Rap Radar: Joe Budden

Joe Budden is a podcasting pioneer. Back in 2015, he became one of the first rappers to launch a podcast. Now, nearly a decade later, the Joe Budden Podcast has expanded with a new cast, including video vixen, Melyssa Ford. With his rapping days behind him and burgeoning network, Joe makes his return to discuss the business of podcasting, Complex's media list, foiled deals, musical legacy, and much more. #JoeBudden #JoeBuddenPodcast #JBP #Complex, #Spotify See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Yeah, rap rate our podcast, Elliott Wilson beat out you
know what's up baby?

Speaker 2 (00:05):
And my best Joe Butden voice salutation. We got violence
on this show. But I can't believe it, man, I
can't believe it. It's just so so crazy. The game's
ben are these podcasts is harder than the rappers right now?
This podcaster is It might be this is like our
second time talking to Joe and what like six years.
Maybe it's been a while.

Speaker 1 (00:24):
It's been a while, man, But before that, man, I
wanted to get your tape first of all, with the
Taler thing when he's talking about lists and stuff, people
saying maybe beat out man, was he offended when Tyler
was breaking down our list are important in the list
and the rankings and all that.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
Standing next to the list man, how did the list
man feel? Man beat out man? Now, I agree with
them to some point. I think that you can't refute
someone's favorite. But my list is always reflective on the best,
so I think it's a little bit different. But you know,
I think Tyler had some good God had some good
points in our conversation. Yeah, some people grab into it.

Speaker 1 (00:56):
I think he's basically saying, like you know a lot
of times, you know, I think that it's like, do
you think that's still like that hip hop purist thing
where people feel like, well, they have to say that
they like something even though it may not be the
something that connected to right, Like, they don't want to
admit they like something that looks like it's not a
hip hop purist. I don't love Illmatic. I love it
was written more like I remember that whole divide with
the audience, right Like, yeah, absolutely. I feel like with Tyler,

(01:17):
he was trying to say, is that younger hip hop
fans shouldn't feel obligated to say Illmatic or Ready to
Die is their favorite album of all time and if
it is cool, but don't feel like you have to
say that.

Speaker 2 (01:29):
To feel validated, you know. And I think that leaders
in hip hop we got to represent today's music. Man.
I saw this thing.

Speaker 1 (01:35):
If you saw a billboard was reporting that like this,
you know, with the midpoint. Now we're in June, and
like there's been no number one hip hop single, hot
one hundred hip hop single, and no number one hip
hop album.

Speaker 2 (01:46):
Man, so are we in trouble? Beat? That bez? What's
the state of the culture, Man, we're in trouble. Ben
about to put my resume on LinkedIn. Man, No, I
think we're okay. Like I feel like kind of what
Tyler was saying about the numbers and the metrics Ander
that you know, if you let that tell it, we
don't have any good music. I just think that there
isn't There hasn't been a release from a blockbuster artist

(02:07):
this year so far. But there have been good releases
from Larry June, Alchemists, Jack hollow Man, the guys be
Fasto for a Tyler Jack follow They put out their products,
you know, Jermaine Duprix, I mean those really good projects
they mean this year. So they might not necessarily hit
number one on the Billboard charts, but hey, they're number

(02:27):
one in my in my call right now.

Speaker 1 (02:29):
And we know beat outs already craft in that list, Man,
be telling that you start that list every day.

Speaker 2 (02:34):
The list has worked on right, It has been working
on it since January first, twenty twenty three. Man, So
probably by the time this comes out, I think I
should be having a half year mark.

Speaker 1 (02:44):
Well you do, do you do the halfway thing to
just stir it up already?

Speaker 2 (02:47):
Right? Oh my god, I can't wait you gotta take
the temperature. Man.

Speaker 1 (02:52):
Well, last time they gave a list many to this
media lists Man, this guy, I guess today was number
one at the top of the list. Man, it's Joe
Butdy guy. Man, the media done, Joe Budden, the Podfather.

Speaker 2 (03:03):
Believe we had the Podfather and the rapperrate or podcasts
beat up. What was that like for you? Man, Yo said,
we just gonna interview our peers, our colleagues. It was.
It was a little bit different this time around because
last time we talked, he had an album out, and
you know, we were talking about the music. But this
time we were just talking about his career, you know,
his deals, everything he has going on, you know, on
the podcast Runt. So it was a little bit different,

(03:25):
but it was always enjoyable talking to Joe.

Speaker 1 (03:26):
And he got personal with me. Man, he was giving
me shit about some of our history together. Was supposed
to be doing the Everyday Struggle show. I passed on
that academics was born. I'm sorry, beat that Academics was
born and hip hoped media change man.

Speaker 2 (03:41):
You know, it's it's it's crazy to see Guy's growth. Man.

Speaker 1 (03:44):
I definitely feel like I was definitely just some small
part of like this sort of resurgence and stuff.

Speaker 2 (03:50):
But you know he's dedicated to it. Man.

Speaker 1 (03:51):
It's amazing how he continues to like, you know, develop
that show with different challenges and now he's made it
kind of like a big ensemble cast of like six
that's a lot of people talking on the mic.

Speaker 2 (04:01):
Man, we can barely deal with each other. Man, how
you imagine the four other people? Yeah, Man, you got
Melissa for there. That's a nice candy situation. I see
your vision, Joe, he.

Speaker 1 (04:15):
Ain't los what you say about Saint Lo and the
flip Man Flip from your reck of the wood Man
Quise flip Man wild Wood south Side.

Speaker 2 (04:23):
Yeah, everyone's doing it thing, man. So you know Joe Budden,
you know you can't count him out. And I think
his resilience is a testament to that. Absolutely. Man. We
honored to have him on the show. Man.

Speaker 1 (04:33):
Hopefully, hopefully, Man, we get some of them crazy Joe
budd fans. Listen to the rap podcast. That's what you
want to do, the big business Shire audiences beat out,
that's what the bitnest people love.

Speaker 2 (04:41):
Man.

Speaker 1 (04:41):
The suits an interval, that's what they want with the
worlds to collide man, the audio consumption sharing is carried.

Speaker 2 (04:50):
Well, we hope you look joy this man sharing this
carry man and rapper to do it.

Speaker 1 (04:54):
Man, how we're going to go right to our fellow podcasts. Man,
this is a good one, man, this is rap right
off and the boy Joe.

Speaker 2 (05:00):
Button, Yeah yeah, rapper up podcast.

Speaker 1 (05:03):
Elliott Wilsons beat out that what's up baby filing with.

Speaker 2 (05:06):
The podfather today, Man, Joseph Joseph Anthony Button, My good guys, right,
oh my god.

Speaker 1 (05:12):
Even rapp podcast since he was a rapper right years
about had a small little yeah. Wow, it wasn't even
the last album was like the seconds last album, yall
not inviting.

Speaker 2 (05:26):
Since then, a lot has changed, man, thank god, thank god.

Speaker 1 (05:31):
How does the Philip be number one on the comedic?
Ain't getting me on top of the top of the
he ain't get him all the complex about it. I
have no idea that the list has caused me nothing
but harm and pain.

Speaker 2 (05:46):
You took that personal, though, Elliott, that I didn't think
that was you took he was. I don't know why either.
I was like, why do you care about this? I
was you the last nigga that you get. Yeah, there's
a few names on that list that y'all shouldn't kis
sway you and like this applies for us, the messy niggas,

(06:12):
This niggas with journalistic integrity. This ain't for journalistic integrity. Yo. Yeah,
they don't start posting this. But I pushed back, there's
integrity to what you do, Joe.

Speaker 1 (06:24):
I think the way you conduct your pot and your
like you you go off the rails, but there is
a certain That's why I think people mess with you
that there there is an integrity. They feel like you're
not bullshitting and that's well, that's what you feel.

Speaker 2 (06:37):
I try to go about it with some integrity. Yeah.
I think a lot of times that you may see
that because you know the business, but I don't think
the fans or onlookers do it that way. Well, they
enjoy the entertainment.

Speaker 1 (06:51):
And also you have to touch on the DELI like,
I don't know how you do it like me and
be do talk about it sometimes like what we do.

Speaker 2 (06:56):
Obviously this is more of an interview show.

Speaker 1 (06:58):
I just understand what's your on, Like how do you
get motivated to like sort of just take these hot
topics and you know, be able to riff with your
codes on it, like what, what's what's the what's your
approach to that? And like why does it stay fresh
to you to be able to do that.

