Episode 2: The Act of 'Staying Open" in Creating Authentic Bonds

Have you ever found yourself opening up to someone new, only to feel the urge to retreat into your shell, haunted by the ghosts of old fears and past hurts? Join Keri Lynn and Jamy Miranda as we share our raw and revealing personal experiences with the ever-evolving dance of relationships, from the tentative steps of dating to the deep dives of spiritual compatibility. This episode promises an intimate look at the courage it takes to choose vulnerability and the strength found in embracing change, all while maintaining your true north amidst the emotional triggers that relationships can bring to the surface.

As we peel back the layers of what it means to connect authentically, we navigate through the importance of spiritual alignment and the dynamism of masculine and feminine energies within us all. The conversation flows through the complexities of growth within partnerships and the delicate art of communication, underscoring the power of personal accountability and the resilience required to support each other through times of vulnerability. Join us for anecdotes that will resonate, advice that empowers, and insights into honoring your personal journey while fostering harmony in your connections.

Wrap up this enlightening dialogue with a deep exploration into the transformative effects of heartbreak and the freedom that comes from loving without guarantees. We celebrate the messy, yet liberating, journey toward self-discovery and the richness of relationships that allow us to thrive as our truest selves. Don't miss this enriching session filled with tales of sisterly support and personal revelations post-divorce, as we invite you to redefine normal with us. Subscribe and become part of our community as we continue to seek pleasure, peace, and abundance together.

Episode Transcript

Keri (00:01):
Welcome to Redefining Normal.
Join us as we questionconventional thinking and talk
about the courage it takes tocreate and live a deliciously
vibrant life.

Jamy (00:11):
This podcast is for people who know there's a better way
to do life and love how we showup in connection to others our
kids, our partners, our businessand, beyond that, our
relationship with money,vitality and, more than anything
, ourselves.

Keri (00:28):
We're two shamelessly unapologetic moms choosing to
experience the fullness of life.

Jamy (00:33):
And we're collapsing the conditioning that says you can't
live a life of pleasure, peaceand abundance in the midst of
the mundane of life,responsibilities, work and kids.

Keri (00:44):
Thank you for listening in .
Let's do this.
Hello and welcome to RedefiningNormal with Keri Lynn and Jamie
Miranda.
This week we are having a we'rehaving a conversation often.
I'm going to start it this wayOftentimes, before we get on our
calls, she and I are sittinghere talking and having some
sort of conversation, and sotoday, the conversation is

(01:05):
around this new experience ofdating for me dating a new guy
and we were talking about howI'm navigating things a little
bit differently than I wouldhave in the past, and so how do
we move into it?
We want to talk today a lotabout how we move into the fear
of unknown and also how do weshift our patterns and our
relational patterns when we'vebeen doing things in the past

(01:25):
and now we want to change thingsand do them differently.
And how do we show updifferently for ourselves within
?
This can be intimaterelationships, friendships,
co-working.
However, we want to look atthis.
But how do we shift relationalpatterns and show up differently
?
Yes, yes, jamie.

Jamy (01:40):
Yeah, yeah.
So first of all I want to saythank you to you, because it's
really vulnerable to talk aboutintimate relationships and being
really honest about what'shappening internally, seeing
your own shadow and then alsobeing willing to share it
externally.
So I think that it's a reallypowerful gift that you're

(02:01):
willing to kind of share thebehind the scenes of this whole.
You know experience or processand what's happening internally.
But the thing that really hasstood out to me in what you were
sharing earlier and we willshare with all of you and get
into the details of it really isthe ability to recognize when

(02:24):
you want to close and choosingto stay open.
So can you share a little bitabout what happened in the space
, the conversation, therelationship that initiated that
desire to close that oldpattern?

Keri (02:42):
to close that old pattern Without getting too into detail
around it.
It really is a.
It was a conversation thatsomething had triggered in me
that had happened in a pastrelationship and I didn't want
any experience of thisrelationship and the old me has
definitely shut down in the pastand gone.

(03:03):
Nope, I'm not going to dealwith this.
I don't want to have anythingto do with this.
This is not okay.
I don't want to talk about it.
I want to completely shut youout and what Jamie and I were
talking about.
I'm a manifester in human designand so manifesters, to be
really clear with everybody withit.
We have a closed aura, so it'shard enough as it is for anyone
you have to be able to like Ihave to choose to let you in and
if I don't choose to let you in, for any of you who are

(03:24):
listening, you won't be able tonecessarily feel me.
And it's interesting becauseone of the things I've played
with in the world of my owndating has been meeting new
people.
It's been like I want to meetmanifestors, to meet what it
feels like, to meet the aura.
I'm like, oh man, we really areclosed, we really are hard to
read and unable to be readunless we let you in.
And so for me, this is a really, really, really big piece,

(03:47):
because I consciously have tochoose to let somebody in and
when I'm not consciouslychoosing, it's already something
you can't feel or read.
And then when I shut down, itmakes it a hundred million times
worse.
And it's been my relationalpattern to completely either be
an anxious attachment orcompletely go the other way and
avoid and be like I'm totallyshutting you out, I can't be
fucked.
You've hurt me too much and I'mgoing to and I don't want to

(04:09):
even deal with this, I don'twant to talk about this anymore
because you're not listening tome, you're not hearing me, fuck
off.
And so this is where I wasyesterday, when you're having
this conversation, and it wassomething that triggered because
I had been hurt by thissituation before in the past.
I had been hurt by what thisperson was asking of me and I
didn't want it.
I don't want that in myrelationship.

(04:31):
And instead of shutting down, Iwas willing to and able to hear
the person and have compassionand have an understanding of
where this person's coming fromand why he wants this, and not
totally shut him out.

Jamy (04:50):
Right and I think that, because I have a similar dynamic
in my two line in the hermit islike this kind of closed or
discerning, like not everybodycan get inside of a two line.
But also I think beyond that,it's a human nature, it's like a
defense mechanism like, oh hurt, so I'm going to close my heart

(05:13):
, I'm going to close my, um, myability to feel you, because
whatever you're going to do isgoing to potentially hurt me.
So I'm just going to close theconnection.

Keri (05:24):
I think something, something you've said to me
throughout my whole datingprocess, regardless of the
situation is, is this concept,and Jamie has reflected back to
me over and over and over again.
You guys, if you've like, andwe will talk over the next
however many episodes this goeson for about, I'm sure more shit
will come up about my dating,because there's been some
seriously dumb shit that's goingon, right, and I say this

(05:46):
because, over and over and overagain, I've had people hurt me
and do things that have beenreally hurtful and do things
that I'm like, wow, humanities,this is really where we're at.
And one of the things thatJamie reflects back to me every
time is the compassion that Ihave, and not just for the other
person, but for the fact that Ithen go and I go.
Well, that hurt.

(06:06):
Okay, where am I going to opennext and every time, show up in
this place of my open heart tomeet somebody, because I firmly
believe that when we're going tomeet somebody, if I show up
closed and I show up, that it'sgoing to hurt, and I show up and
I say, well, you're going to bean idiot and you're going to be
a jackass and you're going tobe a fraction of all the other

(06:28):
people, then exactly what I'mgoing to get is that, and
they're never going to get tomeet me, because I came with a
closed heart and I said, no, youdon't get me Right, right.
And so the challenge for me hasbeen in be like yep, that hurt
and keep my heart open.
Yep, that hurt and keep myheart open.
And I think this is truewhether you're dating or whether
you're in marriage, becauseeven in marriage, you guys like

(06:54):
Jamie and friendship, oh my God,and especially female
friendships.
Ladies, come on.
Yeah, like seriously, I've beenhurt by women more than I've
been hurt by men.
Like some of the women, woundsI have are fucked up.

