August 2, 2023 • 48 mins
In this episode I interview Hannah with Palindrome. We discuss everything from her own inclusive business practices, to how the industry needs to shift and change, as well as what lgbtqia+ couples can be on the look out for when hiring a HMUA for their own wedding days. Give it a listen and go check out Palindrome! @pal.in.drome.llc on Instagram!
The intro and all instrumentals were written, sung and recorded by @JaynaDavisMusic
Queerly Beloved, I'm so glad you joined!
Please keep the community going by checking me out on instagram @wildlyconnectedphoto and come say hi! I'd love to hear from you! :)
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
All right, queer beloved,welcome back to this week's
episode.
My name is Ana, you, she herpronouns, and I have someone
super amazing with me heretoday.
Another internet friend turnedinto a super awesome connection,
so I'm really, really excitedand I would love to hand it over
(00:21):
to you, Hannah, to introduceyourself, your pronouns, and any
other identities you want toshare.
Hi.
Yes, thanks for having me.
Uh, my name's Hannah and I runPalindrome, which is a wedding
hair and makeup business.
My pronouns are she her.
Um, I'm a queer woman of colorin the business world, and I
(00:41):
just love to include everybodyinto everything.
Oh, I love that.
Right off the bat.
Yeah.
And what I was telling Hannahbefore we hopped on is I feel
like that's been such a rarething to find is someone who not
only is from the community, butis also like so openly wanting
(01:05):
to work with everyone andcelebrate everyone.
So, Ugh.
I'm just so excited to have youhere, and I would love to hear a
little bit more about like whatyou do, how you got started,
what you're passionate about.
I.
Yes.
Um, I've been doing it for 16years.
I went straight to beauty schoolfrom high school and then from
(01:29):
there I knew a lot of peoplethat were getting married young,
so I started doing weddingsright away in kind of a subpar
environment, is how I wouldexplain it.
I didn't know.
A lot of things and a lot ofthe, you know, disinfection, you
know, doing all that stuff anddisinfecting things and doing it
appropriately.
So I just kind of dove in andsaid, I can do this job.
(01:51):
And I sorted it out with acouple of my friends and then I
realized pretty quickly that Iwanted to be running a full
business.
Not only do I wanna run abusiness for myself, but I like
to run a business for others.
So I just.
It evolved, um, and we mademistakes and we learned a lot of
things and now we done it, do itin a like full fledged business
(02:13):
environment.
And then I really decided that Iwanted to be all inclusive.
Um, I set good boundaries.
I know what I need from thebrides or from the humans,
really.
Um, and I just throw that outthere and kind of throw the ball
in their court.
Uh, but then I like to announceto everybody where I stand on
(02:35):
all those opinions that peopledon't like to talk about.
I hate the fact that people ask,have to ask if we're queer
friendly, gay friendly, transfriendly, any of that.
I think it's ridiculous thatthat even has to be said out
loud.
So I want to announce it so thateverybody could feel comfortable
right away.
Um, and as a woman of color,that was another thing that I
also just found to be just yuck.
(02:58):
I just didn't like it.
It's not just for white people.
I just think that's ridiculous.
And so that was another thingthat I really wanted to gear my
business towards and kind of hitthis market of we love
everybody.
We want to accept everybody nomatter what.
And I say that too, on theopposite end of conservative
levels as well.
(03:18):
Like, if you love my businessand where I stand, then I'll
accept you too.
Um, I think there's that fineline of being too much on either
side, so I just try to be asopen to everybody as they wanna
be to me.
Um, and again, with boundaries.
Um, My passions are food.
Um, I should probably include mydaughter in there.
(03:42):
She's also a passion of mine,but passion's probably not the
exact right description for her.
Um, love her dearly, but food ismy hobby.
I get a lot of pushback onwhether or not food can be a
hobby.
It for all my time and my moneyand my thoughts go, I just, I'm
eating, you know, lunch,thinking about dinner.
(04:05):
I just love food and I'll.
I think that is truly the topicthat would take over most
conversations.
That's amazing.
Hey, you know, everybody's gottheir thing.
I think it can, you can havewhatever hobby you want.
Yeah.
Um, you being adult, I guess.
(04:26):
Yeah.
Wow.
That is, that is awesome thatyou have really found.
Your niche and, and kind ofpassion in what you do in that
regard too.
Um, and I think it's somethingthat's, so obviously like as
queer people, I think weunderstand there is always that
(04:47):
idea of like constantly comingout, right?
In like any setting, you know,kind of always have to make that
choice.
Right?
And I feel like hair is one ofthose things where.
I know, like when I've gotten tosee a new person, that's part of
the experience, right?
Is like chatting and they ask alot of questions, all the
(05:07):
things.
And it's kind of like in thatmoment, you know, they're asking
about your weekend and if youlive with someone and you kind
of have to like decide what am Igonna say here?
So to have, you know, someonelike you and your business that
are just putting it out therelike.
(05:28):
I know I appreciate that somuch, so I can imagine that so
many other people in thecommunity appreciate it a lot,
so thanks for doing that.
Yeah, it came from a probablyself-indulgent level.
I just got tired of theconversation and so I wanted to
let everybody know that this isgonna be a part of the
conversation and it's totallyfine if you don't have that same
(05:51):
life.
I just think.
That's the environment you'rewalking into with me.
Um, so if that makes youuncomfortable, then you probably
shouldn't sign up with me.
Yeah.
And when you kind of chose to dothat, to put it out there, put
it up front, did you see likeshifts in your business, whether
it was positively or negatively,or both?
(06:14):
Yes.
Absolutely.
And I knew that that wouldhappen.
Of course, that's gonna happen.
That's human nature.
Um, but I also knew.
I wanted the direction and thegive and take that would come
with it would be worth it at ahundred percent.
And it has been, um, the peoplewho didn't want to did not
continue.
And I think that's great.
And the people who were like, ohmy gosh, I didn't know that
(06:35):
about you, that makes me loveyou even more, then I think
that's great too.
So I think a lot of businesseskind of tend to stay pretty
neutral on like political levelsand things like that.
And I don't feel like I shoutfrom a rooftop of.
Political standpoints and thingslike that.
But you can guess where I standon the line.
And I think for me, I wannaattract the people that we're
(06:59):
gonna have the best time ever.
So if I don't really want it tobe a secret, and then all of a
sudden we're in a situation thatboth of us are kind of
uncomfortable with, so I wouldjust say, Hey, this is where I'm
at.
If that's not where you're at,then I think that's great, but
then you should probably findsomebody else because there's
like, do this job.
So you know, find somebody thatfits.
I think that's great.
(07:20):
And I see we have an, uh,surprise guest joining us here.
Yes, Alice.
She likes to be where the peopleare.
Oh, no, that's great.
Yeah, I mean, it sounds likeit's been best case scenario and
mutually beneficial on bothsides.
'cause that means like you don'thave to hide anything about you
(07:42):
either, which is like, who wantsto do that when they're.
Running their business.
Uh, exactly.
And you know, as somebody who'sgrown, grown up in a white
world, to me it just gets kindof boring to be offended all the
time.
And I just think, just see if ithave some culture and come with
it or find somebody else thatdoesn't.
(08:03):
And that's, that's the option.
But we don't, I don't feel likeI need to be forced into being
uncomfortable any longer.
I can just live the life I wannalive and move along.
I, I love that so much and Ithink you're making such a big
difference in the community.
So thank you again.
And I, yeah, I would love tochat a little bit about
(08:26):
weddings,'cause Yeah, that'swhat we chat about around here.
So as someone who does hair andmakeup, how do you see your role
in making sure that couples feelreally comfortable and safe on
their day?
Like presenting however it isthat they want to present?
Yeah, there's so much that is, Ithink, Required in a thought
(08:49):
process.
One of it is just beingprepared.
Being prepared for allsituations.
You never know what you'regetting into.
And for me, I know otherbusinesses in my same field do
it differently, and the way Irun it and the way I choose to
run it is just be prepared forall situations.
I don't ask ahead of time ofwhat's coming.
I love a heads up, you know,especially with pronouns because
(09:10):
it's always, you don't alwaysknow, and I would never wanna be
offensive.
So I think it's worth knowing,but, There's just so much of it
that you walk into not knowing.
So for us is hair and makeup.
It's being prepared for allthings, not just having kind of
a one size fits all.
Um, and I think it's reallyimportant.
I also think that, and I'vetrained my team on this, is to.
(09:32):
Just do your best to not beoffensive, you know?
And you can be offensive in anysituation.
Not intending to.
I've offended plenty of peopleby accident because I was trying
to kind of skirt the line,assuming some pronouns, you
know, and like staying safe onthat.
And then, you know, somebodyoffended and that kind of way.
And I just think there's thishuge.
(09:56):
To take responsibility and justsay, I am so sorry, that was not
intentional.
Um, let me make that correction,you know, and just own the truth
of the, sorry, you know,imperfect as well, so, To me, I
think that's a huge part of itas well.
It's a personal thing for me tojust take responsibility for
your actions as well.
I mean, I just think that's anappropriate adult thing to do in
(10:20):
life, but especially inbusiness, I think there's that
line of professionalism that youreally need to stay behind
securely.
And if you make a mistake, youmake a mistake, just own it and
move on, that's the best you cando.
So, um, I think it's also beingopen-minded to.
Just everything of like thesuggestions and the, you know,
(10:40):
it might not look how you feellike it should look.
The whole, you know, gettingready together, that happens in
heterosexual relationships aswell.
It's not a specifically gaything to do, and who cares.
