February 27, 2025 • 40 mins
In this episode, Dr. Angie Brown welcomes Dr. Christine Li, a psychologist and procrastination coach, to discuss the roots of procrastination and the challenges of midlife, particularly for women. Dr. Li explains how fear and self-doubt are central to procrastination and the importance of self-kindness and mindfulness in overcoming these barriers. The discussion also delves into the unique challenges faced by women in midlife, including the energy drain from juggling multiple responsibilities and the physical changes associated with aging. Dr. Li introduces her 'Reenergize Your Home' challenge, aiming to help participants declutter their homes and, by extension, their lives. The conversation is insightful, providing practical advice for runners and non-runners alike on maintaining motivation, managing stress, and staying energized through life's transitions.
Dr. Christine Li is a clinical psychologist and Procrastination Coach with over 25 years of experience. She works with women in midlife to clear their mental and physical clutter to reclaim their energy, confidence, and joy. Featured in Oprah Magazine, she specializes in breaking cycles of perfectionism, procrastination, and overwhelm—guiding women to create momentum in their lives with ease. Through her signature program Simply Productive she empowers midlife women to simplify their spaces, habits, and mindset so they can fully step into their power.
She is the host of the Make Time for Success podcast, where she shares actionable strategies on productivity, mindset shifts, and decluttering both internally and externally.
If you want to connect with her, you can find her at the links below!
procrastinationcoach@gmail.com
https://procrastinationcoach.com
https://instagram.com/procrastinationcoach
https://facebook.com/groups/procrastinationcoach
Sign up for Dr. Li's Decluttering Challenge here
00:36 Meet Dr. Christine Li: Procrastination Coach
02:40 Understanding Procrastination
02:53 The Role of Fear and Self-Doubt
04:16 Building Self-Trust and Overcoming Fear
08:12 Motivation vs. Self-Kindness
08:43 Coaching Strategies for Self-Kindness
11:47 The Importance of Kindness Over Judgment
23:32 Rewiring the Brain and Midlife Challenges
29:27 Energy Management in Midlife
34:15 Decluttering for a Reenergized Home
Join the Team! --> https://www.realliferunners.com/team
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Angie (00:00):
Why do we procrastinate on the things that we want, and
(00:03):
how can we start taking actionto achieve those things?
If that's something you've everthought about, today's episode
is perfect for you.
Today I'm welcoming Dr.
Christine Li to the podcast, whois a clinical psychologist and
procrastination coach with over25 years of experience.
I had a great conversation withDr.
Christine Li, and we reallytalked about all the things that
(00:25):
are getting in our way, themyths of motivation, why we
procrastinate, and then reallythe key to overcome
procrastination and.
start taking action towards thethings that we want because
Christine is an expert.
She works with womenspecifically in midlife to help
clear their mental and physicalclutter to reclaim their energy,
confidence, and joy.
(00:45):
And so today we talk about somany things that you can apply
to all different areas of yourlife, especially your running.
And we also, talk about the newupcoming decluttering challenge
that Dr.
Christine Li is running.
So I want to invite you to joinme in that challenge.
It.
It launches next week, the firstweek of March of 2025.
If you want to join me and signup for Dr.
(01:06):
Christine Li's declutteringchallenge, you can head over to
procrastinationcoach.
com forward slash Angie to signup for her five day decluttering
challenge.
So let's jump to today's episodewhere we can talk to Dr.
Christine Li.
(01:45):
All right, everyone, I'm soexcited to bring Dr.
Christine Li here on the podcasttoday.
Welcome, Christine.
I'm so glad you're here.
Christine (01:52):
Thank you, Dr.
Angie Brown.
So good to be here.
So good to see you again.
Angie (01:57):
Yes, definitely.
So Christine, for those of ourlisteners that don't know you
yet, please introduce yourself.
Tell us who are you?
What do you do?
And who do you help?
Christine (02:07):
Hi, everyone, and thanks for being here.
I am a psychologist by training.
I live in New York.
I've been a psychologist forabout 25 years, and I've been
online for about half of thattime, promoting myself and my
work as procrastination coach.
It is a domain name that I foundway back.
(02:30):
Then and I just knew I had tosnap that name up and it's been
a pleasure to have thisparticular mission of helping
people to avoid the sufferingand the drama and the
Unnecessariness ofProcrastinating all the time.
I really work with people whoare Chronically stuck I would
(02:53):
say and really have a lot of Tolearn when it comes to
productivity strategies, mindsetstrategies, energy management
strategies.
And I've worked with so manydifferent types of people and
I've heard so many differentstories and I've done so much of
the procrastinating myself thatthis right now that I'm on the
(03:13):
other side of that bridge, Ifeel like this is just a pure.
Pleasure for me?"To get themessage out, get people on their
feet, get people moving again,and to keep learning about
myself in the process.
So I thank Angie for welcomingme on the show so we can talk
about this stuff.
Angie (03:30):
Yes, absolutely.
And it's so true.
I it's procrastination, I thinkis something that.
Every person suffers from insome way at some point in time,
even if you don't necessarilyconsider yourself a
procrastinator, which, maybe wecan get into, putting that label
on ourselves because I like totalk a lot about identity and
the way that we view ourselves,and how much of an effect that
(03:52):
has on our actions and how weshow up in the world.
But even if you don't consideryourself a press procrastinator
per se, there's definitely timesthat we've all procrastinated on
something.
So can we just talk aboutprocrastination first?
let's just jump in.
what is procrastination?
it's obviously, it's, puttingthings off that we want to do,
but why do we do it?
why do we procrastinate on thethings that we want?
Christine (04:14):
I used to have one answer to that question, and
that answer was fear.
And that makes sense, right?
We're just afraid, even if weknow we're talented enough, or
we've already prepared enough,or we have the time and space
enough, we might just still havethis little, it might even be
teeny tiny fear, but.
A small amount of fear is enoughto hold back a lot of people and
(04:37):
then I did a few more years ofwork with clients and thinking
about this stuff all the time.
I'm really just someone whothinks about this stuff nonstop
and I came to the realizationthat fear is a little more.
To this closer to the surfaceand that the stuff that is
really holding us back is selfdoubt.
(04:57):
And that's something that Ithink is even deeper than fear
because you can have a fear ofother people judging you.
You can have a fear of failure.
You have so many different.
It's like the spice cabinet,right?
That there's a different fearfor a different circumstance,
but underlying that the cabinetthat's holding everything
together is that how you feelabout yourself.
And do you trust yourself and doyou trust.
(05:19):
Yeah.
Trust yourself to get youthrough the next situation.
Do you trust yourself thatyou're going to hold steady that
you're going to be thoughtfulthat you're going to have the
right answers?
And that's a whole game that weplay, I think.
And it's something that we'reconstantly negotiating with
sometimes.
And I believe that the more youbuild that core.
(05:41):
Self-trust up so that you'retesting it, you are meeting
challenges, you are takingrisks, you are doing things that
you think are maybe slightlyinsane, but really enjoying Like
I'm thinking about you runners.
I'm not a runner myself, butthinking about people, I read
about you guys on social mediaand the things that you're doing
right, running in the.
(06:03):
Wilderness running certaindistances that are double what
you even thought was everpossible.
This is, just a part and parcelof developing your self trust.
Angie (06:16):
That's so interesting that you say that because I
think that makes a lot of sensenow, right?
Because there's a lot ofrunners.
That come to work with us that,they know that they want to do
something like say they want totrain for a marathon or a half
marathon, or maybe they've justbeen like falling off the
running wagon and they want toget back on.
They know that running is goodfor them.
They know that it's somethingthat they want to do, but for
(06:39):
some reason there's somethingthat just keeps getting in the
way.
And so you're saying thatreally.
The root of all of that is thisself doubt.
And I think that is sointeresting because when I try,
when I coach and I work withthese people, a lot of that is
what comes out, it's that they,they doubt their ability to
follow through with it.
So I think, so is it, somewherein the back of their mind,
(07:01):
probably subconsciously, is itthe question of, why should I
even start if I'm not going tofollow through?
Christine (07:08):
yeah, that could, that's certainly one angle.
Absolutely.
What are some other angles youthink?
I think fear really just withoutgetting into the mood disorder
area, it depresses our energylevel.
It just sinks us that much,maybe a step lower.
Whenever we go a step lower withour mood slash mindset, I
(07:32):
believe we're going to be alittle less inclined to get to
the starting.
And that we actually need asense of wellness, a sense of
trust that everything is goingto be okay.
A sense that we have enoughenergy inside of us to get to
the finish line.
Like you're saying to do all thepreparation, to make it
worthwhile.
And we're so busy oftentimesmassaging all the fears, all the
(07:57):
different, But our kids have athing and the, I need.
To make dinner and all thethings of daily life can be
clutter enough to prevent youfrom thinking, what about that
feeling that I get when Isuccessfully meet these big
goals?
And we, they tend to feel so faroff.
So not us so unattainable andmaybe not as valuable as they
(08:21):
really are.
