October 2, 2023 • 35 mins
Change is certain, but the middle between reality and where we want to be can be MESSY.
It's a "Messy Middle".
Listen to this episode to learn more about the "Messy Middle" as well as some strategies you can try to make it to the other side.
=== RESOURCES ===
Create a Life You Love - Click HERE for FREE Download
FREE Discovery Call - Click HERE to email Kortney for availability
Navigating the "Messy Middle" isn't easy, but I can help. Let's talk about how. No obligation and the simple action of booking a call could change your life!
Want more?
For more information about the podcast, visit www.realbraveunstoppable.com. To learn more about your host, Kortney Rivard, visit www.kortneyrivard.com
Follow Kortney on Social media:
Instagram
Facebook
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hello and welcome friends toepisode 116 of Real, Brave,
(00:07):
Unstoppable, on living in thequote-unquote messy middle.
Or navigating the gap betweenthe way things are and the way
you want things to be.
I was coaching a client lastweek who recently, got back
together with her partner aftersome time apart.
And she's got a lot of feelingsof betrayal and hurt.
Also has a hard time trustingthat her partner will really
(00:29):
show up for her in the way thatshe needs and wants him to.
I coach a lot of people on thiskind of thing.
The, should I stay or should Igo question?
It's really a difficult thing tocoach people through because
they tend to want to set a goalaround making a decision, but
making these types of decisionsis really hard and
uncomfortable.
And what tends to happen is thatbeing in indecision in a
(00:52):
relationship usually means thatone person has like a backdoor.
In case things get rough there'san exit.
So we talked through this backdoor or like safety valve.
And she mentioned that shestarts to go there when there's
a problem in the relationship.
So, having a backdoor is like away of avoiding the discomfort
(01:12):
that comes with a problem.
Now, caveat, I'm not talkingabout abusive relationships or
relationships that I've reallytruly run their course and
things just aren't solvable anylonger.
I'm just talking about, youknow, normal conflict.
When things get sticky, ourbrain is like, no, get out.
This doesn't feel good.
You're supposed to feel good.
(01:34):
And flipping between I'm in andI'm out creates this like
distance in a relationship, andso learning how to live in this
like messy, middle of feelinguncomfortable can feel really
hard.
And by the way, this episode isnot solely on relationships.
This can apply to anything andwe'll talk about some other
examples in just a minute.
So, what is this messy middle,or sometimes I'll refer to it as
(01:58):
"the gap".
But, the messy middle is thespace between the way things
are, like reality, and the wayyou want things to be.
So our human tendency is to bedoing whatever we need to do to
close that gap.
So, you know, we feel discomfortwhen things aren't the way we
want them to be.
So there's discomfort on one endof it, and we'd rather not feel
(02:19):
that.
So we do what we need to do toget rid of the discomfort.
It's kind of like, we want tojust give up all the patience
and skip the journey from oneend of the gap to the other...
we just want to arrive.
I mean, let's face it feelinguncomfortable, whether that
shows up as an uncomfortableemotion or just physically feels
uncomfortable, like that kind ofsucks.
(02:39):
Right?
So, you know, no one wants tofeel crappy or uncomfortable and
it's natural to want to avoidthat feeling rather than lean
into it.
Not being where we want to be iswhat creates that uncomfortable
feeling.
I quote this a lot on the show,but author Pema Chodron says
that the reason we suffer isbecause we cling to the way we
(02:59):
want things to be or the way wethink things should be.
When we're attached to thatoutcome and we don't get it, we
feel bad, you know, maybe badhas kind of a umbrella emotion.
It's one of the ones we go to,but what does, you know, a bad
can be sad.
We might feel inadequate,resentful, frustrated and so on.
(03:20):
By the way it's really helpfulto...
there's a website calledfeelingswheel.com.
Like a wheel, like on a carfeelings wheel.com.
It has a feelings wheel that haslike the major emotions in the
middle and then different, likeit just kind of nuanced emotions
as you go farther and fartherout the wheel.
(03:40):
It's super helpful.
I highly recommend if you wantto dive into some of this work
it can be really helpful to justto know some of the more nuanced
emotions instead of just bad,sad, mad.
Anyway.
So when we feel thoseuncomfortable emotions or
unwanted emotions, you know, alot of times we hook into them
cause we judge them as bad.
I don't want to, I don't want tofeel this.
(04:01):
And pretty soon they're startingto run the show.
They dictate our behavior orlike, you know, how we show up
to life.
And, I'm going to give you somemore examples of this gap.
I used the relationship gapabove as an example, but other
examples could be, let's say youinterviewed for a job and you're
waiting to hear about it.
So you experienced anxiety orworry, maybe stress over not
(04:23):
knowing.
So that messy middle is thespace between not knowing and
wanting to know.
Right?
So once you know the feeling ofanxiety or whatever it goes
away, and if you don't get thejob, then it's just a new,
different, messy middle.
Intense conversations where twopeople don't agree, the messy
middle is between your opinionand wanting someone to agree
(04:44):
with you.
The tension that comes withhaving something unresolved is
uncomfortable for most people.
Related to health, wanting tolose weight could be an example.
Like if you don't like yourbody, you feel really sluggish,
low energy and want to be inbetter shape, like what you see
in the mirror, have more energy,be happy with your fitness
level.
The messy middle is thediscomfort that you feel when
(05:06):
you wish you were different.
I think that's a really goodexample.
'cause it, it illustrates likehow accepting yourself.
on that journey so important andthat's kind of what this all is.
It's like accepting that middle.
It doesn't mean it won't change,but you're just accepting what
you're working with at the time.
(05:28):
There's one more example.
I had a client the other day,who is experiencing sadness over
the realization that she wouldlikely never be a parent and her
messy middle is really thesadness that she feels from the
gap is between not having kidsand wanting kids.
It's that wanting or wishing shecould, but knowing she probably
won't have them.
(05:50):
So the, the gap or the messymiddle is kind of like a...
it's almost like a limbo land orsometimes I call it a swamp.
Also I have tons of greatmetaphors or words for this
space.
But it's kind of like limbobecause we're dealing with some
uncomfortable stuff thattypically we want to get out of.
So our brain is alerting usconstantly to the fact that.
(06:13):
We're not where we want to be orwhere we should be.
Quote-unquote.
And then we have all kinds ofthoughts about that too.
And then that creates moreuncomfortable emotions and we
have to be really intentionalabout this place.
That doesn't feel good.
It's really natural that thismessy feeling or uncomfortable
gap exists.
Our brains, you know, we don'tlike uncertainty.
(06:33):
Interestingly enough,uncertainty is actually a human
need.
The need for surprise andnovelty.
Otherwise life gets stagnant andboring.
That's just a side note, but wereally like to control how much
of, how much uncertainty we havein our lives.
So when things are uncertain, weget really uncomfortable.
So think about it when you havesomething to talk to a partner
(06:54):
about, and you're a littlescared to like broach that
subject because you're notreally sure how he or she will
react, or you're up forpromotion and it's uncertain as
to whether or not you'll get it,you just had a disagreement with
a friend and you don't know howthings are going to end up.
Those are all examples ofuncomfortable situations that we
might find ourselves in.
(07:15):
And also, anytime we encountersomething new in life, like new
people, new activities, newenvironments, we might feel
varying degrees of discomfort.
It's uncomfortable to get out ofyour comfort zone, duh,
obviously, right?
And I also know that in thesemoments, this is where the
growth happens.
