August 13, 2024 • 35 mins
Imagine if the key to a thriving relationship wasn't about rigid roles but about shared curiosity and mutual growth. Join us as we dismantle the myth that women are inherently more psychic, revealing that everyone has the potential to access these abilities. Through personal reflections and anecdotes, we unearth the nuances of relationship dynamics, challenging conventional teachings around polarity and the traditional expectations of submission and leadership.
We dive into the heart of equality and authenticity in relationships, emphasizing the importance of finding a partner who aligns with your desired dynamic rather than molding someone into a predetermined role. Discover the unique challenges faced by human design manifesters in dating and the balance required between initiating actions and allowing a partner to lead. Learn why the "happy wife, happy life" mentality can lead to resentment and how shifting towards mutual satisfaction can foster genuine interactions and a stronger connection.
Curiosity isn't just a trait; it's a powerful tool for nurturing healthy relationships. By asking deeper, more meaningful questions, we can uncover alternative outcomes and create win-win scenarios. Explore how compassion and understanding can bridge gaps created by societal norms and traditional roles. Tune in to uncover insights on how to show up as your fullest self, fostering authentic connections and creating a more harmonious and fulfilling relationship landscape. Don't miss this enlightening conversation that promises to reshape your view on love and partnership.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to redefining normal.
Join us as we questionconventional thinking and talk
about the courage it takes tocreate and live a deliciously
vibrant life.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
This podcast is for people who know there's a better
way to do life and love how weshow up in connection to others
our kids, our partners, ourbusiness and, beyond that, our
relationship with money,vitality and, more than anything
, ourselves.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
We're two shamelessly unapologetic moms choosing to
experience the fullness of life.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
And we're collapsing the conditioning that says you
can't live a life of pleasure,peace and abundance in the midst
of the mundane of life,responsibilities, work and kids.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Thank you for listening in.
Let's do this Today on the show.
Jamie and I hopped in from aconversation that we were just
having between ourselves whichis often how these shows start
and we were talking aboutrelationship dynamics and
polarity, and so that's what ourshow is about today.
So as you lean into this, enjoythe show what I've been
(01:05):
thinking about when you say this.
So Jamie and I were justtalking in case this actually
ends up as a thing.
We were just talking aboutpolarity between men and women
and women being the oracle forthe men and that they were,
generally speaking, more psychicand gifted in the other realms
(01:26):
in our clear senses.
And I said I don't think thatit actually is about that,
because we're not necessarilymore gifted.
It's just that we have thatinitial experience of it, but
all of us can.
And then you said somethingabout polarity and how there's
so many people teaching polaritythings, and it's what I wanted
to say.
And that was like I think it'sreally interesting that there
are these divides of where ithas to be like such strong
(01:49):
polarity ends to the spectrumand it's like the woman to
completely be in her submissiveand in her surrender and all
these things and the man'ssupposed to completely lead, and
I actually think sometimes itgets like really messy in this,
but also there's truth to it andI I think that every
relationship, though like and Ithink this is where the I think
(02:11):
fuzzy waters or the fuzzy linesgo is that every relationship is
different, Right?
So like it might not work forthat relationship that the man
wants to do it a certain way andthe woman wants to do it a
certain way and that they findtheir way together, and I think
that's where a lot of peoplekind of mess it up.
But in the meantime, I thinkthe other thing around leading
to from women to men is like wegive them the idea, but it's not
(02:35):
like you're voiceless, it'slike they're like I always, I
always say to my partner it'slike I will lead, I will follow
your lead as long as you'releading me to where I want to go
.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Right I've had that conversation with Kyle as well
that the leadership is inspiredby what I desire to create, or
at least in part.
You know like that it isconsiderate of that, but I'm not
going to, and this is actuallyso.
We were talking about the gymeven before this, but even at
(03:08):
the gym, I can feel thedifference between some like
when Kyle's like spotting me orguiding me or whatever when he's
doing something to my body,versus supporting my body in the
direction that I want it to go,and it's similar than in
leading for anything, what's up.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Sorry, you said something about the gym and then
the whole thing just crackedout.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
I would say so at the gym, because we've just started
working out together and solike he was spotting me or he
was like trying to show me howto do things, and I could feel
the difference between when hewas trying to move my body,
trying to do something to mybody and force it into something
, versus supporting my body todo what I wanted it to do,
(04:04):
wanted it to do, and they feltvery different and this I feel
like it speaks to.
What you're talking about islike if you're guiding me in
alignment with myself, I willfollow that a hundred percent.
If you are guiding me against myown knowing I can't, I can't,
and that's part of that dynamicand the responsibility is the
man to be guiding inconsideration and support of the
wellbeing of the whole.
(04:24):
And um, but even what you weretalking about, like polarity
coaching, um, is like makingmore room for that to be
beautiful too.
Like there are some spaceswhere it's like, yeah, very
polarized, right, like allfeminine for her very leadership
masculine oriented for him, allfeminine for her very
(04:47):
leadership masculine orientedfor him.
And where I sit with, that islike that's beautiful for those
two people that are looking forthat dynamic and want that
dynamic and are willing tocultivate that dynamic.
The trap that can happen issomeone who's in a place where
they maybe aren't experiencingwhat they want to in
relationship can outsource andbe like, oh, that must be what I
need to do in order to createor find what works, versus
(05:12):
staying internal and asking like, is that what I want?
Is that experience and thatdynamic?
What I want to create, first ofall and then second of all, you
know, like, like is is mypartner interested in that same
thing?
Versus like, oh, that's working, let me, let me do that.
That must be the quote, unquote, right way Um versus this, like
(05:34):
staying really centered in whatis in alignment for you, what
is correct for your desires, foryour purpose, for your whatever
.
And I've been guilty of doingthat, like I've seen things and
I'm like, oh wow, that soundsawesome, I want that versus I
want what is in my highest andbest, not what looks amazing and
(05:59):
beautiful for anotheralchemical equation of two
different people.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Totally.
It makes me think of like Idon't know the word like the
disharmony or the dysfunction inthat dynamic I think is the
word yeah, in that there's menin the world, and I was thinking
even as we were talking aboutthis, because for a man to lead,
that's, leading us to where wewant to go takes a high level
attunement to us to where wewant to go, takes a high level
(06:25):
attunement to to us, to us asthe woman, absolutely, and not
every man can do this, and thisis where I think the dysfunction
comes.
There's a lot of men who willlead to what they want, and then
a woman who doesn't have herown sovereignty and her own
inner reflection will followbecause they're like, oh, thank
god, there's a man who's leadingme, or, thank God, there's a
man who's caring for me, butit's not always that they're
(06:47):
caring for you, for what youwant.
They're caring for you fortheir own needs to be met, and
that I don't think is thehealthiest dynamic.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Realistically you can look at this.
There are men that overridetheir own knowing because she
wants what she wants, and so youknow it's like it goes both
ways their own knowing becauseshe wants what she wants, and so
you know it's like it goes bothways.
It goes both ways Totally.
Both of the individuals in arelationship are not attuned to
(07:17):
their own knowing.