Jamy (07:01):
Yeah, yeah, in the school of you, I call this like.
This is connected to choosingyour North star, like what is
your, what is your purpose, whatis your end goal?
And so, like, if it is tocreate connection, if it is to
create intimacy, if it is to,like in dating, find a partner
or find best friends, or like inparenting paradox, to create

(07:25):
loving relationships within yourhousehold and with your kids,
the North star has to be strongenough to override that defense
mechanism.
Yes, the old stories come inand it's like it's justified.
It would be completely justified, based on your past experiences
, for you to say, nope, thisisn't the one You're out and I'm

(07:47):
on to something new.
Right, but justified doesn'tmean it's the action that's in
alignment with what you want tocreate.
And in those moments you haveto pause long enough to decide.
Is my reaction and my fearstronger than the thing that I'm
devoted to creating?
And that's what I stand in aweof with you, carrie, when I

(08:10):
watch you navigate this, becauseeven me as like a third, like
vicariously experiencing thedating world through you.
My heart is like close, closedown.
This one's not safe.
Protect yourself.
And you're like.
I want to experience.
I want to continue, whateverthis particular dynamic holds

(08:34):
for me, and there's still valuein it for me.
So I'm going to choose to open.
So is there something thathappens for you, or how did you
get to this place that yourNorth Star is stronger than your
reactive fear in the moment?
And maybe it isn't always right,like we're human, and there are

(08:54):
moments where there is thislike fuck you, I am not
available.
We still have to navigate ourway out of it if we want
connection.

Keri (09:03):
OK, there's two questions there.
I'll go.
The first one, remind me ofthem, because the first one was
the North Star.
The second one is how have Inavigated this?
Yes, so North Star for me is Ifirmly believe, wholeheartedly,
that there is a person for me inthis world.
And you know what?
I don't even believe in likethat there is one person, but
there is definitely a person forme, at least one of them, that

(09:27):
is going to and can meet me inthe places that I want to be met
.
And I want to be met on amental level, emotional level,
physical level, spiritual leveland energetic level.
And, to be fair, I'm prettycool with meeting you on the
astral level.
If we were to go there too,right, right and um.
But those are the five.
They're really frickingimportant, right?
And if you can't meet me inthose places, then you're not

(09:50):
the one for me, because there'ssomething that's going to be
missing.
And I really believe that whenthat happens, when two humans
and I say this in friendship too, like as as women to women I
think this is really importantand in an intimate relationship,
I think that a man and a womantogether in a union that are
supportive in all aspects oflife are unstoppable.

(10:11):
And I think that not only ifyou come together in two whole
people, you each create yourdreams individually and then
collectively together.
And I know for me in theexperience that I'm in even in
the experience I'm in alreadylike the grounding that happens,
the peace that happens, thesupport that happens in a really
healthy relationship isprofound it is.

Jamy (10:35):
So I'm curious do you think that one, there's one
person that can meet all ofthose things for you, Maybe,
maybe.
More specifically, what doesmeet mean to you?

Keri (10:53):
I think that no, yes, yeah , yes and no, yes, I think
there's a person who can meet uson all those levels.
I also think that we get tohave other people who also meet
us on those levels.
Yeah, and I don't think there'sone person.
I think one of the tragicthings that happens in relating
and marriage is that we expectthat the other person is going
to be our be all end all, andthey're not.
And the second you put thatpressure on somebody to be your
be all end all, you fuck therelationship.

Jamy (11:11):
Yeah, no one person can be the everything.
For me, though I think I wasrecognizing.
For me, meet means um, thatthey can be curious about what
my, my journey, my perspectiveis.
They don't have to be the same,they don't even have to agree,
but they cannot reject or judgewhat my, my place, my stance, my

(11:35):
being is in those places.

Keri (11:37):
That's a really great way to say it, and I think there's
something around like that.
There's a way to connect aroundthose spaces where somebody
rejects like right.
Rejects you for your beliefs,rejects you for your spiritual
beingness.
Like you know, for me spirit isGod.
It doesn't mean that we have tohave the same idea of God or
the same God or the same youknow like way to get to God,

(12:00):
even say that Right, becausepeople are going to have
different ways, and one of myfavorite things has been in
exploring different dating withmen is that, like I love meeting
men who I don't come from aspiritual space, right, I don't
come from this like very woo-woospace, because I've met
engineers, I've met people inoil companies, I've met people
in like the most far out places,and one of my favorite things

(12:20):
to learn is how do they connectto spirit?

Jamy (12:22):
How are they emotionally?

Keri (12:23):
How are they?
Because every single one ofthem that would have come with
me far enough has their way.
Yes, Right.
Even within one or twoconversations.
They all have their way.
It's different than mine, yeah,might not be the same, but I
don't need it to be the same.
As long as I know that theyhave their path to that Right,
and however they do that, that'sgreat.
As long as they can handlethemselves in their space and

(12:46):
know that they have arelationship with spirit, with
emotion, with their physicalbody, with their energetic, with
their mind, however that showsup for them, then we can meet
and it's actually really curious, like I love then the
conversation that comes like oh,what can I learn from you?
Because maybe your way ofconnecting can support me in

(13:07):
mind.
So I mean, I didn't know.

Jamy (13:08):
That's how we evolve and grow and learn is to take in new
perspectives, cause even theway you're talking about that
really does recognize thatspirituality or woo woo stuff is
another dogma, like it's justanother dogmatic way of
operating in the space ofconnection.
I used to think that I wantedKyle to be spiritual, like with

(13:30):
me, and I have since realizedlike I actually prefer that he's
not like, that I get to holdthat pillar in our relationship
and he respects it and he honorsit and he's curious about it
and he's open to it.
But he doesn't like he doesn'toperate that way, but it's like
it lets me actually really bekind of the Oracle in that

(13:53):
position of like utilizing thatperspective in our connection
and then taking action or, youknow, making aligned decisions
in it, and I would probably be alittle frustrated or annoyed,
even like turned off, by someonewho operated the same way I do

(14:16):
in that regard, where I used tothink I wanted a guy who you
know like was so into that.
I'm so lucky that Kyle has stuckwith me through that because I,
like I, nagged and applied somuch pressure and I'm glad and
grateful that he held his ownpillar in his you know, his the

(14:37):
way of navigating.

Keri (14:38):
I think that's a really beautiful thing to say, jb,
because there's so many women inthis world and I really want to
like, like, hold this here,because there are so many I was
in the same place with with Hughthat you know like we want to
take them with us and we want tohave them come and they're like
and and and.
The truth is that men, women,it is our job, it is the
Aquarian, we are the feminineway, and I find totally fair,
totally honest, my, my this isjust my, my experience of men in

(15:09):
my dating experience, the menthat are in that space, they're
so the ones that I haveinteracted with, the ones that I
see, the places where I see itgo really ick is they're
actually so into that they're intheir feminine, they're not in
their masculine, yeah, and sothey can't hold a masculine pole
because they're actuallymeeting you and then ends up
that the woman will end up inthe masculine and he'll be in
the feminine.
It doesn't work, yeah.

