October 1, 2024 • 33 mins
Ever wonder why certain relationship patterns keep replaying in your life? Join us on Redefining Normal this week as we uncover the deep-seated roots of our attachment styles and how they shape our interactions with loved ones. Jamie kicks off with a heartfelt story of a recent breakup, shedding light on how our childhood experiences influence whether we become anxiously attached or avoidant in our adult relationships. Together, we navigate these familiar yet often toxic patterns, emphasizing the significance of self-awareness and emotional sovereignty to foster secure, healthier connections.
Our journey continues as we dive into the complex web linking our nervous system to our emotional experiences. Life's curveballs like breakups can send our nervous system into overdrive, but don’t worry—we’ve got practical strategies to bring it back into balance. We discuss the transformative power of breathwork, slowing down, and being present with our bodily sensations. Jamie also explores primal play and physical activities to release stored trauma, underlining the need for safety and awareness when engaging in these profound somatic practices to unlock and integrate deep-seated emotions.
Finally, we turn our focus to the stories our minds craft and their impact on our wellbeing. It's easy to get tangled in narratives that fuel anxiety and conflict. We delve into the art of recognizing these mental traps and redirecting our focus to our bodily sensations, a process that helps us stay grounded and connected. Understanding where our stories manifest physically can prevent unnecessary stress and tension in our relationships. Our conversation wraps up by encouraging a mindful approach to our emotional states, paving the way for more authentic connections. Don't forget to join the conversation on social media or via email and share your experiences with us!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to redefining normal.
Join us as we questionconventional thinking and talk
about the courage it takes tocreate and live a deliciously
vibrant life.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
This podcast is for people who know there's a better
way to do life and love how weshow up in connection to others
our kids, our partners, ourbusiness and, beyond that, our
relationship with money,vitality and, more than anything
, ourselves.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
We're two shamelessly unapologetic moms choosing to
experience the fullness of life.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
And we're collapsing the conditioning that says you
can't live a life of pleasure,peace and abundance in the midst
of the mundane of life,responsibilities, work and kids.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Are you ready?
Let's do this this week.
Jamie and I are super excitedto have a conversation with you
about something that might sounda little bit boring but I think
is really freaking important,which is attachment styles.
But we're really wanting tokind of hone in on secure
attachment and what that is.
Some of you may have heard thisbefore.
(01:04):
Some of you may not have heardthis before, so we're going to
kind of um, take you throughthis and the importance of this
and why we're having aconversation about it right now.
So can I actually?
Speaker 2 (01:17):
I'll start and say why we're having the
conversation now and then we'lltake you through this um through
this process, cause I wouldlove for you to share what you
like, how you define it, what itmeans to you attachment, secure
attachment.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Yeah, okay, first let me just share why we're talking
about this and then and thenwe'll get into the details and
the nitty gritties.
Uh, so basically, what's goingon for me right now is, for
those of you I don't know ifwe've even talked about it that
there's been a breakup from theguy, the mystery guy that we've
been talking about, and it'sbeen a really intense process
because it was really shocking,and we're now at a place where,
(01:58):
interestingly enough, we havefound our way through to be able
to move through in a friendship, and it has taken every ounce
of my soul to really workthrough this on an internal
level.
And so the reason I'm talkingabout this is because this was
about attachment.
So attachment is when we reallyget into connecting with
(02:19):
another human right and it canbe other than humans too.
When we get out of this, youknow this experience but we
connect to another human, andthere can be other than humans
too.
When we get out of this, youknow this experience but we
connect to another human, andthere can be attachment styles
that are not actually healthy.
So, basically, it's based on ourfrom the way we were with our
parents, whether our parentsleft us or abandoned us or over
cuddled us or all thesedifferent ways that we have
attached or not attached to aparental figure in life or a
(02:41):
person who played as a parent inlife, and then how does that
play out later on in ourrelationships, in our we'll just
call it for here ourrelationships, right, and so for
me, right now, as I'm goingthrough this journey, as we
separate, it's about coming backinto this wholeness with myself
and creating a deeper level ofsovereignty in myself.
And Jamie and I were justtalking right before, because
(03:02):
Jamie has some some reallyfreaking amazing embodiment
things, and I was like OK, jamie, I'm at this place right now,
I've made it this far, but I'mstill feeling really
dysregulated in my nervoussystem, which is how, when we
have an anxious experiencebecause we're attached to a
human on an anxious level, rightit can feel really
(03:22):
dysregulating and uncomfortable.
Plus, there was this very fastseparation.
So I'm just moving through,like the separation in and of
itself, right, and so now I'mlike working on how do I come
back into my body in a betterway and hold myself and not and
be able to stay in peace withinmyself, because that's an us job
, right, and so this is how thisconversation started.
This is where we're at, jamie.
(03:43):
Do you want to add intoattachment?
Do you want to have anything tosay?
Speaker 2 (03:46):
because I've just no, I mean, I'm not an expert by
any means on like attachmenttheory and attachment styles.
I I, you know kind of vaguelyor high level, know um about,
you know, like, like, uh,anxious attachment and what that
(04:06):
looks like, um, and avoidantyeah, and how oftentimes they
end up together.
Kyle and I were very much sothat I was the anxious one, he
was the avoidant, um, and it'sinteresting because then when I
go avoidant he gets um, anxious.
You know it's, it's a polaritything and you kind of need both
(04:27):
to play that dynamic and createthe tension that feels familiar
in our nervous system.
Like carrie was saying, if youhad, you know, a parent that um,
yeah, like created thosedynamics with you as a child,
then they feel familiar and safein your body.
So you look to create them inyour romantic relationships or
(04:49):
friendship relationships orwhatever relationships you've
got going on.
Um, an anxious attachment, frommy understanding, tends to be
uh, leaned way forward, rightlike.
I need a lot of time, I need alot of energy, I need a lot of
reassurance, reassurance.
A lot of text messages,communication, yeah like
continual um connection and thenavoidant wants their own space,
(05:12):
wants you know, like doesn'twant to have to um give or
receive that um, they wantfreedom once.
Yeah, kind of oftentimes is umwhat's the commitment?
Phobic is like oftentimes thelabel that would look like with
that Right, yeah, and oftentimesthose two people find each
(05:34):
other, and you know each other'sbuttons and then create
attachment right to the dynamicand oftentimes relatively toxic
dynamics in in that relationship.
So, and I know that I mean, likeI said, that was Kyle and I for
a good chunk of our marriageand not that we aren't that way
(05:55):
ever now.
But we are aware when I'm, youknow I'm getting anxious or or
avoidant and you know it's likewe're aware that we're
navigating and moving throughthe various ways that we're
showing up for each other yeah,he and I were the same, I was.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
I'm anxious and he's avoidant.
Yeah and um, and I think I wantto say here to anyone who's
listening if you haven't heardthis before um, these things
it's like, ultimately I don'tthink they ever, fully, ever go
away.
I just think that you learn howto be in relationship with them
and support each other withlove, right, so so there's
certain things that is ananxious attachment, that it's
(06:30):
just like it becomes normal partof relating to the extent that
the other person is willing tolike meet you, right, and you
can always ask for your needs tobe met and then you can always
find your way, way throughthings.
And I think also the more thatwe start to learn, like Jamie
and I you know, both are at theplace of I can be aware of when
I'm being very anxious, like I'mlike Ooh, ah, I feel that
(06:53):
Carrie and I don't have to dothe thing right, I can hold
myself.
And this is where we start tocome into this place of the
secure attachment, right, sothat we can both notice and go
ah, wow, that's your anxiousattachment, carrie, and you can,
you can even call it like.
Sometimes I'll even say to mylike a partner right, like I'm
feeling really anxious right nowbecause of can you reassure
this Right?
