July 23, 2024 • 32 mins
What if embracing the worst parts of life could actually propel you to greatness? This episode of Redefining Normal uncovers the transformative power of "embracing the suck." From heartbreaks and financial crises to business failures, we unpack how facing life's inevitable challenges head-on can serve as the ultimate catalyst for growth. We explore the idea that discomfort isn't something to shy away from but a vital component of the human experience that shapes us into more resilient individuals. By shifting our mindset and rewriting our stories around these tough moments, we can use them as stepping stones toward personal evolution.
Ever wondered how you can find peace amidst chaos? We delve into practices like mirror work and self-reflection, allowing you to reframe difficult events as indicators of progress rather than setbacks. Discover the importance of staying present and trusting the journey, even when the road ahead is foggy. By learning to embrace life's shocks with acceptance and surrender, you can lead a more balanced and less turbulent life. We also touch on the sacrifices and choices that come with pursuing long-term goals, and the crucial difference between avoidance and genuine disinterest.
Transform your mental health one small change at a time. This episode challenges you to recognize and alter the negative stories you tell yourself, highlighting the importance of persistence and faith in this ongoing journey. We'll share personal experiences to illustrate how micro moments of positive change can gradually shift your mindset, leading to a life filled with magic, love, and abundance. As we wrap up, we encourage you to continue this conversation with us on social media, celebrating both your small victories and the transformative power of choosing how to interface with your thoughts. Tune in and let's redefine what it means to embrace the suck together.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Keri (00:01):
Welcome to Redefining Normal.
Join us as we questionconventional thinking and talk
about the courage it takes tocreate and live a deliciously
vibrant life.
Jamy (00:10):
This podcast is for people who know there's a better way
to do life and love how we showup in connection to others our
kids, our partners, our businessand, beyond that, our
relationship with money,vitality and, more than anything
, ourselves.
Keri (00:26):
We're two shamelessly unapologetic moms choosing to
experience the fullness of life.
Jamy (00:32):
And we're collapsing the conditioning that says you can't
live a life of pleasure, peaceand abundance in the midst of
the mundane of life,responsibilities, work and kids.
Keri (00:43):
Thank you for listening in .
Let's do this.
Hello, and today, on RedefiningNormal, we are talking about
embracing the suck.
I'm super excited to have thisconversation with you today.
Miss Jamie, can you start usoff with talking about?
What do we mean when we'retalking about embracing the suck
(01:03):
?
Jamy (01:05):
What are we talking about?
We are talking about thediscomfort of the in-between
right, like the parts of lifethat don't just go the way we
want it to, that cause tensionor frustration or whatever
(01:25):
negative story we have around anexperience that we might be
having, and the thing about itis that is part of the human
experience.
It just it is a what is, and sowhen we can learn to be with it
, navigate it intentionally andunderstand what it is, be with
(01:45):
it, navigate it intentionallyand understand what it is, it
really gives us an upper hand infiguring out how to make the
most of it and how to movethrough it.
Keri (01:53):
I love that.
So for me, when you say that,like some examples that come up,
are things like we were sayingjust before getting on the show
heartbreak, right.
We've been talking, we talkedlast, we talked, I think, last
week, a little bit about openingheart and heartbreak, right.
So sometimes we don't want towalk into a relationship because
(02:15):
we're afraid that it will end.
Well then you'll stop yourselffrom actually living your life
because you're afraid of theending.
And so even in the endings ofand I wouldn't even say endings,
because it's just a shift ofthe relationship, right, even if
it's an energetic connection,like all of my you know a lot of
the men that I've been with inmy life, like they're still like
(02:37):
, if I've loved them, I stilllove them at some capacity,
right.
And so it's that embracing thesuck.
Well, when things shift, thatkind of sucks sometimes.
So how can we be in that spaceof the suck of that?
Or how can we be in the spacewhen, let's be real, if you've
been in business or in life,money can go up and down, right.
And in those down moments whenshit's hard and I know I've been
(02:58):
here, you've been here whenwe're like, ah, how is this
going to happen?
How am I going to hit my bills?
How am I going to get thethings done that I want to get
done?
It can really feel sucky.
Jamy (03:07):
Yeah.
Keri (03:07):
Yeah.
And so how can we embrace thosemoments?
Because in those moments and Ieven look at this like I don't
know somebody who has hit seven,eight figure businesses and
beyond, or has that amount ofmoney, without having moments
where they've had nothing.
Jamy (03:22):
No, because the suck is where we learn, like you have to
encounter challenges in orderto grow and evolve.
Like that's that's it, that'sthat's the way that we
understand, because ifeverything is flowing
wonderfully, we have no feedback, we have nothing that needs to
change.
And to me, that's what thishuman experience is all about.
(03:44):
Is understanding, learning,expanding, like if you just stay
the same the whole time, what,what is, what is this about, you
know?
And so we have to encounterchallenges in order to gain new
data, to to like, oh, this thingdoesn't happen the way I wanted
it to, so what do I do now inorder to get me closer to the
(04:07):
thing I want?
And I think there's thisawareness that there's an
underlying and I really don'tknow actually, like if it's in
our nature, like in our nervoussystem, if we've been
conditioned because I do feellike there are cultures that do
this well but like I feel likethere's this underlying, like
just move away from anythinguncomfortable, you know, and
(04:30):
that isn't in service to ourhighest and best.
And so, even just being awarethat that's there, that like,
there's this unconscious like,just move away from and I know
that that's innate like to ournervous system a protection
mechanism.
Know that that's innate, liketo our nervous system a
protection mechanism.
I also think culturally there'sjust just like avoid, avoid the
uncomfortable, versus like thisconversation around change the
(04:56):
story about what theuncomfortable is in order to
utilize it.
Keri (05:01):
It's interesting because when you say that, the thing
that's coming to me is thefeeling of the fear of failure.
Right, and so it's like so manypeople don't go into their
dreams, don't try, like, don'tgo open.
How many people have not dated,and however long, because
they're afraid their heart'sgoing to break?
How many people haven't startedtheir business because they're
afraid that's not going to work?
Or, if they put themselves outthere, someone's going to come
(05:22):
and tell them they're shitty orwhatever the thing is.
By the way, if you put that ahundred times right, like I'm
going to tell you, if you're amessenger in the world and
you're here with a voice andyou're putting yourself out
there, somebody's going to tellyou they don't like it some
point in time.
So get over that shit, right.
And so how many people don't dothe thing because they're
afraid of the sucky part of thething?
Yeah, the sucky part's going tohappen.
So what you have to like, do,and I think this is really like,
(05:43):
probably actually before that,I want to say the other piece
that we were I was talking aboutprior to this is even things
like.
Another example is impatience.
Right, it's like that middlepart where things get messy to
me, like this is, can be real.
It can feel real sucky, right,cause like things are messy, you
don't know where you are.
It's like the void place, rightwhen you're, like I know I want
(06:03):
this thing out here.
I'm sitting here, I want it now.
It's not here yet, right, andin that place it's really
interesting Cause remember last,a couple of years ago, I really
started to pay attention tothis and as somebody who's dealt
with anxiety my whole life, Icould really start to feel into
in that place.
So if you, if you like, feelthis in your body if you guys
are listening I mean I knowyou're listening when you're
(06:28):
listening that there's thisplace where, when it's out in
front of you and you don't haveit yet, it is a tension, and so
it can feel like anxiety, right,it can feel like anxiety in our
bodies and that can feel reallyfricking, uncomfortable in your
body and so it's like how canwe, in that place of impatience
of I want that thing now, butit's not here yet, right, that
(06:48):
can feel real sucky.