Jamy (15:30):
And I think that in order to allow that we we who are
holding the feminine um it, it.
It's uh uncomfortable if wehave unhealed wounds around like
that.
That structure, that stability,that control is what it
oftentimes like.
The distortion of it is likeyou're trying to control me or
you're trying to whatever, butto start to recognize the value

(15:51):
and the gifts in it versus therejection or the trigger around
it.
I do want to actually go intothat in a minute, but I do want
to bring you back to how do younavigate from the trigger in,
back to your North star, becausethe trigger is real, like
you're having a psychosomaticreaction to a past experience,

(16:13):
and it's real right, like it'snot easy to be in the anger, to
be in the shutdown.
How do you find your way backto?
Okay, I'm feeling this and I'mgoing to take a different action
in this moment.

Keri (16:27):
Such a good question.
Okay, I have to feel this first.
It really like it's that.
It's like I have to feel itfirst.
So in my body.
What I will do in those momentsis I'm like, okay, let me feel
what just happened, what justcame into?
Like.
For me it literally is whatjust came into my body, what
just into my field, what'sinformation that just came here.
Okay, let me sit with thisinformation.

(16:47):
What is here and why?
What?
What's in my body?
What is actually gettingtriggered?
Right, that's the first piece.

Jamy (16:53):
Is it like sensations?
Is it feelings?
Do you label it?
Is it thoughts like what doesthat look like?
Feel like?

Keri (17:04):
first when, when this happened yesterday, there's a
pause, and I did actually checkinto my body.
Do I want to open?
Do I want to stay closed?
That was the first question Iasked myself.
Do I actually want to sharethis with you right now?
Am I ready, am I willing?
Do I have words for this, or doI need to actually just sit in
my own space and be like I don'thave this space for this right
now, cause I don't know theanswer?
Right Um For me in that momentand through the last day, as

(17:28):
I've been processing this, I'vebeen able to, and I think this
becomes part of the first,becomes the feeling, but then it
comes into the mind and we canstart to look at like what am I
really triggered by?
Right?
Is it him and his actions?
Is it me and my desires?
Is it?
And then I had to go.
I woke up this morningprocessing past shit.

Jamy (17:47):
Right, right and it has nothing to do with it, you're
bringing up this last painfulthing Right, this last painful
experience Right and layered inlayered in like literally.

Keri (17:56):
I was like, oh my God, and he's come back up in my life.

Jamy (17:59):
And then that particular story comes knocking on your
door Like remember me, rememberme, remember me.

Keri (18:04):
He shows up again.

Jamy (18:05):
I'm like, oh, lordy, lordy , it's all here for me, and just
for the audience, literallylike the past trigger that this
was kind of activating, thatperson pops into you know the
field with a message orsomething right.

Keri (18:17):
So it's ironic how and it's been a year, you guys it's
been a year since this pastperson over a year, since last
January it's April January, it'sApril since last January that
we've spoken and all of a suddenhe shows back up in my life and
I'm like really that'sinteresting.
And so then we get to noticeand this is again.
We get to notice, like what isreally here?

Jamy (18:33):
Yes.
Right, because then I can lookat this and I go, well, I can
take all of this and I can, andI can throw all of this onto the
new person Right and you canthrow him out because he
activated that past thing right,like, oh nope, you're bringing
up this painful memory, so Idon't want you anywhere near me,

(18:55):
but then you're seeing him ortreating him as a character, and
not the soul and the being andthe person that he is in front
of you.

Keri (18:59):
And he's not that person.
He's not the person.
That was the person I datedlast year and he's nothing like.
I mean, it's like I don't wantto compare them in that way
because it's so much different.
And so if I were to take thatand say, okay, I'm triggered
here and then make this you,that just hurts him and me.
And then I get to and that'swhat I would have done in the
past and I would have shut downand gone like I can't cope.

(19:22):
But yesterday, what was abeautiful because is different
was and this is why Jamie and Iwere talking about this was in
the past I would have shut down,but this time I went.
Well, I can spend the next twodays being resentful, pissed off
, shut down from him and he'sgonna be like what the fuck just
happened?
I have no idea because I didn'tsay anything, right, and then I
would make.
I would make it all pissy andhe'd show up the next day in a

(19:44):
couple of days and be like whatis going on with you?
And then I'd probably be allfiery and bitchy and shut down
and be like what would have beena beautiful loving connection
with him would have been ruinedbecause of my shit that has
nothing to do with him.
Yeah.

Jamy (20:00):
Yeah, right, and so I can make a choice.
I think about how often thishappens in friendships, in
marriages and romantic romanticrelationships with our kids,
even like right, and so I thinkthis is.
I think it's important to pointout that even if you're on the
flip side like we're talkingabout the perspective of being
triggered and how to holdourselves and navigate and
communicate through it but alsowhen you're in a close

(20:21):
relationship with someone,whether it's intimate or
friendship, or your kids, toalso be able to hold yourself.
It's intimate or friendship, oryour kids to also be able to
hold yourself.
When something gets projectedonto you, like if somebody is
triggered and is like fuck you,you're, you know, like you're
gonna whatever do something thathurts me, we also on the on the
receiving end of that can holdspace for someone's process from

(20:43):
trigger back to connection.
Cause what happens is oneperson gets triggered and
projects.
Happens is one person getstriggered and projects and then
that person gets defensive andis like, oh yeah, I'm going to
talk to you, then I don't wantto talk to you and there's just
no connection.
It's like both parts of theequation have to stay at the
table.

Keri (20:59):
And this is it.
Like you know, I think I thinkthis is literally like if, if we
can look at relating and thisis where I've seen dating and
the world, and like so manypeople, so many people in
marriage, and everything it's tocome to the table is to be
willing to say this is where Iam, this is actually not about
you, this is where I am.
Yeah, own your shit and go.

(21:20):
You know what?
This is what I want, this iswhat I need.
Can, what?
Where are you at with this?
Like, how does this make youfeel that I and this was the
conversation yesterday, it waslike this is how I feel how does
it make you feel to actuallyhear me say that?
Yeah yeah, right, and it wasnever like you have to go change
, you have to go do this, youhave to.
No, no, no, it was just likeI'm gonna own my feelings.
I wanna hear what you feel.

(21:42):
How do we feel about any ofthis?

Jamy (21:44):
Yeah, Does this particular equation work, but if your
needs do not match his capacityto meet them, or vice versa, it
doesn't mean that therelationship is, like no longer
valuable.
It's like change the equation,like what are our agreements?
Are our agreements?
Because this is the?

(22:04):
This is like the next step ofthat is right now monogamy and
compulsory monogamy.
Right Like this idea that youpick someone and you guys do
life together forever ignoresthe fact that human beings are
continually changing.
So, like when I committed toKyle 20 years ago, I am a

(22:26):
completely different person.
I'm a completely differentperson than I was a year ago,
let alone 20 years ago, and soif there's some expectation that
I could tell him 20 years agothat I will be this forever for
you is unrealistic.
If that is maintained, if theperception of that is maintained

(22:50):
, someone is pretending, someoneis keeping themselves in a
little box in order toaccommodate the agreement,
versus creating agreements.
In a relationship where youboth acknowledge we are ever
evolving and changing beings,can we choose to navigate our
changes alongside each other andhave respect and honor each

(23:14):
other's process, even if itmakes us uncomfortable.