And it's not then coming inthis like needy and if they
don't, whatever, like it's notbeing like you're this person,
(07:14):
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
I need this.
And then we're not hooking intoeach other's energy.
And it's like those places,like I know, when I've become
into anxious moments, I'm likejust hold yourself, carrie, like
you don't need that Right.
And the more that we do that,the more that we do that on
either side of this, whetherit's in the anxious side,
because you know, I experiencedthis, or the avoidance side,
(07:36):
where we want to run, because,definitely with my partners,
like sometimes, like it goes allright, well, he wants to run, I
want to over-communicate,where's the middle ground, right
?
Or they want to run and youwant to run, but it's like no,
we got to sit at the table andfigure this out, right.
And so we start to look atthese places where we're playing
into these patterns and we canchoose into different ways of
(07:58):
doing it.
And it starts with our ownjourney, with ourselves in
choosing to have this awarenessright, like if you guys again,
neither jamie nor I are expertsin this.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
We are just humans who are on the path and I think
too it's important to rememberit's a theory and incomplete.
You know, like there's lots ofdifferent ways this can show up
and like, if you identify withanxious, look at where you're
avoided like what are youactually like?
I don't want to talk about it,I don't want to commit to this,
I don't want to because, like inmy romantic relationship, I was
(08:29):
anxious mostly when I felt hewas avoided.
Then I wanted to like, lean inand force connection.
But then there are lots ofarenas where I'm just avoidant
and don't want to talk about it,don't want to look at it, don't
want to commit to something,don't want to, um, have it,
don't want to look at it, don'twant to commit to something,
don't want to have theconversation, whatever, whatever
that is.
So, yeah, you can start tounderstand your partner when you
(08:52):
can see where you do that thingand what drives it in you as
well.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
I think as well, like just having the awareness,
because there's times when, inany intimate relationship, I can
go both ways, like if you pushme enough, I'm going to fucking
avoid in a billion ways, yeahRight.
And and then I think, when youknow that, like I know, even
with with my ex, this lastpartner like I, we could
actually get to the place whereI was like if I'm in this place
and you see me do this, it'sbecause I went into a free state
(09:17):
and in my free state I'm notgoing to be able to communicate
with you unless you actually dothese things.
Yeah Right, I'm like, it's notbecause I don't want to, it's
not because whatever, but likeI'm in a total freeze state.
And so then you can also startto learn how do you be in
relationship to support eachother, to be able to communicate
at your best, yeah.
So I think and like Jamie said,I think this is really important
to note that it's like there isno like perfection in this, or
(09:39):
there is no like it's not the beall, end all, but the be all,
end all.
But I do think it helps toactually have that awareness
because it's not just in ourrelationships, like I would have
an anxious attachment to money.
I would have you know, likethese are these places you can
look at your money, you can lookat your health, you can look at
your own relationship withyourself and where you're doing
the same damn thing withyourself Right, and so it can
really help.
So right now I'm really curiousto know Jamie because, like
(10:06):
she's like we're like, uh,nervous system.
Can we just talk nervous systemembodiment things and how we
can actually settle when we havethese experiences that cause
I'm talking about shock in mybody, right, and I'm also
talking about coming home toself and I think, first of all,
both things can happenregardless of you know it was,
it was a breakup, but, like,regardless of the situation, we
have this and um, and also youdon't need shock for it to
(10:27):
happen, right, like our nervoussystems can get totally
dysregulated and we are also canbe very again this anxious
avoidant attachment.
So, even in a marriage 20 yearson, if your still nervous
system is still going cause minewas.
Yeah 17 years into a marriage.
Mine was way worse than it isnow.
Well, okay, in this moment it'spretty intense, but generally
speaking, yeah Right, yeah Right.
So, like these are these thingsthat we can really look at and
(10:49):
say how do we come back home andsettle this?
So go on and tell me somethings, help me out here.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
What do you think?
Yeah, I mean, I guess itdepends on where you're at in
your journey.
You know, I mean like for you,oftentimes just slowing down,
just slowing down.
Right, who was it?
Kelly Greeno just did like areel the other day and she was,
like, you know, pro parentingtip and she was just walking
along at a pace and then she'slike slow, slow down, like brush
(11:17):
your teeth slower, walk slower,talk slower.
You know the semantics of like,like breath work is miraculous
(11:38):
in a lot of ways, um, as well asit is.
It's interesting because it'slike you need to follow the
sensations in your body.
But your mind has to be a partof the process, because
oftentimes we can make themistake of like, um over
intellectualizing things andgetting into the story, getting
into the but why?
And because my dad and becausemy mom and because you know,
(12:01):
like, whatever, and we have leftour body in that.
But if we can follow the story,that's creating the anxiety or
the avoidance, and feel thesensations that are coming up in
our life.
It takes practice to do that, toengage the mind and not let it
(12:26):
run away with the story you know.
So it.
So it's like let it, let itguide the awareness of the
sensations that are showing upinternally and then to be able
to move those to it's it is.
It's like an acclimation or aum integration.
What were you used a wordearlier?
Um, like it's a capacity thing.
(12:47):
You know it's like your nervoussystem is literally like I don't
know what to do with this.
It's like a, like a wire that'srunning too much energy through
it.
That wants to short circuit,yes, and that we can slowly and
intentionally increase ourcapacity for what needs to move
through us.
So you know like when we moveour bodies, you know, like
(13:09):
animals, they shake off.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Oh, my God, it's been my.
By the way, for those of youlistening, I have been
obsessively loving going to playparties here that are like
they're not sex play parties,they're like we get primal in
play, and it is so fuckingdelicious to meet another human
in a safe space and I'm and I'msaying this because, like, we
have play parties here to dothis because I'm a single person
and this is something I'm doingright now to actually like
(13:34):
literally what you're saying, tomove this energy out of my body
, and it's so amazing to meetanother human in like fierce
ferociousness that you're likelet's go Right.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Where else do we do that in life ever?
Like most people do not have aspace where they can rage, where
they can scream, where they canpunch hard.
You know it's like bite.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Yeah, it doesn't, it doesn't exist, you know, and and
actually, so that's what I'msaying.
So, like you guys can invite,like I invite you, even if you
can look in your areas, likethis is I know I'm in denver and
it's a boulder area and we havegot all this kind of stuff and
it's really fucking wicked placeto live for this.
But look in your areas, youmight find it.
If you want, reach out to oneof us.
We might know people in yourarea that can lead you into
these paths.
(14:17):
But even still, like, justwrestle with your partner.
If you've got a partner right,like and it doesn't, you know
like get into those primalplaces because far out it feels
like and be aware that it mightbring stuff up.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
You know, like, so I, um, when I was little, my
stepdad would like hold me downand tickle me and so, like, the
first time, couple times,whatever that I would wrestle
and Kyle would hold me down, Iwould, I would feel so much rage
and I'm like like, oh, it's notKyle, he's bringing up somatic
memories that I have not fullyprocessed.
(14:53):
So like, it isn't always apleasant release.
Sometimes it will bring stuffup.
That's really uncomfortable.
But in allowing it to come upand to be felt and to move
through, means that you're nolonger holding it in your body
and trying to navigate normaland be like calm and be felt.
And to move through means thatyou're no longer holding it in
your body and trying to navigatenormal and be like calm and be
(15:13):
centered and have this um,regulated nervous system, while
it's trying to hold this traumathat you just haven't
acknowledged, you know yeah,yeah it's.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
It's an interesting experience to to have those
things move through I think, onthat note I want to add here
because I did say go, and onthat note I want to add here
because I did say go and do this.
But I think to add a safetypiece if you're going to allow
yourself the fullness of thisright, yeah, if you really truly
allow yourself the fullness ofthis release and you actually
have another human in your spacethat can can meet you in this
and who's willing to like go inthe wrestle, to go into the
(15:46):
primal play, to go into beingwith you in that space, yeah, um
, and like you don't have to bedeeply, like my ex did it with
me, he did it with me.