So how can we learn in theseplaces where, whether it's in
our relationships anduncomfortable conversations that
we have to have, that we get tohave Right, but knowing that
when we have those uncomfortableconversations, thank goodness
because on the other side of itthere's like another depth of
intimacy and love and connection, um, in all of these things
(07:09):
we've talked about.
And so how can we move fromthere, like, why is it so
important to actually embracethis?
Jamy (07:16):
Yeah, well, and I'm I'm learning right now about the law
of three that there is alwaysum, like a, a desiring force, um
, a negating force and aneutralizing force, and so I
don't know a lot about it yet,but the concept is that if there
is something I want that thereis, then innately and naturally
(07:38):
the opposite and equal force ofno to that.
And so I'm learning to reframeand utilizing this awareness
that when I'm feeling thattension, it's because I'm
holding the opposite point of it, and so I actually have started
to interpret it asencouragement, because it's like
whoa feel how challenging howthis feels right now, because
(08:02):
I'm holding the opposite andequal desire.
And so utilizing this likereflective, like we talked about
in some of our first episodesof like, you know, like mirror
work and, and you know,self-reflection is like what is
this showing me?
I mean like the what is isright, like whatever event is
(08:23):
happening is happening and weget to tell and create the story
around it in order toexperience the way we want to.
So it used to be like, oh, thisthing is happening and it's
negating what I want, but nowI'm starting to recognize it is
showing me how close I am to thething I want, right Like.
(08:45):
It's the same exact externalevent.
I'm interpreting it different.
And so there's this underlyingkind of universal law of
awareness of, like, polarity andenergy.
But it's also important becauseif we cannot embrace the suck,
if we cannot recognize that itis a part of life, we collapse,
(09:07):
we give up, we numb out, wenever achieve and actualize the
thing that our soul is here todo, right Like we are not here
to be numb and just robot ourway through life.
But that's what happens if you,if you uh encounter what we're
calling the suck and don't knowhow to be with it and how to
(09:31):
navigate through it.
Keri (09:33):
Hmm, yeah, I love that and I think ultimately, when we
avoid it, we're avoiding ourdreams.
Yeah, you know, like we have tolearn how to have this and,
like I said as somebody who has,it's really interesting to
allow our bodies to speak to usand actually let this pay
(09:53):
attention, like because when wecan actually embrace that I know
, even in the conversation wehad last week, like I had so
much peace in the uncomfortableright, like my body can find
peace.
Like when you start to actuallyembrace what this is and just
be like it's part of life and tonotice like, hey, this is just
what's happening and how do Iget to handle my body, how do I
get to be in my body, how do Iget to create safety in my own
(10:15):
body?
Because we have we come back tothat first episode awareness.
Right, we bring that awarenessin.
Then we know like it's just apart of it.
Jamy (10:27):
Yeah.
Keri (10:27):
You know, like, and I say this, and I say this because a
lot of the people who arelistening, I know, are people
who want to have a message outin the world, or do have a
message out in the world and,having been somebody who's been
doing this for 20, 15, 18 yearsa lot, a long time right, there
are times where you're going toput yourself out there.
That's uncomfortable, yeah,like, whether it's in a
relationship, whether it'sonline, whether it's going in
(10:50):
and hitting bigger goals thatyou have or expanding your
financial reach, to be like Iwant to go and do this holiday
which expands me outside ofwhat's comfortable, it's going
to feel uncomfortable in yourbody.
And so, once you can actuallystart to differentiate how that
feels in your body, to be inthese moments, because you have
awareness, you can go ah, yeah,that's this thing, this is me in
(11:10):
this, in this voidy,uncomfortable, sucky moment, can
I be here, can I be in it?
And this is why it's soimportant, because then you can
start to recognize oh, I'm okay,yeah, I'm okay here, yeah,
right, and then we can bring umthat presence Like this is how
do we be in it?
We bring this presence.
I think presence comes back toall of this and you can come
(11:33):
back to presence, and I thinkthis is also the piece where,
like, even if I was talkingabout before this disconnect
between where it's forward andwhere we are now, yeah, I can
put it out there into the worldand say this is what I want.
But in order to not feel suckyabout it, to not feel impatient
about it, to not feel anxiousabout it, it's out there Now.
Come back into this moment, bepresent, be present in your body
(11:53):
, find peace in your body, live,take the next step.
You don't have to worry aboutthe hundred steps ahead of you,
yeah, because if you start toworry about the hundred steps
ahead of you, you'll get anxiousand you won't do it.
It's like come back to rightnow.
Jamy (12:04):
What is real right now?
Yeah, no-transcript, and likerelax into the discomfort
(12:46):
because you know what it holds,you know the gift in it.
But that takes practice, but itis there.
Keri (12:53):
It is on that spectrum of experiencing challenges,
discomfort, like in general,whatever it is that the suck
means for you, you know the 51shock line as a messenger, and
we have learned Jamie and I havelearned over the last few years
(13:16):
as we watched my life unfold.
The shock line means thatthings come to me in shocking
ways and ultimately, I've had tolearn this has been part of my
journey is that when thingsshock me, then and this, by the
way, when we talk about humandesign stuff we all exist, like
we all have all of this.
It's just that, for me, this ishow I learned this way and how
I deliver a message this way.
And when I started to learnthis, I was like, oh, if I don't
(13:41):
surrender to the fact thatthings are going to shock the
hell out of me, then I'm goingto be unbalanced and totally in
a turbulent life, creatingabsolute drama and mess, which
is where my life had been peoplefor a really long time.
And I went yeah, that's notwhat I want.
But it doesn't also mean thatjust shock now ends.
Shock is now just like huh.
Now I say things to her and I'mlike huh, it's funny.
(14:02):
Like oftentimes I will now likethere will be a shocking thing
that happens and I can look atit and go, huh, you won't
believe, can't wait to see whatthis one holds.
And it's true, right, like Iwill often come to you laughing
(14:22):
Like, ah, this one's funny,right.
And so it's the way that Iembrace it is like I could look
at it and go, oh my God, thisshocking thing happened again
and my whole life is going tofall apart.
Or I can look at it and go, huh, Okay, well, that's an
interesting thing that I'm goingto get to deal with now.
Right, and how am I going todeal with that and what's this
thing going to hold for me?
And truly, I think that all ofthese things, anytime we have a
shock, anytime we have aheartbreak, anytime we have
(14:44):
things that don't necessarily gothe way we do, it catalyzes us
into our better, right.
And so now, sometimes, when I'min those moments that I'm like,
oh, my God, I don't know, likeit's like layering on top of me,
and I have days that peoplelike it layers on top of me, and
I'm like holy cow, I think whatI just dealt with in one day is
what somebody would deal within like a year.
Right, and no joke, like it canhappen that way.
(15:05):
And I look at it and I go, huh.
Now I'm like, oh, going tohappen tomorrow, if I can
actually embody this and embracethis and be in this, right,
because that's what it is, it'slike I don't avoid it because
it's going to bring up feelings.
Right, you're going to feelstuff and even if you can't
mentally say I feel angry, Ifeel whatever in your body,
(15:28):
you're going to have feelings.
And if you can learn and thisis, I think this is a really
important thing around how we bein the suck, and this is
something I've really had topractice If I can learn not to
put a story to it and not let mymind get all wrapped up in it
and keep myself trapped in thelooping thoughts of, oh, this is
so terrible, and he this andshe that, and I can't figure
this out, and blah, blah, blah,blah, blah and I get all mental
(15:49):
about it, then then I could staytrapped there, and I have for a
lifetime.