Keri (23:17):
Yes, and you know what, jamie, to me it brings this to
where I was in the marriage,because we couldn't.
I was changing and he didn'twant to see the changes.
He didn't want to honor where Iwas at.
He didn't want to honor theplaces that I wanted to go.
He didn't want to see me in thehard parts of my life where I
had turned to different thingsfood, weed, all the different

(23:41):
things that I turned to to avoidbecause I was in so much pain,
because I was so full of anxiety, because I was filling so many
pain, because I was so full ofanxiety because I was feeling so
many voids in my life.
Right, and I'm saying thisbecause if you're listening to
this, you might be in a marriageor relationship that looks like
that, right, and so when welook at that and I can say it
was because we couldn't come tothe table and actually reignite

(24:03):
seeing each other, and I alwayssay like I want to see you with
new eyes and I want to chooseyou every day, yeah, right, like
every day, I want to see you aswho you show up to be today,
because who you show up to betoday, and especially now, like
there was so much evolutionhappening between all of us in
humanity right, as friends, aslovers, as whatever.
And I want to see you today whoyou are and I want to accept

(24:23):
you today who you are and I wantto accept you today who you are
and I want to love you todaywho are, even if that makes me
uncomfortable, is the thing.

Jamy (24:27):
Yes, like, this is the point, right, like, because it's
ironic right that, like, kyleand I were in similar portals,
as you and your ex you know, andthe outcomes of those things
were the difference in thecapacity to stay in the
conversation Right, thedifference in the capacity to
stay in the conversation and toaccept the changes that were

(24:48):
happening versus what it feelslike is like an anchor right,
like digging in your heels andlike no, this is not what I
agreed to whenever, however manyyears ago, so I don't want it I
.
What are we today and how do wecreate the bridge and the
connection and the commitment tomaking whatever we both are now

(25:12):
work?

Keri (25:14):
Yeah, and I think it's interesting because you say that
, like you, you couldn't see me.
And I always say to him, likeyou, couldn't see me with new
eyes because, like the thingsthat he saw were true, you guys,
like I, did have some stuffthat was really fucking hard for
him to deal with with mental,with an undiagnosed mental
health stuff, like that wouldhave been really fricking hard
for him.
There's no doubt, and I have alot of compassion and as I come

(25:34):
out of them like as we'veseparated out of the marriage
and I've seen how I've shiftedin new relationships I'm like
man, that man, like he.
Really he had to work to beokay and be in relationship with
me with the way that my moodsand the swings I had and the way
I would have switched it allover him and dumped on him Right
.

Jamy (25:53):
There's no blaming Like he was not faultless in the
dynamic.

Keri (25:57):
None of us are, but when I started to shift and change, he
couldn't see me with new eyes.
He still holds me in that.
He still sees me as this.

Jamy (26:04):
Projecting the old versions of you as the old
versions of you is the oldversion of me Right.

Keri (26:08):
And that will not work.
And it doesn't work when wehold ourselves in that either
Cause.
Then I held myself there.
Yeah, I limited myself by likein the duality right.
It was a duality because Icould see these new parts of me.
I wanted to play these newparts of me but I couldn't
because I had a partner whowouldn't play them with me.

Jamy (26:25):
Right, so when you ask me here.

Keri (26:27):
It was like what's my North star?
How do I keep coming back to myNorth star?
Is my North star is I want thisrelationship, this partnership
that is so full of love.
And so it means that when Ilook at these places where I'm
like well in the past, likeliterally the question I'll go
is like in the past, andsometimes I'll even say this to
the person in the past I wouldhave done this right, this is
what I would have done, I wouldhave shut down and I would have
totally pushed you away.

(26:47):
I don't know how I'm going todo this differently.
Right now, it feels reallyvulnerable and really scary to
do it different and it mightcome out wrong and I might hurt
you as I do this and I don'tmean to and I don't know what's
going on but I'm going to trythis a new way.
And he's sitting at the table.

Jamy (27:04):
And he sits at the table with me.
Yeah, that's the thing I mean.
Similar, like I have literallytold Kyle like I want to say,
really mean things to you rightnow and he'll go okay, go ahead,
you need to.
I just want to offend you.
I feel the desire to like pokeat things that are completely

(27:29):
unrelated.
Right, like, why do I want totalk about the way you chew your
food when we're talking aboutlike it's weird Our defense
mechanisms of what we do to pushpeople away and then to
recognize them and then tovocalize them and tell the other
person and then to have theother person be like all right,

(27:50):
you gotta do what you gotta do,I'll hold space for that.
Um, or he could say I can't andyou're gonna need to deal with
that, right, but like, we'recommunicating, we're sharing
what's happening and we're notabandoning each other that's it.
That's it yeah that's it andit's the same for 20 years.
There was like fine, then if wecan't figure this out, maybe we

(28:11):
just don't work like.
I have said that to Kyle somany times.

Keri (28:17):
I've been at that door so many damn times and then we find
out we got to each other.
Before we got married he waslike I'm not, he knew, I wasn't
even convinced.
Until the fucking day of themarriage I was like, okay, now
I'm really here, I'm in.
He's like he knew he's likecarrie, you could go any.
I'm like, yep, yeah, yeah,until the day until the day we
got married.
And then from that, like therewas all these times where he's

(28:39):
like carrie and he would standthere like a rock.

Jamy (28:41):
Right, yeah, do it, go ahead you yeah, and that the
beauty Like this is the beautyand the shadow of the rock,
right, it's like it stays whenyou want to push, but then it
also can't adjust when things dochange, you know.

Keri (28:55):
So it's like you've got the double edged sword of that
stability that rock, right,right, and I think and I think
you know the other beautifulthing is that no-transcript

(29:28):
differently and are being calledinto a different way of being.
So even the partner on theother side, kyle, this other
person, wherever you know,whoever you're with these
partners, these men, especiallythese men, like women, we've
been playing this for a fewyears now.
A lot of us, right, we've beenplaying into this energy, we've
been leading the space.
But a lot of the guys, guys andI and I and I bring this in

(29:51):
here Cause I think I think it'sreally relevant in the fact that
a lot of women have a lot ofhatred to men and they have a
lot of like the patriarchy socksand the dah, dah, dah, dah, dah
, and they want to blame the menand this and that and the other
.
But what I want to say is, likethey've been just as hurt, right
, they like, if we look at Kyle,we look at the Hugh, we look at
the you know all the peoplewe're talking about they've been
just as hurt and in able toexpress their emotions because

(30:12):
we have castrated them.
We've said we want to hear them, but then we don't give them
the space.
Then if they tell us we're like, you're weak.

Jamy (30:22):
And oftentimes we're talking early, it's justified
right, like there is justifiedaction because like well, he did
do this, or they, or men, orwhatever, because even we're
talking about men and women.
But I think that women, we, wehate our own inner masculine and
and men are triggered by theirown inner feminine.
So it's like all these thingsthat we I mean because we're
both like cis, hetero women, sowe relate in this way of

(30:47):
dynamics with men, but this isan inner relationship as well,
and like an energetic dynamic ofthe, the opposing polarities of
energy, and we really are in asociety that that values um
mental structure and the, the,the yin or the feminine, is more

(31:10):
like chaos, is more movement,is more the unknown, and that's
terrifying for-.