I just think that I, I mean,there's so many things in rabbit
trails that could go on on thattopic, but I just think people
(11:02):
should get to do what they want.
Their day.
It's their day and they shouldget to do it whatever way makes
them feel best, and I supportthat.
Then it's just talking about thelogistics of how that can work
best for everybody involved.
Yeah, absolutely.
And I assume there has to be acertain level too, of kind of
(11:22):
coming in.
I think you already touched onit a little bit, but sort of
coming in without any.
Assumptions, right?
Like you're not coming in andbeing like, okay, well that's
kinda how they look.
And so I'm gonna ask them ifthey want this certain kind of
hairstyle that I usually seeother people that maybe look
(11:45):
similar, asking for it kind ofthing.
Like just kind of coming in withno assumptions and kind of just
going off of them.
Is that kind of part of yourpractice too?
Absolutely.
And I, my whole philosophy is,put your order in.
You can have whatever you want.
That does not matter to me.
You just gotta tell me the boxthat you wanna be in, and then
(12:06):
that's what I'm gonna give you.
And I've heard, again, it wasunintentional, but I've heard
several artists on my team, noton my team, you know, working
with other vendors that just saythings and they don't mean to,
but it's, you know, oh, you wantit to look glamorous?
And I thought, Why can't theylook glamorous?
If they wanna look glamorous, ifthey have short hair, that
doesn't mean anything.
You know?
And I understood how they gotthere, but I just think you
(12:29):
gotta try harder.
You gotta do your best to justlet them be as they wanna be.
It doesn't matter.
And what do you really care?
That's my opinion.
What do you care?
They can have whatever theywant.
I wanna have whatever I want.
Yes.
Right.
That's so true.
Like, and I'm so glad that youbrought that up because I've
(12:49):
seen that a lot too.
Um, you know, when I have twobrides, um, or, you know, even
maybe folks who are non-binary,like I've heard them multiple
times be like, oh, like the, youknow, something along the lines
of the hair and makeup peoplestarted packing up and I was
like, wait, no.
Like, I'm.
(13:10):
I'm getting my hair done too.
Like yeah.
That's just such a sad stigmathat I'm, I'm sad still exists,
but how do you kind of navigatethat, like around ideas like, oh
yeah.
On a wedding day, only onemember of the couple gets hair
and makeup or, or anything alongthose lines.
(13:34):
I.
I personally do my best to justask the questions ahead of time.
I mean, it's part of the jobthat I personally do for my
team, but just in life, I thinkjust ask, you know, are you
interested in doing hair andmakeup services?
And most of the time I know thatinformation walking into it, but
it's just never assuming.
And then two, taking.
(13:56):
Taking into account what they'retelling you.
You know, like, okay, I justwant you to feel in comfort
level.
So whatever that may be, whetherit's just a little bit or a lot
or middle ground, you can havewhatever you want.
And quite frankly, if it's worthit to you to be pampered in some
sort of way, then it's worth it.
Um, goes to, you know, men whowould like their makeup done.
(14:21):
I just think there's that wholething too, and I had to work
hard to change all my verbiageto be appropriate because
there's so many different typesof options and I don't think
that men should have to pay moreor less because they're a man or
they identify as a man or they,you know.
(14:42):
Same with all the things, all ofthe gen, all of it.
And I just think, let's justcall him human.
Everybody can just be, you know,and that's what it is.
And I get pushback on that quitea bit, especially from
heterosexual people who don'tunderstand why I would word it
that way.
And I just explain to them aspolitely as possible that, you
know, this is an all inclusive,like we want everybody to feel
(15:06):
comfortable.
So, and it honestly is anattraction point for my
particular business.
I get that all the time, andpeople appreciate it.
Because the people whoappreciate it appreciate it, you
know, and the people who don'tunderstand it have questions.
Um, and I think that's okay.
Yeah.
And honestly, I would love toknow, because we have both
(15:30):
couples and vendors who listenand, and so maybe for other
vendors or other, Artists outthere.
Practically speaking, what doyou mean when you say like,
changing your verbiage or likewhat your pricing looks like?
So for me, if I was shoppingaround for a hair and makeup
vendor for myself, I would beoffended if the contract wrote,
(15:55):
you know, read as bride name.
Um, Or bridal contract.
I don't think that it's justbrides that are signing these
contracts and to me it's just aclient.
So I try to make it as genderneutral as possible by saying,
you know, for my pricing, it'sall humans.
This age and older is this priceand this age and younger, or
(16:16):
this price, and it could beanybody who falls in those
categories.
Um, I simplified my menu, so forthat exact reason, just to say,
You know, this is what it isacross the board for whoever it
is that would like to receivethat service.
Um, client is also a word that Iuse as opposed to putting any
sort of gender attached to it.
(16:36):
Um, try to just keep it, again,really neutral, but also
explanatory so people canunderstand what they're signing
up for.
But it is my personal opinion inlife that more is more in
communication.
So I like to really.
Throw it at them and say,listen, if this is not a good
fit, this is what you'resigning.
(16:57):
So make sure you understand sothat you can, you know, and it
simplifies my life too, assomebody who has a high volume
level of contact with thewedding world, just based on my
team and, you know, experience,I suppose.
And even on like a totally.
Small scale hearing you saythat, I'm like, wow, I wish that
(17:17):
that would be a thing morewidespread.
'cause even um, my partner, shehas like very, very short hair.
Like presents very mask.
And like every time she gets herhair cut, they're essentially
speaking to her as if she was aman, but then still charging her
the extra cost of getting awoman's haircut.
(17:38):
Ugh.
I changed that too.
I said just it's haircut.
It's just a haircut.
So whoever you are, whateveryou're doing, that is what it
is.
Um, but that took me a while.
I mean, it took me to even like,put the work in to review my own
stuff.
It took me a minute to say, sitdown and say, Hey, let's do
(17:58):
this.
Like, let's focus and make surethat everything is as fluid as
possible.
But I hate that, that reallybums me out.
Um, I get really freaking madabout it.
This is how I feel about venueswho have bride getting ready
rooms and groom getting readyrooms.
And I think it's disgusting.
And then I also think it'sreally gross when they assign
(18:19):
who they think is the bride andgroom.
And I, I get really mad about itand I want to blacklist a lot of
those people.
Not that I get to choose thatfor my.
Weddings.
But sometimes I think aboutthat.
I'm like, if I was shoppingaround for that, I would say,
no, thank you.
That to me would be a red flagenough for me to be like, you do
(18:39):
not get my money.
Thank you.
Yes.
A million times.
Yes.
Um, I just did an interview witha venue space and that's
something we talked about a lotbecause it's like, yeah, it
sucks.
Like, you know, even thinkingabout with my partner in the
future, It's not like one of uswants to be in a nice space and
(19:01):
one of us wants to be stuck withlike a deer head and a pool
table.
Like it, it just is like theplaces that have figured it out
and kind of just been like, youknow, you both deserve like a
nice space and they don't haveto be like polar opposites of
each other.
Um, and like the amount ofcouples I've worked with who.
(19:23):
Yeah, in those examples,sometimes one of them will just
end up, you know, getting readyin the hotel room or something
because it's just like, that'sso sad.
Like no one wants to feel likethey have to be a man to be
getting ready, you know?
It's just Exactly.
I also leave space to try tounderstand that some of these
are kind of historic venues andhaven't quite done the work to
(19:47):
get up to the times, and I canunderstand how.
That can be a thing.
They deserve some grace to likeget up because, you know,
running a business is a wholejob, so it's, I get it.
Come up to speed, I think thenyou just have to compensate
accordingly.
And the tours and the, you know,the information being presented
of like, no, no, we're stillsuper friendly.
(20:09):
We just haven't quite gottenthere all the way yet.
And to me that's enough.
I'll accept that.
Like as long as you'reacknowledging the fact that
you're not doing it.
Wonderfully.
I can move on.
Right.
Yeah, I love that.
Always leaving room for sure.
Um, I'm glad you brought this upthough, because I also kind of
(20:29):
wanted to discuss sometimeswithin the community there are
couples who actually wanna getready together.
Um, I think that's something Isee.
Quite frequently or hear from myown couples of just like, well,
we're like each other's bestfriends.
You know?
Like, why wouldn't we wanna gettogether or get, get ready
together?
(20:49):
Um, and I think I've heard ahandful of them get some
pushback from, you know,whoever's giving the tour or
whatever.
Like, what, why would you getready together?
Like, how are you gonna, isthat, you know, that kind of
thing.
So how would you respond?
To that, it's a tough topic forme because I don't understand
(21:12):
why it matters, and to me, thosepeople who say that response out
loud are so crunchy that I justthink, okay, you're stale.
You're a stale experience of ahuman, and I'm embarrassed for
you that you are this kind ofway because you're pushing your
agenda into me and I'm trying togive you quite a bit of money.
So what do you actually care?
(21:35):
It literally doesn't matter.
And again, They do that morewith same sex couples, but I
know I have plenty ofheterosexual couples that get
ready in the same space, andthen they sometimes have a
moment where they're like, okay,I'm fully getting ready now.
Maybe you don't look at me thismoment, but like I've had it
all.
(21:55):
And I just think, why was thatEven your job to comment on my
life is not to be commented onby you.
I don't comment on your life.
So I, I don't to, I just getreally worked up about it.
'cause I think that's stupid.
I also think that the, thebusinesses as a whole should be
addressing that to their people.
(22:16):
And again, some things just slipout.
I get that.
I understand from my own teamthat some people just don't.
They don't know and they wannaknow, but they haven't done a
lot of work to know.
