July 9, 2024 • 38 mins
Have you ever caught your reflection and wondered about the person staring back at you? Join Jamy Miranda and myself, Keri Lynn, as we navigate the complexities of 'normality' within ourselves and our relationships. Through mirror work and self-reflection, we'll assist you in identifying the hidden triggers that shape your everyday interactions. Our candid conversation is an invitation to dissect the stories we construct in our minds, stories that can often cloud judgment and provoke emotional upheaval.
Together with Jamy, we delve into the weight of self-awareness and its transformative power on personal development. As we traverse the terrain of parenting and personal connections, we impart the significance of recognizing our children as mirrors of our own behavior. We share our insights on developing curiosity, confronting the discomfort of self-examination, and the necessity of self-care in cultivating healthier bonds with others. It's not about being flawless; it's about becoming conscious and intentional in your responses.
We round off our dialogue by illuminating the path to self-reflection and clarity. I share my journey of pausing to decode the signals from my nervous system, understanding the emotional undercurrents, and facing the triggers that serve as a portal to healing and fulfillment. Embark on this journey with us, as we redefine the narrative of 'normal' and embrace a more empathetic and nurturing perspective on life's intricate connections. We are thrilled to have you with us on Redefining Normal, and eagerly await your thoughts and stories as we continue the conversation beyond the airwaves.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Keri (00:01):
Welcome to Redefining Normal.
Join us as we questionconventional thinking and talk
about the courage it takes tocreate and live a deliciously
vibrant life.
Jamy (00:10):
This podcast is for people who know there's a better way
to do life and love how we showup in connection to others our
kids, our partners, our businessand, beyond that, our
relationship with money,vitality and, more than anything
, ourselves.
Keri (00:26):
We're two shamelessly unapologetic moms choosing to
experience the fullness of life.
Jamy (00:32):
And we're collapsing the conditioning that says you can't
live a life of pleasure, peaceand abundance in the midst of
the mundane of life,responsibilities, work and kids.
Keri (00:43):
Thank you for listening in .
Let's do this.
Hello and welcome to RedefiningNormal, the first episode of
this well-long-awaited podcast.
With myself, keri Lynn andJamie Miranda, we are so excited
to have you here listening in,and today we are dropping into a
really important foundationalprinciple that will set you guys
(01:06):
up for listening to the rest ofthis show as the years carry on
, and we are talking today aboutmirror work and we'll help you
in your relational dynamics witheveryone in your life as well.
Jamy (01:19):
Absolutely.
Keri (01:21):
Absolutely.
Today we're talking aboutmirror work and self-reflection,
so welcome.
Hey, jayme, do you want tostart with talking about what is
the normal, the normal of whatpeople really start to like?
What we want to start with you,what we're hoping to experience
on this show, is we're going tostart to talk about like, what
(01:43):
is the normal and what is?
How can we redefine normal?
Right, and so can we just starttalking about like, what does
normal look like when we startto have interaction in
relationships?
Um, that tends to be the placewhere I will say so many
relationships go triggered,yucky, messy and hurtful Mm-hmm.
Jamy (02:05):
Mm-hmm.
So, yeah, I think that what'snormal right now is to be
operating from a place ofunconscious trigger.
Most people don't understandhow the mind works, how our
brain and our physiologicalresponses happen like in a
(02:27):
millisecond, based on all of thethings that have happened to us
in the past.
It like makes this quickassessment judgment, it deletes
information, it distortsinformation and it creates a
picture that makes sense to ourcurrent reference points, and so
what we have is a lot of peopleprojecting, is what it's called
(02:49):
, is like.
This is what I see as realityand I'm going to place it on you
and operate like it is, in fact, your reality as well, without
stopping to assess, to wonderwhat's causing this.
Is this actually true?
Is this true for this otherperson that I'm interacting with
(03:10):
?
Yeah, so there's just a lot oftrigger is the word, and I know
trigger is kind of a sensitiveword.
When I say trigger, I'm talkingabout a reactive, like an
unconscious reaction tosomething that's happening in
front of you, without firststopping to assess if it's
(03:33):
actually true or not.
Yeah, and so we have people nothaving relationships or
interacting with another person,but actually a projection from
themselves of that other person.
Keri (03:48):
Yeah, the thing that comes to me when you say that, the
word that comes to me is wounded, right, like we have these
inner wounds that happen becausemaybe we were hurt by a friend
or a lover or a partner or amother or a father in the past.
And we take that wound and we go, oh my God, well, you don't
even realize you're coming fromthat woundedness and you're like
well, sometime in the past thisperson cheated on me or
(04:09):
abandoned me or wasn't therewhen I needed them, or whatever.
And so then you take that andyou project that energy onto
every other relationship.
You expect the same experience,or you come from the wounded
place, and so when they dosomething, the reaction it's a
reaction.
It's like that's why it's thetrigger, right, it's the
reaction.
And so then we go into well,this is how I've got to go and
(04:35):
respond because he's going to dothis or she's going to do this
because of my experience in thepast.
And then we put the projectionbeing, then we put that all over
them, whether that's true forthem or not, right, exactly
Right.
So that can lead to us blamingpeople, projecting all of our
crap over people and reacting topeople in a way that's totally
unnecessary and oftentimeshurtful to the other person.
Jamy (04:58):
Yeah, and I think when you dig into that even more, it can
be a hurt that you consciouslyremember.
It can also be a hurt that iscompletely like you were two and
your mom said get out of theroom right now in whatever was
happening in her life right, butso it anchors into your
awareness according to a certainstory.
(05:21):
So it can even exist outside ofanything.
You consciously remembercreating these reactions.
And I think, on an even smallerscale, it can be beyond
woundedness to something that'sjust happening in another area
of life, like I know.
The example that I had in myworkbook last night was about I
come home and I'm feeling reallyshort and snippy with people.
(05:43):
You know my kid did somethingthat they always do, but this
time it's frustrating and I canreact like it's them.
It's the thing they did thatpissed me off.
But if I can stop for a minuteand be like well, you know, like
what is the sensation?
What's happening?
I recognize I'm frustratedbecause something didn't go
right at work today.
That's not my kid's fault.
Do you know what I mean?
(06:05):
So it's like it's even in theselike minute things that we
project what's happening insideof us onto everybody around us
If we can't stop andself-reflect and be a little bit
aware of what might behappening outside of our
awareness?
This is the hard part.
Is people like, oh, I'm notdoing that, and the second that
you decide it is or isn'thappening, you've shut the door
(06:27):
to like curiosity to see whatyou might not be aware of
Curiosity is so good.
Keri (06:33):
I saw this a lot.
I saw this a lot, for example,with my ex around being tired.
He was a lot tired, a lot Rightand so tired, and I'm saying
this because I know that he'snot alone in this.
I've done this, we've all donethis, like we're all human,
right?
Yeah and um.
And so then people who don'ttake the responsibility, tired
becomes an excuse to be unkindto people.
(06:55):
yeah, well, I'm just cranky, I'mgrumpy and, like it happens
like now, sometimes my kids gobut mom, I'm tired, I'm like
doesn't give you an excuse to bemean to me.
Yeah, if you're tired, go takecare of yourself, go have a rest
, go manage your, your state,because that's not my fault that
you're tired and I understandthat you're tired and I
appreciate that you're tired.
But I don't need to be thevictim of your meanness to me
(07:16):
because you're tired and sosometimes that means that we
move ourselves from that.
So I think this actually comesinto the place of like.
So what is mirror reflection,mirror work and self-reflection?
What does that actually mean Tome?
Jamy (07:33):
it means like exactly what it sounds like, just stopping
for a minute to get curiousabout what's happening inside of
me.
That is creating the story thatI'm reacting to inside of me.
That is creating the story thatI'm reacting to Because it's
all story.
Everything that we experienceis our mind's attempt to make
sense of what we see.
There's actually an NLPtraining.
(07:54):
There's a model of the way themind works and it's a game
changer when you understandwhat's happening at this
millisecond, unconscious place,that our senses, our sight, our
sound, our taste, our, you know,tactile we receive information
and it goes into these.
(08:14):
It checks the files in ourbrain and it distorts, deletes,
or what's the other one?
Distorts, deletes.
I'm going to look Files.
I can't remember Distortsdeletes.
Keri (08:26):
I'm gonna look files I can't remember.
Distorts these files?
Jamy (08:28):
no, distort delete, and I have like a picture distorts,
deletes and generalizes.
So it's like you know, it'slike, well, I mean, like all
people that do this, this justmakes sense.
We'll put them into thiscategory to make it simple.
So, by the way, hold on pausepause there.
Keri (08:45):
generalizing being your alls and your nevers, people
that do this.
This just makes sense.
We'll put them into thiscategory to make it simple.
So, by the way, hold on pause,pause there.
Generalizing being your allsand your nevers and your always
like this is crucially huge incommunication for yourself.
Like there is no all, there isno always, there is no, never
like, really watch your mindsetand your energy and your in your
words, out of your mouth, thatsay that, because when you start
projecting that on someone, andyour in your words, out of your
mouth, that say that, becausewhen you start projecting that
(09:06):
on someone, you always do this.
