February 20, 2025 • 37 mins
Do more miles really lead to better performance? We discuss why recreational runners should not follow elite training plans, taking into account the genetic, recovery, and lifestyle differences. The episode explores the science and benefits behind polarized training, which emphasizes easy and hard training days while minimizing moderate efforts. We highlight the importance of a training plan that fits one's individual life circumstances and current goals, especially for women over 40 experiencing hormonal changes. The discussion includes the impact of polarized training on endurance and body composition and advocates for more flexible and adaptable training strategies to maintain motivation and achieve better results.
00:38 The Science Behind Polarized Training
02:35 Debunking the 'More is Better' Myth
05:08 Understanding the Risks of High Mileage
08:03 Tailoring Training Plans for Real Life Runners
25:25 The Importance of Polarized Training for Women
28:44 Adapting Your Training Plan for Optimal Results
35:09 Conclusion: Train Smarter, Not Harder
Join the Team! --> https://www.realliferunners.com/team
Thanks for Listening!!
Be sure to hit FOLLOW on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast player
Leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Your ratings and reviews really help and we read each one!
Come find us on Instagram and say hi!
Don't forget: The information on this website is not intended to treat or diagnose any medical condition or to provide medical advice. It is intended for general education in the areas of health and wellness. All information contained in this site is intended to be educational in nature. Nothing should be considered medical advice for your specific situation.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Angie (00:00):
For decades, marathon training and really endurance
(00:03):
running training in general hasfollowed a pretty simple
formula, run more miles and getfaster.
But what if that's not the bestapproach, especially for you?
most training plans today arejust watered down versions of
elite.
programs.
They assume that recreationalrunners are just slower elites,
when in reality the differencesgo much deeper.
(00:25):
Elite runners often have geneticadvantages, different recovery
capacities, and a lifestylebuilt around training.
So why are we, as real liferunners, Following the same
blueprint and expecting the sameresults.
In this episode today, we'regoing to be diving into the
evolution of marathon trainingand also just training in
general.
So even if you're not trainingfor a marathon, this will still
(00:46):
apply to you.
And the science behind polarizedtraining.
So little.
spoiler alert, more miles is notalways better and why your
training plan needs to adapt toyour life, not the other way
around.
We've talked about that multipletimes on the podcast, but today
we're going to take a little bitof a different spin on it.
So by the end of today'sepisode, you're going to
(01:06):
understand how to train smarter,not just harder and how to build
a plan that works with your bodyand not against it.
So stay tuned.
(01:37):
What's up runners.
Welcome to the show today.
We're talking about polarizedtraining, the best way to train,
which I know is a topic that alot of you love talking about,
especially you, Kevin.
Kevin (01:48):
I do.
I do love training.
I think I should be wearing aheadband and some tall socks so
we can talk about how to trainlike 80s athletes.
Angie (01:55):
Ooh, in really short shorts.
you still
Kevin (01:57):
have really, you already
Angie (01:58):
rocked those.
Yeah, exactly.
But it is funny because those ofyou might not know this.
Kevin does have differentlengths of running shorts
depending on where he's running,which is good.
if he's doing our school 5k,especially if our high school
daughter is going to be presentand nearby, he opts for the
longer shorts.
Kevin (02:16):
Yeah.
As the, as our daughter got.
older.
The shorts that I wore to runthat race definitely got a lot
longer.
Angie (02:21):
Yes.
did you used to wear shortshorts?
I don't think you ever reallywore the short shorts.
I never wore
Kevin (02:26):
my like, my normal racing shorts.
Normal.
Angie (02:29):
I like your shorty shorts.
Yeah.
Kevin (02:31):
My racing shorts is what I would like racing
Angie (02:34):
shorts.
Yeah.
So today we're going to get intotraining plans in general.
And a lot of runners have thisidea that more is better.
if I want to get better, if Iwant to improve my endurance, if
I want to improve my speed, if Iwant to improve my pace, all I
have to do is keep running more.
And you might even think I alsojust need to keep pushing myself
(02:54):
harder.
And today I hope by the end ofthis episode, you're going to
let go of those faulty beliefsbecause they are not true for
most runners.
Especially if you are arecreational runner, what we
like to think of as a real liferunner over the age of 40, we
have to let go of this wholeidea of more is better and
harder is better because thosedon't always apply.
Kevin (03:16):
It's such an easy idea to fall into because when you first
get into running it almost Doesapply universally across the
board that when you, you startrunning and you're doing like
five to 10 miles a week and youmove that up 15 miles a week,
you get faster and you're like,Oh, this is fantastic.
(03:36):
I should just keep running more.
But you can see the problem withthis.
If 15 is better than 10 and 20is better than 15 at some point,
you're going to hit a numberthat's not better.
Like at some point, like 3000 isnot better.
So clearly there's an upperlimit to this.
There is faulty logic.
But when you first get intorunning, when you're first
(03:56):
trying to make these connectionsof how do I improve a little bit
more is very often better.
Angie (04:02):
Yeah.
And I want to really.
Make this point because a lot ofpeople don't understand like
where traditional training planscome from like you go into an
app or you go On a website andyou look up a training plan
You're like, okay I'm gonnatrain for a half marathon or a
marathon and you look uptraining plans, right?
You go into Google and say likemarathon training plan.
(04:22):
What pops up is oftentimes basedon plans that were developed for
elite runners.
And then they just scale backthat mileage.
Cause most recreational runnersare not running a hundred to 150
miles per week, which is what alot of elite marathoners are
running.
Kevin (04:38):
Oh yeah.
You take most elite marathoners.
I think at the low end, you'reprobably going to get,
especially if you dive into thefemale side, you're going to get
probably 70 to.
people putting in crazy miles,130 ish miles a week, which used
to be even higher.
Like it used to be almostunheard of to get top marathon,
especially male marathoners tobe doing anything below triple
(04:58):
digits.
Now you're looking at ultrarunners out there who are not
even hitting triple digits perweek and still winning high
level ultra marathons.
Angie (05:08):
Yeah, so this whole idea is definitely starting to shift,
which I think is a really goodthing, especially as a physical
therapist, because I understandhow many runners get injured
every single year for moneyinjuries.
One of the, one study I justlooked up, it was published in
2023, they did a review of otherstudies based on kind of an
anonymous study that they sentout to runners.
(05:30):
There was over 600 participantsthat responded to this survey.
84 0.
4 percent of people said thatthey had experienced some
running injury at some point intheir lives, and 76 percent of
these respondents were female,which I really liked because so
many times you'll get it theopposite way, and I love how
many more females are gettinginto running too, but it is
(05:51):
really important for us to knowthis is 84 percent of people.
Of runners get injured and likeabout 46%.
It was just under 50 percentsaid that they had some sort of
running related injury in thelast year, like within that last
12 months.
And so this is really importantfor us to look at, because based
on another study that I hadlooked at, it said that people
that run over 19 miles per weektend to have a higher risk of
(06:15):
injury.
And I'm not saying that nobodyshould run more than 19 miles a
week, because clearly that's notthe case, especially if you're
training for a marathon.
But.
It's the time period for us tolook at this and say, okay,
we've got these differentstudies that are showing runners
get injured, very frequently.
Then we've got this other studythat's showing that, there is
this kind of mileage thresholdthat they see above and below,
(06:38):
that kind of mileage thatthey're.
does tend to be an increasedrisk of running injuries.
So what do we do with thatinformation?
Because it's not that it's justthe mileage alone.
That's the problem.
It's the way that we'retraining.
I think that becomes more of theproblem.
And that's why we really have tolook at the training plans and
so many of these training plans.
(06:58):
We're based on this idea of justrunning more or taking a plan
from an elite runner or an elitecoach There's lots of historical
coaches you know, you're muchmore familiar with those guys
than I am and just watering themdown and bringing them down to a
Quote unquote, normal Mileagelevel, but that doesn't really
work that way.
It's like trying to make a loafof gluten free bread based on a
(07:24):
traditional bread recipe.
You can't just substitute glutenfree flour, even though they
tell you that you can.
There's that one to onesubstitution right of like
gluten free flour.
You can't just put in almondflour or like coconut flour
instead of whole wheat flour.
You're not going to get the sameloaf.
At all.
It's not going to taste thesame.
It's not going to look the same.
It's probably not going to riselike there's gonna be all sorts
(07:47):
of problems with that loaf.
So you can't just substitute onefor the other.
Kevin (07:50):
theoretically, you can substitute the bag suggests that
you can sub the one flower forthe other.
But
Angie (07:55):
even that one to one flower is a combination of
flowers.
It's not just one.
So I think that's reallyimportant, too.