I've stayed trapped there formonths.
That's the reality right now,and Jamie's watched me do it and
now I go huh, okay, well, thathappened.
I feel this, I'm going to gofeel it, and it might take me a
half an hour, it might take metwo hours, it might take me an
entire day.
Usually this day not reallyanymore.
It's usually only like a couplehours for me now.
Jamy (16:10):
And I want to say to Carrie that that, like we have a
story and the people around youwill have a story I mean, like
I can feel I've even done it inyour dating you know, like that
thing he's doing could probablyit could mean this, you know,
and so you, you, you also havepeople around you confirming the
potential scary story, right,like, but it's still all story.
(16:35):
It's all stories.
Then you don't know, unless youhave a conversation or you
reach the end, if it's not withanother perfect person, if it's
an event, you don't know what itmeans.
Keri (16:47):
So notice the story, paying attention to that story
in your mind and then if you canactually just say, okay, story,
I now hear you, I've nowhonored and acknowledged that
there's a story that's happeningin my mind, and kind of just
tell that voice, thank you, andthen come into your body and
just feel it, like if you canactually feel it and touch it
(17:07):
and move that energy.
Magic sits on the other side ofit, because really what we are
doing is releasing trappedenergy into our body, which,
again, what I'm saying is it'sthe catalyst, right?
So then you've removed thisenergy that's trapped in your
body, your field, your mental,emotional, spiritual, energetic
field, and once that's gone,it's gone Like it's gone people.
And then on the other side ofit, generally speaking, what I
(17:27):
find is there is magic thathappens, but if we stay stuck in
it which I have for sure donein the past for months on end,
then I just stay stuck in it formonths and no magic happens in
that.
Jamy (17:38):
Yeah, I think, too, it's important to recognize it,
doesn't?
It's not always, it doesn'talways come by way of shock.
It can be like, um, yeah, itcan be like an underwhelming
(17:58):
sort of energy.
But notice when, yeah, you'relike trying to avoid discomfort
in life, like, uh, I got to dothis thing, uh, this is going to
suck, whatever, like whateveror something happens that sucked
Like, notice where you'reputting a negative spin on the
experiences that are happeningaround you because you are the
author, you literally get todetermine, and I so I have my
(18:21):
brother-in-law who does notunderstand we do not speak the
same language and he used toalways say, jamie, you do not
live in touch with reality andI'm like, I mean, like it's real
for me.
I'm really experiencing thesethings and if I get to define my
reality, why would I define onethat sucks?
I get to define my reality, whywould I define one that sucks?
(18:44):
Why would I define one that'sdisempowered and challenging and
you know, like negative?
I mean like you have that, likehave that reality if that's
what works for you.
But this is mine, I'm going tocreate it the way I want to, and
all of you listening, like yourreality is the way you
interpret the things that arehappening around you.
(19:05):
Absolutely, that's it.
So stop Like there is noreality that you have to
accommodate, except for the whatis the actions that are
happening.
But how you interpret them isentirely in your power and your
authority Totally.
Keri (19:20):
There's also something you said, too, that I'd like to
expand on.
You said, like, with embracingthe suck, like I was even
thinking about times when I hearpeople say to me again you guys
, I've been doing this for along time.
And when I hear people say tome, I don't want to go and do
the email, I don't want to goand put myself out there, I
don't want to blah, blah, blah,blah, blah, that's going to suck
to have to do that and we'reonly supposed to do the things
that are really lightest up.
And I want to say bullshit,because sometimes and I'm going
(19:43):
to say this as somebody who alsosays, yes, do the things that
light you up and live a life ofpleasure.
And sometimes that's going tomean you got to stay up and you
have a launch to hit, and it's10 o'clock at night and
everybody, or it's eight o'clockat night and your family's
going out to have a party andyou're like, fuck, I have a goal
and I have a launch to hit.
And so you know what, on thisday today, I'm going to sit here
and I'm going to write theemails and I'm going to get them
out, and it's going to suckbecause I'm going to miss this
(20:04):
thing, but so be it.
I have missed many things frommy family for this purpose,
right, and sometimes that sucks.
And sometimes I have to look at, be on stage and be in a really
cool place, but the suck comesbecause I missed something else
that I wanted to be at Right,and there's always a choice in
(20:26):
this and sometimes we have toembrace that part of it and you
have to like, choose, choose.
Do you want the end goal, yeah?
Jamy (20:37):
Or are you going to sit here and say to yourself, well,
that thing is a little bit hardso I'm not going to figure it
out and I'm not going to do it,I'm going to give up.
Well, this is where we have tobe really honest with ourselves.
Right is like am I an avoidanceor is this really not for me?
And then also focusing onimmediate pleasure versus the
the long-term pleasure, feelgood, whatever it is that you
(20:57):
are dedicated to creating,because we, our minds, can
convince us all day long that,oh, this isn't for me.
And if you're not being reallybrutally honest with yourself,
you'll believe that shit right.
You have to be able to alsocall yourself out and be like
that's avoidance.
You are avoiding a little hardwork because it's uncomfortable
(21:18):
in this moment, but you knowit's what you need in order to
achieve the bigger thing youwant, and you're never going to
get that bigger thing If you'regoing to avoid all these little
moments of discomfort.
It's the way it is.
Keri (21:31):
There's no way it is the way it is, and sometimes, peeps,
it's really funny, cause I wasthinking people are like I'm
going to go into the onlinespace and it's going to be
easier, and I get to get out ofjob and I'm like, holy moly,
sometimes the job would beeasier.
People depends on where you'reat Right.
Don't don't actually think thatjust because you're coming into
the space, that all of a sudden, like angels and fairies, are
going to hand you everything ona silver platter, like you
(21:51):
actually have to do the work.
It is a lot of work.
Jamy (21:54):
It's different work and a different boss, but you choose,
you know, like, how you want tonavigate that.
But yeah, there's work involved, like you got to work in order
to achieve and even that likework right, like I love my work.
If I had a million dollars inthe bank right now, I would
(22:15):
still be doing exactly what I'mdoing.
It would probably be easier, itwould probably be a little more
fun, it would, you know, likethe dynamics might be a little
different but I would still bedoing it.
So, even this idea of work,like notice if that has a
negative connotation in yourmind or or a positive one,
because again, that's your storyyou get to define that right,
(22:36):
like I love my work, even whenit is staying up at 10 o'clock
and writing freaking emails orsomething you know, like it's
just a part of the puzzle, partof the job, how to do it.
Keri (22:48):
Okay.
So let's, let's wrap this Cause.
We're trying to keep these, youguys are trying to keep them.
We're trying to keep them shortand sweet.
So, if we are in the suck andand I was saying before, like I
wanted to bring into theconversation, like sometimes
again, somebody who's dealt withmental health like sometimes it
could drag on for months, but,as I've said, I've learned like
(23:09):
I can move through this prettyquickly now, right, so how do we
embrace the suck and not let itcontrol us and like we can
still be in it but also, I wouldeven say, just live life while
we're in the midst of the suck?
How do we also not stay stuckin the in the suck?
That was a lot of challengingwords how do we not stay stuck
(23:32):
in the suck while we alsoembrace the suck?
Jamy (23:36):
Yeah, I think that.
I mean this is what we weretalking about earlier is this,
this act of acceptance?
And acceptance is not settling,it is recognizing what is and
not trying to change it.