Do they really?
You never do this, do theyreally?
And that's a total likegeneralization to that will hurt
all of you.
Jamy (09:14):
Yeah, I mean it literally is like putting blinders on and
you're you're limiting yourawareness to this very minute
moment of them and calling thatall of them, right.
So our minds do that immediatelywith the information that comes
in, because we can only processso much information at any
given moment, like there is arate of information processing
(09:38):
capacity of our minds, and so ittakes that information and
tries to make sense of it in thebest way that can.
And it's according to our pastexperiences, what we've been
taught, what we've seen asnormal, real, the way it should
be, all of these things, and aslong as we are not stopping to
check the automatic process thathappened, verify it, is this
(10:02):
accurate, is this, does thismake sense, is this true?
For me, we are just reacting atan unconscious level to things
that we have, most of the time,unintentionally taken on.
So, self-reflection, is thatpause to ask and to check.
Is this accurate?
(10:22):
Sometimes it is.
I'm not saying that, like, allreaction is bad, sometimes there
is an accuracy to that, but Ithink we have a responsibility
to stop and check, like what'shappening in me that's creating
this, this story, is it servingme, is it accurate, and how do I
actually want to respond?
Keri (10:43):
Not, I think it's the physiological response.
Yeah, I think it's reallyinteresting how you say is it
accurate?
Something I have really paidattention to and this comes down
to the distortion piece of this, of course but something I've
been paying really a lot ofattention to and I've been
hearing so much in people is thestories we tell ourselves.
And I hear people and like Iknow I used to do this like a
(11:03):
lot, a lot, a lot Right, so Ifully own this and it's totally
detrimental, totally messy, andit would be like somebody does
something and then I make up awhole story in my mind about
what it means, Right.
Well, that means like he didthis thing, so that means that
he doesn't like this and he's anasshole and he hates me and I'm
(11:25):
this and blah, blah, blah.
Whatever the thing is Right,and we create an entire story up
in our mind about what it means, but it's like to them.
They're like I didn't, I justsaid a word, I didn't even.
Yeah, I was daydreaming.
Jamy (11:34):
What you're talking about.
Keri (11:36):
You're like really and actually.
Jamy (11:39):
I feel the opposite of whatever that story you just
told me is.
Keri (11:43):
Right, but we're really upset about it and then we and
then we go through the day,especially if this is your
family or partners, peopleyou're close with, then we go
through the day in this reactive, like angry place with them and
you're like it wasn't even true, like that was just something I
made up in my mind.
And I hear people say thisoften and I'm like how do you
know?
Like this is a question you canask yourself.
How do you know?
(12:05):
Yeah, right, because if youhaven't asked them, you don't.
Actually and I'm saying thisbecause I know a lot of people
who are going to listen to thisare very intuitive, psychic,
spiritual human beings.
I am too, jamie is too, and I'mlike and there's times like,
the truth is that oftentimes myintuition is pretty spot on and
is pretty spot on, and when Italk to the person, a lot of
times it's pretty spot on butthe times that it's not, it's
(12:34):
way off.
Jamy (12:34):
Well, and you?
Keri (12:34):
can't have an accurate, intuitive read and still have
the wrong story, right, you know, like the story.
Jamy (12:37):
Our story may not.
It's.
It's almost like um I don'tknow what the word is it's like
toxic or it is out of integrityto actually project our own
story on someone else.
You know, I think the importantthing too, carrie, to really
acknowledge here is that itfeels real.
So what happens in the mindwith that reaction is it creates
(12:58):
a physiological response thatthen creates and informs our
state.
So it's like, no, I can feelthis right, like my heart is
racing or my whatever.
And it's like, yeah, it feelsreally real and it is
manifesting in your body.
So we're not saying that likeit's all fake and it's all
(13:21):
whatever.
This is a real response that'shappening.
But the reflection comes incuriosity and is this accurate
and is this reaction appropriatefor the actual thing that's
happening in front of me?
Keri (13:36):
And can I pause?
And it's also like, can I pausethe reaction until I know the
truth?
Yes, right, like can I know thatthis is here and feel Okay, can
I feel the feelings that arefeeling inside of me Because I
am having this trigger, I amhaving this reaction regardless
of the story, regardless of them.
Can I feel this be in this, canI let this be without a story
playing in my mind?
And or can I even just like,come to peace and like let it
(13:58):
sit there, knowing that this islike a thing that's going on and
until I've actually had theconversation with somebody which
I think is a really big pieceof this work is having the
vulnerability to have theconversations instead of just
letting it be a story in yourmind that you then sometimes, in
marriages and relationships andwhatever these things, can go
for months without sayinganything and then you let that
(14:20):
physical part of you be in yourbody and in that disconnect, and
then more and more and moreresentment and disconnect
happens, when all you had to dowas say, hey, I have this story
that's happening in my mind,yeah, and I think this is what's
going on.
I don't know what's happeningfor you, but can we talk about
it so that I can let this storygo and let it leave your body?
Yeah.
Jamy (14:39):
Exactly that happened to us this weekend.
Kyle said something.
I don't remember what I don't.
It was something simple, youknow, like why is this?
Why is this sweater on thefloor?
Innocent question, right, Imean, it's a logical question.
But I felt like a like aannoyance with it and I had to
(15:05):
stop because it's easy to belike, oh, he's judging me, he's
whatever.
You know, it was like thisdefensiveness immediately and
I'm like, ah, whoa, that was alot.
And so I said I'm like that,the way you said that, um, this
is what, how it registered in mysystem.
And and it's beautiful, becauseI think Kyle and I've gotten to
(15:25):
the point, like where he usedto if I would express what's
happening in me, he would thentake it as accusation or defense
or something he needs to fix.
And we've gotten to this pointwhere it's like, when I say I'm
feeling this in response to that, I'm not expecting you to do
anything different.
You may like, if it thenresonates in you and you're like
, oh yeah, that was there or waswhatever right, you get to self
(15:46):
reflect as well.
But this, this, like justcommunicating that like ruffled
my feathers a little bit.
Let me just be with whateverthat was, and he was like, oh,
that's not at all what I wastrying to do.
I was just actually reallycurious if it like needed to go
into the laundry room or doanything up or whatever, and so
you know even just thatrecognition that like oh, I am
(16:08):
like really ticked off, what theheck is happening, Right, but
it is.
Keri (16:15):
But it's like and I think I love that you actually brought
it that it was such a small,like really insignificant thing
in this life, Right.
But these are the places that,when we don't recognize that and
we don't self-reflect, theseare the places that resentment
builds up over and over and over, Because if he did that over
and over and over again and younever said anything, you just
get more and more resentful andangry and he'd be like why are
you angry with me?
And he has no idea why.
Why are you angry with me?
Jamy (16:35):
Because you asked me and my sweater was on the floor,
don't you get it?
Well, and I think I could haveeither gotten really pissy, you
know like just picked it up,like it's like what's going on
here?
Because the question I alwaysis what do I like, how do I want
to be in my relationships, andis this action I'm taking
(16:56):
facilitating that?
Even if the pissed off wasjustified, even if he was
judging me, even if he wasnagging me, whatever, like that
doesn't mean that my reactionhas to match that.
What am I creating?
What do I want to do here?
Because there's so many timesit's like, yeah, justified, but
is it still in alignment withyou're trying to create?
(17:16):
If it's not, you have thechoice to do different and I
think that's important to carry.
Keri (17:22):
Is this awareness that, because it's not normal to
communicate this way, you may bemet with defensiveness, with
frustration with you know, likewhatever and it takes a bit to
like change the way, the norm ofour communicating in our
intimate relationships even,even still and you and I have
talked about this, even in myexperience of ending a marriage
(17:45):
right, there have been manytimes where I could have gone
the low road right, where Icould have shown up to meet him
where he's at.
And I have chosen over and overagain and I've had you and so
many friends who've said to meCarrie, therapist, everybody,
carrie, you really are choosingthe high road.
I'm like, I'm choosing to bemyself, no matter how he shows
up for it.
And there's things that I havedone that people like Carrie and
(18:06):
I'm like I'm going to, like hemoved yesterday and on Monday
and I offered to help and peoplelike are you kidding?
And I'm like, no, because if itwas me on the opposite side, I
would like we're still like,they're still my kids and that's
an alignment with therelationship you want to bring.
That I choose Right.
And I'm like, and I said, ifthat's what, if it was for me
and I was the one moving, Iwould want him to say, hey, is
(18:29):
there anything I can do tosupport you right now?
Yeah, and the reality is heprobably will not do that Right,
and I have no expectation thathe will, but I'm still going to
choose to show up, yeah, as theperson that I am, regardless of
how he does.
Yes, and that is, I think, areally important piece of this
we can't change how the otherperson does show up, but we can
show up in the highest integrityand alignment of ourselves.
Jamy (18:51):
So often we want to right, like, change their behavior,
fix what they're doing, makethem operate differently, and
that is never our right, that isnever our space.
