, the temp
(21:35):
score, and so to then try tospend years doing that kind of
work and then having to definewhat it is that you do I also,
is hard because I can doeverything.
There isn't anything I can't do, and that's where it's like I
want to be able to do a sci-fi,black comedy.
(21:57):
That is a wild genre, but, like, who knows it must.
There must be a project outthere that does that, because
I'd be perfect for it.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
I can't think of one.
I can't think of one.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
I can think of Mars Attacks.
That's the one.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
So times are tough for the LGBTQ community.
Yeah, what keeps you motivatedand moving forward, and also any
thoughts on what we should bedoing.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
You know we haven't touched upon this genre yet.
Documentaries are a reallyimportant part of film, and I
love working on documentariesalso.
I've had the chance to work onit quite a few over the years,
from things that are about theHolocaust to things that are
(23:11):
about trees.
It runs the gamut ofinformation, and what I love
about it is you're telling areal story.
It's not made, there's nothingmade up about it, and a film
that comes to my mind that'sreally important for the LGBTQ
community is Paris is Burning,which I'm sure most of your
(23:34):
listeners are familiar with, butit's worth revisiting, and I
think I would love to work onmore documentaries that lift
voices of those who don't havethe opportunity to speak loudly.
You know, the most recentOscar-winning film for the
documentary was about Navalny inRussia, who's currently in jail
(23:57):
for speaking out against Putin,and so it's one of those things
that I think documentaryfilmmaking can be so important.
It's also, unfortunately, oneof the ones that doesn't make
that much money, because peoplewant the explosions and the big
bangs and you know all theeffects, but I feel like just
(24:18):
having that opportunity to sharetheir stories is going to be so
important, but the same is truefor all genres.
I think having queer charactersthat are there not entirely just
to be queer, but like they justhappen to be queer.
You know, it's kind of likewhat I was saying about being a
(24:39):
composer I want to just be acomposer that happens to be gay,
and not the other way around,and I think that's something
that our community is workingtowards.
But there's so many things andpeople that are against us.
Looking at the drag communityas an example, right now they're
(24:59):
being banned in states acrossthe country from performing, and
that's really a scary, scaryprospect, and I think education
and showing people that queerpeople are just humans at the
end of the day, just like you,is going to be the best thing
for us.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
And I had Coco.
Peru is one of my very firstguests and Del Shores was on
recently, and so I brought upTrick with both of them and one
of the beauties of that filmthat was so exciting is I hate
when I say this, but I don'tknow a better way to say it it
wasn't a gay film.
They weren't trying to make amessage.
It was just a fun romance or arom-com that just happened to
(25:42):
have two gay men.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Yeah, it's so important to just tell stories
that are relatable for everybodythat you could picture yourself
being one of the characters.
Whether you're straight or gayor whatever, or ace, like it
doesn't matter, you could havethat life experience of having
to do whatever.
Like that's what is a goodstory.
(26:07):
You know, so many bad moviesexist of straight people doing a
lot of really boring things andlike there could be queer
people doing boring things too.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
Well, and I kind of brought up during the Del Shores
episode.
Bird Cage is one of my favoritefilms.
I mean, I mean, if there'snothing else we can think of to
watch, we'll put that on.
But I don't connect to thatlike Trick.
I know those guys.
I don't know necessarily theguys on Bird Cage Bird Cage just
has great one liners and it'sfunny.
(26:38):
But I know the two guys, eventhough they were straight guys
that played the characters.
I know those guys very well.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
Yeah, yeah, it's almost like the discussion of
like, whether or not straightpeople should play gay
characters.
Like there's that kind ofdiscussion and I think that what
did you see?
The last of us?
No, there is this amazingsequence where Nick Offerman is
(27:06):
playing a gay character and Imean, I don't want to spoil it
but like, oh my God, it is thethird episode of this show
called the Last of Us, which isa post-apocalyptic zombie show
based off of a video game, andthe third episode is a
standalone short film.
Onto its own, that is one ofthe most beautiful examples of
(27:30):
queer love I've ever seen in mylife and I highly recommend it,
even if you haven't seen, ifyou're not going to watch the
show because it's about zombies.