Speaker 2 (07:11):
When you got to find fresh ways to do it,
I guess, And I'm really passionate about it. I know
that sounds cliche, but I enjoy getting up and cracking
this thing and just sharing opinions, just shooting the ship.
I could. I kind of rather not speak about the
hot topics. I rather speak about conversations that black men

(07:34):
are going through friend groups, are going through women's sports.
I want to kick about just like cool shit. If
I can never discuss the hip hop shit, really I
don't feel better or like the important shit and hip hop.
I mean, that's a hip hop that's in my core,
but like the real shit, not the oh it's drill,
oh it's top five, give a fucking yeah, not that.

Speaker 1 (07:53):
Not that I wake up at the time of this
and Cam's mad at me and we're going back and
forth for whatever, like that kind of fool But that's exactly.

Speaker 2 (08:01):
Kind of the point, Like that, like you fifty, I'll
be forty three. I was listening shit in ninety seven,
Like that's not where I want to be now, Like
when you hit me today and say where you at?
Drop your location? Like I look at you like you're stupid,
Like do you think I'm out of here doing hostings?

(08:22):
You think I'm outady? That applies for the niggas that's
got to move around and get money and feel safe
and be comfortable. That's not where I'm mad. Niggas got
to speak to me differently, get mad up here. But
do you still enjoy the music?

Speaker 3 (08:36):
Well, I guess you're an ex rapper at this point,
but do you have that same passion for podcasting as
you did for the music.

Speaker 2 (08:44):
I would say more today, like it's what, it's what,
it's what consumes my mind on a daily basis. Music
was great, but I wasn't. I wasn't. I was never
in a situation where I was able to really reap
what I thought my talent could guarder me. So that
kind of made it sad. Once you get out of

(09:04):
all those bad contracts and this deal and that publishing
and this production company, once you get away from all
that and finally start finding some footing, yeah, this shit
could get fun. This is fun now today it's my kids,
it's my parents and family it's my girl, it's my friends,
and it's me just trying to further myself and prepare

(09:25):
life for my fifties. That's how I ended up in
this spot at forty two. I was thirty five, fucked
up picture in forties like, Eh, no, this can't go
out right, it can't go that way, Gotta go, gotta
go another route. I saw in a previous interview you said,
at some point you want to get off the couch. Yeah,
I want to get off the couch at some point
or in less of a capacity. But that's no time soon, right,

(09:49):
that's no time.

Speaker 1 (09:49):
So but you did make major change to the pot
of like simple say like positive and negative always Joe
turned it into a morning show, right, Like there's more characters,
some more of a ensemble cast, like expanded it, Like
why was that a decision?

Speaker 2 (10:03):
The right decision? Watched the game table And I know
my friends, I know iceing Ish for over fifteen years.
They really came in the time of need for me
and really kind of acted as my my life best
while I was figuring it out. And I'm fever grateful
to them for that. But in the content space, my

(10:25):
views of how it should go versus ice and issue
are grown adult just were not thinking about nothing. All right,
let's spice this. I want to spice it up up.
So yeah and oftent times, right, like I've been talking
to my friend's iceing ish for having many years. So
now we're on the mic. How they respond to me

(10:45):
and react to me? Is that flip different, beautiful Melissa,
it's different, different energy going again, it's different energy. If
you're doing the chemistry test, you need to throw some
different ship out there. And it his work beyond beyond imagination.

(11:09):
A lot of it was kind of like on the
job training, right.

Speaker 3 (11:11):
I mean they're not broadcaster, so it's like, did you
have to feel like you needed to develop them?

Speaker 2 (11:16):
They were learning, They were learning in the real time, right,
They definitely were learning real They didn't have the grace
of they got thrown in the fire. So yeah, I
was developing or I felt like I needed to try to,
but we needed to produce fast as well. It was
a hungry audience and a vocal audience, and people don't

(11:36):
like change. So they see two new guys here, it's like,
are these guys the fun? Do I want to listen
to them? For? Right? So?

Speaker 1 (11:44):
But to bring a strong force like Flip out the
gate to it. That was did it feel it all
risky too? Well not to me, because I've known Flip
for a billion year. See, I can't do this with
somebody I don't know.

Speaker 2 (11:56):
I can't just have an audition and he wants to
be I can't do that. Well. We find academics the
great academic. Yeah, yeah, but act was an entity right
on his own. He wasn't just like a guy in
the street. Complex wouldn't have brought him in if he

(12:18):
was from the street. You haven't think about that every day, struggle. Yeah, yeah,
I wondered for the work or not. He's crazy. You
think he's crazy. I mean he's really crazy. What you mean?
What you mean? I mean you're crazy. I think you're crazy. Wait,
what did I gotta do? Struggle? You think everything to me?

(12:39):
Oh that I was crazy crazy than you. I think
you were crazy to not take the opportunity. Mm hmm, okay,
I think that that. I'll never understanding. I was sad
when he was tough. I was I was. We was
fucked up. Noah, we were fucked up. Get real, man, Okay,

(13:01):
all this CBS, I don't know what when L did that,
we was fucked up up there. So why did you
not do it? Elliott oh Man drink water? Okay? Uh?

Speaker 1 (13:16):
Joe Budden the media mogul, all right, Uh yeah. I
Ultimately the title was the better opportunity for me, and
I felt at the time money wise, they really wanted
Joe and they kind of wanted me, and we couldn't
get it, couldn't get it close enough, I felt, you know,
and I felt like Joe had kind of already begin
to what he was doing was was taking control of it,
like it was an idea that you know, everybody want

(13:40):
to do, Like everybody wanted to do the first take
of hip hop. Nobody had done it right. Charlo May
tried to do it. Shah he all these type people,
he tried to do it. Noah had the backing to
do it. He wanted me to approach you about it,
but yeah no, But it still was a tough decision.
It was still was a tough decision. That's why I
say it's crazy.

Speaker 2 (13:58):
Why am I crazy? Being real? Well, well all right,
but now, but now give me your hindsight, give me
your home.

Speaker 1 (14:05):
I thought the show was gonna work, remember, because then
I tried to. Then I tried to get you to
come to title with the podcast because I knew the
show was gonna pop when I saw the academic thing.
You guys, remember I said, I don't know whether the
clop you adapt you because I was like, it was
it at the title office. I got you to come
up there one time, and I was like, I knew
this show was gonna work, and I was so fucking mad.

Speaker 2 (14:23):
I was like, but I also thinking it had to
be that.

Speaker 1 (14:25):
I think it worked better because of the generational thing,
and at that time ACT was cool with all these Nope,
can I get it out?

Speaker 2 (14:33):
I mean, it's a crock of shit, but get it out,
like that's gonna love that one. No, because the internet
is tied here and every day struggle with me. They're
sick of all that ship. But that one decision from
Elliott that one hmm allowed ACT to do this. Yeah,

(14:54):
allowed me to do this. It allowed just so many
things to happen. So I did it for hip hop.
I did it for hip hop. I mean, I think
things worked out the way they were supposed to.

Speaker 1 (15:06):
You know, at least I don't know that. I want
to argue Elliott. No, but there wasn't. So the other
part I remember, and I was so mad at you
when we tried to try to take it to GQ
since what happened, no one wanted to do the deal.
But then they were dragon right, and plus the money
wasn't where I wanted to be. So then I was like,
let's let's just try to keep create some heat on
this thing. Let's go to another building. I knew, we'll

(15:28):
watch a GQ they was doing. Uh he was the
keep Oberman, a political guy.

Speaker 2 (15:32):
He had a show on there.

Speaker 1 (15:33):
They were starting to do some original content and I
was like, Joe, we gotta go.

Speaker 2 (15:37):
So I go.

Speaker 1 (15:37):
I take all the means, I take all it means
with Ian his manager.

Speaker 2 (15:41):
Which is bad, which is bad.

Speaker 1 (15:45):
It's all going great. And then we got to bring
jokes to the next the final meeting. So Joe gets
in the meeting and Joe's you know, this is why
I saw the genius of Joe Budden.

Speaker 2 (15:54):
Joe was the most charming.

Speaker 1 (15:55):
If he wants to be the most charming, beautiful person,
he could be that, and then he could turn the
room him literally sitting in the room with these corporate people,
he had them eating out the palm of his hands.

Speaker 2 (16:04):
He had the white.

Speaker 1 (16:05):
Women basically flirting with him and all in love with him,
and then he just turned the whole meeting upside down
negative like like that, like turned it into like, yeah.