Keri (31:17):
It's terrifying for men.

Jamy (31:18):
It's terrifying for women, it's terrifying for all of us
to like enter into this.

Keri (31:22):
Right.
But when we look at this too,like when we look at this, and
we go, okay, well, I want toshift and change, but then I
expect this other human on theother side, man or woman, right
To meet me in this new place.
It's like they have.
They have their own stuff tomove through.
They have their own like.
I've never tried this.
I've never had a space to becomfortable to share my emotions
.
You've always cut me out, orsome woman has already shut me

(31:44):
out and some woman has castratedme, or some woman has told me
that I'm an asshole, like thefirst woman in their lives and
how did she show up for them?

Jamy (31:51):
And I mean all of that.
But I want to bring this backto what we had said, like in the
beginning of our conversation.
In this kind of hetero menwomen dynamic, there are a lot
of women who are complainingabout men not showing up, men
being aimless, men beingwhatever, and the role that we
play in that.

(32:12):
So the clarity that you came toabout it wasn't about the
request he was making, what wasit about?
What like?
What was the frustration or thepush away right?
Like it wasn't the action ofthe request, it was the energy
under the push away right.
Like it wasn't the the actionof the request, it was the
energy under the request thatwas was triggering for you.

(32:33):
So we can talk a little bitabout that, because then we can
kind of expand into that bit.

Keri (32:37):
Yeah, it's interesting because when we were talking
about this, basically where Iwas saying that would push me
away in this experience is thatif he's not in alignment with
his highest truth and he doesn'ttake action On his highest
timeline to actually create,walk into and step into his

(32:57):
purpose work, it doesn't matterwho this person is Not creating
something intentional, right.
And he's not doing his work,then I will not feel him be
solid in himself and I willwobble.

Jamy (33:07):
Yeah, right.

Keri (33:09):
And you said the same thing about Kyle, like Kyle has
done this.

Jamy (33:11):
Yeah, we had the same conversation this last weekend
was like it cause it's, it'sinteresting.
You know what I know.
I mean, like we can, we cantalk about all kinds of
different things, um, and it'snever about the action, right,
like I mean.
Even so, like in marriage, inmonogamy in particular, the one
thing that's kind of standard inmonogamy is there are no, um,

(33:33):
external partners or connectionssexually right.
And it's interesting because Ican think about this and the
idea of Kyle connecting withsomebody else isn't about the
connection, it's about him inintegrity with himself in that
connection.
So this is that like separationon an extreme level, right,

(33:54):
like in monogamy.
Talking about sex with otherpeople is kind of an extreme
push of that.
But it could be him choosing tosit on his phone, it could be
him choosing to watch football,it could be him choosing to,
whatever go fishing, whatever.
It's not the action, it's.
Has he checked in with theintegrity, with his highest
purpose in that action?
If it's mindless, if it'sdistraction, if it's avoidance,

(34:20):
right, like I feel it in my body.
But if he has checked in and heis intentionally choosing that,
love it.
I love it for you, like you areon your path Right.

Keri (34:31):
I will say, like this was actually part of the biggest
part of the destruction of mymarriage was knowing that he was
on a path doing the thing tobecause he was good at it.
He's a massage therapist andhe's amazing, like truly gifted
in healing people in theirbodies, and they're fixing
people's bodies.
And yet I've known for a longtime this is not his.

(34:51):
His like his highest timeline.
He wants to do other work inthe world and we've talked about
it for many years and likeliterally to the point where if
you look back at his university,he was like, oh, you did that
because he's really intoenvironment, like he wants to
build environmentally friendlyhouses.
He was an environmentalengineer, environmental engineer
.
I was like, oh, you actuallypicked that because this is
actually what you wanted, butthat was all you knew then is

(35:13):
your way in.
And so for years I wouldencourage him to be like go go
do other things, go find the wayto go build this, go do this
thing, and he would play in it,but he would never commit to
actually stepping onto that pathin that timeline and so because
of that, he would be in adisconnect with himself and then
, in that disconnect fromhimself, he was unhappy.
And so this is where theproblem becomes, because then

(35:36):
they're unhappy and I don't wantto be with a man who's not in
his integrity, with who he is,and doing his purpose work in
the world because then they'renot living their, their highest
truth and their highestalignment.
And I am a person who is of myhighest truth and highest
alignment, and I take thefucking action.

Jamy (35:54):
Yeah, right, but here's the difference that I see you
doing now is um, we can'tcontrol other people's actions.
So we're like, because you weremarried with him, you pushed.
Like you you need to get intoalignment.
Versus you're like in your coreand I'm not engaging if you're
not in your alignment.
It's almost like access or noaccess versus I need you to do

(36:15):
this so that I feel safe.
You know, it's like I'm onlyinterested in engaging and
moving forward in spaces wherethere's alignment.
So it's like you're takingresponsibility for your value
system, like your bare minimums.
Because I mean, like we weretalking earlier, I was pushing
Kyle for so long because I hadan idea of what his alignment

(36:38):
looked like.
Right, all I created wasresistance, something for him to
fight against.
Versus like I'm going to focuson my alignment and I'm going to
give you space to focus onyours, and we choose, like I
mean our paths kind of go likethis right, like when we're when
our, our, our aligned paths arecloser together sometimes than

(37:00):
they are at others.
You know, we still choose tostay at the table.
We're just maybe further apart.
Right, like we don't go.
Oh well, now you're not mywhatever.
So we're separating Like he ismy family, he's my person, and
how it's so weird to me how likeI love you and I had kids with
you and we created a life, andnow you're not meeting these
needs.
So get out right.
It's so weird to me how we dothat, like it's a very

(37:23):
monogamous mindset of like allor none at versus, like you were
talking about, even with thisperson, like if they can't give
you what you need in thisparticular regard.
Change the equation.
What is the relationship then?
What are the agreements and?

Keri (37:40):
how are we Right, which isn't where we are, but like it
is.
That is the truth.
And I also want to say here, Ithink, one of the things that I
noticed and I noticed and Ireally pay attention to, because
when you start to like, reallystart to like again.
You guys, our first episode wasabout taking
self-responsibility.
So this is again.
This is self-responsibility.
Right, come back to it.
When I can come back intomyself and take the

(38:00):
responsibility, a lot of thetimes that I want to go and
change somebody or I want to gotell them what to do, it's
because I'm avoiding myself.
Exactly A hundred percent.

Jamy (38:07):
It's like, I'm like.

Keri (38:16):
I don't want to go do my work, so I'm just going to make
you my project, right?

Jamy (38:20):
Yeah, it's literally in.
A lot of fucking women do it.
A lot of women.

Keri (38:23):
I'm going to go make you my project, but really the
project should be yourself,Right?
And I think really importantpiece is because we do we
outsource that so that we canavoid ourselves.

Jamy (38:35):
And this brings us back to what we were saying is we've
been projecting on men.
Men are shit, men aren'tshowing up, men are whatever.
Because we aren't holding thatstand for ourselves, like.
So the thing that we're sayingis that there is, there is a
biological drive in heterosexualmen.
They want the woman.
There is a if women really werein integrity with um.