But yeah, if there's, if there,if the two individuals aren't
insourced and being guided bytheir own connection to core,
then, yeah, it's really easy toget to override yourself in when
(07:38):
, especially when there'ssomeone in the dynamic or in the
room who is like I know how todo this, I know how to make it
work, and that should always be.
I know how to make it work forme and I need you to know how to
make it work for you, and thenwe work together to create
chemistry in that.
Yeah, because I loverelationships where they're very
(08:03):
equal.
I love relationships wherethere is no polarity.
I love relationships where thepolarity is inverted to
traditional roles, as long asboth people involved love it and
are intentionally co-creatingthat with each other, that there
is no like, right or wrong way.
Men should act, women shouldact and relationships should be.
(08:26):
And if you want that, anyspecific type of relationship,
find a partner who also wantsthat type of relationship.
Not trying to force a partnerbecause you've chosen them and
now you want them to accommodateyour relationship style, yeah,
or even doing it to yourself,right, relationship style.
(08:49):
Or even doing it to yourself,right, like I actually am more
suited to this type of dynamic,but now I see these people
saying this is the right way.
So maybe let me contort myselfto be more feminine or less
feminine, or whatever circleyou're in, whatever
conversations you're hearing isgoing to be different to what
you know, what your mind ispicking up and thinking.
You quote, unquote should bedoing A hundred percent.
I have an open head, and Ajnatoo, so I can really take on
(09:14):
ideas and be like oh wow, maybethat's the way this should work.
And so I have to be veryintentional about discerning
what I internalize versus what Ijust hear and acknowledge and
then come back to myself anddoes that, does that actually
resonate with me?
Is that in service to me in myhighest, and then let the rest
(09:35):
go, which has been a learningprocess to do that.
Yeah, it's easy to caught up init, it is, it is, especially
when your design is to just kindof, you know, be inspired by it
all, take it all and amplify it.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
There's two things that have come.
When you said that One isremind me I'm going to say happy
wife, happy life thing in asecond, but the thing that is
coming to me from this is beinga manifester, right?
So like being a manifester inthis so human design manifestor.
Um, you know this, it's beensuch a freaking hard journey,
like it's not been easy for mein dating, to understand how to
(10:13):
be a manifestor and stand in myown truth, which is to initiate.
Right, it's the completeopposite of what people would
teach you in polarity school.
It's like I'm not supposed tobe the initiator, I'm not
supposed to be the one drivingthe relationship.
I I'm not, but like it doesn'tmatter what I do, naturally I
initiate like you just come intomy field, jamie, I'll say it, I
fucking initiate all the damntime.
(10:34):
Yeah, and as a generator.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
I love all of that energy to respond to.
I'm like Ooh yes, Ooh, yes, Ilike this, I'll do that.
You know, it's like havingsomeone offering continual
something to respond to isamazing Right, but in the world
of dating it was really it is.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
It has been a really big challenge for me because I
also get really frustrated inthe wait.
I'm like, oh God, do I have towait for him to fucking do this?
I have to wait for him to pickthe date.
I have to wait for him and I'mlike because in me, in my world,
I'm already done, I've alreadythe dates picked, the things
done, the time right, but I haveto wait and let him lead.
And in the dating, in thedating pool, I say like for me
(11:17):
it has been work on that,because if I totally come in and
castrate and like, don't givethem yeah, and they don't feel
that doesn't feel good either.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
No no.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
This balance of and what I'm, what I've learned, is
like again.
It's like this informing ofwhat I want, yeah, and then they
get to take it from there,Exactly yeah.
So I inform, which is my job asa manifester, and then they
take it from there.
It's Um.
It's really funny because uhcan't say the name.
Um, my partner doesn't know yet.
I haven't actually said this tohim yet, but like one day he
(11:47):
said to me he said it to memultiple times.
He's like I love your ideas,carrie, and I'm like, yeah, I
just.
It just makes me smile becauseI have obviously in this, in
this situation, being able tofind somebody who I land the
ideas and then he runs with them.
He always he's like he'll runwith them or he won't.
He'll be like I don't, butgenerally speaking, he loves the
(12:07):
ideas and the way that I'vestarted to be able to land
things with him doesn't feelcastrating.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Right, and so it's been.
This journey, like on thedating place and this is what
you were talking about is likeliving into who we are but then
also letting other people be whothey are, yeah, and, and
actually that probably does leadinto the happy wife, happy life
.
So I talked about it in it endswith me, um, my book, and I
talk about the fact that sooften as men, they they have
(12:40):
that saying I don't know, do wehave it here in America or is it
really more Australian Happywife, happy life, yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
That's the thing, yeah, but it becomes like
resentful.
It's like I don't want this,but I got to do whatever she
wants in order to Right.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
And this is what my point is is there's a lot of
people in the world, there's alot of men in the world, who are
doing this role.
And this is what my point is isthere's a lot of people in the
world, there's a lot of men inthe world who are doing this
role.
The happy wife, happy life yeah, and so nobody's happy no, and
then they end up people pleasing, yeah, and then no one feels
good.
Like that was part of the endof Hugh and I was like.
I was like stop, stop doinganything that you need to do to
please me.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
That doesn't actually please you.
Yeah, let's see if thisactually works, right, like.
But people are afraid of thehonest truth of that.
Like, what if it doesn't work?
Oh my God, what am I going todo, you know?
So there is some courage inletting the truth of that come
to the surface.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Because you guess what it might end.
Right, right, right.
But if it ends by the way, youmight find something even better
.
A lot Right.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
And if it doesn't end , you also find something better
.
I mean, like it's the same withKyle and I.
We had to get really honest,like if we're both our true
selves.
Does this work?
And we ended up in a placewhere it did.
You know, so it's like, but weboth had to be willing to know
(13:57):
that it might not.
In order to get here, wecouldn't be attached to a
specific outcome, so you still?
Speaker 1 (14:03):
you still aren't attached to it.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
No, no, yeah exactly.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
You're still like we're both going to be who we
are and until the day that wecan't be, yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Until the day that that doesn't work.
To do things in the equationthat we are, yeah, but even it's
like making room for that makesit more and more easy to know
or to feel secure in.
No matter what I do, no matterwhat direction I go, he's still
going to be a supporter.
He's still going to be there,maybe not in the same capacity
(14:33):
or definition or dynamic, buthe's always going to be there
and and I'm not attached to that, it's like I'm okay if he's not
, and that's actually what makesroom for him to be the pair.
The irony of it, you know.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Because ultimately in relationship like and I think
this is a big, a big thing thatreally doesn't get talked about
is that men want freedom Like weall do.
Big, a big thing that reallydoesn't get talked about is that
men want freedom like we all do, but I think, especially for a
man they really want freedom andmost women we like smother them
.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Yeah we smother them.
It makes us feel safer, likeright, if I can control
everything, then I don't need tobe uncomfortable and I can't
live without you, so I can't letyou do all these things.
In case you might leave me,because and I mean like that
existed, meant to.
There are anxious, attached menwho like smother and control.
Similarly, it's you know, itlooks different, probably in
(15:29):
relationship, but um, the energycan, yeah, exist on the other
side as well, and it is.
Is it's a fear?
It's a it's fear of abandonment, fear of um well, I mean, you
name it, whatever your wound isyou know, trying to avoid that.