But like that short film all byitself is a testament to what
queer love is and I think it'sinteresting that you know, a
straight character can play agay character so effortlessly
(27:53):
and I think that it's possibleand it's fine.
But yeah, it's an interestingdiscussion.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
I don't have an issue with it.
I mean, there were a lot of gayactors that were very upset
when Hal Sparks got the lead inQueer's Folk.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
But I think it was perfect for that role.
Yeah, and he's cute as can beRight.
It's one of those things, Ithink, when the show itself is
maybe trying to be like this isa queer show and about queer
people and we're doing queerthings, that might be where the
line gets blurred.
But like a zombie,post-apocalyptic show, you know,
(28:32):
being queer is the last of ourworries in that world.
You know that world, you'rejust trying to survive and if
you happen to be gay, well, thatdoesn't matter, you're still
going to get eaten by a zombie.
You know, and I think thatthat's what's great about that
show too, is it just kind oftakes away all of the bullshit
(28:52):
of race and orientation andbigotry that we have and really
lays it on how stupid it is thatwe as a human species have
developed these ideas?
Speaker 1 (29:05):
And if you want to see badass queer people watch
the last, several last seasonsof the Walking Dead I think you
have to cast yes Characters.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
Yes, yes, I haven't seen that show, but yeah, I need
to get into it.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
The first seasons are great.
As with any, it kind of went ontoo long, but you know whatever
.
So it has been great talking toyou, and what I'm going to do
is in the show notes I'm goingto have a link to your website.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
And you do have a good number of samples of your
music on the website I do, yeahas well as some of the credits
of your film.
Mm-hmm.
And you have multiple socialmedia outlets, which one is the
best one to reach out to you?
Speaker 2 (29:47):
Probably Instagram.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
That's me too, on the Queer.
We Are website on your page.
I'm going to have the Spotifyplaylist embedded there as well.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
Okay, cool, awesome, so people can pull that up as
well.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
That's a quick, easy way to do it.
And I like to get people overthe websites because I'll have
information about you, andthat's sort of some of the
things we discussed as well.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
So, david, thank you so much for being my guest.
It was a lot of fun.
It's going to be a three hourshow.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
I know we could just keep chatting all day long.
Thank you, Brad.
Thank you.
This is Queer we Are.
When a movie succeeds, we knowwho gets the call the actors who
star in the film, the producers, the directors and sometimes
the writers, and there's nothingwrong with them getting
acknowledged for the hard workthey do.
(00:21):
But the average size of a crewworking on a movie is over 550
people and if you're a Spielbergor a Lucas, it can be the size
of a small town.
It takes a lot to put it alltogether and a lot of those
folks pat themselves and eachother on the back.
They don't get the stars on thewalk of fame.
One part of the crew thatshouldn't be overlooked are
(00:43):
critical to the success of afilm.
They take a good movie and theymake it spectacular and, yes,
they get awards, but they'restill taking a backseat
considering how critical theyare to the success of the movie.
And not only does Hollywoodtake them for granted, you do
too.
Yeah, you moviegoer, and yeah,you TV watcher.
Most of the time you don't evennotice the hard work they do,
(01:06):
and they wouldn't have it anyother way.
It means they're doing theirjob.
On Queer we Are, I interviewfantastic LGBTQ people who are
making a difference in keepingthe faith, and they don't dodge
the adversities we face.
They push through them.
How about some good news for achange, trying to keep hope
alive when the world feels likeit's going backwards?
(01:26):
My guests help you to keep thatspirit.
David was inspired by the movieshe grew up with and the
composers who write the musicfor the big screen.
It was a dream he pursued andhe made it Entertaining you on
the screens both big and small.
We had a lot of fun talkingmovies, so how about we just get
right to it?
My guest once again is DavidGonzalez, and I'm Brad Shreed.
(01:48):
Don't go anywhere, becauseQueer we Are.
David Gonzalez, you have been abusy man over the years and if
IMDb is right which I know it isnot always correct you are
credited with 32 being as partof Music Department, and then
(02:13):
you're credited 28 times inmovie, tv and theater.