So we're really.
Letting our fear take over ourcreative expansive of the part
of us that really enjoys.
accomplishment is one of my highvalues.
Apparently, and I really thinkgo get the thing that you want
to build with your life, right?
If it's running, let it berunning, right?
(08:42):
If it's cooking, let it be that,but always have your nose
pointed towards.
That direction instead of thefear direction, because the fear
is always going to end updampening your mood, dampening
your spirit, dampening yourability to just say, okay, let's
start.
Let's take the first couple ofsteps.
Angie (09:00):
Yeah.
So how do you think we can Tryto find that fear because if you
ask people directly, why are youputting this off a lot of times?
They're not like they don'tanswer.
it's because of the fear.
It's because I'm afraid it'sbecause of this like sometimes
They're not even aware of thatand a lot of times when I talk
to people and I ask, you knowWhat's getting in your way a lot
(09:21):
of them say motivation I justneed more motivation.
What do you have to say aboutmotivation?
do you think we need motivation?
Do you think people lie tothemselves?
Is there a myth surroundingmotivation?
What is your take on that?
Christine (09:34):
I, motivation is not one of my chosen favorite words,
because I think it's really, itcan be a little bit judgmental
when you think about it, right?
oh, the super motivated people,they've got everything that kind
of thing when really all of ushave motivation.
We're all motivated for things.
It's just when we're not payingattention to how important that
(09:57):
motivation is for us that we'refeeling like we don't have
enough to do things.
Okay, so when I.
Work with people.
I always start with the end andsay, that's question number one.
I say, what are you hoping for?
What is your wish?
What is your desire?
What have you been trying tobuild?
And everybody will come up withsomething, even if they haven't
(10:18):
done step 1 to do it, they knowwhat their vision is.
And then the 2nd question I ask.
Is what has been holding youback and it, like you said, it
might not be a straight up fearor they might not realize that,
but they also know what isholding them back.
And then my 3rd question is,what do you think is preventing
(10:39):
you from dealing with that?
Level that prevents you, right?
And that's where you're gettinginto really a whole
conversation.
Each person is so different thatI could not predict.
I could guess, but I could neverreally know what a person is
going through until I'm in aconversation with them about
these 3 questions.
Because we all know thesethings.
(11:01):
I always say.
We know when we'reprocrastinating, we may not want
to do it, but we all know whenwe're doing it.
There's no lie to yourself whenit really comes down to it, but
yet we still will.
The thing that makes it evenmore complicated is when we
start yelling at ourselves andbeing mean to ourselves because
we are hesitating or becausewe're afraid or because we worry
(11:24):
that we don't have enoughmotivation, stamina, energy,
time and space to do it.
That's, I think, I feel likethat's my.
Super specialty is beingteaching people to be really
kind to this themselves, nomatter where they are on the
achievement spectrum, right?
Whether you've been stagnant for4 years or 10 or 20, it doesn't
(11:45):
matter to me.
What matters to me is that Ihelp you see yourself in a
kinder light and that you seethe parts of yourself that are
really itching to get going thatreally know in your heart of
hearts that you have enough todo that.
5k, 10k run that you really haveit and all of these parts are in
(12:08):
us at the same time, sometimesthey're directly battling with
each other, I would say mosttimes that they're not, but I
think because they're all there,you can access a new part of
your identity at any.
Point it helps to have coachingand helps to have support.
It helps to feel safe and ithelps to be well rested well fed
(12:29):
and Exercised right keepingyourself in peak health really
helps But we have to understandthat all of us like you said
Procrastinates sometimes all ofus feel self doubting at times,
maybe a lot.
And I think the first layer thatneeds to just be tossed out the
window is that judgment layer.
(12:50):
because I think you'll find alot of your missing motivation
underneath that heavy, I'm notgood enough.
I'm never going to be worthy.
Yeah.
I need to.
Run to prove my worthiness.
I don't I'm sure you're dealingwith some of that stuff.
Angie (13:05):
There
Christine (13:05):
are people.
Yes.
Angie (13:06):
Yeah So why is that so important?
Like why is kindness soimportant?
like I love what you say thereabout being kind to yourself and
removing that huge blanket ofjudgment that so many of us have
because I think that there aresome people out there that think
that they need to be mean tothemselves in order to Get into
action, right?
(13:26):
if I'm nice to myself, if I'mkind to myself, then I'll just
stay right here.
I won't do anything, but if Iyell at myself and I mean to
myself, then that will spur meinto actions.
And you're saying it is not thatway at all.
So can you go a little bitdeeper on that?
Like, why is kindness moreeffective than judgment?
Christine (13:43):
I want to say my gut reaction is that I want to tell
you my own life story, which islike yelling at yourself.
It's not that complicated.
Yourself nonstop really is a badstrategy.
It really does.
We don't have to go so manylevels deeper because when you
think about it, if I offered youAngie, you and I don't know each
(14:05):
other.
We meet at a.
CVS, where some grocery storeand I offer you a handful of
praise, compliments and lovelywords or a basket of me yelling
at you and telling you that youdidn't do enough and that you
were wrong to even think thatyou could do it.
(14:26):
Which one are you going tochoose?
Angie (14:29):
it's definitely the first one.
Christine (14:30):
obvious answer.
And yet, what do we spend all ofour private, oftentimes private
moments when we're feelingstressed or we're feeling worn
out, those voices tend to be theones that surface, I think it's
the ones where we're not.
Really just saying, like we'rebuttoned up and seats in the
chair, ready to pay attention tothe teacher.
We're not like that.
(14:50):
We're like yelling at ourselves.
the training or the coachingthat I like to do with people is
to just catch those momentswhere you're saying, but, and
you're arguing for that meanpart of yourself for that part
that doesn't feel right.
Good enough.
And again, that part lives inall of us.
We're not going to get rid ofthat part because that's part of
(15:11):
us, part of our history, part ofhow we see ourselves, but we're
going to make that other part bethe boss, be the dominant force,
be the one who makes thedecision, be the one who's
driving the car.
And yeah, we're going to pickthe basket of kindness now,
every time we have a choice,just because you've listened to
me and Angie on this call,you're going to think, oh, yeah,
(15:32):
I don't have to yell at myselffor the hundredth time about the
same thing.
I could just think of a newplan.
I can see myself as a new.
person.
It's perfectly fine to do that.
Angie (15:43):
Yeah.
that makes a lot of sensebecause I know that when I have
people in my life, if I have afriend that is, is doing things
for me, it makes me even more,want to do things for that
person as.
As a, not as a payback, but likewhen you have someone that's
helping you and being nice toyou and being kind to you, your
natural reaction is to want todo for that person versus if you
(16:05):
have someone in your life that'sconstantly putting you down and
constantly telling you, all theways that you're screwing up,
you're like, screw that person.
I don't want to do that anymore.
Like I'd much rather help theperson that's always willing to
help me and be, have more ofthat reciprocation.
So it's so funny that it.
And when you ask someone thatthey'd be like, yeah, of course,
I'd want to help the nicerperson.
(16:26):
But then when it comes toourselves, for some reason,
there's like a disconnect there.
And we think that it's going tobe the other way versus that.
So how.
Can we develop more of thatkindness with ourselves, I think
that people are starting to say,okay, it is more important for
me to be kind and to let go ofthat meanness and that judgment.
But that's not, that's easiersaid than done, right?
(16:48):
especially when those voiceskeep getting louder.
so how, what are some ways that,you use to help your clients do
those, do that kind of thing?
Christine (16:57):
One, I've already.
given an example of which is thelanguage, right?
When we're saying, but I'm notgood at right.
We say something positive andthen we say, but and then we
give the real truth of whatwe're thinking about ourselves.
But I always I'm always late.
And that's cutting yourself downwhenever we use.
But in a sentence, we're.
obliterating the first part ofthe sentence.
(17:18):
we're turning it on its head.
And we just want to watch howwe're talking about ourselves to
ourselves and to other people.
Are you speaking about yourselfwith respect?
Are you using words of trust?
Are you holding yourself to yourword?
That's another whole categoryof, are you someone who lives?
(17:40):
With integrity or attempts tolive in integrity, where when
you promise something youactually deliver and it's these
small, these are micro momentsin life.
But these are the things thatcause us to feel like we can
trust ourselves.
It's not the big speeches andall that.
That's the big speeches and thebig dramatic moments where you
(18:01):
get literal awards are theculmination of.
These little moments of trustingyourself and following through
and doing the difficult work andproceeding, even when you don't
want to.
And that's accomplishment.
I think it's really not thething that you get or do at the
end.
It's that whole process.
I just saw.
(18:22):
On social media.
Dan Levy, who wrote Schitt'sCreek.
I don't know if you saw.
I love that show.
I'm like, I'm
Angie (18:28):
on season four right now.
So I'm late to the game, but Iwas literally watching that show
last night.
I love that show.
Christine (18:35):
it's a fun coincidence, but one of my
favorite shows of all time,favorite experiences.