I mean, like, one of my highestvalues is sovereignty, is
freedom within myself, but thatrequires us to then not base our
(19:12):
actions and we'll probably talkthis will be a whole nother
episode about, like sovereigntyand self-empowerment or, you
know, self-sourcing, becausethat's exactly what you're doing
.
Most people will say, well, I'mgonna then change my behavior
based on you.
That's outsourcing, right, like, who do I wanna be?
And then we do that right.
So, and that requiresself-reflection and knowing who
(19:36):
the fuck you are in any givenmoment.
Keri (19:40):
So I want to take this too , because we've said here on the
title it's self-reflection andmirror work, and I think there
is a slight difference betweenthe two.
So self-reflection is what wejust talked about and mirror
work to me is, yes, it'sself-reflection, but it's
because I see in you somethingin me, right.
So when we're in these places,I mean like maybe not the thing
on the floor, but it could belike I.
(20:01):
We were just talking beforethis.
We were talking about my son,sam, and Sam has been since he
was born.
My mirror like I'm sure ifyou're a parent, you probably
have one One of your kids is,you're definite, like you're
like damn, I'm looking at myselfand that's, and that is exactly
.
And even if you're not a parent,I'm sure there's somebody in
(20:21):
your life, because we do.
That is like really your mirror.
You're like yeah.
Jamy (20:25):
And it's often the people that frustrate us the most,
because they've shown us thethings we don't want to see
Right.
Keri (20:30):
Well, the reality is, everybody's a mirror.
Every single person in yourlife is a mirror, but there's
certain people that you come inand you're like man.
It's not technical.
Jamy (20:39):
It's not literal, right, like so.
Sometimes it's like no, I don'tdo that, but they're still
showing you a story that youhave around, that action Right.
It's always a reflection.
Sometimes it may not be aliteral reflection, oftentimes
it is, though it's like where amI doing that same thing just
under a different title or adifferent story or a different?
Keri (20:59):
like I mean, come on, and I'm going to say I'm going to
talk to parents here, becausehow many times does it come out
of your mouth that you're likeyou are doing this thing and
you're like if you actuallystopped, in that moment you're
like who's doing it?
Who am I mad at?
Oh, maybe I need to shut mymouth because maybe yes, they're
doing it, but also who'sshowing them that?
Jamy (21:19):
Yes, yes, and intimate relationships too.
I always say that kids like if,if mirror work is like
self-reflecting, then kids arelike that 10 X, like brightly
lit mirror where you can see allthe things you don't want to
see.
Keri (21:32):
A hundred percent, A hundred percent and when you can
.
Actually, I think this is sopowerful in parenting, though,
because I see a lot of peoplewho don't own this right Like
you go and you do that thingright Cause we're all parents,
we're all human, we're all likeyou know, and shit happens and
we go and we say oh God, you'rejust, you're doing this, and
then in those moments,oftentimes, if you hear your
voice in your head, you probablycan't actually think to
(21:52):
yourself oh yeah, that's, I dothat too.
Jamy (21:54):
Yeah, just in a different way.
Keri (21:56):
The gift that you could give your kid is to actually
then go afterward and go.
Hmm, you know what Sometimes Isay to my kids afterwards, after
I've had my moment to calm mybutt down, when I'm right, is go
, you know what.
I said that to you, but also, Ido that too, and do that too,
and I'm sorry, you know like howcan we both do that better?
Yeah, right, and then own yourstuff with them, because then it
makes you human too, yeah, andit makes them feel like wait,
(22:18):
I'm not in trouble for this.
No, because we're both doing it.
You're not a bad person for it.
Jamy (22:22):
Right, and this is the same with like intimate
relationships, with friendships.
So I used to do this with myhusband all the time Like I
would feel abandonment and thequestion was never like where is
he abandoning me?
It's like where am I abandoningmyself?
Keri (22:34):
Oh my God.
Yes, let's talk about my datingyou guys.
Seriously.
Dating has been like thebiggest mirror for me and I
swear to God like holy moly hasit been a mirror reflection
every time I meet somebody andI'm abandoned, which has
happened many times and you know, Jay Yep, I've been there on
the journey with you, big,sistering from afar.
(22:56):
I'm like okay, where am Iabandoning myself still?
Where am I still not takingcare of myself?
Where am I Like and every timeit would happen, I could be
upset by it.
But the first thing I wouldlook back at is like, where are
you still doing that to yourself?
Jamy (23:14):
That you're attracting somebody who's showing you
abandonment still, and it's soeasy to get mad and technically
they did ghost you, they didabandon right, but it's not
their obligation to meet yourneeds.
So it is shitty behavior and Iwould love to see that change as
well.
But ultimately, continuing tofocus on them is not going to
serve you.
You is not going to help youevolve and change the way that
you're relating to people.
(23:35):
They were just passing ships,you know, and you can continue
to be like pissed at that shipthat's so far down the road that
it doesn't even know youremember you exist and you're
still holding on to it.
It's like what does this showyou?
What do you get to learn fromthis?
How can this shitty experience,or whatever it is, help you to
learn, to evolve, to dosomething better, to see
(23:57):
yourself differently, whateverit is?
Keri (24:00):
Yeah.
So actually I want to speak tothat in the way that it's like,
when that kind of stuff happensand when you see the mirror, I
think the next piece to likereally look at is then, when the
mirror is shown to you, whatare the things that you need to
do in your life to make thatshift?
So when I kept gettingabandoned, I was like, okay,
well, how do I hold myself?
And like, honest to God, theselast two years I've learned so
much about holding myself,loving myself through it.
(24:21):
And like, where am I abandoningmyself?
Okay, well, I was abandoningmyself in my health.
I was abandoning myself in, youknow, some of the ways that I
was looking after myself.
I'm like so how can I expectsomebody else to care for me if
I'm not willing to do that forme?
Right, and so anytime someonewould abandon, it was like, okay
, well, where do you need toshow up for yourself even more?
And then immediately, likeJamie Winnard, immediately, I
(24:41):
would be like, okay, so now Ineed to go do this for myself.
And that's how things havechanged.
It wasn't because I just lookedat it and went, oh, or he's
abandoning me, I'm abandoningmyself.
And then kept going.
Yeah, I saw a meme the otherday.
Jamy (24:52):
That said, awareness is awakening, but then action to
change is evolution.
So just being aware that it'sthere is great and it is the
first step, though it is not, itis not the thing, it is not the
finish line.
It is the first step in makingchange.
You know, and I love too howyou ask, because I think that a
(25:26):
lot of people will say is thatme or isn't that me?
And it's like this yes or no?
Versus where is that me?
Where does that easy to go like, well, I don't do that, so
that's not a mirror for me andthat's that shuts off any
potential to see what's outsideof your awareness.
Versus if I see it, it's, it'sreflecting.
I mean, like I can't see it ifit doesn't exist in my reality,
right Like it just wouldn'tregister.
(25:48):
So when we see it, it's it's ho,else, you know.
So it's like where, what isthis showing me?
Where is this happening?
It's a way different way toself-reflect and to use mirror
work.
Keri (25:59):
And it really is.
Like I mean you've said it iscuriosity and the fact that it's
like, just get curious, yeahRight, like don't get upset.
I mean you can be upset, butlike it's really about like,
okay, just get curious, like,hey, what's here?
Let's notice, like what'saround, what could it be?
Where you know, instead ofshutting down, because the
second you shut down you won'tget the answer and you won't be
(26:19):
able to evolve, and then you'llcontinue to place and I think
this is a really important thingand I we probably need to do a
whole episode on this too whichis, like, when we talk about
these relationships that aretoxic relationships, a lot of
people will say the quoteunquote victim, right, the quote
unquote victim, and I'm goingto go all the way down into like
, really, like, really violentlyunhealthy relationships, right.
(26:42):
And they'll say, well, it's notthe victim's fault, well, if you
don't take responsibility foryour part for not having
boundaries and all these thingsand I really do think we need to
do have a conversation aboutthis then you'll continue to
repeat the pattern.
So, whilst it might not be yourfault that this person is not
kind to you, right, you stillallowed for it.
And if you don't start to havethis reflection and then start
(27:05):
to have this curiosity of likeokay, so if I did have some
responsibility in this, if I waspart of this, what was my part?
That's where you can start tomake the changes, and it doesn't
mean it's all your fault, likepeople have said to me, like I
take so much responsibility andsome people will go Carrie you
over, take responsibility andI'm like the only way that I can
change is by takingresponsibility.
Jamy (27:27):
But there's a difference between victimhood and victim
mentality.
Right Like that, and I thinkthat that's an important
distinction is that somebodythat is in trauma, that is in
survival mode, may not haveaccess to the ability to
self-reflect because they'reliterally just trying to.
Not totally right.
Like so there is a distinctionbetween victimhood, like being a
(27:48):
victim to someone else'sactions, and then that in the
healing process, there is theoption, there is the capacity to
choose that like victimmentality of how do I change my
own perspective of self and myawareness of the way the world
(28:09):
works, to love and value andheal whatever is in me that's
causing, like the receptivity orthe availability to this
experience.