You know, and it's like when wecome into this place of
acceptance like this is what is,then we have an honest way of
(23:56):
navigating it, whereas whenwe're avoiding it and also, just
to point out, avoidance doesnot get rid of things when we
avoid, that thing stays thereand it gets bigger and bigger
and bigger until you have todeal with it.
So, even in the grand scheme ofthings, addressing it, looking
towards it, being in acceptance,whatever you know, like
(24:18):
embracing it helps you overcome,move through, change, whatever,
it is faster and it almostfeels paradoxical, right, like
I'm going to accept it in orderto change it, but that doesn't
like.
Those two things feel likeopposites.
So we, we have to accept what islike, we have to be able to be
honest and we also have torecognize that there is no, no
(24:41):
way around it.
I mean, like it is a part oflife, it is part of this human
experience in a nervous system,body, and the struggle comes
when we're trying to get awayfrom it versus like this is
where I'm at in the processright now, and I actually don't
need to resist it, I can allowit to show me what's going on.
And in that acceptance, in thatlike not trying to push against
(25:04):
, it is actually what allows usto move out of it.
It feels so paradoxical, it'slike no, that doesn't make sense
to the mind, because it isn't amental thing, it is an
embodiment thing, and so, like Ithink that watching your
stories too, because it's reallyeasy to be like, oh, my life
sucks, this is just where I'm at.
That's a story too, right, likejust I continually ask what
(25:26):
story am I telling right now?
That this is how I'mexperiencing, interpreting this
situation.
Keri (25:33):
So good.
Um, I have two things to addfrom what you said.
Everything you said is awesomeand one of the things is I was
watching.
Someone sent me a video theother day, I reeled the other
day and it was.
I just loved the simplicity ofit.
It's like once you bringawareness to the problem or to a
event that's been happeningthat feels like, or like a block
(25:53):
let's call it a block in yoursystem, right, the awareness can
be enough to let it go, to nothave it be a problem anymore.
Like, oh yeah, now I get it.
Now either.
It's a choice, it becomes achoice, right.
So you have the awareness andyou're like oh, this thing is
here.
I can choose to stay stuck in itand loop on it and like this is
(26:14):
literally what I'd have to haveto say in my mind.
You guys, like I had to retrainmy mind.
I can choose to hear thesethoughts and let them loop all
day long, every day, and I canremember asking Jamie, you guys,
at some point I can ask manyfriends at some point I'm like
how do you make it end?
How do I make this loopingthing end?
In my mind they're like stop it, carrie.
And I'm like the amount oftimes I want to spit at people
who said stop it, carrie, yeah.
Jamy (26:36):
But I can't happens.
It's like yeah, it'suncomfortable and it is hard,
yeah Right.
Keri (26:40):
Eventually, it is that you just stop Like, you just start
to be like redirecting yourthoughts into other things, and
it might feel uncomfortable atfirst, it might feel like you've
been lying to yourself at first.
Yeah Right, but still redirectthem, still just pay attention
and you can redirect and make anew choice and in those moments,
make a new choice.
Do I want to stay here or do Iwant to?
What would be the better thingfor me?
Is it to go for a walk?
Is it to eat this healthy food?
Is it to go and do the thingthat I've been avoiding?
(27:03):
Because once you go, do thething you're avoiding, it's gone
right.
Jamy (27:06):
Yes.
Keri (27:07):
And the other thing I wanted to add here is one of my
favorite like things to say ispay attention or pay with pain,
right, because I loved how yousaid it like it just keeps
building, building, building.
So, whether it's like, if youdon't pay attention and there's
this little niggle in your body,then you don't pay attention,
(27:27):
then all of a sudden it's a bigniggle and it's a big problem.
And then all of a sudden you'rethe doctor, and then there's
bills to pay, and then there'schiro, there's all the things,
right, if you don't payattention to your money, stuff,
and God, we've all done this,one didn't pay the bill, and
then all of a sudden there'sfees to pay because you didn't
pay the bill, and then there'sthe next thing, and then there's
the next thing, and all of asudden $100 bill becomes a $500
bill.
Pay attention or pay with pain,and so if you're not paying
attention to the things, therewill be a painful consequence,
(27:51):
usually, right, and it just getsbigger.
And so, or like partner, yourspouse, your friend, whatever
your, your boss, your, whereverit is, and you just hold it in
and you people please, andyou're like, oh, it's all going
to be fine, it's just going towork itself out.
I'll just be a little mouseover here in a corner.
No, it just gets bigger andbigger and bigger and you get
more resentful and eventuallyyou get divorced.
(28:11):
Yeah Right.
Jamy (28:13):
And that pain is expensive , right, yeah, I mean, like it's
true, yeah.
Keri (28:21):
And it's not easy.
Jamy (28:22):
I think that this idea of like you just change it sounds
like it's easy.
It is one of the hardest thingsto do to recognize that you are
looping in your own mentalstory and choose to change it
Like it's really uncomfortable.
But I challenge you to try it,to notice what comes up.
Like you said, you may feellike you're lying to yourself
(28:44):
because the whole world has toldyou that's not reality.
You don't just get to makethings up A hundred percent.
You do.
You do get to do that.
It is uncomfortable and on theother side, it is liberating.
It is so liberating.
Keri (29:02):
I will say.
I will say, just sitting herein this moment and honoring what
you've just said, like it ismicro moments and it was micro
moments for the last years thatI could see these moments.
But honestly, everybody, it'staken me years Like I'm not
going to sit here and pretend tosay to you that, like overnight
, my mind changed and I changedmental health issues that were
like debilitating me for years.
It's taken me years of work todo this, but what I can
(29:22):
officially say now and truly sayis that the video that I was
playing in my mind, whilst Ihave created amazing success in
my life and had so many abundant, wonderful things happen to me,
I also had these horrid mentalhealth problems that kept me
miserable and trapped into amarriage that was really
unhealthy and unhappy.
And I now look at the movie ofmy life and it's fucking magical
(29:51):
.
Every day something magicalhappens and love is here and
abundance is here and, like I,literally, I literally feel like
I'm not on the same timeline.
I can't even think some ofthose thoughts anymore.
And Jamie and I have beenhaving conversations recently
and, like Jamie, I can rememberthat like that would have
happened in the past, but it'snot in my like, I can't even
bring it into my mind anymore.
Yeah, and and I'm not going tosay this to you Like it happened
, like that Cause it didn't, butit was persistence with the
(30:12):
knowing of like you know what,there's other people in the
world who are not in the sameproblems that I am, who don't
have the same mental healthissues that I do, who aren't
looping in these things, thatdon't have the same inner
experience that I was having.
So I'm like, if it can happenfor them, it can happen for me.
And I just kept having faith.
And in those little micromoments where you might lie to
yourself and say to yourself Idon't really believe this,
(30:35):
eventually you'll start tobelieve it and eventually the
world will show you a mirror.
In the mirror work that you'relike, oh, yes, and it might only
last for a day, that time, yeah, right, but then you celebrate
that day and then the next timeit's like a whole week of like
these magical miracles and yourmind is in a better place.
Yes, celebrate those moments,and maybe only for right.
Now it's three minutes, right,but it's these micro moments
(30:59):
that you keep paying attentionto that you go.
Yes, if I can have it here, Ican have it for three minutes, I
can have it for five minutes, Ican have it for a day, I can
have it for a week and I'veliterally been I don't know two
weeks now without feeling likeI'm going to have a panic attack
or anxiety.
Jamy (31:12):
Maybe even three now, no, maybe two, but like there's an
awareness that it's there, butyou get to choose how you
interface with it, right Likeit's empowering.