So but where were you goingwith the?
Um, happy wife, happy life.
(15:50):
Was there more?
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Oh yeah, it was just kind of kind of more like this
whole thing around.
Like that, we need to besovereign in our own selves and
we need to be able to uh, showup in the true authenticity
authenticity of our desires.
And what I'm finding in mycurrent relationship is that,
the more that we do, there'salways a middle ground somehow,
(16:17):
right, and if and if there isn't, if there's too many places
where there isn't like, thenit's probably not the right
place.
Yeah, that is valuableinformation too.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Like you need to be able to know that in order to
create a healthy dynamic youhave to be also open to the fact
that this person may not beable to co-create that with you.
But I think when we live in asociety that's like find a
partner and then that's it, likeyou got to find them and you
(16:59):
capacity to be true to whatworks for you and what doesn't
work for you.
But I think even in thosedynamics, if everybody can come
back to self-acceptance andacceptance of other, you can
make anything work right.
Like you make room for theother person's truths as well,
(17:20):
as far out or unrecognizable toyou as they may be.
If you can create like honorfor that other person's reality
too, there there is, there's awide space for middle ground
when you can do that.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Hmm, yes, and then everybody's happier.
Yeah, you know, and I think it'sinteresting if I come at like
this people pleasing thing againand happy wife, happy life,
like it's almost even as we'vetalked about it, I feel the um,
um, I can feel like the lashingat men for going to work,
(18:01):
providing, not being around forthe kids.
Yeah, you know, like this wholething of like, oh, they have it
easy, there's a lot of women whowill say, oh, they have it easy
, yeah, right, or like theydon't have to do anything, or
then they come home and I makedinner for them and I've got to
do all these.
You know, whatever, whateverthe thing is Cause it's a very I
hear it often right, and it'sinteresting because in that,
(18:27):
like I hear on the other side ofit now, as people who are my
clients as been on dates,listening to people's marriages
or their relationships and allthese things, I'm like man.
I actually have a lot ofcompassion for the men, because
a lot of these guys, they go outand do this and they literally
like, like, they burn themselvesout to the point where so many
(18:51):
of them end up with heartattacks yeah, huge illnesses,
right, because they have putthemselves out and they've
burned themselves out for somany years looking after a
family and so often it's justtaken for granted.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Right, I mean like think about this If we both did
this, if women could hold morecompassion for the men in their
lives and if men could holdcompassion for the experience of
the women in our lives.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Right, because Because both are hard, and I'm
saying this going like they eachhave their respective
challenges.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
You know, and it's so easy to be like mine's harder.
You don't even know, they don'tand we don't.
But we can have compassion andcuriosity for the lived
experience of the other andthat's what creates that wide.
You know't know your livedexperience, but I can still hold
curiosity and compassion for it.
(19:52):
You know, like I didn'texperience it the same way, but
it's kind of bullshit to be like, yeah well, that wasn't how it
worked for me, so you know youshould be doing it different.
That doesn't work for anybody.
No, Right.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
I think I also want to go back and even in this like
piece here, like put a littlelike tick mark, because I can
hear, I can hear the people whoare like, but I work a job and I
come home and I da, da, da daas a woman, right, and I'm not
talking about that Like if it isa really totally like miss,
miss, balanced thing where, likeyou, are out and working and
taking care of an entire houseand your partner and those
(20:27):
things exist as well, like thatexists and that's a conversation
, right, and that's aconversation between you two,
and you're right, like thereneeds to be a different dynamic
around that and like oftentimesthere's a lot, of, a lot of
people who are in that polar,that dynamic of the woman stays
home and the man goes to work.
And yes, we do want theirsupport in that way, and this is
(20:49):
also the decision you two made.
So it's like, how do you findyour way through it and actually
have a lot of love andcompassion for him too, because
he is playing the role thatyou're asking him to play, and
what, if?
Speaker 2 (20:59):
what if?
Well, or there's gotta be morecommunication Cause I think it's
like, if you're not happy, um,in the role, whatever role that
may be, working, not working,working full time, making equal
pay, whatever right, like it'slike if you're unhappy, the
discussion has to be had, andnot from a place of blame and
(21:20):
resentment, but from love andfrom finding common ground, and
I think that's the piece that'smissing so often.
Is that it that the conversationcomes from a place of
resentment and blame and likeit's like they are fighting each
other versus.
We're on the same side here andwe're trying to co-create
(21:42):
something that makes both of ushappy, and not pitting each
other, like pitting yourselfagainst the other, but actually
seeing them as the partner thatyou've chosen to be with.
You know, and I think that if,if, if you can't have that
conversation, then the questionbecomes is is this a
(22:04):
relationship worth being in,right, like?
I think that the, the, thewrong questions and the wrong um
, not even wrong Right, cause Idon't I don't love that word but
like, um, or not helpfulquestions are being asked.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
The quality of life is based on the quality of
questions that you ask.
So if you ask good questions,you'll get the good answers.
And I say we're saying good andbad.
Right, I've got quotes here.
But like there are really goodquestions that you can ask,
they'll ask.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Like that, a lot of people will avoid because
they're not the questions thatwe hear every day all around us,
is the, is the.
I think part of the challengeLike, like we always talk about,
the norm is pitting man againstwoman.
They don't understand us,they're bullshit, and there is
both the men or the women,depending on which side you're
(22:59):
on, and I think it's not evenmen and women like the, the.
They don't understand me.
Across any divide is problematic, is creating more separation
and is not getting us closer tounderstanding ourself and other
on a deeper level, but that'swhat we're fed.
(23:20):
I mean like.
If you look at any TV show, any, I mean like can you name any
TV shows where the familydynamics are super healthy and
the, the, the parents, are in ahealthy, loving, functional
relationship and there'scommunication and there's
(23:40):
respect and there's cooperation?
You know it's like we, we areshown a really dysfunctional
picture of relating and marriageand family, and so it's up to
us to not replicate what'smodeled for us, but to ask
deeper questions that are not inthe realm of normal.
(24:04):
And actually, what do I want tocreate and what questions are
going to help me create?
That is is how you changeanything really.
I love that seriously, can youthink of?
Speaker 1 (24:19):
any, the one, the only one that's come to my mind
is the Netflix series.
This Is Us.
Uh-huh.
It feels like the most real,raw, like even in their
dysfunction there's function.
Mm-hmm, because there's justthe love.
Like, how do we come back toeach other?
How do we make this work?
(24:40):
How do we figure this out?
Yeah, and I feel like thatmessy is probably one of the
best and it's probably why itwas such a loved show.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Right.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Is because it's probably one of the best, most
real, without being likehollywood.
Dysfunction yeah, like a real,like a real, I'm like a real
family quote-unquote dysfunctionin the fact that that's a
normal dysfunction and that theyjust keep coming back to love
and they keep asking thequestions and the fact that
that's an adult show.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
So like, like in our generation I mean, we watched
and then our kids are watchingsitcoms and Disney and whatever,
and what I see a lot, cause Ihave two teen kids.
What I see a lot in the themesis kids operating independently,
Like their parents have no clue.
Their parents are completelyuninvolved in the things they're
(25:27):
doing, the conversationsthey're having.