Speaker 2 (16:14):
You're gonna exploit us. And they brought the wrong suiting,
brought the wrong suitent we was chilling, catching the vibe.
Then they go get the guy that, you know, the
big whoever the fuck this niggas supposed to be that
we're supposed to care about. You don't know a lick
about shit? What are we doing here? El is like
that l was like corporate darling GQ listen, listen there,

(16:38):
and I'm like the antithesis of all of those things.
Bad idea to bring me the GQ. But that's been
my story at the companies. Like at the companies, they
either don't get it or get it and they're not
gonna pay you. It's never very rare that it's anything
besides those two things. That's how I always end up fighting. Right,

(17:02):
you got to go somewhere, You got to create it
to prove that it's valuable, and then when it becomes valuable,
you got to say, hey, it's valuable. What we're doing
and then they say, nigga, we keeping it. What are
you talking about?

Speaker 3 (17:11):
Well, legend has it that you turned down twenty million
dollars from Spotify?

Speaker 2 (17:14):
Is that true or false? It turned down I walked
away from So was it? Is there a number that
you're twenty million? That was the number? That's the number
some give or take something like that over the course
of many years. Right, but you didn't like the terms.
I was never signing. It worth way more than twenty
million dollars. Damn. So what is what number? If you
said twenty million dollars is good number? Number? Assumes that

(17:37):
I'm looking for a number from somebody. I'm fine when
these people call me, and they still call, we say,
y'all called, We're not looking for nothing. So what are
you looking for? And so what's the key to that
is it?

Speaker 1 (17:54):
Is it Patreon like going direct to your audience and
then supporting you like.

Speaker 2 (17:58):
Fans are always power yourself and not have to do that. Well,
I don't know if that's what was happening. When it
was happening, I was just I was just in search
of a better Wait. All the time, I didn't really
feel like, oh powerful me, I'm gonna fucking but as
you just go and get more information. That's why I
say that complex moves and to stick by you because
at these companies it's not really the money and the

(18:21):
branding is cool. Sometimes we need the information that they're
not going to share with us. So you got to
go there, go behind the wall, see all the ways
that they make money from it. How do we make
money from a song we go on the road infore it.
How do they make money from the song? Twenty million ways?
It's same important for me. You just have to figure out.

(18:43):
You have to be fearless enough to get out there
and figure out what those ways are versus what else said,
go the title and get the check. Like if you
put the bigger check in front of us, then he's right.
Only an insane man would not do what he did.
But part of this you got to be a little insane,

(19:03):
I think, just a little bit. So what mistakes do
you think that a lot of podcasts just make kind
of entering this space. The mistake is stopping Like I
encourage and support anybody who continuously does it, because if
you do it enough, you'll figure it out in real time.
You'll watch yourself back you'll hear yourself back. You'll learn
who you want to talk to, don't want to talk to,

(19:24):
how you want to be perceived, what you like. You'll
learn I killed the people that are lazy and are
not invested in this. It's just smoking mirrors and they're
trying to make people think some ship and they dam
and the people that do it for quick check. Those two,

(19:46):
those are the two that muddy the waters for niggas
like me.

Speaker 3 (19:50):
That So, I was curious, why do you think so
many rappers are kind of gettingto podcasting now?

Speaker 2 (19:54):
Podcasting is a billion dollar business. I mean I think
that's the answer to that. The money is Yeah, I
can't speak to people's passion for it, but there's a
lot there's a lot of money in it, and it's
this is a nice post rap career like this is
kind of like a sports analysts. It's a smooth segue. Yeah,
why would somebody not try to hear that what you

(20:16):
make it look like they could succeed with it' in
that space? Good people need to see that. I vividly
remember what twenty fifteen was like for me with a podcast.
Vividly remember what was it like shave shade from all
over shade from everyone was looked at as a down
trodden like some bullshit, what are you doing your failure,

(20:39):
you're a loser, your bum shouldn't work out, have fun
with your little podcasts. It was that from everybody. You'd
be silly to say, oh, y'all stupid to them while
they're saying that. That thinking allowed me to move covertly
for a lot of years, like try to figure things

(21:00):
out when I open my YouTube today or when I
turned on my Hulu or the streaming and I see
this shit everywhere. I told you so. Score one for
the good guys. Does it feel real I told you so?
Or just yeah? But I mean, you don't get nothing
from that. Like all you can do is say gotcha
and move on with it.

Speaker 1 (21:21):
Right, so you don't look at your thing like with
the high ninety seven things back with the morning show
thing in your in your mind that just wasn't meant
to be these that's something I need.

Speaker 2 (21:29):
But let's say you could have went that pathway. Let's
say if you just a dedicated to it. I learned
quickly and again my vision was after rap that I
would be on a morning show, right. But by the
time it was time to stop rapping New York morning shows.
They wasn't letting go of those seats Like that was
my first realization of oh shit, I'm not gonna get

(21:51):
the morning show. These niggas are not leaving these seats.
Flex Is still these ways and then called me Jeane
Spending them called me when they're creating the breakfast Club,
I'm at the fucking dinner wherever. We are coming up
with names, and I'm like, you were next up, you

(22:14):
were next on our list. But once that's happening, and
it's like now what like now what is that? What
does that look like? And it looked like it looked
like this, But nah, I couldn't do the radio hip
the radio. New York paid paid, New York Morning Show
paid what I needed to be paid. So when New York,
when they wouldn't letting go to seats, it was like,

(22:34):
all right, could I go to Chicago New Morning Show? Wow?
Could I go to La And do they answer to that?
For me was no, Like I'm a very New York
abrasive sometimes could come off rude if you don't know right,
like that's New York, it's New York stuff. I can't

(22:54):
there's plenty of places I probably should move for financial
reasons or LA for work. Right, everybody else they left.
I can't leave. I can't leave. I don't know. I
don't do it. Sorry, sound man. No, there's a there's

(23:15):
a certain grit, there's a certain work ethic that comes
with New York. The fucking sun don't come up in
l A to a one pm. I'll be up at
five in l A in the dark. Nothing on TV.
Can't on the room shirt, Why the fucking my out here?
Get me the fun out here? Anything? But yeah, it's not.

(23:38):
It's just not conducive for like work for me in Miami.
When I go out there, I want to party. I
want to go to the pool. I don't want to work.
Not New York, Not New York. I won't work right.
Everything is working out for you? Get this? How enjoyable?
Was the Ultra show? The greatest that was in Vegas early?

(24:02):
It was the greatest. But listen, I wanted to catch
him last year and I did not like just because
I'm not a show go or. I put it off, procrastinating,
and then he ran the shows to New Year's Eve
and I was like New Year's Eve there and I
couldn't go because of work. So this time I said, no,
I'm booking a flight me and my girl Vegas. Usher.

(24:25):
It was fight week. I wasn't thinking nothing about that,
just Duck and everybody else. Everybody was out there for
the fight, not he came for Usher. I was on daytime.
I'm with my girl. It's ushers dinner, it's picks like.
It ain't rapper time, it ain't fucking media time. You
niggas go to that fight, right, what's that list? Settlers

(24:48):
for strong joint two and a half hours? Wow? They
can't beat him in a versus. Nobody can beat me
an verses. I don't know that. I left that show
saying we don't give Usher respect that he deserves. And
I know that sounds silly because it's Usher. Yeah, but
I bought uh can you get with it? In ninety
three wow, thirty years Yeah? Yeah, he was up there.

(25:12):
He did the City Girl song, he did this feature,
he did his song. He yeah, his timeline, and I
spoke about on my podcast. By just seeing all the
people there and support from La Reads and Jad's and
just the people that were important in his run, that
she was tear jerking for me powerful? Right?

Speaker 3 (25:33):
How about them, Joe butten fans? I know they still
want you to get back on stage. You ever thought
about that? Give us some thought.

Speaker 2 (25:39):
Understand, even if I put it, I'm not gonna say
they're still a demand though for you to perform. Right?
How would I know? I mean social media at the time.
I don't ask him about it.

Speaker 3 (25:51):
So you mean to tell me that Joe Budden music
fans aren't still interested in you perform like a move music.

Speaker 2 (25:57):
They don't really bother me too much. Really, No, I
think what I set out to do and standing firm
and retirement so that they don't, I think it. I
think the test turn.

Speaker 3 (26:06):
Yeah, I don't think rappers ever retired, But I think
you started to convince.

Speaker 2 (26:10):
Me that they do. Listen. I like how I can't
say hold no more because he don't put out too
many albums. I like. I like how he does it though,
I like how Andre does it, like one verse of year.
I'll let y'all know him better than all y'all still
like I like, I like all that stuff. I can't
bring myself to do it yet.