And he just got on social mediaand he's, I don't, I haven't
figured him out necessarily,but.
He was just very somber and justwas giving a message to
creatives out there that it'seasy to admire people on social
(18:57):
media or the people, the artistsand creatives that you like
their work.
And you think, wow, it'ssomething magical that's
happened, but he really pointedto the middle part that nobody
sees and the part where you'remaking decisions and you're
doubting and you're struggling.
You're both inspired, but you'realso Weighted down by how
(19:19):
complicated and where's thisgoing and is this particular
thing going to be something forthe world to enjoy?
we're not.
I'm not sure of it, but yetwe're being creative in it.
So when I think there's a littlebit of Dan Levy in all of us, I
hope, that we enjoy thecreativity.
We'll do it even though we'restruggling and we feel like it's
(19:40):
a little icky, but that in theend, you might get every word
out there and cure millions ofpeople from their misery during
the COVID era, which is whenthat show came out because of
your light, because of yourindividual.
Gifts that people should see.
So I think it's like thatkindness, that watching your
(20:01):
language so that you're alwaysnurturing yourself and going for
what you value, right?
Like I told you that I valueaccomplishment, but you don't
have to value accomplishment.
You could value anything else inthe world, right?
Which is, it could be service.
It could be health, right?
It could be joy, right?
(20:22):
It might be your life's missionto create.
Joyful experiences for kids.
Great.
Do that, know that, but then gofull out for it because
procrastination really never gotyou that kind of joy.
It really exacerbates thenegative feelings that might
already exist.
And so let's go the otherdirection and say, what do you
(20:43):
want?
What do you want to experience?
What is healthy for you?
What gives you the feeling thatyou are whole?
W.
H.
O.
L.
E.
What gives you the feeling thatyou're significant and that
you're loved?
these are big questions to ask,in midlife.
Typically, I think when we'redone with formal schooling and
we're, watching the birthdaysrack up and there's a lot.
(21:07):
More that we can produce andthere's a lot more that we can
experience in the process aswell.
It's not all about productivity.
Although I happen to be a bigfan.
Angie (21:18):
Yeah, absolutely.
But, I love that.
And I think that, what you'resaying, definitely.
is in line with what I'm seeingas far as running and the people
that are being attracted intorunning at a later age, a lot of
people think, Oh, running'ssomething for a 20 year olds or
something like I'm too old to,to start running now, but more
(21:38):
and more, we're seeing peoplestart running in their forties,
their fifties, their sixties,and.
Think that, hey, you know what,this is something that maybe
I've always wanted to do and Inever really thought that I
could do it, but now maybe Ican, or now, maybe I went to my
doctor and the doctor told me Ineeded to get healthier and
running seems like the mostsimple way for me to do that.
(21:58):
I could just put some shoes onand head out the door.
And so we are seeing more ofthat migration of the quote
unquote older population that'sstarting to get into running,
which I think is such abeautiful thing.
We just have to approach runninga lot differently and I really
love what you said there that Iwant to highlight, about staying
true to yourself and being inintegrity with Your word and
(22:20):
with what you say you're goingto do right and I think that's
really the way That we can buildthat self trust within ourselves
is when you say you're gonna gofor a run go for a run and it
doesn't have to be the fastestrun It doesn't even have to be
the length of the run that youhave on your plan But do
something right get out the doorget yourself At least, going
(22:42):
through some of the motions,especially at the beginning
because when you start to gothrough the motions, when you
start to do the things that'sgoing to create the momentum and
that's going to create the quoteunquote motivation that a lot of
people need because when youstart to see results, you're
going to be more motivated tocontinue.
You're going to want to continuewith that momentum.
so I love all of that.
(23:03):
I want to shift now.
because did you have somethingto say on that?
Okay.
Christine (23:07):
I, first of all, I want to say that's fantastic
that you're noticing a shifttowards older.
Beginner runners.
I love that.
And also, I had something elseto say, but somebody's running
the microwave in the other room,but there you go.
the idea.
So what was I thinking?
(23:28):
I might have lost the, Iapologize for that distraction.
But I think there's somethingabout fear and not what I was
thinking about was not lookingat the fear and giving yourself
the experience of a new view,but also training your brain.
This is the thought.
It did come back to me that yourbrain, if.
(23:50):
If we leave it alone, it's goingto pay attention to the fear and
when you start to direct yourbrain's attention to what you're
interested in, to what youdesire, you're going to heal
that fear.
So it's not just a process ofproductivity or becoming a
runner.
Brand new at 50.
It is healing your whole systemof processing stress is going to
(24:17):
improve because you're, you'vestarted running because you've
taken the initiative, you'vetrained your brain.
Oh, you know what?
I'm happy when I, and the brainrecords that the brain then
knows, oh, she likes doing thismore than.
Sitting in bed fretting about X,Y, and Z that she has no control
over.
Because the brain will give youthat X, Y, and Z worry.
(24:37):
If you allow it.
And so this really is,everything feeds into everything
else, but you are the agent ofcontrol.
You have control over thissystem.
And that is what I wanted toshare,
Angie (24:49):
Yeah.
And that's such a beautifulthing.
And it's so true.
And we all have that choice.
And so what I'm hearing you sayis we can rewire.
some of those neural pathways.
We can start to rewire our brainaway from that fear that's
holding us back, that's keepingus stuck in procrastination and
moving us more toward the lifethat we want to live.
Yes.
Perfect.
(25:09):
I love that.
So I want to shift nowspecifically to talk more about
women in midlife because I knowthis is a population that you
work with.
This is a population that I'vedefinitely started to work a lot
more with.
And so both of us share this.
Passion for helping women inmidlife during this time, and I
would love to hear yourperspective on, how, as a woman
(25:33):
in midlife, how does thischange?
Like when we start to get intomidlife, and maybe, the first
half of our life, we're like,okay, we're productive, and
we're moving up the corporateladder, and we're running, and
I've got marathons under mybelt, and everything is going
well, and we're doing great, andthen all of a sudden, we get to,
Midlife right where we start tohit perimenopause our hormones
start to shift We maybe we gothrough menopause and we're
(25:55):
noticing that our body is notthe same I talk a lot about
physiologically what's happeningin the body But I know you talk
a lot to your clients and helpthem with stress and
decluttering and energy What'sgoing on here?
what is happening in midlifethat so many women are finding,
their energy levels are justtanking, when it comes to this
(26:16):
whole area of stress andproductivity?
Christine (26:18):
one thought.
Thanks for the questions.
And it's a big, it's a bigtopic, right?
A big collection of topics.
One thing that I have thought isthat there, there is no positive
reinforcement system for womenin midlife.
So that may not be what I, whatyou're expecting to hear from
me.
That's
Angie (26:39):
okay.
Let's get into
Christine (26:40):
it.
I love it.
Tell me more.
you go through, let's say youdid do corporate ladder stuff,
there was a ladder that you gotrewards every time you climbed,
presumably, and the same withformal schooling and the same
for maybe birthing children andthe same for purchasing a home
or your first place or yourfirst something.
(27:00):
There was that reward, a cheapbuilding, trying, you go
through, let's say you did docorporate ladder stuff, there
was a ladder that you gotrewards every time you climbed,
presumably, and the same forpurchasing a home or your
Achieving then the feedback andthen you feel like I'm at a
safer, maybe more fun, maybemore stable, whatever you read
into it space.
And then that reinforcementstuff kind of disappears where
all of a sudden, in quotes, allof a sudden, because it took
(27:22):
maybe a decade to build.
To that spot where you're notthinking about purchasing stuff
so much anymore or birthingchildren or changing careers or
adding another degree.
And then all of a sudden you areresponsible for all of these
worlds that you had a hand increating, which is your career,
(27:42):
your family, your home, yourfuture life, which you are
responsible for.
Your aging parents, should yoube lucky enough to have them
unseen and be connected withthem?
And the kids changing needs andyour own changing needs.
(28:03):
And I think that is somethingthat is Oftentimes forgotten
overlooked.
There's no time to pay attentionto yourself.
Then we have a crisis of peoplenot paying attention to their
wellbeing.
And I think that is oftentimes amidlife issue where you're
getting that.
And then you're I have a kindof.
bum right shoulder, I would say.
(28:25):
And some of it is a little bitfrom overwork and actually a
little bit being too much of adesk jockey.
But when I told a friend of mineabout it, she said, Oh, you have
50 shoulder.
And I said, what's 50 shoulder.
And apparently this is Japaneseterm, 50 shoulder that your
hormones are changing and you'regoing to be more likely to
experience a certain type ofpain in the shoulder,
(28:46):
apparently.
And, you've heard of thatbefore?
Yes.
Angie (28:49):
Frozen shoulder is actually much more common in
women, around, before and aftermenopause.
Christine (28:54):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And boy, if you've ever hadfrozen shoulder, it's, it is a
big deal, right?
It is a, it's a game stopper.
Yeah.
It affects
Angie (29:04):
everything.
Yeah.
Christine (29:05):
Yeah.