There is no reference to wisdomor trusting in the parental
dynamic in the house.
And the weirdest thing to meI've talked to my kids about
this is the people that areplaying teenagers are like
20-somethings across the board.
There are no teenagers playingteenagers on TV.
They're all like 20-somethingadults playing junior high and
(25:52):
high school kids.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
I know right, I just saw a thing on TV shows.
It's so weird On Bridgerton, soI haven't finished watching the
last of them.
There's like two more I have toget through.
I mean, come on, no, probablytonight.
I know, I think it's a sexy, butit was really interesting
because they actually did onethat was like their ages, their
(26:14):
real ages to who their characterages were.
Yeah, um, and penelope is 37and she plays a 20 year old, 21
year old or something like that.
Right, yeah, and there's quitea few of them that are in their
30s, playing down to 20.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
Yeah, and there are 20 somethings playing 17 year
olds and I think the thechallenging part for me in that
is that then my 13 year old andmy 17, 18 year old is trying to
look like an adult, right, youknow what I mean, and I'm like
your body isn't even developedthat way yet, you know.
So it's.
It's very interesting.
Then we see it all over socialmedia, like we see it in the way
(26:54):
that kids are acting anddressing and makeup, being and I
mean like even my kids theylook older than they are a
hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
People see my kids and they're like oh my God, they
do not look their age.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
No, but part of that is also they don't act their age
.
No, but part of that is alsothey don't act their age right
like oh my god, I would never.
I would lydia yes, I wouldguess probably closer, but
roomie yeah that girl and thething is that, like lydia has
also looked, you know, so she'sfinally, she is an adult now, so
it's like she's.
It's like she's kind she's kindof catching up to her age.
(27:28):
Yeah, but yeah, rumi,definitely carries herself like
a much older person.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
I would never, I would never, I would never guess
yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
And part of that is, I mean, like, with unschooling
they've lived like adults in theworld.
You know, like it there hasn'tbeen a lot of coddling or a lot
of like I'll do that for you.
It's like you go to the bankand open your bank account.
You go talk to the person.
You know like I'm right therewith her, but it's like you can
call and set up your appointment, you can, you know.
So it's like, um, there's beena lot of moving in the world
(28:05):
learning how to be a functionaladult, and I think that that
impacts that as well.
But I'm not.
I mean, like they havedefinitely watched the shows
where the 20 somethings areplaying the teenagers and think
that's what a teenager lookslike.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
So yeah, I think we should do a different show, by
the way, at some point, onunschooling and parenting and
stuff.
We haven't done one on that, uhunschooling and parenting and
stuff.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
We haven't done one on that.
That's a big one there's been.
There's been one of the mentorsthat I follow shared that she
unschools and the amount ofvitririol and judgment and like
(28:52):
just really mean behavior fromgrown adults to me.
I'm like I mean this is theproblem with mainstream
schooling and like the processof indoctrination and
conditioning that there areadults who think you can get
(29:13):
just spill such anger towards acomplete stranger about the way
they choose to live their life.
(29:34):
Like why do you even why wouldsomeone have an opinion about
that?
Like just look away, go findpeople that you, you know, like
make you feel comfortableinternally or something I don't
know.
It's really an interesting.
I was just like, and it wasgreat for me, I think, to
experience it.
Because's really an interesting.
I was just like and it wasgreat for me, I think, to
experience it because that'sbeen a fear of mine is like what
if someone hates me?
And I experienced it and I'mlike oh yeah, that doesn't even
(29:57):
bother me, like I see it forwhat it is and it's actually
really helped me integrate alittle more confidence and like
fuck all for like people thatdon't agree with me, because
that's none of my businesseither.
You know, have your opinion, Idon't.
I just don't really have thetime or energy to care, mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
I think, because apparently we just did a show
anyway, even though we didn'tknow we were going to Right.
I feel like we could wrap ithere and I think I want to.
I feel like I wanted to.
The thing I think that was likea thread that came through all
of the randomness of this thatwasn't actually so random at all
is your thread and it comesthrough.
(30:39):
It comes through a lot from you,jamie is curiosity it's a word
you use a lot and, like you'dsaid, around the kids, around
our relationships, aroundpolarity, around, you know,
creating healthy boundaries andbeing sovereign within
relationships.
It is curiosity and I reallylove that thread that came
through today and that you know.
(31:00):
It doesn't matter where we arein our relating.
Again, whether it was myconversation around dating,
whether it's from now being in arelationship to whatever right
it's been like.
There's a curiosity of how dowe, how do I, how do I show up
here and be the fullestexperience of myself and have
you be the fullest experience ofyourself and this is in
(31:22):
friendship too, like Jamie and Ihere sitting here.
It's like how do we each showup and be the fullest expression
of ourselves and get to see theother side and get to play the
strength to both of us and in inintimate relationships with our
kids you know like it's a hugeone with my kids is like get
curious around.
(31:42):
Well, what's actually reallygoing on?
Speaker 2 (31:44):
You have to get curious, because if you think
you know you have lost theaccess to any alternative thing
and yeah, this will be a goodone actually, because, um, there
was a nobel peace prize awardedin 2022 that nobody, like it,
talks about, I sent it to youthat perceiver, perception,
(32:07):
something, uh, reality is notlocal right Like.
This is what curiosity does isit allows you to see other
potential outcomes versus if youalready know.
That's all you can see.
That's it.
You will never actually be ableto access the alternative
realities to the one that you'vechosen, so curiosity opens you
(32:29):
to all of that.
But yes, that is a much longerconversation.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
Yeah.
So next week I would actuallysay one of the questions that I
ask myself often to get intocuriosity when in relationship
dynamics, and then I think weshould end here I mean is that
the question I'll ask myself washow can we create a win-win
right?
It's like how can I, how can Iwin, how can you win and where's
middle ground?
Speaker 2 (32:53):
yes, in any relationship with your kids,
with your, everything always hasto come back to that right and
your boss, your co-worker right,like all of it is so yeah,
because it opens up topossibilities.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
Or like.
The other question would belike what's possible, what is
possible, right, instead ofgoing like it has to be this way
, it it's stuck this way.
We're in this place.
I'm here, you're there, blah,blah, blah, bitch, bitch, bitch.
It's like well, it could be, orwe could both win.
What else?
What else is possible that wecould both win?
Or that all four of us Causesometimes it's not just two,
sometimes it's four, sometimesit's eight, sometimes it's a
(33:27):
whole group of people how can wecreate a win for everybody
involved?
And so I think that's somethingwe could probably leave you
here with is like really startlooking around your life and ask
yourself, like where you havedynamic dynamics that aren't
working, or where you're feelingstuck, well, where's the win?
Where's?
How can I create a win out ofthis?
Whether it's at work, too, likewhether you're stuck, like I
don't know what to do, I'mbanging my head Well, where's
(33:47):
the win?
Where's?
Speaker 2 (33:49):
or what else is possible.
What else is possible will openup so many alternatives if
you're really honestly askingyourself that question.
Um, and it alleviates a lot oftension.
A lot of you know that like,yeah, stuck feeling, so I think
that's a great place to leaveeverybody today.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
On the show.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
We didn't know we were doing.