Speaker 3 (26:30):
So do you think that the Joe Budden music fan
is a Joe Budden podcast fan. The two different fans.
What do you think is the difference?

Speaker 2 (26:39):
Well, I don't know what the difference is between the two.
I think there's an intersection, a cross. But as a broadcaster,
my voice is more powerful than than it ever was
as a rapper. Like you just reach more, you speak
to more. I can say more without having to rhyme
and the stanza and the punchline and metaphor this in

(26:59):
the lead, this worry, in the very strong start, the
very strong bust of my hook like this, it's like
a box. It's a box that you have to stand.
And as a rapper my voice might not have been
the most desirable for some people, fucking my hooks. Like
whatever you didn't like about him, you didn't like. But
in broadcasting his voice, don't an that. He's got got

(27:23):
some opinions. I like it's different. You can do voiceovers.
They never booked me, really, you know why, Just like
I said about New York Radio, these voiceover niggas are
not on that James Earl Jones fucking with the other nigga,
the State Farm nigga. My man, they not letting go
of these goods. Man, Wow, I want to go off

(27:44):
to w and me too, my little this is a
barbecue Buffalo Wings. I never get to they'd be souping
me up too. Last year I thought I had one
because hey, we got sixty seconds the Super Bowl. They
want to run into Buffalo Wild, Like, let's try out
your new Buffalo Wild Wings. It's like if my voice
come on in a super Bowl. They thought the conflict

(28:06):
Liss had a man they never had. I never get
to get. I never get to get wow acting. I
took acting classes for real years ago. See that's why
these niggas can't fuck with me. I know what I'm
doing because I tried to go do everything. I tried
to go do it, try to act acting class. I
was killing it. Got a roll too, gotta rule, but

(28:28):
one for me? What was the role? Fucking what I
didn't You didn't do it, I didn't do it. You
read for the part, got the role. I read. I auditioned.
I went to some fancy, fancy acting coach for months.
She loved. She did amazing work with me. By the
time I was finished with her, I was that dude

(28:48):
whoever he was right, So it was fly. But that's
not me at my core.

Speaker 3 (28:54):
Well, you did kind of appear on a small screen
on television, got mentioned Elementary love it right, How did
that feel when you heard about that?

Speaker 2 (29:03):
Oh, the top of the world, top of the world,
top of the world organically right, Like I love when
shows like like that and people I admire and funk
with and create like that. I love when the world's cross.
So it's like that was like a head nod by them.
Didn't have to be done, but it was a salute

(29:23):
from one black creator to another Black That was powerful
for me. Has there been moments like that? Or and
it's got the kids into me? Had the kids in it?
It was like love, they got the kids into me,
the kids in school. Joe Budden, that bullshit is sticking.
It is sticking. Stay motivated, baby, listen man, that's why

(29:47):
you do it. To wake up one day and see
Abbage Elementary. You shout out, wake up one day, you
wake up, grab the phone and say what's gonna be
in store today? Like a Cameron like Abby, don't even
whatever it is. What we're doing right, fantas section is dope.

Speaker 3 (30:03):
But how do you develop shows on YouTube like you
have Besides of Joe Budden podcast, you have humans.

Speaker 2 (30:08):
I wait until I get enough money to do it. Oh,
it's really just the bottom line. I got a million
ideas in my head. But yeah, but I'm funding on
my own ship, so let's slow down. So how do
you vet who goes on? Humans? Because you had like
the story, the storytelling story. Fans kill me because I
had like four white dudes in a row. I've been

(30:32):
talking to every rapper, every black person for twitter years.
Four white people and they start killing me. But uh,
just story Rob O'Neil Navy six, the man killed Ben Laden. Yeah,
I want to hear from him. Uh Colin the guy
that did the fucking ever climbed every mound mount Ever,

(30:53):
that's an interesting story to me, Like I want to
hear about that. I just want to hear stories, not
so much people. But do you prep, Like, do you
research journalist types before I even read a little bit
of they books. Read a little bit of the book too.
They always got a book, they always got it, They
always got a book. I read a little bit of
the book, do a little bit of research. I throw

(31:15):
a little Joe pos ass and there, and then be
off to the racist man. What do you think the keys?

Speaker 1 (31:20):
Because you've always said, like with the YACHTI thing, you
was a novice in interviewing and it didn't go to
where you wanted to go, and it became this thing,
and then now it's actually made a lot of improvement.

Speaker 2 (31:28):
What do you think is the key of how you
become a better interviewer? Talking and speaking to different people
for sure, and just watching yourself. That yachty interview is cringed.
It's cringe to me because I just wouldn't shut the
fuck up. Like one of the best things about interviewing
and the best interviews is they shut the fuck up.
So that was that took conscious effort for me to
learn how to shut the bug up. Most of those humans,

(31:50):
I'm not talking at all, it's them talking.

Speaker 3 (31:55):
But from the yachty interview, you got these funny ass
memes that always circulate online, you know from your days
at complex. What do you think about that when you see,
like you know, a gift of you is being used
to articulate a statement or something that you have done,
that's a loaded question for me to be done. On
the fun side of that, it's fun and entertaining and

(32:15):
there's a value in being memeable, right or meme worthy.
When I was at Complex, that was something they identified
I learned a lot of Complex. They identified that earlier. Hey,
when the second he gets here, we just gonna mean
him out.

Speaker 2 (32:30):
They were really good. They were really good at that
us together magic. But on the flip side of that,
when you think about the business of memes and the
business of our voices, all of us, I mean all
of us, not just us. Anybody putting their voice on Instagram,

(32:51):
it says original audio right there, you record it, it's yours,
and it's there. Someone is getting paid from this shit.
This is publishing. That's true. So memes, our memes are
used to drive traffic, and if traffic is being driven,
then there's money going somewhere in the's business to be done.
But when it comes to us, we just enjoyed the laugh,

(33:12):
the hahay. Oh it does nothing, nothing for me. So
I can't use no more Joe. Butden you yo. The
Jets used a little piece of the Jets when they
Announcedaron Rodgers, I get excited about you like that? What
clip that they used? I didn't see it. It was

(33:33):
me from when Daniel Jones got drafted. I think it
was like, oh, they did a cool little content piece
of everybody just going crazy. That's cool, starting to jump
off it. Listen Bleacher Report anytime something happens. They used
me and that Daniel Jones footage some more. So it's like, awesome,

(33:55):
that's that's great. But that you're you're in a partnership
with me, and we don't have a partnership, right, so
stop it, but shout out the leader vibe respected. I
appreciate it. I don't want to sound like that. Right.
So with the launch of the Joe Butden network, how
many years has it been? There? Never less fun of them.

(34:15):
It's like, oh shit, I gotta do something.

Speaker 3 (34:17):
I was going to say, are you creating any more
partnerships and bringing more people into the network?

Speaker 2 (34:21):
Slow down? And I'm not. I don't know. I don't
know about that one. People. I don't like people. People
really grind my gears. Joe yeah, man, people. Yeah, it's
a lot, it's a lot. I feel like that was
a big part of shit imploding, winning and bloded. Just
too many people now, too many interests to look after,

(34:45):
too many agendas and motives and selfish. I can't I can't,
I can't worry.

Speaker 3 (34:51):
About all that, right, And like twenty fifteen, you talk
about that shift. Was that at the same time you
decided to name the podcast the Joe Button Podcast.

Speaker 2 (34:58):
Why he always put his like journalistic voice on? Is
that my journalist's voice? Yeah? I just want to be clear.
You don't do that, do you that? On TV? This
is my speaking voice? Yeah? You what's up this guy?

Speaker 3 (35:11):
I just want to be clear because a lot of
times people say I sound like you only soprano or something.

Speaker 2 (35:15):
You're cooler than you, James. Your niggas be cooler than this.
But what's the question? I forgot?

Speaker 3 (35:22):
I was gonna say the name change for you named
this podcast lady and turned it to the Joe Budden Podcast,
and then Joe Budden Network.