And I think that they, they dotheir best in that capacity.
But then in those moments whenyou can see that it's been
offensive in some sort of way,it's just take ownership of
like, oh, I'm so sorry, I, Ijust didn't quite understand.
(22:39):
Or Do you mind educating me onthat?
In my opinion as a human, Ithink that to me, that safe
space, I might not still bookwith you, but at least you
tried, but.
I've had plenty of experienceswhere people are just rude.
I mean, I got married once, I'mno longer married, but dress
(22:59):
shopping was a nightmare and itwas terrible and it was, some
person said to me, Ugh, we don'tmake wedding dresses and
children's sizes.
I thought, I'm just like apetite Asian woman.
I'm just like a regular size.
I'm not even like unusuallyshort or, it was super bizarre
and I thought, okay, well shouldI just leave then?
Should I continue?
Or like, are you gonna show menothing to me?
(23:22):
That's just a wild thing to sayout loud.
Why would you say that?
And it was, I had a nightmare ofa time.
And then the last place out ofseven that I went to was finally
wonderful.
They understood the assignment,they heard what I had to say.
They didn't waste my time, youknow?
And it was just like amazing.
And I think.
That's the training there in allof wedding vendor life to just
(23:46):
do your best.
I also think some people havespecific agendas that they would
like to get across.
I know I do, which is why Iwould like to be things.
Um, but I just think there's theopposite side of that people,
and then they should find theirown people.
Um, so do what you want, youknow, in your own business.
(24:07):
That's the right.
Yes.
I'm hearing, I think I'm hearinga lot of themes of sort of like,
just keep it to yourself ingeneral.
Like why are you, but then it'skind of like a double-edged
sword, right?
Like I've, I've talked to thiswith some folks where it's like,
yeah, that sucks.
Like, why would you say that?
And at the same time, there aremoments of like, But at least I
(24:32):
know now.
You know what I mean?
Like, because you said that,that revealed something to me
about who you are and I mightnot have known otherwise and
like maybe found that out later,like on my wedding day, which
would suck worse.
You know what I mean?
So it's kind of like a weird.
(24:52):
Absolutely.
And again, I put myself in thisside of the line, but I do try
to save space for those thatwanna stay on the other side of
the line.
There are a lot of people whowould love that and they should
have their people as well.
And so I do try to, I, I say allinclusive because I think I
would like to include everybody,including the people I disagree
(25:13):
with, and that.
I think that that's an easything to do, to be just offended
constantly.
And again, I've offended plentyof people.
I've offended plenty of peoplein the queer community, uh, by
accident, and I thought, that'syour opinion, and I didn't know
that.
And how would I know that, thatthat would be somehow offensive
to you?
When I'm sitting here at Pridetrying to present myself as
(25:34):
like, I'm here to supporteverybody.
And you know, I've had somepushback on things that I just
thought, oh, I'm sorry, I didn'tknow.
And then to me, all I can do atthat point is say, sorry, I
didn't know.
Thank you so much for educatingme.
I'm gonna take that note and,you know, adjust further.
But there's a lot of that too, Ithink in vendors.
Uh, you know, you as thebusiness owner can.
(25:58):
Present a certain way and thenyour team doesn't, and how are
they gonna manage that?
Or they didn't know, they didn'thave all the education you do on
the topic.
So I just try to leave space.
And you're right, I do think,uh, keep it to yourself moment
as somebody who suffers stronglyfrom R B F, I think.
There's that time where it'slike, just say face as best as
(26:18):
you can, try to look pleasantand move along.
And then you process that in thecar on the way home, you know?
Oh my gosh.
Yeah.
No, I, I really appreciate thatand I, I appreciate you saying
that as well too.
'cause I think, um, it's, it'skind of a common theme or
something I've mentioned severaltimes on this podcast of.
(26:41):
I think a lot of people comeinto this space still with kind
of that like nervous energy oflike, oh my gosh, like what if I
mess up?
And like, there's so many thingsto learn and nah, like, it's so
complicated.
And it's one of those thingswhere it's like, I, I understand
it feels that way, but also it'slike really not once you kind of
(27:01):
start like practicing it.
And at the same time, I lovethat you've said that because
that's all you can do is justlike acknowledge and move on
like.
I am still learning all the timetoo, and like I'm in the
community.
Like, it's just, I, I reallyappreciate you bringing up that
theme and kind of remindingeverybody that we're just trying
(27:22):
to do our best.
That's what I think.
I, I'm an adopted human that hasgrown up in a white world, so
I've gotten lots of offensivecomments my whole life, and my
mom used to say, tell me, youcan choose to be offended or you
can choose to educate them.
That's how I've practicedeverything.
When people ask me a stupidquestion or, you know, not a
(27:43):
correct way to ask me, and Iknow what they're trying to ask
me.
I have a choice every singletime.
What am I gonna do?
And I found in my life it is notworth my energy, my personal
energy that, that I carry withme per day.
You know, it's not worth that toalways be offended.
Sometimes it's just worth it tobe like they didn't mean it like
that.
(28:03):
That's not what they meant.
And then sometimes I go in hardand I'm like, that's rude.
That's not a correct way to askthat question.
If you'd like to know theanswer, you're gonna have to
figure that out.
Google's a really good sourcefor how to figure that out, you
know, and I'll just fight back.
But it's not always worth theenergy to be combative like
that.
I don't think I have a lot ofother uses for this energy that
(28:24):
I get per day.
And, uh, I gotta manage itappropriately.
Yeah.
For sure.
I agree.
But for those who are interestedin doing better, um, and those
who are interested in kind ofbeing on the lookout for the
(28:44):
people who are doing better, um,as couples are kind of looking
for someone for their weddingday, is, is there anything that
they should look for, um, interms of red flags or be
cautious of, um, or even just.
Looking to see like, are theytrying at least?
(29:06):
Yeah, I think there's so manyanswers that I could come up
with for this.
Again, based on my own personalopinions, but also the opinions
of others that I know.
Um, I think a pride flag goes along way in a website, on an
Instagram, you know, things likethat.
I try to personally represent.
(29:26):
All as much as possible on myInstagram.
Like if I can get anythingthat's like atypical in a good
photo, I'm gonna post it and I'mgonna post it often because to
me it's worth just having therepresentation available.
Um, and I think that.
People can sort that out prettyquickly.
(29:47):
It's when it's a little bit graythat it's harder to, I mean, I,
again, I look for same-sexcouples when I'm shopping around
for any vendor.
Um, I do my homework too on, youknow, what does your contract
say?
If I can view that, uh, ahead oftime or even the contact form of
how to get ahold of the person.
(30:07):
Um, I look at that as well,because when it's very gender
specific, it tells me that maybethat.
Not a direction you're going.
And I could be wrong, I getfairly judgy about it for my own
personal use, but I stand in therealm of, I could be wrong and I
hope that I am, but there's alot of little things that give
(30:30):
me clues.
And this could border onoffensive.
But if they're very, if theylove Jesus very much, they
probably don't love that I'mbisexual.
So I don't typically entertainthat type of vendor.
Again, I know lots of people wholove Jesus and are still very
(30:53):
progressive, but when I'mshopping around, that is a thing
that I'm like, Ooh, to me it's ared flag.
And I don't know that Inecessarily wanna take the time
to figure out if it isn't,because there are so many other
options.
But if I was really sold on thatperson and really wanted that
and I was like, oh, they wouldbe my first choice, I just wish,
(31:13):
you know, I would maybe put somemore work into it.
But otherwise, no, I that, Ithink pronouns are also a good
use of.
Research, do they have an optionto, for me to tell them my
pronouns or do they not?
Um, some people will write that.
I've seen that before.
You know, if you have specificpronouns, then you're not, for
(31:37):
us, it wasn't written exactlylike that, but that's what they
were saying.
And I thought good informationto have.
Um, I guess I'm glad that I'mnot wasting my time.
Also wildly inappropriate, butokay, you live in that space.
Good for you, I suppose.
I don't know, but yeah.
(31:57):
And then too, like bride groomspecific, I think all gender
specific things.
Mm-hmm.
Now, again, I understand thewhole bathroom thing is a tough
one because, and to me it'slower on the list of judgments
for spaces.
But yeah, I like to look at theteam as well.
(32:20):
Whoever's running the, you know,the team and the environment
that I'd be walking into.
Yeah, those are my personalopinions on those topics.
Yes, absolutely.
And I mean, you are like, foreveryone listening, you should
definitely go check out herwebsite'cause you are like
living proof of a lot of thethings you just said, like
(32:40):
literally.
The first image on your homepageis someone who is not a young
client, like they are an olderclient.
And I think even that is justlike right off the bat, like,
wow, that is so cool.
And that tells me that you'renot just doing what everybody
else is doing.
I think too, to all the thingsyou touched on, it is again like
(33:04):
room for grace in learning, but.
Some of those things, like yousaid, like having something on
your contact form that just sayspartner A and partner B or
something to that extent, likethat literally would take you 30
seconds.
So it is some of those thingswhere it's like, yeah, I can
(33:26):
understand the bathrooms.
Actually, just yesterday when Iwas uh, talking to the venue
owners, they said to put like, Agender neutral, like single cell
bathroom in their space, itwould cost over a hundred
thousand dollars to do that.
So yeah, of course there arethings where it's like, but 30
(33:48):
seconds to make a change on yourwebsite is everything.
So yeah, thank you for thatcompliment.
I worked really hard on thatwebsite because, I think
websites are so important and Iwanted instantly it to be a
vibe.
