March 15, 2023 • 46 mins
Jenni (she/they) of Jenni Chapman Photography is a queer, non-binary photographer and creative who started her career ten years ago in the actor headshot and theatre space. This unique experience paved the way for her specialty in wedding photography and creative portraits in the San Francisco Bay area. She’s a fierce advocate for the LGBTQ+ community and believes in the importance of diverse, intersectional representation, which she hopes to keep promoting through her photography and work on the Queer Soul project.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
clearly Beloved, welcome back tothis week's episode.
(00:03):
This week I am chatting withJenny Chapman of Jenny Chapman
Photography, and I'm so excitedbecause I was actually on
Jenny's podcast, I don't know,maybe like a couple months ago.
It was quite a while ago.
and now we're finally gettingto, you know, kind of change,
return the favor.
(00:24):
Yeah.
So thanks so much for beinghere.
I would love if you couldintroduce yourself and your
pronouns and any.
important identities.
Beautiful.
Love it.
Hi everyone.
My name is Jenny.
My pronouns are she, theyinterchangeably do whatever you
like.
Those, both of those are fine.
Just don't call me he him.
and I identify as queer and Iidentify as non-binary.
(00:50):
Love it.
Yay.
Thank you again for being here.
Of course.
well, I of course like have somequestions that I'd love to chat
with you about, but also.
we have connected, like throughthe photography world and yeah,
I think that's super important.
So tell us a little bit aboutwhat you do.
Yeah.
I am a creative portrait andwedding photographer based in
(01:13):
the San Francisco Bay area.
I, Do a lot of different things.
I take pictures, uh, forweddings and elopement and
couples and individuals andfamilies, like kind of
everything.
But the overarching theme foreverything is that, you know,
you deserve to have like a superfun photo shoot experience where
you feel gorgeous and likegenuinely you.
(01:34):
And I think there's a lot ofpeople that come to me being
like, oh, everyone in yourpictures look so amazing and
like, we wanna hire you, butlike, we're not gonna look like
that cuz we're awkward and uninfo.
And, and that's so valid.
But I firmly believe that beingphotogenic can be taught and you
just have to be guided.
Right?
And so, you know, I, I, youknow, oh, you know, look at my
(01:54):
photos.
Who do you think is aprofessional model?
Well, they came to me too,saying that they were awkward
and un photogenic.
So it's all about.
you know, this start to finishexperience regardless of what
kind of photographer you'rehiring me for.
Where you feel in control, youfeel confident.
You get all the tools likestyling, guidance, and posing
and everything, so that by thetime you get in front of my
(02:14):
camera, you're very excited andyou don't feel nervous, and we
just got to have a great timebecause if you're having a great
time, the photos will go from.
they're good photos.
I know how to take photos tosomething that is really, really
meaningful to you and, andsomething that is a really
authentic representation of whoyou are, that you are gonna
treasure for a really long time.
That's what I love to do.
(02:35):
And obviously like as a queerperson, I love, uh, working with
queer people.
I've done like top surgeryphotos I've done, I have the,
the Queer Soul Project, which isa thing I do.
Uh, telling stories, uh, thestories of queer people through
photos and through my podcast,which I hope to one day turn
into a book.
(02:55):
Hey, that's all I didn't knowthat Yeah.
Yeah.
Once I get enough people, Iwanna, I wanna get
representation and publish it asa book with like all the photos
and everyone's story, and thenlittle q.
Scan things for, each of theepisodes.
I just think it's so important,to have really diverse
intersectional representation.
because when you see someonelike I came out so late, because
(03:19):
I didn't really see any very,you know, I'm not super, super
feminine, but like I'm not butchand, and I didn't really see a
lot of fem lesbians or, uh, emnon-binary people.
And so I didn't think, like Iimmediately ruled out being.
because I didn't want to looklike a butch lesbian.
That's not how I feelcomfortable in myself.
(03:39):
and it wasn't until I startedseeing that representation that,
you know, their lived experiencegave me permission to do it
myself.
And I think there's so manycorners of the beautiful, varied
queer community that, you know,we don't see any of, you know,
like name, a name, a queerperson with a limb.
name, a two-spirit person, namea, a queer person who uses a
(04:03):
wheelchair, like I don't, I'msure they're out there, but like
if you're like that, if that'show you identify and that's how
you live.
If you're not seeing that, ifyou're not seeing someone be
successful and in love and happywho looks and lives and loves
like you, it's very easy toconvince yourself that those
things aren't possible for you.
(04:24):
So that's what I'm trying tolike undo a little bit and.
get that representation outthere.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Oh, that's beautiful.
And that, yeah, that was kinda,thank you.
Like a follow up question I hadtoo is like when you started
your business, like has itsince?
kind of shifted more towardslike the queer space or have you
always kind of lived in thatspace for business?
(04:48):
I have been a photographer for10 years, which is wild.
I mean, I started right at theend of high school, and, and I
didn't come out until I was 21,so it was absolutely not.
What it was in the beginning.
I actually started in the actorheadshot space, and shooting
shows, for archival and like,uh, promotional purposes.
(05:12):
I, I have been doing theatersince I was very, very little.
I have a degree in musicaltheater, so I know all the
actors, the clienteles built in,and, uh, actor headshots are
different.
It's a different beast than likeLinkedIn photos or even branding
photos for like a photographerbecause.
in a picture.
When you go to like an audition,often they see your headshot
(05:35):
before they meet you.
And in that headshot you need toshow them that you are right for
the show they're trying to castand what you're like as a han
being.
Because when they see hundredsand hundreds of people and then
they lay out all the headshots,try to figure out who they're
gonna call back and cast.
Just your photo has to representyour authentic energy and the
(05:58):
character energy.
That they will remember you andgo, oh my God, we have to have
that person.
So it's very, very specificallystrategic and coming at that
from an actor perspective,myself, who had been really
helpful.
I still do that a little bit,but, that's definitely not my
main thing anymore.
Uh, it doesn't feel as ascreative as the work I wanna be
(06:18):
doing.
but I just, I still do it some,but that's where I started.
I really, you know, I would goto, uh, I don't know if people
know how shows work.
Uh, like the week before youstart performances is the
really, most of the time, thefirst week you actually are
performing on the stage at all.
Usually you're in like arehearsal room and that week
that you're in the theater forthe first time, you start
incorporating costes and bitesand microphones and the
(06:42):
orchestra and like all the stuffand, uh, the very.
Rehearsal that you do, where yourun through the show with
absolutely everything as ifthere's an audience there, it's
your last chance to practice.
Uh, they will often have aphotographer there taking
pictures of the show as ithappens.
cuz they're not gonna interruptany audience members.
There aren't any, uh, and theyuse those photos to promote the
(07:03):
show.
And so I was doing that a lot,which is so, so fun.
It's a lot like shootingweddings actually.
because things happen veryquickly and once they happen,
they're gone.
So like if you don't, if you'renot on top of your shit, you
don't know that the first kissis coming, you can miss it.
If you don't, you know, ifyou're not actively looking for
moments, you're gonna miss'em.
(07:24):
and, and so I, I found myselfsort of uniquely trained to do
weddings before I even starteddoing weddings.
because there's so manyparallels of like, this is a
real thing happening in themoment.
You have one shot go.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I love, I love that connectionyou made between like shows and
(07:47):
weddings.
I think that's super interestingand something I never would've
thought about.
Speaking of weddings, I hearthat someone's engaged, which is
not like new information.
It's such old information thateveryone in our lives has assed
that we're already married.
Like, like we've been engagedfor almost two years and, and
(08:09):
everyone's like, oh, you'remarried now, hon.
I'm like, literally no.
Nope.
Dang September.
That's so weird.
I didn't, I didn.
I knew you had been engaged fora while.
I didn't know it was almost twoyears.
Yeah.
Understand you saying.
Yeah.
We got engaged, uh, June, June,2021.
(08:29):
and, and there was such abacklog of people getting
married cuz of the pandemic.
And we knew we wanted, uh, likelate smer, early fall wedding.
So obviously it wasn't gonna belate smer, early fall 2021
cause.
a couple months later.
and then with the backlog, we, Imean, venues were booking out
(08:52):
two years, so we wasn't gonna belate smer, early, early fall
2022.
So here we are.
Yeah, no, that makes sense.
And uh, I mean, obviously assomeone in the industry, you're
like, no, that it.
it takes a minute to planthings, and you're also probably
looking for specific things, sothat Totally, and we're, we're
(09:13):
doing a lot of, uh,non-traditional things.
And so it's been, uh,interesting finding like a
caterer that is willing to dobreakfast for dinner for 50
people on a Saturday because youcould make a ton more money
making 200 steaks for a Saturdaynight wedding.
And, and so finding someonethat's willing to do something.
(09:34):
a little bit less fancy forfewer people, is like not a
great business move for them,but that's what we want.
And so it's like, you know, it'sbeen an interesting tr we did
find someone, they're amazing.
but it's definitely been aprocess and, and I don't mind
that we've been engaged for solong because we really got to
just like spend a year beingengaged and showing off our
rings and having a nice time andnot even thinking about it and
(09:56):
then jping in.
And so we really haven't feltsuper stressed about wedding
planning, just.
We have time and we're doingthings with time to spare and
it's all right.
I think there's gonna be thatmad rush at the end, but it's
all just sort of happening.
It's, it's chucking along.
Also, we're not doing anythinglike crazy fancy like it, we
(10:16):
wanna treat it like a chosenfamily, family reunion that
happens to have a wedding at theend.
So it's gonna be, it's gonna besuper fun and, and chill and a
good time.
Yeah.
Aw, yeah.
That's super great to hear thatlike everything has been pretty
relaxed.
Yeah.
yeah.
I feel like more people shouldtake that approach cuz Yeah.
(10:38):
You wanna like, enjoy it versusbeing like, I can't even
remember that time of my lifecuz we were just like running
around and Oh, yeah.
Gross.
No, I mean the only things that,that were stressful were like,
we found.