Keri (28:21):
Yes, you know there's a lot of truth to what you're
saying.
Jamy (28:23):
Yeah To like to distinguish.
Keri (28:25):
Because when I, when I was straight out of the marriage,
there's like there is a lot ofnot being able to self-reflect
the way that I can now, becauseit I was in such survival mode.
Jamy (28:33):
Yeah, and the flip side of that, too, is like, um, being
able to say fuck you, like,don't over.
We can overtake responsibilityand excuse away bad behavior,
because we also are not inbalance and loving ourselves
enough to say I'm just notavailable for this, you know.
So there's a balance and thereis a spectrum, and you will find
(28:56):
yourself at every point alongit, and I think another topic
that we'll have to go intodeeper is that the reason that
we don't want to self-reflect,the reason that we don't want to
ask the question and staycurious, is rooted in shame.
Like it's the self-judgmentthat we should know better, that
we, you know, messed it up,that we got it wrong.
And it's like removing thisidea of right and wrong, that
(29:16):
there is a right choice, thereis a wrong choice, there was a
right or a wrong choice.
There just is what is right.
There's no right or wrong to it.
Like you could have made adifferent choice somewhere along
the road, you'd still be facingthe confrontation of shame and
things gone bad and whatever.
Just be different things.
It's that's life, that is thehuman experience, and so we'll,
(29:40):
you know we'll, I'm sure, do awhole episode on shame and what
that is, and how it functionsand how to navigate it.
Keri (29:47):
What we're telling you all beautiful souls who are
listening to this first episode,is we got a lot to talk about,
a lot, a lot.
We're just going to start tolike rambling the things here, I
know, but like keep hangingwith us, because there's going
to be a lot of really amazingconversations that happen on
this show as we continue.
So, to wrap this up, I knowthat you have some steps over
(30:07):
there that can help people getreal clear on this.
Yeah, so the first one wasawareness.
I know you already started intothem, so can you tell the I
think you had three steps ofself-reflection so that you guys
can have some real clarityaround this.
Jamy (30:21):
Yes, so the first step actually is pausing, like just
recognizing that there is kindof this automatic pathway that
happens and it's unconscious,and when you can really get
clear with yourself and committo a pause, like, even if it's
accurate, a pause doesn't hurt,you know.
I mean, of course, barringyou're in like actual danger,
(30:42):
but that's actually a differentthing, right?
We're talking about emotionalreactivity to life.
Pause for just a moment andgive yourself the space to feel
the feels, to be curious, togain awareness.
Without a pause, you are merelyreacting to inner stories being
(31:03):
projected outside of you.
Keri (31:05):
Yes.
Jamy (31:05):
The second step would be emotional and somatic awareness,
so becoming aware of what ismoving.
The somatic awareness is likeliteral sensations in your body,
like for me.
It can be like a tightness inthe chest, or my head is
spinning or my gut is, you know,tight, or whatever it is.
There's an ache in my knee.
I don't like pay attention toyour body and the sensations
(31:29):
that are moving, becauseoftentimes those sensations can
actually be revealing somethingcompletely not connected to the
thing that triggered you um, orit doesn't have like an honest
to god.
Keri (31:39):
Sometimes it's not related to anything.
It's just that you are like ifwe get into like um technical,
it's nervous, like it can be anervous system.
You had a really busy day andyour nervous system is on total
overload and you have not had achance to regulate your nervous
system.
And like, the more more thatI've gotten into this, the more
that I can look at my kids andsometimes I can say, hey guys,
I've had a busy day, my nervoussystem is is at max right now.
(32:02):
So if you push, I don't have itin me to like I might, I might
actually get like a trigger here.
I might react.
It's not you.
So please just be patient withme, because I am at a capacity
and in those moments if Iactually have because usually my
life is not so busy that Ican't stop but sometimes, right,
(32:23):
sometimes life is just like hey, and so I don't have five
minutes, and so I'm like youguys, or it's something that
like I'm so full that it's likeI'm going to take 20 minutes,
going to have to unravel this,right, yeah, and I don't have
that 20 minutes right now.
I'm going to do my best.
So let's all just be patientwith each other, right, we have
that communication too.
Like my kids communicate whenthey're overstimulated as well,
right, Like I'm, I'm at my, I'mat capacity, I'm at capacity.
(32:51):
Thank God that we have kidsthat can say it.
Right, I can then say okay,just go, go, take your 20
minutes, like whatever we had todo all at capacity.
Sometimes those are the momentsthat it's like let's just stop
everything, yeah.
Jamy (33:02):
And that models, because my kids do the same for me.
When I say I'm max, they'relike okay, yeah.
Keri (33:08):
Like Sam the other day looked at me.
I didn't even have to sayanything, he just looked at me.
He's like mom, you need to gobreathe.
And I'm like, okay.
He's like I'm not going to beduntil you walk into your bedroom
and start breathing.
Jamy (33:25):
I'm like, okay, kid, and he was right.
Keri (33:25):
You could see it, cause our kids know this, they can
feel us, they know it, our ourpartners know this Right, and so
when we give ourselves thosefive minutes, then I can come
back and go.
Okay, I'm here for you, youknow.
And so these are the thingsthat we can also do.
To look at like this is nothingto do with a trigger, it's just
like, literally, our bodies are, it's the full spectrum.
Jamy (33:40):
It can literally be, yeah, like nervous system capacity
and, and it can be, um, I mean,I've had experiences where, like
it, you know, like the sweateron the floor actually brings up
like deep trauma from mychildhood, you know.
So it's, it's, it's this fullrange, but without stopping and
just like tapping in, you know,like what's happening here.
(34:01):
And then the emotion, like sosometimes it's easier for people
to label an emotion, like Ithink that the somatics are the
deeper reflection, butoftentimes we want to make
logical sense of it and theemotional label we give, a
sensation that's happening inour nervous system, can help us
(34:22):
decipher what's happening.
And then, also, going underthat right, like, so I feel
angry, okay, but what's underthe anger?
Well, actually that's fear,what's under that?
Well, what's sadness, right.
So it's like you can, you cankeep digging deeper to what is
the actual emotion that'shappening.
So that's that's.
(34:42):
The second step is, like thisawareness, become become curious
and aware of what's going on.
And then the third is theexploration of the unknown,
because the emotional and thesomatic awareness is what we are
consciously aware of.
So then it's like, thenstepping into what am I unaware
of, what do I not, yet what isoutside of my awareness that's
(35:07):
impacting this situation, andthat's that's my process, like
and I do it, I mean like anytime.
Like like that trigger withKyle, I mean like it was busy,
it's a clip season, it's it.
I mean like anytime, like thattrigger with Kyle, I mean like
it was busy, it's eclipse season, it's Mercury, you know, like
all these, whatever's happening,I was totally pissy about a
really simple thing, you know.
So it's like I could have goneinto conflict, I could have
(35:28):
ignored him and given him thecold shoulder for the rest of
the day, whatever right.
But like I stopped, like whatthe heck is happening here?
And it gets easier to do toobecause, like you are in that
like intensity of the moment,like, oh my god, I feel pissed
and you have, that's the pause.
Like okay, I do feel that mynervous system is giving me that
message, but what's actuallyhappening here?
(35:48):
So it's important work and andimagine if people every day, at
the grocery store, at the bank,in traffic, like did this, like
took some self responsibilityfor their state and their
interpretation of the worldaround them, like the world
would be different.
Keri (36:07):
Very different place, yeah .
Jamy (36:10):
It's the one I want to live in, so that's why we're
here.
Why we're here.
I actually think that's areally great place to live in.
Keri (36:14):
So that's why we're here, why we're here.
I actually think that's a reallygreat place to wrap it, because
I think this pretty much sumsit up Like if we all took
self-responsibility and lookedin the mirror and went, hey,
let's bring this back toourselves, we would stop.
I know for me, when I and youmentioned NLP, when I did my NLP
training, neurolinguisticprogramming training my God,
jamie, it was 19 years ago, holymoly, wow, oh God.
(36:36):
I remember, because one of thethings is about
self-responsibility in there,and I remember saying at the
time, if everybody tookself-responsibility, we would
have peace on this planet.
And it has driven me everysingle day of my life and in
this work ever since then is totake this peace and say if every
single person tookself-responsibility for
themselves, there would be noreason to blame another, human
(36:59):
Right Would be no reason toproject your crap, there would
be no reason for war, therewould be no reason for any of
the fighting that we have,because you own your stuff and
you can show up to anotherperson and say hey, I'm feeling
this way, yeah, and this is,this is blah, blah, blah.
Jamy (37:14):
Yeah, then there's no blame, there's no any of that,
and it doesn't mean you're goingto be besties with everybody.
It will also mean that yourpaths will diverge because you
have nothing in common, but youdon't have to go attack you know
, like you don't have to go onthe defensive.
Keri (37:25):
So yes, yeah so thank you all for listening.
Let this be this foundation foran invitation into the way that
you show up for your life andas we carry through this podcast
we're going to say some shitthat's going to trigger you as
you journey with us.
I am sure if you, if you arehere and you know us, you will
(37:49):
be triggered at some point intime, if you haven't already
been triggered yet.