You gain confidence that you cannavigate that middle space or
(07:39):
the gap in spite of thediscomfort.
You learn to trust yourresilience?
You learn to dig deep and findresources you didn't realize you
had.
And go back and listen toepisode number 114 about chaos
for more on that really goodepisode.
So, back to this messy, middlewe're talking about here, what
(08:01):
does it look like?
What is the gap look like andhow do we navigate this?
Well, it can be a short gap.
Or it can be a long gap.
Meaning, it can be a gap in amoment between feeling an
emotion an emotionally drivenreaction.
It can look like a long gapwhere you're having to wait to
know what an outcome is going tobe.
(08:22):
And it can be somewhere inbetween those two as well.
It can look like the emotionthat comes up when your partner
triggers you.
Sitting with that.
It can look like feeling ashamedthat you acted out at someone.
Feeling bad about yourselfbecause you didn't do something
perfectly.
It can look like feelingunsettled because there's an
unresolved issue in ourrelationship or overwhelming
(08:44):
worry, because you have too muchon your to-do list.
Sadness because you suffered aloss of some sort.
Feeling unimportant in arelationship.
All of these things are spaceswhere we just don't feel the way
we want to feel.
But here's the thing about themessy middle is that no one
likes it.
Duh.
It doesn't feel good.
(09:05):
So we kind of tend to make it anenemy.
You know, we judge it.
We make the feelings we feel inthat messy middle the bad guy.
And we become all about avoidingthat.
So what's wrong with that?
You ask avoiding, there'snothing wrong with it because
sometimes we need a break from areally hard emotion.
But what happens over time isthat we get in the habit of
(09:28):
avoiding whatever thatexperience is and in coaching
and psychology we call thatexperiential avoidance.
But when that becomes a habit,it doesn't really serve us over
the long-term.
So, you know, when we do feel anemotion, we don't like, so for
example, we feel the feelings offrustration or anger come up in
a conversation and we mightsnap.
(09:48):
The snap will create a newemotion, but it's helped to
relieve that initial one.
So maybe you feel feelings ofshame because you disappointed
someone.
So to avoid the feeling ofshame, you go into people
pleasing or fixing.
So you're not disappointing thatperson anymore.
Your brain tells you that aslong as you fix it, you won't
have to feel that awful feelingof shame.
(10:11):
Now the interesting thing is youcan imagine if you go into
people pleasing mode and you'reoverextending yourself to make
sure you don't disappointeveryone, then you have all
kinds of different emotions thatcome up, but you know, that
might come with stress oranxiety or something like that.
So the thing is, the pointyou're you maybe are catching
(10:31):
onto this as I'm talking here.
But there's always going to be ahard emotion.
Even if you avoid one, you don'tlike, or, you know, if you avoid
a situation, you don't like,there's always going to be a
hard situation.
So you might as well learn howto, how to exist in this gap.
I have a client that's workingon her relationship with her
(10:53):
parents and her mom is a littlebit emotionally immature.
And my client often gets reallyannoyed with her.
Her avoidance mechanism is towithdraw and create this
boundary with her mom, which isfine, however, and, and, and,
you know, healthy, however,after further discussion, we
figured out she was reallyletting her annoyance dictate
how she showed up for her mom,which was withdrawing.
(11:16):
And it helped her avoid furtherannoyance, which is sometimes
totally appropriate.
But the key part of this is thatthe emotion was actually
dictating how she showed up.
So when we explored this alittle more, we realized that
she didn't want to sit with thatemotion of annoyance.
And if she was able to hold thatwithout judgment, she could
decide how she wanted to handlethe situation from a more
(11:37):
objective standpoint that was inline with her values.
Like what's important in how sheshows up for her mom without
letting being annoyed, run theshow.
So it's really important to beable to acknowledge the
emotions.
Well, first notice them.
And then actually justacknowledge them.
And we'll talk about that indetail in a minute, but it's
(11:58):
also really important tonormalize them or neutralize
them because what happens.
Is that we get into judgment ofthem.
Labeling them good or bad, andthat doesn't help us make space
for them.
And that that's what helps that.
That's what pushes us to avoidthem.
So, how do we make space for allof the crap that's in the messy
(12:21):
middle?
How do we lean into whatever itis that shows up there?
Well, this is like so much ofthis is a practice.
It's not always easy and youwill never ever get it perfect.
So the first thing we start withis awareness.
I always say awareness is halfthe battle and it really is.
(12:41):
So why is this messy middlehard?
Because we have a judgment thatit's hard and negative and
unwanted.
Well, of course, it's going tosuck if we look at it that way.
Right?
So being in the space is reallyuncomfortable.
Like I we've...
you're you're figuring that outas I talk, I'm sure I've said
that many times, but thejudgment that it's bad creates
(13:02):
feelings that feel bad.
So let's talk about somestrategies for embracing this
discomfort or at least acceptingit and leaning into it.
So the first is acceptance ofthe discomfort.
You can think of this asacceptance of an entire
situation or parts of it thatare out of your control.
Or you can also think of it alittle more granularly.
(13:26):
Like as willingness to makespace or willingness to feel an
uncomfortable emotion orphysical feeling or unhelpful
thought even.
So let's talk about how to dothis.
And I'm going to talk about thison a more granular level, like
how to accept unwanted emotions,because this is really the
foundation or like the buildingblock of accepting bigger things
(13:48):
in situations.
So one of my favorite ways tostop fighting this messy middle
space is something I call thethree ends.
Notice name and neutralize ornormalize.
Notice as simply tuning in tothe present moment and noticing
what you're thinking, whatyou're feeling, what you're
doing.
Just what what's present.
(14:10):
Naming is simply naming theemotion or unhelpful thought.
Language is really importanthere.
So listen up instead of, forexample, saying to yourself, I'm
angry, you really want to shiftthat to like noticing the
experience of it.
Like, so the L the languagemight look like I'm noticing the
feeling of anger, or I noticeI'm having some angry feelings.
(14:34):
Or there's angry, or I'mnoticing that I'm feeling angry.
Um, say them, say those, youknow, say both ways out to hear
a loud to yourself.
Like I'm angry versus I'mnoticing the feeling of anger.
Like say those out loud toyourself, like take a minute and
do it right now.
And do you notice thedifference?
It feels a little less heavy.
(14:55):
It's more like I'm a client.
That I was working on with thisthe other day said.
It seems a little more transientwhen you say it that way.
And I loved how we describedthat because yeah, it feels like
when you say I noticed anger.
It's just like, oh, there'sanger.
There might be something elsecoming soon.
I don't know.
But it just, it feels like it'snot like I'm angry.
(15:18):
Just feels like whoa.
..Pretty big, right.
So neutralizing or another wayto look at it as normalizing.
It's really just creating areally neutral stance from which
you see this emotion.
It's like acknowledging thatit's okay to feel this way.
It's validating yourself forhaving the feeling like, it
(15:40):
makes sense.
So I would have this feeling, ofcourse, I feel angry.
So-and-so just really hurt me.
Like of course I feel hurt or ofcourse I felt frustrated.
Anyone would feel that way.
Given what's happened.
you know, really validatingyourself for having the feeling.
It's just what you're workingwith right now.
No judgment, nothing to fixhere.
You don't need to fix theemotion.
(16:00):
You don't need to.
Go to great lengths to changeit.
It's going to change on its own.
Just let it do its thing.
So let's work with an example.
My partner and I had a prettybig argument the other day.
One of many over the last coupleof weeks, so much fun.