Lost two venues before we foundthe one that we wanted that
actually worked out.
the first one that, Found andloved.
(11:00):
I will name drop, uh, Los LoisLodging Carmel.
they were listed on the Knot asbeing a queer friendly venue.
We talked to the owners.
They were like, come down, we'lldo a tour.
It'll be great.
Uh, within five minutes of usbeing there, uh, on our private
tour, they knew who we were.
Uh, they asked us if we weresisters, and I was like, that's
weird to ask.
(11:20):
A couple touring a weddingvenue.
And then, uh, they have, theyhave very, uh, gendered getting
ready areas.
So the groom getting ready areais very like, not well lit.
There's a PS four, whatever.
but it's okay.
Our get our, uh, our weddingparty is pretty small and we
wanna get ready together.
And I told them that I was like,your, you know, bridal getting
(11:41):
ready area is huge.
We're fine.
And.
They were like, oh my God, youcan't get ready together.
Like you can't see each otherbefore the wedding.
And I was like, uh, actually wecan.
And uh, we're just not gettingdressed together, we're just
gonna like, we'll do a firstlook with just putting on the
outfits.
And the owner literally went,oh, thank God at least you're
doing that.
(12:01):
And I was like, okay.
And despite those red flags, wewere like, you know what?
Send us a contract.
We love the venue.
It's not like they're gonna bereally involved in our day.
Like, as a business owner, likeI love contracts.
I love a contract because I knowwhat I can expect from you, you
know, what you can expect fromme.
Contracts are amazing.
This sad excuse for a docent,uh, I actually ended up having a
(12:26):
list of, I started, you know,writing down my questions.
My list of questions was longerthan the contract, and they had,
it was like, you know, uh,you're the, the venue cost is
this much and it includes table.
chairs.
And I'm like, okay, so legallyyou're gonna provide me two
tables and two chairs, and thenmake me pay an upgrade.
Like what does this mean?
(12:47):
And they had a music policy thatwas like, no rapper hip hop
period.
And I was like, I'm a littlewhite lady.
and my racism bell is dinging.
So like, and so I just followedup with'em.
I was like, Hey, like I'm surethis wasn't your intention, but
like this comes off a littleracist.
And like I got screamed at viaemail for accusing them of being
(13:09):
racist.
And they were like, it's abouthaving bad words.
Our neighbors don't wanna hearbad words.
And I was like, cool.
So the term for that isexplicit.
Like there's plenty of othergenres of.
like, I can tell you're coveringyour ass.
This is not what this was.
so we dropped them.
We, we ghosted them for goodreason.
And I will tell everyone far andwide not to hire them.
(13:30):
It was a mess.
we found a second venue that weloved, we were obsessed with.
but even cutting every singlecorner we could far beyond what
we were comfortable with.
Budget wise, we were still about$10,000.
To pay for it.
So that fell through, which wasdevastating, but you know, it's
(13:53):
fine.
Uh, but we, this is like fullcircle moment.
The very first venue I evenlooked up on the internet.
ended up being our venue and wedidn't tour with them initially
because our initial plan washaving everyone stay on site for
the full weekend, like, youknow, like cabins or whatever.
(14:15):
And this venue doesn't havethat.
And so I immediately mixed it.
I was like, it's perfect exceptfor it doesn't have this.
Mm-hmm.
And so once we gave up the ideaof uh, having people stay on
site cuz that wasn't available,that doesn't exist in California
in our budget, I went back to itand I was.
This is perfect except for thething that we just gave up and
so we went and toured.
(14:36):
It's perfect.
It's Saratoga Springs inSaratoga, California.
It's amazing.
and.
We did like a group tour andthen we were about to leave and
I realized I had a question.
So we went back to ask and therewas a couple in there putting
their name on the calendar and Iwas like, oh, I didn't know we
could do that.
Like, you know, just get like asoft hold and, and get a
(14:56):
contract.
And so I was like, we would liketo do that.
And they said, oh, when do youwanna get married?
And we were like, about a yearfrom now was September 16th of,
uh, last year.
And we were like, you know,we're looking for like September
or October, preferably,preferably a Saturday cuz we
have a bunch of people coming infrom out of state.
They started going through thecalendar.
all they had left.
The only September, October,Saturday evening they had left
(15:18):
was exactly a year later,September 16th.
And so we put our name down cuzit was the only date left and
that is our wedding date.
And it was exactly a year out.
And it's crazy how the universelines up to make stuff like that
happen.
Yes.
Oh my gosh.
Yeah.
I was like walked away with likesuch like confidence like, yep,
(15:39):
this we're done.
This is it.
Yeah.
Wow.
Oh my gosh.
I'm already.
Counting down the dates just tolike see all the photos and
everything.
I got, I'm so sorry.
Oh, it's literally the onlything I care about besides
getting married is like we have,we have, and like this is, I go
back on my word, right?
My whole thing is that I firmly,firmly believe that queer people
(16:02):
should hire as many queervendors as possible for their
wedding ex, especially frontfacing ones like your dj, like
your photographer, the peoplethat will interact with the
people.
Our DJ is a straight fifth man,who is super awesome.
I call him straight Paul, not tohis face our venue, you have to
pick from the DJs that theyhave.
(16:22):
And I was like, ah, guys.
And Paul came through, I was soworried about like, we have a
ton of queer people coming, ofvarying presentations.
And I was like, I don't wannahave to do the work to educate
our DJ on how.
use language with people.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
And so I was talking to him andI was like, Hey, like, you know,
(16:42):
if someone who has like verymasculine presentation, short
hair a suit, walks up to you andasks, you know, has something to
say to you, how do you addressthem?
And he said, how may I help you?
Hmm.
And I was like, Paul, you know,what's up?
Uh, so Paul absolutely camethrough for us.
and also like, especially withthe photography, like one of the
saddest things about the wholewedding is that I can't shoot my
(17:05):
own wedding.
And I don't wanna pay thousandsof dollars for someone to do a
less good job than I could havedone.
especially for something that Icare about so much.
Uh, and so instead of hiring aqueer photographer, I hired my
friend Kelly, who I'm obsessedwith.
and Kelly is amazing.
And Kelly took pictures of bothour, our proposals.
(17:28):
and we have very similar styles.
And I think because, you know,we've, we've collaborated in the
past.
I sort of get a little.
of leeway to not be like abridezilla, but like have more
creative control than a bridenormally would.
with their photographer whereI'm like, I want this and this
and this.
and it's gonna be so hard not tobe like, can I see the back of
(17:51):
your camera?
Did it turn out good?
Can I see them because I wannahave control over that.
and then we, we are flying in,uh, Rachel Rego, who is amazing.
They are a, uh, queer and, uh, Ithink they're a non-binary or
trans, I don't know.
Rachel's amazing, uh, uh,videographer based in Muni,
(18:13):
Indiana.
They actually recently moved to,uh, Chicago and they were
literally like the one of twoqueer videographers I found in.
I'm sure there's more, but theydon't lead with their identity,
and that was really important tome.
especially hiring someone that Idon't know, like I feel
confident hiring Kelly cause Iknow her.
(18:35):
Mm-hmm.
but like, especially forvideography, I was like, uh, and
Rachel's amazing.
Rachel's literally flying out todo this for us, and I'm so
excited.
I'm so excited.
It's gonna be great.
but yeah, our hair and makeupartist, uh, Kim Baker is
amazing.
She's queer.
Uh, we have, we have a lot ofreally awesome people on our
team and it's gonna be really,really, really cool.
(18:58):
I'm super.
Yes.
Oh my gosh.
Feel like that'd be actuallykind of like a fun, like group
photo.
Like just getting all the likequeer vendors together's.
Like, Hey I'll have to put thaton our list.
Be like if you're, if you're oneof our vendors, come take a
picture.
Yeah.
And straight call in the middlebeing like, yeah.
(19:20):
Yeah.
I mean, so I think you'vealready like touched on, you
know, quite a bit of it, butlike how has your experience
been?
outside, outside of your venueand kind of how, like you
navigated that as a queerindividual who's engaged?
Yeah.
just all the pree emailing andpre-call that even sometimes
(19:43):
doesn't even work.
Uh, we had, we, we went to, weended up going to four different
bridal salons and didn't feelcomfortable until the fourth
one, even though we had preemailed pre-call.
We're two women looking people.
We are engaged.
We are getting married, we aregoing to shop together.
(20:05):
We wanna see each other'sdresses.
Cuz here's the thing, and peopledon't think about this.
There's a billion shades ofwhite and any bridal gown on its
own will look white But if youhave two wedding dresses next to
each other that are differentshades of white, in the case of
having two brides or two peoplewearing wedding dresses,
(20:25):
whichever shade of white isdarker, that dress will look
like it has been in an attic for5,000 years.
or like it, you did a, a mud runand didn't quite clean it.
Right?
And so it's very important to usthat not only the colors
matched, but that, They gotogether, you know, like they,
(20:46):
they need to be sort of the samevibe but be different.
and so I would explain that toevery place and they'd be like,
oh my God.
Literally not a problem.
You don't even need to ask that.
The first place we went, which Iwas so excited cuz it was the
place I got both my prom dressesin high school.
I was like, this is gonna befull circle, it's gonna be
amazing.
Our, uh, I had actually alreadybeen there by myself just to
(21:08):
like look around so they knewwho we.
like very much knew who we were.
And the stylist came to get usand she was like, all right, so
I heard you guys are shoppingtogether.
And we were like, yes, good.
And she goes, okay, so whosewedding is first?
Uh, you can try on dressesfirst.
And I was like, what?
(21:28):
No, they're, it's the same dayand she goes, oh, and that's why
you're shopping together cuz youcan't go to each other's
weddings.
And we went, no, it's the samewedding.
And she goes, oh, it's a doublewedding.
And I was like, who does double?
Like really you went to doublewedding even though.
in our file.
I asked for them to write down,we are getting married to each
(21:51):
other so this exact thingdoesn't happen.
And like, and she was like, oh,your sisters, oh you're friends.
Like literally every otherthing.