We will continue thisconversation on a you know
episode on curiosityspecifically.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Curiosity, parenting.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Yeah, and tell us if you want to hear something
specific, like we ping all overthe place, and if we ever say,
like a thread of somethingyou're like, I want more on that
, tell us because we willdefinitely go there.
Hope you all have a wonderfulrest of your day and thanks for
tuning in.
(34:43):
If you enjoyed this show, letus know.
We're all about authenticconnections, so come chat with
us on social media or email.
Links are listed in the shownotes.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
And please make sure to subscribe to the podcast on
your favorite platform and sharethe magic on your socials.
Welcome to redefining normal.
Join us as we questionconventional thinking and talk
about the courage it takes tocreate and live a deliciously
vibrant life.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
This podcast is for people who know there's a better
way to do life and love how weshow up in connection to others
our kids, our partners, ourbusiness and, beyond that, our
relationship with money,vitality and, more than anything
, ourselves.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
We're two shamelessly unapologetic moms choosing to
experience the fullness of life.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
And we're collapsing the conditioning that says you
can't live a life of pleasure,peace and abundance in the midst
of the mundane of life,responsibilities, work and kids.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Thank you for listening in.
Let's do this Today on the show.
Jamie and I hopped in from aconversation that we were just
having between ourselves whichis often how these shows start
and we were talking aboutrelationship dynamics and
polarity, and so that's what ourshow is about today.
So as you lean into this, enjoythe show what I've been
(01:05):
thinking about when you say this.
So Jamie and I were justtalking in case this actually
ends up as a thing.
We were just talking aboutpolarity between men and women
and women being the oracle forthe men and that they were,
generally speaking, more psychicand gifted in the other realms
(01:26):
in our clear senses.
And I said I don't think thatit actually is about that,
because we're not necessarilymore gifted.
It's just that we have thatinitial experience of it, but
all of us can.
And then you said somethingabout polarity and how there's
so many people teaching polaritythings, and it's what I wanted
to say.
And that was like I think it'sreally interesting that there
are these divides of where ithas to be like such strong
(01:49):
polarity ends to the spectrumand it's like the woman to
completely be in her submissiveand in her surrender and all
these things and the man'ssupposed to completely lead, and
I actually think sometimes itgets like really messy in this,
but also there's truth to it andI I think that every
relationship, though like and Ithink this is where the I think
(02:11):
fuzzy waters or the fuzzy linesgo is that every relationship is
different, Right?
So like it might not work forthat relationship that the man
wants to do it a certain way andthe woman wants to do it a
certain way and that they findtheir way together, and I think
that's where a lot of peoplekind of mess it up.
But in the meantime, I thinkthe other thing around leading
to from women to men is like wegive them the idea, but it's not
(02:35):
like you're voiceless, it'slike they're like I always, I
always say to my partner it'slike I will lead, I will follow
your lead as long as you'releading me to where I want to go
.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Right I've had that conversation with Kyle as well
that the leadership is inspiredby what I desire to create, or
at least in part.
You know like that it isconsiderate of that, but I'm not
going to, and this is actuallyso.
We were talking about the gymeven before this, but even at
(03:08):
the gym, I can feel thedifference between some like
when Kyle's like spotting me orguiding me or whatever when he's
doing something to my body,versus supporting my body in the
direction that I want it to go,and it's similar than in
leading for anything, what's up.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Sorry, you said something about the gym and then
the whole thing just crackedout.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
I would say so at the gym, because we've just started
working out together and solike he was spotting me or he
was like trying to show me howto do things, and I could feel
the difference between when hewas trying to move my body,
trying to do something to mybody and force it into something
, versus supporting my body todo what I wanted it to do,
(04:04):
wanted it to do, and they feltvery different and this I feel
like it speaks to.
What you're talking about islike if you're guiding me in
alignment with myself, I willfollow that a hundred percent.
If you are guiding me against myown knowing I can't, I can't,
and that's part of that dynamicand the responsibility is the
man to be guiding inconsideration and support of the
wellbeing of the whole.
(04:24):
And um, but even what you weretalking about, like polarity
coaching, um, is like makingmore room for that to be
beautiful too.
Like there are some spaceswhere it's like, yeah, very
polarized, right, like allfeminine for her very leadership
masculine oriented for him, allfeminine for her very
(04:47):
leadership masculine orientedfor him.
And where I sit with, that islike that's beautiful for those
two people that are looking forthat dynamic and want that
dynamic and are willing tocultivate that dynamic.
The trap that can happen issomeone who's in a place where
they maybe aren't experiencingwhat they want to in
relationship can outsource andbe like, oh, that must be what I
need to do in order to createor find what works, versus
(05:12):
staying internal and asking like, is that what I want?
Is that experience and thatdynamic?
What I want to create, first ofall and then second of all, you
know, like, like is is mypartner interested in that same
thing?
Versus like, oh, that's working, let me, let me do that.
That must be the quote, unquote, right way Um versus this, like
(05:34):
staying really centered in whatis in alignment for you, what
is correct for your desires, foryour purpose, for your whatever
.
And I've been guilty of doingthat, like I've seen things and
I'm like, oh wow, that soundsawesome, I want that versus I
want what is in my highest andbest, not what looks amazing and
(05:59):
beautiful for anotheralchemical equation of two
different people.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Totally.
It makes me think of like Idon't know the word like the
disharmony or the dysfunction inthat dynamic I think is the
word yeah, in that there's menin the world, and I was thinking
even as we were talking aboutthis, because for a man to lead,
that's, leading us to where wewant to go takes a high level
attunement to us to where wewant to go, takes a high level
(06:25):
attunement to to us, to us asthe woman, absolutely, and not
every man can do this, and thisis where I think the dysfunction
comes.
There's a lot of men who willlead to what they want, and then
a woman who doesn't have herown sovereignty and her own
inner reflection will followbecause they're like, oh, thank
god, there's a man who's leadingme, or, thank God, there's a
man who's caring for me, butit's not always that they're
(06:47):
caring for you, for what youwant.
They're caring for you fortheir own needs to be met, and
that I don't think is thehealthiest dynamic.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Realistically you can look at this.
There are men that overridetheir own knowing because she
wants what she wants, and so youknow it's like it goes both
ways their own knowing becauseshe wants what she wants, and so
you know it's like it goes bothways.
It goes both ways Totally.
Both of the individuals in arelationship are not attuned to
(07:17):
their own knowing.
But yeah, if there's, if there,if the two individuals aren't
insourced and being guided bytheir own connection to core,
then, yeah, it's really easy toget to override yourself in when
(07:38):
, especially when there'ssomeone in the dynamic or in the
room who is like I know how todo this, I know how to make it
work, and that should always be.
I know how to make it work forme and I need you to know how to
make it work for you, and thenwe work together to create
chemistry in that.
Yeah, because I loverelationships where they're very
(08:03):
equal.
I love relationships wherethere is no polarity.
I love relationships where thepolarity is inverted to
traditional roles, as long asboth people involved love it and
are intentionally co-creatingthat with each other, that there
is no like, right or wrong way.
Men should act, women shouldact and relationships should be.