I just wanted people to knowright away without even having
(34:09):
to read anything further, thatwe are atypical, we are
accepting of everybody.
And this is, you know, and Ithink as somebody who shopped
websites, I love onlineshopping, but I just think you
can kind of instantly get that.
It's either stiff and subpar andyou didn't quite spend enough
time or money on it and youknow, it still could be good
information, but I'm probablynot looking any further.
(34:31):
To me, I just wanted it to bepopping in that like, this is
what I want you to know rightaway.
My bottom footer picture is, uh,he identifies male, um, in a
bright pink red heels.
This is a photo shoot.
Yeah.
Put together, but together.
(34:51):
He was so awesome.
And I was like, you're going onthere because this instantly
tells you everything you need toknow about my business.
And to me that is exactly thepoint of a website.
Yes, absolutely.
I try to always share the samething with, with vendors too,
and, and also to be, like yousaid, sharing those things
constantly and not just in likeJune or something like that.
(35:14):
So, Which you very obviously do,so that's amazing.
Thank you.
Um, as someone who obviously iskind of in the hair and makeup
world, you probably are, youknow, have other people in your
network and kind of hear what'shappening.
What do you think needs tochange and where do you hope to
(35:38):
kind of see your industry gomoving forward?
Yeah.
Um, there's so many of us,there's so many hair and makeup
vendors and everybody doesthings differently.
I think there's a true beauty tothat.
Just even not even beingpolitical or accepting or any of
(36:01):
that, those things, it's how dothey run their business?
What works best for you Is thebooking human that you know, do
you wanna have to pay six monthsin advance?
Do you wanna lock those numbersin?
Do you wanna, you know?
So I think there's a beauty inthat of being able to shop
around to find the perfect fit.
(36:21):
It's also overwhelming becauseyou have to shop around to find
the perfect fit.
So it's my personal opinion thatall hair and makeup vendors
should be.
Queer friendly.
Um, to me it's, it's a nobrainer.
Same sex couples have biggerbridal parties, which gets you
(36:43):
more money.
That, duh.
What, what do you care?
What do you, this is a business.
What do you mean?
So I've had, somebody told, toldme once, she said, although I
don't disagree with thatlifestyle, I would never treat
anybody differently, but I don'tfeel comfortable doing this
shoot.
And I thought, yeah, that'scalled treating somebody
differently.
That's literally the definition.
(37:05):
Um, sorry that you're only like20 and you can't figure that out
yet.
But I'm gonna let you knowbecause it's so disrespectful.
And I don't know how else shecould have said it any
differently to me, to be honest.
I don't know.
But I was like, that's just astupid thing to say out loud
because you're literallycontradicting yourself.
But, so I think all those thingsneed to change as well.
(37:25):
I, I personally think that itwould be nice if people rode the
political lines a little harder.
Um, I understand why they don't,but to me, that tells me a lot
that I need to know.
Um, this is how I would equateto a dating world as well.
Anything in online dating?
Like, can you just let me knowup front?
Can I figure, you know, can yousend me like a Google doc of
(37:45):
questions of what you'd beinterested in knowing so I can
know ahead of time as well?
Uh, that's how I would feelabout vendors too.
Like, can I just know a littlebit more information and.
You know that, I think thatthere's a huge thing too, of
being upfront.
Again, this is my personalopinion as somebody who likes to
shop this way, but I don'talways wanna contact you to get
(38:06):
information that I, that doesn'twork for me.
That feels like a poor use of mytimes.
And I also think websites aremeant to work for the business.
So if you just curate yourwebsite to give the information
as much as possible, knowingthat, you know, that might not
be the exact price for yoursituation or anything, but like
give me a ballpark so I canunderstand if it's even worth my
(38:27):
time to contact you.
Um, and then on the flip sidetoo, of, you know, people
shopping, I think read thewebsite.
That's what it's there for, isit gives you a lot of
information in my personalwebsite.
It's very informational becauseI like people to do their
homework ahead of time so that,you know, again, we're all using
our time appropriately.
Um, that's also the type ofperson I would like to be
(38:49):
attracting, so it's partiallywhy I curated it that way.
But I also think for hair andmakeup specific vendors come
prepared, please.
Don't have a one size fits allbridesmaid hairstyle that you
can do.
Please be creative and givethese people some other ideas
(39:11):
that's part of the job, anddon't force your agenda.
If they're saying, I really onlywanna have my skin tone even,
and maybe some mascara, let themhave it.
Just let them have it.
Don't try to twist their arminto being something that
they're not or that they don'tfeel comfortable in because
nobody in the world wants to dothat.
I don't wanna feel that way.
(39:32):
I wanna feel in my comfort zone.
I think everybody does.
So if I think if people put alittle bit more thought into
that, how would you wanna feelif you were booking a service,
you know, or a vendor, how wouldyou wanna be feeling?
And then you should do that inyour business.
My opinion.
(39:53):
That's a mic drop moment rightthere, I feel.
Yeah.
Like that's so simple.
And I think that's somethingpeople don't think about.
But I, I will say I feel likethere's been somewhat of a kind
of shift over the last couple ofyears, um, in that like, I don't
(40:14):
know if it's just kind of comenaturally with like social media
and things, but people aremaking their businesses a lot
more personal.
You know, I think back in theday it was a lot more,
everything kind of had to feel.
Really professional and likeborderline, like stiff
sometimes.
And there's kind of has beenthis shift into we're gonna make
(40:37):
our businesses more personal andshare about us on the about page
and like all of those kinds ofthings.
And so I think with that shiftexactly like you were saying, it
should kind of feel like anatural shift into sharing.
Where you fall on things and howyou like care for people and all
of that too.
So yeah, really hoping that thatcan just sort of happen more and
(41:02):
more.
Yeah, I love that.
I love that it's becoming likethat as well.
I think it's, it makes it morefun.
I have realized as somebody who.
I felt this weird line of beinga total over sharer and also
very private.
I don't know, it's a weird worldto live in, but I just feel like
people like to know who we are.
(41:23):
The downside is I run a team, sothey don't always get to know
them.
They get to know me and they'relike, oh, Hannah sold me on this
idea, and then that's my job tomake sure my team is.
Same with that, same thing.
I, this is how I tell them, youknow, I said, you can believe
whatever you wanna believe.
That does not bother me in yourown head and your own heart and
your own home.
What you need to present andactively do is what I'm
(41:47):
presenting because that's what Isold them.
And that's extremely importantto me.
I mean, from a makeup artist,you have to know how to do all
skin colors, all of them.
And you have to be prepared inyour kit to do so, because I'm
not having the conversation oflike, oh, I left my Ebony kit at
home, what?
Why would you even say that?
That's a stupid thing to say outloud.
I cannot hang with that.
(42:09):
I just think do your job andshow up and do it.
My goodness.
And you look stupid.
That's so stupid that these arethings I do not allow on my
team.
It's you either come preparedfor all things that you don't
show up at all.
That's it.
Yes.
Wow.
You are amazing.
I appreciate you and.
(42:30):
The way you think.
So very much judgey and mildlyoffensive sometimes.
Hey, you know, I think, like youhave said, when we live in a
world that's so, it honestlystill is very focused on like
straight, cis, white,heteronormative people and
(42:51):
couples.
Like when that's.
Our majority and what we see issometimes like the feistiness
comes out a little bit whenyou're like trying to just be
like, those are not the onlypeople in the world that exist.
Yeah, yeah.
Or even like gender roles in asame sex couple people feel very
strongly that that has tohappen, and I know people
(43:13):
personally who feel like theywant gender specific roles in
their relationship with the samesex person.
I know they exist.
I just.
Get it.
Just try to break out a littlebit.
Try to understand that noteverything has to fit in this
tiny little box and just try.
You may not, you may havequestions and I love an educated
(43:34):
question.
I'm happy to answer anyquestions that you have and you
should do it in a safe space,not to the person you just met,
but to your friend that you knowcould have these answers and
could understand that you're notbeing offensive.
But to try to try is all thatyou need to be doing.
That's it.
That's the game.
And people are like, well, Ijust don't know.
I didn't grow up in that.
(43:54):
And I think, yes, I understand,but you need to put some effort
in, or you're gonna just stay inyour tiny little box and we're
gonna be sad for you.
Or we might not think about youat all either one.
Try to try.
That's that's the line of thisepisode.
Try to try folks.
Yes.
Oh my gosh, Hannah, you areseriously so amazing.
(44:17):
I.
I feel like everybody is justgonna learn from you so much.
Thank you.
But before we hop off, I wouldlove to learn just a little bit
more about you with just a fewfun questions.
Are you ready?
Yes.
Okay.
What's your favorite color ofthe rainbow?
(44:37):
Green.
Love it.
Me too.
Um, do you remember who or whatwas your gay awakening?
Uh, yes I do.
Um, her name is Molly.
We call her MA for short.
Um, we dated for over fouryears.
Wow.
(44:58):
Very nice.
Mm-hmm.
And if you, if someone was like,Hey, all responsibilities are
off your plate, you have atotally free day, what would be
your favorite way to spend it?
Uh, treat myself to brunchsomewhere good.
Probably do a walk around thelake.
Um, if it's nice out, iffarmer's market's an option,
(45:20):
then I'd probably do that.
Um, but lay around probablyoutside and then treat myself to
dinner at a bar where I can sitkind of by myself, but still
have mild interactions so I canget in my extroverted side, just
a little bit of exercise, um,and then go home and be sleeping
by nine 30.
Yes.
(45:41):
Wow.
Total Dream.
Yeah.
I love that.
Oh my gosh.