My ex-husband would wrestle andget me like yeah, let's go right
, yeah, um, but there's somereally great safety things that
you can use, which are like intantra, they use a speed light
red, yellow and green.
(16:06):
And so the green is like go,like, let's go, we're, we, we're
fucking going to go at this andhave fun and primally at it.
Yellow is like you've hit apoint to me where I'm getting to
the point of uncomfortable yeah, something's moving, like
something's moving, you'vetriggered something.
I'm not sure where I'm at.
Slow the fuck down, right.
And red is stop, right, fuckinghere, right.
(16:26):
And so if you've been triggered,then you get to have those, say
, because sometimes there'sgonna be nothing else that can
come out of your mouth in thesemoments and, um, it gives you a
safe way to play, right, and soyou can actually get ferocious,
like even if it gets too hard,right, like if you guys are
rustling and it gets too hard,you're like, hey, that's an 11,
like that's a yellow, stop, hey,right.
And so you have a way ofcommunicating.
(16:47):
And that's a yellow, stop, hey,right.
And so you have a way ofcommunicating and that's a great
way to communicate withsomebody who isn't aware of.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
I know that, like the first couple of times that and
even for me, like the firstcouple of times, not even just
physically but emotionally,things would get triggered, yeah
, and all of a sudden I would beangry at Kyle and he's like I
don't even.
I don't even know what I did,you know, and I had nothing to
do with him.
But it was bringing up my, myown stuff, and it was through
learning, somatics and healingwork and mindset work and all of
(17:16):
that that I started to realize,oh my gosh, I'm literally
projecting my trauma.
He's, he's playing the you know, placeholder for the story that
has nothing to do with him.
And so when we both started torecognize that it allowed us to
step out of you know theattachment dynamics we were
running yeah, totally so yeah,but animals, like when they,
(17:39):
when they have conflict, theyshake off the adrenaline, you
know, and humans don't do that.
Uh, it's one of my favorite yourbody shake, body shake your
hips.
One of my favorite.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
You'll see me shaking pretty much every day somewhere
in my day, and it's interestingbecause some of the things that
you would say as well likebreathwork.
So for me, quantum flow is myway of doing this and my
practice that I use and I teachwith my clients as well, and
(18:12):
there is like there's so manyways and like stomping your feet
, too, can be a really greatgrounding way to get your stuff
out of your, out of your bodySomething that you said earlier
too, by the way, that I wantedto add into.
You had said earlier somethingabout the stories in your mind
and letting them lead into yourbody.
Yeah, and the thing that I justwanted to add an extra piece to
that, because it's somethingthat I've really been working
with over the last year.
It's been a really importantpart of my process because I'm a
(18:34):
heady story person and Jamie'soften pulling me out of the
story Carrie, that's a fuckingstory.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
That's the shadow of my life's work is
intellectualizing things, soit's like I'm very familiar with
the mind's capacity to take uson a journey.
That is nonsense.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
It doesn't actually fucking help anybody, right?
So it's been part of my journey, and so one of the things I
actually ask myself when I getreally into the story and I can
notice, just like Jamie said, Inoticed that my body gets this.
I'm going to call it anxiety,but really it is just energy
that's moving right.
There is a lot of energy thatis in my body that needs to be
released, ultimately, or paidattention to or moved in some
(19:10):
way, shape or form Right.
And so the thing that I'lloften think of I'm like oh,
notice this right here.
So what's the story?
Does it really matter what thestory is?
And this is what Jamie said,but I want to bring this into a
really clear point here itdoesn't really matter what the
story said.
You just go okay, where is thestory in my body Exactly?
then where it is in your yeahright, what sensation is this
creating?
And then, what is it that Ineed to do to move this out?
Speaker 2 (19:33):
and it sometimes takes a while, the mind will
keep trying.
The mind will keep like yeah,but this happened.
Yeah, but he said, yeah, butyou have and then you go back to
and then you're right back outof your body.
I did this last last week, twoweeks ago, kyle and I don know,
like we were disagreeing onsomething and we whatever we
(19:54):
went our separate ways, did ourthing.
It wasn't anything major and mybody felt fine, like sensation
wise.
I was like over it, nothing.
My mind was like we haven'ttalked about that thing, he
hasn't apologized for that thing, or we haven't decided whatever
.
And I'm like, wow, my mind isliterally trying to take my body
out of contentment.
Fine, like let's just move on.
(20:15):
And it's like, no, we need to,we need to fight about this, we
need to have conflict, we needto sort it, we need to whatever.
And I'm like, wow, she keepstrying to pull me into a story
and a dynamic that reallydoesn't exist, it doesn't have
to exist.
And my mind is literallycreating conflict that does not
(20:35):
sensationally exist in my body.
And she's powerful.
That's what that's like, theprocess of kind of training your
mind to not run away, Becauseoftentimes that happens.
We're like, oh, yeah, yeah,yeah, wait a second, we didn't
resolve this conflict.
You know, it's like so easy togo into the story and to stay
there, um, and being able todetach from it, being able to
(20:58):
recognize.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
This is just thoughts , this is just story it's also
interesting because, you know,since we started this on
attachment, like hearing you saythat to me is really what I'm
starting to pay attention to alot in my mind is where do I
give my mind space to otherpeople?
Because now I'm attaching tosomething, or I'm thinking about
(21:19):
, or I'm even projecting or like.
Sometimes I even think like ifI'm trying to work this out and
figure this out with them in thespace of in between, it's
actually hooking into theirenergy.
Yeah Right, it's actually likewow, like how does that feel?
Yeah, right, or am I beingrespectful and so like it's even
like okay, is that respectfulto even be considering, like
you're trying to forward projectsomething that you couldn't
(21:39):
possibly fucking know?
So shut your mind up.
It doesn't even exist, right?
Like?
Speaker 2 (21:43):
literally just pretend.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Yeah, it's just so interesting, right, but it's
part of to me.
It is part of that attachment,because we're trying to find an
attachment to something to solvea problem, for ourselves to
feel better in our bodies, butreally what it has to come down
to is to come back into ourbodies.
I know I'm saying this becauseat some point this is going to
be a clip and I'm going to hearit exactly when you need it.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
You're talking to a future, a future, future self,
but it's true.
So think about this Like we wecreate story, then we explore
all the versions of that storyin order to feel prepared for
what could potentially happen.
Yeah, creating all kinds ofconflict, all kinds of potential
(22:25):
that do not exist.
It don't exist.
So so it's like, just go inwith the right here right now.
Let me hold myself and bepresent and respond or be with
whatever wants to happen rightnow, without trying to
preemptively plan for it or, um,figure out what I'm going to
(22:46):
say or do.
If he does this and if he doesthat and if that's like, you are
creating so much tension andanxiety and stress in your body
that that is, pretend it doesn'texist.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
This is literally where I've been and this is
literally what Jamie's been withme on.
Carrie, stop, I love you, stopRight.
But it's so interesting because, even in that, I love you, stop
Right.
But it's so interesting because, even in that, when I think of
my marriage, I think of how farI've come, because because in
that, yeah, I did that then too,obviously, but I would even
(23:19):
have it planned and like take itinto the marriage conversation,
right.
Whereas now, like, when I comeinto a conversation with someone
, I might have it all and, likeJamie and I, like literally we
in this last week, we've hadthis conversation.
Why are you thinking about this?
Because I want to know what mythings are.
Her response to me is Carrie,what do you need to know?
And this is a really greatquestion what do you need to
know about yourself?
And so now, what I really comehome to in these conversations
(23:41):
is what are the things that Ineed to know that I'm bringing
to the conversation that it'slike what's important to me?