Kevin (08:01):
Yeah, because it doesn't really work.
I want to go back to that.
You pointed out that they foundthat this magic number of 19,
which is clearly Yeah, That wasjust statistically where that
study happened to find a changein numbers.
That's not where it is, butwhat's behind that?
And this part is us creatingsome speculation off of it.
Once you go above a certainmileage, you probably start
(08:25):
losing certain other importantthings out of your training.
You probably are now so focusedon making sure that you're
hitting enough mileage thatmaybe your strength training
goes by the wayside.
Or maybe at lower mileage, youdidn't need as much strength for
your body to handle the load ofmileage.
And so maybe it wasn't thatstrength training went by the
wayside.
(08:45):
Maybe you were getting bywithout like you were in the
danger zone, but you hadn'tpushed it quite far enough that
the fact that you were too weakwas actually not creating an
issue yet.
And then you went over whateverthat threshold was.
averaged out among that group tobe 19.
It said that 19 is number.
It was probably 15 for somepeople and 30 for others, but
(09:07):
there's a number.
Angie (09:07):
Yeah.
It's the same thing as cadence,right?
180 steps per minute is not themagical cadence number, but that
was just the median between,like when they looked at the
different studies, there wassome people at one 60, there
were some people at 200 and one80 was in the middle.
So that's where they landed.
Kevin (09:22):
Got to hate that study.
That study is five people andthe median was 180.
That was such, it's only fivepeople.
It's five.
It's five ultra marathonrunners.
That's wild.
And the person that won the racehad a cadence of 180, or sorry,
of one 60.
And the person that got secondhad 200.
And so how could, how come 180is the best?
Angie (09:40):
Yeah, I mean it's the average of the two.
but this is the point too,right?
We real life runners are notjust smaller, slower versions of
elites like we have differentingredients like elite runners
that are winning marathons allover the world and in the
Olympics, those people havedifferent genetic makeups than
(10:02):
most of us, I would argue.
I'm just
Kevin (10:03):
going to say it.
They're genetic freaks in thebest way possible.
They are genetic anomalies andyou can do a lot of different
training with them that mostpeople cannot necessarily do and
adapt in the same way.
Angie (10:17):
And the way that their lifestyles are.
Also adapted for that kind oftraining, whereas we have all
sorts of other life demands likewe have family and we have
stress and we have recoverylimitations and we've got work
and we've got all these otherthings and so our body, even if
we did put the same recipe inright, like the same mileage and
(10:38):
shrink training, all the thingsthat the elites are doing, we're
not going to get the sameoutput.
We can't take a two hour napevery single day.
We don't have access to amassage therapist for our daily
massage or a nutritionist or achef, like all these things that
the elite runners have to helpmake them into the best runners
(10:58):
on the planet.
That's not how most of us areoperating the majority of us
Kevin (11:02):
No And then you get those stories of the Olympians that
are like they're also a parentlike the mom Olympians where
you're like, okay, but they dohave real existence like with it
They're trying to figure outlike can I get child care
coverage that I can go work outfor a couple of hours?
Like how do I make this all workand I go back to genetic anomaly
(11:25):
like There's a reason why thatperson was an Olympian before
they were, they had a kid andthere's a reason they're going
to be able to go back and be anOlympian after they have a kid.
And it's that there is, there'ssome genetic component to this
that they won.
Like they won genetic lotteryand yes, they're putting in an
insane amount of work.
But if I put in that same amountof work, I'm not necessarily
(11:46):
getting those same results.
It's just not happening.
Angie (11:49):
Yeah.
And I think that's really where.
All of this kind of comes in iswhy are we trying to use someone
else's ingredients for our body?
Wouldn't we get better resultsif we had a plan that was
designed for your uniqueingredients your body?
And that's really where thatsmart adaptable training plan
(12:09):
comes in that balances thestress and the recovery and the
performance for your bestresults for the way that your
body operates in your Real lifebecause so many runners think,
if I just run more, then I'llget faster, then I'll get
stronger.
But what we have to understandis that more is not always
better.
Sometimes more is just morestress on our body without the
(12:33):
results that we want.
And sometimes it even leads tomore breakdown in the.
Yeah,
Kevin (12:40):
I would argue that if you look back to when more was
better, was like a big push.
We're looking at like 80s and90s, even like 70s, 80s, 90s.
One of your premier coaches atthe time is Alberto Salazar, and
everybody can have their ownthoughts on Alberto, but he
pushed the limits on everythingthat he could possibly push.
And one of them was how muchmiles can we possibly throw at a
(13:02):
human and see if it works?
You look at colleges at thattime, there were a lot of
programs that were basicallythrowing as many miles at
runners as they could.
And whoever was still standing,those were your diamonds.
Angie (13:14):
There's still high school programs that do that as well.
There are some around us.
Kevin (13:17):
There are plenty of programs that do this because If
you throw a whole lot ofmileage, what are you going to
get?
You're going to get some hurtathletes, but you are also going
to be able to find the cream ofthe crop really nicely because
those ones that didn't break.
So this is going to work.
It helps you find geneticanomalies.
That's what you get left with.
And you're like, man, my team isonly filled with great athletes.
(13:39):
No, it's not.
You broke all the athletes thatcouldn't handle your program.
You, your team could have beenfull of a whole lot of great
athletes, but you only went withone method.
the reason why the world recordsfrom the eighties, as long as
they weren't caused by illegalsubstances are all getting
broken is because we foundbetter training techniques.
Just throwing more mileage isnot the solution to this.
(14:02):
We don't
Angie (14:03):
forget super shoes.
Kevin (14:04):
okay.
Yes.
There's super shoes also.
I'm not going to say thateverything is necessarily the
cleanest now because there wascertainly a time when EPO was
just blazing through the world.
But, there, there are otherreasons that world records are
dropping like crazy right now.
And it is one of the reasons iswe're not just saying more
mileage is always the correctanswer.
Angie (14:25):
And I think that while it is really important for us to.
Acknowledge that elite runnersaren't just faster versions of
everyday runners and we, or viceversa, we're not just slow
versions of elites like we haveto understand that these elite
runners do have the geneticadvantages in VO two max in
muscle fiber composition inrunning economy, like their body
(14:47):
just responds to trainingdifferently than most of us.
And that is something that wedefinitely need to recognize.
At the same time, while we don'twant to take their exact
training plan and just water itdown and just decrease the
mileage on it, we can look atwhat the elites are doing and
adapt them to our real life,take what they're doing as an
(15:10):
example and say, okay, I seethat they're adding in more
strength training, notnecessarily that, okay, we have
to perform six reps of thisexact thing at this amount of my
one rep max, blah, blah, blah,blah.
Like sometimes if we get toodeep into the details and in the
weeds, that's what I think wherewe start to get into a problem
here, but we can look at overallwhat they're doing, how they're
(15:32):
balancing the running and howthey're balancing strength
training.
But what we have to alsounderstand is so many of these
elite runners and so many ofthese.
Classic traditional marathonplans are based on six days of
running at least right six toseven days of running and
sometimes they even have tworuns per day like a lot of the
(15:52):
elites are doing that most of usaren't training that way like
there are some people out therethat really like to you're one
of them you know you like to runmost days taking a rest day
every seven to ten days rightyou are someone that does like
that higher volume highermileage running every day kind
of thing.
But I would say the majority ofpeople that are training.
(16:12):
Aren't that way?
I would think
Kevin (16:14):
I completely agree.
And I like to run six or sevendays out of the week, but no one
would look at my training planand suggest that I am a high
mileage athlete for thedistances that I am racing.
No one is looking at my plan andbeing like, Whoa, that is a
super high mileage runner.
I'm just not, I don't have thetime involved to put up the
mileage that would suggest highmileage runner.
(16:36):
But like you said, you can lookoverall at what.
Elite athletes do and try andget some vague takeaways.
It's when you dive into thedetails and try and be like,
okay, they're doing this.
I run slower.
So I will do this version ofthat exact workout.
I think the more details youdive into the trickier it gets
(16:56):
to train equate an elite to anon elite.
I was just talking with a friendabout this the other day of how
is it that these world recordsare going down?
How are they able to run thatfast for that far?
That just seems nuts.
In this case, we were talkingabout, someone going after the
hundred mile world record thatthe hundred mile world record
(17:18):
is, I think it's roughly six 50per mile.
That is insane to be running six50 per mile for just under 11,
11 straight hours.
That
Angie (17:29):
is insane,
Kevin (17:30):
but here's where the crazy part goes.
He said, how does he possibly gothat fast?
I'm like, because it doesn'tfeel fast at all.
