How Residential Agents Can Profit from Commercial Real Estate With Will Curtis | RARE Agent Show - RARE Agent Show

Episode Transcript
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Will Curtis (00:00):
And finding either the tools that you need or a
brokerage that's going to helpyou provide those tools.

Dylan Tanaka (00:06):
Welcome to the rare agent show.
I'm Dylan Tanaka, a realtor,mentor, and author.
This podcast is dedicated tohelping real estate agents like
you close more deals so that youcan live the life you always
dreamed of every week.
My guests.
Curtis and I share the stories,strategies, and tools you need
to inspire and empower you.
Let's make it happen.
Hey guys, we're back withanother rare agent show.

(00:28):
I'm your host, Dylan Tanaka.
Super excited to be here todaywith somebody who's making some
huge moves in real estate, WillCurtis.
He's a commercial broker and heis going to let us know exactly
what he's got planned this yearthat's going to make him a rare
agent.
Before we get started.
Well, I got to ask you myfavorite question.
How do you take your coffee?

Yeah.
Well, thanks for having me.
And, uh, of course I'm hotcoffee, little bit of cream,
little bit of sugar, two tothree cups a day, just to stay
caffeinated to close thosedeals.

Awesome.
So, um, I mentioned a little bitearlier that you are in
commercial real estate and, uh,there seems to always be
crossover between the commercialand the residential agents.
So did you start out incommercial and just walk us
through your journey, um,jumping into real estate?

Yeah.
So for me getting intocommercial was really dumb luck.
Uh, I was in the army.
We had a, uh, uh, our commandfinancial specialist.
Who's usually the guy thatteaches you how to balance a
checkbook and not go buy a carat 33 percent interest rate.
Um, all those, uh, you know,kind of young, dumb mistakes
that you make, uh, sat down andput on a very rich dad, poor dad

(01:37):
esque, uh, Here's how to investin real estate and sat down and
was telling us that he has an Esix with, you know, 20 plus
years of, uh, military servicewas making more than what he was
as a, uh, soldier.
And me being a young privatemaking little, no money.
I was like, well, this guy'snot.

(01:58):
He's not anything special.
It was a normal guy and wasdoing well.
I was like, well, maybe I coulddo that same thing.
And that's what kind of got meinterested in it.
And as the, uh, military changedthe GI bill, uh, but now we're
going to pay me to go to school.
I was like, well, if I went andgot a degree in real estate,
I'll be the smartest houseflipper there ever was.
And, uh, I never flipped ahouse.

(02:19):
So maybe I am the smartest onewho knows, but.
I got in a degree program, founda fraternity brother who had a
small family run office that wasinvesting in commercial assets.
And he needed somebody to answerthe phones and you know, poor
college kids.
So sure.
Uh, started answering phones.
And next thing you know, Istarted moving into doing
commercial property management,uh, leasing and all that.

(02:42):
Early on, I did a little bit ofresidential sales, uh, I kind of
chased anything and everythingthat was shiny.
I had a small apartment locatingbusiness as well, which, uh, was
disastrous, uh, cause it's alittle hard to get them to, to
pay.
But, uh, I did a residential formaybe two transactions and I
think I showed a family 45houses just didn't.

(03:04):
Yeah, nothing worked right.
And finally we found the housethey wanted and the, uh, the
wife of the family, she turnedaround and she goes, I like
everything about the house,except for the color that's
being painted.
I'm like, I'll come in onSaturday and I'll paint the
stupid thing.
I don't care at this point.
And she said, no, I've seenthis.
The juju of the house is off.
I can't, I can't buy this house.
We'll have to find another one.

(03:24):
And at that point I was like,this isn't for me.
Residential is absolutely notfor me.
And, uh, that's when I startedkind of gearing down and
focusing on the commercial sideof it.
Uh, a little bit more so, andkind of starting in property and
asset management, and thenmoving into more of a
traditional brokerage role.

Do real estate.
It's funny because I've got agood friend and he talks about
when you get started in realestate, whether that's
investing, whether that's houseflipping could be commercial,
like you said, underwritingapartment buildings.
It's not always the thing, butit seems to be the thing that
gets you to the thing.
And, um, Rich Dad, Poor Dad isprobably, you know, one of the
most inspirational books forentrepreneurs over the last 25,

(04:30):
30 years.
Uh, because it's just helped somany people open their eyes, not
something that they typicallyteach us in regular school,
right?
And hopefully, um, from ourgenerations down, we're teaching
our kids to think a little bitdifferently, if that's what fits
for them.
Um, But that's, that's cool.
There's a big difference, Ithink, um, between residential
and commercial, and there'sstill a lot of similarities.

(04:53):
Um, so, I would, I think gettingstarted in commercial is
definitely more difficult thanresidential, um, because there's
just less of it around.
So what were the biggestchallenges that you

faced when you first got started?
I think for me, the biggestchallenge I had was really
picking a specialty, uh, andtrying to figure out what I
really wanted to do.
And a lot of times, a lot ofcommercial agents will still
become generalists.
And the downside of becoming ageneralist in a large market is
that you know enough, but you'renot really an expert.

(05:25):
So then you start losing out tothose who really are experts,
those who can sit down and tellyou backwards and forwards
what's happening here or there.
And I think it's sometimes ahuge misconception is that, Oh,
I can do commercial and it'severything.
Uh, I've done more than abillion dollars in transactions.
I'm an instructor for CCIM forIram degrees, teach at college

(05:48):
on paper.
I should be able to do every bitof commercial.
I couldn't sell a hotel if Ineeded to.
I don't know the first steps andI think most people don't.
Look at it that way commercials,commercial, but honestly, retail
versus multifamily, it's, it'sdifferent office is different.