What do I need to be able toshare that's important to me?
yep, right, not about what theyare and as long as they want or
what they're going to think ofit or what, no, but like what's
important for me to express,because this needs to be like
something for me that'simportant, yeah, or something
(24:01):
that I need, or something thathas upset me, or some like
boundary that I need to create,whatever that is right and I
show up right.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
And I show up doing that.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
And then the conversation.
Like you know, we had thisconversation.
My ex and I had thisconversation last night around
friendship, and it was reallyquite a beautiful and easeful
conversation.
But I can tell you that priorto the conversation, I was
literally coming into peace withmyself.
This was my journey, was likeokay, carrie, clear your head.
There's no way that you canpredict how this conversation is
going to go.
So come into your heart, openyour heart, be present and let
(24:37):
it be.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
I wonder if this is a manifestor thing too, because
of where you guys are defined.
Because I'm just thinking to myother bestie manifestor friend,
who will literally have wholeconversations, from beginning to
end, oh yeah, With someone andmake decisions based on this
imaginary conversation and neverinclude the other person in the
conversation.
You've never had that happenbefore.
(24:59):
And then she's like, yeah, he'sgoing to say no, so I'm not
even going to ask, and I'm likebut you have just eliminated all
potential for the thing youwant Because you have literally
created the whole story beforeit's ever happened.
Does she have a closed head too?
She must be defined there.
I mean, like our manifestos aredefined up top because, yeah, I
(25:23):
guess we have to be.
So I wonder if that has to dowith that, and I can feel it.
It's so interesting because wetraveled together recently and
to watch her go into her headand all the stories and the you
know, and, and her voice getshigher and her speech gets
faster and her this, and I wouldbe like, okay, come back into
(25:44):
your body like ground, back intothe here and now, right into
your root, and then she'd belike, oh, like her, her voice
would deepen, her words wouldslow down and there was like
immediate clarity, you know,like, and then it was like, oh
yeah, I don't like, all of thatwas just chaos.
(26:05):
And just to like, come backinto the now, completely shift
everything.
And she had some big chaos tonavigate, like she, she missed
weird airport thing.
They said her flight haddeparted, it hadn't, so she
missed her international flighthome, like it was.
It was a lot for her travelingand straight into like all the
(26:30):
stories and all the things andwho, who's gonna, you know.
And it was like and right now,what's happening?
What can we do right now?
And to watch her go up and thenjust to be able to say come
back into your body and how,like, almost immediately, like,
oh yeah, none of that, like Ican't do anything about all of
these imaginary stories, righthere and right now.
(26:53):
What do I need to, what do?
What do I want?
What do?
What am I creating?
What action can I take?
You know, and think about whatlife would be like if we
navigated from that place moreoften, totally right here, right
now.
What's true?
What's real?
What do I need?
What do I want?
What am I creating?
Not, what ifs, not what couldbe all.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
It's so weird the way mine does that so, so fucking
frustrating to be humansometimes it is yeah, it is, you
know.
I mean like this whole process,and this is why we're talking.
I think this is also the pointof, for me, talking about.
It is that over this last it'sbeen four or five weeks now.
Um, I'm getting to the placewhere it's been like god, I know
(27:35):
mentally what needs to happenand I'm saying this because I
think this is a really importantpiece, right, I know mentally,
like I know, and in my body,that doesn't change that I'm
less human and it doesn't changethat the looping thoughts don't
happen and those annoyingstories don't happen, and it
doesn't mean that there's agrief happening and there isn't
heartbreak.
And right, yeah, abandonment andall these things right because
(27:56):
we're still human, yeah, and soI think this is why I want to
say, like, bring this here,because if you're going through
any of this, like and ithappened again, like I said,
with any shock, with any waythat we attach to things outside
of ourselves, right, and thenwe need to come back home to
ourselves, and this happens allthe time.
We're human, we're going tokeep attaching.
This is the yeah like.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
This doesn't go away.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
It just becomes easier to spot and move through,
but it doesn't go away, yeah um, that you're, you're where
you're supposed to be, right, Ijust want to say that, like
you're where you're supposed tobe and I've and I'm saying that
because I've had to have myfriends tell me, like doesn't
matter how frustrated I am, andeven when I talked to my ex last
night, I was like I know thatwe're going to be in space
(28:36):
together because we're incommunity together and we bit of
a Jamie and Carrie stylesession here.
(29:03):
I don't know if you haveanything else you want to add,
actually, but I think we gotinto a lot of the embodiment
things and ultimately I have a Ilike I totally agree with
everything that Jamie has saidaround our secure attachment and
like how we come back toourselves and ultimately it has
to come in through the body.
Um, we have to reconnect intoour bodies and I'd say, if I
could wish it to anyone, right,it is to build a connection with
(29:27):
your body.
However, it is that you can,because I think, even for me and
I'm going to even say it thisway, like I know, when I was
anxious in my marriage, I knew Iwas, was anxious, but I didn't
have the connection to, uh, theempowerment to do anything about
it.
Yeah, yeah, right, and I justfelt anxious all the time and I
(29:47):
didn't know why, but I alwaysdid.
I was always anxious, likethere was.
I mean, I've gone from levels ofanxiety where, when my when I
first moved to Australia whichwould have been my, which would
have been my ex-husband and Igot together soon after I was
scratching myself till I wouldbleed from anxiety.
So when I think about the pathI've come to where I am now to
(30:08):
actually have this awareness,it's my like milestones, like I
probably feel I feel the anxietyand I can feel all these things
, but it's like I have theawareness that, okay, it's here
and I can do something aboutthis and I'm not gonna die.
And how do I move this?
And it really is like havingthe connection of what does it
need right now?
What does your body need rightnow?
What does my heart need rightnow?
What is my mind?
(30:28):
What is the little girl insideof me that's really the one
that's craving the attention andthe love that I get to give to
myself Right Cause this is whereit is.
When we come back to our ownattachment, it's like I'm
looking outside of me foreverything, but really, carrie
and you have no control overoutside.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
So of course it creates anxiety because it's
like I need all of you to makeme feel safe, but I know I have
no control over the choices andthe things you do.
It's like a looping knowingthat I need you to keep me safe,
but I know I can't make you dothat.
I can't.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
I can't trust you to actually do that, because people
are going to change, becauselives change.
Yeah, right.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
And the way you navigate.
That is to come back to I'mresponsible for this and then
when you understand the personresponsible for your safety is
the person you have control over, that changes that anxiety
pattern, because the anxietycomes from not knowing if
somebody outside of you is gonnashow up in the way you need
them to right, we just give itto ourselves and it's been the
(31:26):
greatest thing.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
It's like anytime I want, not anytime I won't,
because sometimes it is theother person when you are in a
relationship right, yes,absolutely there is, there is
need for this is we are inrelationship, right yeah.
But oftentimes I will askmyself first is this something I
can give myself?
Speaker 2 (31:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Yeah, right, and when I'm not, it's because I'm
definitely in my not self orit's definitely because I'm in
an anxious state and luckily Ihave beautiful friends and you
know, people around me and evenlovers, whatever.
They're not going to be mad atme.
They're not people who love youaren't going to be mad at you
because you go into one of thesestates, right, like they're
going to love you through it.
Yeah, but yeah, I think it's areally important question that
we start to ask ourselves is canI give?
(32:02):
What can I?
What do I need?
What do I need to give myselfin these moments?
And it's not you be to get intothat body of yours, move that
body of yours in some way, shapeor form, express it in some way
, shape or form and do it in away that's healthy for yourself
(32:24):
and for the people around you,please.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I think to even just to kindof expand on the nuance of
someone that loves you, someonethat loves you that also is
self-aware enough to understandwhat's going on in their body,
because, yeah, like someone canlove you very much, but if they
don't know how to move their owntrauma and their own, regulate
their own nervous system, theycan want all they want, but
(32:48):
their body may not be able toshow up in compassion or support
.