Because you're talking aboutsomebody and then I immediately
go to Kipchoge because peopleknow the name and it's a good
name to drop.
When he broke 2 hours for themarathon, he was running about 4
minutes and 20 seconds per mile,roughly.
(17:52):
We're going to round for easynumbers.
That means his ability to runfor two straight hours was a
pace that he could do for 20miles.
Most people listening maystruggle to hold four minutes
and 20 seconds for a lap of thetrack, a half a lap of the
track.
He's doing it for two hours.
(18:12):
So when he goes out and runs atsix minute pace, that's a jog
for him.
Which means if he'd slowed downto seven minute pace that feels
a walk jog That's how people areable to run that quote unquote
fast because for their runningefficiency They're running
economy.
It's not fast It's so muchslower than a pace that they
(18:33):
could sustain for an hour fortwo hours That it feels so much
more comfortable for them Sowhen you're trying to make a
workout Their numbers are soridiculously different that you
can't compare the two numbers.
You can compare efforts, buttrying to compare paces just
does not even make sense.
Angie (18:53):
Yeah, I think that's a really good point.
And we talk to our athletesabout this all the time on our
team, like someone that willlook at your workouts and your
paces and are just like, Oh myGod, I can't even imagine.
It's yes, but that's his RPE.
That's his.
effort level five, right?
That's his effort level three.
So for you, that seems likethat's going to be your effort
(19:13):
level nine, but that's not whatit is for him.
And so that's why effort levelsand RPE, your rating of
perceived exertion is soimportant.
And that's a perfect segue intothe next thing we want to talk
about, which is polarizedtraining.
And polarized training, there'sbeen a lot more research done on
the effectiveness of polarizedtraining.
(19:33):
So let's first define what thatmeans so that you understand and
then we'll get into why thismode of training is something
that you're going to definitelywant to consider if you are
following any sort of trainingplan right now.
So basically polarized trainingmeans that like you're focusing
on the two ends.
if you think about a line or apole, the, slow end of the pole,
(19:55):
like where the pace feels reallyeasy versus the high end, the
opposite end of the pole, whereyour pace feels really hard.
So I like to think of it like asa number line from zero to 10.
So on one end, we're looking atzero to two is the easy and then
not really zero, but like one tothree, I'll say is your easy.
And then at the other end, yourhard is like that eight, nine,
(20:16):
10 level.
And so polarized training isbasically spending most of your
time training at those two endsof the spectrum and little to no
training in the middle,depending on what your focus is.
But that's essentially thedefinition of polarized training
is really, you have easy daysand you have hard days and you
don't have a lot of that mediumto moderate effort levels in
(20:38):
your training,
Kevin (20:39):
right?
And I think that this came.
I want to say nineties training.
I think this was a big push thatcame out of eighties nineties
where Jack Daniels got verypopular.
because he talked about themiddle area as being like a gray
training dead zone,
Angie (20:53):
the junk miles
Kevin (20:54):
where it was like, you don't want to really train in
the middle cause you're notgetting anything out of it.
And.
That's not exactly true.
There's a lot of benefit fortraining there, but when you're
looking at polarized, it is verymuch your training looks like a
barbell.
You got a bunch of stuff on oneside, you got a bunch of stuff
on the other side, and you havevery little in the middle so
that you can work your verydifferent energy systems within
(21:15):
the body.
You get really good at runningslowly, but you're also making
sure that you're focused onpower and speed by doing your
fast stuff plenty fast.
Angie (21:24):
Yeah, so you if you want to think about this, it's
brewing the perfect cup ofcoffee.
if your water is too hot, itburns the beans.
If it's too cold, you don'textract enough flavor.
So your training needs to havethe right balance of intensity,
just like your coffee needs theright brewing temperature.
So Most runners and a lot oftraining plans out there that
(21:45):
don't really give you, effortlevels in your training or
paces, a lot of runners whenthey go out and run, they just
go out and run at that moderateeffort almost all of the time.
And if you're someone, ifsomeone that's new to running,
you can just ask yourself on ascale of 1 to 10, how hard do
your runs feel?
And when I ask most runners thatquestion, they say somewhere
around a level 5 Some say 4,some say 6, some say 7.
(22:08):
Some are up in the 8910 range,so that's just what most runners
naturally fall into is thatmoderate level of intensity, but
what if you could get betterresults by going easy?
Most of the time.
Now we're talking about like alevel two to three out of 10 and
then also adding in some harderstuff, which is actually really
(22:29):
fun.
And when our athletes come intoour program, we train a lot of
people using this polarizedmethod.
and we do.
Depending on what they'retraining for, we also do add
some.
moderate intensity stuff.
Again, this depends on who youare, how long you've been
running.
So it's not that you only do thetwo ends of the spectrum.
there is some room for thatmoderate training, but it's
(22:53):
probably less than you think itis.
Kevin (22:55):
Yeah.
And it is.
very much from one person to thenext.
It depends on your trainingexperience, where you pointed
out a lot of new runners come inand they're doing almost all of
their running at moderate.
if you change that and eliminatethe moderate, where you've got a
whole bunch of experience.
And move it to easy running andhard running.
This is going to give you abrand new tube, brand new
(23:17):
stimuli, and you will seemassive improvements all of a
sudden.
If you're new to running andyou're just trying to figure out
where do I go, then making surethat you include some moderate
running might be beneficial.
If you've been running for along time, making sure that you
have all sorts of differentzones is going to be important.
But as a brand new runner, it'stricky to find all of these
(23:38):
zones.
Because, you say.
that the runners come back andthey tell us, Oh, all of my runs
feel like a seven and eight.
It feels like a nine.
It feels like I'm just going todrop and collapse to the ground
when I finish.
That's because a lot of brandnew runners, as soon as they
start running, it feels reallyhard.
And their body's just ah, thisis super, super hard.
I can't do this.
And everything just feelsbrutal.
(24:00):
They're going too hard and itmight be medium effort, but
their brain freaks out and says,this is super hard.
This is impossible.
I can't do it.
And they go as hard as, as faras they can and they finish and
they're just exhausted.
And that feels like an eight,nine.
And if you get comfortable withslowing down to easy, and then
you can realize that you canactually go faster than what
(24:22):
that eight, nine felt like.
As long as you do it for shorterperiods of time.
Angie (24:25):
Yeah.
And I think that this is reallywhat leads a lot of people to
say that they don't like runningand that's what breaks my heart,
right?
Cause it's running is so goodfor you and it can be so freeing
and so fun and such an amazingway to get outside and enjoy
nature and challenge yourselfand all of these different
things.
And.
But when you have thatexperience where running feels
(24:46):
terrible and you just want tojust lie on the ground after
your run and take a nap, ofcourse, you're not going to want
to continue to do it day afterday, like it makes perfect sense
why you're going to losemotivation if your runs are
feeling that way.
And that's why this polarizedtraining model is so important.
Making most of your runs easy.
(25:08):
It's going to make running waymore enjoyable.
First of all, and when it's moreenjoyable, you're going to be
more consistent.
And if you're more consistent,you're going to see improvement.
And when you see improvement,you're going to want to keep
doing it, right?
So it's this beautiful cyclethat's going to actually keep
you in it.
I also want to talk about whythis model is even more
important for women.
(25:29):
Okay, it's important for men,but even more so for women,
especially if you're a womanover 40 and you're noticing a
lot of hormone changes as youenter perimenopause and
menopause.
So women in general have ahigher reliance on fat oxidation
for endurance, which means fatis our preferred fuel source for
(25:49):
endurance running.
Whereas men typically use moreglycogen, which is the stored
form of glucose in the body morethan women do.
Okay.
So here's the kicker.
Fat oxidation requires oxygen inorder to.
Operate.
And if you don't, if you'rebreathing too hard and you're
(26:09):
not getting enough oxygen intothe body, it's going to be very
difficult for your body tooxidize fat in order to use for
endurance.
So when you run at a slower paceand do more of that lower
intensity type of training, ithelps to improve the efficiency
of your fat burning system,which means you're burning more
fat, which is what a lot ofwomen want and why a lot of
(26:31):
women get into running in thefirst place.
Now, those women do.
That are over the age of 40,which I'm pretty sure is the
majority of the people thatlisten to this podcast.
We have to understand that asour estrogen and progesterone
levels are declining as we enterand get closer to menopause,
this can also affect musclerecovery and energy levels,
(26:53):
which makes our rest and ourlower intensity in our easy days
much more Important and evenmore essential than they were
before we were 40 because ourbody just doesn't recover from
those moderate efforts the sameway that it used to and this is
why so many women when they getinto this phase are like, I
don't understand what's goingon.
I am training the same way thatI've always trained.