(08:26):
And if you want that, anyspecific type of relationship,
find a partner who also wantsthat type of relationship.
Not trying to force a partnerbecause you've chosen them and
now you want them to accommodateyour relationship style, yeah,
or even doing it to yourself,right, relationship style.
(08:49):
Or even doing it to yourself,right, like I actually am more
suited to this type of dynamic,but now I see these people
saying this is the right way.
So maybe let me contort myselfto be more feminine or less
feminine, or whatever circleyou're in, whatever
conversations you're hearing isgoing to be different to what
you know, what your mind ispicking up and thinking.
You quote, unquote should bedoing A hundred percent.
I have an open head, and Ajnatoo, so I can really take on
(09:14):
ideas and be like oh wow, maybethat's the way this should work.
And so I have to be veryintentional about discerning
what I internalize versus what Ijust hear and acknowledge and
then come back to myself anddoes that, does that actually
resonate with me?
Is that in service to me in myhighest, and then let the rest
(09:35):
go, which has been a learningprocess to do that.
Yeah, it's easy to caught up init, it is, it is, especially
when your design is to just kindof, you know, be inspired by it
all, take it all and amplify it.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
There's two things that have come.
When you said that One isremind me I'm going to say happy
wife, happy life thing in asecond, but the thing that is
coming to me from this is beinga manifester, right?
So like being a manifester inthis so human design manifestor.
Um, you know this, it's beensuch a freaking hard journey,
like it's not been easy for mein dating, to understand how to
(10:13):
be a manifestor and stand in myown truth, which is to initiate.
Right, it's the completeopposite of what people would
teach you in polarity school.
It's like I'm not supposed tobe the initiator, I'm not
supposed to be the one drivingthe relationship.
I I'm not, but like it doesn'tmatter what I do, naturally I
initiate like you just come intomy field, jamie, I'll say it, I
fucking initiate all the damntime.
(10:34):
Yeah, and as a generator.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
I love all of that energy to respond to.
I'm like Ooh yes, Ooh, yes, Ilike this, I'll do that.
You know, it's like havingsomeone offering continual
something to respond to isamazing Right, but in the world
of dating it was really it is.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
It has been a really big challenge for me because I
also get really frustrated inthe wait.
I'm like, oh God, do I have towait for him to fucking do this?
I have to wait for him to pickthe date.
I have to wait for him and I'mlike because in me, in my world,
I'm already done, I've alreadythe dates picked, the things
done, the time right, but I haveto wait and let him lead.
And in the dating, in thedating pool, I say like for me
(11:17):
it has been work on that,because if I totally come in and
castrate and like, don't givethem yeah, and they don't feel
that doesn't feel good either.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
No no.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
This balance of and what I'm, what I've learned, is
like again.
It's like this informing ofwhat I want, yeah, and then they
get to take it from there,Exactly yeah.
So I inform, which is my job asa manifester, and then they
take it from there.
It's Um.
It's really funny because uhcan't say the name.
Um, my partner doesn't know yet.
I haven't actually said this tohim yet, but like one day he
(11:47):
said to me he said it to memultiple times.
He's like I love your ideas,carrie, and I'm like, yeah, I
just.
It just makes me smile becauseI have obviously in this, in
this situation, being able tofind somebody who I land the
ideas and then he runs with them.
He always he's like he'll runwith them or he won't.
He'll be like I don't, butgenerally speaking, he loves the
(12:07):
ideas and the way that I'vestarted to be able to land
things with him doesn't feelcastrating.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Right, and so it's been.
This journey, like on thedating place and this is what
you were talking about is likeliving into who we are but then
also letting other people be whothey are, yeah, and, and
actually that probably does leadinto the happy wife, happy life
.
So I talked about it in it endswith me, um, my book, and I
talk about the fact that sooften as men, they they have
(12:40):
that saying I don't know, do wehave it here in America or is it
really more Australian Happywife, happy life, yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
That's the thing, yeah, but it becomes like
resentful.
It's like I don't want this,but I got to do whatever she
wants in order to Right.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
And this is what my point is is there's a lot of
people in the world, there's alot of men in the world, who are
doing this role.
And this is what my point is isthere's a lot of people in the
world, there's a lot of men inthe world who are doing this
role.
The happy wife, happy life yeah, and so nobody's happy no, and
then they end up people pleasing, yeah, and then no one feels
good.
Like that was part of the endof Hugh and I was like.
I was like stop, stop doinganything that you need to do to
please me.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
That doesn't actually please you.
Yeah, let's see if thisactually works, right, like.
But people are afraid of thehonest truth of that.
Like, what if it doesn't work?
Oh my God, what am I going todo, you know?
So there is some courage inletting the truth of that come
to the surface.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Because you guess what it might end.
Right, right, right.
But if it ends by the way, youmight find something even better
.
A lot Right.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
And if it doesn't end , you also find something better
.
I mean, like it's the same withKyle and I.
We had to get really honest,like if we're both our true
selves.
Does this work?
And we ended up in a placewhere it did.
You know, so it's like, but weboth had to be willing to know
(13:57):
that it might not.
In order to get here, wecouldn't be attached to a
specific outcome, so you still?
Speaker 1 (14:03):
you still aren't attached to it.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
No, no, yeah exactly.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
You're still like we're both going to be who we
are and until the day that wecan't be, yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Until the day that that doesn't work.
To do things in the equationthat we are, yeah, but even it's
like making room for that makesit more and more easy to know
or to feel secure in.
No matter what I do, no matterwhat direction I go, he's still
going to be a supporter.
He's still going to be there,maybe not in the same capacity
(14:33):
or definition or dynamic, buthe's always going to be there
and and I'm not attached to that, it's like I'm okay if he's not
, and that's actually what makesroom for him to be the pair.
The irony of it, you know.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Because ultimately in relationship like and I think
this is a big, a big thing thatreally doesn't get talked about
is that men want freedom Like weall do.
Big, a big thing that reallydoesn't get talked about is that
men want freedom like we all do, but I think, especially for a
man they really want freedom andmost women we like smother them
.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Yeah we smother them.
It makes us feel safer, likeright, if I can control
everything, then I don't need tobe uncomfortable and I can't
live without you, so I can't letyou do all these things.
In case you might leave me,because and I mean like that
existed, meant to.
There are anxious, attached menwho like smother and control.
Similarly, it's you know, itlooks different, probably in
(15:29):
relationship, but um, the energycan, yeah, exist on the other
side as well, and it is.
Is it's a fear?
It's a it's fear of abandonment, fear of um well, I mean, you
name it, whatever your wound isyou know, trying to avoid that.
So but where were you goingwith the?
Um, happy wife, happy life.
(15:50):
Was there more?
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Oh yeah, it was just kind of kind of more like this
whole thing around.
Like that, we need to besovereign in our own selves and
we need to be able to uh, showup in the true authenticity
authenticity of our desires.
And what I'm finding in mycurrent relationship is that,
the more that we do, there'salways a middle ground somehow,
(16:17):
right, and if and if there isn't, if there's too many places
where there isn't like, thenit's probably not the right
place.
Yeah, that is valuableinformation too.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Like you need to be able to know that in order to
create a healthy dynamic youhave to be also open to the fact
that this person may not beable to co-create that with you.