And I was like, we arehomosexuals getting married to
each other and we wanna episode,you know?
And she went, oh well then youcan't shop together.
You can't see each other'sdresses.
And I was like, ah.
What a great start to theappointment.
it was infuriating and, and likeI had literally done so much
(22:17):
work so that that didn't happen.
Uh, and, and I think a lot of,uh, like a couple of the other
places we went, uh, all theentire staff was women over the
age of 50 who really just didn'tget what was going on.
and it was just like super,super frustrating.
And I actually had, uh, a queer.
(22:37):
I'm not gonna say bride becausethey're non-binary, but they
were gonna wear a wedding dressand they said to me, they were
like, look, if you wanna haveyour like say yes to the dress
moment, which like, I'm thatbitch, I've seen every episode.
I was obsessed with weddings asa child, my fair wedding with
David Tooter for weddings, sayYes to the dress, that's me.
And she was like, if you wantthat as a queer person shopping
(23:00):
together, you have to go toJanine.
and they have, uh, one in SanFrancisco and one in Alameda.
Both of those are over an hourfrom us, and I was like, you
know what?
I give up.
We're gonna go.
And so we went.
We, I didn't even pre-call.
I just said in the thing, here'swho we are, here's what we're
doing.
They opened the door and theywent, my brides, and we shopped
(23:22):
together and we found ourdresses and it was, it was
really truly as if they hadnever worked with a straight
bride shopping by herself intheir life.
It was as if this was all theydid.
They only work with two bridesshopping together like there
was.
Weirdness.
There was no, uh, how do we,like, it was amazing.
(23:46):
And obviously we found ourdresses like it was fantastic,
but like we shouldn't have hadto shop for six months at four
places pre-call and emailing,trying to figure out what the
fuck was going on.
so that was really annoying, butit turned out, yeah.
Yes, thank goodness.
And I mean, wow.
I feel like we live in the SanFrancisco fucking Bay area.
(24:07):
Yeah.
This is one of the most liberalliberal areas in the.
Yeah.
And if it's that hard for ushere, imagine if you're in the
Midwest, if you are in theSouth, especially with all the
shit going on with like laws andanti-trans shit.
Like if, if it's hard for ushere, I cannot even imagine how
(24:27):
hard it is somewhere else.
Yep.
Yeah.
And it's crazy too because evenjust hearing you speak on that,
it's.
if you think about it, like theshifts that those other
businesses would have to make togive you that same ex experience
are relatively small.
It's so easy and it's free andit's just like I'm trying to
(24:50):
give you my money exactly likethey are obviously like should
be good hans, good people.
and like just wanna work withyou.
But they're also like losingmoney, you know?
So like terrible business move,like, come on guys.
And even with the venues, it'slike, you are my gay dollars.
Pay your bills.
(25:10):
I would love to give youthousands of dollars.
What are you doing?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Very sad.
Yeah.
And that's, but everything elseis great.
Go ahead.
Yeah, I'd highly, highlyrecommend anyone in the Bay
Area.
if you're looking for, I mean,the first, literally the first
(25:31):
vendor we booked was ourcoordinators.
They're a lesbian couple.
it's events by Gs, like theletters.
they are amazing.
And I, I shouted from therooftops, they are worth every
freaking penny because theywill, make sure that shit is
like, not just queer friendly,but like queer empowering, where
(25:52):
like if they're recommending avendor, they've done the dirty
work to like ask those annoyingquestions and like vouch for
them.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
many times they've actuallyalready worked with them with
queer couples, so it's likethat's what they specialize in.
And like anyone that theyrecommend, I don't even worry
about it because I feel supersafe about it.
Mm-hmm.
So, mm-hmm.
So highly, highly recommend, ifyou're a queer couple getting
(26:13):
married in the Bay Area eventsby g.
Lucian and Mei are the real MVPsof this wedding.
Like they're so cool, they'reamazing.
They just take so much of it offour plate.
And so all we have to do is justbe like, oh yes, we want that.
No, we don't want that.
Can we do this?
Yes.
Great.
Moving on.
That's so fantastic cuz I thinklike hearing you frame it that
(26:36):
way is like, A really cool tipto share with couples because
like in my mind sometimes, youknow, obviously as a vendor, I
kind of struggle to find thatline of like, what do I do on
behalf of my clients?
You know?
Yeah.
In terms of like if there'ssomething uncomfortable
happening, you know, beforetheir wedding or even like on
(26:58):
their wedding day, like how muchof that falls on me or like on
them, whereas like hearing yousay, There's people who like,
yeah, it might suck for them tolike potentially encounter
someone that's like homophobic,but, but that is your job and
they're equipped to do that for,and they're also being to do it,
right?
Like they're more removed fromthe situation than you yourself
(27:21):
having to be like, hi.
like, I'm queer, will you workwith me?
And like face that rejectionversus them.
Yeah.
Like that's such a great tip.
I love that.
And and they can literally go inand be like, hi, this is the
exact situation.
We have two femme people, awoman and a non-binary person.
They are getting married.
They're both wearing dresses,they're both using the term
bread.
We're looking for this and thisand this.
(27:41):
Can you do it or not?
If you have any questions, it'sa no.
Yeah.
Great.
Good.
Okay, moving on.
like, and that is so powerful,just knowing.
again, anyone they recommend,anyone that you know, they've
personally worked with like, andit's so hard.
as a bride or anyone gettingmarried, there's a million
(28:01):
vendors at a million differentprice points.
And also all of social mediayelling at you of like, if you
don't have ice sculptures atyour reception of your faces,
your wedding is shit.
If you don't pay for everyone togo to Bora Bora for six months,
your wedding is shit like, it'sobnoxious and it's, and it's so
overwhelming and you're like, Idon't even know.
(28:22):
Start cuz there's so much outthere.
And so having coordinators whoare not just day of
coordinators, like they're withus the entire time, who can lead
you through it and help you wadethrough the muck and find the
actual things that are gonnaserve you best, means that by
the end of it, and like I try todo this for my clients too, but
like by the end of it, you don'tfind out about something that
(28:44):
you wish you had done and justdidn't know about.
Hmm mm-hmm.
you know?
Yeah.
It's my fir It's my firstwedding.
It is also my only wedding.
Like, I don't know what I'mdoing, but like, I mean, not
literally cuz I shoot weddings,but like, as a, you know, person
getting married.
Yeah.
And so the really leaning onyour vendors who have dozens or
hundreds of weddings behindthem.
(29:04):
They also have dozens orhundreds of weddings.
Tips and things going verypoorly that you learn from, and
so you now have as the peoplegetting married, hundreds of
weddings of knowledge behind youfrom your vendors.
So I highly encourage anyone,queer or not.
If you're getting married,really lean on your vendors and,
(29:27):
and ask them your questionseven, even if it has nothing to
do with what they do.
like, ask your photographer ifthey know any florists.
Ask your, you know, venue if, Imean, a lot of venues have
recommended vendors that they'veworked with before and be like,
here's exactly what we'relooking for.
Do you know someone who doesthis?
So you're not blindly googlingthings, hoping that you can find
(29:50):
something that's close to whatyou want.
These people know what they'redoing.
They've been doing this foryears.
Lean on them.
Mm-hmm.
because they.
they got more knowledge thanyou're ever gonna have.
For real.
Yeah.
Yeah.
that's so great.
And you've already like, sharedso much knowledge with us, I
(30:13):
love to info dp about weddings.
Yeah, no, that's great.
Like, yeah.
I'm just curious if like for theother queer couples who are
listening mm-hmm.
like do you have anything elsethat feels really important or
helpful to share with them?
Ooh.
I just wanna empower you to dowhatever the fuck you want.
(30:34):
and that goes for straight ciscouples too.
but for queer people, so many ofthe traditions just don't apply.
Like, you know, the whole, thewhole giving the bride away,
it's a transfer of power fromfather to husband.
If there's no husband, then howdo you, you flip a coin to
(30:54):
figure out who's gonna be thedude like, you know, there's,
there's.
There's so much that justdoesn't even work, right?
And so I just wanna like reallygive you full permission to
throw away all of it.
And then.
Just keep whatever little bitsare genuinely meaningful to you
and create new traditions, anddon't be afraid to do things
(31:15):
that you've literally never seenbefore.
I, I shot an elopement, uh, latelast year that they, uh, they
had a, you know, a.
Real quote unquote receptionwith everybody at the end.
But in the morning they went totheir family's beach house with
just the two of them, theirsiblings and their siblings,
spouses, no one else.
And me and everyone was wearinglike matching set sweatsuits,
(31:39):
like ev the whole, everyone elsewas in Navy.
And then the two, the, thecouple were in like, sort of
like a wine red, just likelittle sweatshirts and
sweatpants.
Cause it was cold.
It was December.
and they had created a thresholdcrossing the ceremony.
They found driftwood on thebeach, made a little threshold.
They had elements of like allfour elements, you know, fire,
(32:01):
air, earth, water.
and they had built a ceremonywith, uh, like the aloha
greeting chant, the mantra, likedifferent bits.
Their cultures and theirbackgrounds and what was
meaningful to them as a couple.
And essentially wrote the entirething from scratch.
And everyone just like sat on,you know, towels on the beach
(32:25):
and they all, they criedtogether.
They prayed together, they justlike hung out.
And then at the end, they jpedover the driftwood and became
married.
Mm-hmm.
And then they stripped to theirunderwear and ran into the.
like you can do that.
Mm-hmm.
(32:45):
that's allowed.
Mm-hmm.
And they chose those things, notbecause they had seen them
before on Pinterest or, youknow, oh, inspiration board.
Like, and that's so valid.
Do that too, if you want.
But they picked those thingsbecause as a couple, they are
very spiritual around the fourelements.
The ocean is very important tothem.
Mm-hmm.
And so they sort of reallystarted from scratch and built a
(33:08):
ceremony that was unique to themand also every single element of
it was completely meaningful tothem.
And they weren't doing a singlething because they thought they
had to mm-hmm.
and, and you're allowed to dothat.