(27:15):
I'm running the same distance.
I'm trying to run the same paceand all of a sudden my normal
paces feel.
awful.
They feel so much harder.
I feel exhausted.
It's taking me forever torecover in between my runs.
what is going on?
It's because your body's notable to recover the same way
that it used to because of thechanges in your hormones.
Kevin (27:33):
Yeah, on the male side.
men, it Running at a slowerpace.
You don't fat ox as well aswomen do which is unfortunate
And there's not really a goodway to train it, which is also
unfortunate.
So you just have to feed it buton the other side men because of
their testosterone levels needto especially as they crest over
(27:54):
40 need to focus on thesprinting side.
And in order to actually be ableto run fast enough that you can
hit L8, 9 and 10, you need tobalance that with L1 and 2.
You can't really balance it asmuch with L5 because you're not
recovering at all.
Angie (28:10):
Yeah.
And we as women also need to befocusing on those higher
intensity levels as well.
If we want to maintain muscle,build stronger bone.
And it also helps with, epoch,which is, your fat burning after
exercise as well.
it's that post exercise oxygenconsumption that can lead to fat
burning even after you're doneexercising.
(28:30):
So high intensity.
Work is very important for bothsexes in this case
Kevin (28:35):
for both sexes.
And the only way to really hitthe high intensities is to make
sure that your other days areeasy enough that you can then
hit high on the high days.
Angie (28:43):
Yeah, and it was interesting.
that's really why it's soimportant for you to build a
training plan that's going tofit you in your life and the
current goal that you.
Our training for because I thinkthat's a really important piece
that a lot of people miss isthey think, okay, my training
should just look the same yearround.
And that couldn't be furtherfrom the truth.
(29:03):
It's important for you to focuson different things during
different cycles of yourtraining.
And when you use these trainingcycles wisely and stack them
onto each other, That's when youcan get really good benefits.
So I found this reallyinteresting study about
polarized training and it waslooking at the difference
between polarized training andpyramidal training and different
(29:24):
things specifically, inendurance athletes and what they
found was that.
Polarized training has a greaterimpact on key endurance.
Variables, right?
So your endurance actuallyimproves when you use polarized
training, but one of theinteresting pieces of this study
that's not in the headline isthat when you're looking at body
(29:46):
mass and body composition,polarized training is not
necessarily the best thing foryou to do.
It's more of that high intensityinterval training.
So If you're going for fat lossand body recomposition, high
intensity interval training ismore of what you want to focus
on.
So you can see why, okay,polarized training you're
telling me is more, is betterfor helping me to improve my
(30:08):
endurance, but high intensityinterval training is better for
my body composition, but I wantboth, right?
I want both and I want to doboth at the same time.
Can you see how that can be aproblem?
Because one is going to be moreeffective.
And it's not that polarizedtraining doesn't work for body
composition, because you candefinitely see body composition
changes when you do polarizedtraining.
(30:30):
But again, this depends on you.
It depends on your body type.
It depends on your level ofexperience.
Like, how long have you beentraining?
What have you been doing as faras strength training goes?
there's so many different keyvariables that play a role into
how your body responds totraining, but this is why cycle
stacking and having a different.
goal for each cycle and eachtraining, segment of your year,
(30:54):
it can be so very effective andstacking those together in a way
that is right for you and thegoals that you want to achieve.
That's what makes your plan morepersonalized.
Kevin (31:04):
you go back to your metaphor that started this sort
of concept here of when you'retrying to brew coffee, it
depends on what type of coffeeyou're trying to brew.
it depends on what mood you'rein on that particular morning.
Do you want it to be a strongercup of coffee that morning?
Yes.
You always want to.
Dark
Angie (31:20):
roast for the win.
Strong, bold.
Yes.
Kevin (31:24):
Can I chew it?
Perfect.
It sounds like a win, but Ithink that's important.
And that kind of highlights, itrolls your marathon, your
metaphor through of, it reallydepends on what the results are,
because it's tough to get all ofthe same results simultaneously.
And if you are trying to chasemultiple results, At the exact
same time.
It's going to be reallydifficult to achieve all of
(31:44):
them.
And in which case you mightactually achieve none.
Angie (31:47):
Yeah.
And that's where I get reallysad for people, because like
people that are putting in thework, like if you're listening
to a running podcast, chancesare you are out there putting in
the work and if you're notseeing the results that you
want, that can be a reallyfrustrating place to be.
And it makes sense why peoplestart to lose motivation.
And they're all asking, askthemselves, what is even
happening?
Is this even worth it anymore?
(32:08):
And a lot of people end upfalling off the wagon and I hate
that for you because I want you,if you're someone that loves
running or did love running atone point in time and maybe
you're not loving it right nowbecause of the way that your
body's feeling, I want you tounderstand that.
But it is possible for you to goback and feel that love, that
joy, feel like that amazingfeeling that running has given
(32:30):
you in the past.
You just have to change howyou're doing it, right?
Because if you think aboutGoogle Maps versus a traditional
road map, when you drove acrossthe country to move from
California to Florida and youwent to triple a, right?
To get all of the.
I had
Kevin (32:48):
every state that we crossed through.
We crossed through some statesso briefly, I had the full state
map.
Angie (32:52):
Yeah, but you had to look at the actual paper map and.
But those don't adjust in realtime, versus Google Maps, which
is such a beautiful thing.
Google Maps will reroute you ifyou just take the wrong exit.
All of a sudden it'll bererouting, and it'll tell you
exactly what you need to go.
Or you'll be driving down thehighway and it'll recognize that
there's an accident up ahead orthat there's construction up
(33:13):
ahead.
And it'll change your route foryou.
It can adjust in real time.
And so this is why it's soimportant for your training plan
to also be able to do the samething.
you, your training plan needs toadapt to you, to your current
life situation, and needs to beable to adapt to some of those
unexpected things that might popup in real life.
Kevin (33:34):
But it can't be finally tuned that it sees a small
accident that's going to cause afive minute detour within the
next 10 minutes, but you've gota 10 hour drive up ahead and
suddenly it's sending you onthis crazy route.
It's no, it's only going todetour you.
If it finds a more efficientroute, like the paper maps did a
(33:54):
pretty good job because theanswer for most of my drive
across the country was get on 10and drive east.
I didn't really need a lot ofadaptation along the way because
it was get on 10 and go untilit's time to sleep.
And then it was find a hotel forthe most part.
There was just a route.
There wasn't a lot of need forrerouting.
(34:14):
if you have a lot of need forrerouting, if there's a lot of
variability coming up in yourlife that you need the ability
to have some more fine tuning,that's important, but if you
also have big goals that you'dlike to accomplish over the next
five, 10 years, it's alsoimportant that you are not
getting too far thrown off ofthe main direction that you're
moving in.
Angie (34:33):
Absolutely.
And that's why, last week Italked about nervous system
regulation and the importance ofyour nervous system in it.
Learning how to adapt yourtraining and the tools of heart
rate variability using your HRVor your resting heart rate or
just your rating of perceivedexertion again, like checking in
with yourself and asking, how doI feel today and then
(34:54):
understanding, okay, I can makethese small adjustments to my
training plan based on how Ifeel, how I'm recovering all the
other things that are going onin my life, because that is
ultimately what's going to leadto the best results.
So basically you can.
Okay.
Choose right now.
You can decide to keep grindingthrough a plan that doesn't work
for your body That has youfeeling exhausted and sore all
(35:16):
the time or you can choose totrain in a way that gives you
more energy fewer injuries andbetter results so ultimately
that choice is up to you and wejust want you to understand that
the way that you're training isMakes a really big difference in
how you feel in the results thatyou get
Kevin (35:34):
It makes a big difference in the enjoyment that you have
and you said this already, but Ithink it's always worth
repeating is The way that youfeel when you run leads to the
amount of joy you have on thatrun and the joy Helps lead to
consistency Every day you're notgoing to come back with a giant
smile on your face like woo.
That was amazing But the betterexperience it was the more
(35:56):
positive it was the moreconsistent you're gonna be and
the more consistent you areBeats anything like whatever
training plan method you have aslong as it doesn't get you hurt
The more consistent you can bewith that plan, the better your
results are going to be.
So I think that joy is leadingthe drive for most of your
training success.
Not necessarily how much milescan I put in, but how much
(36:18):
smiles can I put in?
That's right.
I came up with that on the fly.
Do you like
Angie (36:21):
that?
Was that influenced by our girlstrip to the orthodontist today?
Ooh, it was perfect.
So yeah, check out the way thatyou're training and understand
where your training plan iscoming from.