(06:08):
And I think it was, it wasn'tuntil I really sat down and
started focusing.
That's where I actually startedgetting good at my craft,
understood what was going on,understood how buildings
operated.
And it wasn't until I finallyfound that specialization that I
actually found that I could begood.
And then I slowly branched outand other things from there, but
it was finding that initialwhere to start and even.

(06:29):
For me, most of it was a medicaloffice.
And very quickly, I realizedthat, uh, me and doctors don't
get along.
So it, it wa probably wasn't thebest client fit for me.
And I shifted some of thatbusiness now to working in with
hospital systems rather thanindividual doctors.
So you can, you can have areasto move, but it's not until you
find that specialization thatyou really.

(06:51):
Kind of jump ahead and findsuccess.

Yeah.
I think that's a big differencebetween residential and
commercial is, um, being aspecialist or having a niche
focus personally.
I, you know, I have my ownspecialty working mostly with
investors coming from theinvesting world for so many
years.
Uh, and like you said, it's verydifficult to be everything to
everyone, particularly incommercial.
Um, so we, we've got a lot of.

(07:15):
Residential agents in our, uh,in our community, a lot of them
also invest in real estate.
A lot of them have, have alsodone multi unit, maybe not like
five or a thousand or 2000 unitprojects, but well, well over 50
to 100.
Um, what would you say, uh, fora retail residential agent who

(07:36):
is kind of getting pulled intothat commercial world?
What would your, what wouldyour, uh, advice be for them
just getting going?
Okay.

So I think having realistic expectations, the
very, very first thing, uh, wegenerally coach our new agents
when they come in is that if youare focused on commercial full
time and be a full timecommercial practitioner, that,
uh, that's a two year journeybefore you start making decent
money.
And if you have a residentialbusiness, you're trying to do
both, that may be a three year.

(08:06):
Four year journey until you cantruly replace that residential,
um, business and move full timeinto commercial.
And I think a lot of folks don'trealize that's the case.
Part of it is your first sixmonths, you doing full time on
your first six months is leadgenerating, and that's, that's
all you're doing.
And you're not closing yourdeals because you don't know
anything.
You don't know anybody.

(08:26):
And you're trying to build thatsphere.
Even if you know a lot ofbusiness owners or a lot of
property owners, they're not.
Ready to sign with you or whywould I sign with somebody
absolutely brand new thatdoesn't know anything?
It's not like in residential or,well, that's my cousin.
I'm going to use my cousinbecause that's family.
This is sometimes, you know,hundreds, if not a hundred
thousands, if not millions ofdollars that I'm not going to

(08:48):
trust my cousin.
I'm going to trust somebody whoknows what they're doing.
And that dynamic is verydifferent from there.
I think it's really educationmentorship.
Uh, there are a lot ofbrokerages out there who do
commercial, but they don't, uh,really train.
They don't mentor.
They don't do all those aspects.
And I think once you sit downand really dive into the

(09:11):
education, you know, a lot ofbrokerage will have some
education and that's great.
Uh, the, you've gotorganizations like your realtor
association likely has some typeof tra training for commercial
agents, which is a good start.
And then you've got folks likeCCIM and those that are out
there that offer some of thiseducation that really can dive
in.
One of the new things CCIMrolled out within the last year

(09:31):
or so is this introduction tocommercial real estate
certificate.
It's a 40 hour set, of course,where there's about three days
of it is fully.
You have to follow these steps.
So it's a negotiations.
It's a principles of commercialreal estate Um, and then you get
to pick specializations afterthat So if you want to dive into

(09:52):
medical office, they've got aclass on medical office You want
to dive into underwriting?
I got a class at deep dives andunderwriting and I'll I'll Like
that kind of education, causeyou get to dive in with
specialists, specialists thatreally understand, uh, what
those aspects are.
And then from there, it'ssitting down and finding either
the tools that you need orbrokerage, that's going to help

(10:13):
you provide those tools.
Uh, I think one of the biggestshocks is, you know, your MLS
likely cost you a seven to ahundred dollars a month.
Most are paying quarterly, butyou know, somewhere in that 70
ish dollar range is what mostMLS fees will charge you.
Co star.
By itself is going to run you500 plus a month.

(10:34):
Um, and that's just to haveaccess to it.
Then you've got to market it.
And that could be 100 per monthper listing just to, uh, start
marketing those properties.
It's a lot more expensive and alot of times you're a lot more,
um, selective on those deals youpick because if it's going to
sit there for two years, you'regoing to get paid a thousand
bucks.
And commission, it doesn'tpencil out.

(10:56):
So I think those are some of thestruggles that as you get
started, you've got to look atall those things, really
business plan this out.
And I don't think you, everybodyI've met that has just kind of
dabbled to try to get intocommercial.
Um, either they dabbled theright way and got lucky or.
Absolutely, uh, get demolished.
By the time they realized theyhave to have all this tools

(11:20):
experience to do the job theright way.
And, you know, commercialbrokers can be a little nasty
where, Hey, why are you usingthat resi agent?
They sell houses.
You should come to a realbrokerage.
I mean, it's.
It's nasty, but that's exactlywhat they're doing.

Yeah, it's a whole different world.
So I've done some crossover andcertainly not a billion dollars
in commercial real estate.
But as soon as someone calls meand they're like, Hey, so you
know, I'm in Metro Detroit, sowe have a ton of light
industrial here.
The County I grew up in is whereall of the job shops were back
in the eighties and nineties.
And there's a ton of, um, Justguys who own that shop.
They're there on the Saturday,right?

(11:55):
And you knock on their back doorand that's how you start
building those relationships forwhen they're going to either
move up or move on, which couldtake 10, 20, 30 years.
And I learned that from acommercial broker.
That's how he cut his teeth andbecame one of the biggest guys,
probably the biggest in my wholeCounty for, for a small boutique
brokerage.
Um, so yeah, I think inresidential, you can, you can.
Uh, relationship your way intothings because let's face it.

(12:18):
If I called you today, Will, andI'm like, Hey, cousin, Will,
it's Dylan.
I need you to list my milliondollar house on the lake.
Can you do that for me?
You might not want to, but foryou to actually go through and
do that transaction.
It's not that tough, right?
You got to kind of fill out alittle bit of paperwork, get it
on the MLS if we're willing toprice it right.
And I'm going to listen to you.
You're like, I can sell amillion dollar house with my

(12:39):
eyes closed.
Now for me to sell a milliondollar building, uh, that's
light industrial and you've gotto have all these different
crazy things happening and theygot cranes and they got all this
other stuff that you know about.
They come to me because I know alot, but I don't know the right.
answer.
I don't even know the rightquestions to ask.
So I always refer those dealsout because I'm not going to

(13:00):
take care of that customer theright way.
If it's a teardown building,it's a different story.
Um, but when to be specialized,you, you really need to know
your craft.
So I think that's a bigdifference between you guys in
commercial and residentialagents.
Um, but what would you say, whatskills do you think can cross
over if you are a successful orsemi successful residential

(13:21):
agent and you're serious aboutgetting into commercial?

Yeah, I think what residential agents do a thousand
times better than, than, I mean,some of the best commercial
agents, uh, one is the idea ofspeed to the lead in
residential.
I mean, it's an hour, right?
If they don't call you by anhour, they're already moving on
to the next agent and it couldbe even that in commercial, that
idea is like, eh, I'll get tothem tomorrow.
And so it's a drasticallydifferent mindset.

(13:47):
So the agents that we havecoached through that transition
and have mentored through thattransition, I mean, they kill it
because they answer their phone.
And I hate to say that's all ittakes to be successful in
commercial, but that's the firststep is really sitting down and,
um.
Just answering a phone and beingreceptive, working when the
client wants to work.
Uh, many of us that have been incommercial for a long time, 5.

(14:10):
30 is the end of the day.
I'm not going to answer the callafter 5.
30 unless you're a great client.
And, um, am I going to work aSaturday or Sunday?
Probably not.
Whereas that residential mindsetof let me be there when the
client needs to be.
That's gonna win business rightthen and there.
The other thing I thinkresidential agents do a whole
lot better than commercial is,uh, building the relationship.

(14:32):
So you do the clientappreciation events, the
residential agents will sit downand reach out, do the pop buys,
do all those things to helpnurture relationship.
And in commercial, I don't knowif we do that nearly to the same
extent.
Do you send something forChristmas or end of the year?
Do you pop by?

(14:53):
Yeah, maybe if you're around,sure, but it's not the same
thing.
And we don't focus nearly asmuch on building that
relationship as what is done inresidential.
And what I've found, even withsome of our agents, we've
transitioned from residentialinto commercial.
That's what they kill it out is,one, answering their phone, and
two, building that relationship.

(15:14):
Uh, where even at, at thispoint, I would take Somebody who
is a relationship orientedperson and can build those
relationships.
I'll teach you the the back endcommercial real estate side of
stuff If you can do that side,you'll you'll kill it as long as
you're willing to to learn No,no problems with being able to
kill it.

No, that that's awesome to hear from you I don't
talk to a lot of commercialagents not about marketing and
this stuff, especially and Um,there are agents there's old
facebook groups about pop eyesin these typically it's ladies,
but i'm in one of the groups Anduh, my better half helped me
assemble something to go toProbably like a dozen people
because I'm, I'm, I'm a normalagent, but I'm definitely not
like a normal crazy agent who'sout there putting pumpkins on

(15:53):
500 people's porches.
Right.
Uh, but I'm, but I'm tellingyou, like we put these things
together.
I put it in this group.
These people were freaking out.
They want to know where I gotthem, the price for each one.
And there are, there are agentsout there who are delivering
hundreds of little baskets, youknow, even once a month.
And it's funny because it's likeI said, If you're my cousin and
I live in San Antonio, I'm like,no, no, no.

(16:13):
My cousin's an agent.
I'm listening with him.
There's no chance that if I meeta guy at the gym or if you're
having a coffee or having a beerwith somebody that I'm going to
hire a different real estateagent, because like it's my
cousin.
And that's what happens a lot inresidential where we both know
in commercial typically.
A man or woman who has built amulti million or deck a million
or 100 million empire is makingdecisions, usually based on

(16:36):
logic and on numbers and X's andO's.
But I think, like you said,having that warmth probably
doesn't hurt, especially itmight be some little crappy 500,
000 building.
They're like, give it to thatnew guy, Dylan, let him try.
He's been knocking on our doorand sending me, you know, Uh,
whatever the heck it is, uh, youknow, to try to sneak in.
Um, and it's funny you say thatabout commercial guys.

(16:57):
I've been friends with a lot ofcommercial guys, my whole
career.
And I always tell them like, youguys are so arrogant.
So I don't answer the phone atnight or on Sundays or Saturdays
much, unless it's a, an activeclient and I'm in a, you know,
I'm in a different part of mybusiness now after all these
years.
But, um, yeah, I'm like, youguys have to act so cool.
And I'm like, I'm the guy whobought the 80 unit apartment
building.
Why are you acting cooler thanme?

(17:18):
And why do you have this like150, 000 Beamer?
And I've got a five, you know,fit at the time, probably a 25,
000 truck.
Now every truck's 50 to start.
But, um, it's a different airthat you have to carry.
And again, if we're going to sitdown with a, with a person or a
hospital or a corporation, theyneed to see you as a, as a
trusted advisor.
And that's, uh, I did want toask you quick before I forget

(17:39):
about CCIM, but the differencewith residential is you go
through some con ed.
Nobody knows everyone's a top 1percent real estate agent.
I claim that I am, and I am bynumbers, but we don't always
have those designations.
I think that make.
Such a big difference,especially in commercial.
When I see one of my friends arelike, I got it.
It's a big deal.
So for our residential agents,um, can you just, you know, give

(18:02):
us a quick few minutes snapshoton exactly what a CCIM does and
what that means, uh, maybe evento you is when there's another
co broker involved.

So when it comes to CCIM, um, CCIM's foundation
really came into the idea of weneed to make sure everybody
communicated the same language.
So if you looked at real estatein general, um, in commercial,
we start dealing with the WallStreet, with the finance folks,
there's, there's your pensionfunds, everybody else who's out
there investing, and they'retypically looking at stocks,

(18:31):
bonds, and all of a sudden youhave all this financial language
that came into real estate.
So your average real estateagent didn't understand this
financial language and theypoints where they didn't
communicate well.
So when CCIM was originallyfounded, was the idea, let's get
everybody to communicate on thesame language.
What that's evolved into is theCCIM designation.
And basically to, to earn thatdesignation, you've got to take

(18:55):
a series of courses.
So there's four.
core courses.
You take ethics, you take anegotiations course, and
depending on where you are inyour career, you may have some
electives, um, but those fourcore classes, the 101 is kind of
a principles of finance, divingin, understanding how to
actually, how finance actuallyworks, not just how do you get a

(19:16):
loan, but how do I determine theCash on cash return, the
internal rate to return, allthose things there.
Uh, the 1 0 2 course, which isone of the ones that I'm an
instructor for, uh, that 1 0 2course is diving into looking at
market data and demographics.
So if I buy this property here,will the demographics shift in a
way that it's going to be morein demand than it was or what is

(19:40):
happening with the city'sgrowth?
And understanding those kind ofskills to see if I invest in a
property.
Is this going to be profitablelong term based off of what
those demographic perceptionsare going to be doing?
The third course is looking atit from a user's perspective.
So if you're a tenant or abusiness owner, should you buy?
Should you lease?
What are those decisions youshould make?

(20:00):
And then the final course on allthat is the investment decision
analysis.
So it really is diving into thego or no go decision of should I
buy this property or should Inot?
From there, you've got to have aportfolio.
of property.
So not only have you taken theseclasses, which are all, you
know, 13 to 1600 bucks plususually travel and all that kind

(20:20):
of stuff, you've got to have aportfolio of deals.
And that kind of shifts a littlebit.
I'd probably screw it up, but ontheir website, they'll, they'll
tell you what those deals are,but they're generally, um, 20
transactions altogether at afive year period, or in that
same five year period, you know,one transaction over a certain
amount, three transactions overa certain amount.
And then when all that is done,you get to sit down and take the

(20:41):
final exam.
Uh, that final exam is a sixhour class, uh, six hour exam
where you are going througheverything you had those first
four classes, uh, and then sitdown and taking it, uh, as well.
It, um, my mind was absolutelyjello by the end of it.
Like there was nothing left.
If I had to take the exam thenext day, if I didn't pass the

(21:02):
first time, there's no way Ithink I would have been.
mentally prepared to do it.
Um, so as you go through there,then at that point you have
earned the CCIM and theadvantage of CCIM is generally
it's looked at as kind of thePhD of commercial real estate.
It, it's the, the designationthat you can go out and earn and
that kind of instantly gets youcredibility.
And it's not just brokers, it'syour property managers can earn

(21:25):
it, your, uh, appraisers orlenders.
The nice thing is that it buildsa nice community of individuals
that are all doing differentaspects of real estate.
And we all communicate on thatsame language.
So as I go and work with otherCCIM, I understand they're going
to understand things at adifferent level than what your
average agent may or may not.
Uh, and even being young in theindustry, when I came in, I was

(21:47):
26 and I was losing deals to, tothe gray heads that had been
doing it forever.
As soon as I had my CCIM, Inoticed I started getting the
interviews more often because Ihad something that said I
actually do something.
Uh, now I didn't mean I wantevery one of those, but I at
least got in the room tointerview where before I wasn't
getting those same interviews.

(22:07):
And ultimately, that's what hasbeen on the, the Somebody had
put it this way and I, I, I likeand dislike it is that CCIM is
like a fraternity.
You get in there, you build therelationships, you get hazed
through math and not through,you know, things that fraternity
haze you on, but you go throughthat whole process and then as
you build it, you now haveconnections all over where I was

(22:29):
looking at a development deal,um, just a few months ago and
they were doing all sorts ofthings that I wasn't familiar
with.
Very quickly, I was able to pickup the phone and call a buddy
out in Louisiana who does thiskind of development and say,
Hey.
Walk me through this is makesense.
And next time we're atconference, I owe you a drink or
two.
All right.
It's cool.
Yeah, that's, that's fine.
And that relationship beingbuilt, we refer business back

(22:50):
and forth.
It's trusted.
And even when I get stumped onsomething, I know who to call
to, to help me out.
It's been probably one of thebetter things I've done in my
career is, um, Being involvedwith CCI, especially on the
brokerage side of my business.
CCI was absolutely been a gameshaker for

me.
That's an awesome explanation.
Well, I've never had itexplained like that.
Typically, uh, I've probablynever asked the question that
way either, but typically theguys I know are like, eh, it
means I know what I'm doing.
And this is, you know, this iskind of in jest and I've always
been, uh, so I've had my realestate license since oh nine,
I've been flipping since ohthree.
I've always been an advocate forhaving your license.

(23:26):
And I always thought as I lookedat.
And I typically only listed myown stuff or deals.
I did with partners are very,very close investors.
Um, so I had a very jaded view.
I didn't deal with like, I've,I've only driven people around a
couple of times out of hundredsand hundreds of transactions,
they were family or blood, and Ididn't have a choice.
And like, like you said, I'm notgoing to do that 40 times.

(23:47):
It's crazy.
That's just not what I'm builtfor.
Right.
I'm good at other things.
Uh, but I w I was always likesurprised and thought that there
could be more in theresidential.
So industry, uh, for one, ifthey made it a little bit harder
to get your license, for two,when I became a broker, I went
through the GRI course.
I don't know if you're familiarwith that, but it's called

(24:07):
Graduate of Realtors Institute.
The, the old guys that broughtme up in the business were like,
this is the, the, it's not theCCIM of retail, but it basically
is the CCIM of residential.
Uh, because I think it took liketwo and a half times as long to
get my broker's license.
Which made absolutely nodifference.
Most times now, the other agenton the other side doesn't care

(24:28):
that I'm a broker.
They definitely don't even knowwhat a GRI is anymore.
Um, but, but I love the factthat it created that fraternity
for you guys.
Because, forget about, you know,sitting down with a guy who owns
a bunch of buildings and you canspew out NOI and, and everything
that, you know, you're supposedto say properly.
But I think having thoseconnections to where If you're
not the right agent for thatclient, now you can bring in

(24:50):
another agent and notnecessarily for a takeover, but
just to, to back you up and helpyou because it could just be
something with your firsthospital system deal.
You didn't start at 26 doinghospital system deals.
You stepped up and stepped upand stepped up.
And, uh, I think it's a shame inretail that you can get your
license like that.
Even worse as a real estateinvestor, you know, because
you're, you're, you know, you'reon social media.

(25:12):
You see anyone can be a realestate investor literally in one
second.
Anybody walking down the streetin front of your office right
now can just say, Hey, I'm aninvestor.
And I do all these, uh, youknow, crazy.
Um, uh, uh, what I want to say,like, um, the sub two deals and,
and, and all of the creativestuff and things that will
almost get you put in jailbecause.

(25:32):
There's nobody to police it, youknow, so I do really admire that
about your business and uh, theguys or ladies who get their
CCIM because I know that it's asacrifice and uh, most of us
aren't just coming out of highschool or college when we start
training or Or, um, studying forit, right?
So it's like you, you might havea family, you might not, but

(25:53):
you're definitely doing businesswhile you're trying to study
this stuff that isn't reallygoing to put a dollar in your
pocket until come to find out,like you said, those doors were
open for you.
And if you don't get up to theplate to even swing the bat,
you're not going to hit theball.
So eventually that makes you abetter sales person and just a
better broker in general, noteven just sales, but a better
communicator.
The more you spend time withthose people.

(26:14):
So I appreciate your, um, Youranswer to that, that was really
cool.
I think that's an eye openerfor, um, retail agents.

When I think the, the ice cream with all that as
well, is that, that focus on,and I think this is another big
difference between residentialcommercial is just the fact of
doing math and.
To be truly successful atcommercial, you've got to
understand the math and, andmind you, I was an army guy,
right?
We're not, we're not known formath, right?
We're kind of big hammer, bigsmash.

(26:41):
And if it doesn't smash thefirst time you get a bigger
hammer.
And when I went back to do myundergrad, I didn't take
remedial math.
I took the remedial remedialmath where I colored in the
duckies the farmer had, right?
It was, math was not my thing.
It was after practice andrepetition and going through
these trainings, going throughthis class, going through CCIM,
doing these deals on a regularbasis.
You start understanding how thenumbers really, really do make

(27:05):
sense where I had a deal.
And I was so proud of myself forgetting this thing across the
table was that I found out theowner was getting ready to sell
the property and he didn't likethe lease deal that we were
putting in.
He didn't want to put that muchtenant improvement, uh,
allowance into the deal.
It didn't make sense for him onpaper.
Honestly, he lost money on paperfor that deal for that lease.

(27:25):
And I just flipped the script.
I said, well, if you put them inhere, You're making a 20, 000
investment.
And if you sell your property inthe next three to six months,
like you hope to do, that 20,000 turns into 280, 000 based
off of your sales price.
So if you sign the lease today,in the next handful of months,
you're going to make 280, 000more because we put this tenant

(27:46):
in there.
And he's like, Wait, is thatright?
He looked at his broker.
His broker's like, I don'tunderstand that math.
Walk me through that.
So here I am in the middle ofthe discussion on their
whiteboard, their conferenceroom going, Hey, here's how this
works.
Walk through it.
And they're like, Oh yeah,that's making a whole lot of
sense.
And they signed the deal, butit's because you understood how
the math played.
And I mean, ultimately CCIM iswhat taught you or taught me how

(28:08):
to kind of walk through and dothose things and how to get
creative to pitch a dealdifferently and make the math
work on.
It didn't work on a lease, butit worked at it when you were
looking at the sale.

That makes such a huge difference.
Um, again, I haven't sold a tonof commercial, but I've done
lots and subdivisions and crazythings, you know, a little bit
more outside of typicalresidential.
And, uh, I'm a numbers guy by,by nature.
So I'm a little bit lucky thatway.
Uh, so extrapolating that stuffout, just, I'm, I'm doing it
like right now, as we'retalking, I'm thinking about your
deal, but it would, it probablywon't shock you, but something

(28:40):
that kills me, and I actuallytrain agents on this.
They don't know how to do a netsheet.
So we'll, I'm sure you, youfollow like what we call a net
sheet.
It's just, I'm sitting down withyour aunt and uncle.
I'm going to list their house.
They're like, okay, Dylan, welike all your stuff and your
little iPad and your whiz bangpop buys right in the pumpkin
at, uh, you know, Halloween.
But how much are we going towalk away with?

(29:00):
And I'm telling you, these guyscannot back of the napkin
calculate.
You can do it right now.
You're like.
Alright, if they're paying six,there's typically probably three
or less in other closing costson a residential deal.
So you guys are like, gonna beat nine percent, you know, in
junk.
Maybe 10, but it's probably morelike seven or eight, eight and a
quarter.
And I have so many friends inthe business who are uber

(29:22):
successful and they're callingthe title company saying, what
are closing costs going to be?
And this is before like a filesopen, you know how title
companies like to work upnumbers for fun.
And it's like, you got to knowyour job.
But again, this goes back liketo training.
If you're, if you're with aboutique brokerage, I think it
helps if you have the rightbroker or the right, um.
Managers in there or mentors ifyou're with a big place if

(29:45):
they've got good training ithelps but for the most part If
you don't know how to sit downand explain a purchase agreement
line by line, word for word,even in residential, and this
comes from my investing days,then you're going to lose
because you're not taking yourbusiness serious.
And had you not picked up thatdry erase marker and started
being a giver and explainingthings and not being, you know,

(30:05):
cocky and rude in there, youmight not have closed that deal.
And that deal may have led towho knows many, many more deals.
And it's just that added.
The right attitude to take.
So, uh, so again, I thinkthat's, that's really just, uh,
goes back to basic business thata lot of us are missing in the,
in the real estate world.
So hopefully our, our listenersand watchers are paying

(30:25):
attention to that because it's,it's not easy, but it's simple,
right?
So.
A lot of, uh, a lot of retailagents fall into those
situations where, uh, they couldbe, they could get involved in a
commercial deal, but like wetalked about, we're probably not
the right person for that.
So typically how does that work?

(30:45):
I know it's differenteverywhere, but if I came to you
and I said, Hey.
Uh, I've got this, these people,they want to buy this warehouse.
I don't know what I'm doing and,or, you know, the hospital
system, since that's, that'syour specialty.
I've got this, this, this plotand I've got this hospital
system.
I don't know what to do.
Um, how do you guys usually dealwith that?

It's going to vary by agent, by agent, right?
Some agents are absolutely, theydon't want to co bronc, but they
don't want to do anythingtogether.
They want to kind of be thatlone wolf.
And for them, it's probablygoing to be just strictly a,
Hey, pay me, I'll pay you areferral when the whole thing's
done.
I'll call you when it's done.
Others may be a little bit moreopen to kind of partnering and
coaching and kind of helping onthat side.

(31:26):
If you're a different brokeragesthat can.
Cause a little bit of interestor liability on who's actually
holding it.
Who's calling the cards.
There can be some interest in,in those things as well, uh, or
some interesting things as thosethings kind of come through.
So some brokerages will allowsome.
Well, um, but ultimately at theday, you got to make sure from a
commercial perspective.

(31:47):
Uh, um, I kind of go back andforth when I get a residential
agent saying I got a commercialdeal for you.
Um, One, is it something in myspecialty, because again, the
idea is all commercials thesame, but you bring a gas
station.
Well, that that's not me.
I'm going to send you somebodywho knows gas stations, but if
you bring me a medical officedeal, the other thing I'm going
to look at too is, okay, ifit's, you know, uh, 500 square

(32:10):
feet for a year, I'm going tomake all of tens of dollars on
that deal.
It's not.
It doesn't make sense wheresometimes from the residential
perspective, it's well, it's acommercial deal It's got to pay
you got to pay a ton.
Well, well, no i've been paid 18bucks on a on a commission You
know for uh for a commercialdeal like it some of them are
small and you you do thembecause it's a favor you do it
because it's a you know, it's aadditional transaction on top of

(32:33):
another one.
I mean there's reason to takethem but a lot of times it's
Making sure the deals that youhave are qualified and it's,
it's somebody who is legit.
I think that's one of the thingsthat a, a lot of residential
agents have to look at as wellis that if they've got the deal,
if they're going to refer itoff, make sure it's good quality
and they're good, good businessowner, uh, or good investor in

(32:53):
that case.
And then if you want to sitdown, build the relationship
beforehand.
I think a lot of times you pickthe first person that's willing
to work with you and then youfind out it's just a terrible
process.
Says, so as you're finding thatmentor, you're finding that
person that you may want to workdeals with.
You should start building thoserelationships early on.
Um, I, I coach and mentor a lotof agents.

(33:15):
There's some that I, I justdon't like them and it's not a.
It's not that I'm a mean orthey're terrible people.
We just don't get along.
And it's probably not going tobe a good fit for us to work
together and it should work withsomebody else.
And I think that's the ultimatething is I've got certain agents
that I love working with andwill absolutely partner and do
all that and other agents whereyou're either going to refer the

(33:36):
whole thing to me, or you shouldcall so and so.
And I think it's building thatrelationship early on because
there's a lot of moving parts.
And once you get those movingparts kind of going and
everybody understands what theyare, then, you know, that's,
that's the, the best way to kindof start moving in.
And if you're trying to addcommercial to your business,
shadowing is, is great.
I've got no problem withsomebody wanting to be the face

(33:58):
of the transaction.
They're kind of therelationship.
Let me be the, the expert in theback end and you'll learn what's
going on.
We'll walk through it.
You're in all thoseconversations and.
You start learning those deals awhole lot quicker, a lot better.
And, you know, especially ifthey're complicated, you start
seeing all the complexities thatgo on with that deal.

I think, uh, there's a big difference.
The relationships as far, atleast in my experience, the
relationships that residentialagents seem to have versus, um,
They're commercial agents andthen versus residential and
commercial trying to worktogether.
We talked like a little bitabout RESPA or probably the old
Robert Ringer book, if you're,if you're familiar with that.
And they talk about commercialbeing for the big boys.

(34:37):
Um, cause I, I look at like areal estate transaction,
especially at a title company.
Again, call it a 500, 000 home.
You've got an agent on thisside, agent on this side.
There's probably a financemortgage person there.
There's a title person doing theclosing.
Then after the, after the.
The event is over.
Everything's signed.
Those two agents, they could beat the bar together, you know,
drinking a beer and they're kindof buddy buddy and they work

(34:58):
together and even though theynegotiated, um, that's kind of
where some of these weirdlawsuits came up.
I don't want to get into thatstuff, but Uh, they have a
little more control, I think,when there's two agents than,
than when there's one a lot oftimes.
So, um, I think one of thetoughest things to do when
you're a residential agent is,is working with a commercial
agent and not understanding thatthere is like a different set of

(35:20):
rules that you guys are allowedto play by.
So can you, do you have likemaybe an example of, of how that
kind of happens?

Biggest thing you'll notice that most agents
or most commercial agents arenot a part of NAR.
That's an hour conversation allof it itself of why that happens
to be.
So the the big thing that you'llnotice that's different there is
that they do not subscribe tothe same set of code of ethics
that NAR does.
So, uh, outside of licensinglaw, can they disparage you?

(35:47):
They could, assuming thelicensing law is not there,
which again, by code of ethics,you can't do.
Um, you know, they can kind ofhandle transactions a little bit
differently.
They can, um, you know, by codeof ethics for AR, you're not
allowed to go and prospectsomebody else's business.
In commercial, that's not a,that's not a thing.
You can't get to the point oftortious interference.

(36:09):
Basically jumping in the middleof their contract and tearing up
the contract.
But can you bid somebody else'sstuff?
Absolutely.
And those are the kinds ofthings that you start seeing
happening very differently.
And what I find interesting issome of these non NAR agents
know the code of ethics betterthan what.
Actual Realtors that are N.
E.
R.
members know it.
So when you go do the same thingback to them, they're the one

(36:30):
that files the ethics complaintagainst you because you're not
playing by your rules.
And I think it's something that,from N.
E.
R., I think it's something weneed to work on and, you know,
help educate and do those thingsthere, but absolutely, there are
ethical things that areprohibited by Code of Ethics.
Versus on the commercial side,even when it comes to the legal

(36:51):
side, working with, withclients, uh, most states will
say that commercial is going tobe a more of a buyer beware that
you should have more, uh,education or more, uh, knowledge
than the residential buyer.
And therefore you're not nearlyas protected, uh, in Texas, uh,
even doing evictions.

(37:12):
I don't have a three day Youknow, cure or get out.
I don't have all that in Texas.
The day you don't pay rent, Ican, by midnight that night, I
can log the door.
And then I go through theeviction process, right?
It vastly different than aresidential, even in Texas where
residential, you've got to givethem notice, you got to wait,
you got to through the court,like you're, you're 90 days plus

(37:33):
to kick them out where.
I mean, most of the time when Ilock your doors, tenant
magically has the money the nextday.
So, you know, it's those kindsof things that, uh, are
drastically different that youreally have to.
Really have to know andunderstand.
If not, you may find yourself alittle bit of a little bit of
trouble.

It always cracks me up how, um, you know, how
people aren't willing to hireprofessionals.
I have friends who've sold multimillion dollar properties and we
call them, um, land contracts uphere.
You probably call them agreementfor deed.
They'll pull something off ofFacebook for a million dollar
property.
What we call a land contractbecause they don't want to pay
an attorney to 50.
350 500.

(38:11):
And I'm thinking it's just likeyou said, if you get in front of
a judge on a commercial deal,the judge is going to go, did
you have an attorney?
I'm sure that's his firstquestion.
Who, you know, who, who draftedthese docs?
And if you have an attorneythere, it always helps.
And in commercial again, we'removing multi millions and
property attorneys areinexpensive compared to what
could happen or a great broker.

(38:32):
Also, you know, I considermyself Uh, not an attorney for
sure.
And you, you don't either, but Ilook at my clients, like I'm
going to protect them as rabidas any crazy attorney and make
sure that no matter what they'retrying to achieve, as long as
it's above board, I'm going todo that.
I'm not going to tell anysecrets to anybody else.
And I'm, I'm going to be themost intelligent communicator

(38:52):
possible and then help guidethem to make the right decisions
that help them to get to theirultimate decision that they
wanted.
You know, or, or their solutionthat they wanted for, for
whatever they're trying to do

with commercial is the more reliance on attorneys.
And, and even in commercial,like we butt heads with
attorneys sometimes becausesometimes the attorneys are,
well, the agent, we know I'm anattorney and don't get me wrong,
I.
I love some of the attorneys Iwork with.
They're great people.
They work great deals.
They absolutely do their role.
But the difference a lot oftimes even with the broker or

(39:23):
the attorney is that theattorney is looking at the legal
and the risk and all that, whichI'm looking at as well, but not
to the same level.
Whereas I am.
Sitting down and looking at whatis the market doing?
Is this the right setup with theattorneys not doing, what is the
market?
What's normal in the market?
What are we seeing for thesedeals?
What are the leading trends?

(39:43):
The attorney seeing what he'sdone over the last several
times, maybe not what the newesttrend that they're seeing.
And, and there's a place forboth.
And I think that's the importantthing is understanding having
those professionals in the team.
And that's another bigdifference with commercials that
I have worked with a client whosays, Hey, we want to sell our
property suite.
What do I need to know?
Oh, here's my CPA.
Go talk to him.

(40:04):
And when we get ready, here's myattorney and use them.
And now I don't talk to theclient until we get to the
closing table.
We're sitting down with a CPAand the attorney through the
entire process until we got anoffer.
They're okay with it.
We all present it.
And then we go from there.
So, I mean, it's a, it's acompletely different world,
especially as you start dealingwith these larger transactions

(40:25):
that may not even interface withthe client.

That is a lot different than how it typically
happens in residential.
So, uh, thanks for that peekinside.
Well, that's, uh, That'ssomething to think about for
sure.
Just a different way to approachthe business.
So I know we talked a little bitoff camera.
You have a podcast, uh, that,that you're doing.
So I want you to talk about thatso we can make sure that all of
our watchers and listeners, um,move on over and check yours

(40:49):
out.
Yeah.

Yeah.
Well, appreciate that.
And mine is vets and real estateand, uh, it's the vets and real
estate podcast.
And what we're really focused onis taking those military
veterans who are transitioningout of the military or may have
been out of the military for acouple of years and are looking
at coming into real estate as acareer, whether that's lending
home inspection, commercialresidential, property
management, whatever the caseis.

(41:11):
And we've sat down and startedinterviewing those agents that
have kind of made thattransition already and talking
about those lessons learned,what worked well, what didn't
work well.
And, and ultimately the goal isto give you a pool of
individuals to look at, see howthey've found success, what has
worked well, what hasn't workedwell.
Uh, I know when I came out ofthe military, you're, dealing

(41:32):
with culture shock, you know,coming from a military world to
a civilian world is drasticallydifferent.
And then coming into a businesswhere you're maybe getting paid
on commission, where you're usedto getting paid to the 1st, the
15th, there's a lot of thingsthat are different.
And now you're building abusiness that's for you and it's
not necessarily the selflessservice that you're used to in
the military.
And ultimately that's what we'reworking on is try to help bridge

(41:54):
that, uh, that gap and helpthose veterans who are
transitioning over.
So it's vets and real estatepodcast.
On all social medias, we're VetsN R E, so V E T S I N R E, so
Vets in Real Estate, uh, throughall that, and again, we, we post
on a regular basis, uh, weeklyinterviews, so of course, love

(42:14):
to have the subscribers, love tohave other guests, uh, that are
coming in, and the one thing wefocus on maybe a little bit
differently is we're looking atthe agents and the professionals
and not necessarily theinvestors that are coming in.
There are a lot of Greatopportunities for passive
military investors and all thosekinds of things that are out
there.
And we really didn't findanything that was focused on the
agents and those that are, yougot the professional licenses

(42:36):
and those things.
We don't find that nearly asmuch.
And that's the core group thatwe're trying to help build is
for those.
in the profession and notnecessarily as a full time
investor.

If you are a vet and you are in the profession of
real estate, make sure that youclick through all of Will's info
is going to be in the show notesbelow.
And, um, listen, this is whatit's all about, right?
It's about creatingrelationships.
You never know what can come outof them.
Will wants to help a bunch ofother veterans move into this
business that we love.
So Will, if you could sum up.

(43:07):
Everything that you've learnedover these last, I think you
said you're only 29 now, right?
So we've only been in thebusiness a few years.
Um, I'm just kidding, but yeah,but, uh, if you could sum it all
up, um, what, if you could giveus just like one sentence of all
the wisdom that you've learnedthat you wish you would have
known when you were 25 aboutthis business, what would it be?

Maybe a little controversial, um, but it's
understanding demographics.
Um, I think especially from theresidential side, we get so
worried about, uh, it's fairhousing violations, all that,
but.
A lot of times we don't actuallylook at our marketing and how we
market ourself.
And are we communicating thebest way?
So sitting down andunderstanding the demographics
of who your ideal client is, howthey want to be communicated

(43:49):
with and communicating in thoseways.
Uh, I, I joke all the time thatif I'm trying to sell to seniors
who are trying to downsize, I'mnot going to post on Snapchat.
Why?
Because seniors aren't onSnapchat.
Well, I'm not discriminating andall that, but understanding what
is the best way to reach.
That client I think many of usin real estate don't do a good
job of that We think we couldpost a couple things on facebook

(44:11):
It will get some deals notknowing that if our our ideal
client is truly on Facebook orif they're gonna respond to a
mailer or cold calls.
And for me, once I really dovein and understood the
demographics of who my clientswere and how they wanted to be
communicated with, I saw a hugechange in my business by just
making that shift iscommunicating the way that I

(44:32):
want my ideal customers to becommunicated with.

Awesome.
Well, Will, from myself again,the whole Rare Agent Nation, we
appreciate you sharing yourexpertise with us and we will
see you guys on the nextepisode.
Thanks for listening to the rareagent show.
I hope you got as much value outof this episode as I loved
bringing it to you.
If you're ready for more, makesure to subscribe.
So you don't miss a singleepisode and don't forget to join

(44:58):
our free Facebook group closingsfrom leads.
It's a community where agentslike you are connecting, sharing
strategies and getting exclusiveresources to close more deals.
You can find the link in theshow notes.
I can't wait to see you thereuntil next time.
Keep it rare and keep it real.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}How Residential Agents Can Profit from Commercial Real Estate With Will Curtis | RARE Agent Show