And so, you know, you don't evenhave.
Have the representation ofsomeone else having done it
before you, you can literallyjust make shit up.
(33:32):
If it's meaningful to you, itwill work.
And the people who are there toyou know, who love you
unconditionally and support you,will back you up and be like,
that's the coolest thing.
Like they came out of the oceanafter and everyone was like,
yeah, like just hearing forthem.
And that was it.
Like that was the wedding and,and it.
(33:52):
honestly, so much moremeaningful watching it.
Mm-hmm.
than any like the man and thewoman, blah, blah, blah.
Like very like you don't evenwrite your own vows, like very,
you know, we're doing thetemplate.
customize that shit cuz it'sabout the two of you.
It's not about doing a weddingthe way a wedding should be
(34:13):
done.
Cuz that's what does that evenmean?
Yeah.
Well it's your money.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Like, oh gosh, hearing you sharethat story, like I was getting
like goosebps.
Like that's so, that's sopowerful cuz like you just had
so much of like who you are inthe creation of that.
(34:35):
Yeah.
And like, I mean, and thejoining of the two of you
shouldn't, it, shouldn't everysingle piece of it represent
whom you.
right?
Yeah.
So if, if the traditions workfor you, if you, you know, if
you wanna do your classic vowsthat everyone else has done, if
that's meaningful to you, do it.
I'm not knocking that.
But do it because it'smeaningful to you, not because
(34:57):
that's the template, right?
Exactly.
Yeah.
Do you have anything like thatfor your own wedding?
Yeah, we're doing, It's a littlebit more traditional route.
Uh, no running into the oceanfor us.
Uh, but we, uh, Ali is Jewishand I'm, whatever the fuck this
is.
I'm not really religious at all,but, uh, we're doing various
(35:19):
Jewish elements.
So we're doing a Katuba, whichis the marriage contract.
Mm-hmm.
We're stepping on the glasswe're doing a modernized version
of the Seven Blessings.
traditionally the woman.
Walks seven circles around theman because he's like the head
of the household and she'sbuilding the house around him.
and that doesn't super apply tous and also doesn't feel super
(35:41):
modern.
So, uh, a very common way toupdate that for even straight
couples who just wanna be moremodern or uh, queer couples is
you each do three circles aroundthe other person and then you do
a little dossy dough as theseventh circle.
So it feels a lot more, even,uh, and we are dancing in the
horror and so we're doing, youknow, we're doing a lot of
Jewish elements.
(36:02):
But we're also gonna do a handfasting, which, which I, I
found, I was looking at sort oflike, not necessarily strictly
pagan, but like sort ofnon-religious things.
And that came up and I was like,Oh, I, that, it, it immediately
like my heart, I knew that thatwas something that was gonna be
really meaningful to me.
(36:22):
so we'll be doing that.
and for people that don't evenknow, uh, you like, do you, you
hold hands one hand in one handand you do different, like
passing over of different colorsof ribbons that represent
different things.
And then at the end you pull andyou Yes, it is folks, you tie
the knot, that's where thatphrase comes from.
And then you get to like havethat, you get to have the
(36:42):
literal.
Not that you tied.
So we're gonna be doing that.
Uh, we, a lot of weddings havephoto booths, which I think is
super fun.
Uh, I wanted to level that upbecause as a photographer, I
think I want better than that.
Uh, we are renting a, likeliving room chaise.
Set from our venue with likerugs and like little side
(37:05):
tables.
And we are going to set up, uh,like wind up little cheapo film
cameras and people can do like areal photo shoot at our wedding,
which is gonna be super fun.
We're gonna have, uh, We'regonna have a little cake for
just the two of us, but everyoneelse, uh, and also us, uh, is
gonna get little s'mores kitsand we're gonna have a bonfire.
we're gonna have like, just lotsof different things.
(37:27):
Uh, we have, we have kids comingto our wedding, which I know is
polarizing.
they're all angels, very selectchildren are allowed.
We're gonna have like coloringpages and activities for them
where it'll be two brides withlike very simple dresses.
and you get to design thewedding dress or like, here's a
five tier cake drawing.
You decorate the wedding cake.
(37:49):
we just wanna, again, have itfeel more like a family reunion
than a wedding.
and, and, Have activities beyondjust like, let's get drunken
dance.
Uh, cause that's not super ourstyle and it's gonna be really
fun.
I'm excited and like, you know,for my bachelorette, like, I'm
gonna take my, my wedding partyto the boardwalk, like a theme
(38:10):
park like, where's gonna go?
Because it's like, I don't.
I don't, what do you do with,with Vegas and penis straws when
you're mostly sober and gay?
Like, you know, you know, yeah,yeah.
And they're perfect for somepeople.
Again, I'm not knocking it, it'sjust like, that sounds like
trash for me.
Yeah.
So I'm not gonna do that.
(38:31):
but it's gonna be really funand, and again, very unique to
us.
I think people are gonna comeand be like, oh, that's Ali and
Johnny.
That's, that makes this makesperfect sense.
Yeah.
Which is probably like thehighest compliment you could
get.
Right?
For sure.
And that's, that's the goal,right?
Is like we want it to berepresentative of us because
it's about us.
(38:52):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Well, oh my gosh, I'm soexcited.
I like can't wait to hear allabout it and it almost makes me
feel like we could do like awhole other episode after the
fact, you know?
Just because Sure.
I feel like it'll be such a.
You know, experience for youactually like living that day.
(39:13):
Like Yeah.
And, and what went well, whatwent well and what went wrong.
Cuz there's obviously gonna bethings that go wrong and, and I
would love to do that.
So I'll, I'll see you in a yearand we'll talk Yeah.
or even dinner actually it'sterrifying where the 16th of
this month will be six monthsout, which is, yeah, I was just
gonna say wild.
(39:35):
And then are you two like doingany.
Post traveling celebration.
We are just trying to getthrough the wedding.
Okay.
we, we wouldn't be doinganything right away.
Allie's, uh, teacher and so shedoesn't wanna like miss a ton of
school, but she kind of getspretty, you know, she does like
the, the smer, uh, camp programat her school in the smer, but
(39:58):
that's a lot easier to take timeoff of than like, we're doing
curricul.
This is a school year.
Uh, so we would probably dosomething.
Like next smer, not this comingsmer.
but this smer we're going backto Greece.
So we're gonna have like kind ofa pre-wet bef before moon.
(40:18):
which it's gonna be super fun,but it, one thing that is
stressing me out is like, we gotreally severe tan lines when we
went last smer that lasted untilHalloween.
Uh, and so I have to, A bunchof, like, we have to get
strapless swimsuits, we have toget strapless like we to get
tube tops like we have to, cuzthere's just, it's gonna be
(40:42):
heinous with our dresses.
So we have to find a bunch of,uh, strapless things so that we
can, uh, get tan withoutgetting, uh, lines all over our
bodies that are gonna be therein September.
But that'll be fun.
We're very excited.
We love Greece.
That is very exciting.
But also I would be stressedabout that.
(41:03):
I don't, I don't handlestrapless super well, so good
luck.
No, exactly.
I'm like, we don't have liketeeny tiny boobs.
Like we have to find, I've, I'vealready started research Cause
you gotta find good ones.
Mm-hmm.
So like, we're gonna be likesnorkeling and shit.
Like I want straps, but I alsodon't want tan lines at my.
So here we are.
(41:24):
Yeah.
Well, thank you so much for, forsharing like part of your story
and for sharing all of thoseamazing tips.
I feel like it's so.
Yeah.
It's just so refreshing.
And also a little bit rare tolike talk to someone who's in
your position.
You know, like could probablywalk down the street and find
(41:45):
like a straight bride and belike, oh, you know, weddings.
But like having theseconversations that include, you
know, queer people gettingmarried is super important.
So thank you so much.
Of course.
Can I make one last Recomme.
Yes.
I had this TikTok go viral, thatI highly, highly recommend if it
works for your venue.
(42:07):
I highly recommend having yourphotographer run up to where
your efficient is when, whenthey pronounce you tell the
efficient ahead of time so theymove.
I've had to hip check efficientbefore, and have your
photographer.
Take a picture of your firstkiss in reverse.
So from where you're efficientis standing so that everyone is
cheering behind you.
(42:28):
there's gonna be a millionpictures of you kissing on your
big day.
There's not really anything thatmakes that particular kiss
picture special cuz it's justyou up there and like, you know,
it's a first kiss, but itdoesn't.
It doesn't, it's not obvious byhaving your photographer go
stand where your efficient is.
Like you get that moment oflike, this is the moment we got
married.
and that's really special.
(42:49):
So you need a little bit of roombehind where your E is standing.
as people in the commentscontinuously love to tell me,
this would never happen in achurch.
Thank God I don't get hired forchurch weddings.
but if it works for your, if itworks for your venue, I highly,
highly recommend it.
A lot of people don't thinkabout that.
and just getting that picture,uh, that's gonna make it a
million times more meaningful.
(43:10):
for everyone that commented,like, Jessica, we never working
in a church, there were 30people commenting.
We did this and this was ourfavorite picture of our entire
day.
Mm-hmm.
So highly, highly, highlyrecommend, uh, and plan that
with your e ahead of time sothat they know, oh, I'm sorry, O
officiant.
People yelled at me for how Ipronounce that too.
It's fine.
People on the internet love toyell at people.
(43:31):
I don't really give a shit.
Uh, but yeah, I highly recommendgetting that picture.
We're gonna do it.
It's gonna be beautiful.
You want shit that you wannaframe and put on your wall three
feet tall, you know?
Right.
No, I love that.
Yeah.
And speaking of, you can findJenny on Instagram and TikTok at
Jenny Chapman Photography.
Okay.
Yes.
It'll be linked in the shownotes.
(43:52):
So go say hello and you can kindof see what they're talking
about.
Yeah.
My, uh, on TikTok, it's pinned.
And don't be mad at me that Ididn't do examples.
I did one with examples.
It's also pinned.
Stop commenting, yelling at me.