Keri (31:27):
It's a really empowering experience and so, but it starts
with these micro moments and itstarts with making new choices.
That you're going to start topay attention to what's
happening or continue to paywith pain, I love it.
Anything else you want to say,or do we get to wrap that here?
Jamy (31:41):
No, I think we can wrap that because we have lots of
conversations to have.
There's more to say, but we'llsay them in other conversations.
Keri (31:46):
All right, well, thanks for listening, guys.
Jamy (31:50):
If you enjoyed this show, let us know.
We're all about authenticconnections, so come chat with
us on social media or email.
Links are listed in the shownotes.
Keri (31:59):
And please make sure to subscribe to the podcast on your
favorite platform and share themagic on your socials.
Welcome to Redefining Normal.
Join us as we questionconventional thinking and talk
about the courage it takes tocreate and live a deliciously
vibrant life.
Jamy (00:10):
This podcast is for people who know there's a better way
to do life and love how we showup in connection to others our
kids, our partners, our businessand, beyond that, our
relationship with money,vitality and, more than anything
, ourselves.
Keri (00:26):
We're two shamelessly unapologetic moms choosing to
experience the fullness of life.
Jamy (00:32):
And we're collapsing the conditioning that says you can't
live a life of pleasure, peaceand abundance in the midst of
the mundane of life,responsibilities, work and kids.
Keri (00:43):
Thank you for listening in .
Let's do this.
Hello, and today, on RedefiningNormal, we are talking about
embracing the suck.
I'm super excited to have thisconversation with you today.
Miss Jamie, can you start usoff with talking about?
What do we mean when we'retalking about embracing the suck
(01:03):
?
Jamy (01:05):
What are we talking about?
We are talking about thediscomfort of the in-between
right, like the parts of lifethat don't just go the way we
want it to, that cause tensionor frustration or whatever
(01:25):
negative story we have around anexperience that we might be
having, and the thing about itis that is part of the human
experience.
It just it is a what is, and sowhen we can learn to be with it
, navigate it intentionally andunderstand what it is, be with
(01:45):
it, navigate it intentionallyand understand what it is, it
really gives us an upper hand infiguring out how to make the
most of it and how to movethrough it.
Keri (01:53):
I love that.
So for me, when you say that,like some examples that come up,
are things like we were sayingjust before getting on the show
heartbreak, right.
We've been talking, we talkedlast, we talked, I think, last
week, a little bit about openingheart and heartbreak, right.
So sometimes we don't want towalk into a relationship because
(02:15):
we're afraid that it will end.
Well then you'll stop yourselffrom actually living your life
because you're afraid of theending.
And so even in the endings ofand I wouldn't even say endings,
because it's just a shift ofthe relationship, right, even if
it's an energetic connection,like all of my you know a lot of
the men that I've been with inmy life, like they're still like
(02:37):
, if I've loved them, I stilllove them at some capacity,
right.
And so it's that embracing thesuck.
Well, when things shift, thatkind of sucks sometimes.
So how can we be in that spaceof the suck of that?
Or how can we be in the spacewhen, let's be real, if you've
been in business or in life,money can go up and down, right.
And in those down moments whenshit's hard and I know I've been
(02:58):
here, you've been here whenwe're like, ah, how is this
going to happen?
How am I going to hit my bills?
How am I going to get thethings done that I want to get
done?
It can really feel sucky.
Jamy (03:07):
Yeah.
Keri (03:07):
Yeah.
And so how can we embrace thosemoments?
Because in those moments and Ieven look at this like I don't
know somebody who has hit seven,eight figure businesses and
beyond, or has that amount ofmoney, without having moments
where they've had nothing.
Jamy (03:22):
No, because the suck is where we learn, like you have to
encounter challenges in orderto grow and evolve.
Like that's that's it, that'sthat's the way that we
understand, because ifeverything is flowing
wonderfully, we have no feedback, we have nothing that needs to
change.
And to me, that's what thishuman experience is all about.
(03:44):
Is understanding, learning,expanding, like if you just stay
the same the whole time, what,what is, what is this about, you
know?
And so we have to encounterchallenges in order to gain new
data, to to like, oh, this thingdoesn't happen the way I wanted
it to, so what do I do now inorder to get me closer to the
(04:07):
thing I want?
And I think there's thisawareness that there's an
underlying and I really don'tknow actually, like if it's in
our nature, like in our nervoussystem, if we've been
conditioned because I do feellike there are cultures that do
this well but like I feel likethere's this underlying, like
just move away from anythinguncomfortable, you know, and
(04:30):
that isn't in service to ourhighest and best.
And so, even just being awarethat that's there, that like,
there's this unconscious like,just move away from and I know
that that's innate like to ournervous system a protection
mechanism.
Know that that's innate, liketo our nervous system a
protection mechanism.
I also think culturally there'sjust just like avoid, avoid the
uncomfortable, versus like thisconversation around change the
(04:56):
story about what theuncomfortable is in order to
utilize it.
Keri (05:01):
It's interesting because when you say that, the thing
that's coming to me is thefeeling of the fear of failure.
Right, and so it's like so manypeople don't go into their
dreams, don't try, like, don'tgo open.
How many people have not dated,and however long, because
they're afraid their heart'sgoing to break?
How many people haven't startedtheir business because they're
afraid that's not going to work?
Or, if they put themselves outthere, someone's going to come
(05:22):
and tell them they're shitty orwhatever the thing is.
By the way, if you put that ahundred times right, like I'm
going to tell you, if you're amessenger in the world and
you're here with a voice andyou're putting yourself out
there, somebody's going to tellyou they don't like it some
point in time.
So get over that shit, right.
And so how many people don't dothe thing because they're
afraid of the sucky part of thething?
Yeah, the sucky part's going tohappen.
So what you have to like, do,and I think this is really like,
(05:43):
probably actually before that,I want to say the other piece
that we were I was talking aboutprior to this is even things
like.
Another example is impatience.
Right, it's like that middlepart where things get messy to
me, like this is, can be real.
It can feel real sucky, right,cause like things are messy, you
don't know where you are.
It's like the void place, rightwhen you're, like I know I want
(06:03):
this thing out here.
I'm sitting here, I want it now.
It's not here yet, right, andin that place it's really
interesting Cause remember last,a couple of years ago, I really
started to pay attention tothis and as somebody who's dealt
with anxiety my whole life, Icould really start to feel into
in that place.
So if you, if you like, feelthis in your body if you guys
are listening I mean I knowyou're listening when you're
(06:28):
listening that there's thisplace where, when it's out in
front of you and you don't haveit yet, it is a tension, and so
it can feel like anxiety, right,it can feel like anxiety in our
bodies and that can feel reallyfricking, uncomfortable in your
body and so it's like how canwe, in that place of impatience
of I want that thing now, butit's not here yet, right, that
(06:48):
can feel real sucky.
So how can we learn in theseplaces where, whether it's in
our relationships anduncomfortable conversations that
we have to have, that we get tohave Right, but knowing that
when we have those uncomfortableconversations, thank goodness
because on the other side of itthere's like another depth of
intimacy and love and connection, um, in all of these things
(07:09):
we've talked about.
And so how can we move fromthere, like, why is it so
important to actually embracethis?
Jamy (07:16):
Yeah, well, and I'm I'm learning right now about the law
of three that there is alwaysum, like a, a desiring force, um
, a negating force and aneutralizing force, and so I
don't know a lot about it yet,but the concept is that if there
is something I want that thereis, then innately and naturally
(07:38):
the opposite and equal force ofno to that.