And then you also haveproductions such as short films
and video games, and then yourlist includes such films as
Breathe, working man, dinner inAmerica.
Your television includes how IMet your Mother and Switched at
Birth.
Does that all sound about right?
(02:33):
The numbers?
Speaker 2 (02:34):
It does.
It's wild to lay it all outthere.
I think IMDb sometimesduplicates things every now and
then, so it might be a littlepushed up.
And actually sometimes I seethey're short, yeah, and
sometimes they'll put MusicDepartment as main title and
(02:55):
then they'll give you anothercredit under composer for music
by, so sometimes they'llduplicate it.
But yeah, I've been doing thisfor a really long time.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Well, you've been busy and kind of an aside that
has nothing really to do withour discussion.
What I don't understand aboutIMDb, I know usually the
celebrity or credited eitherthey or the agent submits their
pictures and sometimes I'm likethat doesn't look anything like
them.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Paul Rudd is an example.
I have a huge crush on PaulRudd, but his pictures I'm like
who is that guy?
Speaker 2 (03:30):
It's all the makeup.
It's all the makeup.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
No, no, no, Paula, don't tell me it's makeup,
that'll break my heart.
Well, I did something that keptme up late last night on
YouTube because I found it.
I don't know how, but it wasperfect for today.
Yeah, I've only given fleetingthoughts to the importance of
music and movies.
Sometimes it stands out morethan others.
Sure, and I found these.
(03:54):
So, to prepare, I watchedvideos of movie scenes without
the music and listen, if youwant something kind of fun and
fascinating.
Wow, it blew my mind.
And a few examples.
One was Avengers Endgame, thefinal battle.
Now, that one was kind of good,you know, because it's so action
(04:16):
packed and the battle was goingon, so I think it was still
good, but, man, when the musiccame on it was so much more
Right.
The other one was Jurassic Park, and that was the helicopter
landing up to the scene wherethey first see the dinosaurs,
the Brachosaurus.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Yeah, now that was decent, but when the movie, when
the music was added, it wasgrand.
It just added so much.
It was amazing.
The last one I watched actuallythe last of the many I watched
I'm going to bring up was Rocky.
Yes, and the scene is therunning scene.
He's running and then they showhim practice boxing and he's
(04:54):
running some more and then hegoes up to the steps of the
Philadelphia Art Museum and weall know that famous scene where
he's raising his hands.
Yep, I watched that without themusic and it was two and a half
minutes of the most painfulvideo I've ever seen.
It was so boring and just awful.
And him to stand on top of thesteps saying yeah, yeah, it's
(05:18):
like he looked ridiculous.
So you do an important job.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Yes, another good one is the throne room scene from
the end of Star Wars when, like,after the Death Star has
exploded and everything, andthey princess Leia is putting
the medals on Luke and Han Soloand R2-D2 is like do, do, do, do
, yay, no one's speaking in thatwhole scene.
(05:48):
So when you take the music out,it's so funny, you have to find
it.
I'll send it to you after.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Yeah, send it over.
So I'm curious after watchingthose, something came to my mind
In the silent movie era, musicwas absolutely necessary, I mean
, otherwise it would have beenpretty boring.
So they had the organ up frontor the piano.
I'm curious, and this is justprobably maybe a guess on your
part Do you think it's possiblewithout the silent films that we
(06:20):
may not have the music scorestoday or may have taken longer
for producers to say, hey, whatif we put music in there?
Speaker 2 (06:29):
You know it's.
It's really interesting whenyou think about the history of
film music specifically becauseits origin actually is an opera.
And you know, when you thinkabout film, a lot of cinematic
ideas are born out of originalopera, especially from the
(06:49):
silent film era.
That was a brand new medium forall of those folks.
And what were they watchingbefore they were watching movies
?
Well, they were going to theopera if they could afford it.
Opera, that was like the thingof the day, and so I think film
music was just going to becoming with film, no matter what
(07:13):
was going to happen, becauseopera was always paired with
music as well.