And consider polarized trainingwhere you're doing more mileage,
spending most of your time inthat easy range and then doing
harder, high intensity types oftraining.
(36:42):
That's often going to lead tosome better results.
And then you can also throw insome cross training in there,
which we didn't really have thetime to get into today, but
maybe we'll do that in anupcoming episode.
So let us know on Instagram atreal life runners.
Are you someone that practicespolarized training?
What have you seen?
What questions do you have?
Reach out, shoot me a DM.
(37:03):
I'd love to know any questionsthat you have after this
episode.
And as always, this has been theReal Life Runners podcast,
episode number 398.
Now get out there and run yourlife.
For decades, marathon training and really endurance
(00:03):
running training in general hasfollowed a pretty simple
formula, run more miles and getfaster.
But what if that's not the bestapproach, especially for you?
most training plans today arejust watered down versions of
elite.
programs.
They assume that recreationalrunners are just slower elites,
when in reality the differencesgo much deeper.
(00:25):
Elite runners often have geneticadvantages, different recovery
capacities, and a lifestylebuilt around training.
So why are we, as real liferunners, Following the same
blueprint and expecting the sameresults.
In this episode today, we'regoing to be diving into the
evolution of marathon trainingand also just training in
general.
So even if you're not trainingfor a marathon, this will still
(00:46):
apply to you.
And the science behind polarizedtraining.
So little.
spoiler alert, more miles is notalways better and why your
training plan needs to adapt toyour life, not the other way
around.
We've talked about that multipletimes on the podcast, but today
we're going to take a little bitof a different spin on it.
So by the end of today'sepisode, you're going to
(01:06):
understand how to train smarter,not just harder and how to build
a plan that works with your bodyand not against it.
So stay tuned.
(01:37):
What's up runners.
Welcome to the show today.
We're talking about polarizedtraining, the best way to train,
which I know is a topic that alot of you love talking about,
especially you, Kevin.
Kevin (01:48):
I do.
I do love training.
I think I should be wearing aheadband and some tall socks so
we can talk about how to trainlike 80s athletes.
Angie (01:55):
Ooh, in really short shorts.
you still
Kevin (01:57):
have really, you already
Angie (01:58):
rocked those.
Yeah, exactly.
But it is funny because those ofyou might not know this.
Kevin does have differentlengths of running shorts
depending on where he's running,which is good.
if he's doing our school 5k,especially if our high school
daughter is going to be presentand nearby, he opts for the
longer shorts.
Kevin (02:16):
Yeah.
As the, as our daughter got.
older.
The shorts that I wore to runthat race definitely got a lot
longer.
Angie (02:21):
Yes.
did you used to wear shortshorts?
I don't think you ever reallywore the short shorts.
I never wore
Kevin (02:26):
my like, my normal racing shorts.
Normal.
Angie (02:29):
I like your shorty shorts.
Yeah.
Kevin (02:31):
My racing shorts is what I would like racing
Angie (02:34):
shorts.
Yeah.
So today we're going to get intotraining plans in general.
And a lot of runners have thisidea that more is better.
if I want to get better, if Iwant to improve my endurance, if
I want to improve my speed, if Iwant to improve my pace, all I
have to do is keep running more.
And you might even think I alsojust need to keep pushing myself
(02:54):
harder.
And today I hope by the end ofthis episode, you're going to
let go of those faulty beliefsbecause they are not true for
most runners.
Especially if you are arecreational runner, what we
like to think of as a real liferunner over the age of 40, we
have to let go of this wholeidea of more is better and
harder is better because thosedon't always apply.
Kevin (03:16):
It's such an easy idea to fall into because when you first
get into running it almost Doesapply universally across the
board that when you, you startrunning and you're doing like
five to 10 miles a week and youmove that up 15 miles a week,
you get faster and you're like,Oh, this is fantastic.
(03:36):
I should just keep running more.
But you can see the problem withthis.
If 15 is better than 10 and 20is better than 15 at some point,
you're going to hit a numberthat's not better.
Like at some point, like 3000 isnot better.
So clearly there's an upperlimit to this.
There is faulty logic.
But when you first get intorunning, when you're first
(03:56):
trying to make these connectionsof how do I improve a little bit
more is very often better.
Angie (04:02):
Yeah.
And I want to really.
Make this point because a lot ofpeople don't understand like
where traditional training planscome from like you go into an
app or you go On a website andyou look up a training plan
You're like, okay I'm gonnatrain for a half marathon or a
marathon and you look uptraining plans, right?
You go into Google and say likemarathon training plan.
(04:22):
What pops up is oftentimes basedon plans that were developed for
elite runners.
And then they just scale backthat mileage.
Cause most recreational runnersare not running a hundred to 150
miles per week, which is what alot of elite marathoners are
running.
Kevin (04:38):
Oh yeah.
You take most elite marathoners.
I think at the low end, you'reprobably going to get,
especially if you dive into thefemale side, you're going to get
probably 70 to.
people putting in crazy miles,130 ish miles a week, which used
to be even higher.
Like it used to be almostunheard of to get top marathon,
especially male marathoners tobe doing anything below triple
(04:58):
digits.
Now you're looking at ultrarunners out there who are not
even hitting triple digits perweek and still winning high
level ultra marathons.
Angie (05:08):
Yeah, so this whole idea is definitely starting to shift,
which I think is a really goodthing, especially as a physical
therapist, because I understandhow many runners get injured
every single year for moneyinjuries.
One of the, one study I justlooked up, it was published in
2023, they did a review of otherstudies based on kind of an
anonymous study that they sentout to runners.
(05:30):
There was over 600 participantsthat responded to this survey.
84 0.
4 percent of people said thatthey had experienced some
running injury at some point intheir lives, and 76 percent of
these respondents were female,which I really liked because so
many times you'll get it theopposite way, and I love how
many more females are gettinginto running too, but it is
(05:51):
really important for us to knowthis is 84 percent of people.
Of runners get injured and likeabout 46%.
It was just under 50 percentsaid that they had some sort of
running related injury in thelast year, like within that last
12 months.
And so this is really importantfor us to look at, because based
on another study that I hadlooked at, it said that people
that run over 19 miles per weektend to have a higher risk of
(06:15):
injury.
And I'm not saying that nobodyshould run more than 19 miles a
week, because clearly that's notthe case, especially if you're
training for a marathon.
But.
It's the time period for us tolook at this and say, okay,
we've got these differentstudies that are showing runners
get injured, very frequently.
Then we've got this other studythat's showing that, there is
this kind of mileage thresholdthat they see above and below,
(06:38):
that kind of mileage thatthey're.
does tend to be an increasedrisk of running injuries.
So what do we do with thatinformation?
Because it's not that it's justthe mileage alone.
That's the problem.
It's the way that we'retraining.
I think that becomes more of theproblem.
And that's why we really have tolook at the training plans and
so many of these training plans.
(06:58):
We're based on this idea of justrunning more or taking a plan
from an elite runner or an elitecoach There's lots of historical
coaches you know, you're muchmore familiar with those guys
than I am and just watering themdown and bringing them down to a
Quote unquote, normal Mileagelevel, but that doesn't really
work that way.
It's like trying to make a loafof gluten free bread based on a
(07:24):
traditional bread recipe.
You can't just substitute glutenfree flour, even though they
tell you that you can.
There's that one to onesubstitution right of like
gluten free flour.
You can't just put in almondflour or like coconut flour
instead of whole wheat flour.
You're not going to get the sameloaf.
At all.
It's not going to taste thesame.
It's not going to look the same.
It's probably not going to riselike there's gonna be all sorts
(07:47):
of problems with that loaf.
So you can't just substitute onefor the other.
Kevin (07:50):
theoretically, you can substitute the bag suggests that
you can sub the one flower forthe other.
But
Angie (07:55):
even that one to one flower is a combination of
flowers.
It's not just one.
So I think that's reallyimportant, too.
Kevin (08:01):
Yeah, because it doesn't really work.
I want to go back to that.
You pointed out that they foundthat this magic number of 19,
which is clearly Yeah, That wasjust statistically where that
study happened to find a changein numbers.
That's not where it is, butwhat's behind that?
And this part is us creatingsome speculation off of it.
Once you go above a certainmileage, you probably start
(08:25):
losing certain other importantthings out of your training.
You probably are now so focusedon making sure that you're
hitting enough mileage thatmaybe your strength training
goes by the wayside.
Or maybe at lower mileage, youdidn't need as much strength for
your body to handle the load ofmileage.
And so maybe it wasn't thatstrength training went by the
wayside.
(08:45):
Maybe you were getting bywithout like you were in the
danger zone, but you hadn'tpushed it quite far enough that
the fact that you were too weakwas actually not creating an
issue yet.