Speaker 2 (35:30):
Like was that happening around the same time. No, no, no, no, no, no,
none at all. I'll name this podcast later. It was
twenty fifteen, okay, I want to say shortly after that
we changed the name. Was it conscious just to name
it after you couldn't search my ship? No, we just
wanted to change the name. I thought that Joe Budden

(35:50):
Podcast was the dumbest name for a podcast in the world,
and I really liked our name this podcast. Lady c
has a title. I'm on the creative side of things.
So when it when they was like, yo, nobody can
find this ship. You gotta change the name, right, I
was like, okay, well, let me think of something creative
that is more findable. I guess it was like, how

(36:14):
about the Joe Budden podcast that remember you talking to
the guy that when it was time to sign my
deaf gym contract in death Jam, I didn't have a
rapper name. M h. That's how I became Joe Budden.
It's a good name. But my point is, at some

(36:34):
point I want to not be Joe Budden, right, I
want to be my creative, crazy, wild self, and they
always make me go back to Joe. Butden Raging the
Machine Man a rap I tried to brand that group
as as Rage in the Machine or some ship because
it is a raging ship. But they was like, no,

(36:59):
there is there's a credit score that comes along with
each of our names. And Joe Budden for all of
the bashing the internet has done. When people type it
in in the back, yeah, they're like, oh no, I
remember when was the drone came out?

Speaker 1 (37:15):
They say out of Pressley saying we should call him
the drone, like not jay Z, Kanye and nobody, nobody
flew with that, so you know that's hard.

Speaker 2 (37:26):
Just call him the drone. And as soon as they
said that, nigga start throwing shot. Yeah, if they would
have thrown them them shots would have lasted a little
bit because it's too easy. It's too easy to throw
we met raising the machine. Do you listen to your
old music? Yeah? Still yes, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah I do.

(37:48):
I do my AMP show Mondays and Thursday five to
seven pm Eastern Standard time, but I try to always
sneak in a Joe joint just to hear growth because
I don't remember a lot of the verses. I don't
remember where I was at the time. But when I listened,
it's true penmanship and it's like, damn, you was on

(38:11):
some shit right, Like I listened for memory. What it's
like your favorite era of Joe Butden music of Joe
Butden music, all of them, all of them, because it
wasn't that's ever about the music. The music was just
to kind of hold me along time I figured it out.
But my debut, I remember me and my mom times Square,

(38:34):
my whole family at Virgin whatever the story that was
in Times Square buying CDs like that was a moment
for me. The turbulence between my first album and trying
to get a second album out. I needed that. I
needed that. I think it was called the Growth, right,
that was supposed to be see and that's why as
a magazine, Yeah, well because that Jim. They was trying

(38:58):
to get it out at some point. But dog single right, yeah,
yeah exactly, doggangst the party And it wasn't a jay
Z sample on one of the songs. I think stunting, stunting.
But that's when. But listen, that's what I'm saying. Between
album one and album two, Leo and keV and all
the niggas that have kind of curated New York for

(39:18):
forty fifty years, leave insert l A Reed, the man
who's kind of curated R and B and Atlanta for
and I'm a New York rapper, New Jersey rapper. One No,
but I needed that information. Then from there it's like,
all right, what do you do? Oh shit, I want
to be mixtapes, moo music, all of them. I love them,
near and near and dear to me. Then I did

(39:41):
a digital project only in nine and everybody laughed at
that but it was like I see where something is headed.
I'm trying to trying to see what's going on. And
I did a group all of these different phases. I
mean I needed them as what I'm trying to say,
all of them right, and from the group on E
one and the group to shave didn't loving hip hop,

(40:01):
I throw that at me. I needed all that too.
I needed the radio. The battle would hollow anything I
did that was ever a little obscure. I needed it. Yeah,
and you were early on that U stream too, U
stream uh blog TV Uh there was another one. There
was another one they all defund now periscope or something

(40:23):
like that, periscope as periscope. Yeah, man, look you know
the vibe was there. I was there. Yeah, this is early.
Those were those were fun days man.

Speaker 1 (40:34):
But even embracing the YouTube, like nobody the artist was
really doing that, like a lot of that base. You
built that base off your YouTube audience, right, you had
built this. I knew you and Ian had strategized about
building that up. And you hadn't even seen the vision
at first.

Speaker 2 (40:46):
At all at all. But I challenging en, like yo, man,
you got you got one hundred and fifty thousand people
sitting there, two hundred thousand people sitting there. It's a
good base to start owing this shit. I always tell
a story of Ian coming to me. I'm trying to
I'm trying to get a house, but not the right way.
I'm just trying to rent some stupid, big ass house

(41:08):
because it's not important. But Ian was coming to me. Look, man,
fucking made two hundred dollars from YouTube this month. Two
hundred dollars. I need like fifty grand to get into
this house, and Ian's supposed to be getting it right.
But he coming to me super excited that we made

(41:29):
two hundred dollars this month total on YouTube. He's showing
you money, printed it out.

Speaker 4 (41:35):
He said, Joe, look, buddy, this video madeor twenty five cent.

Speaker 2 (41:42):
I'm looking at him like your dog. I could smack
this shit out of you right now if you keep
telling me about this twenty video.

Speaker 4 (41:51):
He said, it's twenty five cent today, Buddy, I love you.

Speaker 2 (41:55):
He's right, nough right for nobody wants to hear that shit.

Speaker 4 (42:00):
It's twenty five cent today. But in a few years,
but sure enough, man, I.

Speaker 2 (42:11):
Mean, how much speak a little bit more? Ian?

Speaker 1 (42:13):
Like the fact that you know you NIWCHORLESTI talked about
how you had so many bad deals and.

Speaker 2 (42:17):
Did my life. Yeah, he and changed my entire life,
everything about my life. And I'm saying that it's somebody
who actively searched for managers. I let the audience know
that certain positions are just tough to feel because they're
so important, uh, and they require so much trust. Managers.

(42:37):
One personal assistant is another business accountant. Like, there's a
few of them. And I had a lot of bad
experiences with management, which is probably why my career looked
the way that it looked, because it was real late
when Cherry told me, I don't care how good you

(42:58):
are as an artist, your own only as good as
your manager. I told you this. Cherry told me this
just run around me. But this was in twenty fourteen.
She said this, right, I'm at the end of the fight,
at the end of the road here. Now you want
to tell me this. But and then I was trying

(43:18):
to find a manager, right who saw my vision for
where I wanted to go in media and content and
not so much music. So think about that. I'm approaching
people saying, hey, I don't want to do what I'm
known for and I don't want to do what I've
only done my whole life, Like you're asking somebody to

(43:40):
see a lot of vision. And Ian did that. He
understood that, I guess coming from his Howard Stern tree,
and he nurtured that. He nurtured that. My first two
years with End. When did it ends come along? I
don't remember now it's been so long, probably about eight
nine years. My first two to three years with En

(44:01):
wasn't the bettert wasn't there because he was like making
me be responsible, like he was putting me on an
allowance and he was holding me accountable and he was
he just did some different things and I was screaming
on it. Now I was I raid. And he had

(44:21):
heard stories about Joe. You're gonna work with Joe, which
I refute those stories if you're here any of the men.
But uh, and then he's coming along and I'm only
podcasting and there's no money in podcasting, which could make

(44:42):
this relationship strenuous because now I'm gonna be on the
phone everyone like what the fuck are you doing? Yo? Like,
and what am I doing? If you're doing this? Like
the chips the ducks fell where they were supposed to fall,
and it couldn't have happened without he has been there,
the force behind all this ship. I will go to war, fam,

(45:03):
I will fight from against any of these niggas out here.
He's been He's been that impactful. Not just to me though,
not just to me, but they know that out there,
like the people that know that, they know that. So
how long was it until you started seeing real money?
What's real money? Well better than two hundred dollars oh

(45:24):
from YouTube? Yeah? Oh?

Speaker 3 (45:26):
Years, Like you're right, trusts, it took years because I
think there is a misconception about podcasting is that everyone
is just like swimming in money.

Speaker 2 (45:37):
Yes, and that's podcaster's fault. You hit that on the
fucking head. God, I just said this all the other day.
Podcasters out there making it sound like, uh, bumping into
a million dollars is super Mario jumping to get a muscle.
That's how easy they make it sound to bump into
a million dollars, and all of them do it so
and I understand why, but it's not that easy. It's

(46:00):
not that easy. The people that are in these meetings
and the people that you got to have these talks
with and the board that got to approve this, and no,
it ain't easy at all, So that's our fault. We
all did that much cap. Too much cap, yeah, podcast good, Yeah,
it's too much cap. When Spotify Game came with that deal,
we was high fiving, but we was high fiving because

(46:23):
in twenty eighteen, there weren't many places that we're offering
that type of coin for your product. And what they did,
along with some other people companies, it kind of changed
the mold and it sent shock waves to the community
to say, hey, this is safe to bet on, like
you can invest in this. When the Spotify contract ran out,

(46:46):
I knew that I would be on my own, but
it was fine because I got the information. Like, once
I have the information, we are right now.