If it's true, if your triggeris triggering them yes, which
happens a lot in especiallyromantic relationships- yes oh
yeah, beautiful, beautifuldiscussion.
Thank you for sharing yourjourney thank you.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
Anything else you want to add?
No, no thanks see y'all nextweek, let us know.
Let us know what you liked.
Reach out, tell us the thingsyou loved.
We'd love to hear from you.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
If you enjoyed this show, let us know.
We're all about authenticconnections, so come chat with
us on social media or email.
Links are listed in the shownotes.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
And please make sure to subscribe to the podcast on
your favorite platform and sharethe magic on your socials.
Welcome to redefining normal.
Join us as we questionconventional thinking and talk
about the courage it takes tocreate and live a deliciously
vibrant life.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
This podcast is for people who know there's a better
way to do life and love how weshow up in connection to others
our kids, our partners, ourbusiness and, beyond that, our
relationship with money,vitality and, more than anything
, ourselves.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
We're two shamelessly unapologetic moms choosing to
experience the fullness of life.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
And we're collapsing the conditioning that says you
can't live a life of pleasure,peace and abundance in the midst
of the mundane of life,responsibilities, work and kids.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Are you ready?
Let's do this this week.
Jamie and I are super excitedto have a conversation with you
about something that might sounda little bit boring but I think
is really freaking important,which is attachment styles.
But we're really wanting tokind of hone in on secure
attachment and what that is.
Some of you may have heard thisbefore.
(01:04):
Some of you may not have heardthis before, so we're going to
kind of um, take you throughthis and the importance of this
and why we're having aconversation about it right now.
So can I actually?
Speaker 2 (01:17):
I'll start and say why we're having the
conversation now and then we'lltake you through this um through
this process, cause I wouldlove for you to share what you
like, how you define it, what itmeans to you attachment, secure
attachment.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Yeah, okay, first let me just share why we're talking
about this and then and thenwe'll get into the details and
the nitty gritties.
Uh, so basically, what's goingon for me right now is, for
those of you I don't know ifwe've even talked about it that
there's been a breakup from theguy, the mystery guy that we've
been talking about, and it'sbeen a really intense process
because it was really shocking,and we're now at a place where,
(01:58):
interestingly enough, we havefound our way through to be able
to move through in a friendship, and it has taken every ounce
of my soul to really workthrough this on an internal
level.
And so the reason I'm talkingabout this is because this was
about attachment.
So attachment is when we reallyget into connecting with
(02:19):
another human right and it canbe other than humans too.
When we get out of this, youknow this experience but we
connect to another human, andthere can be other than humans
too.
When we get out of this, youknow this experience but we
connect to another human, andthere can be attachment styles
that are not actually healthy.
So, basically, it's based on ourfrom the way we were with our
parents, whether our parentsleft us or abandoned us or over
cuddled us or all thesedifferent ways that we have
attached or not attached to aparental figure in life or a
(02:41):
person who played as a parent inlife, and then how does that
play out later on in ourrelationships, in our we'll just
call it for here ourrelationships, right, and so for
me, right now, as I'm goingthrough this journey, as we
separate, it's about coming backinto this wholeness with myself
and creating a deeper level ofsovereignty in myself.
And Jamie and I were justtalking right before, because
(03:02):
Jamie has some some reallyfreaking amazing embodiment
things, and I was like OK, jamie, I'm at this place right now,
I've made it this far, but I'mstill feeling really
dysregulated in my nervoussystem, which is how, when we
have an anxious experiencebecause we're attached to a
human on an anxious level, rightit can feel really
(03:22):
dysregulating and uncomfortable.
Plus, there was this very fastseparation.
So I'm just moving through,like the separation in and of
itself, right, and so now I'mlike working on how do I come
back into my body in a betterway and hold myself and not and
be able to stay in peace withinmyself, because that's an us job
, right, and so this is how thisconversation started.
This is where we're at, jamie.
(03:43):
Do you want to add intoattachment?
Do you want to have anything tosay?
Speaker 2 (03:46):
because I've just no, I mean, I'm not an expert by
any means on like attachmenttheory and attachment styles.
I I, you know kind of vaguelyor high level, know um about,
you know, like, like, uh,anxious attachment and what that
(04:06):
looks like, um, and avoidantyeah, and how oftentimes they
end up together.
Kyle and I were very much sothat I was the anxious one, he
was the avoidant, um, and it'sinteresting because then when I
go avoidant he gets um, anxious.
You know it's, it's a polaritything and you kind of need both
(04:27):
to play that dynamic and createthe tension that feels familiar
in our nervous system.
Like carrie was saying, if youhad, you know, a parent that um,
yeah, like created thosedynamics with you as a child,
then they feel familiar and safein your body.
So you look to create them inyour romantic relationships or
(04:49):
friendship relationships orwhatever relationships you've
got going on.
Um, an anxious attachment, frommy understanding, tends to be
uh, leaned way forward, rightlike.
I need a lot of time, I need alot of energy, I need a lot of
reassurance, reassurance.
A lot of text messages,communication, yeah like
continual um connection and thenavoidant wants their own space,
(05:12):
wants you know, like doesn'twant to have to um give or
receive that um, they wantfreedom once.
Yeah, kind of oftentimes is umwhat's the commitment?
Phobic is like oftentimes thelabel that would look like with
that Right, yeah, and oftentimesthose two people find each
(05:34):
other, and you know each other'sbuttons and then create
attachment right to the dynamicand oftentimes relatively toxic
dynamics in in that relationship.
So, and I know that I mean, likeI said, that was Kyle and I for
a good chunk of our marriageand not that we aren't that way
(05:55):
ever now.
But we are aware when I'm, youknow I'm getting anxious or or
avoidant and you know it's likewe're aware that we're
navigating and moving throughthe various ways that we're
showing up for each other yeah,he and I were the same, I was.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
I'm anxious and he's avoidant.
Yeah and um, and I think I wantto say here to anyone who's
listening if you haven't heardthis before um, these things
it's like, ultimately I don'tthink they ever, fully, ever go
away.
I just think that you learn howto be in relationship with them
and support each other withlove, right, so so there's
certain things that is ananxious attachment, that it's
(06:30):
just like it becomes normal partof relating to the extent that
the other person is willing tolike meet you, right, and you
can always ask for your needs tobe met and then you can always
find your way, way throughthings.
And I think also the more thatwe start to learn, like Jamie
and I you know, both are at theplace of I can be aware of when
I'm being very anxious, like I'mlike Ooh, ah, I feel that
(06:53):
Carrie and I don't have to dothe thing right, I can hold
myself.
And this is where we start tocome into this place of the
secure attachment, right, sothat we can both notice and go
ah, wow, that's your anxiousattachment, carrie, and you can,
you can even call it like.
Sometimes I'll even say to mylike a partner right, like I'm
feeling really anxious right nowbecause of can you reassure
this Right?
And it's not then coming inthis like needy and if they
don't, whatever, like it's notbeing like you're this person,
(07:14):
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
I need this.
And then we're not hooking intoeach other's energy.
And it's like those places,like I know, when I've become
into anxious moments, I'm likejust hold yourself, carrie, like
you don't need that Right.
And the more that we do that,the more that we do that on
either side of this, whetherit's in the anxious side,
because you know, I experiencedthis, or the avoidance side,
(07:36):
where we want to run, because,definitely with my partners,
like sometimes, like it goes allright, well, he wants to run, I
want to over-communicate,where's the middle ground, right
?
Or they want to run and youwant to run, but it's like no,
we got to sit at the table andfigure this out, right.
And so we start to look atthese places where we're playing
into these patterns and we canchoose into different ways of
(07:58):
doing it.