And then you went over whateverthat threshold was.
averaged out among that group tobe 19.
It said that 19 is number.
It was probably 15 for somepeople and 30 for others, but
(09:07):
there's a number.
Angie (09:07):
Yeah.
It's the same thing as cadence,right?
180 steps per minute is not themagical cadence number, but that
was just the median between,like when they looked at the
different studies, there wassome people at one 60, there
were some people at 200 and one80 was in the middle.
So that's where they landed.
Kevin (09:22):
Got to hate that study.
That study is five people andthe median was 180.
That was such, it's only fivepeople.
It's five.
It's five ultra marathonrunners.
That's wild.
And the person that won the racehad a cadence of 180, or sorry,
of one 60.
And the person that got secondhad 200.
And so how could, how come 180is the best?
Angie (09:40):
Yeah, I mean it's the average of the two.
but this is the point too,right?
We real life runners are notjust smaller, slower versions of
elites like we have differentingredients like elite runners
that are winning marathons allover the world and in the
Olympics, those people havedifferent genetic makeups than
(10:02):
most of us, I would argue.
I'm just
Kevin (10:03):
going to say it.
They're genetic freaks in thebest way possible.
They are genetic anomalies andyou can do a lot of different
training with them that mostpeople cannot necessarily do and
adapt in the same way.
Angie (10:17):
And the way that their lifestyles are.
Also adapted for that kind oftraining, whereas we have all
sorts of other life demands likewe have family and we have
stress and we have recoverylimitations and we've got work
and we've got all these otherthings and so our body, even if
we did put the same recipe inright, like the same mileage and
(10:38):
shrink training, all the thingsthat the elites are doing, we're
not going to get the sameoutput.
We can't take a two hour napevery single day.
We don't have access to amassage therapist for our daily
massage or a nutritionist or achef, like all these things that
the elite runners have to helpmake them into the best runners
(10:58):
on the planet.
That's not how most of us areoperating the majority of us
Kevin (11:02):
No And then you get those stories of the Olympians that
are like they're also a parentlike the mom Olympians where
you're like, okay, but they dohave real existence like with it
They're trying to figure outlike can I get child care
coverage that I can go work outfor a couple of hours?
Like how do I make this all workand I go back to genetic anomaly
(11:25):
like There's a reason why thatperson was an Olympian before
they were, they had a kid andthere's a reason they're going
to be able to go back and be anOlympian after they have a kid.
And it's that there is, there'ssome genetic component to this
that they won.
Like they won genetic lotteryand yes, they're putting in an
insane amount of work.
But if I put in that same amountof work, I'm not necessarily
(11:46):
getting those same results.
It's just not happening.
Angie (11:49):
Yeah.
And I think that's really where.
All of this kind of comes in iswhy are we trying to use someone
else's ingredients for our body?
Wouldn't we get better resultsif we had a plan that was
designed for your uniqueingredients your body?
And that's really where thatsmart adaptable training plan
(12:09):
comes in that balances thestress and the recovery and the
performance for your bestresults for the way that your
body operates in your Real lifebecause so many runners think,
if I just run more, then I'llget faster, then I'll get
stronger.
But what we have to understandis that more is not always
better.
Sometimes more is just morestress on our body without the
(12:33):
results that we want.
And sometimes it even leads tomore breakdown in the.
Yeah,
Kevin (12:40):
I would argue that if you look back to when more was
better, was like a big push.
We're looking at like 80s and90s, even like 70s, 80s, 90s.
One of your premier coaches atthe time is Alberto Salazar, and
everybody can have their ownthoughts on Alberto, but he
pushed the limits on everythingthat he could possibly push.
And one of them was how muchmiles can we possibly throw at a
(13:02):
human and see if it works?
You look at colleges at thattime, there were a lot of
programs that were basicallythrowing as many miles at
runners as they could.
And whoever was still standing,those were your diamonds.
Angie (13:14):
There's still high school programs that do that as well.
There are some around us.
Kevin (13:17):
There are plenty of programs that do this because If
you throw a whole lot ofmileage, what are you going to
get?
You're going to get some hurtathletes, but you are also going
to be able to find the cream ofthe crop really nicely because
those ones that didn't break.
So this is going to work.
It helps you find geneticanomalies.
That's what you get left with.
And you're like, man, my team isonly filled with great athletes.
(13:39):
No, it's not.
You broke all the athletes thatcouldn't handle your program.
You, your team could have beenfull of a whole lot of great
athletes, but you only went withone method.
the reason why the world recordsfrom the eighties, as long as
they weren't caused by illegalsubstances are all getting
broken is because we foundbetter training techniques.
Just throwing more mileage isnot the solution to this.
(14:02):
We don't
Angie (14:03):
forget super shoes.
Kevin (14:04):
okay.
Yes.
There's super shoes also.
I'm not going to say thateverything is necessarily the
cleanest now because there wascertainly a time when EPO was
just blazing through the world.
But, there, there are otherreasons that world records are
dropping like crazy right now.
And it is one of the reasons iswe're not just saying more
mileage is always the correctanswer.
Angie (14:25):
And I think that while it is really important for us to.
Acknowledge that elite runnersaren't just faster versions of
everyday runners and we, or viceversa, we're not just slow
versions of elites like we haveto understand that these elite
runners do have the geneticadvantages in VO two max in
muscle fiber composition inrunning economy, like their body
(14:47):
just responds to trainingdifferently than most of us.
And that is something that wedefinitely need to recognize.
At the same time, while we don'twant to take their exact
training plan and just water itdown and just decrease the
mileage on it, we can look atwhat the elites are doing and
adapt them to our real life,take what they're doing as an
(15:10):
example and say, okay, I seethat they're adding in more
strength training, notnecessarily that, okay, we have
to perform six reps of thisexact thing at this amount of my
one rep max, blah, blah, blah,blah.
Like sometimes if we get toodeep into the details and in the
weeds, that's what I think wherewe start to get into a problem
here, but we can look at overallwhat they're doing, how they're
(15:32):
balancing the running and howthey're balancing strength
training.
But what we have to alsounderstand is so many of these
elite runners and so many ofthese.
Classic traditional marathonplans are based on six days of
running at least right six toseven days of running and
sometimes they even have tworuns per day like a lot of the
(15:52):
elites are doing that most of usaren't training that way like
there are some people out therethat really like to you're one
of them you know you like to runmost days taking a rest day
every seven to ten days rightyou are someone that does like
that higher volume highermileage running every day kind
of thing.
But I would say the majority ofpeople that are training.
(16:12):
Aren't that way?
I would think
Kevin (16:14):
I completely agree.
And I like to run six or sevendays out of the week, but no one
would look at my training planand suggest that I am a high
mileage athlete for thedistances that I am racing.
No one is looking at my plan andbeing like, Whoa, that is a
super high mileage runner.
I'm just not, I don't have thetime involved to put up the
mileage that would suggest highmileage runner.
(16:36):
But like you said, you can lookoverall at what.
Elite athletes do and try andget some vague takeaways.
It's when you dive into thedetails and try and be like,
okay, they're doing this.
I run slower.
So I will do this version ofthat exact workout.
I think the more details youdive into the trickier it gets
(16:56):
to train equate an elite to anon elite.
I was just talking with a friendabout this the other day of how
is it that these world recordsare going down?
How are they able to run thatfast for that far?
That just seems nuts.
In this case, we were talkingabout, someone going after the
hundred mile world record thatthe hundred mile world record
(17:18):
is, I think it's roughly six 50per mile.
That is insane to be running six50 per mile for just under 11,
11 straight hours.
That
Angie (17:29):
is insane,
Kevin (17:30):
but here's where the crazy part goes.
He said, how does he possibly gothat fast?
I'm like, because it doesn'tfeel fast at all.
Because you're talking aboutsomebody and then I immediately
go to Kipchoge because peopleknow the name and it's a good
name to drop.
When he broke 2 hours for themarathon, he was running about 4
minutes and 20 seconds per mile,roughly.
(17:52):
We're going to round for easynumbers.
That means his ability to runfor two straight hours was a
pace that he could do for 20miles.
Most people listening maystruggle to hold four minutes
and 20 seconds for a lap of thetrack, a half a lap of the
track.
He's doing it for two hours.
(18:12):
So when he goes out and runs atsix minute pace, that's a jog
for him.
Which means if he'd slowed downto seven minute pace that feels
a walk jog That's how people areable to run that quote unquote
fast because for their runningefficiency They're running
economy.