Well, thank you again so verymuch.
That was amazing.
Everybody needs to go check outPalindrome, hire them for your
wedding or Yeah, just check themout.
They're great.
Thank you so much.
Clearly.
Beloved, thank you so much forjoining us this week.
(46:04):
I hope you all are having agreat day, and I will see you
here next week.
All right, queer beloved,welcome back to this week's
episode.
My name is Ana, you, she herpronouns, and I have someone
super amazing with me heretoday.
Another internet friend turnedinto a super awesome connection,
so I'm really, really excitedand I would love to hand it over
(00:21):
to you, Hannah, to introduceyourself, your pronouns, and any
other identities you want toshare.
Hi.
Yes, thanks for having me.
Uh, my name's Hannah and I runPalindrome, which is a wedding
hair and makeup business.
My pronouns are she her.
Um, I'm a queer woman of colorin the business world, and I
(00:41):
just love to include everybodyinto everything.
Oh, I love that.
Right off the bat.
Yeah.
And what I was telling Hannahbefore we hopped on is I feel
like that's been such a rarething to find is someone who not
only is from the community, butis also like so openly wanting
(01:05):
to work with everyone andcelebrate everyone.
So, Ugh.
I'm just so excited to have youhere, and I would love to hear a
little bit more about like whatyou do, how you got started,
what you're passionate about.
I.
Yes.
Um, I've been doing it for 16years.
I went straight to beauty schoolfrom high school and then from
(01:29):
there I knew a lot of peoplethat were getting married young,
so I started doing weddingsright away in kind of a subpar
environment, is how I wouldexplain it.
I didn't know.
A lot of things and a lot ofthe, you know, disinfection, you
know, doing all that stuff anddisinfecting things and doing it
appropriately.
So I just kind of dove in andsaid, I can do this job.
(01:51):
And I sorted it out with acouple of my friends and then I
realized pretty quickly that Iwanted to be running a full
business.
Not only do I wanna run abusiness for myself, but I like
to run a business for others.
So I just.
It evolved, um, and we mademistakes and we learned a lot of
things and now we done it, do itin a like full fledged business
(02:13):
environment.
And then I really decided that Iwanted to be all inclusive.
Um, I set good boundaries.
I know what I need from thebrides or from the humans,
really.
Um, and I just throw that outthere and kind of throw the ball
in their court.
Uh, but then I like to announceto everybody where I stand on
(02:35):
all those opinions that peopledon't like to talk about.
I hate the fact that people ask,have to ask if we're queer
friendly, gay friendly, transfriendly, any of that.
I think it's ridiculous thatthat even has to be said out
loud.
So I want to announce it so thateverybody could feel comfortable
right away.
Um, and as a woman of color,that was another thing that I
also just found to be just yuck.
(02:58):
I just didn't like it.
It's not just for white people.
I just think that's ridiculous.
And so that was another thingthat I really wanted to gear my
business towards and kind of hitthis market of we love
everybody.
We want to accept everybody nomatter what.
And I say that too, on theopposite end of conservative
levels as well.
(03:18):
Like, if you love my businessand where I stand, then I'll
accept you too.
Um, I think there's that fineline of being too much on either
side, so I just try to be asopen to everybody as they wanna
be to me.
Um, and again, with boundaries.
Um, My passions are food.
Um, I should probably include mydaughter in there.
(03:42):
She's also a passion of mine,but passion's probably not the
exact right description for her.
Um, love her dearly, but food ismy hobby.
I get a lot of pushback onwhether or not food can be a
hobby.
It for all my time and my moneyand my thoughts go, I just, I'm
eating, you know, lunch,thinking about dinner.
(04:05):
I just love food and I'll.
I think that is truly the topicthat would take over most
conversations.
That's amazing.
Hey, you know, everybody's gottheir thing.
I think it can, you can havewhatever hobby you want.
Yeah.
Um, you being adult, I guess.
(04:26):
Yeah.
Wow.
That is, that is awesome thatyou have really found.
Your niche and, and kind ofpassion in what you do in that
regard too.
Um, and I think it's somethingthat's, so obviously like as
queer people, I think weunderstand there is always that
(04:47):
idea of like constantly comingout, right?
In like any setting, you know,kind of always have to make that
choice.
Right?
And I feel like hair is one ofthose things where.
I know, like when I've gotten tosee a new person, that's part of
the experience, right?
Is like chatting and they ask alot of questions, all the
(05:07):
things.
And it's kind of like in thatmoment, you know, they're asking
about your weekend and if youlive with someone and you kind
of have to like decide what am Igonna say here?
So to have, you know, someonelike you and your business that
are just putting it out therelike.
(05:28):
I know I appreciate that somuch, so I can imagine that so
many other people in thecommunity appreciate it a lot,
so thanks for doing that.
Yeah, it came from a probablyself-indulgent level.
I just got tired of theconversation and so I wanted to
let everybody know that this isgonna be a part of the
conversation and it's totallyfine if you don't have that same
(05:51):
life.
I just think.
That's the environment you'rewalking into with me.
Um, so if that makes youuncomfortable, then you probably
shouldn't sign up with me.
Yeah.
And when you kind of chose to dothat, to put it out there, put
it up front, did you see likeshifts in your business, whether
it was positively or negatively,or both?
(06:14):
Yes.
Absolutely.
And I knew that that wouldhappen.
Of course, that's gonna happen.
That's human nature.
Um, but I also knew.
I wanted the direction and thegive and take that would come
with it would be worth it at ahundred percent.
And it has been, um, the peoplewho didn't want to did not
continue.
And I think that's great.
And the people who were like, ohmy gosh, I didn't know that
(06:35):
about you, that makes me loveyou even more, then I think
that's great too.
So I think a lot of businesseskind of tend to stay pretty
neutral on like political levelsand things like that.
And I don't feel like I shoutfrom a rooftop of.
Political standpoints and thingslike that.
But you can guess where I standon the line.
And I think for me, I wannaattract the people that we're
(06:59):
gonna have the best time ever.
So if I don't really want it tobe a secret, and then all of a
sudden we're in a situation thatboth of us are kind of
uncomfortable with, so I wouldjust say, Hey, this is where I'm
at.
If that's not where you're at,then I think that's great, but
then you should probably findsomebody else because there's
like, do this job.
So you know, find somebody thatfits.
I think that's great.
(07:20):
And I see we have an, uh,surprise guest joining us here.
Yes, Alice.
She likes to be where the peopleare.
Oh, no, that's great.
Yeah, I mean, it sounds likeit's been best case scenario and
mutually beneficial on bothsides.
'cause that means like you don'thave to hide anything about you
(07:42):
either, which is like, who wantsto do that when they're.
Running their business.
Uh, exactly.
And you know, as somebody who'sgrown, grown up in a white
world, to me it just gets kindof boring to be offended all the
time.
And I just think, just see if ithave some culture and come with
it or find somebody else thatdoesn't.
(08:03):
And that's, that's the option.
But we don't, I don't feel likeI need to be forced into being
uncomfortable any longer.
I can just live the life I wannalive and move along.
I, I love that so much and Ithink you're making such a big
difference in the community.
So thank you again.
And I, yeah, I would love tochat a little bit about
(08:26):
weddings,'cause Yeah, that'swhat we chat about around here.
So as someone who does hair andmakeup, how do you see your role
in making sure that couples feelreally comfortable and safe on
their day?
Like presenting however it isthat they want to present?
Yeah, there's so much that is, Ithink, Required in a thought
(08:49):
process.
One of it is just beingprepared.
Being prepared for allsituations.
You never know what you'regetting into.
And for me, I know otherbusinesses in my same field do
it differently, and the way Irun it and the way I choose to
run it is just be prepared forall situations.
I don't ask ahead of time ofwhat's coming.
I love a heads up, you know,especially with pronouns because
(09:10):
it's always, you don't alwaysknow, and I would never wanna be
offensive.
So I think it's worth knowing,but, There's just so much of it
that you walk into not knowing.
So for us is hair and makeup.
It's being prepared for allthings, not just having kind of
a one size fits all.
Um, and I think it's reallyimportant.
I also think that, and I'vetrained my team on this, is to.
(09:32):
Just do your best to not beoffensive, you know?
And you can be offensive in anysituation.
Not intending to.
I've offended plenty of peopleby accident because I was trying
to kind of skirt the line,assuming some pronouns, you
know, and like staying safe onthat.
And then, you know, somebodyoffended and that kind of way.
And I just think there's thishuge.
(09:56):
To take responsibility and justsay, I am so sorry, that was not
intentional.
Um, let me make that correction,you know, and just own the truth
of the, sorry, you know,imperfect as well, so, To me, I
think that's a huge part of itas well.
It's a personal thing for me tojust take responsibility for
your actions as well.
I mean, I just think that's anappropriate adult thing to do in
(10:20):
life, but especially inbusiness, I think there's that
line of professionalism that youreally need to stay behind
securely.
And if you make a mistake, youmake a mistake, just own it and
move on, that's the best you cando.
So, um, I think it's also beingopen-minded to.
Just everything of like thesuggestions and the, you know,
(10:40):
it might not look how you feellike it should look.
The whole, you know, gettingready together, that happens in
heterosexual relationships aswell.
It's not a specifically gaything to do, and who cares.
I just think that I, I mean,there's so many things in rabbit
trails that could go on on thattopic, but I just think people
(11:02):
should get to do what they want.
Their day.
It's their day and they shouldget to do it whatever way makes
them feel best, and I supportthat.
Then it's just talking about thelogistics of how that can work
best for everybody involved.
Yeah, absolutely.