And so I'm learning to reframeand utilizing this awareness
that when I'm feeling thattension, it's because I'm
holding the opposite point of it, and so I actually have started
to interpret it asencouragement, because it's like
whoa feel how challenging howthis feels right now, because
(08:02):
I'm holding the opposite andequal desire.
And so utilizing this likereflective, like we talked about
in some of our first episodesof like, you know, like mirror
work and, and you know,self-reflection is like what is
this showing me?
I mean like the what is isright, like whatever event is
(08:23):
happening is happening and weget to tell and create the story
around it in order toexperience the way we want to.
So it used to be like, oh, thisthing is happening and it's
negating what I want, but nowI'm starting to recognize it is
showing me how close I am to thething I want, right Like.
(08:45):
It's the same exact externalevent.
I'm interpreting it different.
And so there's this underlyingkind of universal law of
awareness of, like, polarity andenergy.
But it's also important becauseif we cannot embrace the suck,
if we cannot recognize that itis a part of life, we collapse,
(09:07):
we give up, we numb out, wenever achieve and actualize the
thing that our soul is here todo, right Like we are not here
to be numb and just robot ourway through life.
But that's what happens if you,if you uh encounter what we're
calling the suck and don't knowhow to be with it and how to
(09:31):
navigate through it.
Keri (09:33):
Hmm, yeah, I love that and I think ultimately, when we
avoid it, we're avoiding ourdreams.
Yeah, you know, like we have tolearn how to have this and,
like I said as somebody who has,it's really interesting to
allow our bodies to speak to usand actually let this pay
(09:53):
attention, like because when wecan actually embrace that I know
, even in the conversation wehad last week, like I had so
much peace in the uncomfortableright, like my body can find
peace.
Like when you start to actuallyembrace what this is and just
be like it's part of life and tonotice like, hey, this is just
what's happening and how do Iget to handle my body, how do I
get to be in my body, how do Iget to create safety in my own
(10:15):
body?
Because we have we come back tothat first episode awareness.
Right, we bring that awarenessin.
Then we know like it's just apart of it.
Jamy (10:27):
Yeah.
Keri (10:27):
You know, like, and I say this, and I say this because a
lot of the people who arelistening, I know, are people
who want to have a message outin the world, or do have a
message out in the world and,having been somebody who's been
doing this for 20, 15, 18 yearsa lot, a long time right, there
are times where you're going toput yourself out there.
That's uncomfortable, yeah,like, whether it's in a
relationship, whether it'sonline, whether it's going in
(10:50):
and hitting bigger goals thatyou have or expanding your
financial reach, to be like Iwant to go and do this holiday
which expands me outside ofwhat's comfortable, it's going
to feel uncomfortable in yourbody.
And so, once you can actuallystart to differentiate how that
feels in your body, to be inthese moments, because you have
awareness, you can go ah, yeah,that's this thing, this is me in
(11:10):
this, in this voidy,uncomfortable, sucky moment, can
I be here, can I be in it?
And this is why it's soimportant, because then you can
start to recognize oh, I'm okay,yeah, I'm okay here, yeah,
right, and then we can bring umthat presence Like this is how
do we be in it?
We bring this presence.
I think presence comes back toall of this and you can come
(11:33):
back to presence, and I thinkthis is also the piece where,
like, even if I was talkingabout before this disconnect
between where it's forward andwhere we are now, yeah, I can
put it out there into the worldand say this is what I want.
But in order to not feel suckyabout it, to not feel impatient
about it, to not feel anxiousabout it, it's out there Now.
Come back into this moment, bepresent, be present in your body
(11:53):
, find peace in your body, live,take the next step.
You don't have to worry aboutthe hundred steps ahead of you,
yeah, because if you start toworry about the hundred steps
ahead of you, you'll get anxiousand you won't do it.
It's like come back to rightnow.
Jamy (12:04):
What is real right now?
Yeah, no-transcript, and likerelax into the discomfort
(12:46):
because you know what it holds,you know the gift in it.
But that takes practice, but itis there.
Keri (12:53):
It is on that spectrum of experiencing challenges,
discomfort, like in general,whatever it is that the suck
means for you, you know the 51shock line as a messenger, and
we have learned Jamie and I havelearned over the last few years
(13:16):
as we watched my life unfold.
The shock line means thatthings come to me in shocking
ways and ultimately, I've had tolearn this has been part of my
journey is that when thingsshock me, then and this, by the
way, when we talk about humandesign stuff we all exist, like
we all have all of this.
It's just that, for me, this ishow I learned this way and how
I deliver a message this way.
And when I started to learnthis, I was like, oh, if I don't
(13:41):
surrender to the fact thatthings are going to shock the
hell out of me, then I'm goingto be unbalanced and totally in
a turbulent life, creatingabsolute drama and mess, which
is where my life had been peoplefor a really long time.
And I went yeah, that's notwhat I want.
But it doesn't also mean thatjust shock now ends.
Shock is now just like huh.
Now I say things to her and I'mlike huh, it's funny.
(14:02):
Like oftentimes I will now likethere will be a shocking thing
that happens and I can look atit and go, huh, you won't
believe, can't wait to see whatthis one holds.
And it's true, right, like Iwill often come to you laughing
(14:22):
Like, ah, this one's funny,right.
And so it's the way that Iembrace it is like I could look
at it and go, oh my God, thisshocking thing happened again
and my whole life is going tofall apart.
Or I can look at it and go, huh, Okay, well, that's an
interesting thing that I'm goingto get to deal with now.
Right, and how am I going todeal with that and what's this
thing going to hold for me?
And truly, I think that all ofthese things, anytime we have a
shock, anytime we have aheartbreak, anytime we have
(14:44):
things that don't necessarily gothe way we do, it catalyzes us
into our better, right.
And so now, sometimes, when I'min those moments that I'm like,
oh, my God, I don't know, likeit's like layering on top of me,
and I have days that peoplelike it layers on top of me, and
I'm like holy cow, I think whatI just dealt with in one day is
what somebody would deal within like a year.
Right, and no joke, like it canhappen that way.
(15:05):
And I look at it and I go, huh.
Now I'm like, oh, going tohappen tomorrow, if I can
actually embody this and embracethis and be in this, right,
because that's what it is, it'slike I don't avoid it because
it's going to bring up feelings.
Right, you're going to feelstuff and even if you can't
mentally say I feel angry, Ifeel whatever in your body,
(15:28):
you're going to have feelings.
And if you can learn and thisis, I think this is a really
important thing around how we bein the suck, and this is
something I've really had topractice If I can learn not to
put a story to it and not let mymind get all wrapped up in it
and keep myself trapped in thelooping thoughts of, oh, this is
so terrible, and he this andshe that, and I can't figure
this out, and blah, blah, blah,blah, blah and I get all mental
(15:49):
about it, then then I could staytrapped there, and I have for a
lifetime.
I've stayed trapped there formonths.
That's the reality right now,and Jamie's watched me do it and
now I go huh, okay, well, thathappened.
I feel this, I'm going to gofeel it, and it might take me a
half an hour, it might take metwo hours, it might take me an
entire day.
Usually this day not reallyanymore.
It's usually only like a couplehours for me now.
Jamy (16:10):
And I want to say to Carrie that that, like we have a
story and the people around youwill have a story I mean, like
I can feel I've even done it inyour dating you know, like that
thing he's doing could probablyit could mean this, you know,
and so you, you, you also havepeople around you confirming the
potential scary story, right,like, but it's still all story.