I was really angry at him aswell as really frustrated at how
(16:21):
invalidating he was to me.
And I noticed that I was feelingreally jittery.
Like there was like, like thefirst thing that I like to do is
really when I'm trying topractice this is really get into
my body.
Like I felt like there was ahole in my chest and in my
stomach.
Um, and then I noticed emotionslike anger, frustration,
sadness, and even like defeat.
(16:42):
So following this framework, youknow, I noticed, I noticed it.
I was just told you what Inoticed.
And then naming looks like Inotice anger.
I also notice some frustrationand sadness and I notice I'm
feeling a sense of defeat.
I'm also noticing some physicalsensations, like a pit in my
stomach and a hole, like a holein my chest.
(17:03):
And I'm also noticing I have alittle anxiety.
Or I'm experiencing a littleanxiety.
That's what that looks like.
And the neutralizing ornormalizing might look like.
Yeah, these emotions are normal.
We just had a pretty bigargument.
I don't agree with things hesaid, and he refuses to listen
to what I have to say.
And he said some pretty meanthings to me.
(17:24):
So of course I would feel thesethings and it's okay to feel
that way.
Makes sense.
And, also the goal here, like Isaid before is not to judge our
experience or to feel the needto fix it or push unwanted
emotions away.
So if I notice I'm wanting to dothat, I might really focus on
sticking with the emotions oreven the physical part of it.
(17:45):
You know, really leaning intothem and making a point to feel
them.
Or even the physical sensationsI'm experiencing.
Not easy to do all the timebecause it is uncomfortable.
And most of us have been taughtto avoid what doesn't feel good.
I mean, that's pretty normal,right?
Yes, totally normal.
Another thing that's helpful tothink about here is working on
(18:07):
adopting more of a growth typemindset.
Um, I mentioned that the goal ofacceptance is well to accept,
not to judge or fix something toavoid feeling crappy or
uncomfortable.
So remember, our thoughts,create our feelings.
So it's worth looking at ourbeautiful brains and what
(18:27):
they're contributing to ourfeelings about being in this
messy space.
For example.
"I hate feeling this way or mylife sucks".
What might be a more helpfulthought?
Well, first of all, acknowledgethat yeah, what you've got to
work with right now, isn'tideal.
And that's okay.
I mean that's life sometimes.
And then a simple shift, like"things feel really hard to me
(18:50):
right now.
And this is temporary." Oranother thing that I like to
adopt as a mindset of thinking,like,"what is this trying to
teach me?" Or"what can I learnfrom this instead of why is this
happening to me?" Or"why is thishappening?" It's really a great
shift to work on.
And there's a lot of great stuffyou can do there.
Also important, you know, like Isaid, it is important to
(19:11):
acknowledge that something ishard though, you don't have to
flip to like rainbows andunicorns.
It's it's something can suck,but also you can find a better
mindset about it.
So I want to really stress here,it's, it's really important to
note here that we don't employthese techniques or skills to
get rid of the shitty feelingsor the uncomfortable stuff.
(19:32):
We use these skills to make itmore bearable to let them hang
out while they need to hang out.
So one way I like to reallythink about this is, I think
it's kind of a good analogy islet's just pretend that you are,
maybe you're going on a trip andyou have a ton of stuff to.
Do you have like cleaning to dopacking, to do you've got you
(19:53):
gotta line up stuff for yourpets, for pet center and all the
things.
And, you gotta really earlyflights.
You gotta get it all done.
And then some friends that kindof annoy you, they stop in to
say hi.
It's not that they totallyannoying.
It's not that you don't likethem, but like, you're like,
it's really annoying that youjust showed up right now because
I have so much stuff to do, butyou want to be nice.
(20:13):
And you're, you're happy to seethem too.
So you're like, okay, I'm reallybusy, but come on, come on in
any way, but I'm going to keepdoing my stuff and you can hang
out while I do my stuff, butjust know that I'm, I've got
lots to do.
So it's kind of like that.
These are emotions that areuncomfortable, they're like
hanging out with you.
And you're just kinda acceptingthey're there while you keep
(20:36):
doing what you need to do tocarry on.
Like it's not avoiding them.
It's not, you know, it's sort oflike, okay, let me make space
for you to be here while I makespace for myself also to get my
shit done.
Okay.
So another thing that I like toask myself is, or actually, ask
(20:57):
my emotions is, is theresomething that my emotions are
trying to tell me?
Feeling disrespected, forexample.
Might be trying to tell you tolook at your boundaries.
There might be deeper learningsto discover by exploring your
emotions further.
This is where friends thatfeelings wheel I told you about
earlier.
That's what this is where that'sso helpful.
(21:18):
Because if you can get to anuanced emotion, like it might
really give you some informationabout like, why am I feeling
this way?
And it can help you accept thatemotion a little easier.
Because, you know, for example,let's just say somebody crosses
a boundary.
And, you know, you feel happyabout it.
Well, that's not super healthycause we need boundaries.
(21:40):
Right.
So think about it that way.
Emotions do serve a purpose.
If you haven't ever seen themovie inside out, by the way, go
watch it.
Talks about this conceptexactly.
So sometimes the gap creates.
So the, you know, that messyspace, messy, middle space
creates feelings that are reallyintense.
And if some of these skills arenew to you, they might be really
(22:02):
hard to access because of this.
Sometimes our nervous system isjust too overloaded to go
through this stuff and that'stotally okay.
And normal.
We just need to kind of bring itdown regulate a little bit
before this acceptance stuff islike accessible.
So, the modality of DBT ordialectical behavior therapy has
some really great stuff here tohelp with like distress
(22:25):
tolerance.
Surfing the moment, or the TIPPskill in DBT are skills that
help you ride out the reallyintense portion of the the
emotion.
Remember emotions have abeginning, a middle and an end.
And TIPP stands for temperature,intense exercise, paced
breathing and paired musclerelaxation.
(22:47):
So these are all ways that youcan change your physiology and
that can help you ride out thatintense part of the emotional
waves.
You can get back to a placewhere you actually can employ
some of the deeper awarenessbased skills that I've talked
about.
You can Google TIPP skills formore on, more info on that.
And again, tip is T I P P.
(23:08):
Um, distraction is also a goodtechnique here.
I'm looking at somethingpleasant, counting to five,
looking around the room andnaming five things that are
black or white or soft or hard,whatever works for you.
Naming an animal for each letterof the alphabet.
It's just some, you know,distraction.
Now, one of my clients actuallyasked me the other day.
(23:29):
Well, isn't that just avoiding?
And I laughed.
I was like, that's a very goodquestion.
The answer is yes and no.
It's not really avoiding it.
It is distracting from it untilyour nervous system can calm
down.
You're still not trying to pushaway the emotion because once
you get regulated a little bit,like, then you can access some
(23:50):
of these other skills I talkedabout.
You don't ever want to get tothe point where you're just
trying to push the emotion awayall the time.
Because like I said earlier,you're always going to have
uncomfortable emotions in life.
So, you know, if you push oneaway, another unwanted one's
gonna come anyway.
So like, you want to learn howto do this stuff.
(24:12):
So those are some of the moretactical skills to help you like
regulate before you get intosome of the more awareness type
skills, like, you know, mindset,thinking, thoughts.
And then just acceptance ofemotions.
So another aspect of being inthis messy middle space is
having support.
This is so important.
Friends, family, a coach, or atherapist, accountability
(24:35):
partners, mentors.
You know, having some sort ofsupport network is essential.