Speaker 1 (46:54):
Do you feel like independence is the move because you
look at yourself lad to assertance to academics, Jumper feels
like like the independent forces is now becoming as bigger,
bigger than the established.

Speaker 2 (47:05):
We're way bigger, way bigger than the establishing way bigger,
in my humble opinion, way bigger. Like when I open
the podcast chart and see one hundred and fifty podcasts
ahead of me, they all are big budget television shows,
it's dateline, it's a bunch of apps. So yeah, no,

(47:29):
we're here now. They got to deal with they have
to deal with it. I can't speak for everybody else
because it's too much captain streets. Like we said, for me,
independence is always going to be the way until you
find unless you find the right partner and blah blah
blah blah, like David portannoying them. They got they were
able to get their investment money or early. Hey you

(47:49):
got fifteen twenty million so I could build my shin
and come back to you and we I don't, nobody
do definitely, So this has to go a little differently, right, And.

Speaker 3 (47:57):
You said the fuck tards fucked up touring and then
you turned down a seven figure touring situation.

Speaker 2 (48:04):
It turned out I just didn't go. I guess that
is turning in for why not Joe? Yeah, yeah, yeah,
you stopped doing the pot tour, said you don't want
to do it? Why hell? We damn that killed ourselves
last time we went on tour and did two pods
a week. Like, it's a lot of work and being

(48:25):
a showman. If you've ever been on the stage, it's
a lot of work. It's a lot of work. So
already in the middle of a rebuild, I didn't think
that touring was the best thing to do. It was
time to go back to the drawing board and build.
But I won't throw you in under the bus. But

(48:47):
some people were ambitious. Some people were a little a
little ambitious. He did a Downstates and then you just
changed your mind. Yeah, yeah, but I was telling him that.
I was telling him. I changed my mind as soon
as that. I was like, stop, yeah, what are we
what are we doing? But it's seven figures seven figures,
so yeah, yeah, a lot of meanings, but no, because

(49:09):
I feel like you the read I probably forgetting.

Speaker 3 (49:11):
Some others were like eight eighty five self, well, well
like pioneering as far as touring goes, bring the show
on the road, and it seems like it was almost
like another source of income for you guys.

Speaker 2 (49:22):
Well yeah, and it can be that for people if
developed right, right, But touring, touring always has so much
to do with how the economy is doing. So an
economy for the last five years is man, then I'm
gonna kill like some fancy jo but mics just this

(49:47):
is a fancy This is my ship. You could well yeah, no, no,
no touring, no touring right now, right Like if I
were to planned, I could see next summer. I could
see next summer. And it just do like select cities.
Blow it out, stay there week in two shows, get
the fuck out. What was that first time?

Speaker 1 (50:07):
Know when you hit the stage, like you know you
used to performing as an artist, realizing, oh, people are
just here to hear me talk like I have a same.

Speaker 2 (50:13):
Proud I'll be honest with you, I wasn't. It took
convincing for me. I didn't. I didn't see it.

Speaker 1 (50:20):
Yeah, I remember we did. When I did Crown a
lot of interviewthing with Tyler. They wanted to put on
a ticket. This is a conversation. It's not because they
thought people would be like I got jipped, Like he
didn't perform, he didn't do any songs.

Speaker 2 (50:31):
It's not meet and greeting.

Speaker 1 (50:32):
So you know, then it sold out and it was like, oh,
people will pay to watch conversations.

Speaker 2 (50:36):
See and it takes you doing that. Right. When I
used to go to the venues and sell out at
the end of the night, everybody that worked at the
venue would be hind five and mean saying what a pleasure.
It is for y'all to come back. And I had
no idea that such a peaceful event could happen here
with just somebody sitting on the couch and speaking. I
didn't play no music, There was no fights. Everyone out

(50:58):
here has seated. People are here on they like. We
had to show venues that it was a market for that.
We always got a show, We always got to show.
So we did it all. Right, what do you think
the future of it's going to be. It's a luxury
ticket now, not for the brokies. I've been saying that.
I've been saying that it's a luxury ticket. It's a

(51:18):
luxury ticket. Now it's a luxury item. It's a luxury item. Wow,
with all of the festivals and rolling lound and just
everybody dumping the money into it again, like podcasts, they
made their bet. So that now that they made their bet,
we own the venues, we owned the land. We're going

(51:39):
to move this thing around. We'll get the permits. We
know the cops. And it's tougher for you now to
do your either a Chitlin circuit run or to set
up your own run with your venues. And you're getting
into smaller venues, so you got to raise the price
on the ticket. So now you're charging somebody one hundred
hundred and fifty dollars. Go to so OB's all right, right,

(52:03):
And that's the show that I'll go to, Like, I
don't know when this is coming out, I'm going to
see Jozzy and sobs Puff's artists, like I like to
try to catch him at that level.

Speaker 3 (52:15):
So what's it like seeing your co hosts become I
guess you could say stars in their own right. I mean,
Melissa has kind of been established, but seemed like Ice.

Speaker 2 (52:22):
And Ish and I love it. I love it. I'm
happy and proud of them. But they don't speak to
me too much about their experience. Found They don't talk
about it, but I from the store. Yeah, they won't
even win the jewry around me. It's that type of ship.
But I'm real happy for them. I always saw it

(52:45):
in Ice. I've told him forever you should do a pod.
I actually told it's the same thing because he's just
argumentative by nature. So to be able to do it
with them and with Flip and with Melissa and with
In and Parks and just gang Gang is in the Fox,
Yeah part far. Yeah, my man, that's is the best

(53:09):
sound in best sound in the game, best sound in
the gay.

Speaker 1 (53:12):
I hate these positives. The audios is little.

Speaker 2 (53:16):
Gotta be having a rush. I'll be trying to put
on the part and get in the shower and then
the audio come on or ad come on, I gotta
rush out the shower, nked and wet slam the fucking
sh ship. Hate as I don't hate asks. Don't put
that out here. That's not true. I hate the money

(53:36):
do it. I hate out it's done. I just hate
I was done. I yo. I believe that we're all
worth more, all of us. That's that's what I think,
and I act like that. So No, when McDonald's calls,
I'm not doing the twenty five hundred dollars read you're

(53:56):
McDonald you're mc donald's and I'm me. I'm no longer
licensing my audience for cheap and to anybody. No, you
got to pick up the phone and have a conversation
with me for us to see where we're going. What's
your business, what are you trying to do? What do
you need? Who are you? Who are you and what

(54:18):
are you trying to do? Don't come over here. And pillage,
just pillaging, pillaging. So if you can find a way
around that and still keep the audio experience the same, great,
And then it weeds out the bullshit right for me,
it's like it's like having a high cover at the
door of the club, like I don't I'm not charging
for dollar the club. I'm not because now all y'all

(54:38):
in here, the chick you fucking from high schools in here,
fucking hood niggas, a dope boybody, now get that out
of here. Weed it out. Some people that call now
they know, they know what they're calling for, and they
know what it costs. It's amazing how these niggas keep
going from a million dollars to fiftyf the phone. Have
the phone? You do that, right? They have a good day.

(55:02):
I hope it gets bad. Right, And so you got
the Patreon. It seems like you have the different level tiers, right,
everybody paid you different level tears. Take your journal voice off,
give me give me the give me the list maker voice,
give me a list maker voice. What we right? I
think media list. I think that's the other reason that

(55:26):
you shouldn't have been beefing back the list because y'all
off y'all was chilling this year. Well, I saw you
about that. You talking about that old rap right on
the new rap. Right. No, but they're different phases. You
have different l and you nigga, I'm not doing this
with y'all. It's two different phases, it's true. Yeah, So yeah,
I wanted to know which one we were talking about.

(55:47):
When they're talking about my show, it's the same thing
are you talking about? Right about the news show? The
same ship.

Speaker 3 (55:55):
I guess we're in the new list is like our
third iteration, Elliott a fourth iteration. So yeah, we've been
here for a while. But you know me, I don't
care about that.

Speaker 2 (56:03):
Man. I fake work for Complex at this point, So
I said, it would put you on the list, man,
but you're not in a three sixty. I might be
speedy woman. Yeah, me and speedy. But I think Joe
definitely should have been on it, you know. Yeah, it's
a broadcaster that that list was special to me because
of how I exit a complex. That's that is, like

(56:24):
you said, a full circle moment, that is and that
is an insane It was a great full circle moments, insane,
and I appreciate them for highlighting me, honoring me and
being humble enough to do it and same with me,
all right, Like for us to do that, I love it.
It's great. But other than that, what's the list? Everybody

(56:45):
knows me? No, I don't care about No, I don't
give a fuck about this. So I was confused why
I was so mad. I'm not agreeing with the list,
all right, but if you're making a list out there
and I'm not top ten somewhere, then you're not credible.
But is it? Do you think?