I've had it once and I do notrecommend it to anyone.
But, so I think it's kind oftime to return to positive
reinforcement where you'resaying I'm going for the good
choices, for the good feelings,for the feelings like I am
really taking care of myself atthe deepest level, no excuses,
(29:29):
because excuses lead to physicalbreakdown.
Stress attacks, panic, anxiety,not being able to sleep just
when you need a lot of it, orenough of it, good quality
sleep, right?
This is so interesting.
Little tools like my beautifulaura ring that helps me keep
(29:49):
track of these basic things thatI need to keep track of so sorry
I interrupted.
Angie (29:53):
No, I interrupted you.
I apologize But this is sointeresting because what you're
talking about right now justreminded me of a concept called
the arrival fallacy Which I'mnot sure if you're familiar with
but essentially it's this idea.
Basically what you're saying isYou know, for our whole life,
we've been working right aswomen.
We've been working towardssomething.
We've been working towards afamily, towards a home, towards
(30:16):
a career, and then all of asudden when we get to midlife,
we have it.
We've arrived.
And so there's this fallacy thatpeople think that oh, when I get
there, it will be better than itis here.
But then you get there and yourealize it's no better.
It's just, it's different.
And so what I'm hearing you sayis that we've been working our
whole lives and now we get tomidlife and we have the things.
(30:39):
And now we don't know what to dowith ourselves,
Christine (30:43):
or there's too much to do for ourselves or with
ourselves or through our energy.
And so energy is actually whatwe need to also come back to and
talk about with big letters, bighighlights, because we, it's
only a few years that I've beeneducated that we are actually
(31:03):
all energy.
We're all right.
Balls of energy, the energy thatwe possess extends beyond our
physical body.
So we're emitting energy thatother people can connect to and
sense and sometimes maybe evensee.
And when we are experiencinglots of energy leaks, and that
(31:24):
might be overperforming, overcommitting, over promising,
those kinds of things that womenin midlife are.
Doing oftentimes, then we needsome sort of replenishment.
We need some sort of right.
Let's turn off that valvebecause there's too much energy
leaking out that way.
And we need a process of tendingto that.
(31:47):
So we are not completelydepleted and thinking it's us.
It's a problem with us becauseit's not a problem with you.
There was never a problem withyou.
there might be some issues withmindset that temporarily are.
and I think that's a reallyimportant thing to think about
(32:10):
when you're thinking about,Beyond midlife by a couple
decades, and I want to be likethem, I'm very happy to be
working with them.
And I feel wow, I hope I'm likethem 30 years from now, so it's
just we need to invest inourselves and on all the levels
there.
There's nothing that you shouldbe.
(32:33):
Shying away from I would saythat's where I've come after a
few years of doing this withMidlife Women's is really saying
there's nothing too small, if ithelps you, right?
There's nothing too big, if ithelps you, because what you're
given, you're just going to giveright out in a beautiful way,
right?
Whenever we make a change, thereis a ripple effect.
(32:53):
Angie knows that I know thatAngie and I met many years ago,
I think Not like decades ago,but a while ago and like that
one meeting, we've beenconnected since then.
And, and I'm so glad.
And it's just think about theimpact that you're having when
you are well, when you're ableto give of yourself, when you're
(33:14):
able to run those runs, whenyou're able to see, Oh, you know
what?
I have that thought.
Let me act on it.
And it's not so complicated andit doesn't drain your shoulder
or your body or your mind orYour sense of resilience that
we're actually really buildingthis resilience and saying, you
know what?
Yeah, things are different inmidlife.
But yeah, so am I
Angie (33:33):
right?
And it's okay.
Absolutely.
That's such a beautiful thing.
And I think that, so much ofwhat you're saying, I totally
resonate with both for myselfpersonally, and also what I see
in my clients.
And this whole idea of likeenergy leakage is definitely I
think what's so many of us aresuffering from, right?
(33:53):
We have these ideas and youmentioned that mindset's a piece
of it.
I think it's a huge piece of itbecause we are told that we need
to be doing all of these things,right?
Like we have to be the bestmother.
We have to be the best careerperson.
We have to be the bestentrepreneur.
We have to be the best daughter.
We have to be like, and so ourenergy is going in all of these
different directions and Ifwe're not putting more energy
(34:17):
into our bucket, like I'm likevisualizing a bucket right now
that has like holes all over.
If we're not putting more energyinto our bucket, so there's like
a couple of ways that we have tolook at it, right?
We have to be able to put moreenergy in by doing the things
that are going to fill us up,taking care of ourselves
physically, mentally,emotionally, psychologically
doing those things that are.
(34:37):
Going to really, light us up andgive us energy and give us
purpose.
And also we have to startplugging some of those holes,
right?
And really being aware of whowe're giving our energy to, how
we're spending this energy,because it's not infinite.
And all of us, I think inmidlife start to realize that
even more.
Like we don't have, like we'renot the energizer bunnies that
(34:59):
maybe we used to be when we were22.
but.
I think that's so importantthat, all of the, there's a lot
of things that we're dealingwith and.
Just being more intentional withwhat we say yes to what we say
no to and how we're taking careof ourselves Can make a huge
difference in how we feel andhow much energy we have for our
life
Christine (35:18):
Absolutely, and you make me laugh with the 22
because do you remember how muchenergy?
My gosh, I know how much spiritwe had at 22.
It's amazing.
Oh,
Angie (35:28):
you could do anything And like you could just come right
back the next day and do it allagain, like It's so funny.
but yeah, so I love all of this,Christine.
Thank you so much.
I know that you've got achallenge coming up, and I want
our listeners to be able toconnect with you, because you've
got a cool challenge coming upcalled re energize your home,
right?
Which is all about decluttering.
Now.
(35:48):
Tell us just a little bit.
I want to hear all about thechallenge, but why decluttering?
why are we focused on focusingon decluttering?
And, why is it problematic whenthere's just clutter all around
us when it comes to energy andall of that?
Christine (36:01):
I think I have a feeling that everyone who's
listening to us already knows.
That's true.
Because I thought to myself theother day.
There's no such thing as goodclutter, right?
There's not, we don't talk aboutclutter as a positive event or
occurrence and clutter.
Therefore, and the research hasshown is a block to our focus
(36:22):
and a block oftentimes to ourwellbeing or feeling of
wellness.
And as women who are oftentimesmanagers of the home as well and
people who just prefer to lovetheir spaces, I think clutter
can be really.
a constant block to that greatergratitude, positive energy, that
(36:42):
feeling of I can get to thestarting line, it can literally
be a literal block and I justthink, plug those holes in that
leaky bucket.
Let's get to the clutter.
This was not my original ideabecause clutter is something
that I tend to avoid myself aswell.
But my clients came to me withthe concept of maybe we can get
some material about how tohandle our clutter and when you,
(37:05):
I think.
It's like with exercise, there'sno such thing as like a, I think
a downside to starting exercisethe same with decluttering when
you start and when you get somestuff, even five items out of
your space,
Angie (37:19):
you're
Christine (37:20):
going to feel like it's a plus.
Angie (37:22):
I so agree.
I love throwing things away now,which is so funny because when I
was growing up, I was like, Iwasn't definitely not a hoarder,
but I loved keeping things.
I liked keeping the knickknacksand the ticket stubs and the
notes from my friends and I hadboxes of all this stuff and now,
I'm like, oh.
It makes me so happy to just getrid of stuff.
It's just, it's so cleansing, Idid a whole, the day after
(37:44):
Christmas, I went through andjust, purged a whole bunch of
things, and it's just, it's sorefreshing, it fills my bucket
so much, so I totally agree, andI think that most people would
probably feel that way, but it'svery hard sometimes to let go of
certain things, and I thinkthat's probably what you're
gonna, Help us with in thechallenge.
I
Christine (38:02):
hope and the fact that there are hundreds upon
hundreds of women who will joinus and a few men makes it even
more fun and more Simple andquick and so you will see the
transformations in the group.
We do before and after photos,which are
Angie (38:15):
fun Oh, that's super fun.
Okay, cool So when is yourchallenge tell us a little bit
more about it?
And then of course, we'll putall of the information in the
show notes for everybody.
So if you guys want to join,christine's challenge you will
be able to there's the Therewill be a link in the show
notes.
I'll be sending it out via emailas well so that you can get
signed up for this challenge.
But when do we start?
Christine (38:35):
Okay.
it, again, it's calledreenergize your home.
We start pretty soon.
It's coming up Monday, March3rd.
It's inside a Facebook group,but you actually don't need
Facebook.
If you're anti Facebook for somereason, or don't like it, you
can still participate.
And it's, I've made it verysimple for everybody to
participate.
It's 15 minutes a day.
You'll meet lots of people.
(38:56):
It's really fun.
I actually have a link that Ican share now.
It is procrastinationcoach.
com slash Angie, A N G I E.
And you can use that link andyou'll get all the information,
all the details, and you canregister there too.
Angie (39:11):
Oh, that's so fun.