Sometimes I talk to people andsometimes I feel like this too
honestly, and they say that theyhave a hard time making close
friends.
And I totally get it.
So try things like engaging inmeetup groups or something like
that, for hobbies that youenjoy.
You know, really get creativeand obviously like, you know,
(24:58):
going to a meetup group, isn'tgoing to just score you a bunch
of really close friendships.
But it does help you, you know,being social and being with
other people, can be superhelpful.
Just connecting.
And then who knows what kind offriendships that you know, and
relationships you'll makethrough that.
So.
As I mentioned before, we canthink about the messy middle as
(25:19):
you know, just sitting withthese hard emotions that come in
there, in that messy gap.
And, you know, I call it themessy middle because it's
uncomfortable.
There's all kinds ofuncomfortable stuff in there.
And so when we navigate it,sometimes at least for me
anyway.
It can tend to be really messy.
Not pretty.
So, um, we can also think aboutit, like I said earlier, like as
(25:43):
broadly as a situation or aperiod of time.
So, which includes all of theuncomfortable emotions.
So, I'm going to share my ownpersonal example about one of my
messy middles and know thatthese periods are totally,
totally normal in life.
There are like seasons, like weall go through them.
So when I was going through mydivorce, it's funny it's been so
(26:06):
long now.
It seems kind of like aneternity ago, but also not that
long at all.
It was nine years ago that Idiscovered my ex-husband was.
Having an affair with a guy.
And, Yeah, nine years crazy.
So my messy middle lastedseveral years.
It was a tough time.
(26:26):
Long, messy middle.
So I had a really hard timeaccepting how uncomfortable that
was.
And at the time I didn't knowany of this stuff.
So it made it a lot harder forme.
But some of the things that Ilearned.
Along the way we're reallyimportant to you know, learning
(26:50):
how, how to navigate my othergaps or messy middles, right?
Like, When I was, oh, so there'sso many sub messy middles in
there too.
When I made the discovery, Ijust was so dysregulated.
I had so many hard emotions and,you know, I gradually learned
when I felt those through Imentioned dialectical behavior
(27:13):
therapy.
That was so helpful for me...
To just tolerate those emotions,To be able to step back and, you
know, a lot of the, like the tipskills I talked about, or even
distraction techniques,self-soothing.
Those were super important forme to be able to handle those
emotions that I just wasn't likeequipped to be with.
It helped me regulate a littlebit and that, that just in and
(27:34):
of itself took me a lot ofpractice to get to be able to do
that.
And, some of the thought worktoo, that was stuff that really
was helpful for me.
It took a while to really learnhow to employ that.
But, you know, and then alsojust, Just to point out the
acceptance of those emotions.
Like that's really the firstpart of it.
(27:56):
Emotions, when they're reallyout of control can be really
scary.
But the way that I got I'll justkind of share some things about
how I got through it.
First of all, I did a lot offalling on my face.
It's funny.
And that's okay.
Right.
You learn from that.
So at the time it felt reallyawful, but, I learned a lot from
(28:16):
it.
So yeah, so there's that lifelessons through failing.
And screwing up.
So also one of the things thatstuck with me and was super
helpful for me was learning thatmy thoughts are not facts.
And the first book I ever readthat taught me that was the
untethered soul by Michael asinger.
Um, so that was one thing thatuh, helped me just really
(28:41):
embrace that.
You know, when I was having athought that was telling me my
life was over and things were,you know, never going to get
better.
Like I could, I could recognize,oh, that's just that story that
my brain is playing that, thatnarrative, that tape that my
brain is playing for me.
And that doesn't necessarily,that's not necessarily true.
(29:02):
And actually when, I stopped toreally look at those, those
thoughts.
it probably not true.
Right?
So just chipping away at that,working on that was another
thing.
And then, you know, justself-soothing skills, being,
learning how to handle, like, bewith an emotion, how to accept
an emotion and ways to regulatemy nervous system.
(29:23):
And finally, once you learnthose skills, I think like
zooming out a little bit and,and knowing that, Hey, you know,
we have these seasons in lifethat sometimes they just really
suck.
And they're not going to lastforever.
And you know, it's looking atwhere am I really hanging onto
something that's not serving meanymore.
Where do I need to do a littlebit of letting go?
(29:44):
And, the other thing that reallyhelped me too, is thinking about
there's a quote.
I don't know where it came from,but the only way is through...
is totally the most truthfulthing ever.
The only way is through.
There's no debating that.
When you're going through a hardtime, the only way is to just go
through it.
There's no shortcut.
(30:04):
And every time you try to take ashortcut, you're going to
realize that the shortcuts adead end.
You're just going to have to goback to the path anyway.
So might as well just walkthrough it.
So really knowing that and like,just what's important to me.
Know your values, take one stepat a time, one foot in front of
the other.
Sometimes you'll feel like superoverwhelmed with your messy
(30:25):
middle and that's when you stopand say, Hmm, what's important
to me here.
What direction?
Like where's, my values.
That's my compass.
What direction do I need to beheading?
And what's a baby step.
I can take here to get meunstuck?
That's super important.
And one more thing that is soimportant and none of us do this
enough, but self compassion.
(30:46):
Learn to be nice to yourself.
Learn to love on yourself whenyou're going through these hard
times.
Really learn to do that.
It's so important.
And so what's the outcome ofembracing all of this
discomfort?
It's not like things are oh,perfect.
No, it's just that when I gothrough another time of feeling
really uncomfortable, I have thetools to feel navigate that a
(31:09):
little more gracefully.
It doesn't ever mean it feelsgood, or I like it.
It just means that I can, I'm alittle more of an expert.
Or I'm a little more, you know,seasoned in terms of getting
through that.
So, you know, one thing with allof this is that, it's sort of
all about embracing what getsthrown at you too.
(31:30):
I've mentioned letting go just aminute ago.
And I think that's a big part ofthis.
It's a journey.
I mean, it sounds cheesy andcliche, but this is a journey.
You know, embrace it, find themeaning in it.
Even the tough parts where canyou find meaning in those tough
parts?
And really, really, reallyimportant is to acknowledge the
(31:51):
growth that you're having andcelebrate your victories no
matter how big or how small.
Celebrate your progress.
Don't sell yourself short.
These messy middles, this iswhere like we're totally out of
our comfort zone and this iswhere the growth happens.
This is where we becomestronger.
We become more resilient.
(32:11):
We really learn more aboutourselves and really Become the,
you know, we're just always,constantly becoming the people
we're meant to be, but this iswhere we take those big steps is
where we really find out whatwere made out of.
And honestly these tough timesdo bring meaning to life because
without them, we wouldn't knowhow to appreciate the times that
(32:31):
are positive and and good andbeautiful and, and, you know,
feel good.
So I'm going to leave you withsomething to think about.
Think about your life and justkind of see where you are
experiencing a messy middle.
Whether it's just simply like,you know, you're waiting to hear
(32:54):
if you got a job or not, and youfeel anxious about it.
Or, you have somethingunresolved with someone and
you're sitting there like notknowing how it's going to end
and that doesn't feel good.
Or I gave the example of mydivorce, that messy middle, like
maybe you have something justentirely huge or it just feels
like a shit show in there.
Like, just think about whatmessy middles you have in your
(33:17):
life.
And think about how you canapply some of these, you know,
these skills to your ownexperience.
And I would love to hear if thiswas helpful.
Shoot me an email kortney atkortney rivard dot com.
If you have any feedback aboutit, I'd love to hear what worked
for you?
What didn't work for you?