But I think when we live in asociety that's like find a
partner and then that's it, likeyou got to find them and you
(16:59):
capacity to be true to whatworks for you and what doesn't
work for you.
But I think even in thosedynamics, if everybody can come
back to self-acceptance andacceptance of other, you can
make anything work right.
Like you make room for theother person's truths as well,
(17:20):
as far out or unrecognizable toyou as they may be.
If you can create like honorfor that other person's reality
too, there there is, there's awide space for middle ground
when you can do that.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Hmm, yes, and then everybody's happier.
Yeah, you know, and I think it'sinteresting if I come at like
this people pleasing thing againand happy wife, happy life,
like it's almost even as we'vetalked about it, I feel the um,
um, I can feel like the lashingat men for going to work,
(18:01):
providing, not being around forthe kids.
Yeah, you know, like this wholething of like, oh, they have it
easy, there's a lot of women whowill say, oh, they have it easy
, yeah, right, or like theydon't have to do anything, or
then they come home and I makedinner for them and I've got to
do all these.
You know, whatever, whateverthe thing is Cause it's a very I
hear it often right, and it'sinteresting because in that,
(18:27):
like I hear on the other side ofit now, as people who are my
clients as been on dates,listening to people's marriages
or their relationships and allthese things, I'm like man.
I actually have a lot ofcompassion for the men, because
a lot of these guys, they go outand do this and they literally
like, like, they burn themselvesout to the point where so many
(18:51):
of them end up with heartattacks yeah, huge illnesses,
right, because they have putthemselves out and they've
burned themselves out for somany years looking after a
family and so often it's justtaken for granted.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Right, I mean like think about this If we both did
this, if women could hold morecompassion for the men in their
lives and if men could holdcompassion for the experience of
the women in our lives.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Right, because Because both are hard, and I'm
saying this going like they eachhave their respective
challenges.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
You know, and it's so easy to be like mine's harder.
You don't even know, they don'tand we don't.
But we can have compassion andcuriosity for the lived
experience of the other andthat's what creates that wide.
You know't know your livedexperience, but I can still hold
curiosity and compassion for it.
(19:52):
You know, like I didn'texperience it the same way, but
it's kind of bullshit to be like, yeah well, that wasn't how it
worked for me, so you know youshould be doing it different.
That doesn't work for anybody.
No, Right.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
I think I also want to go back and even in this like
piece here, like put a littlelike tick mark, because I can
hear, I can hear the people whoare like, but I work a job and I
come home and I da, da, da daas a woman, right, and I'm not
talking about that Like if it isa really totally like miss,
miss, balanced thing where, likeyou, are out and working and
taking care of an entire houseand your partner and those
(20:27):
things exist as well, like thatexists and that's a conversation
, right, and that's aconversation between you two,
and you're right, like thereneeds to be a different dynamic
around that and like oftentimesthere's a lot, of, a lot of
people who are in that polar,that dynamic of the woman stays
home and the man goes to work.
And yes, we do want theirsupport in that way, and this is
(20:49):
also the decision you two made.
So it's like, how do you findyour way through it and actually
have a lot of love andcompassion for him too, because
he is playing the role thatyou're asking him to play, and
what, if?
Speaker 2 (20:59):
what if?
Well, or there's gotta be morecommunication Cause I think it's
like, if you're not happy, um,in the role, whatever role that
may be, working, not working,working full time, making equal
pay, whatever right, like it'slike if you're unhappy, the
discussion has to be had, andnot from a place of blame and
(21:20):
resentment, but from love andfrom finding common ground, and
I think that's the piece that'smissing so often.
Is that it that the conversationcomes from a place of
resentment and blame and likeit's like they are fighting each
other versus.
We're on the same side here andwe're trying to co-create
(21:42):
something that makes both of ushappy, and not pitting each
other, like pitting yourselfagainst the other, but actually
seeing them as the partner thatyou've chosen to be with.
You know, and I think that if,if, if you can't have that
conversation, then the questionbecomes is is this a
(22:04):
relationship worth being in,right, like?
I think that the, the, thewrong questions and the wrong um
, not even wrong Right, cause Idon't I don't love that word but
like, um, or not helpfulquestions are being asked.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
The quality of life is based on the quality of
questions that you ask.
So if you ask good questions,you'll get the good answers.
And I say we're saying good andbad.
Right, I've got quotes here.
But like there are really goodquestions that you can ask,
they'll ask.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Like that, a lot of people will avoid because
they're not the questions thatwe hear every day all around us,
is the, is the.
I think part of the challengeLike, like we always talk about,
the norm is pitting man againstwoman.
They don't understand us,they're bullshit, and there is
both the men or the women,depending on which side you're
(22:59):
on, and I think it's not evenmen and women like the, the.
They don't understand me.
Across any divide is problematic, is creating more separation
and is not getting us closer tounderstanding ourself and other
on a deeper level, but that'swhat we're fed.
(23:20):
I mean like.
If you look at any TV show, any, I mean like can you name any
TV shows where the familydynamics are super healthy and
the, the, the parents, are in ahealthy, loving, functional
relationship and there'scommunication and there's
(23:40):
respect and there's cooperation?
You know it's like we, we areshown a really dysfunctional
picture of relating and marriageand family, and so it's up to
us to not replicate what'smodeled for us, but to ask
deeper questions that are not inthe realm of normal.
(24:04):
And actually, what do I want tocreate and what questions are
going to help me create?
That is is how you changeanything really.
I love that seriously, can youthink of?
Speaker 1 (24:19):
any, the one, the only one that's come to my mind
is the Netflix series.
This Is Us.
Uh-huh.
It feels like the most real,raw, like even in their
dysfunction there's function.
Mm-hmm, because there's justthe love.
Like, how do we come back toeach other?
How do we make this work?
(24:40):
How do we figure this out?
Yeah, and I feel like thatmessy is probably one of the
best and it's probably why itwas such a loved show.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Right.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Is because it's probably one of the best, most
real, without being likehollywood.
Dysfunction yeah, like a real,like a real, I'm like a real
family quote-unquote dysfunctionin the fact that that's a
normal dysfunction and that theyjust keep coming back to love
and they keep asking thequestions and the fact that
that's an adult show.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
So like, like in our generation I mean, we watched
and then our kids are watchingsitcoms and Disney and whatever,
and what I see a lot, cause Ihave two teen kids.
What I see a lot in the themesis kids operating independently,
Like their parents have no clue.
Their parents are completelyuninvolved in the things they're
(25:27):
doing, the conversationsthey're having.
There is no reference to wisdomor trusting in the parental
dynamic in the house.
And the weirdest thing to meI've talked to my kids about
this is the people that areplaying teenagers are like
20-somethings across the board.
There are no teenagers playingteenagers on TV.
They're all like 20-somethingadults playing junior high and
(25:52):
high school kids.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
I know right, I just saw a thing on TV shows.
It's so weird On Bridgerton, soI haven't finished watching the
last of them.
There's like two more I have toget through.
I mean, come on, no, probablytonight.
I know, I think it's a sexy, butit was really interesting
because they actually did onethat was like their ages, their
(26:14):
real ages to who their characterages were.