It's not fast It's so muchslower than a pace that they
(18:33):
could sustain for an hour fortwo hours That it feels so much
more comfortable for them Sowhen you're trying to make a
workout Their numbers are soridiculously different that you
can't compare the two numbers.
You can compare efforts, buttrying to compare paces just
does not even make sense.
Angie (18:53):
Yeah, I think that's a really good point.
And we talk to our athletesabout this all the time on our
team, like someone that willlook at your workouts and your
paces and are just like, Oh myGod, I can't even imagine.
It's yes, but that's his RPE.
That's his.
effort level five, right?
That's his effort level three.
So for you, that seems likethat's going to be your effort
(19:13):
level nine, but that's not whatit is for him.
And so that's why effort levelsand RPE, your rating of
perceived exertion is soimportant.
And that's a perfect segue intothe next thing we want to talk
about, which is polarizedtraining.
And polarized training, there'sbeen a lot more research done on
the effectiveness of polarizedtraining.
(19:33):
So let's first define what thatmeans so that you understand and
then we'll get into why thismode of training is something
that you're going to definitelywant to consider if you are
following any sort of trainingplan right now.
So basically polarized trainingmeans that like you're focusing
on the two ends.
if you think about a line or apole, the, slow end of the pole,
(19:55):
like where the pace feels reallyeasy versus the high end, the
opposite end of the pole, whereyour pace feels really hard.
So I like to think of it like asa number line from zero to 10.
So on one end, we're looking atzero to two is the easy and then
not really zero, but like one tothree, I'll say is your easy.
And then at the other end, yourhard is like that eight, nine,
(20:16):
10 level.
And so polarized training isbasically spending most of your
time training at those two endsof the spectrum and little to no
training in the middle,depending on what your focus is.
But that's essentially thedefinition of polarized training
is really, you have easy daysand you have hard days and you
don't have a lot of that mediumto moderate effort levels in
(20:38):
your training,
Kevin (20:39):
right?
And I think that this came.
I want to say nineties training.
I think this was a big push thatcame out of eighties nineties
where Jack Daniels got verypopular.
because he talked about themiddle area as being like a gray
training dead zone,
Angie (20:53):
the junk miles
Kevin (20:54):
where it was like, you don't want to really train in
the middle cause you're notgetting anything out of it.
And.
That's not exactly true.
There's a lot of benefit fortraining there, but when you're
looking at polarized, it is verymuch your training looks like a
barbell.
You got a bunch of stuff on oneside, you got a bunch of stuff
on the other side, and you havevery little in the middle so
that you can work your verydifferent energy systems within
(21:15):
the body.
You get really good at runningslowly, but you're also making
sure that you're focused onpower and speed by doing your
fast stuff plenty fast.
Angie (21:24):
Yeah, so you if you want to think about this, it's
brewing the perfect cup ofcoffee.
if your water is too hot, itburns the beans.
If it's too cold, you don'textract enough flavor.
So your training needs to havethe right balance of intensity,
just like your coffee needs theright brewing temperature.
So Most runners and a lot oftraining plans out there that
(21:45):
don't really give you, effortlevels in your training or
paces, a lot of runners whenthey go out and run, they just
go out and run at that moderateeffort almost all of the time.
And if you're someone, ifsomeone that's new to running,
you can just ask yourself on ascale of 1 to 10, how hard do
your runs feel?
And when I ask most runners thatquestion, they say somewhere
around a level 5 Some say 4,some say 6, some say 7.
(22:08):
Some are up in the 8910 range,so that's just what most runners
naturally fall into is thatmoderate level of intensity, but
what if you could get betterresults by going easy?
Most of the time.
Now we're talking about like alevel two to three out of 10 and
then also adding in some harderstuff, which is actually really
(22:29):
fun.
And when our athletes come intoour program, we train a lot of
people using this polarizedmethod.
and we do.
Depending on what they'retraining for, we also do add
some.
moderate intensity stuff.
Again, this depends on who youare, how long you've been
running.
So it's not that you only do thetwo ends of the spectrum.
there is some room for thatmoderate training, but it's
(22:53):
probably less than you think itis.
Kevin (22:55):
Yeah.
And it is.
very much from one person to thenext.
It depends on your trainingexperience, where you pointed
out a lot of new runners come inand they're doing almost all of
their running at moderate.
if you change that and eliminatethe moderate, where you've got a
whole bunch of experience.
And move it to easy running andhard running.
This is going to give you abrand new tube, brand new
(23:17):
stimuli, and you will seemassive improvements all of a
sudden.
If you're new to running andyou're just trying to figure out
where do I go, then making surethat you include some moderate
running might be beneficial.
If you've been running for along time, making sure that you
have all sorts of differentzones is going to be important.
But as a brand new runner, it'stricky to find all of these
(23:38):
zones.
Because, you say.
that the runners come back andthey tell us, Oh, all of my runs
feel like a seven and eight.
It feels like a nine.
It feels like I'm just going todrop and collapse to the ground
when I finish.
That's because a lot of brandnew runners, as soon as they
start running, it feels reallyhard.
And their body's just ah, thisis super, super hard.
I can't do this.
And everything just feelsbrutal.
(24:00):
They're going too hard and itmight be medium effort, but
their brain freaks out and says,this is super hard.
This is impossible.
I can't do it.
And they go as hard as, as faras they can and they finish and
they're just exhausted.
And that feels like an eight,nine.
And if you get comfortable withslowing down to easy, and then
you can realize that you canactually go faster than what
(24:22):
that eight, nine felt like.
As long as you do it for shorterperiods of time.
Angie (24:25):
Yeah.
And I think that this is reallywhat leads a lot of people to
say that they don't like runningand that's what breaks my heart,
right?
Cause it's running is so goodfor you and it can be so freeing
and so fun and such an amazingway to get outside and enjoy
nature and challenge yourselfand all of these different
things.
And.
But when you have thatexperience where running feels
(24:46):
terrible and you just want tojust lie on the ground after
your run and take a nap, ofcourse, you're not going to want
to continue to do it day afterday, like it makes perfect sense
why you're going to losemotivation if your runs are
feeling that way.
And that's why this polarizedtraining model is so important.
Making most of your runs easy.
(25:08):
It's going to make running waymore enjoyable.
First of all, and when it's moreenjoyable, you're going to be
more consistent.
And if you're more consistent,you're going to see improvement.
And when you see improvement,you're going to want to keep
doing it, right?
So it's this beautiful cyclethat's going to actually keep
you in it.
I also want to talk about whythis model is even more
important for women.
(25:29):
Okay, it's important for men,but even more so for women,
especially if you're a womanover 40 and you're noticing a
lot of hormone changes as youenter perimenopause and
menopause.
So women in general have ahigher reliance on fat oxidation
for endurance, which means fatis our preferred fuel source for
(25:49):
endurance running.
Whereas men typically use moreglycogen, which is the stored
form of glucose in the body morethan women do.
Okay.
So here's the kicker.
Fat oxidation requires oxygen inorder to.
Operate.
And if you don't, if you'rebreathing too hard and you're
(26:09):
not getting enough oxygen intothe body, it's going to be very
difficult for your body tooxidize fat in order to use for
endurance.
So when you run at a slower paceand do more of that lower
intensity type of training, ithelps to improve the efficiency
of your fat burning system,which means you're burning more
fat, which is what a lot ofwomen want and why a lot of
(26:31):
women get into running in thefirst place.
Now, those women do.
That are over the age of 40,which I'm pretty sure is the
majority of the people thatlisten to this podcast.
We have to understand that asour estrogen and progesterone
levels are declining as we enterand get closer to menopause,
this can also affect musclerecovery and energy levels,
(26:53):
which makes our rest and ourlower intensity in our easy days
much more Important and evenmore essential than they were
before we were 40 because ourbody just doesn't recover from
those moderate efforts the sameway that it used to and this is
why so many women when they getinto this phase are like, I
don't understand what's goingon.
I am training the same way thatI've always trained.
(27:15):
I'm running the same distance.
I'm trying to run the same paceand all of a sudden my normal
paces feel.
awful.
They feel so much harder.
I feel exhausted.
It's taking me forever torecover in between my runs.
what is going on?
It's because your body's notable to recover the same way
that it used to because of thechanges in your hormones.
Kevin (27:33):
Yeah, on the male side.
men, it Running at a slowerpace.
You don't fat ox as well aswomen do which is unfortunate
And there's not really a goodway to train it, which is also
unfortunate.
So you just have to feed it buton the other side men because of
their testosterone levels needto especially as they crest over
(27:54):
40 need to focus on thesprinting side.
And in order to actually be ableto run fast enough that you can
hit L8, 9 and 10, you need tobalance that with L1 and 2.