(16:35):
It's all stories.
Then you don't know, unless youhave a conversation or you
reach the end, if it's not withanother perfect person, if it's
an event, you don't know what itmeans.
Keri (16:47):
So notice the story, paying attention to that story
in your mind and then if you canactually just say, okay, story,
I now hear you, I've nowhonored and acknowledged that
there's a story that's happeningin my mind, and kind of just
tell that voice, thank you, andthen come into your body and
just feel it, like if you canactually feel it and touch it
(17:07):
and move that energy.
Magic sits on the other side ofit, because really what we are
doing is releasing trappedenergy into our body, which,
again, what I'm saying is it'sthe catalyst, right?
So then you've removed thisenergy that's trapped in your
body, your field, your mental,emotional, spiritual, energetic
field, and once that's gone,it's gone Like it's gone people.
And then on the other side ofit, generally speaking, what I
(17:27):
find is there is magic thathappens, but if we stay stuck in
it which I have for sure donein the past for months on end,
then I just stay stuck in it formonths and no magic happens in
that.
Jamy (17:38):
Yeah, I think, too, it's important to recognize it,
doesn't?
It's not always, it doesn'talways come by way of shock.
It can be like, um, yeah, itcan be like an underwhelming
(17:58):
sort of energy.
But notice when, yeah, you'relike trying to avoid discomfort
in life, like, uh, I got to dothis thing, uh, this is going to
suck, whatever, like whateveror something happens that sucked
Like, notice where you'reputting a negative spin on the
experiences that are happeningaround you because you are the
author, you literally get todetermine, and I so I have my
(18:21):
brother-in-law who does notunderstand we do not speak the
same language and he used toalways say, jamie, you do not
live in touch with reality andI'm like, I mean, like it's real
for me.
I'm really experiencing thesethings and if I get to define my
reality, why would I define onethat sucks?
I get to define my reality, whywould I define one that sucks?
(18:44):
Why would I define one that'sdisempowered and challenging and
you know, like negative?
I mean like you have that, likehave that reality if that's
what works for you.
But this is mine, I'm going tocreate it the way I want to, and
all of you listening, like yourreality is the way you
interpret the things that arehappening around you.
(19:05):
Absolutely, that's it.
So stop Like there is noreality that you have to
accommodate, except for the whatis the actions that are
happening.
But how you interpret them isentirely in your power and your
authority Totally.
Keri (19:20):
There's also something you said, too, that I'd like to
expand on.
You said, like, with embracingthe suck, like I was even
thinking about times when I hearpeople say to me again you guys
, I've been doing this for along time.
And when I hear people say tome, I don't want to go and do
the email, I don't want to goand put myself out there, I
don't want to blah, blah, blah,blah, blah, that's going to suck
to have to do that and we'reonly supposed to do the things
that are really lightest up.
And I want to say bullshit,because sometimes and I'm going
(19:43):
to say this as somebody who alsosays, yes, do the things that
light you up and live a life ofpleasure.
And sometimes that's going tomean you got to stay up and you
have a launch to hit, and it's10 o'clock at night and
everybody, or it's eight o'clockat night and your family's
going out to have a party andyou're like, fuck, I have a goal
and I have a launch to hit.
And so you know what, on thisday today, I'm going to sit here
and I'm going to write theemails and I'm going to get them
out, and it's going to suckbecause I'm going to miss this
(20:04):
thing, but so be it.
I have missed many things frommy family for this purpose,
right, and sometimes that sucks.
And sometimes I have to look at, be on stage and be in a really
cool place, but the suck comesbecause I missed something else
that I wanted to be at Right,and there's always a choice in
(20:26):
this and sometimes we have toembrace that part of it and you
have to like, choose, choose.
Do you want the end goal, yeah?
Jamy (20:37):
Or are you going to sit here and say to yourself, well,
that thing is a little bit hardso I'm not going to figure it
out and I'm not going to do it,I'm going to give up.
Well, this is where we have tobe really honest with ourselves.
Right is like am I an avoidanceor is this really not for me?
And then also focusing onimmediate pleasure versus the
the long-term pleasure, feelgood, whatever it is that you
(20:57):
are dedicated to creating,because we, our minds, can
convince us all day long that,oh, this isn't for me.
And if you're not being reallybrutally honest with yourself,
you'll believe that shit right.
You have to be able to alsocall yourself out and be like
that's avoidance.
You are avoiding a little hardwork because it's uncomfortable
(21:18):
in this moment, but you knowit's what you need in order to
achieve the bigger thing youwant, and you're never going to
get that bigger thing If you'regoing to avoid all these little
moments of discomfort.
It's the way it is.
Keri (21:31):
There's no way it is the way it is, and sometimes, peeps,
it's really funny, cause I wasthinking people are like I'm
going to go into the onlinespace and it's going to be
easier, and I get to get out ofjob and I'm like, holy moly,
sometimes the job would beeasier.
People depends on where you'reat Right.
Don't don't actually think thatjust because you're coming into
the space, that all of a sudden, like angels and fairies, are
going to hand you everything ona silver platter, like you
(21:51):
actually have to do the work.
It is a lot of work.
Jamy (21:54):
It's different work and a different boss, but you choose,
you know, like, how you want tonavigate that.
But yeah, there's work involved, like you got to work in order
to achieve and even that likework right, like I love my work.
If I had a million dollars inthe bank right now, I would
(22:15):
still be doing exactly what I'mdoing.
It would probably be easier, itwould probably be a little more
fun, it would, you know, likethe dynamics might be a little
different but I would still bedoing it.
So, even this idea of work,like notice if that has a
negative connotation in yourmind or or a positive one,
because again, that's your storyyou get to define that right,
(22:36):
like I love my work, even whenit is staying up at 10 o'clock
and writing freaking emails orsomething you know, like it's
just a part of the puzzle, partof the job, how to do it.
Keri (22:48):
Okay.
So let's, let's wrap this Cause.
We're trying to keep these, youguys are trying to keep them.
We're trying to keep them shortand sweet.
So, if we are in the suck andand I was saying before, like I
wanted to bring into theconversation, like sometimes
again, somebody who's dealt withmental health like sometimes it
could drag on for months, but,as I've said, I've learned like
(23:09):
I can move through this prettyquickly now, right, so how do we
embrace the suck and not let itcontrol us and like we can
still be in it but also, I wouldeven say, just live life while
we're in the midst of the suck?
How do we also not stay stuckin the in the suck?
That was a lot of challengingwords how do we not stay stuck
(23:32):
in the suck while we alsoembrace the suck?
Jamy (23:36):
Yeah, I think that.
I mean this is what we weretalking about earlier is this,
this act of acceptance?
And acceptance is not settling,it is recognizing what is and
not trying to change it.
You know, and it's like when wecome into this place of
acceptance like this is what is,then we have an honest way of
(23:56):
navigating it, whereas whenwe're avoiding it and also, just
to point out, avoidance doesnot get rid of things when we
avoid, that thing stays thereand it gets bigger and bigger
and bigger until you have todeal with it.
So, even in the grand scheme ofthings, addressing it, looking
towards it, being in acceptance,whatever you know, like
(24:18):
embracing it helps you overcome,move through, change, whatever,
it is faster and it almostfeels paradoxical, right, like
I'm going to accept it in orderto change it, but that doesn't
like.
Those two things feel likeopposites.
So we, we have to accept what islike, we have to be able to be
honest and we also have torecognize that there is no, no
(24:41):
way around it.