You couldn't have one withoutthe other, and so it obviously
has evolved a ton over the years.
You know, each decade you cankind of point to a particular
score and be like ah, that's thescore that defined that era.
(07:36):
You know if it's King Kong, orif it's Chinatown in the 70s or
in, or Star Wars, you know thereare so many different scores to
point to.
But I think when, when you doan exercise like taking the
music out, they did this at theHollywood Bowl a couple of years
(08:00):
ago also.
The Hollywood Bowl is the like abig outdoor amphitheater venue
in LA that seats like 18,000people, and at one of the John
Williams concerts they showed ascene from Indiana Jones.
They played it without anymusic and then they did it with
the dun-dun-dun-dun and it'sjust like amazing the crowd's
reaction when you added themusic Everyone's cheering.
(08:23):
It's just like it brings it tolife, and I don't know if I know
what the magic is of that thatbrings it to life, but there's,
there's something in our humanbody that reacts to it that I
can't define.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Yeah, because I even watched the Matrix the scene
where he goes into, he goesthrough a metal detector and
it's just massive shootingnonstop and I think that film
could have done without music,because it's bullets.
I mean, it's just nonstopbullets.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
I disagree what?
I think that that score is oneof the best scores ever.
I agree.
Score yeah, OK good.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Because I watched it without and then I watched it
with it because I thought, well,you know, there's so much
shooting You're not even goingto be able to hear the music.
But no, it really did make thescene.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
It's amazing to some of the considerations that come
into scoring when you have sucha busy action scene like that
too.
There are ways to write aroundthe bullets, there's ways to
write around the explosions, sothat that way the sound effects,
people still have their space,and then we get to do our thing
too.
So it's just knowing what thefrequency ranges of those sound
(09:35):
effects are and what will workmusically around that.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
Now, that is the type of scene, though, where people
don't realize that what ismaking it so good is is the
music, like they don't evennotice it.
But until it's not there, howdoes that make you feel?
Does that make you feel good,or is it kind of like gee, I
wish they really noticed themusic.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
It's funny For me.
I feel like every composer hasto deal with their ego at some
point or another and I alwayshave had the impression that if
no one says anything about themusic, I've done a really good
job In the last few projects.
I've seen reviews or whateverand there haven't been many
(10:22):
mentions of music and that meansthat I did a really good job
because at the end of the day,people really want to connect
with the characters and thestory and music is playing a
really important part in that,but it shouldn't be the main
focus.
The story and the character isthe most important part of that.
(10:43):
Now, in other mediums thatmight be different.
A video game might play alittle differently, it might be
more personal, but it'sinteresting how in different
mediums, it's still always goingto be about the character and
the story.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
That Star Wars scene in the throne room at the end of
the movie that David wastalking about, the clip that you
can see without the music.
I watched it and it isdeliciously painful and you
don't want to miss it, trust me.
And while you're clicking away,I want to tell you I love
getting the emails and themessages about how much you
enjoy the show, and please keepthem coming.
They put a smile on my face.
But now I'm asking for a favor.
(11:26):
Let others know by leaving areview on Apple Podcast or
wherever you listen to the show.
I know life is busy, but you'llencourage others to listen to,
and so you know what?
Don't do it for me.
Do them the favor.
That's what's really important.
So when you went to school, youmajored in film scoring of all
(11:50):
the different types of musicthat you could have gotten into.
Yeah, what was the catalystthat made you go in that
direction?
Speaker 2 (11:58):
So in high school I was trying to always find
applications of how I could makethe sound of the piano applied
to an orchestral sense, and theonly medium that I really was
aware of that being possible wasin film music.
I was a huge fan of films likeStar Wars and Road to Perdition
(12:23):
and Gladiator.
Those were all films that werereally inspiring to me and
basically encouraging me to getinto film music.
So I wrote for the high schoolband my junior and senior year
under the direction of ourfearless music leader, and it
was my first time writing forLarger Ensemble.
(12:46):
And I just knew BerkeleyCollege of Music happened to
just be in my backyard I grew upin Boston area so they were the
only school at the time thatoffered a program in film
scoring at the graduate level ornot graduate level, sorry, the
undergraduate level and so Iknew that's where I was gonna go
.