So what we ask is that you lookat yourself and you say where
are these places in me that aretriggering you?
Because that's where the healing, that's the healing, and that's
what we want to bring to theshow, to the world, and to bring
peace, prosperity, pleasure,joy, all the wonderful things in
abundance into this world.
(38:09):
So thanks for joining us forour first episode.
We look forward to many, manymore.
Jamy (38:19):
If you enjoyed this show, let us know.
We're all about authenticconnections, so come chat with
us on social media or email.
Links are listed in the shownotes.
Keri (38:28):
And please make sure to subscribe to the podcast on your
favorite platform and share themagic on your socials.
Welcome to Redefining Normal.
Join us as we questionconventional thinking and talk
about the courage it takes tocreate and live a deliciously
vibrant life.
Jamy (00:10):
This podcast is for people who know there's a better way
to do life and love how we showup in connection to others our
kids, our partners, our businessand, beyond that, our
relationship with money,vitality and, more than anything
, ourselves.
Keri (00:26):
We're two shamelessly unapologetic moms choosing to
experience the fullness of life.
Jamy (00:32):
And we're collapsing the conditioning that says you can't
live a life of pleasure, peaceand abundance in the midst of
the mundane of life,responsibilities, work and kids.
Keri (00:43):
Thank you for listening in .
Let's do this.
Hello and welcome to RedefiningNormal, the first episode of
this well-long-awaited podcast.
With myself, keri Lynn andJamie Miranda, we are so excited
to have you here listening in,and today we are dropping into a
really important foundationalprinciple that will set you guys
(01:06):
up for listening to the rest ofthis show as the years carry on
, and we are talking today aboutmirror work and we'll help you
in your relational dynamics witheveryone in your life as well.
Jamy (01:19):
Absolutely.
Keri (01:21):
Absolutely.
Today we're talking aboutmirror work and self-reflection,
so welcome.
Hey, jayme, do you want tostart with talking about what is
the normal, the normal of whatpeople really start to like?
What we want to start with you,what we're hoping to experience
on this show, is we're going tostart to talk about like, what
(01:43):
is the normal and what is?
How can we redefine normal?
Right, and so can we just starttalking about like, what does
normal look like when we startto have interaction in
relationships?
Um, that tends to be the placewhere I will say so many
relationships go triggered,yucky, messy and hurtful Mm-hmm.
Jamy (02:05):
Mm-hmm.
So, yeah, I think that what'snormal right now is to be
operating from a place ofunconscious trigger.
Most people don't understandhow the mind works, how our
brain and our physiologicalresponses happen like in a
(02:27):
millisecond, based on all of thethings that have happened to us
in the past.
It like makes this quickassessment judgment, it deletes
information, it distortsinformation and it creates a
picture that makes sense to ourcurrent reference points, and so
what we have is a lot of peopleprojecting, is what it's called
(02:49):
, is like.
This is what I see as realityand I'm going to place it on you
and operate like it is, in fact, your reality as well, without
stopping to assess, to wonderwhat's causing this.
Is this actually true?
Is this true for this otherperson that I'm interacting with
(03:10):
?
Yeah, so there's just a lot oftrigger is the word, and I know
trigger is kind of a sensitiveword.
When I say trigger, I'm talkingabout a reactive, like an
unconscious reaction tosomething that's happening in
front of you, without firststopping to assess if it's
(03:33):
actually true or not.
Yeah, and so we have people nothaving relationships or
interacting with another person,but actually a projection from
themselves of that other person.
Keri (03:48):
Yeah, the thing that comes to me when you say that, the
word that comes to me is wounded, right, like we have these
inner wounds that happen becausemaybe we were hurt by a friend
or a lover or a partner or amother or a father in the past.
And we take that wound and we go, oh my God, well, you don't
even realize you're coming fromthat woundedness and you're like
well, sometime in the past thisperson cheated on me or
(04:09):
abandoned me or wasn't therewhen I needed them, or whatever.
And so then you take that andyou project that energy onto
every other relationship.
You expect the same experience,or you come from the wounded
place, and so when they dosomething, the reaction it's a
reaction.
It's like that's why it's thetrigger, right, it's the
reaction.
And so then we go into well,this is how I've got to go and
(04:35):
respond because he's going to dothis or she's going to do this
because of my experience in thepast.
And then we put the projectionbeing, then we put that all over
them, whether that's true forthem or not, right, exactly
Right.
So that can lead to us blamingpeople, projecting all of our
crap over people and reacting topeople in a way that's totally
unnecessary and oftentimeshurtful to the other person.
Jamy (04:58):
Yeah, and I think when you dig into that even more, it can
be a hurt that you consciouslyremember.
It can also be a hurt that iscompletely like you were two and
your mom said get out of theroom right now in whatever was
happening in her life right, butso it anchors into your
awareness according to a certainstory.
(05:21):
So it can even exist outside ofanything.
You consciously remembercreating these reactions.
And I think, on an even smallerscale, it can be beyond
woundedness to something that'sjust happening in another area
of life, like I know.
The example that I had in myworkbook last night was about I
come home and I'm feeling reallyshort and snippy with people.
(05:43):
You know my kid did somethingthat they always do, but this
time it's frustrating and I canreact like it's them.
It's the thing they did thatpissed me off.
But if I can stop for a minuteand be like well, you know, like
what is the sensation?
What's happening?
I recognize I'm frustratedbecause something didn't go
right at work today.
That's not my kid's fault.
Do you know what I mean?
(06:05):
So it's like it's even in theselike minute things that we
project what's happening insideof us onto everybody around us
If we can't stop andself-reflect and be a little bit
aware of what might behappening outside of our
awareness?
This is the hard part.
Is people like, oh, I'm notdoing that, and the second that
you decide it is or isn'thappening, you've shut the door
(06:27):
to like curiosity to see whatyou might not be aware of
Curiosity is so good.
Keri (06:33):
I saw this a lot.
I saw this a lot, for example,with my ex around being tired.
He was a lot tired, a lot Rightand so tired, and I'm saying
this because I know that he'snot alone in this.
I've done this, we've all donethis, like we're all human,
right?
Yeah and um.
And so then people who don'ttake the responsibility, tired
becomes an excuse to be unkindto people.
(06:55):
yeah, well, I'm just cranky, I'mgrumpy and, like it happens
like now, sometimes my kids gobut mom, I'm tired, I'm like
doesn't give you an excuse to bemean to me.
Yeah, if you're tired, go takecare of yourself, go have a rest
, go manage your, your state,because that's not my fault that
you're tired and I understandthat you're tired and I
appreciate that you're tired.
But I don't need to be thevictim of your meanness to me
(07:16):
because you're tired and sosometimes that means that we
move ourselves from that.
So I think this actually comesinto the place of like.
So what is mirror reflection,mirror work and self-reflection?
What does that actually mean Tome?
Jamy (07:33):
it means like exactly what it sounds like, just stopping
for a minute to get curiousabout what's happening inside of
me.
That is creating the story thatI'm reacting to inside of me.
That is creating the story thatI'm reacting to Because it's
all story.
Everything that we experienceis our mind's attempt to make
sense of what we see.
There's actually an NLPtraining.
(07:54):
There's a model of the way themind works and it's a game
changer when you understandwhat's happening at this
millisecond, unconscious place,that our senses, our sight, our
sound, our taste, our, you know,tactile we receive information
and it goes into these.
(08:14):
It checks the files in ourbrain and it distorts, deletes,
or what's the other one?
Distorts, deletes.
I'm going to look Files.
I can't remember Distortsdeletes.
Keri (08:26):
I'm gonna look files I can't remember.
Distorts these files?
Jamy (08:28):
no, distort delete, and I have like a picture distorts,
deletes and generalizes.
So it's like you know, it'slike, well, I mean, like all
people that do this, this justmakes sense.
We'll put them into thiscategory to make it simple.
So, by the way, hold on pausepause there.
Keri (08:45):
generalizing being your alls and your nevers, people
that do this.
This just makes sense.
We'll put them into thiscategory to make it simple.
So, by the way, hold on pause,pause there.
Generalizing being your allsand your nevers and your always
like this is crucially huge incommunication for yourself.
Like there is no all, there isno always, there is no, never
like, really watch your mindsetand your energy and your in your
words, out of your mouth, thatsay that, because when you start
projecting that on someone, andyour in your words, out of your
mouth, that say that, becausewhen you start projecting that
(09:06):
on someone, you always do this.
Do they really?
You never do this, do theyreally?
And that's a total likegeneralization to that will hurt
all of you.
Jamy (09:14):
Yeah, I mean it literally is like putting blinders on and
you're you're limiting yourawareness to this very minute
moment of them and calling thatall of them, right.
So our minds do that immediatelywith the information that comes
in, because we can only processso much information at any
given moment, like there is arate of information processing
(09:38):
capacity of our minds, and so ittakes that information and
tries to make sense of it in thebest way that can.