And I assume there has to be acertain level too, of kind of
(11:22):
coming in.
I think you already touched onit a little bit, but sort of
coming in without any.
Assumptions, right?
Like you're not coming in andbeing like, okay, well that's
kinda how they look.
And so I'm gonna ask them ifthey want this certain kind of
hairstyle that I usually seeother people that maybe look
(11:45):
similar, asking for it kind ofthing.
Like just kind of coming in withno assumptions and kind of just
going off of them.
Is that kind of part of yourpractice too?
Absolutely.
And I, my whole philosophy is,put your order in.
You can have whatever you want.
That does not matter to me.
You just gotta tell me the boxthat you wanna be in, and then
(12:06):
that's what I'm gonna give you.
And I've heard, again, it wasunintentional, but I've heard
several artists on my team, noton my team, you know, working
with other vendors that just saythings and they don't mean to,
but it's, you know, oh, you wantit to look glamorous?
And I thought, Why can't theylook glamorous?
If they wanna look glamorous, ifthey have short hair, that
doesn't mean anything.
You know?
And I understood how they gotthere, but I just think you
(12:29):
gotta try harder.
You gotta do your best to justlet them be as they wanna be.
It doesn't matter.
And what do you really care?
That's my opinion.
What do you care?
They can have whatever theywant.
I wanna have whatever I want.
Yes.
Right.
That's so true.
Like, and I'm so glad that youbrought that up because I've
(12:49):
seen that a lot too.
Um, you know, when I have twobrides, um, or, you know, even
maybe folks who are non-binary,like I've heard them multiple
times be like, oh, like the, youknow, something along the lines
of the hair and makeup peoplestarted packing up and I was
like, wait, no.
Like, I'm.
(13:10):
I'm getting my hair done too.
Like yeah.
That's just such a sad stigmathat I'm, I'm sad still exists,
but how do you kind of navigatethat, like around ideas like, oh
yeah.
On a wedding day, only onemember of the couple gets hair
and makeup or, or anything alongthose lines.
(13:34):
I.
I personally do my best to justask the questions ahead of time.
I mean, it's part of the jobthat I personally do for my
team, but just in life, I thinkjust ask, you know, are you
interested in doing hair andmakeup services?
And most of the time I know thatinformation walking into it, but
it's just never assuming.
And then two, taking.
(13:56):
Taking into account what they'retelling you.
You know, like, okay, I justwant you to feel in comfort
level.
So whatever that may be, whetherit's just a little bit or a lot
or middle ground, you can havewhatever you want.
And quite frankly, if it's worthit to you to be pampered in some
sort of way, then it's worth it.
Um, goes to, you know, men whowould like their makeup done.
(14:21):
I just think there's that wholething too, and I had to work
hard to change all my verbiageto be appropriate because
there's so many different typesof options and I don't think
that men should have to pay moreor less because they're a man or
they identify as a man or they,you know.
(14:42):
Same with all the things, all ofthe gen, all of it.
And I just think, let's justcall him human.
Everybody can just be, you know,and that's what it is.
And I get pushback on that quitea bit, especially from
heterosexual people who don'tunderstand why I would word it
that way.
And I just explain to them aspolitely as possible that, you
know, this is an all inclusive,like we want everybody to feel
(15:06):
comfortable.
So, and it honestly is anattraction point for my
particular business.
I get that all the time, andpeople appreciate it.
Because the people whoappreciate it appreciate it, you
know, and the people who don'tunderstand it have questions.
Um, and I think that's okay.
Yeah.
And honestly, I would love toknow, because we have both
(15:30):
couples and vendors who listenand, and so maybe for other
vendors or other, Artists outthere.
Practically speaking, what doyou mean when you say like,
changing your verbiage or likewhat your pricing looks like?
So for me, if I was shoppingaround for a hair and makeup
vendor for myself, I would beoffended if the contract wrote,
(15:55):
you know, read as bride name.
Um, Or bridal contract.
I don't think that it's justbrides that are signing these
contracts and to me it's just aclient.
So I try to make it as genderneutral as possible by saying,
you know, for my pricing, it'sall humans.
This age and older is this priceand this age and younger, or
(16:16):
this price, and it could beanybody who falls in those
categories.
Um, I simplified my menu, so forthat exact reason, just to say,
You know, this is what it isacross the board for whoever it
is that would like to receivethat service.
Um, client is also a word that Iuse as opposed to putting any
sort of gender attached to it.
(16:36):
Um, try to just keep it, again,really neutral, but also
explanatory so people canunderstand what they're signing
up for.
But it is my personal opinion inlife that more is more in
communication.
So I like to really.
Throw it at them and say,listen, if this is not a good
fit, this is what you'resigning.
(16:57):
So make sure you understand sothat you can, you know, and it
simplifies my life too, assomebody who has a high volume
level of contact with thewedding world, just based on my
team and, you know, experience,I suppose.
And even on like a totally.
Small scale hearing you saythat, I'm like, wow, I wish that
(17:17):
that would be a thing morewidespread.
'cause even um, my partner, shehas like very, very short hair.
Like presents very mask.
And like every time she gets herhair cut, they're essentially
speaking to her as if she was aman, but then still charging her
the extra cost of getting awoman's haircut.
(17:38):
Ugh.
I changed that too.
I said just it's haircut.
It's just a haircut.
So whoever you are, whateveryou're doing, that is what it
is.
Um, but that took me a while.
I mean, it took me to even like,put the work in to review my own
stuff.
It took me a minute to say, sitdown and say, Hey, let's do
(17:58):
this.
Like, let's focus and make surethat everything is as fluid as
possible.
But I hate that, that reallybums me out.
Um, I get really freaking madabout it.
This is how I feel about venueswho have bride getting ready
rooms and groom getting readyrooms.
And I think it's disgusting.
And then I also think it'sreally gross when they assign
(18:19):
who they think is the bride andgroom.
And I, I get really mad about itand I want to blacklist a lot of
those people.
Not that I get to choose thatfor my.
Weddings.
But sometimes I think aboutthat.
I'm like, if I was shoppingaround for that, I would say,
no, thank you.
That to me would be a red flagenough for me to be like, you do
(18:39):
not get my money.
Thank you.
Yes.
A million times.
Yes.
Um, I just did an interview witha venue space and that's
something we talked about a lotbecause it's like, yeah, it
sucks.
Like, you know, even thinkingabout with my partner in the
future, It's not like one of uswants to be in a nice space and
(19:01):
one of us wants to be stuck withlike a deer head and a pool
table.
Like it, it just is like theplaces that have figured it out
and kind of just been like, youknow, you both deserve like a
nice space and they don't haveto be like polar opposites of
each other.
Um, and like the amount ofcouples I've worked with who.
(19:23):
Yeah, in those examples,sometimes one of them will just
end up, you know, getting readyin the hotel room or something
because it's just like, that'sso sad.
Like no one wants to feel likethey have to be a man to be
getting ready, you know?
It's just Exactly.
I also leave space to try tounderstand that some of these
are kind of historic venues andhaven't quite done the work to
(19:47):
get up to the times, and I canunderstand how.
That can be a thing.
They deserve some grace to likeget up because, you know,
running a business is a wholejob, so it's, I get it.
Come up to speed, I think thenyou just have to compensate
accordingly.
And the tours and the, you know,the information being presented
of like, no, no, we're stillsuper friendly.
(20:09):
We just haven't quite gottenthere all the way yet.
And to me that's enough.
I'll accept that.
Like as long as you'reacknowledging the fact that
you're not doing it.
Wonderfully.
I can move on.
Right.
Yeah, I love that.
Always leaving room for sure.
Um, I'm glad you brought this upthough, because I also kind of
(20:29):
wanted to discuss sometimeswithin the community there are
couples who actually wanna getready together.
Um, I think that's something Isee.
Quite frequently or hear from myown couples of just like, well,
we're like each other's bestfriends.
You know?
Like, why wouldn't we wanna gettogether or get, get ready
together?
(20:49):
Um, and I think I've heard ahandful of them get some
pushback from, you know,whoever's giving the tour or
whatever.
Like, what, why would you getready together?
Like, how are you gonna, isthat, you know, that kind of
thing.
So how would you respond?
To that, it's a tough topic forme because I don't understand
(21:12):
why it matters, and to me, thosepeople who say that response out
loud are so crunchy that I justthink, okay, you're stale.
You're a stale experience of ahuman, and I'm embarrassed for
you that you are this kind ofway because you're pushing your
agenda into me and I'm trying togive you quite a bit of money.
So what do you actually care?
(21:35):
It literally doesn't matter.
And again, They do that morewith same sex couples, but I
know I have plenty ofheterosexual couples that get
ready in the same space, andthen they sometimes have a
moment where they're like, okay,I'm fully getting ready now.
Maybe you don't look at me thismoment, but like I've had it
all.
(21:55):
And I just think, why was thatEven your job to comment on my
life is not to be commented onby you.
I don't comment on your life.
So I, I don't to, I just getreally worked up about it.
'cause I think that's stupid.
I also think that the, thebusinesses as a whole should be
addressing that to their people.
(22:16):
And again, some things just slipout.
I get that.
I understand from my own teamthat some people just don't.
They don't know and they wannaknow, but they haven't done a
lot of work to know.
And I think that they, they dotheir best in that capacity.
But then in those moments whenyou can see that it's been
offensive in some sort of way,it's just take ownership of
like, oh, I'm so sorry, I, Ijust didn't quite understand.
(22:39):
Or Do you mind educating me onthat?