Speaker 1 (57:00):
Because I'm the only quote unquote journalists in the top ten, right,
So what does that stay about the state of media?

Speaker 2 (57:06):
Is it a bad thing?

Speaker 1 (57:07):
Like you said, the scene can be kind of messy
out here, So what does it say for the overall
state of things? What's your take on that people journalists
feel like, oh this is not this doesn't represent us.

Speaker 2 (57:17):
Well, if this is what it looks like, well that's
why you and mainly only you for me, is like
really integral to this to just all of it. Like
I tell people, if say what you want about act,
but if something were to happen and he were to
not be here, hip hop would feel that loss. Yep,

(57:40):
there's not another one of y'all that's going to cover
this the way that he covers it, like the same
with you. There aren't anymore of the like I said, sway,
but it's not it's not that we need, y'all. I
don't want hip hop to be the void of that.
I don't want like the real, the real niggas that

(58:01):
do this to have to go to a real TV
network And like that's corner to me, that's corny to me.
Went on the flip side. Thank god that that little
window open for the cycle niggas to come in. Yeah,
the wild Yo with the Wild Rappers. That's a buzut too.

Speaker 1 (58:18):
It's like we wouldn't let you in the club, Joe Budden,
Nori Gilly, like these are the love these are a
lot wise going.

Speaker 2 (58:27):
I am amazed every time that Joe Williams. I've seen
him with the President, him with he is a brand darling,
right and I'm bigging that up. I'm bigging that up.
Please don't this construe. I'm bigging at us, of course,
but I bought flow Joe.

Speaker 1 (58:45):
We've seen him walk in the close. What I'm saying,
it's so it's so odd to me, right, I can't
like all the people that you know, Nori kicked out
the club. Why do those types of personalities seem to
make for good? It's insane.

Speaker 3 (59:07):
Right when you had nor on your show, though, Joe,
you said you'd love to see when people are failing.

Speaker 2 (59:11):
Why is that? But without context, this is what I
was saying, and I said it already here. I was like,
the people that don't give a funk about it, or
won't invest in it, or just are lazy, and they
mighty the waters and the people that just want to check.
So when those two groups fail, I throw confetti from

(59:35):
the sky. I'm from my jersey. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I
start making rain some ship because they shouldn't be here.
They shouldn't be here. Good move, one less person in
a way, A right that ruffled a lot of feathers
out there. You know, dogs holler fuck y'all niggas. How
about that is these niggas told me not too much

(59:59):
out of there, But fuck them niggas. I'm sick of it.
I'm sick of these niggas. I've been quiet for ten years.
Lists come out. Everybody want to say some ship. Say
it ain't so Joe, it's soda.

Speaker 1 (01:00:13):
So he said, here's something that this If you said
I think a January and Twitter you said somethingbody, Well,
if you think I'm making changes on the pod, now,
what do you see what my real kind of grand
scheme planning.

Speaker 2 (01:00:27):
Got plans coming. It's just cost Yeah, like fuck any backing.
You don't know, but you don't like it. He's open
to that, welcome me. I'm open to those. Please, I'm not.
I'm open to those discussions, but I'm not forcing them.
I'm not forcing them. Like we're fortunate enough to be

(01:00:47):
able to finance some of these ideas and execute them
in a way that they bring back a return. Why'd
you stop interviewing rappers? Man? You don't like us battling
off rappers like back in the day. You two first,
y'all take it too serious. They take it too serious.
If you want to know why don't interview rappers, it's

(01:01:08):
because El Nori. I won't say Gilly because I don't know,
but I know you and Nori. Y'all niggas nor get
mad if somebody get well, we did banks the recipe sovein.
He was so mad. We didn't want mas was blowed up.
He was blowing up so bad Oh no, he was,
Yeah he was mad when yeah, there's a few niggas

(01:01:29):
like NOORI will tell you mad that you wouldn't chat
with them niggas, right, So that's hilarious. But still I
still interview. I'm just not gonna make it like y'all
will make it like the people will make it a
big deal all to blow up y'all, highlight y'all, the pedestals,
the people like you're supposed to. It's not too many
of them that I want a pedestal. I don't really

(01:01:51):
funk with all of them.

Speaker 1 (01:01:52):
So but then we say the old regalize is that
you have to be the one who's so good you
don't need guests, right, Like you sort of epitomize that too, right,
you don't you want to be line on getting get
great guests, yourself, have to be.

Speaker 2 (01:02:02):
The entertaining force of it, of the program. But that's
a good way to look at it. You want to
be good enough that you don't need them. For me,
it was always I was too scared to rely on anything,
like I didn't want to have to rely on I
guess I was never that well liked. I mean, is

(01:02:24):
really going to show up man. But the people that
the people that come and fuck with me, I have
a relationship with them or somebody really really really close
to them. Other than that, niggas can't just some some
of these do be trying to pop up in town.
Story like that. It just happened to be walking around Strea. No.

(01:02:52):
But but listen, I like that. There's so many places
for rappers to go because I don't want to talk
to them, but I certainly to hear from them and
hear hear more about them, So I like it.

Speaker 3 (01:03:05):
I guess it would be a good A and R too,
because in some ways irresponsible for Don Tolliver's success.

Speaker 2 (01:03:09):
Right, I'm never going to say that, but I'll say,
shout out to him. He's killing. His last album is phenomenal, man.
But what's the time with that? Don't know? Oh, when
he came up, he came up to Complex. He told
the story on my part recently, he came up to
Complex with his man. He came to New York let
me not say Complex from Houston with his man and

(01:03:32):
it was sleep in the car and catch people in
the early morning with their music. So they caught they
caught me. They caught me in front of the complex
at like six in the morning and it's it's footage
of it and nothing came from it, but hearing him
say it lit the fire and let him know that
do this and these people were accessible and they could

(01:03:52):
reach out to me. He was that so shouted Donald's
super I'm super happy for him. We're trying to get
him on the program. Y'all should be to get down.
He came out, Now, yeah that about it. I know
you will. I was like, wait, Donald, I'm right now, Yeah,

(01:04:13):
you always get the big, big one now, yeah, Like
that's I feel like that because of that, though, I
don't like the thing with the number eight.

Speaker 1 (01:04:22):
For me, I feel like people kind of don't know
how to rank me or like they should be like
I'm an outlier.

Speaker 2 (01:04:26):
Why what you like? Because listen is bullship.

Speaker 1 (01:04:29):
No I'm saying, but even our podcasts, I feel like
I get tired of people being like, well, the rap
right you know, wrap hip hop.

Speaker 2 (01:04:34):
Podcast, But in no, they don't mention rap right on,
they don't mention it the same way. Why do you
think that is?

Speaker 1 (01:04:41):
Because I think you look at us as like a
certain journalism or different standard, and I'm the O G.

Speaker 2 (01:04:46):
And beat out, and it's like, we're.

Speaker 1 (01:04:47):
Not allowed to be kind of ranked with you guys
because you guys are the ex players or whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:04:52):
I don't know. I just think it's what do you
think that is?

Speaker 3 (01:04:54):
I think it's just because it's celebrity driven. I look
at you, know you, Norri Gilly got A celebrities.

Speaker 2 (01:05:01):
What do you say about the hundreds of other successful
podcasters that are not celebrities. I'm talking about our space,
like in hip hop space. I guess, well, I know
what I know.

Speaker 3 (01:05:11):
Yeah, but I think in a hip hop space like
you guys have something in common. Like Elliott said, X players.
But at the end of the day, I don't. I
really don't care personally. I just have my own my
own I want to hear it, but am I allowed
to give it here? Of course, this is a place
of love because because let me find a different way.

Speaker 2 (01:05:32):
You could be honest, y'all, we love you. Whatever you
gotta say. Buddy, Well, y'all are bigger than rap Radar. Okay,
that's what the problem is. Well, a person out of us, individually, gotcha, Elliott,
Wilson and b Dot are bigger than rad Radar. So
we got to bring ourselves, Wilson. I just told y'all

(01:05:52):
twenty minutes ago. I just see the value in people
and things. I believe this. I'm not saying that because
y'all sitting here. But nobody is going to put rap radar.
Not too much on Roseenburg easy, easy, not too much
of Roburg common, but no one's gonna put rap raddar

(01:06:12):
in the same breath as Okay, what you said, Joe, Button, Hilly,
Norrie and whoever else they name it.