You can't really balance it asmuch with L5 because you're not
recovering at all.
Angie (28:10):
Yeah.
And we as women also need to befocusing on those higher
intensity levels as well.
If we want to maintain muscle,build stronger bone.
And it also helps with, epoch,which is, your fat burning after
exercise as well.
it's that post exercise oxygenconsumption that can lead to fat
burning even after you're doneexercising.
(28:30):
So high intensity.
Work is very important for bothsexes in this case
Kevin (28:35):
for both sexes.
And the only way to really hitthe high intensities is to make
sure that your other days areeasy enough that you can then
hit high on the high days.
Angie (28:43):
Yeah, and it was interesting.
that's really why it's soimportant for you to build a
training plan that's going tofit you in your life and the
current goal that you.
Our training for because I thinkthat's a really important piece
that a lot of people miss isthey think, okay, my training
should just look the same yearround.
And that couldn't be furtherfrom the truth.
(29:03):
It's important for you to focuson different things during
different cycles of yourtraining.
And when you use these trainingcycles wisely and stack them
onto each other, That's when youcan get really good benefits.
So I found this reallyinteresting study about
polarized training and it waslooking at the difference
between polarized training andpyramidal training and different
(29:24):
things specifically, inendurance athletes and what they
found was that.
Polarized training has a greaterimpact on key endurance.
Variables, right?
So your endurance actuallyimproves when you use polarized
training, but one of theinteresting pieces of this study
that's not in the headline isthat when you're looking at body
(29:46):
mass and body composition,polarized training is not
necessarily the best thing foryou to do.
It's more of that high intensityinterval training.
So If you're going for fat lossand body recomposition, high
intensity interval training ismore of what you want to focus
on.
So you can see why, okay,polarized training you're
telling me is more, is betterfor helping me to improve my
(30:08):
endurance, but high intensityinterval training is better for
my body composition, but I wantboth, right?
I want both and I want to doboth at the same time.
Can you see how that can be aproblem?
Because one is going to be moreeffective.
And it's not that polarizedtraining doesn't work for body
composition, because you candefinitely see body composition
changes when you do polarizedtraining.
(30:30):
But again, this depends on you.
It depends on your body type.
It depends on your level ofexperience.
Like, how long have you beentraining?
What have you been doing as faras strength training goes?
there's so many different keyvariables that play a role into
how your body responds totraining, but this is why cycle
stacking and having a different.
goal for each cycle and eachtraining, segment of your year,
(30:54):
it can be so very effective andstacking those together in a way
that is right for you and thegoals that you want to achieve.
That's what makes your plan morepersonalized.
Kevin (31:04):
you go back to your metaphor that started this sort
of concept here of when you'retrying to brew coffee, it
depends on what type of coffeeyou're trying to brew.
it depends on what mood you'rein on that particular morning.
Do you want it to be a strongercup of coffee that morning?
Yes.
You always want to.
Dark
Angie (31:20):
roast for the win.
Strong, bold.
Yes.
Kevin (31:24):
Can I chew it?
Perfect.
It sounds like a win, but Ithink that's important.
And that kind of highlights, itrolls your marathon, your
metaphor through of, it reallydepends on what the results are,
because it's tough to get all ofthe same results simultaneously.
And if you are trying to chasemultiple results, At the exact
same time.
It's going to be reallydifficult to achieve all of
(31:44):
them.
And in which case you mightactually achieve none.
Angie (31:47):
Yeah.
And that's where I get reallysad for people, because like
people that are putting in thework, like if you're listening
to a running podcast, chancesare you are out there putting in
the work and if you're notseeing the results that you
want, that can be a reallyfrustrating place to be.
And it makes sense why peoplestart to lose motivation.
And they're all asking, askthemselves, what is even
happening?
Is this even worth it anymore?
(32:08):
And a lot of people end upfalling off the wagon and I hate
that for you because I want you,if you're someone that loves
running or did love running atone point in time and maybe
you're not loving it right nowbecause of the way that your
body's feeling, I want you tounderstand that.
But it is possible for you to goback and feel that love, that
joy, feel like that amazingfeeling that running has given
(32:30):
you in the past.
You just have to change howyou're doing it, right?
Because if you think aboutGoogle Maps versus a traditional
road map, when you drove acrossthe country to move from
California to Florida and youwent to triple a, right?
To get all of the.
I had
Kevin (32:48):
every state that we crossed through.
We crossed through some statesso briefly, I had the full state
map.
Angie (32:52):
Yeah, but you had to look at the actual paper map and.
But those don't adjust in realtime, versus Google Maps, which
is such a beautiful thing.
Google Maps will reroute you ifyou just take the wrong exit.
All of a sudden it'll bererouting, and it'll tell you
exactly what you need to go.
Or you'll be driving down thehighway and it'll recognize that
there's an accident up ahead orthat there's construction up
(33:13):
ahead.
And it'll change your route foryou.
It can adjust in real time.
And so this is why it's soimportant for your training plan
to also be able to do the samething.
you, your training plan needs toadapt to you, to your current
life situation, and needs to beable to adapt to some of those
unexpected things that might popup in real life.
Kevin (33:34):
But it can't be finally tuned that it sees a small
accident that's going to cause afive minute detour within the
next 10 minutes, but you've gota 10 hour drive up ahead and
suddenly it's sending you onthis crazy route.
It's no, it's only going todetour you.
If it finds a more efficientroute, like the paper maps did a
(33:54):
pretty good job because theanswer for most of my drive
across the country was get on 10and drive east.
I didn't really need a lot ofadaptation along the way because
it was get on 10 and go untilit's time to sleep.
And then it was find a hotel forthe most part.
There was just a route.
There wasn't a lot of need forrerouting.
(34:14):
if you have a lot of need forrerouting, if there's a lot of
variability coming up in yourlife that you need the ability
to have some more fine tuning,that's important, but if you
also have big goals that you'dlike to accomplish over the next
five, 10 years, it's alsoimportant that you are not
getting too far thrown off ofthe main direction that you're
moving in.
Angie (34:33):
Absolutely.
And that's why, last week Italked about nervous system
regulation and the importance ofyour nervous system in it.
Learning how to adapt yourtraining and the tools of heart
rate variability using your HRVor your resting heart rate or
just your rating of perceivedexertion again, like checking in
with yourself and asking, how doI feel today and then
(34:54):
understanding, okay, I can makethese small adjustments to my
training plan based on how Ifeel, how I'm recovering all the
other things that are going onin my life, because that is
ultimately what's going to leadto the best results.
So basically you can.
Okay.
Choose right now.
You can decide to keep grindingthrough a plan that doesn't work
for your body That has youfeeling exhausted and sore all
(35:16):
the time or you can choose totrain in a way that gives you
more energy fewer injuries andbetter results so ultimately
that choice is up to you and wejust want you to understand that
the way that you're training isMakes a really big difference in
how you feel in the results thatyou get
Kevin (35:34):
It makes a big difference in the enjoyment that you have
and you said this already, but Ithink it's always worth
repeating is The way that youfeel when you run leads to the
amount of joy you have on thatrun and the joy Helps lead to
consistency Every day you're notgoing to come back with a giant
smile on your face like woo.
That was amazing But the betterexperience it was the more
(35:56):
positive it was the moreconsistent you're gonna be and
the more consistent you areBeats anything like whatever
training plan method you have aslong as it doesn't get you hurt
The more consistent you can bewith that plan, the better your
results are going to be.
So I think that joy is leadingthe drive for most of your
training success.
Not necessarily how much milescan I put in, but how much
(36:18):
smiles can I put in?
That's right.
I came up with that on the fly.
Do you like
Angie (36:21):
that?
Was that influenced by our girlstrip to the orthodontist today?
Ooh, it was perfect.
So yeah, check out the way thatyou're training and understand
where your training plan iscoming from.
And consider polarized trainingwhere you're doing more mileage,
spending most of your time inthat easy range and then doing
harder, high intensity types oftraining.
(36:42):
That's often going to lead tosome better results.
And then you can also throw insome cross training in there,
which we didn't really have thetime to get into today, but
maybe we'll do that in anupcoming episode.
So let us know on Instagram atreal life runners.
Are you someone that practicespolarized training?
What have you seen?
What questions do you have?
Reach out, shoot me a DM.
(37:03):
I'd love to know any questionsthat you have after this
episode.
And as always, this has been theReal Life Runners podcast,
episode number 398.
Now get out there and run yourlife.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Ridiculous History
History is beautiful, brutal and, often, ridiculous. Join Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown as they dive into some of the weirdest stories from across the span of human civilization in Ridiculous History, a podcast by iHeartRadio.