I applied to a few other spotsand it was, just like Berkeley's
(13:10):
, the obvious choice for me.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
And I'm not surprised that Star Wars is in there.
You mentioned Star Wars earlier.
It is really hard to imagineStar Wars without the music.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
I am a huge Star Wars fan and a huge John Williams
fan.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
And you know, I think most movies and live TV shows
each character has their ownmusic, but in Star Wars it is so
distinct yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
John Williams definitely implemented the opera
technique called Leet Motif,which is motifs or themes driven
by characters, and I think thatthat was also really
inspirational for me too.
You know just the idea thatevery character could have their
own musical statement when theycame on screen, and each time
(13:56):
you could change it depending onwhat their emotion is.
If they're sad, we're gonnaplay Princess Leia's theme sad,
For you know.
Happy, we're gonna play ithappier or more positive.
So it just offers so much spaceto play.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
And before the door opens or he comes around the
curb.
You know Darth Vader is on theway.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Oh for sure, there's those low cellos, you know, and
the low bases just kind ofglooming over everybody and you
know.
The same thing with like Jawsis another great example of a
film score that tells you a lotof information rather than you
know something's thereunderneath the water.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
As soon as that comes on, you're just grasping the
handle of the seat in thetheater.
You know it's coming.
Exactly so.
These characters have their owntheme song.
I think the world should be putto music.
If that was the case, what songwould play when you entered the
room?
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Oh, my goodness, that's a really great question.
I'm first thinking is itsomething that I've written or
is it something that someoneelse, someone else, has written?
I kind of want to go withsomeone else.
You know, I'm going to go withmy favorite artist of the moment
right now, which is Lizzo, andI'm going to go with about damn
(15:19):
time, because I think that thatsong is just a great anthem for
everybody in terms of positivity, and it's just like we're ready
.
We're ready and I'm ready forwhat's coming up next, whatever
that might be.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
That's a great answer .
I love that.
So back to movies that Icouldn't imagine without their
score.
One of my favorite movies ofall time is Breakfast at
Tiffany's yes, and Moon River.
It just I couldn't imagine itwithout Moon River.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Iconic, it's just iconic, oh my God.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
And then, without a doubt, the shower scene in
Psycho.
Bernard Hillman nailed it.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
It's a really great score too, because it's all just
a string section, so there's noother instruments than the
strings in that score.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
And the other one is TV.
The theme to Star Trek, boththe original series and then the
really grand next generation, Ithink fit both of them.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Oh for sure, they're all so equally iconic.
Yes, you know, the minute thatyou hear the da da, da, da, da
da, you know what's coming next.
Like, there we go, we're inspace.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Did you know there are lyrics to the original
series.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
You know, I've heard that version.
I don't remember what thelyrics are, though.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
They are horrible.
And if you want to know,another is an iconic song for TV
series.
It's Bonanza, bonanza.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
Ah, yes.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
And the very first episode.
The characters, the father andthe son, sing during it, if you
can find it.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
I will have to find that.
That's so funny.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
I'm not going to get it exactly right, but it's
something like we're going tofight and we got the might
bonanza.
After the first episode theysaid let's not do that anymore.
Yeah, Amazing.
Yeah, and the music just workedperfectly for that one.
Yeah.
(17:28):
So I'm going to toss it toughat you after this discussion.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Who do you think is the greatest film music composer
in history?
Speaker 2 (17:57):
Well, I'm biased because I've already said how
big of a fan I am of JohnWilliams, and so I think I have
to say John Williams.
There are other people that I'mhuge fans of as well, but in
terms of my number one, johnWilliams has just had such an
impact on inspiring my life.
(18:21):
He's a lot of the reason why Iam a composer and feel the need
to tell story through music,because he does it so
effortlessly.
It's just he's able to expressthrough melody and harmony what
is happening inside of acharacter's mind so eloquently.
(18:43):
I am thinking about the lastconcert that I went to where he
conducted the upcoming score toIndiana Jones 5.