I have my own little like URLnow.
I love it.
There you
Christine (39:16):
go.
Oh,
Angie (39:16):
that's so cool.
All right, you guys.
So I am definitely going to bejoining Dr.
Christine Li's challenge here.
That will be fun.
So join me, to declutter.
Cause why not?
let's make more space in ourhomes to also make more space in
our life and in our.
Mind and in our energy, so thatwe can just feel better.
And I love that so much.
Christina, there, are there anyfinal words that you want to
(39:37):
leave us with?
I think we've talked about somany great things today and I
just thank you so much forcoming on.
Christine (39:43):
Thank you, Angie.
It was an amazing conversation.
You're amazing.
Love the conversation.
And my thought right now is thatanything can be your first step.
It doesn't have to be wellthought out a big deal or a big
lift.
So just pick your starting pointand just run with it.
Just get started.
Angie (40:00):
Yes, just run with it.
I love it.
Pun intended, right?
Exactly.
All right.
Awesome.
Thank you so much for beinghere.
Christine (40:07):
Thank you.
Bye, everyone.
Why do we procrastinate on the things that we want, and
(00:03):
how can we start taking actionto achieve those things?
If that's something you've everthought about, today's episode
is perfect for you.
Today I'm welcoming Dr.
Christine Li to the podcast, whois a clinical psychologist and
procrastination coach with over25 years of experience.
I had a great conversation withDr.
Christine Li, and we reallytalked about all the things that
(00:25):
are getting in our way, themyths of motivation, why we
procrastinate, and then reallythe key to overcome
procrastination and.
start taking action towards thethings that we want because
Christine is an expert.
She works with womenspecifically in midlife to help
clear their mental and physicalclutter to reclaim their energy,
confidence, and joy.
(00:45):
And so today we talk about somany things that you can apply
to all different areas of yourlife, especially your running.
And we also, talk about the newupcoming decluttering challenge
that Dr.
Christine Li is running.
So I want to invite you to joinme in that challenge.
It.
It launches next week, the firstweek of March of 2025.
If you want to join me and signup for Dr.
(01:06):
Christine Li's declutteringchallenge, you can head over to
procrastinationcoach.
com forward slash Angie to signup for her five day decluttering
challenge.
So let's jump to today's episodewhere we can talk to Dr.
Christine Li.
(01:45):
All right, everyone, I'm soexcited to bring Dr.
Christine Li here on the podcasttoday.
Welcome, Christine.
I'm so glad you're here.
Christine (01:52):
Thank you, Dr.
Angie Brown.
So good to be here.
So good to see you again.
Angie (01:57):
Yes, definitely.
So Christine, for those of ourlisteners that don't know you
yet, please introduce yourself.
Tell us who are you?
What do you do?
And who do you help?
Christine (02:07):
Hi, everyone, and thanks for being here.
I am a psychologist by training.
I live in New York.
I've been a psychologist forabout 25 years, and I've been
online for about half of thattime, promoting myself and my
work as procrastination coach.
It is a domain name that I foundway back.
(02:30):
Then and I just knew I had tosnap that name up and it's been
a pleasure to have thisparticular mission of helping
people to avoid the sufferingand the drama and the
Unnecessariness ofProcrastinating all the time.
I really work with people whoare Chronically stuck I would
(02:53):
say and really have a lot of Tolearn when it comes to
productivity strategies, mindsetstrategies, energy management
strategies.
And I've worked with so manydifferent types of people and
I've heard so many differentstories and I've done so much of
the procrastinating myself thatthis right now that I'm on the
(03:13):
other side of that bridge, Ifeel like this is just a pure.
Pleasure for me?"To get themessage out, get people on their
feet, get people moving again,and to keep learning about
myself in the process.
So I thank Angie for welcomingme on the show so we can talk
about this stuff.
Angie (03:30):
Yes, absolutely.
And it's so true.
I it's procrastination, I thinkis something that.
Every person suffers from insome way at some point in time,
even if you don't necessarilyconsider yourself a
procrastinator, which, maybe wecan get into, putting that label
on ourselves because I like totalk a lot about identity and
the way that we view ourselves,and how much of an effect that
(03:52):
has on our actions and how weshow up in the world.
But even if you don't consideryourself a press procrastinator
per se, there's definitely timesthat we've all procrastinated on
something.
So can we just talk aboutprocrastination first?
let's just jump in.
what is procrastination?
it's obviously, it's, puttingthings off that we want to do,
but why do we do it?
why do we procrastinate on thethings that we want?
Christine (04:14):
I used to have one answer to that question, and
that answer was fear.
And that makes sense, right?
We're just afraid, even if weknow we're talented enough, or
we've already prepared enough,or we have the time and space
enough, we might just still havethis little, it might even be
teeny tiny fear, but.
A small amount of fear is enoughto hold back a lot of people and
(04:37):
then I did a few more years ofwork with clients and thinking
about this stuff all the time.
I'm really just someone whothinks about this stuff nonstop
and I came to the realizationthat fear is a little more.
To this closer to the surfaceand that the stuff that is
really holding us back is selfdoubt.
(04:57):
And that's something that Ithink is even deeper than fear
because you can have a fear ofother people judging you.
You can have a fear of failure.
You have so many different.
It's like the spice cabinet,right?
That there's a different fearfor a different circumstance,
but underlying that the cabinetthat's holding everything
together is that how you feelabout yourself.
And do you trust yourself and doyou trust.
(05:19):
Yeah.
Trust yourself to get youthrough the next situation.
Do you trust yourself thatyou're going to hold steady that
you're going to be thoughtfulthat you're going to have the
right answers?
And that's a whole game that weplay, I think.
And it's something that we'reconstantly negotiating with
sometimes.
And I believe that the more youbuild that core.
(05:41):
Self-trust up so that you'retesting it, you are meeting
challenges, you are takingrisks, you are doing things that
you think are maybe slightlyinsane, but really enjoying Like
I'm thinking about you runners.
I'm not a runner myself, butthinking about people, I read
about you guys on social mediaand the things that you're doing
right, running in the.
(06:03):
Wilderness running certaindistances that are double what
you even thought was everpossible.
This is, just a part and parcelof developing your self trust.
Angie (06:16):
That's so interesting that you say that because I
think that makes a lot of sensenow, right?
Because there's a lot ofrunners.
That come to work with us that,they know that they want to do
something like say they want totrain for a marathon or a half
marathon, or maybe they've justbeen like falling off the
running wagon and they want toget back on.
They know that running is goodfor them.
They know that it's somethingthat they want to do, but for
(06:39):
some reason there's somethingthat just keeps getting in the
way.
And so you're saying thatreally.
The root of all of that is thisself doubt.
And I think that is sointeresting because when I try,
when I coach and I work withthese people, a lot of that is
what comes out, it's that they,they doubt their ability to
follow through with it.
So I think, so is it, somewherein the back of their mind,
(07:01):
probably subconsciously, is itthe question of, why should I
even start if I'm not going tofollow through?
Christine (07:08):
yeah, that could, that's certainly one angle.
Absolutely.
What are some other angles youthink?
I think fear really just withoutgetting into the mood disorder
area, it depresses our energylevel.
It just sinks us that much,maybe a step lower.
Whenever we go a step lower withour mood slash mindset, I
(07:32):
believe we're going to be alittle less inclined to get to
the starting.
And that we actually need asense of wellness, a sense of
trust that everything is goingto be okay.
A sense that we have enoughenergy inside of us to get to
the finish line.
Like you're saying to do all thepreparation, to make it
worthwhile.
And we're so busy oftentimesmassaging all the fears, all the
(07:57):
different, But our kids have athing and the, I need.
To make dinner and all thethings of daily life can be
clutter enough to prevent youfrom thinking, what about that
feeling that I get when Isuccessfully meet these big
goals?
And we, they tend to feel so faroff.
So not us so unattainable andmaybe not as valuable as they
(08:21):
really are.
So we're really.
Letting our fear take over ourcreative expansive of the part
of us that really enjoys.
accomplishment is one of my highvalues.
Apparently, and I really thinkgo get the thing that you want
to build with your life, right?
If it's running, let it berunning, right?
(08:42):
If it's cooking, let it be that,but always have your nose
pointed towards.
That direction instead of thefear direction, because the fear
is always going to end updampening your mood, dampening
your spirit, dampening yourability to just say, okay, let's
start.
Let's take the first couple ofsteps.
Angie (09:00):
Yeah.
So how do you think we can Tryto find that fear because if you
ask people directly, why are youputting this off a lot of times?
They're not like they don'tanswer.
it's because of the fear.
It's because I'm afraid it'sbecause of this like sometimes
They're not even aware of thatand a lot of times when I talk
to people and I ask, you knowWhat's getting in your way a lot
(09:21):
of them say motivation I justneed more motivation.
What do you have to say aboutmotivation?
do you think we need motivation?
Do you think people lie tothemselves?
Is there a myth surroundingmotivation?
What is your take on that?