And it's according to our pastexperiences, what we've been
taught, what we've seen asnormal, real, the way it should
be, all of these things, and aslong as we are not stopping to
check the automatic process thathappened, verify it, is this
(10:02):
accurate, is this, does thismake sense, is this true?
For me, we are just reacting atan unconscious level to things
that we have, most of the time,unintentionally taken on.
So, self-reflection, is thatpause to ask and to check.
Is this accurate?
(10:22):
Sometimes it is.
I'm not saying that, like, allreaction is bad, sometimes there
is an accuracy to that, but Ithink we have a responsibility
to stop and check, like what'shappening in me that's creating
this, this story, is it servingme, is it accurate, and how do I
actually want to respond?
Keri (10:43):
Not, I think it's the physiological response.
Yeah, I think it's reallyinteresting how you say is it
accurate?
Something I have really paidattention to and this comes down
to the distortion piece of this, of course but something I've
been paying really a lot ofattention to and I've been
hearing so much in people is thestories we tell ourselves.
And I hear people and like Iknow I used to do this like a
(11:03):
lot, a lot, a lot Right, so Ifully own this and it's totally
detrimental, totally messy, andit would be like somebody does
something and then I make up awhole story in my mind about
what it means, Right.
Well, that means like he didthis thing, so that means that
he doesn't like this and he's anasshole and he hates me and I'm
(11:25):
this and blah, blah, blah.
Whatever the thing is Right,and we create an entire story up
in our mind about what it means, but it's like to them.
They're like I didn't, I justsaid a word, I didn't even.
Yeah, I was daydreaming.
Jamy (11:34):
What you're talking about.
Keri (11:36):
You're like really and actually.
Jamy (11:39):
I feel the opposite of whatever that story you just
told me is.
Keri (11:43):
Right, but we're really upset about it and then we and
then we go through the day,especially if this is your
family or partners, peopleyou're close with, then we go
through the day in this reactive, like angry place with them and
you're like it wasn't even true, like that was just something I
made up in my mind.
And I hear people say thisoften and I'm like how do you
know?
Like this is a question you canask yourself.
How do you know?
(12:05):
Yeah, right, because if youhaven't asked them, you don't.
Actually and I'm saying thisbecause I know a lot of people
who are going to listen to thisare very intuitive, psychic,
spiritual human beings.
I am too, jamie is too, and I'mlike and there's times like,
the truth is that oftentimes myintuition is pretty spot on and
is pretty spot on, and when Italk to the person, a lot of
times it's pretty spot on butthe times that it's not, it's
(12:34):
way off.
Jamy (12:34):
Well, and you?
Keri (12:34):
can't have an accurate, intuitive read and still have
the wrong story, right, you know, like the story.
Jamy (12:37):
Our story may not.
It's.
It's almost like um I don'tknow what the word is it's like
toxic or it is out of integrityto actually project our own
story on someone else.
You know, I think the importantthing too, carrie, to really
acknowledge here is that itfeels real.
So what happens in the mindwith that reaction is it creates
(12:58):
a physiological response thatthen creates and informs our
state.
So it's like, no, I can feelthis right, like my heart is
racing or my whatever.
And it's like, yeah, it feelsreally real and it is
manifesting in your body.
So we're not saying that likeit's all fake and it's all
(13:21):
whatever.
This is a real response that'shappening.
But the reflection comes incuriosity and is this accurate
and is this reaction appropriatefor the actual thing that's
happening in front of me?
Keri (13:36):
And can I pause?
And it's also like, can I pausethe reaction until I know the
truth?
Yes, right, like can I know thatthis is here and feel Okay, can
I feel the feelings that arefeeling inside of me Because I
am having this trigger, I amhaving this reaction regardless
of the story, regardless of them.
Can I feel this be in this, canI let this be without a story
playing in my mind?
And or can I even just like,come to peace and like let it
(13:58):
sit there, knowing that this islike a thing that's going on and
until I've actually had theconversation with somebody which
I think is a really big pieceof this work is having the
vulnerability to have theconversations instead of just
letting it be a story in yourmind that you then sometimes, in
marriages and relationships andwhatever these things, can go
for months without sayinganything and then you let that
(14:20):
physical part of you be in yourbody and in that disconnect, and
then more and more and moreresentment and disconnect
happens, when all you had to dowas say, hey, I have this story
that's happening in my mind,yeah, and I think this is what's
going on.
I don't know what's happeningfor you, but can we talk about
it so that I can let this storygo and let it leave your body?
Yeah.
Jamy (14:39):
Exactly that happened to us this weekend.
Kyle said something.
I don't remember what I don't.
It was something simple, youknow, like why is this?
Why is this sweater on thefloor?
Innocent question, right, Imean, it's a logical question.
But I felt like a like aannoyance with it and I had to
(15:05):
stop because it's easy to belike, oh, he's judging me, he's
whatever.
You know, it was like thisdefensiveness immediately and
I'm like, ah, whoa, that was alot.
And so I said I'm like that,the way you said that, um, this
is what, how it registered in mysystem.
And and it's beautiful, becauseI think Kyle and I've gotten to
(15:25):
the point, like where he usedto if I would express what's
happening in me, he would thentake it as accusation or defense
or something he needs to fix.
And we've gotten to this pointwhere it's like, when I say I'm
feeling this in response to that, I'm not expecting you to do
anything different.
You may like, if it thenresonates in you and you're like
, oh yeah, that was there or waswhatever right, you get to self
(15:46):
reflect as well.
But this, this, like justcommunicating that like ruffled
my feathers a little bit.
Let me just be with whateverthat was, and he was like, oh,
that's not at all what I wastrying to do.
I was just actually reallycurious if it like needed to go
into the laundry room or doanything up or whatever, and so
you know even just thatrecognition that like oh, I am
(16:08):
like really ticked off, what theheck is happening, Right, but
it is.
Keri (16:15):
But it's like and I think I love that you actually brought
it that it was such a small,like really insignificant thing
in this life, Right.
But these are the places that,when we don't recognize that and
we don't self-reflect, theseare the places that resentment
builds up over and over and over, Because if he did that over
and over and over again and younever said anything, you just
get more and more resentful andangry and he'd be like why are
you angry with me?
And he has no idea why.
Why are you angry with me?
Jamy (16:35):
Because you asked me and my sweater was on the floor,
don't you get it?
Well, and I think I could haveeither gotten really pissy, you
know like just picked it up,like it's like what's going on
here?
Because the question I alwaysis what do I like, how do I want
to be in my relationships, andis this action I'm taking
(16:56):
facilitating that?
Even if the pissed off wasjustified, even if he was
judging me, even if he wasnagging me, whatever, like that
doesn't mean that my reactionhas to match that.
What am I creating?
What do I want to do here?
Because there's so many timesit's like, yeah, justified, but
is it still in alignment withyou're trying to create?
(17:16):
If it's not, you have thechoice to do different and I
think that's important to carry.
Keri (17:22):
Is this awareness that, because it's not normal to
communicate this way, you may bemet with defensiveness, with
frustration with you know, likewhatever and it takes a bit to
like change the way, the norm ofour communicating in our
intimate relationships even,even still and you and I have
talked about this, even in myexperience of ending a marriage
(17:45):
right, there have been manytimes where I could have gone
the low road right, where Icould have shown up to meet him
where he's at.
And I have chosen over and overagain and I've had you and so
many friends who've said to meCarrie, therapist, everybody,
carrie, you really are choosingthe high road.
I'm like, I'm choosing to bemyself, no matter how he shows
up for it.
And there's things that I havedone that people like Carrie and
(18:06):
I'm like I'm going to, like hemoved yesterday and on Monday
and I offered to help and peoplelike are you kidding?
And I'm like, no, because if itwas me on the opposite side, I
would like we're still like,they're still my kids and that's
an alignment with therelationship you want to bring.
That I choose Right.
And I'm like, and I said, ifthat's what, if it was for me
and I was the one moving, Iwould want him to say, hey, is
(18:29):
there anything I can do tosupport you right now?
Yeah, and the reality is heprobably will not do that Right,
and I have no expectation thathe will, but I'm still going to
choose to show up, yeah, as theperson that I am, regardless of
how he does.
Yes, and that is, I think, areally important piece of this
we can't change how the otherperson does show up, but we can
show up in the highest integrityand alignment of ourselves.
Jamy (18:51):
So often we want to right, like, change their behavior,
fix what they're doing, makethem operate differently, and
that is never our right, that isnever our space.
I mean, like, one of my highestvalues is sovereignty, is
freedom within myself, but thatrequires us to then not base our
(19:12):
actions and we'll probably talkthis will be a whole nother
episode about, like sovereigntyand self-empowerment or, you
know, self-sourcing, becausethat's exactly what you're doing
.
Most people will say, well, I'mgonna then change my behavior
based on you.
That's outsourcing, right, like, who do I wanna be?
And then we do that right.
So, and that requiresself-reflection and knowing who
(19:36):
the fuck you are in any givenmoment.
Keri (19:40):
So I want to take this too , because we've said here on the
title it's self-reflection andmirror work, and I think there
is a slight difference betweenthe two.