That's always really helpful forme.
And one more thing before I go,if you are enjoying the show,
(33:39):
please, whatever platform you'relistening on, please leave me a
review and a rating just helpsother people find the show.
I'd really appreciate it so ihope this was really helpful
friends and i will see you nexttime.
Hello and welcome friends toepisode 116 of Real, Brave,
(00:07):
Unstoppable, on living in thequote-unquote messy middle.
Or navigating the gap betweenthe way things are and the way
you want things to be.
I was coaching a client lastweek who recently, got back
together with her partner aftersome time apart.
And she's got a lot of feelingsof betrayal and hurt.
Also has a hard time trustingthat her partner will really
(00:29):
show up for her in the way thatshe needs and wants him to.
I coach a lot of people on thiskind of thing.
The, should I stay or should Igo question?
It's really a difficult thing tocoach people through because
they tend to want to set a goalaround making a decision, but
making these types of decisionsis really hard and
uncomfortable.
And what tends to happen is thatbeing in indecision in a
(00:52):
relationship usually means thatone person has like a backdoor.
In case things get rough there'san exit.
So we talked through this backdoor or like safety valve.
And she mentioned that shestarts to go there when there's
a problem in the relationship.
So, having a backdoor is like away of avoiding the discomfort
(01:12):
that comes with a problem.
Now, caveat, I'm not talkingabout abusive relationships or
relationships that I've reallytruly run their course and
things just aren't solvable anylonger.
I'm just talking about, youknow, normal conflict.
When things get sticky, ourbrain is like, no, get out.
This doesn't feel good.
You're supposed to feel good.
(01:34):
And flipping between I'm in andI'm out creates this like
distance in a relationship, andso learning how to live in this
like messy, middle of feelinguncomfortable can feel really
hard.
And by the way, this episode isnot solely on relationships.
This can apply to anything andwe'll talk about some other
examples in just a minute.
So, what is this messy middle,or sometimes I'll refer to it as
(01:58):
"the gap".
But, the messy middle is thespace between the way things
are, like reality, and the wayyou want things to be.
So our human tendency is to bedoing whatever we need to do to
close that gap.
So, you know, we feel discomfortwhen things aren't the way we
want them to be.
So there's discomfort on one endof it, and we'd rather not feel
(02:19):
that.
So we do what we need to do toget rid of the discomfort.
It's kind of like, we want tojust give up all the patience
and skip the journey from oneend of the gap to the other...
we just want to arrive.
I mean, let's face it feelinguncomfortable, whether that
shows up as an uncomfortableemotion or just physically feels
uncomfortable, like that kind ofsucks.
(02:39):
Right?
So, you know, no one wants tofeel crappy or uncomfortable and
it's natural to want to avoidthat feeling rather than lean
into it.
Not being where we want to be iswhat creates that uncomfortable
feeling.
I quote this a lot on the show,but author Pema Chodron says
that the reason we suffer isbecause we cling to the way we
(02:59):
want things to be or the way wethink things should be.
When we're attached to thatoutcome and we don't get it, we
feel bad, you know, maybe badhas kind of a umbrella emotion.
It's one of the ones we go to,but what does, you know, a bad
can be sad.
We might feel inadequate,resentful, frustrated and so on.
(03:20):
By the way it's really helpfulto...
there's a website calledfeelingswheel.com.
Like a wheel, like on a carfeelings wheel.com.
It has a feelings wheel that haslike the major emotions in the
middle and then different, likeit just kind of nuanced emotions
as you go farther and fartherout the wheel.
(03:40):
It's super helpful.
I highly recommend if you wantto dive into some of this work
it can be really helpful to justto know some of the more nuanced
emotions instead of just bad,sad, mad.
Anyway.
So when we feel thoseuncomfortable emotions or
unwanted emotions, you know, alot of times we hook into them
cause we judge them as bad.
I don't want to, I don't want tofeel this.
(04:01):
And pretty soon they're startingto run the show.
They dictate our behavior orlike, you know, how we show up
to life.
And, I'm going to give you somemore examples of this gap.
I used the relationship gapabove as an example, but other
examples could be, let's say youinterviewed for a job and you're
waiting to hear about it.
So you experienced anxiety orworry, maybe stress over not
(04:23):
knowing.
So that messy middle is thespace between not knowing and
wanting to know.
Right?
So once you know the feeling ofanxiety or whatever it goes
away, and if you don't get thejob, then it's just a new,
different, messy middle.
Intense conversations where twopeople don't agree, the messy
middle is between your opinionand wanting someone to agree
(04:44):
with you.
The tension that comes withhaving something unresolved is
uncomfortable for most people.
Related to health, wanting tolose weight could be an example.
Like if you don't like yourbody, you feel really sluggish,
low energy and want to be inbetter shape, like what you see
in the mirror, have more energy,be happy with your fitness
level.
The messy middle is thediscomfort that you feel when
(05:06):
you wish you were different.
I think that's a really goodexample.
'cause it, it illustrates likehow accepting yourself.
on that journey so important andthat's kind of what this all is.
It's like accepting that middle.
It doesn't mean it won't change,but you're just accepting what
you're working with at the time.
(05:28):
There's one more example.
I had a client the other day,who is experiencing sadness over
the realization that she wouldlikely never be a parent and her
messy middle is really thesadness that she feels from the
gap is between not having kidsand wanting kids.
It's that wanting or wishing shecould, but knowing she probably
won't have them.
(05:50):
So the, the gap or the messymiddle is kind of like a...
it's almost like a limbo land orsometimes I call it a swamp.
Also I have tons of greatmetaphors or words for this
space.
But it's kind of like limbobecause we're dealing with some
uncomfortable stuff thattypically we want to get out of.
So our brain is alerting usconstantly to the fact that.
(06:13):
We're not where we want to be orwhere we should be.
Quote-unquote.
And then we have all kinds ofthoughts about that too.
And then that creates moreuncomfortable emotions and we
have to be really intentionalabout this place.
That doesn't feel good.
It's really natural that thismessy feeling or uncomfortable
gap exists.
Our brains, you know, we don'tlike uncertainty.
(06:33):
Interestingly enough,uncertainty is actually a human
need.
The need for surprise andnovelty.
Otherwise life gets stagnant andboring.
That's just a side note, but wereally like to control how much
of, how much uncertainty we havein our lives.
So when things are uncertain, weget really uncomfortable.
So think about it when you havesomething to talk to a partner
(06:54):
about, and you're a littlescared to like broach that
subject because you're notreally sure how he or she will
react, or you're up forpromotion and it's uncertain as
to whether or not you'll get it,you just had a disagreement with
a friend and you don't know howthings are going to end up.
Those are all examples ofuncomfortable situations that we
might find ourselves in.
(07:15):
And also, anytime we encountersomething new in life, like new
people, new activities, newenvironments, we might feel
varying degrees of discomfort.
It's uncomfortable to get out ofyour comfort zone, duh,
obviously, right?
And I also know that in thesemoments, this is where the
growth happens.
You gain confidence that you cannavigate that middle space or
(07:39):
the gap in spite of thediscomfort.
You learn to trust yourresilience?
You learn to dig deep and findresources you didn't realize you
had.
And go back and listen toepisode number 114 about chaos
for more on that really goodepisode.
So, back to this messy, middlewe're talking about here, what
(08:01):
does it look like?
What is the gap look like andhow do we navigate this?
Well, it can be a short gap.
Or it can be a long gap.
Meaning, it can be a gap in amoment between feeling an
emotion an emotionally drivenreaction.