In my opinion as a human, Ithink that to me, that safe
space, I might not still bookwith you, but at least you
tried, but.
I've had plenty of experienceswhere people are just rude.
I mean, I got married once, I'mno longer married, but dress
(22:59):
shopping was a nightmare and itwas terrible and it was, some
person said to me, Ugh, we don'tmake wedding dresses and
children's sizes.
I thought, I'm just like apetite Asian woman.
I'm just like a regular size.
I'm not even like unusuallyshort or, it was super bizarre
and I thought, okay, well shouldI just leave then?
Should I continue?
Or like, are you gonna show menothing to me?
(23:22):
That's just a wild thing to sayout loud.
Why would you say that?
And it was, I had a nightmare ofa time.
And then the last place out ofseven that I went to was finally
wonderful.
They understood the assignment,they heard what I had to say.
They didn't waste my time, youknow?
And it was just like amazing.
And I think.
That's the training there in allof wedding vendor life to just
(23:46):
do your best.
I also think some people havespecific agendas that they would
like to get across.
I know I do, which is why Iwould like to be things.
Um, but I just think there's theopposite side of that people,
and then they should find theirown people.
Um, so do what you want, youknow, in your own business.
(24:07):
That's the right.
Yes.
I'm hearing, I think I'm hearinga lot of themes of sort of like,
just keep it to yourself ingeneral.
Like why are you, but then it'skind of like a double-edged
sword, right?
Like I've, I've talked to thiswith some folks where it's like,
yeah, that sucks.
Like, why would you say that?
And at the same time, there aremoments of like, But at least I
(24:32):
know now.
You know what I mean?
Like, because you said that,that revealed something to me
about who you are and I mightnot have known otherwise and
like maybe found that out later,like on my wedding day, which
would suck worse.
You know what I mean?
So it's kind of like a weird.
(24:52):
Absolutely.
And again, I put myself in thisside of the line, but I do try
to save space for those thatwanna stay on the other side of
the line.
There are a lot of people whowould love that and they should
have their people as well.
And so I do try to, I, I say allinclusive because I think I
would like to include everybody,including the people I disagree
(25:13):
with, and that.
I think that that's an easything to do, to be just offended
constantly.
And again, I've offended plentyof people.
I've offended plenty of peoplein the queer community, uh, by
accident, and I thought, that'syour opinion, and I didn't know
that.
And how would I know that, thatthat would be somehow offensive
to you?
When I'm sitting here at Pridetrying to present myself as
(25:34):
like, I'm here to supporteverybody.
And you know, I've had somepushback on things that I just
thought, oh, I'm sorry, I didn'tknow.
And then to me, all I can do atthat point is say, sorry, I
didn't know.
Thank you so much for educatingme.
I'm gonna take that note and,you know, adjust further.
But there's a lot of that too, Ithink in vendors.
Uh, you know, you as thebusiness owner can.
(25:58):
Present a certain way and thenyour team doesn't, and how are
they gonna manage that?
Or they didn't know, they didn'thave all the education you do on
the topic.
So I just try to leave space.
And you're right, I do think,uh, keep it to yourself moment
as somebody who suffers stronglyfrom R B F, I think.
There's that time where it'slike, just say face as best as
(26:18):
you can, try to look pleasantand move along.
And then you process that in thecar on the way home, you know?
Oh my gosh.
Yeah.
No, I, I really appreciate thatand I, I appreciate you saying
that as well too.
'cause I think, um, it's, it'skind of a common theme or
something I've mentioned severaltimes on this podcast of.
(26:41):
I think a lot of people comeinto this space still with kind
of that like nervous energy oflike, oh my gosh, like what if I
mess up?
And like, there's so many thingsto learn and nah, like, it's so
complicated.
And it's one of those thingswhere it's like, I, I understand
it feels that way, but also it'slike really not once you kind of
(27:01):
start like practicing it.
And at the same time, I lovethat you've said that because
that's all you can do is justlike acknowledge and move on
like.
I am still learning all the timetoo, and like I'm in the
community.
Like, it's just, I, I reallyappreciate you bringing up that
theme and kind of remindingeverybody that we're just trying
(27:22):
to do our best.
That's what I think.
I, I'm an adopted human that hasgrown up in a white world, so
I've gotten lots of offensivecomments my whole life, and my
mom used to say, tell me, youcan choose to be offended or you
can choose to educate them.
That's how I've practicedeverything.
When people ask me a stupidquestion or, you know, not a
(27:43):
correct way to ask me, and Iknow what they're trying to ask
me.
I have a choice every singletime.
What am I gonna do?
And I found in my life it is notworth my energy, my personal
energy that, that I carry withme per day.
You know, it's not worth that toalways be offended.
Sometimes it's just worth it tobe like they didn't mean it like
that.
(28:03):
That's not what they meant.
And then sometimes I go in hardand I'm like, that's rude.
That's not a correct way to askthat question.
If you'd like to know theanswer, you're gonna have to
figure that out.
Google's a really good sourcefor how to figure that out, you
know, and I'll just fight back.
But it's not always worth theenergy to be combative like
that.
I don't think I have a lot ofother uses for this energy that
(28:24):
I get per day.
And, uh, I gotta manage itappropriately.
Yeah.
For sure.
I agree.
But for those who are interestedin doing better, um, and those
who are interested in kind ofbeing on the lookout for the
(28:44):
people who are doing better, um,as couples are kind of looking
for someone for their weddingday, is, is there anything that
they should look for, um, interms of red flags or be
cautious of, um, or even just.
Looking to see like, are theytrying at least?
(29:06):
Yeah, I think there's so manyanswers that I could come up
with for this.
Again, based on my own personalopinions, but also the opinions
of others that I know.
Um, I think a pride flag goes along way in a website, on an
Instagram, you know, things likethat.
I try to personally represent.
(29:26):
All as much as possible on myInstagram.
Like if I can get anythingthat's like atypical in a good
photo, I'm gonna post it and I'mgonna post it often because to
me it's worth just having therepresentation available.
Um, and I think that.
People can sort that out prettyquickly.
(29:47):
It's when it's a little bit graythat it's harder to, I mean, I,
again, I look for same-sexcouples when I'm shopping around
for any vendor.
Um, I do my homework too on, youknow, what does your contract
say?
If I can view that, uh, ahead oftime or even the contact form of
how to get ahold of the person.
(30:07):
Um, I look at that as well,because when it's very gender
specific, it tells me that maybethat.
Not a direction you're going.
And I could be wrong, I getfairly judgy about it for my own
personal use, but I stand in therealm of, I could be wrong and I
hope that I am, but there's alot of little things that give
(30:30):
me clues.
And this could border onoffensive.
But if they're very, if theylove Jesus very much, they
probably don't love that I'mbisexual.
So I don't typically entertainthat type of vendor.
Again, I know lots of people wholove Jesus and are still very
(30:53):
progressive, but when I'mshopping around, that is a thing
that I'm like, Ooh, to me it's ared flag.
And I don't know that Inecessarily wanna take the time
to figure out if it isn't,because there are so many other
options.
But if I was really sold on thatperson and really wanted that
and I was like, oh, they wouldbe my first choice, I just wish,
(31:13):
you know, I would maybe put somemore work into it.
But otherwise, no, I that, Ithink pronouns are also a good
use of.
Research, do they have an optionto, for me to tell them my
pronouns or do they not?
Um, some people will write that.
I've seen that before.
You know, if you have specificpronouns, then you're not, for
(31:37):
us, it wasn't written exactlylike that, but that's what they
were saying.
And I thought good informationto have.
Um, I guess I'm glad that I'mnot wasting my time.
Also wildly inappropriate, butokay, you live in that space.
Good for you, I suppose.
I don't know, but yeah.
(31:57):
And then too, like bride groomspecific, I think all gender
specific things.
Mm-hmm.
Now, again, I understand thewhole bathroom thing is a tough
one because, and to me it'slower on the list of judgments
for spaces.
But yeah, I like to look at theteam as well.
(32:20):
Whoever's running the, you know,the team and the environment
that I'd be walking into.
Yeah, those are my personalopinions on those topics.
Yes, absolutely.
And I mean, you are like, foreveryone listening, you should
definitely go check out herwebsite'cause you are like
living proof of a lot of thethings you just said, like
(32:40):
literally.
The first image on your homepageis someone who is not a young
client, like they are an olderclient.
And I think even that is justlike right off the bat, like,
wow, that is so cool.
And that tells me that you'renot just doing what everybody
else is doing.
I think too, to all the thingsyou touched on, it is again like
(33:04):
room for grace in learning, but.
Some of those things, like yousaid, like having something on
your contact form that just sayspartner A and partner B or
something to that extent, likethat literally would take you 30
seconds.
So it is some of those thingswhere it's like, yeah, I can
(33:26):
understand the bathrooms.
Actually, just yesterday when Iwas uh, talking to the venue
owners, they said to put like, Agender neutral, like single cell
bathroom in their space, itwould cost over a hundred
thousand dollars to do that.
So yeah, of course there arethings where it's like, but 30
(33:48):
seconds to make a change on yourwebsite is everything.
So yeah, thank you for thatcompliment.
I worked really hard on thatwebsite because, I think
websites are so important and Iwanted instantly it to be a
vibe.
I just wanted people to knowright away without even having
(34:09):
to read anything further, thatwe are atypical, we are
accepting of everybody.
And this is, you know, and Ithink as somebody who shopped
websites, I love onlineshopping, but I just think you
can kind of instantly get that.
It's either stiff and subpar andyou didn't quite spend enough
time or money on it and youknow, it still could be good
information, but I'm probablynot looking any further.