And it was like he had justrecorded it the week before and
he was like I'm going to playyou guys a little treat right
now.
It was really funny and it wasjust such old timey Hollywood
(19:09):
score.
It's just gorgeous, it'sundeniable.
But there are others that I'm ahuge fan of.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
What other ones did he do that we would know I think
you may have mentioned earlier.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Yeah, so John Williams scored Jaws.
Et, jurassic Park, schindler'sList, saving Private Ryan.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
So he's done a few good ones.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
He's done every Steven Spielberg film, so yeah,
he knows his stuff for sure.
I know he was a busy guy.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
What do people misunderstand about you the most
?
Speaker 2 (19:49):
That's a really interesting question and good
question.
I think one of the things thatI struggle with in this industry
is the idea that you should belimited to a particular genre or
(20:09):
be what is like a one trickpony, in the sense that if you
have had success with a comedy,well then you should only do
comedies.
The same thing happens toactors.
It's almost like typecasting,in a way.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
That's exactly what I was thinking of, especially
when it comes to characteractors, but even primary actors
get the same.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Exactly, and so composers, actors, directors,
writers, all of us getpigeonholed in different genres
and it's really hard to breakout of that genre, and I'm
struggling myself because Ihaven't.
I've had success in manydifferent genres, and so I think
(20:53):
, in that regard, that's what'shard to define.
Earlier, one of ourpre-interview questions was
talking about like, what is yoursound, and I always have
struggled with what is my sound,because my sound is a little
bit of everything, and it's oneof those things that I think a
(21:14):
lot of younger composers arestill trying to define,
especially with the work that wedo as working as an assistant
with other composers, sometimesworking as ghost writers with
other composers, you'remimicking other people or you're
mimicking what, like I wasreferencing earlier, the temp
(21:35):
score, and so to then try tospend years doing that kind of
work and then having to definewhat it is that you do I also,
is hard because I can doeverything.
There isn't anything I can't do, and that's where it's like I
want to be able to do a sci-fi,black comedy.
(21:57):
That is a wild genre, but, like, who knows it must.
There must be a project outthere that does that, because
I'd be perfect for it.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
I can't think of one.
I can't think of one.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
I can think of Mars Attacks.
That's the one.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
So times are tough for the LGBTQ community.
Yeah, what keeps you motivatedand moving forward, and also any
thoughts on what we should bedoing.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
You know we haven't touched upon this genre yet.
Documentaries are a reallyimportant part of film, and I
love working on documentariesalso.
I've had the chance to work onit quite a few over the years,
from things that are about theHolocaust to things that are
(23:11):
about trees.
It runs the gamut ofinformation, and what I love
about it is you're telling areal story.
It's not made, there's nothingmade up about it, and a film
that comes to my mind that'sreally important for the LGBTQ
community is Paris is Burning,which I'm sure most of your
(23:34):
listeners are familiar with, butit's worth revisiting, and I
think I would love to work onmore documentaries that lift
voices of those who don't havethe opportunity to speak loudly.
You know, the most recentOscar-winning film for the
documentary was about Navalny inRussia, who's currently in jail
(23:57):
for speaking out against Putin,and so it's one of those things
that I think documentaryfilmmaking can be so important.
It's also, unfortunately, oneof the ones that doesn't make
that much money, because peoplewant the explosions and the big
bangs and you know all theeffects, but I feel like just
(24:18):
having that opportunity to sharetheir stories is going to be so
important, but the same is truefor all genres.
I think having queer charactersthat are there not entirely just
to be queer, but like they justhappen to be queer.
You know, it's kind of likewhat I was saying about being a
(24:39):
composer I want to just be acomposer that happens to be gay,
and not the other way around,and I think that's something
that our community is workingtowards.
But there's so many things andpeople that are against us.
Looking at the drag communityas an example, right now they're
(24:59):
being banned in states acrossthe country from performing, and
that's really a scary, scaryprospect, and I think education
and showing people that queerpeople are just humans at the
end of the day, just like you,is going to be the best thing
for us.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
And I had Coco.