So self-reflection is what wejust talked about and mirror
work to me is, yes, it'sself-reflection, but it's
because I see in you somethingin me, right.
So when we're in these places,I mean like maybe not the thing
on the floor, but it could belike I.
(20:01):
We were just talking beforethis.
We were talking about my son,sam, and Sam has been since he
was born.
My mirror like I'm sure ifyou're a parent, you probably
have one One of your kids is,you're definite, like you're
like damn, I'm looking at myselfand that's, and that is exactly
.
And even if you're not a parent,I'm sure there's somebody in
(20:21):
your life, because we do.
That is like really your mirror.
You're like yeah.
Jamy (20:25):
And it's often the people that frustrate us the most,
because they've shown us thethings we don't want to see
Right.
Keri (20:30):
Well, the reality is, everybody's a mirror.
Every single person in yourlife is a mirror, but there's
certain people that you come inand you're like man.
It's not technical.
Jamy (20:39):
It's not literal, right, like so.
Sometimes it's like no, I don'tdo that, but they're still
showing you a story that youhave around, that action Right.
It's always a reflection.
Sometimes it may not be aliteral reflection, oftentimes
it is, though it's like where amI doing that same thing just
under a different title or adifferent story or a different?
Keri (20:59):
like I mean, come on, and I'm going to say I'm going to
talk to parents here, becausehow many times does it come out
of your mouth that you're likeyou are doing this thing and
you're like if you actuallystopped, in that moment you're
like who's doing it?
Who am I mad at?
Oh, maybe I need to shut mymouth because maybe yes, they're
doing it, but also who'sshowing them that?
Jamy (21:19):
Yes, yes, and intimate relationships too.
I always say that kids like if,if mirror work is like
self-reflecting, then kids arelike that 10 X, like brightly
lit mirror where you can see allthe things you don't want to
see.
Keri (21:32):
A hundred percent, A hundred percent and when you can
.
Actually, I think this is sopowerful in parenting, though,
because I see a lot of peoplewho don't own this right Like
you go and you do that thingright Cause we're all parents,
we're all human, we're all likeyou know, and shit happens and
we go and we say oh God, you'rejust, you're doing this, and
then in those moments,oftentimes, if you hear your
voice in your head, you probablycan't actually think to
(21:52):
yourself oh yeah, that's, I dothat too.
Jamy (21:54):
Yeah, just in a different way.
Keri (21:56):
The gift that you could give your kid is to actually
then go afterward and go.
Hmm, you know what Sometimes Isay to my kids afterwards, after
I've had my moment to calm mybutt down, when I'm right, is go
, you know what.
I said that to you, but also, Ido that too, and do that too,
and I'm sorry, you know like howcan we both do that better?
Yeah, right, and then own yourstuff with them, because then it
makes you human too, yeah, andit makes them feel like wait,
(22:18):
I'm not in trouble for this.
No, because we're both doing it.
You're not a bad person for it.
Jamy (22:22):
Right, and this is the same with like intimate
relationships, with friendships.
So I used to do this with myhusband all the time Like I
would feel abandonment and thequestion was never like where is
he abandoning me?
It's like where am I abandoningmyself?
Keri (22:34):
Oh my God.
Yes, let's talk about my datingyou guys.
Seriously.
Dating has been like thebiggest mirror for me and I
swear to God like holy moly hasit been a mirror reflection
every time I meet somebody andI'm abandoned, which has
happened many times and you know, Jay Yep, I've been there on
the journey with you, big,sistering from afar.
(22:56):
I'm like okay, where am Iabandoning myself still?
Where am I still not takingcare of myself?
Where am I Like and every timeit would happen, I could be
upset by it.
But the first thing I wouldlook back at is like, where are
you still doing that to yourself?
Jamy (23:14):
That you're attracting somebody who's showing you
abandonment still, and it's soeasy to get mad and technically
they did ghost you, they didabandon right, but it's not
their obligation to meet yourneeds.
So it is shitty behavior and Iwould love to see that change as
well.
But ultimately, continuing tofocus on them is not going to
serve you.
You is not going to help youevolve and change the way that
you're relating to people.
(23:35):
They were just passing ships,you know, and you can continue
to be like pissed at that shipthat's so far down the road that
it doesn't even know youremember you exist and you're
still holding on to it.
It's like what does this showyou?
What do you get to learn fromthis?
How can this shitty experience,or whatever it is, help you to
learn, to evolve, to dosomething better, to see
(23:57):
yourself differently, whateverit is?
Keri (24:00):
Yeah.
So actually I want to speak tothat in the way that it's like,
when that kind of stuff happensand when you see the mirror, I
think the next piece to likereally look at is then, when the
mirror is shown to you, whatare the things that you need to
do in your life to make thatshift?
So when I kept gettingabandoned, I was like, okay,
well, how do I hold myself?
And like, honest to God, theselast two years I've learned so
much about holding myself,loving myself through it.
(24:21):
And like, where am I abandoningmyself?
Okay, well, I was abandoningmyself in my health.
I was abandoning myself in, youknow, some of the ways that I
was looking after myself.
I'm like so how can I expectsomebody else to care for me if
I'm not willing to do that forme?
Right, and so anytime someonewould abandon, it was like, okay
, well, where do you need toshow up for yourself even more?
And then immediately, likeJamie Winnard, immediately, I
(24:41):
would be like, okay, so now Ineed to go do this for myself.
And that's how things havechanged.
It wasn't because I just lookedat it and went, oh, or he's
abandoning me, I'm abandoningmyself.
And then kept going.
Yeah, I saw a meme the otherday.
Jamy (24:52):
That said, awareness is awakening, but then action to
change is evolution.
So just being aware that it'sthere is great and it is the
first step, though it is not, itis not the thing, it is not the
finish line.
It is the first step in makingchange.
You know, and I love too howyou ask, because I think that a
(25:26):
lot of people will say is thatme or isn't that me?
And it's like this yes or no?
Versus where is that me?
Where does that easy to go like, well, I don't do that, so
that's not a mirror for me andthat's that shuts off any
potential to see what's outsideof your awareness.
Versus if I see it, it's, it'sreflecting.
I mean, like I can't see it ifit doesn't exist in my reality,
right Like it just wouldn'tregister.
(25:48):
So when we see it, it's it's ho,else, you know.
So it's like where, what isthis showing me?
Where is this happening?
It's a way different way toself-reflect and to use mirror
work.
Keri (25:59):
And it really is.
Like I mean you've said it iscuriosity and the fact that it's
like, just get curious, yeahRight, like don't get upset.
I mean you can be upset, butlike it's really about like,
okay, just get curious, like,hey, what's here?
Let's notice, like what'saround, what could it be?
Where you know, instead ofshutting down, because the
second you shut down you won'tget the answer and you won't be
(26:19):
able to evolve, and then you'llcontinue to place and I think
this is a really important thingand I we probably need to do a
whole episode on this too whichis, like, when we talk about
these relationships that aretoxic relationships, a lot of
people will say the quoteunquote victim, right, the quote
unquote victim, and I'm goingto go all the way down into like
, really, like, really violentlyunhealthy relationships, right.
(26:42):
And they'll say, well, it's notthe victim's fault, well, if you
don't take responsibility foryour part for not having
boundaries and all these thingsand I really do think we need to
do have a conversation aboutthis then you'll continue to
repeat the pattern.
So, whilst it might not be yourfault that this person is not
kind to you, right, you stillallowed for it.
And if you don't start to havethis reflection and then start
(27:05):
to have this curiosity of likeokay, so if I did have some
responsibility in this, if I waspart of this, what was my part?
That's where you can start tomake the changes, and it doesn't
mean it's all your fault, likepeople have said to me, like I
take so much responsibility andsome people will go Carrie you
over, take responsibility andI'm like the only way that I can
change is by takingresponsibility.
Jamy (27:27):
But there's a difference between victimhood and victim
mentality.
Right Like that, and I thinkthat that's an important
distinction is that somebodythat is in trauma, that is in
survival mode, may not haveaccess to the ability to
self-reflect because they'reliterally just trying to.
Not totally right.
Like so there is a distinctionbetween victimhood, like being a
(27:48):
victim to someone else'sactions, and then that in the
healing process, there is theoption, there is the capacity to
choose that like victimmentality of how do I change my
own perspective of self and myawareness of the way the world
(28:09):
works, to love and value andheal whatever is in me that's
causing, like the receptivity orthe availability to this
experience.
Keri (28:21):
Yes, you know there's a lot of truth to what you're
saying.
Jamy (28:23):
Yeah To like to distinguish.
Keri (28:25):
Because when I, when I was straight out of the marriage,
there's like there is a lot ofnot being able to self-reflect
the way that I can now, becauseit I was in such survival mode.
Jamy (28:33):
Yeah, and the flip side of that, too, is like, um, being
able to say fuck you, like,don't over.
We can overtake responsibilityand excuse away bad behavior,
because we also are not inbalance and loving ourselves
enough to say I'm just notavailable for this, you know.