It can look like a long gapwhere you're having to wait to
know what an outcome is going tobe.
(08:22):
And it can be somewhere inbetween those two as well.
It can look like the emotionthat comes up when your partner
triggers you.
Sitting with that.
It can look like feeling ashamedthat you acted out at someone.
Feeling bad about yourselfbecause you didn't do something
perfectly.
It can look like feelingunsettled because there's an
unresolved issue in ourrelationship or overwhelming
(08:44):
worry, because you have too muchon your to-do list.
Sadness because you suffered aloss of some sort.
Feeling unimportant in arelationship.
All of these things are spaceswhere we just don't feel the way
we want to feel.
But here's the thing about themessy middle is that no one
likes it.
Duh.
It doesn't feel good.
(09:05):
So we kind of tend to make it anenemy.
You know, we judge it.
We make the feelings we feel inthat messy middle the bad guy.
And we become all about avoidingthat.
So what's wrong with that?
You ask avoiding, there'snothing wrong with it because
sometimes we need a break from areally hard emotion.
But what happens over time isthat we get in the habit of
(09:28):
avoiding whatever thatexperience is and in coaching
and psychology we call thatexperiential avoidance.
But when that becomes a habit,it doesn't really serve us over
the long-term.
So, you know, when we do feel anemotion, we don't like, so for
example, we feel the feelings offrustration or anger come up in
a conversation and we mightsnap.
(09:48):
The snap will create a newemotion, but it's helped to
relieve that initial one.
So maybe you feel feelings ofshame because you disappointed
someone.
So to avoid the feeling ofshame, you go into people
pleasing or fixing.
So you're not disappointing thatperson anymore.
Your brain tells you that aslong as you fix it, you won't
have to feel that awful feelingof shame.
(10:11):
Now the interesting thing is youcan imagine if you go into
people pleasing mode and you'reoverextending yourself to make
sure you don't disappointeveryone, then you have all
kinds of different emotions thatcome up, but you know, that
might come with stress oranxiety or something like that.
So the thing is, the pointyou're you maybe are catching
(10:31):
onto this as I'm talking here.
But there's always going to be ahard emotion.
Even if you avoid one, you don'tlike, or, you know, if you avoid
a situation, you don't like,there's always going to be a
hard situation.
So you might as well learn howto, how to exist in this gap.
I have a client that's workingon her relationship with her
(10:53):
parents and her mom is a littlebit emotionally immature.
And my client often gets reallyannoyed with her.
Her avoidance mechanism is towithdraw and create this
boundary with her mom, which isfine, however, and, and, and,
you know, healthy, however,after further discussion, we
figured out she was reallyletting her annoyance dictate
how she showed up for her mom,which was withdrawing.
(11:16):
And it helped her avoid furtherannoyance, which is sometimes
totally appropriate.
But the key part of this is thatthe emotion was actually
dictating how she showed up.
So when we explored this alittle more, we realized that
she didn't want to sit with thatemotion of annoyance.
And if she was able to hold thatwithout judgment, she could
decide how she wanted to handlethe situation from a more
(11:37):
objective standpoint that was inline with her values.
Like what's important in how sheshows up for her mom without
letting being annoyed, run theshow.
So it's really important to beable to acknowledge the
emotions.
Well, first notice them.
And then actually justacknowledge them.
And we'll talk about that indetail in a minute, but it's
(11:58):
also really important tonormalize them or neutralize
them because what happens.
Is that we get into judgment ofthem.
Labeling them good or bad, andthat doesn't help us make space
for them.
And that that's what helps that.
That's what pushes us to avoidthem.
So, how do we make space for allof the crap that's in the messy
(12:21):
middle?
How do we lean into whatever itis that shows up there?
Well, this is like so much ofthis is a practice.
It's not always easy and youwill never ever get it perfect.
So the first thing we start withis awareness.
I always say awareness is halfthe battle and it really is.
(12:41):
So why is this messy middlehard?
Because we have a judgment thatit's hard and negative and
unwanted.
Well, of course, it's going tosuck if we look at it that way.
Right?
So being in the space is reallyuncomfortable.
Like I we've...
you're you're figuring that outas I talk, I'm sure I've said
that many times, but thejudgment that it's bad creates
(13:02):
feelings that feel bad.
So let's talk about somestrategies for embracing this
discomfort or at least acceptingit and leaning into it.
So the first is acceptance ofthe discomfort.
You can think of this asacceptance of an entire
situation or parts of it thatare out of your control.
Or you can also think of it alittle more granularly.
(13:26):
Like as willingness to makespace or willingness to feel an
uncomfortable emotion orphysical feeling or unhelpful
thought even.
So let's talk about how to dothis.
And I'm going to talk about thison a more granular level, like
how to accept unwanted emotions,because this is really the
foundation or like the buildingblock of accepting bigger things
(13:48):
in situations.
So one of my favorite ways tostop fighting this messy middle
space is something I call thethree ends.
Notice name and neutralize ornormalize.
Notice as simply tuning in tothe present moment and noticing
what you're thinking, whatyou're feeling, what you're
doing.
Just what what's present.
(14:10):
Naming is simply naming theemotion or unhelpful thought.
Language is really importanthere.
So listen up instead of, forexample, saying to yourself, I'm
angry, you really want to shiftthat to like noticing the
experience of it.
Like, so the L the languagemight look like I'm noticing the
feeling of anger, or I noticeI'm having some angry feelings.
(14:34):
Or there's angry, or I'mnoticing that I'm feeling angry.
Um, say them, say those, youknow, say both ways out to hear
a loud to yourself.
Like I'm angry versus I'mnoticing the feeling of anger.
Like say those out loud toyourself, like take a minute and
do it right now.
And do you notice thedifference?
It feels a little less heavy.
(14:55):
It's more like I'm a client.
That I was working on with thisthe other day said.
It seems a little more transientwhen you say it that way.
And I loved how we describedthat because yeah, it feels like
when you say I noticed anger.
It's just like, oh, there'sanger.
There might be something elsecoming soon.
I don't know.
But it just, it feels like it'snot like I'm angry.
(15:18):
Just feels like whoa.
..Pretty big, right.
So neutralizing or another wayto look at it as normalizing.
It's really just creating areally neutral stance from which
you see this emotion.
It's like acknowledging thatit's okay to feel this way.
It's validating yourself forhaving the feeling like, it
(15:40):
makes sense.
So I would have this feeling, ofcourse, I feel angry.
So-and-so just really hurt me.
Like of course I feel hurt or ofcourse I felt frustrated.
Anyone would feel that way.
Given what's happened.
you know, really validatingyourself for having the feeling.
It's just what you're workingwith right now.
No judgment, nothing to fixhere.
You don't need to fix theemotion.
(16:00):
You don't need to.
Go to great lengths to changeit.
It's going to change on its own.
Just let it do its thing.
So let's work with an example.
My partner and I had a prettybig argument the other day.
One of many over the last coupleof weeks, so much fun.
I was really angry at him aswell as really frustrated at how
(16:21):
invalidating he was to me.
And I noticed that I was feelingreally jittery.
Like there was like, like thefirst thing that I like to do is
really when I'm trying topractice this is really get into
my body.
Like I felt like there was ahole in my chest and in my
stomach.
Um, and then I noticed emotionslike anger, frustration,
sadness, and even like defeat.
(16:42):
So following this framework, youknow, I noticed, I noticed it.
I was just told you what Inoticed.