(39:05):
There I mean because for meit's it is a physical sensation
like there is a repulsion tosomeone who is out of alignment
with their themselves.
But we oftentimes override thatwell.
Well, because I'm supposed to,or I want to be chosen, or I
don't want to be alone, or Idon't want to be abandoned,
versus what turns us on andgetting in integrity with the

(39:27):
expectation that a man who is inintegrity with himself, who is
on purpose and doing that work,is who has access, you know.

Keri (39:39):
And, by the way, I want to say here too they don't have to
figure it out, no one has tohave it figured out and I think
that's a lot of pressure to puton any human being and yourself
right.
The point is do it messy, butjust make sure that, even if
it's like a small step, are youdoing it Are you choosing to be
reflective, aware, you know,like choosing that path, and it

(40:00):
isn't.

Jamy (40:00):
It is, it's messy as fuck.
I mean like mine and yours ismessy as fuck, right, like we
maybe have a little morepractice, but we have more
practice having it be a mess,yeah, right, but it is.
It's like I think that I I mean, I have two daughters, so you

(40:20):
know this like awareness thatthe feminine chooses, like we do
get to create an energetic kindof standard of of what, what we
want, and a lot of women areoverriding that.
But then we're also mad that menaren't stepping up because we
never made them we didn't likecreate any motivation or

(40:46):
inspiration in our own standardswith self, and so and it's
interesting because you haveboys right so like we both kind
of come at this from verydifferent dynamics.
But I think so many women don'twant to be abandoned, they want
to be chosen, and so it's likea guy gives attention, it's like
he's chosen me, I'm going to bewhatever, versus like he's not

(41:06):
meeting my bare minimum, so I'mnot available for that.

Keri (41:10):
I was going to say you bring this to the words that I
was literally in my mind, or theneediness and the difference
between when I was married andwhere I am now huge difference,
Like, if I can say, the biggestdifferences I actually uncovered
when I left the marriage.
What kept me there for so longwas two beliefs I need to have a
man or I'm going to die.
Literally was like I will diewithout a man in my life.

(41:32):
And if I don't have a man in mylife, I what was the other one?
It was like I'm not, you guys,I've gotten rid of them.

Jamy (41:43):
I'm not successful, I'm not worthy, type of a thing
without a man and there is abiological.
You know for some of us thatthat like longing, but like
historically, women couldn't geta credit card without a male
co-signer as recently as like 75or something like that.

Keri (42:04):
You couldn't even get a bank account.
You couldn't even get a bankaccount.

Jamy (42:07):
And then like 14 years later, when a first woman could
get a bank loan like without amale co-signer.

Keri (42:14):
Before that they had to have women open banks, because
women couldn't actually evenjust get a bank account without
a man.

Jamy (42:19):
So finally, finally, I mean like my aunt was talking-
about that she couldn't buy acar because she didn't have a
husband.
So like this, this kind of thisbelief is not just personal,
like it exists in the collectiveof this needing a man.

Keri (42:34):
Um to exist, to survive.

Jamy (42:35):
Yeah to to be worthy to be important when be important.

Keri (42:39):
When I had that, when I had that under, when I had those
underlying beliefs.
And now that we've said it, youguys, ladies, check in like do
you have that belief?
Because that belief kept me ina marriage that was not healthy
for a really long time?

Jamy (42:51):
Yeah, and it's hard to acknowledge, like when I'm like
a badass, empowered, leading,I'm doing woman things like it
is painful to acknowledge and Ireally do have this undercurrent
of you guys, it was only twoyears ago.

Keri (43:04):
If you know me long enough , you know I've been talking
online about stuff like this fora long ass time and I had those
underlying beliefs rightbecause the shadow of it is fuck
him, I don't need him.

Jamy (43:13):
right like, if we can't acknowledge that, that that idea
is there and we're resisting it, then we become hateful and
like push away, and resentfuland pissed off and we push away.

Keri (43:22):
And so where I sit now is that I don't need right Like
it's a choice.
It's a choice for me to show upin right.
I choose to show up with you andI want to work through this
with you and I want to createthis with you.
And how do we create thistogether from a place that I am
whole and you are whole and wecome together and I have dreams

(43:44):
and you have dreams, and whatare the dreams you want to
create together?
Whereas even in a marriage youguys, this is something that
I've I've considered for a longtime in marriages that, like, I
didn't even know what my dreamswere versus his dreams, right,
this is very like you become 17years together.
You become like entwined thatyou're like who's me and who do
I like?
To the point where, when you'reliving with somebody for so
long, you're like do I even wantto eat at this time of day,

(44:05):
Right?
I don't even know, because I'mon someone else's kids and
you're on autopilot and you'relike the kids have to eat here,
and then I'm like what is likewhen?
When we separated and I hadweeks on my own, I was like what
would be my natural rhythm if Ijust ate.

Jamy (44:19):
What would be fun to watch you like decondition and figure
out who you are.

Keri (44:23):
And it's totally like there are a lot of changes that
have happened.

Jamy (44:26):
Yes, oh, my gosh yeah.

Keri (44:29):
Oh, I don't have to do that thing anymore.
Okay, well then I'm going to doit this way, cause this one
feels way better.
And I say this because I thinka lot, of, a lot of marriages
like I, I invite in, like wherecan you create that spaciousness
so that you can find thesethings that you actually realize
you don't quote unquote needeach other.
That's codependency, where youdon't need each other but you

(44:50):
choose each other.

Jamy (44:51):
Transactional.
I mean this is true infriendships too.
You know, like I had a friendrecently who was kind of
triggered because I didn't needher anymore and I'm like I've
never needed you.
I want you, Like I choose you,I value your input, but it's
never because, like thistransactional, I need you so I
keep you around, and even thatconversation was liberating for

(45:13):
her to be like oh, I don't haveto like serve a purpose or or
fill a need to be loved and andaccepted.

Keri (45:21):
And this is like, this is our state, Like this is where,
right, and like so manyrelationships are built on
condition If you do this, I'lldo this.
And, like my, my marriage wasthat if you do this, I'll do
this for you.
If you do this, then I'll dothis for you.
And and if you if you don't dothat, then I'm not going to do
this, I'm going to pull thisaway.
Yeah, right, it's unhealthy,like, choose to show up, because

(45:42):
I choose.
Regardless of what you're goingto give me back.
I want to do this for you.
Yeah, right, and choose that.
I don't need you to fill me.
I feel myself.
Yeah, and what Jamie has beensaying to me as she's watched me
go through the dating is, asI've walked into this experience
and it really is a beautiful,loving experience that I'm
experiencing right now.

(46:02):
As I've walked in, she's beenlike Carrie I love how open your
eyes are to like, yep, that'shere and I'm aware and I can
navigate.
What do I want?
How is this okay with me, is itnot?
Am I okay to go this way?
Am I okay to go this way?
Am I okay to move that way?
Does it work for me to be inhere and where are?
And like?
This is the other thing that Inoticed now too, and I and I God
, I hear it in people dating andit makes me want to like vomit

(46:26):
If the amount of stupid shitthat people care about like the
other day someone was talkingabout if she doesn't have good
grammar, if he doesn't have goodgrammar, I'm like, oh my God,
that poor man and all the menbehind him, right, right, like
seriously, that's going to beyour deciding factor whether he
has good grammar or not.
I feel really bad for them.
Right, you are eliminated.
That's for that person.