Thank you.
Oh, you're amazing.
Thank you for having me.
This was super, super.
(44:13):
Yes, of course.
Clearly beloved, thank you forjoining us this week and we'll
see you right back here nextweek.
Bye.
clearly Beloved, welcome back tothis week's episode.
(00:03):
This week I am chatting withJenny Chapman of Jenny Chapman
Photography, and I'm so excitedbecause I was actually on
Jenny's podcast, I don't know,maybe like a couple months ago.
It was quite a while ago.
and now we're finally gettingto, you know, kind of change,
return the favor.
(00:24):
Yeah.
So thanks so much for beinghere.
I would love if you couldintroduce yourself and your
pronouns and any.
important identities.
Beautiful.
Love it.
Hi everyone.
My name is Jenny.
My pronouns are she, theyinterchangeably do whatever you
like.
Those, both of those are fine.
Just don't call me he him.
and I identify as queer and Iidentify as non-binary.
(00:50):
Love it.
Yay.
Thank you again for being here.
Of course.
well, I of course like have somequestions that I'd love to chat
with you about, but also.
we have connected, like throughthe photography world and yeah,
I think that's super important.
So tell us a little bit aboutwhat you do.
Yeah.
I am a creative portrait andwedding photographer based in
(01:13):
the San Francisco Bay area.
I, Do a lot of different things.
I take pictures, uh, forweddings and elopement and
couples and individuals andfamilies, like kind of
everything.
But the overarching theme foreverything is that, you know,
you deserve to have like a superfun photo shoot experience where
you feel gorgeous and likegenuinely you.
(01:34):
And I think there's a lot ofpeople that come to me being
like, oh, everyone in yourpictures look so amazing and
like, we wanna hire you, butlike, we're not gonna look like
that cuz we're awkward and uninfo.
And, and that's so valid.
But I firmly believe that beingphotogenic can be taught and you
just have to be guided.
Right?
And so, you know, I, I, youknow, oh, you know, look at my
(01:54):
photos.
Who do you think is aprofessional model?
Well, they came to me too,saying that they were awkward
and un photogenic.
So it's all about.
you know, this start to finishexperience regardless of what
kind of photographer you'rehiring me for.
Where you feel in control, youfeel confident.
You get all the tools likestyling, guidance, and posing
and everything, so that by thetime you get in front of my
(02:14):
camera, you're very excited andyou don't feel nervous, and we
just got to have a great timebecause if you're having a great
time, the photos will go from.
they're good photos.
I know how to take photos tosomething that is really, really
meaningful to you and, andsomething that is a really
authentic representation of whoyou are, that you are gonna
treasure for a really long time.
That's what I love to do.
(02:35):
And obviously like as a queerperson, I love, uh, working with
queer people.
I've done like top surgeryphotos I've done, I have the,
the Queer Soul Project, which isa thing I do.
Uh, telling stories, uh, thestories of queer people through
photos and through my podcast,which I hope to one day turn
into a book.
(02:55):
Hey, that's all I didn't knowthat Yeah.
Yeah.
Once I get enough people, Iwanna, I wanna get
representation and publish it asa book with like all the photos
and everyone's story, and thenlittle q.
Scan things for, each of theepisodes.
I just think it's so important,to have really diverse
intersectional representation.
because when you see someonelike I came out so late, because
(03:19):
I didn't really see any very,you know, I'm not super, super
feminine, but like I'm not butchand, and I didn't really see a
lot of fem lesbians or, uh, emnon-binary people.
And so I didn't think, like Iimmediately ruled out being.
because I didn't want to looklike a butch lesbian.
That's not how I feelcomfortable in myself.
(03:39):
and it wasn't until I startedseeing that representation that,
you know, their lived experiencegave me permission to do it
myself.
And I think there's so manycorners of the beautiful, varied
queer community that, you know,we don't see any of, you know,
like name, a name, a queerperson with a limb.
name, a two-spirit person, namea, a queer person who uses a
(04:03):
wheelchair, like I don't, I'msure they're out there, but like
if you're like that, if that'show you identify and that's how
you live.
If you're not seeing that, ifyou're not seeing someone be
successful and in love and happywho looks and lives and loves
like you, it's very easy toconvince yourself that those
things aren't possible for you.
(04:24):
So that's what I'm trying tolike undo a little bit and.
get that representation outthere.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Oh, that's beautiful.
And that, yeah, that was kinda,thank you.
Like a follow up question I hadtoo is like when you started
your business, like has itsince?
kind of shifted more towardslike the queer space or have you
always kind of lived in thatspace for business?
(04:48):
I have been a photographer for10 years, which is wild.
I mean, I started right at theend of high school, and, and I
didn't come out until I was 21,so it was absolutely not.
What it was in the beginning.
I actually started in the actorheadshot space, and shooting
shows, for archival and like,uh, promotional purposes.
(05:12):
I, I have been doing theatersince I was very, very little.
I have a degree in musicaltheater, so I know all the
actors, the clienteles built in,and, uh, actor headshots are
different.
It's a different beast than likeLinkedIn photos or even branding
photos for like a photographerbecause.
in a picture.
When you go to like an audition,often they see your headshot
(05:35):
before they meet you.
And in that headshot you need toshow them that you are right for
the show they're trying to castand what you're like as a han
being.
Because when they see hundredsand hundreds of people and then
they lay out all the headshots,try to figure out who they're
gonna call back and cast.
Just your photo has to representyour authentic energy and the
(05:58):
character energy.
That they will remember you andgo, oh my God, we have to have
that person.
So it's very, very specificallystrategic and coming at that
from an actor perspective,myself, who had been really
helpful.
I still do that a little bit,but, that's definitely not my
main thing anymore.
Uh, it doesn't feel as ascreative as the work I wanna be
(06:18):
doing.
but I just, I still do it some,but that's where I started.
I really, you know, I would goto, uh, I don't know if people
know how shows work.
Uh, like the week before youstart performances is the
really, most of the time, thefirst week you actually are
performing on the stage at all.
Usually you're in like arehearsal room and that week
that you're in the theater forthe first time, you start
incorporating costes and bitesand microphones and the
(06:42):
orchestra and like all the stuffand, uh, the very.
Rehearsal that you do, where yourun through the show with
absolutely everything as ifthere's an audience there, it's
your last chance to practice.
Uh, they will often have aphotographer there taking
pictures of the show as ithappens.
cuz they're not gonna interruptany audience members.
There aren't any, uh, and theyuse those photos to promote the
(07:03):
show.
And so I was doing that a lot,which is so, so fun.
It's a lot like shootingweddings actually.
because things happen veryquickly and once they happen,
they're gone.
So like if you don't, if you'renot on top of your shit, you
don't know that the first kissis coming, you can miss it.
If you don't, you know, ifyou're not actively looking for
moments, you're gonna miss'em.
(07:24):
and, and so I, I found myselfsort of uniquely trained to do
weddings before I even starteddoing weddings.
because there's so manyparallels of like, this is a
real thing happening in themoment.
You have one shot go.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I love, I love that connectionyou made between like shows and
(07:47):
weddings.
I think that's super interestingand something I never would've
thought about.
Speaking of weddings, I hearthat someone's engaged, which is
not like new information.
It's such old information thateveryone in our lives has assed
that we're already married.
Like, like we've been engagedfor almost two years and, and
(08:09):
everyone's like, oh, you'remarried now, hon.
I'm like, literally no.
Nope.
Dang September.
That's so weird.
I didn't, I didn.
I knew you had been engaged fora while.
I didn't know it was almost twoyears.
Yeah.
Understand you saying.
Yeah.
We got engaged, uh, June, June,2021.
(08:29):
and, and there was such abacklog of people getting
married cuz of the pandemic.
And we knew we wanted, uh, likelate smer, early fall wedding.
So obviously it wasn't gonna belate smer, early fall 2021
cause.
a couple months later.
and then with the backlog, we, Imean, venues were booking out
(08:52):
two years, so we wasn't gonna belate smer, early, early fall
2022.
So here we are.
Yeah, no, that makes sense.
And uh, I mean, obviously assomeone in the industry, you're
like, no, that it.
it takes a minute to planthings, and you're also probably
looking for specific things, sothat Totally, and we're, we're
(09:13):
doing a lot of, uh,non-traditional things.
And so it's been, uh,interesting finding like a
caterer that is willing to dobreakfast for dinner for 50
people on a Saturday because youcould make a ton more money
making 200 steaks for a Saturdaynight wedding.
And, and so finding someonethat's willing to do something.
(09:34):
a little bit less fancy forfewer people, is like not a
great business move for them,but that's what we want.
And so it's like, you know, it'sbeen an interesting tr we did
find someone, they're amazing.
but it's definitely been aprocess and, and I don't mind
that we've been engaged for solong because we really got to
just like spend a year beingengaged and showing off our
rings and having a nice time andnot even thinking about it and
(09:56):
then jping in.
And so we really haven't feltsuper stressed about wedding
planning, just.
We have time and we're doingthings with time to spare and
it's all right.
I think there's gonna be thatmad rush at the end, but it's
all just sort of happening.
It's, it's chucking along.
Also, we're not doing anythinglike crazy fancy like it, we
(10:16):
wanna treat it like a chosenfamily, family reunion that
happens to have a wedding at theend.
So it's gonna be, it's gonna besuper fun and, and chill and a
good time.
Yeah.
Aw, yeah.
That's super great to hear thatlike everything has been pretty
relaxed.
Yeah.
yeah.
I feel like more people shouldtake that approach cuz Yeah.
(10:38):
You wanna like, enjoy it versusbeing like, I can't even
remember that time of my lifecuz we were just like running
around and Oh, yeah.
Gross.
No, I mean the only things that,that were stressful were like,
we found.
Lost two venues before we foundthe one that we wanted that
actually worked out.
the first one that, Found andloved.
(11:00):
I will name drop, uh, Los LoisLodging Carmel.
they were listed on the Knot asbeing a queer friendly venue.
We talked to the owners.