Christine (09:34):
I, motivation is not one of my chosen favorite words,
because I think it's really, itcan be a little bit judgmental
when you think about it, right?
oh, the super motivated people,they've got everything that kind
of thing when really all of ushave motivation.
We're all motivated for things.
It's just when we're not payingattention to how important that
(09:57):
motivation is for us that we'refeeling like we don't have
enough to do things.
Okay, so when I.
Work with people.
I always start with the end andsay, that's question number one.
I say, what are you hoping for?
What is your wish?
What is your desire?
What have you been trying tobuild?
And everybody will come up withsomething, even if they haven't
(10:18):
done step 1 to do it, they knowwhat their vision is.
And then the 2nd question I ask.
Is what has been holding youback and it, like you said, it
might not be a straight up fearor they might not realize that,
but they also know what isholding them back.
And then my 3rd question is,what do you think is preventing
(10:39):
you from dealing with that?
Level that prevents you, right?
And that's where you're gettinginto really a whole
conversation.
Each person is so different thatI could not predict.
I could guess, but I could neverreally know what a person is
going through until I'm in aconversation with them about
these 3 questions.
Because we all know thesethings.
(11:01):
I always say.
We know when we'reprocrastinating, we may not want
to do it, but we all know whenwe're doing it.
There's no lie to yourself whenit really comes down to it, but
yet we still will.
The thing that makes it evenmore complicated is when we
start yelling at ourselves andbeing mean to ourselves because
we are hesitating or becausewe're afraid or because we worry
(11:24):
that we don't have enoughmotivation, stamina, energy,
time and space to do it.
That's, I think, I feel likethat's my.
Super specialty is beingteaching people to be really
kind to this themselves, nomatter where they are on the
achievement spectrum, right?
Whether you've been stagnant for4 years or 10 or 20, it doesn't
(11:45):
matter to me.
What matters to me is that Ihelp you see yourself in a
kinder light and that you seethe parts of yourself that are
really itching to get going thatreally know in your heart of
hearts that you have enough todo that.
5k, 10k run that you really haveit and all of these parts are in
(12:08):
us at the same time, sometimesthey're directly battling with
each other, I would say mosttimes that they're not, but I
think because they're all there,you can access a new part of
your identity at any.
Point it helps to have coachingand helps to have support.
It helps to feel safe and ithelps to be well rested well fed
(12:29):
and Exercised right keepingyourself in peak health really
helps But we have to understandthat all of us like you said
Procrastinates sometimes all ofus feel self doubting at times,
maybe a lot.
And I think the first layer thatneeds to just be tossed out the
window is that judgment layer.
(12:50):
because I think you'll find alot of your missing motivation
underneath that heavy, I'm notgood enough.
I'm never going to be worthy.
Yeah.
I need to.
Run to prove my worthiness.
I don't I'm sure you're dealingwith some of that stuff.
Angie (13:05):
There
Christine (13:05):
are people.
Yes.
Angie (13:06):
Yeah So why is that so important?
Like why is kindness soimportant?
like I love what you say thereabout being kind to yourself and
removing that huge blanket ofjudgment that so many of us have
because I think that there aresome people out there that think
that they need to be mean tothemselves in order to Get into
action, right?
(13:26):
if I'm nice to myself, if I'mkind to myself, then I'll just
stay right here.
I won't do anything, but if Iyell at myself and I mean to
myself, then that will spur meinto actions.
And you're saying it is not thatway at all.
So can you go a little bitdeeper on that?
Like, why is kindness moreeffective than judgment?
Christine (13:43):
I want to say my gut reaction is that I want to tell
you my own life story, which islike yelling at yourself.
It's not that complicated.
Yourself nonstop really is a badstrategy.
It really does.
We don't have to go so manylevels deeper because when you
think about it, if I offered youAngie, you and I don't know each
(14:05):
other.
We meet at a.
CVS, where some grocery storeand I offer you a handful of
praise, compliments and lovelywords or a basket of me yelling
at you and telling you that youdidn't do enough and that you
were wrong to even think thatyou could do it.
(14:26):
Which one are you going tochoose?
Angie (14:29):
it's definitely the first one.
Christine (14:30):
obvious answer.
And yet, what do we spend all ofour private, oftentimes private
moments when we're feelingstressed or we're feeling worn
out, those voices tend to be theones that surface, I think it's
the ones where we're not.
Really just saying, like we'rebuttoned up and seats in the
chair, ready to pay attention tothe teacher.
We're not like that.
(14:50):
We're like yelling at ourselves.
the training or the coachingthat I like to do with people is
to just catch those momentswhere you're saying, but, and
you're arguing for that meanpart of yourself for that part
that doesn't feel right.
Good enough.
And again, that part lives inall of us.
We're not going to get rid ofthat part because that's part of
(15:11):
us, part of our history, part ofhow we see ourselves, but we're
going to make that other part bethe boss, be the dominant force,
be the one who makes thedecision, be the one who's
driving the car.
And yeah, we're going to pickthe basket of kindness now,
every time we have a choice,just because you've listened to
me and Angie on this call,you're going to think, oh, yeah,
(15:32):
I don't have to yell at myselffor the hundredth time about the
same thing.
I could just think of a newplan.
I can see myself as a new.
person.
It's perfectly fine to do that.
Angie (15:43):
Yeah.
that makes a lot of sensebecause I know that when I have
people in my life, if I have afriend that is, is doing things
for me, it makes me even more,want to do things for that
person as.
As a, not as a payback, but likewhen you have someone that's
helping you and being nice toyou and being kind to you, your
natural reaction is to want todo for that person versus if you
(16:05):
have someone in your life that'sconstantly putting you down and
constantly telling you, all theways that you're screwing up,
you're like, screw that person.
I don't want to do that anymore.
Like I'd much rather help theperson that's always willing to
help me and be, have more ofthat reciprocation.
So it's so funny that it.
And when you ask someone thatthey'd be like, yeah, of course,
I'd want to help the nicerperson.
(16:26):
But then when it comes toourselves, for some reason,
there's like a disconnect there.
And we think that it's going tobe the other way versus that.
So how.
Can we develop more of thatkindness with ourselves, I think
that people are starting to say,okay, it is more important for
me to be kind and to let go ofthat meanness and that judgment.
But that's not, that's easiersaid than done, right?
(16:48):
especially when those voiceskeep getting louder.
so how, what are some ways that,you use to help your clients do
those, do that kind of thing?
Christine (16:57):
One, I've already.
given an example of which is thelanguage, right?
When we're saying, but I'm notgood at right.
We say something positive andthen we say, but and then we
give the real truth of whatwe're thinking about ourselves.
But I always I'm always late.
And that's cutting yourself downwhenever we use.
But in a sentence, we're.
obliterating the first part ofthe sentence.
(17:18):
we're turning it on its head.
And we just want to watch howwe're talking about ourselves to
ourselves and to other people.
Are you speaking about yourselfwith respect?
Are you using words of trust?
Are you holding yourself to yourword?
That's another whole categoryof, are you someone who lives?
(17:40):
With integrity or attempts tolive in integrity, where when
you promise something youactually deliver and it's these
small, these are micro momentsin life.
But these are the things thatcause us to feel like we can
trust ourselves.
It's not the big speeches andall that.
That's the big speeches and thebig dramatic moments where you
(18:01):
get literal awards are theculmination of.
These little moments of trustingyourself and following through
and doing the difficult work andproceeding, even when you don't
want to.
And that's accomplishment.
I think it's really not thething that you get or do at the
end.
It's that whole process.
I just saw.
(18:22):
On social media.
Dan Levy, who wrote Schitt'sCreek.
I don't know if you saw.
I love that show.
I'm like, I'm
Angie (18:28):
on season four right now.
So I'm late to the game, but Iwas literally watching that show
last night.
I love that show.
Christine (18:35):
it's a fun coincidence, but one of my
favorite shows of all time,favorite experiences.
And he just got on social mediaand he's, I don't, I haven't
figured him out necessarily,but.
He was just very somber and justwas giving a message to
creatives out there that it'seasy to admire people on social
(18:57):
media or the people, the artistsand creatives that you like
their work.
And you think, wow, it'ssomething magical that's
happened, but he really pointedto the middle part that nobody
sees and the part where you'remaking decisions and you're
doubting and you're struggling.
You're both inspired, but you'realso Weighted down by how
(19:19):
complicated and where's thisgoing and is this particular
thing going to be something forthe world to enjoy?
we're not.
I'm not sure of it, but yetwe're being creative in it.
So when I think there's a littlebit of Dan Levy in all of us, I
hope, that we enjoy thecreativity.
We'll do it even though we'restruggling and we feel like it's
(19:40):
a little icky, but that in theend, you might get every word
out there and cure millions ofpeople from their misery during
the COVID era, which is whenthat show came out because of
your light, because of yourindividual.
Gifts that people should see.
So I think it's like thatkindness, that watching your
(20:01):
language so that you're alwaysnurturing yourself and going for
what you value, right?