Jamy (46:45):
Like that's what you're basing your relationships on.
Like there's so much more to aperson, right, there's so no,
and that's, and like that'stotally fine, right.

Keri (47:07):
To each other Relationships If that's each
their own, each their own right.
I say this because, for me,what has been so beautiful to
experience in this relationshipis that it doesn't matter so
many of the things that Ithought would matter and the
more that I've come throughdating and I've gone, because I
actually call data like dataingright.

Jamy (47:22):
We just taken data.
We're like, oh, do I like that?
No, you can engage inrelationships that way.
That is so healthy.

Keri (47:27):
Right, and it's like saying, okay, does this matter
to me?
Actually, no, I thought itwould, but what really matters
is a safe container to be ableto express, explore and be fully
seen, and this is the firsttime I have been able to be in a
container where I am fullyasked to be fully like, which is
why I step in and I can go.
You know what?
I'm not going to shut downbecause I know you actually want

(47:49):
this because you can actuallytake this on the other side and
go and own it and take your partof this and go.
Okay, let me just sit with thatand see how I feel about that,
exactly Right, and I want to seeall of him and I'm like don't
hide any piece of it becauseit's in the hiding, and like I
spent a fucking entire marriagehiding, hiding, hiding, hiding
because he didn't want to seestuff, right, and I'm like, if I
can be in a place where I'mseen fully, where I am, the all

(48:12):
of it, like the other stuff, whocares?

Jamy (48:19):
No, exactly, and I and I like just to acknowledge that it
is uncomfortable Like this ispart of the challenge is
allowing yourself to feel thediscomfort of someone's big
emotions, feelings like it ishard work, but this is why it's
so important to be in connectionto yourself and to be able to
stop and not just react back.

(48:40):
It just creates this perpetualwar versus like all right, this
is really like.
This is uncomfortable for mewhen you are this angry because
it brings up my past stuffaround, whatever, but when two
people can do that intentionally, it's, it's beautiful, it's so
beautiful.
It's how we change the world,you know, and we do it in every

(49:03):
relationship.
I mean even you and me, and ourrelationship with our kids and
our relationships with ourfriends.
This isn't just marriage, thisis where it shows up the most.
But like relationships are nothere to make us happy or to make
us complete.
They're to show us ourselves,you know, to help us evolve, to
teach us how to be better andmore ourselves and more in

(49:27):
alignment.
And when we start looking atrelationships that way, I mean
like gene keys that's what theVenus sequence is.
It's not like relationships arenot here to make you happy,
they're here to help you grow.
They're here to help you evolveand to learn, and when you use
them that way, it's so healthyand it's so beautiful.
Really, even in breaking up,even in like choosing that

(49:49):
you're not on the same path, itstill can be beautiful.

Keri (49:52):
Mm-hmm.

Jamy (49:55):
I'm really excited that you're in this place because I
will tell, I mean like Carrieknows I've been, I've been the
breaks because I, you know, Imean like I did know her two
years ago.
I mean more than that, right.
But to to watch her go from theCarrie who was bending over

(50:16):
backwards and abandoning herselfto accommodate relationship,
it's been beautiful to watch herget confronted.
I mean, Carrie, like to getconfronted with these spaces
where you could easily eithershut him out or collapse into
okay, whatever you want, so thatyou don't be able to say that
doesn't work for me, but whatdoes you know?

(50:38):
Like to be very honest aboutwhere you're at, with an open
heart and complete surrender towhatever his response might be
to that is absolutely beautiful.
And I can feel like, okay, Idon't need to protect her all
the time.
She's holy moly, oh my god,that big sister.

(51:03):
I'm the oldest of four girls,so like when I see that I'm like
I have got to protect herlittle precious heart, not fuck
with her to the point where youguys, like I would literally say
this, to the point where I hadno idea why.

Keri (51:16):
I don't think she knew why , but the week after he moved
out she was on a plane here.
I like, I mean literally.
She's like I'm buying a ticket,I'm coming, and I don't know
what I would have done withoutyou that week.
I don't and like the amount ofthings that she saw that she
could point out for me, like areyou fucking kidding me?
This is what's been going on.
And also, by the way, met theguy that we were talking about

(51:36):
and was like Carrie, he's just anormal dude.
He is just, he is not a miracleand I was like the sun shined
out of his ass, which, by theway, doesn't First time you
experienced, not you Right.

Jamy (51:53):
I mean anyone who could handle emotions you know, like
experienced in your marriage wasgoing to be like a miracle.
That's true.
I remember he's moving out, I'mbuying a ticket.
I had no idea what the fuck Iwas doing, but I was going to be
there.

Keri (52:09):
Oh my God, I don't know what I've done without you.

Jamy (52:13):
We even moved weird like contraptions that were set up in
your living room the rats, therats and that fucking water
feature thing Like why is thisin your living?

Keri (52:24):
room.
Oh my God, you guys, it waswild.
It was a wild week and honestlyand I say this because she
really has she's been the sisterthat has shown up and protected
me and loved on me and seen methrough the points where I fully
had abandoned myself on me andseen me through the points where
I fully had abandoned myselfand where I didn't know how to

(52:47):
even hear myself, to know what Iwanted, to be able to think
that I could have what I wantedand that I was worthy of what I
wanted, or that it was capable,or there was someone who would
actually meet me.
And the amount of times thenthat I would go underneath my
own boundaries again and againand again, and she'd be like
Carrie, oh okay, try it again.
Fuck, abandoned.
Who is really abandoning?
Oh fuck, I was.
It's a journey.

Jamy (53:09):
It's been a journey.

Keri (53:10):
It's been a journey and so to get to this place where I
can walk through open-eyed andmake choices and choose, because
it feels really fucking good tohave my heart open, even though
it's scary, even though I don'tknow, even though there's an
unknown, even Like it doesn'twork and it's okay to get hurt.

Jamy (53:41):
Like, if you're learning from it, it's okay.

Keri (53:43):
It's not the end of the world.
It's not, we're just scared tofeel the uncomfortable, but it's
, yeah, it's actually quitebeautiful, it's really beautiful
, and I think when you reallystart to understand heartbreak,
it's a, it's a, it's a catalyst.

Jamy (53:58):
Yeah.

Keri (54:00):
For me it's a, it's a, it's a catalyst.
For me it's like if I were towalk into every relationship
afraid of having my heart broken.
Well, I actually, when I Scottis the guy I was dating last
year and when I dated him, whatI really took away from, one of
the biggest things I took awayfrom that relationship, was the
ability to say I don't know ifwe're going to be together.
I don't know if there is aforever, and I am prepared to be

(54:21):
here and present with you andlove you, even though tomorrow
it might end.
And I think what I really cameto the conclusion of and I don't
think a lot of people get thisis that at some point every
relationship ends, whether it'sthrough death or whether it's
through it ends.
Or one person ends it or theother, or you mutually end it.
Every relationship as it isends.
That does not mean it ends.
He was still in my life.

(54:41):
It's just different.
It takes a different form.
Love takes a different form.
And so when you can do that andyou can go, okay, well, no
matter what that's going tohappen, then the next question
becomes and this is where I havelearned and how I've really
like, if we actually come downto how I keep opening my heart
is the next thing becomes well,can I hold myself through the
pain of the heartache?