And it starts with our ownjourney, with ourselves in
choosing to have this awarenessright, like if you guys again,
neither jamie nor I are expertsin this.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
We are just humans who are on the path and I think
too it's important to rememberit's a theory and incomplete.
You know, like there's lots ofdifferent ways this can show up
and like, if you identify withanxious, look at where you're
avoided like what are youactually like?
I don't want to talk about it,I don't want to commit to this,
I don't want to because, like inmy romantic relationship, I was
(08:29):
anxious mostly when I felt hewas avoided.
Then I wanted to like, lean inand force connection.
But then there are lots ofarenas where I'm just avoidant
and don't want to talk about it,don't want to look at it, don't
want to commit to something,don't want to, um, have it,
don't want to look at it, don'twant to commit to something,
don't want to have theconversation, whatever, whatever
that is.
So, yeah, you can start tounderstand your partner when you
(08:52):
can see where you do that thingand what drives it in you as
well.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
I think as well, like just having the awareness,
because there's times when, inany intimate relationship, I can
go both ways, like if you pushme enough, I'm going to fucking
avoid in a billion ways, yeahRight.
And and then I think, when youknow that, like I know, even
with with my ex, this lastpartner like I, we could
actually get to the place whereI was like if I'm in this place
and you see me do this, it'sbecause I went into a free state
(09:17):
and in my free state I'm notgoing to be able to communicate
with you unless you actually dothese things.
Yeah Right, I'm like, it's notbecause I don't want to, it's
not because whatever, but likeI'm in a total freeze state.
And so then you can also startto learn how do you be in
relationship to support eachother, to be able to communicate
at your best, yeah.
So I think and like Jamie said,I think this is really important
to note that it's like there isno like perfection in this, or
(09:39):
there is no like it's not the beall, end all, but the be all,
end all.
But I do think it helps toactually have that awareness
because it's not just in ourrelationships, like I would have
an anxious attachment to money.
I would have you know, likethese are these places you can
look at your money, you can lookat your health, you can look at
your own relationship withyourself and where you're doing
the same damn thing withyourself Right, and so it can
really help.
So right now I'm really curiousto know Jamie because, like
(10:06):
she's like we're like, uh,nervous system.
Can we just talk nervous systemembodiment things and how we
can actually settle when we havethese experiences that cause
I'm talking about shock in mybody, right, and I'm also
talking about coming home toself and I think, first of all,
both things can happenregardless of you know it was,
it was a breakup, but, like,regardless of the situation, we
have this and um, and also youdon't need shock for it to
(10:27):
happen, right, like our nervoussystems can get totally
dysregulated and we are also canbe very again this anxious
avoidant attachment.
So, even in a marriage 20 yearson, if your still nervous
system is still going cause minewas.
Yeah 17 years into a marriage.
Mine was way worse than it isnow.
Well, okay, in this moment it'spretty intense, but generally
speaking, yeah Right, yeah Right.
So, like these are these thingsthat we can really look at and
(10:49):
say how do we come back home andsettle this?
So go on and tell me somethings, help me out here.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
What do you think?
Yeah, I mean, I guess itdepends on where you're at in
your journey.
You know, I mean like for you,oftentimes just slowing down,
just slowing down.
Right, who was it?
Kelly Greeno just did like areel the other day and she was,
like, you know, pro parentingtip and she was just walking
along at a pace and then she'slike slow, slow down, like brush
(11:17):
your teeth slower, walk slower,talk slower.
You know the semantics of like,like breath work is miraculous
(11:38):
in a lot of ways, um, as well asit is.
It's interesting because it'slike you need to follow the
sensations in your body.
But your mind has to be a partof the process, because
oftentimes we can make themistake of like, um over
intellectualizing things andgetting into the story, getting
into the but why?
And because my dad and becausemy mom and because you know,
(12:01):
like, whatever, and we have leftour body in that.
But if we can follow the story,that's creating the anxiety or
the avoidance, and feel thesensations that are coming up in
our life.
It takes practice to do that, toengage the mind and not let it
(12:26):
run away with the story you know.
So it.
So it's like let it, let itguide the awareness of the
sensations that are showing upinternally and then to be able
to move those to it's it is.
It's like an acclimation or aum integration.
What were you used a wordearlier?
Um, like it's a capacity thing.
(12:47):
You know it's like your nervoussystem is literally like I don't
know what to do with this.
It's like a, like a wire that'srunning too much energy through
it.
That wants to short circuit,yes, and that we can slowly and
intentionally increase ourcapacity for what needs to move
through us.
So you know like when we moveour bodies, you know, like
(13:09):
animals, they shake off.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Oh, my God, it's been my.
By the way, for those of youlistening, I have been
obsessively loving going to playparties here that are like
they're not sex play parties,they're like we get primal in
play, and it is so fuckingdelicious to meet another human
in a safe space and I'm and I'msaying this because, like, we
have play parties here to dothis because I'm a single person
and this is something I'm doingright now to actually like
(13:34):
literally what you're saying, tomove this energy out of my body
, and it's so amazing to meetanother human in like fierce
ferociousness that you're likelet's go Right.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Where else do we do that in life ever?
Like most people do not have aspace where they can rage, where
they can scream, where they canpunch hard.
You know it's like bite.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Yeah, it doesn't, it doesn't exist, you know, and and
actually, so that's what I'msaying.
So, like you guys can invite,like I invite you, even if you
can look in your areas, likethis is I know I'm in denver and
it's a boulder area and we havegot all this kind of stuff and
it's really fucking wicked placeto live for this.
But look in your areas, youmight find it.
If you want, reach out to oneof us.
We might know people in yourarea that can lead you into
these paths.
(14:17):
But even still, like, justwrestle with your partner.
If you've got a partner right,like and it doesn't, you know
like get into those primalplaces because far out it feels
like and be aware that it mightbring stuff up.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
You know, like, so I, um, when I was little, my
stepdad would like hold me downand tickle me and so, like, the
first time, couple times,whatever that I would wrestle
and Kyle would hold me down, Iwould, I would feel so much rage
and I'm like like, oh, it's notKyle, he's bringing up somatic
memories that I have not fullyprocessed.
(14:53):
So like, it isn't always apleasant release.
Sometimes it will bring stuffup.
That's really uncomfortable.
But in allowing it to come upand to be felt and to move
through, means that you're nolonger holding it in your body
and trying to navigate normaland be like calm and be felt.
And to move through means thatyou're no longer holding it in
your body and trying to navigatenormal and be like calm and be
(15:13):
centered and have this um,regulated nervous system, while
it's trying to hold this traumathat you just haven't
acknowledged, you know yeah,yeah it's.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
It's an interesting experience to to have those
things move through I think, onthat note I want to add here
because I did say go, and onthat note I want to add here
because I did say go and do this.
But I think to add a safetypiece if you're going to allow
yourself the fullness of thisright, yeah, if you really truly
allow yourself the fullness ofthis release and you actually
have another human in your spacethat can can meet you in this
and who's willing to like go inthe wrestle, to go into the
(15:46):
primal play, to go into beingwith you in that space, yeah, um
, and like you don't have to bedeeply, like my ex did it with
me, he did it with me.
My ex-husband would wrestle andget me like yeah, let's go right
, yeah, um, but there's somereally great safety things that
you can use, which are like intantra, they use a speed light
red, yellow and green.
(16:06):
And so the green is like go,like, let's go, we're, we, we're
fucking going to go at this andhave fun and primally at it.
Yellow is like you've hit apoint to me where I'm getting to
the point of uncomfortable yeah, something's moving, like
something's moving, you'vetriggered something.
I'm not sure where I'm at.
Slow the fuck down, right.
And red is stop, right, fuckinghere, right.