Like I told you that I valueaccomplishment, but you don't
have to value accomplishment.
You could value anything else inthe world, right?
Which is, it could be service.
It could be health, right?
It could be joy, right?
(20:22):
It might be your life's missionto create.
Joyful experiences for kids.
Great.
Do that, know that, but then gofull out for it because
procrastination really never gotyou that kind of joy.
It really exacerbates thenegative feelings that might
already exist.
And so let's go the otherdirection and say, what do you
(20:43):
want?
What do you want to experience?
What is healthy for you?
What gives you the feeling thatyou are whole?
W.
H.
O.
L.
E.
What gives you the feeling thatyou're significant and that
you're loved?
these are big questions to ask,in midlife.
Typically, I think when we'redone with formal schooling and
we're, watching the birthdaysrack up and there's a lot.
(21:07):
More that we can produce andthere's a lot more that we can
experience in the process aswell.
It's not all about productivity.
Although I happen to be a bigfan.
Angie (21:18):
Yeah, absolutely.
But, I love that.
And I think that, what you'resaying, definitely.
is in line with what I'm seeingas far as running and the people
that are being attracted intorunning at a later age, a lot of
people think, Oh, running'ssomething for a 20 year olds or
something like I'm too old to,to start running now, but more
(21:38):
and more, we're seeing peoplestart running in their forties,
their fifties, their sixties,and.
Think that, hey, you know what,this is something that maybe
I've always wanted to do and Inever really thought that I
could do it, but now maybe Ican, or now, maybe I went to my
doctor and the doctor told me Ineeded to get healthier and
running seems like the mostsimple way for me to do that.
(21:58):
I could just put some shoes onand head out the door.
And so we are seeing more ofthat migration of the quote
unquote older population that'sstarting to get into running,
which I think is such abeautiful thing.
We just have to approach runninga lot differently and I really
love what you said there that Iwant to highlight, about staying
true to yourself and being inintegrity with Your word and
(22:20):
with what you say you're goingto do right and I think that's
really the way That we can buildthat self trust within ourselves
is when you say you're gonna gofor a run go for a run and it
doesn't have to be the fastestrun It doesn't even have to be
the length of the run that youhave on your plan But do
something right get out the doorget yourself At least, going
(22:42):
through some of the motions,especially at the beginning
because when you start to gothrough the motions, when you
start to do the things that'sgoing to create the momentum and
that's going to create the quoteunquote motivation that a lot of
people need because when youstart to see results, you're
going to be more motivated tocontinue.
You're going to want to continuewith that momentum.
so I love all of that.
(23:03):
I want to shift now.
because did you have somethingto say on that?
Okay.
Christine (23:07):
I, first of all, I want to say that's fantastic
that you're noticing a shifttowards older.
Beginner runners.
I love that.
And also, I had something elseto say, but somebody's running
the microwave in the other room,but there you go.
the idea.
So what was I thinking?
(23:28):
I might have lost the, Iapologize for that distraction.
But I think there's somethingabout fear and not what I was
thinking about was not lookingat the fear and giving yourself
the experience of a new view,but also training your brain.
This is the thought.
It did come back to me that yourbrain, if.
(23:50):
If we leave it alone, it's goingto pay attention to the fear and
when you start to direct yourbrain's attention to what you're
interested in, to what youdesire, you're going to heal
that fear.
So it's not just a process ofproductivity or becoming a
runner.
Brand new at 50.
It is healing your whole systemof processing stress is going to
(24:17):
improve because you're, you'vestarted running because you've
taken the initiative, you'vetrained your brain.
Oh, you know what?
I'm happy when I, and the brainrecords that the brain then
knows, oh, she likes doing thismore than.
Sitting in bed fretting about X,Y, and Z that she has no control
over.
Because the brain will give youthat X, Y, and Z worry.
(24:37):
If you allow it.
And so this really is,everything feeds into everything
else, but you are the agent ofcontrol.
You have control over thissystem.
And that is what I wanted toshare,
Angie (24:49):
Yeah.
And that's such a beautifulthing.
And it's so true.
And we all have that choice.
And so what I'm hearing you sayis we can rewire.
some of those neural pathways.
We can start to rewire our brainaway from that fear that's
holding us back, that's keepingus stuck in procrastination and
moving us more toward the lifethat we want to live.
Yes.
Perfect.
(25:09):
I love that.
So I want to shift nowspecifically to talk more about
women in midlife because I knowthis is a population that you
work with.
This is a population that I'vedefinitely started to work a lot
more with.
And so both of us share this.
Passion for helping women inmidlife during this time, and I
would love to hear yourperspective on, how, as a woman
(25:33):
in midlife, how does thischange?
Like when we start to get intomidlife, and maybe, the first
half of our life, we're like,okay, we're productive, and
we're moving up the corporateladder, and we're running, and
I've got marathons under mybelt, and everything is going
well, and we're doing great, andthen all of a sudden, we get to,
Midlife right where we start tohit perimenopause our hormones
start to shift We maybe we gothrough menopause and we're
(25:55):
noticing that our body is notthe same I talk a lot about
physiologically what's happeningin the body But I know you talk
a lot to your clients and helpthem with stress and
decluttering and energy What'sgoing on here?
what is happening in midlifethat so many women are finding,
their energy levels are justtanking, when it comes to this
(26:16):
whole area of stress andproductivity?
Christine (26:18):
one thought.
Thanks for the questions.
And it's a big, it's a bigtopic, right?
A big collection of topics.
One thing that I have thought isthat there, there is no positive
reinforcement system for womenin midlife.
So that may not be what I, whatyou're expecting to hear from
me.
That's
Angie (26:39):
okay.
Let's get into
Christine (26:40):
it.
I love it.
Tell me more.
you go through, let's say youdid do corporate ladder stuff,
there was a ladder that you gotrewards every time you climbed,
presumably, and the same withformal schooling and the same
for maybe birthing children andthe same for purchasing a home
or your first place or yourfirst something.
(27:00):
There was that reward, a cheapbuilding, trying, you go
through, let's say you did docorporate ladder stuff, there
was a ladder that you gotrewards every time you climbed,
presumably, and the same forpurchasing a home or your
Achieving then the feedback andthen you feel like I'm at a
safer, maybe more fun, maybemore stable, whatever you read
into it space.
And then that reinforcementstuff kind of disappears where
all of a sudden, in quotes, allof a sudden, because it took
(27:22):
maybe a decade to build.
To that spot where you're notthinking about purchasing stuff
so much anymore or birthingchildren or changing careers or
adding another degree.
And then all of a sudden you areresponsible for all of these
worlds that you had a hand increating, which is your career,
(27:42):
your family, your home, yourfuture life, which you are
responsible for.
Your aging parents, should yoube lucky enough to have them
unseen and be connected withthem?
And the kids changing needs andyour own changing needs.
(28:03):
And I think that is somethingthat is Oftentimes forgotten
overlooked.
There's no time to pay attentionto yourself.
Then we have a crisis of peoplenot paying attention to their
wellbeing.
And I think that is oftentimes amidlife issue where you're
getting that.
And then you're I have a kindof.
bum right shoulder, I would say.
(28:25):
And some of it is a little bitfrom overwork and actually a
little bit being too much of adesk jockey.
But when I told a friend of mineabout it, she said, Oh, you have
50 shoulder.
And I said, what's 50 shoulder.
And apparently this is Japaneseterm, 50 shoulder that your
hormones are changing and you'regoing to be more likely to
experience a certain type ofpain in the shoulder,
(28:46):
apparently.
And, you've heard of thatbefore?
Yes.
Angie (28:49):
Frozen shoulder is actually much more common in
women, around, before and aftermenopause.
Christine (28:54):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And boy, if you've ever hadfrozen shoulder, it's, it is a
big deal, right?
It is a, it's a game stopper.
Yeah.
It affects
Angie (29:04):
everything.
Yeah.
Christine (29:05):
Yeah.
I've had it once and I do notrecommend it to anyone.
But, so I think it's kind oftime to return to positive
reinforcement where you'resaying I'm going for the good
choices, for the good feelings,for the feelings like I am
really taking care of myself atthe deepest level, no excuses,
(29:29):
because excuses lead to physicalbreakdown.
Stress attacks, panic, anxiety,not being able to sleep just
when you need a lot of it, orenough of it, good quality
sleep, right?
This is so interesting.
Little tools like my beautifulaura ring that helps me keep
(29:49):
track of these basic things thatI need to keep track of so sorry
I interrupted.
Angie (29:53):
No, I interrupted you.
I apologize But this is sointeresting because what you're
talking about right now justreminded me of a concept called
the arrival fallacy Which I'mnot sure if you're familiar with
but essentially it's this idea.
Basically what you're saying isYou know, for our whole life,
we've been working right aswomen.
We've been working towardssomething.
We've been working towards afamily, towards a home, towards
(30:16):
a career, and then all of asudden when we get to midlife,
we have it.
We've arrived.