And then naming looks like Inotice anger.
I also notice some frustrationand sadness and I notice I'm
feeling a sense of defeat.
I'm also noticing some physicalsensations, like a pit in my
stomach and a hole, like a holein my chest.
(17:03):
And I'm also noticing I have alittle anxiety.
Or I'm experiencing a littleanxiety.
That's what that looks like.
And the neutralizing ornormalizing might look like.
Yeah, these emotions are normal.
We just had a pretty bigargument.
I don't agree with things hesaid, and he refuses to listen
to what I have to say.
And he said some pretty meanthings to me.
(17:24):
So of course I would feel thesethings and it's okay to feel
that way.
Makes sense.
And, also the goal here, like Isaid before is not to judge our
experience or to feel the needto fix it or push unwanted
emotions away.
So if I notice I'm wanting to dothat, I might really focus on
sticking with the emotions oreven the physical part of it.
(17:45):
You know, really leaning intothem and making a point to feel
them.
Or even the physical sensationsI'm experiencing.
Not easy to do all the timebecause it is uncomfortable.
And most of us have been taughtto avoid what doesn't feel good.
I mean, that's pretty normal,right?
Yes, totally normal.
Another thing that's helpful tothink about here is working on
(18:07):
adopting more of a growth typemindset.
Um, I mentioned that the goal ofacceptance is well to accept,
not to judge or fix something toavoid feeling crappy or
uncomfortable.
So remember, our thoughts,create our feelings.
So it's worth looking at ourbeautiful brains and what
(18:27):
they're contributing to ourfeelings about being in this
messy space.
For example.
"I hate feeling this way or mylife sucks".
What might be a more helpfulthought?
Well, first of all, acknowledgethat yeah, what you've got to
work with right now, isn'tideal.
And that's okay.
I mean that's life sometimes.
And then a simple shift, like"things feel really hard to me
(18:50):
right now.
And this is temporary." Oranother thing that I like to
adopt as a mindset of thinking,like,"what is this trying to
teach me?" Or"what can I learnfrom this instead of why is this
happening to me?" Or"why is thishappening?" It's really a great
shift to work on.
And there's a lot of great stuffyou can do there.
Also important, you know, like Isaid, it is important to
(19:11):
acknowledge that something ishard though, you don't have to
flip to like rainbows andunicorns.
It's it's something can suck,but also you can find a better
mindset about it.
So I want to really stress here,it's, it's really important to
note here that we don't employthese techniques or skills to
get rid of the shitty feelingsor the uncomfortable stuff.
(19:32):
We use these skills to make itmore bearable to let them hang
out while they need to hang out.
So one way I like to reallythink about this is, I think
it's kind of a good analogy islet's just pretend that you are,
maybe you're going on a trip andyou have a ton of stuff to.
Do you have like cleaning to dopacking, to do you've got you
(19:53):
gotta line up stuff for yourpets, for pet center and all the
things.
And, you gotta really earlyflights.
You gotta get it all done.
And then some friends that kindof annoy you, they stop in to
say hi.
It's not that they totallyannoying.
It's not that you don't likethem, but like, you're like,
it's really annoying that youjust showed up right now because
I have so much stuff to do, butyou want to be nice.
(20:13):
And you're, you're happy to seethem too.
So you're like, okay, I'm reallybusy, but come on, come on in
any way, but I'm going to keepdoing my stuff and you can hang
out while I do my stuff, butjust know that I'm, I've got
lots to do.
So it's kind of like that.
These are emotions that areuncomfortable, they're like
hanging out with you.
And you're just kinda acceptingthey're there while you keep
(20:36):
doing what you need to do tocarry on.
Like it's not avoiding them.
It's not, you know, it's sort oflike, okay, let me make space
for you to be here while I makespace for myself also to get my
shit done.
Okay.
So another thing that I like toask myself is, or actually, ask
(20:57):
my emotions is, is theresomething that my emotions are
trying to tell me?
Feeling disrespected, forexample.
Might be trying to tell you tolook at your boundaries.
There might be deeper learningsto discover by exploring your
emotions further.
This is where friends thatfeelings wheel I told you about
earlier.
That's what this is where that'sso helpful.
(21:18):
Because if you can get to anuanced emotion, like it might
really give you some informationabout like, why am I feeling
this way?
And it can help you accept thatemotion a little easier.
Because, you know, for example,let's just say somebody crosses
a boundary.
And, you know, you feel happyabout it.
Well, that's not super healthycause we need boundaries.
(21:40):
Right.
So think about it that way.
Emotions do serve a purpose.
If you haven't ever seen themovie inside out, by the way, go
watch it.
Talks about this conceptexactly.
So sometimes the gap creates.
So the, you know, that messyspace, messy, middle space
creates feelings that are reallyintense.
And if some of these skills arenew to you, they might be really
(22:02):
hard to access because of this.
Sometimes our nervous system isjust too overloaded to go
through this stuff and that'stotally okay.
And normal.
We just need to kind of bring itdown regulate a little bit
before this acceptance stuff islike accessible.
So, the modality of DBT ordialectical behavior therapy has
some really great stuff here tohelp with like distress
(22:25):
tolerance.
Surfing the moment, or the TIPPskill in DBT are skills that
help you ride out the reallyintense portion of the the
emotion.
Remember emotions have abeginning, a middle and an end.
And TIPP stands for temperature,intense exercise, paced
breathing and paired musclerelaxation.
(22:47):
So these are all ways that youcan change your physiology and
that can help you ride out thatintense part of the emotional
waves.
You can get back to a placewhere you actually can employ
some of the deeper awarenessbased skills that I've talked
about.
You can Google TIPP skills formore on, more info on that.
And again, tip is T I P P.
(23:08):
Um, distraction is also a goodtechnique here.
I'm looking at somethingpleasant, counting to five,
looking around the room andnaming five things that are
black or white or soft or hard,whatever works for you.
Naming an animal for each letterof the alphabet.
It's just some, you know,distraction.
Now, one of my clients actuallyasked me the other day.
(23:29):
Well, isn't that just avoiding?
And I laughed.
I was like, that's a very goodquestion.
The answer is yes and no.
It's not really avoiding it.
It is distracting from it untilyour nervous system can calm
down.
You're still not trying to pushaway the emotion because once
you get regulated a little bit,like, then you can access some
(23:50):
of these other skills I talkedabout.
You don't ever want to get tothe point where you're just
trying to push the emotion awayall the time.
Because like I said earlier,you're always going to have
uncomfortable emotions in life.
So, you know, if you push oneaway, another unwanted one's
gonna come anyway.
So like, you want to learn howto do this stuff.
(24:12):
So those are some of the moretactical skills to help you like
regulate before you get intosome of the more awareness type
skills, like, you know, mindset,thinking, thoughts.
And then just acceptance ofemotions.
So another aspect of being inthis messy middle space is
having support.
This is so important.
Friends, family, a coach, or atherapist, accountability
(24:35):
partners, mentors.
You know, having some sort ofsupport network is essential.
Sometimes I talk to people andsometimes I feel like this too
honestly, and they say that theyhave a hard time making close
friends.
And I totally get it.
So try things like engaging inmeetup groups or something like
that, for hobbies that youenjoy.
You know, really get creativeand obviously like, you know,
(24:58):
going to a meetup group, isn'tgoing to just score you a bunch
of really close friendships.
But it does help you, you know,being social and being with
other people, can be superhelpful.
Just connecting.
And then who knows what kind offriendships that you know, and
relationships you'll makethrough that.