They were like, come down, we'lldo a tour.
It'll be great.
Uh, within five minutes of usbeing there, uh, on our private
tour, they knew who we were.
Uh, they asked us if we weresisters, and I was like, that's
weird to ask.
(11:20):
A couple touring a weddingvenue.
And then, uh, they have, theyhave very, uh, gendered getting
ready areas.
So the groom getting ready areais very like, not well lit.
There's a PS four, whatever.
but it's okay.
Our get our, uh, our weddingparty is pretty small and we
wanna get ready together.
And I told them that I was like,your, you know, bridal getting
(11:41):
ready area is huge.
We're fine.
And.
They were like, oh my God, youcan't get ready together.
Like you can't see each otherbefore the wedding.
And I was like, uh, actually wecan.
And uh, we're just not gettingdressed together, we're just
gonna like, we'll do a firstlook with just putting on the
outfits.
And the owner literally went,oh, thank God at least you're
doing that.
(12:01):
And I was like, okay.
And despite those red flags, wewere like, you know what?
Send us a contract.
We love the venue.
It's not like they're gonna bereally involved in our day.
Like, as a business owner, likeI love contracts.
I love a contract because I knowwhat I can expect from you, you
know, what you can expect fromme.
Contracts are amazing.
This sad excuse for a docent,uh, I actually ended up having a
(12:26):
list of, I started, you know,writing down my questions.
My list of questions was longerthan the contract, and they had,
it was like, you know, uh,you're the, the venue cost is
this much and it includes table.
chairs.
And I'm like, okay, so legallyyou're gonna provide me two
tables and two chairs, and thenmake me pay an upgrade.
Like what does this mean?
(12:47):
And they had a music policy thatwas like, no rapper hip hop
period.
And I was like, I'm a littlewhite lady.
and my racism bell is dinging.
So like, and so I just followedup with'em.
I was like, Hey, like I'm surethis wasn't your intention, but
like this comes off a littleracist.
And like I got screamed at viaemail for accusing them of being
(13:09):
racist.
And they were like, it's abouthaving bad words.
Our neighbors don't wanna hearbad words.
And I was like, cool.
So the term for that isexplicit.
Like there's plenty of othergenres of.
like, I can tell you're coveringyour ass.
This is not what this was.
so we dropped them.
We, we ghosted them for goodreason.
And I will tell everyone far andwide not to hire them.
(13:30):
It was a mess.
we found a second venue that weloved, we were obsessed with.
but even cutting every singlecorner we could far beyond what
we were comfortable with.
Budget wise, we were still about$10,000.
To pay for it.
So that fell through, which wasdevastating, but you know, it's
(13:53):
fine.
Uh, but we, this is like fullcircle moment.
The very first venue I evenlooked up on the internet.
ended up being our venue and wedidn't tour with them initially
because our initial plan washaving everyone stay on site for
the full weekend, like, youknow, like cabins or whatever.
(14:15):
And this venue doesn't havethat.
And so I immediately mixed it.
I was like, it's perfect exceptfor it doesn't have this.
Mm-hmm.
And so once we gave up the ideaof uh, having people stay on
site cuz that wasn't available,that doesn't exist in California
in our budget, I went back to itand I was.
This is perfect except for thething that we just gave up and
so we went and toured.
(14:36):
It's perfect.
It's Saratoga Springs inSaratoga, California.
It's amazing.
and.
We did like a group tour andthen we were about to leave and
I realized I had a question.
So we went back to ask and therewas a couple in there putting
their name on the calendar and Iwas like, oh, I didn't know we
could do that.
Like, you know, just get like asoft hold and, and get a
(14:56):
contract.
And so I was like, we would liketo do that.
And they said, oh, when do youwanna get married?
And we were like, about a yearfrom now was September 16th of,
uh, last year.
And we were like, you know,we're looking for like September
or October, preferably,preferably a Saturday cuz we
have a bunch of people coming infrom out of state.
They started going through thecalendar.
all they had left.
The only September, October,Saturday evening they had left
(15:18):
was exactly a year later,September 16th.
And so we put our name down cuzit was the only date left and
that is our wedding date.
And it was exactly a year out.
And it's crazy how the universelines up to make stuff like that
happen.
Yes.
Oh my gosh.
Yeah.
I was like walked away with likesuch like confidence like, yep,
(15:39):
this we're done.
This is it.
Yeah.
Wow.
Oh my gosh.
I'm already.
Counting down the dates just tolike see all the photos and
everything.
I got, I'm so sorry.
Oh, it's literally the onlything I care about besides
getting married is like we have,we have, and like this is, I go
back on my word, right?
My whole thing is that I firmly,firmly believe that queer people
(16:02):
should hire as many queervendors as possible for their
wedding ex, especially frontfacing ones like your dj, like
your photographer, the peoplethat will interact with the
people.
Our DJ is a straight fifth man,who is super awesome.
I call him straight Paul, not tohis face our venue, you have to
pick from the DJs that theyhave.
(16:22):
And I was like, ah, guys.
And Paul came through, I was soworried about like, we have a
ton of queer people coming, ofvarying presentations.
And I was like, I don't wannahave to do the work to educate
our DJ on how.
use language with people.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
And so I was talking to him andI was like, Hey, like, you know,
(16:42):
if someone who has like verymasculine presentation, short
hair a suit, walks up to you andasks, you know, has something to
say to you, how do you addressthem?
And he said, how may I help you?
Hmm.
And I was like, Paul, you know,what's up?
Uh, so Paul absolutely camethrough for us.
and also like, especially withthe photography, like one of the
saddest things about the wholewedding is that I can't shoot my
(17:05):
own wedding.
And I don't wanna pay thousandsof dollars for someone to do a
less good job than I could havedone.
especially for something that Icare about so much.
Uh, and so instead of hiring aqueer photographer, I hired my
friend Kelly, who I'm obsessedwith.
and Kelly is amazing.
And Kelly took pictures of bothour, our proposals.
(17:28):
and we have very similar styles.
And I think because, you know,we've, we've collaborated in the
past.
I sort of get a little.
of leeway to not be like abridezilla, but like have more
creative control than a bridenormally would.
with their photographer whereI'm like, I want this and this
and this.
and it's gonna be so hard not tobe like, can I see the back of
(17:51):
your camera?
Did it turn out good?
Can I see them because I wannahave control over that.
and then we, we are flying in,uh, Rachel Rego, who is amazing.
They are a, uh, queer and, uh, Ithink they're a non-binary or
trans, I don't know.
Rachel's amazing, uh, uh,videographer based in Muni,
(18:13):
Indiana.
They actually recently moved to,uh, Chicago and they were
literally like the one of twoqueer videographers I found in.
I'm sure there's more, but theydon't lead with their identity,
and that was really important tome.
especially hiring someone that Idon't know, like I feel
confident hiring Kelly cause Iknow her.
(18:35):
Mm-hmm.
but like, especially forvideography, I was like, uh, and
Rachel's amazing.
Rachel's literally flying out todo this for us, and I'm so
excited.
I'm so excited.
It's gonna be great.
but yeah, our hair and makeupartist, uh, Kim Baker is
amazing.
She's queer.
Uh, we have, we have a lot ofreally awesome people on our
team and it's gonna be really,really, really cool.
(18:58):
I'm super.
Yes.
Oh my gosh.
Feel like that'd be actuallykind of like a fun, like group
photo.
Like just getting all the likequeer vendors together's.
Like, Hey I'll have to put thaton our list.
Be like if you're, if you're oneof our vendors, come take a
picture.
Yeah.
And straight call in the middlebeing like, yeah.
(19:20):
Yeah.
I mean, so I think you'vealready like touched on, you
know, quite a bit of it, butlike how has your experience
been?
outside, outside of your venueand kind of how, like you
navigated that as a queerindividual who's engaged?
Yeah.
just all the pree emailing andpre-call that even sometimes
(19:43):
doesn't even work.
Uh, we had, we, we went to, weended up going to four different
bridal salons and didn't feelcomfortable until the fourth
one, even though we had preemailed pre-call.
We're two women looking people.
We are engaged.
We are getting married, we aregoing to shop together.
(20:05):
We wanna see each other'sdresses.
Cuz here's the thing, and peopledon't think about this.
There's a billion shades ofwhite and any bridal gown on its
own will look white But if youhave two wedding dresses next to
each other that are differentshades of white, in the case of
having two brides or two peoplewearing wedding dresses,
(20:25):
whichever shade of white isdarker, that dress will look
like it has been in an attic for5,000 years.
or like it, you did a, a mud runand didn't quite clean it.
Right?
And so it's very important to usthat not only the colors
matched, but that, They gotogether, you know, like they,
(20:46):
they need to be sort of the samevibe but be different.
and so I would explain that toevery place and they'd be like,
oh my God.
Literally not a problem.
You don't even need to ask that.
The first place we went, which Iwas so excited cuz it was the
place I got both my prom dressesin high school.
I was like, this is gonna befull circle, it's gonna be
amazing.
Our, uh, I had actually alreadybeen there by myself just to
(21:08):
like look around so they knewwho we.
like very much knew who we were.
And the stylist came to get usand she was like, all right, so
I heard you guys are shoppingtogether.
And we were like, yes, good.
And she goes, okay, so whosewedding is first?
Uh, you can try on dressesfirst.
And I was like, what?
(21:28):
No, they're, it's the same dayand she goes, oh, and that's why
you're shopping together cuz youcan't go to each other's
weddings.
And we went, no, it's the samewedding.
And she goes, oh, it's a doublewedding.
And I was like, who does double?
Like really you went to doublewedding even though.
in our file.
I asked for them to write down,we are getting married to each
(21:51):
other so this exact thingdoesn't happen.
And like, and she was like, oh,your sisters, oh you're friends.
Like literally every otherthing.
And I was like, we arehomosexuals getting married to
each other and we wanna episode,you know?
And she went, oh well then youcan't shop together.
You can't see each other'sdresses.
And I was like, ah.