(16:26):
And so if you've been triggered,then you get to have those, say
, because sometimes there'sgonna be nothing else that can
come out of your mouth in thesemoments and, um, it gives you a
safe way to play, right, and soyou can actually get ferocious,
like even if it gets too hard,right, like if you guys are
rustling and it gets too hard,you're like, hey, that's an 11,
like that's a yellow, stop, hey,right.
And so you have a way ofcommunicating.
(16:47):
And that's a yellow, stop, hey,right.
And so you have a way ofcommunicating and that's a great
way to communicate withsomebody who isn't aware of.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
I know that, like the first couple of times that and
even for me, like the firstcouple of times, not even just
physically but emotionally,things would get triggered, yeah
, and all of a sudden I would beangry at Kyle and he's like I
don't even.
I don't even know what I did,you know, and I had nothing to
do with him.
But it was bringing up my, myown stuff, and it was through
learning, somatics and healingwork and mindset work and all of
(17:16):
that that I started to realize,oh my gosh, I'm literally
projecting my trauma.
He's, he's playing the you know, placeholder for the story that
has nothing to do with him.
And so when we both started torecognize that it allowed us to
step out of you know theattachment dynamics we were
running yeah, totally so yeah,but animals, like when they,
(17:39):
when they have conflict, theyshake off the adrenaline, you
know, and humans don't do that.
Uh, it's one of my favorite yourbody shake, body shake your
hips.
One of my favorite.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
You'll see me shaking pretty much every day somewhere
in my day, and it's interestingbecause some of the things that
you would say as well likebreathwork.
So for me, quantum flow is myway of doing this and my
practice that I use and I teachwith my clients as well, and
(18:12):
there is like there's so manyways and like stomping your feet
, too, can be a really greatgrounding way to get your stuff
out of your, out of your bodySomething that you said earlier
too, by the way, that I wantedto add into.
You had said earlier somethingabout the stories in your mind
and letting them lead into yourbody.
Yeah, and the thing that I justwanted to add an extra piece to
that, because it's somethingthat I've really been working
with over the last year.
It's been a really importantpart of my process because I'm a
(18:34):
heady story person and Jamie'soften pulling me out of the
story Carrie, that's a fuckingstory.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
That's the shadow of my life's work is
intellectualizing things, soit's like I'm very familiar with
the mind's capacity to take uson a journey.
That is nonsense.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
It doesn't actually fucking help anybody, right?
So it's been part of my journey, and so one of the things I
actually ask myself when I getreally into the story and I can
notice, just like Jamie said, Inoticed that my body gets this.
I'm going to call it anxiety,but really it is just energy
that's moving right.
There is a lot of energy thatis in my body that needs to be
released, ultimately, or paidattention to or moved in some
(19:10):
way, shape or form Right.
And so the thing that I'lloften think of I'm like oh,
notice this right here.
So what's the story?
Does it really matter what thestory is?
And this is what Jamie said,but I want to bring this into a
really clear point here itdoesn't really matter what the
story said.
You just go okay, where is thestory in my body Exactly?
then where it is in your yeahright, what sensation is this
creating?
And then, what is it that Ineed to do to move this out?
Speaker 2 (19:33):
and it sometimes takes a while, the mind will
keep trying.
The mind will keep like yeah,but this happened.
Yeah, but he said, yeah, butyou have and then you go back to
and then you're right back outof your body.
I did this last last week, twoweeks ago, kyle and I don know,
like we were disagreeing onsomething and we whatever we
(19:54):
went our separate ways, did ourthing.
It wasn't anything major and mybody felt fine, like sensation
wise.
I was like over it, nothing.
My mind was like we haven'ttalked about that thing, he
hasn't apologized for that thing, or we haven't decided whatever
.
And I'm like, wow, my mind isliterally trying to take my body
out of contentment.
Fine, like let's just move on.
(20:15):
And it's like, no, we need to,we need to fight about this, we
need to have conflict, we needto sort it, we need to whatever.
And I'm like, wow, she keepstrying to pull me into a story
and a dynamic that reallydoesn't exist, it doesn't have
to exist.
And my mind is literallycreating conflict that does not
(20:35):
sensationally exist in my body.
And she's powerful.
That's what that's like, theprocess of kind of training your
mind to not run away, Becauseoftentimes that happens.
We're like, oh, yeah, yeah,yeah, wait a second, we didn't
resolve this conflict.
You know, it's like so easy togo into the story and to stay
there, um, and being able todetach from it, being able to
(20:58):
recognize.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
This is just thoughts , this is just story it's also
interesting because, you know,since we started this on
attachment, like hearing you saythat to me is really what I'm
starting to pay attention to alot in my mind is where do I
give my mind space to otherpeople?
Because now I'm attaching tosomething, or I'm thinking about
(21:19):
, or I'm even projecting or like.
Sometimes I even think like ifI'm trying to work this out and
figure this out with them in thespace of in between, it's
actually hooking into theirenergy.
Yeah Right, it's actually likewow, like how does that feel?
Yeah, right, or am I beingrespectful and so like it's even
like okay, is that respectfulto even be considering, like
you're trying to forward projectsomething that you couldn't
(21:39):
possibly fucking know?
So shut your mind up.
It doesn't even exist, right?
Like?
Speaker 2 (21:43):
literally just pretend.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Yeah, it's just so interesting, right, but it's
part of to me.
It is part of that attachment,because we're trying to find an
attachment to something to solvea problem, for ourselves to
feel better in our bodies, butreally what it has to come down
to is to come back into ourbodies.
I know I'm saying this becauseat some point this is going to
be a clip and I'm going to hearit exactly when you need it.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
You're talking to a future, a future, future self,
but it's true.
So think about this Like we wecreate story, then we explore
all the versions of that storyin order to feel prepared for
what could potentially happen.
Yeah, creating all kinds ofconflict, all kinds of potential
(22:25):
that do not exist.
It don't exist.
So so it's like, just go inwith the right here right now.
Let me hold myself and bepresent and respond or be with
whatever wants to happen rightnow, without trying to
preemptively plan for it or, um,figure out what I'm going to
(22:46):
say or do.
If he does this and if he doesthat and if that's like, you are
creating so much tension andanxiety and stress in your body
that that is, pretend it doesn'texist.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
This is literally where I've been and this is
literally what Jamie's been withme on.
Carrie, stop, I love you, stopRight.
But it's so interesting because, even in that, I love you, stop
Right.
But it's so interesting because, even in that, when I think of
my marriage, I think of how farI've come, because because in
that, yeah, I did that then too,obviously, but I would even
(23:19):
have it planned and like take itinto the marriage conversation,
right.
Whereas now, like, when I comeinto a conversation with someone
, I might have it all and, likeJamie and I, like literally we
in this last week, we've hadthis conversation.
Why are you thinking about this?
Because I want to know what mythings are.
Her response to me is Carrie,what do you need to know?
And this is a really greatquestion what do you need to
know about yourself?
And so now, what I really comehome to in these conversations
(23:41):
is what are the things that Ineed to know that I'm bringing
to the conversation that it'slike what's important to me?
What do I need to be able toshare that's important to me?
yep, right, not about what theyare and as long as they want or
what they're going to think ofit or what, no, but like what's
important for me to express,because this needs to be like
something for me that'simportant, yeah, or something
(24:01):
that I need, or something thathas upset me, or some like
boundary that I need to create,whatever that is right and I
show up right.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
And I show up doing that.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
And then the conversation.
Like you know, we had thisconversation.
My ex and I had thisconversation last night around
friendship, and it was reallyquite a beautiful and easeful
conversation.
But I can tell you that priorto the conversation, I was
literally coming into peace withmyself.
This was my journey, was likeokay, carrie, clear your head.
There's no way that you canpredict how this conversation is
going to go.