So.
As I mentioned before, we canthink about the messy middle as
(25:19):
you know, just sitting withthese hard emotions that come in
there, in that messy gap.
And, you know, I call it themessy middle because it's
uncomfortable.
There's all kinds ofuncomfortable stuff in there.
And so when we navigate it,sometimes at least for me
anyway.
It can tend to be really messy.
Not pretty.
So, um, we can also think aboutit, like I said earlier, like as
(25:43):
broadly as a situation or aperiod of time.
So, which includes all of theuncomfortable emotions.
So, I'm going to share my ownpersonal example about one of my
messy middles and know thatthese periods are totally,
totally normal in life.
There are like seasons, like weall go through them.
So when I was going through mydivorce, it's funny it's been so
(26:06):
long now.
It seems kind of like aneternity ago, but also not that
long at all.
It was nine years ago that Idiscovered my ex-husband was.
Having an affair with a guy.
And, Yeah, nine years crazy.
So my messy middle lastedseveral years.
It was a tough time.
(26:26):
Long, messy middle.
So I had a really hard timeaccepting how uncomfortable that
was.
And at the time I didn't knowany of this stuff.
So it made it a lot harder forme.
But some of the things that Ilearned.
Along the way we're reallyimportant to you know, learning
(26:50):
how, how to navigate my othergaps or messy middles, right?
Like, When I was, oh, so there'sso many sub messy middles in
there too.
When I made the discovery, Ijust was so dysregulated.
I had so many hard emotions and,you know, I gradually learned
when I felt those through Imentioned dialectical behavior
(27:13):
therapy.
That was so helpful for me...
To just tolerate those emotions,To be able to step back and, you
know, a lot of the, like the tipskills I talked about, or even
distraction techniques,self-soothing.
Those were super important forme to be able to handle those
emotions that I just wasn't likeequipped to be with.
It helped me regulate a littlebit and that, that just in and
(27:34):
of itself took me a lot ofpractice to get to be able to do
that.
And, some of the thought worktoo, that was stuff that really
was helpful for me.
It took a while to really learnhow to employ that.
But, you know, and then alsojust, Just to point out the
acceptance of those emotions.
Like that's really the firstpart of it.
(27:56):
Emotions, when they're reallyout of control can be really
scary.
But the way that I got I'll justkind of share some things about
how I got through it.
First of all, I did a lot offalling on my face.
It's funny.
And that's okay.
Right.
You learn from that.
So at the time it felt reallyawful, but, I learned a lot from
(28:16):
it.
So yeah, so there's that lifelessons through failing.
And screwing up.
So also one of the things thatstuck with me and was super
helpful for me was learning thatmy thoughts are not facts.
And the first book I ever readthat taught me that was the
untethered soul by Michael asinger.
Um, so that was one thing thatuh, helped me just really
(28:41):
embrace that.
You know, when I was having athought that was telling me my
life was over and things were,you know, never going to get
better.
Like I could, I could recognize,oh, that's just that story that
my brain is playing that, thatnarrative, that tape that my
brain is playing for me.
And that doesn't necessarily,that's not necessarily true.
(29:02):
And actually when, I stopped toreally look at those, those
thoughts.
it probably not true.
Right?
So just chipping away at that,working on that was another
thing.
And then, you know, justself-soothing skills, being,
learning how to handle, like, bewith an emotion, how to accept
an emotion and ways to regulatemy nervous system.
(29:23):
And finally, once you learnthose skills, I think like
zooming out a little bit and,and knowing that, Hey, you know,
we have these seasons in lifethat sometimes they just really
suck.
And they're not going to lastforever.
And you know, it's looking atwhere am I really hanging onto
something that's not serving meanymore.
Where do I need to do a littlebit of letting go?
(29:44):
And, the other thing that reallyhelped me too, is thinking about
there's a quote.
I don't know where it came from,but the only way is through...
is totally the most truthfulthing ever.
The only way is through.
There's no debating that.
When you're going through a hardtime, the only way is to just go
through it.
There's no shortcut.
(30:04):
And every time you try to take ashortcut, you're going to
realize that the shortcuts adead end.
You're just going to have to goback to the path anyway.
So might as well just walkthrough it.
So really knowing that and like,just what's important to me.
Know your values, take one stepat a time, one foot in front of
the other.
Sometimes you'll feel like superoverwhelmed with your messy
(30:25):
middle and that's when you stopand say, Hmm, what's important
to me here.
What direction?
Like where's, my values.
That's my compass.
What direction do I need to beheading?
And what's a baby step.
I can take here to get meunstuck?
That's super important.
And one more thing that is soimportant and none of us do this
enough, but self compassion.
(30:46):
Learn to be nice to yourself.
Learn to love on yourself whenyou're going through these hard
times.
Really learn to do that.
It's so important.
And so what's the outcome ofembracing all of this
discomfort?
It's not like things are oh,perfect.
No, it's just that when I gothrough another time of feeling
really uncomfortable, I have thetools to feel navigate that a
(31:09):
little more gracefully.
It doesn't ever mean it feelsgood, or I like it.
It just means that I can, I'm alittle more of an expert.
Or I'm a little more, you know,seasoned in terms of getting
through that.
So, you know, one thing with allof this is that, it's sort of
all about embracing what getsthrown at you too.
(31:30):
I've mentioned letting go just aminute ago.
And I think that's a big part ofthis.
It's a journey.
I mean, it sounds cheesy andcliche, but this is a journey.
You know, embrace it, find themeaning in it.
Even the tough parts where canyou find meaning in those tough
parts?
And really, really, reallyimportant is to acknowledge the
(31:51):
growth that you're having andcelebrate your victories no
matter how big or how small.
Celebrate your progress.
Don't sell yourself short.
These messy middles, this iswhere like we're totally out of
our comfort zone and this iswhere the growth happens.
This is where we becomestronger.
We become more resilient.
(32:11):
We really learn more aboutourselves and really Become the,
you know, we're just always,constantly becoming the people
we're meant to be, but this iswhere we take those big steps is
where we really find out whatwere made out of.
And honestly these tough timesdo bring meaning to life because
without them, we wouldn't knowhow to appreciate the times that
(32:31):
are positive and and good andbeautiful and, and, you know,
feel good.
So I'm going to leave you withsomething to think about.
Think about your life and justkind of see where you are
experiencing a messy middle.
Whether it's just simply like,you know, you're waiting to hear
(32:54):
if you got a job or not, and youfeel anxious about it.
Or, you have somethingunresolved with someone and
you're sitting there like notknowing how it's going to end
and that doesn't feel good.
Or I gave the example of mydivorce, that messy middle, like
maybe you have something justentirely huge or it just feels
like a shit show in there.
Like, just think about whatmessy middles you have in your
(33:17):
life.
And think about how you canapply some of these, you know,
these skills to your ownexperience.
And I would love to hear if thiswas helpful.
Shoot me an email kortney atkortney rivard dot com.
If you have any feedback aboutit, I'd love to hear what worked
for you?
What didn't work for you?
That's always really helpful forme.
And one more thing before I go,if you are enjoying the show,
(33:39):
please, whatever platform you'relistening on, please leave me a
review and a rating just helpsother people find the show.
I'd really appreciate it so ihope this was really helpful
friends and i will see you nexttime.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Ridiculous History
History is beautiful, brutal and, often, ridiculous. Join Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown as they dive into some of the weirdest stories from across the span of human civilization in Ridiculous History, a podcast by iHeartRadio.