And so there's this fallacy thatpeople think that oh, when I get
there, it will be better than itis here.
But then you get there and yourealize it's no better.
It's just, it's different.
And so what I'm hearing you sayis that we've been working our
whole lives and now we get tomidlife and we have the things.
(30:39):
And now we don't know what to dowith ourselves,
Christine (30:43):
or there's too much to do for ourselves or with
ourselves or through our energy.
And so energy is actually whatwe need to also come back to and
talk about with big letters, bighighlights, because we, it's
only a few years that I've beeneducated that we are actually
(31:03):
all energy.
We're all right.
Balls of energy, the energy thatwe possess extends beyond our
physical body.
So we're emitting energy thatother people can connect to and
sense and sometimes maybe evensee.
And when we are experiencinglots of energy leaks, and that
(31:24):
might be overperforming, overcommitting, over promising,
those kinds of things that womenin midlife are.
Doing oftentimes, then we needsome sort of replenishment.
We need some sort of right.
Let's turn off that valvebecause there's too much energy
leaking out that way.
And we need a process of tendingto that.
(31:47):
So we are not completelydepleted and thinking it's us.
It's a problem with us becauseit's not a problem with you.
There was never a problem withyou.
there might be some issues withmindset that temporarily are.
and I think that's a reallyimportant thing to think about
(32:10):
when you're thinking about,Beyond midlife by a couple
decades, and I want to be likethem, I'm very happy to be
working with them.
And I feel wow, I hope I'm likethem 30 years from now, so it's
just we need to invest inourselves and on all the levels
there.
There's nothing that you shouldbe.
(32:33):
Shying away from I would saythat's where I've come after a
few years of doing this withMidlife Women's is really saying
there's nothing too small, if ithelps you, right?
There's nothing too big, if ithelps you, because what you're
given, you're just going to giveright out in a beautiful way,
right?
Whenever we make a change, thereis a ripple effect.
(32:53):
Angie knows that I know thatAngie and I met many years ago,
I think Not like decades ago,but a while ago and like that
one meeting, we've beenconnected since then.
And, and I'm so glad.
And it's just think about theimpact that you're having when
you are well, when you're ableto give of yourself, when you're
(33:14):
able to run those runs, whenyou're able to see, Oh, you know
what?
I have that thought.
Let me act on it.
And it's not so complicated andit doesn't drain your shoulder
or your body or your mind orYour sense of resilience that
we're actually really buildingthis resilience and saying, you
know what?
Yeah, things are different inmidlife.
But yeah, so am I
Angie (33:33):
right?
And it's okay.
Absolutely.
That's such a beautiful thing.
And I think that, so much ofwhat you're saying, I totally
resonate with both for myselfpersonally, and also what I see
in my clients.
And this whole idea of likeenergy leakage is definitely I
think what's so many of us aresuffering from, right?
(33:53):
We have these ideas and youmentioned that mindset's a piece
of it.
I think it's a huge piece of itbecause we are told that we need
to be doing all of these things,right?
Like we have to be the bestmother.
We have to be the best careerperson.
We have to be the bestentrepreneur.
We have to be the best daughter.
We have to be like, and so ourenergy is going in all of these
different directions and Ifwe're not putting more energy
(34:17):
into our bucket, like I'm likevisualizing a bucket right now
that has like holes all over.
If we're not putting more energyinto our bucket, so there's like
a couple of ways that we have tolook at it, right?
We have to be able to put moreenergy in by doing the things
that are going to fill us up,taking care of ourselves
physically, mentally,emotionally, psychologically
doing those things that are.
(34:37):
Going to really, light us up andgive us energy and give us
purpose.
And also we have to startplugging some of those holes,
right?
And really being aware of whowe're giving our energy to, how
we're spending this energy,because it's not infinite.
And all of us, I think inmidlife start to realize that
even more.
Like we don't have, like we'renot the energizer bunnies that
(34:59):
maybe we used to be when we were22.
but.
I think that's so importantthat, all of the, there's a lot
of things that we're dealingwith and.
Just being more intentional withwhat we say yes to what we say
no to and how we're taking careof ourselves Can make a huge
difference in how we feel andhow much energy we have for our
life
Christine (35:18):
Absolutely, and you make me laugh with the 22
because do you remember how muchenergy?
My gosh, I know how much spiritwe had at 22.
It's amazing.
Oh,
Angie (35:28):
you could do anything And like you could just come right
back the next day and do it allagain, like It's so funny.
but yeah, so I love all of this,Christine.
Thank you so much.
I know that you've got achallenge coming up, and I want
our listeners to be able toconnect with you, because you've
got a cool challenge coming upcalled re energize your home,
right?
Which is all about decluttering.
Now.
(35:48):
Tell us just a little bit.
I want to hear all about thechallenge, but why decluttering?
why are we focused on focusingon decluttering?
And, why is it problematic whenthere's just clutter all around
us when it comes to energy andall of that?
Christine (36:01):
I think I have a feeling that everyone who's
listening to us already knows.
That's true.
Because I thought to myself theother day.
There's no such thing as goodclutter, right?
There's not, we don't talk aboutclutter as a positive event or
occurrence and clutter.
Therefore, and the research hasshown is a block to our focus
(36:22):
and a block oftentimes to ourwellbeing or feeling of
wellness.
And as women who are oftentimesmanagers of the home as well and
people who just prefer to lovetheir spaces, I think clutter
can be really.
a constant block to that greatergratitude, positive energy, that
(36:42):
feeling of I can get to thestarting line, it can literally
be a literal block and I justthink, plug those holes in that
leaky bucket.
Let's get to the clutter.
This was not my original ideabecause clutter is something
that I tend to avoid myself aswell.
But my clients came to me withthe concept of maybe we can get
some material about how tohandle our clutter and when you,
(37:05):
I think.
It's like with exercise, there'sno such thing as like a, I think
a downside to starting exercisethe same with decluttering when
you start and when you get somestuff, even five items out of
your space,
Angie (37:19):
you're
Christine (37:20):
going to feel like it's a plus.
Angie (37:22):
I so agree.
I love throwing things away now,which is so funny because when I
was growing up, I was like, Iwasn't definitely not a hoarder,
but I loved keeping things.
I liked keeping the knickknacksand the ticket stubs and the
notes from my friends and I hadboxes of all this stuff and now,
I'm like, oh.
It makes me so happy to just getrid of stuff.
It's just, it's so cleansing, Idid a whole, the day after
(37:44):
Christmas, I went through andjust, purged a whole bunch of
things, and it's just, it's sorefreshing, it fills my bucket
so much, so I totally agree, andI think that most people would
probably feel that way, but it'svery hard sometimes to let go of
certain things, and I thinkthat's probably what you're
gonna, Help us with in thechallenge.
I
Christine (38:02):
hope and the fact that there are hundreds upon
hundreds of women who will joinus and a few men makes it even
more fun and more Simple andquick and so you will see the
transformations in the group.
We do before and after photos,which are
Angie (38:15):
fun Oh, that's super fun.
Okay, cool So when is yourchallenge tell us a little bit
more about it?
And then of course, we'll putall of the information in the
show notes for everybody.
So if you guys want to join,christine's challenge you will
be able to there's the Therewill be a link in the show
notes.
I'll be sending it out via emailas well so that you can get
signed up for this challenge.
But when do we start?
Christine (38:35):
Okay.
it, again, it's calledreenergize your home.
We start pretty soon.
It's coming up Monday, March3rd.
It's inside a Facebook group,but you actually don't need
Facebook.
If you're anti Facebook for somereason, or don't like it, you
can still participate.
And it's, I've made it verysimple for everybody to
participate.
It's 15 minutes a day.
You'll meet lots of people.
(38:56):
It's really fun.
I actually have a link that Ican share now.
It is procrastinationcoach.
com slash Angie, A N G I E.
And you can use that link andyou'll get all the information,
all the details, and you canregister there too.
Angie (39:11):
Oh, that's so fun.
I have my own little like URLnow.
I love it.
There you
Christine (39:16):
go.
Oh,
Angie (39:16):
that's so cool.
All right, you guys.
So I am definitely going to bejoining Dr.
Christine Li's challenge here.
That will be fun.
So join me, to declutter.
Cause why not?
let's make more space in ourhomes to also make more space in
our life and in our.
Mind and in our energy, so thatwe can just feel better.
And I love that so much.
Christina, there, are there anyfinal words that you want to
(39:37):
leave us with?
I think we've talked about somany great things today and I
just thank you so much forcoming on.
Christine (39:43):
Thank you, Angie.
It was an amazing conversation.
You're amazing.
Love the conversation.
And my thought right now is thatanything can be your first step.
It doesn't have to be wellthought out a big deal or a big
lift.
So just pick your starting pointand just run with it.
Just get started.
Angie (40:00):
Yes, just run with it.
I love it.
Pun intended, right?
Exactly.
All right.
Awesome.
Thank you so much for beinghere.
Christine (40:07):
Thank you.
Bye, everyone.
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