So there's a balance and thereis a spectrum, and you will find
(28:56):
yourself at every point alongit, and I think another topic
that we'll have to go intodeeper is that the reason that
we don't want to self-reflect,the reason that we don't want to
ask the question and staycurious, is rooted in shame.
Like it's the self-judgmentthat we should know better, that
we, you know, messed it up,that we got it wrong.
And it's like removing thisidea of right and wrong, that
(29:16):
there is a right choice, thereis a wrong choice, there was a
right or a wrong choice.
There just is what is right.
There's no right or wrong to it.
Like you could have made adifferent choice somewhere along
the road, you'd still be facingthe confrontation of shame and
things gone bad and whatever.
Just be different things.
It's that's life, that is thehuman experience, and so we'll,
(29:40):
you know we'll, I'm sure, do awhole episode on shame and what
that is, and how it functionsand how to navigate it.
Keri (29:47):
What we're telling you all beautiful souls who are
listening to this first episode,is we got a lot to talk about,
a lot, a lot.
We're just going to start tolike rambling the things here, I
know, but like keep hangingwith us, because there's going
to be a lot of really amazingconversations that happen on
this show as we continue.
So, to wrap this up, I knowthat you have some steps over
(30:07):
there that can help people getreal clear on this.
Yeah, so the first one wasawareness.
I know you already started intothem, so can you tell the I
think you had three steps ofself-reflection so that you guys
can have some real clarityaround this.
Jamy (30:21):
Yes, so the first step actually is pausing, like just
recognizing that there is kindof this automatic pathway that
happens and it's unconscious,and when you can really get
clear with yourself and committo a pause, like, even if it's
accurate, a pause doesn't hurt,you know.
I mean, of course, barringyou're in like actual danger,
(30:42):
but that's actually a differentthing, right?
We're talking about emotionalreactivity to life.
Pause for just a moment andgive yourself the space to feel
the feels, to be curious, togain awareness.
Without a pause, you are merelyreacting to inner stories being
(31:03):
projected outside of you.
Keri (31:05):
Yes.
Jamy (31:05):
The second step would be emotional and somatic awareness,
so becoming aware of what ismoving.
The somatic awareness is likeliteral sensations in your body,
like for me.
It can be like a tightness inthe chest, or my head is
spinning or my gut is, you know,tight, or whatever it is.
There's an ache in my knee.
I don't like pay attention toyour body and the sensations
(31:29):
that are moving, becauseoftentimes those sensations can
actually be revealing somethingcompletely not connected to the
thing that triggered you um, orit doesn't have like an honest
to god.
Keri (31:39):
Sometimes it's not related to anything.
It's just that you are like ifwe get into like um technical,
it's nervous, like it can be anervous system.
You had a really busy day andyour nervous system is on total
overload and you have not had achance to regulate your nervous
system.
And like, the more more thatI've gotten into this, the more
that I can look at my kids andsometimes I can say, hey guys,
I've had a busy day, my nervoussystem is is at max right now.
(32:02):
So if you push, I don't have itin me to like I might, I might
actually get like a trigger here.
I might react.
It's not you.
So please just be patient withme, because I am at a capacity
and in those moments if Iactually have because usually my
life is not so busy that Ican't stop but sometimes, right,
(32:23):
sometimes life is just like hey, and so I don't have five
minutes, and so I'm like youguys, or it's something that
like I'm so full that it's likeI'm going to take 20 minutes,
going to have to unravel this,right, yeah, and I don't have
that 20 minutes right now.
I'm going to do my best.
So let's all just be patientwith each other, right, we have
that communication too.
Like my kids communicate whenthey're overstimulated as well,
right, Like I'm, I'm at my, I'mat capacity, I'm at capacity.
(32:51):
Thank God that we have kidsthat can say it.
Right, I can then say okay,just go, go, take your 20
minutes, like whatever we had todo all at capacity.
Sometimes those are the momentsthat it's like let's just stop
everything, yeah.
Jamy (33:02):
And that models, because my kids do the same for me.
When I say I'm max, they'relike okay, yeah.
Keri (33:08):
Like Sam the other day looked at me.
I didn't even have to sayanything, he just looked at me.
He's like mom, you need to gobreathe.
And I'm like, okay.
He's like I'm not going to beduntil you walk into your bedroom
and start breathing.
Jamy (33:25):
I'm like, okay, kid, and he was right.
Keri (33:25):
You could see it, cause our kids know this, they can
feel us, they know it, our ourpartners know this Right, and so
when we give ourselves thosefive minutes, then I can come
back and go.
Okay, I'm here for you, youknow.
And so these are the thingsthat we can also do.
To look at like this is nothingto do with a trigger, it's just
like, literally, our bodies are, it's the full spectrum.
Jamy (33:40):
It can literally be, yeah, like nervous system capacity
and, and it can be, um, I mean,I've had experiences where, like
it, you know, like the sweateron the floor actually brings up
like deep trauma from mychildhood, you know.
So it's, it's, it's this fullrange, but without stopping and
just like tapping in, you know,like what's happening here.
(34:01):
And then the emotion, like sosometimes it's easier for people
to label an emotion, like Ithink that the somatics are the
deeper reflection, butoftentimes we want to make
logical sense of it and theemotional label we give, a
sensation that's happening inour nervous system, can help us
(34:22):
decipher what's happening.
And then, also, going underthat right, like, so I feel
angry, okay, but what's underthe anger?
Well, actually that's fear,what's under that?
Well, what's sadness, right.
So it's like you can, you cankeep digging deeper to what is
the actual emotion that'shappening.
So that's that's.
(34:42):
The second step is, like thisawareness, become become curious
and aware of what's going on.
And then the third is theexploration of the unknown,
because the emotional and thesomatic awareness is what we are
consciously aware of.
So then it's like, thenstepping into what am I unaware
of, what do I not, yet what isoutside of my awareness that's
(35:07):
impacting this situation, andthat's that's my process, like
and I do it, I mean like anytime.
Like like that trigger withKyle, I mean like it was busy,
it's a clip season, it's it.
I mean like anytime, like thattrigger with Kyle, I mean like
it was busy, it's eclipse season, it's Mercury, you know, like
all these, whatever's happening,I was totally pissy about a
really simple thing, you know.
So it's like I could have goneinto conflict, I could have
(35:28):
ignored him and given him thecold shoulder for the rest of
the day, whatever right.
But like I stopped, like whatthe heck is happening here?
And it gets easier to do toobecause, like you are in that
like intensity of the moment,like, oh my god, I feel pissed
and you have, that's the pause.
Like okay, I do feel that mynervous system is giving me that
message, but what's actuallyhappening here?
(35:48):
So it's important work and andimagine if people every day, at
the grocery store, at the bank,in traffic, like did this, like
took some self responsibilityfor their state and their
interpretation of the worldaround them, like the world
would be different.
Keri (36:07):
Very different place, yeah .
Jamy (36:10):
It's the one I want to live in, so that's why we're
here.
Why we're here.
I actually think that's areally great place to live in.
Keri (36:14):
So that's why we're here, why we're here.
I actually think that's a reallygreat place to wrap it, because
I think this pretty much sumsit up Like if we all took
self-responsibility and lookedin the mirror and went, hey,
let's bring this back toourselves, we would stop.
I know for me, when I and youmentioned NLP, when I did my NLP
training, neurolinguisticprogramming training my God,
jamie, it was 19 years ago, holymoly, wow, oh God.
(36:36):
I remember, because one of thethings is about
self-responsibility in there,and I remember saying at the
time, if everybody tookself-responsibility, we would
have peace on this planet.
And it has driven me everysingle day of my life and in
this work ever since then is totake this peace and say if every
single person tookself-responsibility for
themselves, there would be noreason to blame another, human
(36:59):
Right Would be no reason toproject your crap, there would
be no reason for war, therewould be no reason for any of
the fighting that we have,because you own your stuff and
you can show up to anotherperson and say hey, I'm feeling
this way, yeah, and this is,this is blah, blah, blah.
Jamy (37:14):
Yeah, then there's no blame, there's no any of that,
and it doesn't mean you're goingto be besties with everybody.
It will also mean that yourpaths will diverge because you
have nothing in common, but youdon't have to go attack you know
, like you don't have to go onthe defensive.
Keri (37:25):
So yes, yeah so thank you all for listening.
Let this be this foundation foran invitation into the way that
you show up for your life andas we carry through this podcast
we're going to say some shitthat's going to trigger you as
you journey with us.
I am sure if you, if you arehere and you know us, you will
(37:49):
be triggered at some point intime, if you haven't already
been triggered yet.
So what we ask is that you lookat yourself and you say where
are these places in me that aretriggering you?
Because that's where the healing, that's the healing, and that's
what we want to bring to theshow, to the world, and to bring
peace, prosperity, pleasure,joy, all the wonderful things in
abundance into this world.
(38:09):
So thanks for joining us forour first episode.
We look forward to many, manymore.
Jamy (38:19):
If you enjoyed this show, let us know.
We're all about authenticconnections, so come chat with
us on social media or email.
Links are listed in the shownotes.
Keri (38:28):
And please make sure to subscribe to the podcast on your
favorite platform and share themagic on your socials.
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