Yeah, um, and penelope is 37and she plays a 20 year old, 21
year old or something like that.
Right, yeah, and there's quitea few of them that are in their
30s, playing down to 20.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
Yeah, and there are 20 somethings playing 17 year
olds and I think the thechallenging part for me in that
is that then my 13 year old andmy 17, 18 year old is trying to
look like an adult, right, youknow what I mean, and I'm like
your body isn't even developedthat way yet, you know.
So it's.
It's very interesting.
Then we see it all over socialmedia, like we see it in the way
(26:54):
that kids are acting anddressing and makeup, being and I
mean like even my kids theylook older than they are a
hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
People see my kids and they're like oh my God, they
do not look their age.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
No, but part of that is also they don't act their age
.
No, but part of that is alsothey don't act their age right
like oh my god, I would never.
I would lydia yes, I wouldguess probably closer, but
roomie yeah that girl and thething is that, like lydia has
also looked, you know, so she'sfinally, she is an adult now, so
it's like she's.
It's like she's kind she's kindof catching up to her age.
(27:28):
Yeah, but yeah, rumi,definitely carries herself like
a much older person.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
I would never, I would never, I would never guess
yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
And part of that is, I mean, like, with unschooling
they've lived like adults in theworld.
You know, like it there hasn'tbeen a lot of coddling or a lot
of like I'll do that for you.
It's like you go to the bankand open your bank account.
You go talk to the person.
You know like I'm right therewith her, but it's like you can
call and set up your appointment, you can, you know.
So it's like, um, there's beena lot of moving in the world
(28:05):
learning how to be a functionaladult, and I think that that
impacts that as well.
But I'm not.
I mean, like they havedefinitely watched the shows
where the 20 somethings areplaying the teenagers and think
that's what a teenager lookslike.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
So yeah, I think we should do a different show, by
the way, at some point, onunschooling and parenting and
stuff.
We haven't done one on that, uhunschooling and parenting and
stuff.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
We haven't done one on that.
That's a big one there's been.
There's been one of the mentorsthat I follow shared that she
unschools and the amount ofvitririol and judgment and like
(28:52):
just really mean behavior fromgrown adults to me.
I'm like I mean this is theproblem with mainstream
schooling and like the processof indoctrination and
conditioning that there areadults who think you can get
(29:13):
just spill such anger towards acomplete stranger about the way
they choose to live their life.
(29:34):
Like why do you even why wouldsomeone have an opinion about
that?
Like just look away, go findpeople that you, you know, like
make you feel comfortableinternally or something I don't
know.
It's really an interesting.
I was just like, and it wasgreat for me, I think, to
experience it.
Because's really an interesting.
I was just like and it wasgreat for me, I think, to
experience it because that'sbeen a fear of mine is like what
if someone hates me?
And I experienced it and I'mlike oh yeah, that doesn't even
(29:57):
bother me, like I see it forwhat it is and it's actually
really helped me integrate alittle more confidence and like
fuck all for like people thatdon't agree with me, because
that's none of my businesseither.
You know, have your opinion, Idon't.
I just don't really have thetime or energy to care, mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
I think, because apparently we just did a show
anyway, even though we didn'tknow we were going to Right.
I feel like we could wrap ithere and I think I want to.
I feel like I wanted to.
The thing I think that was likea thread that came through all
of the randomness of this thatwasn't actually so random at all
is your thread and it comesthrough.
(30:39):
It comes through a lot from you,jamie is curiosity it's a word
you use a lot and, like you'dsaid, around the kids, around
our relationships, aroundpolarity, around, you know,
creating healthy boundaries andbeing sovereign within
relationships.
It is curiosity and I reallylove that thread that came
through today and that you know.
(31:00):
It doesn't matter where we arein our relating.
Again, whether it was myconversation around dating,
whether it's from now being in arelationship to whatever right
it's been like.
There's a curiosity of how dowe, how do I, how do I show up
here and be the fullestexperience of myself and have
you be the fullest experience ofyourself and this is in
(31:22):
friendship too, like Jamie and Ihere sitting here.
It's like how do we each showup and be the fullest expression
of ourselves and get to see theother side and get to play the
strength to both of us and in inintimate relationships with our
kids you know like it's a hugeone with my kids is like get
curious around.
(31:42):
Well, what's actually reallygoing on?
Speaker 2 (31:44):
You have to get curious, because if you think
you know you have lost theaccess to any alternative thing
and yeah, this will be a goodone actually, because, um, there
was a nobel peace prize awardedin 2022 that nobody, like it,
talks about, I sent it to youthat perceiver, perception,
(32:07):
something, uh, reality is notlocal right Like.
This is what curiosity does isit allows you to see other
potential outcomes versus if youalready know.
That's all you can see.
That's it.
You will never actually be ableto access the alternative
realities to the one that you'vechosen, so curiosity opens you
(32:29):
to all of that.
But yes, that is a much longerconversation.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
Yeah.
So next week I would actuallysay one of the questions that I
ask myself often to get intocuriosity when in relationship
dynamics, and then I think weshould end here I mean is that
the question I'll ask myself washow can we create a win-win
right?
It's like how can I, how can Iwin, how can you win and where's
middle ground?
Speaker 2 (32:53):
yes, in any relationship with your kids,
with your, everything always hasto come back to that right and
your boss, your co-worker right,like all of it is so yeah,
because it opens up topossibilities.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
Or like.
The other question would belike what's possible, what is
possible, right, instead ofgoing like it has to be this way
, it it's stuck this way.
We're in this place.
I'm here, you're there, blah,blah, blah, bitch, bitch, bitch.
It's like well, it could be, orwe could both win.
What else?
What else is possible that wecould both win?
Or that all four of us Causesometimes it's not just two,
sometimes it's four, sometimesit's eight, sometimes it's a
(33:27):
whole group of people how can wecreate a win for everybody
involved?
And so I think that's somethingwe could probably leave you
here with is like really startlooking around your life and ask
yourself, like where you havedynamic dynamics that aren't
working, or where you're feelingstuck, well, where's the win?
Where's?
How can I create a win out ofthis?
Whether it's at work, too, likewhether you're stuck, like I
don't know what to do, I'mbanging my head Well, where's
(33:47):
the win?
Where's?
Speaker 2 (33:49):
or what else is possible.
What else is possible will openup so many alternatives if
you're really honestly askingyourself that question.
Um, and it alleviates a lot oftension.
A lot of you know that like,yeah, stuck feeling, so I think
that's a great place to leaveeverybody today.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
On the show.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
We didn't know we were doing.
We will continue thisconversation on a you know
episode on curiosityspecifically.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Curiosity, parenting.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Yeah, and tell us if you want to hear something
specific, like we ping all overthe place, and if we ever say,
like a thread of somethingyou're like, I want more on that
, tell us because we willdefinitely go there.
Hope you all have a wonderfulrest of your day and thanks for
tuning in.
(34:43):
If you enjoyed this show, letus know.
We're all about authenticconnections, so come chat with
us on social media or email.
Links are listed in the shownotes.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
And please make sure to subscribe to the podcast on
your favorite platform and sharethe magic on your socials.
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