(55:02):
And what I have learned is thateverything that has happened in
the past has been some of themost horrendous pieces of
suffering that I've ever livedthrough Having to go through
divorcing a husband and a mom,and what happened with Scott,
who ended up getting into bedwith my best friend, all within
months of each other, right.
So not only did I lose therelationship with Scott, who
ended up getting into bed withmy best friend, all within
months of each other, right.

(55:24):
So not only did I lose therelationship with Scott, I also
lost my one of my best friendsat the time, right After going
through that within about five,six months of each other, I was
still have gratitude and lovefor all of them, because I don't
feel the need to do that.
Like the bullshit that all ofthem still have, right, I still
go for all of them.
And to be able to do that andgo.

(55:44):
You know what?
I made it through that and Iheld myself through that and I'm
here and I'm alive and I'm abetter person for all of it.
Then if I can do that, thenwhatever else the world's going
to bring me and let's be honest,you guys, I'm a 51 shock line
it's all going to come in ashocking way.
So the second, I surrendered tothat.
I'm like it's going to beshocking, something's going to
happen, I'm going to have todeal with it.
Why would I stop myself fromopening myself to the fact that

(56:05):
somewhere in this world there isa love that is so deep for me,
that is so healing, and what I'mgoing through right now?

Jamy (56:17):
is so Right and I'm willing to show up here.
You don't have to take thegifts with you and leave the
rest, because I do want to pointout she loves these people.
She's not friends with thesepeople.
She also honors herself in theboundaries, and it's like you
are not in alignment with takingcare of our friendship in the
same way that I am and I lovethat you are.
You know, like you don't hate,you don't.

(56:38):
You are like the purest love inthis, like recognition of the
gifts and self-loving boundaries, and then you don't have access
to all this amazingness anymore.
That's you know, like I thinkthat what a beautiful, what a
beautiful lesson to havewitnessed, but also to have

(57:00):
learned from.
So thank you it gets to be bothand people it gets to be both
and it's true.
Yeah, and I'm glad that I don'thave to maintain that, because
you will talk at some pointabout the bullshit that people
do and the you know, like theaftermath of of decisions that

(57:20):
come out of disintegrity andavoidance of self, like all of
these things can be avoided ifpeople can stop and actually see
their own motivations, theirown drives, what's happening.
But because they don't want tobe that honest with themselves,
it comes out in these wonkysideways, actions that cause

(57:44):
ripples that are, you know,obviously offer healing.
But there are easier ways to doit too.

Keri (57:50):
There are easier ways to do it and I think, actually, I
think we probably should end ithere in the fact that it's there
are easier ways to do things.
And this is what I learned,right, and this is actually you
guys like, I wrote the newwealth four years ago and in
that experience, the new wealth,that book Magnetize Abundance,
hold your Wealth and Leave aLegacy I saw this utopian
society.
I'll say it this way right whenwe can have this infinite bliss,

(58:11):
abundance, joy, peace and love.
And what I knew when I wrotethat book was the only thing
that's stopping me is thesuffering that I'm creating for
myself, and so the journey hasbeen.
How do I let go of the suffering?
And really what we're talkingabout?
The biggest piece of mysuffering was my marriage, and
so I knew I had to eitherresolve it, which is where Jamie
and Kyle have ended up in thisbeautiful.
There's a so much moreresolution and so much more love

(58:32):
, because we were very similarplaces and um, and for me it was
to end it and, and then, fromthere, look at where else I was
suffering, right In my healthand all these other places, and
and I remember you, like JamieJamie will confirm this Like it
wasn't even months ago.
I was still saying my mentalhealth was still so messy that I

(58:54):
was like is there ever going tobe a day that I'm not going to
be anxious?
Is there ever going to be a daythat they don't have these
looping thoughts?
Is there ever going to be a daythat I don't create my own
suffering?
I've been trapped in thishellish mind of myself and I
literally just said to her I wasgardening on Sunday and I spent
three hours in the garden andit was empty and I was like, oh
my God, this is what it's liketo have freedom and like to have

(59:19):
freedom, and I say this becausewe get to choose this, and we
have to choose it over and overand over, and I'm going to cry.

Jamy (59:22):
It is not just something that, for most people, snaps and
happens.
It is intentional choice thatyou create.

Keri (59:27):
Every day to choose, that I don't want the suffering, and
instead I'm going to remainopen-hearted to what it is that
I want to create, which is loveFor me.
It is the North star ofeverything is love love for
myself, love for my children,love for the people that are in
my life and if it does not bringme peace, this is my biggest
North star right now, and I'm amanifestor too, so this is
obviously my.
I am supposed to be in peace,but I think this isn't just

(59:49):
because I'm a manifestor.
I think it's because we'rehuman and our nervous systems
feel really happy when they'repeaceful.

Jamy (59:54):
Is does this bring me peace?
Does this bring me love?
Does this bring me joy?
If it's a yes, then I'm a fuckyes to being there.
If it's not, then I'm not.
And and it's not peace in themoment.
Right, like, like what peace?
This distinction, that likepeace in the moment is not
long-term peace, so like, evenin this recent conflict, peace,
a surface level peace would havebeen not engaging right, but

(01:00:18):
like deep peace with what isdoes require fighting for some
things, does require doing someuncomfortable things, and it's
important to make a distinction.

Keri (01:00:28):
And even in that and I will say this because from
somebody who could not findpeace and has lived in anxiety
for so long, warding off panicattacks for years Even in that
conversation there was peace inmy body.

Jamy (01:00:41):
Exactly, it's an inner state.
It is not a thing outside ofyou.

Keri (01:00:45):
There's peace in my body and that is how I know that when
I choose to show up here in adifferent way, it's because
there's peace and it's worth itto me to try something new that
feels uncomfortable, because Ichoose peace and love, and
that's the North Star.
And if I am in peace and love,I say yes, and it's worth trying
new things and changing the waythat we do things to actually

(01:01:06):
align to that North Star and say, yes, I deserve this.
Yes, this is what I get to have.
And as we are moving this and Isay this because as we were
moving, it is a differentorientation my orientation was I
get mess, mess, mess, mess,mess and I was like creating a
fuck ton of mess.
There are times that I think tomy friends like, oh, my God, I
don't know how you stayed withme through so much mess, right,
but now it's like I love theconversations I have because

(01:01:27):
it's not messy, like it's messy,like life is messy, but it's
like it's peaceful and there'sthere's, there's responsibility
and there's like, yeah, thisthing happened and this is
what's going on, but it's notlike, oh my God, my world is
falling apart.

Jamy (01:01:45):
It's like there is the what is and how you interpret it
is.
Is your inner state right?
You're no longer creatingdisruption with what is, you're
allowing it to feed you and toserve you and navigate and learn
and whatever that is, and it'sthe same thing happening outside
.
It's just you're interpretingit different and that's
beautiful.

Keri (01:02:02):
So yeah, Should we call it here, yeah?

Jamy (01:02:08):
I think with that we will end this probably longer than we
intended episode.
We'll be back with more on thenext week.
And we'll be back with more onthe next week.
If you enjoyed this show, letus know.
We're all about authenticconnections, so come chat with
us on social media or email.
Links are listed in the shownotes.

Keri (01:02:31):
And please make sure to subscribe to the podcast on your
favorite platform and share themagic on your socials.