Peru is one of my very firstguests and Del Shores was on
recently, and so I brought upTrick with both of them and one
of the beauties of that filmthat was so exciting is I hate
when I say this, but I don'tknow a better way to say it it
wasn't a gay film.
They weren't trying to make amessage.
It was just a fun romance or arom-com that just happened to
(25:42):
have two gay men.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Yeah, it's so important to just tell stories
that are relatable for everybodythat you could picture yourself
being one of the characters.
Whether you're straight or gayor whatever, or ace, like it
doesn't matter, you could havethat life experience of having
to do whatever.
Like that's what is a goodstory.
(26:07):
You know, so many bad moviesexist of straight people doing a
lot of really boring things andlike there could be queer
people doing boring things too.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
Well, and I kind of brought up during the Del Shores
episode.
Bird Cage is one of my favoritefilms.
I mean, I mean, if there'snothing else we can think of to
watch, we'll put that on.
But I don't connect to thatlike Trick.
I know those guys.
I don't know necessarily theguys on Bird Cage Bird Cage just
has great one liners and it'sfunny.
(26:38):
But I know the two guys, eventhough they were straight guys
that played the characters.
I know those guys very well.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
Yeah, yeah, it's almost like the discussion of
like, whether or not straightpeople should play gay
characters.
Like there's that kind ofdiscussion and I think that what
did you see?
The last of us?
No, there is this amazingsequence where Nick Offerman is
(27:06):
playing a gay character and Imean, I don't want to spoil it
but like, oh my God, it is thethird episode of this show
called the Last of Us, which isa post-apocalyptic zombie show
based off of a video game, andthe third episode is a
standalone short film.
Onto its own, that is one ofthe most beautiful examples of
(27:30):
queer love I've ever seen in mylife and I highly recommend it,
even if you haven't seen, ifyou're not going to watch the
show because it's about zombies.
But like that short film all byitself is a testament to what
queer love is and I think it'sinteresting that you know, a
straight character can play agay character so effortlessly
(27:53):
and I think that it's possibleand it's fine.
But yeah, it's an interestingdiscussion.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
I don't have an issue with it.
I mean, there were a lot of gayactors that were very upset
when Hal Sparks got the lead inQueer's Folk.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
But I think it was perfect for that role.
Yeah, and he's cute as can beRight.
It's one of those things, Ithink, when the show itself is
maybe trying to be like this isa queer show and about queer
people and we're doing queerthings, that might be where the
line gets blurred.
But like a zombie,post-apocalyptic show, you know,
(28:32):
being queer is the last of ourworries in that world.
You know that world, you'rejust trying to survive and if
you happen to be gay, well, thatdoesn't matter, you're still
going to get eaten by a zombie.
You know, and I think thatthat's what's great about that
show too, is it just kind oftakes away all of the bullshit
(28:52):
of race and orientation andbigotry that we have and really
lays it on how stupid it is thatwe as a human species have
developed these ideas?
Speaker 1 (29:05):
And if you want to see badass queer people watch
the last, several last seasonsof the Walking Dead I think you
have to cast yes Characters.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
Yes, yes, I haven't seen that show, but yeah, I need
to get into it.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
The first seasons are great.
As with any, it kind of went ontoo long, but you know whatever
.
So it has been great talking toyou, and what I'm going to do
is in the show notes I'm goingto have a link to your website.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
And you do have a good number of samples of your
music on the website I do, yeahas well as some of the credits
of your film.
Mm-hmm.
And you have multiple socialmedia outlets, which one is the
best one to reach out to you?
Speaker 2 (29:47):
Probably Instagram.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
That's me too, on the Queer.
We Are website on your page.
I'm going to have the Spotifyplaylist embedded there as well.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
Okay, cool, awesome, so people can pull that up as
well.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
That's a quick, easy way to do it.
And I like to get people overthe websites because I'll have
information about you, andthat's sort of some of the
things we discussed as well.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
So, david, thank you so much for being my guest.
It was a lot of fun.
It's going to be a three hourshow.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
I know we could just keep chatting all day long.
Thank you, Brad.
Thank you.
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