What a great start to theappointment.
it was infuriating and, and likeI had literally done so much
(22:17):
work so that that didn't happen.
Uh, and, and I think a lot of,uh, like a couple of the other
places we went, uh, all theentire staff was women over the
age of 50 who really just didn'tget what was going on.
and it was just like super,super frustrating.
And I actually had, uh, a queer.
(22:37):
I'm not gonna say bride becausethey're non-binary, but they
were gonna wear a wedding dressand they said to me, they were
like, look, if you wanna haveyour like say yes to the dress
moment, which like, I'm thatbitch, I've seen every episode.
I was obsessed with weddings asa child, my fair wedding with
David Tooter for weddings, sayYes to the dress, that's me.
And she was like, if you wantthat as a queer person shopping
(23:00):
together, you have to go toJanine.
and they have, uh, one in SanFrancisco and one in Alameda.
Both of those are over an hourfrom us, and I was like, you
know what?
I give up.
We're gonna go.
And so we went.
We, I didn't even pre-call.
I just said in the thing, here'swho we are, here's what we're
doing.
They opened the door and theywent, my brides, and we shopped
(23:22):
together and we found ourdresses and it was, it was
really truly as if they hadnever worked with a straight
bride shopping by herself intheir life.
It was as if this was all theydid.
They only work with two bridesshopping together like there
was.
Weirdness.
There was no, uh, how do we,like, it was amazing.
(23:46):
And obviously we found ourdresses like it was fantastic,
but like we shouldn't have hadto shop for six months at four
places pre-call and emailing,trying to figure out what the
fuck was going on.
so that was really annoying, butit turned out, yeah.
Yes, thank goodness.
And I mean, wow.
I feel like we live in the SanFrancisco fucking Bay area.
(24:07):
Yeah.
This is one of the most liberalliberal areas in the.
Yeah.
And if it's that hard for ushere, imagine if you're in the
Midwest, if you are in theSouth, especially with all the
shit going on with like laws andanti-trans shit.
Like if, if it's hard for ushere, I cannot even imagine how
(24:27):
hard it is somewhere else.
Yep.
Yeah.
And it's crazy too because evenjust hearing you speak on that,
it's.
if you think about it, like theshifts that those other
businesses would have to make togive you that same ex experience
are relatively small.
It's so easy and it's free andit's just like I'm trying to
(24:50):
give you my money exactly likethey are obviously like should
be good hans, good people.
and like just wanna work withyou.
But they're also like losingmoney, you know?
So like terrible business move,like, come on guys.
And even with the venues, it'slike, you are my gay dollars.
Pay your bills.
(25:10):
I would love to give youthousands of dollars.
What are you doing?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Very sad.
Yeah.
And that's, but everything elseis great.
Go ahead.
Yeah, I'd highly, highlyrecommend anyone in the Bay
Area.
if you're looking for, I mean,the first, literally the first
(25:31):
vendor we booked was ourcoordinators.
They're a lesbian couple.
it's events by Gs, like theletters.
they are amazing.
And I, I shouted from therooftops, they are worth every
freaking penny because theywill, make sure that shit is
like, not just queer friendly,but like queer empowering, where
(25:52):
like if they're recommending avendor, they've done the dirty
work to like ask those annoyingquestions and like vouch for
them.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
many times they've actuallyalready worked with them with
queer couples, so it's likethat's what they specialize in.
And like anyone that theyrecommend, I don't even worry
about it because I feel supersafe about it.
Mm-hmm.
So, mm-hmm.
So highly, highly recommend, ifyou're a queer couple getting
(26:13):
married in the Bay Area eventsby g.
Lucian and Mei are the real MVPsof this wedding.
Like they're so cool, they'reamazing.
They just take so much of it offour plate.
And so all we have to do is justbe like, oh yes, we want that.
No, we don't want that.
Can we do this?
Yes.
Great.
Moving on.
That's so fantastic cuz I thinklike hearing you frame it that
(26:36):
way is like, A really cool tipto share with couples because
like in my mind sometimes, youknow, obviously as a vendor, I
kind of struggle to find thatline of like, what do I do on
behalf of my clients?
You know?
Yeah.
In terms of like if there'ssomething uncomfortable
happening, you know, beforetheir wedding or even like on
(26:58):
their wedding day, like how muchof that falls on me or like on
them, whereas like hearing yousay, There's people who like,
yeah, it might suck for them tolike potentially encounter
someone that's like homophobic,but, but that is your job and
they're equipped to do that for,and they're also being to do it,
right?
Like they're more removed fromthe situation than you yourself
(27:21):
having to be like, hi.
like, I'm queer, will you workwith me?
And like face that rejectionversus them.
Yeah.
Like that's such a great tip.
I love that.
And and they can literally go inand be like, hi, this is the
exact situation.
We have two femme people, awoman and a non-binary person.
They are getting married.
They're both wearing dresses,they're both using the term
bread.
We're looking for this and thisand this.
(27:41):
Can you do it or not?
If you have any questions, it'sa no.
Yeah.
Great.
Good.
Okay, moving on.
like, and that is so powerful,just knowing.
again, anyone they recommend,anyone that you know, they've
personally worked with like, andit's so hard.
as a bride or anyone gettingmarried, there's a million
(28:01):
vendors at a million differentprice points.
And also all of social mediayelling at you of like, if you
don't have ice sculptures atyour reception of your faces,
your wedding is shit.
If you don't pay for everyone togo to Bora Bora for six months,
your wedding is shit like, it'sobnoxious and it's, and it's so
overwhelming and you're like, Idon't even know.
(28:22):
Start cuz there's so much outthere.
And so having coordinators whoare not just day of
coordinators, like they're withus the entire time, who can lead
you through it and help you wadethrough the muck and find the
actual things that are gonnaserve you best, means that by
the end of it, and like I try todo this for my clients too, but
like by the end of it, you don'tfind out about something that
(28:44):
you wish you had done and justdidn't know about.
Hmm mm-hmm.
you know?
Yeah.
It's my fir It's my firstwedding.
It is also my only wedding.
Like, I don't know what I'mdoing, but like, I mean, not
literally cuz I shoot weddings,but like, as a, you know, person
getting married.
Yeah.
And so the really leaning onyour vendors who have dozens or
hundreds of weddings behindthem.
(29:04):
They also have dozens orhundreds of weddings.
Tips and things going verypoorly that you learn from, and
so you now have as the peoplegetting married, hundreds of
weddings of knowledge behind youfrom your vendors.
So I highly encourage anyone,queer or not.
If you're getting married,really lean on your vendors and,
(29:27):
and ask them your questionseven, even if it has nothing to
do with what they do.
like, ask your photographer ifthey know any florists.
Ask your, you know, venue if, Imean, a lot of venues have
recommended vendors that they'veworked with before and be like,
here's exactly what we'relooking for.
Do you know someone who doesthis?
So you're not blindly googlingthings, hoping that you can find
(29:50):
something that's close to whatyou want.
These people know what they'redoing.
They've been doing this foryears.
Lean on them.
Mm-hmm.
because they.
they got more knowledge thanyou're ever gonna have.
For real.
Yeah.
Yeah.
that's so great.
And you've already like, sharedso much knowledge with us, I
(30:13):
love to info dp about weddings.
Yeah, no, that's great.
Like, yeah.
I'm just curious if like for theother queer couples who are
listening mm-hmm.
like do you have anything elsethat feels really important or
helpful to share with them?
Ooh.
I just wanna empower you to dowhatever the fuck you want.
(30:34):
and that goes for straight ciscouples too.
but for queer people, so many ofthe traditions just don't apply.
Like, you know, the whole, thewhole giving the bride away,
it's a transfer of power fromfather to husband.
If there's no husband, then howdo you, you flip a coin to
(30:54):
figure out who's gonna be thedude like, you know, there's,
there's.
There's so much that justdoesn't even work, right?
And so I just wanna like reallygive you full permission to
throw away all of it.
And then.
Just keep whatever little bitsare genuinely meaningful to you
and create new traditions, anddon't be afraid to do things
(31:15):
that you've literally never seenbefore.
I, I shot an elopement, uh, latelast year that they, uh, they
had a, you know, a.
Real quote unquote receptionwith everybody at the end.
But in the morning they went totheir family's beach house with
just the two of them, theirsiblings and their siblings,
spouses, no one else.
And me and everyone was wearinglike matching set sweatsuits,
(31:39):
like ev the whole, everyone elsewas in Navy.
And then the two, the, thecouple were in like, sort of
like a wine red, just likelittle sweatshirts and
sweatpants.
Cause it was cold.
It was December.
and they had created a thresholdcrossing the ceremony.
They found driftwood on thebeach, made a little threshold.
They had elements of like allfour elements, you know, fire,
(32:01):
air, earth, water.
and they had built a ceremonywith, uh, like the aloha
greeting chant, the mantra, likedifferent bits.
Their cultures and theirbackgrounds and what was
meaningful to them as a couple.
And essentially wrote the entirething from scratch.
And everyone just like sat on,you know, towels on the beach
(32:25):
and they all, they criedtogether.
They prayed together, they justlike hung out.
And then at the end, they jpedover the driftwood and became
married.
Mm-hmm.
And then they stripped to theirunderwear and ran into the.
like you can do that.
Mm-hmm.
(32:45):
that's allowed.
Mm-hmm.
And they chose those things, notbecause they had seen them
before on Pinterest or, youknow, oh, inspiration board.
Like, and that's so valid.
Do that too, if you want.
But they picked those thingsbecause as a couple, they are
very spiritual around the fourelements.
The ocean is very important tothem.
Mm-hmm.
And so they sort of reallystarted from scratch and built a
(33:08):
ceremony that was unique to themand also every single element of
it was completely meaningful tothem.
And they weren't doing a singlething because they thought they
had to mm-hmm.
and, and you're allowed to dothat.
And so, you know, you don't evenhave.
Have the representation ofsomeone else having done it
before you, you can literallyjust make shit up.
(33:32):
If it's meaningful to you, itwill work.