I mean, like it is a part oflife, it is part of this human
experience in a nervous system,body, and the struggle comes
when we're trying to get awayfrom it versus like this is
where I'm at in the processright now, and I actually don't
need to resist it, I can allowit to show me what's going on.
And in that acceptance, in thatlike not trying to push against
(25:04):
, it is actually what allows usto move out of it.
It feels so paradoxical, it'slike no, that doesn't make sense
to the mind, because it isn't amental thing, it is an
embodiment thing, and so, like Ithink that watching your
stories too, because it's reallyeasy to be like, oh, my life
sucks, this is just where I'm at.
That's a story too, right, likejust I continually ask what
(25:26):
story am I telling right now?
That this is how I'mexperiencing, interpreting this
situation.
Keri (25:33):
So good.
Um, I have two things to addfrom what you said.
Everything you said is awesomeand one of the things is I was
watching.
Someone sent me a video theother day, I reeled the other
day and it was.
I just loved the simplicity ofit.
It's like once you bringawareness to the problem or to a
event that's been happeningthat feels like, or like a block
(25:53):
let's call it a block in yoursystem, right, the awareness can
be enough to let it go, to nothave it be a problem anymore.
Like, oh yeah, now I get it.
Now either.
It's a choice, it becomes achoice, right.
So you have the awareness andyou're like oh, this thing is
here.
I can choose to stay stuck in itand loop on it and like this is
(26:14):
literally what I'd have to haveto say in my mind.
You guys, like I had to retrainmy mind.
I can choose to hear thesethoughts and let them loop all
day long, every day, and I canremember asking Jamie, you guys,
at some point I can ask manyfriends at some point I'm like
how do you make it end?
How do I make this loopingthing end?
In my mind they're like stop it, carrie.
And I'm like the amount oftimes I want to spit at people
who said stop it, carrie, yeah.
Jamy (26:36):
But I can't happens.
It's like yeah, it'suncomfortable and it is hard,
yeah Right.
Keri (26:40):
Eventually, it is that you just stop Like, you just start
to be like redirecting yourthoughts into other things, and
it might feel uncomfortable atfirst, it might feel like you've
been lying to yourself at first.
Yeah Right, but still redirectthem, still just pay attention
and you can redirect and make anew choice and in those moments,
make a new choice.
Do I want to stay here or do Iwant to?
What would be the better thingfor me?
Is it to go for a walk?
Is it to eat this healthy food?
Is it to go and do the thingthat I've been avoiding?
(27:03):
Because once you go, do thething you're avoiding, it's gone
right.
Jamy (27:06):
Yes.
Keri (27:07):
And the other thing I wanted to add here is one of my
favorite like things to say ispay attention or pay with pain,
right, because I loved how yousaid it like it just keeps
building, building, building.
So, whether it's like, if youdon't pay attention and there's
this little niggle in your body,then you don't pay attention,
(27:27):
then all of a sudden it's a bigniggle and it's a big problem.
And then all of a sudden you'rethe doctor, and then there's
bills to pay, and then there'schiro, there's all the things,
right, if you don't payattention to your money, stuff,
and God, we've all done this,one didn't pay the bill, and
then all of a sudden there'sfees to pay because you didn't
pay the bill, and then there'sthe next thing, and then there's
the next thing, and all of asudden $100 bill becomes a $500
bill.
Pay attention or pay with pain,and so if you're not paying
attention to the things, therewill be a painful consequence,
(27:51):
usually, right, and it just getsbigger.
And so, or like partner, yourspouse, your friend, whatever
your, your boss, your, whereverit is, and you just hold it in
and you people please, andyou're like, oh, it's all going
to be fine, it's just going towork itself out.
I'll just be a little mouseover here in a corner.
No, it just gets bigger andbigger and bigger and you get
more resentful and eventuallyyou get divorced.
(28:11):
Yeah Right.
Jamy (28:13):
And that pain is expensive , right, yeah, I mean, like it's
true, yeah.
Keri (28:21):
And it's not easy.
Jamy (28:22):
I think that this idea of like you just change it sounds
like it's easy.
It is one of the hardest thingsto do to recognize that you are
looping in your own mentalstory and choose to change it
Like it's really uncomfortable.
But I challenge you to try it,to notice what comes up.
Like you said, you may feellike you're lying to yourself
(28:44):
because the whole world has toldyou that's not reality.
You don't just get to makethings up A hundred percent.
You do.
You do get to do that.
It is uncomfortable and on theother side, it is liberating.
It is so liberating.
Keri (29:02):
I will say.
I will say, just sitting herein this moment and honoring what
you've just said, like it ismicro moments and it was micro
moments for the last years thatI could see these moments.
But honestly, everybody, it'staken me years Like I'm not
going to sit here and pretend tosay to you that, like overnight
, my mind changed and I changedmental health issues that were
like debilitating me for years.
It's taken me years of work todo this, but what I can
(29:22):
officially say now and truly sayis that the video that I was
playing in my mind, whilst Ihave created amazing success in
my life and had so many abundant, wonderful things happen to me,
I also had these horrid mentalhealth problems that kept me
miserable and trapped into amarriage that was really
unhealthy and unhappy.
And I now look at the movie ofmy life and it's fucking magical
(29:51):
.
Every day something magicalhappens and love is here and
abundance is here and, like I,literally, I literally feel like
I'm not on the same timeline.
I can't even think some ofthose thoughts anymore.
And Jamie and I have beenhaving conversations recently
and, like Jamie, I can rememberthat like that would have
happened in the past, but it'snot in my like, I can't even
bring it into my mind anymore.
Yeah, and and I'm not going tosay this to you Like it happened
, like that Cause it didn't, butit was persistence with the
(30:12):
knowing of like you know what,there's other people in the
world who are not in the sameproblems that I am, who don't
have the same mental healthissues that I do, who aren't
looping in these things, thatdon't have the same inner
experience that I was having.
So I'm like, if it can happenfor them, it can happen for me.
And I just kept having faith.
And in those little micromoments where you might lie to
yourself and say to yourself Idon't really believe this,
(30:35):
eventually you'll start tobelieve it and eventually the
world will show you a mirror.
In the mirror work that you'relike, oh, yes, and it might only
last for a day, that time, yeah, right, but then you celebrate
that day and then the next timeit's like a whole week of like
these magical miracles and yourmind is in a better place.
Yes, celebrate those moments,and maybe only for right.
Now it's three minutes, right,but it's these micro moments
(30:59):
that you keep paying attentionto that you go.
Yes, if I can have it here, Ican have it for three minutes, I
can have it for five minutes, Ican have it for a day, I can
have it for a week and I'veliterally been I don't know two
weeks now without feeling likeI'm going to have a panic attack
or anxiety.
Jamy (31:12):
Maybe even three now, no, maybe two, but like there's an
awareness that it's there, butyou get to choose how you
interface with it, right Likeit's empowering.
Keri (31:27):
It's a really empowering experience and so, but it starts
with these micro moments and itstarts with making new choices.
That you're going to start topay attention to what's
happening or continue to paywith pain, I love it.
Anything else you want to say,or do we get to wrap that here?
Jamy (31:41):
No, I think we can wrap that because we have lots of
conversations to have.
There's more to say, but we'llsay them in other conversations.
Keri (31:46):
All right, well, thanks for listening, guys.
Jamy (31:50):
If you enjoyed this show, let us know.
We're all about authenticconnections, so come chat with
us on social media or email.
Links are listed in the shownotes.
Keri (31:59):
And please make sure to subscribe to the podcast on your
favorite platform and share themagic on your socials.
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