Speaker 1 (01:06:22):
So do you think this is the so do you
think this is the age of kind of self branding
in a sense like that, that these are the brands,
the individuals are the brands more.

Speaker 2 (01:06:29):
So than well, well, yeah i've been I've been thought that,
but not to say that you can't get by it
as an entity or with an entity. But in this space,
the people that love us and y'all, they don't love
or they're not connected to the same way. Yeah, that's
a clean way to say that. Yeah, if this work

(01:06:51):
l A and B Doc and y'all did the same
amount of work that y'all already do, you're already to
the hardest working men of your business than you. And
if y'all took that same work and just switch the
name like I did. Yeah, I think people would look
at it different because they put you here out of
respect and on the strip of L the name the

(01:07:14):
value that L carries. But mm hmm, sainy nothing else.
Don't give me in trouble love how much it's going
to cost us. It's consulting in the same man, it
ain't consing because y'all gonna do it. Y'all you win
three six. But but I think that even if even

(01:07:38):
y'all should do it like concurrently, like we is zombie
about not doing Patreon yet he's in summer, knucklehead. I
can't give up. I can't tell you how stupid you are.
You have one of you, one of the one you
did with your like I say, who the person is?
I know I do the one when you're talking to me.

(01:08:00):
And because you my man, I thought to text you
the night before and say I had to tap you
a little bit, little little tap tap tap. But then
I was like, oh wait, I ain't saying no names.
Maybe you know.

Speaker 1 (01:08:17):
But as soon as I said I hadn't read my part,
I was like, that's me. But yeah, nobody in the comments.
Don't even talk about me.

Speaker 2 (01:08:25):
I had all obvious. It was so obvious. I was like, Yo,
just talking to me. That was crazy. Yo, why the crazy?
Why did you say it? I'm crazy? Like because you too,
you're too happy in life. You you married, you married,
you got some money. You the man sheet a man,

(01:08:46):
y'all move, you're comfortable, you'll to the man. I know.
So you're comfortable and you look like the thig that
couldn't get out. I'm not.

Speaker 1 (01:08:54):
I just i' might have to just do you see,
I'm getting hyped up all that old ex EXCELSIU.

Speaker 2 (01:08:58):
So I think I's about to I might have to
go back into it. But I'm laughing at him posting
that XXL shit, because dog, you are laying your own
case as to why you stupid. You should have all
of that ship big and then go and do your

(01:09:20):
company man ship that you do. But on the side,
I don't handle that. Build yourself. And you've been here
from the start watching all of this shit happen. It
just it just I don't get it. I do not
get it. I don't get it.

Speaker 3 (01:09:32):
What can we have kind of separated a little bit,
you know, Elliott was doing Crown I had to show
in complex.

Speaker 2 (01:09:37):
Y'all not hearing me. You're still naming all these people.
Crown is who it's elliots, Right, Okay, we're not gonna talk.
Still a little shadow, that's a little shot. Still all right.
I'm saying to y'all to build y'all, and you're telling
me about everything else. I'm saying, build y'all while you're

(01:09:57):
doing Crown. This complex. MTV used them to market y'all
and then rewrap all of the money to y'all because
y'all will get paid more. Easy, not too much of Roseenberg. Easy, easy, easy.

(01:10:19):
I don't beep nobody today, including him. See why gout
you happy? You're happy now? Yeah, but look at all
the turmoil I had to go through. It All I
had to go through to get happy. Ship was turboil
to the x Excel ship was turboil. That was That
was a tough time, scary time. Yeah, but that was
a tough time. And oh whatever, No, I got you.

(01:10:39):
We are in twenty twenty three, Ai Drake tracks. No,
I just heard Biggie and the Weekend. I'm hearing all
types of shit out of here. Yeah, I spice record,
Yeah right now, we're going yeah, if you're talking about

(01:11:02):
oh oh whatever, No, man, we gonna be damn there
in twenty twenty four. This shit is zooming by or
zooming by rest in peace. My man. Billy hit the
lot of for three hundred million dollars and died three
hundred million dollars. Now, yeah, wow, Billy and Madden. Every
day for forty fifty years, he went to the same

(01:11:23):
store and played the same numbers, right, And then one
morning he was running late for work, so he went
to a different store, and he hopped out and played
the same numbers at a difference store and hit for
three hundred million dollars as a man in his late sixties,

(01:11:44):
and all he knows is harmlem, I'm here to take
care of my mom and I'm not believing. And you
get that that that before fixing that hind you get
how many years you get from it. But at some
point all of this is gonna end. And that's the
message I carried with it like I try to that

(01:12:05):
should I say at the end of the party's real
life is a series of moments and moments past. Let's
make this last. I mean that shit, because at the
blink of eye could all be all be done. I
checked myself when all I cam chill meet me a
little location. It's like, dog, you know, I can't even
say it because I can't say it, but I can't
do this with you. All right, man, I'm glad you

(01:12:28):
did this with us. Man. Thank you Joe, y'all on
I told me that last time I saw him. Yeah, like,
y'all on my list when any time you need me,
I'm here. Thank you for coming on my show. To
the Complex, guys, didn't think you were going to show up,
but why confirm it?

Speaker 3 (01:12:45):
Yeah, it was like this guy's being nice, like this
is the first time you returned since the departure, so
it's like you're gonna get you.

Speaker 2 (01:12:51):
I was like, I guess we could call them up,
and you showed up. I think that was the precursor
for the list. I was gonna say, yeah, y yeah,
that was like a temp check. They probably thought that,
you know, maybe Joe's man. But I'm appreciative to everybody
who helped, right, Like help is so hard to come by.

(01:13:11):
Complex helped, Spotify helped Elliott helped helped help Elliot, like
those people that Rosenberg helped Rose Rosenberg's help. But he
was at the usher show people that two steps. I
didn't know he's behind me. Shot. I'm here, like, I'm

(01:13:33):
not looking behind me. I am here to see one man.
But it was good to hear from him, right. But
just look at that, your media, your media dude had
usher with his like, I like to see that, and
I loved it. I'm tied into the Joe Budden me
the mogul rids that I have my time. Yeah, you

(01:13:55):
fucking that's why all these niggas did me. I was
confused because so many of them, well maybe not the
niggas this me contributed to me, Like, I feel like
I'm a student of fucking e Bro and Calm Badge.
You had to kick me under the table, y'all wake up.
This is a talk break coming. Get from under the

(01:14:17):
table and get on them. Crack the mic. I thought
that in the morning. If the morning you're started in five,
you can get there five. Oh man, I thought that too.
Some guys like I was a nut. So thank you, Bro,
thank you to Tracy Elliott. Any it's too many, it's
too many names, too many name. But the niggas that
didn't help. Oh, it's up. It's up too late. Great master,

(01:14:40):
I'm here now, I gotta fight the work ethic. Man,
it's phenomenal. Thank you, Elliott, thank you. I appreciate that.
It inspires me too, so thank you, saying to you brothers,
there we go. Anytime. You're kind and gracious enough to
have me back. I like that. I like the driver
drop me off the wrong spot, clearly said east, nigga,

(01:15:01):
just west. I'm I'm gonna test you, but that it'd
be like a like en route and I'm so poch.
I know you want to let me know how follow
you out? I said, I'm woman to what like you know?
Eleven eight? I got out and just stood around. I said,
says what Wow? And outside is back. Yeah, it's Randy's

(01:15:25):
Joe budden Weather right now. It's coming that heavy. I
loved it, Ray, I'm talking the trafficing, the people. Yeah,
it's nuts that I took another twenty five to get
over here, but I liked this. I think we made it.
Yes we did, Thank you, Jordan podcast Yeah Yeah. Rap
Radars Interval presents original production from hyper House, produced by

(01:15:45):
Laura Wasser, hosting producers Elliott Wilson and Brian B.

Speaker 3 (01:15:49):
Dot Miller Fromnival Presents Executive producers Alan Coy and Jake Kleinberg,
Executive producer Paul Rosenberg.

Speaker 2 (01:15:56):
Editing is sound designed by Dylan Alexander Freeman, recording engineer
Mike Urban, visual director Josh Perez, Operations lead Sarah Yu,
business development Lead Cheffie ellen Swig, and Marketing Lead Samara Still.

Speaker 3 (01:16:10):
Make sure to follow rap Riator or listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
Amazon Music, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts