Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Jonathan and Kelly Show.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Jonathan Rush someone who actually stole four hundred thousand Social
Security numbers and personal information from the Social Security.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Database, Kelly Nash in order for.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
People to basically steal money from Social Security, basically get
people to get the factor registered to vote and to
get a bunch of benefits, make care, unemployment, IRS refunds.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
The Jonathan and Kelly Show doubledo.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
And supposedly there's going to be a major arrest to
be made. I hope he's I hope he's not just
speaking out of the top of his hat. Because if
you've got someone that you can pin four hundred thousand
numbers and other information that was then used to somehow,
as he said, defraud the government of payments through Social Security, Medicaid, Medicare, disability,
(00:54):
and then an even larger crime if you use that
to allow illegals to register to vote. That would be
a huge day for Doge.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Well, I don't know that it's just going to be
one individual with the four hundred thousands. I mean, what
if you stole ten numbers. I mean, whoever it is
needs to do some serious Let's get them to el Salvador,
whoever he or she may be. But they were boring
a topeak. I don't give a you know. I was
just commenting on one of our Senator Matt Leeber's got
(01:31):
a video up of the military operation last night where
they deported seventeen murderers from Trend de Agua and MS
thirteen down to that El Salvadoran prison. And you know,
we've seen some of the clips over here on television,
but this is the full video of them getting off
the plane and being transferred over to the L Salvador
(01:53):
prison guards. And then they push your head down and
they shave your head, and then they put you in
the cell and you're all sleep being on top of
each other, and you're all in cuffs and whatnot forever,
it seems. And I was saying when I was a kid,
that's how I imagined prison was gonna be. If if
you had to go to prison, right, I imagined, all
(02:15):
rights are over all, any chance of happiness has been
taken from you. And yet here in America, specifically in
South Carolina, we're trying to figure out how to stop
our prisoners from putting TikTok videos out. We can't stop
them from doing TikTok dance trends.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Apparently we've given them all the entertainment we thought it
would take to keep them from doing their TikTok trainings.
But you know, just having the game room with the
television and everything, that's not enough.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Send them all to El Salvador, or bring El Salvador.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Here, and you know that instinctively, there's a whole different
app there's a different atmosphere when you step off of
the plane. Because they showed some of the guys that
are in the buses, and those dudes were already in
a seat with their head down. I mean they were like,
I don't know what they told them and what language
they spoke, but it was clearly understood.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
They probably just saw some of those videos, because I
mean when you look at those videos, even ones that
just Christy Nome did, was it last week? Yep? I mean,
it looks like the most miserable place on earth would
be that El Salvador in prison.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
All those guys standing there looking at her.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
And there's nothing you can I mean, they can't do anything.
They're in shackles, like oh, sometimes.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
It's not play plainly, don't eyeball him no, and if
you die, you die a blackjack to that eye. Yeah,
who's gonna sue the El Salvador president. He's like, I
built this prison to kill you people. And I was
pondering out loud, I can't believe that there's actually the
goodness in the heart to allow these people to live
the way these guys are treated. You thought that it
be marched out, made them to dig a trench and
(03:47):
stand in front of it while we shoot you and
did just cover you up.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
It was interesting. They did have an interview I want
to say, about a month or two ago that I
saw in somewhere our social media summer YouTube or whatever
with one of the guys who's in that, and he
was talking about how he got involved in gang life
and how he went down the path and by the
time he was like thirteen, he'd committed his first murder,
(04:11):
and you know, by sixteen he he'd kind of risen
to like middle management of the gang down there in
El Salvador or whatever, and how they made their money
and what the value system was and all of that stuff.
And then he said, you know, ironically, I'm basically I
live twenty miles now from where I grew up and
(04:32):
I will be in this prison till I die, and
I think it's a good thing. And the interviewer was like,
you think it's a good thing, and he says, well, look,
if I was to get back out, I really negatively
impacted that community. Those people have an opportunity now to
live a good life because people like me are not there. Well,
(04:54):
I was a broken person, and everybody in this gang
and everybody in this prison is a very broken person
who all we can do is harm each other. So
now we can't even harm each other because we're just
chained to each other constantly.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
I'm like, wow, Kelly, I'd like to correlate this to
a South Carolina story. We've been reading about Michale and
I've forgotten his last time because I don't had a
story in front of me. The guy who chose, I
guess in the past couple of days, and he will
in fact choose the firing squad as the methodology for
his death row execution. H But I think it's like
(05:28):
the first or second, second or third paragraph in the article,
his attorney says, one of the reasons why this man
ended up on death row. Now I know you're going
to bring it up that he killed a police officer,
shot a guy, put him in a trunk, says his
body on fire.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
I don't know all that.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Okay, so that's I get it. But his attorney wants
us to have another consideration. Oh what's that, Well that
as a youngster, he came from a broken family and
his father was abusive. Okay, Now, I don't what you're
describing to me in the interview is that guy Roy
recognized he was a broken person who has a tendency
towards violent crimes. This judge, they think that the judge
(06:06):
would have actually ruled differently if he had known that
as a child, this youngster suffered great stress and distress
and I'm sure of physical abuse, maybe pure emotional abuse. See,
but we would need to let him go. Well, if
his attorney would say let him go, but certainly take
him off a death row. He was as a child,
(06:26):
he had challenges that it was not that those challenges
weren't allowed to be vocalized in the court of all.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
I'm just wondering, like so when people have that argument,
I'm always interested in knowing what is the goal here?
So is the goal rehabilitation? Because there are people who
are rehabilitated through the prison system. So if you're going
to prison because you've committed a crime and they believe
(06:55):
they can rehabilitate you. You were a bank robber, perhaps you're
childhood had an effect on that, and you did whatever
you did. You arm robbed something, and you did nine
years in a federal prison or a state prison, and
through that you were able to see the errors of
your ways and you corrected that. And now you're thirty
eight years old and you're you know, you're going to
(07:18):
have a rough road. It's going to be certainly a
lot rougher than if you hadn't gone to prison for
nine years. But you can get out and make a
life for yourself. Okay, I'm all for that. I'm all
for the second chances. But even the Bible talks about
there are certain times when you've gone too far, even
for God himself to pardon you. You've crossed a line.
(07:42):
Now I'm not saying where that line is, but as
a society, we have made a decision that there are
certain crimes that you have crossed the line where rehabilitation
is no longer an option. Punishment must be death. That
was society's choice. You don't like society's choice, you can
(08:03):
campaign outside of these individuals and try to change the law.
But the law is the law.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
And for a long time we heard that some of
those lines were barriers that you had crossed over and say,
killing a police officer, because if you don't have any
respect for authority, you certainly don't have any respect for
a regular citizen, you become more of a threat to
the general public. Plainly, in the past ten years we've
seen where one party in particular encourages violence against police officers.
(08:31):
Then it used to be that if you committed a
crime against a child, we would hear stories supposedly that
even hardened criminals in prison would have a special punishment
for guys who were pedophiles or otherwise harmed or killed
a child. That plainly has been a rased out of
the consciousness of our criminal codes, or at least the
(08:52):
persons who are currently convicted, because God, look at many
crimes we can against kids these days. And we got
one party in particular, was it just by all that
with your boy, your man.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
Love, what do they call that? On man Love Thursday?
Man Love Thursday, that's out in the some of the
Middle Eastern countries.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
You know, it's not like sodomy is a new crime either.
I mean, I didn't even realize that when sodomy was
like a crime that was first deemed to sin against
man on man, it was not a crime if you
were sodomizing persons from another tribe, another village, different culture,
different country. So if you have male prisoners, then you
(09:33):
would sodomize them. You wouldn't sodomize your own citizens. Can
I stay at a consciousness of that even in biblical times?
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Is there a chance that I can opt out of that?
I don't want to be on either side of that.
All right, your job this week to sodomize all the prisoners,
can I get I don't want that duty? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Can I just work the concession stand?
Speaker 3 (09:54):
So, just in the interest of just bringing out this fella, right,
So what's his name again, Michel Maddy, whatever his name is.
In two thousand and four, he was only just a
lad of twenty one years old. He stole a three
eighty from his neighbor, stole his car, and stole a
set of Virginia license plates to make the car not
(10:15):
look like the stolen vehicle so that's part of the plan,
and then he drove to North Carolina. The next day,
in Winston Salem, he entered a convenience store picked up
a can of beer. When the twenty nine year old
clerk asked him for identification, he checked it. While he
was looking at the man's id, he pulled out the gun,
(10:37):
put it in his face, laughed, and blew his head off. Okay,
so that's how the whole That's how he started the day.
On July fourteenth, two thousand and four. After murdering him,
he then attempted to open the cash register and steal money,
but he couldn't, so then he just grabbed a couple
more beers, got in the car and kept coming south.
(10:57):
He then arrives in South Carolina, where he armed himself
with another gun after he murdered cop James Myers. So
now he's murdered a police officer. He then takes that
gun from the cop and he tries to carjack somebody
named Corey Pitts in downtown Columbia. He steals Pitt's car,
(11:18):
replaced the car license plate again, and heads southeast. Thirty
five minutes later, he goes into a gas station tries
to buy gas with a credit card, the pump rejects it.
He then it goes nuts. He then shoots up the
gas station and attempts to flee on foot. He then
arrived in Calhoun County, hiding in a local farm, where
(11:41):
he spent the day watching TV and examining the gun's
collections stored inside the farm's workshop with that owned by
another farmer who was celebrating his birthday of his daughter
and sister at a wife at the beach. Well, when
he came home, he got a twenty two caliber blew
that dude away. So he's just killing and just stealing
(12:04):
and doing whatever he wants to do. He then tries
to flee. He stole another vehicle, tries to get the Florida.
They were able to catch them. The FBI brings him back,
blah blah blah. Well, I mean, I don't think any
of that stuff because especially some of it's on camera.
None of that's really in doubt. Now, the defense brings
(12:26):
up their client has a troubled childhood, was raised without
a mother and the father neglected both not Madi and
his older brother, and he himself was the victim of
circumstances that led him to going astray and then becoming
a criminal, and then they bring in all this now again,
I'm sorry that happened to you. When you commit a crime.
(12:49):
When they say hurt people, hurt people. Okay, I understand
that to mean emotionally we hurt people. But it's but
if you're talking about emotionally hurt people, because obviously he
wasn't murdered by his father. If his father had murdered him,
he wouldn't be able to murder anybody. His father emotionally
(13:10):
abused him, and he might have physically abused him to
some level, but he never killed them. So when you
kill somebody, you have crossed a line. When you kill
a cop, you have crossed another line. When you kill
a child, you've crossed another line. You just keep crossing lines,
and we as society have decided we are not going
to tolerate that, and we're not even trying. I know
(13:32):
some people are like, well, doesn't deter anybody.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
Don't care.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
We're not trying to deter you. If you have got
it in your mind that you're going to murder a cop,
you are going to die. And it shouldn't be a
pleasant death. The fact that we give them three options
electric chair, firing squad, or lethal injection, and then their
lawyers are going to piss and moan about you know,
(13:58):
I don't know. It looks like it took too long,
along with the lethal injection, and then the nobody wants
to go on the electric sofa.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
I did learn something from the attorney when he said
there's no death penalty execution method that's one hundred fool proof,
and I thought, you know, I've never considered that before.
Let me do a Google search. How many times do
we try to kill somebody and we as a society,
no matter which state it is, or maybe it's a
federal charge. I don't know, just didn't quite get it
done right. It's a bad day at the office that day.
(14:26):
It's a bunch of them.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
Now, has the guillotine ever failed?
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Now, as we look at the opportunity, some guy, even
with the firing squad, took him about ten minutes to
bleed out, So they didn't hit him.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
Why didn't they just fire again? Right, just keep pumping
him full of He's gonna die of lead poisoning. Let's
keep it going.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
So as we look at now we've got the doctors
who are saying it takes too long to die because
of the lethal injections, and because of the shield laws,
you can't get the actual description or the samples of
the products that we're using. And now you're actually people
are drowning to death because their lungs are filling up
with fluid as opposed to a peaceful death, while at
(15:09):
the same time recognizing they're totally unconscious so they don't
know that they're drowning, even if that was an accurate description.
And maybe I'm misapplying that word in this context. I
don't know. I don't care. Then the other one is
the electric chair. Now we've all seen the green mile.
We know if you don't follow the procedure then that
can lead to a mess, So I get it. But
(15:31):
still running electricsitly through your body at that rate for
that amount of time at that amperage is certainly going
to make your heart beat real fast for a while
and then stop. Then the other one, of course, with
the fiery squad. Now, I don't know why they picked
out some of the five worse shots in whatever state
they carry that out, but they did. I don't think
we'd have a hard time finding people in our law
(15:53):
enforcement that actually hit the target. I mean they put
a cross here, right over the guy's heart. I think
they'd have the doctor actually place it there. I mean,
you got a great target. You're fifteen twenty feet away.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
Why do you gotta be so far away? Can I
just walk right up and put my gun right into
his chest and just boom? I think a lot of
people would like to look this guy in the eye.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
I got to tell you something, if I were going
to be going to death throw, I would say, please
just give me a revolver with one bullet one and
you know, all of you can stand in the other room.
I can't even see you. Just let me kill myself.
Oh I'm gonna do it right. I'm not gonna miss,
not gonna miss. So. But nonetheless, the guillotine idea that
(16:33):
Kelly brings up, I didn't read anywhere on Wikipedia where
there was a guillotine misfire or somehow it didn't cut
the tingle all the way through, and that was not listed.
So maybe we should make an appeal to our Attorney
General or to the General Assembly and the and our governor.
Since he was a former attorney general, let's bring back
the guillotine.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
I mean, the good, good, good old days called the Bible.
They had something called stoning now that takes a little
bit of time, take little bit of time, and I
don't know, I mean it wasn't always successful. Obviously Paul
was able to escape stoning, and several others were escaped stonings.
But I bet that was a miserable death. But look
(17:14):
this idea that you deserve a certain kind of painless death,
which doesn't even make sense. But the closest we can
get you to a painless death would be giving you
an injection where you're completely knocked out. At that point
you can do anything to somebody. That's how we're able
to do operations. You don't know when think about like,
(17:37):
I'm always amazed nowadays I've been amazed meeting older people,
and I say older, like a couple of weeks older
than me, who have had like knee replacements or hip replacements,
And I'm like, hold on, they cut your leg off.
They just cut it off, and then they cut it
(17:58):
and then they replace the knee. Yeah, and then they
put they and you don't even feel that, never felt it.
I didn't start feeling it till two or three days
after I woke up.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
I talked to you guys quite excited about being able
to watch the surgery go in place because they did
the local. So then when he replacement, and he did
both of them at the same time, one doctor. You
got a lot of confidence in a doctor when you're
going to do both of them. But he knows he
was a deer hunter, and he would process his own deer.
He says, just like just like a deer knee. Just
(18:28):
described it to me, just.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
Like a dear knee.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
Yeah, just cut it right there and cut it right. Hell,
I could have done It's what he said. Yeah, like, okay,
you know I'm not going to have you do my
knee replacement, but I'm glad to know you got a
big kick out of it.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
But he didn't feel anything.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Strangely enough, you should bring that up on this daye
because he told me that story when I was standing
in the line talking to him at the bank, and
halfway through the story, it dawned on me today's April first,
and I said, oh, come on, this is April first, man,
why are you telling me this? He said, no, no, no,
I'm dead serious. He pulled up the pants leg wanted
to show me some scars where they.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Yeah, so again, whatever that drug is that knocks you
all the way out?
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Yeah, I mean, I mean the dude knocked me out,
cut my skin on my throat, move my spinal cord
out of excuse me, move my vocal box first, my
learning out of the way. Then he moved my spinal
cord so that he could replace the disc in my neck,
and then sewed me back up.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
I couldn't tell you anything that happened.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
Yeah, and in the middle of all that, if you
had just slowly bled to death over a two or
three hour period, now, you would have never been the wiser.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
You bring up the it's not a deterrent, and that's
a good point.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
We're not trying to make it a deterrent.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
We don't think that these guys have even the cut.
But if they knew that we were actually gonna recreate
what you did to somebody to kill them, at some point,
they would have to think, Okay, I'm gonna shoot this
guy in the face. Then I'm going to put him
in the trunk of the car. Then I'm going to
set the car on fire. At some point, even the
(20:08):
most criminal criminal minds would think if I get caught,
this is exactly.
Speaker 3 (20:13):
What they're going to do to me.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Or as you're premeditatively planning how you're going to kill somebody,
you would have to have the thought process of if
they catch me, I'm going to go through this exact
same thing.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
I don't know that they would. I mean, it was
it you yesterday or maybe a couple of days ago.
We were talking about something and you're just talking about
how animals act instinctively. They don't. They don't think about it, like,
what is their effect going to be on the bunny population?
When the wolf eats that bunny? Now there's going to
be a bunny without a mommy bunny or a daddy
(20:47):
bunny or whatever. They're just thinking, I'm hungry.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
I don't have a criminal mind, so I can't answer
that question, Thank you, Lord Jesus. I have my dark
side I have to deal with, but it's none of that.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
Yeah, So they they have been broken to the point
these look I'm not saying whatever their background is, it's
clearly messed way the hell up. You got in a
position where your brain is so broken that you don't
flinch at shooting somebody in the face while they're checking
your ID. You don't flinch like I mean, there's so
(21:17):
many horrible crimes that are going on out there. Whoever,
these people are are very broken people, and they deserve
your sympathy. They are really scary people who probably are
going to hell. We got all that, right, So I
have empathy, sympathy whatever you want to say for their
(21:37):
current situations. You were molested as a child, your father
ignored you or beat you senseless, and now here you
are raping and murdering people. Okay, well we're not going
to have you in society. No, that's not happening. I
mean this guy, if I remember right, this individual, he
killed another guy in prison, didn't he? So I mean
(21:58):
it's not like it's stopped.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Oh no, no, no, wouldn't stop.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
I mean he's a killer.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
He's put him in prison with other people in prison,
so he'll kill the other prisoner.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
Let's see, here we go. Oh. This was on the
morning of December two, two thousand and nine, the third
year of his incarceration on death row. Macal Mady and
another condemned serial killer named Quincy Allen plotted to kill
the correctional officer at the Lieber Correctional Institution. As part
of their plan, they removed metal strips from the air
ducks made some makeshift knives. Afterwards, they approached the prison
(22:30):
officer named Nathan Sassar, asking him if they could play
on the basketball court. After Assassar escorted the pair to
the court, Madi and Allen then attacked him, stabbing him
multiple times before they attempted to escape by climbing through
the fence. That escape attempt failed after the other prison
staff subdued the pair by firing teargas and Robert bullets
at them. Sassar managed to survive that stabbing and was
(22:53):
taken to MUSC for treatment. And I mean, look, obviously
this guy now they're talking about what happened to him afterwards.
That dude is an a miserable mental state as well.
I don't think he's is he killing anybody since the assault,
since since they stabbed him after he was trying to
be nice. Oh you you guys want all right, Yeah,
I'll let you two guys play basketball. Let me help
(23:13):
you out. He's helping them out and they try to
kill him. I mean that's who they are.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
So after the prison guard was attacked and abused in
such a fashion. Did we know that the prison guard,
because he was abused, went on to then commit crimes himself.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
That's what I'm saying. He didn't become a murderer. No,
I mean they said, I think he had to retire
for as a PTSD, which I have no doubt about.
It would be miserable. Let's see. He subsequently charged with
the assault for the stabbing incident. Both men were already
sentenced to death. The prosecution eventually dropped those charges because
there's nothing else we can do to you, yep. And
the aftermath Allan continue to appeal his death sentences, and eventually,
(23:53):
in twenty twenty two, Allan's death sentence was overturned by
a federal appellate court, and in twenty twenty twenty four,
Allen was recent to life. So the other guy, Quincy Allen,
not going to die for that or for any of
his other murders. So that's what Mikhail Maddy and his
team are hoping for, that we can somehow overturn this
(24:13):
death sentence. Then you're not going to retry him on
the the attempted murder of the prison guard. Just let's
get him life in prison. Can we just get him
life in prison? Now? I get it.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
There's a great conflict here. Even Sally when she was
watching the news yesterday about the illegal who killed and
an older woman in Georgia and then just I guess
told the police how we did it. Apparently tried to
knock her out and she was down, and he put
her his knee on her neck and put all his
(24:44):
weight on it until she could not breathe anymore. And
Sally's outraged, you know, but one of the things she
will say is that, but you know, he was probably
abused as a child. I'm like, I get it, don't care,
do not care?
Speaker 3 (24:59):
I mean I care, but you look, you're all responsible
for your actions. Right. Whatever abuses or neglect you suffered
as a child may be horrific, but what you do
as an adult, you have the ability to overcome that.
Whether you're a believer in Christ or not, you have
(25:20):
the ability to rework your mind. If you don't do
that and you become a terror to society, yes, society
has decided we will kill you to keep society safe.
That and we're talking about even prisoners. They attack prison.
(25:40):
So if you were laying. One of the guy we
mentioned earlier, you did an armed robbery, you got nine
years in federal prisoner or whatever. That guy needs to
be protected from these freaks.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Same reason we have speeding laws and other traffic laws.
We same reason we have laws AT's stopping in a
red light. But my cousin used to say, my ass
is out here, don't be wrong, don't be running into me.
We gotta have some damn law in order around here
on what happens between the ditches.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
You're unrehabilitatable now.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
As they gave the list, and this guy had a
laundry list, like ten different charges. They had him with kidnapping, YadA, YadA, YadA,
and then it got down to like rape and murder,
and then the last one on the list was necrophilia.
And Sally's looking at the list, at the list, and
we're talking about nicrophilia, and that's what triggered her. She said, oh,
hell no, he's got to die. Oh that was the
(26:31):
that was Now he's crossed her line.
Speaker 4 (26:33):
I said, well, I don't know if he's gonna die
or not, but he's going to Venezuela. All I know
is and we we still had to come to the
other argument that's going to be laid. I guess back
at the court, as we have a now thirty five
year average of people making their appeals to judges on
whether they should be executed or not. We got a
(26:55):
guy that's gonna claim that his laws don't even apply
to him.
Speaker 3 (26:59):
Oh, you're talking about the fellaw who got into a
police shootout after he basically said, I am a sovereign state,
unto myself, he said, and that's why he ended up
murdering a cop who came to try to put some
sort of paperwork in his hands or whatever. And so,
because he still believes that he's a sovereign state, he
(27:20):
does not recognize South Carolina's authority over him, which his
defense attorneys are now saying, proves that you can't his
defense cannot have a competent conversation with him because he's
not competent.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
He doesn't even recognize you as your authority, and so
why about to have a conversation with you?
Speaker 3 (27:40):
So he's they want him to be able to sit
in prison the rest of his life.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
Now, are you going to do his claim that you're
your own sovereign country, I am my own continent. I
am my own country. I mean, you must release me now.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
To me, it's really about the act. If you've done
an act that society deems is going too far, your
reason for the act unless the reason is well, I
mean like if you murdered a child, but the child
was trying to murder you. You know it's a self
defense thing or something. Sure, then no, I don't you know,
obviously we don't kill people for self defense. I'm trying
(28:14):
to come up with an excuse as to why you
could go on a killing spree, particularly with police officers.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
Well, like the guy explained yesterday on the TikTok video,
if the Ice agents pull up and they got their
guns drawn, shoot to kill because you don't know who
they are. They're wearing dark clothing, they're not you know,
you don't know who they are. They could be there.
It could be a gang member that you don't know
who they are. Shoot the Ice agents. I learned that
on a TikTok video.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
Yeah, I would say that's horrible advice.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
That guy was not an attorney. Do not listen to him.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
Yeah, that doesn't help you in court
Welcome to the Jonathan and Kelly Show.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Jonathan Rush someone who actually stole four hundred thousand Social
Security numbers and personal information from the Social Security.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Database, Kelly Nash in order for.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
People to basically steal money from Social Security, basically get
people to get the factor registered to vote and to
get a bunch of benefits, make care, unemployment, IRS refunds.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
The Jonathan and Kelly Show doubledo.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
And supposedly there's going to be a major arrest to
be made. I hope he's I hope he's not just
speaking out of the top of his hat. Because if
you've got someone that you can pin four hundred thousand
numbers and other information that was then used to somehow,
as he said, defraud the government of payments through Social Security, Medicaid, Medicare, disability,
(00:54):
and then an even larger crime if you use that
to allow illegals to register to vote. That would be
a huge day for Doge.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Well, I don't know that it's just going to be
one individual with the four hundred thousands. I mean, what
if you stole ten numbers. I mean, whoever it is
needs to do some serious Let's get them to el Salvador,
whoever he or she may be. But they were boring
a topeak. I don't give a you know. I was
just commenting on one of our Senator Matt Leeber's got
(01:31):
a video up of the military operation last night where
they deported seventeen murderers from Trend de Agua and MS
thirteen down to that El Salvadoran prison. And you know,
we've seen some of the clips over here on television,
but this is the full video of them getting off
the plane and being transferred over to the L Salvador
(01:53):
prison guards. And then they push your head down and
they shave your head, and then they put you in
the cell and you're all sleep being on top of
each other, and you're all in cuffs and whatnot forever,
it seems. And I was saying when I was a kid,
that's how I imagined prison was gonna be. If if
you had to go to prison, right, I imagined, all
(02:15):
rights are over all, any chance of happiness has been
taken from you. And yet here in America, specifically in
South Carolina, we're trying to figure out how to stop
our prisoners from putting TikTok videos out. We can't stop
them from doing TikTok dance trends.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Apparently we've given them all the entertainment we thought it
would take to keep them from doing their TikTok trainings.
But you know, just having the game room with the
television and everything, that's not enough.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Send them all to El Salvador, or bring El Salvador.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Here, and you know that instinctively, there's a whole different
app there's a different atmosphere when you step off of
the plane. Because they showed some of the guys that
are in the buses, and those dudes were already in
a seat with their head down. I mean they were like,
I don't know what they told them and what language
they spoke, but it was clearly understood.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
They probably just saw some of those videos, because I
mean when you look at those videos, even ones that
just Christy Nome did, was it last week? Yep? I mean,
it looks like the most miserable place on earth would
be that El Salvador in prison.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
All those guys standing there looking at her.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
And there's nothing you can I mean, they can't do anything.
They're in shackles, like oh, sometimes.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
It's not play plainly, don't eyeball him no, and if
you die, you die a blackjack to that eye. Yeah,
who's gonna sue the El Salvador president. He's like, I
built this prison to kill you people. And I was
pondering out loud, I can't believe that there's actually the
goodness in the heart to allow these people to live
the way these guys are treated. You thought that it
be marched out, made them to dig a trench and
(03:47):
stand in front of it while we shoot you and
did just cover you up.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
It was interesting. They did have an interview I want
to say, about a month or two ago that I
saw in somewhere our social media summer YouTube or whatever
with one of the guys who's in that, and he
was talking about how he got involved in gang life
and how he went down the path and by the
time he was like thirteen, he'd committed his first murder,
(04:11):
and you know, by sixteen he he'd kind of risen
to like middle management of the gang down there in
El Salvador or whatever, and how they made their money
and what the value system was and all of that stuff.
And then he said, you know, ironically, I'm basically I
live twenty miles now from where I grew up and
(04:32):
I will be in this prison till I die, and
I think it's a good thing. And the interviewer was like,
you think it's a good thing, and he says, well, look,
if I was to get back out, I really negatively
impacted that community. Those people have an opportunity now to
live a good life because people like me are not there. Well,
(04:54):
I was a broken person, and everybody in this gang
and everybody in this prison is a very broken person
who all we can do is harm each other. So
now we can't even harm each other because we're just
chained to each other constantly.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
I'm like, wow, Kelly, I'd like to correlate this to
a South Carolina story. We've been reading about Michale and
I've forgotten his last time because I don't had a
story in front of me. The guy who chose, I
guess in the past couple of days, and he will
in fact choose the firing squad as the methodology for
his death row execution. H But I think it's like
(05:28):
the first or second, second or third paragraph in the article,
his attorney says, one of the reasons why this man
ended up on death row. Now I know you're going
to bring it up that he killed a police officer,
shot a guy, put him in a trunk, says his
body on fire.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
I don't know all that.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Okay, so that's I get it. But his attorney wants
us to have another consideration. Oh what's that, Well that
as a youngster, he came from a broken family and
his father was abusive. Okay, Now, I don't what you're
describing to me in the interview is that guy Roy
recognized he was a broken person who has a tendency
towards violent crimes. This judge, they think that the judge
(06:06):
would have actually ruled differently if he had known that
as a child, this youngster suffered great stress and distress
and I'm sure of physical abuse, maybe pure emotional abuse. See,
but we would need to let him go. Well, if
his attorney would say let him go, but certainly take
him off a death row. He was as a child,
(06:26):
he had challenges that it was not that those challenges
weren't allowed to be vocalized in the court of all.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
I'm just wondering, like so when people have that argument,
I'm always interested in knowing what is the goal here?
So is the goal rehabilitation? Because there are people who
are rehabilitated through the prison system. So if you're going
to prison because you've committed a crime and they believe
(06:55):
they can rehabilitate you. You were a bank robber, perhaps you're
childhood had an effect on that, and you did whatever
you did. You arm robbed something, and you did nine
years in a federal prison or a state prison, and
through that you were able to see the errors of
your ways and you corrected that. And now you're thirty
eight years old and you're you know, you're going to
(07:18):
have a rough road. It's going to be certainly a
lot rougher than if you hadn't gone to prison for
nine years. But you can get out and make a
life for yourself. Okay, I'm all for that. I'm all
for the second chances. But even the Bible talks about
there are certain times when you've gone too far, even
for God himself to pardon you. You've crossed a line.
(07:42):
Now I'm not saying where that line is, but as
a society, we have made a decision that there are
certain crimes that you have crossed the line where rehabilitation
is no longer an option. Punishment must be death. That
was society's choice. You don't like society's choice, you can
(08:03):
campaign outside of these individuals and try to change the law.
But the law is the law.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
And for a long time we heard that some of
those lines were barriers that you had crossed over and say,
killing a police officer, because if you don't have any
respect for authority, you certainly don't have any respect for
a regular citizen, you become more of a threat to
the general public. Plainly, in the past ten years we've
seen where one party in particular encourages violence against police officers.
(08:31):
Then it used to be that if you committed a
crime against a child, we would hear stories supposedly that
even hardened criminals in prison would have a special punishment
for guys who were pedophiles or otherwise harmed or killed
a child. That plainly has been a rased out of
the consciousness of our criminal codes, or at least the
(08:52):
persons who are currently convicted, because God, look at many
crimes we can against kids these days. And we got
one party in particular, was it just by all that
with your boy, your man.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
Love, what do they call that? On man Love Thursday?
Man Love Thursday, that's out in the some of the
Middle Eastern countries.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
You know, it's not like sodomy is a new crime either.
I mean, I didn't even realize that when sodomy was
like a crime that was first deemed to sin against
man on man, it was not a crime if you
were sodomizing persons from another tribe, another village, different culture,
different country. So if you have male prisoners, then you
(09:33):
would sodomize them. You wouldn't sodomize your own citizens. Can
I stay at a consciousness of that even in biblical times?
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Is there a chance that I can opt out of that?
I don't want to be on either side of that.
All right, your job this week to sodomize all the prisoners,
can I get I don't want that duty? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Can I just work the concession stand?
Speaker 3 (09:54):
So, just in the interest of just bringing out this fella, right,
So what's his name again, Michel Maddy, whatever his name is.
In two thousand and four, he was only just a
lad of twenty one years old. He stole a three
eighty from his neighbor, stole his car, and stole a
set of Virginia license plates to make the car not
(10:15):
look like the stolen vehicle so that's part of the plan,
and then he drove to North Carolina. The next day,
in Winston Salem, he entered a convenience store picked up
a can of beer. When the twenty nine year old
clerk asked him for identification, he checked it. While he
was looking at the man's id, he pulled out the gun,
(10:37):
put it in his face, laughed, and blew his head off. Okay,
so that's how the whole That's how he started the day.
On July fourteenth, two thousand and four. After murdering him,
he then attempted to open the cash register and steal money,
but he couldn't, so then he just grabbed a couple
more beers, got in the car and kept coming south.
(10:57):
He then arrives in South Carolina, where he armed himself
with another gun after he murdered cop James Myers. So
now he's murdered a police officer. He then takes that
gun from the cop and he tries to carjack somebody
named Corey Pitts in downtown Columbia. He steals Pitt's car,
(11:18):
replaced the car license plate again, and heads southeast. Thirty
five minutes later, he goes into a gas station tries
to buy gas with a credit card, the pump rejects it.
He then it goes nuts. He then shoots up the
gas station and attempts to flee on foot. He then
arrived in Calhoun County, hiding in a local farm, where
(11:41):
he spent the day watching TV and examining the gun's
collections stored inside the farm's workshop with that owned by
another farmer who was celebrating his birthday of his daughter
and sister at a wife at the beach. Well, when
he came home, he got a twenty two caliber blew
that dude away. So he's just killing and just stealing
(12:04):
and doing whatever he wants to do. He then tries
to flee. He stole another vehicle, tries to get the Florida.
They were able to catch them. The FBI brings him back,
blah blah blah. Well, I mean, I don't think any
of that stuff because especially some of it's on camera.
None of that's really in doubt. Now, the defense brings
(12:26):
up their client has a troubled childhood, was raised without
a mother and the father neglected both not Madi and
his older brother, and he himself was the victim of
circumstances that led him to going astray and then becoming
a criminal, and then they bring in all this now again,
I'm sorry that happened to you. When you commit a crime.
(12:49):
When they say hurt people, hurt people. Okay, I understand
that to mean emotionally we hurt people. But it's but
if you're talking about emotionally hurt people, because obviously he
wasn't murdered by his father. If his father had murdered him,
he wouldn't be able to murder anybody. His father emotionally
(13:10):
abused him, and he might have physically abused him to
some level, but he never killed them. So when you
kill somebody, you have crossed a line. When you kill
a cop, you have crossed another line. When you kill
a child, you've crossed another line. You just keep crossing lines,
and we as society have decided we are not going
to tolerate that, and we're not even trying. I know
(13:32):
some people are like, well, doesn't deter anybody.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
Don't care.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
We're not trying to deter you. If you have got
it in your mind that you're going to murder a cop,
you are going to die. And it shouldn't be a
pleasant death. The fact that we give them three options
electric chair, firing squad, or lethal injection, and then their
lawyers are going to piss and moan about you know,
(13:58):
I don't know. It looks like it took too long,
along with the lethal injection, and then the nobody wants
to go on the electric sofa.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
I did learn something from the attorney when he said
there's no death penalty execution method that's one hundred fool proof,
and I thought, you know, I've never considered that before.
Let me do a Google search. How many times do
we try to kill somebody and we as a society,
no matter which state it is, or maybe it's a
federal charge. I don't know, just didn't quite get it
done right. It's a bad day at the office that day.
(14:26):
It's a bunch of them.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
Now, has the guillotine ever failed?
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Now, as we look at the opportunity, some guy, even
with the firing squad, took him about ten minutes to
bleed out, So they didn't hit him.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
Why didn't they just fire again? Right, just keep pumping
him full of He's gonna die of lead poisoning. Let's
keep it going.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
So as we look at now we've got the doctors
who are saying it takes too long to die because
of the lethal injections, and because of the shield laws,
you can't get the actual description or the samples of
the products that we're using. And now you're actually people
are drowning to death because their lungs are filling up
with fluid as opposed to a peaceful death, while at
(15:09):
the same time recognizing they're totally unconscious so they don't
know that they're drowning, even if that was an accurate description.
And maybe I'm misapplying that word in this context. I
don't know. I don't care. Then the other one is
the electric chair. Now we've all seen the green mile.
We know if you don't follow the procedure then that
can lead to a mess, So I get it. But
(15:31):
still running electricsitly through your body at that rate for
that amount of time at that amperage is certainly going
to make your heart beat real fast for a while
and then stop. Then the other one, of course, with
the fiery squad. Now, I don't know why they picked
out some of the five worse shots in whatever state
they carry that out, but they did. I don't think
we'd have a hard time finding people in our law
(15:53):
enforcement that actually hit the target. I mean they put
a cross here, right over the guy's heart. I think
they'd have the doctor actually place it there. I mean,
you got a great target. You're fifteen twenty feet away.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
Why do you gotta be so far away? Can I
just walk right up and put my gun right into
his chest and just boom? I think a lot of
people would like to look this guy in the eye.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
I got to tell you something, if I were going
to be going to death throw, I would say, please
just give me a revolver with one bullet one and
you know, all of you can stand in the other room.
I can't even see you. Just let me kill myself.
Oh I'm gonna do it right. I'm not gonna miss,
not gonna miss. So. But nonetheless, the guillotine idea that
(16:33):
Kelly brings up, I didn't read anywhere on Wikipedia where
there was a guillotine misfire or somehow it didn't cut
the tingle all the way through, and that was not listed.
So maybe we should make an appeal to our Attorney
General or to the General Assembly and the and our governor.
Since he was a former attorney general, let's bring back
the guillotine.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
I mean, the good, good, good old days called the Bible.
They had something called stoning now that takes a little
bit of time, take little bit of time, and I
don't know, I mean it wasn't always successful. Obviously Paul
was able to escape stoning, and several others were escaped stonings.
But I bet that was a miserable death. But look
(17:14):
this idea that you deserve a certain kind of painless death,
which doesn't even make sense. But the closest we can
get you to a painless death would be giving you
an injection where you're completely knocked out. At that point
you can do anything to somebody. That's how we're able
to do operations. You don't know when think about like,
(17:37):
I'm always amazed nowadays I've been amazed meeting older people,
and I say older, like a couple of weeks older
than me, who have had like knee replacements or hip replacements,
And I'm like, hold on, they cut your leg off.
They just cut it off, and then they cut it
(17:58):
and then they replace the knee. Yeah, and then they
put they and you don't even feel that, never felt it.
I didn't start feeling it till two or three days
after I woke up.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
I talked to you guys quite excited about being able
to watch the surgery go in place because they did
the local. So then when he replacement, and he did
both of them at the same time, one doctor. You
got a lot of confidence in a doctor when you're
going to do both of them. But he knows he
was a deer hunter, and he would process his own deer.
He says, just like just like a deer knee. Just
(18:28):
described it to me, just.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
Like a dear knee.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
Yeah, just cut it right there and cut it right. Hell,
I could have done It's what he said. Yeah, like, okay,
you know I'm not going to have you do my
knee replacement, but I'm glad to know you got a
big kick out of it.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
But he didn't feel anything.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Strangely enough, you should bring that up on this daye
because he told me that story when I was standing
in the line talking to him at the bank, and
halfway through the story, it dawned on me today's April first,
and I said, oh, come on, this is April first, man,
why are you telling me this? He said, no, no, no,
I'm dead serious. He pulled up the pants leg wanted
to show me some scars where they.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Yeah, so again, whatever that drug is that knocks you
all the way out?
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Yeah, I mean, I mean the dude knocked me out,
cut my skin on my throat, move my spinal cord
out of excuse me, move my vocal box first, my
learning out of the way. Then he moved my spinal
cord so that he could replace the disc in my neck,
and then sewed me back up.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
I couldn't tell you anything that happened.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
Yeah, and in the middle of all that, if you
had just slowly bled to death over a two or
three hour period, now, you would have never been the wiser.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
You bring up the it's not a deterrent, and that's
a good point.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
We're not trying to make it a deterrent.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
We don't think that these guys have even the cut.
But if they knew that we were actually gonna recreate
what you did to somebody to kill them, at some point,
they would have to think, Okay, I'm gonna shoot this
guy in the face. Then I'm going to put him
in the trunk of the car. Then I'm going to
set the car on fire. At some point, even the
(20:08):
most criminal criminal minds would think if I get caught,
this is exactly.
Speaker 3 (20:13):
What they're going to do to me.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Or as you're premeditatively planning how you're going to kill somebody,
you would have to have the thought process of if
they catch me, I'm going to go through this exact
same thing.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
I don't know that they would. I mean, it was
it you yesterday or maybe a couple of days ago.
We were talking about something and you're just talking about
how animals act instinctively. They don't. They don't think about it, like,
what is their effect going to be on the bunny population?
When the wolf eats that bunny? Now there's going to
be a bunny without a mommy bunny or a daddy
(20:47):
bunny or whatever. They're just thinking, I'm hungry.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
I don't have a criminal mind, so I can't answer
that question, Thank you, Lord Jesus. I have my dark
side I have to deal with, but it's none of that.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
Yeah, So they they have been broken to the point
these look I'm not saying whatever their background is, it's
clearly messed way the hell up. You got in a
position where your brain is so broken that you don't
flinch at shooting somebody in the face while they're checking
your ID. You don't flinch like I mean, there's so
(21:17):
many horrible crimes that are going on out there. Whoever,
these people are are very broken people, and they deserve
your sympathy. They are really scary people who probably are
going to hell. We got all that, right, So I
have empathy, sympathy whatever you want to say for their
(21:37):
current situations. You were molested as a child, your father
ignored you or beat you senseless, and now here you
are raping and murdering people. Okay, well we're not going
to have you in society. No, that's not happening. I
mean this guy, if I remember right, this individual, he
killed another guy in prison, didn't he? So I mean
(21:58):
it's not like it's stopped.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Oh no, no, no, wouldn't stop.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
I mean he's a killer.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
He's put him in prison with other people in prison,
so he'll kill the other prisoner.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
Let's see, here we go. Oh. This was on the
morning of December two, two thousand and nine, the third
year of his incarceration on death row. Macal Mady and
another condemned serial killer named Quincy Allen plotted to kill
the correctional officer at the Lieber Correctional Institution. As part
of their plan, they removed metal strips from the air
ducks made some makeshift knives. Afterwards, they approached the prison
(22:30):
officer named Nathan Sassar, asking him if they could play
on the basketball court. After Assassar escorted the pair to
the court, Madi and Allen then attacked him, stabbing him
multiple times before they attempted to escape by climbing through
the fence. That escape attempt failed after the other prison
staff subdued the pair by firing teargas and Robert bullets
at them. Sassar managed to survive that stabbing and was
(22:53):
taken to MUSC for treatment. And I mean, look, obviously
this guy now they're talking about what happened to him afterwards.
That dude is an a miserable mental state as well.
I don't think he's is he killing anybody since the assault,
since since they stabbed him after he was trying to
be nice. Oh you you guys want all right, Yeah,
I'll let you two guys play basketball. Let me help
(23:13):
you out. He's helping them out and they try to
kill him. I mean that's who they are.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
So after the prison guard was attacked and abused in
such a fashion. Did we know that the prison guard,
because he was abused, went on to then commit crimes himself.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
That's what I'm saying. He didn't become a murderer. No,
I mean they said, I think he had to retire
for as a PTSD, which I have no doubt about.
It would be miserable. Let's see. He subsequently charged with
the assault for the stabbing incident. Both men were already
sentenced to death. The prosecution eventually dropped those charges because
there's nothing else we can do to you, yep. And
the aftermath Allan continue to appeal his death sentences, and eventually,
(23:53):
in twenty twenty two, Allan's death sentence was overturned by
a federal appellate court, and in twenty twenty twenty four,
Allen was recent to life. So the other guy, Quincy Allen,
not going to die for that or for any of
his other murders. So that's what Mikhail Maddy and his
team are hoping for, that we can somehow overturn this
(24:13):
death sentence. Then you're not going to retry him on
the the attempted murder of the prison guard. Just let's
get him life in prison. Can we just get him
life in prison? Now? I get it.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
There's a great conflict here. Even Sally when she was
watching the news yesterday about the illegal who killed and
an older woman in Georgia and then just I guess
told the police how we did it. Apparently tried to
knock her out and she was down, and he put
her his knee on her neck and put all his
(24:44):
weight on it until she could not breathe anymore. And
Sally's outraged, you know, but one of the things she
will say is that, but you know, he was probably
abused as a child. I'm like, I get it, don't care,
do not care?
Speaker 3 (24:59):
I mean I care, but you look, you're all responsible
for your actions. Right. Whatever abuses or neglect you suffered
as a child may be horrific, but what you do
as an adult, you have the ability to overcome that.
Whether you're a believer in Christ or not, you have
(25:20):
the ability to rework your mind. If you don't do
that and you become a terror to society, yes, society
has decided we will kill you to keep society safe.
That and we're talking about even prisoners. They attack prison.
(25:40):
So if you were laying. One of the guy we
mentioned earlier, you did an armed robbery, you got nine
years in federal prisoner or whatever. That guy needs to
be protected from these freaks.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Same reason we have speeding laws and other traffic laws.
We same reason we have laws AT's stopping in a
red light. But my cousin used to say, my ass
is out here, don't be wrong, don't be running into me.
We gotta have some damn law in order around here
on what happens between the ditches.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
You're unrehabilitatable now.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
As they gave the list, and this guy had a
laundry list, like ten different charges. They had him with kidnapping, YadA, YadA, YadA,
and then it got down to like rape and murder,
and then the last one on the list was necrophilia.
And Sally's looking at the list, at the list, and
we're talking about nicrophilia, and that's what triggered her. She said, oh,
hell no, he's got to die. Oh that was the
(26:31):
that was Now he's crossed her line.
Speaker 4 (26:33):
I said, well, I don't know if he's gonna die
or not, but he's going to Venezuela. All I know
is and we we still had to come to the
other argument that's going to be laid. I guess back
at the court, as we have a now thirty five
year average of people making their appeals to judges on
whether they should be executed or not. We got a
(26:55):
guy that's gonna claim that his laws don't even apply
to him.
Speaker 3 (26:59):
Oh, you're talking about the fellaw who got into a
police shootout after he basically said, I am a sovereign state,
unto myself, he said, and that's why he ended up
murdering a cop who came to try to put some
sort of paperwork in his hands or whatever. And so,
because he still believes that he's a sovereign state, he
(27:20):
does not recognize South Carolina's authority over him, which his
defense attorneys are now saying, proves that you can't his
defense cannot have a competent conversation with him because he's
not competent.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
He doesn't even recognize you as your authority, and so
why about to have a conversation with you?
Speaker 3 (27:40):
So he's they want him to be able to sit
in prison the rest of his life.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
Now, are you going to do his claim that you're
your own sovereign country, I am my own continent. I
am my own country. I mean, you must release me now.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
To me, it's really about the act. If you've done
an act that society deems is going too far, your
reason for the act unless the reason is well, I
mean like if you murdered a child, but the child
was trying to murder you. You know it's a self
defense thing or something. Sure, then no, I don't you know,
obviously we don't kill people for self defense. I'm trying
(28:14):
to come up with an excuse as to why you
could go on a killing spree, particularly with police officers.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
Well, like the guy explained yesterday on the TikTok video,
if the Ice agents pull up and they got their
guns drawn, shoot to kill because you don't know who
they are. They're wearing dark clothing, they're not you know,
you don't know who they are. They could be there.
It could be a gang member that you don't know
who they are. Shoot the Ice agents. I learned that
on a TikTok video.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
Yeah, I would say that's horrible advice.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
That guy was not an attorney. Do not listen to him.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
Yeah, that doesn't help you in court
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