So come into your heart, openyour heart, be present and let
(24:37):
it be.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
I wonder if this is a manifestor thing too, because
of where you guys are defined.
Because I'm just thinking to myother bestie manifestor friend,
who will literally have wholeconversations, from beginning to
end, oh yeah, With someone andmake decisions based on this
imaginary conversation and neverinclude the other person in the
conversation.
You've never had that happenbefore.
(24:59):
And then she's like, yeah, he'sgoing to say no, so I'm not
even going to ask, and I'm likebut you have just eliminated all
potential for the thing youwant Because you have literally
created the whole story beforeit's ever happened.
Does she have a closed head too?
She must be defined there.
I mean, like our manifestos aredefined up top because, yeah, I
(25:23):
guess we have to be.
So I wonder if that has to dowith that, and I can feel it.
It's so interesting because wetraveled together recently and
to watch her go into her headand all the stories and the you
know, and, and her voice getshigher and her speech gets
faster and her this, and I wouldbe like, okay, come back into
(25:44):
your body like ground, back intothe here and now, right into
your root, and then she'd belike, oh, like her, her voice
would deepen, her words wouldslow down and there was like
immediate clarity, you know,like, and then it was like, oh
yeah, I don't like, all of thatwas just chaos.
(26:05):
And just to like, come backinto the now, completely shift
everything.
And she had some big chaos tonavigate, like she, she missed
weird airport thing.
They said her flight haddeparted, it hadn't, so she
missed her international flighthome, like it was.
It was a lot for her travelingand straight into like all the
(26:30):
stories and all the things andwho, who's gonna, you know.
And it was like and right now,what's happening?
What can we do right now?
And to watch her go up and thenjust to be able to say come
back into your body and how,like, almost immediately, like,
oh yeah, none of that, like Ican't do anything about all of
these imaginary stories, righthere and right now.
(26:53):
What do I need to, what do?
What do I want?
What do?
What am I creating?
What action can I take?
You know, and think about whatlife would be like if we
navigated from that place moreoften, totally right here, right
now.
What's true?
What's real?
What do I need?
What do I want?
What am I creating?
Not, what ifs, not what couldbe all.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
It's so weird the way mine does that so, so fucking
frustrating to be humansometimes it is yeah, it is, you
know.
I mean like this whole process,and this is why we're talking.
I think this is also the pointof, for me, talking about.
It is that over this last it'sbeen four or five weeks now.
Um, I'm getting to the placewhere it's been like god, I know
(27:35):
mentally what needs to happenand I'm saying this because I
think this is a really importantpiece, right, I know mentally,
like I know, and in my body,that doesn't change that I'm
less human and it doesn't changethat the looping thoughts don't
happen and those annoyingstories don't happen, and it
doesn't mean that there's agrief happening and there isn't
heartbreak.
And right, yeah, abandonment andall these things right because
(27:56):
we're still human, yeah, and soI think this is why I want to
say, like, bring this here,because if you're going through
any of this, like and ithappened again, like I said,
with any shock, with any waythat we attach to things outside
of ourselves, right, and thenwe need to come back home to
ourselves, and this happens allthe time.
We're human, we're going tokeep attaching.
This is the yeah like.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
This doesn't go away.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
It just becomes easier to spot and move through,
but it doesn't go away, yeah um, that you're, you're where
you're supposed to be, right, Ijust want to say that, like
you're where you're supposed tobe and I've and I'm saying that
because I've had to have myfriends tell me, like doesn't
matter how frustrated I am, andeven when I talked to my ex last
night, I was like I know thatwe're going to be in space
(28:36):
together because we're incommunity together and we bit of
a Jamie and Carrie stylesession here.
(29:03):
I don't know if you haveanything else you want to add,
actually, but I think we gotinto a lot of the embodiment
things and ultimately I have a Ilike I totally agree with
everything that Jamie has saidaround our secure attachment and
like how we come back toourselves and ultimately it has
to come in through the body.
Um, we have to reconnect intoour bodies and I'd say, if I
could wish it to anyone, right,it is to build a connection with
(29:27):
your body.
However, it is that you can,because I think, even for me and
I'm going to even say it thisway, like I know, when I was
anxious in my marriage, I knew Iwas, was anxious, but I didn't
have the connection to, uh, theempowerment to do anything about
it.
Yeah, yeah, right, and I justfelt anxious all the time and I
(29:47):
didn't know why, but I alwaysdid.
I was always anxious, likethere was.
I mean, I've gone from levels ofanxiety where, when my when I
first moved to Australia whichwould have been my, which would
have been my ex-husband and Igot together soon after I was
scratching myself till I wouldbleed from anxiety.
So when I think about the pathI've come to where I am now to
(30:08):
actually have this awareness,it's my like milestones, like I
probably feel I feel the anxietyand I can feel all these things
, but it's like I have theawareness that, okay, it's here
and I can do something aboutthis and I'm not gonna die.
And how do I move this?
And it really is like havingthe connection of what does it
need right now?
What does your body need rightnow?
What does my heart need rightnow?
What is my mind?
(30:28):
What is the little girl insideof me that's really the one
that's craving the attention andthe love that I get to give to
myself Right Cause this is whereit is.
When we come back to our ownattachment, it's like I'm
looking outside of me foreverything, but really, carrie
and you have no control overoutside.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
So of course it creates anxiety because it's
like I need all of you to makeme feel safe, but I know I have
no control over the choices andthe things you do.
It's like a looping knowingthat I need you to keep me safe,
but I know I can't make you dothat.
I can't.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
I can't trust you to actually do that, because people
are going to change, becauselives change.
Yeah, right.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
And the way you navigate.
That is to come back to I'mresponsible for this and then
when you understand the personresponsible for your safety is
the person you have control over, that changes that anxiety
pattern, because the anxietycomes from not knowing if
somebody outside of you is gonnashow up in the way you need
them to right, we just give itto ourselves and it's been the
(31:26):
greatest thing.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
It's like anytime I want, not anytime I won't,
because sometimes it is theother person when you are in a
relationship right, yes,absolutely there is, there is
need for this is we are inrelationship, right yeah.
But oftentimes I will askmyself first is this something I
can give myself?
Speaker 2 (31:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Yeah, right, and when I'm not, it's because I'm
definitely in my not self orit's definitely because I'm in
an anxious state and luckily Ihave beautiful friends and you
know, people around me and evenlovers, whatever.
They're not going to be mad atme.
They're not people who love youaren't going to be mad at you
because you go into one of thesestates, right, like they're
going to love you through it.
Yeah, but yeah, I think it's areally important question that
we start to ask ourselves is canI give?
(32:02):
What can I?
What do I need?
What do I need to give myselfin these moments?
And it's not you be to get intothat body of yours, move that
body of yours in some way, shapeor form, express it in some way
, shape or form and do it in away that's healthy for yourself
(32:24):
and for the people around you,please.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I think to even just to kindof expand on the nuance of
someone that loves you, someonethat loves you that also is
self-aware enough to understandwhat's going on in their body,
because, yeah, like someone canlove you very much, but if they
don't know how to move their owntrauma and their own, regulate
their own nervous system, theycan want all they want, but
(32:48):
their body may not be able toshow up in compassion or support
.
If it's true, if your triggeris triggering them yes, which
happens a lot in especiallyromantic relationships- yes oh
yeah, beautiful, beautifuldiscussion.
Thank you for sharing yourjourney thank you.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
Anything else you want to add?
No, no thanks see y'all nextweek, let us know.
Let us know what you liked.
Reach out, tell us the thingsyou loved.
We'd love to hear from you.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
If you enjoyed this show, let us know.
We're all about authenticconnections, so come chat with
us on social media or email.
Links are listed in the shownotes.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
And please make sure to subscribe to the podcast on
your favorite platform and sharethe magic on your socials.
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