(34:31):
To me, I just wanted it to bepopping in that like, this is
what I want you to know rightaway.
My bottom footer picture is, uh,he identifies male, um, in a
bright pink red heels.
This is a photo shoot.
Yeah.
Put together, but together.
(34:51):
He was so awesome.
And I was like, you're going onthere because this instantly
tells you everything you need toknow about my business.
And to me that is exactly thepoint of a website.
Yes, absolutely.
I try to always share the samething with, with vendors too,
and, and also to be, like yousaid, sharing those things
constantly and not just in likeJune or something like that.
(35:14):
So, Which you very obviously do,so that's amazing.
Thank you.
Um, as someone who obviously iskind of in the hair and makeup
world, you probably are, youknow, have other people in your
network and kind of hear what'shappening.
What do you think needs tochange and where do you hope to
(35:38):
kind of see your industry gomoving forward?
Yeah.
Um, there's so many of us,there's so many hair and makeup
vendors and everybody doesthings differently.
I think there's a true beauty tothat.
Just even not even beingpolitical or accepting or any of
(36:01):
that, those things, it's how dothey run their business?
What works best for you Is thebooking human that you know, do
you wanna have to pay six monthsin advance?
Do you wanna lock those numbersin?
Do you wanna, you know?
So I think there's a beauty inthat of being able to shop
around to find the perfect fit.
(36:21):
It's also overwhelming becauseyou have to shop around to find
the perfect fit.
So it's my personal opinion thatall hair and makeup vendors
should be.
Queer friendly.
Um, to me it's, it's a nobrainer.
Same sex couples have biggerbridal parties, which gets you
(36:43):
more money.
That, duh.
What, what do you care?
What do you, this is a business.
What do you mean?
So I've had, somebody told, toldme once, she said, although I
don't disagree with thatlifestyle, I would never treat
anybody differently, but I don'tfeel comfortable doing this
shoot.
And I thought, yeah, that'scalled treating somebody
differently.
That's literally the definition.
(37:05):
Um, sorry that you're only like20 and you can't figure that out
yet.
But I'm gonna let you knowbecause it's so disrespectful.
And I don't know how else shecould have said it any
differently to me, to be honest.
I don't know.
But I was like, that's just astupid thing to say out loud
because you're literallycontradicting yourself.
But, so I think all those thingsneed to change as well.
(37:25):
I, I personally think that itwould be nice if people rode the
political lines a little harder.
Um, I understand why they don't,but to me, that tells me a lot
that I need to know.
Um, this is how I would equateto a dating world as well.
Anything in online dating?
Like, can you just let me knowup front?
Can I figure, you know, can yousend me like a Google doc of
(37:45):
questions of what you'd beinterested in knowing so I can
know ahead of time as well?
Uh, that's how I would feelabout vendors too.
Like, can I just know a littlebit more information and.
You know that, I think thatthere's a huge thing too, of
being upfront.
Again, this is my personalopinion as somebody who likes to
shop this way, but I don'talways wanna contact you to get
(38:06):
information that I, that doesn'twork for me.
That feels like a poor use of mytimes.
And I also think websites aremeant to work for the business.
So if you just curate yourwebsite to give the information
as much as possible, knowingthat, you know, that might not
be the exact price for yoursituation or anything, but like
give me a ballpark so I canunderstand if it's even worth my
(38:27):
time to contact you.
Um, and then on the flip sidetoo, of, you know, people
shopping, I think read thewebsite.
That's what it's there for, isit gives you a lot of
information in my personalwebsite.
It's very informational becauseI like people to do their
homework ahead of time so that,you know, again, we're all using
our time appropriately.
Um, that's also the type ofperson I would like to be
(38:49):
attracting, so it's partiallywhy I curated it that way.
But I also think for hair andmakeup specific vendors come
prepared, please.
Don't have a one size fits allbridesmaid hairstyle that you
can do.
Please be creative and givethese people some other ideas
(39:11):
that's part of the job, anddon't force your agenda.
If they're saying, I really onlywanna have my skin tone even,
and maybe some mascara, let themhave it.
Just let them have it.
Don't try to twist their arminto being something that
they're not or that they don'tfeel comfortable in because
nobody in the world wants to dothat.
I don't wanna feel that way.
(39:32):
I wanna feel in my comfort zone.
I think everybody does.
So if I think if people put alittle bit more thought into
that, how would you wanna feelif you were booking a service,
you know, or a vendor, how wouldyou wanna be feeling?
And then you should do that inyour business.
My opinion.
(39:53):
That's a mic drop moment rightthere, I feel.
Yeah.
Like that's so simple.
And I think that's somethingpeople don't think about.
But I, I will say I feel likethere's been somewhat of a kind
of shift over the last couple ofyears, um, in that like, I don't
(40:14):
know if it's just kind of comenaturally with like social media
and things, but people aremaking their businesses a lot
more personal.
You know, I think back in theday it was a lot more,
everything kind of had to feel.
Really professional and likeborderline, like stiff
sometimes.
And there's kind of has beenthis shift into we're gonna make
(40:37):
our businesses more personal andshare about us on the about page
and like all of those kinds ofthings.
And so I think with that shiftexactly like you were saying, it
should kind of feel like anatural shift into sharing.
Where you fall on things and howyou like care for people and all
of that too.
So yeah, really hoping that thatcan just sort of happen more and
(41:02):
more.
Yeah, I love that.
I love that it's becoming likethat as well.
I think it's, it makes it morefun.
I have realized as somebody who.
I felt this weird line of beinga total over sharer and also
very private.
I don't know, it's a weird worldto live in, but I just feel like
people like to know who we are.
(41:23):
The downside is I run a team, sothey don't always get to know
them.
They get to know me and they'relike, oh, Hannah sold me on this
idea, and then that's my job tomake sure my team is.
Same with that, same thing.
I, this is how I tell them, youknow, I said, you can believe
whatever you wanna believe.
That does not bother me in yourown head and your own heart and
your own home.
What you need to present andactively do is what I'm
(41:47):
presenting because that's what Isold them.
And that's extremely importantto me.
I mean, from a makeup artist,you have to know how to do all
skin colors, all of them.
And you have to be prepared inyour kit to do so, because I'm
not having the conversation oflike, oh, I left my Ebony kit at
home, what?
Why would you even say that?
That's a stupid thing to say outloud.
I cannot hang with that.
(42:09):
I just think do your job andshow up and do it.
My goodness.
And you look stupid.
That's so stupid that these arethings I do not allow on my
team.
It's you either come preparedfor all things that you don't
show up at all.
That's it.
Yes.
Wow.
You are amazing.
I appreciate you and.
(42:30):
The way you think.
So very much judgey and mildlyoffensive sometimes.
Hey, you know, I think, like youhave said, when we live in a
world that's so, it honestlystill is very focused on like
straight, cis, white,heteronormative people and
(42:51):
couples.
Like when that's.
Our majority and what we see issometimes like the feistiness
comes out a little bit whenyou're like trying to just be
like, those are not the onlypeople in the world that exist.
Yeah, yeah.
Or even like gender roles in asame sex couple people feel very
strongly that that has tohappen, and I know people
(43:13):
personally who feel like theywant gender specific roles in
their relationship with the samesex person.
I know they exist.
I just.
Get it.
Just try to break out a littlebit.
Try to understand that noteverything has to fit in this
tiny little box and just try.
You may not, you may havequestions and I love an educated
(43:34):
question.
I'm happy to answer anyquestions that you have and you
should do it in a safe space,not to the person you just met,
but to your friend that you knowcould have these answers and
could understand that you're notbeing offensive.
But to try to try is all thatyou need to be doing.
That's it.
That's the game.
And people are like, well, Ijust don't know.
I didn't grow up in that.
(43:54):
And I think, yes, I understand,but you need to put some effort
in, or you're gonna just stay inyour tiny little box and we're
gonna be sad for you.
Or we might not think about youat all either one.
Try to try.
That's that's the line of thisepisode.
Try to try folks.
Yes.
Oh my gosh, Hannah, you areseriously so amazing.
(44:17):
I.
I feel like everybody is justgonna learn from you so much.
Thank you.
But before we hop off, I wouldlove to learn just a little bit
more about you with just a fewfun questions.
Are you ready?
Yes.
Okay.
What's your favorite color ofthe rainbow?
(44:37):
Green.
Love it.
Me too.
Um, do you remember who or whatwas your gay awakening?
Uh, yes I do.
Um, her name is Molly.
We call her MA for short.
Um, we dated for over fouryears.
Wow.
(44:58):
Very nice.
Mm-hmm.
And if you, if someone was like,Hey, all responsibilities are
off your plate, you have atotally free day, what would be
your favorite way to spend it?
Uh, treat myself to brunchsomewhere good.
Probably do a walk around thelake.
Um, if it's nice out, iffarmer's market's an option,
(45:20):
then I'd probably do that.
Um, but lay around probablyoutside and then treat myself to
dinner at a bar where I can sitkind of by myself, but still
have mild interactions so I canget in my extroverted side, just
a little bit of exercise, um,and then go home and be sleeping
by nine 30.
Yes.
(45:41):
Wow.
Total Dream.
Yeah.
I love that.
Oh my gosh.
Well, thank you again so verymuch.
That was amazing.
Everybody needs to go check outPalindrome, hire them for your
wedding or Yeah, just check themout.
They're great.
Thank you so much.
Clearly.
Beloved, thank you so much forjoining us this week.
(46:04):
I hope you all are having agreat day, and I will see you
here next week.
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