And the people who are there toyou know, who love you
unconditionally and support you,will back you up and be like,
that's the coolest thing.
Like they came out of the oceanafter and everyone was like,
yeah, like just hearing forthem.
And that was it.
Like that was the wedding and,and it.
(33:52):
honestly, so much moremeaningful watching it.
Mm-hmm.
than any like the man and thewoman, blah, blah, blah.
Like very like you don't evenwrite your own vows, like very,
you know, we're doing thetemplate.
customize that shit cuz it'sabout the two of you.
It's not about doing a weddingthe way a wedding should be
(34:13):
done.
Cuz that's what does that evenmean?
Yeah.
Well it's your money.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Like, oh gosh, hearing you sharethat story, like I was getting
like goosebps.
Like that's so, that's sopowerful cuz like you just had
so much of like who you are inthe creation of that.
(34:35):
Yeah.
And like, I mean, and thejoining of the two of you
shouldn't, it, shouldn't everysingle piece of it represent
whom you.
right?
Yeah.
So if, if the traditions workfor you, if you, you know, if
you wanna do your classic vowsthat everyone else has done, if
that's meaningful to you, do it.
I'm not knocking that.
But do it because it'smeaningful to you, not because
(34:57):
that's the template, right?
Exactly.
Yeah.
Do you have anything like thatfor your own wedding?
Yeah, we're doing, It's a littlebit more traditional route.
Uh, no running into the oceanfor us.
Uh, but we, uh, Ali is Jewishand I'm, whatever the fuck this
is.
I'm not really religious at all,but, uh, we're doing various
(35:19):
Jewish elements.
So we're doing a Katuba, whichis the marriage contract.
Mm-hmm.
We're stepping on the glasswe're doing a modernized version
of the Seven Blessings.
traditionally the woman.
Walks seven circles around theman because he's like the head
of the household and she'sbuilding the house around him.
and that doesn't super apply tous and also doesn't feel super
(35:41):
modern.
So, uh, a very common way toupdate that for even straight
couples who just wanna be moremodern or uh, queer couples is
you each do three circles aroundthe other person and then you do
a little dossy dough as theseventh circle.
So it feels a lot more, even,uh, and we are dancing in the
horror and so we're doing, youknow, we're doing a lot of
Jewish elements.
(36:02):
But we're also gonna do a handfasting, which, which I, I
found, I was looking at sort oflike, not necessarily strictly
pagan, but like sort ofnon-religious things.
And that came up and I was like,Oh, I, that, it, it immediately
like my heart, I knew that thatwas something that was gonna be
really meaningful to me.
(36:22):
so we'll be doing that.
and for people that don't evenknow, uh, you like, do you, you
hold hands one hand in one handand you do different, like
passing over of different colorsof ribbons that represent
different things.
And then at the end you pull andyou Yes, it is folks, you tie
the knot, that's where thatphrase comes from.
And then you get to like havethat, you get to have the
(36:42):
literal.
Not that you tied.
So we're gonna be doing that.
Uh, we, a lot of weddings havephoto booths, which I think is
super fun.
Uh, I wanted to level that upbecause as a photographer, I
think I want better than that.
Uh, we are renting a, likeliving room chaise.
Set from our venue with likerugs and like little side
(37:05):
tables.
And we are going to set up, uh,like wind up little cheapo film
cameras and people can do like areal photo shoot at our wedding,
which is gonna be super fun.
We're gonna have, uh, We'regonna have a little cake for
just the two of us, but everyoneelse, uh, and also us, uh, is
gonna get little s'mores kitsand we're gonna have a bonfire.
we're gonna have like, just lotsof different things.
(37:27):
Uh, we have, we have kids comingto our wedding, which I know is
polarizing.
they're all angels, very selectchildren are allowed.
We're gonna have like coloringpages and activities for them
where it'll be two brides withlike very simple dresses.
and you get to design thewedding dress or like, here's a
five tier cake drawing.
You decorate the wedding cake.
(37:49):
we just wanna, again, have itfeel more like a family reunion
than a wedding.
and, and, Have activities beyondjust like, let's get drunken
dance.
Uh, cause that's not super ourstyle and it's gonna be really
fun.
I'm excited and like, you know,for my bachelorette, like, I'm
gonna take my, my wedding partyto the boardwalk, like a theme
(38:10):
park like, where's gonna go?
Because it's like, I don't.
I don't, what do you do with,with Vegas and penis straws when
you're mostly sober and gay?
Like, you know, you know, yeah,yeah.
And they're perfect for somepeople.
Again, I'm not knocking it, it'sjust like, that sounds like
trash for me.
Yeah.
So I'm not gonna do that.
(38:31):
but it's gonna be really funand, and again, very unique to
us.
I think people are gonna comeand be like, oh, that's Ali and
Johnny.
That's, that makes this makesperfect sense.
Yeah.
Which is probably like thehighest compliment you could
get.
Right?
For sure.
And that's, that's the goal,right?
Is like we want it to berepresentative of us because
it's about us.
(38:52):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Well, oh my gosh, I'm soexcited.
I like can't wait to hear allabout it and it almost makes me
feel like we could do like awhole other episode after the
fact, you know?
Just because Sure.
I feel like it'll be such a.
You know, experience for youactually like living that day.
(39:13):
Like Yeah.
And, and what went well, whatwent well and what went wrong.
Cuz there's obviously gonna bethings that go wrong and, and I
would love to do that.
So I'll, I'll see you in a yearand we'll talk Yeah.
or even dinner actually it'sterrifying where the 16th of
this month will be six monthsout, which is, yeah, I was just
gonna say wild.
(39:35):
And then are you two like doingany.
Post traveling celebration.
We are just trying to getthrough the wedding.
Okay.
we, we wouldn't be doinganything right away.
Allie's, uh, teacher and so shedoesn't wanna like miss a ton of
school, but she kind of getspretty, you know, she does like
the, the smer, uh, camp programat her school in the smer, but
(39:58):
that's a lot easier to take timeoff of than like, we're doing
curricul.
This is a school year.
Uh, so we would probably dosomething.
Like next smer, not this comingsmer.
but this smer we're going backto Greece.
So we're gonna have like kind ofa pre-wet bef before moon.
(40:18):
which it's gonna be super fun,but it, one thing that is
stressing me out is like, we gotreally severe tan lines when we
went last smer that lasted untilHalloween.
Uh, and so I have to, A bunchof, like, we have to get
strapless swimsuits, we have toget strapless like we to get
tube tops like we have to, cuzthere's just, it's gonna be
(40:42):
heinous with our dresses.
So we have to find a bunch of,uh, strapless things so that we
can, uh, get tan withoutgetting, uh, lines all over our
bodies that are gonna be therein September.
But that'll be fun.
We're very excited.
We love Greece.
That is very exciting.
But also I would be stressedabout that.
(41:03):
I don't, I don't handlestrapless super well, so good
luck.
No, exactly.
I'm like, we don't have liketeeny tiny boobs.
Like we have to find, I've, I'vealready started research Cause
you gotta find good ones.
Mm-hmm.
So like, we're gonna be likesnorkeling and shit.
Like I want straps, but I alsodon't want tan lines at my.
So here we are.
(41:24):
Yeah.
Well, thank you so much for, forsharing like part of your story
and for sharing all of thoseamazing tips.
I feel like it's so.
Yeah.
It's just so refreshing.
And also a little bit rare tolike talk to someone who's in
your position.
You know, like could probablywalk down the street and find
(41:45):
like a straight bride and belike, oh, you know, weddings.
But like having theseconversations that include, you
know, queer people gettingmarried is super important.
So thank you so much.
Of course.
Can I make one last Recomme.
Yes.
I had this TikTok go viral, thatI highly, highly recommend if it
works for your venue.
(42:07):
I highly recommend having yourphotographer run up to where
your efficient is when, whenthey pronounce you tell the
efficient ahead of time so theymove.
I've had to hip check efficientbefore, and have your
photographer.
Take a picture of your firstkiss in reverse.
So from where you're efficientis standing so that everyone is
cheering behind you.
(42:28):
there's gonna be a millionpictures of you kissing on your
big day.
There's not really anything thatmakes that particular kiss
picture special cuz it's justyou up there and like, you know,
it's a first kiss, but itdoesn't.
It doesn't, it's not obvious byhaving your photographer go
stand where your efficient is.
Like you get that moment oflike, this is the moment we got
married.
and that's really special.
(42:49):
So you need a little bit of roombehind where your E is standing.
as people in the commentscontinuously love to tell me,
this would never happen in achurch.
Thank God I don't get hired forchurch weddings.
but if it works for your, if itworks for your venue, I highly,
highly recommend it.
A lot of people don't thinkabout that.
and just getting that picture,uh, that's gonna make it a
million times more meaningful.
(43:10):
for everyone that commented,like, Jessica, we never working
in a church, there were 30people commenting.
We did this and this was ourfavorite picture of our entire
day.
Mm-hmm.
So highly, highly, highlyrecommend, uh, and plan that
with your e ahead of time sothat they know, oh, I'm sorry, O
officiant.
People yelled at me for how Ipronounce that too.
It's fine.
People on the internet love toyell at people.
(43:31):
I don't really give a shit.
Uh, but yeah, I highly recommendgetting that picture.
We're gonna do it.
It's gonna be beautiful.
You want shit that you wannaframe and put on your wall three
feet tall, you know?
Right.
No, I love that.
Yeah.
And speaking of, you can findJenny on Instagram and TikTok at
Jenny Chapman Photography.
Okay.
Yes.
It'll be linked in the shownotes.
(43:52):
So go say hello and you can kindof see what they're talking
about.
Yeah.
My, uh, on TikTok, it's pinned.
And don't be mad at me that Ididn't do examples.
I did one with examples.
It's also pinned.
Stop commenting, yelling at me.
Thank you.
Oh, you're amazing.
Thank you for having me.
This was super, super.
(44:13):
Yes, of course.
Clearly beloved, thank you forjoining us this week and we'll
see you right back here nextweek.
Bye.
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